I completely destroyed Mike Winger's arguments th-cam.com/video/8LSI_NplhY4/w-d-xo.html I havent checked out your responses yet, but I look forward to destroying them too
Hmm...started listening to your arguments, but ....tedious. Now, I can't say there is no god, but the totality of evidence and logic certainly shows beyond reasonable doubt that the Christian god is a phoney. And here are some points Not a single supernatural claim from the bible has been proven , even after 2000 years Similar virgin birth, dying & rising gods in other belief systems, most of which are now discredited In may religions a saviour appeared to a tribe telling them they were the only ones who mattered or were special Not a single miracle claimed by believers has been proven by the scientific community No evidence of any knowledge in the bible that would be anomalous for 1st cent AD people to have Bible does not concord with scientific knowledge Biblical predictive capability, esp from 2nd cent AD onwards, sorely lacking Bible's geographic knowledge consistent with that of the Romans and Jews only, suggests purely human origins Archeological evidence of Yahweh being derived from earlier Canaanite pantheon Evidence that the Romans created the Jeesus character to impose a pacifist messiah on the Jews The "god" of the bible uses many human inventions made up to the 1st cent AD Lack of historical/ archaeological corroboration for OT stories (great flood, Moses, exodus, 40yrs in desert, sermon on mount etc) No extrabiblical accounts contemporary to Jeesus Evidence that all of the NT was written well after alleged crucifiction of Jeesus: Pauline epistles in the 50s or later, gospels from the 70s AD or later Evidence that Josephus had a hand in writing the NT, for his Roman masters Numerous wars between Romans and Jews from 167bc to 135ad gives ample motive for Romans to quell Jews with a pacifist messiah Jeesus' behaviour in the NT suggests Greco-Roman culture rather than that of typical messianic Judaism Bible appears to have been set in the past from when it was written, to deliberately convey that predictions had come true to justify the fate befallen upon the defeated Jews, and to teach them a lesson
Hahahaha! I am blown away that we both did it with one second left. I didn't actually know how I did until after recording but that's crazy! But I'll say one thing. @ 4:40 your timer mysteriously stopped counting. I'll have you know that I kept my timer going even when I played a clip from Lawrence Krauss. I'm not saying that means I won BUT I could see how OTHER people would see this as cheating and declare that I won and you lost. I could see that happening.
Most atheists/agnostics that I have talked to usually boil down their beliefs in a few ways 1. The claims the Bible makes about biology does not work worth modern understanding of life. This would then lead to, if one miracle is false, why believe all the miracles of the Bible 2. The role of the church and people. Even if there is a creator god, how do we know if the "laws he wrote" are truely written by God. It's harder to believe that a book was defended by a supernatural deity more than it is that the Bible was written by men who wanted to make it easier to control the population with thought control. 3. Morality, the subjectivity. We can agree if someone is done to save someone else i.e. greater good mentality, they would do "evil" to bring great good. If you stole a gun someone was going to use to kill people, is that a sin? If you wanted to have a murderer executed, would that be murder? Many things can be seen as subjective in this instance These are the main reasons I am an agnostic. Technically athiesm is a belief system. Logically speaking, agnostics have more of a rational view on it. I doubt you would be able to convince me out of it anyways because one of your fundemental beliefs is that the holy Spirit would change my heart. I doubt what you would say be better than a supernatural god member
@@wesleybasener9705 I kinda see where you are coming from. I guess in my mind, because of my fundamentalist background, we kinda saw the more progressive Christians as heretics and woke. Maybe that does come out as a bias.
#10 reminds me of the old joke: The devil comes a-calling at heaven’s gate one day to talk with God. “So you created life?” he says. “Pshaw! That’s easy.” God replies, “So go ahead. Show me.” The devil reaches down to grab a handful of dirt. But God knocks the devil’s hand away. “Nuh-uh.” says He. “Get your own dirt.”
I've read a similar joke except the devil was replaced by a group of scientists trying to prove God was no longer necessary because science had replaced Him. Same punchline, though.
Have you ever noticed one, particular, gross self-inconsistency of these sorts of people, wherein they, on the one hand, go about squawking that they have evidence/proof that God does not exist, while yet, on the other hand, they make a really big noise about telling you that they are not claiming God does not exist, but that they merely "lack belief" that He exists? I mean, does that not go to advertise just how worthless they, themselves, consider their "evidence/proof that God doesn't exist" to be--that they are so eager to disavow belief of the very thing for which they claim they have "evidence"/"proof".
Liked the fallacy counter, but why limit yourself to one fallacy per argument? Most of them committed multiple fallacies. You could easily have run up the score.
@secretshadow about the first question, the point is that just like any fictional character, someone has to tell you about it so you can know about its existence, and if god wants us to worship him, he would make you already know about him, but apparently, you all only found him billions of years after the earth was created, he uses the example about fractions, but he has to remember that fraction isn't living, fraction doesn't want you to know about them, neither is fraction omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. - You mean, like leaving evidence. Maybe a book? Maybe evidence in the book that has truths, before we had the technology to understand them? Maybe evidence that things like evolution are false; proof that life cannot come from non life, Proof that things don't evolve - Dogs don't produce bananas, apples don't produce cats. You mean like that kind of stuff? Ignoring the evidence doesn't mean its not there. about the second question he totally missed the point, the point was that most people believe in what they were taught since they were children, that does not mean all of them were true, because they contradict each other, it's not from where that belief came from, it means that most people (again, not all) will just believe in what they were taught in their upbringings, and it does not work for atheists, because that would only be true if atheists grew up in atheist homes, which is almost always not true. - Correct, but thats not proof that something doesn't exist. My parents didnt teach me how to be a business owner, some parents did. That doesn't mean something you didn't learn at home is or is not true. the third one, he says "god is timeless", something timeless can't exist, because exist is a verb on the present, and something that is timeless isn't in the past, future or present, meaning it cannot fit to any verb, you can't say he "is" something, you can't say he "exists", "creates" or anything else - Time, Space and Matter had to come into existence simultaneously. To say something doesn't exist because you cannot understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. People didn't understand micro organisms, until we had the technology to see them... does not mean they didn't exist. Youre saying you cannot understand something before time, space and matter, therefor it doesn't exist. You are framing an argument to make God not exist. "Its not possible to be timeless, therefor God cannot exist." about the fourth question, he meant the biblical god has to be the first god, because he created humanity, according to his own words, but he isn't, again to what i said, only 4.6 billions years later he was discovered. - No, Read Gen 1. In the beginning God created... There was not billions of years, but merely days. fifth one, and again, god is eternal, as you all claim him to be, so there was some point that god existed and the devil didn't (i know i am contradicting what i said about the third question, because this is all non-sense) and something can't come into existance from nothing, according to you, so god has to have created the devil, plus good reasons? seriously? if he has to create evil for good reasons and he is all loving, he can't be all powerful, because he could have done it in a better way according to his own morals. - If you believe evolution, you believe everything came from nothing. Big Bang. Nothing exploded and created everything. - How can anything exist without its opposite? Can you have love without hate? Can you have life without death? Can you have light without darkness? Again, read genesis. Sin brought evil into the world. the sixth answer is straight up false, the point is that the bible refers to other gods as gods, not as false gods. - "Thou shall have no other god's before me" - People Idolized many things, Sun god, god of rain, fertitilty god... If you notice the word god is not capitalized, meaning they are false gods. The capital G God is THE GOD, lower case g is false gods. This can be anything we put faith in... Evolution is a religion, is god is death. seventh answer, he says immaterial beings are not made of anything, god is spirit, which just contradicts himself, because the point is that there is no evidence for spirits. - There is no evidence in spirits? Ok, How come if someone dies, lets say from suffocation, their body is perfectly intact... why cannot the body live again? Spirit. Mind, Body Soul. No one denies all 3 of these exist. eigth answer is just ignorance, if nothing existed, nothing would be something, because nothing can't exist, something can exist, he clearly showed that he did not understand this, but still answered anyways because hey it's gonna make him look smart - Back to Genesis - God spoke the world into existence... so it wasn't made from 'something.' Evolution offers a similar explanation, nothing exploded and turned into everything. "something doesn't have to be perfectly designed to have an intelligent creator" it does if that creator is perfect, after all, does he know what that word means? then he goes with another weak argument, which just says that god is not all loving, again, contradicting his own god. - No, Back to Genesis again. What God created was perfect. When Sin entered into the world so did suffering and death. Your basically saying if you crashed your new car, then its the manufacturers fault for building it with the damage from you crashing it. tenth answer, it has nothing to do with the idea of a god, but it has to do with the idea of YOUR god. that is the point, your god claim to have created humans, not made them evolve, but of course, people back then didn't know that was a thing - Evolution is clearly false and doesn't need anything to disprove it other than science. Without getting into all the ways evolution is not true, he simply points out that without even disproving evolution, which is simple to do, its still not proof that God doesn't exist. Hope that help! But I doubt you'll take the time to understand it, instead you'll just find more excuses on why you believe what you believe. Best of luck!
This is good. You know I can't believe that I chose to be an atheist at such a young age, but to gradually find myself become spiritual and religious as I attempt to understand myself and the world around me, a strange but powerful process is at play.
@@KronStaro in not wanting to keep making the same mistakes, to have a happier life, I read more to understand my personal problems. In doing so I ended up reading more religious information as the wisdom there was the most profound and clear, still relevant today when we translate and understand on a personal level.
@@Rhymeswithreasonbunbuichi wisdom eh? so which one out of thousands of different religions and sects did you choose? oh thats right Christianity, and what makes you think that its the right one? oh thats right its part of your culture
Used to stem an ancient believe why Monks would shave their heads, was because the "Holiness of God would enter into the top of the head." It's also this believe why women were always supposed to cover their head because they were not allowed to be holy. As well as why the pope always covered his head, because he could not be any more holy otherwise he could be close or even to God. Of course we all know this to be bogus, But that's what used to be taught, years upon years ago within catholicism
For #7, I think it is important to mention that the text was kinda taken out of context though. God (Yahweh) wasn't jealous of the "gods", but he was jealous of his people's affection for the false gods. He was angry that people devoted themselves to another god or that they tried to serve both Him and other idols. In the same way that a girlfriend gets mad that her boyfriend spends all his time playing video games and not with her (to whom he should be devoted). The object of jealousy doesn't have to be an animate being.
Also keep in mind despite the "expert" teaching, "yahweh" is not the name of God but an Egyptian slur against God's name. In case we''d forget, God wrote his name down for us. Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit (Ghost) but never 'yahweh'. I think God knows his own name and can put it in his own book.
I once got a comment stating we had to be told about God therefore God doesn't exist. My response was someone had to come up with the idea to tell others in the first place which proves we don't have to be told about God to believe in God, unless God did the initial telling humans about himself, in which case God definitely exists.
@@inorudreamer the issue it that everyone claims a different God spoke to them. Plus human brains are insane, they can make you see and believe things that arent truly there, especially if you believe so fervently.
Looks like you’ve stumbled across the Cartesian Ontological Argument: 1. I have the idea of a perfect being-i.e., God. 2. Ideas, like other things, have causes-some by other ideas, some by extra-mental realities the ideas are of. 3. But my idea of God cannot have been casued by other ideas of my own. 4. So, my idea of God is caused by the extra-mental reality it is an idea of: that which actually possesses those perfections; i.e., God.
I am taking a critical thinking course right now as part of my undergrad in engineering (it’s an elective) and man it was so cool to see you use all these fallacies I’m learning about. Great video!
@@roman_kofyno "Critical thinking course 😀 That sounds like indoctrination process." He didn't even state his position. For all you know he could be an atheist. Even if he was a Christain, there's no reason to assume that someone is being indoctrinated because they're taking a critical thinking course. Maybe you're the one lacking critical thinking.
I didn't learn about logical fallacies until taking a phospphical elective class for fun in college. I immediately understood its potential and I on my free time dug further to eventually find The Trivium. This should be mandatory training starting in elementary.
LoL..both your video and Mike's popped up on my notifications at the same time..I'm *LOVING* you guys as a team!! Now I'm off to see Mike's =) God bless and keep ALL my Brother's and Sister's out there reading this 💜💜💜
Your rhetoric/jokes/sarcasm/transitions are like production level quality 👌 I feel like I’m watching some kind of educational but comedic documentaries from the 90s/early 2000s. Love it.
I certainly would NOT delete my account due to a refutation by nimrods like Mike Winger. If I were "Brien Doyle" I'd do a bit more study on logical fallacies, study the history of this "debate", refine my argument, and in a few years re-present it. After all, there still will be NO proof of the Christian God's existence...so there's plenty of time.
Thank you, thank you, and a zillion more THANK YOU'S to both you and Mike. Your enthusiasm and willingness to share all of your research and knowledge to help educate us is such a blessing. You are helping to raise up a new generation of apologists in the church. No more excuses for not knowing how to talk to skeptics and plant the seeds of truth (with love and respect). Bless you!
This came out of the blue. I like it. I would certainly watch another one where you team up with someone. We just need to find some more atheists to generate more questions...
help me out, I already found a comment on this video doing just that, read the third reply to the top comment (the pinned comment) its exactly what you're looking for.
@@rodiusmaximus if you don't like the word "literal", then tell me what word to use. I'm talking about factual statements, as opposed to allegorical language
And to think, the person who originally came up with those "questions" was likely feeling good about himself. The naivety of youth-- when all arguments and solutions are just so simple if the "adults" would just listen. Rhetoric is a dying art.
@@lukesalazar9283 I'm speaking academically, really. Rhetoric used to be a required subject for all liberal arts degrees and military schools. If it is taught, much like economics and civics its a pale imitation of what it once was.
It is sad that rethoric on these days is not so popular for being a tool for convencing people of the truth (like the great philosophers did), but a tool for convencing people of false truth (like the sophistics used to do and continue to do). I love rethoric, but not in the way it is used today, for suporting of bad arguments.
Yeah I saw this when I was browsing the comments section and I was like [insert face palm meme] Also, you forgot to mention that if argument #6 works, that would demonstrate polytheism, not atheism.
Sometimes it seems like some atheists are not anti-god, but they are anti-Christian God. Though it is not surprising as Christ kinda told us this would happen 🤷🏼♀️
@@kierstinott1741 I mean, do you know why they still reject Christian God? I don’t agree with the blame and praise the lord of the son gets but would proving Christianity give them more reasons to convert or more reasons to insult non-theists or other opposing theists?
As an agnostic-atheist, these arguments are all absolutely terrible and kind of elementary in terms of argumentation against God. They do seem misrepresented in some cases though, possibly to try to "dumb" down the arguments to make the opposition seem more ridiculous. Kind of bad faith representation.
@@RedPenLogic both you and Mike beat the clock by 0:01 left. Btw you channel is definitely one of my favorites. Keep the uploads coming (oh can you ask others to respond to this challenge as well?) Just an idea.
Yay!! I discovered Mike Winger about 6 months ago, and have been slowly finding more awesome Christian channels. I am so happy to find this one too! I've been on TH-cam since back in 2012, and there just weren't fun, smart Christian channels back then (at least non that I could find). It was all atheist and such, Back then non of the big ministry's were on here, like AIG, and now they are all so active. . I didn't fall away from God, but I did get distracted from God being forefront in my life, and so I haven't even looked into Christain content on here, until God slapped me around a lil to wake me up. And now I see all these rich Christain content. I am so happy. If anyone knows of other great channels I would love to hear :)
These are the most absolute worst examples of what an atheist would say to a Christian to disprove God. How about the old if God is eternal and can do everything can he kill himself? If he kills himself he is not eternal, if can't then he can't do everything it's a paradox. The whole concept of God is flawed and if the Christian god does exist, is that really a god you would want to serve
@@ah-rr1lk a very similar question popped up in his comment section and answered it about if God is all powerful can he create a rock that he can't lift and he answered it you can check it out it's his fourth video. You guys need to quit cause this guy can disprove anything u guys say lmao.
@@dinoblack2978 I listened to his video. All of what he claimed is not in the bible. There are no verses to back up his claim and even if there were verses it doesn't mean the bible is real. He also states that God is logical. I just can't find the logic behind hardening Pharos heart instead of softening it only yo kill the first born babies
@@ah-rr1lk well truly I tell you if you search so deep ull see the truth that is found in the bible (all of it) but considering ur not open minded I hardly doubt ull do anything instead just watch videos about other atheist who found a couple of verses not even reading the full chapter behind it and getting their meanings from it.
If this is not a fine tuned universe, how do we know it's not fined tuned?? As C.S Lewis puts it: If light never existed, we wouldn't know we're living in the dark.
We don't know if the universe is fine tune or not. The only way to know if the universe can have different properties is if we observed another universe but this would then prove the multiverse.
@@tedidk8639 that's missing the point. A universe with different properties would be a vastly different universe, and we dont even know what kind of properties that would be. The only evidence and experiments we can do are based on different universes that function on the same principles but have different values for constants, the value of gravity being one of those constants. We know that if the different constants were off by a fraction of a point, life could not exist. Even if the Cosmological constant, which is 10^10^123, was off by one point, life wouldn't exist. This one point in itself exhibits how finely tuned the universe is.
@@isaacsleeman5937 Your assuming of these constants can change which has yet to be proven. These constants could be explain by some hidden law of nature that we have yet to discover. For example, you mentioned gravity as a force which it is a force in Newton's theory but in Einstein's theory of relativity gravity is a byproduct of mass and energy, the bending of space-time. It's not a force nor a constant. Who's to say the other constants cant be explain away?
This channel is so underrated. I love the way you explain things to make it easy to understand for a non-english speaker like me. Kinda remind me of Jon (Whaddo You Meme). 👍
5:23: *This is an equivocation of the word nothing.* An equivocation fallacy generally occurs when a word is used in different ways within the same argument. I don’t see that here: the argument’s use of _nothing_ doesn’t seem inconsistent. Rather, I think this would be a reification fallacy, treating _nothing_ as if it had ontological status.
Just saw Mike Winger’s video and got the link to this. I think this one was actually much stronger especially using the names of the fallacies employed in the points the atheist tried to promote. Subbed!
@@goldenalt3166 You wrote: "You don't need any arguments against God, he never puts up a fight." Thank you for your succinct admission, here, that you have no argument(s) against God. Why would God need to "put up a fight" to any argument(s) when no argument(s) are against Him?
@@djengo77 I have no argument against Santa Claus or Bigfoot either. It is sufficient to demonstrate that the proponents arguments are flawed. In the case of "God", we don't even have a definition.
It’s good to both ask questions as well as to be questioned. As iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens [and influences] another [through discussion].(amplified). This has been a great opportunity to strengthen and develop the foundational roots of our beliefs. Thank you for the content!
I can’t stop laughing at your animated eyes. You are so entertaining 🤣 🤣 🤣 . I also like your logical arguments although I have to look away from the screen 😂🤣 🤣
Man I am in love with your videos ATM. I like the way you present things so much more concisely than any apologist I've seen. And still always have a seriously positive interaction in every way. And the spirit in this brothers eyes. It's great. I have the mind and some of the college but I am clearly not cut from the same cloth as you for this. I wish I could do this as you do.
yeah. they lie for a living about magic. The love is real :- ) Or g0d lies. It is one or the other. Because the evidence shows that genesis (and many other episodes in the b00k) are WRONG. it is a b00k of lies. Or it is a b00k of truth and g0d manipulates the evidence, giving us all the bible debunking branches of science.
My brother showed me your TH-cam channel and love it! I go to a Bible and Theology school called Criswell College in downtown Dallas. Keep it up brotha! In Christ by the Spirit, Patrick
You know what a Theology degree gets you in the real world? Maybe, just maybe a managerial position at a MacDonald's franchise. According to studies by the Alban Institute and Fuller Seminary, 50 percent of ministers drop out of ministry within the first five years and many never to go back to church again (Meek et al., 2003,p. 340). Meek, K., McMinn, M., Brower, C., Burnett, T., McRay, B., Ramey, M., et al. (2003, Winter). Maintaining personal resiliency: Lessons learned from evangelical protestant clergy. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 31.4(9), 339-47.) A Duke University study found that 85% of seminary graduates entering the ministry leave within five years and 90% of all pastors will not stay to retirement. And let’s not forget, someone has to graduate last from seminary, would that person be you? *You will have no basis to argue the case for Christ with anyone when an attrition rate like the above is the historical norm.*
Thank you for always making great content. Channels like yours have strengthened my faith in Christ. It is so good to see Christ's body working together through TH-cam. What a great platform to share truth! Thank you!
Point 10 completely presumes the conclusion. How absurd. Yeah, um, my side is right, so I don't need to prove it at all. Well that's definitely NOT how arguments work. How absurd.
That's the lacktheist go-to dismissal of theism. Atheist: "Convince me my presuppositions are wrong!" Theist: "Ok, let's talk about your presuppositions..." Atheist: "Presup is such a joke! I have no presuppositions!" Like you said, an absurdly bad joke...
I think atheists insert God into the place of Naturalism/Determinism. He skips 'begging the question' but does make a premise about evolution that is a non-sequitur. Evolution is a natural process that explains adaptations in creatures but it doesn't explain the creation of biological life or the Cambrian explosion. It is also shown that an unguided process hasn't had the time to create complex life.
@@LoavesofBread Plus, though Darwin did believe all known gods to be false, he himself inevitably came to the conclusion that a god had to exist. Modern atheistic evolutionists might say that that was classical Darwinism, not today’s evolution. But regardless of whichever evolution process we refer to, the principle remains. It needs a God to work. I mean, that’s the case no matter what Darwin says, but I think getting evidence from the founder doesn’t kill.
I agree. That was terrible there is literally no proof that evolution is a thing or even how the process work. Fossils show that creatures were already complete, no one has seen anything evolve into a new creature, and the evolutionary timetables seem to get smaller and smaller.
@@shawnboahene5231 How little you know about evolution is apparent in your reply. But that is not a surprise as most Christians suspend critical thinking when becoming a Christian... and yes I was also brainwashed into believing like a child also. I suggest looking up Aron Ra as he explains evolution succinctly with Christians and others who've had a religious lobotomy in mind.
@@tylerkasuboski3366 That's true if you get to come up with a self serving definition of 'legit' and we have our arms twisted to go along with it. That's a bully move.
I'm an Atheist here, but honestly this is so disappointing to see. And the fact that there are those in the atheist community that try arguments like these to disprove god is so pathetic. I also hate the complex of Science vs God. Historically most notable scientists over 100 years ago were men and women of faith and yet still were able to hold true to their beliefs. Theists, and Atheists do this constantly and it's really so dumb. Science doesn't disprove god, and the bible doesn't disprove science. But really great responses, thanks for nipping these in the bud. Earned a sub for sure!
Typical, people like 'Brien Doyle' have no integrity. When disproven they slink back into the hole they crawled out of. If these kinds of people want to be taken seriously, they should just study the arguments and refutations further and present their points again; otherwise acknowledge the truth.
2:19 One of the big problems with his argument is that some people go from one religion to another religion. Even in Muslim countries, some people go from Muslim to Christian. In Christian-majority countries, white people might go from Christian to another religion. In many countries, there are also _religious minorities_ that are not part of the majority religion.
Just found out about your channel, and I am really glad I did 😁 You did an excellent job refuting these fallacies 👏👏👏 I'm not a big fan of winger but I won't hold that against you 😉
Lemme just point out - You and @mikewinger are my very best teachers and apologists, your ministries are affecting and influencing people world wide - especially here in Kenya 💪🏾 Thank you for always giving us hope and thought on our Faith. Can't wait to do more practice, Bible study, prayer and interactions with people on an apologetic platform. Shalom 💪🏾🙏
Hahahaha! Oh my goodness! You totally said what I’ve been thinking since I’ve found your channel. I have followed Mike for a while now, but his videos are just so long! 😂 He does great work! However I do appreciate your style.
Wow! Halleluiah! God bless you both Mike and Red Pen Logic guy! Your just making my faith stronger as a Christian! I feel pity for those dudes that doesnt believe with the Almighty Creator.
Saw Mike's first and then saw this one. Gotta say, I like this one better, I guess cause I prefer presuppositional apologetics. Still love what both you guys did though.
Welllll, actually, according to Romans 1, all people _do_ have the knowledge of God, but is actively suppressing that knowledge, due to our sinful nature that desires Gods sovereignty for ourselves. And indeed, when we go to the most isolated primative societies, we find that, for the most part, monotheism is the earliest religious form. So, when you apply his first argument to Christian theology, he inadvertently proved the Christian God does exist. If he knew a bit more of the Bible than what he learned from kindergarden, he would not have made that argument.
Well according to MY book all humans are born WITHOUT any knowledge of the existence of Santa for adults....Not all of us give one flying fig what the Bible says. Why don't you read the Gospel of Thomas and discover how diverse early Christianity truly was (before the Catholic Church, etc., destroyed as much of the early gnostic, etc. writings as possible)? Why is the "book" of Revelation in the Bible and NOT the Apocalypse Of Peter??? Do you know the history of your magic book???
@@jancerny8109 Ofcause there are exceptions, but it is a fact that the most prominent form of religion among primitive tribes are monotheism. Here is an hour long video exploring countless primitive monotheist societies all over the world: th-cam.com/video/b-bMgXQV7no/w-d-xo.html
@@tylerkasuboski3366 And I don't care what you say. God, who created us, knows our hearts and He says all people have knowledge of God, and are suppressing it, so no one will have a defence on the day of judgement. In fact, your actions are proving me right. If you don't care what the Bible says, what are you doing on a youtube channel like this? Why are you even commenting here? You obviously _do_ care, and you obviously _don't_ like it. Point being, raising that first argument is not going to score you any points. I have read part of the Gospel of Thomas. It's just a bunch of random sayings, It isn't in the Bible, because it is not a Christian text, but a gnostic text. The Early Church knew who the apostles were, because they were converted by them, and viewed their words as authoritative. They only accepted texts which they could trace back to the apostles, and they did not accept texts willy-nilly. They were willing to put their lives on the line for their faith, so they made sure that what they have was authoritative. And it is not difficult to know what they viewed as authoritative, because they copied the New Testament letters faster than the Romans could destroy it. We have thousands of early copies and fragments of the NT, despite 300 years of persecution. So, the idea of a "broad community with diverse believes" is make believe for Atheists trying to suppress the truth. You only need to count the manuscripts to know what the overwhelming majority of Christians viewed as authoratitive. But then again, I bet you asked the question rhetorically. I bet you didn't expect, or even wanted an answer.
@@Hannodb1961 Assuming you’re right, what does it prove? Are astrology and divination proven correct by their near-universal popularity around the world?
Tim, you and Mike successfully diffused the Atheist bomb! And it appears Mike may have done it in less than 3 minutes too. However, the trophy goes to you for the additional fallacy count and videography 🏆. .....
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. - Genesis 2:19-20 God created, Adam named; why is this so difficult to comprehend? TE implies death before The Fall. TE is un-biblical nonsense. Period.
@@garethwest9069 Figure out your own flavor of christianity before going at other people. Each one of you guys have ever so slightly different rules. Must be a lot of different heavens huh
@@dryfox11 Easier to babble nonsense than to walk the scientific road and evaluate Biblical claims in light of history, fulfilled prophecy and science. Truth is scary, huh? (And I thought atheists "loved science"; hmmm ...). While we're at it, please explain how you drew the conclusion that God (of the Bible) doesn't exist.
I bet you were presenting evidence for God that was just too much for them.....(yes, I'm being sarcastic). You probably got blocked cause you were acting like a d-bag.
@@tylerkasuboski3366 that's a subjective term. I was contradicting 'evidence' and pointing out their inability to formulate an argument without use of posturing and ridicule.
I watched his first, but enjoyed yours just as much. I must say that it was funny how a couple of the answers matched almost exactly. On yours, I especially liked the fallicy counter, and that you explained each fallicy. Good job to you both! Thanks!
This channel really has a habit of showing the hubris of some atheists online. The fallacies you defeated in the video are cliches, I don't know if the atheist in question is supremely arrogant or supremely stupid but a person lacking both those qualities would know those "proofs" have existed for centuries and have done nothing to slow down belief.
The thumbs down gets pressed within mere SECONDS, of these videos getting posted! Some people thumb down these kinds of videos, without even WATCHING them. Sad...
@@lukereynolds711 Well, it is quite a slap when two youtubers have a contest for how fast they can smack down your arguments. That's gonna leave a mark... probably from a red pen ...
Mike Winger sent me here and now I'm subscribed! On the jealousy argument, he said God is jealous of false gods and my mind just said, He's not jealous of false gods, He's jealous of His children trying to replace Him! Same as with relationships these days and your ex thinks they upgraded but, in fact downgraded massively. If you still love them, you would be jealous regardless! Maybe not the best analogy but that's where my mind went I guess. Great job on the video!
Interesting video! The 1st comment stating, That a human has to tell you that there is a god.. Nope, Helen Keller, Blind , deaf and mute, since a baby, was once asked If she believed in God. She replied, Thru sign language, .. "Yes. I do. I never knew what He was called, But I AWAYS knew he was there". #2, I was not raised in a Christian home, never went to church as a child, but I could always be heard singing Jesus Loves me, this I know!!!! As I played outside in our yard. Like Helen Keller, I just always felt His presence. I could go on But I have to get to the barn to do chores.... More later....
@@tylerkasuboski3366 yeah atheists argument are typically analogous to the handicapped kid, in contrast to the CHAD theistic philosopher of religion. Good analogy!
@@plzenjoygameosu2349 Bro what, they just ask for proof, if they can disprove the proofs they don't believe. The commenter in this video made a mistake when he provided proofs to disprove something instead of asking for proof and then disproving those.
@@plzenjoygameosu2349 “Arguing with a religious person is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board, and returns to its flock to declare victory.” You and tyler are a great example of this. You provide no evidence of your claims, demand the falsification of an unfalsifiable claim, and equate other humans arguments and opinions to that of a “handicapped kid.” Right. Didn’t expect much else from the same ideologies that considered murder and rape as “optional” all throughout its religious history. But hey, as an agnostic, I make my own morals! And I get to say murder and rape are bad, because they are. :3
Wait I came here because of his video, now you want me to go over there? Only for him to tell me to go over here? I can’t be stuck in this loop forever…
I personally am an atheist, but I gotta say, for the most part at least, I had the same thoughts about that guy's arguments. Most of them asserted things that the points didn't prove. Good job👍
@@mayleespann4552 Put yourself in their shoes. Most American atheists are former Christians. Imagine that you grew up believing in a religion that you now believe to be false, a religion on the basis of which you made many decisions but now see as a fraud. It's normal for those atheists to be frustrated and pissed off for a while. They can't even blame their parents because they know that they too were victims of the same sham. But usually that's just a phase that lasts a few years and eventually passes. In Europe for example most atheists are atheists simply because they were not indoctrinated in any religion. I live in Holland and most of my friends never talk about religion (and they are atheists).
As an atheist, we don't claim that guy. Most of his points are either ridiculous or riddled with fallacies. Some, on the other hand, are understandable. Here's an atheist's take on them: 1. It is albeit not all fleshed out, but the point is not incoherent. Allow me to elaborate: God (or the Christian / Monotheistic God) is tri-omni: omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient. If knowledge that there is a God is necessary for salvation and the redemption from eternal suffering, it seems impossible that God would not make the fact of his existence undeniable (and I'm sorry, theists, there are arguments to be made, but it is certainly not undeniable). So is he not loving enough, not powerful enough or not knowledgeable enough? Either way, the tri-omni God seems to fail on this point. 2. Yeah, wrong, People convert all the time. 3. We know nothing about the time before the Big Bang, but we also don't know that time definitely did not exist before the Big Bang, so any claim about this time is to be instantly discredited, because we don't know, and based on our current understanding of Physics, we can't know. 4. The fact that Gods have been around for all of human history doesn't prove there is a God. Also, you call God "created" in your premise, and the claim that humans made God up is exactly what you're trying to prove. 5. I mean... yes. Hard to fault this one. I guess you could argue the free will of Satan, but if God can and will chain him up and then cast him into a lake of fire to suffer forever, essentially taking his free will to do harm on Earth away, it makes little sense why someone who is all-loving (i.e. who hates all kinds of (at the very least unneccesary) suffering) would allow him to wreak havoc the way he does. 6. The first commandment only implies that God is jealous of human's attention, not necessarily that humans giving attention to other "Gods" and idols means they're true. If I'm not mistaken, the Hebrew word used for other "Gods" is elohim, which only means divine being, which for example could still be a demon or the devil. Doesn't make them Gods. 7. Lack of evidence is not the same as disproof. 8. The concept of nothing works without it making that nothing something. And Christians don't need to believed that God necessarily made the universe from nothing, for if God existed beforehand then there seems to be a "something" to make it out of. Maybe the universe is part of the essence of God? 9. Yes, it is hard to argue that creation is fine-tuned. Simply because of the amount of lifeless planets and space between them. The idea that someone created all this, the entire universe, just for us humans, seems rather redundant. The argument you make, though, pointing out the flaws on Earth, can be argued against by saying creation fell due to the fall of man in Genesis 3. 10. Evolution is, at this point, essentially proven to be true, but all that means is that God is no longer necessary to explain the current state of affairs on Earth. One must still ask the question where life came from to be evolved, and one can even say, as a theist. that God guided evolution. A Christian claiming this would have to let go of biblical inerrancy, because of the Genesis 1 account, but yes, it is possible to claim. Evolution does not disprove God, but it does disprove that the Earth, the animal kingdom and us humans were created 6500 years ago, at the same time. So Brien Doyle: do better. This was some pretty shoddy reasoning on most accounts. It frustrates theists to see such terrible argumentation, and it frustrate atheits who see its obvious lack of merit, even if they agree with your conclusion. Not cohesive for good discourse between theists and atheists.
I would have thought the first mistake Doyle made was trying to prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist. I wonder how he would prove that unicorns don't exist. I think it is pretty much common sense at this point that Atheists cannot prove that god does not exist, instead, the best thing they can do is disprove the reasons for why people think god exists--such as why the creationist theory is incompatible with evolution--and furthermore, provide reasons for why they think religion is harmful to society. At least, these are the kinds of arguments I see Atheists make, such as Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris. Lastly: We all agree that Doyle failed, but I can see why he made the points that he made. They were not entirely outlandish. For example, Doyle's first point is completely false as it does not prove that god does not exist; however, I think he is pointing out something very legitimate, which is that there is no good evidence to base your belief on the existence of god. In other words, just because you were told god exists obviously does not mean that god exists.
Well, for the first point that you made: it should be noted that people will not go to Hell if they have no knowledge of God: that includes babies and some isolated tribe deep in the Amazon. It's even written in the Bible, said by Jesus, reaffirmed by Paul (I don't remember the chapters or verses cause I suck with numbers). In other words, God is omnibenevolent, because His mercy extends to everyone, He is omnipotent because, well, His mercy still extends to everyone. And He's omniscient because His mercy extends to everyone. He's tri-omni (more accurately quad-omni, for He is also Omnipresent), because His everlasting Grace and Mercy to those who know and those who are ignorant. I disagree on the forth point, because you can have One Truth and multiple lies. The concept being that there aren't many truths, just ONE Truth. Anyone who says there are multiple truths are therefore saying there are no lies, which ironically validates the atheist claim of "there is no truths", which also means that, if there are no truths, or there are multiple truths, then the Earth is flat, geocentric, and we're all gods, all three of which are simply false. And for Christians, the concept of multiple truths just does not work. John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto them, 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life: no man cometh before the Father but by Me.'" with Jesus saying He's the Truth, which means that there can only be one truth. As such, Earth is, in fact, round, falls under that one truth, and the solar system is just that: it's heliocentric, which falls under that one truth, and we're all sinners, falling short to the glory of God, which is, yet again, that one truth. God allows Satan to run amok in this world in the fifth point, just as much as there are horrible people running amok: it shows how evil and deprived we really are, that there are consequences to our actions, and horrible things happen to even good people. It's not because God doesn't love us, but because He's showing us that the world does not love you, that it's a horrible place. That's why Jesus died on the cross and resurrected on the third day. As for your ninth point, who's to say that there aren't other humans on other planets, or even other races that are going through the same tribulations as our planet? We can't really tell, because in order to actually know, we have to send a probe to a planet, observe said planet, collect samples, and see what's up. It's especially mysterious, as the exo-planets we see are thousands to millions of light years away, and we're seeing those planets in the past. Like Kepler 452b. We're not seeing Kepler 452b in the present, we're seeing the planet 26 MILLION years in the past. I could be absolutely wrong with my time dialation, so, rebuke me as you see fit: I don't do well with numbers. These are the points I'm arguing, because the others, with some minor disagreements, I do actually agree with.
Since you both completed the challenge with 0:01 left, I’m gonna declare Mike the winner because his overall video was a minute less than Mr. B’s. (Though extra points to Mr. B for his fallacy counter.)
I never understood Atheist’s desire to “disprove” God. His existence isn’t a matter of prove or disprove. It’s heavily personal and to try to disprove His existence to a believer really is just massively disrespectful. It does however give our Theologians something do.
Some people are truth seekers, and whether there is a God or not is pretty important. I was raised Christian and used to be devout. I thought if God were true then science would show that. However science and religion don't line up. But if there was a God sending people to hell, I think it's pretty wise to make sure you're right in not believing. If you're not interested in truth than believe whatever you want. I'm interested in why you think someone searching for truth is disrespectful.
Atheists don't have a desire to disprove god. We aren't convinced by your low IQ reasoning and lack of evidence that your god exists. But you then try to affect our lives based on your religion so we are forced to reject you which hurts your feefees. If theologians want something to do they could provide any evidence that their god is real. For now a theologian has the same qualifications as the guy who takes your order at Wendy's they just have a way easier life.
I would reply to to second point with the following: if you were born into a Chinese family, you would be an atheist, or a secular huminist if you were born into a family in sweden
@@bazookajoe-u2w the point in hand is that the argument is not only invalid due to Christian minorities is said countries but it can be flipped back onto them
interesting that you both invoked Theistic evolution to reject #10. I would've just said "Yeah evolution actually isn't proven." and left it at that. Actually what I usually do is point out that "Evolution" is an equivocation fallacy that confuses the concepts of Micro- and Macro- evolution. Let me elaborate: Microevolution (Change within the bounds of a species) is otherwise known as Natural Selection, and is a reasonably reliable scientific principle. i.e. it has been "proven." Additionally, it poses no threat to Biblical Christianity. Macroevolution (One species changing to another) is what most people think of when they hear the word "evolution." There is little to no evidence this could feasibly happen. Additionally, Micro- and Macro- evolution work on separate "engines" if you will. Microevolution operates by differential reproduction, and results in loss of genetic traits from a certain population. Macroevolution, on the other hand, operates (supposedly) by mutations, and results in an addition of genetic traits to a population. This engine has a lot of problems, but for now suffice to say Macroevolution doesn't work. The equivocation comes in when atheists say "Evolution is proven" and they lump Macro- and Micro- evolution together into one term.
I always put forward that, whether Evolution is true or untrue, it doesn't disprove Intelligent Design. In fact, IF Evolution is true, it would NECESSITATE intelligent design in order for the Chaos to be reigned back into Order and the ultimate culmination of the Human Being, with conscience and conscious thought...
You do have longer vids! Make MORE. I like the 2-3 min ones but I like to hear more on many issues, 6-8 can still usually hold most people's attention.
#9 in an atheistic worldview, how can he substantiate a “mistake”? Seriously, if all that exists is matter chaotically bumping into matter and having chemical reactions, then how does the idea of a “mistake” fit in? A “mistake” is an immaterial category and he can only claim that immaterial things exist if he borrows from God to get there...so once again, the atheist has proven God’s existence within his own wording of the question.
@@bladerunner3314Typical Reddit Atheist cares about making baseless insults than having an intelligent discussion.😂😂😂. I will suggest you to have a therapy session with Jesus Christ, because he has always been waiting to greet you with open arms.
😂 I am a Christian and I can’t imagine arguing like the atheist in this video. Coz it is like me arguing: 10 ways to “prove” that God does exist. 😮 1. The fact that there’s the Bible telling you that God exists proves that there is a God. Because if God exists God would want to give you a special revelation for His existence! 😎😎😎 (lol) 2. A belief in that there is no God is simple geography. Being raised in an atheistic home determines that you believe there is no God. So obviously this means atheism is false guys! 🤩🥳 3. There was no time before the Big Bang, so how did the Big Bang begin to happen out of a state of literal no time? God did it guys! Trust me coz I totally understand how the Big Bang works! 🤯🦄 4. Evolution definitely did not happen because there were other older theories on how life came into being guys! We can debunk the evolution the same way we can debunk those previous theories! Just trust me bro! 😊 5. If the Universe is such a cruel place, why do I feel so happy then! The fact a lot of people are so happy means a God who wants me to be happy exists 😗🔥 6. The atheists always say “oh my G”, so that must mean that God exists!!! 🤫 7. There’s no evidence that spiritual beings do not exist, so we can conclude they exist!!! 😍🤪🥸 8. There’s no such thing as “nothing” except before the Big Bang there was “nothing”! So God made the universe out of it! 🥶🥶🥶 9. This is definitely a finely tuned universe, look at how I can eat delicious foods and drink water 😍🥰 10. Evolution is proven true but it could not have happened without God!!! 🤨🤪 This is just a joke guys. Some parts of the list aren’t direct parallels to the original comment of that atheist. I tried to be creative and come up with the worst arguments for God’s existence possible so that I can torture my fellow atheists with bad logic this time!
To see how Mike Winger did with these same 10 "proofs," go to: th-cam.com/video/8LSI_NplhY4/w-d-xo.html
Love ur thumbnail!🤩
Mike is ur wingman now😂
I just watched all your videos love all of them
I completely destroyed Mike Winger's arguments
th-cam.com/video/8LSI_NplhY4/w-d-xo.html
I havent checked out your responses yet, but I look forward to destroying them too
Hmm...started listening to your arguments, but ....tedious.
Now, I can't say there is no god, but the totality of evidence and logic certainly shows beyond reasonable doubt that the Christian god is a phoney. And here are some points
Not a single supernatural claim from the bible has been proven
, even after 2000 years
Similar virgin birth, dying & rising gods in other belief systems, most of which are now discredited
In may religions a saviour appeared to a tribe telling them they were the only ones who mattered or were special
Not a single miracle claimed by believers has been proven
by the scientific community
No evidence of any knowledge in the bible that would be anomalous for 1st cent AD people to have
Bible does not concord with scientific knowledge
Biblical predictive capability, esp from 2nd cent AD onwards, sorely lacking
Bible's geographic knowledge consistent with that of the Romans and Jews only, suggests purely human origins
Archeological evidence of Yahweh being derived from earlier Canaanite pantheon
Evidence that the Romans created the Jeesus character to impose a pacifist messiah on the Jews
The "god" of the bible uses many human inventions made up to the 1st cent AD
Lack of historical/ archaeological corroboration for OT stories (great flood, Moses, exodus, 40yrs in desert, sermon on mount etc)
No extrabiblical accounts contemporary to Jeesus
Evidence that all of the NT was written well after alleged crucifiction of Jeesus: Pauline epistles in the 50s or later, gospels from the 70s AD or later
Evidence that Josephus had a hand in writing the NT, for his Roman masters
Numerous wars between Romans and Jews from 167bc to 135ad gives ample motive for Romans to quell Jews with a pacifist messiah
Jeesus' behaviour in the NT suggests Greco-Roman culture rather than that of typical messianic Judaism
Bible appears to have been set in the past from when it was written, to deliberately convey that predictions had come true to justify the fate befallen upon the defeated Jews, and to teach them a lesson
☺️🙏🏼🕊🌹
Hahahaha! I am blown away that we both did it with one second left. I didn't actually know how I did until after recording but that's crazy! But I'll say one thing. @ 4:40 your timer mysteriously stopped counting. I'll have you know that I kept my timer going even when I played a clip from Lawrence Krauss. I'm not saying that means I won BUT I could see how OTHER people would see this as cheating and declare that I won and you lost. I could see that happening.
😂😂😂 Lots of LuV to ya Mike =) God bless 💜💜💜
Mike u and Tim are really a blessing to body of Christ!!!
And u won🤣( I guess!)
🤣😂🤣😂
Lol
@@thecassandraeffectvsperilo6754 bruh, loved both the videos, I can't describe the feel, Love
Now we're speedruning apologetics lol
"God is real and pretty awesome speedrun" any %
😂
LMAO
Amazing!
Gotta get the fastest time on apologetics done quick.
The sad thing is I've seen credible atheists unironicly give some of these exact arguments
Is there such a thing as a credible atheist?
@@AtlasofSol People can be credible in certain areas and not credible in others.
Most atheists/agnostics that I have talked to usually boil down their beliefs in a few ways
1. The claims the Bible makes about biology does not work worth modern understanding of life. This would then lead to, if one miracle is false, why believe all the miracles of the Bible
2. The role of the church and people. Even if there is a creator god, how do we know if the "laws he wrote" are truely written by God. It's harder to believe that a book was defended by a supernatural deity more than it is that the Bible was written by men who wanted to make it easier to control the population with thought control.
3. Morality, the subjectivity. We can agree if someone is done to save someone else i.e. greater good mentality, they would do "evil" to bring great good. If you stole a gun someone was going to use to kill people, is that a sin? If you wanted to have a murderer executed, would that be murder? Many things can be seen as subjective in this instance
These are the main reasons I am an agnostic. Technically athiesm is a belief system. Logically speaking, agnostics have more of a rational view on it.
I doubt you would be able to convince me out of it anyways because one of your fundemental beliefs is that the holy Spirit would change my heart. I doubt what you would say be better than a supernatural god member
@@wesleybasener9705 I kinda see where you are coming from. I guess in my mind, because of my fundamentalist background, we kinda saw the more progressive Christians as heretics and woke. Maybe that does come out as a bias.
@@wesleybasener9705 it may be a weaker form, but it's the form that had the strongest negative impact to my life.
#10 reminds me of the old joke:
The devil comes a-calling at heaven’s gate one day to talk with God. “So you created life?” he says. “Pshaw! That’s easy.”
God replies, “So go ahead. Show me.”
The devil reaches down to grab a handful of dirt. But God knocks the devil’s hand away. “Nuh-uh.” says He. “Get your own dirt.”
Amen
Ex Nihilo( out of nothing!)
Oohh I have never heard this and I love it! Gotta use this one! ☺️
Yeah, so old@Darth Quantum amused himself by making comments on youtube - aw, how cute...
🤣
I've read a similar joke except the devil was replaced by a group of scientists trying to prove God was no longer necessary because science had replaced Him.
Same punchline, though.
@Darth Quantum stardust dolls with souls
These "Arguments" are peak Reddit.
Have you ever noticed one, particular, gross self-inconsistency of these sorts of people, wherein they, on the one hand, go about squawking that they have evidence/proof that God does not exist, while yet, on the other hand, they make a really big noise about telling you that they are not claiming God does not exist, but that they merely "lack belief" that He exists? I mean, does that not go to advertise just how worthless they, themselves, consider their "evidence/proof that God doesn't exist" to be--that they are so eager to disavow belief of the very thing for which they claim they have "evidence"/"proof".
@@djengo77 It's also quite telling how they can't even prove their own existence without us seeing them.
@@christianastrophobe LOL very true
@@onethdasanayake3689 got that from Dr. Wood
@@christianastrophobe Which Dr. Wood I may ask?
Love how you did this, Mr. Barnett. Laid out every single fallacy made in his post nice and easy.
A Bible thinker and Red Pen collab. This is epic. Thanks for always making me laugh through these great teachings.
Our pleasure!
This comment is what we’re all thinking 😂
Liked the fallacy counter, but why limit yourself to one fallacy per argument? Most of them committed multiple fallacies. You could easily have run up the score.
probably because the timer, but agreed
@secretshadow If that's the case, provide evidence. Otherwise, you're merely making an unbacked claim.
@secretshadow ok...give an example. You're not helping yourself here be specific.
@secretshadow oh I see, I missed the first comment, only saw your second one. I'll read your points now
@secretshadow about the first question, the point is that just like any fictional character, someone has to tell you about it so you can know about its existence, and if god wants us to worship him, he would make you already know about him, but apparently, you all only found him billions of years after the earth was created, he uses the example about fractions, but he has to remember that fraction isn't living, fraction doesn't want you to know about them, neither is fraction omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.
- You mean, like leaving evidence. Maybe a book? Maybe evidence in the book that has truths, before we had the technology to understand them? Maybe evidence that things like evolution are false; proof that life cannot come from non life, Proof that things don't evolve - Dogs don't produce bananas, apples don't produce cats. You mean like that kind of stuff? Ignoring the evidence doesn't mean its not there.
about the second question
he totally missed the point, the point was that most people believe in what they were taught since they were children, that does not mean all of them were true, because they contradict each other, it's not from where that belief came from, it means that most people (again, not all) will just believe in what they were taught in their upbringings, and it does not work for atheists, because that would only be true if atheists grew up in atheist homes, which is almost always not true.
- Correct, but thats not proof that something doesn't exist. My parents didnt teach me how to be a business owner, some parents did. That doesn't mean something you didn't learn at home is or is not true.
the third one, he says "god is timeless", something timeless can't exist, because exist is a verb on the present, and something that is timeless isn't in the past, future or present, meaning it cannot fit to any verb, you can't say he "is" something, you can't say he "exists", "creates" or anything else
- Time, Space and Matter had to come into existence simultaneously. To say something doesn't exist because you cannot understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. People didn't understand micro organisms, until we had the technology to see them... does not mean they didn't exist. Youre saying you cannot understand something before time, space and matter, therefor it doesn't exist. You are framing an argument to make God not exist. "Its not possible to be timeless, therefor God cannot exist."
about the fourth question, he meant the biblical god has to be the first god, because he created humanity, according to his own words, but he isn't, again to what i said, only 4.6 billions years later he was discovered.
- No, Read Gen 1. In the beginning God created... There was not billions of years, but merely days.
fifth one, and again, god is eternal, as you all claim him to be, so there was some point that god existed and the devil didn't (i know i am contradicting what i said about the third question, because this is all non-sense) and something can't come into existance from nothing, according to you, so god has to have created the devil, plus good reasons? seriously? if he has to create evil for good reasons and he is all loving, he can't be all powerful, because he could have done it in a better way according to his own morals.
- If you believe evolution, you believe everything came from nothing. Big Bang. Nothing exploded and created everything.
- How can anything exist without its opposite? Can you have love without hate? Can you have life without death? Can you have light without darkness? Again, read genesis. Sin brought evil into the world.
the sixth answer is straight up false, the point is that the bible refers to other gods as gods, not as false gods.
- "Thou shall have no other god's before me" - People Idolized many things, Sun god, god of rain, fertitilty god... If you notice the word god is not capitalized, meaning they are false gods. The capital G God is THE GOD, lower case g is false gods. This can be anything we put faith in... Evolution is a religion, is god is death.
seventh answer, he says immaterial beings are not made of anything, god is spirit, which just contradicts himself, because the point is that there is no evidence for spirits.
- There is no evidence in spirits? Ok, How come if someone dies, lets say from suffocation, their body is perfectly intact... why cannot the body live again? Spirit. Mind, Body Soul. No one denies all 3 of these exist.
eigth answer is just ignorance, if nothing existed, nothing would be something, because nothing can't exist, something can exist, he clearly showed that he did not understand this, but still answered anyways because hey it's gonna make him look smart
- Back to Genesis - God spoke the world into existence... so it wasn't made from 'something.' Evolution offers a similar explanation, nothing exploded and turned into everything.
"something doesn't have to be perfectly designed to have an intelligent creator" it does if that creator is perfect, after all, does he know what that word means? then he goes with another weak argument, which just says that god is not all loving, again, contradicting his own god.
- No, Back to Genesis again. What God created was perfect. When Sin entered into the world so did suffering and death. Your basically saying if you crashed your new car, then its the manufacturers fault for building it with the damage from you crashing it.
tenth answer, it has nothing to do with the idea of a god, but it has to do with the idea of YOUR god. that is the point, your god claim to have created humans, not made them evolve, but of course, people back then didn't know that was a thing
- Evolution is clearly false and doesn't need anything to disprove it other than science. Without getting into all the ways evolution is not true, he simply points out that without even disproving evolution, which is simple to do, its still not proof that God doesn't exist.
Hope that help! But I doubt you'll take the time to understand it, instead you'll just find more excuses on why you believe what you believe. Best of luck!
This is good. You know I can't believe that I chose to be an atheist at such a young age, but to gradually find myself become spiritual and religious as I attempt to understand myself and the world around me, a strange but powerful process is at play.
why exactly did you need to become religious? did god tell you to do that?
@@KronStaro in not wanting to keep making the same mistakes, to have a happier life, I read more to understand my personal problems. In doing so I ended up reading more religious information as the wisdom there was the most profound and clear, still relevant today when we translate and understand on a personal level.
@@Rhymeswithreasonbunbuichi wisdom eh? so which one out of thousands of different religions and sects did you choose? oh thats right Christianity, and what makes you think that its the right one? oh thats right its part of your culture
@@KronStaro He didn’t say it was his culture
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 he didnt need to, i already know, thats the whole point of the reply.
I just watched Mike's challenge and ended up here. And now im on my way back to Mike's I guess. I have a feeling ill never finish
Same here...
THEIST THEORY: Tim B buffs and waxes his head before each video to better reflect the light of God.
Jacob Nussbaum Haha. Guilty as charged!
A year later and this cracked me up. Thank you Jacob
Used to stem an ancient believe why Monks would shave their heads, was because the "Holiness of God would enter into the top of the head."
It's also this believe why women were always supposed to cover their head because they were not allowed to be holy.
As well as why the pope always covered his head, because he could not be any more holy otherwise he could be close or even to God.
Of course we all know this to be bogus,
But that's what used to be taught, years upon years ago within catholicism
Thanks Tim. I like to use your content for my grade 7/8 Christian living class. You keep it intelligent AND fun. Way to go!! 😊
For #7, I think it is important to mention that the text was kinda taken out of context though. God (Yahweh) wasn't jealous of the "gods", but he was jealous of his people's affection for the false gods. He was angry that people devoted themselves to another god or that they tried to serve both Him and other idols. In the same way that a girlfriend gets mad that her boyfriend spends all his time playing video games and not with her (to whom he should be devoted). The object of jealousy doesn't have to be an animate being.
That's what I was thinking
Also keep in mind despite the "expert" teaching, "yahweh" is not the name of God but an Egyptian slur against God's name. In case we''d forget, God wrote his name down for us. Jehovah, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit (Ghost) but never 'yahweh'. I think God knows his own name and can put it in his own book.
or is it more of indignation?
like he did so much for the people and they worshipped some deity that neither exist nor helped the people?
@@fireballxl-5748 Respectfully, can I ask where you got this information? I am genuinely curious how somebody came to that conclusion.
@@bamboo1763 I studied it long ago. But even if you discount the Egyptian slur part of the comment the rest stands firm on it's own.
I once got a comment stating we had to be told about God therefore God doesn't exist. My response was someone had to come up with the idea to tell others in the first place which proves we don't have to be told about God to believe in God, unless God did the initial telling humans about himself, in which case God definitely exists.
yup it's literally a self-defeating argument
@@inorudreamer the issue it that everyone claims a different God spoke to them. Plus human brains are insane, they can make you see and believe things that arent truly there, especially if you believe so fervently.
Looks like you’ve stumbled across the Cartesian Ontological Argument:
1. I have the idea of a perfect being-i.e., God.
2. Ideas, like other things, have causes-some by other ideas, some by extra-mental realities the ideas are of.
3. But my idea of God cannot have been casued by other ideas of my own.
4. So, my idea of God is caused by the extra-mental reality it is an idea of: that which actually possesses those perfections; i.e., God.
People thought the sun was god, so they decided to change it up a little
While the argument is flawed, so is your response.
I am taking a critical thinking course right now as part of my undergrad in engineering (it’s an elective) and man it was so cool to see you use all these fallacies I’m learning about.
Great video!
Critical thinking course 😀 That sounds like indoctrination process.
@@roman_kofyno "Critical thinking course 😀 That sounds like indoctrination process."
He didn't even state his position. For all you know he could be an atheist. Even if he was a Christain, there's no reason to assume that someone is being indoctrinated because they're taking a critical thinking course. Maybe you're the one lacking critical thinking.
@@roman_kofyno god youre indoctrinated. Critical thinking is the most important skill we have as humans. Clearly you haave not trained it!
@@roman_kofynoplease explain the indoctrination
I didn't learn about logical fallacies until taking a phospphical elective class for fun in college. I immediately understood its potential and I on my free time dug further to eventually find The Trivium. This should be mandatory training starting in elementary.
LoL..both your video and Mike's popped up on my notifications at the same time..I'm *LOVING* you guys as a team!! Now I'm off to see Mike's =) God bless and keep ALL my Brother's and Sister's out there reading this 💜💜💜
Your rhetoric/jokes/sarcasm/transitions are like production level quality 👌 I feel like I’m watching some kind of educational but comedic documentaries from the 90s/early 2000s. Love it.
Imagine being the guy getting refuted . I would delete my account 😂😂
Or he could simply change the name, and channel pic... That would be far less inconvenient :-) But, seriously though, I hope he learned from this.
He wrote his arguments with such a condescending tone too, big oof
LoveYourNeighbour true . I was trying to be cute though haha 😜
I certainly would NOT delete my account due to a refutation by nimrods like Mike Winger. If I were "Brien Doyle" I'd do a bit more study on logical fallacies, study the history of this "debate", refine my argument, and in a few years re-present it. After all, there still will be NO proof of the Christian God's existence...so there's plenty of time.
@@tylerkasuboski3366 sounds like a faith based statement to me.
Thank you, thank you, and a zillion more THANK YOU'S to both you and Mike. Your enthusiasm and willingness to share all of your research and knowledge to help educate us is such a blessing. You are helping to raise up a new generation of apologists in the church. No more excuses for not knowing how to talk to skeptics and plant the seeds of truth (with love and respect). Bless you!
Thanks to "Red Pen" and " What do you meme" has made my faith in God stronger!🙏
I think I left several red marks on my forehead after hearing some of these um...proofs. Big oofs galore. Good red penning.
This came out of the blue. I like it. I would certainly watch another one where you team up with someone. We just need to find some more atheists to generate more questions...
th-cam.com/video/RfCKHAd4AYc/w-d-xo.html
What about this response?
help me out, I already found a comment on this video doing just that, read the third reply to the top comment (the pinned comment) its exactly what you're looking for.
State your beliefs using literal statements only
@@nsinkov A statement is inherently literal by stating it???
@@rodiusmaximus if you don't like the word "literal", then tell me what word to use. I'm talking about factual statements, as opposed to allegorical language
Ex-atheist here! Such a fire video! Well done!
God bless you, brother!
And to think, the person who originally came up with those "questions" was likely feeling good about himself. The naivety of youth-- when all arguments and solutions are just so simple if the "adults" would just listen.
Rhetoric is a dying art.
Rhetoric is still a very convincing tool for some people though. Unfortunately.
@@LoveYourNeighbour. Why unfortunately? Rhetoric, as an academic rigor, is supposed to, by definition, is persuasion.
@@dpwellman I'm not sure it's dying. TH-cam has quite a bit of high level rhetoric. Look at these channels for instance
@@lukesalazar9283 I'm speaking academically, really. Rhetoric used to be a required subject for all liberal arts degrees and military schools. If it is taught, much like economics and civics its a pale imitation of what it once was.
It is sad that rethoric on these days is not so popular for being a tool for convencing people of the truth (like the great philosophers did), but a tool for convencing people of false truth (like the sophistics used to do and continue to do). I love rethoric, but not in the way it is used today, for suporting of bad arguments.
Yeah I saw this when I was browsing the comments section and I was like [insert face palm meme]
Also, you forgot to mention that if argument #6 works, that would demonstrate polytheism, not atheism.
True 🤣
Right !! It does not conclude Atheism 😇
Wow, very true!
Sometimes it seems like some atheists are not anti-god, but they are anti-Christian God. Though it is not surprising as Christ kinda told us this would happen 🤷🏼♀️
@@kierstinott1741 I mean, do you know why they still reject Christian God? I don’t agree with the blame and praise the lord of the son gets but would proving Christianity give them more reasons to convert or more reasons to insult non-theists or other opposing theists?
As an agnostic-atheist, these arguments are all absolutely terrible and kind of elementary in terms of argumentation against God. They do seem misrepresented in some cases though, possibly to try to "dumb" down the arguments to make the opposition seem more ridiculous. Kind of bad faith representation.
How do you believe in a creator and also not believe in a creator? Agnostic atheist? It's like saying non binary
Just pick one💀
Mike sent me over, love the channel ❤️ I have a feeling your going to rise in subscribers 😍
Thanks so much! And thank for the sub!
You and Mike's uploads were within seconds of each other 😶
Andrew Coincidence? I think not.
@@RedPenLogic The last time I used "I think not" I was told "Then you should talk not." 😁🤣
@@RedPenLogic both you and Mike beat the clock by 0:01 left. Btw you channel is definitely one of my favorites. Keep the uploads coming (oh can you ask others to respond to this challenge as well?) Just an idea.
No he cheated . He shut off his timer . I counted a 14 second difference.
Yeah it's planned 🤪🤪🤪😄😁
Yay!! I discovered Mike Winger about 6 months ago, and have been slowly finding more awesome Christian channels. I am so happy to find this one too! I've been on TH-cam since back in 2012, and there just weren't fun, smart Christian channels back then (at least non that I could find). It was all atheist and such, Back then non of the big ministry's were on here, like AIG, and now they are all so active. . I didn't fall away from God, but I did get distracted from God being forefront in my life, and so I haven't even looked into Christain content on here, until God slapped me around a lil to wake me up. And now I see all these rich Christain content. I am so happy. If anyone knows of other great channels I would love to hear :)
I like calling out the fallacy before you do. It's good training!
These are the most absolute worst examples of what an atheist would say to a Christian to disprove God. How about the old if God is eternal and can do everything can he kill himself? If he kills himself he is not eternal, if can't then he can't do everything it's a paradox. The whole concept of God is flawed and if the Christian god does exist, is that really a god you would want to serve
@@ah-rr1lk a very similar question popped up in his comment section and answered it about if God is all powerful can he create a rock that he can't lift and he answered it you can check it out it's his fourth video. You guys need to quit cause this guy can disprove anything u guys say lmao.
@@dinoblack2978 I listened to his video. All of what he claimed is not in the bible. There are no verses to back up his claim and even if there were verses it doesn't mean the bible is real. He also states that God is logical. I just can't find the logic behind hardening Pharos heart instead of softening it only yo kill the first born babies
@@ah-rr1lk neither is can he kill himself or not found in the bible.
@@ah-rr1lk well truly I tell you if you search so deep ull see the truth that is found in the bible (all of it) but considering ur not open minded I hardly doubt ull do anything instead just watch videos about other atheist who found a couple of verses not even reading the full chapter behind it and getting their meanings from it.
If this is not a fine tuned universe, how do we know it's not fined tuned?? As C.S Lewis puts it: If light never existed, we wouldn't know we're living in the dark.
We don't know if the universe is fine tune or not. The only way to know if the universe can have different properties is if we observed another universe but this would then prove the multiverse.
That's my point. The only way we could know the universe is not finely tuned, is if we lived in a fine tuned universe, that way we can compare.
@@tedidk8639 that's missing the point. A universe with different properties would be a vastly different universe, and we dont even know what kind of properties that would be. The only evidence and experiments we can do are based on different universes that function on the same principles but have different values for constants, the value of gravity being one of those constants. We know that if the different constants were off by a fraction of a point, life could not exist. Even if the Cosmological constant, which is 10^10^123, was off by one point, life wouldn't exist. This one point in itself exhibits how finely tuned the universe is.
@@isaacsleeman5937
Your assuming of these constants can change which has yet to be proven. These constants could be explain by some hidden law of nature that we have yet to discover.
For example, you mentioned gravity as a force which it is a force in Newton's theory but in Einstein's theory of relativity gravity is a byproduct of mass and energy, the bending of space-time. It's not a force nor a constant. Who's to say the other constants cant be explain away?
@@BerishaFatian
So we have no idea if the universe is fine tune or not.
This channel is so underrated. I love the way you explain things to make it easy to understand for a non-english speaker like me. Kinda remind me of Jon (Whaddo You Meme). 👍
5:23: *This is an equivocation of the word nothing.*
An equivocation fallacy generally occurs when a word is used in different ways within the same argument. I don’t see that here: the argument’s use of _nothing_ doesn’t seem inconsistent.
Rather, I think this would be a reification fallacy, treating _nothing_ as if it had ontological status.
(smiles and nods head)
Two of my favorite teachers/apologists. You guys are awesome!
Just saw Mike Winger’s video and got the link to this. I think this one was actually much stronger especially using the names of the fallacies employed in the points the atheist tried to promote. Subbed!
I paused the video to read the comment and refute every line of thinking in my head. This is a very ineffective way to argue against God.
Yeah, I did as well, actually. (I was curious how closely my refutation would resemble HIS)
"This is a very ineffective way to argue against God."
I agree. Having no arguments against God is a very ineffective way to argue against God.
@@djengo77 You don't need any arguments against God, he never puts up a fight.
@@goldenalt3166 You wrote: "You don't need any arguments against God, he never puts up a fight."
Thank you for your succinct admission, here, that you have no argument(s) against God.
Why would God need to "put up a fight" to any argument(s) when no argument(s) are against Him?
@@djengo77 I have no argument against Santa Claus or Bigfoot either. It is sufficient to demonstrate that the proponents arguments are flawed. In the case of "God", we don't even have a definition.
If only I could post a mic-drop GIF here...
🎤
@@ronrontall6370 👋🎤 all I got
🎤 ⬇️
Excellent video and delivery
It’s good to both ask questions as well as to be questioned. As iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens [and influences] another [through discussion].(amplified). This has been a great opportunity to strengthen and develop the foundational roots of our beliefs. Thank you for the content!
I can’t stop laughing at your animated eyes. You are so entertaining 🤣 🤣 🤣 . I also like your logical arguments although I have to look away from the screen 😂🤣 🤣
Man I am in love with your videos ATM. I like the way you present things so much more concisely than any apologist I've seen. And still always have a seriously positive interaction in every way. And the spirit in this brothers eyes. It's great. I have the mind and some of the college but I am clearly not cut from the same cloth as you for this. I wish I could do this as you do.
Where can I find his ass to mouth (atm) vids?
You just gotta love Mike and Tim. Thank you Lord for giving us such great teachers 🙏❤️
yeah. they lie for a living about magic. The love is real :- ) Or g0d lies. It is one or the other. Because the evidence shows that genesis (and many other episodes in the b00k) are WRONG.
it is a b00k of lies. Or it is a b00k of truth and g0d manipulates the evidence, giving us all the bible debunking branches of science.
Now I have to watch Mike Wingers video again? Is this an endless loop?
My brother showed me your TH-cam channel and love it! I go to a Bible and Theology school called Criswell College in downtown Dallas. Keep it up brotha!
In Christ by the Spirit,
Patrick
You know what a Theology degree gets you in the real world? Maybe, just maybe a managerial position at a MacDonald's franchise.
According to studies by the Alban Institute and Fuller Seminary, 50 percent of ministers drop out of ministry within the first five years and many never to go back to church again (Meek et al., 2003,p. 340). Meek, K., McMinn, M., Brower, C., Burnett, T., McRay, B., Ramey, M., et al. (2003, Winter). Maintaining personal resiliency: Lessons learned from evangelical protestant clergy. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 31.4(9), 339-47.) A Duke University study found that 85% of seminary graduates entering the ministry leave within five years and 90% of all pastors will not stay to retirement. And let’s not forget, someone has to graduate last from seminary, would that person be you?
*You will have no basis to argue the case for Christ with anyone when an attrition rate like the above is the historical norm.*
@@BeachsideHank narrow is the road. Your stats agree.
Thank you for always making great content. Channels like yours have strengthened my faith in Christ. It is so good to see Christ's body working together through TH-cam. What a great platform to share truth! Thank you!
Point 10 completely presumes the conclusion. How absurd. Yeah, um, my side is right, so I don't need to prove it at all. Well that's definitely NOT how arguments work. How absurd.
That's the lacktheist go-to dismissal of theism.
Atheist: "Convince me my presuppositions are wrong!"
Theist: "Ok, let's talk about your presuppositions..."
Atheist: "Presup is such a joke! I have no presuppositions!"
Like you said, an absurdly bad joke...
I think atheists insert God into the place of Naturalism/Determinism.
He skips 'begging the question' but does make a premise about evolution that is a non-sequitur.
Evolution is a natural process that explains adaptations in creatures but it doesn't explain the creation of biological life or the Cambrian explosion.
It is also shown that an unguided process hasn't had the time to create complex life.
@@LoavesofBread Plus, though Darwin did believe all known gods to be false, he himself inevitably came to the conclusion that a god had to exist. Modern atheistic evolutionists might say that that was classical Darwinism, not today’s evolution. But regardless of whichever evolution process we refer to, the principle remains. It needs a God to work.
I mean, that’s the case no matter what Darwin says, but I think getting evidence from the founder doesn’t kill.
I agree. That was terrible there is literally no proof that evolution is a thing or even how the process work. Fossils show that creatures were already complete, no one has seen anything evolve into a new creature, and the evolutionary timetables seem to get smaller and smaller.
@@shawnboahene5231 How little you know about evolution is apparent in your reply. But that is not a surprise as most Christians suspend critical thinking when becoming a Christian... and yes I was also brainwashed into believing like a child also. I suggest looking up Aron Ra as he explains evolution succinctly with Christians and others who've had a religious lobotomy in mind.
The winner was anyone who sat through both of your videos. Love the content! Keep it up!
Honestly I couldn't wait to see you demolish these "proofs"
It's EASY to demolish idiotic anti-theist "claims" but MUCH harder to supply ANY legit evidence for the Christian God...
@@tylerkasuboski3366 Depends on who you're asking...
@@tylerkasuboski3366 That's true if you get to come up with a self serving definition of 'legit' and we have our arms twisted to go along with it. That's a bully move.
@@peterdobson3435 Can you come up with any evidence without twisting the definition of evidence?
@@goldenalt3166 Yes.
I'm an Atheist here, but honestly this is so disappointing to see. And the fact that there are those in the atheist community that try arguments like these to disprove god is so pathetic. I also hate the complex of Science vs God. Historically most notable scientists over 100 years ago were men and women of faith and yet still were able to hold true to their beliefs. Theists, and Atheists do this constantly and it's really so dumb. Science doesn't disprove god, and the bible doesn't disprove science. But really great responses, thanks for nipping these in the bud. Earned a sub for sure!
Thank you for that comment.
Brian has been bombarding my channel lately so to see your comment is a breath of fresh air.
Now this is the kind of throw down we need more of! So interesting, Mr. B and Mike Winger! I learned so much about refutation in under 6 minutes. ❤
Seems like that guy removed his comment.
I can't find it anymore 😂
lol
Typical, people like 'Brien Doyle' have no integrity. When disproven they slink back into the hole they crawled out of.
If these kinds of people want to be taken seriously, they should just study the arguments and refutations further and present their points again; otherwise acknowledge the truth.
2:19 One of the big problems with his argument is that some people go from one religion to another religion. Even in Muslim countries, some people go from Muslim to Christian. In Christian-majority countries, white people might go from Christian to another religion. In many countries, there are also _religious minorities_ that are not part of the majority religion.
Brother may God continue blessing you. You are an inspiration to my christian live..
Mike did it with a second to spare. You both have got to do this more often! This was AWESOME!
Just found out about your channel, and I am really glad I did 😁 You did an excellent job refuting these fallacies 👏👏👏 I'm not a big fan of winger but I won't hold that against you 😉
First time I've ever come across this channel and ill be hitting that subscribe button right now.... Awesome video
😄 good one. Going to watch Mike Winger's
Lemme just point out - You and @mikewinger are my very best teachers and apologists, your ministries are affecting and influencing people world wide - especially here in Kenya 💪🏾
Thank you for always giving us hope and thought on our Faith. Can't wait to do more practice, Bible study, prayer and interactions with people on an apologetic platform.
Shalom 💪🏾🙏
Hahahaha! Oh my goodness! You totally said what I’ve been thinking since I’ve found your channel. I have followed Mike for a while now, but his videos are just so long! 😂 He does great work! However I do appreciate your style.
The Way you teach is Amazing and funny, I love it
Amazing video! Succinct, intelligent and funny to boot!
Great job! I’m happy I found a new Christian channel to subscribe too. :)
I saw Mikes video and 10 proofs response the other day. It was well done. I have not seen this video but I expect it will be educational and funny.
Wow! Halleluiah! God bless you both Mike and Red Pen Logic guy! Your just making my faith stronger as a Christian! I feel pity for those dudes that doesnt believe with the Almighty Creator.
I feel sorry for people like you who do.
lmao this comment is so sad!
Saw Mike's first and then saw this one. Gotta say, I like this one better, I guess cause I prefer presuppositional apologetics. Still love what both you guys did though.
Came from Mike’s channel! Good stuff!
Welllll, actually, according to Romans 1, all people _do_ have the knowledge of God, but is actively suppressing that knowledge, due to our sinful nature that desires Gods sovereignty for ourselves. And indeed, when we go to the most isolated primative societies, we find that, for the most part, monotheism is the earliest religious form. So, when you apply his first argument to Christian theology, he inadvertently proved the Christian God does exist. If he knew a bit more of the Bible than what he learned from kindergarden, he would not have made that argument.
Well according to MY book all humans are born WITHOUT any knowledge of the existence of Santa for adults....Not all of us give one flying fig what the Bible says. Why don't you read the Gospel of Thomas and discover how diverse early Christianity truly was (before the Catholic Church, etc., destroyed as much of the early gnostic, etc. writings as possible)? Why is the "book" of Revelation in the Bible and NOT the Apocalypse Of Peter??? Do you know the history of your magic book???
The Pinaha are atheists. Austronesian cultures were polytheistic, if the reconstruction of their earliest belief system is to be trusted.
@@jancerny8109 Ofcause there are exceptions, but it is a fact that the most prominent form of religion among primitive tribes are monotheism. Here is an hour long video exploring countless primitive monotheist societies all over the world: th-cam.com/video/b-bMgXQV7no/w-d-xo.html
@@tylerkasuboski3366 And I don't care what you say. God, who created us, knows our hearts and He says all people have knowledge of God, and are suppressing it, so no one will have a defence on the day of judgement. In fact, your actions are proving me right. If you don't care what the Bible says, what are you doing on a youtube channel like this? Why are you even commenting here? You obviously _do_ care, and you obviously _don't_ like it. Point being, raising that first argument is not going to score you any points.
I have read part of the Gospel of Thomas. It's just a bunch of random sayings, It isn't in the Bible, because it is not a Christian text, but a gnostic text. The Early Church knew who the apostles were, because they were converted by them, and viewed their words as authoritative. They only accepted texts which they could trace back to the apostles, and they did not accept texts willy-nilly. They were willing to put their lives on the line for their faith, so they made sure that what they have was authoritative. And it is not difficult to know what they viewed as authoritative, because they copied the New Testament letters faster than the Romans could destroy it. We have thousands of early copies and fragments of the NT, despite 300 years of persecution. So, the idea of a "broad community with diverse believes" is make believe for Atheists trying to suppress the truth. You only need to count the manuscripts to know what the overwhelming majority of Christians viewed as authoratitive.
But then again, I bet you asked the question rhetorically. I bet you didn't expect, or even wanted an answer.
@@Hannodb1961 Assuming you’re right, what does it prove? Are astrology and divination proven correct by their near-universal popularity around the world?
Tim, you and Mike successfully diffused the Atheist bomb! And it appears Mike may have done it in less than 3 minutes too. However, the trophy goes to you for the additional fallacy count and videography 🏆. .....
I need to tag Mike in this!
As a TE Believer, I appreciate your comments and slam dunk on #10 especially. The whole debunk was awesome!
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him. - Genesis 2:19-20
God created, Adam named; why is this so difficult to comprehend? TE implies death before The Fall. TE is un-biblical nonsense. Period.
@@garethwest9069 Figure out your own flavor of christianity before going at other people. Each one of you guys have ever so slightly different rules. Must be a lot of different heavens huh
@@dryfox11 Easier to babble nonsense than to walk the scientific road and evaluate Biblical claims in light of history, fulfilled prophecy and science. Truth is scary, huh? (And I thought atheists "loved science"; hmmm ...). While we're at it, please explain how you drew the conclusion that God (of the Bible) doesn't exist.
Gentleman, you started your engines, sprinted around the course and completed the challenge in record time! Well done!
Cause screw proof, just get through it as fast as possible!
Too bad they were running the wrong direction on the wrong track.
It's funny to see you put atheist forum on blast. I just got blocked from their channel. They cant handle any dissenting opinion!
I bet you were presenting evidence for God that was just too much for them.....(yes, I'm being sarcastic). You probably got blocked cause you were acting like a d-bag.
@@tylerkasuboski3366 that's a subjective term. I was contradicting 'evidence' and pointing out their inability to formulate an argument without use of posturing and ridicule.
I watched his first, but enjoyed yours just as much. I must say that it was funny how a couple of the answers matched almost exactly. On yours, I especially liked the fallicy counter, and that you explained each fallicy. Good job to you both! Thanks!
This channel really has a habit of showing the hubris of some atheists online. The fallacies you defeated in the video are cliches, I don't know if the atheist in question is supremely arrogant or supremely stupid but a person lacking both those qualities would know those "proofs" have existed for centuries and have done nothing to slow down belief.
You can drink the ocean when the water is evaporated and turns into rain and delivered to your house, lake, river, etc.
the ocean is salty because of atheist tears
Love it dude. Keep that red ink flowing.
Hahahaha Trash talking Mikes 1+ hour videos got me lol. For real tho, I love his long videos
Whomever that person is that pressed the ‘thumb down’ for dislike, I’ll pray for you, lol.
Most likely it was Brien Doyle, lol!
@@lukereynolds711 LOL
The thumbs down gets pressed within mere SECONDS, of these videos getting posted! Some people thumb down these kinds of videos, without even WATCHING them. Sad...
@@LoveYourNeighbour. It's still beneficial to the channel as interaction because it still gets TH-cam to recommend it, thats a good thing! God bless!!
@@lukereynolds711 Well, it is quite a slap when two youtubers have a contest for how fast they can smack down your arguments. That's gonna leave a mark... probably from a red pen ...
Mike Winger sent me here and now I'm subscribed! On the jealousy argument, he said God is jealous of false gods and my mind just said, He's not jealous of false gods, He's jealous of His children trying to replace Him! Same as with relationships these days and your ex thinks they upgraded but, in fact downgraded massively. If you still love them, you would be jealous regardless! Maybe not the best analogy but that's where my mind went I guess. Great job on the video!
Interesting video! The 1st comment stating, That a human has to tell you that there is a god.. Nope, Helen Keller, Blind , deaf and mute, since a baby, was once asked If she believed in God. She replied, Thru sign language, .. "Yes. I do. I never knew what He was called, But I AWAYS knew he was there". #2, I was not raised in a Christian home, never went to church as a child, but I could always be heard singing Jesus Loves me, this I know!!!! As I played outside in our yard. Like Helen Keller, I just always felt His presence. I could go on But I have to get to the barn to do chores.... More later....
Do you think that you would still have been a Christian if you had grown up in, say, Iraq, in a Muslim environment?
Came here from Winger's channel, stayed for the good arguements.
This video was the equivalent of watching Mike Tyson beat on a handicapped kid. If you're impressed by THAT I feel bad for you....
@@tylerkasuboski3366 yeah atheists argument are typically analogous to the handicapped kid, in contrast to the CHAD theistic philosopher of religion.
Good analogy!
@@tylerkasuboski3366 Maybe, but the handicapped kid took ten swings, first, and probably got 10 million likes.
@@plzenjoygameosu2349 Bro what, they just ask for proof, if they can disprove the proofs they don't believe. The commenter in this video made a mistake when he provided proofs to disprove something instead of asking for proof and then disproving those.
@@plzenjoygameosu2349 “Arguing with a religious person is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks over all the pieces, craps on the board, and returns to its flock to declare victory.”
You and tyler are a great example of this. You provide no evidence of your claims, demand the falsification of an unfalsifiable claim, and equate other humans arguments and opinions to that of a “handicapped kid.” Right. Didn’t expect much else from the same ideologies that considered murder and rape as “optional” all throughout its religious history. But hey, as an agnostic, I make my own morals! And I get to say murder and rape are bad, because they are. :3
Wait I came here because of his video, now you want me to go over there? Only for him to tell me to go over here? I can’t be stuck in this loop forever…
I personally am an atheist, but I gotta say, for the most part at least, I had the same thoughts about that guy's arguments. Most of them asserted things that the points didn't prove. Good job👍
Here you can find a better a superior argumentation, based on these claims, by Prof. Stick.
th-cam.com/video/RfCKHAd4AYc/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for being kind. Most atheists I’ve met are on a rampage for some reason.
@@chrismmmhmm2337 Indeed.
@@mayleespann4552 Put yourself in their shoes. Most American atheists are former Christians. Imagine that you grew up believing in a religion that you now believe to be false, a religion on the basis of which you made many decisions but now see as a fraud. It's normal for those atheists to be frustrated and pissed off for a while. They can't even blame their parents because they know that they too were victims of the same sham. But usually that's just a phase that lasts a few years and eventually passes.
In Europe for example most atheists are atheists simply because they were not indoctrinated in any religion. I live in Holland and most of my friends never talk about religion (and they are atheists).
@@vejeke One could say they are indoctrinated into atheism.
The western thought is so tampered
As an atheist, we don't claim that guy. Most of his points are either ridiculous or riddled with fallacies. Some, on the other hand, are understandable. Here's an atheist's take on them:
1. It is albeit not all fleshed out, but the point is not incoherent. Allow me to elaborate: God (or the Christian / Monotheistic God) is tri-omni: omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient. If knowledge that there is a God is necessary for salvation and the redemption from eternal suffering, it seems impossible that God would not make the fact of his existence undeniable (and I'm sorry, theists, there are arguments to be made, but it is certainly not undeniable). So is he not loving enough, not powerful enough or not knowledgeable enough? Either way, the tri-omni God seems to fail on this point.
2. Yeah, wrong, People convert all the time.
3. We know nothing about the time before the Big Bang, but we also don't know that time definitely did not exist before the Big Bang, so any claim about this time is to be instantly discredited, because we don't know, and based on our current understanding of Physics, we can't know.
4. The fact that Gods have been around for all of human history doesn't prove there is a God. Also, you call God "created" in your premise, and the claim that humans made God up is exactly what you're trying to prove.
5. I mean... yes. Hard to fault this one. I guess you could argue the free will of Satan, but if God can and will chain him up and then cast him into a lake of fire to suffer forever, essentially taking his free will to do harm on Earth away, it makes little sense why someone who is all-loving (i.e. who hates all kinds of (at the very least unneccesary) suffering) would allow him to wreak havoc the way he does.
6. The first commandment only implies that God is jealous of human's attention, not necessarily that humans giving attention to other "Gods" and idols means they're true. If I'm not mistaken, the Hebrew word used for other "Gods" is elohim, which only means divine being, which for example could still be a demon or the devil. Doesn't make them Gods.
7. Lack of evidence is not the same as disproof.
8. The concept of nothing works without it making that nothing something. And Christians don't need to believed that God necessarily made the universe from nothing, for if God existed beforehand then there seems to be a "something" to make it out of. Maybe the universe is part of the essence of God?
9. Yes, it is hard to argue that creation is fine-tuned. Simply because of the amount of lifeless planets and space between them. The idea that someone created all this, the entire universe, just for us humans, seems rather redundant. The argument you make, though, pointing out the flaws on Earth, can be argued against by saying creation fell due to the fall of man in Genesis 3.
10. Evolution is, at this point, essentially proven to be true, but all that means is that God is no longer necessary to explain the current state of affairs on Earth. One must still ask the question where life came from to be evolved, and one can even say, as a theist. that God guided evolution. A Christian claiming this would have to let go of biblical inerrancy, because of the Genesis 1 account, but yes, it is possible to claim. Evolution does not disprove God, but it does disprove that the Earth, the animal kingdom and us humans were created 6500 years ago, at the same time.
So Brien Doyle: do better. This was some pretty shoddy reasoning on most accounts. It frustrates theists to see such terrible argumentation, and it frustrate atheits who see its obvious lack of merit, even if they agree with your conclusion. Not cohesive for good discourse between theists and atheists.
I would have thought the first mistake Doyle made was trying to prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist. I wonder how he would prove that unicorns don't exist.
I think it is pretty much common sense at this point that Atheists cannot prove that god does not exist, instead, the best thing they can do is disprove the reasons for why people think god exists--such as why the creationist theory is incompatible with evolution--and furthermore, provide reasons for why they think religion is harmful to society.
At least, these are the kinds of arguments I see Atheists make, such as Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris.
Lastly: We all agree that Doyle failed, but I can see why he made the points that he made. They were not entirely outlandish.
For example, Doyle's first point is completely false as it does not prove that god does not exist; however, I think he is pointing out something very legitimate, which is that there is no good evidence to base your belief on the existence of god. In other words, just because you were told god exists obviously does not mean that god exists.
Well, for the first point that you made: it should be noted that people will not go to Hell if they have no knowledge of God: that includes babies and some isolated tribe deep in the Amazon. It's even written in the Bible, said by Jesus, reaffirmed by Paul (I don't remember the chapters or verses cause I suck with numbers). In other words, God is omnibenevolent, because His mercy extends to everyone, He is omnipotent because, well, His mercy still extends to everyone. And He's omniscient because His mercy extends to everyone. He's tri-omni (more accurately quad-omni, for He is also Omnipresent), because His everlasting Grace and Mercy to those who know and those who are ignorant.
I disagree on the forth point, because you can have One Truth and multiple lies. The concept being that there aren't many truths, just ONE Truth. Anyone who says there are multiple truths are therefore saying there are no lies, which ironically validates the atheist claim of "there is no truths", which also means that, if there are no truths, or there are multiple truths, then the Earth is flat, geocentric, and we're all gods, all three of which are simply false. And for Christians, the concept of multiple truths just does not work. John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto them, 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life: no man cometh before the Father but by Me.'" with Jesus saying He's the Truth, which means that there can only be one truth. As such, Earth is, in fact, round, falls under that one truth, and the solar system is just that: it's heliocentric, which falls under that one truth, and we're all sinners, falling short to the glory of God, which is, yet again, that one truth.
God allows Satan to run amok in this world in the fifth point, just as much as there are horrible people running amok: it shows how evil and deprived we really are, that there are consequences to our actions, and horrible things happen to even good people. It's not because God doesn't love us, but because He's showing us that the world does not love you, that it's a horrible place. That's why Jesus died on the cross and resurrected on the third day.
As for your ninth point, who's to say that there aren't other humans on other planets, or even other races that are going through the same tribulations as our planet? We can't really tell, because in order to actually know, we have to send a probe to a planet, observe said planet, collect samples, and see what's up. It's especially mysterious, as the exo-planets we see are thousands to millions of light years away, and we're seeing those planets in the past. Like Kepler 452b. We're not seeing Kepler 452b in the present, we're seeing the planet 26 MILLION years in the past. I could be absolutely wrong with my time dialation, so, rebuke me as you see fit: I don't do well with numbers.
These are the points I'm arguing, because the others, with some minor disagreements, I do actually agree with.
I love you Mr. B. I have so much fun watching your videos.
Glad you like them!
@@RedPenLogic I don't like them..... I love them!
😂😂😂 yes, Mike's videos are long but he naturally speaks fast when teaching😂😂😂 thanks for entertaining everyone today lols
Since you both completed the challenge with 0:01 left, I’m gonna declare Mike the winner because his overall video was a minute less than Mr. B’s. (Though extra points to Mr. B for his fallacy counter.)
....and his inimitable eyebrow!!!
I love this! Ohmyggaash huhuhuhuhu ❤❤❤... Mike Winger and Mr. B!? Love it!
I never understood Atheist’s desire to “disprove” God. His existence isn’t a matter of prove or disprove. It’s heavily personal and to try to disprove His existence to a believer really is just massively disrespectful. It does however give our Theologians something do.
Some people are truth seekers, and whether there is a God or not is pretty important. I was raised Christian and used to be devout. I thought if God were true then science would show that. However science and religion don't line up.
But if there was a God sending people to hell, I think it's pretty wise to make sure you're right in not believing. If you're not interested in truth than believe whatever you want. I'm interested in why you think someone searching for truth is disrespectful.
Atheists don't have a desire to disprove god. We aren't convinced by your low IQ reasoning and lack of evidence that your god exists. But you then try to affect our lives based on your religion so we are forced to reject you which hurts your feefees. If theologians want something to do they could provide any evidence that their god is real. For now a theologian has the same qualifications as the guy who takes your order at Wendy's they just have a way easier life.
@@187mako1977 facepalm
@@bscroll very insightful comment here.
I would reply to to second point with the following: if you were born into a Chinese family, you would be an atheist, or a secular huminist if you were born into a family in sweden
I have both a Chinese and a Swedish friend. I met them in church...
@@bazookajoe-u2w the point in hand is that the argument is not only invalid due to Christian minorities is said countries but it can be flipped back onto them
Also, if it were strictly true, then no one would ever convert from one faith to another. So it is false at first blush.
Oh my gosh I cant believe yall know each other!!!! This video brought joy to my heart!
Good job to both of you 👍😊👏
All Glory to our Great Triune God !
I used fallacies to destroy the fallacies
I LOVE THIS SOOO MUCH! ALMIGHTY bless you all!
This Brien guy has to be a troll 😭
interesting that you both invoked Theistic evolution to reject #10. I would've just said "Yeah evolution actually isn't proven." and left it at that. Actually what I usually do is point out that "Evolution" is an equivocation fallacy that confuses the concepts of Micro- and Macro- evolution. Let me elaborate:
Microevolution (Change within the bounds of a species) is otherwise known as Natural Selection, and is a reasonably reliable scientific principle. i.e. it has been "proven." Additionally, it poses no threat to Biblical Christianity.
Macroevolution (One species changing to another) is what most people think of when they hear the word "evolution." There is little to no evidence this could feasibly happen.
Additionally, Micro- and Macro- evolution work on separate "engines" if you will. Microevolution operates by differential reproduction, and results in loss of genetic traits from a certain population.
Macroevolution, on the other hand, operates (supposedly) by mutations, and results in an addition of genetic traits to a population. This engine has a lot of problems, but for now suffice to say Macroevolution doesn't work.
The equivocation comes in when atheists say "Evolution is proven" and they lump Macro- and Micro- evolution together into one term.
Well said, my thoughts exactly. Probably rushed it to make the time
I always put forward that, whether Evolution is true or untrue, it doesn't disprove Intelligent Design.
In fact, IF Evolution is true, it would NECESSITATE intelligent design in order for the Chaos to be reigned back into Order and the ultimate culmination of the Human Being, with conscience and conscious thought...
You do have longer vids! Make MORE. I like the 2-3 min ones but I like to hear more on many issues, 6-8 can still usually hold most people's attention.
#9 in an atheistic worldview, how can he substantiate a “mistake”? Seriously, if all that exists is matter chaotically bumping into matter and having chemical reactions, then how does the idea of a “mistake” fit in? A “mistake” is an immaterial category and he can only claim that immaterial things exist if he borrows from God to get there...so once again, the atheist has proven God’s existence within his own wording of the question.
"Let me point out fallacies, by comiting even MORE fallacies!"
Weißte Bescheid!
What fallacy?
@@easy8690 Don't act as if you care. All you do is plug your ears and scream lalalalalala!
@@bladerunner3314 not answering is on the same level of closing your ears and singing
@@evilspongebobballoon You mean like believers do all the time? Cope harder, snowflake.
@@bladerunner3314Typical Reddit Atheist cares about making baseless insults than having an intelligent discussion.😂😂😂. I will suggest you to have a therapy session with Jesus Christ, because he has always been waiting to greet you with open arms.
Many of us needed this video, thank you! 🙌
😂 I am a Christian and I can’t imagine arguing like the atheist in this video. Coz it is like me arguing:
10 ways to “prove” that God does exist. 😮
1. The fact that there’s the Bible telling you that God exists proves that there is a God. Because if God exists God would want to give you a special revelation for His existence! 😎😎😎 (lol)
2. A belief in that there is no God is simple geography. Being raised in an atheistic home determines that you believe there is no God. So obviously this means atheism is false guys! 🤩🥳
3. There was no time before the Big Bang, so how did the Big Bang begin to happen out of a state of literal no time? God did it guys! Trust me coz I totally understand how the Big Bang works! 🤯🦄
4. Evolution definitely did not happen because there were other older theories on how life came into being guys! We can debunk the evolution the same way we can debunk those previous theories! Just trust me bro! 😊
5. If the Universe is such a cruel place, why do I feel so happy then! The fact a lot of people are so happy means a God who wants me to be happy exists 😗🔥
6. The atheists always say “oh my G”, so that must mean that God exists!!! 🤫
7. There’s no evidence that spiritual beings do not exist, so we can conclude they exist!!! 😍🤪🥸
8. There’s no such thing as “nothing” except before the Big Bang there was “nothing”! So God made the universe out of it! 🥶🥶🥶
9. This is definitely a finely tuned universe, look at how I can eat delicious foods and drink water 😍🥰
10. Evolution is proven true but it could not have happened without God!!! 🤨🤪
This is just a joke guys. Some parts of the list aren’t direct parallels to the original comment of that atheist. I tried to be creative and come up with the worst arguments for God’s existence possible so that I can torture my fellow atheists with bad logic this time!