On a lot of News media shoots, we do S-Cinetone for the press kit just because we don’t have time to grade. We’re editing a package within an hour of receiving footage and sending it off. So that’s where I love S-Cinetone:)
BIG FAN - Extremely well explained dude!!! I use S-Cinetone almost exclusively on my a7Siii and it is almost miraculous the way it delivers a perfectly exposed filmic-cinematic look EVERY TIME. I am way too busy doing audio and lighting while running and gunning to do S-log and colour grade in post. Giant waste of my time when Sony offers me a beautiful baked-in look right out of the box and not having to calculate exposure for every scene. I too set my zebras to 90% so I know immediately I am near the clipping point. It gives me great dynamic range still with nice natural roll-off on the highlights. As long as the exposure meter gives me ‘zeros’ I am perfectly exposed with no math needed. Oh and lights in the scene have a beautiful filmic glow. NIRVANA!!
You A7III users are making me want one even though there are newer better models in the A7 brand. I still hear people say this looks better than A74 and 5
It’s crazy how my path in learning photography and video has gone hand in hand with the content you produce. Every time I reach a wall in the technical aspect of Sony cameras, you basically upload a video about it weeks later. Thank you for the content you make!
The whole purpose of s-cinetone is to provide a pleasing cinematic look. Cinematic footage doesn’t need masses of dynamic range! Also, the lighting and scene should be controlled. People tend to jump away from s-cinetone the moment they have clipped highlights, rather than spending time to consider the scene. For unique situations like weddings and external real estate, then it’s probably safer in log. But for simple cinematic footage, just practise and experiment with it before giving up! Also, a little grading with the blacks can very nicely contrast with any slight overexposure of the highlights!
I prefer S-cinetone when it comes to client work such as wedding, parties or events. Easy to color grade or no need to color grade at all. Reason why for me is because S-cinetone gives me a fast turnaround time. I only use Slog3 for personal projects or if Im working with clients in control environments like music videos, documentaries and short films. For my youtube video where i just rant, I use the standard colors as I dont have a lot of time to color grade. And the sony standard colors is great enough since most of the times, people will listen to your rant rather than watch the videos haha.
One thing I love is that your final grades always have this rich vibrant feeling. So glad you pave your own path with grading. Keep up the amazing work dude
Nice video Jason - I use an FX3 and a lot of projects I've been shooting this year are "run and gun" events where I am the audio guy, director, gimbal and camera operator! Therefore, for me using S-Cinetone works well, I have a couple of customised LUTs that I apply in post at 20-30% just to make it pop a little, I then use the monochrome waveforms to check my highlights aren't clipping above 95 and my blacks sit just above 0. It's enabled me to turnaround projects super fast, and most importantly it's allowed me to capture the shot on the day without worrying too much about exposure and settings. That said, I have a series of corporate interviews coming up where it makes sense to shoot in S-LOG3 to push the boundaries of colour with my FX3. Keep up the great work buddy - Subscribed
Good explanations. Every technology comes with caveats. This applies to s-log and s-cinetone as well. S-log isn’t magical tool. Actually on those mirrorless cameras, quality of s-log can be worse than s-cinetone. The problem is noise, colour anomalies etc. S-log requires a lot of expertise and very powerful computers to use in your workflow. It seems that colour grading has become certain hype, often evangelised by people who are selling LUT’s etc. So be careful before jumping to shoot in s-log, this might become very expensive. Both tools are good to have, just do the math before choosing which to use. Most freelance videographers can’t afford s-log. It’s great that Sony made s-cinetone available in new mirrorless cameras.
One of my favorite TH-camrs as of lately thank you for this beautiful video super comprehensive and I really took away so much in this short time I just got an fx6 to suit my fx3 and have been expirmenting with s cicerone in very controlled lighting spaces as in my TH-cam studio doesn't really need extra room for dynamic range as I don't reveal any windows showing exterior highlights so this video helped me understand how to properly expose. I learned to expose traditionally for S LOG and when I was in s Cinetone exposing for 1.7+ on the exposure multi meter I was noticing my highlights were beyond blown out so thank you for assuring me that 0 is now the correct general area to be around!
On my other YT channel? S-Cinetone for my talking head "talks". I actually just throw on a CST in Davinci R.709 to CIneon Flim to a Kodak film lut to just give it some "punch", i dont usually color much because I use RGB lighting when shooting to get a "look" and if I want to bring the shadows down a bit more or play with exposure? I have a tiny bit of room to do so. If some colors need to be pushed or pulled one way or another? I just throw on a Hue vs Hue/Hue vs Sat node and thats it. For my job, if I am at a trade show and i am literally "run and gunning" the entire week? S-Cinetone again using essentially the same work flow. If im going for more "cinematic" looks with REALLY punchy colors and looks? S-Log3 all day. You can really, really feel you have that more filmic look when you start grading and while maybe it takes a bit longer to grade? The reward you get when your done with the project is more than worth it.
Great video. As always. I have used S-Cinetone once at wedding ceremony, but very harsh sunlight changing every few minutes just ruined my footage. If I would use Slog-3 instead I could fix some of them, but..to late. That is why the best dynamic range is so important. Thanks again for your effort, time and shared video, Jason. One of my favourite youtube channel. 👌👌👌
*No Lie here, as I started learning about S-Log when I got my Sony ZV-1 & Then A6400 & Now My FX30 I only knew about S-Log of course I used S-Log 2 on My ZV-1 and I tried using it on the FX30 and I found that S-Log 3 to be Better for me then Log 2. I find it's easier too color grade as far as just to post for Videos on YT and It's just simple for me but the Zebra I learned that awhile ago but still learning lmao as No one has all the knowledge but with channels like yours it makes it easy too understand w/o having over simplify it*
I just got the Sony FX6 as my first cinema camera and upgrade from the ZV-1 and I using S-Cinetone all the time when shooting and to be honest, not only it speeds up my workflow since I'm not a color grading professional but it looks straight up amazing, I shoot all of my shots in XAVC-I 4K24P internally.
Awesome tips! I'm still new to the FX30 and have only been shooting with SLog3 (and loving the results). But I can see where S-Cinetone can be useful for quick turnarounds and handoffs to other editors or clients. I'll have to experiment with it so I can add it to my workflow. Thanks for the clarity.
Thanks to another TH-cam creator, I use a custom Cine2 profile instead of S-Cinetone. I've decided that for my TH-cam review videos, I really don't need to shoot in SLog3 unless I want to demonstrate a camera's capabilities. So, I have started using the custom Cine2 profile, shot in 8-bit, for my YT videos that don't require custom grading. It speeds up editing immensely. I switched to the Cine2 profile because - for some strange reason - S-Cinetone gives my skin tones a yellow color cast. Which I do not get in any other profile, including SLog3. For Zebras I use 95 as well. Except for skin tones, I use 42 for studio shots when there are no windows or bright lights in the shot.
Your luts/grading look absolutely beautiful. About to upgrade to the A7iv from my A7iii and can't wait to have 10bit recording. Will defiantly be picking up your luts off your link! Best channel for Sony video I've found.
Thanks Jason, another helpful topic for me. I'm an experienced stills photographer trying to teach himself how to shoot video, but there is so much to learn. This helps me better understand S-log3 a little bit better and why I should starting to gain experience with it. I shoot 100% raw so logically S-log3 seems the profile to go with, albeit I only ever tried s-cinetone to date. I bought DaVinci Studio and have yet to really start understanding colour grading, although l know enough to realise it's a pretty good (poss best) colour grading tool. So much to learn. Been binge watching YT when I can get some spare time but probably need to start shooting video a bit more so I can consolidate some of the theory and start building a modicum of video skill.
If you download the standard rec.709 LUT from the Sony website for free and put a slight s-curve onto it, it will look pretty decent. Always practice will help progress your knowledge here though as you would know
Hey Jason! After watching this video, an impression came to me that you have a natural talent for explaining and clarifying technical matters as well as a great love for the cinematic image. So, have u ever thought of setting up a series of online courses with some of your Aussie buddies down under like full time filmmaker. However, not charging the exorbitant prices like they've cranked up. It would take lots of work & time. Maybe, your too busy to consider doing such, but if you did, I'm certain you could be doing the film community a real service. 😎😎
I think the bottom line is never to use any 'baked' in looks if possible- give yourself the most flexibility in post by shooting in Log (and with the FX30/FX3 allowing LUT's to be applied to the playback display you don't even have to use a pro 'imagination' to see how good it is going to look when graded...)
3:16 The reason why it's ISO 100 and 2000 with s-cinetone is because that's what the sensor is actually driven at. Slog 3 is a log gamma function which in this camera boosts the brightness by 2.5EV while in other sony cameras it does it by 3EV. Meaning when you're using slog3 in ISO12800, you're actually driving the sensor at 2000 ISO. You can test this by shooting photos at ISO 100 and 2000 then slog3 video at 640 and 12800. Once graded you'll notice the exposure looks exatcly the same.
Jason, excellent❗ I had decided on S-Cinetone for my a7IV beginner-hobbyist video making for simplicity. But you are right- with no day job (intentional, not laid off) why not experiment with S-Log3 or even HLG3 as one of your commenters suggested? Appreciate your detail here about the differences of the PPs and exposure settings. This is a very helpful and inspiring video.
Cinetone requires are more light than SLOG3. Switching my Sony Alpha 1 (sony a1) from slog3 to Cinetone (in the picture profile menus), Monitor+ shows two completely different native ISOs. What is also notable is how much lower the ISOs are in Cinetone. So one disadvantage of Cinetone is that it requires much more light. The dual gain ISOs in Cinetone are 125 and 640. And the dual gain ISOs in SLOG3 are 800 and 4000.
I am not a professional but I am way down the rabbit hole and love to film. Your channel has been one of my go to channels for information. TY. One situation I struggle with is filming my family in Theatre productions. I am alway trying to decide how to deal with the spot lights. Should I expose using zebras on the talent with the spots on them and let the rest of the footage be slightly under exposed? I can't keep changing the aperture as lights come on and off. Welcome thoughts from you and/or your fans. S-Cinetone is probably too low an ISO on my FX30's. I filmed the last show at 2500 in order to keep the f-stop up and more of the scene in focus.
youre videos are so helpful!! I haven't even gotten my fx30 yet but I've been watching your videos to help answer my questions ill have in the future! thank you
do you preserve dynamic range if you shoot in s-log and then apply s-cine LUT in post? What about 8 bit colour in s-cine pic profile? Noticeably worse than 10 bit?
My problem with Slog3 using the A7IV is that I found if it’s even slightly overexposed in bright sunlight, it gives the skin tones and unrecoverable weird, pink tone. It’s WAY off every single time. So then, when I try to expose a little lower at some point a A lot of green and noise gets in it. I just found this out at the last wedding. I did where I decided to shoot in Slog3. I don’t like something where I have to be so incredibly careful.
Great info, I have been playing about a lil with slog-3 since I started editing in DVR recently but the s-cinetone is my go-to for now . I do think in the future I will utilize s-log-3 more often after I learn more about coloring .
Ive set up S- Cinetone in the normal movie setting in my FX3 and s log 3 (cine ei) in the MR 1,2,3 modes. I’ve never used cinetone because slog 3 is pretty easy to use and I like the workflow
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema And by setting up a custom preset in Davinci with all the color management settings (input / workspace / output color spaces), its really just as easy as working with Cinetone (I imagine)
Does the FX 6 have multimeter mode? I can't seem to find it anywhere...I guess my question is on the FX 6 do I need to use auto exposure to overexpose a stop or 2? Since I can't adjust the ISO in Cine EI mode, is that the only way to overexpose or is adjusting aperture the only way? Sorry a bit confused here.
Congrats Jason for your detailed video! I used to use slog3 but couldn’t find a proper conversion lut so I turned into cinetone which work more than fine. I love the colours you get from your luts but for my s3 do I choose the fx30 lut or the a7iv?
Great video Jason. And I just received my ZV-E1 2 days ago, did you find out if you shot log with embedded LUTs on it, and with “show LUT”, then yes LUT color is on the video when looking at the screen on camera. however when download to computer, it’s still only a plain log video file with no LUT burned in it. 😓😵 And when google with Sony Menu, that’s what it said “ [Embed LUT File] is locked to [Off] when using SD cards or SDHC cards.” Then ZV-E1 is only with 1 SD card slot, what does it mean? Anybody successfully have the log with embed LUT and still showing in Computer?
Sony always seem to put the best new features in their prosumer cameras, that then v.slowly trickle into the 'professional' line. I've even got a Sony camcorder from about 20 years ago with touch screen focus! (PDx10) That feature has only come to the pro cameras (like the FX6) in the recent years.
I came across a wedding Film maker who creates his own Log settings inside the Creative picture profile NT very low contrast and very high shadows….flat like slog but not locked to a native iso and his Luts work amazingly on it. Any experience doing your own flat profile outside of slog for flexible iso?
I think HDR video is increasingly important. Virtually all new cinematic content that I encounter is HDR today, and even iPhones can shoot Dolby Vision HDR video. TH-cam's support for HDR leaves something to be desired, but it does exist. What I would love to see is something like S-Cinetone, but the output should be Rec.2020 PQ HDR or something that is ready for use as HDR video. It annoys me that it's so hard to edit and create HDR content from a professional camera, when it isn't too hard to do SDR video, but both SDR and HDR are easy on an iPhone. Most S-Log3 LUTs that I've seen are intended to render into Rec.709, not Rec.2020.
@@SianCKB I don’t have any great advice… my workflow has been pretty hacky, which is why I find this so annoying. I think it should be a lot easier by now.
I just got myself a FX three and it does not have PP7 and PP8 showing i’ve tried everything trying to find it and it’s nowhere to be found. Could you help with that problem?
Great video Jason, thank you. So you leave your zebras at 95 in both S-cinetone and S-Log 3, even though they clip at different levels? (109 and 94 I think ?) I’ve been setting them higher in cinetone and curious on your take.
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema If you set your Zebras to 95 in SLOG3, you will not see any zebras. Max is 94+ in SLOG3. If you are still seeing zebras at 95, it's because you have a LUT applied in-camera and is using those IRE values. Please pin a comment to the top so that people don't get confused by this and end up with a bunch of overexposed unusable footage. I did a video recently on my channel explaining how Gamma Display Assist can still be used on FX3 - this is precisely the reason why. There is too much confusion otherwise.
@@RandumbTech i have my zebras at 94+ wheni record in slog3 and set gama assist on so i can see in the screen like its rec709. if i apply a lut in-camera _just for viewing, not to bake it) shouldi chage the 94+ value of zebras?
@@hamurabidios If you apply a LUT in camera, regardless of whether or not you embed it, you will need to use IRE values for that specific LUT. The best way to do it is to turn the LUT on and then crank the ISO so it's massively overexposed. Then increase your zebra value until it suddenly disappears. That is your clipping point.
Hey man, great video. I'm coming from the a73 and jumping to a74 and want to know what's the best option for me. Can I stay using the cine 4 pp I've been using as it's semi flat and allows for some editing? I don't want to use slog as my clients don't pay enough to colour grade that much. Will s cinitone be a better option than cine 4?
You mentioned a few times you get a lot more dynamic range but no numbers were given. If for example FX3 has 15+ stops of dynamic range does it drop to 10 stops with S Cinetone? Numbers would be helpful
Your videos really help a lot to understand better. Just one question; can I use your Cinematone LUT in place of S709 in FX30? Will it help? Thanks in advance.
Im assuming S-Cinetone would he a good alternative for quick turnaround videos with little dynamic range needed? Im thinking something like indoor shots only or sunrise/susnet golden hour if outside and no night shots. Otherwise,i wonder if S-Cinetone falls apart in other scenarios.
For the Sony Alpha 7 IV for the S-Cinetone settings, the two ISO values are top and noise-free: 125 and 500...all others in between should I not use for a perfect picture for videos?
Hi Sir, I love your contents. I have one doubt which is, I have zv e10 and I love to do wild life photography. Will it be a good combination (Sony ZVe10 with Sigma 150-600 mm lens) for wild life photography and videography??? Please reply me here or else please make a separate video for it. Thanks
I have a question. Why on my A7IV when I use s-log3 my image doesn't appear as flat as in most videos of the same camera on TH-cam? It seems more contrasty
@@electricalservicesmaroc Not really much, what you see is what you get. It is like having S-Cinetone but the dynamic range of Slog2 (not Slog3), but it has way superior details recoverability when under or over exposed but not the clipped details. I tend to over expose by 0.7+ but 0.0 is fine as well depending on the scene. Slog3 tends to break down when not exposed perfectly, which makes it a high risk high rewards situation. Slog3 uses Rec.709 which is extremely narrow by default, but on S-Gamut3.Cine or S-Gamut/S-Gamut3 which are like roughly 10% wider than Rec.2100/Rec.2020 but you must know how to open up that potential like in DaVinci Resolve Wide Gamut but doubt it'll be as rich in color as Rec.2020/Rec.2100.
@@electricalservicesmaroc Forgot to say that if you wanna deliver your video in Rec.709 you need to convert the video in post or colors might look weird to you.
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema Yes! Most people didn't give it a chance when 10bit came. SLog3 is great, but HLG3 is much safer with plenty of dynamic range, recoverability, and wide color space to play with.
Sorry for asking this, but my sony fx3 base iso always stops at 160.. if i turn i down again, it will go auto instead of 100, it doesnt let me turn down to iso 100.. may i know why? hope you can help me out please
Love your videos mate! If I'm a complete beginner and the fastest turnaround time without sacrificing quality what do you recommend? S-Cinetone, Cine2, or HLG? Cheers!
I'm finding S Log time consuming to color if the footage is is not shot precisely within the MM expose range I do think the the footage is quite beautiful with S Cinetone out of the box. I'm a pretty good colorist but it's way too time consuming with S Log
So far I have found that with my A7 IV, photos in S log 3 are spectacular, but the video all looks soft. Is there a reason for that? Also can I set the camera up for S Cinetone in video and S log 3 in video with different exposure comp or do I have to change settings each time? Any help appreciated
Great video. Just about to start a studio based two person 3 cam video podcast (FX6, A7S3, and FX30 for wide shot and two closer shots). Would you recommend SLOG3 or S-Cinetone?
that depends how your grading skills are. I would usually suggest s-log due to color matching easier. Plus i am assuming you will have control over the light so S-log can be exposed correctly
I have FX30 and use S-Log 3 BUT when it comes to 120fps Cinetone looks so much better. There's almost no noise and I just dont get it because it makes no sense to me. Hows that even possible? Unfortunately Cinetone color correction / dynaming range is tragic compared to S-Log 3.
So I have the FX3 Sony, Im a novice shooter, should I just use S-cinetone expose for highlights 95% zebras? just use S-cinetone, and adjust highlights in Post
Hi Jason and thanks for your wonderful videos and job ! I am a wedding photographer and am looking forward to start making videos, as well. I would have one question using S-log 3. In a low light situation (for the "First dance" in a wedding, for instance), would you still overexpose the scene higher than ISO 12800 if needed in order to get the +1.7 or +2 stops exposure (talking about the ZV-E1, second based ISO)or would you keep this scene exceptionally at 00 metering or O+3 if the scene looks OK at iso 12800 ? In fact would you sometimes go up to 16'000 or 20600 ISOS in order to have the scene surexposed by 2 stops or would stop at ISO 12800 with a lower metering (0+3 or 0+7 for instance)? I am only talking about low light situations...It would look strange for me to overexpose a dark scene by 2 stops but would do it if you recommand it.
I'm going to buy an FX-3 soon and watched a lot of footages and tutorials. you shold never shoot in other than the base ISOs (800 or 12800 for the FX-3) That's where you get the perfect image quality with no noise. Play with aperture, ND filters or illuminate the scene rather than shooting in other ISOs. Cheers!
@@GustavisimoG ok but when shooting city landscape at night with very little light if base iso is too dark what can i do to expose normally and not underexpose?>
@@hamurabidios I would play with aperture, or a more luminous lens. As a last resort I would shoot in manual S-log3 and crank the ISO over 12800, Cameras like FX-3 handle high ISOs very well.
It's not possible to alter exposure using ISO Exposure is only affected by your choice of f stop and shutter speed Once you have as much light as you can get onto the sensor all you are doing is turning up the brightness along with any noise. I'm just saying what has already been said, but in different words!
On a lot of News media shoots, we do S-Cinetone for the press kit just because we don’t have time to grade. We’re editing a package within an hour of receiving footage and sending it off. So that’s where I love S-Cinetone:)
Oh yeah that sounds way more productive and easier. Thanks for the commenting that
BIG FAN - Extremely well explained dude!!!
I use S-Cinetone almost exclusively on my a7Siii and it is almost miraculous the way it delivers a perfectly exposed filmic-cinematic look EVERY TIME. I am way too busy doing audio and lighting while running and gunning to do S-log and colour grade in post. Giant waste of my time when Sony offers me a beautiful baked-in look right out of the box and not having to calculate exposure for every scene. I too set my zebras to 90% so I know immediately I am near the clipping point. It gives me great dynamic range still with nice natural roll-off on the highlights. As long as the exposure meter gives me ‘zeros’ I am perfectly exposed with no math needed. Oh and lights in the scene have a beautiful filmic glow. NIRVANA!!
Love it! Thanks for commenting your thoughts and how you film
You A7III users are making me want one even though there are newer better models in the A7 brand. I still hear people say this looks better than A74 and 5
It’s crazy how my path in learning photography and video has gone hand in hand with the content you produce. Every time I reach a wall in the technical aspect of Sony cameras, you basically upload a video about it weeks later. Thank you for the content you make!
That is awesome! Thanks for sticking by my channel
I am in the same boat as you! :)
The whole purpose of s-cinetone is to provide a pleasing cinematic look. Cinematic footage doesn’t need masses of dynamic range! Also, the lighting and scene should be controlled. People tend to jump away from s-cinetone the moment they have clipped highlights, rather than spending time to consider the scene. For unique situations like weddings and external real estate, then it’s probably safer in log. But for simple cinematic footage, just practise and experiment with it before giving up! Also, a little grading with the blacks can very nicely contrast with any slight overexposure of the highlights!
I prefer S-cinetone when it comes to client work such as wedding, parties or events. Easy to color grade or no need to color grade at all. Reason why for me is because S-cinetone gives me a fast turnaround time. I only use Slog3 for personal projects or if Im working with clients in control environments like music videos, documentaries and short films. For my youtube video where i just rant, I use the standard colors as I dont have a lot of time to color grade. And the sony standard colors is great enough since most of the times, people will listen to your rant rather than watch the videos haha.
Yes fast turn around can be super crucial for those jobs.
Please your all setting for s cintone pp11 profile ??
@@electricalservicesmaroc it's just the Sony setting. No changes to p11 at all. I would add contrast and colors in post-editing if needed.
One thing I love is that your final grades always have this rich vibrant feeling. So glad you pave your own path with grading. Keep up the amazing work dude
Life is too dull. Need to spruce it up a little 😂
Nice video Jason - I use an FX3 and a lot of projects I've been shooting this year are "run and gun" events where I am the audio guy, director, gimbal and camera operator! Therefore, for me using S-Cinetone works well, I have a couple of customised LUTs that I apply in post at 20-30% just to make it pop a little, I then use the monochrome waveforms to check my highlights aren't clipping above 95 and my blacks sit just above 0. It's enabled me to turnaround projects super fast, and most importantly it's allowed me to capture the shot on the day without worrying too much about exposure and settings. That said, I have a series of corporate interviews coming up where it makes sense to shoot in S-LOG3 to push the boundaries of colour with my FX3.
Keep up the great work buddy - Subscribed
Good explanations. Every technology comes with caveats. This applies to s-log and s-cinetone as well. S-log isn’t magical tool. Actually on those mirrorless cameras, quality of s-log can be worse than s-cinetone. The problem is noise, colour anomalies etc. S-log requires a lot of expertise and very powerful computers to use in your workflow. It seems that colour grading has become certain hype, often evangelised by people who are selling LUT’s etc. So be careful before jumping to shoot in s-log, this might become very expensive. Both tools are good to have, just do the math before choosing which to use. Most freelance videographers can’t afford s-log. It’s great that Sony made s-cinetone available in new mirrorless cameras.
Most underrated advice. S-Cinetone is just not okay, unless you're in controlled light environment. Outside I ruined SO many shots due to exposure.
Social Events and ENG: S-Cinestone
Commercials and Music videos: S-log 3
Movies: Raw
vacations: n/a
One of my favorite TH-camrs as of lately thank you for this beautiful video super comprehensive and I really took away so much in this short time I just got an fx6 to suit my fx3 and have been expirmenting with s cicerone in very controlled lighting spaces as in my TH-cam studio doesn't really need extra room for dynamic range as I don't reveal any windows showing exterior highlights so this video helped me understand how to properly expose. I learned to expose traditionally for S LOG and when I was in s Cinetone exposing for 1.7+ on the exposure multi meter I was noticing my highlights were beyond blown out so thank you for assuring me that 0 is now the correct general area to be around!
On my other YT channel? S-Cinetone for my talking head "talks". I actually just throw on a CST in Davinci R.709 to CIneon Flim to a Kodak film lut to just give it some "punch", i dont usually color much because I use RGB lighting when shooting to get a "look" and if I want to bring the shadows down a bit more or play with exposure? I have a tiny bit of room to do so. If some colors need to be pushed or pulled one way or another? I just throw on a Hue vs Hue/Hue vs Sat node and thats it. For my job, if I am at a trade show and i am literally "run and gunning" the entire week? S-Cinetone again using essentially the same work flow. If im going for more "cinematic" looks with REALLY punchy colors and looks? S-Log3 all day. You can really, really feel you have that more filmic look when you start grading and while maybe it takes a bit longer to grade? The reward you get when your done with the project is more than worth it.
Great video. As always. I have used S-Cinetone once at wedding ceremony, but very harsh sunlight changing every few minutes just ruined my footage. If I would use Slog-3 instead I could fix some of them, but..to late. That is why the best dynamic range is so important. Thanks again for your effort, time and shared video, Jason. One of my favourite youtube channel. 👌👌👌
Certainly dynamic range in that situation would have been key. We all learn for next time unfortunately if it is even the hard way 😅
Just a quick note to say appreciate you. Enjoy and learn every time. Good luck on the 100K, I know you can do it.
Thanks my friend
*No Lie here, as I started learning about S-Log when I got my Sony ZV-1 & Then A6400 & Now My FX30 I only knew about S-Log of course I used S-Log 2 on My ZV-1 and I tried using it on the FX30 and I found that S-Log 3 to be Better for me then Log 2. I find it's easier too color grade as far as just to post for Videos on YT and It's just simple for me but the Zebra I learned that awhile ago but still learning lmao as No one has all the knowledge but with channels like yours it makes it easy too understand w/o having over simplify it*
I just got the Sony FX6 as my first cinema camera and upgrade from the ZV-1 and I using S-Cinetone all the time when shooting and to be honest, not only it speeds up my workflow since I'm not a color grading professional but it looks straight up amazing, I shoot all of my shots in XAVC-I 4K24P internally.
Finally...someone explained. Thanks
Thanks for watching
very true. I used cinetone is I found that its so hard to edit. especially for beginners like me
Keep crushing it
Awesome tips! I'm still new to the FX30 and have only been shooting with SLog3 (and loving the results). But I can see where S-Cinetone can be useful for quick turnarounds and handoffs to other editors or clients. I'll have to experiment with it so I can add it to my workflow. Thanks for the clarity.
Always good to know both profiles incase you need it
Love that S-Cinetone vs Slog Chart for all Sony models. Thanks for presenting that
No problems. Hope it helps
Thanks to another TH-cam creator, I use a custom Cine2 profile instead of S-Cinetone. I've decided that for my TH-cam review videos, I really don't need to shoot in SLog3 unless I want to demonstrate a camera's capabilities. So, I have started using the custom Cine2 profile, shot in 8-bit, for my YT videos that don't require custom grading. It speeds up editing immensely. I switched to the Cine2 profile because - for some strange reason - S-Cinetone gives my skin tones a yellow color cast. Which I do not get in any other profile, including SLog3.
For Zebras I use 95 as well. Except for skin tones, I use 42 for studio shots when there are no windows or bright lights in the shot.
Ok great
Your all setting for ciné 2 ??
Oh yes cine2 is a decent profile
Man, you deserve the best. Your videos are very good 👍👏
Your luts/grading look absolutely beautiful. About to upgrade to the A7iv from my A7iii and can't wait to have 10bit recording. Will defiantly be picking up your luts off your link! Best channel for Sony video I've found.
Thanks Jason, another helpful topic for me. I'm an experienced stills photographer trying to teach himself how to shoot video, but there is so much to learn. This helps me better understand S-log3 a little bit better and why I should starting to gain experience with it. I shoot 100% raw so logically S-log3 seems the profile to go with, albeit I only ever tried s-cinetone to date.
I bought DaVinci Studio and have yet to really start understanding colour grading, although l know enough to realise it's a pretty good (poss best) colour grading tool.
So much to learn. Been binge watching YT when I can get some spare time but probably need to start shooting video a bit more so I can consolidate some of the theory and start building a modicum of video skill.
If you download the standard rec.709 LUT from the Sony website for free and put a slight s-curve onto it, it will look pretty decent.
Always practice will help progress your knowledge here though as you would know
Hey Jason! After watching this video, an impression came to me that you have a natural talent for explaining and clarifying technical matters as well as a great love for the cinematic image. So, have u ever thought of setting up a series of online courses with some of your Aussie buddies down under like full time filmmaker. However, not charging the exorbitant prices like they've cranked up. It would take lots of work & time. Maybe, your too busy to consider doing such, but if you did, I'm certain you could be doing the film community a real service. 😎😎
Definetly S-Cinetone has been a life saver
I think the bottom line is never to use any 'baked' in looks if possible- give yourself the most flexibility in post by shooting in Log (and with the FX30/FX3 allowing LUT's to be applied to the playback display you don't even have to use a pro 'imagination' to see how good it is going to look when graded...)
Great breakdown between the 2. Loved this! Take care!
LOL...I just tested scinetone again earlier and graded it...and then this vid comes out🤩
Your ears were burning haha
3:16 The reason why it's ISO 100 and 2000 with s-cinetone is because that's what the sensor is actually driven at.
Slog 3 is a log gamma function which in this camera boosts the brightness by 2.5EV while in other sony cameras it does it by 3EV.
Meaning when you're using slog3 in ISO12800, you're actually driving the sensor at 2000 ISO.
You can test this by shooting photos at ISO 100 and 2000 then slog3 video at 640 and 12800. Once graded you'll notice the exposure looks exatcly the same.
Great information! Thank you. Does the in-camera rec709 overlay/LUT effect the zebra values compared to just looking at the Slog?
You´deserve the 100,000 subscribers and more! I hope you´ll get it soon.
Jason, excellent❗ I had decided on S-Cinetone for my a7IV beginner-hobbyist video making for simplicity. But you are right- with no day job (intentional, not laid off) why not experiment with S-Log3 or even HLG3 as one of your commenters suggested? Appreciate your detail here about the differences of the PPs and exposure settings. This is a very helpful and inspiring video.
Yes HLG is what I use to use on the older Sony cameras before 10bit. S-cinetone is the easiest profile where HLG requires more attention and grading
I use S-Cinetone 100% of the time for my weddings and my grades are better than mostly all slog grades I see lol
Cinetone requires are more light than SLOG3. Switching my Sony Alpha 1 (sony a1) from slog3 to Cinetone (in the picture profile menus), Monitor+ shows two completely different native ISOs. What is also notable is how much lower the ISOs are in Cinetone. So one disadvantage of Cinetone is that it requires much more light. The dual gain ISOs in Cinetone are 125 and 640. And the dual gain ISOs in SLOG3 are 800 and 4000.
I am not a professional but I am way down the rabbit hole and love to film. Your channel has been one of my go to channels for information. TY. One situation I struggle with is filming my family in Theatre productions. I am alway trying to decide how to deal with the spot lights. Should I expose using zebras on the talent with the spots on them and let the rest of the footage be slightly under exposed? I can't keep changing the aperture as lights come on and off. Welcome thoughts from you and/or your fans. S-Cinetone is probably too low an ISO on my FX30's. I filmed the last show at 2500 in order to keep the f-stop up and more of the scene in focus.
youre videos are so helpful!! I haven't even gotten my fx30 yet but I've been watching your videos to help answer my questions ill have in the future! thank you
Thanks. Hopefully my videos will help
Incredibly helpful video - would love to see more about your color grading process in post!
Thank you. I will be making another video about my grading process
do you preserve dynamic range if you shoot in s-log and then apply s-cine LUT in post? What about 8 bit colour in s-cine pic profile? Noticeably worse than 10 bit?
I would have loved to have a gradient curve option because I really like s Cinetone but the highlight roll off is too short
Thank you so much. And by the way: when you use slog3 do you switch legalize on or off on your ninja v?
why models skin is too yellow like turmeric after edit?
Their competition tan made things very difficult. Skin tones in real life are not normal skin tones with tan
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema dat protan tho lol
What software do you use to grade your footage?
My problem with Slog3 using the A7IV is that I found if it’s even slightly overexposed in bright sunlight, it gives the skin tones and unrecoverable weird, pink tone. It’s WAY off every single time. So then, when I try to expose a little lower at some point a A lot of green and noise gets in it. I just found this out at the last wedding. I did where I decided to shoot in Slog3. I don’t like something where I have to be so incredibly careful.
Great video! I have learned so much from your channel!
Great guide to choosing what to use!
Thank you
Great info, I have been playing about a lil with slog-3 since I started editing in DVR recently but the s-cinetone is my go-to for now . I do think in the future I will utilize s-log-3 more often after I learn more about coloring .
That’s awesome. Keep practicing with it
Such a good mentor! Thank you!
Would you say that 24-105 F4 GM is good lens for video? Im thinking about buying it
for the zv-e1 use any iso from 100 to 2000 or 100 only or 2000 only you can't use in between ?
Ive set up S- Cinetone in the normal movie setting in my FX3 and s log 3 (cine ei) in the MR 1,2,3 modes. I’ve never used cinetone because slog 3 is pretty easy to use and I like the workflow
Yeah once you get use to S-log, it’s hard to film with anything else
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema And by setting up a custom preset in Davinci with all the color management settings (input / workspace / output color spaces), its really just as easy as working with Cinetone (I imagine)
Really helpful man. Thank you
Thank you mate super useful.
Does the FX 6 have multimeter mode? I can't seem to find it anywhere...I guess my question is on the FX 6 do I need to use auto exposure to overexpose a stop or 2? Since I can't adjust the ISO in Cine EI mode, is that the only way to overexpose or is adjusting aperture the only way? Sorry a bit confused here.
That was super helpful. Thanks mate 👍
Glad it helped
Congrats Jason for your detailed video! I used to use slog3 but couldn’t find a proper conversion lut so I turned into cinetone which work more than fine. I love the colours you get from your luts but for my s3 do I choose the fx30 lut or the a7iv?
Great video Jason. And I just received my ZV-E1 2 days ago, did you find out if you shot log with embedded LUTs on it, and with “show LUT”, then yes LUT color is on the video when looking at the screen on camera. however when download to computer, it’s still only a plain log video file with no LUT burned in it. 😓😵
And when google with Sony Menu, that’s what it said
“
[Embed LUT File] is locked to [Off] when using SD cards or SDHC cards.”
Then ZV-E1 is only with 1 SD card slot, what does it mean?
Anybody successfully have the log with embed LUT and still showing in Computer?
I will have to try see a fix for this
absolute pro tips
Legend! Thanks brother
Sony always seem to put the best new features in their prosumer cameras, that then v.slowly trickle into the 'professional' line. I've even got a Sony camcorder from about 20 years ago with touch screen focus! (PDx10) That feature has only come to the pro cameras (like the FX6) in the recent years.
How did the meike 50mm t.21 perform?
I came across a wedding Film maker who creates his own Log settings inside the Creative picture profile NT very low contrast and very high shadows….flat like slog but not locked to a native iso and his Luts work amazingly on it. Any experience doing your own flat profile outside of slog for flexible iso?
I use to use HLG and Cine profiles on the A7III but ever since Sony got 10 bit Color it is only highly beneficial to film in s-log
great video! Thank you!
Amazing tips, thanks a lot Jason 🙏
Thank you 🙏
are we still over exposing by 1.7 to 2 on FX3 in sept 2023? Than kyou and love your content!
I thought 70 zebra for skin was the recommended.. thx for sharing about 40 or 90 for overall highlight protection.
Great video. In Davinci, what should I configure when applying CST (or color management) for s-cinetone?
My s-cinetone looks washed out most times and very faded. Not very usable. Do you really not tweak it?
I think HDR video is increasingly important. Virtually all new cinematic content that I encounter is HDR today, and even iPhones can shoot Dolby Vision HDR video. TH-cam's support for HDR leaves something to be desired, but it does exist.
What I would love to see is something like S-Cinetone, but the output should be Rec.2020 PQ HDR or something that is ready for use as HDR video. It annoys me that it's so hard to edit and create HDR content from a professional camera, when it isn't too hard to do SDR video, but both SDR and HDR are easy on an iPhone.
Most S-Log3 LUTs that I've seen are intended to render into Rec.709, not Rec.2020.
How do you even create HDR footage though? Just using HLG PP's or SLOG3 also good? I never made an HDR video so I don't know anything haha
@@SianCKB I don’t have any great advice… my workflow has been pretty hacky, which is why I find this so annoying. I think it should be a lot easier by now.
I just got myself a FX three and it does not have PP7 and PP8 showing i’ve tried everything trying to find it and it’s nowhere to be found. Could you help with that problem?
Great video Jason, thank you.
So you leave your zebras at 95 in both S-cinetone and S-Log 3, even though they clip at different levels? (109 and 94 I think ?) I’ve been setting them higher in cinetone and curious on your take.
Yes I leave them the same. S-cinetone specially I try not to blow out those highlights because they disappear very fast
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema good to know and thank you!
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema If you set your Zebras to 95 in SLOG3, you will not see any zebras. Max is 94+ in SLOG3. If you are still seeing zebras at 95, it's because you have a LUT applied in-camera and is using those IRE values. Please pin a comment to the top so that people don't get confused by this and end up with a bunch of overexposed unusable footage. I did a video recently on my channel explaining how Gamma Display Assist can still be used on FX3 - this is precisely the reason why. There is too much confusion otherwise.
@@RandumbTech i have my zebras at 94+ wheni record in slog3 and set gama assist on so i can see in the screen like its rec709. if i apply a lut in-camera _just for viewing, not to bake it) shouldi chage the 94+ value of zebras?
@@hamurabidios If you apply a LUT in camera, regardless of whether or not you embed it, you will need to use IRE values for that specific LUT. The best way to do it is to turn the LUT on and then crank the ISO so it's massively overexposed. Then increase your zebra value until it suddenly disappears. That is your clipping point.
I didn’t see any picture profiles on the FX6. Does it not have anything else other than S-Log 3 and S-Cinetone?
friend i just get started with davinci resolve, can you create a video how to color grade perfect tones and colors and where are the limits?
Thank you! Awesome video! How do you lock the over exposure to 1.7-2.0? Mine is constantly changing. Sony a7iv
Hey man, great video. I'm coming from the a73 and jumping to a74 and want to know what's the best option for me. Can I stay using the cine 4 pp I've been using as it's semi flat and allows for some editing? I don't want to use slog as my clients don't pay enough to colour grade that much. Will s cinitone be a better option than cine 4?
You mentioned a few times you get a lot more dynamic range but no numbers were given. If for example FX3 has 15+ stops of dynamic range does it drop to 10 stops with S Cinetone? Numbers would be helpful
Your videos really help a lot to understand better. Just one question; can I use your Cinematone LUT in place of S709 in FX30? Will it help? Thanks in advance.
Im assuming S-Cinetone would he a good alternative for quick turnaround videos with little dynamic range needed? Im thinking something like indoor shots only or sunrise/susnet golden hour if outside and no night shots. Otherwise,i wonder if S-Cinetone falls apart in other scenarios.
Will the ZV-E1 in slog3 look the same (image quality wise) like at 3:42 ?? Can't wait to get mine! will be a huge jump from the A6400.
Similar sensor so yes it can look almost the same
For the Sony Alpha 7 IV for the S-Cinetone settings, the two ISO values are top and noise-free: 125 and 500...all others in between should I not use for a perfect picture for videos?
Hi Sir,
I love your contents. I have one doubt which is, I have zv e10 and I love to do wild life photography. Will it be a good combination (Sony ZVe10 with Sigma 150-600 mm lens) for wild life photography and videography???
Please reply me here or else please make a separate video for it.
Thanks
I have a question. Why on my A7IV when I use s-log3 my image doesn't appear as flat as in most videos of the same camera on TH-cam? It seems more contrasty
HLG3 is what I prefer. It can bring shadows very cleanly so you mostly worry about the highlights.
Great
Your all setting for hlg3 please ????
@@electricalservicesmaroc Not really much, what you see is what you get. It is like having S-Cinetone but the dynamic range of Slog2 (not Slog3), but it has way superior details recoverability when under or over exposed but not the clipped details. I tend to over expose by 0.7+ but 0.0 is fine as well depending on the scene. Slog3 tends to break down when not exposed perfectly, which makes it a high risk high rewards situation.
Slog3 uses Rec.709 which is extremely narrow by default, but on S-Gamut3.Cine or S-Gamut/S-Gamut3 which are like roughly 10% wider than Rec.2100/Rec.2020 but you must know how to open up that potential like in DaVinci Resolve Wide Gamut but doubt it'll be as rich in color as Rec.2020/Rec.2100.
@@electricalservicesmaroc Forgot to say that if you wanna deliver your video in Rec.709 you need to convert the video in post or colors might look weird to you.
Yeah I use to use HLG with the 8bit Sony cameras. Worked well for me
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema Yes! Most people didn't give it a chance when 10bit came. SLog3 is great, but HLG3 is much safer with plenty of dynamic range, recoverability, and wide color space to play with.
For a7iii what would you recommend slog 3 or cine 4, does 8 bit play a role in deciding, i need it for wildlife videography.
Thanks in advance
5:37 Doesn't the ZV-E1 allow monitor preview LUTs? Couldn't you just download a false color LUT to the camera and use that?
You confused me with this table. What native ISO should be set for fx 3? If you shoot in slog 3. When do you shoot in flexiball iso mode?
Great video, this was extremely helpful! Your thumbnail def triggered me, lol.
Thank you 😂
Sorry for asking this, but my sony fx3 base iso always stops at 160.. if i turn i down again, it will go auto instead of 100, it doesnt let me turn down to iso 100.. may i know why? hope you can help me out please
Love your videos mate! If I'm a complete beginner and the fastest turnaround time without sacrificing quality what do you recommend? S-Cinetone, Cine2, or HLG? Cheers!
I honestly would go S-Cinetone. HLG and Cine profiles still require a bit of grading to the footage.
I'm finding S Log time consuming to color if the footage is is not shot precisely within the MM expose range I do think the the footage is quite beautiful with S Cinetone out of the box. I'm a pretty good colorist but it's way too time consuming with S Log
So far I have found that with my A7 IV, photos in S log 3 are spectacular, but the video all looks soft. Is there a reason for that? Also can I set the camera up for S Cinetone in video and S log 3 in video with different exposure comp or do I have to change settings each time? Any help appreciated
Great video. Just about to start a studio based two person 3 cam video podcast (FX6, A7S3, and FX30 for wide shot and two closer shots). Would you recommend SLOG3 or S-Cinetone?
that depends how your grading skills are. I would usually suggest s-log due to color matching easier. Plus i am assuming you will have control over the light so S-log can be exposed correctly
Which profile would you recommend for shooting basketball with the A7iii
I have FX30 and use S-Log 3 BUT when it comes to 120fps Cinetone looks so much better. There's almost no noise and I just dont get it because it makes no sense to me.
Hows that even possible?
Unfortunately Cinetone color correction / dynaming range is tragic compared to S-Log 3.
what do you mena, by, s-cinematon iso, "is iso 100 TO 2000" I wast aware it was a range, i thought it was just the two cleanest iso values?
So I have the FX3 Sony, Im a novice shooter, should I just use S-cinetone expose for highlights 95% zebras? just use S-cinetone, and adjust highlights in Post
CINE-EI shoots in slog-3 S gamut 3 cine, it just locks it down at base ISOs and those settings.
Yes
I am a bit confused. I thought when using zebras, we expose for 70 IRE? Why 42?
Awesome, thanks!!
Thanks for watching
Bro always got some fire models 🤣
Hi Jason and thanks for your wonderful videos and job ! I am a wedding photographer and am looking forward to start making videos, as well. I would have one question using S-log 3. In a low light situation (for the "First dance" in a wedding, for instance), would you still overexpose the scene higher than ISO 12800 if needed in order to get the +1.7 or +2 stops exposure (talking about the ZV-E1, second based ISO)or would you keep this scene exceptionally at 00 metering or O+3 if the scene looks OK at iso 12800 ? In fact would you sometimes go up to 16'000 or 20600 ISOS in order to have the scene surexposed by 2 stops or would stop at ISO 12800 with a lower metering (0+3 or 0+7 for instance)? I am only talking about low light situations...It would look strange for me to overexpose a dark scene by 2 stops but would do it if you recommand it.
I'm going to buy an FX-3 soon and watched a lot of footages and tutorials. you shold never shoot in other than the base ISOs (800 or 12800 for the FX-3) That's where you get the perfect image quality with no noise. Play with aperture, ND filters or illuminate the scene rather than shooting in other ISOs. Cheers!
@@GustavisimoG ok but when shooting city landscape at night with very little light if base iso is too dark what can i do to expose normally and not underexpose?>
@@hamurabidios I would play with aperture, or a more luminous lens. As a last resort I would shoot in manual S-log3 and crank the ISO over 12800, Cameras like FX-3 handle high ISOs very well.
It's not possible to alter exposure using ISO
Exposure is only affected by your choice of f stop and shutter speed
Once you have as much light as you can get onto the sensor all you are doing is turning up the brightness along with any noise.
I'm just saying what has already been said, but in different words!