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Atheist Says God Isn’t All-Powerful Unless He DEFEATS Himself
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- In today’s example, molecular biologist Mark D’Arcy offers a question meant to challenge the idea of an omnipotent-that is, all powerful-God. The tweet reads: "Can God create a stone that cannot be lifted? If yes, then he is not all powerful since he Himself cannot lift it. If he cannot create a stone that cannot be lifted, then he is not all powerful. Either way, God is not all powerful."
This challenge is plagued with problems. First, omnipotence is not the power to do anything. Rather, it’s the ability to do anything power can do. Even infinite power cannot do what is contradictory or absurd. This isn’t a limit on God’s power. It’s a limit on the kinds of questions we should be asking about God’s power.
Second, it’s an illogical question. That’s because it subtly smuggles in a contradiction by asking if God’s omnipotence can defeat His omnipotence. It’s like asking, “Can God win in arm wrestling match against Himself?” It’s nonsense.
Ironically, in his attempt to show the incoherence of an omnipotent Creator, this atheist relies on an incoherent question.
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I love the response of CS Lewis to this question: "His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to Him, but not nonsense. ... It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of His creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because His power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God."
almightiness already includes not almightiness.
God if he wants might be not almighty.
Being able to punch a hole through logic should be one of his abilities as well.
In this sense god is weaker than any novel character that can break the 4th wall.
God is not described as “all powerful in the limits of logic” he is described ALL-ABLE and yes, potence is actually ability not power.. (check the meaning of Possum)
he should be, by definition literally, be ABLE to do ANYthing.
Which is beyond logic.
@@jajauxhal7846 Interpretation is a bliss.
If you read comic books what would the flash comics look like if they were real he can run faster the the speed of light and time travel he could solve any problem on less then half a page or stop it before it happens but that’s not gonna sale books the same with the Bible if god sent satan to hell in the beginning or even Saturn no original sin no story no books sold
And he could create the entire universe but he couldn’t write a book nether god or Jesus never wrote anything in the book that’s his word
@@jajauxhal7846 God does not go against his nature. Logic is part of his nature. Thats also why he isn't able to stop existing, because part of his nature is that he is timeless and without beginning or end.
I'm soooo glad God saved me from my atheism! I typically respond to these absurdities with "Yes".
....KISS answer....loving it....very assertive...no long winded defense given....just simply....YES!
If all you say is yes then you don’t have a good enough reason
@@max.z.2809 Really? So Ben refuses to waste his valuable time on a pointless argument and that qualifies you, pressumably a complete stranger, to make a conclusion on his reasons which you have not yet even heard. Just fantastic logic there buddy. 🙄
Amen, same here. Been two years now.
@@Ap31920 He asserted God and absurdities which invites commentary. If he didn't want commentary from _strangers_ then best he keeps his opinions to himself.
I remember when I was a young dumb Atheist. Basically a following of argumentative and undereducated (in matters of the Bible) people who twist specific Biblical scriptures to suit a narrative. Basically like reading the middle 10 pages of a novel and make your own conclusions of the beginning and the end of it. The Bible NEEDS to be studied, not just read from cover to cover. Its challenging, yes. But understanding this letter from God is worth it.
I agree with you
The Jewish messiah is a king not god and he’s blood related to king David the only way Jesus is related to king David was if Joseph was his blood father not god but Yahweh is a god from the Canaanite pantheon he’s not a three in one god and he wasn’t the creator or the most powerful read your book then educate your self
By looking up what it says instead of just believing it I’ve seen Christian’s and atheists argue the Noah’s ark story from the book but if you go out of the book the story is not true because there would have to be thousands of years of no human animal or plant activity any were on the planet for a flood that happened 4000 years ago china and India are just as old as the Bible they didn’t notice the flood i can tell you first hand I listened to a Jewish rabbi
Reading prophecies of god from the Bible and thinking I’m going to hell but for some reason god doesn’t mention hell or having a son to the people that he told happens when you did look it up for your self not just blind faith because the devil is going to deceive the nation’s by doing things that make people believe he’s god
I completely agree with you, there is a lot of ignorance among both believers & nonbelievers, there are some people who claim to be believers who will twist verses in the Bible to suit themselves & nonbelievers will take verses out of context without reading/studying them in their entirety. The Bible needs to be read & studied carefully & thoroughly as well as the cultures & time period involved with it.
What preachers and apologists don't tell you tho, or they rarely preach up there in the pulpit is the POLITICAL CONTEXT of the Gospels.
Try researching it.
@@jeremy625ful that's not how it works, Yeshuah was an heir to King David by his mother Myriam. His father was Yah.
Messiah didnt come here to free us from Rome, He came to free us from sin.
If we want coherent answers, then we must ask coherent questions.
If we have eliminated all of the possibility, then we're only left with the impossible.
Step one of the Scientific method is to define the question. And if the question is incoherent and self-contradictory, then even the matchless method cannot help us. Well-spotted Sir.
*"...only the impossible..."*
Wouldn't that be convenient if it were true.
You have forgotten about what is _unknown_ which is usually the case
@@trollobite1629 Even the unkown exists within the set of possible worlds. A and ~A cannot both be true in the same sense simultaneously in any possible worlds. It is not unkown, it is logically impossible. So what's actually convenient and also desperate is throwing logic out of the window when it doesnt supports your stupid paradoxes.
@@trollobite1629 Atheists spend way too much time taking stuff out of context to sound intelligent.
@@TheSpacePlaceYT Apologists spend way too much time filling in the unknown with God of the gaps arguments and other kinds of horse shit rather than saying they don't know and in the process, definitely don't sound intelligent.
It is really frustrating that people still use this argument
they use it because in their mind its a shield against their own conviction which they would never admit drives them to attempt to prove these things to themselves usually by asking someone completely ignorant of the question, like a kid, just so the kid will fail so they can gain a small amount of confidence off it because in their mind if they're going down they want to bring others with them which wont actually happen because no one is responsible for one's fate but themselves.
If it’s frustrating then it means you struggle to give a reply
@@max.z.2809 no it’s frustrating because this has been refuted so many times in so many different ways and people STILL think it’s a good argument
@@RadicOmega well what’s your argument against it then
@@max.z.2809 just watch the video
Has anyone else noticed how atheist evangelizers present their arguments as "new" or "never been thought of before?" When the reality is, these arguments, much like the one refuted today, have been made and have been rebuffed before. For as long as we've had God(s) we've had apostates, disbelievers, and anti-theists and they've made these very same arguments over and over again and they still don't gain traction. As religious scholars have often noted: There's nothing "new" in the "New Atheist Movement."
There are only about 20 arguments atheists use over and over, all of which have been answered.
Next day, they just repeat the same.
@@sparkyy0007 Lather. Rinse. Repeat!
They're banking on the ignorance of Christians. Hopefully Christians are learning.
Who created God? That’s a new one! Checkmate, I’m such a free-thinking original person! /s
*"...refuted today..."*
Denial isn't refutation, you can't even offer up evidence of God's existence, the best you have is philosophical sophistry of the kind peddled by WLC.
"God can create a stone so big he can't lift it, and he can lift it." I laughed so hard. 🤣 classic line!
Last year my cousin asked me this. I was so confused by his question and what his point was so all I could say was “I cannot answer you because I don’t get what you’re asking me.” The day later I relayed the conversation to my apologetics teacher and he looked at me for a minute and said “he’s asking if God can do something illogical, but God is logical and created logic. He cannot do something illogical, because He is logical.” And then I understood why I was so confused by my cousins question. I was confused by it because it was nonsensical.
God isn't logical, we can't even comprehend what God looks like. We'd literally die if we looked at God
@@Lammy2023that has nothing to do with God being logical or not
@@hakushokuhikari it does. God is very complex, and so is his appearance.
@Lammy2023 So you don't know what logical means. Got it.
@@Lammy2023Lammy do you even know what logic is? It has nothing to do with if something has an appearance or not.
After spending half an hour contemplating this question, considering the many ways it can be approached, I finally realised, it's a time-sponge; designed to absorb the mind in meaningless thought, soaking up precious moments, distracting from better enqueries and pursuits. (One of many good responses, none the less.)
Yeshuwah Elohim is almighty , all wise , Elohim the all wise does not do unwise things.
Lol
One of my aunts was still in primary school in comunism times and her math teacher asked her this question, her answer still amazes me today.
She said: "-Yes, He can! He already did! It's your heart! ".
Also I have to mentioned that in that era school was 6/7 days on every week. And every sunday the children were expected to go with the whole class to the village cultural house to watch propanga movies.
Every monday morning, during school days, started with a school gathering, forming a big circle, where those who weren't at the movies were put in the middle and the principal and the teachers put the other kids to laugh at them.
Today's bullying basically.
I am horrified there are people that fancy totalitarism regimmes.
Yup atheism totalitarianism of laughing at Christians is on the rise!
It would have been better if your aunt had remained silent. “Yes, it is your heart.” Lmao 🤣🤣🤣
That aunt's name? Albert Einstein
@@j8000 nope, her name is Lydia. I heard the story from her father, my great uncle, he was very proud of his children. But I get your skeptisim, I didn't made it up, communism in east europe isolated us from every other non-communist countries so I doubt She even Heard of Einstein during that time, especially in primary school, we begin to learn science only from middle school. And it's divided in 3 subjects: biology(5th grade+), physics(6th grade+), chemestry(7th grade+).
@@samuelardelean7037 and then everyone clapped
There's a lot that God cannot. He cannot accept sin. Cannot lie. To be good He has to hate the bad. He sticks to His own rules. And that makes Him trustworthy forever!
This question is frequently asked by skeptics of God, the Bible, Christianity, etc. If God can create a rock that He cannot lift, then God is not omnipotent. If God cannot create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it, then God is not omnipotent. According to this argument, omnipotence is self-contradictory. Therefore, God cannot be omnipotent. So, the question, could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it? The quick answer is "No." But the explanation is far more important to understand than the answer...
This question is based on a popular misunderstanding about the definitions of words like "almighty" or "omnipotent." These terms do not mean that God can do anything. Rather, they describe the amount of God’s power. Power is the ability to effect change - to make something happen. God (being unlimited) has unlimited power, and the Bible affirms this (Job 11:7-11, 37:23; 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 4:8; etc.). Therefore, God can do whatever is possible to be done. God cannot, however, do that which is actually impossible. This is because true impossibility is not based on the amount of power one has, it is based on what is really possible. The truly impossible is not made possible by adding more power. Therefore, unless context indicates otherwise (e.g. Matthew 19:26 where man’s ability is being shown in contrast to God’s), impossibility means the same thing whether or not God is involved.
So, the first part of the question is based on a false idea - that God being almighty means that He can do anything. In fact, the Bible itself lists things God cannot do - like lie or deny Himself (Hebrews 6:18; 2 Timothy 2:13; Titus 1:2). The reason He cannot do these things is because of His nature and the nature of reality itself. God cannot do what is not actually possible to be done, like creating a two-sided triangle, or a married bachelor. Just because words can be strung together this way does not make the impossible possible - these things are contradictions, they are truly impossible in reality. Now, what about this rock? A rock would have to be infinitely large to defeat an infinite amount of lifting power. But an infinite rock is a contradiction since material objects cannot be infinite. Only God is infinite. There cannot be two infinites. So the question is actually asking if God can make a contradiction - which He cannot.
Great response. Thanks for sharing!
This made me rethink my life 😕
Isaiah 45
God Calls Cyrus
1Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight {08675;03474:08686}: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
4For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
8Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
The Lord will Save
(Zechariah 9:14-17)
14Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, [saying], Surely God [is] in thee; and [there is] none else, [there is] no God.
15Verily thou [art] a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.
17[But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.
19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
20Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye [that are] escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god [that] cannot save.
21Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.
22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.
23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Exactly it’s like asking God if He can make the master sword or a burrito so hot He cannot eat it one is possible the other one isn’t
Also tends to come down to what God will or will not do, because this whole argument tends to spiral off into something else like "If God exist why bad thing happen?" or "if God exists why wont he give me things I want," lol.
Brilliant, however, I had the occasion to answer a very similar question, "Can God create a rock too big to lift, and then lift it?" It should be noted that the person I was talking to was not asking me this question, but that while in Lutheran catechism class he asked one of the brothers that question, whereupon he was angrily thrust from the classroom. The teacher should have said, "I don't know," or "God doesn't do stupid things." We came at a point when he was telling me why he became a Wiccan when he finished and waited for my response. I went right to the question he asked, and this had to be the Holy Spirit. I told him there were actually 2 answers to that question, first God doesn't do stupid things. (I wanted to cover the logic part first). Then I said that God has already created the rock too big to lift. God created us so we could have fellowship with Him and He with us. He told Adam there was one tree he was not to eat from and that the day he did eat from it he would die. Satan tempted Eve, she ate of that tree and gave Adam and he also ate. From that moment mankind was spiritually cut off from God. That's the definition of death. To pay the penalty for that sin you would need a perfect human, but Adam blew that one right out of the gate. There could be no perfect humans. Only God isn't human and He doesn't die. Here we have the rock that is too big to lift. But then God did something unexpected, He became man or as John 1:14 says he "dwelt" or "tabernacled" among us. This God/man, Jesus lived as we did, and began preaching when He was 30, performed all manner of miracles, and then He laid down His life for us. He died, the only perfect human ever, so that He could take our sin and give us forgiveness, even His righteousness. For 3 days Jesus lay in a borrowed tomb, but on the 3rd day He was raised back to life again. And that is when God lifted the rock that was too big for Him to lift. The guy (an inmate) excused himself and went back to his cell. I saw him a couple of weeks later with a big Bible under his arm. I asked him what happened. He asked me if I remembered our conversation. I told him I did. He said, "When you were speaking a white light was shining out of your face. That's why I excused myself. I was afraid if I didn't go and sit down I might fall down." So, I like your logical approach, but I'm still going to be more impressed with God's answer. Blessings on you brother.
Of all the apologists I've seen, you're the first to start with Scripture instead of logic. Your exchange with the inmate is a tremendous blessing!
@@zachhecita Thank you. I wish I could take credit but the Holy Spirit was present in such a powerful way. I wish it was that way all the time, but I'm just a man, and have many failings. Praise God for a merciful Savior in Jesus Christ. Again, thank you for your kind words and encouragement.
Damn! Loving this. God bless you Sir
@@loisirsentertainment5919 May God make Himself real to you as well
Jesus goddamn god, that was an EXTREMELY long-winded “my christianity makes be better than everyone else’s” speech. Mind getting to the fucking point?
OMGosh, Tim, I am LOVING your videos!!! Please keep them coming!
Glad you like them! More to come.
No such thing as a married bachelor? My buddy Steve Bachelor and his wife would disagree. CHECKMATE, THEISTS.
Just kidding, great video, sir.
So when he wasn’t married, he was a Bachelor Bachelor? 🤔
This comment wins.
Creeping Death Technically, yes! And if her name was Bachelor before she was married, she would have been a Bachelorette Bachelor!
Touche good sir 😂
Lol, love it!!
I love that you put in the other side of the argument as well: if omnipotent means can do anything (even illogical things) then by definition that means God could do the illogical as well and no amount of reason undoes it. This is the atheist argument that forgot they divided by zero.
He also said _"God can't lie."_ that is an ability that is NOT illogical to have. Yet God cannot due.
So how do you explain that?
And if you say God simply chooses NOT to. Then the logical next question will be _"How do you know this?"_ and you'll have to answer that without getting caught in a circular reasoning.
Username the idea of God telling a lie is possible. To say He can’t is a reference to His character not his omnipotence . Like the best athlete could choose to fake a loss, but an honest one would not choose to. Can you explain any conscious being that could not have the ability to lie? Weakest or strongest, doesn’t matter. Omnipotent or just barely conscious the ability threshold is the same. If you want to hear more on the reasons of believing the other characteristics of God (I.e. honest, just, etc...) it will take the discussion beyond this inductive discussion.
@@xianartmanI find it funny that that you gave the exact answer, I spoke about. Without addressing the problem of circular reasoning that I said that answer creates.
That makes no sense. Creating a rock so heavy that the creator themself can't lift it is not, in and of itself, illogical. It's the omnipotence aspect of the creator that causes a contradiction, not the act itself.
What a shame for you that the Bible divides by zero in Luke 1:37. And Matthew 19:26. There are no exceptions made for logical contradictions, god can flat out divide by zero. We atheists just point that out to you guys and laugh as you try to squirm out of it.
Excellent elucidation of the construct of the absurd. A construct of "illogical contradictions:" Excellent disclosure, thanks.
Except that it is not. A square circle might be an impossible object to puny human minds, but an unliftable object is not. It is very conceivable and not in any way self contradictory. The “contradiction” comes when you assume omnipotence and fail to test it. It is omnipotence that is self-contradictory and impossible not the stone.
Can god destroy itself? Can god forget? Can god do evil? The list goes on forever. Clearly it is the omni attributes that creates logical loops and traps from which there are no escape.
@@mockupguy3577 yeah I know...but this is a decent response from a Christian....The more important thing they could do is actually demonstrate that their god exists.....then we wouldn't even need to deal with these kinds of questions
@Fisher Man "design" in "creation"..
..you've made two unprovable claims in one sentence 🤦♂️
"A bridge needs a builder". The only problem with that statement, I have never seen a bridge builder speaking his bridge into existence.
@Fisher Man well I'm familiar with the biblical account....so I'm aware that if your god exists and I go against his word...then I'll spend an eternity being tortured and burned.....please understand that if I really believed that I wouldn't deny it, nobody would. Honestly accusing atheists of really being believers is one of the more dumb things theists say.
Losing my mind at "God can make a bachelor into a married man" LOL
Wow🤨
@@lindavidler433 wow what?
Amen
It's like saying "I am a total liar and everything I say is a lie" it's a contradiction in itself. The aithiest argument is ridiculous.
Thanks Tim for putting these together! Love them.
Thanks Jon!
My answer to that question has always been, "Yes. He created many boulders which, after incarnating as Jesus, he could not lift while existing with the limits of a flesh-and-blood body. Of course, asking if an immaterial being can 'lift' something is just nonsense."
Exactly
Good answer :)
Yes, John 4:24;(24) God is a Spir'-it: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
In addition to this being a Nonsense Question ("Can the omnipotent God be impotent?"), this is also an example of the Complex Question Fallacy. A popular example of the Complex Question Fallacy is, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" In essence, the questioner is asking 2 questions at once and demanding the same answer for both questions - a rhetorical trick (don't be bamboozled). When confronted with the Complex Question Fallacy one should ask the questioner to "divide the question". If he refuses to do so (as many internet atheists will do), you should do it for him as in, "Q1. Have you ever beaten your wife?" (A1. no) and "Q2. If you have beaten your wife, have you stopped beating her yet?" (A2. not applicable).
In the case of this Complex Question Fallacy, the question should be divided like this, "Q1. Can God create a rock of any weight?" (A1. yes) and "Q2. Can God lift any rock he can create?" (A2. yes)., or in the negative sense of the original question, "Q2. Can God fail to lift any rock he can create? (A2. no). "Problem" solved.
Don't be bamboozled by atheist Bravo Sierra.
An atheist once asked me a complex question, (in the form of the fallacy of course). I pointed it out and if I'm not mistaken, the atheist asked a question and made a statement:
#1:) Why are you so concerned with words?
#2:) It wasn't a complex question fallacy.
Indeed I didn't know the technical term thought I kept pointing out on a different video. That the question asks an omnipotent being to be weak. But wasn't able to get traction.
If your god wasn't built on nonsense maybe you would get better questions.
It's not a fallacy to ask why you ascribe impossible attributes to your deity then conveniently dodge questions that show your deity is not so. You take a fairly legitimate question about the *limit* of your imaginary friend's powers (which you already state are limitless), and equate that to a malformed question. If your deity isn't capable of overcoming the law of noncontradiction, this demonstrates the nature of your dishonesty.
@@DruPetty42 How about a simple question.
What's your deity's address?
or
Who are your deity's parents?
Can you answer without dodging or evoking fallacy? Of course not. You are done here.
I’ve heard of the logical absurdity thing about square circles and married bachelors, but I never realized it applies to this classic dilemma! When you said that it’s trying to make God omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time I think my brain exploded!!! Thank you!
Clear and concise as always, Tim!
Thanks! We're doing our best.
I'm really surprised that anyone would use this argument nowadays. Baffling
Lol oh brother you should see some of the tortured logic coming from atheists now days.
And you'd think that one of Dawkins greatest argument against God wouldn't be the question "And who created God?"
@@yndsu The "Who created God" argument is just... not a good argument. At best, the person that created God is God... At worst you get an infinite regress
Yes it is strange. I’m baffled that no theologians has presented an acceptable answer yet.
EDIT: I’m getting too many upset replies. I just turned the initial post around for fun, I stand by it, but please don’t consider it a serious argument because there is none, it’s just a statement. This is not a serious debate. This is just fun and rhetorics.
@@mockupguy3577 You should watch the video. Personal incredulity is not a serious objection.
The first half, I've used in responses. The second half is brilliant. Love it. The idea that you can say "if you insist that illogic can be an answer then the answer is yes, God can do that. And if you don't like it, remember that you're the one that insisted we can be illogical." LOL!!
These videos are AWESOME!!
God bless you beloved brother in Christ.
Thanks. God bless!
Man I'm glad you're on our side lol. It's like Thor joining the Avengers. Except there ain't no god of thunder. God bless you dude.
😁
I'm showing my wife this comment. Thor is her favourite Avenger.
Yep, the side of irrational thought and delusional beliefs.
@@jmaniak1 I don't think you've watched any of his videos...
more like thors alter ego, the crippled doctor,
but he is mentally handycapped
I have actually answered this question before. And the answer is “Yes He can!” Not only that, but He can lift it AND lift it at the same time.
Let me tell you how: God created the earth, Jesus is God in earth. Jesus can not lift a 300 ton stone, God the father can. Therefore, God made a stone He can lift and not lift at the same time. 😁👍🏼
when Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan, it is taught "worship of the trinity was made manifest". in other words, Jesus officially became God when He was baptized. God the Father saw Him and said "This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased" and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him and that is when He started being able to walk on water and stuff. Before Jesus was baptized, He probably could not lift 300 tons
@@killmeister2271 So the angels, shepherds, and magi were worshipping a mere man? Jesus was always God in the flesh, even as a baby. How can someone "become God"? Either they are God or they aren't. Becoming a God would require that person to be a created being and have a beginning. God does not have a beginning. He entered our reality as Jesus. Jesus was always God but now he had a human body.
“And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.”
Luke 1:35 NKJV
@@Strongtower That was my mistake. Jesus was given confirmation that everything He was doing according to His freewill was righteous.
@killmeister2271 How dare you use an Orthodox chant and warp its meaning to fit your own heretical beliefs. “Worship of the Trinity was made manifest” means that God fully revealed himself as triune, three persons. The baptism of Christ renews our human nature, it did not make Jesus God. Jesus was already God at His birth.
@@goose4777 before you posted this i had already acknowledged my mistake and corrected it to the best of my knowledge. call me a heretic if you want, but the lack of knowledge is not accursed in my mistake
Every time I hear this, I always say God can create a rock of any size and still move it.
God is all powerful and can’t fail.
This is my number one answer from now on
so he can make an infinity sized rock?
@@tonybuk70 That’s an absurdity.
@@JerrysJets maybe, but if he can't do it then hes not ALL powerful is he?
@@tonybuk70 Well, He can kill Himself and bring Himself back to life. That’s a bit more impressive than making a dumb rock.
Love this channel ❤ thank you for clarifying the absurd in an otherwise seemingly logical absurdity.
Answer: He did make such a stone and then He rolled it away from His very own tomb that He borrowed.
TIP
Keep in mind, you don't always have to answer someone's question on the spot. Its OK to ask for time to think ab out it and get back to them later. The reason for this is that some questions are loaded and can be disingenuous, confusing deceptive (and by wanting to answer it immediately you may be falling into a trap. Another reminder: it is also Ok to ask a person why they are asking the question. Sometimes its to see how you'll respond or react.
Fantastic job Mr. B! Great lesson in logic. And if atheists don’t understand logic, hopefully they understand eyebrows! Great eyebrows, dude!
Glad you like them! LOL.
Please don't stop making these videos, it's such a good resource to concisely dismantle these frequent and absurd arguments. Great work!
Can’t stop. Won’t stop!
I first heard this question when I became a Christian in 1973. I was living in Venice Beach California, and I was just a dumb kid that had barely graduated high school. We'd go down to the boardwalk and hand out tracts and witness to people. We got a lot of angry reactions because people went to Venice for hedonism, not for Jesus. Anyway, almost every time I went down there, somebody would hit me with that question. So I went home and prayed about it, and here's the answer I got from the Lord.
Them, "Can God make a rock so big he can't lift it?"
Me, "He did. Before you were born and anybody ever came up with that question, Jesus was called the Rock. He was so big he couldn't be higher than he was, but when he died on the cross and rose again, God exalted him higher than he was before."
And guess what? Nobody ever asked me that question again, because it was just demons in those people trying to trip up a young believer.
Later I learned the logical answer, i.e., God can do everything that's possible to do. But I still prefer the answer I got from the Lord. 😊
I guess I’m weird because I fall in the camp of, “God CAN do anything.” God is beyond our own understanding, and in theory isn’t bound by our universe’s limitations. He created space-time, so who’s to say he can’t do within and outside of it? That would include logical fallacies, because all he has to do is change logic. So either way, I think the “yes” or “no” answers the question.
To be fair, this is the first time I’ve heard this explanation, so I appreciate the learning experience!
In that sense, yes, God can do literally anything even if impossible, but those actions will forever be outside mortal comprehension and it would be foolish to use it as an argument. For anything.
@@rafaelbalsan4512 for a human argument, i completely agree. But that is my whole point. God is above and beyond all things, so is it bad to entertain the idea he operates outside of human understanding?
@@koholint3567 Oh no I didn't mean to say it is bad. I too subscribe to that notion. I'm just saying that with this view (which is my view aswell) there isn't really any arguing to be done, since it is beyond our understanding, it becomes a matter of belief. Which is also why I think people who argue whether God exists or not (both atheists and theists) are doomed to come to the conclusion that either of them don't know for sure, and that it is, after all, a matter of belief.
@@rafaelbalsan4512 glad we can agree! this does rule out any logic argument obviously, but i was curious if it was a common belief. I suppose it's a bad argument to bring up the paradox in the first place in either situation LOL
The argument doesn't show the limits God's power, rather the limits of man's reasoning.
Nonsense God is bound by the laws of logic just like everything else dear. For example ...
The law of excluded middle most certainly applies to God for God CANNOT both "exist"and "not exist" at the same time. He MUST either exist or not which means the negation CANNOT also be true or vice versa.
Thus the laws of logic would be the very foundation of your God's existence he is bound by them and must have always been so.
@trumpbellend6717 To argue "God is bound by logic." You have to beleive there is an "outside of logic." If you discard logic you discard truth & reality. God can't exist & not exist at the same time, because none existence is not a quality anything can have. This is a 1 sided coin situation. You cannot present a case to argue non-existence exists, or that unreason is reason, that's why this issue represents the limitations of the human mind.
@@elijahrunyon3347 To argue "God is not bound by logic" you have to logically reason there is an "outside of logical reasoning" only if logical reasoning could be discarded could God exist and not exist at the same time. But because none existence is not a quality that something can logically have, this is a one sided coin situation. You cannot logically reason a case to argue logical reasoning doesn't exist so that existence is nonexistence. As that would be logically incoherent and that is why the laws of logic represent the limit of even a god.
@trumpbellend6717 Woah, you're right! Illogical realities are real! I'm a taco, I live on the moon, & and you're not a troll.
@@elijahrunyon3347 lol oh NO......what wit, I am totally crestfallen. 🤣😅🤣 How could anyone survive such a devastating repost I wont sleep a wink tonight 😴 Did you come up with that all by yourself or did you have to phone a friend? 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hows this for a logical question about god...
Can you give me one objectively verifiable fact that is positively indicative of or exclusively concordant with a supernatural, anthropomorphic, magical, immortal god that doesn't consist of a logical fallacy or the complete disregard for the logical absolutes?
Ummmm no this is not a logical question. Anthropomorphic is when we apply human like tendency to objects or animals. An immortal God is not that so this doesn't even make sense.
@@richybambam1995 doesn't the Bible say we are literally made in his image? That's anthropomorphism.
I got this question as a young man from a friend. I prayed about it and talked to a brother and gave him the answer. I’ll never forget it!
I first heard that question spoken by comedian George Carlin ages ago. Thanks for an excellent response.
And George Carlin comes as top of the pack when it comes to atheism and atheists ideas. What a pity.
@@kokoeteantigha389 I agree because he was brilliant but lost.
I've always answered the question in a more reductio ad absurdum, way, but this is one is better and doesn't require a person remember 8 and 9th grade math.
God could create a rock that cannot be lifted. All He has to do is say that it cannot be lifted. God cannot break His own word or contradict Himself. It would have nothing to do with size or weight. He could create an immovable pebble.
He contradicts himself a lot of times in the good book. He couldn't even remember his last words on the cross. Or how many women visited his grave.
Anyway, who would trust a carpenter who cannot even remove a couple of nails?
I just commented the same response in different words...
Assuming an omnipotent deity, said deity could create a stone of any mass/size/weight and impose a restriction against lifting it. A self-imposed moratorium against an act does not contradict omnipotence.
After I have pointed out the contradiction inherent in the question, I then usually point out that "Could not" is ambiguously used: God might make a rock and then choose not to move it as a result of a self-imposed rule. Great minds...
@@peteralleyman1945 Answering you in the reverse order of your arguments: Cannot and will not are two different things. The Bible explicitly states that Jesus could have summoned "12 legions" of angels for his defense (this would have been on the order of 12000 - 15000 angels). The entire point of the crucifixion was that Jesus willing laid down his life. So your objection is a straw man at best: you are arguing against a claim that no Christian makes (that Jesus could not escape the crucifixion).
None of the gospels state how many women were present. Some of the women are named; none of the gospels state "And no others." So there is no contradiction. Each of the gospel accounts gives a different person's recollection of what Jesus said on the cross, and thus there is some variation. Since John is known to have been present at the cross, and since it was a pivotal moment in his life, we can trust his recollection ("Tetelestai" Τετέλεσται ).
@@WhereWhatHuh
John did certainly not write the 4th gospel. The writers are all unknown and John was written in the 2nd century.
All of the gospels differ in the names of the women, the number of angels presentand whether the stone was rolled away or not.
And like most religous people, your sense of humor has vanished like your capability to distinguish fiction from fantasy has gone.
I just found this channel and I’m liking the vibes of the old videos more
Another question that is answered by viewing god as a computer programmer.
So lets say a programmer writes a line of code to create a rock in a world he also created.
Now he is capable of rewriting the stone's code and controlling every aspect of it. but because he exists outside the computer by all definitions of the word "lift", he can not physically lifting the stone.
Hence he is all powerful because his interaction with the universe is by a means outside of our understanding.
It’s only a logical absurdity because of the quality omnipotence. You’re admitting to the problem the question points out.
It's like saying "God is not omnipotent because He cannot create a square circle"
Edit: superb channel
Thanks, Paul!
The square circle thing is just dumb. Let's paraphrase the original question "If God made an Apple so heavy he couldn't lift it, could he lift an Orange?" Apples, Oranges, Squares, Circles,.... not the same as an immovable object, and an irrestible force. The point of the conumdrum is to prove omnipotence is illogical. Therefore you must cease using logic to try and prove God. Just admit it's faith, and not reason, and move on. Does God really need to exist for real, for Christians to be nice people?
@Dregoth what you imply is "God of the gaps" argument
@Dregoth A rock that resists omnipotence is a logical contradiction, just as the question "What happens if an iresistable force meets an immovable object?" is an improper (i.e. illogical) question. It assumes two mutually contradictory things. It's like saying, "If Richard is King, and William is King, who is King?" Do you understand that the question itself has no meaning?
Surely you will acknowledge that your ability to ask nonsense questions does not change the attributes of God?
@@TandemSix Except that Red Pen Logic did not make a "GOTG" argument, and neither did anyone else. coughREDHERRINGcough.
This question actually is very illogical and not only that, it's also very misleading and tricky😄
It's like asking
"Are you tall ENOUGH to reach the bottom of your heel?" Or
"Is the sun hot enough to freeze the water into ice?"
It requires someone/something the quality that it doesn't have to have to be what they are
We should be careful about what the word "cannot" means
Because it means that someone doesn't have enough of something to meet certain requirement.
Like, "I CANNOT solve this puzzle" means that "I don't have enough INTELLIGENCE or RESOURSEFULLNESS to solve this puzzle, because that's the quality the task requires
Or "I cannot lift this dumbbel" means that
"I don't have ENOUGH STRENGTH to lift this dumbbel" because strength is the quality that the given task requires.
Finally
"God cannot create a square circle" suggests that God doesn't have enough of non-SENSE.
But the truth is God doesn't have non-SENSE at all
And nonSENSE is not the quality of OMNIPOTENCE
Brilliantly explained. The way we define omnipotence is important. It's really simple and often over-looked.
Perfect, perfect, perfect! I always figured this question was childish and now I know exactly how. Thank you. Glory to God!
You are so welcome!
"Can God create a stone that cannot be lifted?"
Why don't they ask God? He is powerful enough to answer that question.
Jesus was fully God and he got tied carrying a cross, the very cross he would be nailed to for your sins and the worlds because of his love for you.
Why moch a God who did this for you.
@@BuffGamer88 “Though he was in the form of God, he did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant” (Philippians 2:6-7) This verse shows that we cannot understand the concept but although He was in the form of God, He gave Himself some limitations. Jesus needed to sleep, eat, rest etc, I'm guessing because if He didn't, He wouldn't have been fully human and therefore wouldn't have died and His sacrifice wouldn't have meant as much/ anything.
@@BuffGamer88 What I mean is, that the question "Can God create a stone that cannot be lifted?" is a useless question. Sometimes we have to give an answer that looks as foolish as the question posed. Solomon says: "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."
Spoiler alert: He doesn't answer ever. LOL!
Cool, can you hook us up for an interview? There are quite a lot of people who would like to hear and see him in person finally.
I always like thinking of God as an Author ("He is the the Author and Perfecter of our faith," as some versions interpret Hebrews 12:2). When a coworker asked me to solve this "paradox," I immediately wrote on a piece of paper "a rock that cannot be lifted," and immediately lifted it into the air. I then pointed out that God doesn't operate on our level of reality, and therefore he can do things that no one else can.
"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
Matthew 19:26
Your videos are truly excellent. Make everyone watching the video feel like they have phd in philosophy. Wish you would release the video more often.
I think it is definitely more probable that God can do literally anything including break contradictions. The origin of the universe is a great example also his existence before and after time suggested complete control.
Would have to politely disagree there. There are many things The Most High cannot do, some of those things WE can do... but that's nothing for us to be proud about, really. Logically impossible things, or nonsense things, are fundamentally impossible... unless you use some verbal acrobatics. Like this question: God created the world, God the Son entered the world as a man, therefore God the Son could not lift many rocks that he had made. God the Father could move them, but the Son (whilst on Earth) could not. So I suppose there, you have both the Yes and No answer to the question... but ultimately, it's not being asked for a fun delve into "Jesus on Earth vs Jesus in Heaven" thought. It's being asked to make us believers look foolish. The correct answer (logically) is "Of course not, and..." repeat what Red Pen Logic just said.
God cannot lie. God cannot sin. God cannot sleep (although God the Son did whilst between conception and Resurrection). God cannot break a promise. God cannot fail. God cannot make a square circle. God cannot make a mistake. To suggest any of these or more (for that's not exhaustive) is to suggest an absurdity. Things impossible for us from a logical standpoint are impossible for God too: a square circle is mutually exclusive. Cannot be a circle if it is a square or visa versa. Things impossible due to his nature not allowing a deviation are not limits on his power: and that's where most of these style of trick questions fall. If it is against his nature, he cannot do it, and it would be against his nature as the Almighty to do something that he would have no power over once done.
The bachelor joke actually hit me hard lol
I've been wondering the answer this question for a long time. Thank you for explaining this!
So far i have watched about 8 of your videos and i have to say i am impressed. They are all short enough that anyone can watch them on the go and they address very relevant topics in the God debate as we understand it today, all while keeping it tongue and cheek. I pray that God blesses this channel and your ministry to open the eyes of those who are foolish enough to claim "There is no God!"
pigzcanfly Thanks for the kind words. 🙏
@@RedPenLogic I have a question if you have time. What would it take to become an apologist working for STR? A degree in theology or would there need to be a particular requirement at all?
@@SilenceDogwood. I use Apologetics all the time but I'm not a full time apologist like Mr B or someone like Frank Turek. I usually tell people about my testimony and then if they have questions or concerns then I try my best to clarify them. I honestly think that most of the reason people reject is based upon the lack of understanding of what sin is and why its so important that we not sin. But there is also the scientific debate concerning things like abiogenesis and evolution that I believe makes people believe that they have solid reasons to reject Jesus or any "god" for that matter. For me I can understand as I was agnostic prior to my conversion with my wife. Anyways if you have any tips or want to talk more about it I will make time.
@@SilenceDogwood. yeah no problem at all. If you don't know about this already there is a lot of talk concerning the vast many problems with the theory of abiogenesis. There is a book called "Stairway to Life: An abiogenesis reality check" by PhD biochemist Rob Stadler and PhD molecular biologist Change Tan that has brought light to this topic. There is also the world renowned synthetic organic chemist Dr James Tour who made a 14 part series on it. It's here on TH-cam and the whole series is about 10 hours long of lectures dissecting the evidence provided by the researchers. I recommend checking it out. God bless you brother. 🙏
you get a gold metal in mental backfliping
Already knew the answer, but I very much appreciated how you put your answer and video together. Very nicely done. God bless!
I like one of my former pastor's response to this question, which was, "Dude, put down the bong."
I asked my wife this question and her answer was "if God wanted to". I facepalmed so hard...
The struggle is real. LOL.
@@RedPenLogic Dude your analysis completely broke down on 4:00 mark. God coming into existence without a prior cause(which is logically contradictory to what existence means) then how does Aquinas resolve that one? If you rely on dismissing objections by casting them into some defintions(completely normal by the way), then you have to resolve that contradiction. Existence without prior cause is not defnitionally true, its a contradiction. So how do you show then that a being whose existence is a contradiction exists but that being can't do anything contradictory? Does it mean that a contradiction gave birth to a contradiction-free being? Lets see what you have to say.
@@l0_0l45 God does not come into existence lol. To keep is simple I will explain in simple terms why what you are saying is wrong.
Let's clear some things up, infinite regress is impossible as Hilbert's Hotel has shown. So we know there must be a first cause. Everything that has a beginning has a cause, God did not begin so if God exist God does not have a cause. No contradiction.
No Atheist who has ever been taken seriously has used the argument you have, not because you are smart but because they realize it is a dumb argument and amounts to saying "Who created God?" which has been debunked for a long time. Atheist philosophers acknowledge the existence of a first cause, and originally believed the universe to be eternal and thus the first cause. Science debunked the Atheist, but many still hold onto that belief claiming that the universe "inflates and deflates" which doesn't address the reason why the universe isn't eternal.
@Gen-X Earthling If you think my wife was correct I have nothing to say to you that would help because you accept logical absurdities as possibilities. I advise watching this entire video over and over until you align with correct, rational thinking towards the subject.
@@sadscientisthououinkyouma1867
If God has no first cause then what is his purpose and why create anything then, with this you have shown that in contradicting his statement you end up contradicting God's existence, Now on the very note of your concept of God if he is powerful enough to create an entire universe then he shouldn't need a little nothing primate such as one of us making excuses for him, his teaching only breed hatred
Luke Ch. 14 vs. 26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
WOW
I wish theses videos existed when I was a anti theist
We're also building a time machine so . . .
I think you're a liar - "when I was an anti theist". If someone honestly looks at the concepts of deities and attendant religions (beyond deism) and realises that the myriad of conflicting claims and ridiculous arguments made by theists to hold on to their "arguments" is all nonsense, that genie does not go back in the bottle, EVER.
Duncan Bryson ehh I can’t prove to you that I was a anti theist soo whatever
I hope you do undestand that the only way to truly stop being an anti theist or atheist is to actually get a proof of a god existing?
Since otherwise that would mean that you were either mistaken on being the anti theist or mislead somehow. If someone sees the problem with something as big as god, then only actual evidence can and should be able to change the mind of such person.
If you really found such evidence that caused you to shift to being a theist, then why the hell are you keeping it to yourself? If your evidence is indeed desicive, you will eradicate pretty much all atheists immediately.
Sobol14 case for the resurrection by InspiringPhilosophy was what threw over the edge
Good explanation. When I am addressing the question, I usually emphasize the locus of the contradiction within the sentence itself. To avoid a semantic diversion in a conversational setting, I tend to avoid saying phrases to the effect that ‘God can’t do X’ and instead argue that their question is nonsensical due to its intrinsic self-contradictory premises; it is simply nonsensical because it proposes the existence of two mutually exclusive factors: an irresistible force and an unmovable object. An irresistible force by definition means that nothing exists that can resist it, while an unmovable object by definition means that no force is irresistible, as it by definition would resist it.
In response to this question:
If a train carrying 200 tons of cucumbers leaves New Orleans, going northwest at 45 MPH at 7:30 AM and another train carrying 326 tons of shoes leaves St. Louis, going west at 40 MPH at 6:17 AM, how many ohms must the cucumbers generate for “2 + 2” to equal 3?
My favourite thing about this would be that the Trinity also resolves this problem with no effort. God the Father makes a stone that God the Son can't lift while on earth in human form. So yes....also this is still a dumb question.
The critique would then refine their paradox to say the same person of this omnipotent being. The refined version can be defeated as well. But I like the outside of the box answer.
Had the same thought. The LORD is awesome indeed. Its seems atheism isn't an intellectual but a spiritual problem in accordance with what the Bible says in Romans.
Guys, this is crazy...
I was just thinking about this EXACT argument.
I opened my phone...
I got a TH-cam notification about this video.
Wow
Edit:
Here's my own refutation:
1)This argument assumes that there is a dimension of power above God from which this supposed "stone" can exist. But this makes no sense, given that by Definition, God is all powerful! Why? Because He created EVERYTHING. So nothing exists before him and noth can exist ABOVE Him because He caused Everything to exist . You're essentially asking God to NOT be all powerful, which is contrary to his very nature and existence. You might as well say, "If God cannot die or get sick, then He can't do everything, therefore he's not Omnipotent"
2)For this argument to work, God as an immaterial being must be subject to the laws of gravity (for weight of the stone) and laws of motion (to move /life the stone) . Problem is: God is not subject to the laws of nature because by definition He is immaterial, space less and timeless.
And what law of nature or any law for the matter is existence without prior cause that makes it possible for a being which is spaceless and timeless to exist? Its an absurdity. And as Mr. B said contradictions don't exist -> God's existence is a contradiction -> God does not exist.
"immaterial, space less and timeless." Or as we like to call it "Not existing."
@@adrian5967 Logic is a process which we describe. If your God was 'real' we would be able to test them in a lab.
Thanks for this. A friend (who thought he was being clever) asked me this in my early Christian days. I didn't call him out on this being a stupid question because it just seemed so obviously his way of avoiding committing his life to Christ. I went on to become part of a vibrant church community, married a beautiful woman who was way out of my league (see profile pic) and raised a wonderful Son with her (he's a serious committed Christian) until the Lord called her home two years ago. My agnostic friend? He's in his mid 70s, never married, no kids, lives in the same apartment with his cats since the 80s and still believes he's too smart to be a Christ follower. Go figure.
Lol does this absurd reasoning constitute some form of rational argument in your world dear. ?? 😂😂
Thanks for this video! It's so satisfying.
I am somewhat not surprised a Prof at a Uni tweets this BS.
Since they think all the arguments have been refuted because they seem to study strawman versions. Of think that Paley made the best argument for God.
It's a biologist getting involved in philosophy. Bad idea. Like Dawkins. Pretty good biologist, knows next to nothing about phylosophy and theology.
Michael Ruse said it best: "Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion would fail any introductory philosophy or religion course. Proudly he criticizes that whereof he knows nothing.". Don't be fooled by someone being a professor.
@@matteuslucas4223
All irrelevant. An intimate knowledge of the deities and religious practices of ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt don't make the deities any more real. Philosophical arguments can be made to argue any outcome the proponent wishes otherwise why do so many schools of philosophy exist. It
When I grow up, I wanna be be like mr.B! See you in next class! Byyyyeee
LOL!
Regarding the "God discussion", both atheists and believers often forget that under the context of that discussion we are like an amoeba compared to the smartest person. If you don't get that point then we are not talking about God. In fact the gap between us and God is bigger than the gap between us and the amoeba because we can't create an amoeba or people or stars or a universe...
Can an amoeba tell me the best route to get to work in my car? It doesn't know what a car is. It can't ask a question to understand a car is because it doesn't even know what a question is.
Our egos tell us that God is just a really smart person. If an atheist was truly honest they would say "I don't believe in God, but I can't comment on God because under the context of that discussion I'm an amoeba and an amoeba certainly can't comment on me".
Romans 11:34
Who can fathom the mind of the Lord?
3:18 - *Beautiful takedown of illogical reasoning!* You help dismantle one of the most popular arguments against God in a matter of minutes. Keep making videos!😄
Can a question be so stupid that it sounds smart?
FoeHammerTime Depends on what you think a stupid question is. I don’t think stupid questions even exist because stupidity is, as I understand it, the lack of knowledge. So any question that attempts to gain knowledge or understanding, isn’t stupid.
Yes.
@@encounteringjack5699 well it depends on how you define stupidity. I've always thought about it as being- well, stupid. Not unknowledgeable, but instead inadequately mentally equipped to interpret information, or foolish. If you define it that way, then questions can be stupid. The question: can God create a stone that he cannot lift? Is stupid as demonstrated by this video. But of course, it depends on the person's knowledge and experience. If a four year old asked that question it wouldn't be stupid because of the four year olds mental maturity, or lack thereof. However, if a presumably intelligent and highly trained and educated professor who prides himself on critical thinking asks it, then it's definitely stupid. Let me know what you think of my analysis.
@@encounteringjack5699 it would appear that the common definition is:
having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.
That depends on the answer!
Alriiight. Time for some red pen logic 👊🏽.
”With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Jesus, Matthew 19:26
“Oh, but I didn’t mean he could create a rock so heavy that even he can’t lift it, so….” - Also Jesus, omitted
VirtualBilly, Jesus said "I am the door" (John 10:27), so he must have meant that he's a literal wooden door? Are you going to take take that verse literally too? So not a genius response to Matthew 19:26. It's also taking the verse out of context since the context was the rich young ruler and salvation.
1:49 “No amount of power though means you can accomplish something logically impossible.”
I agree!
It’s like when my Christian friends try to tell me that their god created everything out of nothing. I tell them that is logically impossible, but they still get mad. I will shut them down next time by showing your vid. Thanks.
The technical definition of omnipotence taught in school is the "power to do anything logically possible". The problem with this atheist is that he is simply ignorant.
You're probably right. I also think a lot of Christians are ignorant of this as well. We need to start teaching deep theology to the person in the pew.
@@RedPenLogic I agree. Most Christians aren't very well versed in systematic theology, historical theology, and especially biblical theology. Another issue I see is almost everyone is oblivious to the different apologetic methods and the nuances in the typical arguments for and against God. I've actually started to abandon the typical approaches in favor of a different direction (working on it now)
Is it logical to break the laws of nature?
@@mockupguy3577 It seems your metaphysics is showing. If a theif steals money from your drawer are the laws of mathematics broken. The laws of nature are described as mathematical formulas does math cause things to happen or describe how it occurs? I think Hawkins put it what breaths fire into the equations. Also one may not that they are called laws and ask who is the law giver. Can't a lawgiver suspend or modify the laws this being made?
Erm....no....the definition of omnipotent is all powerful, as in unlimited power.
I'm confused. How is ""Can God create a stone that cannot be lifted?" a logical absurdity but ""Can Todd create a stone that cannot be lifted?" isn't? Clearly, for any given Todd, the second question can have a 'yes' or a "no" answer. Clearly, the same can also apply to any given God. In fact, whether the answer is "yes" or "no" would tell us a little about how God's "omnipotence" works.
Your rebuttal amounts to "God is omnipotent, so anything that might contradict that must be logically incoherent" which is logically falacious.
Also: Power is a physical property. If omnipotence is being capable of "anything that raw power can do", that doesn't include speaking the Universe into existence, or any of the alleged miraculous events attributed to him.
I like how you worded that.
Well, the question is assuming God's omnipotence in the first place to arrive at the apparent problem. A way to phrase the same question would be "Can a being be omnipotent and not-omnipotent?" And that's always a NO, not because of some limitation to God, but because "P and not P" is a logical contradiction.
When you apply it to Todd, the problem disappears, because you can phrase the question as "Can a not-omnipotent being be not-omnipotent in this particular instance?", and in this case the answer can be YES or NO.
@@leandronc Except that by assuming omnipotence we can reason in several different ways. You can say that "God can create any rock and god can lift any rock because he there are by definition no limits to His power" at which point, you reason that "god being able to create a rock God can't lift" is a logical contradiction.
On the other hand, you can also claim that God being all powerful means he can create a rock so large that "lifting" becomes an absurd concept, for example, if God creates a rock as big as space, it would be immovable, and as such unliftable.
You can then reason that the claim that "god being unable to create a rock God can't lift" is a logical contradiction."
So either God is both able and unable
to create a rock He can't lift, or there is something incoherent about the concept of omnipotence, which is what the question is pointing to in the first place.
The problem is that "omnipotence" is not a concrete trait, It is a narrative vehicle. It exists to justify that "God" can do the many otherwise implausible things attributed to Him. He can speak the world into being, multiply bread and fishes and be both fully man and fully God. How can an entity do all those disparate things and more? Because it can do anything!
This works within a narrative because it is constrained by the will of the author. Projected on reality and faced with its constraints, however it causes all sorts of problems.
@@cafeeineaddicted8123 What this video misses is the simple fact that the question is asking if God, a being outside the universe (metaphysical) who is absolutely powerful over all creation (omnipotent) can create a physical object within the universe (the rock) that He cannot lift. In other words, "Can God create a physical object that limits Him?" The answer is, of course, no. This is because God, who is omnipotent, created the universe, and by the definition of that action cannot be limited by His own creation. He is not bound by the physical laws He created, so how could He make a rock too large for Himself?
Now, does this mean we found something God cannot do? Yes, just like God cannot lie. Does this mean God is not omnipotent? No, because His omnipotence is always related to His power over creation. God has absolute power over all things He creates. He cannot make a rock too large for Him to lift precisely BECAUSE He is omnipotent. And if we begin to wonder if or argue that omnipotence is anything else, we find that we can't understand the matter well enough to argue it, as we would then be reaching into the metaphysical, which is beyond the universe itself, and thus beyond human comprehension. In other words, we humans can't understand anything beyond the physical, snd cannot even ask this question correctly (we include rocks in the questuon, a created object). By everything we humans know from the world around us and what God has told us, He is omnipotent. His power is limitless.
Ultimately, this question takes an already elemental concept, that God's power is limitless, and tries to break scrutinize it further into more basic particles in an effort to prove it wrong, when the very word does not perfectly convey God's power, since we cannot understand it. In essence, the question is trying to say that we can break down an impossible idea into possible parts, and that is simply impossible.
@@cafeeineaddicted8123 I think omnipotence is definitely a trait, just one that's hard to define without solving some ontological mysteries. Still, I'd say the definition of omnipotence at least includes complete power over the material world. In that case, a "rock that an omnipotent God can't lift" doesn't make sense. If we take the premises 1) A rock is a material thing; and 2) God can lift all material things (this comes from my definition of omnipotence), then a rock that God can't lift is logically absurd.
Even if you think omnipotence is just a narrative tool to justify God's actions, the argument is not trying to prove God's omnipotence, it's assuming His omnipotence and seeing if there's a inherent contradiction there.
So we have someone that doesn't understand the argument. There is a reason why people like WLC do not say that god is allpowerful any more. Even you are putting limits on god's power in the from of your 'rationally coherent'. This also means that your god can not be responsible for rationality as so many theists like to claim.
Matthew 19:26- Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
This means that even the rationally incoherent and the illogical should be possible.
punching myself in the face to knock myself out is not a sign of serious punching power but serious mental impairment.
Always look forward to your videos. Not only are they very informative and thought-provoking but also very pleasing to watch. Mr. B. What software program do you use making your videos?
I haven't been able to figure out how to insert text over my webcam video, nor how to do voiceovers over other images.
I don’t do the editing, but I think my video guy use Final Cut Pro.
This is amazing! Your hilarious and you need to put out more videos more frequently!
I recently addressed this question in a slightly different way.
I was considering the idea of free will and predestination (something I don't actually believe in) and how one can rationalize God being omniscient, but our futures not really being predestined because God knows what will happen.
This made me think of the question presented in the video because both questions are somewhat paradoxical.
That is when I realized that there is actually a logical answer to the question that doesn't require rejecting the question itself as being illogical.
God can create a stone too heavy for God to lift, but only if God chooses to limit his own power. God, being capable of doing anything, can also choose what things he "cannot" do.
I find this also applies to free will and predestination. When God created humanity, it was necessary for him to give us free will. Because having the opportunity to give us free will and choosing not to would be evil, and God cannot do evil. However, I also believe that free will cannot truly exist if every decision you ever make is predetermined. That would mean every decision you make was really decided for you at the creation of the universe because everything that has been done, leading to you making that decision was also predetermined. It would be impossible for you to do anything other than make that decision.
So, I came to the conclusion that the only way God could have truly given us free-will, which was necessary, was by limiting his own power to know everything that would happen prior to it occurring.
So, when someone says "why would God have created Adam and Eve, knowing that they would sin and doom many people to an eternity in hell?" I believe the real answer is that God did not know that would occur. Because he chose not to know what Adam and Eve would do. He would have known it was a possibility, but he did not know it would definitely occur. He put his trust in Adam and Eve to obey his command. So they not only disobeyed him, but they also betrayed his trust.
This makes perfect sense. It is like saying you can't make 1+1 equal anything but 2 without changing the equation.
Finally there’s someone that’s very intelligent and trying to call out atheists.
Really? th-cam.com/video/VItG76Xs4IE/w-d-xo.html
Unfortunately in trying to answer the rock question. He exposed the failing of the Christian definition of an Omnipotent God when he said _"God can't lie"_
1. I can't find a single definition of "omnipotent". That directly or indirectly excludes the ability to lie.
2. How do you know God can't lie? I don't see an answer to that question that won't immediately become circular reasoning.
@@username82765
"God" lied - he told Abraham to kill his son but didn't mean it - that's a lie as far as I'm concerned.
Love your videos but do you ever blink? Lol
Only occasionally. 😂😂😂
This is an excellent explanation. Well done. Unfortunately, I don't think many who disagree will have the capacity to follow understand.
Their pride will be hurt and they disagree for the sake of disagreeing
1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
Woohoo! Good job! Really love this series! More! More!
On it!
Nice redefining words to suit your narrative.
Assuming an omnipotent deity, said deity could create a stone of any mass/size/weight and impose a restriction against lifting it. A self-imposed moratorium against an act does not contradict omnipotence.
As a Christian, I am more comfortable with the second challenge you pose about 3/4 of the way through the video. In that I agree with the sentiment when the the atheist says we should include the logically impossible in our definition of omnipotence (which isn't a problem because God can do the logically impossible according to the definition, thus evaporating the initial challenge).
Why would I rather go that route? Because there's a much harder question out there that uses the same principle as the rock challenge that *actually happened*. "Can an infinite God fit himself completely into a finite form?" The answer is yes because this is what happened with Jesus. Jesus is the totality of an infinite God in a completely finite man. By our assumptions of the natural world, it's an impossibility. If you can fit something infinite into a finite container, it is no longer infinite by definition. And yet we assert that Jesus was *fully* God (meaning this includes the infinitude of His nature) and fully man simultaneously.
Jesus accomplished a real-world logical impossibility simply through Him being born. Meaning that God's omnipotence encompasses the logically impossible. Would love to hear your thoughts on this if you have the time. :)
Saint Anselm of Canterbury also answered questions like this before Aquinas. You can feel his eyes rolling at logical fallacies a thousand years later.
facebook.com/S.Anselmus/posts/10154103091615615
The guy is a frigging U professor, good grief.
Atheism, where rational thought goes to die.
As opposed to theism where rational thought and critical thinking is condemned to give way to blindly following arbitrary edicts from story book characters. But please, go on about how atheists are the ones who lack rational thought and critical thinking skills.
@@hootieman1991
You think believing a bucket of dirt, sunlight and time wrote the complete works of Shakespeare is rational thinking ?
Ok....
@@sparkyy0007 if your implication is that sophistication requires supernatural design and intervention, you’ll lose that argument. Certainly regarding the second component. For the record though, if you can find me one atheist/agnostic/non theist who thinks a “bucket of dirt” wrote the works of Shakespeare, I’ll take everything back. It’s telling though that the best rebuttal you could come up with was a ridiculous strawman. That, in and of itself, should cause you to question whether your stance is in any way credible.
@@hootieman1991
Yes of course, believing that would be insane....yet drilling down, that's exactly what all materialists believe.
They, like you just won't admit it.
No straw man here my friend.
...
@@sparkyy0007 literally no one believes that. The fact you have to claim that shows how ridiculous and weak your argument is.
If God creates a stone, it has to have a definite weight. There's no such thing as an infinite weight rock, that violates the definition of a rock. So whatever weight God assigns to the rock, he can then lift it.
Some folks spend to much time thinking they can outsmart God ,by that attempt they usually come out looking ridiculous...
You are my new fave.
Sweet!
Does god need to come back down and power lift with eddie hall or something, this atheist logic is doing mental gymnastics beyond comprehension.
Power lift with Eddie hall lol, the sheer randomness of this gave me a good laugh.
Nice!
I'm glad you covered that the definition of omnipotence as the ability to do the logically impossible solves the very problem that this question is supposed to pose. But there is also an equivocation fallacy involved. The power to create is a different kind of power than the power to lift something. Could the Father make a rock so big that Jesus could not lift it? Yes, because Jesus was human, with the limitations on physical strength that come with being human.
I'm glad when an atheist asked me this question I replied, "The only thing God cannot do is limit His power(and break promises) he said it doesn't work but I don't think he was expecting an answer to a paradox."