10 Signs of Vulnerable Narcissistic Abuse | The "Dark Cloud" Theory of Covert Narcissism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2019
- This video answers the question: How can one spot vulnerable narcissistic abuse in a romantic relationship? I put together this video of ten signs of vulnerable narcissistic abuse. This applies to romantic relationships and with these particular ten signs, I looked at heterosexual romantic relationships not only in the scientific literature but in my clinical experience. I review the “dark cloud” theory of vulnerable narcissism.
There are two types of narcissism: grandiose and vulnerable. There are characteristics that we see across both types of narcissism that would be self-centeredness, a sense of entitlement, and a need for admiration. Specific to vulnerable narcissism, we see a low level of extraversion (somebody who has vulnerable narcissism tends to be introverted), high neuroticism, anxiety, depression, anger, resentfulness, distrustfulness, insecurity, feelings of shame, hypersensitivity to criticism, defensiveness, socially awkwardness, shyness, pessimism, being unforgiving, internalized anger, aggression, and jealousy.
Kealy, D., & Rasmussen, B. (2012). Veiled and Vulnerable: The Other Side of Grandiose Narcissism. Clinical Social Work Journal, 40(3), 356-365.
McCain, J. L., & Campbell, W. K. (2018). Narcissism and social media use: A meta-analytic review. Psychology of Popular Media Culture, 7(3), 308-327.
Neufeld, D. C., & Johnson, E. A. (2016). Burning with envy? Dispositional and situational influences on envy in grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. Journal of Personality, 84(5), 685-696.
Sandage, S. J., Jankowski, P. J., Bissonette, C. D., & Paine, D. R. (2017). Vulnerable narcissism, forgiveness, humility, and depression: Mediator effects for differentiation of self. Psychoanalytic Psychology, 34(3), 300-310.
Jauk, E., Weigle, E., Lehmann, K., Benedek, M., & Neubauer, A. C. (2017). The relationship between grandiose and vulnerable (hypersensitive) narcissism. Frontiers in Psychology, 8.
Mechanic, K., & Barry, C. christopher. barry@usm. ed. (2015). Adolescent Grandiose and Vulnerable Narcissism: Associations with Perceived Parenting Practices. Journal of Child & Family Studies, 24(5), 1510-1518.
Kealy, D., Sandhu, S., & Ogrodniczuk, J. S. (2017). Looking ahead through a fragile lens: Vulnerable narcissism and the future self. Personality & Mental Health, 11(4), 290-298.
Miller, J. D., Lynam, D. R., Vize, C., Crowe, M., Sleep, C., Maples, K. J. L., … Maples-Keller, J. L. (2018). Vulnerable Narcissism Is (Mostly) a Disorder of Neuroticism. Journal of Personality, 86(2), 186-199.
Edwards, Bethany G., Emily Albertson, and Edelyn Verona. 2017. “Dark and Vulnerable Personality Trait Correlates of Dimensions of Criminal Behavior among Adult Offenders.” Journal of Abnormal Psychology, Dark Personality Traits: Challenges and Innovations, 126 (7): 921-27.
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There comes a point when you get tired of talking, writing and communicating problems, and never resolving solutions. It is all like an emotional rollercoaster that never stops. THEY NEVER CHANGE.
They only get worse as they get older my husband is 54 years old and hes a covert narc he’s just getting worse
@@user-gk4bc6rh4b What are you waiting for? Walk AWAY!
I have tried to be patient, tried to show kindness, tried to let the other person apologise for organising a trip to bali without me. When I found out ,I apparently was at fault🤪 . Just contentiousness😣
Def feels like a rollercoaster. I often wonder where his off switch is. I wish I could find it
Parenting adult children I call them
“Narcissists will destroy your life, erode your self-esteem, and do it with such stealth as to make you feel that you are the one that's letting them down.”
@@grahamlee7196Sorry to hear this God bless you Praying it gets much better for you, very soon
✨☘️🙏
@Anna yes it most surely is an art form for them God bless you sincerely
Thank you for your insightful enlightenment & hope life's now treating you extremely kindly ✨☘️🙏
@Anna God bless you Anna
Thank you for your brilliant sincere comment
Yes it is surely lovely to be surrounded by good hearted genuine folks, whom are actually able to empthise being's they've walked in similr shoes, God bless you
Hope you're well away from any nrcissists these times so you're now not being continuously affected by them
Praying God blesses you in abundance with brilliant blessings ✨☘️🙏
When you know you know, don't let them move you
@@appleofelohimseyes7774 Thank you very much sincerely for your good insights & enlightenment ✨☘️🙏
When it comes to narcissistic abuse, it's crucial to focus on understanding the dynamics of the abusive relationship and the impact it has on the victim, rather than making assumptions or generalizations about their behavior. Narcissistic abuse can have a profound and complex effect on victims, often leading to emotional trauma, low self-esteem, and a distorted sense of self-worth. It can erode trust, create feelings of isolation, and manipulate the victim's perception of reality. Some victims of narcissistic abuse may struggle with maintaining healthy boundaries, trusting others, or recognizing their own value. In some cases, individuals who have experienced narcissistic abuse may engage in behaviors that are out of character, including cheating or seeking validation outside the relationship. These behaviors can be a response to the emotional turmoil and manipulation they have endured. It's important to approach this with compassion and understand that these actions may stem from a desire for validation, escape, or a misguided attempt to regain a sense of control or self-worth. However, it's essential to note that not all victims of narcissistic abuse engage in infidelity or seek external validation. Each individual responds to abuse differently, and their actions may vary depending on their coping mechanisms, personal values, and circumstances. If you or someone you know has experienced narcissistic abuse, it is crucial to seek support from professionals such as therapists or counselors who specialize in trauma and relationship dynamics. They can provide guidance, healing strategies, and help rebuild a healthy sense of self-worth and trust. Remember, the effects of narcissistic abuse are complex, and the healing process is unique to each individual. Judgment and assumptions can hinder the understanding and support that victims need. Providing empathy, compassion, and access to appropriate resources can contribute to the healing journey and empower survivors to rebuild their lives. Additionally, If you need to find out about a cheating narcissist; send a request to: Barryinvestigation@gmail. com
When we finally went to counselling (when I told him the marriage was over), I was so shocked when he put on this reasonable, engaging persona. Made me look like the unreasonable, angry resentful unforgiving partner. Fascinating really, just terrible to live through. When the session ended I introduced myself to him and said 'who are you, I don't think we've met'.
I was presented with the same reasonable, engaging persona in the beginning of the relationship.
That changed later. It is really like two people in the same body
It’s amazing how they can switch, which shows me that they are aware of their behavior, and are in control of themselves. They are masters of manipulation. I’m in the same boat with you, and soon, I’ll be much happier.
I had this partner for 8.5 years. I was gas lighted throughout the whole relationship. He was one way with everyone around him, close the doors he was completely different man. I honestly thought I was losing my mind. My family, friends all said he was this great guy. No one believed me. I was stuck in this situation that I didn't know how to get out of it. It took me a long time to leave him because I thought it was me. I went into therapy and found out how to better understand my situation. The whole time he would not go into therapy with me. Which was a real sign to me. It was all about control. The day he told me in middle of the wilderness on this trip we took that he could kill me and bury me and not one would ever find me is the day I planned my way out.
@@antionettewardell2151 I will say a prayer for your safety and new life. God knows and cares.🌿
@@antionettewardell2151 I totally understand. I lived a very similar experience, nearly same situations and you just feel helpless. He was like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde persona, nice, attractive and a true rhetorical genius to the outside world. When we were alone, he started his lunatic erratic behavior and nobody believed me what he was doing to me. They claimed it must be me, I must trigger him somehow because he never is like that with his friends or family. But I know he was like that to his ex girlfriends, too and he never had a relationship longer than some months or a year. With m it was one of his longest, 2 years. That tells you something - and he is 40.
The victim mentality is the most exhausting thing I've seen with these people.
If your always a victim. There is always a perpretator. Better to grow up and ditch the splitting based defenses. Jealous and paranoia are central to overt and. Ulnerable narcissism - reactive abuse happens when they go off on you for 1/2 hour and you stand up for yourself for 2 minutes and then your terrible. So don't defend ypurself. Use observe don't absorb, Ross Rosenberg ,m.a. on you tube. Its like watching a science experiment. And they could say "your terrible" you observe pause for a minute and say yep. Pretty soon you will see the pattern of what's gonna come next. if you use this you will reduce the conversations or fights because your not playing their game .
@@id5girl funny they went no contact on you. You should go no contact on them. I haven’t examined them but sound like narcs- the eternal child and victim. Throw a party or at least do something pleasurable for you!
I think many vulnerable narcissists are possibly former victims that never had their abuse validated or acknowledged.
I see a lot of these symptoms in me, and I've been out for three years now. I am bitter and angry and distrustful. I have begged and pleaded for someone, anyone to see what's happened to me, but I instead look like an unstable liar because I never reported what was happening when it was happening. My abuser even said he "ruined me". Years of sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and physical. I'm tired and paranoid.
I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD. I also have ADHD and have developed avoidant personality disorder. I torture myself by watching these videos and ascribing these traits to myself. I know what happened to me; I wish someone would acknowledge it. Someone close to what happened.
@Gemma Dann Holy Hell if that doesn't describe my ex to a T.
@Gemma Dann God, yes. That. Like he just thought he should get his dream job because....no good reason. Meanwhile I've been working my ass off while he stayed unemployed because "nothing worked out."
About the poor listening skills, I think it depends on the subject or the situation. I think they are actually good listeners. They register everything you say to use it back against you when needed
That's not being a good listener. That's picking certain things out of a conversation and storing them for later without listening to the other parts of the conversation that were actually essential to human interaction. They are terrible listeners because they are only listening to what they deem necessary for their future purposes. That's not how good listening works.
@@deja_ ...or its ADHD...
It’s not poor listening skills were just inattentive, basically it’s like usually when we think you’re going to tell us what we’ve already heard or we know what you’re going to say so what’s the point of listening if I heard or know it and I’d rather fantasize about something more entertaining, it’s also likely a way for us to internally belittle but subconsciously it feels like a unnecessary conversation
@@titanbmc like I said poor listening skills. Being inattentive and fantasizing about other things because the conversation is boring to you is exactly describing poor listening skills😐
Yaaasss lol seriously...
This is very true, in my opinion. They'll hone in on things that interest them, for example: compliments, moments of vulnerability displayed by the other party and so on. Like you said, they'll use the vulnerable stuff against you later and they'll continue to fuff their vulnerable egos with the compliments.
I don't know how to deal with these types of people but I feel like limiting the amounts of compliments is a good start. Never share anything personal with these people. DO NOT trust them with anything. Limit the amount of time you spend with them and never give them advise that may help them better themselves. Let them figure it out on their own. I know that sounds mean but, they look for people to carry them, emotionally. Don't be their dumping ground.
03:35 #1 Victim mentality (unforgiving)
05:15 #2 Negativity (dark cloud)
06:01 #3 No forgiveness
07:09 #4 Non productive argument, no compromise
08:37 #5 Anger and hatred are just below the surface all the time
09:27 #6 Accusation without evidence on a regular basis (affairs, jealousy)
10:03 #7 Sexual narcissism (submission or proof of love)
11:10 #8 Poor listening skills
12:12 #9 Disgust for friends of the partner (possession, jealousy)
13:12 #10 Repeated grand efforts to change (failed attempts to reform)
Sign #10 is kind-of proof that vulnerable/covert narcissists are actually less narcissistic and more self aware than overt narcissists but STILL meet all the criteria to be labelled as narcissists. But they are definitely less narcissistic, they are almost like a borderline with narcissistic traits... But actually having at least 5 traits to be considered narcissists.
Thanks pal
@@nugget6635 I went to write almost the same thought. I wonder if these types come in to practices for
help especially with their relationship or marriage. #10 really makes these types different from the grandiose/classic type. The pain they feel like a borderline seems to drive them perhaps to want to start over/change.
@Perpetua Chinelo sending you love and light. I was just listening to Dr R on my lunch I’m having a hard day. Take good care of yourself.
Thank for noting ,very useful
For me, the covert narcissist comes across as a people pleaser. They like to be in the spotlight to get the validation that they crave for, as other narcissists but at the same time, they pretend to be humble, simple, generous, over giving. The covert narcissist will take time to build a relationship/friendship with you. During this period, they will show their admiration and their devotion by helping you with everything that is you need. They will try to convince you that you are soulmates and that they understand you deeply. At the same time, you will see them being overly altruistic, maybe helping society by engaging in charities, activism. They feed the poor, take care of the homeless. All this makes you think how lucky you are for having met such a beautiful soul. You want to be by their side for ever. However, soon you notice how much they enjoy being invited in galas to talk about their achievements. But they don’t admit that. They still play the humble guy who doesn’t want all this. Who is beyond money, beyond fame and recognition, who wants to share the floor with other people. But their acts don’t match their words. You come to realise that this selfless soul is actually doing whatever it takes to be in the centre of attention. When you do something together be it at work or at home, they want to control everything about it. They just exerce their control in a more polite and implicit way, making you believe that your voice was heard whereas in reality you did what they wanted you to do. Covert narcissists have a smooth way of leading you on. They don’t shout, they don’t give orders. They are master actors. They convince you that you are together in this. What makes them a narcissist is that when the time comes for them to use you in order to draw certain benefits, they will do it without a second thought and you are not going to believe in your eyes. And when you stand up for yourself and raise your voice against them calling them for their phony identity, then you will see their rage for the first time and the mask will fall. Covert narcissists manipulate less with rage/exhibiting superiority and more with people pleasing behaviour/playing the eternal victim. They are not aggressive as overt narcissists. They are more cunning. What they both have in common is self-centered ness and lack of empathy. In the case of coverts, it will take you longer to find out.They knew what they wanted to get out of you from the beginning. They created a whole theatre play to fool you about who they are and their true motives. You will trust them with all your heart but when the time comes for them to prove their loyalty by choosing your bond over their personal gain, they will choose the latter with no remorse, without even taking any responsibility. Unlike the overt narcissist, they will have an eloquent excuse for doing so, rationalizing why they had to f@ck you over. They will pretend to be sorry about it because this is something that matches the image of modesty that they want to project but in reality they are not sorry at all. You will see them partying with your own money when they said they didn’t have enough to pay you back. You will see them being unfair and untrustworthy to other people as well. When the mask of the victim will fall, you will see the cruel smile of a perpetrator who managed to get what they want without deserving it. If you decide to unmask them run for your life. Additionally, The unwavering support and dedication demonstrated by Metaspyhub@gmail. com have been pivotal in my journey to uncover the painful truth surrounding my partner's infidelity. From the moment I first reached out to them, their professionalism and unwavering commitment to assisting me in finding the answers I desperately sought were readily apparent and highly commendable. Through their swift action and meticulous investigation, They presented me with compelling evidence that left no room for doubt. Armed with this newfound knowledge, I confronted my cheating partner with newfound courage, reclaiming my self-worth and paving the way for a future filled with renewed hope. Throughout this emotionally challenging process, Metaspyhub's expertise and unwavering support served as a constant source of strength, offering invaluable guidance and empathetic understanding when I needed it the most. I am profoundly grateful for their unwavering assistance, as it has empowered me to move forward with unwavering determination and newfound resilience.
Thank you ,for this information, so beautiful put ❤
Oh that dark cloud! The constant negativity was more than I could take....not to mention the moods, the criticism, the moaning. It was endless.
They're so miserable and boring as hell! Of one can't leave then one just has to shut off the emotions and let them have their tantrums and stew in their misery without being pulled in. Grey rock and share nothing with them. It's also super important to spend time with healthy people and share yourself with them. It's important to keep growing but out of their sight.
The moaning omg you hit the nail right on the head with that one!!💯
@@battfamily435 100% ❤
Yes! Moaning, complaining, wanting to play devil’s advocate, sighing, grunting, always being negative. It really is a dark cloud. It becomes so hard to maintain your sunny outlook or healthy positivity in that environment.
@@sfnerd2023 lt sure does... worst of all is when you realize you're the one who is responsible for carrying that dark cloud around then set upon finally permanently destroying it which is no easy task 💯
It takes courage and bravery to dismantle something you've carried with you for the entirety of your life. Even though it's destructive, it feels comfortable and necessary, because you've carried it for so long 💪
Cheers to those intent on doing better, being better and becoming stronger than they've ever been before.
It's no easy task 💙
Many of those traits are also found in people who have C-PTSD, particularly on those who have been traumatized from infancy by a narcissistic or psychopathic parent.
I am so glad You brought this to others awareness! I was thinking, as I listened to this, "this sounds a lot like CPTSD", as I myself now struggle and suffer with after 10 yrs. of Narcissistic abuse to an extreme. I would be interested to hear Dr. Grande's view of how these signs correlate with the signs of a victim of NPD abuse who has CPTSD. Furthermore, how we can heal our mind and emotions to lesson these symptoms.
@@j.reneenorman2325 Therapy is my salvation.
@Kieren Summers
Thanks for saying this……..I agree 100%. You made me feel better. Omg 😪😢
I agree.
@Kieren Summers I mean yeah, all personality disorders, and most other mental health issues, are caused by childhood trauma, so...
I've recently discovered information like this about nascisism. I've been married to a vulnerable nasicist for 21 years. Your description here fits my situation exactly. Needless to say I have struggled with anxiety and depression for 15 years. Two overdoses later I have instigated divorce proceedings. What a relief to hear this type of information. The nasicist as in my case has blamed me and my mental health issues for everything. It's a scary place to be at 61 years of age but I know that I am doing the right thing.
You can do it. I didn’t come to my senses until I was a few years past your age. You will find it within yourself, once the stress is removed. Don’t give up. You have it in you, sixty-one isn’t really that old on hind sight.
The anxiety and depression!!! 😭Does it go away after the divorce??
Yes you are!! Courage!!
Thanks for sharing. As soon as you make that decision to leave, may be tough for a spell, but most important - you chose You. I promise, when you choose you, everything flows.
Wow this took a certain bravery I cannot even imagine, to set off into the world again at 61. I'm proud of u
I can’t tell you how validating your videos are after being mentally and emotionally abused by a narc. I thought I was always wrong and crazy. I’m just learning that I was being gaslit and abused by this psycho who was incapable of love or empathy.
I'm glad you found what you needed to know 🕊️
good for you hun ..now RUN& DONT LOOK BACK!!!!!!
They will hold onto a grudge as if it's his life's blood. The ex husband is evil.
Dr Grande is one of the best. Have you heard of Dr Ramani D on you tube she is a psychologist and know a lot about Narcissist.
@@kellyleighread807 that’s the truth on the grudge. Woof.
I've never had a my personal situation explained with such clarity. In the end it was the persistent negativity, and the arguments that had no resolution that really wore me out.
Same. The Same. Damn. Argument. Over and over, ad nauseum! Always ending with me saying “We HAVE to be able to COMMUNICATE” or “What is so hard about TALKING?” Or my personal fAVoRITe “Why can we not just get to a RESOLUTION?!”
I’ve never been so exhausted in my life. 😒
This is how I'm feeling right now, and I just broke up with him. But I don't understand why I also feel the desire to make up.
@Cindy
It’s the Trauma Bond and it is chemical in your brain. Being abused this way causes many reactions, physical ones, and when the relationship finally happens ends (mercifully & THANKFULLY as they ALWAYS will) your body goes through a period of detox and withdrawal. It, very literally, acts and feels like an addiction. Because it is- an addiction to that person as the source of the heady concoction of chemicals and hormones that you have gotten accustomed to receiving. There is no magic pill, unfortunately- that will break the Trauma Bond- no easy way around the discomfort. But there are A TON of resources here on YT and online with which to arm yourself with knowledge of what’s happened to you and the quickest way out and away from it.
I would also say, that ultimately- it was something vulnerable about each one of us who have been targeted for this kind of abuse- so educate yourself on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and KNOW that you ARE NOT AT FAULT- and that there may be some unresolved trauma inside of you that has manifested by making you err on the codependent side- or at least with heavy people-pleasing tendencies.
You are not alone, my friend. I only wrote my reply a matter of weeks ago and I am no where NEAR clear of the bond. But I am better than yesterday- and I will be even better tomorrow.
No Contact is the only thing you HAVE to focus on for now- because no one can quick an addiction by continuing to use.
Good luck, Gorgeous- you already did the hardest part- you got OUT. ☮️🙏✊💪
Same here
@@Mymymissmisty appreciate your encouraging words Misty...thank you for your kindness 💜
The disgust at anytime, no matter how small that I receive from my spouse has always baffled me. I could be talking to my mom about a TV show and my husband reacts as if he just walked in on me cheating on him.
Watching videos on narcissism as a narcissist is like being given a scrip to a play you didn't realize you were in.
Lol...so true!
No not really. Empaths can always feel you. And nomatter how hard you pretend you'll never feel comfortable around them anyway. It's like they have personality x ray perception. Sometimes they don't even know what they're doing to you. But you'll always target them and expose yourself
That is harsh, but true!😂😂😂🤦
You fall right into place don't you. Now you know we all know the script and we do realize you're in it. Unfortunately you're not very well liked. I'm sorry. Not sorry really.
I was certain that I was a vulnerable narcissist for years. Stopped dating because I didn't want to hurt anyone else. I then pinpointed that cptsd was the root cause and I've been able to work on my behavior and am no longer described as a Debbie downer or a drama queen. I did everything dr grande described and I it boggles the mind how I thought this was normal and appropriate behavior. I always said how much I loathed drama yet was so often the one who initiated it and thrived in the chaos that ensued. I was sullen but became animated when tearing other people down or engaging in malicious gossip. Cheated and lied to my partners and turned everything around to shift the blame...so hurtful, time consuming and destructive.
The last time I remember engaging in this horror was in 2018, when my last long term relationship ended.
Fast forward a few years...close friends have come to me and said they see improvements and how happy they am for me. I no longer hold grudges, fight with loved ones or engage in passive aggressive behavior. I still want to sometimes so I have to catch myself. Becoming self aware is hard after years of blaming everyone else.
Although I still haven't gotten into another relationship, dont think i'm healed enough yet, i know there is hope and life doesn't have to be a chaotic train-wreck.
God bless you and heal you 🙏
Good for you. In my experience the big difference is:
If you have PTSD, you'll feel a drive to learn and change...
If you have narcissism, you'll have zero desire to change, you're already perfect and always will be.
That’s great to hear that these things can be healed with acceptance , time and work
Yeah they're highly sensitive to stress. They get stress from anywhere & they take it out on their "special" target victim.
This totally describes the abuser in my life.
They get stress just from existing or you being present, and that is already a good enough reason to lash out at you.
You are not to blame. Sad to say that some narcissists manage somehow to acquire more than one 'special' target victims who end up trying to get away for a long time without ending up with too many losses.
@Mizorovich Prahaschkapalan Very well said & helpful 👍
@@mamlas9494 yeah my recent ex of 6 months got triggered, panic attacks etc from driving. from grocery shopping. from going to meet my family. from (constantly) getting lost. from having a cell phone that relied on "magic" so no reliable GPS- this was a 40 year old man. And he would freak out and yell at me in response to all this. triggering my PTSD. I would be shaking and sobbing while trapped in the car with him or trapped in my house while he hollered endlessly about nothing until I was provoked enough to start fighting back. Then I was "the abuser." UGH.
They cannot cope with life and need a whipping boy/girl
My expierence with a vulnerable: They treat strangers
better than they treat you.
They covertly flirt so that they are approached, its to reinforce to you that everyone wants them, and they are desirable.
They minimize real tragedy and household mishaps with indifference. For example your washing machine breaks and water everywhere and they could care less, and they make your normal reaction seem crazy.
They sneak in comments about your friends or wherever you go. ( example: people were looking at you when we were wherever, they know you have issues)
They are LAZY as hell.
Whatever you do for them wasnt quite right,
Soups too hot, bed is made wrong, dishes are not spotless.
They ignore you for days. They act helpless and damaged, so you help them with everything.
Whatever you wanted in the relationship, they will achieve that with the new supply and post it on social media: example: i would love to go sailing,
The next supply will be pictured with a sailboat.
Theres much more
The hatred is felt for things done or presumed to be done to the vulnerable narc.
The ability to be obsessed, jealous, vengeful, paranoid is unbelievable
Feeling like you're hated all the time. That's exactly how I feel from narc neighbors. I'm being made to feel that I'm always committing something really wrong when I just do normal things.
yes, that is exactly how it feels!
Regarding #10-in my unprofessional and limited experience most promises of change are made to distract the partner and keep them in the relationships. When it comes down to actually doing the healing work they run into their own arrogance, emotional laziness and unwillingness to forgive someone from the past 60+ years ago. These are real decisions they are making.
Tender Heart - 🕊🙏❤️YES! Going through this right now with my husband of 19 years. THANK YOU for your comment...not feeling so alone about these confusing, self sabotoging behviors. A lot of insight into how the healing work becomes sabotoged by arrogance, emotional laziness (and general laziness in my case), unforgivenes, pathological lying, “magical”, fantastical thinking, and inability for self reflection. They seem to be able to only go a tiny way in meaningful healing (enough to give us false hope) and the false arrogant self cannot handle the emotions. Finally, they seem to stop the healing process when they don’t immediately get the results they want (i.e. the marriage is back together). They have low levels of patience, focus, and an inability to see things through unless they feel good and...get their supply. Praying you are healing yourself!❤️🙏🕊
Tender Heart spot on
Regarding #10 my narcissist never sees success in changing because she can't focus long enough and do the work. This seems to translate into every aspect in her life. This may be a co-morbid trait but lack of focus seems to go along with poor listening. I think they don't listen because they already know it all. What knew is there to learn. This also makes them resistant to progressing.
@Goodnuff Fornow Exhausting doesn't begin to describe it. I feel that she has components of ADHD and OCD traits. She also ticks all the vulnerable narc boxes. I know what you mean by therapy being a worthless endeavor. If you can get them to go, it will only last until they feel it is getting too close. Self insight is not one of their traits. My narc has the classic history with a significant trauma at age 4. We have a 4 year old and I feel that I have two of them in the house. I have made terrible mistakes getting myself into this situation but exiting will be even more traumatic, not only for me but our boy. Thank you for your response and for listening.
@@pablopolski1228 morning
I'm separated from a grandiose narcissist. I tried for years to make it work but I couldn't do it anymore. He blames me for everything and he didn't do anything wrong, ever. He had me so low I didn't care if I lived or died. Since therapy and separating from him I'm so much relaxed and happy. Prayers to anyone that has a narcissist in their life.❤🙏
You were so right on with the phone calls. I could never even call my mother while he was near me because the hatred was so thick in the room. It was obvious that he didn’t like any attention being taken away from him so I could never receive any phone calls when I was with him, like I said, not even from my mother. It was just insane because I found myself ignoring my cherish family and friends for his needs.
I had a step father like that. So strange. If we didn't include him in our talks,our watching tv,or whatever, he be jealous and mad at at. He even punished us,by telling us to be near him and to watch TV with him. There were times we spent with him ,then their were times we want to be alone or spent it with another member of family. He blow up
Same here. Mom, dad, step dad, female friend…ALWAYS pure Anger from my husband. He’d have little reasons like his football game was on but it never made sense.
Sooooo relatable
Sound very familliar
So sorry you went through this
God knows, we all need & deserve to have our lovely fmily members & sincere friends
Just completely seems pure possessiveness, God bless you
Extremely wrong to isolte you like this:-Especi@lly from your dear Mother
Bet she missed being able to converse with you properly too😔✨☘️🙏Forever remember a work friend popping over to see me @ home & meeting my ex there for the first time
She finally could see for herself, the cold silent treat ment i received & my friend received it too
She were completely gob smcked, God bless her & actually s@id to me "i just can't believe it" She'd heard about the treat ment, but never before actually witnessed it
Seeing is believing, hey
Honestly hope & pray you're well away from this kind of possessive treat ment now & having all the good wonderful blessings in life you so deserve
With plenty of unmonitored quality mrvelous time with your dear Mother
God bless you&yours sincerely✨☘️🙏
"Not that they would do this." Yep. Around three years ago I made a vow to myself that I would never discuss ANYTHING of substance with my wife unless another person (a witness) was present. The lies became a regular occurrence. And if I called her on them, or questioned her or criticized her on anything she went into instant rage, not unlike a two year old having a tantrum. It was scary, walking on eggshells every moment of every day. So I just kept quiet in order to avoid the rage. And losing all trust and confidence in anything she did or said. Nobody would believe it or the fear that I lived in all the time. I left for good to days ago. Let the healing begin.
I hope you STAY AWAY FROM HER. DON'T GO BACK.
I get so tired of others not seeing it.
I was accused of being the difficult one.
Yes, I have had my struggles, my behavior hasn't always been reasonable... I work on myself, and have faced some hard facts about myself.
I thought the problem was all me.... It was always the assumption....
I can't leave... I'm financially unable to have my own healthcare, and I can't survive without it.
Even if you have some of these behaviors.... It DOESN'T MEAN that you aren't experiencing abuse.
Please remember that.
Yes good luck and , no contact again , iv been through 16 years of it , permanently on eggshels , i got to get my 17 year old daughter from her now , as it is rubbing off onto her. So clever & Evil sadist . She has called the police 4 times when im not there , she call me me , she putting dinner out , as im on my way home, she call police tell them , im kicking & banging the door , her and children are upstairs all feared of me banging door , im not there , i pull up outside unusually front door is locked , so i knock 3 times , she is visible through glass with a smile on her face , i see blue lights flashing , refected off the glass on front door , behind me , all i done for 9 years is await court appearances, and iv never done anything wrong , She had total control over me for years , iv always listened and done as she requires, to avoid the rage , and not go to prison for whatever reason she has had me arrested for , as i was always on bail Awaiting court appearances. Devastating.
I hope if you had kids with her you didn’t leave them there
@@laurendeaves376 it is so hard to keep our kids away from the narc parent. I imagine it is harder for a man because of the bias towards kids being with their moms. And narcs are SO good at charming others.
Wow! This describes my ex nearly to perfection. He's still griping about people who supposedly wronged him in kindergarten.
TRUST is like a crystal glass that once it's broken its hard put the pieces back together and when you try to fix them, you might get puncture and get hurt. The crystal glass would never be the same no matter what, that is why it's important to apply wisdom when dealing with our partners and i believe smartness is essential in any relationship. I got help from (Cybertech-tracker) as he helped cloned my cheating husband’s phone and I got access to all his phone Text messages, Imessages, Facebook, Instagram, Whats-app, Skype, Kik, Twitter, Snap-chat, Email and social media chats without touching his phone. My husband was a cheating Narcissist but I'm glad to uncover his deceits, secrets and Infidelity. All I did was share his phone number with (cybertech-tracker) and i was able to read his recent and deleted messages from my phone without laying my hands on his phone and he has no idea his phone has been cloned. I was hurt when i saw a picture of my husband and his lover, i felt so bad about infidelity. I’m here in Australia and was able to access his phone while he was away cheating in the UK and saw all the proofs i needed for a divorce and even terrible things they had planned . He also does hacking of account or any other type of hacking and retrieval of data. His services are trusted and guaranteed and also affordable. Contact this great hacker via Gmail (cybertechtracker) or text and speak to him directly on his phone and Whats-app : +1 (202) 697-7171. I hope you find peace of mind just like myself after discovering the truth.
@absolutely nothing out of nothingness Supposedly, he didn't want to do something his Kindergarten teacher wanted him to do, so "he showed her who was boss". He left the school and walked home. He's still pitching the same 5 yr old fits as a 50 yr old "man". It was embarrassing and humiliating to go anywhere with him. He literally could not be trusted not to have some kind of toddler meltdown even going places he wanted to go to and doing things he wanted to do. He jumped out of moving car on a freeway ramp because after months of planning to attend his parent's 40th wedding anniversary, he decided he couldn't go. He decided this by flipping out in the car.-
Of course, the Kindergarten story is predicated on a compulsive liar telling a story and holding a grudge. I have come to understand that there is little truth in any of his stories. I have witnessed him holding grudges against people for things that never happened because he has convinced himself that people wronged him.
So, adopting the benefit of the doubt choice, there comes a point in life where one just needs to get over it. It's fine to bring stuff up from the past as a teaching point about something in life. But he literally gets into fights with his mom over her alleged disappointment that he didn't play football in 12th grade. And he still goes on about his "evil" Kindergarten teacher...because he knows better than everyone...even at age 5...he was smarter than his Kindergarten teacher. This is a pattern of his life. The world is against him. The world is out to get him. If he gets a papercut, he literally acts like no one in the whole history of humanity has ever had a papercut before. I cannot tell you how many times I had to say, "You realize this happens to everyone, right?" And no, he didn't get that because the world revolves around him, so if something happens to him, it's a targetted and isolated historical event.
Oh dear 🤦🏽♀️
My xgf was still grinding on her bf from Uni 12 years later... he was many bad things etc., but she never factored in her own pathology and how that shaped their relationship & indeed ours. I did make mistakes, absolutely, but I was trying to negotiate an exit from a marriage to an alcoholic with three kids... I didn’t sympathy but I did need empathy... did I get anything I needed? Did I bunnies!! And now, after 8 years she’s discarded and I will no doubt be to blame for her having no kids (if that’s how it pans out). I should point out here that I was CRYSTAL CLEAR on not wanting more, and she changed her mind 4 years in... I was ready for it and embraced the idea of a new family but nothing was ever good enough!! Done, but horribly in love with her still. 50+ days NC
Yes! My wife still talks about elementary school kids that wronged her
My father is a vulnerable narcissist and my mother is a grandiose narcissist. 🤦🏻♀️ I spent years in therapy to finally understand that I’m not crazy when I feel abused as a child even without any physical abuse. Thank you for these videos, you made things more clear to me.
Same problem. What makes it worse it that I attract narcissistic bosses, colleagues, boyfriends and friends. So I isolate. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong now coz I've healed every thing my parents broke (I think) but I still attract these people. And they've turned attacking me into a habitual sport. I'm falling quickly back to PTSD AFTER healing and knowing. Sometimes I feel. . . God. . . I feel like I'm being punished for something. I don't even know what I did. All I did was be born.
Here my moms the vulnerable and dad is a pedo psychopath. I can tell yall how the whole family continues to support their narrative as my 69 year old dad finally got 30 years in prison. No one could understand how 12 jurors saw it differently, and both remain in their delusional thoughts.
It’s really shocking how common narcissism seems to be. I wonder if humans have just always been this self-centered and uncaring by nature, or if it’s more of a nurture thing due to culture, specifically in the USA. The zeitgeist in the US since the 50/60’s on has been very narcissistic in nature, promoting the lone wolf mentality of “it’s you vs everyone else, take care of what you want and need above anyone else”. That combined with the tendencies of social media to greatly exacerbate self-centeredness, I believe, has led us to have a culture of narcissism.
It’s sad, really. So many people go through their entire lives not even considering the impact of their behaviors on the people around them; whether that be family members, partners, children, friends, coworkers, or even strangers. So many people are so constantly wrapped up in their own little selfish, neurotic worlds that they have no idea how badly they affect those around them.
My narc went to counseling and immediately started using it all against me. It made everything worse. So, that's also a thing that may happen. But that's when you have to choose YOU. Nothing else will change them. Therapy is hard enough when you WANT to change.
I thought I was pessimistic in the past but after meeting my husband he really is the dark cloud. It’s so draining being around him, all I want is to be happy and I feel like our ship is slowly going down at all times
The hatred is ALWAYS there. Even if you have made it up to them for years and years. No interest in healthy moving forward.
Possible, and very unfortunate when it is your parent.
ps5 is lit That is 100% correct. That’s how my husband’s thought process works. He’s been attacking me over him feeling slighted from 10-15 years ago in our relationship. This has gone on for about two years now. And he feels me he doesn’t feel good enough and I validated that for him. (Unintentionally- but to him it was an attack)
If the narcissist does show interest in a healthy moving forward that happens most of the time when the consequences of their prior bad behavior would be lowered in dramatic fashion right away as soon as any effort on their part starts to be made --
Which often turns out to be short lived. Once you have been through that disappointment during one narcissistic relationship then you can sometimes see the signs of malignant narcissism in others earlier on than other people who have never been through it themselves can.
@@Tara-id3rk It's tricky isn't it, whatever the slighting was 10/15 years ago must be a real sore point? Hope he gets over it!
@cori wood how did it end for you 😬?
I'm not sure if this trait actually aligns with covert narcissists, but with the people from my past I regard as this type of narcissistic, there were two major things I associated with them:
1) an expectation that others should cater to their feelings at all times, and that they should never be inconvenienced or discomforted, but unwilling to reciprocate in this respect
2) over time, I realized that they essentially never proactively did anything for me and would often reject me when I asked for favors and felt like I had to bargain to get any reciprocal care from them. I don't generally expect favors to be returned but it gets a little concerning to realize that the other person in the relationship has never gone out of their way on my behalf over the course of SEVERAL years. It's just a realization that you are there purely at their convenience.
These could probably be seen as resultant actions from their narcissistic traits but I often use them now as concrete barometers for more subtle narcissistic types. It's a way for me to ask if a person really has any regard for my feelings.
You are so right. Ive made the same observation. They are generally so passive and never take responsibility for anything. They use people to cater to their needs but cant lift a finger for you in return unless they really have to but you bet they will do it with self absorbed motives and with so much resentment. They cant ever be bothered, they are sick
Well done!
I’m going to call out (shout out) my boyfriend right now. On Monday I was in an accident and broke my hand. Yes, it’s annoying, but I was capable of taking care of things while I healed. It’s my less dominant hand. I rely on it for a few things, but not most.
My boyfriend is three hours’ flight away finishing his PhD. After the accident, at the hospital, I noticed a lot of messages from him and he was concerned because I hadn’t responded so I explained that I was in an accident and my hand was most likely broken and I would message soon.
He got on a plane and was with me by 6pm Monday evening.
Did he need to do that? Of course not. I was ok. But he did it. He did it without ceremony. He just showed up. And was with me all week helping out with things like laundry and groceries.
I feel kind of bad, because it was a huge inconvenience for him. And all he said was “I have your back.”
It’s what people do that is important. Watch what they do. Guy is a saint. I’m very lucky to have someone like this in my life.
Actually got that in mine too
Yes being that type of narcissist I can confirm but for me it's not because I don't care. It's because I don't trust. I have a general lack of trust because of my past experiences. Yes there's some kind of vulnerability that makes us more expectant than proactive.
The constant negativity has driven me insane.the glass is not just 1/2 empty,it’s empty with these narcissists. I used to think catastrophic damages and the world ending when I listened to him so I quit listening.Everything was a disaster waiting to happen whenever I made a decision without him because of course he thought I made the wrong decision.The poor listening really really hits home!They don’t listen or give any feedback at all,you might as well be talking to a brick wall.thanks so so much for sharing this knowledge, I am soaking it up like a sponge.
Constant hatred or I would use the word distain. Knowing that they will ways disagree with you or take the other side of every conflict even siding with complete strangers. Constant feeling of judgment. Dark cloud is ever present because you never get anything back from the relationship. My ex, in front of our kids, told me that I don't get credit for being a good father, husband or provider. Those are expectations of me and I don't get nor deserve credit for "doing the right thing."
I don't need to be told thank you for these things but when I was under constantly being compared to other men, her dad, her brother, her friend's husband, the counselor we saw, my response was that I'm me, I'm not any of those people. That's when I asked am I not a good father, husband or provider? To which the aforementioned response was given. I was shocked! After 25 years of marriage she says that to me? Then what in the hell determines my worth? I could have chosen to be a shitty husband, father or poor provider. The effort and wear and tear on me would have been a lot less but that's not me and I worked very hard to not be thought of as lacking in my primary responsibilities. And I never was given credit I was never told thank you and I was absolutely ok with that. I was not ok with being told I didn't deserve that credit. The one time I asked, after 25 years, to get that unexpected response knocked me dizzy. It's like I wasn't in Kansas anymore Totto.
Best video ever!
Obviously, the degree of each varies but the Vulnerable NARC in my life is like this.
One thing I might add is: PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE.
Thank you so much for this video. I have just finished the 2nd session with my psychiatrist and almost at the end, she told me that I have all the signs of a vulnerable narcissists. So I went online to check all the available info on this subject.
Everything you said in this video is true. I really struggle with myself every day and sometimes it is exhausted trying to live up to your own expectations of yourself. I do want to change and I understand that after struggling with that for so many years it will not be a one week-month-year job.. It is a long process but I really really want to change :) Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!
Is there any progress?
Well done! that is one huge thing to do in life, one of the best you can do!! I urge you, be serious about it please and give ur life to Jesus! all the best.
I relate to 3-4 traits, looking back when I left home 7 years ago and lived at a distance from my grandiose-narcissist dad, I would've related to even more traits. A lot of these traits are embodied by Nice guys, which was interesting for me to know. It takes many years of continuous self-reflection and work, irrespective of gender. And as long as one doesn't deny the narcissism and is aware of it it's already a good step forward :)
Great good on you and best of luck in your healing journey.
It makes me feel better when I see someone post that has it. I’m struggling with this new guy I’m seeing…I just really am. It’s been very very hard. I think sense he messed with peoples minds when he was younger (borderline sociopath) then had three brain tumors it really messed him up. His mom doesn’t help either by having him stay at her house it’s not creating any growth for him. Him never being in a relationship until he met me. I’m just trying to figure out what God wants from me at this point.
I too also struggle with letting things go.
I’m so confused I love his church, he is sweet and tries but I think because he grew up with his father who was a mean person until he met Jesus he has this meanness in him also. 😢
I set a boundary with him today and told him I couldn’t help with serving. It was really hard and I felt like I’m letting him down but I’m afraid. Idk how to deal with this.
Feels weird to listen to someone talking about me like that(being a vulnerable narcissist). Shout out to all vulnerable narcissists out there who are trying to be better humans. My heart goes out to you. It is tough but you can do it.
Some days it feels like opting out would be better
I finally feel like I'm not crazy. It all makes sense now. I somehow managed to break off a 2 year relationship with a person like this. I've never felt more crazy or detached from reality than I did during those 2 years. I didn't really know much about this at the time though. I just had this feeling that I'm not crazy, I'm not the monster she made me out to be so she could play the victim, I was never being unreasonable. I loved her. And I always will i think. But I couldn't stand for one more day to apologize for fights I didn't cause or feel like I'm actively being hated by the person I'm supposed to be in love with. I couldn't stand to watch her intentionally flirt with other people in front of me because she wanted "revenge" because she saw me talking to a girl at some point that day. I couldn't take the constant jabs at my insecurities that I had told her about in confidence. Things I'd never told another soul. I had enough. I had tried to leave her several times but this time I meant it. I spit out all the things I'd been wanting to say for so long. It felt great. I was the one getting my anger out for once. Then I told her I hoped she got the help she needed one day. She's a wonderful person deep down, even if I stopped being able to see it. Then I blocked her on literally everything immediately. Didn't cry or feel bad at all. In fact my coworkers said I seemed like I was better than I had been in a long time. I had already cried over the end of this relationship over and over and over again. I had already finished mourning it by the time it died. I wish I could warn her next SO about her. But maybe they'll be stronger than me. Anyways, I love you Maddie. I literally always will. Even if I wish I didnt. I never lied when I said you were my soul mate. I genuinely believe you are. But I hope you rot in hell. I lost a lot of my friends because of your need to play the victim and badmouth me to the people I cared about the most to make yourself look innocent. But I can make new friends. I can be happy again. You're going to be stuck miserable like that forever. And you absolutely deserve it.
P.s. fuck you to my boss for saying "I don't think she's that bad, you're overexaggerating, she's only 5'2" people like you are the reason things like this happen in silence. Okay I'm done, byeeee
Thank you for sharing your story with us ❤ I had the same experience with my ex
A vampire, or a victim- it depends on who's around.
in my experience they are both, and just flip it around depending what they can get away with. many abusive people in life focus on being a victim, even when nothing very terrible has happened to them. They just learned from a young age that someone in their life gave them what they wanted when they played victim.
Dr Larry Mitchell...U2 Stay reference? One of my favorite songs of theirs, not too well known.
Aphex?
Nice!
@@johnfinley373 Yes.
I never knew what a narcissist was until the last man I dated...never experienced anything like it before at 50 so lucky me. I got wildly mixed signals from him from love bombing & gifts to constantly texting an ex while on our 3rd or 4th date. He was so textbook covert narcissist that just putting his behaviors into a Google search popped up covert narcissist. I watch your videos periodically along with other research to help me not make that same mistake ever again. Thank you!
You're welcome :)
I was in a relationship with a person with BPD for 2 years and by the end, the "dark cloud" came to exactly represent my life! I woke up in the morning afraid to be yelled at if there was a single thing out of place in the house, would frequently be randomly berated and drawn into arguments with no possible apology, and was made to feel like a terrible and worthless person. I've now been out from under that cloud for about 3 months, and i'm finally starting to see the positivity in my life again. I truly understand how "contagious" these disorders are now. If anyone you know has these traits, DO NOT allow them the chance to hurt you. They will do it without trying.
Most people with borderline personality disorder aren’t like that.
@@sartrecamus386 Everything is a Either or. Let alone -
*Caae-by-Case* Situation
If they live with you it's difficult for them to leave , short of a court order & hell until they leave .
I’m so happy for u, u are free at last! The dark cloud is insidious and covers the entire sky. Oppressive!
@@billg9502 sometimes money will work.
Extremely accurate. On sign #9, my covert-narc would become territorial when my son came to visit, and it went to the extent of bad-mouthing him. Those attacks were the trigger point to get rid of this person. Thanks for sharing, Dr. Grande!
A lot of these signs also apply to a parent-child relationship where the parent has vulnerable narcissism. In searching around online it seems that many people have experienced what they believe is vulnerable narcissism in one of their main caregivers. I think covering parent-child vulnerable narcissism would be a helpful video.
Please make a video about parent child relationships when the parents has vulnerable narcissism
Yes. My mother is a vulnerable narc. But many of these points made in this video do pertain To the abuse of a mother daughter narc relationship,
I see that type of relatioship in my family, but its my youngest brother(16) that is the narcisist. He is getting almost every point on here.
At 16, he may yet grow out of it. Keep tabs on him though.
yes i agree with you so much. the reason i even watched this video (while binging on this guys channel lol) was because i suspected my dad of being a vulnerable narc... and although he doesnt have every single trait, it still is pretty close to the point where i can confirm he is one. but fortunately after years of struggles i think my dad has finally realized the error of his ways and has actually began to change. so things have been good with him these past few months. there was also change on my end since ive realized how similar i am to him and have made it a goal of mine to not grow up and act how he has. living with a vulnerable narc can leave you with more confusion on if the situation is actually abusive versus a grandiose narc
This channel must go in the top 10 list of the least toxic channels on TH-cam.
this really opened my eyes to what I've been suffering with the past year. he always blamed the jealousy and accusations on his anxiety so I just let it go, not realizing how draining it was on me. all 10 signs described him to a t. I only broke up with him 3 days ago and was doubting my decision because he told me he'd change, but this brought clarity to my decision and I can't thank you enough.
People like that don't change. Don't go back. I made the mistake and it was a waste of time and energy.
My ex used to call them "my little insecurities." Sure, fn accusing me of screwing around every ten minutes, screwing someone on the way home from the drugstore, having people over after work when I was shopping for groceries for supper and then cooking it all, going for my 20-minute walk at night. Exhausting. I finally literally threw the kitchen table at him when he pushed me too far (purposely I suspect) and said, "Damn, I guess I have to move out now, huh?"
I'm a narcissist genuinely trying to get better to repair my marriage as my wife and I are currently separated, but still living in the same house. I've been seeing a counselor for about 2 months now and I'm working on trying to love unconditionally and not transactionally. I don't have a formal diagnosis, but I'm thinking at least a third of the things pointed out in these videos are relatable to me. On the "10 Signs of a Husband with Narcissistic Traits" video I strongly agree that I have 4 out of the 10 traits and could possibly see 1-2 more just not to the extreme as outlined in the video.
I find it completely unsettling that most all of these videos on TH-cam are how to deal with a narcissist, but no direct advice for people that might be narcissistic. I've been watching as many videos as I can find dealing with narcissistic abuse as examples of what not to do. Dr Grande it would be really fantastic if you can make a video directly addressing narcissistic people and the steps that they can take to begin becoming better. Obviously finding a counselor and going to them is probably the number one step. I'm looking for any other advice that you can give.
Thank you!
Yes! What you’re describing is exactly how my ex boyfriend behaved. I have been certain for the last year that he is a vulnerable narcissist and your explanation confirms it for me. I don’t feel the need to label him but it helps me understand what I went through. Thank you.
You're welcome!
ive had the exact same experience with an ex boyfriend, currently in therapy because of the trauma he has caused
I think I may have went through the same too. I legitimately feel bad for him though because I think that it is very likely he's like that because of how he grew up. Neglected, feeling like he can't rely on anyone and having to become very independent very fast.
Same here! I’ve been attempting to understand the behaviour of my ex also, especially considering the impact of his emotional abuse on my mental health. Every single sign Dr Grande has mentioned was used by my ex.
It does feel somewhat of a relief to have a degree of clarification, especially if I notice red flags in a future relationship. I will know to get the hell out of there ASAP!
I think I may be a vulnerable narcissist it’s very interesting.
Wow, I can't believe how much those symptoms describe my entire life. I have known for a while that I had some serious narcissism issues but always started doubting it when symptoms included extroversion, low neuroticism and other things like that. It's crazy to think that most of my stress and worry are delusions about the world.
The dark cloud you mentioned is spot on, I am constantly followed by this intense dread, panic, anger and paranoia about others intentions and perceptions about me. I always (and I mean always) think that people are either intimidated or jealous of me about something. I am constantly on the edge, take things way too personally and it feels like I am addicted to arguing with people about the most pointless things. It's like I'm just waiting until there's a disagreement so that I can present my argument. Arguing is like a relief valve and winning an argument makes you feel like you at least know that one thing. I often times have to disguise my arguing as just being really curious about a particular topic because if I don't convince someone of something every day I feel like someone else my tell them something and I wouldn't get the "credit".
I'm incredibly shy, anxious and depressed yet still often times fantasize about my "eminent success". It's a really debilitating state to be in. I feel like I am a superior human being yet my over anxious brain wont even let me think sometimes which makes me feel like a failure which then leads to more defense mechanisms of the ego.
Anger is one of the hardest parts. I will stay mad at someone for literally months if they so much as cut me off while driving. Subsequently, I will have constant and recurrent thoughts about the incident and replay it in my mind until I have a perfect "game plan" for the next time it happens. Obsessively. However, it never goes away. I am still mad about the smallest things even years later and I sometimes have panic attacks knowing that I might think about something that will make me mad and lose the rest of my day. When it was at its worst I would ruminate about pointless slights like that for 6 to 8 hours a day without being able to do anything else. It was like a prison made from my own ego. Sometimes I don't even want to leave the house in case I come across someone who challenges me and I don't get a chance to humiliate them. Sounds stupid but it's an intense emotion that's incredibly difficult to control.
My dad is a 'grandiose' narcissist and I feel like early on in my life I was the same way. However, over time he eventually pushed me into the covert version of the disorder through constant bouts of verbal and emotional abuse. Eventually I clammed up, but the narcissism never went away. He would bring up small things we did wrong for decades... it was really harmful and he never let anything go unless he had re-framed himself as the one in the right. I remember early on in my life vowing to do everything in my power to not be like my dad and it's been an internal war ever since then. There's a part of me that hates how my dads behavior affected his whole family and yet now that I feel exactly what he was feeling it really puts thing into perspective for me. Not trying to justify any abuse, but narcissists really are suffering inside.
I have become very aware of how my narcissism might affect those around me and I am constantly managing my thoughts and actions. I have given my fiance all my "inside tricks" in order to protect her from myself and other narcissists out there. I also catch myself all the time in pre-manipulation mode and just say my game plan out loud in order to deflate it. I feel like if I can raise my kids in a calmer and more loving environment they will grow up without as much narcissism.
One last thing, I strongly believe that narcissism and schizophrenia are linked in many ways. It seems that a covert narcissist is a failing grandiose narcissist while a schizophrenic is a failed one. That is, the complete loss of the ego by some perceived or real utter defeat will cause a narcissist to break down. I believe this is what happened to my uncle who developed paranoid schizophrenia in his 20's. Some trauma might happen that they simply cannot reconcile with their idea of self greatness and it torments them into chronic shame, anxiety and depression. It's like a million narcissistic injuries at once.
I can relate so much! I really hate myself as I see each and every discussion as arguing and have to start with presenting my "side" to the person who, if I think about it, never said anything to argue my point, but I only feel that they want to invalidate it, and I need to push harder and harder to show how it's valid and I'm the one who's right. I don't feel like people are jealous, but that they want to put me down and that they don't see me as an equal to them, while in my mind I'm definitely better than most of those people. It's ridiculous at times as e.g. I know my husband is smarter than me overall and has more knowledge in some areas that I find boring and complicated, but I still feel like I need beat him to something, I need to be better and smarter than him, because there shouldn't be anyone who's better than I am, while I don't live in phantasy that it's true, but can't change own feelings. And if someone tells a story I feel urge to tell mine, it should be much cooler, and it's frustrating when I just don't have a better story! Even this answer is like that, I'm a bad storyteller, but can't stop it.
I totally became a better person when I moved out from my parents, they're not bad people, but I can't be around my mother for a long time, it's like each thing she does makes me incredibely angry, when she just came back home I was already furious after only hearing the door and for the fast she'll try to interact with me again, it's interesting as I remember being around 6 when I couldn't take it she had to work night shifts and I cried because of her leaving.
I can't feel angry for person I love constantly, in fights I do remember small things I hated, but overall it's mostly my on small mistakes like saying a word wrong way or just an awkward situation that should've not happened, like you I am replaying those situations again and again, I'm quite tired of that.
Sometimes I wander if I'm a covert or vulnerable narcissist. I used to be very optimistic. I think I'm forgiving but I never forget. Ever since my husband and mom died and then I got involved with an abusive man I have felt under a dark cloud and I find I'm having difficulty letting go of things I'd thought I had forgiven. I hate drama and I hate arguing. Because of this I isolate as much as possible. I don't trust people like i used to so opening up with anyone is difficult. I'm now cynical and pessimistic. Quite frankly I feel like I've lost myself in the aftermath of all the trauma I've been through. Sounds like a victim mindset and that's never been me. I'm worn down and in desperate need to get back to who I used to be.
A narcissist definitely wouldn't be this candid on an online forum about their weaknesses and/or struggles. I think that you've been through a heck of a time in life and these things do pile up mentally if they aren't dealt with, and can result in a general negative outlook on life. You are still beating yourself up about those past traumas and situations. Phrases like: "I shouldn't have trusted them, I should have been smarter, I wish I left sooner, I wish I knew what I know now back then" etc are just going to serve into the negative thoughts. What helped me was finding a hobby I enjoyed and I spoke to a counsellor for about eight weeks. It just added a "completeness" to that chapter of my life so I could move forward. Sometimes, just getting perspective from a completely non-invested party is a great way to sort the mental tangle out.
You sound like a normal person to me who needs some time out to recover and to process your emotions. Homeopathic mecines and accupuncture would help you as would healthy living and allowing yourself to get back to being yourself. 🙂
Thank you for typing this. I have been in this stage now for close to 2 years in Feb 2023. Worrying constantly about how evil I am and how I caused everything and just general self-gaslighting. Hoping I can get back to what I love soon, and I hope you can get back to your life soon as well. Thank you for being so honest, I don't feel as crazy while I go through this now
It’s not a victim mentality if you’ve recently been victimized. Having a victim mentality is constantly talking about shit that you should be over by now for way longer than it is productive.
I wanted to reach out and maybe save you a few years. My opinion only- adults CAN be victimized however, remaining a victim makes you a volunteer. Children are true victims. They are trapped. If you’re over 18? Get some help to deal. There’s nothing personal about this abuse. Consider that a storm came and knocked your house down around you. It sucks, but you need to sort out what’s still usable and let go of the rest. Get some help. If you had a car accident you aren’t expected to heal your own broken leg. You HAVE been hurt, and possibly badly. There is no more YOU as you were. Embrace the new version. Most people do NOT have our best interest in mind , they have their own best interest in mind. Ignorance is bliss until you are face to face with a predator.
You need time to heal. You need to get help from people who GET what has happened to you, most therapy I’ve had ranged between mediocre and dangerous. If you need a heart transplant you definitely check credentials, your brain , heart and soul have been willfully massacred. Get the best practitioner you can.
Remember: do not base your self worth on someone else’s option of you. Happy secure people have no need to denigrate anyone to feel good.
Narcs wouldn’t know what LOVE is if it smacked them in the face. The sooner you accept your role in this shared fantasy is when you can begin transforming into the best possible version of yourself. Bring a backbone for this process. You can dispense of it in 30 days if you don’t like it. Do not isolate. Nothing spiritually positive can GROW in the dark.
Become the one who can recognize and reach out in love to the next victim you encounter, for a start……my heart goes out to you.
I did not wake up one day wishing I could find an emotional abuser to wreak maximum havoc in my life. When the unthinkable happened to me- well I would still be there today had I not recognized the personal deficiencies that made me a prime target, with a sign on my back”GRADE A PRIME SUPPLY RIGHT HERE”
Constant hatred this nails it! It is always there no matter what you do. It's like walking on eggshells. They will never tell you whats going on but you feel It. He really hates you and he is therefore becoming your worst enemy. Run fast if you are surrounded by a person like this!
Gets worse over time, until they're ALWAYS an a**hole, pretty much. Until they want you back. Then they'll play nice guy.
Thanks for this video!
What I also saw in my relationship was a continuous complaining about conflicts with others, about being rejected, about being mistreated or not respected by others, etc. With not a single sign of understanding that she could have some responsibility for what happened to her and no real motivation to fix the problems.
Just complaining...
Exactly. Together with that black cloud of negativity & mistrust, it makes for a miserable home. But they're willing to fight about it (or anything) at a moment's notice. Obv it's not their fault!
wow.. so true!
The last one was so spot on. I think it would have been helpful to mention that is one of the reasons people often find it hard to “give up” on these types. They have enough insight to know something is wrong with how they relate to others that it keeps you hoping one day they will figure out what it is they are doing wrong and change.
Yes! False hope. Because they are sensitive they seem soooooo close to being able to change. Yet they don't. So we get burned again from their sabotaging behavior and we have to walk away licking our wounds.
Yes, but never happens!
Omg SO much THIS! I can’t even count the times I left and came back. The battle in my heart and mind was INTENSE, yo! For SO long, I have gone back to read my journal from the beginning, and OH my GAWD- how I LIED to myself! The mental and emotional acrobatics it took me (in my own head) to justify his behavior and keep the veil of denial over my self, it was incredible! All because of this TYPE! Juuuust different enough from “normal” Narcissists that I could continue to convince myself that he ‘wasn’t one, after all’! I remember feeling so elated at first! When I could go back, begging and apologizing (for insisting on normal, human, relationship communication) for the fight. For STARTING the fight, and I would have to soothe and cajole and ass-kiss and praise him FOR DAYS to get him back talking again. Only for him to do the EXACT SAME THING that triggered me before, AGAIN! It took me YEARS to realize that he was doing it ON PURPOSE. And many more years to realize how CONTROLLED I was being, by his punishments and snide sideways comments while he sulked. He had me WELL trained to do his bidding and treat him EXACTLY how he liked. Meanwhile, I get LESS than NOTHING in return, besides permission to LIVE on eggshells, perpetual confusion, anxiety, fear of rejection, fear of abandonment, CONVINCED he was cheating but just too sneaky to get caught. I mean- WOW. Sometimes I look at it objectively like this and I am just blown AWAY and what my life had become. There is literally NO WHERE to go but up from that. It seriously had to get so bad that NOTHING could scare me or be worse than one more day of that torture .
@@Mymymissmisty Wow! You just described in the most accurate way my past relationship. I was going through all this and ended up in therapy due to a major cognitive dissonance. He also mainly controlled me by my fear of abandonment. His sideway comments...!!! All of them had a purely abusive character. He belittled me and my friends/ family. Till the end I couldn't believe he is a bad person. Oh how I lied to myself, how conviced I was, despite all clear signs! Today I'm 100% sure that he cheated on me, he lied literally about everything. He and his new supply are living next to my home now. I want him out of my life.
How are you now and what about your recovery?
That hope will kill you , let it go
You hit the nail on the head. I'm still stunned by the most recent blow up and how his narcissist wound was acted out by rage. He went storming down the street, then demanding I leave with him. Next he demanded that i get into his car so he can drive recklessly all the way home not speaking to me. There's no reconciliation, ever. One minute he's talking down to me, talking over me, projecting, extremely condensending, mocking and shouting accusations. It is exhausting. There is endless criticism, and contempt, always blaming me for everything. He can turn on a dime when someone else comes into the conversation. One moment hes raging at me, The very next moment picks up the phone instantly he's chatting happily with another woman treating her like gold. There's no doubt I have to leave, but I don't know where to go. It's a horrible situation and I feel trapped.
Poor listening skills - oh boy yes! Initially they appear to be really listening but as the relationship progresses it becomes apparent they do not listen- at all. There is an attitude of utter contempt for the words coming out of the person's mouth underlying it too. And absolutely spot on at the disgust at your friends. There is also dim insight that something is wrong, its quite interesting. All of your points were spot on. Vulnerable narcissists are so hard to live with, be in relationship with.
Dark cloud, doom, gloom, negativity, victim mentality, numerous empty promises to change but is seemingly unable to, jealousy, controlling, manipulating with their emotions. Thank you for your wisdom! It helps to hear definitions of what my entire marriage has been like with a man who I believe slides between vulnerable narcissist and covert narcissist. It's been an emotionally exhausting experience with him over the past 33 years. I hope he seeks the help he desperately needs but I'm finally moving on to a healthier lifestyle!
Spiritual awakening has given me so much insight and awareness about my own harmful behaviors toward myself and others. And it’s been very humbling. I was willing to be honest with myself, to take responsibility for my behavior with kindness and compassion. By loving myself, I came to understand my unchanging worth. That love started to ripple out to others too. Internal, insightful work takes practice and patience. There’s always hope because healing is “open-ended” as someone I admire once said. To me, that means it’s never impossible.
May I ask how you came to awakening? What was that powerful trigger?
Spiritual awakening and spiritual practice is the only way to transcend this level of being.
Signs you were raised by one or more narcissists from my own experience:
1. Do you feel like you can’t do anything right?
2. Do you feel like you do things with selfish intent after the fact and only after speaking with this person?
3. Do you feel like you are not good enough?
4. Do you find yourself saying “OMG, I am SOOOO sorry!!!” instead of “Pardon” or “Excuse me”
5. Do you entertain physically abusive relationship(s)?
6. Do you seek perfection in everything you do?
7. Do you seek approval from others as often as possible?
8. Are you overly concerned wi5h pleasing others?
9. Do you give too many gifts or spend too much money on others?
10. Do you pretend to be happy and fake a happy facial expression even in the midst of your most negative emotions?
11. Do you have any self harm habits or unhealthy addictions?
12. Are you mistrusting if most people until they prove they are worthy?
13. Do you have depression, OCD, and/or PTSD?
14. Do you dread being alone?
15. Are you overly sensitive?
16. When someone says something negative, are you paranoid that it’s about you?
17. Do you set unreasonable goals for yourself to outperform this person?
18. Do you feel like you can’t be transparent and honest with this person?
19. Do you say yes when you want to say no?
20. Do you lie about views you have for fear of rejection?
Etc…….
Not anymore! Years of therapy. But it works! X
Oh the bad memories. It's been 13 years since I last saw my ex vulnerable narc, and I am still thinking about the bewilderment, pain and confusion his behaviours had on me. Cruel, changeable, constant wingeing about the distant past, killjoy, rude, aggressive, arrogant, abrasive. I never knew what was coming next. Total mind fuck. He was the love of my life....soul destroying.
Another concise, brilliant analysis. I find that these people live for drama. They find it in others or create it in their own life. They tend to be shy and limited in conversation unless you bring up something that will allow them to criticize others and then they open up. Seldom do things just run smoothly. They tend to procrastinate doing things and at the last minute they react with stress and completely decompensate. This is when they act out even more to the people they are close too.
Precisely!
They confuse respect with fear and contentment with boredom, my ex was draining it never rained only poured, he could have friends and options I could not, hell he once gave me a three hour lecture on how to cook 2 minute noodles, he would tell me how lucky I was to have him and without him I was nothing, I asked if he could do better why hadn’t he
For the longest time whenever Dr. Grande would say 'neuroticism' I would hear 'eroticism' and think it was an odd characteristic to use in the five factor model
Me too 😁🤭
🤣Thx for sharing that, pretty amusing. 😍
Me three!
He always guilt tripped me, and isolated me from all my closest friends. you always hit all the points.
I didn’t know men would be like this .
I was in a relationship like this for 3 years. The attacks were verbal and emotional but it was because we didnt live together. But I believe with all my heart that if we did it would have became severe physical abuse. Everything that went wrong was always my fault and rarely theirs. I was constantly being accused of cheating or trying to annoy them purposefully. I was always on edge and terrified to mess up cause it felt like I was walking through a mine field or on egg shells. They would explode on me and punish me for things i didnt do and i constantly had to apologize no matter what. They were allowed to do what they wanted and say what they wanted when they were angry and I would try to be patient and understanding but when I finally would get fed up and react like yell, cry, or want to leave. they would act like the victim and say i knew you were like this, this is the real you and call me sneaky and fake and again accuse me of cheating which would nothing to do with the issue at all. I was called many unspeakable names. I constantly felt like I was never enough. Always...always having to prove myself and my worth. Constantly breaking up with me and telling me how horrible of a person I was and how they should and could have someone better and more beautiful. Every effort I made was turned into nothing even when it nearly impossible for me to do what they wanted when i finally did i was made to feel like it was nithing and that they always did more for me than I did for them. They accused me of "changing" when I got a good paying job. Never wanted me to have friends. I was only allowed to be around and call my family without them badgering me. I wasn't allowed to talk about how I felt or how they made me feel. It would be turned into how i made them feel or what i did/ accused of doing 2 years ago. I was forced to hold things inside and not show any signs outside of happiness and affection unless they allowed me to. If I did I was accused of being fake, cheating, or being sadistic and trying to ruin their mood. And also played the victim saying I was making them feel and seem like I monster when I "know" i provoked them. They projected their behavior on me and accused me of the things they were doing and feeling. I was constantly critisized on everything i liked wanted to do and wasnt allowed to voice any opinion contrary to them or I would have to pay. I was made to feel bad for being afraid of violence and blood which they loved to watch these movies and graphic videos and I was told that i was being dramatic, manipulating and trying to make excuses not to watch what they wanted. I was made to feel like I didn't love them because I felt like they hated me because of how they were acting. I was told to not pass them off and I wouldn't have to suffer these things. They did apologize after each time they hurt me. And acknowledged they were paranoid and or wrong some of the time. Other times i was told they are sure i did wrong but they shouldn't have acted like that and I should stop provoking them. Which eventually became a cycle of abuse. Where things were good then the ice would get thin. And then as soon as they had any outside stresses or triggers eventually another unexpected explosion of anger. I finally had to end things after being called a racial slur too many times to remember. I was made to feel guilty for leaving and like I used them to overcome my depression cause i promised not to leave them. But this video and the information you provided gave me the confirmation I needed to end it and find healthy people to be in my life. There were too many failed attempts at changing and i was being hurt so bad. But I can be at peace now. Thank you so very much ❤️
Wow. A 15 minute summary of my marriage. Thank you!
Melinda Schink,You deserve better 🙏🙏🙏
Whoa. Every one of them describes my girlfriend’s attitude toward me. I have not yet been forgiven for realizing I cannot move far away from my son. He is very young and lives with his mother but I still need to be close to him and see him. I was accused for months of having an affair with her. Still does occasionally, but not as often. Jealousy of any attention given to anything in my life, including my truck and mother, sex as a confirmation of love, attempts of change after bad arguments and underlying distaste of me. She calls me a narcissist often. Sometimes I wonder if I am one, since I get called that so much, which led me to these videos. I have displayed some traits from time to time, but learning that everyone has some narcissistic traits sometimes. Very informative! Knowing is half the battle when trying to tune up your less productive qualities! Thank you! Keep up the good work!
wickidflash Almost everyone has narcissistic traits. Not everyone.
Lol omg u people. Grow up n stop believing in B.S.
If he is she is decent that's great. If they are not then they have a mental issue..lol
I hope you stay close to your son no matter what. He needs you. No girlfriend should expect any less!
Thank you for this video. This described my ex boyfriend almost 100%. It was exhausting, too much stress, and the uncontrollable jealousy, etc. The best thing I did for myself is to walk away.
The listening skills you all about are so accurate. My husband is already thinking about his comeback while I’m still talking. We can both hear the same thing from the same person and it’s as though he and I were hearing two completely different things.
Nancy Jacobski,You don't need a narcissist 😈 in your life.....
Hearing the term "oscillating" caught my attention. I had asked that question once here in the comments:
can they switch between the types of narcissism?
I was (and still am) convinced I was in a relationship with a narcissist.
It seemed when things were going his way, the fabricated stories began. He bragged, he idealized certain people. He was very grandiose... and as others described him, "excitable".
When he was in crisis (which was often) the pity party started. He became very negative, jealous, envious, paranoid, and hateful. Blaming everyone, especially me...and never owning any of his actions.
On a daily basis he was always entitled, demanding, self- absorbed. It seemed like his "wheels were always turning" as he would sit quietly, smoking and ruminating. Calculated
and CREEPY.
Oof ...so glad Im away from him.
Yes! Exactly! Usually they have a clear tendency towards one state (grandiose or depressive), but on occasions they move from one state to the other, just like normal people move from high aspiration and hope to sadness and hopelessness. And during such transition they demonstrate almost all the traits of the opposite narcissist type
@@NTraveller Indeed. It really makes sense when you think about it!
Champagne Supernova 13
Wished I was so glad like you are, but nope! Miss her like crazy, and’ll go back to her tomorrow if at all possible.
Can we say Perpetually Trauma Bonded. 💔
@@renep7008 I don't know how recent your break up was or how it happened, but I wish you strength to move on. 🙏
I am fortunate to be the kind of person who does well on their own. As I get older, I have less tolerance for nonsense.
Champagne Supernova 13
I used to be intolerant, and especially fickle when it came to dating and women, but as I get older, I’m finding I am more accepting of the bs, and a lot less prone to ditch her. Seems yours and my, two ships are passing in the night.
I feel emancipated after this.
Me too. Understanding them is the first step to healing.
Copy That.
🎯🐺❣️
@@cyberspelunker1980 ,,
@@glyph241 fun username!
Me too. Never understood the two types and although my ex seemed to have some grandiose narcissistic tendencies, he was also anxious, depressed, insecure, etc. What really nailed it for me was the part about their jealousy of others. Omg!! The guy was always criticizing and picking fights with my friends on Facebook. Exhausting!!
All 10 spot on fits me. Especially the last one. I really want to change who I am but it is so hard. I find writing journals could help me reflect on and rein in my vulnerable narcissistic tendency. Thanks a lot for letting me know myself better.
I have been married to a vulnerable/ covert narcissist for 6 years. Absolute nightmare. It's like banging your head on the same brick wall. This describes him to a T. We still have the same issues as we did 5 years ago. Nothing gets resolved. Control and jealousy. BPD can have some vulnerable narcissist traits but people with BPD have an overwhelming empathy. Narcissist do not. People with BPD know they have an issue and recognize it. Narcissist do not. Narcissist will never change . Your best bet is to get out and hope one day they will realize and seek help but it's not likely.
This beings me chills from my previous relationship of nearly 5 years.
A year later and it still has a massive impact on me. I've lost a lot of confidence in myself and who I am. I'm regaining it slowly, but I literally lost a large part of who I am after 5 years with this person.
Me to hun , I understand but we got this 🙏🏾💪🏾 it was all a lesson we got through
The very fact that they zero in on you means they see something of value there that they want, so on one level they know you have worth. So should you.
With covert narcissists there is a numbness total lack of empathy.
I tried to speak to my partner about empathy , he literally squirmed then exploded with rage. He went into one of his violent destructive episodes. These could last up 2 4 hours.
At one stage he did this every day .
But....I guarantee--only to YOUR stuff.
Did you ca the cops? Because if that was EVERY DAY, I'd be calling them EVERY DAY.
Watch how fast they calm down when the cops show up and you're furious. It's a scam. Planned. Nevee lose it no matter what they did.
I'm honestly just now realizing exactly how damaging my marriage was to my health. I watched this video and broke down. The way you vividly described my exwife in every detail really opened my eyes
If I´ve had the chance to watch this video 15 years ago that would have spared me and my kids a lot.
Dr Grande is excellent with his analysis. He does maybe slightly downplay the nastiness with which these people are manifestly capable.
Dr Grande is just calm, objective and clinical here. This is the way psychologists talk about mental disorders.
He’s giving a lesson, much like a Psych Prof, here, not dealing with a therapy client.
No doubt he is sympathetic to the damage caused by abuse when he is the therapist of a person who has been the victim of this kind of abuse.
Remember, it’s critical a therapist understand your abuse “as if” they were you. Not if we’re them. They’d burn out in a week if they couldn’t separate themselves from the client/patient.
Sir you truly have a grasp of this pathology. What’s disturbing is how similar all these people behave. I have first hand experience with these behaviors. You “nailed” the description of how these people function. Thank You 🙏
Archon BUSTER isn’t it crazy that they all behave SO similarly?! I cannot wrap my head around it. It’s like they all read the same book or watch the same documentary. It’s kind of scary.
Archon BUSTER Dr Grande is a great Professor/teacher. His calm manner is reassuring.
@@PathologicallyIncurious it's their programming, school and society really instills these behavioral problems
Whew, just emerged from an 8-year-long relationship with someone who exhibited 9/10 of these traits, and whom I also suspected of being Borderline. The relationship damn near killed me, as the Dark Cloud never lifted for a minute, and I was often left wondering, “Are you not grateful for anything?!” The arguments out of nowhere, with personal insults used as an accelerant. She was convinced I was having affairs, and I’d deflate her by stating, “I can barely manage just with you, so why would I want to double my workload?” Never listened to me, and we never had adult conversations. Was always convinced that I didn’t love her, yet she truly was everything to me. It was the hardest slog of my life, and as soon as she obviously devalued and split me for the very first time, I left, as there is nothing on earth worth that mistreatment on top of the hell I was already experiencing with her. Guess what she did then? Called the police, and made a false claim of abuse. It started beautifully, but the last two years with her were the blackest hell imaginable. I feel sorry for the next guy.
This really hits home. My no longer, best friend constantly walked around under this “dark cloud.” I wish I could have recognized her negativity and victim complex as narcissism before it turned into a total smear campaign against me where she portrayed herself as a victim. She needs help. I really hope the best for her in life, but I’ve felt so much better since cutting her out of my life.
Good for you! 🙂
Thank you for doing this.
I thought I was crazy.
I never understood why he was jealous when everyone in my life sees me as trustworthy. I never understood why he hated my friends ... when they’re the nicest people I’ve ever met and I’m grateful for them. He always wanted me to end the conversation.. even if I had been with him all day. He didn’t even want me to be around my cousins... or aunts/uncles.
I never understood why I couldn’t let him go, but now I get that is because he would try his best to change but couldn’t. Every argument was about him being the victim... and I was always the bad one.
He did use sex to “prove” my love .. it was weird like.. It’s like he needed sex as a reinforcement. And he was definitely self centered... everything always had to do with him. Everything. All. The. Time. He would get jealous if I got a bonus or if I got promoted. But it almost seemed like he loved seeing me down... when life would give me curve balls.. he always seemed so happy and ready to be my rock. But he could never celebrate my achievements.
He was a kind person. He’s got issues that I tried my best to help with but ultimately we ended things because he knew his narcissistic traits were hurting me.
I know this is late,but I went through the same thing..I thought i was crazy and felt so much guilt in the beginning for thinking these things because as you said he is a kind person but...I always felt like he was the happiest when I was at my worst..It felt like i was in a never-ending cycle for 4 years and he still tries to contact me.. being in a relationship like this is so confusing and damaging to the point that you question your sanity
I can definitely relate to all of this.
Bravo...enjoy your best life now😁👍
You were lucky. Some NPD's will try to ruin you and your reputation even after the relationship ends and if there are young children involved they will turn your children into "flying monkeys" that will side with them against you.
wow...this hit home.
Thank you for covering this specific topic. I'm speechless...this is spot on.
You are quite welcome!
@@DrGrande thank you, your videos help a lot!!! I have a question though, if you can answer me, if the vulnerable narcissist go to therapy (which is the case for months now) will it help ? Is it better if I stay and wait (will it help?), or let go and leave ?
Your insights and knowledge are extremely helpful. Thank you.
Yes. I agree.... Spot On! Every single action and characteristic you mentioned is an exact description of my husband. I can't believe theres actually a name for it.
EVERYTHING you discussed describes how my life has been with my STBX covert (vulnerable) passive aggressive narcissist husband. Everything. I love how you have broken it down in such a matter-of-fact way. After being married for 18 years (together for 25), I finally figured it out 9 months ago and understand that there’s no hope and I’m perfectly okay with our current separation and upcoming divorce. I’m worn out, but…I’m looking forward to better days. 🙏🏾😊
You’ve just described my life. I noticed very early on in our relationship that something was wrong. Being very young & trying to voice my concerns, the way I put it was “I don’t think you love me the same way I love you”. Well, that was actually right. We’ve been married decades now & the “something wrong” has just gotten worse & worse & worse. It was only in the past year, year & a half, through research & actually accidentally, while looking into someone else’s situation, that I realized exactly what I was dealing w/. This video describes it EXACTLY. Very unsettling & very sad.
Thank you-your videos have helped me a lot-especially to realize that I am not crazy-this is what I’ve been living w/. So, again, thank you.
Can you do one on signs of vulnerable narcisstic abuse in a parent child relationship. Or even more specific mother daughter.
I second this.
@@eev14 Yes, please. Mother and son? These are such painful, deep debilitating situations. I've watched half a dozen women leave my son, but you see, I will never do that because I'm his mom. I have to figure out how to live with a son who is not getting the help he needs. Divorce is not an option when you're a mother.💔
@Ben Hackett Thank you, Ben. I know in my "head", that you are absolutely right. It's my heart, (or maybe codependency) that impacts that choice. The interesting thing is, after I read what you wrote, is that I realized just how estranged we are anyway. He avoids me, except when he needs something from me. I've never been able to say No, because I've accepted the "crumbs." Your comment really resonates with me, as I realized how one person can undermine the family structure. You're right, no one in the family can be happy. Thank you, and I'm sorry you deal with these issues as well.
Father daughter for me 😕. So sorry you are experiencing this too
@@teresahowick5197 Sometimes it helps to know I'm not all alone, but I'm so sorry to know others suffer too. Take care of yourself.❤
Spot on especially the hatred and feeling like there's an explosive that can go off at any time. Regarding the sexuality aspect mine would want sex twice daily then suddenly refuse any time of intimacy and punish me by withholding affection and push me away telling me I'm abusive for wanting to have a loving relationship
Mine did the same thing sexually. Told me that is all that I wanted from the relationship. This had me so confused.
Yes! Mine started out wanting heaps of sex....telling me he was a pervert.....calling me a prude....and then 6 months later i was playing guessing games as to what was wrong because he had no more desire for sex. When i brought it up he lectured me on how unhealthy it is to give in to the desires of ones lower charkras....did a complete 180 without batting an eye and talked condescending towards me when i tried to ask what was going on!!
Same. Married 20 yrs. Met in high school. I’ve always had a high drive and we were fairly active... until about 7 years in, sex dwindled. I started getting upset. He was turning down all hints and advances from me. I panicked thinking I was boring so I started trying to be more sexy, new clothes, lose a little weight, lingerie, be more forward and flirty. All of it pushed him away more. He refused to even acknowledge that he was turning me down, making me feel crazy. He just had excuses or could tell I was interested and would be busy or pick up more shifts at work. I thought maybe he was cheating but that didn’t really add up either. I started googling sexless marriages and went down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. For the past 10 years he was only interested once every 1-2 months. The last 4-5 years, I gave completely up. I declared that I would never ever come on to him again. If he wanted me, come tell me. I was done trying. He still was just indifferent. Avoided me a lot and avoided conversations in general. I tried to be the perfect wife and mom thinking I must’ve offended him in some way in the past but I honestly can’t think of anything other than stupid things like leaving a light on, forgetting to close the garage door on rare occasions, or being so busy with kids that dinner wasn’t planned and handed to him 🙄. But he never would say it out loud. I was only left to guess by observing his behavior. Year 20, I moved out.
Now all of a sudden his sex drive is back like a normal person 🙄
So this proves he didn’t have a medical issue or anything like that.
He finally started trying to explain why he didn’t want it before but it makes no real sense. He rambled something about kids, which I agree was tough when they were small but they are now 10, 12, and 19 so that excuse is no longer valid. And even back then, I tried hard to make time to be alone with him and I wanted him badly. I’d get the kids all settled and then come in the bedroom and shut the door smiling and he’d be too sleepy, too tired, headache, stomachache, etc etc.
Then, one day he randomly stated that the reason was because I drank wine every now and then and he believed I only wanted him from that point on because I’d had some wine.
WTF! This is obviously a tactic to put blame back on me. I wish I knew what the real reason was. I’m not sure if he even knows the reason himself. That’s what is extra confusing. How deliberate are their actions?!?? I guess I’ll never know.
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you went through that
@@heidichambers5665 Yeah, more than likely cheating with every women in a 50 mile radius..
Wow - you just described my lover to a T. Well, we are no longer together.... but it was crazy, the way he would manipulate every debate we had, to make himself into a victim. He was definitely shy, but had a sadistic streak. Was also very unforgiving, and hung up on shame. I stuck around for over 3 years, because i did love him, but i found him too abusive mentally, so in the end i checked out. He would argue with me just to hurt me. It was incredible.
I went out with someone exactly like that. They can drive you insane - specially because they always act so innocent
This is the best channel on Narc abuse I have found, absolutely spot on with everything. My ex also used to hide things like phones & house keys. Until one day I changed the locks, so glad to be free ♥️
My God it's insane how many phones my wife has broken and keys that are never found.
I didn’t realize that my ex-husband was a covert narcissist until our marriage was ending. His mask dropped completely after he began an affair, and was on his way out. Once he was gone, I could see the manipulation that had gone on for years.
The same thing happened in my marriage.
@amy,yeah,same story here. Glad I got out
@@Tara-id3rk me Too.
This is what i think is going on in my life but im so confused. Sometimes i dont know whats real and whats not since ive been with her but i feel i always saw it but ignores it i was laways mad since ive been with her and when i ssaw the relationship ending i know i saw the mask slip off. People think im crazy and i know im not but i get lauged at and it makes it worse.
@@RicardoLopez-ty4kn I’m so sorry. They’re very good at hiding what they are from friends and family. My best friend told me later that she had no idea my ex had been emotionally abusive until near the end too. That kind of abuse can be so subtle, but hurt so much. You know what happened. Don’t let anyone tell you differently.
What I experienced is that they are quiet, very secretive to the point that you are never sure about what's going on. They're also extremely rigid in their decision making and when they feel that you have been disrespectful, they become vindictive. It's very methodical until something upsets their order and then you will see narcissistic rage.
All the symptoms he’s describing are absolutely spot on. Add to that also the narcisstic rage which he’s elaborating on in another video and you get exactly a copy of my ex-girlfriend from 20 Years ago. Also of course with the typical Childhood Trauma Victim Case. Those two years were a hell of a ride, let me tell you that. Like being in a rollercoster with no seat belts on - every time you thought you be falling out of the seat in a loop that thing accelerated again and pushed you back in the seat. It took me nearly four years to mentally and physically recover from that experience and afterwards it made me distrust women for a quite long time. I could also never really figure out what’s the issue with her was mainly because of the many and often conflicting traits she was exhibiting - like being overly vulnerable at one moment and then shortly after without warning there was this outburst of absolut rage, or being love bombed for two days straight and then ghosted for a week. At the time I didn’t realized that it was abuse - after she discarded me I desperately tried to figure out what went wrong and for quite some time blamed myself, I gave my absolut everything in that relationship. These videos about vulnerable narcissistic abuse are an absolute eye opener and will hopefully help a lot of people who are either trapped in such a toxic relationship and looking for a way out or an explanation what the f* is going on or are even at the start of one such a relationship and are concerned about some of the signs and behaviors already displayed...Keep up the good work and God bless everybody reading this!
Dr. Grande, I finally understand what I've been living with thanks to you. My wife has every sign for being a vulnerable/covert, she'll even say "P&S" as shorthand for pain & suffering. The social isolation, blaming and arguments every day for years over nothing, future faking for decades, gaslighting and false accusations to portray herself as a victim, I'm exhausted and a physical wreck.
I have been to doctors and sent for tests. I am ok but stress is cause of symptons. 50 years being told i am worthless. Crazy and stupid. The rage fits in car are the worst, no escape.
Sounds like my wife. Last year when we were separated for one month I felt intense anxiety, panic and had heartbeat related symptoms as the day of our reunion was approaching. I even went to psychiatrist to ask for advice.
@@kathyfoley397 Just make sure you're driving. Lol.
Then, me personally, would come to a screeching hault and tell him, "OUT. NOW!" After a point. I dgaf WHAT they're going to pull next. I'm over it. The police have said, he looks a lot worse than you do. I said, welp, he started it and he's got a record of DV. Plus, it's my house. I'll press charges.
I've been on a couple of acid trips,
And camping trips.. But a guilt trip is not one I ever want to be on
Thanks dr. Grande this is all painful but very necessary
Found out that my romantic relationship isnt that romantic. At all.
Came back after 1 year in 2020. My then Ex is my now room mate...it still sucks.
Came back in 2021. Now she moved out but wants to visit my dog. And I am still emotionally stuck.
Karla Shmeeda Vlasta this was the most devastating thing for me to accept when I left my abuser. Coming to the realization that he didn’t love me was so painful.
Karla Shmeeda Vlasta yeh me too he’s left me heart broken.
Same... Years lost
I fucking feel ya there
@@RA-zs9oe good question. I believe it's when someone declines sex that they would otherwise want to have but withold to punish the other person. it could be tricky to tell from the outside which it is without knowing the person. would need to know it's anger and spite and not another reason.
This is the most perfect description of my narcissist I've ever heard. Thank you. I've wondered if he really is a narcissist because he does apologize and try to fix himself. I thought that could be the hope that a relationship could exist. But all the constant negativity and arguing just to be against me, the constant underlying hostility is baffling.
My father is a vulnerable narcissistic abuser. I've known my entire life that he has issues, but I'm only recently discovering what they are. Thank you for this!
Read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay Gibson. Real game changer
I know you must have heard this a thousand times Dr. Grande, but I sure wish you lived near me. I finally got the nerve to begin seeing a psychiatrist, and it was a disaster. I guess his model was a Behavioral one, and when I started crying about my son who is addicted to drugs, and untreated mood disorders, he told me I sounded like a "sappy Hallmark card". I was devastated. His answer was to cut my son from my life, live my own life, and accept that he's 45 years old and probably won't make it to 50. I understand that he was trying to help, and help me with my codependency, but I always left feeling more hopeless and depressed. Now I just pretty much stay in bed. Sorry to ramble, I guess I'm hoping you could help me to know what questions to ask or what to look for in a psychiatrist. I just can't go through that experience again. Thank you.
You are quite welcome!
That’s horrible. Why would he be so rude?
He would go between grandiose and vulnerable narcissism quite alot ! Which caused alot of drama and stress to deal with ! Your annoyed with the grander side of him and pity the vulnerable aspect of his personality , paranoid , childlike loving side of him. Which is why whenever I would break it off with him , he was able to hoover back . Until you start to see the cycle of abuse for what it is ! In essence crazy making abuse. The anger and hatred , even though he would tell me that he loved me everyday. Never making progress with arguments , never listening. And jealously, always wanting my attention , wanting me to waite on him and accusing me of being interested in another man. Which was ridiculous. Its sad , because I tell him that he needs to change , but he says he cant . I have seen him try , but with this being what it is , a mental problem, I dont see it , sadly
This is the best description I’ve come across. Blew my mind
Completely accurate in my case. This is one of the best descriptions I’ve heard!
The way you are describing it, is as though as, they are intentionally starting arguments.
I think it is unintentional.
When they sense the lack of admiration they start fights to regain attention.
Just like a little child who is throwing a temper tantrum.
There's a lack of awareness of their own behaviours and motives.
Having no ability to forgive and the negativity are the reasons behind the arguments and perhaps hatred.
It seems very much like borderline, except there's no self hatred or self harm, but there is a sense of inferiority.
It's really very sad.
They lose good connections over their behaviour.
It's because of the lack of trust, they are too scared to believe you are going to be there for them.
It's too painful to trust and be disappointed.
They cannot risk it.
It's very sad.
These are broken people
They made the decision long ago.
Noone can be trusted.
So I am just going to take good care of ME.
It's hard to make them think otherwise.
Lami Alsharif - is that your Name? I love the arabic Alphabet. ☆ I like your comment, too. ☆ Or is it Alshadif? Could be "d".
Lollypop Narcy
Yes, you know Arabic??
Marvelous reading 😊💕💕
Lama El Charif
@@user-gy7bg1rv6o 😃 Thanks! I know very few. It is a difficult language. I LOVE the letters.
Lollypop Narcy
Thank you for the acknowledgement
It's nice to be acknowledged
Have a nice day💐
I thought the same thing, sounds almost just like BPD
I believe that I have this, and it’s only getting worse, particularly the neurotic characteristics.
Good on u Stan for ur comment. May I ask, did you grow up with a particularly rigid/authoritarian style of parenting? “Do as I say not as I do, children should be seen and not heard etc. “
rah rah My husband did. And he is a vulnerable narcissist. Who’s symptoms and abuse went from subtle to extreme at around age 37. It was quite shocking
@@CLEFT3000 Unfortunately true.
@@CLEFT3000 Ah the "children should be seen and not heard" everyone in my family says this and now that I'm older I see how toxic it is
@@CLEFT3000 I didn't have such exact parenting stype (though teachers in kindergarten took away y pillow and blanket if I couldn't fall asleep at the day rest hour, which I never could do, so maybe it counts), my mother though is neurotic, so it's more of "nobody have time for you and it's a pity if you have problems, we care a little but don't have time to deal with them, we're busy trying to get some money to survive".
This is one of the most accurate videos I’ve watched in a while!
My ex is a vulnerable narcissist and a close friend told me it seemed like there was a dark cloud over his head all the time. Dark cloud is a great description.