The Easiest Way To Detect Covert Narcissism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Narcissism consists of several primary traits, and some narcissists are so overt in displaying them that they leave little doubt about their leanings. But, as Dr. Les Carter points out, many narcissists are quite covert in their patterns. You may not see it right away. So to assist you in determining the potential for covert narcissism, he clarifies one major pattern that is always present.
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It's almost like narcissists are underdeveloped, emotionally stunted, "arrested toddlers." A lot of their behavior is so childish - throwing tantrums, picking fights, bullying, etc. Interacting with them leaves me feeling like I've just dealt with an entirely different species, one that has a completely different perception of reality.
Yes, amazingly true. Dr. C
Perfect description.
Funny you mention ALL that Professor Sam Vaknin on TH-cam says is exactly what they are arrested developmentally they are infantile, people with shattered foundations…. They put you in a parent/lover seat and then try to take you apart because they are confused by their attraction to you they cannot see you as equal. Instead have adult attraction to you but have a broken child within them, which you then automatically involuntarily slid into their parent…. It’s Very weird. You should check Vaknin out. You’d feel totally validated!
I don't know how to make friends and I'm so old now 51 with no husband, or extended family. all I have is my dog. I need to join a group or get a hobby but I am so broken and now I'm back in a situation where I'm caring for my elderly narcissistic father. my life is a mess. I've gone no contact with him so many times 4 years at a time but yet here I am. I am seeking some counseling and have gotten on antidepressants so I guess that's good.
@@bohunkjunk2514 if it makes you feel any better, I’m in a very similar boat. Same age as you, no spouse, caregiver to my elderly N mom who I have been estranged from off & on all my life. I stay sane through my various artistic pursuits. I also constantly remind myself that I don’t have to let her have emotional power over me. Remind yourself that no circumstance is forever and try to take as many long walks as you can! Wishing you the best.
Some are almost impossible to detect. If you criticize them, they don’t go into a rage outwardly, but instead plot passive aggressive forms of revenge. They can feign empathy and even pretend to be listening to you when they are actually ignoring you. They can be extremely generous and use money to control the victim. The first thing you will notice is that they don’t really seem listen when you speak. They will act tired or distracted and only perk up when the topic relates to them. Second, they don’t cheer when you win. If you have an accomplishment, they will try to minimize it and change the subject. Any qualities that makes you special or unique will be ignored. You will feel you must keep positive aspects of yourself hidden to maintain the relationship.
I remember when I was trying to save my marriage. We were up till 2am talking and he seemed to understand everything I said. The next day he got up in such a mood, you wouldn't think we'd had any sort of a conversation. Also I was sleep deprived with 2 young children. The divorce happened 😊
Yes! It took years for me to piece together the passive aggressive revenge ! So subtle and if if I questioned anything..he get defensive and blame me. I never new the depths of his resentment of me. All while keeping his good guy mask on.
Damn straight. Whenever I was excited, I was told "Ok, can you calm down?" Nope, sure can't. That's what happiness feels like.
What I have noticed is that they break away from the convo the moment it is not pumping them up. This includes convos that would appear outwardly to be ones of interest to the covert.
For coverts and overts: go Grey Rock. They will find other objects -- which is what people are to narcissists.
Your worst impulse is to educate/ correct/ expose them. That's dynamite. Just don't !
@@davidhimmelsbach557 You're so right. It's instinct to want to
confront them. It's useless. Don't cast your pearls at swine... 🙏
Anyone else feel like there’s an over abundance of people with these traits? Sure makes me want to continue on in my own healing journey and set healthy boundaries. Seriously, I’m praying for people who find themselves here, listening to these key pieces of insightful information. 💝
To me the most astonishing part was when I saw that I had to heal from a relationship with one narcissist, only to see that many more narcissists cross my path. Maybe I attract them.
@@cfjohnson7369 No its not you, they be created for the end times🌼they be fallen, not you. keep your head up🌹
Way too many...
@@cfjohnson7369 I think you’re attracting more because the universe is testing your boundaries. Testing to see if you will put all your lessons and self-healing into practice ❤️
Sad...real sad.
The small smirk when something bad happens to you.
1000% see it
@@nishakuttyphoto absolutely! When you notice it for the first time it’s horrifying! The realization that you are living with evil. And yet you still justify that evil smirk somehow.
@@locsta409 so true, its the justication that keeps us stuck.
I’m crying because I thought I was going crazy every time I see it!
Totally.
To me the easiest way to detect them is the absence of them saying anything negative about themselves.
Mine goes far out of his way to appear humble, unselfish and kind. Yet, once you know him, it's ALL about him and his feelings.
Mine will say - "admit" - that he has an anger issue, but 1) that it only occurs with me (thereby implying that I am the problem and just know how to trigger him,) and 2) expects that because he has stated that he knows he has this anger problem, that the admission, in itself, is all that he has to do about it. Like it should be acceptable now that he has "admitted" it, it's just "who he is."
@@roselisembee2333 same
It's always someone else's fault. Pass the blame. No accountability. This is their game.
And they never address what you say directly... they ignore it and keep going with their tirade and victimization boo hoo the entire world is attacking me!
1000%
Ohhh they never take responsibility and accountability, its always someone else's fault!
IKR! The eternal victim who is never understood or appreciated by people who owe them so much.
My step daddddddddd 100%
Not cheering or being genuinely happy for you when you succeed is a huge sign of narcissism.
Oh mannnn😬😧I always wondered “just why can’t you be happy for me? For once….” And when things went painful & wrong for me.. they would kick their heels with joy & smugness
I opened for a famous legendary musician. Played solo. After my set. She just frowned and said “I’m tired”. It was 11 pm. On a Saturday. She was always tired when the focus wasn’t on her pleasure. Not too tired to drive to another city and screw people tho.
you might notice it with other people. like you give them good news about another person and their energy doesn't go up. they almost look disappointed. and they'll say "oh great."
We called that haters or jealousy 😂
Especially f what your doing is life changing for the positive. They absolutely loath anyone who’s taking positive personal/ spiritual steps forward. Absolutely hate peeps n Recovery. They love to once people who just got up in life back down
Can you imagine how lonely it is being one of these creatures? They have to lie to and to keep secrets from even their closest friends, a spouse, children, everyone, in order to feel powerful and that they 'won'. That means they are not truly connected to anyone, ever. What a horrible, unbearable existence. No wonder they're the most miserable people on earth.
Apparently none of it is on a conscious level. They are completely oblivious.
I've actually contemplated this a lot. My narcissist could have had wonderful, fulfilling, deeply meaningful relationships with my children. They have grown into wonderful adults who I love spending all of my time with. My narcissistic parent is in their 80s and they have missed all the meaning of life and living because they feel nothing. They don't feel beautiful sunsets. They don't feel the love of a dog. They never have love for the sake of loving. "Love" is a scheme to get what they want and nothing else matters. My narcissist has missed living, missed everything. Sad really, to never really love, feel empathy, feel compassion. What's the point then?
The aging narc lives a brutal reality, and ime, just gets worse.
I imagine it's like holding your hand on a hot stove for years, and getting more and more angry at everyone that approaches the stove. After so many years, hardly anyone approaches, and God help those who do.
So very true!
@@suesilva5252 that’s what blows me away - how can anyone be that disconnected?
One big hint for your detection radar: They don't share meaningful experiences, unless it is how they have been victimized or beat someone.
Wow. This is so insightful. It's like I knew it but also didn't know it consciously. Thanks for pointing that out!
So very true. They are so consumed with their own narrative and past traumas. It's like they are stuck on repeat.
@@hollystevens5905 spot on.
100%
In hindsight, you are exactly right! Note to self, watch out for this too.
The one GIANT thing I overlooked is:
When you are down, they are up.
When you are up, they are down.
YOUR HAPPINESS IS TRIGGERING TO THEM.
It's so subtle and unnoticeable at first because you just try and cheer them up, or stop being as happy/lively around them, because if you are they start avoiding you and giving you the cold shoulder. Before you know it, you're taking on their misery and they all of a sudden are happy as Larry.
They feel entitled to be happy so if you are happy they will ENVY you for it and covertly bring you down to get a boost
Its why they withdraw/withold eventually.
Had a neighbor like this. He'd instantly detect my mood and act accordingly. If I was light and happy, he'd become combative and disagreeable. It was like he was programmed, and he'd be my counterweight. Toward the end of the "friendship", when I was down (because of him, because of his put-downs and outright insults), he'd act all light-hearted like I was being too serious. The last time I met him, I called him out so eloquently on EVERYTHING, he basically buffer overflowed. He tried every tactic, he even right on the spot made up a rumor about me that the whole neighborhood was in on. I laughed. He had nothing, his hand was weak, I truly revealed the shell of a person he was, and I told him we were through as "friends". A very satisfying day.
Very true.
@@futureofmoney3527 ugh...to have to do all that work for a mere neighbor. Good riddance.
wow that is a good point ... so bizarre
People tell you who they are, believe them the first time. Trust your gut.
It is "When people tell you who they are…" And it is not you who said it, it was Maya Angelou.
@@christophera3330 I didn’t make the claim that “I said it”, as I know Maya Angelou is the originator you are making that claim of me. I mean if you want to go this route I’m all in. So, I was already paraphrasing this quote as Dr. Angelou actually said “WHEN people SHOW you who they are…”
You are seriously going to comment just to nit pick a person on not using quotations? Why not comment on the incorrect quote? Why did you not reference Dr. Angelou with her hard earned honorific? Geez.
Bored? Remember Christopher it’s Dr. Maya Angelou.
Cheers.
@@christophera3330 Yeah ok but there’s no need for that. Plenty of people have come up with variations on their own, it’s not that big a stretch.
'I'm used to getting my own way' was the one I foolishly chose to ignore. Almost ten years and a large chunk of my mental well-being down the f'ing toilet.
Man .. my first memory in life is my mom throwing me against the wall when I was 2.
Im 37 now and I’m just clueing in that she told me who she was the first time..
There is a hidden agenda behind their sympathetic seeking facade. Self-serving is their only goal
You should copyright this - it sums up the whole thing
So true. And if in a family or work situation, they will often undermine you with others behind your back if it gets them something they want. What’s in it for me is the constant preoccupation
Exactly - I've found that the Overt/Vulnerable have the same goals - they just go about it differently. The Vulnerable you can't see for some time - it only surfaces when they experience a sh*tstorm (usually of their own doing) - then you see how they handle it - or don't. The excuses, the projecting, their NEVER taking accountability for their part in it. The, "I'm a good person" when you start questioning their excuses (that never seem to hold water).
Hidden agenda is right. Sympathetic seeking or offering us sympathy while being chameleon like to only their own advantage.
It's spooky to watch them do this with new people. Usually the newbies figure it out and avoid the Whiner.
I can't afford a therapist. You're doing God's work for my mind and soul. Coming from a mama of 4.
I know right. Dr Carter and a few others saved my life. Bless
You MUST watch Dr Ramani's channel...she is excellent at explaining and a true expert on the subject...she has made it her life's work.
Hang in there! Btw. Try crappy childhood fairy for good practical solutions on healing.
@@clairewolf6013 Yes she's excellent and that is what's needed -good solutions on healing.
@@now591 with all the mental health resources regarding narcissism and its effects on people, there aren't enough online resources to help with the recovery people need to experience once they end such relationships. I think there is a lot PTSD, guilt, shame and fear associated with the aftermath. how about some help with that from all the mental health professionals.
You have described my husband (of 40 years) to a "T." Everyone thinks he's such a wonderful guy. A strong Christian. A family man. Meanwhile I spent decades so confused because he talks the talk, but with me he absolutely didn't walk the walk. We have 4 children and I often felt like I was raising them alone because he was never around. Off doing the things he enjoyed doing while I was a stay at home mom trying to keep my head above water. I read all the books about how to be a good Christian wife, but it didn't matter because nothing I ever did was good enough for him. Just when I'd think maybe we'd made some headway in our relationship, he'd move the goal posts. After 25 years of being abused emotionally and mentally I withdrew and then he really doubled down and even slandered me to my kids and some friends. There's a lot more I could say, but bottom line is now I do me. I like myself and I will never, ever, again change for him. Not even one tiny bit. Of course it's driving him crazy, and being married to him is a nightmare sometimes, but I focus on my kids and grandkids and a few close friends. I truly didn't understand covert narcissism when I met and married him, but I do now.
Forbearance, forgiveness, long-suffering, helpmate.... all a con to keep women in their place.
I always wondered why it was so important to keep people in their place.
Good for you!! These people are chameleons
Sorry you dealt with that! Honestly…religion is not, I repeat, NOT an excuse to be controlling and stuff. Nothing really is an a good excuse for it. I’m not religious, but I’m saying it.
When I first read your reply I thought I had written it. For me it’s been over 40 years, I knew something wasn’t right but I could not for the life of me figure out what. His true colors began to show when we had children, I was his supply and now all my attention was not on him. I was also a stay at home mom when they were young, his work was his escape, we were not a priority, and I raised them without any help from him. He was always gone for work, which was a good thing, and I ran the household on my own. He was an uninvolved dad, but tried to take all the credit for raising two great boys! Therapy has helped me so much, he knows I don’t put up with his crap anymore, and I gray rock him most of the time. His health is failing, and I’ve decided I will not be his nurse and caregiver. When the time comes, it’s the nursing home for him. The problem I’m having is I don’t trust what he says about his memory, forgetfulness, or his state of mind. Is he still acting, trying to manipulate me, doing these things for attention? He has lied, exaggerated, made up things for my sympathy that I don’t trust anything he tells me. I will never be controlled and disrespected by him anymore. I deserve better.
…..but I do now.
Seasoned divorce lawyer here. Terrific video! Vet very carefully before marriage! It will keep you out of my office and out of family court. Run from a narcissist!
You are a very good lawyer! Busy job for you, so much divorce and narcissism these days. I dont remember this being so bad two decades or so ago. I think its social media. What are your observations about why so many are divorcing?
@@Sarahizahhsum Agree!
Exactly, they NEVER change no matter what they say. It just gets worse
Just say NO to them and express your own opinion and you will immediately know... They can't leave it at that. Their rage is just one thing but they show you the whole arsenal: rediscussing your boundaries, trying to convince you, making you feel guilty, scapegoating, punishing, etc.
And then you know that! There's no doubt!
'NO' is a complete sentence, even if it's a short one and my boundaries are non-negotiable. That's the lesson I've learnt.
That's my mother spot on with exactly what you've said. To add salt to injury, she's also a well like Christian lady who just loves everybody! Smh...
@@natinamack5123 Oh my God, a religious narcissist! They are the worst kind together with communal narcissists...
“No is a complete sentence” is my mantra these days.
Feeling of guilt, gaslighting / scapegoating, punishing was the way I was controlled and totally confused. Did you ever notice that they are happiest (in th erelationship) when you are at your lowest?
@@snoozers5
Yes, i have noticed.
Narcissists don't do nice things for people altruistically, they do it for the adoration they need for themselves. Altruism requires no such adoration.
For manipulative reasons
Also: they are always the victim. I found this shocking to watch. They never take responsability. Someone (or somewhat) else always did it. Is this your experience too?
This is so true! The only time they aren’t the victim is when they make themselves out to be the “hero” of the story… (usually by taking credit for the things other people actually did)
Ha! Yes, never ever took responsibility-EVER.
and they also take credit for something that they most def did not do. try faking that you don't remember whether a certain chore is done or not, while you actually know you did it,meaning-it is done, and they'll explicitly and naively lie to you they themselves did it. it's beyond ridiculous.
They refuse help and keep crying your ears full with their believes and get angry when you are tired of it.
For sure. In fact they’ll reverse the situation and make the totally innocent person (usually their favorite target) look like the guilty one when it was clearly them all the time. It’s shocking when it happens to me. I couldn’t even speak when my parents were doing it but there’s different reasons for that including they blatantly wouldn’t allow me to. I was dumbfounded!
“No” is a complete sentence. I learned that one recently. I started to immediately reject anyone I was dating that wasn’t kind. And I practiced rejecting anything that wasn’t loving. After a short time, a true sweet man walked into my life. Ladies, if you have a propensity of attracting a narcissist or addict, go ahead and trying being a little selfish. Just try it. For us over-givers what feels selfish to us is really (probably) just strong boundaries.
TRUTH! This needs to be a top comment.
@@sarahfrasher3513 thank you!
Thank you for the advice👌☺️❤️
This is golden! Thank you :-))))
@@mercyrahma9501 💜
I used to tell him he just likes “the sound of his voice” because he went on and on, and there was only room for “his truth”. No self reflection, no insight
zero self reflection
@@monicaduby1362 19 years of torment. He used to wait for me to get to the house and go absolutely stark raving batty locomotive steam blowing faaaaREAKKK til I lost my marbles and threw it tight back. Yeah all the yrs came to a foamy boil I just talked and talked one thing led to another.,, when I was the only one talking he’d have his iPad on record to call family etc making me out to be the cheater. Haaa!
Before he hot sick I met a longtime best friend that lives several blocks down the street. After cmng home from the hospital he has his best frd here after18 yrs if never ‘seen’them together!
O dear lawd he turned into someone I didn’t recognize. Extremely freaked me out , to see he was definitely playing the female role and Buster the dude. It’s been nearly a yr and I feel frozen. I must move forward
PTSD is real.
These ppl are snakes
Similar to the enemy who comes to STEAL KILL DESTROY
Won’t stop til defeated. Forget about the 200 passing go
RUNNNNNN!!!!!!
When you say no and they go into rage, shaming and blaming. When they reveal themselves to be judgemental and controlling. I trust my gut and run.
sometimes they use the silent treatment in the hopes that we will miss them and reach out!!! listening to Dr.Carter's videos alerted me to the "manipulation" they use and I am so happy to be rid of the toxicity in my life and let them think it was their idea. UGH gross people!!!
It’s not always that simple
@@laura2842 gross is the right word. Sadly, this is my mother.
Wise Yoda, mmm Very Wise!!! “Help you I will”, is what they say. Help you, I will…. We need to question what and why.
damn! wish I had done that myself.
End the relationship/friendship/whatever ASAP. You can’t fix them because they don’t want to be fixed. Only hurt and turmoil is guaranteed. Covert narcs are the absolute worst.
So true
Pure evil. They are possessed.
Very true, this how they discard you when your friend.
Very rude too.😮
Being with a covert is like a slow slow burn, piece by piece they try to destroy you. They are the most difficult personality disorder to figure out .
You can't fix them because, in their own minds, they are perfect.
There is a fine art to dealing with this kind of person. The first step is learning and educating yourself on the narcissist and their tactics. At that point of awakening, it is a huge win for the victim or codependent to finally understand all of the confusion and chaos the narcissist has caused throughout their time together. Then, the great challenge is going about the usual exchanges with the new found knowledge, avoiding the temptation of trying to educate the narcissist on what you have learned, but instead going about it with a quiet wisdom and the ability to defend one's boundaries without explaining or justifying oneself. No matter how wise or awakened you have become to the narcissist tactics, they will never hear you on it or understand why they need to change. Resist the urge to try to teach them what you have learned because the narcissist is not a teachable person. They will continue to use the very same tactics against you to damage you despite how profoundly educated you have become. Keep your boundaries and your peace to yourself. Do not expose your new knowledge, instead play them, let them think they have won. But know deep down that the victory is yours.
gracias kate: helpful info here.
looking to make the *'discard'* my spouses 💡 idea 1st.
EXCELLENT advice and insights!
Well stated! I am currently honing my skills on this.
So exactly true. Been doing this 5 years and its so tempting to scream narcissist at them but any show of emotion is what they like so im working on that 1!!
I dare say the narcissist DOES learn, but only more slick and crafty ways to manipulate.
Another trait I’ve recognized in narcissists is that when they get angry with you, it’s a different kind of anger than you might have seen before. It’s like a curtain drops over their eyes. Their eyes become cloudy, and there is a rage that almost causes their skin to bubble. That only needs to happen once or twice before your palms begin to sweat whenever they call or come over. Because you never know what will set it off.
Alot of these videos talk about narcissistic partners, but there are narcissistic adult children, narcissistic stepchildren, narcissistic in-laws-people that you can’t just walk away from. To me that’s the real difficulty. Having a narcissist in your life that you can’t just dump.
But you can have less to do with them. Heartbreaking as it is Ive done that with one of my adult siblings. Focus on what you need out of your life to keep you well 👍
So true darling. Best to you.
Yes you can. Just don't interact with them.
I'm only looking for the family advice
In low doses, they are loads of fun. Spend considerable time with them and you'll see Jekyll and Hyde appear. Flirtatious, charming, confident and intelligent becomes: Controlling, manipulative, demanding and condescending. I've known SO many... I swear I feel like I have the antibodies now!
Dad is not fun at all!
I dated one for 2.5 years. Whatever you do in your life, don't date one, don't be friends with one, and I'm sorry for anyone who happened to marry one.
I married one. You're right. it's very hard to be a prop and maintain one's self respect and self love. I'm working on and exit
Yes, I married one to my regret! She is a Hollywood quality actress who didn't show her true self for 5 years until her overwhelming need to be an inferior victim was revealed, but then she worked very hard to become that. I would never allow her to take away my self-respect and in the process, I removed her supply. She is vindictive and brings up both real and imagined wrongs from 20 years past whenever he wants to accuse me of something. Coverts are the worse kind of narcissists as they don't show their true selves until they have their barbed hooks into someone.
My mother is one! The best day of my life is when she will take her last breath!
@@nwatson2773 I didn’t know people like this existed years ago when I happened to date one. I can’t imagine having to grow up with a mother that has these tendencies.
@@marcusarelius last yr marked 18-19 yrs he passed away and the mess that was in despicable and could never get worse., the sister is just like him. No will? Lies and destruction is their path-
Womanizer with best friend and social media platforms of porn all over the world. Garosssss!!!
unthinkable acts! Then I think, from childhood trauma to ‘familiarity’ ?
Sheesh! My brain must stop the Rolodex of images . He was s now at rest and I’m Exhausted. He said to have had me in his will
His sis said there wasn’t one-
This disease runs rampant through the bloodline.
Blessings (:
they act bored when you try to have a pleasant conversation and they force laughter. biggest red flags.
Lol crazy
OMG!! How true, especially the forced laughter, my narc ex husband used to do it all the time… it used to drive me up the wall… so irritating😡😡
@@user-kf3yz7so6q it's because they dont find anything really funny (especially something they did not say) but they know they are supposed to laugh to fit in, so it always comes out forced, fake and obvious. i've known like 5 different ones do that shoulder shrug laugh thing (like instead of laughing they do a quick shrug), so anooying
My narcissistic dad expects me to put and shut up; that's not happening. His projection, he's not perfect, so why is he so nitpicky and never pleased. I gave up on his b.s. I'm not impressed by him. No one is at his beck and call, he certainly isn't for me. except his equally narcissistic brother, ( 2 out of four are). They are especially obnoxious and hate women. They're pathetic excuses for a father, uncles and men, human beings. I have nil to contact with him since Easter. I am doing better without his horrible influence! The the worst of the three. When I complain about anything, he replies with "tough shit." What a jerkwad! I deserve a better father! He barely does the minimum and resents doing that. What a loser! Dad says I need his permission to speak to his family. I'm 60, I don't want or need his permission. I tell the truth, he doesn't like it. Too bad for him. I'm not lying so he can feel good or superior, he certainly hasn't earned the right to demand me to ask his permission. He projects his hatred of women onto me. He takes no responsibility. He's pathetic, I deserve better!
Im bout to be homeless because of being spineless my whole life and being drained by negative, controlling people.
This is so spot-on. The public and private persona really hit home. A street angel, home devil.
I called him "stage" Bob and "off stage" Bob. He'd come off stage, take off his costume, and that's who I lived with.
When living with the covert narcissist, you learn to never show the outside world what goes on behind closed doors.
relationships only continue with a narcissist for as long as you're willing to put yourself last.
They'll make you alone to torture you more,and even if you are tortured ,nobody will be left to listen ur genuine story .
Dad pretends to be such a great father; lies!
Having dealt with a narcissistic person is very difficult. But it is the lesson of a lifetime!
I have left them all and there is no room for any of them in my life. Been there and done that!
Let me guess family 🤔
You have successfully leveled up. Kudos!
It sure does leave you a skeptic for ever finding love again. My radar goes up immediately when I sense something is off now.
@@wombal177jim - Yes - a family member. Only a few of us have really seen it! They cover their tracks to try to look like the good guy! We simply cannot let anybody abuse us - no one! No family member or anyone. We got to take our power back!
I'm not in contact with my narcissistic, misogynistic and sadistic father, he's lazy, too. I won't waste my time chasing after him; he's not that important to bother with. He tramples on my boundaries and finds that humorous, he's pathetic!
When Dr Carter say these beautiful words: "I want you to be a person of...peace", I take a deep, deep breath and feel completely relaxed - and could go to sleep right here on my computer. After all years of manipulation, lies and abuse, I'm so exhausted I could collaps anywhere - and sleep for onehundred years. But it feels good!
And it's true, Annie. I want you to find peace. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Thank you so much Dr.C.
@Krishna Patel live in the west first, then decide and compare.
Indian religions are deeply spiritual. They invented the concept of Karma ! They have lower rates of child abuse, narcissism and sociopathy. Their family values are still good. Learn about Nyaya philosophy. It is the antidote to narcissism!
@@Dhruv_Dogra
They don’t have less abuse and narcissism! They just don’t discuss their problems and make them as public as people in the West do
I know what you mean. He isn’t grinding an ax, and his detailed knowledge of what we need to hear heals.
It’s going to take time but finally it’s feeling like I might find closure...without being future fakes into oblivion.
Wishing you the best overcoming the struggle. I know it is real. 💛. PS: sleep is good imho
Since I've been recovering from my 8 year relationship with a malignant covert woman, I've been trying different strategies in dating to detect narcissists. So far, the best one I've found is to set a minor boundary. When they fight the boundary, or just ignore it, then I wish them the best and nope the hell out.
Can you provide an example?
I love that saying nope the hell out. I want to put that on a t-shirt.
I have invested 37 years before seeing the full picture.(worked different shifts ).Weary now.
@@banstee I think an easy one would be 'I don't eat sugar' or 'I don't like crowded busy places' and see what happens.
@@banstee For example, it takes her three days to answer an email but gets upset if it takes me more than 12 hours. noped the heck out of that one.
Also when they apologize they will say..I'm sorry you feel that way. NOT.. im sorry i made you feel that way. Its unnerving
Growing up in a narcissistic household I've learned to read narcissists fairly quickly and make a point of keeping them at a distance. I like to say all narcissists operate from the same cheap 10 page how to be a narcissist handbook, different story but all the same tactics.
Yup. The veil gets lifted. And you see them. From then on you can't unsee that world. And can sniff a lie out from the other side of the country.
Well it’s nice for you that you could “read them”, some of us got stuck being blindsided because it became so familiar. Sigh
@@TiffyAlwaysBlissy thanks for the outline...rough isn't it
I have voluntarily accepted/tolerated a garden variety narcissist in my life for many years, and endured some others in the work environment. I fully believed I could spot one in a heartbeat and be able to automatically put the shields up when encountering one.
Surprise! Little did I know there were variations on that theme. Got suckered in by someone I'm now convinced is the covert type (if not an actual sociopath. I mean at least a regular narcissist can occasionally be made to feel guilty & will grudgingly give a little something in return, even if you're expected to be forever grateful for such small favors.)
Deep down I knew something was very wrong, but I wanted SO much to believe in him; that he was just a poor abused victim of circumstances who truly loved me and wanted to make a better life for himself. I foolishly believed all his promises & words of love, ignored the red flags and kept giving more in trying to help him; more of myself & my resources, more chances to prove himself. In the end he never kept a single promise( looking back on it, even for the most modest of requests), took me for just about everything I had, then disappeared. Turned out to be a con artist & common thief. And I thought he was much too young to have gained such conniving, manipulative skills ! Stupid me. I feel like such a fool, so ashamed of myself. Never again.
Caution and Boundaries ladies and gentlemen. Your instincts are there for a reason. Never NEVER, EVER ignore them !
Excellent!!
For me, the scariest thing is that they believe their public persona, not the private one. My mother quoted her ‘unconditional love and support’ to me, at the same time as blackmailing, blaming and shaming me. She is convinced she’s a great mum. Ugh.
Snap, also requiring constant validation of being a great mum, when all along she was terrible. I never did validate much, just told her healthy people just don’t require that much validation.
@@fk3972 this made me laugh! How did she like you pointing out healthy people don’t need validation?? Deaf ears, anger or deflection I’m guessing? Oh boy, but I am sorry you’re in the same boat.
Mine is the same😳
@@stealthwarrior5768 sorry to hear that. We’re with you though 🙂
@@stealthwarrior5768 mines dead...woohoo!
I was married to a covert narcissist for 28 years. He was so charming and gentle on the surface that everyone thought he was wonderful. Because I was unhappy I immediately looked bad- "Why are you complaining when you have such a wonderful hard working husband?" He had me thinking there was something really wrong with me and used to say so until I believed him. He controlled my life in every detail, hair, clothes, activity, thinking and although he would pay for things for me I had no money of my own as he took my wage or when I worked for him he didn't pay me. Eventually I became part of a really good religious group which involved meditation and he didn't know what to do. He knew they would find him out if he joined in but also wanted to look good in front of them, so he kept his distance and gave them donations (which I didn't have the money to give) but then when he got cancer and was dying he joined them and was burried there with full honours, thus taking even that away from me. I couldn't leave because I had three children and I knew he would turn them against me if I tried and he would bring in all the people he had charmed like my parents, my only friend and then leave me destitute. He has been dead 16 years now but I still cannot trust myself with another relationship. I wish I had known about narcissists long ago!
Julie Sheard . . . I identify fully with what you shared. I was married for 32 years to a passive aggressive, covert narcissist but, sadly, I did not know this until after we divorced. I was the one who ended the marriage; I didn't know what I know now; I just knew our marriage was not healthy, very toxic, and I very wasn't happy.
My gentle sharing with you would be to trust God for a kind, caring person in your life if you cannot trust yourself.
Thank you for your sharing. 💗
Julie Sheard, He has been gone many years now, and you are still here , still breathing and living. Are you ever gonna believe in you again? You have learned so much over all the time you were together. Jesus heals the broken hearted and everything else . If you don't know the Lord , he is here and His' love will renew and restore you to be all you were created to be. Trust our Lord and trust yourself to live your life in awe and praise and Thanksgiving. I guess most of us here are no stranger to narc abuse but I don't want to loose who I am and lay down and die for someone who wouldn't couldn't or doesn't care about me.
@@joyceconnolly1065if she is not trusting herself, than she won't see the let's say, good person in front of her.
Come on. Buck up!! not all the men are like that. You could find a good one but you have to step out and decide to find one you can trust. You deserve to be happy.
What a nightmare you lived through. We know what it is like.....horrible. We have these Narc's on my side of the family and my husband's side. He is a real faithful man, kindhearted in every way. I too wish we had known about Narc's and would have maneuvered around them differently. It never changes. They don't change.
That's a pretty easy question that is simple to answer. Covert narcissists > they cannot accept the least bit of criticism of any sort and when confronted / threatened the narcissist will have an answer to absolutely everything you say or question the narcissist on.
Yes and the answer is NEVER that they might have been wrong or even that they might have even been just a little off base.
Dad blamed me for abusing me, what an asshole! Nil to contact with him. He's not worth the time.
@@jackilynpyzocha662 A narcissist's mentality is always " I'm right, you're wrong mentality" and research into narcissism shows that all narcissists really believe they always believe they are right no mater what.... so there is no point in even trying to argue any point or trying to reason with a narcissist.....
Call them out on a lie or gaslighting and watch out!! Questioning their motive or actions will bring out a screaming rage filled beast that will scare you.. it’s like they have an alter ego
I learned the hard way. Had one of those JBL speakers thrown at me by a friend. At the time I had no idea she was a narcissist and blamed it on the alcohol we were all consuming. After finding these videos I now realize she is textbook.
"I don't have to treat other people this way" or "I don't have the same problems with other people as I do with you." He was fun.
This is 100%. Once I was onto him well the flood gates opened on me. I used to say to my parents you only see one side of him. You should see how he treats me, when no one else is around. He screams at me, belittles me, ignores me, tells me what a horrible person I am, and on and on.
No one ever saw the other side of him and couldn’t believe that he actually treated me the way he did.
He presented himself as a kind, generous and honest.
Again, once I realized what I was dealing with and he knew it…the jig was up and he full on turned on me. He had no reason to pretend with me anymore and treated me worse than ever. I’m happy to say I’m finally free from him 100% but it was extremely difficult and painful. I had to mourn a person and a relationship that never really existed. It took me years…but I finally did it. I didn’t want to believe someone like this could actually behave this way, He is a shell of a person, like a robot. Presents only what he wants people to see, but underneath there is nothing there. It’s extremely sad.
"I had to mourn a person and a relationship that never really existed..."
That hit me hard.
Strength to you, and Strength to any and all who find resonance in that phrase...
@@raydurka This is the hardest part for me.
Stayce 751, You have described something very detailed there ? The fact that these sad people are empty ,theres no one home even though the lights on ? They steal from other peoples words ,acts and personality ,and call it their own ! Yet they believe their some kind of VIP ,?and they do it so convincingly dont they ? Their World is somewhere else that you cannot go it is frightening because they live the lie as well as lie continuosly to others ,it is Satanic in every way ?
It is truly a void in their eyes, as if they have no soul. When I was with my narc, it was like looking into the eyes of the devil himself.
@@raydurka "I had to mourn a person and a relationship that really never existed" good way to look at it. Just how to get past the narcissism, go no contact... With one car, it's hard. Then you're left with what now?at 64 i don't have years to spend on therapy, nor do I want to. Spent 6 years going nowhere....
Perfect explanation of a covert narcissist by Dr Carter. I'd also like to add passive aggression and silent treatment to that list, Thank you so much Dr C.
I withdraw from them when they're looking for a fight n trying to provoke a reaction. Then am accused of giving the silent treatment. You can never win with them.
Yes !!
In my marriage to a narc I would ask what I was doing that was causing him to be so angry. His response was typically, "Well, I could say something, but I won't ". When the marriage was ending, I pressed for an answer and the only thing that he could say was that I had stopped making him feel important. Hmm, so if I would have just stayed focused on making him feel good, everything would have been fine. It really became clear to me that being in a relationship with him was not give and take. It was just take and take. Thank you again Dr. C. Your input through these videos is truly a blessing.
They are the black hole that just can't be filled. Once you prop them up for one thing, it's on to the next. They are NEVER happy or content. They are just empty souls who constantly need to be filled up by external sources. If you're their supply - isn't it exhausting? I love Dr. C's way - the way he describes each thing and the examples are so spot on!
Very well said! This is the PERFECR description of my relationship with my dad then, unfortunately, my last relationship. These personalities are insatiable! Once you become educated on how they operate, there’s a sobering reality that almost makes you feel bad for them because their lack of self-awareness is their #1 downfall, unbeknownst to them.
Wjyd you cheat on me twice? Bc I didn't feel I was getting looked at with desire ...
The entitlement and superiority are the most sickening aspects of the narcissistic personality. When you quit propping up their egos, they go all out to get control again, enlisting others in their quest to get the feeling of superiority and power back. It's not happening anymore. It bothered me that I let myself be used like that until I realized that is how these people are, and it's no reflection on me.
"Establishing boundaries" doesnt help with these people, you can scream NO!!! in their ear and they still do what they want. And when you stop opening the door to them they stalk you for years. Its demonically evil.
What boundaries? They don't care. They hate the word " NO ", it makes them try harder to defy your view. It's such bizaar behavior that I don't feel I'm dealing with a mentally healthy person. There were times I start to ask if that person is autistic, because their level of comprehension doesn't make sense. Therefore, I find it easier to forgive because they have a mental disorder and don't even know it. "Father forgive them for they know NOT what they do."
Yes. I was over 30 years married to a covert narc before I realized what was going on and who they are. Then, when I started really investigating it, so much made sense and I started understanding what was going on and why they acted the way they do. Their 'persona' is the most important thing to them. They even believe their own lies - they live in an alternate reality and have an astonishing lack of self awareness. Pointing out inconsistencies etc is met with rage
They love showing everyone else in public that loving guy you fell for and then a few drinks later and they get you home behind closed doors and then booom out of the blue they demoralise you insult you and start accusing you for nothing, that’s a pattern I’ve seen so many times before and I don’t stand for it 💯
My mother treated me like her therapist since a young age. In my 40s, I had enough, broke down and snapped at her. Full crying breakdown. She stayed quiet then told me she has to get on the bus. She seems aware of feelings but just not mine.
comes to mind: they have no emotions, or feelings of *nurture* just *torture*
I hear you, Ruby. Me too.
@@lifewithapurpose237 they do but all fake snake. show time🌹
i went through that , in my 40s sat down with my mum to ask her to talk to me like an adult and not a naughty 13 year old and she immediatly cried like a little girl , till i backed off then she got angry and i thought , life is too short to be dealing with this sh*t
@@NOT_SURE.. holy cow! I had a similar run in with my mother recently! As I drove away frustrated, I realised that attempting to reason with her was utterly futile. Either I accept her as she is, or I don't. Not a great choice either way. But what can I do.
My mother was a very covert narcissist, I was her special target and she made sure no one was around when she would unleash her torture on me. She acted so differently when other people were around.
Absolutely, a freaking nightmare!! What pleases her one day, will never do for the next.😢
@@TurtleHillTx Absolutely! It was a constant tap dance trying to keep her happy and she never was happy.
I am sorry you experienced that. It might make it hard for you to relax and trust others.
Me too. I would feel repulsed when she took out her "martyrs loving mom" face when we meet other people and family members. She was so covert that even people close to her have a hard time pinpointing her toxicity and abuse. I don't bother telling anyone not even my siblings because I know no one will believe me. People that are blessed with great mothers can't comprehend that their are heartless mothers out there that are out to ruin their children's lives if they don't do exactly what they say.
@@cindyj5522 Definitely and it makes you an extremely skeptical person of everyone's motives even though most people don't mean any harm.
The main thing I've noticed about anyone manipulative is that they REALLY exaggerate their so called positive traits publicly.
Yep. My narc friend tried to act like he's laid back and easy going and any problem is because I take what he says wrong. He hides behind this and "breaking balls". If you don't agree w him 100% though he becomes super moody and attacks. He's anything but what he acts like he is.
They will drag the conversation into the weeds of their " specialty" just for attention.
that and they bring down others to prop themselves up
I am guessing you can detect them not just by their behavior, but by the feeling your arm is being twisted to do a favor you do not feel right about for someone you are not so sure of.
Used to get that from one of my best friends of ten years. I got played like a fiddle, and when I finally cottoned on after he escalated some disturbing psychological abuse, I dropped him like a hot potato and went full no contact. The guy was a picture perfect husband and father of adorable young kids. Never missed a Sunday church service. A true wolf in sheeps clothing.
Yes.
You feel this way because there's boundary violation going on.
They are very insidious so that we cant figure out that they are actually trying to violate our boundaries.
When a narcissist is not getting their own way you will see their true colours, lies, manipulation, anger, quarrels, the list is endless.
Yup, has no empathy and lacks any remorse. Has absolutely no ability to self reflect. If they do something they escape accountability by blaming it on you or accusing you of doing the same things even though you don’t. Definitely exaggerated their positives and minimizes their negatives.
This is so true. I knew if I had told anyone he was emotional abusing me, none of them would believe me. They thought he was such a great guy. He made sure he treated me good in front of other people. When the door closed, I was worthless. Our kids saw what was going on. So thankful I don't have to deal with that anymore.
I identified a narc by noticing his demeanor once we parted and he got in his car. His gushing “can’t be without you” nonsense seemed to IMMEDIATELY disappear once in his car. His body language, facial expression, everything was shifted … hmm.. as if the acting could stop. Also, they think they’re invisible in their cars 🤔. I’ve noticed that with multiple narcs.
And when they get tinted windows, they’re even more hidden.
Eye rolls I noticed
The boiling rage underneath and their need for sneaky revenge for whatever slight they perceive you may have caused.
They are calculating,patient,and never,ever forget.
And forget about talking things through,it’ll never,ever, happen,no matter how hard you try.
Yes, very calculating, patient, revengeful
Surviving covert narcissism has been one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.
It took years of therapy to realize what I went through.
To the others here, know it gets better, the trauma from it gets manageable.
I have been to war and yet it’s been harder to recover from the experience of being married to a narcissist than it has been to be under the constant threat of combat, with that, know how strong you are for overcoming.
You just confirmed that the effect of a war and effect of recovering from narc abuse is the same: a form of PTSD. Look up Prof. Sam Vaknin on this topic here on YT. I had no clue that I was going through PTSD after the covert narc, who ALMOST became my husband broke up with me, because I did not subscribe to his narrative.
Sometimes it does feel like a combat zone. Thank you for your service
Twice survived cancer and heroin addiction and my ex narc has been harder. Interesting to here a vet say the same thing about war! I guess at least the enemy doesn’t tell you they love you first.
I so get you. It took a lot and a while to accept and process that my own mom had done these things to me.
The most successful ones go undetected for years. The reason they go undetected is they tend to “choose” only one or two victims and then they only carry out their deception where no one else ever sees it. This is why the victim “seems” looney for saying “such things” about the covert who happens to be such a “great guy” or “great gal.” Becoming more SELF AWARE is the ONLY way to detect a covert. “To thine own self be true.”
True. I've been amazed at times at how stealth some can be.
@@SurvivingNarcissism Getting around to watching the video on my lunch hour, Dr.C… i so appreciate the way you word things… “i need you to prop me up” -yup! He actually told me once, “Why can’t you just approve me?! I just want your approval!” Hmmm well, let’s see… you want me to approve of your constant disapproval of me. Nope. That’s not happening, sir.
Wow.
Awesome input.
Consider me a fan.
Carry on.
@@AlwaysStampinVideos The same! "i just need your support ( to do things that will hurt you)"
Exactly !!!
Thank you - I married twice both narcissists & first husband launched a huge smear campaign against me for years, with my best friends even believing him until they watched & saw for themselves. I’m single & life is peaceful these days.
This really resonated with me. I remember in my first year of our 40 year marriage, wondering if he had multiple personalities. His voice even changed when Mr. Hyde came out, so unsettling. But I was very young, was still in a honeymoon phase, and thought maybe it was normal and just adapted to it. I wish I knew then, what I know now.
I've felt like I'm married to Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde many times over the past 26 yrs. Hindsight is 20/20 - but yes, I have the same wish.
OMG me too. It was my second marriage, and I had never dealt with this kind of abuse. The Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde, I never knew which one I would get when he came home from work!! And then there're so nice, it's unbelievable!!
@@marysuitto6963 Yes, they are “nice” just to set you up again. After a few times, it creeps you out when they are being “nice”. You think “oh no, here we go again”.
I referred to my ex as Mr. Hyde throughout the marriage.
I wish I had known about personality disorders, several years ago.
You described my husband perfectly. I have recently woken up to the truth and grieved for the “marriage”. I’m now trying to make my escape.
Hi, I might be able to help you with that in a civil and legal way. I mean that’s if you’d be interested
Good for you! My dad is the problem, he projects his blame onto me, he's narcissistic, misogynistic and sadistic, and immature/insecure! His ego needs attention; it's not worth wasting time on, he's never satisfied. I gave up on his nonsense as of Easter. So far, so good!
It’s hard to get rid of these people. They come around when they want something and if you don’t comply, they keep at you.
They also are incapable of saying “I’m sorry”. Throughout months of knowing him, not once could he say it.
Or you get a snide sorry,sorry,sorry!
Listen to your gut.... if you are scratching your head, wondering what is going on, feeling yucky or slimy, realizing that they are lying, afraid of confronting them... yup.... that's all you need... RUN
The trouble is, you can be invested before they show you their real self. The mask doesn’t slip until they feel they’ve secured you. For some it’s a rushed marriage with future faking in steroids. Go slow when you are in a euphoric state. If they are healthy, they will respect this. Go slow but without sharing any past trauma remember. “I’ll share that when I know you better,”
yep,dr.r says something like *" they will keep a lid on it* [..their other personsonality..] *until they can put a 💍 ring on it* 🖐"
YES, this. I wish I had known about this when I was 18. I just wanted a boyfriend, not a husband. Before I knew it, we were married....
Good advice
@@SurvivingNarcissism learned the hard way🙃
Meghan Markle comes to mind. Total fake.
Sometimes also "Foul-weather friend" -- they only want to hang out when you're in a bad situation, so they can "help" you and use that to feel good.
My dad doesn't want the truth about how badly he has treated me. I have told him, he said "tough shit", he is a piece of crap! He's sadistic, too.
This video described my marriage perfectly. Before the marriage I was love bombed and mirrored. The signs you talk about here came after marriage or at least became more noticeable. At the end it was overt, most likely because I went gray rock at the request of my doctor. I secretly started seeing a therapist towards the end of the marriage because I was convinced all our problems were because of me. I had to go secretly because the wife was against it. It was only 4 years of my life. I hope anyone in this situation gets the proper help. It helped me tremendously. Thank you for the videos. They have helped me not only understand relationships with people but have also helped me be more aware of myself. I believe we all have some narcissistic traits and to be aware of them is very helpful. Thank you again.
Trying to get help it hard.. some people
Never
See the dark side and they think your the mean one
@@Earthether Very true. I lost friends because of things that were said about me. When I was asked about it I wouldn't say anything bad about her and let them come to their own conclusion. Some people did see what was going on after she put them through the same cycle. The mask will slip eventually.
I am in 12 years of marriage...was taking and accepting whatever treatment or blame I got. But this year its like I have awoken from a deep slumber. I have realised no one has a right to control me unless I give them that right.
Very true, we do as Dr. Phill McGraw says.
But not as bad as a true narcissistic who has been that all there life.
I can hardly believe in some of your final words you said “I can’t allow myself to be used as a prop” Wow! I have struggled to accept that my childhood was even a little abusive. It has taken decades of honest reflection to determine the amount of cognitive dissonance that occurred. Just this week I used the word “prop” to describe an experience from when I was 10. Fifty eight years later I am coming to terms with it all.
Over the first 15 years of my marriage this was my husband’s life. And, as mentioned at the end, when he blew up badly enough for me to say I would no longer cooperate at all with his public persona, he went into the overt. For several years our marriage only survived because of our vows before God and the added pain it would have brought the kids (I rarely left him with them alone).
But then Jesus stepped in! First I really learned boundaries and let go of him ever changing, then he actually listened to someone describing bitterness and let it hit his heart. Long-haul Covid has slowed things way down, but he is honest, invites feedback most days, and his temper is a tiny fraction of where it was 3 years ago. He regularly cries as it hits him afresh that Jesus sees his brokenness and loves him anyway.
Narcissism is hugely destructive, but Jesus is even greater. My husband still requires medication to stay out of deep depression but I actually like spending time with him. Perhaps best of all, I believe our kids are unlikely to pass on the pain I know my husband inherited.
@Cheri Fields Amen! He is our Prince of Peace and by His stripes we are healed! Jesus is the source of the healing and peace these hurting people desperately need. I've spent the last 15 years with a covert narc and am just realizing what this really is but I'm trusting that God can do impossible things. My husband is deeply wounded and that's why he is so terrible. My heart hurts for the pain I can see in him but I can't want his healing more than he does. He has to decide he wants healing. I'm praying for that miracle. Thank you for sharing your story. 💜🙏👏🥰 I'm rejoicing for you and your family. Praise the Lord!
The Lord is GOOD, and His mercy endures forever!
My mother is a Covert Narcissist. I always thought she just had a multiple personality disorder, but now, thanks to Dr. Carter's teachings, I understand that she is a true Narcissist and it's much deeper than just "multiple personalities" that my mother cannot control. The fact is that she CAN control what she shows people in public vs. private. They are in control of themselves, and it is great to know that there are ways to identify these issues. Thank you so much for your teachings, Dr. Carter!
@Nurse4life: No contact is hard but once you start healing and you feel PEACE, there’s no going back. Self-worth is the most valuable thing we possess.
Any time I think of calling my narcissistic dad, I remember his not caring about me, so I don't call him. He never takes a shred of responsibility, he dumps his blame onto me. I have had more than enough of his nonsense! I have nil to no-contact with him!
You described my mother perfectly. No contact has brought me much peace, recovery, and freedom. Thank you for your videos.
This is like… a slow sucking death. One day everything is ok next day your the focus of their rage And you can do nothing correct.
The whole thing makes a person crazy - I was suicidal at one point from this because I was made to feel like ( and I’m a professional w 5 college degrees) like was a total bumbling idiot. Gaslighting off the charts I didn’t know any of this existed but it does
Yes, demoralising. I never knew what was coming next. Total confusion and constant bewilderment.
My ex husband checked all of your boxes. It really hit me when you mentioned that you can’t call them out. My ex husband would have me lie to my parents and tell them that he was working so he wouldn’t have to go places with us. He upset me in public one time and told me I was making him look bad. He did this often in different ways. One time he cussed me out through text because I was posting on Facebook about depression, and he yelled at me saying it makes him look bad. He never hit me, but if I said something even slightly “out of line”, he’d lose his temper and punch walls and throw things. I felt like I was walking on eggshells around him.
I eventually left him, and I’m now happily married to someone who treats me much better.
I would think covert narcissism would be higher among those in religious circles because of the pressure to appear virtuous to avoid being shamed by the group. I remember when I was around 10 years old my grandmother was in Church being all nice to people and I was thinking "I wish she would be that nice to me when we get home."
I think alot of them go into politics
RWD. When I was young I just thought my mother was a control freak. Especially when we had company!
Everything was different on those days. But I wasn’t allowed to talk back, or even comment.
Now they’re 85 and 86 and I haven’t spoken to them or heard their nasty voices for five years thank you.
@@koolbeans8292 Good for you.
I liked your closing sentence, “You want Us to be a person of Peace”. I have experienced needing to escape the ongoing conflicts with people, and this is my true hearts desire, to feel peaceful. Dealing with these individuals can take away your calm and sense of peace. Craving/Needing solitude to recalibrate from the trauma of having dealings with the constant denial of truth’ and realities, is very destabilising for oneself I believe.
Try meditation, to reconnect with yourself, and daily affirmations... I start each day with a deep death and the phrase:
Clarity, Light, Love...
I'm seeking clarity, openly sharing my Light, and striving to only exude Love.
Wrestling control from your emotions is the first step towards clarity... OBSERVING rather than reacting lends a whole new perspective to the situation...
I wish you strength on your journey to find peace.
Omg.
Your comment has literally stunned me.
Word for word, practically, as if i had written it myself today.
Amazingly spooky.
Not what I would of written yesterday or what I may of written tomorrow. Today. How I feel right now.
Spooky.
Mine acts very supportive of me when we are around other people but not so much when we are alone.
donna, soon after my matriarch passed, we moved to 🇪🇺 europe, the invalidation began. on the way there, stopped by to visit siblings (where it ❄ snows) and to leave our vehicle (s/he,s purpose for visiting relatives). recalled that one of my other visiting siblings pointed out how affectionate towards me my spouse was during that visit ( ❄). i too found this surprising while it was happening because eventhough the overt gaslighting and invalidation was not yet obvious to me, *i did know* that s/he hardly ever was affectionate towards me at home.
Now! i understand.
Dad would always(still does) isolate me so others can't hear/see what he says/does. He lies, too. Just so others can fawn over him(I don't buy his nonsense) so he can feel superior. He's full of it!
I had a covert narcissistic childhood friend in my life for a LONG time. It didn't fully dawn on me until our friendship ended and I endured the aftermath of stalking, harassment, rumors/slander, insults, begging, and so on. You know, the typical narcissistic explosion of pure rage and obsession. During the final few years of our friendship, I grew more and more resentful because their behavior was getting out of hand. They were becoming less covert about it all. Ending the friendship resulted in the largest blow up I've ever seen in a person. They finally lost control of me and I haven't looked back, they can hardly handle it. It's insane.. A lot of terrible memories with this person flooded back to me over the months that passed after our friendship ended.
Here are signs I stupidly ignored for so long:
- Controlling behavior under the guise of knowing what's best for you (don't be surprised if they talk you out of a life decision and then THEY go and do it themselves). They pretend they care about you, but they manipulate your decision making to fit what THEY want for you. You have a role to play in their own head, and they will manipulate you into living your life the way they want you to. You're a puppet incapable of making decisions for yourself. For example, they don't want you changing/enhancing your appearance ("That is a really hideous hair color, you should change it back." "Going to the gym won't make you happy. You might develop an eating disorder. You should stop while you're ahead!"), they don't want you making a career decisions that will make cause you to make more money than them ("Aren't you afraid of failing, that job seems really tough." "You should really rethink that career change, you will probably hate it. I heard everyone in x field is miserable!"), they don't want you making major life decisions that differ from theirs ("You shouldn't have kids, you need to live life for you." "Why would you ever get married? They will probably leave you anyway." "You're moving in with him..? I bet you he's cheating on you. You can't trust anyone."), etc. They do and say all of this while pretending to "really really" care about you. They pretend it's out of the goodness of their heart. To the public eye, you are their "best friend" and they care about you and are SO supportive. Behind closed doors, they are manipulating you step by step.
- Piggybacking off of the above statement, they will go against some of these statements to make you feel bad about yourself. One day they're telling you to NOT make that job change, the next they're asking you why you have no drive in life, why you stay stagnant, why you don't better yourself. One day they're telling you all of your friends aren't good for you, the next day they're asking if you're lonely and why you don't have any friends, maybe you should branch out more. "No, no, don't waste time at the gym! You're so perfect already! I worry you will become obsessed!" to "Have you ever thought about working out? That might help with your extreme emotions and your recent weight gain. Have you considered counting calories? Here's a book on intermittent fasting." There's a lot of back and forth, it confuses you and makes you question what you think about yourself.
- They don't want you happy, succeeding, etc. For example, your friend really doesn't like you being happy with your significant other. You are THEIRS and if they're miserable, you have to be too. They will try to find reasons for you to hate your friends, significant others, relatives, coworkers, etc. They want you to themselves. They want power over you. You being close with anyone else is a threat. While they are turning you against them, it's highly probably they are turning people against you behind the scenes. They drive a wedge between you and other people to isolate you.
- No boundaries or respect for your time. Constantly keeping tabs on you. God forbid you take too long to reply. God forbid you have a social/work/personal life. Replying too slowly and not spending enough time with them results in outbursts and temper tantrums. They write you over and over and over. They lurk your other social media and question you, "Why did you post a story on instagram but you can't reply to my texts?" They make you feel watched, you start avoiding using social media all together to avoid them analyzing your every move.
- Punishing you if you express concern about their behaviors. This is a HUGE one. If you set boundaries or open up to someone about what bothers you and they react by punishing you, run for the hills. They'll blame you for how you perceive them. They'll tell you they were "just kidding." They'll do anything to shift blame off of them. Narcissistic people don't handle shame or confrontation very well at all. God forbid you don't like how controlling, manipulative, and possessive they are. YOU deserve punishment for hurting THEIR feelings. Punishment may be outright rage, insults, etc. It can be them convincing you you are insane, you overthink, you're crazy, you don't appreciate them. Or it may be more covert, they decide they will turn the people closest to you against you.
- Competing with you. Everything is a competition, even though you didn't sign up for it and you're not at all interested. They want to be better than you, happier than you, prettier than you, smarter than you, and so on. They will do everything they can to paint themselves as this amazing, wonderful, intelligent, beautiful, charismatic, phenomenal human being while strategically tearing you down. They want you to feel smaller than them. They want to feel like you rely on them. They want to feel like you idolize them. In reality, they are sucking the life out of you, absorbing qualities you possess, while trying to tear you down and turn you into a shell of a person.
- Mirroring you. Piggybacking off of the above statement, they fully mirror you and other people in their life. They are visibly absorbing parts of you. Suddenly they are obsessed with your interests, hobbies, and so on. They begin to speak/type the way you do. They start editing photos the same way you do. They begin to share similar opinions as you. They coincidentally begin to "love" the same things you do. They make your own interests and hobbies their entire personality. They constantly post about these things to solidify the idea that parts of you are THEM. They mimic you until you leave them, and then suddenly you are the copycat. They go on and on about how you "copied" them the entire friendship. "You" didn't have a sense of identity.
- Ultimately, how they react to distance or ending the friendship. A narcissist blows up. There is no good ending. There is no civility. They blow up and you will be the bad guy in their story til the end of time. You will be stalked, harassed, insulted, threatened, endlessly. They cannot process you being gone. They cannot cope with your absence, not because they love you, but because you were once under their control. Now they have no power and they are afraid of you being free, afraid of you telling people what they did to you. They try to get ahead of these fears by making everyone think YOU are the monster. They'll more than likely nonstop post about you for months, years on end. They'll make fake accounts to harass and insult you. They may slip up from time to time and apologize, begging for you back, saying how much they miss you. But if you don't reply, they'll go back to insulting and harassing you.
i appreciate your time for posting your inaugural post to this channel.
thinking i should/will share this with my children. as is a good description of what to watch out for [college friends] for them.
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This is amazing in the detail. This could easily also apply to a romantic relationship. Thanks so much for all the hard work you’ve put into detailing all this information. It’s very useful for many others.
@@karenannmcmillan2206 No problem! Unfortunately, I'm still dealing with stalking/harassment from this ex friend. Only a narcissist will abuse you after the friendship ends, even months/years later. It's sad.
"I want you to be a person of peace." Amen.
comes to mind: they have no nurturing emotions, or feelings of *nurture* just *torture*
Oh my word. This is 💯. Took me way too long to figure this out….30 years. Been in therapy for 3 of those years learning “self care”. Thank you Dr C for helping in my education about all of this. Wish I would’ve sought help many more years ago. Could’ve saved much of my wasted decades on thinking I was going insane.
You’re not alone in the length of time it took to see it. These people are masterful actors and we’re just their sympathetic and kind minions who play right into their script. Glad you’re doing well.
❤
You are definitely not alone. 34 years
I hear you about seeking help. I wish I had started therapy before having kids. I'm thinking this is the direction I really need to take now.
35 for me so don’t feel bad. Traditional and religious viewpoints of marriage hindered us also. I thank God I figured it out. Therapy is a must! Trust me, we are not crazy!
3:05 *'Appears Supportive'* towards you, in public ONLY‼️
soon after my matriarch passed, we moved to 🇪🇺 europe, the invalidation began. on the way there, stopped by to visit siblings (where it ❄ snows) and to leave our vehicle (s/he,s purpose for visiting relatives). recalled that one of my other visiting siblings pointed out how affectionate towards me my spouse was during that visit ( ❄). i too found this surprising while it was happening because eventhough the overt gaslighting and invalidation was not yet obvious to me, *i did know* that s/he hardly ever was affectionate towards me at home.
Now! i understand. danka shay danke, dr.c
As the saying goes, "appearances are deceiving."
After 9mths, I walked away 7wks ago, for all the reasons listed! Didn't know "covert narcissist" was a thing? Oh yeah, he went from covert to overt in a split second! I've been reflecting on myself. This has been eye opening & healing! Thankyou!
Thank you, 🙏🙏🙏
the most clear, concise, and enlightened description I have listened too… I have come back to this video 4-5 times to strengthen my resolve and regain my clarity of thought.
Covert Narcissist:
The Chameleon…A keeper of Secrets.
Glad it was helpful! And thanks for the good vibes, too!
Yes, completely describes my ex marriage. When I stopped seeing him as being right all the time ( and he would always have so many reasons to persuade me that he was right, that I eventually gave in because it was exhausting) things certainly escalated and the guilt, blame, shame, accusations and his favourite.......reactive abuse tactics led to me being told that I was selfish, needy, disruptive, argumentative etc and it was horrendous. And the most heartbreaking part of all of this was when my children started to do the same. Thank you Dr Carter for these immensely important and supportive golden nuggets of advice. They've kept me going. Best wishes.
I didn't realise that this behaviour was a form of narcissism. I've known alot of people like this. Thanks for the tip. Forewarned and forearmed, right 👍
A nice forearm to the throat works well for boundaries.
@@rudolphguarnacci197 lol🤣
That’s the tricky bit about covert narcissism. You don’t see it before it is too late. The end result will be the same though it might take longer. You getting hurt and feeling alone.
I was in a relationship with one for 25 years (22 years married). It's a miserable nightmare.
@@jenniferwarhawk7301 indeed. It can be almost impossible to recover from. However just know that it is not about you, but them. Remember you are a shining light. And you might feel that you are alone. But you are not. Remember that light within you. And you will heal even though it can be hard. But I believe in you.
Long before I ever heard the phrase covert narcissism, I actually tried to explain to family member that what my boyfriend appears to be to everyone else (me included as I knew him for years before we started dating) was completely different from what he really is. I had no understanding that a person could have two very different personalities or behaviors. Finding your channel and some others finally gave me insight. Some of your videos are so spot on, it’s as if you had been there watching during our conversations or lack of conversations during his silent treatment modes. So so grateful to be no longer with him. And so so surprised when he starting chasing me again after I left which was another topic you have covered. I am petrified of ever being in another narcissistic relationship as it was incredibly demoralizing
It can be excruciatingly difficult to explain to other people what the narc does. Heck, even when it's happening to you it's hard to believe and understand it. I couldn't explain my family to anyone before I heard of narcissists.
Thanks you for describing in the last two videos I watched of yours on covert narcissism exactly what I went through!!! Spot on! “I am good to you, P. I am kind, generous, and I (insert a scoff here) listen to you and try to understand you.” If I had any anger it was an automatic disqualification. “Look at how angry you are, P! The way you treat me is so wrong!” He is a preacher so his passionate shame of me was like listening to one of his sermons. Now I look back on the first stage when he insisted on going fast, getting me drunk on what felt like mutual love, as the lowest point of my existence. Because it was a bigger deception than my time in the occult. A man of God would not do a tenth of the things that predator did to me.
You have described my older sister to an atom. The false front of "supportiveness", shallow pity, and public "loyalty" cover up a life dedication to sneaky revenge. Way before I heard of narcissism I described that person as the inventor of the Little Mean Trick.
Their lack of empathy is often linked to envy or resentment, which then plays out as revenge. There is a punative quality to their attacks, and they often recruit others to assist in it.
They pretend on social media as the victim and such a good person to help humanity but in the background are awlful and very abusive especially to their best supply...
Omg yes. I had to unfollow someone on fb because it's so freaking fake.
Do you know why they're the most abusive to their best supply? I've seen this, literally, but I cant comprehend it, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this except you, but it certainly is true.
I always wondered why I couldn't have my own opinion and felt "strong armed" into conforming.
Yeah. Dad's a tyrant, everything has to be his way, at his sole convenience, when he wants attention. He nitpicks at me, he's never satisfied. I gave up bothering with him(the majority of the time) on Easter of this year. He thinks I am impressed by him, nothing could be further from the truth!) His way or the highway. He's not with the time, energy and effort. I deserve better than him for a father!
I've been struggling with healing for 2 years after a breakup with an Ex-fiance. In watching videos about covert narcissism, it becomes abundantly clear to me that she exhibited all the behaviors of a covert narcissist. Thank you so much for putting this information out there. It gives me hope that I can heal, and the confidence to approach seeking therapy. It helps that I now feel I can show up for therapy and already have a theme I can present to the therapist. I was abused for 7 years by a covert narcissist, and I'm ready to work through it and heal.
To everyone else who experienced this: You are not alone. You are not an idiot for being fooled. We are the victims of a master manipulators, and I am confident we can heal, and find meaningful healthy relationships in the future.
I think that was one of the hardest things for me to realise about my (almost certainly NPD) grandmother, my narcissistic brother, my covert/enabler father and my alcoholic mother - none of them ever actually cared to know me, what I thought, felt, who I was, etc. I knew them all so well, and propped them up. I was other-focused. But deep down the betrayal was burning. Not caring about who I was as a person, having no empathy or curiosity, it was like I wasn't even human to them. I was dehumanised. And I internalised that and blamed and shamed myself for deserving the abuse, and went on a path of self-destruction for many years. I've heard what they do to one being called 'soul murder', and it really is.
Dad drank, which he apologized to me and my family for. His carousing, he acted like he was entitled. Sick man. I am not going to put up and shut up for him, anymore. His attitude is his problem, nor is it my fault. He dumps all his toxicity onto me. I am not a landfill. He thinks only he matters, that only his time and life matter. He's wrong. He goes out of his way for those he is trying to impresss. He barely does anything(2 or 3 times a year) for me, yet told me to tell others he helps me each week/does something nice: lies!) I won't lie for him to myself or others. He's pathetic, I deserve a better father!
I’m out after 6 years. But I am crying just listening to this. I have experienced every single element of this over and over.
As an example, I was actively miscarrying my second child and despite seeing the blood drip from bedroom to toilet, I asked to use the car and he replied’ need to go for a haircut’. Well me being super resilient I said I would take the bus. He reluctantly dropped me and my 13 month old at the the hospital. I was sent home with a scheduled D&C two days after. A family friend had to call him to come and take me home. In the car he said ‘what a shame such a terrible thing should happen to you’. At home he didn’t say a word. The next day I pushed out a dead baby with the placenta a bit later. I buried my child at the end of the garden. No hug, no words no flowers and in fact he was whistling while i was panicking.
In court for divorce he weaponised my miscarriage and said that because I shut myself off from him after it , I am too unstable to care for my toddler who had turned two so he wanted full custody.Mind you he upped and went back to his parents when I was 11 weeks pregnant with said toddler. April 26 right in the middle of full corona. He only turned up for their delivery. I could write two bestsellers about him. I’m a lot stronger now but its being only a year and I extremely traumatised. Also because he hasn’t slowed down in his smear campaign
I am SO sorry for your experience.
I'm sorry. This is so painful to even read. I can't imagine the pain and hurt you are processing as this is total abandonment by someone who supposedly was going to love you.
It's a no win situation...the more you protest against the false narative, & facade of perfection...the more knives in your back from the narcissist...they don't quit, they don't grow out of it, they don't care how much they hurt you...THEY ARE DEMONS OUT TO STEAL YOUR
VOICE, YOUR SANITY, YOUR LIFE !!
Street angels house devils
They can absolutely reflect on themselves, but they always come to the conclusion that they are right and others have wronged them.
The lesson I came away from my experience with this personality was just be my authentic self. The dysregulation is going to rear it's ugly head no matter what you do! Just get it out of the way so you know then move on!
Spot on in every respect. My adoptive mother was a covert narcissist. I barely escaped her with my life. My adoptive father was not so lucky. Nor was the person she replaced me with after I escaped. They both died. One by suicide, the other, it’s now thought she murdered when she realised she was losing control of him. The only reason I was ever adopted by her was that the families on both sides lied to Social Services about her history of mental incarceration and violence. I’m finding out more now about the deep back history and it’s ugly…