I had exactly the same thing from a film director the other day. He replied to my review of his one and only movie which he shot in his loungeroom, and it's one of my favourite movies. So I interviewed him a few days later... I was a bit starstruck haha.
"Keep getting input. Relax. Keep getting input. Relax. Read. Listen. Read. Listen. Make friends." This man makes me want to live! Thank you so much, Matt, for making this interview! It is not just entertaining for me (though it WAS extremely compelling). But every live interview with Stephan Krashen brings out those golden grains of knowledge that help moving on in investigating language acquisition strategies. Especially coming from you makes it so precious. Sincere virtual grateful hugs!
I'm input person. But I don't want to make friends to improve my English. If he/she has same interests with me, I'd like to try it. If the purpose is leaning language, I'd rather pay for it.
@@BosniannMuslim Comprehensible input means that those parts of the input that you don't know are easy to guess the meaning. With the help of various hints like the context, illustrations, realia, gestures, occasional translation or any other hints. If you can not guess then it just means that the input is not comprehensible at all or not comprehensible enough for your level. Also very rarely some people are just closed to the ides that they need to guess. It makes them uncomfortable. They don't have experience of such mental work, they are not confident enough and they don't tolerate the ambiguity. This mindset can be an extra filter for comprehensibility.
“Nobody cares” Man I can’t even express how much this one truth has helped with my output. Dropping the anxiety of making mistakes feels like when Lee dropped the weights fighting Gaara lmao
+An Takabi Yeah dude, look at Sofía Vergara, the Colombian actress, people love her English accent. Americans love Arnold Schwarzenegger's English, so cool. I think accents are cool.
I respect how quick Krashen is to say, "I don't know." Even when he guesses, he bookends it making it clear that he doesn't know, his statement is conjecture, he isn't familiar with studies, etc. I appreciate that he comes from such a scientific background and holds true to the values of scientific studies. Thanks for doing this interview, Matt. I'm sure you were giddy as a schoolboy when he agreed. Who else would you be as excited to interview (or be interviewed by)?
I was about to post the same. My respect for him shot upwards. He never interpreted, he separated his own opinion from peer-reviewed science and he wasn't afraid of saying "I don't know".
I love how Matt says "Oh I was watching these TV shows that really inspired me to learn japanese" and I'm here thinking like "Just say you're a weeb dude we get it." And then Steven just comes out with a "Yeah let's hope we get comprehensible anime soon" Great, HAH!
@@feliche2292 No, he just didn't immediately recognise what Matt was talking about. When Matt posed his theory on how Anki can work within Krashen's framework, he said "Yeah quite possibly."
When you asked the question about pitch accent, krashen said something like, just keep listening and relax and it will come. I have an experience, just one incident, that makes me doubt that it comes without paying attention to it. What happened was this. I was a grocery store where I live in the Netherlands. A woman was doing groceries as well and said something to me in the Dutch language, just about 5 words. She had no discernable accent, but she pronounced the character 't' in a way that only Germans do. So I asked her: "are you German". She was flabbergasted and honestly a bit pissed. She told me she had been living here for over 30 years, had lost all of her German accent, she says 5 words, and I recognize her as German. She was really pissed off. I didn't have the guts to tell her it was only one character. My suspicion is that, having lived here for 30 years, she never noticed the difference between the Dutch way of saying the character 't' and the German way. And according to Steve Kaufmann, noticing is one of the seven rules of acquiring a language. So, I do think you are right. You can get very far with input alone, but you need extra, conscious input, to understand that you are still missing something. Like a native telling you when something sounds off. Had I told the lady what was wrong, she might have been able to correct it. Unfortunately, I chickened out. Well, end of rant, hope it helps.
You didn't chicken out. She did. If she had merely asked, "how did you know?", you might have felt comfortable enough sharing this little detail with her.
Could you tell us aksjakjs Edit: 3 mins in and I found this on wikipedia: Unlike English and German, in Dutch the voiceless stops are unaspirated in all positions: thus while English tip and German Tipp are both [tʰɪp], Dutch tip is [tɪp] with an unaspirated [t]. Is this what you meant?
@@Matheus_Braz Probably this is it. It feels for me as if German people often "spit out" some of their "t"'s when speaking Dutch. Of course that exaggerated.
It's interesting that Krashen says that he doesn't know about acquiring from one's own output. In his writings he hints at it here and there. J. Marvin Brown who came up with the ALG method by basically taking Krashen's hypotheses even further than Krashen himself was adamant that an extended silent period is vital to achieving native-like results. I put it all together and I think what happens is that early on we kid ourselves that we've mastered things that we haven't and this gives us a double whammy of acquiring the mistakes in our own output while simultaneously closing our minds to those elements in the input that we get
From what I've seen, ALG is perfectly in life with the input hypothesis, so I imagine he would be a fan.... I've been meaning to look more into ALG myself!
This conversation of two language acquirers just reminded me that what I was doing is actually right and good. There are several bullet points that I can recall from it: 1)Motivation , self-esteem and anxiety are three major factors in one's language learning success. 2) Not practice but do for pleasure either listening or reading. 3) There are still some hidden stones hidden underwater of language acquisition and even those two guys cannot explain everything. 4) Comprehensible input is a good methodology to learn a language but lack of materials for beginners is a stumbling rock.
Absolutely. Output is NOT something which is forced, it's a natural result of enough comprehensible input. People REALLY need to know natural output is the result of enough comprehensible input.
This is wrong lol. Infinite esl students around me input 5 yrs and still cant talk property even though they seem to understand. Output to output. You don't get better at speaking by never speaking just like doingeverything else in this world.
@@bobjohnson1717 True. Although I think comprehensible input is underrated, I also agree that each skill needs to be practiced separately and in a balanced way. Yes, input might carry my level of comprehension to an advanced level, but it won't be of much help to my production (maybe in writing it will, but in fluent and accurate speech, no). Especially when you are no longer an infant, it is kind of wishful thinking to expect this. We cannot acquire a new language like babies. We are already capable of thinking/speaking/writing in a complex way in at least one other language.
@@bobjohnson1717 It's not wrong you do aquire through input. Even if you can't reproduce it yet it's in your brain. You've aquired it now obviously you just have to get it out through speaking. He means you can't reproduce a language. Without first squiring it. The only way to do so is massive input. Then eventually you begin to speak it. If they can't speak well after five years. There's many other reasons why. Not consistent, not inputting everyday, not speaking often enough, the quality of input, your concentration, exc. This guy can speak great japanese after five years. The proof is in the pudding so to speak.
I love the fact that you say _Stepping ladders_ rather than _Stepping stones_ , it just shows how HIGH up in value this interview is, it's not on a hill, it's on a MOUNTAIN.
I can relate to this idea of passively learning a language through listening. I started learning English in 8th grade because my family moved to a country where all my textbooks were in English even though most subjects were taught in Spanish. No one ever taught me any grammar because my peers were already reading pretty advanced stuff, like Macbeth and Beowulf, and so I was forced to translate everything word by word to survive through middle school and high school. I was too afraid to speak and make mistakes, but when I finally got the courage five years later during a trip to the UK, people asked me where in the States I come from. The only thing I did was read and listen for five years, with a well-worn dictionary at hand.
38:30 - my second ever video on language learning was 2 years ago now, and it was a terrible video... but it's me just doing a French accent for 17 minutes, basically saying how it's actually helpful to pretend to be a French person, that is to actually completely imitate them down to the smallest things like the sort of mistakes they would make in English (if you are still speaking English). I have also found this beneficial when pretending to be a Swede... it's like a warm up. My hypothesis is that if you pretend to be a Swedish person speaking English for like 30 minutes, you get into that frame of mind before needing to worry about the actual difficulty of outputting... And then when you go to output you are more "ready" than you would have been because you feel Swedish, rather than just regular Aussie Lamont speaking Swedish.
"all these things are a RESULT of comprehensible input" - and just like that it all made sense to me. How can you be corrected if you can't already comprehend some of the language? How can you output if you don't already comprehend what you want to output? How can you do anything if you don't comprehend what it is you want to do?? You can't.
Love Dr. Krashen, I'm on my 10th graded reader in Italian. Verdict.... it works! I've been studying on and off for years. My story: Added over 4,200 most commonly used words in Italian on Anki (from a book referred to me by professor Arguelles), studied abroad in Milano for 8 months in college, practiced on and off speaking with native Italian speakers on apps, memorized all verb tenses, and watched (wasted) for 30 mins every day for 2 years of Italian (too advanced and thought it would just 'click' - never did because it was mainly incomprehensible). Been reading graded readers for 2.5 months or so and feel like I've learned and am more 'fluent speaking' from those 2.5 months than my 15 years of on and off learning. Professor Krashen gave me the confidence to not quit, even though I was pretty much done and thought I could not learn a foreign language. My only gripe, not able to find enough graded readers. If anyone has a source, please let me know. My end goal? Is to speak Italian at a C1 level - ce la faro'!
Italian here, you should try comics. Italy has amazing comic artists/writers, a couple of favorites are Gipi and Hugo Pratt. Check out Pratt`s "La ballata del mare salato" and Gipi`s "La mia vita disegnata male", "Appunti per una soria di guerra" or S." (anything by Gipi is great). These are graphic novels meant for adults (in the sense that they are really just literature with drawings), so they might feel a bit complex at first but the drawings may help when things become confusing and the beautiful narrative should be motivating enough to keep reading. My two cents anyway.
Stephen Krashen saying "I don't know" is a big lesson of humility and scientific attitude. Just found this channel, great video. Thanks for doing this. Greetings from Colombia.
I 100% second that. I'm German and learned English in school for 3 years (--> couple of hours a week + home work). After holidays/vacations in English speaking countries I kept to "English only" (Netflix/TH-cam anyone :) ) as far as possible for a couple of weeks, until in 2011 when I stuck to it forever since. This immersion made all the difference! At a certain point I noticed, that I did not "translate" what I've heard back to German anymore, but simply "understood" what I hear/read - this was the moment everything changed. I for sure still make mistakes with speaking/writing - but in terms of understanding there is no difference between English and my mother tongue anymore.Great feeling, but what is more - I look at languages very different now.
This has to be hands down the best interviewing of anyone I’ve ever seen. You did a great job at questioning him, following up, and asking him to clarify. I’ve never seen an interviewer be so curious and so persistent and so polite. You’d researched his ideas on CI, considered them, and then asked him to fill in the gaps. I watched a whole lot of interviews with Krashen before yours and you asked questions that really helped me see his ideas and the current limits of some of them more clearly. You even presented theories that expanded on his ideas. I’ve never seen someone do an interview this well. Amazing job.
We studied Krashen sooooo much in grad school. It's fun seeing the guy as a person, and I'm delighted that he's as kind and humble as I would've hoped.
Thanks for the 5 hours I'm sincerely happy that you could have the honor to talk with stephen krashen and that we could get all the knowledge that you carry with you
Overall I liked the conversation, although it wasn't what I expected. What I didn't like was that a lot of times when Matt tried to place his theories under Krashen's knowledge and experience so that Krashen would somehow judge them based on that, Kashen would act too pragmatically, too strictly scientific. He a lot of times rather repeats his tenets, that he has already tried than ventures to use his knowledge and truly elucidate Matt's scenarios. Moral of the story: I think Matt has really stumbled upon some really novel problems that are outside the scope of Krashen's largely empirical knowledge. But the thing Krashen says about 'club membership' really gives me a lot to think about. I think that's the nugget of this video XD
Think about how many years Krashen has spent chasing alternative theories and comparing their results against his methods. It's like trying to teach someone a new way of mentally multiplying numbers: if they already have a working method for them, they're right in knowing alternative methods may exist, but may also be not as effective, so they're naturally skeptical or resistant to novelty. It's not simply that they're "stuck" on their concepts frameworks, but that they legitimately "know better" from their experience.
I can’t believe if watched this for free. Acquiring this information at home in my bathrobe free of charge would have been unheard of a decade ago. BTW, Dr. Krashen, you should totally change the battery in your smoke detector. Thank you so much!!!
The subconscious self-restraint when interacting with someone from a different "club" than you also works the opposite way when you're a native speaker of a language a foreigner is speaking to you in. I'm an Englishman who doesn't come from the central southern area, so I have a very strong regional dialect, and the difference between speaking to other British people and the non-British is huge. Not even just non-native English speakers; if I'm speaking to an American or what have you, I'll revert to the Queen's English and I'll actually mess up pronunciation because suddenly I'll get a somewhat American twang or overcompensate on pronunciation because my accent leaks in. AND YET, none of these changes occur if there is at least ONE other British person with me. And then the foreigner always comments on my accent. Reasonable self-consciousness I'd say.
I don't like it when people keep saying the input "hypothesis", i mean, when it has been proven with millions of people already...it can't be hypothesis anymore, it's the truth. I learned English with Cartoon Network from 4 years old, i agree with both of you, compelling stories is the key. I have been waiting for this video a lot, and it's finally here...so amazing. Krashen you are my hero, Matt what you say is true, i speak from experience. Just Netflix and chill like a boss, learn languages the lazy way.
How come I just discovered your channel despite having been a Japanese learner for years and years! I'm also an English teacher and constantly argue with colleagues on what's the best way to learn a language. Thanks a lot for the vid. Stephen Krashen had a big impact on my language education...making my life more difficult in class after I was convinced that classroom active learning wasn't very efficient to say the least :(
I want to say "Thank You" to you Matt, 'cause you're the one who introduced me to him and his "Comprehensible Input" theory, Japanese pitch accent, native-like pronunciation, these are all the things that I've known from you; so THANK YOU for all of these things.
I think like anything that is a novelty/new, we feel awkward the very first time doing it. I do think the more we practice or do it it becomes muscle memory. I find knowing vocab(like you all suggest) first is the foundation in which we can build fluency. Once the vocab is solid in our mind, the words will come out pretty easily when constructing sentences. I found trying to learn grammar before knowing many vocab is a struggle. I didn't make much progress that way. It wasn't until I decided to let go of speaking fluent asap, did I start to make progress. I decided to just build vocab. I would insert Hawaiian words in whenever I spoke. Since doing that, I've notice I don't have to think so hard when constructing sentences now, as opposed to before, I would be searching for words. I actually think the grammar part is easy once the vocab is in place. For me, learning my native language(Hawaiian) is a passion and something meaningful to me. This makes the learning process so much more fun and motivating. My favorite quote, which I apply to everything in life, esp the big stuff, 'A journey of a thousand miles begins with one single step.'
I took several classes from Dr Krashen in grad school in the 80's... he only gets better with age. Matt, I think you are unique in your metacognition skills and reflection on your own learning, as contrasted with some hyper-monitor users who master difficult languages as adults. For example, in a way your study of tonality is like an advanced form of Input. You find it compelling to discover so it works.
Graded Readers is so great. I've been reading these simple Japanese stories that I can comprehend and understand without many issues, learning new words and getting used to Kanji. The stories may be dull, but being able to read a language that was once so mystical to me, even if it's such basic language, is a great pleasure and source of motivation to keep going. So even tho I read about mundane stuff like John-San visiting another family over summer vacation and going to a festival with them becomes crazy exciting to me. There should be graded readers for every language, it makes things so much easier.
Hi!!! I'm desperately looking for graded reading material in beginner Japanese, I would be so very thankful if you could tell me where you find the stories you are reading. At the moment I'm reading these books tadoku.org/japanese/en/ Please help, pretty please ^_^
51:22 Your theory about visualising specific grammar aspects as a visual aid for acquisition is amazing. I had huge success doing this myself but I've never heard it explained like this before. Wow. Thanks for the excellent talk... all language learners need to see this!
This is the method I am using and it has been incredibly successful, it completely counteracts the normal study method and I am honestly quite shocked that it has been working so well. I use no english, I use pictures and stories/songs, and after only two months of active listening and learning I am able to listen and understand basic conversations and some stories, it is incredible.
I did not expect to find out that Stephen Krashen is actually really cute XD I mean, that famous video of him explaining comprehensible input is a lot of fun and he's really nice about the "beef" he throws around about teaching methods, but here he seems like a loveable grandpa ready to tell you stories about his life and share his knowledge. I'll be revisiting this interview! Amazing job, thank you so much!
Every time I start to burn out on my Spanish input routine a video on this channel inspires me to re-evaluate, improve my methodology, and continue doing the work. Terrific interview, thank you.
While I agree with a lot, I find part of his core thesis hard to accept, or possibly I just misunderstand it. But having studied many languages myself, I find that learning grammar, at least to the point that it provides a structural scaffold for your subsequent input to "nest" in, is a massive booster to the speed at which you can get better at understanding and speaking a language. Of course random "if this do that" kinda grammar points are pretty useless. Further, I think speaking yourself, making mistakes, and observing the feedback you get from your partner (f.e. a question because something was not clear, a friendly laugh because you accidentally said something hilarious) is absolute KEY to advancing your skills and one of the fundamental processes through which you gain ability. So yeah, of course, without input you got nothing, so that is where it all starts. But to me, input is exactly that, it's just the input part - but the machinery of learning a language involves many more cogs and wheels, and some of them are theoretically optional for sure, but might just help you speed up the process. Just my 2 cents. Anyway, love your channel and great video as always. :)
I think right now the consensus is that grammar instruction works, but not in isolation. Meaning that it works when it's done in response to a question that the learner has. Which intuitively would make sense. If you teach the grammar like that, the learner gets an "a-ha" moment. But if you teach grammar out of context, just with lists upfront on things the learner hasn't encountered yet, then he just won't see the relevance of that information, and will have a hard time incorporating it. The core of his thesis, the "learning vs acquisition" thing, hasn't stood up all that well to the test of time. And that's no diss on him. He came up with these ideas in the 60s/70s. But a lot has happened since then, and in particular in the last 2 or 3 decades where cognitive sciences have advanced in large strides. His idea was that grammar instruction helps, but only in the "monitoring" function, and it didn't help at all for the spontaneous production of speech. Namely it helps only for when you are consciously trying to be careful about how you phrase things. Brain imaging tells a different story, at least in the sense that neural systems related to speech production and neural systems related to executive functions are connected in a wide variety of ways. It's not all wrong, but it's just rather simplistic in light of current research. For instance, he says that the brain is good at acquiring language, but not so good at learning about language. That's true only in the sense that the brain is naturally geared to acquire language, but it is not naturally geared to learn explicit grammar rules. The problem is that he infers from that that anything we do that our brains aren't naturally geared to do, well, that will have less potency, less value in the learning/acquisition process. But here's the thing: our brains also aren't naturally geared to learn how to read either. There's nothing natural about that. It's a cultural invention, one that children can't learn without explicit instruction. In other words, literacy is "learned", not "acquired". This learned thing, literacy, completely rewires how the brain processes language. So, it's a bit disingenuous to then say that our brains aren't all that good at "learning" but to leave out just how powerful learning can be. Literacy is a prime example of something that you "learn", but that is so potent it completely changes how you "acquire". And tbh, I'm not entirely sure how Krashen promotes reading so much without having ever addressed that irony.
The thing is, the actual speaking in your examples is technically not what you're learning from, but rather they became a vehicle to getting input in the form of the other person's reaction. I think he means that just speaking the words to yourself in isolation is not a means of acquisition
Funnily enough, this video appeared in my feed while I was reading Krashen’s 1981 book on second language acquisition. Somehow the google gods knew what I was looking for. The truth is that I spent about twenty years of my teaching career resisting Krashen’s ideas; but resistance was futile ha ha. I loved grammar and had attributed my own language success with having studied it so fiercely. Now I realize that I was simply using all of the grammar reading as a type of comprehensible input. There was no way to aim all that grammar in spontaneous speech.
Awesome questions! You can tell how much Matt respects Steven Krashen and that he really thought about what to ask. On the edge of my seat the whole hour 🙂
Wow, Matt. This is one of your best videos ever, and that's not a low bar. You did a great job as an interviewer with a legendary subject. Congratulations. I hope this video gets a million views.
I think that aktively speaking a language on a regular basis can 1) boost your confidence in your language skills and therefore indirectly improve your fluency b) improve your pronounciation (because it activates your mouth's muscle memory). Just a hypothesis. :_)
Fantastic interview! I dont think I have encountered a more clear and concise explanation of Stephen Kraschens theories before. And hearing him theorize and repsond to some of the points you made from your own language acquisition journey was fascinating! Thank so you so much Matt. Hope you have a great evening.
I am a language teacher in a regular 'bilingual (but not really)' school in latin america. I teach following Krashen's priniciples, the rest of my colleagues with grammar grammar grammar and my boss (as lovely and motivating a person as she is and who loves the way I teach) still insists on grammar syllabuses and course books. The thing I notice is that some students learn (acquire) english well (obviously from the delivery of the grammar in english) while others do not (because learning grammar as if it were a language learning method is boring as sh!t) and those students simply think they can't do languages because they fail at grammar. The irony is despite their negative opinions of themselves because of their difficulties with grammar they actually do learn and don't realize it. They just fail the grammar tests.
I never realized the importance of being comfortable in your language, and feeling like you belong in the language. My mom when she speaks Norwegian (Her native langauge is Cebuano, mine is Norwegian) she comes of as more natural, but the moment she speaks with a stranger you can feel the uncertainty in what she's saying, her accent gets stronger, her words are more simple, and my mom is a very extroverted person so it's not like this is because of nervousness. I wonder if there is any good way to sound native in every environment, because true native people will always sound native no matter the situation (with very minor hiccups here and there of course). Also Steven Krashens excitement for reading as a general tool to improve so many aspects of ones life was really interesting to listen too, I whole hardheartedly agree with all of it. Legendary interview Matt!
This is really interesting. My first language was Spanish, but I was born and raised in the US with older siblings, so English had always been my strongest language. I never studied Spanish and rarely spoke it, but my whole life I was surrounded by Spanish because of my parents, family gatherings, church, etc. Now that I’m 26 and my job requires me to speak Spanish, I became fluent within a few months. Mind you I rarely used Spanish, I spoke here and there when I traveled to Spanish speaking countries and somehow I managed to speak okay. This past year I really focused on touching up my grammar but all in all this theory makes a lot of sense!
I was immediately engrossed in this mans ideas and voice. Truly interesting and he has truly contributed amazing ideas to language community!!! Thank you Matt!!!
This is the best video on the internet, i’m watching for the 2nd time right now. Thank you for making this happen! I would say make a part 2, but i feel like the key points have been addressed.
Love an exoert who is willing and open to lead an answer with "I don't know..." before moving into their own speculation. Makes me want to listen to them more.
A comment on accent and “joining the club” so to speak: The overwhelming majority of the Spanish language content I consume is Mexican. I am inundated with Mexica media from TH-cam to television programs to music. In the beginning of my studies, I was exposed to a ton of European Spanish on account of my using Assimil. However, when I go to speak it is with a distinctly Puerto Rican accent. Why is this? Well, if what Krashen has said in this interview is true, it seems that it has to do with the fact that Puerto Rico is the “team” I joined. My wife and consequently her family is Puerto Rico and despite mostly speaking with them in English, the PR accent has come to dominate (though I still use Mexican slang). Completely anecdotal of course, but it is an interesting correlation and seems to agree with his assertion.
It is great listening to this professor, and it has been an honour having been in his mailing list...reading is the key to language acquisition and Doctor Stephen Krashen has been an important inspiration for me during my process of improving my understanding of language acquisition. He is a can-do person who has left his print for future generations of teachers and students as well.
Oh, did you hear any news recently? I don't know him very well, but I got really interested in the Spanish book collection he mentions at 17:36. The entire interview is amazingly interesting.
This is a great interview. It's super cool how Stephen is so scientific he won't even state his opinions on something before making it really clear it's a hunch or something. Great guy.
Wow this is the first time I actually heard Stephen Krashen speak but he is such an awesome guy in person. So inspiring. Had a blast listening to this interview- thank you!
50:50 Contrarily, I spent some time living in the US at a very early age. Although I would live the next 20 years in my native non-English speaking country, all throughout school I associated with an identity of being partially American. Every time I went back to the continent this feeling of being part American deep down was there in the back of my mind. Thus I was never uncomfortable about actively speaking. But in actuality my learning situation wasn't very different from my peers. I didn't know much English grammatically starting school at the age of 7, nor did I study writing particularly hard. But being consciously aware of my past fuelled my interest. I may have acquired language elsewhere, or more strongly, because of this. Even if today my relationship with American culture is at an all-time low, convincing myself that we're not somehow associated would be very difficult to do. The "club membership" appears somehow hardwired because of important memories of my past.
Amazing interview! Thank you very much for making this possible. It’s always interesting to listen to such an intelligent person. Mr Krashen is a fricking legend!
Really enjoyed this one, Matt. I never tire of watching people who are much, much smarter than me, and Krashen is one of those people. Both of you have given me a lot to think about as I enter my third year of learning Japanese. Congrats on this interview.
I loved the final, those last words were inspiring, for me, Krashen is a fundator and a very important figure in these places... thank you for making this amazing interview
You two are such an inspiration! My Japanese journey has been a long one, coming up 8 years living in Japan now. I would say I'm fluent but, I really love the idea of "joining the club" of the language. Being seen as part of the group is such an essential part of Japanese life and culture, the language is so wrapped up in culture in Japan too. I teach English, and it is so useful to know how we acquire language, and apply methods like ANKI and the things you two are talking about in my class. I would love to hear your opinions on trying to inspire students who don't want to learn a language. I have built up lots of techniques to make the language learning process more interesting for my students and it seems Dr. Krashen is very much on the side of keeping things fun too. Looking forward to your future videos Matt. Incredible work.
In the past year, I read a million words of Japanese novels, from popular thrillers to art literature. And shadowed a dozen audiobooks at 0.6 or 0.7 speed. I will only look up words after they reappear, and only in a 漢和辞典. My reading speed has quadrupled, to 24 to 30 pages per hour. For listening, I recommend shadowing (repeating aloud a split second behind) novels read clearly by top voice talents, as slow as necessary to keep up and imitate every nuance. You won’t learn to “mumble naturally” like hard-to-follow movie dialogue, but super-naturally, so that your every word in understood by everyone.
@@osamahabbas3443 9 paperbacks, 15mm thick, about 5000 pages. I learned Japanese 1975-1980. And in the 1990s I managed translation services. But moved to the countryside and changed jobs. I learned the (comparatively easy) Scandinavian languages well enough to enjoy great thrillers, simply by reading and shadowing dozens of books above my head. Recently I’ve taken up Japanese again. But I have never studied grammar or kanji for JLPT. I mostly resisted looking up words if I could guess from context and enjoy the stories. I only looked up kanji after I read them repeatedly, and they began to bother me so, that I already knew what they must mean, and I knew I would recall the pronunciation forever after looking once. But after all that reading, I recognize most kanji on my novels. So now I do what I used to avoid, and look up every kanji I don’t recognize.
@@DougalBayer Thank you. I also don't study grammar, I just read but I look up words . I'm a bit impatient because I want to learn other languages as well, but I know its a long word. Thank you for replying, just one more question any tips to improve my listening?
@@osamahabbas3443 I should tell you that I am a Speech-Language Pathologist and have studied acoustic phonetics in depth. I believe strongly in audio shadowing, by listening to audiobooks of full length novels or nonfiction works, read by professional voice talents, slowed down considerably, through headphones, and repeating aloud a split second later. If I have the mp3 sound files, I use a hi-res sound editor (SoX) to 1) hi-bias filter (reduce the low frequency vocal “carrier wave” boom below 500Hz to -6 or -12 dB, and amplify the “speech information” range 1500-4000 Hz +6dB 2) compand (compress loudest sounds 0dB>-12dB and expand/amplify midrange -36dB>-24dB, to enhance quick consonants relative to overly loud vowels), and 3) resample the playback rate to between 0.6 and 0.8 (as slow as I need be able to perceive and imitate every subtly of tongue position, rhythm and pitch). If I’m streaming (AudioBooks.jp), at minimum I adjust the graphic equalizer or choose the “vocal” filter setting, and slow the rate. Some language teachers will tell you not to listen and speak slowly, but every musician or martial arts practitioner knows the value of slow, accurate practice. Later, you can repeat at a higher speed and less filtering, until you are ready for street speech. But as beginners, we cannot learn from rapid natural conversation or noisy audio. I enjoy classic Japanese cinema, but it never helped my Japanese. I think that shadowing should run ahead of any other study, even at the beginning. Otherwise, how can you even learn one word, before your ear and tongue have acquired the new sound system? My approach is still meaning based (because I am daydreaming a story while I listen). But the foundation of the speech pyramid is the true sounds of a language, and the patterns they form, from syllables to words to phrases to sentences to stories.
I learned Japanese primarily by reading lots of novels. It took many years, but worked great, so I completely agree. Now I'm learning Cantonese and the spoken language is different from the written. It's quite a challenge when you know how you want to learn, but have to find alternatives.
@@rimenahi I learned grammar, pronunciation, and the basics of Kanji through college classes in the US and Japan. I also spent a lot of time talking to people in Japanese during college, which was the first 5 years I was learning the language. For reading, I started trying to read manga at the beginning until I could finally understand the story and get through a volume in a few days. I started reading books as soon as I got to where I only needed to look up a word every other sentence or so. I just looked everything up with an electronic dictionary. After college, I started trying to take the JLPT 1, and it took a few tries, but all I did in between with the language is read novels. For the next 10 years I only used the language for reading novels, then about 5 years ago I became able to get access to audio books. After listening to about 5 or 6 audiobooks, I could finally understand most TH-camrs. Comedy and informal conversations between other people, especially in a dialect, are still hard to understand. So reading novels isn’t the only thing I did to learn the language by any means, but I did it more than anything else. I feel like when I got to the point I could read the speed that people talk and then mapped it to native speaking with audiobooks, is when I finally became able to process the language with my brain without thinking about it. So I think reading was the essential key for actually acquiring the language for me. I didn’t have RTK back when I started, but if I were starting again with today’s resources I would certainly try it, because I think it could help me start reading earlier.
As a chinese guy, i think the easiest way to learn cantonese is to learn mandarin and then watch a lot of hong kong cantonese drama, you dont have to learn the writing, you will automatically understand from your mandarin vocabulary, most of it that is.
That was the best language learning discussion I have ever heard. 5 times in a row Matt raises such good beautifully expressed questions, and they go about making hypothesis around it and they just communicate so well and so clearly. I am absolutely stunned that was so inspirational
Funny story: this interview happened because Krashen randomly replied to one of my old tweets! 😅 twitter.com/skrashen/status/1303011485367427072
"I run a TH-cam channel where I talking about learning languages through input"
Language 100
I had exactly the same thing from a film director the other day. He replied to my review of his one and only movie which he shot in his loungeroom, and it's one of my favourite movies. So I interviewed him a few days later... I was a bit starstruck haha.
That's hilarious!
Mr Krashen surely?
This is cool 👏
Whenever he leans forward and rumbles his voice I can feel myself acquiring an ancient power.
Language acquisition powers level up!
Ok
HAHAHAHAAH
*TM101 Language Acquisition*
😂😂😂😂
"We've only been married 55 years so it's still kind of exciting". That the cutes thing I've heard in a while.
I wonder if he visited the islands with old Noam..
This is that attitude that allowed their marriage to last that long
"Keep getting input. Relax. Keep getting input. Relax. Read. Listen. Read. Listen. Make friends." This man makes me want to live! Thank you so much, Matt, for making this interview! It is not just entertaining for me (though it WAS extremely compelling). But every live interview with Stephan Krashen brings out those golden grains of knowledge that help moving on in investigating language acquisition strategies. Especially coming from you makes it so precious. Sincere virtual grateful hugs!
It was a great interview. He really gave some fun and interesting stories :) so much that we can learn from.
I'm input person. But I don't want to make friends to improve my English. If he/she has same interests with me, I'd like to try it. If the purpose is leaning language, I'd rather pay for it.
But we also need to translate right? We cant just listen and read the words we dont know the meaning
@@BosniannMuslim Comprehensible input means that those parts of the input that you don't know are easy to guess the meaning. With the help of various hints like the context, illustrations, realia, gestures, occasional translation or any other hints. If you can not guess then it just means that the input is not comprehensible at all or not comprehensible enough for your level. Also very rarely some people are just closed to the ides that they need to guess. It makes them uncomfortable. They don't have experience of such mental work, they are not confident enough and they don't tolerate the ambiguity. This mindset can be an extra filter for comprehensibility.
@@ComprehensibleRussian oh ok, thanks for clarifying.
THE MAN HIMSELF WITH THE MAN HIMSELF
*The men.*
@@rimenahi themselves
omg i just made a comment with exactly the same joke and thought i was being funny and original :(
He's talking to the C.E.O of immersion
Lol
“Nobody cares”
Man I can’t even express how much this one truth has helped with my output. Dropping the anxiety of making mistakes feels like when Lee dropped the weights fighting Gaara lmao
+An Takabi
Yeah dude, look at Sofía Vergara, the Colombian actress, people love her English accent. Americans love Arnold Schwarzenegger's English, so cool. I think accents are cool.
Can you please tell me the time code when he says that? I can’t find it . Nobody cares etc etc
Eyo fellow person of culture
@@klirmio21 His comment about not worrying about mistakes in output is a story he shared from the 10:00 until 12:10 minute mark 👍🏼
That was a nice reference, i liked it :)
I respect how quick Krashen is to say, "I don't know." Even when he guesses, he bookends it making it clear that he doesn't know, his statement is conjecture, he isn't familiar with studies, etc. I appreciate that he comes from such a scientific background and holds true to the values of scientific studies.
Thanks for doing this interview, Matt. I'm sure you were giddy as a schoolboy when he agreed. Who else would you be as excited to interview (or be interviewed by)?
I was about to post the same. My respect for him shot upwards. He never interpreted, he separated his own opinion from peer-reviewed science and he wasn't afraid of saying "I don't know".
Yes I really appreciate the honesty too. Saying I don't know shows a lot about a person's integrity in my opinion.
Agreed!!
I love how Matt says
"Oh I was watching these TV shows that really inspired me to learn japanese"
and I'm here thinking like
"Just say you're a weeb dude we get it."
And then Steven just comes out with a
"Yeah let's hope we get comprehensible anime soon"
Great, HAH!
😊m....😊😊n😊
😊 4:07 😊me j😊bn😅😊😊😊
53:40 "I'm guessing you've probably heard of Anki?"
Krashen: *knowing smile*... "No."
I actually had to pause this to laugh.
Yeah, it was funny :))
Cool to see you here too. Love your channel by the way :)
Is he against Anki?
@@feliche2292 No, he just didn't immediately recognise what Matt was talking about. When Matt posed his theory on how Anki can work within Krashen's framework, he said "Yeah quite possibly."
@@daysandwords oh, thanks bro
The madlad finally made it.
I can't believe it's already been almost 3 years since you started picking up traction this is crazy.
Since he made that 3 hour vid lol. At first i was really discouraged after watching it, but then i got motivated even more.
When you asked the question about pitch accent, krashen said something like, just keep listening and relax and it will come. I have an experience, just one incident, that makes me doubt that it comes without paying attention to it. What happened was this. I was a grocery store where I live in the Netherlands. A woman was doing groceries as well and said something to me in the Dutch language, just about 5 words. She had no discernable accent, but she pronounced the character 't' in a way that only Germans do. So I asked her: "are you German". She was flabbergasted and honestly a bit pissed. She told me she had been living here for over 30 years, had lost all of her German accent, she says 5 words, and I recognize her as German. She was really pissed off. I didn't have the guts to tell her it was only one character. My suspicion is that, having lived here for 30 years, she never noticed the difference between the Dutch way of saying the character 't' and the German way. And according to Steve Kaufmann, noticing is one of the seven rules of acquiring a language. So, I do think you are right. You can get very far with input alone, but you need extra, conscious input, to understand that you are still missing something. Like a native telling you when something sounds off. Had I told the lady what was wrong, she might have been able to correct it. Unfortunately, I chickened out. Well, end of rant, hope it helps.
You didn't chicken out. She did. If she had merely asked, "how did you know?", you might have felt comfortable enough sharing this little detail with her.
Could you tell us aksjakjs
Edit: 3 mins in and I found this on wikipedia:
Unlike English and German, in Dutch the voiceless stops are unaspirated in all positions: thus while English tip and German Tipp are both [tʰɪp], Dutch tip is [tɪp] with an unaspirated [t].
Is this what you meant?
@@Matheus_Braz Probably this is it. It feels for me as if German people often "spit out" some of their "t"'s when speaking Dutch. Of course that exaggerated.
@@AJBonnema thx bro
It's interesting that Krashen says that he doesn't know about acquiring from one's own output. In his writings he hints at it here and there. J. Marvin Brown who came up with the ALG method by basically taking Krashen's hypotheses even further than Krashen himself was adamant that an extended silent period is vital to achieving native-like results.
I put it all together and I think what happens is that early on we kid ourselves that we've mastered things that we haven't and this gives us a double whammy of acquiring the mistakes in our own output while simultaneously closing our minds to those elements in the input that we get
Guys, this.
Just because of this video 2020 is not a total nightmare.
The myth and the legend finally meet each other.
😂😂😂😂
Great video Matt! Curious how Dr. Krashen sees the ALG method relating to comprehensible input and whether he's a fan or not.
lol
From what I've seen, ALG is perfectly in life with the input hypothesis, so I imagine he would be a fan.... I've been meaning to look more into ALG myself!
Check out the channel Dreaming Spanish. The videos teach Spanish using the ALG method from beginner to advanced level.
@@jem7316 I love dreaming Spanish! Hopefully we get a dreaming japanese, and other "dreaming channels" soon
@@guerererererererererererer2806
Absolutely!
my life has led up to this moment
Agreed.
bạn đã thử nó chưa
This conversation of two language acquirers just reminded me that what I was doing is actually right and good. There are several bullet points that I can recall from it:
1)Motivation , self-esteem and anxiety are three major factors in one's language learning success.
2) Not practice but do for pleasure either listening or reading.
3) There are still some hidden stones hidden underwater of language acquisition and even those two guys cannot explain everything.
4) Comprehensible input is a good methodology to learn a language but lack of materials for beginners is a stumbling rock.
Here's hoping that that this information becomes much more mainstream and people stop agonising over langauge so much ✊
Comprehensible Input is still underrated.
_Let's change this!_ 💪😃
Absolutely. Output is NOT something which is forced, it's a natural result of enough comprehensible input. People REALLY need to know natural output is the result of enough comprehensible input.
This is wrong lol. Infinite esl students around me input 5 yrs and still cant talk property even though they seem to understand. Output to output. You don't get better at speaking by never speaking just like doingeverything else in this world.
@@bobjohnson1717 True. Although I think comprehensible input is underrated, I also agree that each skill needs to be practiced separately and in a balanced way. Yes, input might carry my level of comprehension to an advanced level, but it won't be of much help to my production (maybe in writing it will, but in fluent and accurate speech, no). Especially when you are no longer an infant, it is kind of wishful thinking to expect this. We cannot acquire a new language like babies. We are already capable of thinking/speaking/writing in a complex way in at least one other language.
True!
@@bobjohnson1717 It's not wrong you do aquire through input. Even if you can't reproduce it yet it's in your brain. You've aquired it now obviously you just have to get it out through speaking. He means you can't reproduce a language. Without first squiring it. The only way to do so is massive input. Then eventually you begin to speak it. If they can't speak well after five years. There's many other reasons why. Not consistent, not inputting everyday, not speaking often enough, the quality of input, your concentration, exc. This guy can speak great japanese after five years. The proof is in the pudding so to speak.
Haha no wayy, somehow I feel like all the other interviews were just stepping ladders to get to this one. He's truly made it lads
I love the fact that you say _Stepping ladders_ rather than _Stepping stones_ , it just shows how HIGH up in value this interview is, it's not on a hill, it's on a MOUNTAIN.
Excellent lighting on Matt's face.
It's been a long time coming
@@mattvsjapan lmao
I can relate to this idea of passively learning a language through listening. I started learning English in 8th grade because my family moved to a country where all my textbooks were in English even though most subjects were taught in Spanish. No one ever taught me any grammar because my peers were already reading pretty advanced stuff, like Macbeth and Beowulf, and so I was forced to translate everything word by word to survive through middle school and high school. I was too afraid to speak and make mistakes, but when I finally got the courage five years later during a trip to the UK, people asked me where in the States I come from. The only thing I did was read and listen for five years, with a well-worn dictionary at hand.
Bro, I admire you 😮❤❤
38:30 - my second ever video on language learning was 2 years ago now, and it was a terrible video... but it's me just doing a French accent for 17 minutes, basically saying how it's actually helpful to pretend to be a French person, that is to actually completely imitate them down to the smallest things like the sort of mistakes they would make in English (if you are still speaking English).
I have also found this beneficial when pretending to be a Swede... it's like a warm up. My hypothesis is that if you pretend to be a Swedish person speaking English for like 30 minutes, you get into that frame of mind before needing to worry about the actual difficulty of outputting... And then when you go to output you are more "ready" than you would have been because you feel Swedish, rather than just regular Aussie Lamont speaking Swedish.
"all these things are a RESULT of comprehensible input" - and just like that it all made sense to me.
How can you be corrected if you can't already comprehend some of the language?
How can you output if you don't already comprehend what you want to output?
How can you do anything if you don't comprehend what it is you want to do??
You can't.
Love Dr. Krashen, I'm on my 10th graded reader in Italian. Verdict.... it works! I've been studying on and off for years. My story: Added over 4,200 most commonly used words in Italian on Anki (from a book referred to me by professor Arguelles), studied abroad in Milano for 8 months in college, practiced on and off speaking with native Italian speakers on apps, memorized all verb tenses, and watched (wasted) for 30 mins every day for 2 years of Italian (too advanced and thought it would just 'click' - never did because it was mainly incomprehensible). Been reading graded readers for 2.5 months or so and feel like I've learned and am more 'fluent speaking' from those 2.5 months than my 15 years of on and off learning. Professor Krashen gave me the confidence to not quit, even though I was pretty much done and thought I could not learn a foreign language. My only gripe, not able to find enough graded readers. If anyone has a source, please let me know. My end goal? Is to speak Italian at a C1 level - ce la faro'!
Italian here, you should try comics. Italy has amazing comic artists/writers, a couple of favorites are Gipi and Hugo Pratt. Check out Pratt`s "La ballata del mare salato" and Gipi`s "La mia vita disegnata male", "Appunti per una soria di guerra" or S." (anything by Gipi is great). These are graphic novels meant for adults (in the sense that they are really just literature with drawings), so they might feel a bit complex at first but the drawings may help when things become confusing and the beautiful narrative should be motivating enough to keep reading. My two cents anyway.
@@lucavitale973 Grazie assai, Luca! Gettero' un'occhiata ai questi fumetti.
Stephen Krashen saying "I don't know" is a big lesson of humility and scientific attitude.
Just found this channel, great video. Thanks for doing this. Greetings from Colombia.
Holy shit dude. I can't even imagine how you must've felt while doing this. I'm really happy for you, man.
I 100% second that. I'm German and learned English in school for 3 years (--> couple of hours a week + home work). After holidays/vacations in English speaking countries I kept to "English only" (Netflix/TH-cam anyone :) ) as far as possible for a couple of weeks, until in 2011 when I stuck to it forever since. This immersion made all the difference! At a certain point I noticed, that I did not "translate" what I've heard back to German anymore, but simply "understood" what I hear/read - this was the moment everything changed. I for sure still make mistakes with speaking/writing - but in terms of understanding there is no difference between English and my mother tongue anymore.Great feeling, but what is more - I look at languages very different now.
That was a fun interview. I'm glad MVJapan was able to ask some of his most pressing questions to Stephen Krashen
This has to be hands down the best interviewing of anyone I’ve ever seen. You did a great job at questioning him, following up, and asking him to clarify. I’ve never seen an interviewer be so curious and so persistent and so polite. You’d researched his ideas on CI, considered them, and then asked him to fill in the gaps. I watched a whole lot of interviews with Krashen before yours and you asked questions that really helped me see his ideas and the current limits of some of them more clearly. You even presented theories that expanded on his ideas. I’ve never seen someone do an interview this well. Amazing job.
Legendary interview about to happen, badass job for getting this far, Matt.
We studied Krashen sooooo much in grad school. It's fun seeing the guy as a person, and I'm delighted that he's as kind and humble as I would've hoped.
I'm do glad people are out there studying his ideas
Wow, i never expected this to happen but
Congrats on having an interview with Stephen Krashen
Thanks for the 5 hours
I'm sincerely happy that you could have the honor to talk with stephen krashen and that we could get all the knowledge that you carry with you
@@justsomeguywithoutamask9602 Ok.
congrats on removing the mask
This is one of the best interviews you have ever made, thanks so much Matt!
this is going to be one of the most brilliant video in the youtube history
Norman BT'S That's for sure.
Overall I liked the conversation, although it wasn't what I expected. What I didn't like was that a lot of times when Matt tried to place his theories under Krashen's knowledge and experience so that Krashen would somehow judge them based on that, Kashen would act too pragmatically, too strictly scientific. He a lot of times rather repeats his tenets, that he has already tried than ventures to use his knowledge and truly elucidate Matt's scenarios. Moral of the story: I think Matt has really stumbled upon some really novel problems that are outside the scope of Krashen's largely empirical knowledge.
But the thing Krashen says about 'club membership' really gives me a lot to think about. I think that's the nugget of this video XD
Think about how many years Krashen has spent chasing alternative theories and comparing their results against his methods. It's like trying to teach someone a new way of mentally multiplying numbers: if they already have a working method for them, they're right in knowing alternative methods may exist, but may also be not as effective, so they're naturally skeptical or resistant to novelty. It's not simply that they're "stuck" on their concepts frameworks, but that they legitimately "know better" from their experience.
I can’t believe if watched this for free. Acquiring this information at home in my bathrobe free of charge would have been unheard of a decade ago.
BTW, Dr. Krashen, you should totally change the battery in your smoke detector.
Thank you so much!!!
The subconscious self-restraint when interacting with someone from a different "club" than you also works the opposite way when you're a native speaker of a language a foreigner is speaking to you in. I'm an Englishman who doesn't come from the central southern area, so I have a very strong regional dialect, and the difference between speaking to other British people and the non-British is huge. Not even just non-native English speakers; if I'm speaking to an American or what have you, I'll revert to the Queen's English and I'll actually mess up pronunciation because suddenly I'll get a somewhat American twang or overcompensate on pronunciation because my accent leaks in. AND YET, none of these changes occur if there is at least ONE other British person with me. And then the foreigner always comments on my accent. Reasonable self-consciousness I'd say.
YES !!! YESS
The ultimate crossover
Watched the video. I do believe we have an output filter. I’ve experienced this
This crossover is so anime
I don't like it when people keep saying the input "hypothesis", i mean, when it has been proven with millions of people already...it can't be hypothesis anymore, it's the truth. I learned English with Cartoon Network from 4 years old, i agree with both of you, compelling stories is the key. I have been waiting for this video a lot, and it's finally here...so amazing. Krashen you are my hero, Matt what you say is true, i speak from experience. Just Netflix and chill like a boss, learn languages the lazy way.
How come I just discovered your channel despite having been a Japanese learner for years and years! I'm also an English teacher and constantly argue with colleagues on what's the best way to learn a language. Thanks a lot for the vid. Stephen Krashen had a big impact on my language education...making my life more difficult in class after I was convinced that classroom active learning wasn't very efficient to say the least :(
Anytime I watched Dr. Krashen, I feel heartwarming knowing he's getting older. I always wish he remains good in health... Ameeen
I want to say "Thank You" to you Matt, 'cause you're the one who introduced me to him and his "Comprehensible Input" theory, Japanese pitch accent, native-like pronunciation, these are all the things that I've known from you; so THANK YOU for all of these things.
I think like anything that is a novelty/new, we feel awkward the very first time doing it. I do think the more we practice or do it it becomes muscle memory. I find knowing vocab(like you all suggest) first is the foundation in which we can build fluency. Once the vocab is solid in our mind, the words will come out pretty easily when constructing sentences. I found trying to learn grammar before knowing many vocab is a struggle. I didn't make much progress that way. It wasn't until I decided to let go of speaking fluent asap, did I start to make progress. I decided to just build vocab. I would insert Hawaiian words in whenever I spoke. Since doing that, I've notice I don't have to think so hard when constructing sentences now, as opposed to before, I would be searching for words. I actually think the grammar part is easy once the vocab is in place. For me, learning my native language(Hawaiian) is a passion and something meaningful to me. This makes the learning process so much more fun and motivating. My favorite quote, which I apply to everything in life, esp the big stuff,
'A journey of a thousand miles begins with one single step.'
I took several classes from Dr Krashen in grad school in the 80's... he only gets better with age. Matt, I think you are unique in your metacognition skills and reflection on your own learning, as contrasted with some hyper-monitor users who master difficult languages as adults. For example, in a way your study of tonality is like an advanced form of Input. You find it compelling to discover so it works.
Graded Readers is so great.
I've been reading these simple Japanese stories that I can comprehend and understand without many issues, learning new words and getting used to Kanji.
The stories may be dull, but being able to read a language that was once so mystical to me, even if it's such basic language, is a great pleasure and source of
motivation to keep going.
So even tho I read about mundane stuff like John-San visiting another family over summer vacation and going to a festival with them becomes crazy exciting to me.
There should be graded readers for every language, it makes things so much easier.
Hi!!! I'm desperately looking for graded reading material in beginner Japanese, I would be so very thankful if you could tell me where you find the stories you are reading.
At the moment I'm reading these books tadoku.org/japanese/en/
Please help, pretty please ^_^
51:22 Your theory about visualising specific grammar aspects as a visual aid for acquisition is amazing. I had huge success doing this myself but I've never heard it explained like this before. Wow. Thanks for the excellent talk... all language learners need to see this!
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Visualizing. Could you elaborate?
What a delight it is to listen to Dr.Krashen! And of course Matt with his fantastic interview questions.
Matt is a very thoughtful person !
Every second of this interview was so captivating, and perspective altering. Thanks so much Matt and Dr. Krashen!
This is probably one of the most insightful things I've seen, glad you had the opportunity to do this interview! It's seriously motivating!
This is the method I am using and it has been incredibly successful, it completely counteracts the normal study method and I am honestly quite shocked that it has been working so well. I use no english, I use pictures and stories/songs, and after only two months of active listening and learning I am able to listen and understand basic conversations and some stories, it is incredible.
I did not expect to find out that Stephen Krashen is actually really cute XD I mean, that famous video of him explaining comprehensible input is a lot of fun and he's really nice about the "beef" he throws around about teaching methods, but here he seems like a loveable grandpa ready to tell you stories about his life and share his knowledge.
I'll be revisiting this interview! Amazing job, thank you so much!
Every time I start to burn out on my Spanish input routine a video on this channel inspires me to re-evaluate, improve my methodology, and continue doing the work. Terrific interview, thank you.
While I agree with a lot, I find part of his core thesis hard to accept, or possibly I just misunderstand it. But having studied many languages myself, I find that learning grammar, at least to the point that it provides a structural scaffold for your subsequent input to "nest" in, is a massive booster to the speed at which you can get better at understanding and speaking a language. Of course random "if this do that" kinda grammar points are pretty useless. Further, I think speaking yourself, making mistakes, and observing the feedback you get from your partner (f.e. a question because something was not clear, a friendly laugh because you accidentally said something hilarious) is absolute KEY to advancing your skills and one of the fundamental processes through which you gain ability. So yeah, of course, without input you got nothing, so that is where it all starts. But to me, input is exactly that, it's just the input part - but the machinery of learning a language involves many more cogs and wheels, and some of them are theoretically optional for sure, but might just help you speed up the process. Just my 2 cents. Anyway, love your channel and great video as always. :)
I think right now the consensus is that grammar instruction works, but not in isolation. Meaning that it works when it's done in response to a question that the learner has. Which intuitively would make sense. If you teach the grammar like that, the learner gets an "a-ha" moment. But if you teach grammar out of context, just with lists upfront on things the learner hasn't encountered yet, then he just won't see the relevance of that information, and will have a hard time incorporating it.
The core of his thesis, the "learning vs acquisition" thing, hasn't stood up all that well to the test of time. And that's no diss on him. He came up with these ideas in the 60s/70s. But a lot has happened since then, and in particular in the last 2 or 3 decades where cognitive sciences have advanced in large strides. His idea was that grammar instruction helps, but only in the "monitoring" function, and it didn't help at all for the spontaneous production of speech. Namely it helps only for when you are consciously trying to be careful about how you phrase things. Brain imaging tells a different story, at least in the sense that neural systems related to speech production and neural systems related to executive functions are connected in a wide variety of ways.
It's not all wrong, but it's just rather simplistic in light of current research. For instance, he says that the brain is good at acquiring language, but not so good at learning about language. That's true only in the sense that the brain is naturally geared to acquire language, but it is not naturally geared to learn explicit grammar rules. The problem is that he infers from that that anything we do that our brains aren't naturally geared to do, well, that will have less potency, less value in the learning/acquisition process. But here's the thing: our brains also aren't naturally geared to learn how to read either. There's nothing natural about that. It's a cultural invention, one that children can't learn without explicit instruction. In other words, literacy is "learned", not "acquired". This learned thing, literacy, completely rewires how the brain processes language. So, it's a bit disingenuous to then say that our brains aren't all that good at "learning" but to leave out just how powerful learning can be. Literacy is a prime example of something that you "learn", but that is so potent it completely changes how you "acquire". And tbh, I'm not entirely sure how Krashen promotes reading so much without having ever addressed that irony.
The thing is, the actual speaking in your examples is technically not what you're learning from, but rather they became a vehicle to getting input in the form of the other person's reaction.
I think he means that just speaking the words to yourself in isolation is not a means of acquisition
Didn't expect to sit myself through the whole thing in one go but wow, that was a great interview really really enjoyed it.
Funnily enough, this video appeared in my feed while I was reading Krashen’s 1981 book on second language acquisition. Somehow the google gods knew what I was looking for.
The truth is that I spent about twenty years of my teaching career resisting Krashen’s ideas; but resistance was futile ha ha. I loved grammar and had attributed my own language success with having studied it so fiercely. Now I realize that I was simply using all of the grammar reading as a type of comprehensible input. There was no way to aim all that grammar in spontaneous speech.
Awesome questions! You can tell how much Matt respects Steven Krashen and that he really thought about what to ask. On the edge of my seat the whole hour 🙂
Wow, Matt. This is one of your best videos ever, and that's not a low bar. You did a great job as an interviewer with a legendary subject. Congratulations. I hope this video gets a million views.
I think that aktively speaking a language on a regular basis can 1) boost your confidence in your language skills and therefore indirectly improve your fluency b) improve your pronounciation (because it activates your mouth's muscle memory). Just a hypothesis. :_)
Fantastic interview! I dont think I have encountered a more clear and concise explanation of Stephen Kraschens theories before. And hearing him theorize and repsond to some of the points you made from your own language acquisition journey was fascinating! Thank so you so much Matt. Hope you have a great evening.
What an incredibly enlightened and insightful human being. This interview has changed my life already. Great job Matt!
I am a language teacher in a regular 'bilingual (but not really)' school in latin america. I teach following Krashen's priniciples, the rest of my colleagues with grammar grammar grammar and my boss (as lovely and motivating a person as she is and who loves the way I teach) still insists on grammar syllabuses and course books.
The thing I notice is that some students learn (acquire) english well (obviously from the delivery of the grammar in english) while others do not (because learning grammar as if it were a language learning method is boring as sh!t) and those students simply think they can't do languages because they fail at grammar. The irony is despite their negative opinions of themselves because of their difficulties with grammar they actually do learn and don't realize it. They just fail the grammar tests.
I just cannot express how much I resonated with what being an avid reader means to one's personal development.
I cannot wait to watch that!
Two very helpful people for the language community.
Watch what? You're already in the video.
@@JapanWalkerJJ he probably wrote that comment before the video has premiered
@@donpax8959 Yes, it was that.
I never realized the importance of being comfortable in your language, and feeling like you belong in the language. My mom when she speaks Norwegian (Her native langauge is Cebuano, mine is Norwegian) she comes of as more natural, but the moment she speaks with a stranger you can feel the uncertainty in what she's saying, her accent gets stronger, her words are more simple, and my mom is a very extroverted person so it's not like this is because of nervousness. I wonder if there is any good way to sound native in every environment, because true native people will always sound native no matter the situation (with very minor hiccups here and there of course). Also Steven Krashens excitement for reading as a general tool to improve so many aspects of ones life was really interesting to listen too, I whole hardheartedly agree with all of it. Legendary interview Matt!
I stutter in my native language when talking to strangers.
Certified Bisayang Dako
@@Pedro-er6ps but you stutter in a native manner
A lot of respect for Krashen for supporting open access.
This is really interesting. My first language was Spanish, but I was born and raised in the US with older siblings, so English had always been my strongest language. I never studied Spanish and rarely spoke it, but my whole life I was surrounded by Spanish because of my parents, family gatherings, church, etc. Now that I’m 26 and my job requires me to speak Spanish, I became fluent within a few months. Mind you I rarely used Spanish, I spoke here and there when I traveled to Spanish speaking countries and somehow I managed to speak okay. This past year I really focused on touching up my grammar but all in all this theory makes a lot of sense!
I was immediately engrossed in this mans ideas and voice. Truly interesting and he has truly contributed amazing ideas to language community!!! Thank you Matt!!!
This is the best video on the internet, i’m watching for the 2nd time right now. Thank you for making this happen! I would say make a part 2, but i feel like the key points have been addressed.
I'm so glad Krashen agreed to this interview!!! You were a great host, wonderful video, great discussion.
This is going to be amazing! The legend himself!
Love an exoert who is willing and open to lead an answer with "I don't know..." before moving into their own speculation. Makes me want to listen to them more.
A comment on accent and “joining the club” so to speak:
The overwhelming majority of the Spanish language content I consume is Mexican. I am inundated with Mexica media from TH-cam to television programs to music. In the beginning of my studies, I was exposed to a ton of European Spanish on account of my using Assimil. However, when I go to speak it is with a distinctly Puerto Rican accent. Why is this? Well, if what Krashen has said in this interview is true, it seems that it has to do with the fact that Puerto Rico is the “team” I joined. My wife and consequently her family is Puerto Rico and despite mostly speaking with them in English, the PR accent has come to dominate (though I still use Mexican slang).
Completely anecdotal of course, but it is an interesting correlation and seems to agree with his assertion.
It is great listening to this professor, and it has been an honour having been in his mailing list...reading is the key to language acquisition and Doctor Stephen Krashen has been an important inspiration for me during my process of improving my understanding of language acquisition. He is a can-do person who has left his print for future generations of teachers and students as well.
I haven't heard from Stephen since 2021. I hope he's doing well.
Oh, did you hear any news recently? I don't know him very well, but I got really interested in the Spanish book collection he mentions at 17:36. The entire interview is amazingly interesting.
This is a great interview. It's super cool how Stephen is so scientific he won't even state his opinions on something before making it really clear it's a hunch or something.
Great guy.
Ma boi Matt finally did it! Can't wait to listen to this :')
Wow this is the first time I actually heard Stephen Krashen speak but he is such an awesome guy in person. So inspiring. Had a blast listening to this interview- thank you!
50:50 Contrarily, I spent some time living in the US at a very early age. Although I would live the next 20 years in my native non-English speaking country, all throughout school I associated with an identity of being partially American. Every time I went back to the continent this feeling of being part American deep down was there in the back of my mind. Thus I was never uncomfortable about actively speaking.
But in actuality my learning situation wasn't very different from my peers. I didn't know much English grammatically starting school at the age of 7, nor did I study writing particularly hard. But being consciously aware of my past fuelled my interest. I may have acquired language elsewhere, or more strongly, because of this.
Even if today my relationship with American culture is at an all-time low, convincing myself that we're not somehow associated would be very difficult to do. The "club membership" appears somehow hardwired because of important memories of my past.
What an amazing person, best professor ever! As an aspiring researcher, I really loved his personality, and I hope more people get to know about him.
This interview completes the collection, congrats!
Awesome!❤❤❤
Sir Stephen Krashen, Thank you so much...❤❤❤
I’m fan girling hard rn
Coming back to this interview years after I started learning myself and have been doing more output. Incredibly insightful interview.
If only I had discovered Krashen earlier in my language journey!
Thank you so much for this Matt
Amazing interview! Thank you very much for making this possible. It’s always interesting to listen to such an intelligent person. Mr Krashen is a fricking legend!
I can’t stress how much I loved this video. But I’m struggling to understand how I get comprehensible input as a beginner.
Really enjoyed this one, Matt. I never tire of watching people who are much, much smarter than me, and Krashen is one of those people. Both of you have given me a lot to think about as I enter my third year of learning Japanese. Congrats on this interview.
omg its the ULTIMATE anime crossover...
the man himself talking to the man himself....
I loved the final, those last words were inspiring, for me, Krashen is a fundator and a very important figure in these places... thank you for making this amazing interview
Luca.. Kaufmann... Krashen... Khatzumuto?
man, i'd love that.
You two are such an inspiration! My Japanese journey has been a long one, coming up 8 years living in Japan now. I would say I'm fluent but, I really love the idea of "joining the club" of the language. Being seen as part of the group is such an essential part of Japanese life and culture, the language is so wrapped up in culture in Japan too. I teach English, and it is so useful to know how we acquire language, and apply methods like ANKI and the things you two are talking about in my class. I would love to hear your opinions on trying to inspire students who don't want to learn a language. I have built up lots of techniques to make the language learning process more interesting for my students and it seems Dr. Krashen is very much on the side of keeping things fun too. Looking forward to your future videos Matt. Incredible work.
In the past year, I read a million words of Japanese novels, from popular thrillers to art literature. And shadowed a dozen audiobooks at 0.6 or 0.7 speed. I will only look up words after they reappear, and only in a 漢和辞典. My reading speed has quadrupled, to 24 to 30 pages per hour.
For listening, I recommend shadowing (repeating aloud a split second behind) novels read clearly by top voice talents, as slow as necessary to keep up and imitate every nuance. You won’t learn to “mumble naturally” like hard-to-follow movie dialogue, but super-naturally, so that your every word in understood by everyone.
wow.great job.How many books ammount to million words? and do you mind asking you how long have you been learning japanese?
@@osamahabbas3443 9 paperbacks, 15mm thick, about 5000 pages. I learned Japanese 1975-1980. And in the 1990s I managed translation services. But moved to the countryside and changed jobs. I learned the (comparatively easy) Scandinavian languages well enough to enjoy great thrillers, simply by reading and shadowing dozens of books above my head.
Recently I’ve taken up Japanese again. But I have never studied grammar or kanji for JLPT. I mostly resisted looking up words if I could guess from context and enjoy the stories. I only looked up kanji after I read them repeatedly, and they began to bother me so, that I already knew what they must mean, and I knew I would recall the pronunciation forever after looking once. But after all that reading, I recognize most kanji on my novels. So now I do what I used to avoid, and look up every kanji I don’t recognize.
@@DougalBayer Thank you. I also don't study grammar, I just read but I look up words . I'm a bit impatient because I want to learn other languages as well, but I know its a long word. Thank you for replying, just one more question any tips to improve my listening?
@@osamahabbas3443 I should tell you that I am a Speech-Language Pathologist and have studied acoustic phonetics in depth. I believe strongly in audio shadowing, by listening to audiobooks of full length novels or nonfiction works, read by professional voice talents, slowed down considerably, through headphones, and repeating aloud a split second later.
If I have the mp3 sound files, I use a hi-res sound editor (SoX) to 1) hi-bias filter (reduce the low frequency vocal “carrier wave” boom below 500Hz to -6 or -12 dB, and amplify the “speech information” range 1500-4000 Hz +6dB 2) compand (compress loudest sounds 0dB>-12dB and expand/amplify midrange -36dB>-24dB, to enhance quick consonants relative to overly loud vowels), and 3) resample the playback rate to between 0.6 and 0.8 (as slow as I need be able to perceive and imitate every subtly of tongue position, rhythm and pitch). If I’m streaming (AudioBooks.jp), at minimum I adjust the graphic equalizer or choose the “vocal” filter setting, and slow the rate.
Some language teachers will tell you not to listen and speak slowly, but every musician or martial arts practitioner knows the value of slow, accurate practice. Later, you can repeat at a higher speed and less filtering, until you are ready for street speech. But as beginners, we cannot learn from rapid natural conversation or noisy audio. I enjoy classic Japanese cinema, but it never helped my Japanese. I think that shadowing should run ahead of any other study, even at the beginning. Otherwise, how can you even learn one word, before your ear and tongue have acquired the new sound system? My approach is still meaning based (because I am daydreaming a story while I listen). But the foundation of the speech pyramid is the true sounds of a language, and the patterns they form, from syllables to words to phrases to sentences to stories.
@@DougalBayer Thank you very much
What a great interview! I feel like I could listen to him talk for hours.
I learned Japanese primarily by reading lots of novels. It took many years, but worked great, so I completely agree. Now I'm learning Cantonese and the spoken language is different from the written. It's quite a challenge when you know how you want to learn, but have to find alternatives.
Just reading novels won't give you the writing system. How did you deal with Kanji? RTK?
@@rimenahi I learned grammar, pronunciation, and the basics of Kanji through college classes in the US and Japan. I also spent a lot of time talking to people in Japanese during college, which was the first 5 years I was learning the language. For reading, I started trying to read manga at the beginning until I could finally understand the story and get through a volume in a few days. I started reading books as soon as I got to where I only needed to look up a word every other sentence or so. I just looked everything up with an electronic dictionary.
After college, I started trying to take the JLPT 1, and it took a few tries, but all I did in between with the language is read novels. For the next 10 years I only used the language for reading novels, then about 5 years ago I became able to get access to audio books. After listening to about 5 or 6 audiobooks, I could finally understand most TH-camrs. Comedy and informal conversations between other people, especially in a dialect, are still hard to understand.
So reading novels isn’t the only thing I did to learn the language by any means, but I did it more than anything else. I feel like when I got to the point I could read the speed that people talk and then mapped it to native speaking with audiobooks, is when I finally became able to process the language with my brain without thinking about it. So I think reading was the essential key for actually acquiring the language for me.
I didn’t have RTK back when I started, but if I were starting again with today’s resources I would certainly try it, because I think it could help me start reading earlier.
@@shosetsuninja3112 Wow, thank you so much for your detailed answer.
As a chinese guy, i think the easiest way to learn cantonese is to learn mandarin and then watch a lot of hong kong cantonese drama, you dont have to learn the writing, you will automatically understand from your mandarin vocabulary, most of it that is.
It's like a conversation between a professor and his student. Great!
I love how Krashen's last point was the importance of Spiderman, what a legend.
I really enjoyed that he readily admitted that he didn't have the answers to every question posed.
This is what I've always wanted.
That was the best language learning discussion I have ever heard. 5 times in a row Matt raises such good beautifully expressed questions, and they go about making hypothesis around it and they just communicate so well and so clearly. I am absolutely stunned that was so inspirational
I’ve been waiting for this for years!