Is this Cable Stapling Legal? 2020 NEC 334.30
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2020
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I love these N.E.C videos with article clarification and live field examples of how it actually applies to the real world.
I'm new to the trade and still get so confused with the wording of the NEC sometimes. Then a field demonstration of what the NEC is requiring comes along and makes the NEC so much more understandable.
Thank you very much!
Thanks so much! I think everyone gets confused with NEC wording whether they admit it or not. It does help to make an example IMO.
I've had my license for well over 30 years now and I still have to read and re-read some sections of the NEC. It helps that we're now working in metric, everything is just x10 or x.1, basically for changes, but gosh - the wording, all too often, reminds me of a 1920's set of Compton's Encyclopedias I used to browse through at my great-grandparents' home.
It doesn't help that local inspectors often are either unfamiliar with major changes or insist on practices which even I, in my '60s, consider out-dated. Wirenuts are the current 'mountain to die on' for some in my county.
@@ethelryan257 Thanks for your 30 years of hard work in the industry!
@@ethelryan257 dang over 30 years? I'm 28, so hopefully I stay healthy enough to this for that long too!
Makes me feel a bit better knowing the pros still think twice about NEC articles.
I'm also taking classes for the trade and my professor who is a master electrician still has to re-read articles. Albeit not as much as us students.
Thank you for your skills, knowledge, and hard work, the world wouldn't be what it is today without people like you.
@@PepperStone3 Thanks again Peter!
For years we have been putting a loop of wire between the box and the first staple, to allow quick repair if a drywall router accidentally nicks a wire, and for future repairs. To my surprise, this minimum 300mm loop is now required in the Canadian Electrical Code, 12-510(4).
Thank you for doing that! In remo construction this is extremely helpful!
I’m in school right now and I’ve been appreciating your recent code videos a lot!
Fantastic! Great to hear!
Sparky the legend teaching, showing and growing wealth for the future generations. Only the wise ones will appreciate these awesome contents! Thank you Bill! I hope youtube doesnt lose this channel like they lost your last one because these videos are as useful and beneficial for us as the NEC book itself!!!
Thanks so much!
Thank you Sparky. I am a retired electrician and have been for many years. Most of my activities was involved with 480 3-phase heavy industrial work, but occasionally I would do some house/romex wiring. There is so much I have forgotten for home wiring, so this example was a big help. I will be wiring a new prefab building for my son, so I am studying the NEC to get refreshed on the wiring methods for this install. Thanks to your videos, I am trying to get up to speed with knowledge on how to wire the building. This was a great instructional video Me. Sparky!
I'm so glad I could help. Best wishes!
I'm a huge advocate of having reasonable slack, and what you show in the video is good practice, I think! The only issue with slack, however, is that it's not useful unless you actually need it and can pull some slack into the box. With that NM connector, you can't do it with a finished wall because the screws on that clamp would be covered with drywall. So with NM cable and boxes, it's best to use the boxes with the clamps integrated inside the box. These are common in device boxes, but you can get 4" square boxes with them too.
the only issue i see with the slack at the box is , the possibility of someone snagging it during the rough in , i like to keep my cables as tight to the framing as possible . if you give someone a loop chances are something will either snag it or get hung from it and if it gets damaged while you are not there , chances are no one will tell you about it .
@@DeltaCo7175 Good point.
I like to have slack just incase I ever have to come back and make it a double gang/triple gang. Box to add a device. Make it a lot easier to pull the old box out of the wall and put the new one. Only works with NM boxes though
You can get to that clamp with minimal disruption. A lot less than having to pull a new cable.
@@dougfaunt5565 That's true, just a little bit of trimming around the box and relatively easy patching with mud. I like those plastic NM tension connectors that pop into 1/2 and 3/4 knockouts. Those allow you to pull cable through but stop it from going the other way.
Thank you for your content! I love seeing it all laid out so nicely
My pleasure! Thanks for watching Sparky Channel!
I enjoyed the Saturday Morning brain teaser.... I see that you just blew through 60K subscribers... Congratulations on that. I’m looking forward to 100K and then breaking your original subscriber count of 180K... keep up the great job of keeping us in the know... Have a great weekend!!!!!
Hi Bill! If I get to 100K subs TH-cam will send me another silver start button. Then I'll be in the weird position of having 2 silver start buttons for the same channel! LOL!
Yes, this was meant to be a brain teaser and to provoke thought as well as discussion of the code. I think people learn the best when having fun. :)
Is there a separate section of the code that specifies that holes through studs are permitted as NMC support? I see NEC 300.4 specifies location of holes through studs for NMC, but it doesn't specify (my interpretation) that this is considered a valid support method. Is there a specific code for this, or is it just considered obvious?
Always enjoy your videos Sparky. Thank you.
My pleasure, thanks!
I always learn something by watching your videos. Thanks and keep it coming.
My pleasure, thanks Jason!
I have never used non shielded cable in my career. Everything has had a case or shielded ground. Having said that, I always tried to leave extra slack when I could so that at a later time, if something is added or changed, a whole run doesn't need to be replaced. I like the way you think here!
I was always taught to treat every installation as if I was the technician who had to come behind myself so as a general rule for me I always leave slack because you never know when you're going to need it
Looks good to me Bill, nice service loop!!! Love your videos😊
Thanks Ted! Have a great weekend!
A service loop is not a bad idea. Yes, it allows repositioning the outlet box to a limited extent (18" radius), but it's best virtue is having extra wire to pull into the box if needed such as when wire breaks after many years. This is not possible here because the clamp grips the cable on the outside of the box and that is covered with drywall.
Thanx for another great video Bill!!!!
My pleasure, thanks William!
How does a 100% “romex” installation meet the requirement for future expansion
I feel like having everything over stapled or fiddle string tight gives the cable less movement if it comes in contact with a screw. Say someone is hanging a wall mount for a t.v., misses the stud and hits a cable. No give in the wire equals a short. I think common sense stapling is the way to go. Stapling loosely makes more sense to me. I don’t practice this due to the fact it is not allowed by code, but I always have those thoughts as I’m working.
After years of using manual Romex staplers, I treated myself to the DeWalt 20V cable stapler, and it's been a huge time and energy saver.
Isn't it great? Like you say, time and energy saver!
@@SparkyChannel
Indeed, and I'm not even a full time Electrician. I'm an IUEC Journeyman, and just do residential electrical work on the side for friends and family for free.
@@RobertLeBlancPhoto how do you like it? I’ve heard it needs a depth adjuster because it doesn’t drive into certain materials correctly? I’ve been using needle noses and a hammer for years, wanna try this out but afraid of it being inconsistent..
Serious question - Now that NFPA has changed its NEC distribution from PDF to paper copies and/or online subscription, I have hesitated to buy my 2020 code book. How is it that you are displaying the electronic version for this video demonstration? Thanks! This might help me decide what to buy from NFPA.
On NFPAs website, you can use the free access feature to view the code. No purchase necessary. I like my paper copy too though. I can tab and highlight as much as I want.
The slack is awesome when you're doing remo and need to move box few inches from existing location.
Sounds good!
Exactly. As far as looks, only Superman can see behind drywall.
We enjoyed. Thank you Sir.
No problem, thanks!
Real questions here brought on my that kink - 334.24 NM ... radius of the curve of the inner edge .... must not be less than five times the diameter. What counts as the cable diameter? My NM cable is just under 3/16 high and 7/16 wide. I've been told NM 12ga cable needs to be 2.5 inches, which would be using the width (rounded up) as diameter. However, haven't heard about complaints on the bend you showed (in more appropriate circumstances). I'm thinking you are more likely to be dinged on 110.12 neat and workmanlike before 334.24. Thoughts?
I agree, I just did it that way to show the NEC limit.
Very nice summary! Thank you. As a DIYer, coming in to modify, add to, or (sorry) all too often correct work done by the Last Guy, I have a particular gripe against not providing any slack at all between the staple and box, and then making the length inside the box be the absolute minimum. or even a bit less. Then I come in to replace a cheap commodity switch or receptacle, discover the stripped wire ends are nicked or corroded and must be trimmed--and now there's not enough wire in the box to reach the device when the device is pulled clear of the box. I understand the urge not to do a sloppy job (I've seen that too) but please don't make everything minimum-tight either.
Short wires are the perfect situation to utilize Wago connectors. I hadn’t done a big wire project in almost two decades and then I started watching Sparky Channel and use Wagos all the time now. As far as no slack, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any slack on any thing I’ve ever worked on. You would think the code has a section that reads, “ Between the last staple and the connector, no slack should be allowed. “.
Interesting video, thanks sparky!
Thanks Josh!
That's only for new construction prior to dry wall, not a retro install after dry wall is already up, correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And now I know more. ❤️
Nice video Bill. Does round Romex cable with insulated ground wire exist in America? Its the most common cable type in Europe.
Yes it does for certain applications where it is needed, but for the most part the ground is bare copper.
Service loops have been required in Canada for over 20 year.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
No problem, thanks!
Hey sparky can you make a video on back to back offsets I can’t find one on TH-cam. How to do It in once piece etc
Isn't that a 4 point saddle bend?
I wish my house was wired like this. They pulled all my cables taut. When I replaced my bathroom fan there wasn't enough slack to accommodate the different location of the integrated junction box, I had to add a splice. Not a big deal but it meant another trip to Lowe's for a small roll of romex and a junction box.
Yes, in an instance like that it is very useful!
I had a similar situation. In our master bath there was one light switch in the bedroom that turned on both a ceiling light and the light above the medicine cabinet in the bathroom. I changed that by installing a switch and a second receptacle next to the existing GFCI receptacle. However, when I removed the GFCI I discovered the wires were too short to work with so I had to put a junction box inside the vanity and then put a longer cable to the new 3-gang box. Problem solved.
I'm one of the ones who said no due to the slack, but once again I'm no electrician . So, great one again. 👍
Thanks!
I always thought romex was 12" from from box if clamped and 8" if not. Where and when did this 18" come into play?
It is technically strapped within 12 inches, and that is code. The 18 inches is the length of romex. The loop gives you the extra 6 inches play but distance from box-strap is still under 12 inches
One question I have, if you are drilling holes in the middle of your studs and running the wire straight across, so that it never runs along the side of the stud you don’t need to staple in that span do you? I mean, there’s nowhere to staple.
That's correct.
Interesting video Sparky. I agree on the idea of exceeding the bare minimum. This was thought provoking.
Yes, I knew it would be thought provoking. Have a great weekend Gary!
can the staples go in sheetrock?
Good info from my favorite book , the NEC code ... Lol ... Thnx Wild Bill ...
Hi Eddy! I tried to make this one a brain teaser. :) Have a great weekend!
My question when doing any installation: is it safe? Is it compliant? Those two are sometimes not the same answer.
Thanks Taylor!
Old man here, good info. I worked with a guy that would put a strap on 1/2 EMT right next to The coupling at the box, he would say it meets code.
Interesting! Have a great weekend!
Interesting😂 he has a whole metre to work with
Thank you Sparky and love your videos. Can you tell me what would code for going between two metal junctions boxes with NM with J boxes located between the inside cavity of joist on opposing joist. straight shot between boxes. I am hoping you don't have to staple it down on each joist prior to entering each box.
Rocko ... reading between the lines, I would say if the cable clamps on the boxes are 12" or less between, then no staple required. If they are more than 12" then you need some slack and a staple within 12" of the box mounted clamp. I do believe the total cable length should be less than 18", although I have often wondered if code might want "up to" 6" of slack for each box. Worst case is you need to take out some slack after the rough inspection, or add a staple. This is why they do inspection BEFORE drywall.
@@rupe53 Thank you very much for reading between the lines on this one. I was hoping my question would read clearly. So it would appear that clamps themselves could be considered as secure method? I have a 2020 code book and read it over and over. I respect your experience, and I am so eager to learn. I find it's very hard sometimes to get the true meaning of the expressed code.
@@rockoeasy9150 ... another way to look at it would be if the boxes are within the same bay (2x4 wall) they are only 14" apart and at most 22". (24" on center) You can either add more wire and secure to the studs as well as the box clamps, or run a fairly straight line to the next box, provided you are less than 12" (straight line) and less than 18" with slack. Drilling through a stud to the next bay is considered support for the wire run but might require a staple below each box to be safe.
@@rupe53 After looking at the code 334.30 appear it doesn't leave much wiggle room, and I really want to read into it, but I can't get my desired answer. I think your suggestion of when in doubt, is to secure it. Thank you taking time to answer my questions. I hope we might get some masters to look at this too.
@@rockoeasy9150 ... ok, let's NOT read between the lines and do exactly as the book says. Come out of each box and use a staple less than 12" away from the clamp, go across the bay (14" or 22") and that's less than the 4.5 ft between staples. Again, drilling through the next 2x4 (if necessary) counts as support so no staple required on the pass-through, but adding a staple less than 12" before the next box will get you through an inspection. If nothing else it will look good and you get brownie points. BTW, it's always the "what if" situation that's hard to answer.
That should be totally fine. That much cable weighs nothing and makes it super easy to rework in future. I usually do a 10" staple, 16' length in an S bend, mainly cause that's my extended pinky to thumb and elbow to knuckle measurements. I don't think enough electrician think about the future of work they do. Always better to have bigger boxs and more wire then less. I hate doing renos and everything is short and full.
I think the S bend gives a better chance of the insulators getting our cable in the middle of their insulation. What's your opinion?
@@SparkyChannel with the s bend i keep most of the extra length along the stud, curve at the bottom of the box and end with a saddle into the box. That way its easy to get the insulation against the stud and close around the box. And if dealings with spray foam like alot of external walls these days I get the bigger 411/16" (range) vapor barrier boxes and keep the loops as tight to the box. Cause I've seen people leave loops before in spray foam just to have them sealed in it and useless.
Bravo, agreed totally. If you're using NM with steel boxes, though, you have to be sure those boxes have integrated clamps inside the box. So you can unscrew them inside and pull some slack in. Otherwise the clamp is behind the wall-covering.
I hope so.
so you are saying i can staple 6inches from the box and then 17inches of wire before terminating in box and be fine?
17 in cable length between staple and box is fine by code and 6 is less than 12 on cable distance.
Yes
It'd be interesting to get a tour of a fully installed house before they put up the wall plates
Excellent idea, thanks!
Yes sir. Keep it coming. More NEC
Any requests?
Things like minimum panel board height. Or calculating load size for the panel. Or even orientation can a panel board be mounted horizontally... I’ll have more. Thank you.
Love this!
Thanks!
I like that service loop and I like them to be as long as possible. Future repairs or changing out outlets become much easier when you have slack. So I would go with the full length code allows. I live in a home where every box is 'short wired' and it is almost impossible to even replace an outlet. With no extra in the box and no service loop you have to rewire to replace a simple outlet. And of course no pigtails either. Absolutely crazy and probably saved a few pennies in material. The house was built in the mid seventies. At least they did use copper.
I am hearing your painful moan of agony and dispare!!!!!!!! The bone heads that wired our house only left 4" max in the box. Some of the ground wires are only 3", I growl and grumpy whenever I need to need to modify/add to a j-box!
Ideal 30-1342S is a push-in connector for extending a single solid or stranded copper wire, you might try it. I’m not a fan of this type of joint but I keep a handful of these around so I can get home in a timely fashion when the situation requires it. It seems like they make a fairly solid connection.
Wago 221 connectors to the rescue!
@@glasshalffull2930 Actually not the 221 as wago makes an connector that joins one end and the other straight across rather than the 221's sideby side. Stab in the wago for the first connection then stab the wire in the the wago. I have no room to bend the existing wire! Makes a nice straight join.
@@chriscarter7182 I wish I had 4" mine doesn't make the edge of the box!
The connector is considered as support . Am I right?
No. The connector is entry. Support are the staples OR a hole in the stud or joist where the cable passes through.
Aren't those clamp down ones considered support? Quite sure for at least mc cable it is, but idk
Here’s a video idea: Are cable clamps inside the box acceptable? And if so, does that count toward box capacity calculation? Something I’ve wondered about for a while.
No. You probably won't find it in the NEC code, but it would probably be a UL issue where it would be delisted because it wasn't installed according to manufacturer design.
My thoughts on interior box securements, are the cu/in label on the box takes them into account.
I had an application for a Halloween display where I wanted the clamp on the inside. I found at Home Depot a plastic pushin clamp by Raco called “The insider”. It projected very little into the j-box. I also did research on metallic clamps and one company listed that there clamp (looked basically the same as the one in this video) could be reversed and have the screws on the inside, but unfortunately I don’t recall the manufacturer.
I'm a homeowner and knew only about the 12in from box, the 18in cable length was new to me. I'm getting it all inspected anyway though. I guessed right though! I wasn't sure what length might be allowed if that was relevant so I learned something.
They say any day you learn something is a good day! :)
@@SparkyChannel Sir Bill is thay american far as 18 inches we as Canadians were always told 12 inches
What does it mean by flat cables should not be stapled on edge.
My guess is not to staple cables like
-]
but instead
|]
Excellent answer Touko!
In Canada here the rule is the same within 300mm from the box the cable must be supported. If you create a good looking service loop, unlike the example shown in the video most inspectors deem it passable as the service loop is following the same direction vertically into the box. I don't know how many times a homeowner on some expensive house says you need to move that receptacle up or down.
Especially with more people working from home now. They would like receptacles moved up above the surface of their desk. Nice to have a service loop to work with.
@@SparkyChannel Great point! Never thought about that.
@@SparkyChannel ... somehow I don't think the extra 6" will help to move an outlet above a desk top. I figure the easiest way would be to fish a cable from the lower outlet up to the new height and add a new outlet.
Interesting! I'm glad they clarified this. I don't recall it being explicitly stated in earlier editions.
No problem, thanks!
Nice video sparky. It’s nice to leave some extra cable but too much of a risk for me. If the insulators push it in and the siding guys blow some nails through it.
Yes, I understand. The insulators are supposed to put the cable in the middle of the insulation but who know what they actually do? Thanks Tom!
@@SparkyChannel keep up the great videos. I appreciate the early morning weekend videos.
Can we put 3 nm-b cables under one 3/4" staple ? we can not put them flat to each other so at least one of them need to be on top of the other 2 - is that allowed ? can you give code reference?
NO!! What you can do is use a cable stacker. 334.30 Securing and Supporting Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4 1/ 2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in. or 8" using 314.17(C) Ex. if meets allowance) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge. Sections of cable protected from physical damage by raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway. Most staples allow (2) Romex cables ( NM Cable ) but not on edge as stated in 334.30.
@@im2yys4u81 , thanks for including the code but where does it say that you can't stack two 3-conductor NM cable under one staple? Thanks in advance for the clarification.
@@rontodd6061 There isn't an art. specifying the number of nm's under a staple, you would use art 110.3 (B) installation and use. In other words manufacturers spec's. 334.40 is where we find the rules for securing and supporting Romex. There is no mention in the NEC as to how many cables under a staple. However, many staples are listed to hold two cables or less, which would make securing three cables under those staples a 110.3(B) violation. As I recall the staples I purchased are listed for 2 NM cables.
As many as you can fit without damaging the wire homie
@@im2yys4u81 , thanks for the response. Make sense to use the mfg specs.
Always like a good service loop. Sh*t happens. :-)
The main thing that happens is somebody cuts the wires in the box too short. A service loop can bail you out. If there is no service loop, you've got an unnecessary problem. The other thing is if someone asks you to move a receptacle, say 6 inches. With no service loop the job is much more difficult. I'm not saying to make it as large as I did in the video. That was too provoke thought and see if people knew the code.
Is an old work box truly up to code? The reason I ask is that I can't see how it is possible to staple the cable to secure it inside an existing wall.
You make informing videos that are easy to understand, thank you!
Excellent question! I think I'll make a video about that. Probably a lot of people wonder about that.
Fastening any cable fished into a cavity (such as for old work) is not required per "not able to do so".
It is why “old work” boxes all have cable securements built in.
Cods section 334.30 in page 3:30
I read these contradictions. 12 in. vs 18 in.
1) The (last cable support) of the 4.5 ft interval - shall towards the junction box shall be no more than 12 in.
2) The (last/nearest cable support) towards the junction box - shall be no more than 18 in.
What am I missing?
I think the difference is how you measure it. The 12 inch limit is 'as the crow flies' measured straight from the last support to the box entrance. The 18 inch limit is measured 'along the cable'. That is, you can't have a big coil or loop that is say, 30 inches long wadded up between the last support and the box. A good electrician would leave a little bit of 'slack' that could be pulled into the box for future work, but not a huge amount.
@@mikefochtman7164 thanks to clarify this.
The video is literally showing you what they mean
Gonna post now before continue watching...
Gonna say, yes, technically it’s to code; but, not sure any sparky would leave their cable looking like that when doing rough in work.....as, just doesn’t look good😉 (also, could cause, issues).
Love these vids Bill. Have a good one✌🏼
I agree! I'm really trying to "provoke thought" as they say and get people studying the code book. Also, please watch the rest of the video as I explain that I wasn't showing how I think people should do it. Thanks!
@@SparkyChannel Don’t think anyone likes the Code Book, lol. Especially when getting ready for testing etc.. Did take a class on how to “understand” the code book long ago & was very helpful.
Do enjoy your videos👍🏻
Merry Christmas 🎅🏻
@@Aepek Thanks and Merry Christmas to you!
One possible problem with how Sparky's box is wired I see is when someone uses one of those electronic stud finders. There're going to have a fun time wondering how the electrical was wired. Could also be a problem depending on why someone would need to drill a hole close to where the extra loop of Romex is.
I guess this solved the “service loop” argument.
I like to leave lots of slack in case I need to move the box or a drywaller knicks my wire, I'd move the staples closer tho
Sounds good, thanks!
Exactly this. That take all clamp is useless in this example as if it's tight how do you get the slack. We used metal boxes and the yellow pushin connectors. We would make a loop around our hand first then push through connector. Here in Chicagoland we pipe everything but outside of collar counties of Cook it's rope. Got be honest running rope is far faster but the splicing sucks especially in freezing weather. Pulling solid wire in pipe way faster.
You made a loophole with the law! ;-)
LOL! Good one! :)
why the loop at the box ??
It's to demonstrate what is legal by code.
"because I can" :-)
Some people call it a service loop... Might be a good idea to leave a little slack in case you ever want to or have to move or replace a box :)
Just because it's ok, doesn't mean it's ok.
Got it, thanks!
Well one that looks dangerous for the cable and 2nd it appears more then 12 inches from the box
It is 11.5” from the box edge.
Awesome
Thanks!
I knew it was within the code...but "legal" doesn't mean it's right... Who would do such work?
Might be a four or five gang switch box and you are wiring to the outside switch. I wouldn't leave a big hunk of wire sticking out like he does here but if you had 15 or 16" of Romex to the clamp, it would be legal.
I read in a book about remodel contracting that when you get to arbitration, you ask that the installation be completed, inspected, and accepted by the "local building authority". That would be the inspector. The clarification is that code inspections are NOT for workmanship [any more at least]. They are purely for code compliance. Good workmanship is just a bonus. And what the homeowner expects - but often does not get.
Another way to say that is, "Everything is lawful,” but not everything is beneficial." - 1 Corinthians 10:23, New English Translation.
You don’t think leaving some slack is good practice?
Many people leave extra. I personally never have, I want it foolproof as possible when the sheetrocking frenzy hits. It is miserable when reworking a box with hyper shortened wires but that is a complete separate issue.... If a hack didn't know or care enough to do it right then they also didn't leave slack. If a professional wires the box right then the slack isn't needed. I can't sign off on leaving enough slack outside every box just on the outside chance of remodeling when I can certainly remodel with what is there. But hey, to each his own. ( But have you seen the cost of Romex RN?)
It says 12" then 18" in the next sentence. I'm confused.
12 inches from cable entry (so from box to staple).... 18 for cable length.
@@SwiftHelix Correct.
@@SwiftHelix thanks
This will not get in the way of drywall installs or anything as you would screw the dry wall to the studs not in the middle of the cavity
Thanks!
Legal
I had a new house built in 2001 (USA), and I checked up on it during construction almost every other day, and photographed every step. When the wiring was being installed, NO staples were seen anywhere! Yet somehow, it got passed.
Yeah.....that's not a good thing.
Inspections are a pain in the ass but you don't want to "get over" on things like that.you took all those photos and said nothing until now???after inspection??to a bunch of strangers instead of confronting your contractor??
@@76shogun1
Just because he took photos doesn't mean he knew what he was looking at 20 years ago. Also, 20 years ago stapling might not have been required.
The photos are a great idea. I take photos any time one of my walls is opened up for whatever reason, so later I can see where any electrical or plumbing is.
I took video of every major phase of the construction. I’ve referred to it many times and my neighbors with the same model have borrowed the videos when they are planning a modification.
I think it needs to be 4" away from the box.
Not if the cable is secured at box entry.
conwkr1 ... I think the point is "within 12 inches" but there comes a point were you get too close. Guessing anything 4-12 is ok, so long as you are not straining the cable when banging in the nail.
It’s legal….. what I don’t like is that stapler…… in Colorado all the elektricians use a big hammer to slam that staple just tight enough so the AFCI trips periodically for no reason ! It gets u to 4:20 earlier
Used to be 6" from the box in Colorado back in the 70's. But that could have just been the AHJ. And I wouldn't use an electric stapler either. :)
And we had the THW sheathed Romex, which was thicker, and pot was still illegal, so we simply stuck with sneaking off early. :)
They’re romex specific staples, and insulated
Staple at 10 inch
That will work.
Guess it is ok....just this wall..only. NEXT ROOM
Thanks!
As an owner of a 130+ year old house, I sure hope that the service life of Romex that everyone loves to staple proves to be a lot longer than the prior generations of cable that I've had to replace. Otherwise several decades from now a lot of drywall will have to be ripped down because of all those staples.
The NMD in my current house (built in 1964) would not pass in today's environment - the grounding conductor is undersized. As I upgrade the house, I am replacing the cable back to the panel, with new NMD and meeting current codes. Since I also removed the electric baseboard heaters, and swicthed to Gas forced air, I have more than 2 garbage cans filled with copper wire to recycle!
@@paulmoffat9306 PAUL: An old electrician told me, IF Knob & Tube electrical wiring were introduced today, WITH, modern single wire insulation, THEN, it would be able to handle FAR HIGHER AMP current temperatures, for the same sized AWG wire sizes, i.e. 14 AWG could then be rated for 20 AMPS. WHY? KNOB & TUBE wires are single wires, un-captured inside ROMEX sheath, and thus CAN DISSIPATE HEAT far better than ROMEX. PLUS, the long haul runs ARE NOT stapled down MIDSTREAM. The wires PASS through ceramic tubes at each stud and ceiling joist, allowing EZ replacement without removing ALL the drywall. INTERESTING AYE?
Unless someone wallops the staple in with absolutely ridiculous force, the staple won't affect the longevity of the sheathing or the thermoplastic insulation on the conductors in the slightest. Look into the listing process of electrical materials and you will see the extremes to which theses products are tested. ( There are exceptions however, most would agree the NEC and the manufacturers pushed AFCI breakers on us too quickly. The AFCI breaker false tripping issue has been fixed but it was a huge nuisance at the start.)
@@fritzmiller9792 idk, I've seen alot i
Of cable crushing staples and staples at angles were if the cable is pulled on it will (or has) strip(ped) off the jacket - occasionally digging into the actual conductors... as well as staples so loose, I don't see the point of them being there at all...
I'd think the screw down clamps (or something similiar) used for mc cable would be way better. Not too tight, not too loose...
Besides the burden of carrying around the smallest impact driver, they're faster then pounding away at staples. Often in a new build the studs have a good bit of give, and older ones the wood has gotten quite hard. There are some builds where the structure is well braced and isn't much of an issue, but at the same time it must be from all the crazy stapling I've seen
As Mike Holmes says, code is minimum. A guy I used to work with always said "you're work will look like shit and you're an asshole if you do it to [minimum] code".
Thanks for these videos sparky!
Yes, I made it a point to say that it's OK to exceed code. I had to stretch it to the limit so guys would have to think about it. :) Thanks Jim!
Mike Holmes is a clown.
I’ve seen him miss very obvious code violations and purposely make a huge deal out of situations he knows are totally normal. You want examples? A third story in a home with no windows was a violation a child may know. Another time he called out an electrician roughing a basement where a panel change was going to occur before the job was over. The contracting company was thrown off the job at the end of the rough. The electrician had temporary power tied into an existing killed circuit outside of the panel. This is completely normal when you are going to change a panel and he knows it or he is a scam artist and never ran a job. Those were the last two episodes I’ve ever watched.
@@KitchenerLeslie2 ... Good points and I have seen the same on his shows. The flip side is doing the job safely... and how long is temporary? Most of his shows deal with someone who has an ongoing issue over a period of time. (and I don't know how people put up with that)
No more than 18"
In Canada its no more 12 inches and about every 5 feet ..I usually bang em in about every 3 feet
Yes this video is tricky , pushed the limits of rules
Yes, you got the point! :)
i was wrong! big surprise!
No
I put my first staple within 8" of any box.
Can't go wrong that way.
@@SparkyChannel Question:
You have a detached garage, 3 wire for 3 way switches, but no ground wire. One switch in the garage and one in the house.
How do you ground an outlet there WITHOUT paying $20K to bring the house up to code just for a single grounded outlet in a detached garage?
Not exaggerating about that cost either. Code gestapo's just LOVE to make you upgrade the house and panel and such OR ELSE. And DEMAND a friggin permit and a licensed electrician to do the work.
I just ran a ground wire separately from the outlet to a ground rod next to the garage. Skipped the permit and licensed electrician BS.
Used a GFCI outlet too.
Only needed that outlet for a lousy battery charger once in a while. Maybe a saw once a year - MAYBE.
Works like a charm too.
I thought it was legal just because it look like a trick question.
LOL! I might do one of these that is illegal just to keep everyone honest. :)
Positive learning examples teach the correct installation.
Wow that so close, that what happened to us
So my story in last year I change 3 ways switch them maybe 2 or 3 weeks later we started problem I fixit 3 times then failed fixit again, then failedthen my grandpa friend come over then fixit then failed again... then I saw your video about a how to fix a 3 ways switch system problem them I started fixit on 4 month ago then failed agains!!! Then I so mad myself and worry... then electrician come then found a fake wire then told my family about fake wire!!! We got almost burn down im garage..my family always told me I wrong but my uncle put itin 2003... but he fake electrician
So yeah, everyone please be careful about it and be safe...
Also I want to electrician on future
Also in electrical box a lot wire so messy and dirty electrical
Please be very careful!
@@SparkyChannel thank you
I would have not made that belly hump I would have straighten the cable then stapled it at legal points
I agree
You probably also leave just enough wire to come out of the box for trim
Hi Ruben! How are you my friend? What do you mean by "legal points"?
And then when the gc comes back and moves the outlet 4 inches to the left, you have to rip up drywall and re run that whole leg.. or, u put in service loop like so, and its as simple as cutting in the new box.
legal points the spot were u r supposed 2 staple
Reading the code it clearly passes..however I would advise against it. Last week I drilled through a cable that had a weird little loop behind the box and I spent an hour ripping out the old box and putting in a new box and splicing the the wire I had destroyed. Ffs please don’t get creative my guys.
Pffft, I guessed wrong. Apparrently NEC doesn't care about looks. If you're going to USE the length for something, sure. Otherwise.. I think it just looks sloppy if that's "finished" with you ideas for other projects on that wire.
It's behind the wall, function over fashion.
Of the cable is attached at the box so it cannot be pulled out of the box, I feel that it is safer to not attach it at all due to if someone tries to nail or attach something to the finished wall and a drill or fastener hits it, it will move out of the way.
Just my personal opinion.
Screw the code, do what you have to......
OK, thanks.
This may be legal, but a customer is likely going to drive a drywall/wood screw right through that wire!
If customer uses a screw that long and misses the stud, it wouldn't matter how much slack you have.
Sloppy, but legal.
Sad to see metric units given priority - and with an overly precise unit of measure (mm).
OK, thanks!
...in the code book.
Miles, Yards, Feet, Inches, and fractions of inches are much simpler to use than mm, meters, and km! -P
City inspirators are too lazy to post videos like this to help homeowners, contractors, and electricians.
They just like to mess around with people at the jobsite unless you got donuts and coffee at sight.🤣
It isn't the city inspector's duty to teach wiring methods or codes. Many of them don't know enough to do a wireman's job. They learn basic codes, then others 1 at a time. When an inspector goes to inspect a job or a phase of a job, the first thing he looks for is neatness. A wiring job that doesn't have a neat appearance is more likely to be incomplete (something left out) or done wrong. It can be very difficult for the inspector, or even the electrician in charge to inspect a sloppy wiring job.
A good electrician can make it look good, function properly, and pass inspection.
I've seen inspectors walk in, take a quick look at a neat job, write out a green tag and walk out in 2 minutes. Sometimes, a neatly wired breaker panel is good enough. They know an electrician who takes pride in a pretty panel and works for a contractor with a good reputation didn't cut corners.
Some inspectors are pretty sharp. Some don't know s***. But a good electrician knows better than to tell him that.
@@SteveWhiteDallas you're so right on the neatness of the job site and neatness of the job, I am building my own home up to if not over and beyond code for my area. My inspector had to do some real work to see if my wiring was up to code. It was above code for my area. He had never seen a push-on neutral breaker panel before.
The donuts and coffee are needed for the folks that issue the permits.
I wouldn't recommend it either when an old inspector comes in and says its not put in in a neat and workman like manner.
I've had some take pictures of my work so they can show other what it is supposed to look like.
Wow, taking pictures of your work is a great compliment!
Wrong.... The cable is not protected from being laid on surface of stud. Or being sandwiched between the drywall and the stud. This does not pass.
Yes it does
Dom is correct. Staplings purpose is to eliminate the possibility of the wire being sandwiched between the drywall and stud. This creates heat build up and has probably been the cause of a fire at one point. If the wire can possibly be sandwiched between the stud, then it fails.
Dom is correct
It does not look right.
its right though