Have YOU lost your cockpit virginity? [Part 2]
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Video contents:
00:00 - Hot topic (no, not that one)
00:43 - Cockpit is the people's choice & HUD
01:02 - The hoodlums
01:25 - Not all cockpits are created equal
01:54 - Bonnet is more realistic?
02:45 - First person is very popular
02:57 - CHASU SAN & Spatial Awareness
03:27 - Check your attitude
04:19 - Tool 1: The Spotter
04:46 - Tool 2: The Radar
05:43 - Dashingly not-so-handsome
06:45 - The wheel deal
07:28 - FOV POLICE
09:19 - Look to apex
09:44 - The least wrong
10:18 - Mentionings of honour
10:46 - My name's Paul, and this is between y'all
Music used:
Water by stimwise | / stimwise
Cosmic Revelation by Jascha Dachtera feat. Arian P. | / jdachtera
Wilderness by Filo Starquez | / @filostarquez
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons / Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0)
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - เกม
![Should YOU drive from the cockpit? [Part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jFRdPQbK5Oc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Should YOU drive from the cockpit? [Part 1]](/img/tr.png)
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Part 1 can be seen here; th-cam.com/video/jFRdPQbK5Oc/w-d-xo.html
You should try set pov as calculated then only adjusting seating position. 8:48
@@tengkuiskandar5611 I did adjust the seating position. If I left the seating position untouched then it was even more zoomed in.
consider picking up a used quest 2 or something so you could at least add something to the conversation.
if you shop smart, you can sell it again afterwards for the same as you paid, essentially allowing you to gain the knowledge for free. so there is hardly any excuse not to.
and once you realise that its the only viewport that makes sense, you'll understand why i think the rest of the discussion is pointless.
you might as well have a debate whether its more realistic to driver with a paper bag over your head, or looking through a mailbox slot. pointless debate. how about neither?
The fact that some people actually said that when you drive, you can’t see the cockpit of the car is HYSTERICAL 😂😂😂😂
It's certainly one of the opinions of all time 🤷♂️
@@DiariesOfABadDriver loving the videos mate, keep em coming!
made me wonder what kind of eye sight they have to be that tunnel visioned.
It is not hysterical, it is true. It is all about FOV. Scroll to 8:48 this is how it looks in real life, to include the cockpit you need much bigger screen, if you prefer to include the cockpit it looks like you are driving from the back seat. And it is not about 3 screens as the height of the screen is also important.
@@TimurKaramov In simulators, you have to compromise between how "it looks in real life" and what is actually usable. The way that eyeballs interpret visual data is entirely different to how games express it, plus you can't actually turn your eyes in the game. If the FOV were actually accurate, you'd be able to see almost directly to your side while looking at the road ahead. While driving, you do focus on the road ahead, but there's no need to simulate that in the game since you do it yourself.
On the "Bonnet is more realistic" section; while I fully agree that in a real car, the cockpit takes up most of your peripheral vision, I also think that in a sim, it is redundant to see the cockpit as you already have a steering wheel in your peripheral. This is why I prefer bonnet/dash cams in most sims I play, as I treat the monitor as my "windshield" and let my setup act as the "cockpit". This may also be the case for people with physical dash displays for showing RPM, speed, gear, etc... but I can't confirm as I don't own one.
Plus depending on your setup you just can't use the cockpit cam because you would barely be able to see the road
My favorite is to just turn the steering wheel off from the game, it kinda adds to my immersion if I see the dashboard and my wheel is somewhat properly aligned. Then again I overall prefer driving from the cockpit. I feel like I see everything I need to see and it adds to my immersion.
I have the same logic... I mostly drive with bonnet/dash cam because it feels "the most realistic" physically. As you said, the tv is the windshield. But lately I am trying to adjust to the dash/cockpit, depends on a car (I mostly play AC), as some cars are decent and some are bad to drive from cockpit cam.
Guess the VR is the most realistic regarding the visual feeling, but it has it's own problems... :)
If ingame cockpit cam is set to ingame driver perspective, then real YOU feels like driving from the car's backseat, because it adds another distance you monitor. Thats why hood cam feels more natural.
@@lumixpepper yep, especially as someone that uses a normal sized monitor more than arms length away from me, it's just way too awkward and hard to see from cockpit cam
"the benefits of chase cam is not realistic" wait until I drive my car with fpv googles with a drone following me
or just have one of those 360 cameras hooked up to the back?
I just hope you'll get your license revoked swiftly - or better still, preventively...
@@getsideways7257 bro jelly
@@getsideways7257 safety is for people who can’t drive. LAUNCH THE FUCKING DRONE
@@maximilianl4453 You mean ABS, TCS, ESC and the other acronyms are for people who can't drive? And the drones are for people without any life at all...
Cockpit for sims for immersion, chase cam for arcades for fun
inaccuracy isn't that fun tho, third person is like having keys jingled in front of your face and grown folks dont need that.
@@TommTooTone Thats your opinion. Thanks for sharing.
@@Niggaihate thats a fact buddy, you have to see the car all the time or youll forget what car it is. third person is like hip fire and we all know that noobs love to hip fire. aiming down sight is more accurate. these are not opinions.
I think you'll find that they are, in fact, opinions.
@@DiariesOfABadDriver good one dude that was so well put together how could anyone refute that? you idiots are confusing immersion and awareness with accuracy thats cute. im done here.
Here is what I think in regards to this hot topic:
Cockpit is realistic, but the amount of obscurity is too much, and the fov being off can completely ruin the experience.
The issue is when you play racing games, you are simulating 3 dimensions on a 2 dimensional screen. This makes it really hard to make depth perception judgements.
When I started driving in a real car on public roads, I immediately noticed that I could see much further because of it being real.
In games, the amount that you see is so crucially important, I know why people use hood view. Its because some games have horrible cockpit fov, and you need to have a better view of the road.
From a realism pov, cockpit is more realistic, but you desperately need to adjust the fov for the game you are playing.
Something that a lot of games suffer from too is the cockpit camera being at the wrong place. While a lot of newer games allow you to set it yourself, I'm used to older games where you can't. Most often, the camera is far too low, as if you're four feet tall.
I noticed vr sim racing is much easier simply because of that
@@Amazinglyultra I've had this too, he said in the video he is always aware of the cockpit however in vr I kind of phase it out. Also it helps a ton as I can actually look at the apex of the corner or if I get side by side with someone, I can turn my head to look at them or turn to look in the mirrors which definitely helps a lot.
Not just the FoV alone, but also the camera placement and inclination.
unless you have a triple monitor setup, cockpit will always be lackluster in terms of visability
I use the bonnet cam, mainly because I want my monitor to act as the front windshield in a way, and my real life surroundings as the cockpit.
Using the cockpit cam just feels like having two cockpits obstructing my view.
Agreed. With a racing wheel and a big enough screen, the bonnet cam can be uncanny in some games
Exactly
its totaly stupid ,,, its the main excuse i read , and your just as dumb,, ITS WHAT YOU SEE IN A REAL CAR, YOU NEED THE DAMN DASH OF THE CAR YOU DRIVE IN THE GAME'' ANYTHING ELS MAKE THIS UNREAL DUMB ''
right on!
That make non srns you dont se 1 a bit of what is in a real car noyhing you NEVER GONNA SEE IN A REAL CAR AND SUCK LIKE NOT A RALLY CAR DRIVER POSTLIFOLION.. YOU ARE LOOKING TROUGH A CENTER POTITION CAR WITCH IS NOT.. AND YOU SUCK.
Without watching the video yet. My take on FOV is to set it just wide enough to see the entire left mirror.
The issue there is that because the mirrors sit further forward or back, or are wider or narrower between different cars, you'd end up with different FOVs for everything. I think it's best to set a uniform fov for all and then adjust the camera position to get it as close to your liking from there.
I use chase cam because I like watching my cool car do cool things. My driving is leagues better in any first person mode, be it hood, bumper, or cockpit, but none of them put a smile on my face quite as much as seeing the back of my car as it flies across the track. And to me, thats a lot more important. As youve said yourself, we play these games to have fun, so we should play them in ways we find fun :)
Well said
I think that the hood view is the most realistic because the screen is basically the windshield
I think that depends a lot on where your screen is situated relative to your wheel.
Also if you're driving in rain, the hood is less realistic because you don't get the appropriate visibility penalty that you would in a real car or cockpit/dash view.
I wish more games would allow you to offset the camera angle so it would be on the left or right side depending on what side the wheel is on.
Do you sit in the middle of your car IRL? For me that 's the biggest turnoff of bonnet/hood cam. In a real car you would be offset to the left (or right if you're on the RHD countries), and that makes a considerable difference in how you judge your position and distances. Being able to be on the dead center of a car that isn't a McLaren F1 or a open wheeler for example just feels of to me. Also if you could see your entire hood IRL, parallel parking would be much easier lol
Well this dont really matter to me because I am using vr while playing
For a RHD country driver, bonnet cam is much better than LHD. Most of the cars in games are LHD and there should be an option to change to RHD.
In your previous video you convinced me about the radar. I had the same feeling about the "Look left" and "Look right" buttons. It's either too slow or too disorienting because it's very unnatural compared to actually turning your head.
I can't even recall mentioning the radar before at all (maybe my memory is just going), but glad to hear I'm not the only one!
Taking the extra hour or so it takes to get used to driving with cockpit view will transform your experience
"Playing in cockpit is a more realistic driving experience"
*me who can't drive*: I don't have such weakness
It’s not a weakness, it’s an advantage. As has been described in great detail over these two videos.
When you do start driving a real car, and you will, you’ll start to find driving in followcam so alien to you that you’ll end up switching to either bonnet or cockpit. You won’t enjoy the experience as much and that’s what gaming is all about.
Not being able to drive is a pretty big weakness.
So I’m one of those race gamers who do play in chase camera, and that’s just a personal choice of mine when it comes to playing racing games. Especially since that I like to customize my car sometimes and admire the work of art! Though I do play in cockpit every once in a while especially if I want more of a “realistic” challenge. Oh and I also like how some racing games where your driver’s head turns when you’re about to enter a corner (like the helmet cam in NFS Shift 2 for example). It kinda mimics the way as I would be doing it in real life.
But in all honesty no matter what kind of camera angle I use, it’s just a video game one way or another. Also if I wanted a more realistic experience I would just hop on a go-kart IRL and have fun with that! 😅
Yeah this video doesn't really talk about how in less serious games and free roam games chase cam allows you to take in the game world as a whole which is why I use it Forza Horizon and other arcade games. Don't really care to be "in the car" when the game isnt trying to really simulate anything (except for occasional banter).
Depends on what your playing for, have fun and do what you want by all means, but some people like myself are looking to translate Sim skills into irl, just like any pro driver these days. I mainly drift and chase cam doesn't translate very well to irl, your perception in real life is completely different and only some of the muscle memory skills will translate. Making it easier than without Sim but in cockpit you can translate almost 1:1 to irl and use the Sim as "free" seat time saving you thousands on repairs, tires and fuel.
mommy jingle the keys in front of me im getting bored.
@@randomnoises8726 Well he explained it where he said "expectation", in forza, someone can expect it to be a sim of a real car, example he paint a car he owns in real life and want to drive in Forza IDK, could be anything.
Personally when I play on Gamepad I run chase cams, when I play with a wheel I use cockpit/dashboard or anything that puts me closer to the real view I would have with that said wheel
@@RaphpowerSGSUModding Not what I'm talking about. He doesnt talk about enjoying racing games outside of a simulation perspective and why people use external cameras in those contexts.
At most he talks about having a "different attitude" tacitly excluding opinions that don't revolve around real world accuracy from the topic. I can only assume its because those perspectives dont matter to him. But they are relevant to the topic of veiwpoint choice because some people proritise visibility, fun, etc so obviously it makes sense for them to pick a different cam or FoV.
I never even bothered to see how many subs you had before you mentioned in this video. Instantly subscribed, I just watched part 1 before going to this video, and I'm so surprised you don't have more subs than you do. Your level of editing, calmness and how easy your points are to understand just puts your content at such high quality, it's incredible. Please keep making content!
Thanks so much! I'm currently unable to sleep due to some food poisoning so this was a nice pick-me-up. Much appreciated :) And don't worry, more videos are on the way
@@DiariesOfABadDriver I'm very sorry to hear that you've gotten food poisoning, but I'm more than happy if I could give you any kind of motivation, you deserve to see success from your efforts! I'm stoked to hear more videos will be coming, can't wait to watch them!
Another banger as per usual. Keen for more as always and im still waiting for community discord ;)
The problem I have with cockpit mode is that in some games even if you boost the seat up, it feels like I'm a toddler sitting at the wheel and the top of the dashboard is almost at my eye level. Also in some games like EA WRC and WRCG, when you're in the cockpit the windows seem tinted or something. And the road doesn't look as bright or detailed as it does when viewing from the bonnet cam.
I still enjoy both, but if I want to set a killer time on a Rally stage. I'll usually go for bonnet view. Definitely helps with depth perception issues and being able to tell where the front of your car ends.
Very nice video, you noted every major aspect in amazing to hear manner
Thank you, Bruce! Much appreciated
while growing up i always used the bonnet camera, as soon as i started taking everything more seriously i switched to the cockpit. Honestly if you're searching for realism it's the only correct choice, but if you don't care literally no one will give you shit
Another thing for awareness i'd like to add in just for those want the ability to have a head track there is free options or extremely cheap options out there, if you can pick up a good high refresh rate webcam ( xbox connect camera is like 120hz and can be got for less than $10) there is a few programs that can implement it for free such as open track and AI track they may not be perfect but can be tuned well enough for shoulder/mirror checks and relatively good apex tracking rather than having to sink a few hundred into the full track IR setup when you dont even know if its for you or not
Damn man i was rolling a j while watching i didn't even noticed u have 2k subs, very very good work man keep it up man 🫶
Thanks bro, appreciate it!
at the end it just boils down to the satisfaction of your gameplay, immersion doesn't matter when you can't enjoy it. Cheers
I like this video and the previous. Good job man.
I appreciate it!
@@DiariesOfABadDriver haha. Yeh buddy, commenting to hopefully get this algorithm going for ya! Subbed too. Can't wait to see what your channel has in the future and I wish you TH-cam success, if that's what you want. 🤣❤️
@@chima451 Well my newest video is premiering this evening, hope you enjoy it!
@@DiariesOfABadDriver the topics you cover are real interesting. My dad has a simrig and has been into that stuff for years and cars in general, mostly rally. I'm finally coming around to learning and listening to the hobby of racing games and simracing. I appreciate the way you try to include a wide range audience. For example not forcing people to choose a camera angle because that is absolutely a preference at least in terms of casual gaming. Let people have fun!
Oh man cockpit cam in a good VR. Headset is next level and game changing
Someone else has probably already told you this, but thank you for uploading videos in ultrawide format
There's certainly no issue in repeating it! You're very welcome, and thanks for the kind words!
I use the cockpit cam most of the time (as i've previously said, it helps me as a mouse driver), but i usually try to shake things up a bit and change cameras. That said, i don't like how incredibly stiff some cameras are in some games.
Also, loving the videos mate. I really enjoy how calm the are, a breath of fresh air during the times of 60 second shorts ☠️.
The gameplay footage in the background is also pretty good, and this wider aspect ratio fills my phone screen pretty well ngl. Keep the good work up
Thanks, Felipe, glad you're enjoying them!
Out of curiosity, what games do you play with the mouse? I've never tried it and would be curious to give it a try at some point.
@@DiariesOfABadDriver Basically anything lol.
But i've played (with the mouse):
1. BeamNG;
2. ETS2;
3. Assetto Corsa;
4 Live for Speed
Among others. It's weird at first, but imo it's better than a keyboard
How tf do you drive a mouse they are too big to be ridden
@@Endidixknsej I see what you did there. Clever pun ngl
@@felipeferreira00 🤣🤣seriously tho what do you mean as a mouse driver
After decades of playing racing games I got bored. Few weeks ago I found something that was completely new to me: the cockpit view! I also turned off the HUD and all assists to make the experience as real and hard as it can be.
I can say that the fun is back and I am happy again. I also make videos how I try to handle it -with more or less success.
Nice to hear that it reinvigorated racing games for you, that's great!
if you think that's immersive, try VR
@@houseking9211 VR along with a good racing wheel and pedals would be awesome
I saw someone else mention this already, but I'll echo it. As someone who watches videos almost exclusively in theatre mode, I really appreciate the wider aspect ratio of the videos. Not sure why, but I dont like fullscreen and the default view is a little too small, so theatre mode has always been my go-to. Having a video go from edge to edge is nice while still keeping some awareness of the rest of the screen. Also, great video! Both this and part 1! Hope to see more from you and to see your channel grow, keep at it man!
Thanks so much, I appreciate the encouragement! Glad you enjoy the ultrawide, too.
Ive gone back and forth between cockpit and bonnet camera here and there, as someone with a smaller screen which is also set not massively far away but a good distance from my actual head i'll give my take. I will use cockpit where I feel it is enjoyable, viable and I can see perfectly out of the cars windscreen (most basic road cars or open wheelers) and I tend to use the bonnet camera in a lot of the proper race cars / super cars as I find the windshield is considerabley shorter in height (be it due to how flat these cars are) therefore finding it difficult to actually get any information when it come to corners etc. I have driven in VR and that should always and only be driven in cockpit mode with arms on, because otherwise it just feels extemely strange especially if someone has motion sickness. Ive driven VR in chase just to see what its like and its very very weird. Great informative videos dude, hope your channel continues to grow!
That's a very reasonable take! And thanks, I appreciate the kind words!
I actually totally see your points and even though I'm mostly a cockpit cam guy, as you mentioned it also really depends on the attitude and intention.
When I want to just drive for fun without focusing on speed I usually use cockpit camera with quite large head movement. In my opinion that can add quite a bit of immersion on a smaller screen like I have (22" 16:9). When I'm in a more serious race and want to concentrate on speed a camera with close to no movement is the way to go for me. It helps me focus on the apex and the cars around me.
And if a game has a bad interior cam (Forza for example because they can't make a wheel animation work properly with wheels....) I use the hood cam, but I really only use it when the cockpit cam is unusable for me. Also when I just want to admire the car or the graphics I use chase cam. For racing I think it's terrible because I'm always getting distracted and can't feel the car that well, but when I just want to chill a bit and look at the scenery it's obviously the best.
As for UI, when I'm racing I prefer having a few of them, such as a radar and a map (and in some cars a tachometer), but otherwise I usually clear as much as I can because it raises the immersion a lot on a small screen.
But to be fair I haven't driven a real car yet, only karts, so I might be totally wrong about what feels realistic.
One interesting thing is that some race cars are using somewhat of a radar system IRL now. Using an actual radar, GT cars that have a rear view camera, will have large arrows pointing out the cars, and can possibly also indicate when there's a car outside the camera's view. I know BMW uses it on the M4 GT3
It makes sense given how many sensors and cameras and whatnot that modern road cars have that they would make their way into the racing world, too.
trust me bro the speed sensation will trickle down any moment now ‼
Just a few more laps...
When I first started learning drifting in the sim, I used the chase cam to see when my rear started to step out. Compared to drifting IRL, drifting in a sim is much harder and way less intuitive, since you have absolutely no way of noticing g-forces and all the feedback you get is through your steering wheel. IRL however, you do most of the reading of your cars behavior via g-forces, so I had to re-learn how to drift, by only reading the feedback from the wheel. Using the chase cam as a visual aid helps a lot for that. Now that I can drift just fine, I'm using cockpit and also started using VR a few months ago, which really is a total gamechanger.
I've always used the hood cam due to an unnatural lack of visibility in the cockpit cam( I know there is pov adjustmentin some, but it just feels kind of removed from the experience), plus having the force feedback wheel already in front of me. In irl I usually tune out all the surrounding stuff and I'm mainly focused on the front windshield, passenger/driver windows, and the rear view mirror, the dash and everything is there but I'm probably only really acknowledging it about 30% of the time. My opinion would most likely change if i had access to a VR setup, giving me the ability to naturally pivot and rotate my head around.
for me ive only played the F1 games and The crew Motorfest as im decently new to the scene, i also only play on controller. but for me i have recently started using cockpit cam, and its kind of natural for me, but i do agree with the limited spacial awareness so having a detection arrow in those games is really helpful, i used to use the TV pod cam (basically roof cam for a regular car) for the F1 games, since i was new and didnt think there was enough visibility, but for me when i started using cockpit cam i adjusted some of the settings like turning off the halo in the middle of my screen, increasing height and FOV, so i could see my mirrors and the track. both of those things helped tremendously. I also find that theres a much better sense of speed as your drivers head moves in the cockpit, so when i went back to try TV cam for a bit a little while ago it felt so much slower and off for me, thats another big thing. for the crew motorfest though, i usually use chase cam, its mainly because its less focused on being realistic, but the cars handling are really good still, i sometimes use cockpit cam but im indifferent about it. plus the fact that its an arcade racing game not made to be realistic. for me though i cant use hood cam, its too far forward and it gives me a weird sense of where my back end it, and with bumper cam its even worse, but thats just me personally on that one. but i think the key thing for this though is that everyone plays differently so we need to stop being so toxic when it comes to cams, assits, etc.
theres a good reason why i like using multiple different cameras
sim/realism-type games: cockpit (sometimes bonnet/hood)
arcade: usually do a chase but sometimes use a bumper/hood cam
Couldnt agree more about the a pillar, the hands and the wheel.
There's dozens of us!
I have recently found out I freaking love cockpit view without the steering wheel, like the dash board view thing. For some reason I feel much more comfortable and better then regular cockpit view where you can see your steering. But it's unfortunate that some car can barely see the cars instruments and gauges.
personally, in gt7: i use cockpit for cruising/drags, then 3rd and cockpit for drifting (depending on the map/ vibe) and then hood for racing. I use hood in racing because i feel i have a better spatial awareness when using it. also allows me to have an easier understanding of where my car is place because i can atleast see the edges of my hood, and therefore the edge of the car.
Moral of the story; Be open minded
I remember going into an rf89 van diemen and one of the first things I noticed was the lack of visibility, my dad used to race formula ford and said that it didn't matter that you couldn't see directly in front of you because you would have the track memorised and you can see from the sides. If I had to guess I would say that the amount of vision blocked in the front was about 30 degrees which is insane, imagine going from racing and being able to see in front of you, to racing where you cannot see in front of you. I thought I would mention this because it is an even bigger difference than going from 3rd person to 1st person in sim racing.
Personnally when i was a young kid i was playing a lot of V Rally on my N64. My cameras was often switching view depending on my needs. When the track was more open i used hood cam to be more realistic while having a wide view of whats in front of me and being able to judge the size of the car better. When the track was narrow; particularly the street sections; i used the highest camera setting to see more whars around me, not seeing very far in front but doesn't matter when turns are close and tight. Later i switched to the follow cam because i was doing stunts, so i needed to get the middle ground between my previous camera settings.
Honestly, the switching still make sens to me almost 20years later (was around 5 at the time). Different angles have different advantage who help in different situation. But it was rallying and more precisely, i used that switching in the race mode, racing 5 CPUs. In time attack it was mostly the hood cam when chasing a chrono and the other to have fun.
PS: I still struggle with not being in the center so not having equal distance to the sides, my brain don't like it like it can't understand it at all. Its another reason why i choose hood instead. Its a very real issue for me and part of the reason why i don't want to drive cars in real life: i'm not sure i can do it.
i’ve always used cockpit since i was a kid playing forza horizon 1 because it just felt way more responsive, like when you turn or go from turning one direction to another with chase cam the camera lags behind a little bit, so it felt way better to me in cockpit because the camera always stayed exactly centered so it was more consistent and the car just felt more responsive.
I'm not too big on sim racing myself, the closest I get to it is playing Rally 2.0 every so often.
I'm an aircraft-sim guy, so most of my experience comes from that, which is vastly different. SA is always my biggest concern for things like these, with immersion immediately after that.
The biggest reason I use the cockpit camera when I play racing games is because I feel I can judge how to enter corners much better, as compared to bonnet or chase-cameras. Bonnet cameras feel much to stiff and static, with a lot less FOV; chase cameras increase SA by a massive amount, but the trade off is that I get a lot less visual and audible feedback of the state of the car itself (i.e. tire-grip and how much throttle I should add or reduce during cornering) and the car itself blocks a part of the road directly in front of the car.
But everybody's got their own preferences or reasons for liking one over the other, I guess.
"the car itself blocks a part of the road directly in front of the car" - Ha, that's exactly the issue I have in some racing games, and it really feels like the newer the game, the higher the chances that chase cam will be too close and low, and you car will block too much of the view. It looks better (less "gamey") on screenshots and videos, but a PITA to actually play.
I mean, as the sole baseline for my opinons, to define what is "better" there is only two factors at play, the roleplay IE, realism, and how you get better feel of the car.
For example, in arcade games I tend to prefer the chaser camera, like I wouldn't play need for speed on first person even if I could, while for a more realistic racing game I enjoy going third person so I can enjoy the visuals, however, I do love going on first person, in fact, as also a player of plane games, cockpit is a must for me, it really makes you conect with the vehicle and that feeling is awesome. Going for hood is just weird and with nothing on screen at all is bizarre, boom I've said it.
The feature that i would love to see in more racing games is the "fake side mirror" where there is a side mirror shown on the screen. I've only seen this feature in euro truck simulator 2 but i think it would be a really good option in every racing game to have when you cant afford dont want using 3 screens to see the full cockpit of a car
Agreed!
As someone who is broke as hell and drives with mouse steering, cockpit cam is very important to see how much steering input I have.
I only play Dirt Rally 2.0 atm and only have a controller. I use the cockpit view exclusively and using any other view makes the car feel impossible to control. With chase cam, it feels like I'm suggesting to the car where it should go, but with the cockpit cam it feels like I'm able to directly put the car exactly where I want. I can easily tell exactly what the front end is doing plus the steering wheel helps a lot to see how much I'm actually turning. The lack of wheel in the bonnet and bumper cams is why I can't use those views, despite them still letting me easily tell where the car is pointing. It actually feels like the physics are different between cockpit and chase, even though I know for a fact it's the same, that's how much of a difference the visual feedback makes.
Something I've noticed when I play between the two camera modes, is I *feel* more comfortable in a chase cam, due to the spatial awareness. However, I know I am objectively a better driver when I'm in cockpit mode, even better if the wheel is invisible, and even better on hood-cam. It's for one primary reason.
Braking zones. I am *woeful* at having a sense for the right braking zone in chase cam, I overshoot corners constantly.
I'm not sure if this is *useful* context, but. I don't have any real-life experience driving competitively. All of my racing ability was gathered in racing video games, and of most of those games, I tend to play in chase-cam more than I do in cockpit view. But again, my skill gets a noticeable boost when I switch to cockpit or hood-cam. The sense of speed is a lot easier to read when I'm in the car
As far as tweaking FOV, I hardly touch settings like that. I know it probably is very much the wrong move, but I usually take the "The default setting is probably that for a reason, I don't see any need to change it" when it comes to changing the FOV, and my results are as they've been described. Generally poor conscience on braking zones in chase cam, noticeably better awareness in cockpit, better yet on hood-cam.
Happy to report ive been using cockpit view for awhile now and freaking love it, heck im actually a better driver cause of it; obviously not every game is the best with cockpit so I still return to chase cam every now and then but im so happy I tried it out, thanks again!! 😁
Hell yeah, glad to hear that!
I've always preferred the cockpit view for immersion. But found i was ALWAYS faster with the hood (bonnet) camera.... until i got VR.
Definitely looking forward to the video when you finally try VR sim racing. It's an absolute game changer!
that's because you can actually see where you're going in hood cam, and don't have to be 5cm away from your monitor to have realistic visability
@houseking9211 ... The size of the screen wasn't really an issue because I played on a 65" screen. It was the limited field of view. You can't see the entire right side of the car in cockpit view.
Hi @DiariesOfABadDriver -- thanks for the vids, I thoroughly enjoyed Part 1 and 2, and felt myself 'nodding' throughout. One thing I didn't see addressed in both parts, was the issue of 'lock to horizon'. What are your viewpoints on that - there are pros/cons of course to being locked / unlocked, or somewhere in-between, and what's your personal preference? Perhaps worthy of a video?
Hey, thanks! Glad you enjoyed them.
I've never actually tried lock to horizon before! I've seen it used in a few random videos before and I strongly suspect that I probably wouldn't like it, but I couldn't say beyond that.
If I ever try it and feel it's worth commenting on then I'll be sure to include it in a video
Sounds good, thanks :) I haven't fully settled on a preferred setting myself yet, but I do feel like I experience less motion sickness by applying a small amount of lock, in particular with tracks with many banks/inclines/bumps - but I still aim to experiment some more.
When i switched to true to life seat view where i could see the dashboard and mirrors, I suddenly improved at drifting by a LOT. Judging the spacial orientation of the car and how my inputs affected rotation was a lot clearer. Used the hood only view for a while back and now I can conclude that it really dampens/delays the sense of rotation, which can lead to being more aggressive over-correcting movements. I now use the interior of the cockpit to measure up to walls and lines, and can get much closer to them reliably than with hood.
I use hood cam because I just love seeing the road... It mesmerizes me in a different way than when i'm in cockpit view.
i usually and always drive on dash view like in forza horizon since the steering wheel and hands just arent realistic and bothers me but i only use dash cam so i can see the instruments with the camera infront of the steering wheel so i can see them better but i can agree the lost of side view really hits and sometimes i have to switch to know whats going on i see myself ACTUALLY paying attention to the road instead of watching cars go by my left or right side an entire race it really pulls you into the experience especially on rally type races. great video overall anyway subscribing!!!!
1:47 Small correction for GT7, you can change where you sit and even the camera angles. Those options do make a small difference and would be easy to miss. Love the video!
You can't change them per car, it's only a global option, so they're practically useless, unfortunately.
And thank you! Much appreciated :)
When i had a 17" screen, i used bumper most of the time. now with a bigger screen and sometimes vr i use cockpit cam because it is the closest thing to me driving the nordsleife like i do normally.
Everyone has his preferences :)
The cockpit camera feels better and I drive better when using it.
I guess it really depends of course on the context, but I don't think that it matters which one is better, but is a matter of what you *personally* enjoy better. It's great that we have 2 options and things are not like back in the day where most of the racing games weren't using the cockpit camera because of hardware limitations
Agreed, having choice is a great thing! Power to the people
For me, depends on the game.
For Casual / Arcade sense I will typically stay chase camera OR if a cockpit is provided to mix it up.
For something more simulated I will always pick cockpit.
Bumper cam user here. For me, it's not be able to see EVERYTHING in front of me that I can't stand, including the smallest bumps and turns and obstacles right as they come in. Cockpit, hood, chase, none of them work for me. Feels too... delayed, indirect? Like I'm blind for the last quarter of a second of everything I do.
That's interesting, regarding not being able to see everything. Genuine question, I mean this without judging or assumption, but do you have a driver's licence? I think that not being able to see everything is such a real part of actual driving and I wonder if the people who feel this way drive IRL or not.
@@DiariesOfABadDriver I do, but I also drive very rarely because I hate it, for similar reasons. Of course if you have a more recent car it's gonna have a zillion cameras for every angle, but that's another story. Whenever possible I just take my bike.
@@ablationer thanks for sharing, that makes sense!
i usually use different camera modes for different games like for example i use cockpit in dirt rally, hood camera in gran turismo and chase cam in wreckfest and beamng
I actually used to go 50/50 cockpit/chase cam when I first started playing Dirt Rally 1. I moved to pure chase cam out of nostalgia, and because I just find it more fun that way. I use pretty much pure cockpit in American Truck Simulator, though. (If you think the lack of visual feedback in chase cam is a problem in a rally car, you can imagine what it's like in a semi truck).
I think the idea of playing a sim racer like it's a simcade is appealing to me as someone who grew up with DiRT 2. In most other games, I go for max realism, but playing EA WRC the same way I would've played it as an 8 year old (3rd person, WASD) and still beating 100% AI is a lot of fun.
my personal favourite when playing with a monitor is cockpit without the wheel and hand
i've always played in cockpit, it gives me immersion and for some reason i find it better to play
I play sometimes with cockpit view sometimes with bonnet and sometimes with chase cam. I think it depends heavily on what you do and what you want. In Forza horizon it's not important how the car reacts as much as it is important to know if someone wants to divebomb and where that person is. In Singleplayer games or games i use as such like asseto corsa or beamNG i switch around depending on the car and situation. I prefer cockpit or bonnet mostly but i don't often like the steering wheel in view but that also depends if i have a real one i rarely want that wheel on screen as you also mentioned it's distracting. On a controller it's sometimes also distracting cause its unnatural fast or weird. In Forza horizon when you drift for example you have in the first person views a nice advantage beamNG added that features as well called a drift view or something. It gives you additional information on if the car starts to slide and shows the direction the car is moving so when you move sideways you look out of the window (also nice in racing cause you notice when you car starts to drift).
And above all who the heck cares about realism i want the best view to drive fast which gives me the most feedback for the given situation.
Idk if I havent said that before, but - im sitting in aluminum profile rig, so the first person camera is for me like doubling the view, so to speak. If I had the screen literally on my face (like VR does) then first person makes sense to me, otherwise its confusing. Thats why - dash cam, even if it obstructs the view. My screen sits where the dash should be (or a little bit towards the front of the car). "Immersion" it gives is secondary, the main goal is competitive advantage and I found out im fastest in hood/dash cams, but hood makes me not see opponents and in rallying its even harder to know where the back of the car is.
Also - I'd LOVE to use chase cam, thats my favorite cam in terms of fun, but... driving like this just doesnt feel right, even when im doing it 4fun and not to win.
If ingame cockpit cam is set to ingame driver perspective, then real YOU feels like driving from the car's backseat, because it adds another distance you monitor. Thats why hood cam feels more natural.
I personally have always preferred bumper cameras that have the camera just about as low and forward as can be it gives me a nuts sense of speed and thats really the only thing I care about when it comes to racing games and you know pretty much exactly the width of the car to not hit stuff
Cockpit cam without the wheel visible is my choice, but only because i use a wheel. If i was using a controller it would be chase cam
i normally use the cockpit view when just driving casually and having fun but when it comes to serious driving i prefer the hoodcam since i find it easier to determine how far i am from curves etc, it also just feels easier to manage slip angle in the hoodcam view
Heres what i think:
Chase cam is good for games like forza horizon where u can use ingame objects to get an advantage so its better to use chase cam to see more stuff and if your playing other arcade games like nfs, For competitive sim racing bonnet cam or bumper cam is ideal as theres fewer distractions, but if you need to see the dash f.ex cockpit is ofc better but only if you can lock the steering wheel for less distractions(like in iracing most pros play in cockpit but lock their steering wheel). Cockpit is probably the best for drifting and if your your not trying to be as competitive while racing(dash cam works just as fine if you prefer it).
Hello my man, loved your videos and agree with your points, but I want to question.
What and where do you take your OST, like I know its chillhop/lofi, but non are that much long to relax like in your vids, so could I have this info or where do you take it from, if possible?
Thanks! All of the music I use has been sourced from freestockmusic.com and links are always included in the description.
@@DiariesOfABadDriver
Thank you, now I gonna drive with a pretty good ost in the background. Thks
I think i gave up on cockipit because i couldnt make it look right and either couldnt see shit or had binocular vision, so just drove bonnet or roof cam and the skill translated well fronm roof to cockpit when i finally got my settings right
I'm a true fov dashboard guy. I just get immersed much more and after some time the monitor borders just fade away. My fov is 27°. After multiple endurance races I can safely say that true fov is the most immersive for me.
The majority of the time I will use chase cam, and that's for a number reasons. I grew up playing the older Gran Turismos on the first two PlayStations which didn't have a cockpit view and that is what I'm used to. I also used to play the TOCA Touring Car and Colin McRae Rally games on the original PlayStation which all have a cockpit view, but I didn't like them as they were badly modelled. Also as a content creator I prefer to use the chase cam as it does help my point came across better due to the wider FOV, especially when it comes to talking about graphics, physics and asset modelling. There are games where I do think the Cockpit cam is best. Mainly sim racers such as Project Cars, Assetto Corsa, and iRacing. I mainly prefer the cockpit view for those games as they were developed to be primarily played in the cockpit view. There are also games that have I terrible chase cams such as Ferrari Challenge on the PlayStation 3 and Road & Track Presents The Need For Speed. I think those games are best played with the cockpit view as well. I do disagree with the comments that you brought up from people defending the chase cam even though that is my preference. As it's a preference there is no right or wrong camera to use, and those of you who do treat the cockpit view almost like a cult then you need to grow the fuck up.
"As it's a preference there is no right or wrong camera to use, and those of you who do treat the cockpit view almost like a cult need to grow the fuck up." - Lol, totally agree :D
I will just add one thing in defense of the external camera. Controller. When I'm playing on the steering wheel, the cockpit (or the hood if there isn't one, or the bumper if for some reason provides better information than the hood (I'm looking at you Forza Motorsport 2) or slightly pulled back and moved to the driver's seat (NFS ProStreet and FlatOut 2/UC)) is my main choice.
BUT
90% of the time when playing Forza, recently The Crew or other arcade games that are more convenient to play only with an Xbox controller, my choice is the chase camera. The controller does not provide the response that the steering wheel will and the input is completely different.
The bonnet argument I think is a misunderstood. The screen could be compared to your windscreen. If you use the cockpit view it's like having two cockpits, your desk/setup and then the actual cockpit. Especially if the in game steering wheel is on, you're looking at two wheels which gives me the ick personally. I like dash + wheel off and I try to position the wheel and my monitor(s) so that the wheel actually blocks a tiny bit of the dash in my view which makes it a little bit more seamless. Some games I just pop on hood though because it feels a bit more natural.
i think that the best camera is dash, feels the most accurate to me, also gives more visibility than cockpit and hides the steering wheel and driver
I don't know if it's because i'm a sim-drifter first, but i tend to chose a "gopro style" roof camera (that follows where i'm going) most of the time, excluding when i'm racing (track and rally) then i'm in full on cockpit view, i happen to drift sometimes in cockpit sometimes too, but still need to train with it
Also, (back from your first vid on the matter) to "see" when the car is overseering / understeering in a game i don't only use where the road is from my field of view, but the first thing i sense is the FFB in my wheel, if there's a "soft spot" in the FFB i either know the car is starting to grip up and oversteer, or break the traction and understeer (wheel user advantage only tho)
PS: nice drifts, you could get a bit smoother with the throttle and try using a bit of left foot braking to do smoother and cleaner drifts ^^
I use the "from the hood" version, because i already have a steering wheel in front of me! Dirt Rally does allow "behind the windshield from the console" view, which is the most authentic, because i can see the windshield in front of me, but my brain does not get confused by 2 different steering wheels in front of me (and thus 2 pairs of arms). And i don't really notice the interior while driving, i am more concentrated on not getting wrapped around a tree on the speed of 160 km/h on a dirt track in Finland
people argue bonnet cam is realistic cause they view the distance between their wheel and their screen to be great enough that the screen becomes the windshield. this would work for someone with a super expensive rig with triple screens and a full car body simulated in their peripherial vision, like that ricotrucker guy has. but not everyone has that, so if they want immersion, just use dash cam in assetto corsa or move the camera closer to the dashboard in cockpit cam and remove the steering wheel ingame.
i think the argument is based on "from where i am sitting, i already see my steering wheel. why should i see two steering wheels." or something. still dumb, but consider all possibilities right
I don’t honestly see how anyone drives or flies flight sims from outside the cockpit TBQH. It’s intuitive how it works. How anyone does it from outside the cockpit is beyond me.
cockpit camera is awesome in games like assetto corsa because you can adjust it. If you arent comfortable with the positioning, you can change that. also, X4ab made NECKFX which can make the immersion level skyrocket, at the cost of speed. (static camera is going to be better than a constantly moving camera.)
I use cockpit on everything but open wheel cars in ac. mainly the older ones like the lotus 49 because I can see the suspension moves and how the weight and the car are reacting. For me it simulates the g-force quite nicely
Edit: I use tv cam for open wheel
personally I choose the hood because for immersion I consider the space between myself and my screen the cockpit (since I already have a wheel in front of me IRL, that's my wheel and that's my cockpit), and my screen is basically my windshield. It displays what I should see outside the cockpit, not the cockpit itself
Plus one thing I found out while using the screen as a windshield is it's speed sense is way better, at least for me. I feel like I'm going much faster than from within cockpit
I never really liked the idea of the cockpit camera until I actually learned to drive. After learning to drive and driving on a regular basis, it now feels wrong not to use the cockpit camera. Before this I always used chase camera in games but after driving real cars it no longer seems realistic or intuitive.
Indeed! I think that being comfortable with driving a real car makes cockpit and the other first person cams make far more sense.
I play both VR and normal screen (ultrawide) depending on mood. I set my fov to be "mathematically correct" and when I play in VR it's basically exactly the same view as the monitor but with widened peripheral vision. But that means when I'm driving on normal screens, I only see like the top half of the dash which kind of sucks aesthetically. I've kept the "correct" fov for now to keep a consistent view of the track so the experience between vr and monitor transfers with little to no adaptation required, but I'm starting to reconsider if it's worth it.
Anyway, this video has prompted me to try a wider cockpit fov regardless of what the fov police say, so thanks for that.
I personally like the dash camera more (while doing anything that isnt door-to-door track racing such as ACC) as I just focus on driving, the road, and timings much better.
In VR there is no other way than driver/cockpit cam.
That being said I personally cannot drive in 3rd person. Every time I use any 3rd person camera I miss my timings and eat wall for dinner. idk how you guys manage do it on wheel.
I think that most chase cam drivers use gamepad, kb or mouse, not wheel.
Ayy my comment was featured :) I'm still a tiny screen girl but i use the cockpit cam more often now
How somebody can play a racing game without a VR is mind-boggling to those of us that have tried it and will never go back to flat screen.
It'll be interesting to see how I feel once I try it, but there's tons of people who try it and still race on flat screens, so I honestly doubt I'll be totally converted. There's always shortcomings and issues with these sorts of things.
Hey thats me. I didnt expect mine of all the comments to get the most attention
I know you mentioned that you have no experience with VR, but I wanted to give my 2 cents:
I don’t really like using cockpit view unless it’s a very wide open cockpit (such as F1) or when using a VR headset. I have a very hard time being able to track everything visually when I’m looking at something that is essentially a smaller view of what I actually experience while driving IRL on top of already having a wheel in front of me. I generally prefer the hood cam if I’m feeling lazy about setting up my Oculus.
I only ever used a chase cam when using a controller for more arcade games, or when drifting outside of VR. Very few games will make your camera turn to the direction of travel when drifting in cockpit view and so I feel as though using the chase cam helps to get an idea of where my car is in the virtual space.
EDIT: Aaaaamd I just realized you mentioned pretty much all of these while watching through the entire video. 😂
Watched your videos, tried the cockpit (usually on chase cam). Mixed results!
In a road car circuit race (my usual jam) it was claustrophobic and I kept hitting other cars around me. I felt like it could be ok if I had triple monitors, VR, FOV adjustment, radar or crew chief, but since I'm playing GT5 on PS3 and have none of those, it ain't happening. Then I tried the beginner kart race and visibility was better, and I actually had fun. However I think with faster opponents I'd still have issues not seeing behind/beside me, the beginner race only worked because I was faster than everyone and only had to look in front of me.
I'll try cockpit again when I'm doing licenses, time trials etc as it was nice to be inside the vehicle. But I think any time there are other cars around me it's gonna suck. Maybe it'd be better in a single seat race car with good mirrors. In the MX-5 I was driving, there was no way to see both side mirrors.
"Trickle down economics"💀
Full sim settings, no assists, wheel, 3 pedals, h pattern manual with clutch and vr in the cockpit view
I actually tried the cockpit in my Dirt Rally 2.0 after ur first video, and I was a LOT faster after get confortable with the cam
That's awesome! Glad to hear it worked for you :)
I'd recommend you getting into VR. You can pick up a Quest for like 200$ right now. The way you feel about first person is amplified x100 in VR.
I haven't really done any research on headsets because I refuse to buy one blind without trying it out first (particularly for brand new), but the quest line is definitely out of the equation. There's no scenario that I'm giving Meta or Zucc any of my money.
i am the type who uses cockpit cam to see those mirrors or the digital dash in every sims in existence,i use that in all F1 games(ranked mode),ACC,GT7(sports mode) 🗣️
nice argumentation, convince me to start using cockpit cam as a hood cam player or at least try it, especially because my camera is full of Apps and overlays that make it seem like an arcade. ty ❤
You're very welcome!
The camera setting i must have now in the cockpit is on BeamNGdrive, better than 'look to apex' it's inertia strength with a look-ahead angle because you can feel visually the amount of force the driver has to deal with, very useful for me when drifting, and in grip while cornering it tends to be the opposite of 'look to apex' but i think it's like a whole new way to understand the car"s behavior (with the loads on the suspensions and tires) and to be in immersion.