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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- If you don't need a razor edged track weapon or mind-bendingly fast supercar killer, but still want a proper 911, the 991.1 C4S might be the most well rounded model you can find at a reasonable price.
See how I rank the cars I've reviewed in my Zygrene Performance Index (ZPI): bit.ly/3Vo0Idd
Follow me on IG: / zygrene
Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com
Haha omg!!! This was my old car. Fletcher jones plate. Traded it in last year!!! Epic car. Miss it. Color is signal yellow pts for anyone wondering. I drove that car daily, road tripped, canyons, was rock solid. If you put the car is sport not sport plus you will have seamless redline shifts at the same speed as sport plus. Great mpg for what it is. I always said it sounds 8/10’s a gt3. Congrats whoever bought it.
The 991.1 C4S is a dream upgrade from my 981 Cayman S. Fantastic car.
Awesome review Fenton!😊
What a beautiful car!
Prices of 991 has come down alot compared to last year which is good to see. There are lots on the market for around $55-65K range which is pretty good deal as they are selling same value as the 997's now. I rather pick one of these up vs a 997 with IMS and bore scoring issues. Would love to see you do a review on a 991.1 GTS
It's where they should be at tbh. They were around 50k before COVID so good to see them come back to where they're worth. Although, with the 992.2 going up, it might mean these cars won't depreciate any more
I have a 991.2 C4S with APR Stage 3 Tune and PDK tune with headers/cats and the thing RIPS. I drive it 75 miles daily and still find excuses to go driving every chance I get. I also have a convertible C8 and the only thing the C8 does better is the ride control/comfort.
Ayeeee I made a cameo with my boy at the end! Blue S2k :D
The 991.1 4S is 400hp...it's the 991.1 GTS that gets a slight bump to 430hp. Nonetheless that's still plenty of power for the street IMO. Having been lucky enough to have road-tripped a 991.1 GT3 through France I couldn't imagine ever wanting more than that on normal roads. TBH here in the UK it's only on particularly straight roads that I wish my stock 987.1S had a bit more power and it still sounds great.
@@gazman9468 thanks for the correction
I’ve driven both and honestly couldn’t tell the difference on my drive to erewhon for my $20 smoothie.
The 981 S is more fun to drive and only £35k for a good spec and low mileage
I believe the used car market in the UK is inherently softer than here in the US. I’ve heard price comparisons in the past on used cars and been jealous. Maybe not as true now, but a few years ago it seemed to be the case.
@@Zygrene thanks for the great videos!
It's a great 911 because I have had one but it's really the GTS 991.1 that I upgraded to... That's the sweet spot! Hope you get one to review. They are something else.
I have recently started driving in manual mode after owning it for a year! Wow, is all I will say. Wow!!! The sound! When strollersand other drivers turn around to look even without being ON IT, you know you have something special.
Making me think about buying one now
The orientation of the sequential shifts in the 991.1 Gt3 is correct and has such a weighted mechanical feel
Personally, I think the only problem with the 991.1 911s is that the 981 Boxster/Cayman S/GTS exists, and delivers most of the experience for much less money. No doubt the cars with the 3.8 are significantly more powerful, but the 3.4s might even sound better than them. If you prefer the 911 recipe and/or want a faster car than the 981s but still NA, it's hard to fault the 991.1s.
For driving fun and enjoyment (and isn't that kind of the whole point?) Boxster is right at the top of the model range.
@@MegaNardman I agree. Personally I enjoy the mid engine handling balance of Cayman/Boxster. But 911 looks so much better IMO
@@ZygreneI think the boxster with the too down looks better than the 911 top down.
Exactly my thinking, the boxster is more fun, better balanced and has all the usable power you need
I haven’t driven the 991/981 but we one the 9X7 911 S and Boxster S, and the mid-engined platform is amazing. Of course I have a 911 because….well it’s a 911. And I’m not a convertible kinda guy, so I’d rather have a Cayman. I’d love to get into a GT4 and give that a spin.
love it, Love It, LOVE THAT SOUND!!!
That N/A is what has been holding me back from stepping into a 992, as well as another 60 Month Note.
I've been considering upgrading to the Soul Performance Headers and Exhaust with a Stage1 Tune to improve the performance and sound even nicer.
Great review, as always:)
Next time you’re in so cal, you should come drive my 997.2 GTS :)
@@Ivan-rk2hs heck yes. Please shoot me a quick email. zygrene@gmail.com
@@Zygrene sent you an email :)
I just picked one of these up and absolutely loving it. 7 Speed Manual with Factory Aero Kit / Ducktail. Completely agree its the sweet spot.
The 991.1 is the last organic shaped and pretty looking 911 IMHO.
Really nice review! I agree with all your points, you really judged well this 991.1 C4S from vehicle dynamics to ride to cabin quality! 😊 to answer your question, yes the 991.1 is the sweet spot! What a fabulous engine sound for a car that is not a Porsche GT product, you are spot on! The steering is good enough and I think becomes better as you push the car. Just a little note / the manual version is a 7MT 😅
If you can please review a 991.1 GTS 7MT (coupe, convertible or targa)
Wow that color is fucking potent, its awesome
FYI the manual option is a 7 speed. The manual is based off the PDK system.
@@Motormouth2416 thanks for the correction
Where are you finding 991.1 4S and GTS for $60-80k (July 2024)? I've been looking at 991.1 prices for a few years now (bought mine a year ago) and right now they're closer to $85-100k depending one mileage and spec. Base model C2 or C2S can be had for $60-80k, but I've never seen a 4S or GTS at those prices without being a rebuilt title.
one just sold on cars and bids, clean title, 45k miles, good condition for about $79k
@@nappiechan9208 That appears to be a 997.2, so the previous generation of the 991.1 shown in this video.. Still, not a bad price!
The 991.1 S engine 3.8 makes 400 hp, but with the power-kit it does make 435 hp.
Powerkit is 430 metric horsepower and a touch less than 430 imperial horsepower.
991 in manual or bust.
Modern interiors are so bad, with huge screens everywhere, no buttons and real gauges, that being ‘dated’ is a good thing imho.
As a previous 991.1S I can say the sweet spot is 991.1GTS MT by far.
I got a 2019 991.2 4 gts, but had that been my target price range, the 991.1 would've been it.
The 991s are the sweetspot for me. Love the analog in sports cars as long as enough tech is available.
Zero interest in the 992s.
I would agree that the 991 overall is the sweet spot. Although the size gain from the 997 is pretty big, the improvement of the pdk over the 997.2 is worth it. Also it retains the N/A howl in the .1 before they introduced the turbos, if you don't care much about power.
EPS is trash in the 981/991 though.. essentially has 0 feel compared to the gens before.. the only real drawback (you can get the software retuned, but it's only a marginal improvement).. Gimmie a 987.2 base cayman/boxster.. that 2.9 doesnt have IMS or cylinder lining (cylinder lining degradation causes bore scoring issues).. pretty much bulletproof (from the normal p-car issues of this era)
PDK? ew. Just buy a Prius if you want something automatic to run errands around town...
Bigger footprint, but the 991 was actually a little bit lighter than the 997.
@@dre32pitt You can fix the 991.1 EPS though. All models use the same module as the GT3 EPS steering. The GT3 steering was lauded as being fantastic. You can enable the GT3 steering settings in any model's steering module using a PIWIS. Won't be 100% as good as GT3, as you won't have the control arms, but it makes it vastly better.
@@colinbowman8816 Who would want a Prius though??? While I prefer manuals the pdks are fantastic.
Great video, but I’m hooked on my 6 speed 997.2 4s 👍
Would you say this has better steering feel than the base 991.1 3.4 you tested? I recall you not liking the steering feel in that much
The main problem I have with the manual 991.1 C4S since new and never get tripped up or stumble about what gear to be in. The manual makes it more enjoyable to drive. The issue though is the car needs to rev to faster than the speed limit in 2nd gear to get in the power band
I've only driven a 997.1 carrera 4s the sound was the best thing about it
STUNNING!
Options like this will cost you over 70k. I know because I bought one and drove for 6 months. Almost same option. 4S, Sports Design bumper, sports design mirror, dual tone full leather, pdk, pasm, pse, 20inch classic wheels etc.
You can still get 991.1 for $50-60k but it's going to be low optioned,high mileage, 3+ owners, etc. 911.1 is overall great daily car. Sold it for 718 spyder 6spd. Wanted it something more fun/raw for the weekend.
Btw 4S runs almost 90% on rear wheel only. I had my eyes on the power monitor and front wheel get power only when you are moving from dead stop.
Or get a 981S for £35k. I did, fully loaded, 28k miles and 1 previous owner. The 719 spyder looks amazing though
I don't want all wheel drive - but I do like everything else about the car. I don't use the stiffest suspension mode as it's too stiff for the roads that I drive on. However, the shifts are awesome. I only drive in manual mode so I don't car about auto mode. The understeer is real, but so is that grip. The sound close to redline is so nice, especially when it reverberates off of rocks or tunnels. It's weird to me that you take your hands off the wheel to shift when the paddles are right there, but to each their own.
i am pretty sure its a gtr type of awd where its mostly rwd in the sense that 80 percent of the power is delivered to the rear while 20 percent to the front for better grip
Love my 911 so much. They’re all really great in their own ways.
Dude I’ll take any Porsche! But this one looks sick
Hey, as a weekend car would you get this or a 997.2 S? And better than both of them a 997.1 GT3? Thanks!
The 991.1 GTS is the sweet spot. Any of the 991 NA cars are great.
991.2 4s 7spd manual and tune. 600hp perfection
The 7spd man is notoriously disliked
I agree this is the sweet spot. NA, has the wider rear, PDK
is much better than on the 997.2, very useable
Retrofit CarPlay like this owner did and it’s a complete package
I have a 2013 991.1 C2S with Fabspeed headers if you want to do a video. I think you are in SoCal?
Where can I find one ? And , What’s a Reasonable Price ??
This or a 2-year-old C8 with Z51 and MR dampers?
try and get a 991.1 c4 GTS and let me know your thoughts on this
I might get one tomorrow. Manul too! I had a 997.1, 997.2 and a 991.2 C4S in the past.....the 997.1 was burning oil so it had to go, the 997.2......stupidly i traded that for a new GT350.....the 991.2...nice car but boring engine.
You are supposed to guide me from 997.2 to 992 or take me on a trip to 982 instead. How am I supposed to know what to get?
I prefer the subtle shifter of the 992 to the big dong shifter in the 991.
You are the first person in history who likes that parts-bin plastic shifter over the 991 leather one.
You mean that razor stub? No
The these long ones look hideous, although the alloy is nice
Hey, whats the color or the car? Looks stunning
Looks to be either Speed Yellow or Signal Yellow. Standard yellow of the time was Racing Yellow which is way too light for my liking. This car could be PTS optioned but more likely a wrap.
This is PTS signal Yellow
The GT3 doesn't have wide hips. The RS does, the regular GT3 does not. And this car has 400hp, unless it has the optional Powerkit, which is doubtful, as it's very rare outside of the GTS, where it's standard.
There are 3 bodies in think. C2 and C2S have the narrow body, GTS, 4, 4S, GT3 had the wide then the RS and turbo has even wider
@@Earmuffin585 Nope. The GT3 has the same body as the C2 and C2S. GTS, 4, 4S have a wider body with no intake ahead of the rear wheels, the Turbo and RS have the wider body plus the intakes. The non-RS GT3 absolutely, positively is not wide body.
I like the look of the 991 but it just seems to have too much technology for me. Is the driving experience still somewhat analog?
@@C4S911 more analog than the 992.
What technology? It has a nav screen, tcs, stability control, and PDK. These things you get in the 997. Its the 992's especially the 992.2 that has technology that make it less engaging.
@@Unicornpirate I’m talking about technology as in sport exhaust, sport plus, sport chrono, tampering adjustments, etc….. that’s not my thing… it’s nanny features at the end of the day that takes away the raw feeling of driving a car. I’m used to more analog Porsches and cars. But I do like the PDK for an automatic transmission tho. Don’t know what era you were born in but those things I listed are extra technology that I don’t need and it doesn’t excite me. That’s why I turned down the 997 when I got my first Porsche. Might revisit it again one day as I think it’s the last true 911 that has the engine way in the back. 996 and 997 drive pretty similar to me, except the 996 feels more responsive IMO.
@@C4S911 I was born in the mid 80s. Those things are fine. Things that I can't stand are worthless features like self driving, lane keep assist, adaptive cruise with their radars, EVs, pumped in engine noise from the speakers, modern turbo engines that create instant torque but fall off at 6k rpm and feel like a muscle car, piano black interior and touchscreens. I have a 997.1 that has sport Chrono, PASM, sport exhaust and it doesn't bother me one bit. Also if I want a pure driving experience, I have my Elise which doesn't even have power steering. Maybe you should stick with a 70s Porsche if you think all that is too much technology for you
@@Unicornpirate I have generally driven air cooled which aren’t all built in the 1970’s….. 964 and the 993 were build in the 80’s and 90’s…. And they both have a more raw driving experience than the 997.1 and of course technology wasn’t as advanced then but IMO the 997.1 could do without the nanny features and the drive by wire as well.
I’m not saying the 997.1 is a bad car even though it has its issues like many 911 models. At the end of the day it’s a 911 but a more bigger leap tech wise from the previous models.
That's not a Sport Design front bumper BTW
991.1 Carrera S RWD with a 7 speed manual is the sweeter spot
991.1 Carrera steering feels dead to me and is a deal breaker. Otherwise, a great daily 911. 997 all day as a weekend car for me.
I can answer that. Nope! Ultimately, no 4WD 911 is the sweetspot and the 991.1 C4S is no exception. it just slightly dulls the experience to no real benefit. Even for winter driving a 2S on winter tyres will get you almost everywhere you're likely to need to go / that the 4S will get you. Oh and not with PDK, either.
Do these early examples not have bore score issues?
bore score issued ended with the 997.1 era. 997.2 and up are all on new engines 9A1/2 (i think). Easy way to think about it is all engines with pdk's have no bore score issues.
@@strmshadow8411 They've found bore scoring in any cars that have the cylinder lining, which includes 991.1 and 991.2.. They just havent been popping off as much because ppl drive the 991/981 MUCH less (only the 981 S's have this issue as the 2.7 doesnt have cylinder linings and is considered bulletproof).
Edit: Just google 'bore scoring 991' and you get a lot of results the only cars that are pretty much 100% bulletproof are the 987.2 BASE and 981 BASE engines.. No cylinder lining and no IMS..
@@strmshadow8411 Google '991 bore scoring'.. it's still prevalent.. Only the base 2.7 in the 981 and the 2.9 from the 987.2 (better choice imo because of the hydraulic steering) are considered 'bulletproof' since they have no IMS and no cylinder lining (which causes the bore scoring as it degrades over time)..
You can keep the bore scoring at bay with quality oil (extra lubricity).. my 987.1 CS didnt have any evidence of bore scoring.. visually or via Blackstone oil analysis, but the previous owner was a PCA regional VP, lol.. so he know what was up.. Sadly though, i sold the 987.1 to a friend and the IMS let go during his 5th session of a track day at the Ridge in WA.. I did one track day in the same car, but my friend pushes a lot harder than I do on track.
@@dre32pitt No, it's not prevalent in the 991.1. It's largely a scare story. And it's not bore scoring. Some 9A1 engines have cylinder seizing which damages the bores, but the scoring thing on 9A1 engines is nonsense being amplified by the internet, probably because it's so rampant on the M97 engine and the seizing issue superficially seems like scoring. Whatever, it's nothing like the scale / failure rate on the M97 re scoring. Not remotely comparable.
@@dre32pitt I hadn't heard much about any issues with the 9A1 and later engines. The bigger issues as you saw with your cold car was the IMS bearing. Obviously they don't affect all the engines but it's a pretty good reason to buy a 997.2 or later model.
Ah yes, the sweetspot when you have 70K to spend.
Way past the sweet spot for 911s.
991.1 C2S vs C8 Corvette Z51
@@maximus9401 great idea
@@Zygrene maybe we can throw in a 981 Cayman GTS if it fits in that price range. With the goal here being to find the best value for "midship" sports cars $60-80k that some of us could even aspire to afford without needing allocations and special treatment
Gib me le Porsche please. Hah
981 GT4 is the better car at this price point.
is that PTS bahama yellow?
Signal yellow
So over priced it’s no longer desirable or interesting
Please stop hyping any of these for content. We dont want the greedy losers markimg them up
They're gonna try to keep those up forever lol
If you didnt get in pre-covid, you're fucked lol
@@dre32pitt True, I was trying to buy a 991.1 turbo when they were dipping into the 90s. Missed out on such a deal 🥲
@@strmshadow8411 For that kind of money, i'd go 997.2 CS2, personally.. Just prefer the look of the 997s.. just looks... right
Edit: or for a bit more, a 997.1 Turbo S.. the ultimate all-weather DD
@@dre32pitt Nah, had a 997.2 turbo. Loved the car, but the pdk in it soured some of the experience. Although it wasn't bad by any measure, it was more clunky than the 991's updated unit.