The Zelda game that had to be CHANGED in America
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.พ. 2022
- Nintendo's games aren't usually very offensive, but this Zelda game contained such blatant fat-shaming that Nintendo of America had to actually re-write part of the game's plot! Let's talk about the Zelda game that fat-shamed its own characters!
PATREON - / thomasgamedocs
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SOURCE
- www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks...
- legendsoflocalization.com/fat...
- gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/...
- f***novideogames.tumblr.com/post/67979805242/fatphobia-in-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds (You'll have to un-censor the link!)
CREDITS
Some A Link Between Worlds footage via Santosx07
- • The Legend of Zelda A ...
Some A Link Between Worlds footage via NintendoDSMovies
- • Zelda: A Link Between ... - เกม
![Shareโลมา Ep.110 ว่าที่เจ้าสาว สะใภ้แสนล้าน "แก้มบุ๋ม ปรียาดา" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZGbB_iowdmE/mqdefault.jpg)
did you guys see the new pokemon games btw?? those starters look super good! unlike the framerate lol
Hehe
Did you guys see this ratio
Agreed! I want all the starters 🥰
Yeahhhh
Yeah looks so good.
Honestly, the most interesting part to me was just that in Japanese, the Zoras say “Zora” like Gorons say “Goro” in other games.
It’s a common in Japanese trope in their ‘other creature’ they use.
@@hiddenflare6169 it’s kind of annoying, personally.
What
What are you talking about? everyone adds their species into their speech huma!
FYI the Japanese language actualy does this normally. Different reigional dialects will end certain words with different sounds. There's even a small village that uses nya.
I like that the translated version made it an actual emergency, as Oren could potentially explode and die if they didn’t get the stone back, with her sudden growth after she gobbled that fish adding to the situation as a warning that she may be blowing up pretty soon
Same here. I can understand the controversy if they kept the original "fat-shaming" lines via. direct translation, but you gotta give the English translation team some kudos on changing the lines some to make the situation more serious.
cute pfp
Inflation
Like most translations in Zelda games, the German translation was very close to the Japanese one.
Oh lol, haven't watched you in a long time
It was? I can't really remember and I don't have in mind that any of the Zoras said something about Oreens beauty.
But German has the best Link's Awakening translation change. Look up what Cukeman says in the original translation. That definitely wasn't in the Japanese.
@@marvj13 I distinctly remember that one Zora saying that they preferred the Queen's previous look.
Ok see
I played it in Spanish back in 2016 and I remember one of the Zoras saying that he prefered the fat queen over the thin one, so I guess the Spanish version was also translated from Japanese.
Igual yo no recuerdo que dijeran nada de su "belleza" igual lo jugué hace mucho.
I really don't see this as "Fat Shaming", Like the Zora literally points out meaningless it is really is.
It's because the English translation was done in the USA so it makes sense for jokes about fat people to be more harmful in that version
And yet its the positive comment about her weight that's supposed to be fat shaming :/
With the way its written in English, it can be interpreted as the type of thing that happens when a deep-water fish is brought to shallow water/the surface and becomes bloated-looking because the pressure inside its body is no longer counteracted by the pressure outside its body. Honestly that makes more sense for Zoras then the gem having something to do with "beauty".
I guess the idea of having it to do with "beauty" was to make it sound more like a story that you would hear in a fairy tale. If they waned to go in that direction, what they could have done is instead make it so without the gem Queen Zora would look like a realistic fish instead of being humanoid. I think that would be a funny way to do it lol
But realistic fish are beautiful, though.
*than
“Sube Sube” is a Japanese onomatopoeia for the sound of something smooth and slippery but it also has another meaning of “young and sexy” so you can understand why the stone that made her sexy was called the smooth smooth stone.
That reminds me of lady Alvida, from One Piece. She ate the Sube Sube no Mi and went from fat to beautiful.
@@MrLoowiz yeah that’s exactly the same
ohhh ok
now i understand lol thx
Josiah, would you be willing to share your source?
I'm asking because I'm a Japanese speaker yet I've never heard of it having that meaning. In fact, I even looked up in every dictionary I could find and there's no trace of that meaning of "sexy". We do say the skin of a young woman is "sube sube" but that's because she's young, so her skin is smooth to the touch, not because she's sexy. For instance some women get envious of men that have a skin more "sube sube" than theirs. It really isn't related to "sexy" or inherent to sexy women.
While we're at the topic, the reason Alvida became slim wasn't because the fruit is sube sube, but rather because her skin became so smooth to the touch that her fat "slipped away" from her body. No relation between "sube sube" and "sexy" (or "slim")
This explains alot about the previous zora kings, they didn’t have the smooth gem
m w e e p
@@NewSoupWiiHii mweep
Indeed
LOL
or later ones. Look at the Zora King in botw. He's mega obese. lmao
I think this scene from a Link Between Worlds alludes to the fat fairy queen from a Link to the Past. She lives inside the pyramid of power, you need to use a superbomb to get in to her fountain. She says something like, "Now that Ganon has taken the golden power, I've lost my beauty [and become fat]". I think in the end credits there's a line which says something like, "the fairy queen regains her beauty", and she's thin again. I'm surprised you didn't talk about this in the video
Also the fat Zora king from Ocarina of Time.
@@camthesaxman3387
He's less fat and more a giant fish head with legs. Like a reverse mermaid.
@@camthesaxman3387 if you’re counting him as fat then so is the zora king from botw
The point being that Zoras have a history of fat monarchs.
A link to the past was made in a different time for a different audience. People today are too sensitive.
But "Overweight" and "Obese" are established medical terms with respect to BMI. If anything, Wii Fit showed restraint by not including the category "Morbidly Obese."
BMI is proven to not be an accurate measure of a person's 'health', there isn't much relation between weight and height.
@@thefurry7165 It's a decent measure for most of the population, or else everyone from doctors to actuaries wouldn't be using it anymore. If anything, the biggest problem with BMI is that it tends to *under*-diagnose excess fat these days. The BMI chart we use today was developed in 1972 based on aggregate population data available to a particular scientist at the time. People today are on average less active, older and consume more processed foods than people in 1972, so the predictions made back then about the body composition of the average person of a given height and weight combo would be optimistic by today's standards. There are probably a lot of people of nominally "normal" BMI who are nevertheless carrying more body fat than is optimal for their health. I think the simplest solution would simply be to shift the upper cutoffs for each category of normal and above on the chart by a point or two to the left so that the new "normal" range is 18.5 to 23/24 and the new "obese" range is 23/24 to 28/29, etc.
@@SoIDontUploadMuch I'm beginning to believe your knowledge in biology isn't just lacking... It's below zero
@@thefurry7165 k
@@thefurry7165 It's only inaccurate if you're really, really short/tall or muscular. Which most americans aren't.
It's still hilarious and baffling to me that people get offended by being called obese in Wii Fit. Like...wtf did they expect in a game about health and fitness??
Actually, there is a good reason. The ratings that Wii Fit gave were known to be badly incorrect. I believe I once read a story about how a girl that wasn't even fat got rated as "Obese" by the game but if you took 1 look at the girl it was clear as day she wasn't even close to being obese.
So actually yes, people did have good reason to be offended.
My mom was around the top of the obese scale in the game. She was never labeled obese by any doctor. Still, we had a good laugh. It's kinda like a joke now.
@@prismaticc_abyss bruh its literally a game for small children do you not see what’s wrong with give them body issues based on horrendously inaccurate scale
@@prismaticc_abyss I'm not saying all women are like this but yeah...you definitely are ignorant to how sensitive women can be when it comes to their bodies. Not to mention what Benzona said is also true.
"bEiNg FaT iS uNhEaLtHy??"
Yes
_(Friendly fire will not be tolerated!)_
I love all the research that goes into it, and the way of storytelling, but aren't these titles getting increasingly click-baity?
A bit, yeah.
"research" no shade (and no pun intended) to Thomas but his research came from Clyde not him
that’s how you get views, i guess.
It's honestly fine. Go watch veritasium's video on click bait.
you gotta do what you gotta do. it is his job after all
No wonder this story struck me as so odd! Thanks for the context :)
It's already pretty weird on its own because, you know, F A T F E T I S H.
@@krimsonkatt for real, when he was talking about the queen inflating I remembered sonic dream collections and weird cringe deviantart fetishist fanarts...
As a fat person, no you shouldn't harass people for being overweight; but at the same time, obesity is an actual problem and as someone who has a lot of trouble with stress eating I'm working towards getting my mental health sorted out so that I CAN get healthier. Fat positivity can be extremely toxic and while I do believe you should love your body, you should do it in a healthy way
This is what the world needed to hear
"Fat acceptance" is killing a lot more people than "fatphobia" ever did.
a doctor once said "beauty may only be skin deep, but fat goes to the organs. stay healthy"
I am actually quite thankful i was harassed when I was fat since about a year ago it heavily motivated me to go to the gym and lift weights. Now I am in the greatest shape of my life thanks to this, all without even a minute of cardio lol
The childhood trauma Wii Fit caused is real af.
I never knew this about ALBW, interesting little fact 😅
Wow a verified comment without any replies huh, yeah the wii fit thing made me feel bad lol
First reply on a verified account 🎉! Yeah 🥳!
@@luigift5900 I refreshed the page and saw your reply! I guess I didn't type fast enough!
@@allaccessentertainment4755 gg tho😁
Stress eat more, lardass
The one Zora in the Japanese version that says that they liked the Queen before her form changed is based as hell, even if it's maybe played as a joke in the original version
@Electroboss Internet slang for cool or awesome
@Electroboss I keep getting told opposite of cringe? I've seen it used somewhat like "a good opinion despite what others think" but I also see it used ironically pretty much as often. I don't mean something like "that is an opinion I support, I too am against abortion" but more like "that is an opinion I support, I also think the 3rd game is the best in the series unlike all those who like the 5th one". The ironic way is like
"we should kill all horses"
"based"
@Electroboss BASED ON GAY MANGA
@@Wabbit_Guy wrong, based means something like not caring what others think.. so for example let's say you do something cringe and it isn't the lack of self-awareness but rather the lack of giving a fuk that makes you do said cringe thing, then that would be based
@Clayton hey just cause ya dont like it no shaming others
Sometimes people need to be told the truth.
I remember when my WiiFit Board said I was fat, that motivated me to lose weight .
I got into bodybuilding in such a young age, I have to thank it for keeping me fit.
Hello there. I studied this phenomenon for 3 years. Unfortunately the data would suggest that you are an outlier. There is a whole ton of data too so I don't doubt it's credibility. For every person who receives harsh words and pushes back in defiance there is a much larger group that only sinks further. You should be proud of the fact that you are in the minority who responds that way but that cannot be expected of all people. The metric used in Wii fit were not correct and the scale they were attempting to approximate (BMI) has widely been discredited to the point of causing harm by healthcare professionals and is being phased out in most places. Tackling the issue of weight should follow what has been proven to be effective and not what is anecdotally effective. That means encouragement, realistic goals and mental health support. Also other physical health factors such as access to healthcare are really important. Telling people that a number is too high has been an abysmal failure in the push for better health. I would also note that studies into people who responded well anecdotally to "tough love" didn't show statically significant improvement in exercise or studying from recieving negative stimulus than recieving no stimulus at all. They did however consistently state that they 'felt' that they did better. They also still showed most improvement upon receiving the positive stimulus of affirmation and encouragement. So even if you think the tough love helps the nurturing love still works best and the tough love might not be helping at all. My takeaway was that for some people the negative stimulus is just an intrinsic part of how they choose to challenge themselves and I'm not here to judge. Some people want to get called weak and fat when they work out. Some people want to be called stupid when they study. Heck I like to be called a slut in the bedroom. This doesn't mean that it works for everyone or improves outcomes for the people who have these preferences. It certainly doesn't mean that we should tell people who respond negatively to these stimuli that they are incorrect either. Just cause I like being called a slut in the bedroom doesn't mean you should call everyone a slut. Just because a comment about your weight felt like the push you needed doesn't mean that we should go around inaccurately calling healthy people "overweight".
I believe being too soft, lead people to a false sense of accomplishment. Getting praise for just joining the race isn’t going to help push that person to try harder to become number #1. Real results, require real pain. An echo chamber of praise will spoil a person, once that “false cheerleading group” is not around. The real motivation and confidence they need comes from within. Despite what your Studies say, which are normally done in a small group of people, afraid of offending themselves. You have to embrace negativity, to find the positive that can result from it.
@@jumpmadmadness1222 no these studies are not conducted on small groups. You are simply incorrect about this. The smallest study sample size for the meta-study I compiled with my peers was 240 students. The largest was a study of over 16,000. The total number of data items we had was over 100,000. And this is only one of the many meta studies. There is a wealth of data on this because of our ability to work with learning groups at various levels of formal education. The reason I personally find it interesting is because prior to my research I believed that I myself benefited from negative stimulus. I have had to come to terms with the fact that my expectations were flawed. Again I was specifically looking at the impact of negative stimulus on different groups for different activities. The data proving the benefit of the so called "soft approach" is far more vast and spans multiple decades of quality research. You are misinformed on this subject and your belief is not aligned with so much of what we know. Countless studies including my own have sought out to show that positive stimulus shouldn't be seen as the default but I have to say that it really doesn't pan out the way our bias expect. Encouragement is consistently the most beneficial response.
I had not wanted to debate this. I simply thought you might be interested in what someone who specifically worked on this would have to say about it. I would ask you to research it further if you want to understand it better and bring forward the question of if rhetoric has influenced your current attachment to an unsubstantiated point of view. Belief in media reports on supposed "participation trophies" would be a good indication of if that is the case as that entire concept has been proven to be largely a media fabrication. A co-worker of mine attempted a study on participation trophies and long story short they basically don't exist and the ones that do aren't what they have been reported to be and don't meet the volume necessary to conduct research. The closest they came to "participation trophies" were "certificates of attendance" which are not used as positive stimulus and if you stretch the definition "graduation hoodies" could be described as participation trophies but there is nothing to suggest that graduation hoodies have had any effect on like anything. You usually have to pay for them.
Point being you have now had an opportunity to confront the data. You of course don't have to confront it but I always hope that when forming opinions people will take on board the incredible tool of scientific data which we are so lucky to have instead of assuming that preconceived notions about areas that they have not studied are impervious to being incorrect.
Most people are into bodybuilding. They build a body out of fat.
@@rosejuliette9180 The body positivity movement is one big participation trophy, patting people on the ass and congratulating them for merely existing is what our society does and people can see it with their own eyes no matter how many of your ''studies'' try to gaslight them into doubting it.
I've been playing ALBW for so many years, even speedran it back in the days, I've never thought about what was wrong about that specific part in the game.
To be fair, I was only 17 when it came out and my focus was mostly towards school.
What did annoy me was failing the early trigger for the smooth stone event while speedrunning it 😅
whats your pb
This scene may also be a reference to One Piece. The Smooth Gem uses the same word used for the Smooth-Smooth Fruit which given the user smooth, slippery skin. As a side effect, it also causes excess weight to "slip off" as seen with Alvida who was a large, round woman when we first meet her only to appear much later after consuming the devil fruit with a slimmer physique more akin to most other women in Oda's work. It also works with the left-behind Zora as being smoother would help reduce drag in the water.
As a guy who also watched One Piece, that seems like a stretch.
@@DoJayMi If it's not a reference, then it's going off of the same idea.
They must call you Luffy cause that was quite a stretch lol
One Piece! Don't give it up, Zora!
One Piece! Don't give it up Motxmod!
One Piece! Don't give it up, give it up, give it up, give it up!
I was looking in the comments for someone mentioning this, not sure about an outright reference (although "smooth-smooth stone" is pretty dang similar) but it is quite the coincidence
as a morbidly obese person, i wasn't bothered by the Japanese lines at all. i would say that that could mean i've been desensitised to fat-shaming, but compared to many others i've been fairly untouched verbally.
It may also be putting a positive spin on something negative.
a lot homophobic/transphobic jokes have been changed to be positive, like calling things "gay" is used as a compliment
@@playedlikeaspoon2439 It is used in the LGBT community as a positive adjective to describe things. Of course it's not going to be used properly in a high school. That's a tiny sampling of people, especially of children, for you to confidently tell someone how a word is used lol
@@TheExigency Gay still has many meanings similarly to slang words. Thusly I don't think you can use it "properly" or improperly.
@@sam4gaming135 gay as a compliment? never heard that before lmao
@@sam4gaming135 you should be transphobic
It's curious how the Latin American Spanish version keeps the original dialogue from the Japanese version, even though, if I remember correctly, the translation made for Latin America is also done by Nintendo Treehouse
I'm in no way natively hispanic or Spanish-speaking or born in the culture or whatever, but I heard when I studied abroad in South America that people can often call each other fat/chubby, but with a positive, endearing connotation (e.g. calling your wife "mi gordita") rather than it being seen as offensive, so maybe because being fat doesn't have such stigma as in the US might be why they didn't change it? I wouldn't know for sure though since I'm just a white English-speaking US American myself.
@Toquimequi Graphic Design gorditas pelliscadas, why they had to call it like that... but I agree Latam is way non-sensitive in comparison although sometimes that makes Americans tick off
@@fixedfunshow Americans are way to sensible we don't give a fuck about that,also fat is not healthy so..
@@ladymoragsbootlaces8059 Nope, people being bullied for being fat exist. The reason why people take it endearing is because at a young age they are taught the difference between what is actually offensive or not. Which I really appreciate it makes you stronger in a way, that’s why South America is known for not being offended as much as America is. I mean there is literally fat models in USA, here in South America you don’t see that. So I think the stigma is way bigger here in South America than in the US
At the end of the day, I mean people who are fat get their praised by almost anything.
@@ladymoragsbootlaces8059 It's not so much that the remarks themselves have a positive connonotation, but rather no connotation at all (sort of), you'd be surprised to find so many people being called as their appearance (even to strangers, although that tends to happen with more vulgar or extremely informal places within the city), hence why you may hear people refering to you or someone else by their skin color (if you know the spanish word for black you likely know already, for white people though, it tends to be "colorado", don't think too much about that last one, it does not have much of a meaning as far as I'm aware of), weight (for thin people as well), or just straight up sassy remarks (could be a nickname that is kind of an insult but isn't really taken on that seriously).
As the other one said, it is usually taught to differentiate between someone being offensive or not, especially since remarks with "positive" connotations tend to be accompanied with diminutives (in the one you mentioned, it would be -ita, but then again, it tends to be there, but it's not a must).
Although I'm definitely not saying discrimination does not exist (I think it's more than obvious that it does everywhere), people also tend to differentiate between someone being actually hateful or just extremely sassy.
Maybe it would've gone over a bit better if the zoras were concerned about her health rather than her beauty.
All of human history, until extremely recently, beauty has been accepted as something positive to behold or aspire to. Now we cry about "words are violence and cause real life harm" nonsense.
@@Vulpas many years ago, being 'chubby' wasn't considered ugly, it was only in recent years that people came up with that whole "it's unhealthy" nonsense.
@@thefurry7165 Any extra weight, even muscle, is hard on organs, especially the heart. We've known this for a long time. Cease this folly.
Concern for health is also used to fat shame people, though, whether you mean well, or not. Someone being a bit fat doesn't necessarily make them unhealthy; and often times, people only have so much control over their weight, before genetics starts to play a role in it.
@@thefurry7165 How?? Its always been stated that being fat is unhealthy. At least here in America anyways. In recent years ppl are more accepting of overweight ppl bc big is the new beautiful now. Y'know big butts and boobs come with it so it's favored now.
the formula is simple: fat shame to get the players to think they need to lose weight to get players to buy Wii Fit to make profits
What a charitable company!
It would also help Nintendo stans to get out of their mom’s basement
Damn, what dastardly marketing.
How generous.
that's some next level entrepreneurship
I guess you could say that their gem was stolen by a "smooth criminal" 😂
This actually made me smile kjdfk
Daaa dum, dum. Daaa da da da dum dum. Daaa da da da, dum dum dumm...
@@CanadaBud23 ow!!
Nice.
I remember that Wii Fit Plus would always call me fat as a kid because I would always eat breakfast before playing during the weekends. It would always pull up overweight until one day I played before eating and I was more on the risk of overweight a lot closer to healthy weight.
7:37 voice acting 11/10 lol
I wonder if that scale has anything to do with the Zora's being monsters in that timeline? I know the lore is supposed to be because people treated them bad, but what if theres more to it than that, and the majority of Zroa's had that scale stolen.
I think there’s two kind of Zoras, the blueish, slender alien humanoid Zoras, and the more green, creature of the lake looking Zoras
*zroa*
@@dustymcwari4468 Yes, in Oracle Of Ages, There's a dialogue with a Zora(Blue one), saying that they are the Noble Zora's and the ones that attack Link are the wild ones
Because people treated them badly? What are you talking about?
I think "SHE WILL GROW LARGER AND LARGER" would be more a monster situation and less shaming.
Yeah
I feel like the English translation could've made some better reasons for the Smooth Gem being urgent to get back than just "she's bloating with power" since I feel like her eating and the purple water don't exactly match up. I'm sure there's something better than what was given, but what's done is done. Also the name "Smooth-Smooth Stone" is much more Zelda-y than "Smooth Gem" imo
I'm getting flashbacks to One Piece. There's literally an item called the "smooth smooth fruit" that turned a fat woman into a slim and curvy one after eating it.
@@revolvingworld2676 perhaps that was the inspiration?
@@INSAne_DrUNkard
Eh it's probably some Japanese culture thing that they both share inspirations with.
the german name is flatter stone
@@Safetyswitch Well it certainly made her belly flatter...
Now I want a video where you end every sentence with zora :D
4:37 6:31 Someone has an inflation fetish... 😳
Pyrocynical be like:
Based
That is basically what i got from this
Dude, Telling someone that they are obese when they actually are obese after they ask for it on their own is not offensive (I mean ur playing a health-centric game what did u expect?)
Except it often gets it wrong.
A person able to SEE you can because they can SEE you are factually that.
An minigame score system can't actually tell the difference between a cripple, someone obese, or someone bad at X game.
This is why you'd use a fitness rating or tie it to something like average fitness for age group.
This judges your abilities shown without making a massive claim that is impossible to verify.
It makes no sense to use weight as a judgement system as there is simply no way to correlate the information in any meaningful way.
There definition of obese was wrong. And plus sized ≠ unhealthy
@@ellie8784 first of all, there is no such thing as "plus sized". Overweight people (like myself) are overweight. Period.
Second, yes it is possible to be healthy and overweight BUT only in specific situations
"People who are overweight can be considered healthy if their waist size is less than 35 inches for women or 40 inches for men, and if they do not have two or more of the following conditions:
High blood pressure
High blood sugar
High cholesterol"
@@glock4455 most plus sized people do not have 2 or more of those conditions... Being overweight is not, in most situations, unhealthy, it just puts you at higher risk for developing medical issues. There's a lot of things that have higher impact on medical outcomes than weight.
@@ellie8784 Overweight is a health hazard. To say being obese ≠ being unhealthy is scientifically wrong. It's like saying that smoking ≠ being unhealthy just because a smoker doesn't have any medical issues. Obesity kills, stop spreading misinformation, that's a disservice for public health.
Honestly, while being fat should not be shamed, it also should not be celebrated. Not to get into that whole discussion, but showing people that being fat is not ideal should be normal at this point.
Indeed.
I agree
Body neutral is better because it’s about accepting the way you are, not shaming yourself or focusing on your looks :)
@@coolklefkisarecool if you look like a bag full of fat you should not be ashamed, but you should be concerned about your health. Just sayin'.
Nah it should be shamed
your channel is so interesting!! dont ever stop making videos 😩😩
Thankfully Way Forward is including a literal translation to avoid to get the original text, or something closer. Hope more companies start giving this option.
They're making Legend of Zelda: A Way Forward?
The fact that it’s controversial to equate fitness with beauty is kind of mind-blowing to me. I mean yeah, don’t insult people for their physical traits, sure.. but it’s silly to pretend that humans aren’t engineered to admire physiques perceived to be virile and healthy… and I say that as a very unremarkably-shaped person.
Thinking the exact same thing. Couldn't it have been established, that that's how the Zora simply think of their species?
Yeah facts. Health and natural attraction are way more linked to one another than most people I think realize.
except for how skinny does not equate to healthy/fit. Before I had kids I could slouch in a chair and you could count all my ribs, from the front, from a distance. I had such a lack of love handles that i could fit my fist in the divot in the front of my pelvis. My waist (not my hips) was only like 25" or so around. Like measure out a shoelace or string to that and put it in a circle. Meanwhile my hips were at about 35". Sure I could ride my bike for 20 hrs and after I had my kids I could still wear just under my own body weight between weights and a loaded backpack (23lbs in weights and 100 or more of random crap in my backpack) and go for a 7 or 8 hour walk, but that's just going of natural build. I HAVE never been in shape. Even back then. Yeah I ate a lot of fruits and veg back then, but before I had kids I would generally be eating between 3,000-4,500calories A DAY. Like keeping them down, just eating that much. I have also always struggled to dead lift even just 45lb.
Even back then I was never in shape and never actually fit. I was that skinny because of my metabolism and that my body didn't store fat unless I was getting ready for a growth spurt and after I was done growing, it never stores fat until after I had kids. Meaning it's just how I was. Even now with me being much fatter than I was before kids, I'm still pretty skinny for my build. But after having a heart attack I'm now more out of shape than I've ever been and am for the first time in my life actually having to work to even be able to do a 30 min walk. (Just last march a 30 min walk literally put me in ER because it caused enough stress on my heart to interrupt it's electrical rhythm and caused it to regularly skip multiple beats in a row. Going on a 3 hour walk last week was a major thing. Nothing like the 8 hour walks I used to do but still. a 3 hour walk is nothing. Especially with no added weight and no jogging/running.) So while I'm still "skinny" I'm the most out of shape I've ever been.
And this isn't even touching the topic of eating disorders. So yeah, just because someone is skinny, doesn't mean they are fit let alone healthy. Heck, just because they are fit doesn't mean they are healthy. You should look into how much of a risk body builders are for heart attacks and other cardiovascular issues because of how large their hearts get, and that's without the use of gear (chemical enhancements like steroids and growth hormones, and other such stuff.) Body builders tend to have very bad hearts despite having super "fit" hearts. So even being fit doesn't automatically equate to "healthy".
Also, until modern times, being skinny like I was, would make you the first to die during a harsh winter. The only reason why these genes survived in my family was due to the fact that until my great grandparents' generation, that part of my family were very wealthy. (and there are branches of that part of the family that still are very much so.) So we had the money and power to just steal food from the peasants when we got low on food. Meanwhile, those peasants my ancestors forced food from would and did starve to death if they weren't able to hold onto large amounts of calories and fat. Being able to store calories and fat so easily is one way that allowed homosapiens to out compete Neanderthals. They needed far more calories a day than we do and their body was more likely to pass extra calories in the form of bodily waste and sweat vs storing ALL extra calories as fat. (And yes, it's thought that they possibly literally sweated out excess fat through their sweat instead of storing it.) So being prone to gaining weight from calories has really only been a bad thing as of like the last century, maybe past century and a half.
Stop voting for left wingers and this will be purged from our culture.
Given that beauty is very much a historic and cultural thing and modern, Western beauty standards not having been prominent for most of human history: no. Humans aren't "engineered to admire" fitness. Humans aren't engineered for anything really because we're all complex individuals with different believes, preferences and personalities and not some homogeneous blob created by one bearded dude.
I thought that it was an interesting part that a stone helped with a magic flow, and without it her magic was unable to freely leave her body. I always wondered what pent up magic would do to someone and to me this was an interesting answer. Forgot about the stress eating fish seen though, I can see why that might make some uncomfortable
A Link Between Worlds was the first Zelda game I ever played. It's kinda weird learning about this for the first time, yet it explains a lot.
Also, props to that one Zora who didn't see the queen any differently because of her appearance.
You know, I have seen the website where Clyde Tomato was talking about this. Glad to see that this strange translation getting some notice. It was even in Did You Know Gaming's 3DS Facts video.
Generally speaking, japanese culture focuses a lot on having a healthy weight. Being overweight is very much seen as a big problem, and being skinny is also very much connected to "being beautiful" etc. It has to do with healthiness. Japenese people do not like unhealthy behavior very much, just like many other places. Just that Japan tends to use them as bad examples. Hence, why so many random bad guys/girl in anime and such are depicted as overweight.
Sounds like we should take notes from them, they seem to have it all figured out.
You have to understand the cultural aspect as well
In Japan it is ideal and the norm to be active and eat better. It is part of the culture to strive for this and divulge on someone not living up to this expectation
America is much more swamped with fast food and overweight people that saying the same things in this country is fat shaming.
I truly believe it is culture differences
Most of the lines of the Zora that says they like the Queen’s look despite the chaos surrounding it seem to be coming from a place of fetishization rather than being just a joke line.
I feel like assuming the intent behind the lines is a pretty lost cause and that it's best to just take it as face value
You could say that objectification is a clear theme here since they look up to her solely for her beauty, but liking someone regardless how skinny or chubby they appear is 100% not a fetish thing
Definitely a fat/inflation fetish lol
to be frank it kinda removes all the offensiveness in the scene.
beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
then again you should still get her rock back as it looks very painful.
After years I recall in Link to the past, there is a self fat shaming from the fairy that gives you the Silver Arrows that you mandatorily you need at the very end of the game... Which means this "link to the past remake" included a Pond with a Large Fairy or female from the SNES Version.... So maybe they thought remixing that was funny when it js not but yes this is NOT New it happens in Link to the past which this new game is based on.
What?
@Tblazer ik i watched the video
As an overweight guy, I honestly don't understand the whole issue. I remember some star and her family did a photo of their thinness, and captioned it 'what's your excuse' I gave it a like, but it was on the news and even taken down by facebook.
I think it was clever how they changed the scene, too. I guess some people are affected by this sort of thing more than others.
I am also a little on the chubby side, and don’t personally take offense to it, but I still don’t blame others if they do
hell, the line where the zora says she's still attractive pretty much removes anything offensive about the scene. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as long as you arent so thin or fat that it's killing you (as in restricting yourself from walking if the latter) then theres no right or wrong body type.
@@supersmashbro596 well it still suggests that you cannot be beautiful and overweight. The couple comments from the zoras don't change that: "everyone else may think you're hideously disgusting but I don't!" that doesn't make it better
People are far more likely to get offended over things they already know they are doing wrong than the things they can do nothing about.
The media in America is driven by whiners, what did you expect?
It doesn't seem like they removed it because of fat shaming probably more the fat fetishist of the one Zora seriously I swear the one wanted the queen to stay that way and wanted to do stuff with her chunkier body
wtf
@@anonymousfilipino3232 Well, the Japanese version implies that.
Probably not they could of just changed that ones dialogue it is probably a combination
All of this is very interesting, but what really piqued my curiosity is the somewhat smurfesque way the Zora speak in the original version. I wonder why they changed that for the English translation and now I'm also wondering if this particular tag is also present in any other games where the Zora have speaking roles.
5:10 the mission to get the shiny stone is like in animal crossing when you keep going from villager to villager finding it's been borrowed by someone else until you are at the first villager's next door neighbor finally getting the item you need to return.
This is really interesting because it made me think of how one of the things that turned me off from Triforce Heroes was it's focus on beauty, sure it didn't go about it the same way but I wasn't thrilled by a game that's main focus was the princess not being beautiful anymore and treating it like the end of the wors
I thought the plot was satirical lol
Bodyshaming is a sensitive topic, but hear me out. I don't like hearing my wife (who is Japanese and understands that culture, for context) feeling hurt because she thinks she's fat (she isn't). Hearing her sat that she's not pretty enough or something breaks my heart... however, the U.S. especially tends to try to counter that in the wrong way by implying that fat = ideal or that fat = healthy, which I disagree with. Ideally, we are living healthier life styles and staying within good weight levels. I want her knowing she's beautiful slim or heavier, but I also want her around for as long as possible feeling healthy as possible. When it comes to body shape, that's actually a completely different story as you should love your own body and respect others' either way. What I'm talking about is more of weight and diets that keep us from being healthy and that cause long term health problems.
Edit: I'm not singling out all or even a majority of Americans. I am American. I don't know much about cultures outside of Japan or the U.S., so I can't speak for them. I can speak about what I hear or observe from my own country's culture. Maybe I'm wrong or generalizing things, but like I said, it's a sensitive topic. My main message is love your body, regardless of shape or size, but also take care of it.
I think you are misinterpreting the messages of people sharing love for their bodies and other peoples' bodies. It is not about health. We know that being dangerously overweight is bad. But being a "healthy" weight isn't accessible to a lot of people, especially in the US! Unhealthy food is a lot cheaper + easier than healthy food. Many people dont have the money or time to eat healthier or go to the gym. No one is saying "Yes! Be morbidly obese! That is going to give you a long and healthy life! That is ideal!" It's more like people are trying to share love for bodies that are looked down upon. Also, what's healthy for one person might be unhealthy for another. I'm naturally skinny and I'm aware that I'm unhealthy, but no one looks at me and goes "ah, you unhealthy person, you are going to die soon because of your weight." Ofc thats more intense than what you're trying to imply- but I hope my message was able to get across? Just be mindful of how you interpret body positivity and acceptance. It's not as black and white as you think. A lot of people are just making the most of what they have and trying to love themselves.
Just because a small minority movement (The idiots known as the fat acceptance movement) say that being fat is healthy dosen’t mean the rest of us Americans think that way tho. Maybe the Californians at best, but still
@@kaoru9829 "Being a 'healthy' weight isn't accessible."
I disagree. Certain diets are definitely cheaper or easier, but that's the point. You don't have to eat those foods. It isn't necessarily more expensive to buy fresher or lower calorie foods, for example, just harder for a lot of people, which I get, but choosing to eat that extra piece of dessert, etc., is still a choice. Not an easy one (if it was, we wouldn't have this issue in our country), but it's not 'unaccessible." I've literally tried eating better on the same grocery budget, and I actually found that I was spending LESS because of factors like eating out less and not spending more on extra sweets etc. Unless you have a rare exception with how your body works, I don't find it healthy to be encouraging that. I don't think people are just trying to "share love for bodies that are different." In my experience, it has had more to do with accepting lifestyles that are potentially hazardous to your health. I'm not talking about just "morbidly obese." I'm talking about even being obese, period, which is proven to cause higher chances of declined health, diabetes, mental health, etc. Why would I wish that on anybody? I'm not misinterpreting anything. I just don't want people to necessarily equate slim/etc body shape with beauty, but I also don't want people to use that as an excuse to continue with lifestyle practices that could endanger their health in the long run. Yes, love your body, its shape, everything, but also show that by taking care of it.
@@mroversteer3739 If you understand that, then I am not referring to you. Sorry, "tends to" is overly general I agree. I've heard this here more than other places because obesity is a large issue in the U.S., and it has a lot to do with our diets, culture, and everyday life choices. It's something I need to work as well, so I can't be a hypocrite about that. I'm just trying to emphasize that this message, this culture is out there, and that it is using something good (love your body, respect others' bodies/shapes too) to justify something hazardous (being at unhealthy weights due to eating, etc. habits is okay because it's just a different body shape). Hopefully that's not the majority of people or even some people, but it's just a reality and a struggle for many people. I don't want people to feel bad about their bodies, but I do hope they take care of them.
They’re not saying fat is better or ideal. Even if they did, it would be skinny people. Now, there’s a new movement called body neutral which is about accepting yourself instead of saying “I am beautiful” :)
that one Zora likes them big, he likes them chunky
he likes them round, he likes them plumpy
Wii fit calling people obese isn’t mean that’s just based on BMI people over a certain BMI are considered medically obese.
I guarantee if the roles were reversed and it was King Zora the dialogue would never have been changed. In fact in most of the Zelda games where there is a King he is usually fatter than the other Zoras.
Those changes were completely unnecessary.
and annoying.
To me it was just a throwback to the fat fairy in the dark world of a link to the past lol
It's also kind of a throwback to many of the Zora leaders being fat (lookin' at you King Zora from OoT).
I don't remember the scene's Dialogue well, but I think it's probably close to the Japanese Version here in Germany due to the "Smooth Stone" being called "Schmeichelstein" (literally "flattery stone") which implies that the Queen's slim appearance is an illusion/magical formchange.
There is something else about the scene that worries me way more each time I see it though.
Why does her pool look poisonous when the stone is stolen? Given that we are at the source of most, if not all, drinking water in the country that seems to be way more of an issue in my book...
Idk how I missed this upload but I'm excited. I love your content.
When I was younger and played ALBW for the first time this scene actually scared me and I was pretty reliefed when I finally saved her lol
I don't think the game is implying that fat=ugly, nor is that one Zora saying that he likes Oren being fat was a joke. I mean even if Oren was turned "beautiful" again all the Zoras including her are still ugly creatures (in terms on what the people of this game sees). Now if the game actually implied that fat=ugly, then that would be very offensive. The problem is that Americans are too sensitive with a lot of things. And I've heard that fish do usually eat until they either pop or if there isn't any food left, and a gem can be used to keep the alive. Thought that was interesting.
Anyway with this discovery of the translation, this implies that the giant fat Oren we first encounter when we enter Zora's Domain is basically her true self. I mean the Smooth Gem (Smooth Smooth Stone) was literally implied that it was her secret to her beauty. Meaning that she's not trying to take her time and try to make herself beautiful in any honest way, and that she's basically taking the short cut. Now I'm not trying to be offensive I don't care about body types. I'm just saying that if Oren wanted to be beautiful and if the characters (the Seven Sages) had more development then perhaps she would have tried to become pretty the legit way. Or for some reason she'd be fine with who she is. But hey what do I know I'm just a gamer who plays video games and watches videos about video games.
But I'm not saying that fat shaming is okay, and body positivity is not cool as well because that just makes your body worse. There is a limit to what is healthy and what isn't. Slim is not healthy because your not adding fiber or nutrients in your body, normal is just normal it means your good, muscular is healthy as well, but having too much muscles is not healthy at all and means your putting too much pressure into yourself, fat is just a over your weight a bit you can still be active and be close to normal, but obesity is very unhealthy because your basically risking your own health with overeating or not keeping your body at a safe wait distance.
And if you want to add a fat character to your TV show, cartoon, anime, comic, or video game, there is such thing as moral messages that impact or be relatable to other people. Or you just want that kind of character to be a regular character along with your other characters. Even though everyone can be different sometimes, we're still human beings.
Maybe the "smooth gem" is really the Zora version of Slim Fast? :D Santa from Santa Clause 2: You don't know how fast...
Because she is a fish. Fish tend to eat until they pop or there's no fish food left. So they need a gem to stay alive... All fish do, yes! Yes, of course they do! A friend of mine had an aquarium and inside of it was a chest, I'm sure the gem was in it. This makes the game so much more realistic! Because fish need gems. Buy gems to fish! Buy gems! Gems... :D
gems
I used to go to an under built private school in Hawaii and our gym was not very big. We would be outside most of the time. When it rained though, we would go inside and play either Just Dance or do a body test on Wii Fit. The kid in front of me was the first to go. The teacher had the volume on max and it said *THAT’S OBESE* in front of everyone. Poor kid
Not sure I see it as fat shaming, she literally gains what looks like 400+ pounds, which would be dangerously unhealthy. That's not even "normal" weight for the obese here in the US.
It's not about the amount of weight., it is the concept of slim=beautiful, fat=ugly. That is fat shaming. Saying she eats more because she's bigger is fat shaming. Mocking her and pretending to like her more bigger is fat shaming. You're just finding a way to justify it, as most people do. It's the same premise as constantly showing black people and people with disfigurements as villians. That takes a toll on people mentally and if you don't understand that, you're most likely not a minority.
So why are fat people "fat" in first place? If it is not because of an eating disorder. Magic?
@@bepal2703 metabolism can also contribute
@@TheExigency Personally I think you're taking this way too seriously. It's a video game.
@@TheExigency fat people aren't beautiful
And this is why it's called localisation, not only translation. You need to take into account cultural differences when you release a product globally. Here in Hong Kong, it's quite common to greet someone you haven't seen for a long time and casually mention their appearance, such as "You've put on weight". I only played the US version of Link Between Worlds, so don't know if the Chinese version still contains the fat/slim/beauty references of that quest line.
I don't think there was a Chinese version back in those days. It wasn't really a thing until around 2016 when Pokemon Sun/Moon became one of the first big Nintendo games to receive full Chinese translations
@@Onionion852 The 3DS had localised games for the HK market, at least all the big titles. There were Hong Kong versions of games during the Xbox 360/PS3 generation too, and in the past, such games were classed as "Asian Versions"
The French version kept the original text. Most likely because France suffers less from malnutrition than North America
And to be fair, the translation isn't really what made me cringe, but the fat joke itself. I mean, it would be hypocrite to say she's not more beautiful once slim, but that subject could be avoided.
From one part, there's America being oversensitive not recognizing there's a huge malnutrition issue in their country (I'm talking globally, not to individuals), and from another part, there's this constant harassment to fat people in media.
This ALBW joke isn't appropriate in the first place, no matter the translation
So true, I remember back then during a school trip in France I was like "why every man looks so stylish and beautiful lol".
@@EtheRenard It's a big part of the joke that the zora are ugly regardless of size. If the joke simply stated that "fat=ugly" then it would indeed be cringe and unfunny.
Shoutout to that one Zora who thirsted for the Queen when she was big
Your channel is so underrated, you put so much hard work into it videos, and they are pretty interesting! Keep up the good work! U deserve 1 mil subs by now tbh
This was a good video zora... thank you for posting it zora
Great video as always, Thomas. I love these deep dives into topics from Nintendo development history especially when it’s something that I haven’t seen covered before.
4:37 this fish has a fat fetish
As soon as you started talking about Zora’s domain I knew you would start talking about the queen.
Shes needs a diet
ngl, the "Auf Wiedersehen, Tschüss" at the end caught me offguard.
Hauste rein Chef, wie immer geiles Video! o7
5:46 that noise 💀
I’m glad that the Zora kinda liked the Zora even if she was overweight because I don’t mind big girls either
Same.
Im ok with both skinny and overweight People
I kinda like 'em squishy too.
I don't get what's wrong with saying that the Queen's faster at a slimmer size. That's just hydrodynamics???
ikr
Oh yeah. I remember hearing about this before but I forget where
The latin american spanish translation is in line with the english translation (makes sense since both are made in the Treehouse), I wonder if the european spanish version is more in line with the original japanese text
Breath of the Wild meanwhile had lots of NPC's of different sizes and apperances which was nice to see.
Yesss
I remember the BMI thing on the Wii Fit. I created my character profile thing as a kid, and the thing was . . . I didn't know how to change the height once it was set. So as I got older and gained weight because, you know, getting taller just adds mass to you in general, the game started thinking I was overweight and then obese.
Since my metabolism is shit to the point that some kids would ask me if I had anorexia, it was pretty jarring.
I kind of think the weight aspect of it is unnecessary. The use of the games were balance, exercising different muscle groups, and just getting you and your kids moving around in general, not to be a dieting program. Seems especially weird that the "underweight" category is blue-green while the "ideal" category is yellow. The color theory on that implies that underweight is the most desirable category, or at least not a dangerous one. As someone whose hip bones hurt from sitting down because my ass was 0% padding, um, no. Being underweight is painful and causes medical complications in its own right.
I played the game in American and japanese but never noticed that thanks for telling us
I PLAYED A LINK BETWEEN WORLDS AND I DIDN’T REALIZE THIS
She's not fat, she's _bloated,_ like what happened to Violet Beauregarde, there's a different; if people can't understand that, it's on them. 🙄 Kirby gets big when he inflates too, are they angry about that? 😒
This video! 🙄👎
Um did you not watch the video.... I don't think you know about Japan's impossible standards for woman too.
Only in america could this be offensive. It is right though the french version is close to the Japanese one.
absolutely agree, but its comprehensible knowing that like 70% of the people in usa is overweight
to be frank as an american it's not all that offensive, especially because one zora admits shes still attractive. beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and theres no right or wrong body to have provided it's not killing you.
Nice wanted to play this when it came out... I should have 🤣🤣 so I draw miss Zora thickums 🥰
not only the translator took away the shaming But they also added an Actual issue a Real problem something worth of doing all the side quest! like why would one bother to help someone become ''beautiful'' again if they are trying to Save the land?!
There's a lot of Nintendo channels but you talk about stuff nobody else talks about so your stuff is different and refreshing if there are Nintendo channels that talks about this stuff I never saw one except for yours
Imagen if this was in wii fit
Is the “smooth smooth gem” in the Japanese translation supposed to be referencing the smooth smooth fruit used by Alvida in One Piece? It has the same effect of her losing weight and becoming more “beautiful” after eating it
ONE MID
Hey, im not sure if you'd still be answering comments about a video from a year ago, but what music did you use for the intro, from about 0:00 to 0:48? It feels familiar, and maybe im overthinking this or overlooking some obvious track that id forgotten, but i didn't see a link to the background music used and decided to write up a comment.
I'm glad nintendo got their act together with botw by including Gerudo of varying weights with (to my knowledge) no negative dialog, unless that was translated as well
And hylians too.
Many people reading this comment who are not fat, who do not feel fat and who have never been made feel fat on their whole lives, are probably going to be called fat in Japan.
Japan is a very weight sensitive culture, their society is very hostile towards people who are not STRICTLY skinny, and this is worse for women.
Regardless of whether America's view of fat people is right or wrong, Japan its still a worrying case.
this is a very interesting case of how two cultural visions collide and the decision that a small group of translators had to make.
when I played the game for the first time, I also felt a bit uncomfortable, I knew the whole scene was intented to be funny but it didn't make me laugh, felt like a bad taste joke you usually find in older media, when you can only ignore what happened and say "yes, those times were something"
Yeah I don't think people understand how big a deal being 'fat' is in Japan and east Asia in general. If you're average weight you're fat. Everyone around you will comment on it and tell you to lose weight. You will get in trouble with boss's and teachers for being 'fat' when you may not actually even be overweight. Most people in this comment section really don't get it and brush this off as just like 'sensitive snowflakes' when they really have no idea what's going on.
This comment needed more likes.
In the US version, I believe you can just get the smooth-smooth fruit back from the thief by just knocking it out of him and then grabbing it from there to give back to the queen.
Played it in french and while i remember the scene, through out the video i kept wondering if it was changed when i played it too, because honestly either versions made sense with me. I think that with european audiances that scene resonates more with fairytales than fatshaming
The french version actually kept this line !
Something i'm bothered with is *cultural differences* between the world. See, Japan and US have different cultures of beauty and status (i'm using this case as example) but some people didn't like it and demands to be changed ... why ? I know that, as in US' culture, that's kinda offensive and i'm fine with that change but implying Nintendo was .. bullying (?) the fans isn't something fair to say.
Being fat is considered ugly in the US. In that regard, americans are not different from the rest of the world, the whole PC culture thing is just hiding the truth in order to create a fantasy world where everyone is beautiful, and denying anything that might be slightly offensive at any scale. It's a disease, to be honest. I'm also fine with the censorship, it's a safe move for Nintendo, but the issue with PC culture stands.
3:42 That’s the guy who translated Mother 3 for the unofficial translation patch
Your "Aufwiedersehen" was very cute :) Greetings from a German
There's a balancing act. You have to keep the integrity of the game, but also please your audience. I think what they did worked just fine. It was treated as a serious situation and the queen was returned to normal. Honestly, it reminded me of the fat Fairy in the Golden Pyramid in A Link To The Past, where she claims that Ganon's power is what made her look like that.
Was that really worth a video?
I kinda wish they would just translate the original story cause if they change it it kinda felt like its not the story anymore or soooo cause some game like ocarina of time in korea its a different story its not like translated into the original story so when me and my japanese friend would compare my friend would say that link did not say that on that game or so i just want the game to be translated the same as the original or maybe similar caus eits kinda misleading sometimes uou will just get a different story
I'm surprised that Banjo-Kazooie and its plot didn't receive a mention here. Look at what happens to Grunty and Tooty in the Game Over sequence...
Honestly the Containing Powers part of the dialogue sounds cooler to me.