No stalk, No problem! A real demo of how Tesla's stalkless design works
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ย. 2023
- Tesla's current Model S and X and upcoming Model 3 Highland Refresh now feature a stalkless design. This video demonstrates how the feature works in real world scenarios with a current stalkless Model S.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You should test it in tight roundabouts... That's what most of the world is using instead of intersections. I can't stand those buttons on the new model s. It's impossible to use in roundabouts! Works fine in intersections, though. Teslabjorn demonstrated this in roundabouts a few months ago. It's basically unusable in roundabouts because you need to rotate the wheel several times, so you don't know where the buttons end up..
Whoever designed the stalkless turn signals obviously doesn't have any _roundabouts_ in their daily commute. Or alternatively, never considered driving in Europe. Maybe a green and a red sticker can bridge the gap until it's second nature, but Tesla clearly didn't think here.
Maybe then TeslaBjorn and others are not very good drivers because I can see an easy way round this without after market solutions.
Maybe those who complain about this are not very good drivers then..I can see how this can be easily used with no issues at all, so why can't anyone else?@@virtual-viking
@@taefravis Maybe, if those "who can see how this can be easily used with no issues at all" shared _HOW_ they think that is, they wouldn't be the only ones to see it.
@@taefravis How are you gonna know where the buttons are, and which is which, during that half a second, you have to press before exiting the rounadabout by turning the wheel? Please do explain to us bad drivers who've been driving rounadabouts since we were 18.
There is a big problem with safety without stalks and you demonstrated this several times in your demonstration.
When you are driving straight and have to turn once, no problem, but every time you had to turn immediately after to the other side, you didn't blink on the second turn as you should have done, because the wheel was upside down and moving and therefore almost impossible to hit the right button. The same happens when you have to turn out of a roundabout after the first road.
Europe have roundabouts everywhere because they are much safer than crossings.
Bs. It's not necessary. Change. Lower cost.
No stalk = No buy = No problem
Nailed it!
ROUNDABOUTS! The problem is the Highway Code enforced need to signal one way on entering and then signalling the other after passing the last exit before the one to be taken. Should not be a problem when using Navigation, it can do it for you. But when taking over in an emergency or driving manually your hands are out of position. You need to have driven in Europe or the UK to fully grasp the challenge here. Signalling on our roundabouts is bad enough already, this is going to make it worse and even more dangerous. I assume this stalk removal is compliant with our legal Construction and Use regulations but I could see that changing.
Nah. It's easy
Thanks for your video Daniel it is appreciated. I understand that in your use case the missing direction stalk doesn't really matter. But when you are living in the Netherlands and you have about 7 roundabouts in less then a mile and not signaling when you leave is a punishable event wich can net you a 100 dollar fine things are different a lot. So you might want to consider that your experience is not a universal thing.
My wife and I ordered the new model 3 but I can assure you we will be hunting for an aftermarket solution to this nonsense.
The old Model 3 are definitely better
Agree.. dane here, and its the same. Absolutely useless. Perhaps the dumbest thing they could have done. And for what? 20-100$ of cost saving? Now everyone is going to buy those lame ID4s instead.
How do BMWs handle roundabouts? They don't have turn signals.
I understand what you're saying, in Australia our roundabouts are a lot more basic, people generally only indicate before entering, that's it.
@@davidbeppler3032what BMW doesn’t have turn signals?! what a rediculous comment
In this video, perfectly demonstrates how No Stalk IS a Problem, lol, you indicated maybe a quarter of the turns you were making in that parking lot. I agree in North America in typical road driving it won't be a big deal (in Ontario, Canada, at the few roundabouts we do have I see maybe 5% of ppl properly indicating), but this is going to be terrible in lots and Europe. Gonna have to drive very defensively around newer Tesla's now since they're gonna be turning every which way without signalling in lots cuz they can't find the buttons.
This. Roads in europe are just narrower and this bad case scenario happens a lot more often.
I live in Wisconsin where there are lots and lots of roundabouts. I guess you are supposed to signal when exiting a roundabout, but aside from my daughter, who recently finished her drivers test, I’ve never seen anyone signal an exit. I don’t see the issue with the stockless turn signals. You click the button to turn it on, execute your lane change or turn and the car automatically turns off the signal. I can’t think of any situation where I need to engage a turn signal from the middle of a turn. That roundabout situation is the exception, I guess.
@jeffpicken5057 roundabouts seem to be the #1 concern. I think most people underestimate their ability to adapt. I think that for a lot of folks, even if it’s not their favorite feature in the whole wide world, they’ll adapt pretty quickly and it’ll seem like second nature.
@@techeddieIt’s simply impossible to use the turn signals correctly in roundabouts. There is nothing to adapt.
Where I live, driving through the city to work, I have to drive through 7 roundabouts. Driving to the shopping mall: 13 roundabouts.
As previous said, there is nothing to adapt about here, it is impossible to do this safely in a roundabouts. Roundabouts usually have unique radius which will affect where the buttons will be located when turning.
1) Indicators are unusable on roundabouts, when you need to indicate to exit and the indicator controls are going to be in an unfamilar location and orientation.
2) Flashing headlamps, you need to quickly flash your lights to alert someone - they are coming towards you, you have to act quickly. How ???
3) A bird has crapped on your windscreen, you need to clear it quickly without having to faff around in a menu system or finding buttons in an unfamilar place - How??
4) Autopilot. In most countries outside the US you need to disengage autopilot to change lane and overtake a vehicle, the enhanced autopilot attempts to do this automatically, but it is not really effective. Having autopilot controls on a stalk is much easier.
Overall, the reason cars have evolved to have controls on stalks is because that is what works best. Removing them (for either cosmetic reason or to save cost) is of secondary importance to having good cockpit ergonomics, reducing the cognitive load on the driver when facing unexpected situations in which he/she needs to act intuitively and quickly.
I drive the previous generation model S and this is ok, but I will not be buying a new model S or a new model 3 with these serious shortcomings.
Elon Musk - come to Milton Keynes in the UK and see how you get on.
To be honest, the drive direction selection really didn't seem nice at all in this video, and just further confirms my feeling that this is a major negative.
The Drive direction selection system works well as the person in the video mentioned. it essentially reduces the amount of steps involved in getting the car to move in the desired direction of travel. You no longer even need a stalk if the car automatically know which way you're most likely to go and it engages that so you don't have to. just hit the brake pedal and then instead of moving your hand to select Drive on the screen or the stalk, you just hit the accelerator pedal and start driving. Its much faster in practice. Let's just say you had a stalk on the steering wheel column and the auto gear selection enabled. you'd find yourself not even using the stalk rendering it useless.
@@shoaibahmed34 I'd still much rather have it, if not just for safety, but I probably would use it over the auto drive select.
This stalkless design is as bad as the horn being a button when they released the refresh model S/X, which Tesla had to change back to pressing the center of the steering wheel because it was dangerous and hard to find in a emergency situation. I don't mind minimalist designs but somethings should never be removed. I hope they listen and at least provide a way to install stalks after purchase at least, if not this is going to turn off a lot of people that were waiting for the highland model 3 or the juniper model Y.
Huge Tesla fan boy here. I thought I was 100% sure my next car would be a Tesla. No turn signal stalks is a deal breaker for me. I'll have to wait until they realize their mistake.
Today I drove one of these cars. The lack of indicator stalk is a blatant safety hazard.
Only fanboys deny.
The difference I believe from a traditional on the floor gear shift (not a stalk) is that you need to look at the screen and take your eyes off the road to switch gears. This is a major inconvenience imho.
To put it in a nutshell, the only positive thing about the stalkless design is the minimalistic look 😂
Who thought a car was designed to be driven ?
@5:30, stick shift and touchscreen shift are not the same in terms of intuitiveness. Can you shift without looking on the screen? Well, every drivers can shift with stick without looking, and that is the difference between "You'll get used to it " and "intuitive " controls.
Thanks for the video.. seems like the system works well for when to turn off the signal.
For me lack of stalks is a deal killer. I drive 300 miles per day, mostly in the city.
I am often turning into a lot and immediately turning left or right after the turn into the lot.
pretty impossible to hit the turn button while the wheel is still spinning back to center, or hit the horn in an emergency in a parking lot while turning.
Stalkless may or may not be more aesthetically pleasing.. but it is not an improvement in function..
I could easily hit the turn lever while the wheel is spinning, and the gear lever . I am often going from park to reverse to drive.. One fluid motion. brake.. reverse, wheel spinning around.. flick lever to drive... while still rolling back slightly.
Also requiring seat belt to move the car.. could be a pain.. in some circumstances.
I actually drove a new model S yesterday.. just to try it. For some reason.. the left and right turn buttons seems backwards to me.. I have no idea why. And it should not matter which is which.
I found it to be a royal pain in the ass.. had to look at the wheel every time to hit the button and the screen to shift.
Other than that the Model S was amazing.. As most Tesla's are.
Dealbreaker for me as well
I drive through 8 roundabouts every day. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to hit right button when the wheel is upside down etc. I cant having my eyes down on the steeringwheel while driving out of the roundabouts either.
The newer the Tesla you get it’s becoming less safe. When I got my M3 last year they removed parking sensors which was a very bad decision. Vision sensors don’t work well and teslas anyways don’t do collision mitigation braking. Now it’s the stalk.
Amazing how well you handled all those roundabouts! Don't remove essential kit from a car, until it is not necessary anymore. Alternatively, make different versions for different markets, but that is not cost effective.
If you must insist on getting rid of essential gear, try to do something intelligent. Move the right indicator to the right side of the wheel and implement a double tap on any indicator to reverse signallimg.
Removal of the stalks is just a big step backswards in comfort and usability of the main controls of the car and thereby in safety as well since now you are looking for buttons instead of looking out the window at traffic. Try to do a standard European roundabout or a 3-point-turn and it is a real nightmare compared to the stalks, so I just don't see this beeing anything other than a mindless attempt at saving money - but customers would pay for this if given the choice !
Thx Eddie for the informative video! Much appreciated!
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. You did not deal with the wiper function, which is necessary to activate manually. Especially in climates that have snow / dirty road conditions for several months of the year. Comments below on roundabouts also make the turn signal change hazardous.
Important controls in the vehicle should not be moving around. I find the turn signal change to be as annoying and stupid as the horn button. Hopefully the stalks can return, like the horn placement change, or with an aftermarket solution.
For real world drivers, Its difficult to place a lot of confidence in your opinion given that you use FSD as much as possible. You are not really living with the changes as much as people who drive themselves.
It seems like the only reason for these changes in controls is to change the look or possibly some minor cost savings. I don't respect Tesla's judgement in this case. Important controls should not be moved and set in motion, simply because some people might think it looks better.
Just get a 2023 tesla....
I didn´t find the horn as an issue but I rather have left blinker on the left side and right blinker on the right side.
Besides all the talk about the (lack of) stalks, I would also have appreciated to see you fitting your car in a narrow parking slot. With the removal of a physical gear lever or rotating knob, good luck to the driver looking backwards while having to constantly switch between forward and backward directions. The lack of haptic feedback with a touchscreen is simply stupid.
Can we get the high beams button on the floor like an old 68 Chevy pickup truck?
Thank you for your video, could you make a similar one where you show enabling autopilot and lane change without the stalk?
As for lane changes, most brands have the 'push lightly to indicate 3 or 5 times'
like... let´s say every one since forever!
Strikes me the "no stalks" thing is an opportunity for the aftermarket to step into the breach, like they've done providing options to ameliorate the missing instrument cluster issue in the 3 & Y.
@roundabouts is where i really kinda worry. i am not sure if i ll get used to it🤔maybe after few accidents😂 i can imagine driving in a busy roundabout and suddenly needed to exit. then i have to find the signal button first 😆 but i like the refresh over all👌👍
That seems to be the #1 concern. All I can say is that you do get used to the signal placement. Maybe we'll go back to hand signals out the windows lol. Or maybe at some point a "turn signal on navigate" option will arise.
@@techeddie or maybe voice command🤔👌
@@techeddieEveryone I see saying “you get used to the placement” never live in areas with large roundabout like Europe where the placement will always be slightly different because of the varying degrees that the wheel will be turned.
Tesla mandatorily updated my order to a highland, I was looking for a video like this since. Thaaaaaaaaaanks
super video! Thanks man. This will be reference material for car reviewers complaining!
Thanks for the video, I’m looking forward to seeing how the roundabout issue gets handled. On your question about auto turn signal shutoff in the recent Model 3 and Y - I have a 2023 M3, and you don’t need to be in autopilot for that to work. As of a few months ago, they added a setting in the Controls menu to activate the feature. For the most part it works very well, the signal shuts off as soon as the cameras recognize that you’ve changed lanes.
Bjorn Nyland says those turn signal buttons are messy
Roundabouts though... all of Europe.
I'm afraid Tesla drivers will be discouraged from using the indicators, almost becoming the bmw drivers 2.0
Sales will take a hit in Europe because of this. There's already a huge backlash... stupid cost cuttung move by tesla.. They somehow forgot that most of the world uses roundabouts instead of intersections. 🤔
What?
I've drive BMW for years and always use indicators. Looking at an EV, I considered Tesla but this stupidity put me off, that and the really shit build quality and materials.
The Stalinist design reminds me of a Yugo from the 1970s. Is that woodgrain formica on the dash?
Any update on when a possible aftermarket stalk will go to market ?
I don’t think removing turn signal stalks is going to be a problem in US because they’re rare. But in some part of Europe, you encounter as many roundabouts as intersections and not having stalks is going to be a huge dealbreaker. I predict that Tesla is going to back pedal after sometime and add stalks back as options (default for some market).
There is a company currently developing an aftermarket retrofit solution to mitigate it, so I guess whichever is preferred by the owner can be achieved.
I do think that such a radical move to remove a facility which is there for convenience and safety is a foolish ill thought decision
Well Tesla already backtracked on the terrible idea of making the horn a touch button on the S/X and thank god it’s back to normal in this car
Actually, most drivers in the US don't use indicators or when they do, they indicate the wrong way. I think to save money in the US they should take them off completely
New model X driver. The only stalk-less lost function that is a big problem for me is the turn signal. Having to signal while in a curve is near impossible. I now join the other 80% of folks in our area that do not signal in roundabouts. I will be looking for a third-party or Tesla modification to add a turn signal stock. Perhaps the phantom braking is so you have plenty of time to find the turn signal switch while stopped.
Since the turn signals are very responsive when changing lanes I don't think it really matters anymore but on my Corolla and most cars if you lightly press the stalk it will engage the signal 3 times and shut off does it have that with the the buttons , are you able to light press or is it only one press for turn signal period? Thank you for a good video. It helped.
When new model 3 is available to order in Phoenix I'm getting the performance.
There isn't a light press, I think because it's so responsive and also does well at ignoring unintentional touches. To shut it off you press the same signal again.
Most cars have that feature, my Tesla model 3 has the worst ergonomics of any car so it was hard to correctly choose light or full touch. Didn't realize how much worse Tesla could do on their next generation product until I got my S Plaid. These cheap buttons are hit or miss to even trigger at all and there can't be such a separation. The auto cancel feature does work 80% of the time to compensate for lack of light touch but isn't perfect. Overall these buttons are a big step backwards in ergonomics even if they sightly declutter the cabin.
It doesn't appear to have a light press but I've found the cameras work well when deciding when to turn the signal off. You could always press the button again to turn it off but I've never needed to do that since the car knows when the maneuver is complete and turns it off.
It doesn't appear to have a light press but I've found the cameras work well when deciding when to turn the signal off. You could always press the button again to turn it off but I've never needed to do that since the car knows when the maneuver is complete and turns it off.
just a question. how do you do a three-flash sequence and how do you do a continuous signal?
You can't really pick the number of flashes. It turns off on its own when it determines the maneuver is complete or you can manually turn it off with a second press.
We have roundabouts here in Canada more and more, but in everyday driving I signal ALWAYS… for lane changes.. for multiple lane changes (with pause in between)… so I signal a lot as you’re supposed to do, but most do not. Drove one of the new ones the other day… the finger dance was insane… to the to do this…..
How do you engage the emergency brake for parking on hills?
It’s under the safety menu in controls.
can anyone figure out how to signal left at 7:48 with the left hand? or with the right hand?
In America, even though we have roundabouts there are very few, so it won't be as much of an issue. However for everywhere else, I think there should at least be an option. Funny how it is released in Europe first lol.
Well done,Thanks
Aftermarket parts made my m3lr liveable i wonder what can be done about this
GFY. Don’t try to justify a dumb move by a major auto maker. Thank the Lord there are multiple companies that sell third party stalks which can be added back to the car. I am so happy this exists. I love my stalks.
Even the experts with tons of experience have issues using the buttons. Pressing the wrong button, or directly not pressing any button at all, in a roundabout.
I guess this works for crossed lines, but most of the world uses roundabouts
You said you use auto pilot 90% of the time. How do you enable auto pilot and disable it without a stalk? I use auto pilot all the time too with the double tap down on the stalk and the single tap up to disengage. Great video. Thanks
Thank you! The right scroll wheel enables it. You can set it to one or two taps.
@@techeddie Great. Thanks!
Next, Elon removes the entire steering wheel. That IS his goal, he said.
How do shift gear if the monitor goes out on you?
The PRNDL appears in the console under the wireless charger. In the model 3 it is above on the camera housing.
That is really stupid
What was wrong with having stalks in the first place? No one asked for a change
So glad to hear that others share my concern about roundabouts here in the comments section. Obviously, roundabouts are a larger issue in Europe, but roundabouts do exit in the USA as well, and in fact traffic patterns using roundabouts are on the increase on American secondary roads. I've owned Citroens that had no stalks, but the turn signal button was in a fixed position on the cluster, easily reachable, although a little "unusual." This Tesla interpretation takes stupidity to a new level. The turn signal buttons aren't even oriented horizontally, left and right. They're positioned VERTICALLY. Unintuitive at best. If I didn't know better, the strategy here is to make it easier for software to drive the car, rather than the driver. While this video does a fantastic job of explaining how all this works in a Tesla, it feels like we're trying to explain away a user interface that isn't "well engineered." I'm not going to lie, I've wanted to buy a Tesla, but after test driving this absurdity back to back with an Ioniq 5, 6, and a BMW i4, and the Polestar 2, the Tesla feels like it was designed by a child who doesn't have their driver's license yet.
This reminds me of what happened when BMW decided to change the indicators on their motorbikes. Instead of having a single rocker switch on the left, like every other motorbike, they put a left button on the left and a right on the right, with another button on the right to cancel indication. What they didn’t realise is that the right hand is already operating the throttle, which requires high precision control.
I tried riding one of these and ended up bunny hopping at every corner.
Thankfully, they got rid of this design on later models.
I have some suggestions for follow up videos:
1) Time how long it takes a stalkless tesla to complete 10
K-turns (3 point turns in UK speak) compared to a stalked tesla. See which design is the most efficient
2) Turn on the wipers using the touch screen only while driving down a very bumpy and winding road. Can you even hold your finger steady enough to hit the right area of the touch screen without taking your eyes off the road?
If you're not using auto wipers, the controls for the wipers are on the steering wheel not the touchscreen. I'll look at doing that k turn video and add it to the roundabouts video I'm making
I'm actually surprised that this got a pass in many non-US markets, but I guess they are obsessed with crash test results and safety aids, and that the user interface isn't considered provided it doesn't feature anything that might impale an occupant. I'm not in the market for an m3, but would very seriously consider an m2 if it ever eventuates - provided they see the light on this issue.
I'm surprised this got through too. Shocking!
Can your really see the left part that well with the wheel in the way?
Did you really not see that he did.
How do you turn on autopilot on the highway?? Used to be double tap on the stalk
It’s a single or double click of the right scroll wheel, depending on your settings
@@techeddie make sense，just remembered like a yoke 😅
Feels dangerous to just unbuckle to park. What if you are parked but you drop your phone and decide to pick it up before unbuckling and accidently step on the pedal?
Then your not parked therefore should not be stepping on the pedal lmao
Could it be that with the later soft update will be enough to turn the steering wheel only +- 90 degrees due to steering-by-wire feature of the new Model 3?
No steer-by-wire on the New Model 3.
How do you engage and cancel autopilot quickly? How do you use turn signal when steering wheel is upside down? No stalks, no fog lights, what's next no seat belts? No thanks.
I have a 2021 M3 ... the turn signals turn off by themselves based on camera detection of lane change completion, or turn completion. This is not something new.
Seems fine for anything other than roundabouts. But since there are lots of roundabouts in Europe, this is at the minimum going to be inconvenient - and worst case a safety hazard. I appreciate the simplicity, but I am skeptical if it works out in practice, at least outside of the American market. I really hope Tesla put some serious thought into this and didn't just design the vehicle for the American market, because this just might be a real issue in other places. It could also be that it's not - it's hard to tell without having tried it. But it's definitely a concern for me.
To be quite honest - you don't know what the problem is.
I would guess the same applies to Tesla's R&D unit.
What puzzles me is how this setup was deemed safe by the EU - it shouldn't.
Really the only way to drive the car in a roundabout is omitting signalling.
Lane changes requires minimum 3 flashes in Germany. It is supported in the model 3 by pulling and holding for a second the stalk halfway down (same as all newer cars)....
i believe your video was to show that the stalk removal is not a problem - now you convinced me that from american position the problem is not understood and therefore it is not addressed.
Quality video with some valuable insight.
Great review! Solid pace and detail to your monologue and totally great camera work.
Wonder why they didn't distribute the left and right turn-signal to the left and right side of the steeringwheel? Like Ferrari did. Wouldn't it be easier to muscle-memory?
because that would increase the cost, because the sole reason of removing the stalks is to reduce cost, meanwhile people think it is an upgrade but it is actually not
Yes I will get used to it, but I prefer stalks tbh
Stalks are just better
5:56 whats up with that pedal work???
How easy is it to do a K turn? Parallel park?
Honestly it's not much different than having a vehicle with a gear selector in the center console. You just reach over and shift. If anything, it takes a bit getting used to the fact that if you one pedal drive, letting the vehicle stop before you switch gears.
@@techeddie so it will be terribly slow and whole traffic has to wait while elon fanboy is fiddling with innovative touchscreen. By the way, when expect "swipe to brake" gesture instead of pedal?
No worries about round bound, nobody is using turn signals anyway
“I don’t have a ton of experience with roundabouts” That my friends summarises a trillion dollar f*ck up in a nutshell. It amazes me that there are people here who cannot see that this is a monumental problem.
You meant fanbois... whatever Elon put in there will be the best 😜... no USS sensors is better, square steering wheel still better than rounded, capacitive buttons and touch shift is amazingly better than stalks, ... and prepare for the next big thing... pressure sensitive floor to replace brake and accelerator pedals 😅
@@juantamad8339 next big thing would be door opening handles/buttons under the seat. rear.
@@AudriusN And fanbois will just say... "You'll get used to it!" 🤣
@@juantamad8339 "to open the window push the button which is located in the rear right wheel well"
I'm curious. What happens when you have to do multiple lane changes? Does it turn off after every lane change?
Depends. If you are crossing 2nor more lanes of traffic, it waits until it reaches your destination lane then turns off, unless you move one lane and pause for too long before switching, then it turns off and needs to be re-enabled.
Ok. Thank you.@@techeddie
thats a huge deal breaker for me it means everything has to be just right for everything to work flawlessly. Nothing beats have physical controls because they work flawlessly whenever you need it too. All this smart touch stuff will never beat physical controls. You can see how your babying everything and doing everything slowly when in real life when people need yo go they just chuck everything into gear or flick the indicator on all thoughtless actions. This is just mind numbing.
My concern is that you have to take your eyes off the road to do things you can do by feel with stalks.
Also, what about thick gloves in winter trying to use capacitive buttons?
@@Exciteduser Steering wheel heating is much more comfortable than gloves.
Where are you located? US?
No stalks is the dumbest delete Tesla has done so far. Stalks are great. If anything, add some more wiper controls back to the stalks.
This obviously does not work on roundabouts. You need to use the indicator befor leaving the roundabout. At that point the steering wheel is upside down. So the indicator butons are on the right hand side. If you can find the buttons, the button pointing to the outside (leaving the roundabout to the right) is the wrong indicator for the left. So not only is it hard to find the buttons on the other side while turning the steering wheel, you als have to remember clicking on the other button.
FSD is not available in cities in Europe
This simply shows another person in the US has no idea how the roads are like outside of US. Try using it in Europe or Asia, where there are busy traffic in roundabouts and you still have to switch multiple lanes to get to the exit, while keeping the eyes on the road, having the steering wheel up-side-down, and looking for the buttons (and hopefully don't push the wrong button while steering wheel is up-side-down). While you are looking for the right button, hopefully you won't be crashing into another vehicle as well, because I guarantee you that will happen. Not to mention parallel parking in countries with tight streets and alleys, sliding it on the screen or even pushing the buttons on the roof multiple times just seems silly at that point.
My Seat Leon has steering wheel buttons to change radio stations. I used these as a test to see if I could navigate using buttons instead of indicator stalks.
My short test confirms it's very unsafe on European roads. The Highway Code says that you must indicate to exit a roundabout, but the steering wheel can be upside down.
Finding the correct button to press causes you to look down at the steering wheel when you should be looking at the road.
I don't understand why Tesla have done this and don't understand why people think it isn't a problem!
No stalks driving is impossible through tight roundabouts in Norway, have model y, mrs wanted to buy model 3 for her but there is no way it can be used here. i want stalks back!! It should be an option as very least
No back-up sound on Reverse?
There's definitely a backup sound. Almost like a spaceship. My mic is only picking up my voice, I tried to filter out the rest of the distracting sounds.
Just watched "Ryans Model Y" channel where he did an "effortless" 7 point U turn using the screen Drive/Reverse command. 7 times his concentration went from outside the car to the screen and back. I do the same in my "stalked" Model Y and not once does my concentration leave looking at the surroundings. No amount of practice will get you used to changing directions via the screen without losing concentration outside.
Another safety feature "upgrade" from Tesla??
I've had my S Plaid and couldn't disagree more about the turn signals. I've easily adjusted to the gear selecting (don't trust auto gear selection at all it will be good enough to make you forget about it but it will fail at some point and probably cost you), agree the horn sucks but that is rarely used. Even if the turn signal buttons were to remain in exactly the same place the economics of these buttons isn't half as good as a physical lever, but when I am making multiple quick turns or in a round about just locating is a distraction much less pressing with the right amount of force to engage. I will definitely buy the s3xy buttons turn stalk option if it becomes available and hope Tesla can come to it's senses about this like it did with the terrible yoke.
The very idea of the location and orientation of it keep changing makes my hair stand. Are they trying to cut down the cost or possible customers? If it's part of their move to push their Full Self-Driving package not even available yet by making human driving less safe, they maybe doing the right thing or are they?
For Reverse/Drive it looks great, and I am sure we can get used to it. However, in Europe we don’t have Full-Self-Drive nor do we have stop signs - all we have is a constant barrage of roundabouts everywhere, so I cannot imagine it being as intuitive as you describe. The whole point of having the stalk placed relative to the steering wheel is to avoid confusion when turning the turn signal on. I have a hard time determining which direction to turn the slider wheels while in a roundabout already, so I cannot imagine it is going to be easier when the stalk is removed. I am glad you see no issues in the US, but this video only reaffirms that it is going to be a huge issue here. Luckily, my Model Y 2023 still has stalks, but I will make a note to never buy a Tesla again in the future. I am already hugely disappointed that Elon removed the Ultra Sonic Sensors to save money, so I already doubt I will be buying another Tesla again. I would have paid extra for my car to be able to detect obstacles in my garage, but Elon wants me to stop and check distance manually in a new car, where other cars give exact measurements.
The stalkless design is stupid, half the time the buttons are on the otherside of the wheel upside down.
Include your face camera, I want to see how many times you had to look. I think this will affect sales in Europe. It should have been done differently. I am not against removing the stalks, but this is not good.
Thanks for demonstrating this .
Personally I think it’s crap ( no disrespect), change for the sake of change does not make it good.
For a start , stalks are always in the same position , there is never going to be any confusion with a stalk or miscues , even the gear selector on the screen sucks imo , I’d rather have a T’BAR with a positive feeling, again , reinventing the wheel making it fiddly is just utter crap.
We have a model 3 in the family with all its gimmicky crap , but I’d rather drive my beat up 6 year old fleet special Toyota Camry.
Only Elon and his puppets don't understand this
From 2026 EuroNcap will be slashing the safety rating of vehicles like this, which lack physical buttons for critical controls. Their study shows that the lack of buttons reduce reaction times of driver more than being intoxicated.
Funny thing is that they call it minimalism with AI support, yet they removed the gear shifter and put its functionality on the monitor. But then they added separate gear control buttons just in case the monitor doesn't work? If that's the case, why not just keep it simple with just one column gear shifter with no extra buttons? It would be much more intuitive and less confusing. It’s just cost-saving..
Cost-saving is the future. Identification with negative thoughts is not the future.
The fact that you made a video trying to justify no stalks, proves it is dumb to not have. You shouldn’t have to explain it, yet you do.
Also, when Tesla made the steering wheel clean of buttons and just had the wheels. It was a step forward in minimalism. The wheels were contextual, meaning the same wheel/button did different things. However, now, the steering wheel has buttons that only do one thing. A total regression. A step in the opposite direction. 🤦🏽 further proving that having stalks was a step forward in simplicity and clean design. Everything Tesla stands for. Hopefully they learn from this and add them back in their refresh.
They won't have the choice but to put them back. Sales will plummet...
I don’t agree with this at all. Having the selector on the screen is completely different to using a manual shift. You don’t have to look at a gear stick to change gears, but you need to look to swipe the screen. Same for the indicator buttons when turning.
The omission of stalks is a design fail and is a deal breaker for when I need to replace my current Model 3.
“I don’t have a ton of experience with roundabouts” but I’ll give you my opinion of how I got used to continuing not having that experience, and it was OK. Well, in your state of the US, maybe.
But in Europe, roundabouts are 2 and sometimes 3-lane complex systems with pre-selected lanes and strict indicator rules (with points removed from your limited credit of points attached to the driver’s license + fines for failing to respect those). And it _is_ an issue when managing heavy traffic, switching lanes while continuing sharp turns and exiting the roundabout requires looking outside, not on your steering wheel. And no, people won’t let you through unless you indicate - they can’t read your mind. 🤷🏻♂
Also, we don’t have FSD in the EU so… ahem. Thanks for the effort, but there are other countries on this planet. Ergonomics include several rules, one of them is persistency in space and memory. A rule Tesla somehow decided to violate.
Great overview and video. The Model 3 does allow you to choose turn signal auto and that is the way I have it set and love it. I also drive often in FSD.
I can only assume that you don’t indicate when you turn, if you did then this video would not exist.
The future is so scary
Roundabouts are the greatest concerns. My suggestion to Tesla is that if the signal is engaged, then pressing ANY signal button should activate the opposite signal and double-tapping cancels the signal. So the scenario is you signal to enter the roundabout, and whilst in the turn, the steering wheel could be upside down or whatever, but you tap any signal button and it will switch signal to show that you are intending to exit.
Why fix something that isn't broken ?
Stalks are great
Or maybe retain stalks for European nations with old-skool road layouts based on rambling cart-tracks from 1000 yrs ago, which were based on pre-historic footways from 10,000 yrs ago, based on ancient herd-trails from 100,000 yrs ago, based on natural low-ground contours left after the last ice-age... Where I live there is only ONE straight section of old road, amongst the miles of narrow, twisty-turny inter-connected country lanes of the Surrey Hills (UK). And that was built by the Romans. Try Italy, Northern France, rural Germany, etc, they're even worse.
Roundabouts. One handed driving with hand on top of wheel. Turning right coming off a hairpin turn. Flash headlights. Right turn followed by quick left turn followed by quick right turn.
In Denmark we have roundabouts everywhere. This is a deal breaker for me. I hope some can retrofit the stalks. A stupid design decision to remove them. No UX testing done in the real world.
Only US people will be happy with no stalks. For the rest of the world it’s whether you want to adjust you driving to it and I feel most non-us based people when end up not bothering to signal at roundabouts.
Got to say, even though I've ordered my 2024 M3LR I have to add, no indicator stalks is stupid. Here in Australia, we too have many roundabouts. Failure to indicate when exciting is a fine and demerit points. Entering the roundabout is fine. Exiting is the problem. It really annoys me that these reviewers do not understand what the issue is! Sexy buttons maybe the solution.
When I was younger and living in the UK, the main cause of serious accidents on the roads was people indicating one way and driving the other.
This move by Tesla is pure idiocy.
I'm surprised that there isn't a safety body that disallows them from doing this?
People will get killed because of this (and moving the horn to a tiny button instead of the pad in the center).
People have muscle memory.
Expecting them to change how they interact with a car after driving the same way for 40 years isn't going to happen.
Do not identify with the thought. You will discover that problems do not exist.