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I just felt that 30 minutes was an ideal length of time. If people see a 50 minute interview they be less willing to commit to listen. I am hoping that we can find the time to do more of these.
I have been teaching Italian for 20 years. Without knowing prof. Krashen, I have been permeating all of my ''classes'' with informality, conviviality, humour, music (I have been writing songs on grammar topics!), literature, etc. The result? They could not have been more flattering. My students are amazingly fluent in Italian. They have definitely ''acquired'' this language, rather than simply ''learned''. Having read prof. Krashen's ideas was a brilliant confirmation of my instinctual methodology as a teacher. Grammar awareness as a product is a secondary phase. Grammar has to be tackled as an invisible ''process''. Obviously, this requires talent and passion in a teacher. And obviously, it is not a given.
How could I ever know these two gentlemen would become my heroes. Thank you for giving me a double-edged sword as both an English teacher and independent language learner. Witnessing that our ability to acquire language persists over time is a serious motivator (please take that as a compliment!). I greatly admire both of you and wish to express my deep gratitude for your contributions to the field.
I understand that Stephen Krashen introduces language in a natural way without the help of grammar. For the beginners of language learning, grammar cannot make them speak the language automatically. Stephen Krashen's theory suggests that Language Acquisition is automatic when it is introduced topically and gradually using the TPRS method. I tried Stepehen Krashen's approach and I found my students learning the second language better than using grammar in the classroom because they do not need to analyze the words but they would just speak automatically.
Learning is when you have to take time and sort through grammatical rules before you can produce sentences, which leaves you unable to actually communicate in a fluent fashion. Acquisition, on the other hand, is when the language comes out of you because it's rooted deep in you and you know how to use it. Learning is what you do for a test and then you forget it after you've taken the test. Acquisition is for life.
I think that question of whether grammar instruction and error correction are useful is worthy of study. If massive input is more effective this could have a major impact on how languages are taught.
Estudio Lenguas Modernas y para mí ver una entrevista entre Kaufmann y Krashem es algo increíble, no me lo podía creer cuando salió el video. Que buen video gracias Steve por tanto que haces de manera espontanea.
Oh My God, this is the most IMPORTANT video I have ever seen in my entire life. You guys are my heroes. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for sharing your knowledge with us. You are AWESOME.
focus and notice. that's what I learned from this interview. Mr.Steve thanks a lot for ya contribution. I keep watching your videos on youtube channel and to be honest I'm deeply impressed by movement you're making. Many years ago I couldn't even imagine that someday I would be able to learn english trough the internet, especially watching videos, and people like you are making the learning proсess much easier.
Steve, it is big honor to listen to such linguists of the past generation and yet they still help us. Gradually, we learn and improve in this way you've explained at all. In addition y'all a huge idea about language-learning so we all try to apply it to our studying that helps me, absolutely!
Wow. Thank you, Steve. Your channel is the main reason why I check TH-cam several times a day. I thank Stephen very very much for what he's done. I watched all videos with him I've found on the Internet. In Arabic, when we say that somebody is very high and outstanding in some field of knowledge, we say something like "such and such is a mountain in ..." I want to say that both of you are mountains in the fields of language acquisition and foreign language learning. Thank you very much again.
Agreed. The great value of reading is that it is an activity that learners can do on their own. If youngster get the reading habit they benefit all their lives. Children may be less keen to read on their own in foreign languages, and that is why it is great to encourage this activity in the classroom. Adults, on the other hand, should read from the beginner stage, as much as possible, in my view.
These guys love what they are doing and see their setbacks and challenges as necessary and welcome. They know the process and know the results. Growth mindset exactly. Do what you love...
Only you can decide. On the one hand it is wise to finish what we start, but on the other hand if you are motivated to learn French go for it. Japanese will still be spoken when you are done, and you can pick up where you left off. In my experience you will not lose much., and in fact your language learning skills will improve the more languages you learn. To judge by your picture you are young, so you have lots of time.
TPR and TPRS are two separate methods. TPR is based on body movements to connect in the language (Total Physical Response). TPRS is Teaching Proficiency through Reading and Storytelling, a 3-step method that begins with verbal storytelling and ends with applying the newly acquired structures to reading. Class time is used primarily for audio input (which students cannot get outside of class) and then homework is reading input, which a student can do on their own.
This was a great interview! I had a lot of fun listening to it. I've been a fan of your youtube channel for a few months now and I am really glad that I discovered it. I find that your tips have confirmed what I found to work best for me when I was learning German, and now I apply those same methods to my Japanese learning experience. Although, language learning is not my passion, and most of it came from necessity, I've learned to have fun with and not see it as a chore, but rather as something to look forward to improving.
Agreed. As an adult, this is something that I did not notice until I read the rule many times. The first time I read the rule, amongst so many others, it made no impression on me. After enough exposure, the rule finally related to something I had experienced.
Awesome interview! Some really interesting ideas from two pioneers in this field. Also, I think this is the first time I've actually heard Krashen speak directly about language learning, though he's cited by pretty much every successful language learner.
I find that learning vocabulary in small chunks with audio alone is best. I employ the same method used to memorize classical music. Solidly learn a small number of words, gradually commit to long-term memory. Then review and review while continuing to add new material in small quantities. Reading comes last. Of course, motivation is a must and reduction of anxiety necessary. Steady progress maximizes the former and reduces the latter.
The problem of finding content that is both comprehensible and compelling is so hard, especially when you struggle to find many things compelling even in your native language, and the things you do find compelling tend to have very difficult language. I think this is one of the reasons that children can often acquire language so fast, they tend to find far more things far more compelling because everything is newer to them and they also tend to care less about not understanding everything and ambiguity. When I was younger I could get way more engaged by things way more easily.
I totally agree with this. Also, I think children's stuff is just a lot easier. I'm learning Bulgarian and I have a book for 8-9 year old kids on the nature, geography and history of Bulgaria. It's full of photos, pictures and short text - really nice to dip into. But finding audio material at that level, especially with text provided, is hard.
I believe in interactive activities like doing role plays, using a lot of visual aids for beginners, discussions that work, etcetera. A lot of reading 😅 can help to expand vocabulary. Starting from the simplest to the most complex.
Yeah, I remember seeing something talking about the way we retain information and actually acting out the task was one of the highest percentages with being shown a demonstrate being 2nd and then reading.
I suggest you read a little more about Krashen's views on the primacy of input. The Internet is full of useful references. There are others as well such as Beniko Mason. You can even go back to Kato Lomb the great Hungarian polyglot to see the importance of reading in language acquisition. To me, a focus on assisted reading and listening, at the beginning, is the most efficient way for most people to improve their skills in a foreign language.
Greetings! So the one thing that I've realized as an English teacher is that learning depends, for the most part, on how much time you spend on studying. After hearing your conversation, I can tell that you both are as passionate about teaching as you are about learning a second language. My L1 is Spanish and in order for me to learn English, which is an ongoing process, I read in English, watch TV in English and submerge myself in anything and everything that has to do with the English language. So my point is that most students, at least in my country, don't have the time or the interest in learning mainly because English is just a means for them to get somewhere professionally or academically and their ultimate goal is just "getting" a certificate. In my humble opinion, theories are great, but it all boils down to practicing. Practice makes perfect! By the way, I really enjoyed your talk. Cheers!
I am studying Letras "letters" at the São Luis College here,and I am passionate by language and I am developing a study to get for the people a more inteligente and usefull way to get languages,and I believe that Doc.Stephen Krashen and Kaufman are the best reference to do this job,
Krashen and agreel that reading is keyt in language acquisition, and that finding compelling content that is also comprehensible is difficult. I said that with systems like LingQ, it is possible to jump to difficult texts, which have 40% unknown words, but in a few months the number of unknown words will dip below 20% and then 10% etc. Staying with content that has only 5% unknown words limits the interest level of content and takes too long. That is what was said.
Cool!! I'm a linguistics student and I read and study Kreshen all the time! Never saw or listened to him though. I love how practical he is, definitely a great influence.
I would highly recommend it. The National TPRS conference will be in Dallas in July 2013. I've sent many TPRS teachers to LingQ to use with their students because we're always looking for new things for our kids to read and LingQ has such a great variety kids can choose what fits their abilities and their interests.
Ma femme et moi nous avons étudiés le français ensemble. On le parle couramment maintenant. On a beaucoup utilisé ces techniques en filtrant des textes, en lisant des livres très facile au début jusqu'aux plus complexes à la fin. Je manque encore des vocab parce que je ne l'utilise pas (la langue) très souvent... Je suis d'accord avec vous par rapport à l'acquisition des langages par des contenus compréhensibles. Toutefois, la grammaire nos a beaucoup aidé au début, particulièrement avec la conjugaison verbale au présent, au passé composé, à l'imparfait, etc., qui est présente dans presque toutes les interactions des débutant en français.
Really, thank you for the video steve! You cant begin to imagine how wonderful and really helpful this video is, its an eye opener! I hope youre always doing well and please please please keep making videos, we love it.
Steve Kaufman mentioned missing certain things while learning a language and noticing them later Stephen Krashen noted that some rules like that can even be on the way out in a language. I can give a great example of something quite similar and simple in English that many people also don´t notice and is changing with native speakers too. It´s the word "couple", which many people think is the same as "a few", but it strictly means 2 (a married couple for example). It´s not just that people learning English get this wrong, but it´s actually starting to change it´s meaning to "a few" in native English speaking countries. I´d ask for "a couple of" something in native English speaking countries and, much to my amusement the clerks would ask back "how many?".
Exactly. Reading also reinforces the visual aspect of seeing how the language fits together. I clearly remember the day on a Paris subway when I realized I was actually reading the book in my hand (Planet of the Apes in French) and not even using my dictionary. Did I know every word? Nope, but I knew enough to understand what was going on. Reading is a way of empowering the individual learner.
Thank you Steve! I decide to let my Japanese slide for a while! I thought I would probably catch up later with wife's help. (she is an Japanese) . There are just so many good french books I want to read.
If you listen to the discussion that David Mansaray hosted with Luca, Richard Sincott, myself and others you will see that many successful polyglots focus on listening and reading in the early stages of their learning. Nevertheless, I am curious, why do you think that reading is not appropriate at the early stages of learning a language?
Great video! My conclusions: 1. In this video, there is NO complete argument whatsoever against grammar. 2. If some grammar helps Krashen learn French or Spanish as he does, then some (or more than some) may help others. 3. If grammar is not an issue for you, that is, you pick up the language without grammar, then do so. Otherwise, learn as much grammar as will help you. 4. Neither Kaufmann nor Krashen are willing to say: "Avoid grammar TOTALLY".
While I was learning French as my third language, I tried to rely on my experiences learning English, my second. I learnt English starting from 4 years old because I liked Pokemon games and they were not available in my mother tongue. By the time I got grammar explanations in secondary school, I could make most sentences without any flawed grammar. I assume I just noticed these things over the years. However, it would have taken me a longer time to really perfect my English if no one had ever introduced me to concepts such as conditionals and the subjunctive, which do not exist in my mother tongue. Therefore my conclusion was always; learn grammar only when you feel something is off between sentences you read and the sentences you write yourself.
@@TofuFiesta Great conclusion. I see it pretty much the same way, I comprehend the input then try to output it myself and then compare my output with a standard. If different, I try to find out why it's different, but at first, like Steve has stressed a number of times, you don't really get the grammar, as in your mind doesn't really understand it completely, and you have to give it time. With time and more input, the grammar should sink in with little to no effort. Regarding English, I didn't have such a need to active learn the grammar since my native language (Portuguese) already had quite a robust grammar. And I love the fact that most of the grammar that we learn can be recycled and used when learning the next language.
@eric gamliel - are you a high-school language teacher? It seems here that you are justifying the imposition of grammar on language learners, when it has been shown to be of secondary importance compared to comprehensible input.
+Taudigrade Whoa, i am trying to learn French too! I also played a lot of Pokemon games and watched the anime as a kid. I also watched a lot of Cartoon Network. By the time i got grammar explanations in school, I could make most sentences without any flawed grammar.
wow!! how did you get Krashen to talk to you?!?? it really amazes me .. I have a bachelor in ELT and I am currently studying a master's on Applied linguistics, and your channel have been recomended in my reading material, and of course I've read a lot about Krashen theories, I think he is brilliant, however sometimes it takes me a while to understand what is really meant in certain theories... your videos help me a lot, thanks!
Many of the presenters will be at both (which is why the dates are staggered). Either one is excellent training and will give you a good foundation of what TPRS is all about, although Blaine Ray will only be at the Dallas one. If you go to the San Diego one, Jason Fritze will be presenting and he specializes in the area of Reading. He'll be a presenter you won't want to miss. I haven't been to the one that'll be in San Diego yet, but I've been to the other. Excellent training!
This is really interesting and I now look back on how we were taught English, Mandarin Chinese, and Filipino in school they were really really different. In our English classes we had grammar, conjugations etc but with Filipino and Chinese all we had were stories and word lists or phrase lists that we memorized and now that I'm learning Portuguese I'm getting more progress with listening and reading stories and making word lists using the Gold list method. I hated English grammar in school by the way but I read tons of books mostly fiction and history because it's interesting to me and I can say that English out of all the other languages is my first language as I can read, write, and speak on the most topics in this language.
I am researcher about learning and language acquisition and is easy to understand that the Stephen Krashen and Kaufman are very importante in this área.
I put a few in English on there. Unfortunately, I've had some health issues and haven't been able to visit LingQ much in the last few months, but I hope to get back into it soon and add some more, as well as get back to my own language learning activities.
chalkbrd, which is more important the conference in Dallas or the one in San Diego in July, which is a lot closer to home for me. I am thinking of going to the latter. I would like to learn more about TPRS to see if we can integrate it with LingQ, especially for beginners.
👍🏻😄such an interesting point of view of learning a new languague and acquirance of skills in a foreign language !my native language is Portuguese but at high school i had learnt english and now i felt l in love for french 🇫🇷and dutch 🇳🇱...flemish in Belgium🇧🇪and german🇩🇪due same colors of flags and some words they totally are different! Languages are funny ..English in America ,English United Kingdom and Australia words and accents ... like portuguese in Brazil and Portuguese in Portugal and Spanish in Latin America and in Spain ...indeed it is a challenge 😄so you must enjoy the jorney !
I think both of them would agree that live interactions of comprehensible input are preferable over a more static form of reading, but they also see value in both. Why do we encourage English-speaking kids to read? To increase their spoken linguistic abilities. This same thing applies to reading in another language. Some of it too has to do with your own learning style. I like seeing the words in a reading format before I use them in a conversation.
I´m a polyglot, having become fluent in English, Danish, Swedish and German as well as my native Icelandic before the age of 20 through living in different countries. I never really studied linguistics or languages theoretically after that and only much later started to try to learn more of them. Now I´m watching a lot of videos of polyglots and how they learn and I almost always agree with everything they say and I´m amazed to see them say things I had already figured out myself. Totally agree on the point of learning grammar indirectly through massive input, totally agree that it´s a waste of time to learn grammar rules before you have any real vocabulary, totally agree that it´s a waste of time to try to master understanding of simple text and that you should rather go through massive input with a 60%+ understanding, because you´ll pick up words semi-consciously through doing it etc.
It is incredible, thank you a lot, i was more than impressed. Es un placer para nosotros, apasionantes de idiomas tener esta oportunidad escuchar a ustedes. Огромное спасибо за ваш энтузиазм в этом нелегком деле, доносить до людей простые истины.
This interview is simply fantastic. My favorite "theorist" if you will Steve and my new close second Stephen! Amazing conversation, glad you shared it with us.
With LingQ, the learner gets to choose their "frustration" level. If they are not comfortable with a high percentage of unknown words, then they have an entire library to choose from that will have easier things in them. The learner can pick and choose the level that best fits their own learning comfort zone. Btw, TPRS has some terrific easy novels for beginners and new ones coming out all the time. A paragraph on the first day was merely the way we started to build their reading stamina.
This has certainly not been my experience. Not only did I enjoy living in Japan, and appreciate the help of many patient Japanese who helped me with my Japanese. a vast majority of the Canadians I have met who lived in Japan thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It seems to me that you have a very distorted view of things.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I said "each in their own way." LingQ is a HUGE deal in the world of the internet and is quite innovative when it comes to language software. I never said Skype was invented by LingQ, but it's used by them in the LingQ system as one way to interact personally with live native speakers. I've worked with various linguistic software and I can really appreciate the hard work and innovation that has gone into the LingQ system.
Hi, Steve! It's really a magnificent job! Thank you so much for that interview! But there is one important question that you haven't covered - OUTPUT and strategies of moving from input to output. May be you'll cover it in another interview with Dr.Krashen?
The two are working in tandem, not being mutually exclusive. Both of these men have pretty incredible accomplishments, each in their own way. LingQ is not about only reading. It is an integrated system where you combine reading, listening, and live interaction with native speakers of the languages via Skype conversations and submitting writing for proofing. 40% comprehension merely refers to the starting point, not after working at it a bit.
My experience: Grammar helped me build a "skeleton" of the language (German), to measure the "breadth" of the language. Reading classic literature, even though I barely knew how to hold a proper discussion, I was forced to understand the language, and I also used a Romanian (native) version of what I was reading. Along this, I also had first-hand exposure to German, but grammar makes one aware of one's holes in his understanding of the language and helps reading a lot.
I believe in the communicative approach, the natural approach and active vs Passive listening and ESP or English for Specific purposes. Also, TPR ( Total Phisical Response) among others. Also, can you talk about the active learner and learner centered vs teacher centered?
Language learning is a big part of my life, and LingQ is a huge part of my language learning, as should be obvious from my channel here at youtube. When I talk about language, I talk about LingQ. If you are not OK with that, and that does not bother me, then I suggest you not visit my channel.
Thanks for the feedback. I have met an American language Instructor who moved in here a month ago, she is learning French and Tounsi ( I am helping her with them) I was thinking about making a case study on her and she accepted. I am hoping to study her comments on the errors her students make and probably compare them with their native and second language (Tounsi, Standard Arabic and French).
I have been doing input only for almost 15 years watching TV and movies but my English speaking is not good enough. I read books but I can't tell if it helps me improve my speaking skills. My listening skill has been improved a lot but I still have problems with speaking although i live in U.S. for many years. So, I wonder if input only method is really a way to go.
Today I'm really immersing myself in the old ELT debates and it's great to be able to put a face and voice to all the authors I'd read in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. Michael Swan, a man I really admire, claims that Krashen made the biggest impact on ELT in the last 40 years, but that this impact was negative. I enjoy listening to both sides of this debate, but firmly believe, after 29 years of teaching, that one man's meat is another man's poison. We all have to find what best suits us when it comes to learning a language, using a mixture of whatever is most relevant for our needs. Maybe today you need a grammar explanation, but tomorrow you need to concentrate on a certain accent or dialect and the next day you have to familiarize yourself with some new words that are entering the language. These affective factors have always worked for me and have always been useful in my teaching. I don't think there is a single hard and fast method. For example, TPRS works for a lot of people, but it doesn't work for me. So why should I use it? Every person finds his own way.
I never learned French even tho I was taught it all thru grade school living on the Ontario-Quebec border. There are a few words I know: frog, dog, cat, and how to ask "Can I go to the bathroom please?" I also know some of the basic verbs and conjugations. I agree with Steve K., French education in Canada is pathetic. Too bad - a second language is a tremendous gift in life. It broadens the mind and opens up opportunities, even if you have no other skills. What a gift. I'm very disappointed my own father did gift us children the blessing of speaking Finnish in the home. I'm very shocked and disappointed that he didn't teach us, especially given his focus on getting a good education.
It depends on the curriculum the teacher is using. Most TPRS materials come with extended readings for students to read at home. Lower levels require more teacher-guided materials. Many TPRS novels are easy enough reading that students can be assigned chapters to read at home. I loved to write stories so I often wrote up my own for the kids to read.
I'm a firm believer in audio learning languages, grammar comes intuitively, and irons itself out....once you find yourself correcting yourself, the grammar is starting to stick...you can learn the outline...but learn the language first 🎯 also, once I learn one word, except for the exceptions... I can now change any word in the language. Italian -ito -ato -ito Male or female Spanish O E or A As , an, Amos, etc...learn grammar in a form of grouping
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I just felt that 30 minutes was an ideal length of time. If people see a 50 minute interview they be less willing to commit to listen. I am hoping that we can find the time to do more of these.
You got it right :D
Grammar is stupid 🔎👍🏻
It's fortunate to live in this time where you have access to master linguists of this generation.
Yes. It is. I should appreciate it. It won't be for long
@@default632 Man I will be dead SAD if either of them die :'(
And access to materials
I have been teaching Italian for 20 years. Without knowing prof. Krashen, I have been permeating all of my ''classes'' with informality, conviviality, humour, music (I have been writing songs on grammar topics!), literature, etc. The result? They could not have been more flattering. My students are amazingly fluent in Italian. They have definitely ''acquired'' this language, rather than simply ''learned''. Having read prof. Krashen's ideas was a brilliant confirmation of my instinctual methodology as a teacher. Grammar awareness as a product is a secondary phase. Grammar has to be tackled as an invisible ''process''. Obviously, this requires talent and passion in a teacher. And obviously, it is not a given.
These words make me happy! Great job:)
Hey! Are you still a teacher? If yes, I'm interesting in having classes with you!
I am hoping that we will have more such discussions on other issues related to language acquisition.
The Way of the Linguist: A Language Learning Odyssey, you can find it on Amazon. It is also available in various languages at LingQ, including audio.
How could I ever know these two gentlemen would become my heroes. Thank you for giving me a double-edged sword as both an English teacher and independent language learner. Witnessing that our ability to acquire language persists over time is a serious motivator (please take that as a compliment!). I greatly admire both of you and wish to express my deep gratitude for your contributions to the field.
Wow, I just listened to 2 masters at this craft... awesome interview.
I understand that Stephen Krashen introduces language in a natural way without the help of grammar. For the beginners of language learning, grammar cannot make them speak the language automatically. Stephen Krashen's theory suggests that Language Acquisition is automatic when it is introduced topically and gradually using the TPRS method. I tried Stepehen Krashen's approach and I found my students learning the second language better than using grammar in the classroom because they do not need to analyze the words but they would just speak automatically.
What language are you teaching?
Any drawbacks you've seen so far?
Learning is when you have to take time and sort through grammatical rules before you can produce sentences, which leaves you unable to actually communicate in a fluent fashion. Acquisition, on the other hand, is when the language comes out of you because it's rooted deep in you and you know how to use it. Learning is what you do for a test and then you forget it after you've taken the test. Acquisition is for life.
The encounter of two legends. Two men I really admired
Two of my inspirations.
I think that question of whether grammar instruction and error correction are useful is worthy of study. If massive input is more effective this could have a major impact on how languages are taught.
Thanks for the kind words. It would be great to feature some of the stories created by TPRS experts at LingQ.
Estudio Lenguas Modernas y para mí ver una entrevista entre Kaufmann y Krashem es algo increíble, no me lo podía creer cuando salió el video. Que buen video gracias Steve por tanto que haces de manera espontanea.
Oh My God, this is the most IMPORTANT video I have ever seen in my entire life. You guys are my heroes. Thanks from the bottom of my heart for sharing your knowledge with us. You are AWESOME.
Yeah it's a pretty interesting video, lot of good bits of knowledge about linguistics spoken.
focus and notice. that's what I learned from this interview. Mr.Steve thanks a lot for ya contribution. I keep watching your videos on youtube channel and to be honest I'm deeply impressed by movement you're making. Many years ago I couldn't even imagine that someday I would be able to learn english trough the internet, especially watching videos,
and people like you are making the learning proсess much easier.
What method of English do you use?
Steve, it is big honor to listen to such linguists of the past generation and yet they still help us. Gradually, we learn and improve in this way you've explained at all. In addition y'all a huge idea about language-learning so we all try to apply it to our studying that helps me, absolutely!
Wow. Thank you, Steve. Your channel is the main reason why I check TH-cam several times a day. I thank Stephen very very much for what he's done. I watched all videos with him I've found on the Internet. In Arabic, when we say that somebody is very high and outstanding in some field of knowledge, we say something like "such and such is a mountain in ..." I want to say that both of you are mountains in the fields of language acquisition and foreign language learning. Thank you very much again.
This interview is a blessing. What a time to be alive. Thank you so much.
Listened to this five times over two years. It’s so good. I’m English and live in France.
I really should come to one of your TPRS conferences. I have the feeling that TPRS should take over language instructions in our schools.
Using meaningful and interesting topics for specific learners can be very helpful and rewarding.
Agreed. The great value of reading is that it is an activity that learners can do on their own. If youngster get the reading habit they benefit all their lives. Children may be less keen to read on their own in foreign languages, and that is why it is great to encourage this activity in the classroom. Adults, on the other hand, should read from the beginner stage, as much as possible, in my view.
Yours was THE book that got me interested in languages and was also my first exposure to a "regular guy" as a polyglot. Thanks for that.
Εξαιρετική συνέντευξη, νιώθω προνομιούχος που την παρακολούθησα.
Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ και τους δύο.
So lucky to see you both , two masters on languages learning. 前辈！致敬！🫡 👍🏻🙏✌️🤓
These guys love what they are doing and see their setbacks and challenges as necessary and welcome. They know the process and know the results. Growth mindset exactly. Do what you love...
Only you can decide. On the one hand it is wise to finish what we start, but on the other hand if you are motivated to learn French go for it. Japanese will still be spoken when you are done, and you can pick up where you left off. In my experience you will not lose much., and in fact your language learning skills will improve the more languages you learn. To judge by your picture you are young, so you have lots of time.
TPR and TPRS are two separate methods. TPR is based on body movements to connect in the language (Total Physical Response). TPRS is Teaching Proficiency through Reading and Storytelling, a 3-step method that begins with verbal storytelling and ends with applying the newly acquired structures to reading. Class time is used primarily for audio input (which students cannot get outside of class) and then homework is reading input, which a student can do on their own.
This was a great interview! I had a lot of fun listening to it. I've been a fan of your youtube channel for a few months now and I am really glad that I discovered it. I find that your tips have confirmed what I found to work best for me when I was learning German, and now I apply those same methods to my Japanese learning experience. Although, language learning is not my passion, and most of it came from necessity, I've learned to have fun with and not see it as a chore, but rather as something to look forward to improving.
This was really awesom .Two famous scholars at once .I'm very excited.my greetings from Algeria.
steve krashen was (and still is!) my hero when I first started teaching myself German "way back" ...
Agreed. As an adult, this is something that I did not notice until I read the rule many times. The first time I read the rule, amongst so many others, it made no impression on me. After enough exposure, the rule finally related to something I had experienced.
Im extremely honored to come across to your channel! So exciting to know the information
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! More students and teachers need to know about this research and those new approaches!!!
an opening mind about language acquition.
great story mr stephen krashen and thank u for sharing mr steve kaufmann
We need more of these conversations. (Kaufman & Krashen)
Awesome interview! Some really interesting ideas from two pioneers in this field. Also, I think this is the first time I've actually heard Krashen speak directly about language learning, though he's cited by pretty much every successful language learner.
Wow, today my greatest teacher is master Stephen Krashen!!
I find that learning vocabulary in small chunks with audio alone is best. I employ the same method used to memorize classical music. Solidly learn a small number of words, gradually commit to long-term memory. Then review and review while continuing to add new material in small quantities. Reading comes last. Of course, motivation is a must and reduction of anxiety necessary. Steady progress maximizes the former and reduces the latter.
Two legends
The problem of finding content that is both comprehensible and compelling is so hard, especially when you struggle to find many things compelling even in your native language, and the things you do find compelling tend to have very difficult language. I think this is one of the reasons that children can often acquire language so fast, they tend to find far more things far more compelling because everything is newer to them and they also tend to care less about not understanding everything and ambiguity. When I was younger I could get way more engaged by things way more easily.
I totally agree with this. Also, I think children's stuff is just a lot easier. I'm learning Bulgarian and I have a book for 8-9 year old kids on the nature, geography and history of Bulgaria. It's full of photos, pictures and short text - really nice to dip into. But finding audio material at that level, especially with text provided, is hard.
I believe in interactive activities like doing role plays, using a lot of visual aids for beginners, discussions that work, etcetera. A lot of reading 😅 can help to expand vocabulary. Starting from the simplest to the most complex.
Yeah, I remember seeing something talking about the way we retain information and actually acting out the task was one of the highest percentages with being shown a demonstrate being 2nd and then reading.
I suggest you read a little more about Krashen's views on the primacy of input. The Internet is full of useful references. There are others as well such as Beniko Mason. You can even go back to Kato Lomb the great Hungarian polyglot to see the importance of reading in language acquisition. To me, a focus on assisted reading and listening, at the beginning, is the most efficient way for most people to improve their skills in a foreign language.
Greetings! So the one thing that I've realized as an English teacher is that learning depends, for the most part, on how much time you spend on studying. After hearing your conversation, I can tell that you both are as passionate about teaching as you are about learning a second language. My L1 is Spanish and in order for me to learn English, which is an ongoing process, I read in English, watch TV in English and submerge myself in anything and everything that has to do with the English language. So my point is that most students, at least in my country, don't have the time or the interest in learning mainly because English is just a means for them to get somewhere professionally or academically and their ultimate goal is just "getting" a certificate. In my humble opinion, theories are great, but it all boils down to practicing. Practice makes perfect! By the way, I really enjoyed your talk. Cheers!
I am studying Letras "letters" at the São Luis College here,and I am passionate by language and I am developing a study to get for the people a more inteligente and usefull way to get languages,and I believe that Doc.Stephen Krashen and Kaufman are the best reference to do this job,
Krashen and agreel that reading is keyt in language acquisition, and that finding compelling content that is also comprehensible is difficult. I said that with systems like LingQ, it is possible to jump to difficult texts, which have 40% unknown words, but in a few months the number of unknown words will dip below 20% and then 10% etc. Staying with content that has only 5% unknown words limits the interest level of content and takes too long. That is what was said.
Cool!! I'm a linguistics student and I read and study Kreshen all the time! Never saw or listened to him though. I love how practical he is, definitely a great influence.
I would highly recommend it. The National TPRS conference will be in Dallas in July 2013. I've sent many TPRS teachers to LingQ to use with their students because we're always looking for new things for our kids to read and LingQ has such a great variety kids can choose what fits their abilities and their interests.
Ma femme et moi nous avons étudiés le français ensemble. On le parle couramment maintenant. On a beaucoup utilisé ces techniques en filtrant des textes, en lisant des livres très facile au début jusqu'aux plus complexes à la fin. Je manque encore des vocab parce que je ne l'utilise pas (la langue) très souvent...
Je suis d'accord avec vous par rapport à l'acquisition des langages par des contenus compréhensibles. Toutefois, la grammaire nos a beaucoup aidé au début, particulièrement avec la conjugaison verbale au présent, au passé composé, à l'imparfait, etc., qui est présente dans presque toutes les interactions des débutant en français.
Really, thank you for the video steve! You cant begin to imagine how wonderful and really helpful this video is, its an eye opener! I hope youre always doing well and please please please keep making videos, we love it.
Steve Kaufman mentioned missing certain things while learning a language and noticing them later Stephen Krashen noted that some rules like that can even be on the way out in a language. I can give a great example of something quite similar and simple in English that many people also don´t notice and is changing with native speakers too. It´s the word "couple", which many people think is the same as "a few", but it strictly means 2 (a married couple for example). It´s not just that people learning English get this wrong, but it´s actually starting to change it´s meaning to "a few" in native English speaking countries. I´d ask for "a couple of" something in native English speaking countries and, much to my amusement the clerks would ask back "how many?".
Thanks so much a very clarifying interview quite interesting. This motivates me More to keep with the natural way to learn italian.
Exactly. Reading also reinforces the visual aspect of seeing how the language fits together. I clearly remember the day on a Paris subway when I realized I was actually reading the book in my hand (Planet of the Apes in French) and not even using my dictionary. Did I know every word? Nope, but I knew enough to understand what was going on. Reading is a way of empowering the individual learner.
Thank you Steve! I decide to let my Japanese slide for a while! I thought I would probably catch up later with wife's help. (she is an Japanese) . There are just so many good french books I want to read.
I hope so.
If you listen to the discussion that David Mansaray hosted with Luca, Richard Sincott, myself and others you will see that many successful polyglots focus on listening and reading in the early stages of their learning. Nevertheless, I am curious, why do you think that reading is not appropriate at the early stages of learning a language?
Great video! My conclusions:
1. In this video, there is NO complete argument whatsoever against grammar.
2. If some grammar helps Krashen learn French or Spanish as he does, then some (or more than some) may help others.
3. If grammar is not an issue for you, that is, you pick up the language without grammar, then do so. Otherwise, learn as much grammar as will help you.
4. Neither Kaufmann nor Krashen are willing to say: "Avoid grammar TOTALLY".
While I was learning French as my third language, I tried to rely on my experiences learning English, my second. I learnt English starting from 4 years old because I liked Pokemon games and they were not available in my mother tongue. By the time I got grammar explanations in secondary school, I could make most sentences without any flawed grammar. I assume I just noticed these things over the years. However, it would have taken me a longer time to really perfect my English if no one had ever introduced me to concepts such as conditionals and the subjunctive, which do not exist in my mother tongue.
Therefore my conclusion was always; learn grammar only when you feel something is off between sentences you read and the sentences you write yourself.
grammar is useless.. h3h3
@@TofuFiesta Great conclusion. I see it pretty much the same way, I comprehend the input then try to output it myself and then compare my output with a standard. If different, I try to find out why it's different, but at first, like Steve has stressed a number of times, you don't really get the grammar, as in your mind doesn't really understand it completely, and you have to give it time. With time and more input, the grammar should sink in with little to no effort. Regarding English, I didn't have such a need to active learn the grammar since my native language (Portuguese) already had quite a robust grammar. And I love the fact that most of the grammar that we learn can be recycled and used when learning the next language.
@eric gamliel - are you a high-school language teacher? It seems here that you are justifying the imposition of grammar on language learners, when it has been shown to be of secondary importance compared to comprehensible input.
+Taudigrade Whoa, i am trying to learn French too! I also played a lot of Pokemon games and watched the anime as a kid. I also watched a lot of Cartoon Network. By the time i got grammar explanations in school, I could make most sentences without any flawed grammar.
wow!! how did you get Krashen to talk to you?!?? it really amazes me .. I have a bachelor in ELT and I am currently studying a master's on Applied linguistics, and your channel have been recomended in my reading material, and of course I've read a lot about Krashen theories, I think he is brilliant, however sometimes it takes me a while to understand what is really meant in certain theories... your videos help me a lot, thanks!
He's a legendary and supremely influential professor, dipshit. And who gives a crack what Bill Gates has to say on any topic?
Awesome!!! Thanks a million for giving us this conversation.
This should have millions of views
Thanks for sharing!
Many of the presenters will be at both (which is why the dates are staggered). Either one is excellent training and will give you a good foundation of what TPRS is all about, although Blaine Ray will only be at the Dallas one. If you go to the San Diego one, Jason Fritze will be presenting and he specializes in the area of Reading. He'll be a presenter you won't want to miss. I haven't been to the one that'll be in San Diego yet, but I've been to the other. Excellent training!
This guys are amazing! I really learn much more english reading then studying gramar. Thanks for the interview.
This is really interesting and I now look back on how we were taught English, Mandarin Chinese, and Filipino in school they were really really different. In our English classes we had grammar, conjugations etc but with Filipino and Chinese all we had were stories and word lists or phrase lists that we memorized and now that I'm learning Portuguese I'm getting more progress with listening and reading stories and making word lists using the Gold list method. I hated English grammar in school by the way but I read tons of books mostly fiction and history because it's interesting to me and I can say that English out of all the other languages is my first language as I can read, write, and speak on the most topics in this language.
I liked it when you mentioned Belo Horizonte :D
it's capital the of my state :)
Hello guri
I am researcher about learning and language acquisition and is easy to understand that the Stephen Krashen and Kaufman are very importante in this área.
Thank you to both of you for such an insightful and intriguing interview.
Fully agree!
Thank you for interviewing this wonderful man.
I put a few in English on there. Unfortunately, I've had some health issues and haven't been able to visit LingQ much in the last few months, but I hope to get back into it soon and add some more, as well as get back to my own language learning activities.
We need part 2 with Stephen Crashen
Alex, I have bought " The Power of Habit" on my Kindle and will read it as soon as I have time.
chalkbrd, which is more important the conference in Dallas or the one in San Diego in July, which is a lot closer to home for me. I am thinking of going to the latter. I would like to learn more about TPRS to see if we can integrate it with LingQ, especially for beginners.
2 Legends were having conversation.
👍🏻😄such an interesting point of view of learning a new languague and acquirance of skills in a foreign language !my native language is Portuguese but at high school i had learnt english and now i felt l in love for french 🇫🇷and dutch 🇳🇱...flemish in Belgium🇧🇪and german🇩🇪due same colors of flags and some words they totally are different! Languages are funny ..English in America ,English United Kingdom and Australia words and accents ... like portuguese in Brazil and Portuguese in Portugal and Spanish in Latin America and in Spain ...indeed it is a challenge 😄so you must enjoy the jorney !
I think both of them would agree that live interactions of comprehensible input are preferable over a more static form of reading, but they also see value in both. Why do we encourage English-speaking kids to read? To increase their spoken linguistic abilities. This same thing applies to reading in another language. Some of it too has to do with your own learning style. I like seeing the words in a reading format before I use them in a conversation.
I´m a polyglot, having become fluent in English, Danish, Swedish and German as well as my native Icelandic before the age of 20 through living in different countries. I never really studied linguistics or languages theoretically after that and only much later started to try to learn more of them. Now I´m watching a lot of videos of polyglots and how they learn and I almost always agree with everything they say and I´m amazed to see them say things I had already figured out myself. Totally agree on the point of learning grammar indirectly through massive input, totally agree that it´s a waste of time to learn grammar rules before you have any real vocabulary, totally agree that it´s a waste of time to try to master understanding of simple text and that you should rather go through massive input with a 60%+ understanding, because you´ll pick up words semi-consciously through doing it etc.
It is incredible, thank you a lot, i was more than impressed.
Es un placer para nosotros, apasionantes de idiomas tener esta oportunidad escuchar a ustedes.
Огромное спасибо за ваш энтузиазм в этом нелегком деле, доносить до людей простые истины.
This interview is simply fantastic. My favorite "theorist" if you will Steve and my new close second Stephen!
Amazing conversation, glad you shared it with us.
With LingQ, the learner gets to choose their "frustration" level. If they are not comfortable with a high percentage of unknown words, then they have an entire library to choose from that will have easier things in them. The learner can pick and choose the level that best fits their own learning comfort zone. Btw, TPRS has some terrific easy novels for beginners and new ones coming out all the time. A paragraph on the first day was merely the way we started to build their reading stamina.
This has certainly not been my experience. Not only did I enjoy living in Japan, and appreciate the help of many patient Japanese who helped me with my Japanese. a vast majority of the Canadians I have met who lived in Japan thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It seems to me that you have a very distorted view of things.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I said "each in their own way." LingQ is a HUGE deal in the world of the internet and is quite innovative when it comes to language software. I never said Skype was invented by LingQ, but it's used by them in the LingQ system as one way to interact personally with live native speakers. I've worked with various linguistic software and I can really appreciate the hard work and innovation that has gone into the LingQ system.
Hi, Steve! It's really a magnificent job! Thank you so much for that interview! But there is one important question that you haven't covered - OUTPUT and strategies of moving from input to output. May be you'll cover it in another interview with Dr.Krashen?
This was 5 years ago but still epic
We have two Ladyzhynkas in my country - Ukraine. So, I'm really pleased to find out that Stephen Krashen may actually originate from Ukraine.
The two are working in tandem, not being mutually exclusive. Both of these men have pretty incredible accomplishments, each in their own way. LingQ is not about only reading. It is an integrated system where you combine reading, listening, and live interaction with native speakers of the languages via Skype conversations and submitting writing for proofing. 40% comprehension merely refers to the starting point, not after working at it a bit.
This was fantastic and I love Stephen Krashen!
My experience: Grammar helped me build a "skeleton" of the language (German), to measure the "breadth" of the language. Reading classic literature, even though I barely knew how to hold a proper discussion, I was forced to understand the language, and I also used a Romanian (native) version of what I was reading. Along this, I also had first-hand exposure to German, but grammar makes one aware of one's holes in his understanding of the language and helps reading a lot.
I believe in the communicative approach, the natural approach and active vs Passive listening and ESP or English for Specific purposes. Also, TPR ( Total Phisical Response) among others. Also, can you talk about the active learner and learner centered vs teacher centered?
Language learning is a big part of my life, and LingQ is a huge part of my language learning, as should be obvious from my channel here at youtube. When I talk about language, I talk about LingQ. If you are not OK with that, and that does not bother me, then I suggest you not visit my channel.
?Dallas in July...ugh. I will look into it.
I agree 100% !!!
TPR(S) classes should be the new reference in the classrooms !
Thanks for the feedback. I have met an American language Instructor who moved in here a month ago, she is learning French and Tounsi ( I am helping her with them) I was thinking about making a case study on her and she accepted. I am hoping to study her comments on the errors her students make and probably compare them with their native and second language (Tounsi, Standard Arabic and French).
Roua krimi How did it go?
I have been doing input only for almost 15 years watching TV and movies but my English speaking is not good enough. I read books but I can't tell if it helps me improve my speaking skills. My listening skill has been improved a lot but I still have problems with speaking although i live in U.S. for many years. So, I wonder if input only method is really a way to go.
Today I'm really immersing myself in the old ELT debates and it's great to be able to put a face and voice to all the authors I'd read in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. Michael Swan, a man I really admire, claims that Krashen made the biggest impact on ELT in the last 40 years, but that this impact was negative. I enjoy listening to both sides of this debate, but firmly believe, after 29 years of teaching, that one man's meat is another man's poison. We all have to find what best suits us when it comes to learning a language, using a mixture of whatever is most relevant for our needs. Maybe today you need a grammar explanation, but tomorrow you need to concentrate on a certain accent or dialect and the next day you have to familiarize yourself with some new words that are entering the language. These affective factors have always worked for me and have always been useful in my teaching. I don't think there is a single hard and fast method. For example, TPRS works for a lot of people, but it doesn't work for me. So why should I use it? Every person finds his own way.
I never learned French even tho I was taught it all thru grade school living on the Ontario-Quebec border.
There are a few words I know: frog, dog, cat, and how to ask "Can I go to the bathroom please?" I also know some of the basic verbs and conjugations.
I agree with Steve K., French education in Canada is pathetic. Too bad - a second language is a tremendous gift in life. It broadens the mind and opens up opportunities, even if you have no other skills. What a gift.
I'm very disappointed my own father did gift us children the blessing of speaking Finnish in the home. I'm very shocked and disappointed that he didn't teach us, especially given his focus on getting a good education.
Never too late to learn a language
@@Thelinguist yes sir, I'm learning Russian right now! And it's actually sticking! :)
It depends on the curriculum the teacher is using. Most TPRS materials come with extended readings for students to read at home. Lower levels require more teacher-guided materials. Many TPRS novels are easy enough reading that students can be assigned chapters to read at home. I loved to write stories so I often wrote up my own for the kids to read.
No but would like to.
I'm a firm believer in audio learning languages, grammar comes intuitively, and irons itself out....once you find yourself correcting yourself, the grammar is starting to stick...you can learn the outline...but learn the language first 🎯 also, once I learn one word, except for the exceptions... I can now change any word in the language. Italian
-ito
-ato
-ito
Male or female
Spanish
O
E or A
As , an, Amos, etc...learn grammar in a form of grouping