If there was ever a person to talk to about Fallout in general, it's me and/or Eden lmao. Eden more for NV and F3 since I haven't finished the games, me for F4 and the series lore in general because I'm obsessed with it all lol
I think thats what makes this stuff so interesting. Somebody spent some ungodly amount of time planning and building all this, just for 99.9% of players to walk past without ever thinking about it.
Chances are, that environment artist doesn't know this video exists... :( But we could summon the power of the internet people to find that specific environment artist and send the video to them! We could... But I'm too tired tonight
I love the idea of a forest ranger mapping the local waterflow and getting interrupted by a dragon to which they sigh and slay it with the same enthuasithsm of moving a stubborn duck out of the way of their car
It really is though. I'm a field ecologist and this ramble through Skyrim really reminded me of some of my field trips, if we replace the dragon with a giant spider/snake/feral pig and rather than killing it, I have to wait for it to move along.
If Skyrim was real life the government would make dragons a protected species and killing them a felony so you'd just have to stand around and grumble until it left of its own accord
@@ErbBetaPatched Nah, farmers would slaughter most of the dragons, the gov would pay you to slaughter some more, and then theres like 10 dragons left and ecosystems relying on them are collapsing so dragons need to be protected and reintroduced.
Chuckled heartily at the idea of the dragonborn taking an intense interest in river cartography and having to look up from water saying "Ugh. God dammit" to kill a whole dragon before staring back down and pondering the weird videogame river split.
I did a project in college once analyzing the northern coastline of Skyrim as to whether or not it was geologically plausible and found that overall it really is so long as there’s a strong current in the sea of ghosts. It’s details like this that just make me happy in open world game design.
And we have reason to believe it does. We know from loading screen trivia that Solitude being built on a natural arch gives it proctection from the sea of ghosts' strong winds, which would make it quite likely for the currents of the sea to also be strong.
Hi, hydrology engineer. So the Ivarstead split is not as unbelievable as you might think. Plenty of water sources are springs coming. from ground water sources. And the fact that it suddenly becomes a large river from a small creek could be due to runoff being a main source for the larger river. Although it does look funky there are stranger natural water features in real life. Thanks for the video it was fun
I was looking for this comment, I've been to polish mountains and there is plenty of places where the water just appears from ground, not necessarily a wall
Very recently I was at a pond, nothing fed into the pond, while it continuously fed into a ditch at about the same rate as an midway-open tap. Very neat, there's a natural spring in there cranking out a lot water around the clock
Anyway Whiterun is on top of an artesian well? Could bring water to the surface without pumping, naturally flowing so they put a city in that spot since it had a water source.
@@FuzzyPanda962it ain't but it's one of the oldest still standing and lived in. Jorrvaskr came to be after the Nedes had settled, founded saarthal and got " night of tears"d by the snow elves. Fled back to back to Atmora and returned with 500 big angry boys and girls to genocide them in return. Settled at where jorrvaskr is now because the skyforge was already there and the snow elves seemed to avoid it like the plague because of whatever old magic lives there so it was a suitable frontier home base for the companions
I think back to 2011 when the idea of fighting a dragon was a cool selling point for the game. What fun stories would be made by adventuring and dealing with a random dragon. Like one that appeared as I transformed into a werewolf, or another that fled to the other side of a mountain pass, or another that I didn’t see until after my entire screen was covered in a sudden blast of fire. Such fun and emergent stories from the game! Now it’s 2024. They are a nuisance to the important work of figuring out where the water came from.
I'm a forester and have spent many years out in the woods. And I'm happy to report that once in my life I was standing at a creek that did exactly what your Skyrim creek did. The water at my left foot flowed left and the water at my right foot flowed right. It was the strangest thing but it does happen on earth in the real world. As for the river that seems to pop into existence from the bank, that happens quite a bit. subsurface or spring water hits loser material or change of pressure and surfaces. It's essentially an underground river that reaches the surface and "pops" into existence. These sites are the headwaters of many a river system.
That's actually really cool. I wonder if they chose the location based on a gut feeling or if they actually did research to see if that's feasibly be a good source, geographically, for it.
I studied Hydrology in University, and might have an answer for why that little river at 8:30 turns into a massive one. Every stream/river is either "gaining", "losing", or "at equilibrium" (with other subcategories of course). It's possible that the ground underneath quickly becomes more permeable, allowing groundwater to seep into the river (given a high water table). This increases the amount of water in the river. Skyrim has lots of fractured, rocky terrain which often leads to the amount of groundwater seepage being varying heavily from place to place.
I also wondered if the lake could be draining via an undercurrent towards Ivarstead, but because there are some big rocks in the frothy part, some of the water is being pushed back upstream on the surface, towards the lake. I don't think I've seen this in real life, but popped into my head.
I can’t for sure say I’ve forded every stream and swamp and creek in this game, but can I claim to have gone over every single waterfall , but that’s almost all I do because I’m terrible at quests. If you haven’t already , I highly recommended going over waterfalls in ethereal form.
I too enjoy long hikes along the riverside for the simple joy of exploration... in video games, because in the real world gas is expensive and rivers have mosquitos.
this video makes me feel so valid for having once spent several hours drawing up a detailed map of routes and sources for a fictional river network in my own fictional world
It really is something else to spend dozens of hours for worldbuilding things like that. Reminds me of how all the time I've spent playing colony sims makes me consider a LOT of what has to fit into a given city, town, or self-sufficent fort in my DnD campaign.
This is actually quite important since civilization is often built near running bodies of water and can shape the entire design for settlements and cities.
I love exploring in video games: tugging at the seams until the facade of simulation falls away and the structure of the underlying game appears is just so much fun. I hope someday to make a game that drives people to analyze it in the same way.
The channels for me would of made this into a 1 hour video and included a video call with an expert about rivers. This was a great idea with very lackluster content.
"The game just admits that it can't justify everything and sometimes it just has to make a big river and that's just the way it goes" is the most real, adult thing I've ever heard in my life.
@@rr-zb3rh"making up bullshit" is not "being a game" There are _plenty_ that can believably justify such basic features. Even some older TES did a good job.
Okay, but isn't it just a love letter to a video game to just explore for the sake of exploring? To look at every little detail possible for whatever reason possible? Thank you for loving video games, Austin
_Especially_ when that game is Skyrim - the archetypal example of a game where exploring for the sake of exploring is not only the best way to play the game but arguably the whole point.
7:49 As an avid paddle boarder, I can tell you that this is also found in nature. I have been paddling upstream and then came across a second current pushing in the opposite direction. A spring boil is responsible.
@@At0mixit can be so hard to stop before getting into that mindset and acknowledge whether or not the designers put thought into why some detail is the way it is. I certainly didn't know about spring boils.
@@ChimaraJ yes. I was actually dissapointed at that part of the video. Nature actually has real double path rivers.If it's made by laziness its still okay but these rivers exist. Current can come under the river too.
I don't know anything about hydrology but I was so ready to watch another 20 minutes of you just following rivers and water sources throughout the rest of Skyrim. Couldn't tell you why I enjoyed this so much, but I did
The reason I find this kinda stuff interesting is because someone made it. Skyrim was a mix of generated and handmade landscapes. And it's a pretty safe assumption that someone on the land sculpting team was in charge of making rivers make sense. So it's interesting to see how far someone's design will take that. How far until they think nobody will pay attention so they stop worrying about it. They didn't model holes in the mountains so clearly they didn't think people would examine them too closely, and only see them from a distance. Those areas in video games always intrigue me. The very edge of the designers' imagination.
I followed the salmons to their breeding grounds. One day i saw them jumping up the waterfall which they only do irl when they return to where they came from. So i decided to follow them.
I'd say it's less the "edge of the designer's imaginations" and more the "edge of detail justifying costs." It's not like the designers ran out of brain juice at the last second and couldn't comprehend the idea of creating a hole in the mountain for the water to flow out of. They probably brought it up, in fact, and just got told no.
@@hdns4 also this game is relatively old, you didn't want to spam extra geometry without reason. A few holes in the mountains alone are not an issue whatsoever, but in reality almost everything has a few simplifications like that, which adds up a ton when you are rendering this much environment.
I think your attitude is wrong. It's a fantasy game where anything can be hand crafted. Your assumption is that 'making sense' was the goal when it probably wasn't at all.
@@drifter402 considering how far he had to travel before the logic of the river broke, I'd say it's very reasonable to assume they put effort into making the rivers make sense. And why wouldn't you? Even in a fantasy world you don't want to ignore realism completely and physics. That would break immersion.
I feel the same way with rivers/creeks in real life. Like, I've always had thin innate desire to follow them either all the way up or all the way down. It might just be a combination of the love of nature, and a primal urge to explore. I'm really not sure though. I'm glad someone else has this feeling.
There's a great series of videos by Ed Pratt where he follows a river he used to play on as a kid from source to sea. I think it might be a universal part of the human experience to want to know where things begin and end.
It's mentioned as a "bug" in the UESP, but based on the drawing of the classic foldout map of Skyrim, the river in the Rift seems like it was supposed to flow from the lake next to Riften to the lake by Ivarstead, then down the big waterfalls. It looks like the environmental devs accidentally made it flow the wrong way, which is why it has that weird nonsense spawning point next to Ivarstead. I wonder if any dedicated hydrologist modder created a mod just to fix that...
@@orangesilver8 I was talking about the Treva River on the paper map flowing the wrong way. The water next to Ivarstead is just supposed to be part of Lake Geir but they turned it into a weird river fork because they wanted a flowing waterway through the lumbermill.
I think my favorite thing about videos like this is that everything you see was put there by a person. Someone made that little waterfall that comes out of a sheer rock wall. There's something really beautiful about a space that is entirely deliberate in that way
It's like how religious people believe that everything was handcrafted but like, actually. Like I could find the dude who put that rock there on Twitter and tell him good job
This is why I love making games. Right now I'm working on the enviroments for Zukara and Pteranodon 2: Primal Island and it's my own little world. Even if the games don't come out great I take a little pride knowing I put everything down by hand for better or for worse
Sad to see all this handcraft being replaced by AI. And let's not kid ourselves: this _will_ happen. Same way CGI took over even the domains where practical effects worked better: they were just cheaper. Ten years from now, we'll be watching video essays explaining how come the new game worlds feel so artificial, same way you can always tell that Midjourney look from real art, even if you can't quite put your finger on it.
In a landscape of video game streamers and “critics” hyperfixated on photo realism, graphical fidelity, p and fps and all that, what a blessing to watch this lovely man find joy in the imperfections of the medium and build a whole channel and following around this. One of the few truly unique video game youtubers imo
I really hate the people obsessed with FPS. Everything 30+ is absolutely ok and there's no excuse for saying otherwise. I always lose respect to a gamer who complains about it.
The water from Whiterun actually isn't sewage funny enough! You'd think that from looking at it but in one of the books you can find in game, I believe it was in "King Olaf One-Eye's Verse" that you get for a Bard's College quest. But it says that part of the reason why the Companions originally set up shop where they did (in addition to it being where the Skyforge was built) was because of a natural spring residing at the top of the little mountain that provided a good place to recover after fights. It was said to posses healing properties which is why the Eldergleam cut was later planted where the magical spring flowed to as normal water wasn't able to support earlier attempts to plant cuts from the Eldergleam. That's also why the temple with the healers was constructed right next to the Eldergleam and the magical steam, so they could harness the alleged healing properties of the stream. Eventually King Olaf One-Eye created a private bathing area in the lower parts of Dragonsreach for himself, his family, his court, and his most esteemed guests, but he also made sure when it was constructed that the spring was still able to flow to the rest of the city to show respect to the Companions and obviously not harbor any bad blood between them and whatever Jarl would reside there, since the Companions are a very important historic part of Whiterun and it would be a great shame to disrespect them. The skeleton that's under the bridge at Dragonsreach is actually much older than you would expect but its decomposition has allegedly been halted by the restorative properties of the spring! So yeah, the water that you marked as sewage is actually a natural spring alleged to have mystical healing properties and not entirely sewage! (though there is probably some sewage) Sadly they didn't actually create the spring bath house as a place you could go in Skryim, I wish you could that would be really cool to see. At least I could imagine that being the case in an Elder Scrolls game, I actually made all of that up, but it was pretty believable eh? Bethesda feel free to hire me for your writing team
Yep. It's a spring that feeds into this video's main river, which is called White River, hence the settlement built atop the spring is called "Whiterun."
I love that you're keeping your hair in place with all that metal for a special occasion, and I love that that occasion is not this video viewed by 1.5 million people.
skyrim's mountains are filled with caves, tombs, temples and entire cities carved into the rock and they have underground rivers and lakes that could act as a source of water for the tributaries.
This 100%, you can see some of the source of the Riverwood tributary inside the boss chamber of Bleak Falls Barrow. Thus the name, which I think most people would sort of skim over lmao. There's a really cool video on YT about the realism of Skyrim's ore generation as well, Bethesda are nothing if not good world builders
Blackreach water flows way down to Even Blacker Reach so none of the world's water comes from it. The question is does Blackreach's water come from the world? I think I'm going to try to find out.
@@spejic1oh and by the way if you could survey the mountains to determine where the tectonic plates are in Skyrim and survey the agriculture to see if Skyrim could become self sufficient that could be great the government needs your help 😂
Looks to me like the Blackreach source is a series of waterfalls that come from under the mountains west of the Wayward Pass. There's no lake or river here, but there is lots of snow so it makes sense that melt from this comes down to Blackreach.
Stream and river ecologist here! You inspired me to determine the stream order of the Skyrim rivers now. I spend a lot of time doing watershed delineation on mapping software and now I want to figure out Skyrim's watersheds lol
When Tears of the Kingdom came out I crafted a basic raft and sailed it from the base of the Lanayru Great Spring to Lake Hylia. One of the most immersive game experiences I've ever had and really allowed me to appreciate the work the designers put into the map.
I had a dream where you were livestresming, and everyone in chat was having fun talking about aquafers and their roles in videogames as well as real life. There were no arguments, no conflicts, just people enjoying talking about underground water.
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys. In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
I literally did this for a job once! I was paid to hike up a creek and all of its tributaries, classify them, and find erosion points! I can talk more about this if anyone has any questions. Our survey was more focused on the pollution and erosion question as well as updating a ~20 year old report.
Do you have to work as a sort of park ranger or be a general employee for a local state/govermment, or is it some university funded research to do this line of work?
Watching this video made we want to go on an adventure like that exploring a river near where I live but then I looked at a map and realised it's not really a river more of a river-shaped bay
Same. Making that first character, getting to riverwood, killing a chicken and getting murdered for it. Having to start a new character because the 1st one never respawned. It was a life altering moment.
The banality is the beauty. Like walking through a random urban area without any "Sightseeing spot", just admiring the little gardens and comfortable houses from the outside.
Years ago when Google+ was a thing I went on a bunch of photowalks with other photographers from around the state and that was exactly what we did. We walked down the little alleyways looking at the graffiti and stickers on the wall. We walked into the tiny little carparks hidden on back street to photograph an emergency fire escape staircase. I really miss those walks because I had an amazing time just looking at nothing. Sure we were just minutes away from a massive stadium or right near a statue of some big famous person, but there was coolness in just poking around the little two-person-wide alleys that went between two houses as a shortcut to another road, or going on a pedestrian overpass to peer into someone's backyard or something.
@@SolidIncMedia That is the way. When I was in Rome, you couldn't really "enjoy" the usual sightseeing destinations because it was just to full of people - both tourists and street merchants. Find your own highlights and beauty among the concrete and steel.
@@JachymorDotairst time we went to New York we did the tourist thing. Went to Madam Tussauds, to Time Square, to the Empire State and so on. I loved it, but next time I want to see the lesser travelled areas. There's room for both, but sometimes it takes two trips
@@SolidIncMedia Have you *really* experienced a place until you've worriedly looked over you shoulder after wandering into a rough part of town and had to reassure yourself that you're fine and nothing seems out of the ordinary?
"I'm still dealing with object permanence on an emotional level" Same. I find it really calming to go on Maps, find a new place, and then drive there to see that it actually exists. Anybody else?
That satisfaction of exploring places that you've always seen from a distance or passed by before is so addicting lol. Sometimes I go online just to see pics inside buildings for no reason other than curiosity
In Germany we actually do have a spot where a river just pops into existence and comes up from the ground like in 8:00 The “Aachtopf”. Looks really cool. The Danube (europes second longest river) looses water to a cave system and at the Aachtopf it reappears from the ground.
That can also happen for lakes, where the source of the water is just under the lake, or it's the result of seasonal melting of snow that don't feed into it all year round
A lack of emotional object permanence is extremely common in things like ADHD, BPD and autism. "I can't remember how I felt 5 minutes ago so that emotion no longer exists to me" kinda thing
@@jaebebifi it’s true it’s real. Although the wording makes me think he’s more figuring out how to respond emotionally to the idea that something is bigger than he can see. But still. Very real
@@MerkhVision whoosh, he's talking about emotional object permenanance... as in friends leaving you not literal object permance that's developed at an early age. It's dry humor.
I appreciate that when you noticed the river flowing in opposite directions you didn't immediately deride or insult the developers for giving up and breaking the game world, you appreciated that many would not notice the opposite flows, and that the existing work put into the logic of the lakes was already impressive. Really enjoyed that positive spin. Great video.
If i went on a little coffee date with someone and they talked about the layout of the rivers of skyrim and how they make them feel emotionally for 13 minutes straight, there'd be a second date.
Hi I don't usually comment but I've gone through a lot of near death stuff for the past year and your videos are the only thing I've found I can fall asleep to. You often say "let me know if you like this so I can make what you like" and here I am saying please make more because you really really help my anxiety. I'm a big fan of the skyrim things because it's super pretty, I also really love the sky box series for the same reason. I like escapism but I was never good at video games, I'm glad I get to experience them through you. Thank you
Nice! Love this. Former hydrogeologist here. Technically, I guess all the issues with say, the big lake at 8:50 all of a sudden getting huge can somewhat realistically be explained by the lake being fed groundwater (so it is a "gaining" lake). The water literally comes into the lake through the ground below it. Same goes for all of the rivers that don't seem to have a legitimate visible source. Gaining streams (and losing streams) are a natural hydrogeologic phenomenon, all a part of our real world.
Thanks for your message, I was looking for someone that had already explained the phenomenom, and you did ! 😉 Indeed, depending on the geology of the area, it is possible to find lakes with several outlets (multifurcation lakes). Subsurface flows can also be tricky since you don't see any tributary and the water seems to emerge from nowhere (but it actually percolates through sediment / cracks).
I am imagining this guy's Dragonborn as being a reluctant hero who has the power to slay everything as a Viking badass tends to... but to him, they are simply annoying obstacles preventing his peaceful research and cartography.
Man, don't you love it when many different people are into the same thing and are thus able to explain different things about how it works to each other? My favourite kind of human interaction
When I first played Skyrim, I immediately got separated from the guy that guides you to Riverwood. And so, I thought to myself “to find a town, I should just follow water!” and proceeded to look for a river. Stumbled into a bandit camp, made it out alive, found the river and followed it… and arrived in Riverwood. I had been pleasantly surprised that the idea worked.
You are absolutely right, but also I have to say, if you could NOT find a town called 'Riverwood' by following a river, then the game devs were being exceptionally lazy...
I'm always astounded that real life waterfalls literally feel infinite, as if there's an unending amount of water in the earth for it to be spewing that much ALL THE TIME!
The environmental artists for this game don't get enough credit. If you check out the types of potions you can make with just the reagents you find in a zone, those alone can tell you a lot about the zone itself. There's a lot of Persuasion and Thievery related stuff near Riften, Antimagic near Whiterun tying in with the hall being used to bind dragons, all the battles and mass graves in Falkreath have the area saturated with deadly ingredients. It's also neat when you start to figure out where specific ingredients can be located like Fly Amanita spawns where a guard would take a piss, White Cap where ppl drop a deuce, Milkthistle grows outside a lot of houses and barns and is often used to settle stomachs irl...shit like that. I was curious how water even has a chance to form rivers with something as big as Blackreach beneath all the mountains. You'd figure structures like that would severely limit the space for aquifers.
The trivial details Bethesda usually puts in are what make the bugs tolerable. I love searching a non menu'd crate to find a bandit's cache hidden away.
@@Exel3nce some crates you walk up to say "press "x" to open." Some are smashed open or just don't have a lid, so you loot them by putting your camera in them. Theres a LOT of hidden loot in certain places, gems in urns, weapons and potions in open chests, etc.
i live in the mountains, theres a funny little canyon a few miles from my house. if you go up it long enough you find a small stream slowly appearing as you go up the narrow canyon. its then gets bigger as you go uphill, you notice it actually flows more as you go up. then it slows down and dissapears. the water seems to just seep out of the mountains and then back in about half a mile later
3:40 - While the water most likely mixes with the city's waste, there's a high probability a natural water source is underneath the palace. From what I remember, the hill Whiterun is built on is a magical place so it wouldn't be out of place. 7:35 - Maybe the source is under the surface of the water coming out of the wall? It probably still would flow in one direction after creating a riverbed but I'm not sure.
@@MerkhVision Honestly, couldn't tell you. I just remember watching some lore videos on the topic and there was something about it but I don't really remember anything. I vaguely remember a possibility of it being a meteor and gods' influence. I think if you dig for info about the forge there and the shrine underneath it you should find something.
@@MerkhVisionBefore the nords came from Atmora and the Companions of Ysgramor estabilished the meadhall of Jorrvaskr around which Whiterun would get built the giant bird of the Skyforge or even the forge itself was already there but Falmer (before getting shroomed by Dwemer) avoided the site. It might have been a place of worship estabilished by Nedes (ancestors to Bretons, Reachmen and Imperials and other human cultures that are now extinct), but their metallurgy was very primitive so a forge doesnt make sense, goddess Kyne/Kynareth is often represented as a Hawk but she has little to do with smithing, alternatively it might have something to do with the Elhnofey War. The hill and the forge are somehow connected to some divine powers, but there is no concrete answer.
The weird reverse direction by Iverstead, might also just be the surface currents. The river where i live used to be very important in timber transportation, and so they had issues with the surface currents sometimes going upriver enough to slow or reverse the lumber going down. The surface of a river might deceive you ;)
I used to live near Pittsburgh, PA. This is significant because Pittsburgh is built right where two rivers combine into a third river. These rivers are a major reason the city is a city, it allowed trade from all over the country even before we had a railway system. My family used to live near Wheeling, West Virginia. Right along the river that goes through the city. One day, my family was in Pittsburgh visiting me and saw some coal barges on the river and said, “those look like the ones that pass by my house!” They are literally the same ones. It’s the same river. Coal from West Virginia gets transported along the river to Pittsburgh, where it gets turned into Pittsburgh steel. To your point about the river powering saw mills in different parts of the world. Not only are rivers connecting towns and cities, sometimes rivers are the reason for the city.
Rivers have been important places all throughout history. With cities usually growing either at the start or end of a river (like where it flows out of a lake or into the ocean), where rivers meet (because that makes for a defensible position that already comes with a moat) or where a river is shallow enough to pass it (a ford)
And in the Medival world of Skyrim, rivers are one of the BIGGEST reasons for cities to be built. They provide easy access to drinking water (obv) but also help with industry, provides natural fortifications, makes it easier to travel and so much more Seriously, do any of the actual cities not have a river running through it?
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys. In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
"I'm honestly not totally sure what I find interesting about all of this." That was exactly my thought as I was watching this video. It is fascinating, but I don't know why. I want more.
"Now, the vertical striations of this cliff show it was pushed up from the landscape, but if we look on the other side of the continent... THE SAME STRIATIONS! This boulder had to have been moved from up-stream. And if it hadn't this whole lake wouldn't have been dammed and half these villages wouldn't have a coast." "Or a dragon moved it here."
This video makes me feel good. I remember absolutely loving to see the little streams and rivers in this game. Even to this day they still amaze me with how good they look (for a 2011 game especially).
Austin, dude--you have no idea how happy this video made me. I'm graduating with my bachelor's degree in Geology in a few days, and seeing you talk about the hydrology and geomorphology of freaking Skyrim was so, so cathartic after having to complete a huge trip to the Verde River headwaters and then writing a 23-page paper on its hydrology! I loved seeing you examine the stuff that checks out (the springs, the waterfalls, the lakes) and the stuff that's very obviously the developers going, "Aight, that's good enough." You've made me appreciate all the games I've played in a whole new light! Just thanks again, man, and hope you're doing great! Your videos are definitely some of the most unique and enjoyable ones on the entire platform.
Imagine being the guy living in a tiny settlement of about a dozen people, and some dude walks up rambling about rivers and sources and tributaries, and a dragon swoops down to attack. Instead of dying a fiery death, this crazy guy casually solos the demon lizard, muttering about the inconvenience, before scrutinizing the water again, making a few lines on a sketch pad, and wandering further up the mountain to search for "answers"
The "split" river at 7:30 was probably meant to flow in the direction of the waterfall in its entirety, and the source of it all be the lake, but they forgot to double check
What drives me just a little crazy about the split of the river at Ivarstead is that they could have sold the big lake as being the source of both rivers with multiple outflows (especially since it's perched in that hanging basin with a complex waterfall system spilling off at both ends). Of course I'd want to put a bunch of little tributaries and creeks flowing *into* the lake (and the same with the big lake above Riverwood) from further up in the mountains... God, it would be a dream to plot out terrain for a big game like this starting from hydrology. The bedrock and the hydrology should be the framework upon which everything else is built.
"I'm still working on object permanence, in a way... emotionally." That gave me a hearty laugh. Also loved you getting annoyed by a dragon on your river adventure. Good video 👍
there’s just something satisfying about knowing. the satisfaction of having a question, or not even a query just a daydreamy sorta “i wonder”, and then finding out.
I really respect that you didn't use no clip or anything you actually jumped up the rocks and stuff. It adds to the feel of you actually playing and exploring the game. Your videos help give me appreciation for the mundane aspects of games.
water is often thought of as either moving (ie rivers, streams) or stationary (lakes, ocean). however, water works on a spectrum from stationarymoving. When the smaller river originating in Ivarsted suddenly became wide without any additional streams feeding in, its because the geometry of that area needed water to pool up in excess before it could spill over and continue flowing. Essentially, there is a river flowing on top of a small lake or pond.
This doesn't make sense to me. Stationary and moving are binary states. The moment *any* movement is introduced, you, well, move from the stationary state to the moving state. There's no spectrum between the two. Movement itself is a spectrum, where you can move slowly, quickly or in between.
@@Askorti yes this is correct for individual mollecules. But a water mollecule doesnt know what a river or lake is, so when a river forms what is basically a mini lake that has a stream feeding water in, and a stream flowing out, our brains percieves it as a singular river suddenly getting way bigger.
@@Askortiwhat OP said- also if you want to define stillness strictly, the water in a lake isn’t completely still, there’s still wind and animals and inflows causing currents
It’s simply the admiration that someone sat down and took the time to detail and visually construct and properly insert something as pointless as realistic water sourcing. And it’s absolutely beautiful, no one expected someone to make a video about this, or likely even expected anyone to think about it twice or even once, yet someone did the research necessary, and took the time to do so, without ever expecting any recognition for such work. Or maybe I’m reading into it too much idk I’m high asf
This was strangely fascinating to watch. The river you were following is called the White River. It flows from Lake Ilinalta and into the Sea of Ghosts. The tributary that comes from Ivarstead is called Darkwater, and the one near Windhelm is River Yorgrim.
I knew that this river was called the White River, but your comment just made me realise that Whiterun could be so named because its waters *run* into the *White* river (or named after Whiterun Hold, where the White river runs!) Granted, Whiterun was a city in Arena and I don't think that the White River was a thing, but it's neat to see that kind of attention to world building.
@@stratospherica A run is actually a type of creek in somewhat antiquated English. You'll see things called "Brigham's Run" or somesuch in the Eastern US on occasion.
I remember playing an herbalist who was doing biology research on Skyrim, and I camped in the Whiterun region for ages cataloguing flora and fauna. It was really fun, I loved seeing the way the devs planted every tree and plant.
I grew up in northern New Hampshire, and one of my favorite things to do as a kid was follow the rivers near my house. People have told me I anthropomorphize things a bit too much, but for me, following a river really feels like following its life. You find its beginning, and as you follow it along you can see it grow, collecting water from the places it travels. It really feels like you're on an adventure together, and as you get to know the river, it gets to know you. You see it struggle through some areas and roar through others, it sees you slip and catches you, it guides you with its sound. You mentioned this a bit in the video, but most rivers will end in the ocean or a larger body of water, and reaching the end really feels like such a bittersweet goodbye. This river you've gotten to know so well slips into something larger, its individuality lost as it blends with so many others. But the best part it you can always walk its length again, find your favorite places and discover new ones. I think there's a lot of things in nature like this, climbing a mountain to its top, or a cave to its center. The world is such a beautiful place to discover, and videogames are such a fascinating lens to see the world refracted through. Sheesh sorry for the length, I really let this comment get away from me.
My dad's from rural Vermont in the summer he'd take an inner tube down the river with all his stepbrothers and cousins and stepcousins until he got to the next town where his father would know to meet him and they'd all get in towels in the truckbed and ride back home!
The nice thing is, while the river you can follow may 'end' at the lake or sea (or sometimes in a great basin or swamp!), it hasn't truly ended. Those that reach the sea join in a massive circulation, continuing as one for a time before separating and either evaporating or being pulled along by one of the many currents that, themselves, create a global, underwater 'river'-like system which can circulate almost endlessly in its current state. And the water that does evaporate, whether from a lake or basin or swamp or sea, is carried along by wind currents much as the water currents flow! And that water eventually falls again as precipitation, which collects and seeps and joins new river systems to make the journey all over again! It's little wonder why water and rivers are often used as metaphors for life or memory, beyond it's necessity for survival.
I think an additional possible reason why you found this interesting to do is because it's a small little game you've made out of it. You set a goal for the game, with various rules, and along the way to the finish line you found a multitude of interesting pieces of information, such as the underground rivers becoming spontaneous waterfalls. There is also the side factor of just being able to enjoy the scenery in a leisurely pace. You're not off to save (or doom) the world. You're just on a little hike, and sometimes that in itself is fun. Sometimes. Anyways, 'twas fun for me to watch, so thank you for the video! :D
that spot in ivarstead could've been a subterranean river emerging at a bit of a high point on the landform. the water appears to be rushing out in the direction that the river is emerging, and the distinct elevation change combined with the pressure of the flow is creating the higher rate of movement, but the rocks in the waterfall plus unseen depth in the channel could be causing a backflow, which combined with a slight elevation change in that direction (towards the lake) would create the pooling effect you see. when you look at the water, there is the obvious downstream flow toward the waterfall, but the other side appears to have ripples running perpendicular to the flow, which should indicate a relative stillness/very slight flow of the water in that direction. so at that point the water is very slightly running in that direction where it found a channel, or possibly is running in a shallow diversion channel created by the citizens of ivarstead to either prevent the backflow from flooding the village or to use in some form of irrigation. the lake it runs into is a perfect intake for that water. now i feel like i need to reinstall skyrim to look into this one a bit more haha.
it could have been a bug/oversight in the water flow system too, skyrim is full of those. if the water feeding the Ivarstad river came from lake Halcyon around Riften it would make total sense just like it comes from lake Ilinata to feed the whiteriver that pass through whiterun.
as an environmental scientist with a degree/concentration in surface water hydrology & a partner who loves Skyrim....thank you for making this. perfect blend of our interests. was fully fascinated as soon as the video started
This is my absolute favourite kind of video game content. Digging into the mechanics but in a fun way instead of a critical way. Exploring how the world is assembled and tracing oddities to their sources for no other reason than we can. Because some games are built in such a way that it can work.
I think the appeal is due to patterns. Human brains love finding patterns in things, and following a river to its source is like figuring out a complex pattern. And when you find something that doesn't fit the pattern, it's like a little victory over what was presented to you (Aha! I outsmarted the system and broke the code!). There might even be a small humour element - one of the most common bases of comedy is the breaking of an expected pattern.
5:44 “If you also think it’s interesting, tell me why” My guess is my ‘tism drives the interest in mundane and hyper-focused concepts such as these. Hope this helps.
If I was wagering an educated guess, I’d say it is likely linked to the overactivity of the Orbitofrontal Cortex in the brain. Which is what tends to drive OCD and pattern-obsessive behaviors. I’d guess in ASD, an obsessive love/interest in the mundane is a way this neurological impulse can express in certain personalities.
i think it might be a sensory thing too? at least for me i really enjoy mundane things and nature because they tend to be a lot less stimulating than the average environment
@@blockieran it is almost definitely that. Not that there is anything wrong with it, and has probably been the case with almost every area of interest since the beginning of civilization.
back when i was a kid, there was this PS2 game i loved to play called "everywhere road trip". it was a japanese game where you play as a car, driving around the world and talking to other cars (by ramming into them), winning races and buying upgrades, collecting knick-knacks for your garage and hunting for collectibles. inside your garage is a PC where you can check your email, and you get random emails from fans, strangers, chain-letters, and other miscellaneous spam. one of them really stood out to me when i was little: "The rivers end at the sea, but where do they begin? Do you want to follow the river with me? I think we can find some answers. Why not, ?" so i went and did it. and yeah, you _can_ follow the rivers to their source, somewhere up on White Mountain. they kinda just come out of caves in the wall, and there's little riverbanks you can drive up on. there's even one of the secret gemstones hidden underneath one of the waterfalls to reward you for exploring. i love things like that in games.
Saw this video in my recommendeds and I'm glad I clicked it. Someone exploring something super specific and simple and managing to make it funny and engaging is like my favourite TH-cam genre
There are several channels I follow not because I'm super into the subject matter myself, but because I really enjoy the person being so into the thing they're into. Watching their interest is engaging
you exactly said it for why this kind of thing is so interesting; it’s like giving a handshake 🤝 it’s just cool to see the human part of it, the creativity, and the steps it took
You made a comment about 5:30 that said you just want to know where the water comes from and while I watched the video for a giggle - I feel this sentiment in my core. I was in Alaska on a cruise and when we docked I looked up at the mountain range and saw a small river - my absolute first thought was "I want to go drink from the base of that river". So my wife went on to explore the town with her sister and I went up the mountain, 4 hours later drank from (what I could find of) the base and then got lost coming back down the mountain and thankfully found locals who were hiking and they invited me to their house and showed me the way back to town. It was pretty damn epic.
I think part of what makes this interesting is that, from a design perspective, I doubt the rivers were constructed starting at their origins. I would imagine the designers placed cities, and lakes, and promptly connected those on a world map. What would follow is the process of actually finding where that river going through a town comes from, where it'll end up, and how it all ties into the surrounding area. I can also imagine this is why eventually they run into a problem of realism, where there are deadlines to meet, milestones to reach, and it forces them to settle for a non-ideal solution to a design problem far removed from the enjoyment of gamers. Videos like this make it seem unfathomable to create a world like this, and it solidifies why game credit sequences have hundreds upon hundreds of names in them.
To be fair, it's not like Skyrim (the province) was just poofed into existence when the game came out. The release of Arena and Skyrim are 17 years apart. Arena's map of Tamriel is pretty close to what it currently is as well. So while a lot of those official maps don't really show waterways, there was plenty of time to figure those out, and I'm sure someone did well before Skyrim was ever even planned. There's plenty of people that obsess over maps, and I'm sure there were quite a few on the dev teams over those 17 years.
I love that a game like Skyrim almost 15 years old keeps getting explored and Videos made of it :D also I love the way of your presentation, no standart face cam footage, my boy is standing in front of his presentation with a mic in his hand. Bro you are so cool and made my day and for that youre a legend
Somewhere in the basement of Dragonsreach is a goblet with a summon water enchantement lying on it's side under some rubble. Farengar have been trying to find it forever.
I love how more people every day are taking the general Sam stand up move around with the mic approach in front of the green screen instead of just sitting in a chair.
Austin, thanks for this video. It inspired me to pop in Skyrim and travel on roads with my horse. I discovered about 2 dozen locations. I walked from Whiterun to Windhelm, then Whiterun to Riften. It was a delightful way to relax and I discovered new things about a game I've loved for over a decade.
The other day I was thinking how it’s so cool how rocks in the rivers break the current and the water has to go around it. Also the bit of calm water right after the rock is interesting and adds to the realism. Skyrim is cool
We learned many interesting things in this video, but the most shocking is that Austin allegedly enjoy videogames the normal way, he just likes to share the weird way to enjoy them for some reason
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys. In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
@@ravaxander4492gotta remember ulfric is also a thalmor asset albeit dormant which is revealed in the diplomatic immunity quest to find Esbern. They fed him info that he had given up information about the empire and essentially groomed him into being their divide and conquer weapon against Skyrim and the Empire
When I found that spot where the river comes from no where and splits in two directions, I assumed there was a massive cave system feeding it from high in the mountains. It's just fun to imagine that kind of thing. Also the wide creek makes sense if you assume the ripples are more from wind than water flow.
I started playing Fallout 3 for the first time. It’s good.
it's mid compared to 4 & NV
@@omara.3964I don’t believe in comparisons
@@any_austin He's wrong anyways, at least about 4.
If there was ever a person to talk to about Fallout in general, it's me and/or Eden lmao. Eden more for NV and F3 since I haven't finished the games, me for F4 and the series lore in general because I'm obsessed with it all lol
ಠ_ಠ
Somewhere out there, an environment artist is weeping for joy that someone took an interest in all the little streams & tributaries they designed.
And embarrassed by their spurt.
@@trueKorvusthe spurt is completely accurate to real life it’s a fast flowing water breaking on a rock of course there’s going to be white foam
I think thats what makes this stuff so interesting. Somebody spent some ungodly amount of time planning and building all this, just for 99.9% of players to walk past without ever thinking about it.
Chances are, that environment artist doesn't know this video exists... :(
But we could summon the power of the internet people to find that specific environment artist and send the video to them!
We could... But I'm too tired tonight
@@insomniac639Just like in our "real life"
I love the idea of a forest ranger mapping the local waterflow and getting interrupted by a dragon to which they sigh and slay it with the same enthuasithsm of moving a stubborn duck out of the way of their car
It really is though. I'm a field ecologist and this ramble through Skyrim really reminded me of some of my field trips, if we replace the dragon with a giant spider/snake/feral pig and rather than killing it, I have to wait for it to move along.
I laughed out loud at that part for the exact same reason.
If Skyrim was real life the government would make dragons a protected species and killing them a felony so you'd just have to stand around and grumble until it left of its own accord
@@ErbBetaPatched Nah, farmers would slaughter most of the dragons, the gov would pay you to slaughter some more, and then theres like 10 dragons left and ecosystems relying on them are collapsing so dragons need to be protected and reintroduced.
You little dragons are really trying my patience! ...oh but you're so cute
Chuckled heartily at the idea of the dragonborn taking an intense interest in river cartography and having to look up from water saying "Ugh. God dammit" to kill a whole dragon before staring back down and pondering the weird videogame river split.
@@EidakoJust kill the dragom and put him out of his misery
@@EidakoJesse what the fuck are you talking about
@@Eidako Alright Grandpa, back to bed with you
@@Eidako Source: I made it the fuck up
no, guys, he's right, it's true. i would know, i'm the top-heavy administration.
I did a project in college once analyzing the northern coastline of Skyrim as to whether or not it was geologically plausible and found that overall it really is so long as there’s a strong current in the sea of ghosts. It’s details like this that just make me happy in open world game design.
what grade did you get
And we have reason to believe it does. We know from loading screen trivia that Solitude being built on a natural arch gives it proctection from the sea of ghosts' strong winds, which would make it quite likely for the currents of the sea to also be strong.
Hi, hydrology engineer. So the Ivarstead split is not as unbelievable as you might think. Plenty of water sources are springs coming. from ground water sources. And the fact that it suddenly becomes a large river from a small creek could be due to runoff being a main source for the larger river. Although it does look funky there are stranger natural water features in real life. Thanks for the video it was fun
I was looking for this comment, I've been to polish mountains and there is plenty of places where the water just appears from ground, not necessarily a wall
"tranger natural water features in real life" such as? I'm super curious.
@@Freezorgiumme too! maybe they can give us some examples to google. i would like to learn more about weird water
Very recently I was at a pond, nothing fed into the pond, while it continuously fed into a ditch at about the same rate as an midway-open tap. Very neat, there's a natural spring in there cranking out a lot water around the clock
Especially with he mountain above it is so gigantic
As someone who models groundwater flow for a living, this is the best meal you've ever prepared.
fact check me I want to learn more about
Anyway Whiterun is on top of an artesian well? Could bring water to the surface without pumping, naturally flowing so they put a city in that spot since it had a water source.
@@ASTR0Dragon95probably why Jorrvaskr was built there. It’s the oldest human settlement/building in Skyrim iirc
@@FuzzyPanda962it ain't but it's one of the oldest still standing and lived in.
Jorrvaskr came to be after the Nedes had settled, founded saarthal and got " night of tears"d by the snow elves. Fled back to back to Atmora and returned with 500 big angry boys and girls to genocide them in return. Settled at where jorrvaskr is now because the skyforge was already there and the snow elves seemed to avoid it like the plague because of whatever old magic lives there so it was a suitable frontier home base for the companions
As a guy who doesn’t do that. It was a very good meal
A dragon attack being little more than a nuisance to our hydrologist dovakin had me stitches
*shoves dragon carcass away* look at this waterfall! *tosses aside ancient treasure* wow, this river sure is long!
It had ye stitches, did it lad?
IKR, silly dragons smh
I think back to 2011 when the idea of fighting a dragon was a cool selling point for the game. What fun stories would be made by adventuring and dealing with a random dragon. Like one that appeared as I transformed into a werewolf, or another that fled to the other side of a mountain pass, or another that I didn’t see until after my entire screen was covered in a sudden blast of fire. Such fun and emergent stories from the game!
Now it’s 2024. They are a nuisance to the important work of figuring out where the water came from.
I'm a forester and have spent many years out in the woods. And I'm happy to report that once in my life I was standing at a creek that did exactly what your Skyrim creek did. The water at my left foot flowed left and the water at my right foot flowed right. It was the strangest thing but it does happen on earth in the real world. As for the river that seems to pop into existence from the bank, that happens quite a bit. subsurface or spring water hits loser material or change of pressure and surfaces. It's essentially an underground river that reaches the surface and "pops" into existence. These sites are the headwaters of many a river system.
Simulation
This. Many times, the bulk of the river is actually flowing through the gravel and sand layers. Specially if the subsubstrate is rocky or impermeable
"let's find the source"- immediately heads downstream
that supposed to be a joke?
@@TRVPHAUS i don't know, is it? guess we'll never know
@@TRVPHAUS probably because going upstream would find the source, going down stream you would find where it ends.
@@TRVPHAUS
Upstream would be source point downstream would be ending point.
@@garrettthethief9118 Pretty sure he also said he wants to find where the river actually ends
Someone made a mod to create a source at Ivarstead and used this video as their inspiration. You're changing lives my dude
What is name of mod. I dont need sleep, i need answers
Commenting because I too need answers
I need the mod name, i require it
@@brendo1143 It's just "Ivarstead Source"
That's actually really cool. I wonder if they chose the location based on a gut feeling or if they actually did research to see if that's feasibly be a good source, geographically, for it.
I studied Hydrology in University, and might have an answer for why that little river at 8:30 turns into a massive one. Every stream/river is either "gaining", "losing", or "at equilibrium" (with other subcategories of course). It's possible that the ground underneath quickly becomes more permeable, allowing groundwater to seep into the river (given a high water table). This increases the amount of water in the river. Skyrim has lots of fractured, rocky terrain which often leads to the amount of groundwater seepage being varying heavily from place to place.
Awesome thank you
I also wondered if the lake could be draining via an undercurrent towards Ivarstead, but because there are some big rocks in the frothy part, some of the water is being pushed back upstream on the surface, towards the lake. I don't think I've seen this in real life, but popped into my head.
Did you start out as a Hydrology major or were you just going with the flow?
@@rrl9786 🤢
@@rrl9786 I started in general Geology, which was *gneiss* albeit a bit *shale*
I … I thought I was the only person who looked for things like this. It’s so nice to be reassured that there is company in madness
Remember you are not unique 😂 plenty of nerds out there
I can’t for sure say I’ve forded every stream and swamp and creek in this game, but can I claim to have gone over every single waterfall , but that’s almost all I do because I’m terrible at quests.
If you haven’t already , I highly recommended going over waterfalls in ethereal form.
I too enjoy long hikes along the riverside for the simple joy of exploration... in video games, because in the real world gas is expensive and rivers have mosquitos.
There are many in service to Sheogorath, and many in the Shivering Isles; the asylum.
this video makes me feel so valid for having once spent several hours drawing up a detailed map of routes and sources for a fictional river network in my own fictional world
People make fun of stuff like this but without people like you fiction wouldn’t be nearly as good as it is
@any_austin pure concentrated facts
It really is something else to spend dozens of hours for worldbuilding things like that. Reminds me of how all the time I've spent playing colony sims makes me consider a LOT of what has to fit into a given city, town, or self-sufficent fort in my DnD campaign.
This is actually quite important since civilization is often built near running bodies of water and can shape the entire design for settlements and cities.
I love exploring in video games: tugging at the seams until the facade of simulation falls away and the structure of the underlying game appears is just so much fun. I hope someday to make a game that drives people to analyze it in the same way.
you know we’re deprived of a new elder scrolls title when we’re trying to decipher where water comes from
no, this is just what this channel does and it's great.
Hate to say it but after Starfield I don't think the next TES game is going to be worth looking for water sources in a decade later.
Nah, this is just what us neurodivergent weirdos are into. This woulda been equally interesting to me in 2011 too
@@zefile yea i was just joking i love this type of content
I'll take what I can get
You know this channel is for you when you've genuinely asked yourself this question in Fantasy titles.
I have followed the rivers and tributaries before.
YEP
Only Austin is brave enough to feed the masses hungry for tedious video game minutiae.
then you play Far Cry 2, look at the map once, and immediately say "this is not how water works, Ubisoft"
The channels for me would of made this into a 1 hour video and included a video call with an expert about rivers.
This was a great idea with very lackluster content.
I work on an oil rig, so that comment at 4:43 was appreciated. This was VERY difficult to do Austin don't sell yourself short.
"The game just admits that it can't justify everything and sometimes it just has to make a big river and that's just the way it goes" is the most real, adult thing I've ever heard in my life.
gasp, a game helmed by todd howard just saying "it just works" instead of actually thinking?
@@steveng6721 my god a game being a game. horrible business
@@rr-zb3rh also try to ignore Todd Howard shenanigans why don't you?
@@rr-zb3rh"making up bullshit" is not "being a game"
There are _plenty_ that can believably justify such basic features. Even some older TES did a good job.
@@hundvd_7 man its a river
Okay, but isn't it just a love letter to a video game to just explore for the sake of exploring? To look at every little detail possible for whatever reason possible?
Thank you for loving video games, Austin
_Especially_ when that game is Skyrim - the archetypal example of a game where exploring for the sake of exploring is not only the best way to play the game but arguably the whole point.
@@KillahMate What happened to Bethesda man :(
@@Ahad-bj1cznothing, that's entirely what starfield is
@@Khronogi Starfield is a bunch of nothing, yeah.
@@Khronogi there is more love in the average mountain in skyrim than the planets in starfield.
7:49
As an avid paddle boarder, I can tell you that this is also found in nature. I have been paddling upstream and then came across a second current pushing in the opposite direction. A spring boil is responsible.
Orinoco river is an example
Interesting! Given Ivarstead’s proximity to the volcanic tundra of Eastmarch maybe that could be a viable in-universe explanation for it?
@@ChimaraJ Love the amount of effort we put into making dev laziness make sense
@@At0mixit can be so hard to stop before getting into that mindset and acknowledge whether or not the designers put thought into why some detail is the way it is. I certainly didn't know about spring boils.
@@ChimaraJ yes. I was actually dissapointed at that part of the video. Nature actually has real double path rivers.If it's made by laziness its still okay but these rivers exist. Current can come under the river too.
I don't know anything about hydrology but I was so ready to watch another 20 minutes of you just following rivers and water sources throughout the rest of Skyrim. Couldn't tell you why I enjoyed this so much, but I did
The reason I find this kinda stuff interesting is because someone made it. Skyrim was a mix of generated and handmade landscapes. And it's a pretty safe assumption that someone on the land sculpting team was in charge of making rivers make sense. So it's interesting to see how far someone's design will take that. How far until they think nobody will pay attention so they stop worrying about it. They didn't model holes in the mountains so clearly they didn't think people would examine them too closely, and only see them from a distance. Those areas in video games always intrigue me. The very edge of the designers' imagination.
I followed the salmons to their breeding grounds.
One day i saw them jumping up the waterfall which they only do irl when they return to where they came from.
So i decided to follow them.
I'd say it's less the "edge of the designer's imaginations" and more the "edge of detail justifying costs." It's not like the designers ran out of brain juice at the last second and couldn't comprehend the idea of creating a hole in the mountain for the water to flow out of. They probably brought it up, in fact, and just got told no.
@@hdns4 also this game is relatively old, you didn't want to spam extra geometry without reason. A few holes in the mountains alone are not an issue whatsoever, but in reality almost everything has a few simplifications like that, which adds up a ton when you are rendering this much environment.
I think your attitude is wrong. It's a fantasy game where anything can be hand crafted. Your assumption is that 'making sense' was the goal when it probably wasn't at all.
@@drifter402 considering how far he had to travel before the logic of the river broke, I'd say it's very reasonable to assume they put effort into making the rivers make sense. And why wouldn't you? Even in a fantasy world you don't want to ignore realism completely and physics. That would break immersion.
I feel the same way with rivers/creeks in real life. Like, I've always had thin innate desire to follow them either all the way up or all the way down. It might just be a combination of the love of nature, and a primal urge to explore. I'm really not sure though. I'm glad someone else has this feeling.
10000000%
There's a great series of videos by Ed Pratt where he follows a river he used to play on as a kid from source to sea. I think it might be a universal part of the human experience to want to know where things begin and end.
@@dasutin Or the one where a guy found the source of the Thames.
I like to spend my time on Google maps following local creeks and rivers to their sources
@@stevensmith1031 I've done this with the Nile!
It's mentioned as a "bug" in the UESP, but based on the drawing of the classic foldout map of Skyrim, the river in the Rift seems like it was supposed to flow from the lake next to Riften to the lake by Ivarstead, then down the big waterfalls. It looks like the environmental devs accidentally made it flow the wrong way, which is why it has that weird nonsense spawning point next to Ivarstead. I wonder if any dedicated hydrologist modder created a mod just to fix that...
I checked that map and it doesn't have the river. Ivarstead is just no on a river on the paper map of Skyrim.
@@orangesilver8 I was talking about the Treva River on the paper map flowing the wrong way. The water next to Ivarstead is just supposed to be part of Lake Geir but they turned it into a weird river fork because they wanted a flowing waterway through the lumbermill.
there's a mod for one of the streams attached to lake illinalta, "half moon creek"
There are multiple mods that fix this issue, there are not hard to find
@@_Debulink us
I looked at the date expecting it to be 3-6 years ago but 1 month, shows how big skyrim still is
I think my favorite thing about videos like this is that everything you see was put there by a person. Someone made that little waterfall that comes out of a sheer rock wall. There's something really beautiful about a space that is entirely deliberate in that way
Its kinda spiritual, the fantasy or faith of a creationist world
It's like how religious people believe that everything was handcrafted but like, actually. Like I could find the dude who put that rock there on Twitter and tell him good job
This is why I love making games. Right now I'm working on the enviroments for Zukara and Pteranodon 2: Primal Island and it's my own little world. Even if the games don't come out great I take a little pride knowing I put everything down by hand for better or for worse
Sad to see all this handcraft being replaced by AI. And let's not kid ourselves: this _will_ happen. Same way CGI took over even the domains where practical effects worked better: they were just cheaper. Ten years from now, we'll be watching video essays explaining how come the new game worlds feel so artificial, same way you can always tell that Midjourney look from real art, even if you can't quite put your finger on it.
Athiest
In a landscape of video game streamers and “critics” hyperfixated on photo realism, graphical fidelity, p and fps and all that, what a blessing to watch this lovely man find joy in the imperfections of the medium and build a whole channel and following around this. One of the few truly unique video game youtubers imo
I really hate the people obsessed with FPS. Everything 30+ is absolutely ok and there's no excuse for saying otherwise. I always lose respect to a gamer who complains about it.
The water from Whiterun actually isn't sewage funny enough!
You'd think that from looking at it but in one of the books you can find in game, I believe it was in "King Olaf One-Eye's Verse" that you get for a Bard's College quest. But it says that part of the reason why the Companions originally set up shop where they did (in addition to it being where the Skyforge was built) was because of a natural spring residing at the top of the little mountain that provided a good place to recover after fights. It was said to posses healing properties which is why the Eldergleam cut was later planted where the magical spring flowed to as normal water wasn't able to support earlier attempts to plant cuts from the Eldergleam. That's also why the temple with the healers was constructed right next to the Eldergleam and the magical steam, so they could harness the alleged healing properties of the stream. Eventually King Olaf One-Eye created a private bathing area in the lower parts of Dragonsreach for himself, his family, his court, and his most esteemed guests, but he also made sure when it was constructed that the spring was still able to flow to the rest of the city to show respect to the Companions and obviously not harbor any bad blood between them and whatever Jarl would reside there, since the Companions are a very important historic part of Whiterun and it would be a great shame to disrespect them. The skeleton that's under the bridge at Dragonsreach is actually much older than you would expect but its decomposition has allegedly been halted by the restorative properties of the spring!
So yeah, the water that you marked as sewage is actually a natural spring alleged to have mystical healing properties and not entirely sewage! (though there is probably some sewage)
Sadly they didn't actually create the spring bath house as a place you could go in Skryim, I wish you could that would be really cool to see.
At least I could imagine that being the case in an Elder Scrolls game, I actually made all of that up, but it was pretty believable eh? Bethesda feel free to hire me for your writing team
You got me I almost made fun of you for being a Skyrim nerd
@@any_austin Coming from you that would have meant a lot haha
Yep. It's a spring that feeds into this video's main river, which is called White River, hence the settlement built atop the spring is called "Whiterun."
@@kevinturner7509 I'm glad I'm not the only one who knew about the White Spring!
I remember that lore from somewhere. Like I heard it secondhand from the old folks table at Thanksgiving or something.
I love that you're keeping your hair in place with all that metal for a special occasion, and I love that that occasion is not this video viewed by 1.5 million people.
skyrim's mountains are filled with caves, tombs, temples and entire cities carved into the rock and they have underground rivers and lakes that could act as a source of water for the tributaries.
This 100%, you can see some of the source of the Riverwood tributary inside the boss chamber of Bleak Falls Barrow.
Thus the name, which I think most people would sort of skim over lmao.
There's a really cool video on YT about the realism of Skyrim's ore generation as well, Bethesda are nothing if not good world builders
Blackreach water flows way down to Even Blacker Reach so none of the world's water comes from it. The question is does Blackreach's water come from the world?
I think I'm going to try to find out.
@@spejic1oh and by the way if you could survey the mountains to determine where the tectonic plates are in Skyrim and survey the agriculture to see if Skyrim could become self sufficient that could be great the government needs your help 😂
Looks to me like the Blackreach source is a series of waterfalls that come from under the mountains west of the Wayward Pass. There's no lake or river here, but there is lots of snow so it makes sense that melt from this comes down to Blackreach.
@@JRR-kc2pv I think that's Any Austin's job. Don't want to take away his reason for living.
Stream and river ecologist here! You inspired me to determine the stream order of the Skyrim rivers now. I spend a lot of time doing watershed delineation on mapping software and now I want to figure out Skyrim's watersheds lol
That sounds awesome you should make it a video
I would love that video too...I've never played Skyrim
@@daddyleonwhat are you waiting for bro, skyrim is a once in a lifetime experience ngl
Plot twist: it's just the Greybeards shouting "WOTAH" in draconic
I AM REGISTERING MY INTEREST IN A VIDEO
When Tears of the Kingdom came out I crafted a basic raft and sailed it from the base of the Lanayru Great Spring to Lake Hylia. One of the most immersive game experiences I've ever had and really allowed me to appreciate the work the designers put into the map.
Oh wow, that sounds amazing!
Did you catch the new hyrule rivers vid yet? seeing this comment just made me feel like i'd hate for you to miss it.
I had a dream where you were livestresming, and everyone in chat was having fun talking about aquafers and their roles in videogames as well as real life. There were no arguments, no conflicts, just people enjoying talking about underground water.
Austin: "Does anything else feed into this lake? Well the only way to find that out is-"
Me, trained like Pavlov's dogs: "A direct survey? 😮"
Same here man, same here
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys.
In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
Dude SAME
@@ravaxander4492 what
@@ravaxander4492Skyrim belongs to the Empire!
I literally did this for a job once! I was paid to hike up a creek and all of its tributaries, classify them, and find erosion points! I can talk more about this if anyone has any questions. Our survey was more focused on the pollution and erosion question as well as updating a ~20 year old report.
That’s awesome
Do you have to work as a sort of park ranger or be a general employee for a local state/govermment, or is it some university funded research to do this line of work?
Sounds like a cool job. What do you mean by erosion point? Were you looking for springs?
Watching this video made we want to go on an adventure like that exploring a river near where I live but then I looked at a map and realised it's not really a river more of a river-shaped bay
I have a question. Why do you say literally like an autistic valley girl?
As I have gotten older I have realised that playing skyrim for the first time was one of the greatest experiences of my life
I was solidly an adult when it came out, and I still agree. It was a phenomenal game experience!
100%
Agreed for sure. I haven’t played it in a few years. I think I’ll download some mods and start a new run through
Damn, that's kinda depressing
Same. Making that first character, getting to riverwood, killing a chicken and getting murdered for it. Having to start a new character because the 1st one never respawned. It was a life altering moment.
07:44 There are underground lakes/caves where the water could come from and colder and warmer water gets pushed out, thats why it splits
The banality is the beauty. Like walking through a random urban area without any "Sightseeing spot", just admiring the little gardens and comfortable houses from the outside.
Years ago when Google+ was a thing I went on a bunch of photowalks with other photographers from around the state and that was exactly what we did. We walked down the little alleyways looking at the graffiti and stickers on the wall. We walked into the tiny little carparks hidden on back street to photograph an emergency fire escape staircase. I really miss those walks because I had an amazing time just looking at nothing.
Sure we were just minutes away from a massive stadium or right near a statue of some big famous person, but there was coolness in just poking around the little two-person-wide alleys that went between two houses as a shortcut to another road, or going on a pedestrian overpass to peer into someone's backyard or something.
@@SolidIncMedia That is the way. When I was in Rome, you couldn't really "enjoy" the usual sightseeing destinations because it was just to full of people - both tourists and street merchants. Find your own highlights and beauty among the concrete and steel.
@@JachymorDotairst time we went to New York we did the tourist thing. Went to Madam Tussauds, to Time Square, to the Empire State and so on. I loved it, but next time I want to see the lesser travelled areas. There's room for both, but sometimes it takes two trips
@@SolidIncMedia Have you *really* experienced a place until you've worriedly looked over you shoulder after wandering into a rough part of town and had to reassure yourself that you're fine and nothing seems out of the ordinary?
"I'm still dealing with object permanence on an emotional level"
Same. I find it really calming to go on Maps, find a new place, and then drive there to see that it actually exists. Anybody else?
I totally relate to this! It's an amazing feeling to see a place in real life that you've only ever seen online.
That satisfaction of exploring places that you've always seen from a distance or passed by before is so addicting lol. Sometimes I go online just to see pics inside buildings for no reason other than curiosity
No I live in a shitty area :( I do however like driving past places then later seeing what they are or where they lead to on Google maps
Same but in vr
As often as I can!
In Germany we actually do have a spot where a river just pops into existence and comes up from the ground like in 8:00 The “Aachtopf”. Looks really cool. The Danube (europes second longest river) looses water to a cave system and at the Aachtopf it reappears from the ground.
lol I was thinking about the exact same thing too. Stumbled across it some time ago in a Wikipedia Session
That can also happen for lakes, where the source of the water is just under the lake, or it's the result of seasonal melting of snow that don't feed into it all year round
Europe's largest river is the Volga!
@@ncrranger2281 True - don't know where I got that from. Corrected.
@@bronzekoala9141 Good!
I stumbled across the Morrowind rivers video yesterday and that's how I learned what a Slough was. And now I can't stop with these things
“I’m still working on object permanence… like emotionally”
Wildly relatable. And same. But I’ve never been able to put it to words
That’s hilarious considering that it’s something that most people usually figure out by the time they hit the ripe old age of 2 years old lmao
@@MerkhVision exactly it’s so funny I love it
A lack of emotional object permanence is extremely common in things like ADHD, BPD and autism.
"I can't remember how I felt 5 minutes ago so that emotion no longer exists to me" kinda thing
@@jaebebifi it’s true it’s real. Although the wording makes me think he’s more figuring out how to respond emotionally to the idea that something is bigger than he can see. But still. Very real
@@MerkhVision whoosh, he's talking about emotional object permenanance... as in friends leaving you not literal object permance that's developed at an early age. It's dry humor.
I appreciate that when you noticed the river flowing in opposite directions you didn't immediately deride or insult the developers for giving up and breaking the game world, you appreciated that many would not notice the opposite flows, and that the existing work put into the logic of the lakes was already impressive. Really enjoyed that positive spin.
Great video.
If i went on a little coffee date with someone and they talked about the layout of the rivers of skyrim and how they make them feel emotionally for 13 minutes straight, there'd be a second date.
That autistic rizz is powerful stuff
date? that’s grounds for a proposal right there
@@DjNitroShockand then oblivion ever after
It's likely he worships Namira.
Same
Hi I don't usually comment but I've gone through a lot of near death stuff for the past year and your videos are the only thing I've found I can fall asleep to. You often say "let me know if you like this so I can make what you like" and here I am saying please make more because you really really help my anxiety. I'm a big fan of the skyrim things because it's super pretty, I also really love the sky box series for the same reason. I like escapism but I was never good at video games, I'm glad I get to experience them through you. Thank you
Nice! Love this. Former hydrogeologist here. Technically, I guess all the issues with say, the big lake at 8:50 all of a sudden getting huge can somewhat realistically be explained by the lake being fed groundwater (so it is a "gaining" lake). The water literally comes into the lake through the ground below it. Same goes for all of the rivers that don't seem to have a legitimate visible source. Gaining streams (and losing streams) are a natural hydrogeologic phenomenon, all a part of our real world.
Thanks for your message, I was looking for someone that had already explained the phenomenom, and you did ! 😉
Indeed, depending on the geology of the area, it is possible to find lakes with several outlets (multifurcation lakes).
Subsurface flows can also be tricky since you don't see any tributary and the water seems to emerge from nowhere (but it actually percolates through sediment / cracks).
"I'm still working on object permanence in a way...like emotionally."
That hit too close to home. I felt that.
6:40 "hang on let me go kill this dragon so I can get back to talking about this water wheel"
This is what happens to every god slaying rpg protag after they've retired
I am imagining this guy's Dragonborn as being a reluctant hero who has the power to slay everything as a Viking badass tends to... but to him, they are simply annoying obstacles preventing his peaceful research and cartography.
Peak Skyrim.
Man, don't you love it when many different people are into the same thing and are thus able to explain different things about how it works to each other? My favourite kind of human interaction
When I first played Skyrim, I immediately got separated from the guy that guides you to Riverwood. And so, I thought to myself “to find a town, I should just follow water!” and proceeded to look for a river. Stumbled into a bandit camp, made it out alive, found the river and followed it… and arrived in Riverwood. I had been pleasantly surprised that the idea worked.
You are absolutely right, but also I have to say, if you could NOT find a town called 'Riverwood' by following a river, then the game devs were being exceptionally lazy...
@@Fledhyris Which is something current Bethesda would absolutely do.
Hell yeah
I like how Breath of the Wild made more Gamers Start thinking about this stuff. XD
I'm always astounded that real life waterfalls literally feel infinite, as if there's an unending amount of water in the earth for it to be spewing that much ALL THE TIME!
I legit don’t get it.
The wata evaporates and goes back up no?
Yeah but the fact that it can achieve that foamy cascading equilibrium boggles the mind@@nuin9937
@nuin9937 exactly, it’s a cycle. It goes up, and comes back down, and then goes up again, and comes back down again.
It’s because Earth is a closed system
The environmental artists for this game don't get enough credit. If you check out the types of potions you can make with just the reagents you find in a zone, those alone can tell you a lot about the zone itself. There's a lot of Persuasion and Thievery related stuff near Riften, Antimagic near Whiterun tying in with the hall being used to bind dragons, all the battles and mass graves in Falkreath have the area saturated with deadly ingredients. It's also neat when you start to figure out where specific ingredients can be located like Fly Amanita spawns where a guard would take a piss, White Cap where ppl drop a deuce, Milkthistle grows outside a lot of houses and barns and is often used to settle stomachs irl...shit like that.
I was curious how water even has a chance to form rivers with something as big as Blackreach beneath all the mountains. You'd figure structures like that would severely limit the space for aquifers.
The trivial details Bethesda usually puts in are what make the bugs tolerable. I love searching a non menu'd crate to find a bandit's cache hidden away.
@@avenger3163 wth is a non menud crate?
@@Exel3nce some crates you walk up to say "press "x" to open." Some are smashed open or just don't have a lid, so you loot them by putting your camera in them. Theres a LOT of hidden loot in certain places, gems in urns, weapons and potions in open chests, etc.
@@avenger3163 huh ok then. Nothing comes to mind except bg3
This was... incredible. It's wonderful to know that someone else plays games like me.
i live in the mountains, theres a funny little canyon a few miles from my house. if you go up it long enough you find a small stream slowly appearing as you go up the narrow canyon. its then gets bigger as you go uphill, you notice it actually flows more as you go up. then it slows down and dissapears. the water seems to just seep out of the mountains and then back in about half a mile later
Wow
You’ve discovered how groundwater works.
You found a spawn of water, one of the creators bug
Most of what we see as rivers are actually underground.
@@sheepith204badass little discovery
3:40 - While the water most likely mixes with the city's waste, there's a high probability a natural water source is underneath the palace. From what I remember, the hill Whiterun is built on is a magical place so it wouldn't be out of place.
7:35 - Maybe the source is under the surface of the water coming out of the wall? It probably still would flow in one direction after creating a riverbed but I'm not sure.
Who needs electric pumps when you have literal wizards?
What’s the backstory on Whiterun’s hill being magical? Sounds interesting, what’s that about?
@@MerkhVision Honestly, couldn't tell you. I just remember watching some lore videos on the topic and there was something about it but I don't really remember anything. I vaguely remember a possibility of it being a meteor and gods' influence. I think if you dig for info about the forge there and the shrine underneath it you should find something.
@@MerkhVisionBefore the nords came from Atmora and the Companions of Ysgramor estabilished the meadhall of Jorrvaskr around which Whiterun would get built the giant bird of the Skyforge or even the forge itself was already there but Falmer (before getting shroomed by Dwemer) avoided the site. It might have been a place of worship estabilished by Nedes (ancestors to Bretons, Reachmen and Imperials and other human cultures that are now extinct), but their metallurgy was very primitive so a forge doesnt make sense, goddess Kyne/Kynareth is often represented as a Hawk but she has little to do with smithing, alternatively it might have something to do with the Elhnofey War. The hill and the forge are somehow connected to some divine powers, but there is no concrete answer.
The weird reverse direction by Iverstead, might also just be the surface currents. The river where i live used to be very important in timber transportation, and so they had issues with the surface currents sometimes going upriver enough to slow or reverse the lumber going down. The surface of a river might deceive you ;)
Whiterun: _How does it feel to have our power sources interlinked?_ *Interlinked.*
Ivarstead: *I N T E R L I N K E D .*
I also thought the same think lmao
Cells
@@AverageWagie2024 *Interlinked cells*
The gratification, I had hoped to see a comment like this so badly 😂😂
WITHIN CELLS.
INTERLINKED.
Your greenscreen on-the-street style is inherently fucking hilarious and awesome and just works. I gotta sub ya my boi
I used to live near Pittsburgh, PA. This is significant because Pittsburgh is built right where two rivers combine into a third river. These rivers are a major reason the city is a city, it allowed trade from all over the country even before we had a railway system.
My family used to live near Wheeling, West Virginia. Right along the river that goes through the city. One day, my family was in Pittsburgh visiting me and saw some coal barges on the river and said, “those look like the ones that pass by my house!”
They are literally the same ones. It’s the same river. Coal from West Virginia gets transported along the river to Pittsburgh, where it gets turned into Pittsburgh steel.
To your point about the river powering saw mills in different parts of the world. Not only are rivers connecting towns and cities, sometimes rivers are the reason for the city.
Rivers have been important places all throughout history.
With cities usually growing either at the start or end of a river (like where it flows out of a lake or into the ocean), where rivers meet (because that makes for a defensible position that already comes with a moat) or where a river is shallow enough to pass it (a ford)
And in the Medival world of Skyrim, rivers are one of the BIGGEST reasons for cities to be built. They provide easy access to drinking water (obv) but also help with industry, provides natural fortifications, makes it easier to travel and so much more
Seriously, do any of the actual cities not have a river running through it?
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys.
In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
@@ravaxander4492 ok traitor
Reading comments and watching this video makes me question americas education system.
We learned this shit in 3rd grade.
"I'm honestly not totally sure what I find interesting about all of this."
That was exactly my thought as I was watching this video. It is fascinating, but I don't know why. I want more.
monkey brain like river river clean water source
"Now, the vertical striations of this cliff show it was pushed up from the landscape, but if we look on the other side of the continent... THE SAME STRIATIONS! This boulder had to have been moved from up-stream. And if it hadn't this whole lake wouldn't have been dammed and half these villages wouldn't have a coast."
"Or a dragon moved it here."
Traditionally giants are said to be responsible for random boulders in unusual or specific places.
This video makes me feel good. I remember absolutely loving to see the little streams and rivers in this game. Even to this day they still amaze me with how good they look (for a 2011 game especially).
Austin, dude--you have no idea how happy this video made me. I'm graduating with my bachelor's degree in Geology in a few days, and seeing you talk about the hydrology and geomorphology of freaking Skyrim was so, so cathartic after having to complete a huge trip to the Verde River headwaters and then writing a 23-page paper on its hydrology! I loved seeing you examine the stuff that checks out (the springs, the waterfalls, the lakes) and the stuff that's very obviously the developers going, "Aight, that's good enough." You've made me appreciate all the games I've played in a whole new light! Just thanks again, man, and hope you're doing great! Your videos are definitely some of the most unique and enjoyable ones on the entire platform.
huge congrats on ur geo degree!! i’m about to head to field camp soon :D
Imagine being the guy living in a tiny settlement of about a dozen people, and some dude walks up rambling about rivers and sources and tributaries, and a dragon swoops down to attack. Instead of dying a fiery death, this crazy guy casually solos the demon lizard, muttering about the inconvenience, before scrutinizing the water again, making a few lines on a sketch pad, and wandering further up the mountain to search for "answers"
And all Gandalf the Grey had to do to become a legend was set off a few fireworks!
My guy spent however long manually jumping up cliffs instead of noclipping lol, respect
Went looking for this comment 😂
Don't use no clip! It ruins the immersion!
At the end of the day, what matters is what is shown to the player.
He did also not just console kill the dragon. A true hero...
The "split" river at 7:30 was probably meant to flow in the direction of the waterfall in its entirety, and the source of it all be the lake, but they forgot to double check
What drives me just a little crazy about the split of the river at Ivarstead is that they could have sold the big lake as being the source of both rivers with multiple outflows (especially since it's perched in that hanging basin with a complex waterfall system spilling off at both ends). Of course I'd want to put a bunch of little tributaries and creeks flowing *into* the lake (and the same with the big lake above Riverwood) from further up in the mountains... God, it would be a dream to plot out terrain for a big game like this starting from hydrology. The bedrock and the hydrology should be the framework upon which everything else is built.
"I'm still working on object permanence, in a way... emotionally." That gave me a hearty laugh.
Also loved you getting annoyed by a dragon on your river adventure. Good video 👍
this is an adhd thing
Seeing Skyrim's cover with the Nintendo Switch logo on it at 0:04 feels illegal
Time coding something that happens literally at the start of the video should be illegal
@@montsombreSE no it's still very welcome because sometimes you miss something and read the comments halfways through
I get that but... we Nintendo players deserve this masterpiece too. (No clue why he picked the Nintendo cover tho)
@@melandor0 that might be indicative of your attention span 💀
@@melandor0 you could literally just say “at the start”, you space cadet
there’s just something satisfying about knowing. the satisfaction of having a question, or not even a query just a daydreamy sorta “i wonder”, and then finding out.
I really respect that you didn't use no clip or anything you actually jumped up the rocks and stuff. It adds to the feel of you actually playing and exploring the game. Your videos help give me appreciation for the mundane aspects of games.
as someone who enjoys the 'pick a random thought and follow it' style of video game playing your videos are such a treat
water is often thought of as either moving (ie rivers, streams) or stationary (lakes, ocean). however, water works on a spectrum from stationarymoving. When the smaller river originating in Ivarsted suddenly became wide without any additional streams feeding in, its because the geometry of that area needed water to pool up in excess before it could spill over and continue flowing. Essentially, there is a river flowing on top of a small lake or pond.
This doesn't make sense to me. Stationary and moving are binary states. The moment *any* movement is introduced, you, well, move from the stationary state to the moving state. There's no spectrum between the two. Movement itself is a spectrum, where you can move slowly, quickly or in between.
@@Askorti yes this is correct for individual mollecules. But a water mollecule doesnt know what a river or lake is, so when a river forms what is basically a mini lake that has a stream feeding water in, and a stream flowing out, our brains percieves it as a singular river suddenly getting way bigger.
@@Askortiwhat OP said- also if you want to define stillness strictly, the water in a lake isn’t completely still, there’s still wind and animals and inflows causing currents
It’s simply the admiration that someone sat down and took the time to detail and visually construct and properly insert something as pointless as realistic water sourcing. And it’s absolutely beautiful, no one expected someone to make a video about this, or likely even expected anyone to think about it twice or even once, yet someone did the research necessary, and took the time to do so, without ever expecting any recognition for such work. Or maybe I’m reading into it too much idk I’m high asf
This was strangely fascinating to watch.
The river you were following is called the White River. It flows from Lake Ilinalta and into the Sea of Ghosts.
The tributary that comes from Ivarstead is called Darkwater, and the one near Windhelm is River Yorgrim.
Yeah, I was surprised he didn't start *AT* Lake Ilinalta, the *obvious* source of the White River. =0[.]o=
I knew that this river was called the White River, but your comment just made me realise that Whiterun could be so named because its waters *run* into the *White* river (or named after Whiterun Hold, where the White river runs!)
Granted, Whiterun was a city in Arena and I don't think that the White River was a thing, but it's neat to see that kind of attention to world building.
@@stratospherica A run is actually a type of creek in somewhat antiquated English. You'll see things called "Brigham's Run" or somesuch in the Eastern US on occasion.
I remember playing an herbalist who was doing biology research on Skyrim, and I camped in the Whiterun region for ages cataloguing flora and fauna. It was really fun, I loved seeing the way the devs planted every tree and plant.
8:01 "a secret handshake directly with the video game" might as well be the subtitle of this entire youtube channel. Great work
I have seen many springs that come straight out from the ground like that so that's not far from reality
I know all about Skyrims waterways because they're the safest way to travel as an Argonian.
I grew up in northern New Hampshire, and one of my favorite things to do as a kid was follow the rivers near my house. People have told me I anthropomorphize things a bit too much, but for me, following a river really feels like following its life. You find its beginning, and as you follow it along you can see it grow, collecting water from the places it travels. It really feels like you're on an adventure together, and as you get to know the river, it gets to know you. You see it struggle through some areas and roar through others, it sees you slip and catches you, it guides you with its sound. You mentioned this a bit in the video, but most rivers will end in the ocean or a larger body of water, and reaching the end really feels like such a bittersweet goodbye. This river you've gotten to know so well slips into something larger, its individuality lost as it blends with so many others. But the best part it you can always walk its length again, find your favorite places and discover new ones. I think there's a lot of things in nature like this, climbing a mountain to its top, or a cave to its center. The world is such a beautiful place to discover, and videogames are such a fascinating lens to see the world refracted through.
Sheesh sorry for the length, I really let this comment get away from me.
this is such a cool sentiment. nature is after all alive.
My dad's from rural Vermont in the summer he'd take an inner tube down the river with all his stepbrothers and cousins and stepcousins until he got to the next town where his father would know to meet him and they'd all get in towels in the truckbed and ride back home!
That's so lovely, I wholeheartedly relate.
This is such a wonderful comment. Thank you for writing about it!
The nice thing is, while the river you can follow may 'end' at the lake or sea (or sometimes in a great basin or swamp!), it hasn't truly ended. Those that reach the sea join in a massive circulation, continuing as one for a time before separating and either evaporating or being pulled along by one of the many currents that, themselves, create a global, underwater 'river'-like system which can circulate almost endlessly in its current state.
And the water that does evaporate, whether from a lake or basin or swamp or sea, is carried along by wind currents much as the water currents flow! And that water eventually falls again as precipitation, which collects and seeps and joins new river systems to make the journey all over again!
It's little wonder why water and rivers are often used as metaphors for life or memory, beyond it's necessity for survival.
I think an additional possible reason why you found this interesting to do is because it's a small little game you've made out of it. You set a goal for the game, with various rules, and along the way to the finish line you found a multitude of interesting pieces of information, such as the underground rivers becoming spontaneous waterfalls. There is also the side factor of just being able to enjoy the scenery in a leisurely pace. You're not off to save (or doom) the world. You're just on a little hike, and sometimes that in itself is fun. Sometimes.
Anyways, 'twas fun for me to watch, so thank you for the video! :D
We used to call this "emergent gameplay"
that spot in ivarstead could've been a subterranean river emerging at a bit of a high point on the landform. the water appears to be rushing out in the direction that the river is emerging, and the distinct elevation change combined with the pressure of the flow is creating the higher rate of movement, but the rocks in the waterfall plus unseen depth in the channel could be causing a backflow, which combined with a slight elevation change in that direction (towards the lake) would create the pooling effect you see. when you look at the water, there is the obvious downstream flow toward the waterfall, but the other side appears to have ripples running perpendicular to the flow, which should indicate a relative stillness/very slight flow of the water in that direction. so at that point the water is very slightly running in that direction where it found a channel, or possibly is running in a shallow diversion channel created by the citizens of ivarstead to either prevent the backflow from flooding the village or to use in some form of irrigation. the lake it runs into is a perfect intake for that water. now i feel like i need to reinstall skyrim to look into this one a bit more haha.
Do it and inform us about your findings.
Or maybe its a portal to a plane of oblivion filled with water seeping in to the mortal realm, who knows😊
it could have been a bug/oversight in the water flow system too, skyrim is full of those.
if the water feeding the Ivarstad river came from lake Halcyon around Riften it would make total sense just like it comes from lake Ilinata to feed the whiteriver that pass through whiterun.
as an environmental scientist with a degree/concentration in surface water hydrology & a partner who loves Skyrim....thank you for making this. perfect blend of our interests. was fully fascinated as soon as the video started
This is my absolute favourite kind of video game content. Digging into the mechanics but in a fun way instead of a critical way. Exploring how the world is assembled and tracing oddities to their sources for no other reason than we can. Because some games are built in such a way that it can work.
I think the appeal is due to patterns.
Human brains love finding patterns in things, and following a river to its source is like figuring out a complex pattern. And when you find something that doesn't fit the pattern, it's like a little victory over what was presented to you (Aha! I outsmarted the system and broke the code!). There might even be a small humour element - one of the most common bases of comedy is the breaking of an expected pattern.
5:44 “If you also think it’s interesting, tell me why”
My guess is my ‘tism drives the interest in mundane and hyper-focused concepts such as these. Hope this helps.
I wonder what the reason is for hyper-fixating on the mundane in certain people with certain expressions of autism
If I was wagering an educated guess, I’d say it is likely linked to the overactivity of the Orbitofrontal Cortex in the brain. Which is what tends to drive OCD and pattern-obsessive behaviors. I’d guess in ASD, an obsessive love/interest in the mundane is a way this neurological impulse can express in certain personalities.
i wanted to say "it's the autism for me" and checked the comments to see if someone said it already 😂
i think it might be a sensory thing too? at least for me i really enjoy mundane things and nature because they tend to be a lot less stimulating than the average environment
@@blockieran it is almost definitely that. Not that there is anything wrong with it, and has probably been the case with almost every area of interest since the beginning of civilization.
5:46 man idunno i just like hearing you ramble about games i like
back when i was a kid, there was this PS2 game i loved to play called "everywhere road trip". it was a japanese game where you play as a car, driving around the world and talking to other cars (by ramming into them), winning races and buying upgrades, collecting knick-knacks for your garage and hunting for collectibles. inside your garage is a PC where you can check your email, and you get random emails from fans, strangers, chain-letters, and other miscellaneous spam. one of them really stood out to me when i was little:
"The rivers end at the sea, but where do they begin?
Do you want to follow the river with me?
I think we can find some answers.
Why not, ?"
so i went and did it. and yeah, you _can_ follow the rivers to their source, somewhere up on White Mountain. they kinda just come out of caves in the wall, and there's little riverbanks you can drive up on. there's even one of the secret gemstones hidden underneath one of the waterfalls to reward you for exploring. i love things like that in games.
now i want to play this game, thanks for this comment
"Struggling with object permanence but emotionally" sounds like aphantasia, which is what I have, and the reason I find your graphics very helpful!
Saw this video in my recommendeds and I'm glad I clicked it. Someone exploring something super specific and simple and managing to make it funny and engaging is like my favourite TH-cam genre
There are several channels I follow not because I'm super into the subject matter myself, but because I really enjoy the person being so into the thing they're into. Watching their interest is engaging
you exactly said it for why this kind of thing is so interesting; it’s like giving a handshake 🤝 it’s just cool to see the human part of it, the creativity, and the steps it took
You made a comment about 5:30 that said you just want to know where the water comes from and while I watched the video for a giggle - I feel this sentiment in my core. I was in Alaska on a cruise and when we docked I looked up at the mountain range and saw a small river - my absolute first thought was "I want to go drink from the base of that river". So my wife went on to explore the town with her sister and I went up the mountain, 4 hours later drank from (what I could find of) the base and then got lost coming back down the mountain and thankfully found locals who were hiking and they invited me to their house and showed me the way back to town. It was pretty damn epic.
Hell yeah, that's the type of adventure I strive for. (Would prolly shit my pants when realized I was lost, but okay)
I think part of what makes this interesting is that, from a design perspective, I doubt the rivers were constructed starting at their origins. I would imagine the designers placed cities, and lakes, and promptly connected those on a world map. What would follow is the process of actually finding where that river going through a town comes from, where it'll end up, and how it all ties into the surrounding area. I can also imagine this is why eventually they run into a problem of realism, where there are deadlines to meet, milestones to reach, and it forces them to settle for a non-ideal solution to a design problem far removed from the enjoyment of gamers.
Videos like this make it seem unfathomable to create a world like this, and it solidifies why game credit sequences have hundreds upon hundreds of names in them.
Worldbuilding starting at the bottom. A valid method.
To be fair, it's not like Skyrim (the province) was just poofed into existence when the game came out. The release of Arena and Skyrim are 17 years apart. Arena's map of Tamriel is pretty close to what it currently is as well.
So while a lot of those official maps don't really show waterways, there was plenty of time to figure those out, and I'm sure someone did well before Skyrim was ever even planned. There's plenty of people that obsess over maps, and I'm sure there were quite a few on the dev teams over those 17 years.
I love that a game like Skyrim almost 15 years old keeps getting explored and Videos made of it :D also I love the way of your presentation, no standart face cam footage, my boy is standing in front of his presentation with a mic in his hand. Bro you are so cool and made my day and for that youre a legend
Somewhere in the basement of Dragonsreach is a goblet with a summon water enchantement lying on it's side under some rubble. Farengar have been trying to find it forever.
I love how more people every day are taking the general Sam stand up move around with the mic approach in front of the green screen instead of just sitting in a chair.
That guys very funny , I had a friend like him in school .
@@MrAaronbill I never went to school
@@vidarhjal by the way I wrote that sentence it looks like I didnt either .
NakeyJakey style
Austin, thanks for this video. It inspired me to pop in Skyrim and travel on roads with my horse. I discovered about 2 dozen locations. I walked from Whiterun to Windhelm, then Whiterun to Riften. It was a delightful way to relax and I discovered new things about a game I've loved for over a decade.
Never fast travel in Bethesda game, unless really necessary.
The other day I was thinking how it’s so cool how rocks in the rivers break the current and the water has to go around it. Also the bit of calm water right after the rock is interesting and adds to the realism. Skyrim is cool
We learned many interesting things in this video, but the most shocking is that Austin allegedly enjoy videogames the normal way, he just likes to share the weird way to enjoy them for some reason
Well everybody else is already sharing the normal way
"I do play these games nornally. Please believe me"
Press X to Doubt.
You mean this isn't normal?
I like Stormcloaks and I don't like imperial legion fanboys.
In the Skyrim Civil War, the Stormcloaks are right and the Imperial Legion is wrong, and the Stormcloaks are better than imperial legion. Ulfric Stormcloak is hero and good character. General tullius is idiot and villain.
@@ravaxander4492gotta remember ulfric is also a thalmor asset albeit dormant which is revealed in the diplomatic immunity quest to find Esbern. They fed him info that he had given up information about the empire and essentially groomed him into being their divide and conquer weapon against Skyrim and the Empire
When I found that spot where the river comes from no where and splits in two directions, I assumed there was a massive cave system feeding it from high in the mountains. It's just fun to imagine that kind of thing. Also the wide creek makes sense if you assume the ripples are more from wind than water flow.
This video aligns with my interests so perfectly that I hate that I didn't think of this idea first.
Awesome video, great job!