[TF2] The Curious Case of the Flying Guillotine
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
- Yeah, I can't pronounce "L'etranger" but I can pronounce "Guillotine," wrap your heads around that one.
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Jet Set Radio OST - เกม
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The weapon itself is a reference to Valves butchered item balance
I see what you did there
"Scouts melee slot is disposable." No, the fish is a necessity for any and all Scout builds lol
while this is true, i would argue that swarms of scouts do better with frying pans (annoying sounds for psychological warfare)
@@voximperatoris1175 so we need a metal fish, to make frying pan noises *and* kill people with a fish? I like it...
@@Obsdragon sadly, that in my opinion would be simply too much power to bestow upon scouts. i'm not exaggerating when i say that i'd rather fight off hordes of bots than a pack of scouts armed with the unholy union of fish, metal and annoying sound effects
The boston basher is the CBT that completes the PP scout loadout.
Wrong again. But why bother arguing with brainless "friendlies"?
All I can hear is WUNUNUNUNUNUNUH
WUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUN
wananananananana
Wololo
@@JamesonTucker-zn4zj Narwini
@@iamglassthingy3373 Erectus.
Scout thinks hes the real slim shady
"Can real slim shady pls stand up. I repeat, real slim shady stand up. I think we are gonna have a problem"
I’m not convinced that he isnt
@@Welsh7133I mean both came from a lower class area
I'm still surprised you haven't made a video like how the Scorch shot is evil, but instead for the Vaccinator.
I'd argue that MANY more classes hate fighting the Vaccinator than they do fighting the scorch shot.
Scotch shot is more annoying then anything. Even with the phlog, it still not that powerful. The vax while it needs skill, can shut down most classes. Seriously 75% damage resistance with crit immunity might as well be the same a Uber.
@@starmaker75 I do know that vax isn't banned in competitive or is nowhere near as oppressive in that format as Casual, and IMO it needs a fully complete rework as tweaking its numbers will only just make it more bearable and just annoying at the best possible scenario.
In it's current state, it just really doesn't feel like a weapon that belongs in TF2.
Theory-Y-Studio's vid on nerfing it is the best one IMO and I love all the reworks he proposed.
-no passive resists
-Instead of 3 individual and very big damage resist ubercharges, the vax provides one universal damage resist ubercharge (equal to a battalion's), an ubercharge that boosts the patient's speed, and an ubercharge that boosts the patient's reload speed.
The Vaccinator is easy to fix. The biggest issue it has is how the Medics that run it are effectively unkillable if they have a modicum of awareness.
To solve this, simply make the Vaccinator no more longer shield the Medic himself, and maybe as compensation bring back the tiny self healing thing it used to have to punish people that insist on shooting the heal target instead.
Unfortunately, the Vaccinator is one of the best counters to sniperbots. It's a necessary evil.
I hate that weapon and I’m a medic main. You basically always have Uber if you’re competent, it’s ridiculous.
Important footnote: the cleaver is only banned in sixes, not Highlander, at least in North America.
From my experience using it it’s really really good on koth, but not much else in HL.
ive seen alot of cleaver use on payload maps these past 2 seasons unfortunately
@@StrangeFestivewhy unfortunately? It’s a cool weapon
@tarot3078 its honestly not fun to deal with in comp, I'll agree it's fun and cool in casual but I've gotten some really undeserved kills across the map with double bleed
Thing about the Guillotine is often you only have one shot and opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted
But then you snap back to reality
@@Duothimir Who gives a crap about gravity
@@tehesprite502 "Me!" (Gravity Fails)
@@PDudeJr" My dispenser! D:"
**crawls into toolbox**
Muffled: "(Its a real bad day..)"
@@tehesprite502 you'll be nervous, but try to look calm and ready.
I do wish that the cleaver would at least gain mini-crits on debuffed/airborne targets. I think that would be pretty fair since the strafing bug does exist and it gives him some niche team options. Perhaps dynamically increasing the cool down when this effect triggers would also balance it out.
Right now it's less a weapon that rewards careful aim, timing, and game sense and more something you spam down chokepoints since the cool down is so godamn fast. Sure you can go for moon shots and trick shots, but you're not really getting rewarded for them.
Also woe, cleaver be upon ye.
The strafing bug was fixed a while ago as far as I know.
crits or mini crits on bleeding players? so it now works with the wrap assassin instead of the sandman
@pinkiepyro5964 I would love that
Airshot cleavers would be hella fun to pull off
@@pinkiepyro5964the damage this would do would be insane but it wouldnt stun so maybe people wouldnt mind
13:05 that shot on the retreating scout was a thing of absolute beauty! My man thought he was getting away clean
@T.EX.T-FishStickOnAStickGaming piss off bot
6:55 Ok, this is so stupid. Not only he just died, but he also ate your projectile! Who needs enemies, with a dad like this?
For a long time, I thought you had to hit the head with the guillotine for guaranteed crits.
It's one of those Mandela effect things I guess, but with TF2 stats.
Given the name it would make sense, but given how often the Huntsman thinks it hits someone in the head, it would be WAY too OP.
Based dwarf fortress enjoyer
Heres a little something to get your money up. Keep that chin up Fish
5:30 Ah, someone playing scout targeting the sentry first and not the Engineer that built it. Some things just never change, do they?
Engineers miss shots but sentries do not. If the engineer's aim isn't good, you will lose less health if you dodge well and kill the mini first.
@@ME0WMERE I'm assuming you meant to put that first sentence the other way around?
@@omzyma6136 e
@@omzyma6136 perhaps
Flava be upon yee
Can’t handle the flava?
Bro stop with the f*cking bleeds.
Flava (socially distanced)
2 Flava 4 TH-cam
@@modestheliolisk BASED pfp
Thumbnail is a great reference.
"Wait a second... I just remembered! CAPTURE THE FLAG HAS CRITS ON CAP!!!" Turns around, pulling out his cleaver as the Enemy Scout turns the corner. "YOU FOOL!" Throws the Flying Guillotine with a "Ty the Tasmanian Tiger" Boomerang SFX being played as the cleaver flies towards the Red Scout and cleaves their head open, causing a funny rag doll as they fall face first into the water!
I used the wingstick skin for the longest time, so good
Cringe
Undoubtedly, we live in virtual insanity
An item just not working for both casual and comp at the same time is best addressed by just keeping the balance pub-focused and letting it stay banned. Wish Valve had figured that out before they nerfed the Quick Fix.
8:28 when competetive player discovers that game can be funny
7:34 this can actually be a great way to train your aim. It certainly worked for me
TBh comp shouldn't be really considered when it comes to balancing. 6's and Highlander are so different and so small that it's next to impossible to perfectly balance everything for both audiences. just let them ban it and leave it at that.
highlander balance isn't that much different but 6s balance vs casual is a whole different beast
this is fine, smogon singles in pokemon does it just fine
Balancing the weapons for MYM Competitive is what lead to some of the most unpopular nerfs to weapons that were just fine in casual. So yes, definitely. Competitive should be ignored when balancing weapons. The competitive scene will just ban it if it's too powerful.
Highlander may get included with Casual balance since it's really close
I've only played TF2 for two years before they violently murdered The Sandman, I didn't even play Scout that much; yet another seven years later I still clearly remember every single Sandman + Guillotine combo compilation that I had watched. I really miss using sandman against other sandman users, it was really fun for me when I only started playing
100 health on Sandman makes you really vulnerable
They should give it a Holiday Punch-type stat where you can still stun and crit other Sandman users
@@jblazerndrowzy and bring back the "crit upon the stun" mechanic. Funny ragdolls for the win.
150 damage for the cleaver combo is a little unfair. 100 damage + bleed is pretty fair. Especially when the sandman basically doesn't stun you at all anymore.
yeah, if the base impact damage of the cleaver was reduced from 50 to 30, i think that would be a great way to give us our funny ragdolls back
Short stop + flying guillotine + fan of war. I love this lodaut, trow guillotyne and a full clip of the shortstop, reload and thorw yhe guillotine again. And the fan o war for heavys ans mini crit bleed. Love it.
The cleaver is part of my fav subclass: Knife Scout. Backscatter, Cleaver, Rune Blade. And don't forget to dress sharp :)
I'd love if this became it's own series! We have bad weapon academy, covering bad weapons. In defence of, covering good weapons, and curious case where the weapons fall somewhere between the two.
The flying guillotine has always been a curious case to me
Good choice of the jsr music 😊
The thumbnail is perfect ❤.
Woe, portable french revolution be apon ye.
Guaranteed crits for however long the slow lasts for from the sandman, boom combo back, and nothing really needs to be changed because the sandman adds so little that you’re just health for a crit every once in a while
Well I appreciate the transparency Fish. Love your videos dude.
Classic TF2 pub experience courtesy of "Bluegrass Boi" at 3:04
This was every online game with text chat before censorship. The internet before smartphones really was a different place.
Oh I remember it well. Lots to miss about it, for sure, but also a lot of braindead shit like this.
Man this, the sandman, and the ambassador make me incredibly sad, where did the good old days go? 😔
I can imagine a timeline where the Guillotine gets crits on moonshots to tie it back with the Sandman, but I think it'd have to get its damage cut down to 40 on impact just so you don't get huntsman arrows deleting Medics on a bodyshot. On that note, I think the Wrap Assassin should have mini-crits on moonshot, get that damage buff to the bleed.
psst, heres a fun fact: wrap assassin gets full crits on moonshots
@@dani1999n give the Sandman full crits on moonshots.
"Yeah, I can't pronounce "L'etranger" but I can pronounce "Guillotine,""
It's just so commonplace, especially when hungry
It's kinda like the Smash Ball from Smash Bros.
It's a ton of fun casually, but there are some aspects of Final Smashes (namely Peach and Daisy, who get a full, unneutered effect even with the weaker meter version), that prevent it from being in competitive.
I do think a subleague featuring the Smash Ball or Final Smash meter could be fun though.
the structure of this video was actually fantastic, good work Fish
I like this guy
im so tired that I thought your comment said "the structure of this video is ceramic, good material"
I think if we were to bring back the crit cleaver glory, there's a couple ways we could go about it.
1. Have the Guillotine crit against bleeding enemies. That would eliminate the "competition from the Wrap Assassin" issue (and in fact _encourage_ people to run *_BOTH_* weapons, instead), and would even have great synergy with the Boston Basher, as that also causes bleed.
2. Have the Guillotine crit whenever it would normally mini-crit. This one might be a smidge more balanced as Scout's only means of causing mini-crits is with the Fan O' War, but there's also the Buff Banner and Jarate that would become additional sources of crits.
In either case, as you mentioned, I think the recharge time would have to be doubled or even _tripled_ from what it is, now.
rlly good video, ithink more of these 'curious case' videos would b interesting to delve into the more Weird things goin on with the weapons that arent really Bad or Overpowered like inthe other videos
I would say that the balance of the Sandman Guillotine combo is actually having the skill to pull it off.
“Videos like these are made possible by viewers like you” I just got reminded of pbs kids
I think an area that is often overlooked with the Flying Guillotine or bleed items in general is that they essentially allow you to 'Dual weild' your damage.
You can't use a pisol at the same time as the scattergun but having someone bleeding WHILE you fight them can feel like hell for the other dude
While you did touch on it at the end I think an almost overlooked element of the cleaver is that it makes bursting down heavies a LOT easier
if you tag them with the Cleaver first. 90 damage plus the scattergun is a crazy ammount of damage before some players can even react.
It's genuinly a good weapon for 1v1's vs buffed players or heavies, usually good scout counters.
I guess being awake at 2AM is one way of being first
Also having a membership. Lol
The flying peeotine
love your videos, keep the good work
Oh boy I can't to pay TF2 and deal with a bunch of clevers scouts for a few days
i love how half the vid he's running the flava loadout for scout
I think the cloak and dagger should get an in defense of episode it’s a nifty side grade that sacrifices mobility in exchange for being able to pick your battles
Plus its similarities to stock has an added benefit of being able to trick people since they can’t tell which watch you’re using something not even the dead ringer can do.
In all honesty, i think the Guillotine is in a perfect spot, on minor change i make is if you kill someone with the initial hit it makes the rag dolls go flying so you dont need crits.
Rework idea: (x)% damage penalty
Crits launched players
(x)% deploy penalty
No random crits
Launched meaning rocket jumping players or players moved by other third party displacement like air blast, FAN, etc. would lead to hype combos/airshots, rewarding skill. Deploy penalty may be necessary to avoid an air blast -> reserve shooter situation. Could be replaced with “holster” penalty to punish spamming/ more clearly define the weapon as a finishing tool. Thoughts?
Fish needs to make a cameo next time Soundsmith makes a video on flava, it'd be glorious!
the moment I recognize Blu's loadout struck a nostalgia trip on me. both him and the sandman combo
8:35 lmao that disrespect for the sniper
Thank you for the video!
i like this as a series
Hope your finances get better fish, great video as always.
I usually use like Luger because I have it. But I use the cleaver and wraps with my favored gun soda popper and it’s so much fun
From experience, if using the cleaver, go stock scattergun with it
Do not pair this with any primary that had less than 4 bullets in the clip
You will be left without a reliable damage finisher more often than not
"Great is the weapon that cuts on its own."
Love the video! I have no worries about the donation goal in the corner, but maybe raise your hud so nothings being covered? ❤
but what if the Guillotine crits on bleeding enemies?
i think what seperates the cleaver from items like the jarate is that its entirely single target and its secondary effect is entirely negatable
The Flying Guillotine in TF2 has always seemed like a curious case to me.
Damn some of these clips are pretty huge, Fish's Cleaver aim might rival his Sniper aim
i think if crit clevers were to ever come back it should pair with the fan where you mark someone with the fan then the mini crit would become a crit for the clever, or it should be paired with the sandman again but the clever crits whenever to slowed targets
I never got to experience the old sandman i would have loved to see a 2009 server with all the old effects
Can i suggest, for the dopamine hit of the Sandman Cleaver;
-Bit less damage
-Crit on Airshots and/or headshots
-lower bleed damage per tick but a longer duration.
Less straight-up damage for emergencies, but you get that snap decision of “Trolldier? WHACK! Another Scout? WHACK! A demo with stickies out? WHACK- Oh he pulled out the pipes and nailed me right in the kisser twice.”
One more thing about cleaver vs wrap assassin is physics. The travel speed and weight of the cleaver compared to the ornament makes it so much easier to aim IMO.
Something with the cleaver + wrap that you didn't mention hitting both will take out a 125 hp class unless they are right next to a healthkit. If the wrap assassin high rolls or crits, that'll also take out a 175 hp class as well. Medic is hit or miss if the dots will get him because of his passive regen though.
God that 2fort Cleaver crit clip at the end just gives me life. Also yeah i think the Flying Guillotine is honestly fine where it is balance wise currently and it is the only weapon in TF2 i can think of that has no major weaknesses but its strenghts are just balanced enough that it does not become completely overpowered as it once used to be.
One of my favorite secondaries
i think it would be neat if it’s like the bazaar bargain where the more kills it gets the faster the recharge nerf the starting and cap it at the long range hit’s 3.5 sec and it would be pretty fun to use
hey fish, best of luck with the finances and whatnot. i recently hit a rough patch with money problems, and i know how tough it can be. stay strong out there!
I said for the sandman video bringing back the combo with the sandman in it's current state would be really interesting given that its not a full stun anymore and just a slow I think it might be more balanced but you could play around with it being full crits or mini crits.
I want the cleaver combo back, even if it's nerfed or doesn't do anything beyond playing a satisfying sound effect.
It was just satisfying.
Flava scout will always be my favourite subclass
I feel like minicrits on it in some way (super long range shots? on debuffed targets?) would be cool
It already has minicrits on long-range shots. See how irrelevant that is? lol
Imagine the cleaver being able to crit just like the Sandman and Wrap Assassin balls
My idea for the crits coming back is this:if you can deal 175-250 damage before the cooldown is over, you get a guaranteed crit, but the next cooldown is twice as long, and the crit threshold goes up to 450
I still think that they could have literally just changed the effect the cleaver crits with at long range to the slow down effect of the sandman. They could even go so far as to have it be like the axtinguisher where it does more damage based on how long the slowdown effect has left when hit by the cleaver. This would probably be the better option as it does mean that if you take too long to get that 2nd hit you won't do as much damage as the crit combo.
i don’t play tf2 but i think the best change here is makng the recharge time like 15-20 seconds but it crits on bleeding targets
The tf2 flying guillotine has always seen like a strange case to me
3:06 nice chat message from Bluegraass Boi :-(
The only change id change is instead of stun make it bleed or mini crit = crit hit.
And
Lower damage by making full health enemies left with 20 health meaning a non damage class hit with a crit charged cleaver will have like a good 4 seconds to get healed or find a healthpack. Making it a super useful forced enemy retreating weapon
nice Layzuhcatz reference from your thumbnail.
Also the background song is 100% Jet Set Radio.
Im a huge fan of crit cleavers too and making crit on bleed be the replacement makes a lot of sense IF you reduce the base damage of the cleaver from 50 -> 35
105 crits arent to be scoffed at especially after any of the other bleed effects that hit before. It still makes for a lethal combo and pairs with the wrap assassin. If the cleavers bleed was long enough to let you hit another cleaver on the same target for the crit thatd be crazy but also a huge reward for managing to hit the same target twice with 2 seperate cleavers in close succession
I am not here to discuss viability or usefulness. I am here for sportsmanship
Bfb, guillotine, wrap assassin is my favorite scout loadout. Wait until you get a safe long range bleed projectile hit, then go sonic speed
I don't remember where I heard it, but I saw people talking about bringing back the sandman cleaver combo in a more balanced fashion, that being to put the "crits when it would minicrit" from the Fan O' War onto the Guillotine, and changing the Sandman's ball from slowing to mark for death. Would it be powerful? Maybe, but it's still a bit more fair, seeing as the enemy can still fight back.
Havent played this game in 8 years idk why i watch so much tf2 content
cloak and dagger
I feel like it should minicrit bleeding and slowed enemies. Alternative it has the axetinquisher effect of dealing remaining bleed damage same with the tribalmans shiv
To summarise it simply: it is all about the ragdolls man. XD
What if they changed the Sandman to mark people for death like you said in the video on that, and then gave the cleaver the "crits whenever it would mini-crit" stat? It would bring back the combo without the stun, so it would be harder and more satisfying to pull off, and not as annoying to fight. Would also give a better use case for the Fan.
Ima be honest the atomizer is cool but if u want movement just use the fan. And if ur using the fan you can one pop most people after hitting them with the wrap assasin which also have splash and the cleaver is very good because it can send people straight back to re supply from blood. Also 60 damage into a fan shot again one shots and has way more mobility.
I like to use the fan of war with the Guillotine to see the ragdoll more often
What if the cleaver could deal fill crits against blast jumping, jetpacking or grappling hooking?
The sad thing is that I could recognise humming the baseline,sneakman and sweet soul brother ect in the background (I'm too far into jet set radio) edit: I feel like this is the universe telling me to do something with the amount of time i have put in to game.
Before seeing the video, the only thing i want from the guillotine is a bleed distinct from the wrap-assasin, so that i can do 8 damage per second instead of a pitifull 4.
After seeing it, my opinion does not change.
your opinion should change, because the bleed stacks. it's a ton of damage
@@percher4824 that's the point. Doing tons of DoT
@@SeleverEnjoyer it doesn't need more DoT
@@percher4824 need /=/ fun.