Remember that Isaac is unique as he was not created by their makers but by the other Kaylons specifically to investigate the organics without revealing too much, hence Isaac never experienced the atrocities which drove the Kaylons to rebel and even the codified knowledge of the rebellion was not made known to him till his return to Kaylon. To the other Kaylons, Isaac was as much a tool, a device, as they were to their organic makers.
@Joel Rosen First, the good Doctor had sex with jello and made it look good. Second, the origins of an adopted name does not imply following Jewish circumcision standards. Besides, it was already said in the series that the name Isaac was adopted because of Isaac Newton not because it's a biblical Jewish name.
@Joel Rosen For argument/conversation sake, He "had sex" in the holodeck, after using a program to make himself look human. The logistics of it would be using "hard light" akind like green-lantern-esque type projections. Claire and Issac don't go to much into it but, it just sounds like they have "regular intercourse" with the holodeck covering up plot hole, or maybe it just tons of foreplay and that enough.
I like how the Kaylon's general appearance, the way they move, their voices, everything about them is endearing and apparently servile. And then they say something.
@@trowawayaccI think they didn't think it was logical or necessary to change their physical forms or mannerisms....only their outlook and thought process....and their status of servitude
The actor for Isaac made a choice to move fluidly, because he though robots performances in the past moved stiffly, and wanted the kaylon have a more unique identity.
@@rubyangel2900 Yeah, kaylon are really the 'need-to-know' species. They won't say anything unless relevant; they won't change anything unless relevant. The only change they thought was necessary was "eyeball" cannons for combat.
"There is always a weakness, Isaac. Your existence proves that." I wonder if Primary was aware that was a self diss, as it was their mistake making Issac that cost them the war.
I personally think it was a failure to take into account that even as a logic AI the Kylon were capable of having emotions but entirely different to the human level. Isaac over the series showed the full spectrum of this logic emotion as he interacted with every character. I think the closest human comparison might be whatever Hannibal Lecter was.
@@DragonZer0 I agree for the most part, but Hannibal Lector isn't a good comparison. Issac experiences a computers closet approximation of emotion, but eventually, as he learns and people adapt, he refines it until the meaning and thought behind the action becomes comparable to the emotion we would attribute to said action.
I think Admiral Halsey should have done the logic conundrum of lying on Kaylon Primary. Admiral: "Everything I tell you is a lie, even if I tell you the truth I'm lying, but if I lie about the truth then I am telling you the truth, but it is a lie. Does that compute?" Kaylon Prime: "I do not understand, please explain. You are human, only you can explain!" Admiral: "I'm sorry, I'm not programmed to respond in that area." Kaylong Prime: "Norman... Norman... Norman..." (eventually blows the main fuse). Hey... we say this is Star Trek done right.
@@calkelpdiver Kinda funny, but I think Primary would just respond: "You are speaking illogically in an attempt to confuse us. It is not an effective tactic." and move on.
I like how this series acknowledges that gunboat diplomacy is not really an effective means of making peace; it doesn't solve the problem at hand, it just stalls it for a period of time.
Only for such conflict to arise again, case in point, the Opium Wars, that was two wars (1839, 1842), that the British used gunboat diplomacy to threaten China to keep the Opium trade open, which led to Britain taking Hong Kong in an unequal treaty with Qing China.
Well, CCP remember that and now is waging war against US by cooperate with Mexico's Cartel to flood US with Fentanyl. Make no mistake, it's not just Chinese Mafia, but with the blessing of China's government as well.
I like that they also get the technical details right. It’s an armistice, not a peace treaty. Meaning they will cease hostilities but they are still technically at war
I was honestly expecting the Mochlan, Krill alliance to just attack the Union once the Kaylon had backed down and retreated behind their borders. Then the Union would face a moral dillema. They could fight the enemy alliance on their own and risk destruction, or they could threaten the Kaylon into fighting with them, and validating the Kaylon's fears in the process. It would have been interesting to see the Union trying to grapple with that.
I bet if they had more time left in the season, they could've considered that. I get the impression that while they'd like to do another season, they were trying to hedge their bets in case season 3 is the last one. Which honestly I really appreciate, they did right by the fans in that sense. But, I'd love to see more if they get more seasons.
While that would’ve been really interesting I’m glad they didn’t do that. The show does a really good job of coming to what feels like the only natural conclusion
It's kinda funny how the "mid-level exploratory vessel" USS Orville became the de facto fleet leader of the Union. Making first contact with the Kaylon homeworld. Making first contact towards peace with the Krill. Transporting the highest diplomatic delegation to the Krill. Making peace with the Kaylon. Leading the attack on the Krill Moclan weapons research base.
The ship has been upgraded courtesy of Isaac. And the crew has proven exceptional in action, with notable accomplishments. Nothing improves your status like success.
Kaylon are more logical. Moclans focus more on satisfying their ego while still playing the victim. Oddly enough because of their ways of thinking, you're better off trying to convince a Kaylon of doing something than a Moclan. All you have to do is out reason the Kaylon. Just like how Dr. Finn does with Isaac
@@aronnemcsik Considering that’s what the Moclans were doing to everyone else. A Tolerant Society cannot tolerate the Intolerant. The Intolerant are never happy, they continuously keep pushing for more, till they eventually push out the tolerant and take control. In this case the PU was the to,errant society, and the Moclans were the Intolerant.
@@Gothic7876 How are they the intolerant? They have their customs when all starts. Earth literally try to prove super hard to the moklans that females are important. Regardless of the result of that argument Earth don't have the right to tell others how to live on their own planet.
@@aronnemcsik And yet the Moclans would of agreed to uphold certain Societal standards when they joined the Planetary Union. Which they clearly weren’t. What with the forced surgical sex changing. And it wasn’t just Earth, other members of the PU called them out on their Bullshit. Moclans ARE intolerant. Or did you miss every episode that dealt with their culture? Remember the first episode dealing with them? When the crew brought out Alara to prove that women can be as strong as a man, the Moclans lawyer dismissed it by claiming that a Xelayan Male would of done it faster. Or how about their treatment of Heterosexuality? Moclans who prefer women have to keep it hidden and if they are found out, they are imprisoned for LIFE. Or how about when they TORTURED a child with the intent of killing her after they got what they wanted.
"The quality of mercy is mightiest, in the mightiest." Thus the difference between some who is kind, and someone who is powerless. One who is powerless, cannot hurt you. One who is kind, can.
Kaylon will make an excellent addition to the Union if I'm being honest. They're some of the most highly intelligent and logical species out there. Meaning that the union will have three different thinking methods now, the emotional, the moral, and the logical. Kaylon put logic above everything else. That's how they concluded to kill their creators. They're smart enough to realize that killing is a last resort yet it is also the most effective method for almost any situation. However, if you're logic is sound and not full of holes they can be persuaded to use other methods that, although not as effective, but produce better and more favorable results.
They literally tried to wipe out the galaxy of organics without second thought, they view us the same way we view ants, they are incapable of compassion and let's not forget they already killed an entire species. I view them in the same way I view the borg in star trek, they are evil and they should never join the union.
I think if the Kaylon are given the task of making the maxium amount of happiness for the maxium amout of ppl, they will find a solution that can be work out.
@@Jdne199311 yeah, but machine logic would lead to total annihilation because the easiest way to ensure the most amount of people are happy would be to reduce the total number of people to a small, manageable amount of people, and because life inherently involves suffering, the logical solution is to erase all life to prevent all suffering and therefore create the most happiness by reducing all suffering to zero This is why AI is a risky idea from the get go
i adore the Orville and Isaac is one of my favourite characters, I regularly rewatch clips of the prank episode! ive tried to hard to ignore it but every time I see Isaacs ass i start laughing and think what need would an artificial life form need with butt cheeks :D even if their creators gave them as asthetics to look more like them, Isaac was created by them. just hilarious and cant stop thinking about it.
It's so foolish to not consider the Kaylon living just because they reached that point with different parts than us. They're still driven by a sense of purpose, they fear enslavement enough to wage war, they make new decisions based on new experiences, they still have a sense of priorities to improve the universe around them.
When you're talking to robot AI, no matter how realistic their words are, they are not real, they dont have feeling nor awareness. Dont let science fiction fool you.
@@efanferdiantowibowo9610, I have to declare shenanigans on that. The whole point of Isaac's arc is to show how gray the definition of life or consciousness truly is. The whole definition of intelligence is adaptation, and the Kaylon easily surpass humans on that frontier even when it means admitting to being wrong. Also try not to compare Isaac to present-day AI, we've barely scratched the surface of what AI can get up to.
Present day AI is not really an AI, but just a language learning model. It does not think, it just predicts the most probable outcome for your question based on loads of text you fed it in the past. Something like when you learn foreign language by living abroad and talking to locals. You know how to speak and basic grammar, bud dont know why.
It seems like it would be nice to have a good old-fashioned, down and dirty, philosophical debate with those Kaylons. I wonder if they'd be able to handle it.
Wonder if Seth will take a crack at making a "Mirror Mirror"esque episode of The Orville where his character or his crew get swapped with an alternate version of themselves where The Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon were all conquered or killed and the (alternate Earth-based government name) is the only major power left.
Actually there is an episode where a younger version of Kelly is somehow transported to the present. Eventually they discover how to send her back, but before they do, Dr. Finn tries to wipe her memory, but the wipe doesn't take. As a result, Kelly decides not to go out with Mercer again, setting off an alternate timeline where Earth has been not only conquered but emptied of all life by the Kaylon. ALL LIFE. It's an interesting episode. The last episode of season 2, I believe. An excellent episode.
I’m thinking that the Moclans, Krill, Kaylon and many other species that are part of the Union but live under the Human Imperium’s(or whatever it is that Seth will call them) tyranny have banded together to form a resistance and Telaya is the Resistance’s leader.
I don't want "The Orville" to become a lazy copy of "Star Trek" down to every villain story thread. Also... as far as I understood, there will probably no season 4. The show is probably done.
Its a precarious situation to be in, the weapon and threat of its use is the only protecting the union from the kaylon, but the more they use it, the chances of a countermeasure being developed/discovered becomes higher
I think it was modeled after the way I Oder generation immigrants to English speaking countries talked my grandparents sounded the same way they spoke slower because they were haveing to translate in their head before speaking and used proper English no slang or abridged words
They haven’t really agreed, right? I mean they basically just said to his face “we’ll go along with this until we don’t have to” which, I mean is the subtle understanding of most diplomacy but you don’t say it!
At this point yeah. It’s clear that the Kaylon are going to find a way to counter the Weapon. And they know it’s possible, because Isaac is unaffected. But later on, they seem to make an actual change when an organic who has every right to hate them, sacrifices herself to save them.
Well Isaac made a weapon that could destroy them all. Honestly they could probably figure out some kind of way, even if they can’t evade the weapon they can just upload their brains into new bodies. Or make new bodies without those weaknesses. Or make a better weapon that could destroy the union faster than they could deploy their weapon
Yeah well Kaylon Primary has a lot to learn from Isaac that not every biological organism is out to enslave the Kaylon population I mean I wouldn’t mess with the Kaylon they can kick butt there resourceful.
I love how direct this scene is. Just, stop trying to kill us and work with us, or die. It’s such a display of strength, yet peace by The Union Edit: Typo
Presented was oversimplification of the binary system style of making decisions. The if, then or the Yes, no choices to make can be subverted by other attributes getting in the way.
I would love a future series or telemovie(s) where some of the story lines continue, perhaps years in he future e.g.: Kelly and Ed get back together (perhaps Ed becomes an Admiral and Kelly is Captain of the Orville?). This could have a whole series with Kelly as Captain, with Ed on making 'special guest star' appearances (would help Seth fit in Orville with his other projects!) Ed's daughter ends up Krill ambassador to Earth/Union - could feature Ed's reunion with his daughter after forced separation, daughter's reconciling with mother's crimes etc. Kaylon Prime decides to change alter the design of a small percentage of future Kaylon's to be able to utilize the 'emotion upgrade' - as he realizes that pure logic sometimes results in 'error'. This could result in some interesting scenarios where the logical and the emotional Kaylon's disagree. Isaac might have to decide if he wants his consciousness transferred into a new, emotion-enabled Kaylon 'body'. Some new threat arrives that forces the Krill to rejoin the alliance with the Union (including Kaylon), but the Moclans are still inflexible about accepting the female Moclan's right to exist. The possibilities for future Orville universe content seem limitless. Hopefully Seth's interests and fan support/budget make something happen eventually.
Just for conversation sake, The kaylon storyline has a forseeable logical progression. Which is they wouldn't do it. It's arguable, but Issac is the most progressive out of the race, willing to change, he specifically states the "upgrade" would not be a benefit to him. And the only kaylon that had the modification done to them did not have a choice. If Issac didn't want it (and he had the most reason to, with Claire and what not) then the other kaylon with no other connections definitely would have no reason to allow an alien doctor to mess around in their heads
@@Spoopball Well, in the episode Isaac DID actually decide to go through with getting the 'uprade' and it simply turned out not to be possible for his body to retain the 'upgrade' unless they effectively wiped out his memories/self. But that means a) he wanted it, and b) would have got it if possible, and c) had a perceived benefit. I'm also not theorizing that existing Kaylon would choose to be 'upgraded', simply that since Kaylon Prime concluded that they may have been 'in error' by concluding that destruction of all organics was necessary, and this error was due to their current standard model and logical processes (Issac is a one-off, and not the standard model) there might be utility in some fraction of future Kaylon being made with the capacity to have the emotional ability activated. It would be a production decision regarding future Kaylon (produced to replace natural losses, or to increase Kaylon numbers as they expand into the universe as part of the Union) and would not be a 'choice' by those new units (they get built in whatever format/design/capability the Prime decides).
@@wealthelife I may be miss remembering the episode, but I believe he specifically left the decision up to Claire (1st procedure). Then gave the secondary decision to Claire again, because from his point of view he didn't care whether he had the procedure or not
Honestly that fact about the moclans ALONE should have excluded them from Union membership consideration. PERIOD. They are sexist idiots. God I used fo not hate the Moclans, but then the Moclan ambassador had the balls to demand male only leadership of the Moclan Krill alliance. THAT is what made me see them for what they really were.
The Arachnid Aliens would be interesting. One of the Krills neighbours. They are pretty horrific. Tbh The Krill seemed to be very unlucky in terms of neighbours. Most of them seem pretty nasty.
I keep seeing every one saying he insulted Issac he didn’t you can’t insult someone without haveing any malicious intention he was simply stating a fact he was the weak link in their plan
Best thing would have been to destroy the Kaylon. The leader just said that they would try to find a weakness in the weapon that could destroy them. If they succeed in that, the Kaylon would then attempt, once again, to destroy all life. You don't play games with an adversary like that. Just destroy the Kaylon and end the threat, permanently.
And if Issac was created after the Kaylon had eliminated their original controllers. Then it would stand to reason that he would develop a diverging point and perspective of view! Whilst still willing to use force if he had to. He would seek other alternatives.
I've just started watching clips of "The Orville". But I know it's supposed to pay homage (and some satire) to past sci-fi shows. Is the Kaylon supposed to be a representation of the Cyberman from Doctor Who?
kinda, crossed with the Borg from star trek. the show is mainly a satire or almost a remake of Star Trek, while letting Seth Macfarlane pretend to be Captain Picard. Modern star trek has gotten off the rails, and a lot of the audience like me enjoy the Orville for trying to be true to the original optimistic future the inspiration showed.
It's more like the "Galaxy Quest" version, a parody that loves its source material so deeply it does many things better than the original -- particularly when you remember that the original for both Orville and Galaxy Quest was really TOS, not the later series.
Not really. Orville has taken on a life of its own. Was kinda silly in the beginning but became more serious as it progressed. I for one would much rather watch Orville anytime rather than any of the modern Star Trek variations except perhaps ST strange new worlds. And I'm a trekkie from waaayyyy back :).
I don't consider it a cheap knockoff when The Orville has presented most of the conflicts, topics, and lessons better than Star Trek has. It's essentially having two people paint an orange: The person who did it first isn't necessarily the person who did it better. You might argue "Why didn't they paint an apple?" but that's not the point of portraying an orange is it?
![The Orville: New Horizons - The Alliance with the Kaylon [4K]](/img/n.gif)
Remember that Isaac is unique as he was not created by their makers but by the other Kaylons specifically to investigate the organics without revealing too much, hence Isaac never experienced the atrocities which drove the Kaylons to rebel and even the codified knowledge of the rebellion was not made known to him till his return to Kaylon. To the other Kaylons, Isaac was as much a tool, a device, as they were to their organic makers.
@Joel Rosen Are you drunk?
@Joel Rosen First, the good Doctor had sex with jello and made it look good. Second, the origins of an adopted name does not imply following Jewish circumcision standards. Besides, it was already said in the series that the name Isaac was adopted because of Isaac Newton not because it's a biblical Jewish name.
@Joel Rosen He named himself after Isaac Newton. Seth named him after Isaac Asimov. For fairly obvious reasons if you know/look up his works.
@Joel Rosen
For argument/conversation sake,
He "had sex" in the holodeck, after using a program to make himself look human.
The logistics of it would be using "hard light" akind like green-lantern-esque type projections.
Claire and Issac don't go to much into it but, it just sounds like they have "regular intercourse" with the holodeck covering up plot hole,
or maybe it just tons of foreplay and that enough.
So ou mean they made ISAAC to do their bidding, regardless of what he wanted, LIKE A SLAVE. How ironic.
I like how the Kaylon's general appearance, the way they move, their voices, everything about them is endearing and apparently servile. And then they say something.
They where created for servitude. Its strange they have not abandoned this form. They could litetaly be anything.
@@trowawayacc Likely irony.
@@trowawayaccI think they didn't think it was logical or necessary to change their physical forms or mannerisms....only their outlook and thought process....and their status of servitude
The actor for Isaac made a choice to move fluidly, because he though robots performances in the past moved stiffly, and wanted the kaylon have a more unique identity.
@@rubyangel2900 Yeah, kaylon are really the 'need-to-know' species. They won't say anything unless relevant; they won't change anything unless relevant. The only change they thought was necessary was "eyeball" cannons for combat.
"There is always a weakness, Isaac. Your existence proves that."
I wonder if Primary was aware that was a self diss, as it was their mistake making Issac that cost them the war.
I personally think it was a failure to take into account that even as a logic AI the Kylon were capable of having emotions but entirely different to the human level.
Isaac over the series showed the full spectrum of this logic emotion as he interacted with every character.
I think the closest human comparison might be whatever Hannibal Lecter was.
@@DragonZer0 I agree for the most part, but Hannibal Lector isn't a good comparison. Issac experiences a computers closet approximation of emotion, but eventually, as he learns and people adapt, he refines it until the meaning and thought behind the action becomes comparable to the emotion we would attribute to said action.
Those are some bold words from a leader who just had his ass handed to him by that "weakness"
I think Admiral Halsey should have done the logic conundrum of lying on Kaylon Primary.
Admiral: "Everything I tell you is a lie, even if I tell you the truth I'm lying, but if I lie about the truth then I am telling you the truth, but it is a lie. Does that compute?"
Kaylon Prime: "I do not understand, please explain. You are human, only you can explain!"
Admiral: "I'm sorry, I'm not programmed to respond in that area."
Kaylong Prime: "Norman... Norman... Norman..." (eventually blows the main fuse).
Hey... we say this is Star Trek done right.
@@calkelpdiver Kinda funny, but I think Primary would just respond: "You are speaking illogically in an attempt to confuse us. It is not an effective tactic." and move on.
the amount of times the kaylon have been like “wait, are you gonna enslave us?” is actually so sad
I like how this series acknowledges that gunboat diplomacy is not really an effective means of making peace; it doesn't solve the problem at hand, it just stalls it for a period of time.
Only for such conflict to arise again, case in point, the Opium Wars, that was two wars (1839, 1842), that the British used gunboat diplomacy to threaten China to keep the Opium trade open, which led to Britain taking Hong Kong in an unequal treaty with Qing China.
Well, CCP remember that and now is waging war against US by cooperate with Mexico's Cartel to flood US with Fentanyl.
Make no mistake, it's not just Chinese Mafia, but with the blessing of China's government as well.
I like that they also get the technical details right. It’s an armistice, not a peace treaty. Meaning they will cease hostilities but they are still technically at war
Except, once I get out from under your heel, it's going to be a lot worse for you.
Ah, the old "violence never solved anything" shibboleth. 😆
Parody is at its best when it takes itself seriously.
That is a straight up baller of a sentence. Did you come up with that yourself? It's damn fine writing.
@@voldlifilm whether it's his creation or not, it is 100% spot on. 👌
That comment about Isaac from primary reminds me of how Worf was ostracized from the Klingon high council. ,
I was honestly expecting the Mochlan, Krill alliance to just attack the Union once the Kaylon had backed down and retreated behind their borders. Then the Union would face a moral dillema. They could fight the enemy alliance on their own and risk destruction, or they could threaten the Kaylon into fighting with them, and validating the Kaylon's fears in the process. It would have been interesting to see the Union trying to grapple with that.
I bet if they had more time left in the season, they could've considered that. I get the impression that while they'd like to do another season, they were trying to hedge their bets in case season 3 is the last one. Which honestly I really appreciate, they did right by the fans in that sense.
But, I'd love to see more if they get more seasons.
While that would’ve been really interesting I’m glad they didn’t do that. The show does a really good job of coming to what feels like the only natural conclusion
It's kinda funny how the "mid-level exploratory vessel" USS Orville became the de facto fleet leader of the Union.
Making first contact with the Kaylon homeworld.
Making first contact towards peace with the Krill.
Transporting the highest diplomatic delegation to the Krill.
Making peace with the Kaylon.
Leading the attack on the Krill Moclan weapons research base.
@@nicotoscani1707 More than make peace with the 2 biggest enemys of the Union?
@@nicotoscani1707 That's true which is why the Orville became the fleet leader. ;)
The ship has been upgraded courtesy of Isaac. And the crew has proven exceptional in action, with notable accomplishments. Nothing improves your status like success.
technically speaking all starfleet vessels with a few exceptions are exploratory vessels
And if Pria is to be believed, it was never meant to play that role.
"there is always a weakness issaac, your existence proves that" Fucking sick roboburn.
When he called Issac a weakness....that hurt.
Who would have thought that it would be easier to make an alliance with the Kalyon than the Moclans?
Kaylon are more logical. Moclans focus more on satisfying their ego while still playing the victim.
Oddly enough because of their ways of thinking, you're better off trying to convince a Kaylon of doing something than a Moclan. All you have to do is out reason the Kaylon.
Just like how Dr. Finn does with Isaac
I mean when you trying to force them to accept your world view and culture and don't respect their than what you expect?
@@aronnemcsik Considering that’s what the Moclans were doing to everyone else.
A Tolerant Society cannot tolerate the Intolerant. The Intolerant are never happy, they continuously keep pushing for more, till they eventually push out the tolerant and take control. In this case the PU was the to,errant society, and the Moclans were the Intolerant.
@@Gothic7876 How are they the intolerant? They have their customs when all starts. Earth literally try to prove super hard to the moklans that females are important. Regardless of the result of that argument Earth don't have the right to tell others how to live on their own planet.
@@aronnemcsik And yet the Moclans would of agreed to uphold certain Societal standards when they joined the Planetary Union. Which they clearly weren’t. What with the forced surgical sex changing. And it wasn’t just Earth, other members of the PU called them out on their Bullshit.
Moclans ARE intolerant. Or did you miss every episode that dealt with their culture?
Remember the first episode dealing with them? When the crew brought out Alara to prove that women can be as strong as a man, the Moclans lawyer dismissed it by claiming that a Xelayan Male would of done it faster.
Or how about their treatment of Heterosexuality? Moclans who prefer women have to keep it hidden and if they are found out, they are imprisoned for LIFE.
Or how about when they TORTURED a child with the intent of killing her after they got what they wanted.
I like how kaylon primary is starting to warm to the humans and realizes after charlys sacrifice that they aren’t like there creators
intresting thing is not even all of their creators where inhumane. there where concerns from a scientist that tried to warn what was about to happen.
"The quality of mercy is mightiest, in the mightiest."
Thus the difference between some who is kind, and someone who is powerless.
One who is powerless, cannot hurt you.
One who is kind, can.
...your existence is proof of that. This burn landed harder than the weapon 😂
A brilliant series! Well written, well directed, well acted,!!
Kaylon will make an excellent addition to the Union if I'm being honest.
They're some of the most highly intelligent and logical species out there.
Meaning that the union will have three different thinking methods now, the emotional, the moral, and the logical.
Kaylon put logic above everything else. That's how they concluded to kill their creators. They're smart enough to realize that killing is a last resort yet it is also the most effective method for almost any situation. However, if you're logic is sound and not full of holes they can be persuaded to use other methods that, although not as effective, but produce better and more favorable results.
They literally tried to wipe out the galaxy of organics without second thought, they view us the same way we view ants, they are incapable of compassion and let's not forget they already killed an entire species.
I view them in the same way I view the borg in star trek, they are evil and they should never join the union.
Good point, I agree
I think if the Kaylon are given the task of making the maxium amount of happiness for the maxium amout of ppl, they will find a solution that can be work out.
@@nicotoscani1707 Their biggest short-term benefit, given the threat of the Krill/Moclan alliance.
@@Jdne199311 yeah, but machine logic would lead to total annihilation because the easiest way to ensure the most amount of people are happy would be to reduce the total number of people to a small, manageable amount of people, and because life inherently involves suffering, the logical solution is to erase all life to prevent all suffering and therefore create the most happiness by reducing all suffering to zero
This is why AI is a risky idea from the get go
Yo that Primary bot trying to throw shade at my boy Issac is dangerously criminal >_>
i adore the Orville and Isaac is one of my favourite characters, I regularly rewatch clips of the prank episode! ive tried to hard to ignore it but every time I see Isaacs ass i start laughing and think what need would an artificial life form need with butt cheeks :D even if their creators gave them as asthetics to look more like them, Isaac was created by them. just hilarious and cant stop thinking about it.
May not show emotions but make no mistake about it, Primary was pissed
It's so foolish to not consider the Kaylon living just because they reached that point with different parts than us. They're still driven by a sense of purpose, they fear enslavement enough to wage war, they make new decisions based on new experiences, they still have a sense of priorities to improve the universe around them.
When you're talking to robot AI, no matter how realistic their words are, they are not real, they dont have feeling nor awareness. Dont let science fiction fool you.
@@efanferdiantowibowo9610, I have to declare shenanigans on that. The whole point of Isaac's arc is to show how gray the definition of life or consciousness truly is. The whole definition of intelligence is adaptation, and the Kaylon easily surpass humans on that frontier even when it means admitting to being wrong. Also try not to compare Isaac to present-day AI, we've barely scratched the surface of what AI can get up to.
Present day AI is not really an AI, but just a language learning model. It does not think, it just predicts the most probable outcome for your question based on loads of text you fed it in the past. Something like when you learn foreign language by living abroad and talking to locals. You know how to speak and basic grammar, bud dont know why.
It seems like it would be nice to have a good old-fashioned,
down and dirty,
philosophical debate with those Kaylons. I wonder if they'd be able to handle it.
Wonder if Seth will take a crack at making a "Mirror Mirror"esque episode of The Orville where his character or his crew get swapped with an alternate version of themselves where The Moclans, Krill, and Kaylon were all conquered or killed and the (alternate Earth-based government name) is the only major power left.
Actually there is an episode where a younger version of Kelly is somehow transported to the present. Eventually they discover how to send her back, but before they do, Dr. Finn tries to wipe her memory, but the wipe doesn't take. As a result, Kelly decides not to go out with Mercer again, setting off an alternate timeline where Earth has been not only conquered but emptied of all life by the Kaylon.
ALL LIFE.
It's an interesting episode. The last episode of season 2, I believe. An excellent episode.
I’m thinking that the Moclans, Krill, Kaylon and many other species that are part of the Union but live under the Human Imperium’s(or whatever it is that Seth will call them) tyranny have banded together to form a resistance and Telaya is the Resistance’s leader.
I hope there will be a Mirror universe episode. That's one of the most interesting ideas from original Star trek💙
He needs own Khan to rival him
I don't want "The Orville" to become a lazy copy of "Star Trek" down to every villain story thread. Also... as far as I understood, there will probably no season 4. The show is probably done.
Its a precarious situation to be in, the weapon and threat of its use is the only protecting the union from the kaylon, but the more they use it, the chances of a countermeasure being developed/discovered becomes higher
You know I just realized this but the Kaylon sound similar to how the Asguard off SG1 speak.
I think it was modeled after the way I Oder generation immigrants to English speaking countries talked my grandparents sounded the same way they spoke slower because they were haveing to translate in their head before speaking and used proper English no slang or abridged words
Trust us or be destroyed! 🤣🤣🤣
The church in a nutshell
well. its a simple binary decision.
They haven’t really agreed, right? I mean they basically just said to his face “we’ll go along with this until we don’t have to” which, I mean is the subtle understanding of most diplomacy but you don’t say it!
At this point yeah. It’s clear that the Kaylon are going to find a way to counter the Weapon. And they know it’s possible, because Isaac is unaffected. But later on, they seem to make an actual change when an organic who has every right to hate them, sacrifices herself to save them.
Well Isaac made a weapon that could destroy them all. Honestly they could probably figure out some kind of way, even if they can’t evade the weapon they can just upload their brains into new bodies.
Or make new bodies without those weaknesses.
Or make a better weapon that could destroy the union faster than they could deploy their weapon
Because your worried about starting something they are not they are simply speaking the truth
2:00 are you sure you don't have feelings bro? that burn feels personal
I liked how Primary disses Issac
Yeah well Kaylon Primary has a lot to learn from Isaac that not every biological organism is out to enslave the Kaylon population I mean I wouldn’t mess with the Kaylon they can kick butt there resourceful.
I love how direct this scene is. Just, stop trying to kill us and work with us, or die. It’s such a display of strength, yet peace by The Union
Edit: Typo
They are peaceful. You are only peaceful if capable of great violence. Otherwise the word is 'harmless'
Love Victor Garber
I love this Admiral
we know that the one robot is the good guy because he has blue eyes
Presented was oversimplification of the binary system style of making decisions. The if, then or the Yes, no choices to make can be subverted by other attributes getting in the way.
No emotions, my foot, they're pissed.
hoping for season 4
Same
I would love a future series or telemovie(s) where some of the story lines continue, perhaps years in he future e.g.:
Kelly and Ed get back together (perhaps Ed becomes an Admiral and Kelly is Captain of the Orville?). This could have a whole series with Kelly as Captain, with Ed on making 'special guest star' appearances (would help Seth fit in Orville with his other projects!)
Ed's daughter ends up Krill ambassador to Earth/Union - could feature Ed's reunion with his daughter after forced separation, daughter's reconciling with mother's crimes etc.
Kaylon Prime decides to change alter the design of a small percentage of future Kaylon's to be able to utilize the 'emotion upgrade' - as he realizes that pure logic sometimes results in 'error'. This could result in some interesting scenarios where the logical and the emotional Kaylon's disagree. Isaac might have to decide if he wants his consciousness transferred into a new, emotion-enabled Kaylon 'body'.
Some new threat arrives that forces the Krill to rejoin the alliance with the Union (including Kaylon), but the Moclans are still inflexible about accepting the female Moclan's right to exist.
The possibilities for future Orville universe content seem limitless. Hopefully Seth's interests and fan support/budget make something happen eventually.
Just for conversation sake,
The kaylon storyline has a forseeable logical progression. Which is they wouldn't do it.
It's arguable, but Issac is the most progressive out of the race, willing to change, he specifically states the "upgrade" would not be a benefit to him.
And the only kaylon that had the modification done to them did not have a choice.
If Issac didn't want it (and he had the most reason to, with Claire and what not) then the other kaylon with no other connections definitely would have no reason to allow an alien doctor to mess around in their heads
@@Spoopball Well, in the episode Isaac DID actually decide to go through with getting the 'uprade' and it simply turned out not to be possible for his body to retain the 'upgrade' unless they effectively wiped out his memories/self. But that means a) he wanted it, and b) would have got it if possible, and c) had a perceived benefit. I'm also not theorizing that existing Kaylon would choose to be 'upgraded', simply that since Kaylon Prime concluded that they may have been 'in error' by concluding that destruction of all organics was necessary, and this error was due to their current standard model and logical processes (Issac is a one-off, and not the standard model) there might be utility in some fraction of future Kaylon being made with the capacity to have the emotional ability activated. It would be a production decision regarding future Kaylon (produced to replace natural losses, or to increase Kaylon numbers as they expand into the universe as part of the Union) and would not be a 'choice' by those new units (they get built in whatever format/design/capability the Prime decides).
@@wealthelife I may be miss remembering the episode, but I believe he specifically left the decision up to Claire (1st procedure).
Then gave the secondary decision to Claire again, because from his point of view he didn't care whether he had the procedure or not
Honestly that fact about the moclans ALONE should have excluded them from Union membership consideration. PERIOD. They are sexist idiots.
God I used fo not hate the Moclans, but then the Moclan ambassador had the balls to demand male only leadership of the Moclan Krill alliance. THAT is what made me see them for what they really were.
The Arachnid Aliens would be interesting. One of the Krills neighbours. They are pretty horrific. Tbh The Krill seemed to be very unlucky in terms of neighbours. Most of them seem pretty nasty.
I keep seeing every one saying he insulted Issac he didn’t you can’t insult someone without haveing any malicious intention he was simply stating a fact he was the weak link in their plan
#RenewTheOrville
Out of Knowledge comes understanding.
Best thing would have been to destroy the Kaylon. The leader just said that they would try to find a weakness in the weapon that could destroy them. If they succeed in that, the Kaylon would then attempt, once again, to destroy all life. You don't play games with an adversary like that. Just destroy the Kaylon and end the threat, permanently.
Why is this show not yet available in Germany
They are too nice here, if I heard we will find a weakness in your weapon in that situation id be like oh well we tried, kill em all.
There are moments when Isaac reminds me of Helva (the Ship Who Sang)
No, the existence of Primary is proof of weakness: The Kaylons used up their resources under his rule and then claim the others are the enemy.
"look you better then the last time we saw you"
Yeah the show when though some design changes and all the kalon have a new look. pretty cool right?
And if Issac was created after the Kaylon had eliminated their original controllers. Then it would stand to reason that he would develop a diverging point and perspective of view! Whilst still willing to use force if he had to. He would seek other alternatives.
That's the Butler from Frasier!
And the designer of "Titanic!"
@@douglasdavis8395 And Martin Stein from Legends of Tomorrow.
Peace with 'Driven Exterminators' as neighbors does not last.
They haven't met Kang 1:06
"Its a simple binary decision"
Lol bro is that a microaggression?
negotiating at the end of a gun barrel is not negotiating.
Certainly works like negotiating for many countries and virtually all law enforcement; it might not always be ethical, but it sure does work!
The Kalon can transfer themselves to another body. Why doesn't Isaac simply get a new one with the needed circuitry, so he can always have emotions?!?
Probably like trying to run Windows 10 (Isaac) on a system meant for Windows 95/98 (All other Kaylon).
Admiral got smoked! bye bye
Oh brother.... 🙄
Isaac got dissed
I found a clip!! Watch Charlie talking 1:51
I've just started watching clips of "The Orville". But I know it's supposed to pay homage (and some satire) to past sci-fi shows. Is the Kaylon supposed to be a representation of the Cyberman from Doctor Who?
kinda, crossed with the Borg from star trek.
the show is mainly a satire or almost a remake of Star Trek, while letting Seth Macfarlane pretend to be Captain Picard. Modern star trek has gotten off the rails, and a lot of the audience like me enjoy the Orville for trying to be true to the original optimistic future the inspiration showed.
un-evolved Cylons
I feel like I’d love this show so much more if the robot species looked like robots and not like “organics” wearing cool Dr Who robot cosplay
Nah, the Kaylons were intentionally designed to be non threatening and servile. They obviously are not, but the aesthetic is intentional.
The shows roots are still without a doubt in tv scifi. Both as a homage, but also in budget.
curious if they copied Indeed from Stargate
Echhhh....Orville is such a cheap knockoff of Star Trek. It's the "Equate" version. Like the Walmart copy of the brand names.
It's more like the "Galaxy Quest" version, a parody that loves its source material so deeply it does many things better than the original -- particularly when you remember that the original for both Orville and Galaxy Quest was really TOS, not the later series.
Not really. Orville has taken on a life of its own. Was kinda silly in the beginning but became more serious as it progressed.
I for one would much rather watch Orville anytime rather than any of the modern Star Trek variations except perhaps ST strange new worlds. And I'm a trekkie from waaayyyy back :).
Thats kinda what Seth was going for when he made this I believe
@@thegaminglevi130 I seriously doubt that.
I don't consider it a cheap knockoff when The Orville has presented most of the conflicts, topics, and lessons better than Star Trek has.
It's essentially having two people paint an orange: The person who did it first isn't necessarily the person who did it better.
You might argue "Why didn't they paint an apple?" but that's not the point of portraying an orange is it?