That's because they use models and then they add in some CGI for the energy weapons and fire damage. Models are real things, so they will always look more real than CGI, its why in the new star wars movies they went back to using practical effects and using models for the ships.
@@Jake-cm9jj Actually, all the ships in this space battle are CGI (models). There are no practical effects. It explains why ships (Galaxy class, Excelsior class) look different than what we were used to. They started using CGI first for the 6x06 episode Sacrifice of Angels as motion control shooting models was not feasible. Motion control required shooting each ship (each type) individually and since there are a huge variety of ships types, it would have required too much time. CGI was the cheaper alternative. My sources: memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/CGI and memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sacrifice_of_Angels_(episode).
It seems to be what they were designed for - the Miranda class at 01:19 soaked up (as best I could count) twelve direct hits, compared to the (I believe) Excelsior class which could only handle ONE or the Akira (which should be so much more powerful it's almost laughable) which managed to tank six. The Galaxy class near the start didn't seem to be doing half as well either, but it's probably not fair to count it since you don't see it get obliterated, just damaged.
@@aecides3203plus it was toast after the first couple hits. probably the platforms were trying to hit the bigger starships in the distance. Glory looks like got it right:-)
2:59 I love the attention to detail here. The first phaser fire from the Excelsior class is absorbed by the drone's shields, then as the drone shuts down, the phaser cuts right through.
Surprised to see shields reappear as a thing in DS9 for this episode only and for the weapons platforms only. All other ships remains completely without shields.
@@AndrewGiammattei I'm not sure if this is ever explained, but my head cannon explanation is that the Dominion used phased polaron weapons which pretty much cut through shields. I think the shields are still functioning, they just aren't as effective. Maybe they also change their shield projection from a bubble to be closer to the hull to help mitigate that advantage.
That's because those ships are so old and outclassed by DS9 time frame, the only reason they're there is the Feds are so desperate against the Dominion.
Well the good news is at this point all the ships were skeleton crews (last minute) but yeah if I was assigned to Miranda would rather take my chances with a court Marshall lol.
In an alternate timeline, Wesley became captain of the Enterprise, the youngest ever. Picard became HIS first officer. It was a short glimpse, but a very cool one.
To all those people talking about how unlucky the Mirandas are, I'd point out that we only saw ONE Mirada (the USS ShirKahr, named for a Vulcan city) get wrecked, but we also saw an Excelsior (the USS Valley Forge) and an unnamed Akira getting wrecked as well. Conversely, we saw two Mirandas (the USS Nautilus and USS Tian An Men) fly right into the lion's den along side the Defiant and survive.
It's just cause that's how cruiser classes are. The constitution was a deep space explorer with state-of-the-art technology for the time. Because everything is state of the art and new and 20-30 years down the line, the space frame just won't be able to handle the load of what's new at the time. So you'd just need a new class designed for your new ship of the line. Galaxy class ships as beautiful and elegant as they are gradually being fazed out in favour of the Ross-class. Miranda class ships filled a niche that just didn't call for constant innovation. Though it is being replaced with the Centaur class of starships. Even the other outlier Excelsior class is getting replaced by the Excelsior II class which is just a testament to how good that starship design is. Literally smacked a 2 at the end of the name and called it a day cause no one's got shit on the Excelsior. I kind of rambled but Starfleet ship designs just get me going. @wolf6747
@@phelanwolf6747Miranda class was a multi-purpose modular starship, essentially the swiss army knife of ships, nothing really fit that role after it, but with the constitution class line (of which there was a training ship of that class in service at wolf 359, so it may still have a few of it's line around) it was outclassed by the Excelsior, Ambassador and Galaxy class line, the Excelsior being the only other ship to last as long as it did due to having such a capable spaceframe.
Shields won`t be installed until Tuesday 😄 ps.: Admiral: "Congratulations Ensign, you gratuaded and finished Starfleet Academy. Here is your new red uniform and you`ll be asigned to the U.S.S. Suicide, a Miranda Class Star Ship". Me: "a Red Shirt and a Miranda Class Starship.. heck no. Here is my resignation, good bye"
Admiral: "You misunderstand, Ensign. That word, 'suicide,' it's Vulcan, not English. It doesn't mean the same thing." Ensign: "Oh, OK, sir. What does it mean?" Admiral: "It means 'To die in the vacuum of space.'"
Except the Miranda-class _is_ the first ship modern Starfleet captains get in _Star Trek Online_ . In the year 2409. First you fight some Klingon, then the Borg.
Wait! We forgot to introdce you to your weapons officer! He reschooled, was in the military, ground forces, but great commendations!!! So ... ? Imperial Stormtrooper command and ... hey wait!!!
The Galaxy really got her day in the sun on DS9 (finally) after 7 years of getting her shit tucked in by Romulans, Tamarians, fucking Ferengi, Space babies, extinct empire outposts, millennia-old booby traps, and finally, ignominiously, by 2 Klingon hags in a hundred year old rust bucket.
the 2 klingon hags...that was only because they got to see the layout of the ship and hit every important thing they could before they were killed...oh and plot called for the D to go down
@@SuperGamefreak18 yeah, the galaxy class should be able to wipe the floor with a bird of prey with just its saucer section on auxiliary power. that was such a terrible movie
@@enshk79 honestly the "battle" in generations was fine as it still took an unshielded shot to destroy said old bird of prey but because of the movies antagonist the duras sisters were allowed free shots in a battle that where both were at 100% and the shield frequency wasnt compromised then yeah if anything that battle was the embarrassment that resulted in a reality check
Its A MOVIIIE trust me if u saw real combat (even real life ones in afghanistan let alone realistic space battles) youll be bored outta your fucking mind.
yeah the shields seemed not to exist, so I was wondering what TF were they firing that ignored shields. even its power source shield didn't seem to work against them, they never explained it. would of been nice. Guess it was something the dominion gave them to penetrate shields. Like they did the galaxy class destroyed when they first met the jem hadar.
@@cranbers Phased polaron beam was the polaron particle discharge of the extremely powerful ship-mounted directed energy weapon used by Dominion starships in the late 24th century. Jem'Hadar fighters were equipped with a phased polaron beam emitter as their primary offensive weapon. During the early years of hostilities, from 2370 onward, phased polaron beam weaponry gave Dominion ships a decisive tactical advantage against Alpha Quadrant forces. The beam was capable of penetrating the deflector shields used by Federation, Romulan, and Cardassian starships, as if the ships weren't shielded at all. (DS9: "The Jem'Hadar", "The Die is Cast") The ablative armor of the USS Defiant proved to be an effective defense against phased polaron beams, allowing the Defiant to survive several direct hits in battle. (DS9: "The Search, Part I")
@@obi-wankenobi573 Thanks for clarifying I forgot about the phased polaron beam that they introduced when the odyssey was destroy when they first met the jem hadar, but they did say that the federation adapter their shields to block it now (remember that scene where they were attacking ds9 and Dukot and weyoun was shocked the stations shields are holding and they were surprised federation could block their weapons now). Guess this was some new and improved version of that, even the "power source" of the weapon platforms didn't even block it. You did see it in a few scenes where the Defiant took direct hits and it was just fire coming off of it, guess that was the abladive armor not it bouncing off the shields. Granted they did use that same effect throughout a lot of the show.
I believe it was because of budget and clarity reasons. To render shields on every single ship required more time, more money and with the sheer number of ships being shot at you'd see nothing but shield effects. That's why you only saw shields on the weapon platforms, asteroid and nothing else. Notice how in large ship vs ship battles, regardless as to what ship or side it was, shields weren't being rendered.
@@Aldaris1234567 That's a good point but when you see ships getting hit and destroyed with one hit and no sign shields were there, it causes questions from us Trek fans right.
@@TornadoHound some of them are, some were refit and some like the oddesy got destroyed before that could even happen. Strictly speaking they are long range heavy explorers
@@purestrain3099 Going by the Starfleet /Klingon Academy ship type definitions, the Galaxy class is heavy battlecrusier as she is heavily armed with conventional weapons.
@@purestrain3099 actually most of them you see in the Dominion War were partly constructed explorers that were quickly built to operational standards without unnecessary interior modules such as labs etc, so you are both right.
0:25 Klingon weapons officer: Q'apla! I've managed to score a direct hit on that Jem'Hadar ship! (Jem'Hadar ship crashes into an attack cruiser). Klingon weapon officer: Uhhhh...
MrDibara there were also trained Kamikaze pilots with planes full of explosives specialised to take out massive dreadnoughts and carriers so what the jem'hadar were doing here makes sense on the vor'cha cruisers but I didn't get why you should ram a bird of prey that is even weaker than your own ship
The D'Deridex was the ONLY ship being shown in these battles! :'( That's my only real gripe with the Romulans in this show, they only ever had the one kind of starship. _Would've been nice to see one or two other types of ship appearing, just for a little more diversity._ Though obviously not the horrendous designs at the end of "Picard Season 1", I'm talking about designs more similar to the Norexan-Class (the Valdore from "ST Nemesis") or the Birds of Prey we saw in "Enterprise".
I’ve always assumed the CGI for the Steamrunner and Saber class ships weren’t as well rendered, as you only ever see them small in the background. Compared to the more up close detailed shots we get of the Galaxy, Excelsior, Miranda and Akira classes
Standard packet when assigned to Miranda Class ship . Item 1 orders posting you to your new ship .Item 2 Form to update will . Item 3 Notice to family that you have been assigned to a Miranda instructing them to look for the death notice of their loved one . Item 4 Token for one free evening at the Naughty Nebula (just to make sure no one dies a virgin .... even if it is Star Trek) Located just across the Quad from the Freshman billets .
You know this crew truly represents what a Starfleet crew should look like. You five different species as part of the command crew plus a non-human commanding. I say any new show set in this era needs to follow this example.
Wow those effects still look as great as I remember. I actually taped this and used to watch it in slo-mo to see all the details. Good times and pretty good memories. Who knew you could get that from a Star Trek clip. Thanks for sharing.
The last four seasons of DS9 showed the best of Star Trek - and sometimes the worst. Awesome Villians, support characters and a lot of politics, religion and war and the utopia of the federation beaten down by Reality.
@@animateddepression Final Episodes never has been good in Star Trek, like the first 2-3 season of a new series. I like What you leave behind just because it dont involves time travel.
equenoxe86 I get it, the Dominion war was a pretty desperate struggle in which the Federation was on the losing side for much of it. They would have needed all the ships they could get, even if they were old ships from their reserves. Plus I'm sure they had significant refits since they first entered service. But ultimately they were cannon fodder.
+equenoxe86 The Miranda's weren't meant to fight in another major war by the late 24th century. However there were so many of them built over the years, and they proved to be reliable, flexible and easy to maintain and only needed small crews, that many ended up serving for such a long time, relegated to scientific surveys, exploring, supply ferrying, or even anti-piracy patrols instead of being retired. When the Dominion war erupted, Starfleet wasn't ready to fight another war. The newer classes like the Defiant, the Intrepid, Akira, Steamrunner and Saber classes were still either undergoing trials or only recently entered production so not many had been built. And many of those that were built were destroyed by the Borg in their second invasion of the Federation (First Contact) just a couple of months before the Dominion invaded. If this wasn't bad enough, Starfleet also recently lost several dozen ships to the brief Federation-Klingon war that was engineered by Changeling Martok. To put it bluntly, when the Dominion invaded, Starfleet was in a very bad shape. A lot of it's newest ships had been destroyed by the Borg and the Klingons had given a good beating to what was left. Now, faced with the Dominion and their Cardassian allies, Starfleet was desperate for ships, taking anything they could get their hands on. Even if it meant taking an obsolete Miranda off it's surveying duties or out of mothballs, dusting it off and gearing it up for battle.
The Excelsior Class ships mostly did OK on there to fill in while all the Nebula and Ambassador Class crews were on vacation on Risa or some such. That Akira Class should have done a bit better than it did though as - those are pretty large ships and absolutely stacked full of torpedoes - I do like how they make the Excelsior class look cool again though considering the lazy way they shot them in TNG
Yeah the Excelsior's were really a highlight of DS9. Many times they were shown to be powerful with some upgrades, certainly the backbone of the Federation fleet. Nebula and Ambassador class ships were never meant for combat though, they were meant for exploration and diplomacy so it's a good idea that StarFleet kept them away imo.
Dorjan24 that's why the Fed were getting their ass handed to them in the war before the Romulans and wormhole aliens had to come save them. also the nebula sure had teeth if it wasn't made to fight. Captain Maxwell's nebula destroyed like 4 Cardassians warships
thing most people forget is it isn't the ship that makes these guys survive a battle, it's their crew. Like that one BoP who survived the Breen weapon because they modified their warp core.
Miranda go boom every time they are on screen is such an exaggeration. I'd be more worried about being on a Bird of Prey or an Akira or Steamrunner (particularly fighting the Borg).
1.24 Anyone else notice just then, the Defiant had "PLOT ARMOR" on? These weapon platforms were mean customers, their fazers Rip straight through shields and poke massive holes in Galaxy class ships, and when the Defiant gets hit its barely scratched. Still as epic to see now as it was Jaw dropping to see this many federation/Romulan/Klingon Ships onscreen at once, on a TV Show no less!!
+The Gallifreyan Gamer plus during wartime galaxy class ships were more of heavy cover/support so they basically had more of a beating and the defiant was the most advanced ship that Starfleet created
Would have been nice to see the Flagship of the fleet with its Captain, Picard, make a cameo. Always have thought that it would have been cool to hear “engage all weapons platforms, attack squadrons breakoff as planned. Engage.” I realty wish DS9 had been given movies as well though. Such an amazing show. I remember watching this as a kid and Babylon 5, but really young, my first show was TNG. Then my Dad made me watch the originals and all Star Wars films (3 of them at that time) and became a hardcore scifi fan for life lol.
STO has you start in a miranda if you choose star fleet. your inital cruise has you fighting a borg invasion. you end up 1v1 a cube in a attempt to stall till reinforcements arrive. after you get over the inital "O mah gerrd, im in star trek fighting the borg AWESOME!!!" it turns into. "FIRE EVERYTHING!!!" for little to no effect and you start going Oh shit oh shit fuck fuck fuck. avoid.
The weapon platforms were all much smaller than the ships, but their weapons punched right through shields and destroyed ships. Maybe they should consider putting those weapons on the ships as well.
Maybe the more powerful weapons unleash deadly radiation and thus have to be restricted to automated vessels. Your choice would then be between an AI ship or an AI stationary platform. If you went with a ship, well, imagine this scene but nuking the homeworld instead.
The platforms could cheat, since the base provided the power. Instead of powering all of the platforms, the base could only transmit power to the ones under attack or about to be attacked. So there could be ~10,000 platforms, but only ~1000 could be powered at a time. However, as you destroy one platform, another is able to receive power, meaning you are under attack by 1000 full-power platforms, and those platforms change depending on how close you are to them. If the fleet moves out of range of 200 of the platforms, another group of 200 can be activated
Some of it makes no sense in context. Many of us in the 21st century aren't still THAT dumb, haha! :P. Enjoyable episode and story arc, though. DS9 was very good at the end!
Never noticed before, but the Akira that gets hit at 1:04 actually clips the nacelle of the Excelsior as it spins just before the Excelsior flies past the camera. That’s why the back half of a nacelle is missing by the time the Excelsior rolls over. Oh and the Cardassians have these weapons platforms, but if I was them I’d be throwing a few dozen Dreadnought missiles at the allied fleet too...
It kills me to see how many Excelsior Class ships were destroyed or damaged in this battle. It gave me a bit of a smile when the one flying with Defiant did those shots. ❤️
On at least two occasions (Dreadnought and this episode) the Cardassians fielded Total Invincibility Shields. One would think this technology would be used on at least some of their ships given that it's immune even to ramming, which in every other instance bypasses shields.
Dreadnought had a self-aware ai capable of scanning and adapting to energy weapons, the shield generation on the weapons platforms were more like the Death Star shield, powered by an eternal source.
Dreadnought is a dumb universe breaking episode and in this episode they were using planetary shields which should hypothetically make even a large fleet's weapons fire a non issue
@@soljafon The premise that you can field totally impenetrable shields if you have enough power is a bad precedent to set. This wasn’t the Borg or the Voth, it was a race on a technological par with the Federation. Once you introduce the tech it begs the question why every planet isn’t so defended.
@@soljafon Multiple capital ships couldn’t scratch them and even ramming, which always works in Star Trek, didn’t hurt one either. If they weren’t invulnerable they were close enough for government purposes. Plus they ignored shields with their weapons, every shot was a direct hull impact. That last is just DS9’s "explosions are pretty" special effects team but still.
I made this comment before on another video that Stafleet should consider making a ship covered in deflector dishes. They seem to do almost anything. Open portals to another dimension, like fluidic space. You can redirect warp "energy" to try to destroy Borg cubes. Seriously, you can use them to create anti-time ruptures.
STDS9. It took me a second to realize that was for Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and not Star Trek: Discovery Season 9. I know Discovery only has 2 or 3 seasons so far, that's what made me realize it was DS9.
The problem lays in how they don't seem to use shields anymore in the series. Early on there was a reason for this. But later on it simply seemed to be a forgotten issue, perhaps to speed up battles. Clearly, if the Cardasians could use shields on the base, the others should have been using their ship shields. IMHO. Any ship, no matter the size would fall fast without it's shields due to the advanced weapon technology of the era. A few like the Defiant being a notable exception as it was stated to have hull armor.
Actually, they used shields. But during the late 90s, they couldn't produce the shield effects for so many ships on screen on a TV budget. So they only used the shield effect for important elements on screen they wanted the audience to pay attention to. For the ships getting hit or destroyed, you just have to use a bit of imagination and assume their shields are there.
Gotta say there are no shields on those ships. They are obviously taking hull damage from the first shots. :) Do recall watching an interview somewhere where they said something about forgetting to switch back to using shields on the ships later on in the war. Budget might have affected that too, causing them to start with the not using the things, and to speed up battles But there are no shields on those ships in the battle. Even though the Cardassian platforms and asteroid array clearly have them.
This sequence was very ambitious for what was possible on TV budgets at the time. Animating deflector shields would've delayed the production even further, so they dropped it. I think the in-universe explanation is some form of shield-piercing particle beam or something like that.
I loved the battle sequence, but I really dislike how this battle ended. Too many times in the Dominion war did the Federation come up with some "deus ex machina" device that magically saved the day. I'm not a writer, but I would have liked to see the battle end a little different here. Maybe with more tension, and sacrifice.
Sacrifice? They were getting their asses handed to them on a platter. Without the deus ex machina that would have been a loss for the Federation Alliance. I do agree though, i would have preferred they didn't use a dues ex machina to end the battle. It could have ended with a large crippled ship, like an Excelsior or D'Dedrix warbird slamming into the moon's shield at full impulse coupled with the warp core breaching on impact, taking it down.
You just described all of Star Trek. They are always coming up with some sideways solution to the problem that magically solves the problem. Starfleet is a military force of space techno-wizards.
At this point in the show the original Defiant, the NX-74205, had been replaced by the Sao Paulo, renamed Defiant. The registry number of the "new" Defiant is somehow confusing it seems, here it says NCC-74210, the German Memory Alpha lists it as the NCC-74295 and on the English Memory Alpha it says: "This Defiant has conflicting registry numbers. The dedication plaque on the bridge gave the registry as NCC-75633 (which is, notably, the highest NCC registry number seen in Star Trek), but the plaque also contained the original name Sao Paulo (the first draft script of "The Dogs of War" also associated that registry number with the craft's original name). External CGI images seen in "The Dogs of War" and "What You Leave Behind" repeated the old registry of NX-74205 as a result of the extensive use of stock footage from earlier episodes, including "The Search, Part I", "Sacrifice of Angels", and "Tears of the Prophets". The new footage in "What You Leave Behind" continued to use NX-74205 for consistency. Memory Alpha uses the commissioning year to differentiate this ship from its predecessor." And on Wikipedia it says this: "During the planning of the invasion of Cardassia Prime some months later, a new Defiant-class starship, the USS Sao Paulo (NCC-75633), is assigned to Deep Space Nine. The Starfleet Chief of Operations grants special dispensation to rename the ship Defiant. Although the USS Sao Paulo commissioning plaque gives a registry of "NCC-75633", in all exterior shots the new ship has the "NX-74205" registry. This is because most external shots of the new vessel were reused shots of the old one, and the new CG shots subsequently used the same registry number for consistency." So they probably reused most exterior shots from the original Defiant but this one was made specifically for this scene, so they changed the exterior registry number, but changed it to something which was right either. :D
@@beepthemeep12 Yeah, the Defiant 1 doesn't get destroyed until the second battle of Chintoka, where the federation loses when the Breen join the Dominion, and the Defiant 2 shows up for the finale. This scene is from the first battle of Chintoka.
0:59 Apparently a model for the USS Galaxy was used in this shot. I believe Roddenberry once said there were originally 6 Galaxy class ships and this, as the prototype, was undoubtedly one of them. Nice touch / homage.
Even if that was true, far more had clearly been commissioned by the 6th season of DS9. There are multiple shots in "Favor the Bold" and "Sacrifice of Angels" that had more than 6 in a single shot.
That is the USS Galaxy, you see the registry on the bottom of the saucer say NCC-70637, which is Galaxy’s registry number. Survived the war too, you see Galaxy’s name and registry included in the fleet to assist the Enterprise E in Nemesis
@@toddsmittsAfter the first six, Starfleet probably saw the usefulness of the class and started making more. Then, when the Dominion War started, Utopia Plantia probably started cranking out as many as possible
Or at least have someone watching what they are targeting who can take over in case of problems. It shouldn't have worked anyway - the whole place is flooded with ships, and the turrets choose to fire on an asteroid with a fake warp signature that isn't even shooting at them? Weak
We have better AI than this now....ST writers definitely did not think much about how automation would advance. The only real AI of significant quality we see is Data, and he was created by a super genius of the time that was so ahead of everything he was essentially a wizard. In truth every computer on every ship would be as advanced as Data was, we will probably have Data level of AI within the next 100 years.
@@Jake-cm9jj Data isn't A.I. It was established that he was sentient in "Measure of a Man," And again referenced in the episode where Data makes a daughter. Can't remember the name of that episode.
@@We_Are_Borg_478 Well, that's still AI. I never said he wasn't fully sentient, of course he is and that is well established in the shows. AI can be whatever we want it to be, it is just a label we put on computer generated intelligence.
Do you happen to notice how the larger Federation ships go tumbling in only a couple of hull breach hits, but the Miranda, with half its saucer missing keeps going until its totally obliterated? lol
As much as I love Klingon ships they never cloaked when fighting in the big battles for huge surprise attacks. Imagine if in this battle Martok had 50 claimed ships attach from behind.
What got me into DS9 wasn't watching from the start and how different Sisko was from Pi-card, but I found this episode later on VHS and saw all those "Reliants" and "Excelsiors" and "Enterprises" and wondered what was that?
Yes... the ship shaking every 10-15 seconds during those scenes, the conduit overloading, those are just normal design features of Federation ships, not enemy weapons fire.
The USS _Hood_ (NCC-42296) was the Excelsior-class ship. The two Miranda-class ships are the USS _Tian An Men_ and USS _Nautilus_ , whose registries I have forgotten.
I feel like the Miranda class exists in Star Trek for the purpose of being destroyed on screen. It's the Red Shirt ship of Starfleet vessels, commanded only by TOS Red Shirts lol
We have to remember that in a huge battle all those ships were taking shots we didn't see. They just showed us the shots that penetrated the shields after said shields had been beaten down already through the course of the battle.
nah, its definitely coming from the deflector. you can see the torp launcher on the neck and the torp comes directly from the centre of the deflector dish.
@@marcusjustice6165 I always wondered how those ships survived having huge chunks blown out of them when on TNG a little scrape of the warp nacelle or a couple glancing blows to the engineering section and the warp core is ready to blow up.
0:00 Seeing Federation, Klingon, and Romulan ships side by side going into battle is so awesome! They all put their differences aside to boot the Dominion back to the Gamma Quadrant
@@marcusjustice6165 A show that follows a Romulan or Klingon crew would be Awesome. I can imagine the difference in how a Klingon Ships Crew would handle a situation differently from let's say a Starfleet's Crews Point of View. Starfleet: A ship entering the Neutral Zone looks to be up to something. Jean-Luc Picard sends out a hail with no response. 20 minutes into the show Picard finally is able to get the Ships Captain to open dialogue between the two ships. 40 minutes into the Shows Episode we see how Picard handled the situation with respect and a professional manner, a Klingon Crew on the other hand. Klingon Empire: A ship entering the Neutral Zone looks to be up to something. The Ship doesn't respond to our hails. (Commander of the Klingon Vor'cha-class Warship)FIRE!
DS9 ended horribly. Great show, but they just came up with ships numbers out of thin air. 200 lost in this battle, 700 lost in the next battle...etc. Maybe if they turned their shields on they wouldn't all die.
One thing I could never reconcile with DS9 is where did Starfleet get hundreds and hundreds of ships not to mention the crews to run to fight in the dominion war? They had a hell of a time finding 39 ships to fight the Borg cube at wolf 359.
The Wolf 359 fleet was hastily assembled within a few days from whatever ships were closest. The larger Dominion War fleets were probably assembled over several weeks or even months.
bensebastianraymond Being the nerd that I am, I looked it up. Its an Akira class starship. It was the design they used to model the Enterprise NX01 after (basically they just inverted the nacelles).
This all should have been on the big screen dammit! Damn you producers and Hollywood. Could you imagine if Star Trek had a 3 or 4 part movie like Lord of The Rings based on the Dominion and Borg?
I love how each alliance faction has their unique abilities. Romulan=good against weapon platforms Federation= support fire. Klingons= killing small craft like escorts
The Dominion don't use shields, only by important ships or here the asteroid. the federation and her allies uses shields, but the weapons from dominion penetrating the shields...thats all....you know that if you saw the series
The Dominion used shields. Weyoun told Odo that the Jem'hadar fighters' dorsal shields were weakest. Giving them the attack advantage from their rear top. It was mentioned in the episode with the defective weyoun.
Why the hell is Kiera commanding the Defiant? Worf is the ranking starfleet officer and she has no starship experiance. She should never been in command
How could that generator/master controller have such a powerful shield that multiple blasts couldn't even scratch its shields but the weapon platforms cut through it like butter? Even when the Federation was still adapting to phased poloron beams and the like they were still able to inflict significant damage.
"im afraid the weapon platforms will be quite..operational...when your friends arrive"
“Your fleet is lost...and your friends will not survive.”
"Take your weapon, strike me down with all your hatred."
It is illogical to press against an enemy with an inefficient amount of forces if our main goal is to overwhelm them
Good goood.
Well played, sir. Well played indeed.
These battle sequences still look very good some 17- 18 years later. Love them
That's because they use models and then they add in some CGI for the energy weapons and fire damage. Models are real things, so they will always look more real than CGI, its why in the new star wars movies they went back to using practical effects and using models for the ships.
@@Jake-cm9jj Actually, all the ships in this space battle are CGI (models). There are no practical effects. It explains why ships (Galaxy class, Excelsior class) look different than what we were used to. They started using CGI first for the 6x06 episode Sacrifice of Angels as motion control shooting models was not feasible. Motion control required shooting each ship (each type) individually and since there are a huge variety of ships types, it would have required too much time. CGI was the cheaper alternative. My sources: memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/CGI and memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sacrifice_of_Angels_(episode).
@@MaartensTravels Impressive, finally someone who uses sources. well done.
I miss Star trek.
@@MaartensTravels You're a liar, it was all stop action photography with really accurate clay models.... (grin)
Something awesome about seeing starfleet, Klingon, and romulan ships fighting together just makes these episodes so awesome
@Leo Peridot Wasn't the Prime Directive created because of Captain Kirk and as a warning to other Captains and their crews?
They waaaaaaaaaar is pregnant!
@your truly martok would have made an excellent robert baratheon
once they were enemies now allies rallied against a bigger foe. that's what the federation is about.
@@mrizwan7566 He was Robert Baratheon before there was such a character.
"The weapon's platforms are powering up!"
"SEND IN THE MIRANDA SHIELD! We'll be right behind them"
It seems to be what they were designed for - the Miranda class at 01:19 soaked up (as best I could count) twelve direct hits, compared to the (I believe) Excelsior class which could only handle ONE or the Akira (which should be so much more powerful it's almost laughable) which managed to tank six. The Galaxy class near the start didn't seem to be doing half as well either, but it's probably not fair to count it since you don't see it get obliterated, just damaged.
@@aecides3203 very perceptive.
@@aecides3203plus it was toast after the first couple hits. probably the platforms were trying to hit the bigger starships in the distance. Glory looks like got it right:-)
@@aecides3203 Well the Miranda class was almost like the constitution class which was made to take a pounding in battle.
Miranda class ships were remote controlled.
2:59 I love the attention to detail here. The first phaser fire from the Excelsior class is absorbed by the drone's shields, then as the drone shuts down, the phaser cuts right through.
Surprised to see shields reappear as a thing in DS9 for this episode only and for the weapons platforms only. All other ships remains completely without shields.
@@AndrewGiammattei I'm not sure if this is ever explained, but my head cannon explanation is that the Dominion used phased polaron weapons which pretty much cut through shields. I think the shields are still functioning, they just aren't as effective. Maybe they also change their shield projection from a bubble to be closer to the hull to help mitigate that advantage.
@@AndrewGiammattei Maybe it was too much for the rendering farms at the time to let all those shields glooming.
This looks so much better than fights in Discovery. I love phaser effects!
Discovery is just a pile of 💩
and this is why the Klingons take so many battle losses in combat they like to run in guns firing kicking ass and their ships take a beating
When you get assigned to a Miranda-class ship, you get your will updated free of charge.
But lose your insurance policy.
That's because those ships are so old and outclassed by DS9 time frame, the only reason they're there is the Feds are so desperate against the Dominion.
They're literally cannon fodder. It's terrible.
At least have the computers auto pilot the ships or something!
Well the good news is at this point all the ships were skeleton crews (last minute) but yeah if I was assigned to Miranda would rather take my chances with a court Marshall lol.
honestly I think miranda's are usually used as trainee ships or low stress situations most of the time and were rushed into combat formations
I love the Excelsior class! Even 80 years after its initial design, the ships are still going strong.
It’s a gorgeous and timeless design. When it was made for ST:III the model maker set out to “remake the Enterprise as if it were designed in Japan.”
Excelsior mafia
Picard: Mr Crusher, your transfer to the Miranda is ready.
Wesley: Damn, you really hate my ass.
Shut up Wesley
Major Kira: You too, Nog.
In an alternate timeline, Wesley became captain of the Enterprise, the youngest ever. Picard became HIS first officer. It was a short glimpse, but a very cool one.
You forgot to add ...............
EVERYONE on the Bridge: Shut up Wesley.
I'm sure I saw all those Miranda-class starships wearing massive red shirts.
Miranda class
Nah, the Klingon Birds of Prey took them all already
Atleast they weren't sacrificed to save the oldest remaining Battlestar......
Just be glad they weren't the obirth class ships at wolf 359.
At least they're not the Olympic class
To all those people talking about how unlucky the Mirandas are, I'd point out that we only saw ONE Mirada (the USS ShirKahr, named for a Vulcan city) get wrecked, but we also saw an Excelsior (the USS Valley Forge) and an unnamed Akira getting wrecked as well.
Conversely, we saw two Mirandas (the USS Nautilus and USS Tian An Men) fly right into the lion's den along side the Defiant and survive.
It is funny how the Miranda was still in service but the Constitution was not. Maybe people should give that a thought.
It's just cause that's how cruiser classes are. The constitution was a deep space explorer with state-of-the-art technology for the time. Because everything is state of the art and new and 20-30 years down the line, the space frame just won't be able to handle the load of what's new at the time. So you'd just need a new class designed for your new ship of the line. Galaxy class ships as beautiful and elegant as they are gradually being fazed out in favour of the Ross-class. Miranda class ships filled a niche that just didn't call for constant innovation. Though it is being replaced with the Centaur class of starships. Even the other outlier Excelsior class is getting replaced by the Excelsior II class which is just a testament to how good that starship design is. Literally smacked a 2 at the end of the name and called it a day cause no one's got shit on the Excelsior. I kind of rambled but Starfleet ship designs just get me going. @wolf6747
@@phelanwolf6747Miranda class was a multi-purpose modular starship, essentially the swiss army knife of ships, nothing really fit that role after it, but with the constitution class line (of which there was a training ship of that class in service at wolf 359, so it may still have a few of it's line around) it was outclassed by the Excelsior, Ambassador and Galaxy class line, the Excelsior being the only other ship to last as long as it did due to having such a capable spaceframe.
There was also a Galaxy class that got holes blown through it.
@@adambrown6669 That was the prototype ship, the USS Galaxy, but not a fatal hit.
Shields won`t be installed until Tuesday 😄
ps.:
Admiral: "Congratulations Ensign, you gratuaded and finished Starfleet Academy. Here is your new red uniform and you`ll be asigned to the U.S.S. Suicide, a Miranda Class Star Ship".
Me: "a Red Shirt and a Miranda Class Starship.. heck no. Here is my resignation, good bye"
Admiral: "You misunderstand, Ensign. That word, 'suicide,' it's Vulcan, not English. It doesn't mean the same thing."
Ensign: "Oh, OK, sir. What does it mean?"
Admiral: "It means 'To die in the vacuum of space.'"
More like a Suicide Class Star Ship
Except the Miranda-class _is_ the first ship modern Starfleet captains get in _Star Trek Online_ . In the year 2409.
First you fight some Klingon, then the Borg.
Wait! We forgot to introdce you to your weapons officer! He reschooled, was in the military, ground forces, but great commendations!!!
So ... ?
Imperial Stormtrooper command and ... hey wait!!!
Exactly. If I remember right Sisko was assigned to a Miranda class until it went down at wolf 359... At which point he was reassigned to DS9.
Brutal bridge hit on that D'Deridex
Yup. Better hope those things have battle bridges...
Vorcha: "Hold my blood wine."
Miranda: "No you hold my ... OH GOD!"
Yeah I was thinking that the d’deridex is not all it’s cracked up to be if its primary shields are penetrated like that
The bridge on the D'Deridex isn't in the upper ventral area, it's lower down.That hit didn't take it out.
@@LN997-i8x actually, it was hit directly behind the bridge…the blasts severed the “head” of the ship where the bridge is located
3:03
Love that Galaxy murdering the shit out of that weapons platform.
The Galaxy really got her day in the sun on DS9 (finally) after 7 years of getting her shit tucked in by Romulans, Tamarians, fucking Ferengi, Space babies, extinct empire outposts, millennia-old booby traps, and finally, ignominiously, by 2 Klingon hags in a hundred year old rust bucket.
the 2 klingon hags...that was only because they got to see the layout of the ship and hit every important thing they could before they were killed...oh and plot called for the D to go down
@@DorkKnight99
Tell that to the Odyssey
@@SuperGamefreak18 yeah, the galaxy class should be able to wipe the floor with a bird of prey with just its saucer section on auxiliary power. that was such a terrible movie
@@enshk79 honestly the "battle" in generations was fine as it still took an unshielded shot to destroy said old bird of prey but because of the movies antagonist the duras sisters were allowed free shots in a battle that where both were at 100% and the shield frequency wasnt compromised then yeah if anything that battle was the embarrassment that resulted in a reality check
Phasers, explosions, and no regard for whether sound carries in space or not... EXACTLY MY KIND OF STUFF!
Ohhhhh god how do you cope as a Sci-Fi fan get that Y wing bomber picture down now you heathen...
Jon Fothergill the oxygen in the ships
Jon Fothergill No, because the fire you see is the plasma leaking from broken conduits.
Its A MOVIIIE trust me if u saw real combat (even real life ones in afghanistan let alone realistic space battles) youll be bored outta your fucking mind.
Shut your dumbass mouth Star Wars has the same error
"Captain, the battle is about to start."
"Okay, power up Weapons."
"What about the shields?"
"Nah, it wont be so tough."
yeah the shields seemed not to exist, so I was wondering what TF were they firing that ignored shields. even its power source shield didn't seem to work against them, they never explained it. would of been nice. Guess it was something the dominion gave them to penetrate shields. Like they did the galaxy class destroyed when they first met the jem hadar.
@@cranbers
Phased polaron beam was the polaron particle discharge of the extremely powerful ship-mounted directed energy weapon used by Dominion starships in the late 24th century. Jem'Hadar fighters were equipped with a phased polaron beam emitter as their primary offensive weapon.
During the early years of hostilities, from 2370 onward, phased polaron beam weaponry gave Dominion ships a decisive tactical advantage against Alpha Quadrant forces. The beam was capable of penetrating the deflector shields used by Federation, Romulan, and Cardassian starships, as if the ships weren't shielded at all. (DS9: "The Jem'Hadar", "The Die is Cast") The ablative armor of the USS Defiant proved to be an effective defense against phased polaron beams, allowing the Defiant to survive several direct hits in battle. (DS9: "The Search, Part I")
@@obi-wankenobi573 Thanks for clarifying I forgot about the phased polaron beam that they introduced when the odyssey was destroy when they first met the jem hadar, but they did say that the federation adapter their shields to block it now (remember that scene where they were attacking ds9 and Dukot and weyoun was shocked the stations shields are holding and they were surprised federation could block their weapons now). Guess this was some new and improved version of that, even the "power source" of the weapon platforms didn't even block it. You did see it in a few scenes where the Defiant took direct hits and it was just fire coming off of it, guess that was the abladive armor not it bouncing off the shields. Granted they did use that same effect throughout a lot of the show.
I believe it was because of budget and clarity reasons. To render shields on every single ship required more time, more money and with the sheer number of ships being shot at you'd see nothing but shield effects. That's why you only saw shields on the weapon platforms, asteroid and nothing else.
Notice how in large ship vs ship battles, regardless as to what ship or side it was, shields weren't being rendered.
@@Aldaris1234567 That's a good point but when you see ships getting hit and destroyed with one hit and no sign shields were there, it causes questions from us Trek fans right.
I loved how they added the Galaxy class battle ships they are very cool
Galaxy class starships aren't battleships, they are exploration cruisers.
@@purestrain3099 But in this context, they're outfitted for war and are very capable.
@@TornadoHound some of them are, some were refit and some like the oddesy got destroyed before that could even happen. Strictly speaking they are long range heavy explorers
@@purestrain3099 Going by the Starfleet /Klingon Academy ship type definitions, the Galaxy class is heavy battlecrusier as she is heavily armed with conventional weapons.
@@purestrain3099 actually most of them you see in the Dominion War were partly constructed explorers that were quickly built to operational standards without unnecessary interior modules such as labs etc, so you are both right.
0:25
Klingon weapons officer: Q'apla! I've managed to score a direct hit on that Jem'Hadar ship!
(Jem'Hadar ship crashes into an attack cruiser).
Klingon weapon officer: Uhhhh...
Welcome to sto'vo'khor !!!
The famous/infamous kamikaze tactic. 'Cause, if you're going down anyway, might as well bring the enemy with you. XD
MrDibara there were also trained Kamikaze pilots with planes full of explosives specialised to take out massive dreadnoughts and carriers so what the jem'hadar were doing here makes sense on the vor'cha cruisers but I didn't get why you should ram a bird of prey that is even weaker than your own ship
LOL
Haha! Oops!
The Romulan Wabirds are awesome. Especially the D'Deridex cruiser
The D'Deridex was the ONLY ship being shown in these battles! :'(
That's my only real gripe with the Romulans in this show, they only ever had the one kind of starship.
_Would've been nice to see one or two other types of ship appearing, just for a little more diversity._
Though obviously not the horrendous designs at the end of "Picard Season 1", I'm talking about designs more similar to the Norexan-Class (the Valdore from "ST Nemesis") or the Birds of Prey we saw in "Enterprise".
I’ve always assumed the CGI for the Steamrunner and Saber class ships weren’t as well rendered, as you only ever see them small in the background. Compared to the more up close detailed shots we get of the Galaxy, Excelsior, Miranda and Akira classes
that is exactly why.
Standard packet when assigned to Miranda Class ship . Item 1 orders posting you to your new ship .Item 2 Form to update will . Item 3 Notice to family that you have been assigned to a Miranda instructing them to look for the death notice of their loved one . Item 4 Token for one free evening at the Naughty Nebula (just to make sure no one dies a virgin .... even if it is Star Trek) Located just across the Quad from the Freshman billets .
You know this crew truly represents what a Starfleet crew should look like. You five different species as part of the command crew plus a non-human commanding. I say any new show set in this era needs to follow this example.
Wow those effects still look as great as I remember. I actually taped this and used to watch it in slo-mo to see all the details. Good times and pretty good memories. Who knew you could get that from a Star Trek clip. Thanks for sharing.
The last four seasons of DS9 showed the best of Star Trek - and sometimes the worst. Awesome Villians, support characters and a lot of politics, religion and war and the utopia of the federation beaten down by Reality.
Except for the last episode which was complete shit. And any episode featuring Vic's.
@@animateddepression Final Episodes never has been good in Star Trek, like the first 2-3 season of a new series. I like What you leave behind just because it dont involves time travel.
@@animateddepression i think you confused DS9 with enterprise. What You Leave Behind was really good
I would have hated to be aboard one of those Miranda class ships.
equenoxe86 I get it, the Dominion war was a pretty desperate struggle in which the Federation was on the losing side for much of it. They would have needed all the ships they could get, even if they were old ships from their reserves. Plus I'm sure they had significant refits since they first entered service. But ultimately they were cannon fodder.
+equenoxe86 The Miranda's weren't meant to fight in another major war by the late 24th century. However there were so many of them built over the years, and they proved to be reliable, flexible and easy to maintain and only needed small crews, that many ended up serving for such a long time, relegated to scientific surveys, exploring, supply ferrying, or even anti-piracy patrols instead of being retired.
When the Dominion war erupted, Starfleet wasn't ready to fight another war. The newer classes like the Defiant, the Intrepid, Akira, Steamrunner and Saber classes were still either undergoing trials or only recently entered production so not many had been built. And many of those that were built were destroyed by the Borg in their second invasion of the Federation (First Contact) just a couple of months before the Dominion invaded. If this wasn't bad enough, Starfleet also recently lost several dozen ships to the brief Federation-Klingon war that was engineered by Changeling Martok.
To put it bluntly, when the Dominion invaded, Starfleet was in a very bad shape. A lot of it's newest ships had been destroyed by the Borg and the Klingons had given a good beating to what was left. Now, faced with the Dominion and their Cardassian allies, Starfleet was desperate for ships, taking anything they could get their hands on. Even if it meant taking an obsolete Miranda off it's surveying duties or out of mothballs, dusting it off and gearing it up for battle.
The Excelsior Class ships mostly did OK on there to fill in while all the Nebula and Ambassador Class crews were on vacation on Risa or some such.
That Akira Class should have done a bit better than it did though as - those are pretty large ships and absolutely stacked full of torpedoes - I do like how they make the Excelsior class look cool again though considering the lazy way they shot them in TNG
Yeah the Excelsior's were really a highlight of DS9. Many times they were shown to be powerful with some upgrades, certainly the backbone of the Federation fleet. Nebula and Ambassador class ships were never meant for combat though, they were meant for exploration and diplomacy so it's a good idea that StarFleet kept them away imo.
Dorjan24 that's why the Fed were getting their ass handed to them in the war before the Romulans and wormhole aliens had to come save them. also the nebula sure had teeth if it wasn't made to fight. Captain Maxwell's nebula destroyed like 4 Cardassians warships
Gotta love that one single Chad Miranda class ship at 2:24 that actually survived the battle
thing most people forget is it isn't the ship that makes these guys survive a battle, it's their crew. Like that one BoP who survived the Breen weapon because they modified their warp core.
And all without plot armor? They must be the strongest ship and best crew in all of Starfleet!
Actually 2 survived. According to the people who worked on the CG for this episode, they were the USS Nautilus and the USS Tian An Men.
They survived by hanging way back from the fighting, lol.
Miranda go boom every time they are on screen is such an exaggeration. I'd be more worried about being on a Bird of Prey or an Akira or Steamrunner (particularly fighting the Borg).
1.24 Anyone else notice just then, the Defiant had "PLOT ARMOR" on?
These weapon platforms were mean customers, their fazers Rip straight through shields and poke massive holes in Galaxy class ships, and when the Defiant gets hit its barely scratched.
Still as epic to see now as it was Jaw dropping to see this many federation/Romulan/Klingon Ships onscreen at once, on a TV Show no less!!
The bigger ships probably took quite a beating beforehand. At least that's my explanation. Still, the Defiant is a rough-n-tough ship.
well the galaxy class ships are bigger and slower which means they're easy targets while the defiant is fast and hard to hit so it makes perfect sence
+The Gallifreyan Gamer plus during wartime galaxy class ships were more of heavy cover/support so they basically had more of a beating and the defiant was the most advanced ship that Starfleet created
+Sebastian Macias exactly
The defiant was the only ship to have ablative hull armour
Would have been nice to see the Flagship of the fleet with its Captain, Picard, make a cameo. Always have thought that it would have been cool to hear “engage all weapons platforms, attack squadrons breakoff as planned. Engage.” I realty wish DS9 had been given movies as well though. Such an amazing show. I remember watching this as a kid and Babylon 5, but really young, my first show was TNG. Then my Dad made me watch the originals and all Star Wars films (3 of them at that time) and became a hardcore scifi fan for life lol.
The more I watch these starship battles, the more I see starships with their own individual sense of personality.
play star trek bridge commander and you'll be able to sympathise hard with those destoyred akira and miranda class ships
STO has you start in a miranda if you choose star fleet. your inital cruise has you fighting a borg invasion. you end up 1v1 a cube in a attempt to stall till reinforcements arrive. after you get over the inital "O mah gerrd, im in star trek fighting the borg AWESOME!!!" it turns into. "FIRE EVERYTHING!!!" for little to no effect and you start going Oh shit oh shit fuck fuck fuck. avoid.
Tom Ridley why stop at that? Activate the self destruct and ram the cube XD
Tom Ridley The miranda for sure, but the akira? For an escort class it's quite durable.
The Akira was a first or second Gen anti born ship
In 2019, I still remember and adore my time spent with modded Bridge Commander. Must check to see if it is still a thing.
Notice how Kira agrees to the plan by NODDING.
How does Miles know she's agreed, when he has his back to her?
What the fuck
@@HamanKarn567 ik i cant even begin to decribe what ive seen
He heard the jingle of her gigantic ear ring.
Because, in the script, she nodded. Do not you know anything? :)
what the fuck have i just witnessed
Some of the best space battles Star Trek ever has to offer. Present day included
Present day very included, haha
It is a travesty that we might never get an official HD remaster of this show.
Seriously.
There are a few fan-remastered clips floating around on TH-cam.
The weapon platforms were all much smaller than the ships, but their weapons punched right through shields and destroyed ships. Maybe they should consider putting those weapons on the ships as well.
Maybe the more powerful weapons unleash deadly radiation and thus have to be restricted to automated vessels. Your choice would then be between an AI ship or an AI stationary platform. If you went with a ship, well, imagine this scene but nuking the homeworld instead.
The platforms could cheat, since the base provided the power. Instead of powering all of the platforms, the base could only transmit power to the ones under attack or about to be attacked. So there could be ~10,000 platforms, but only ~1000 could be powered at a time. However, as you destroy one platform, another is able to receive power, meaning you are under attack by 1000 full-power platforms, and those platforms change depending on how close you are to them. If the fleet moves out of range of 200 of the platforms, another group of 200 can be activated
Platforms don't need warp drives, antimatter generators, or life support. Saves a lot of space
Never let it be said that there was ever a battle so intense that it couldn't be interrupted by a good healthy dose of trekno-babble.
Some of it makes no sense in context. Many of us in the 21st century aren't still THAT dumb, haha! :P. Enjoyable episode and story arc, though. DS9 was very good at the end!
I like how an Excelsior and two Mirandas are taking part in the assault on the Asteroid, getting a measure of revenge for their lost Sister-Ships.
Based on scenes like this, plus things like Dreadnaught in Voyager, it makes me think that the Cardassians are the best weapons designers.
If the Cardassians had the resources of the Federation they would rule the quadrant but they don't.
Never noticed before, but the Akira that gets hit at 1:04 actually clips the nacelle of the Excelsior as it spins just before the Excelsior flies past the camera. That’s why the back half of a nacelle is missing by the time the Excelsior rolls over.
Oh and the Cardassians have these weapons platforms, but if I was them I’d be throwing a few dozen Dreadnought missiles at the allied fleet too...
I really miss this type of Trek!
Almost 23 years later and these ships and battle sequences look much better than anything churned out by Star Trek: Discovery.
Too bad the fleet didn't just destroy all of the platforms in one quick massive attack...before they all "woke up"
They were in two layers one Near Chintoka Prime and another near the space between 2 and the Planet and fleet...
It kills me to see how many Excelsior Class ships were destroyed or damaged in this battle. It gave me a bit of a smile when the one flying with Defiant did those shots. ❤️
It's amazing how inconsistent the damage is. One ship is destroyed with 1 phaser blast, another takes 3 torpedos and is barely damaged.
I think that's because it's an older ship? Ships have structural integrity fields and armor and presumably on older ships they're a lot less effective
On at least two occasions (Dreadnought and this episode) the Cardassians fielded Total Invincibility Shields. One would think this technology would be used on at least some of their ships given that it's immune even to ramming, which in every other instance bypasses shields.
Dreadnought had a self-aware ai capable of scanning and adapting to energy weapons, the shield generation on the weapons platforms were more like the Death Star shield, powered by an eternal source.
Dreadnought is a dumb universe breaking episode and in this episode they were using planetary shields which should hypothetically make even a large fleet's weapons fire a non issue
@@soljafon The premise that you can field totally impenetrable shields if you have enough power is a bad precedent to set. This wasn’t the Borg or the Voth, it was a race on a technological par with the Federation. Once you introduce the tech it begs the question why every planet isn’t so defended.
@@WUZLE I don't think they're impenetrable, just significantly stronger.
@@soljafon Multiple capital ships couldn’t scratch them and even ramming, which always works in Star Trek, didn’t hurt one either. If they weren’t invulnerable they were close enough for government purposes. Plus they ignored shields with their weapons, every shot was a direct hull impact. That last is just DS9’s "explosions are pretty" special effects team but still.
I made this comment before on another video that Stafleet should consider making a ship covered in deflector dishes. They seem to do almost anything. Open portals to another dimension, like fluidic space. You can redirect warp "energy" to try to destroy Borg cubes. Seriously, you can use them to create anti-time ruptures.
Your fleet is lost...and your friends on the moon will not survive.
STDS9. It took me a second to realize that was for Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and not Star Trek: Discovery Season 9. I know Discovery only has 2 or 3 seasons so far, that's what made me realize it was DS9.
Discovery is not trek!
@@dmclegg66 I couldn't agree more!
These huge ships were too easily destroyed.
The problem lays in how they don't seem to use shields anymore in the series. Early on there was a reason for this. But later on it simply seemed to be a forgotten issue, perhaps to speed up battles. Clearly, if the Cardasians could use shields on the base, the others should have been using their ship shields. IMHO. Any ship, no matter the size would fall fast without it's shields due to the advanced weapon technology of the era. A few like the Defiant being a notable exception as it was stated to have hull armor.
Actually, they used shields. But during the late 90s, they couldn't produce the shield effects for so many ships on screen on a TV budget. So they only used the shield effect for important elements on screen they wanted the audience to pay attention to. For the ships getting hit or destroyed, you just have to use a bit of imagination and assume their shields are there.
Gotta say there are no shields on those ships. They are obviously taking hull damage from the first shots. :) Do recall watching an interview somewhere where they said something about forgetting to switch back to using shields on the ships later on in the war. Budget might have affected that too, causing them to start with the not using the things, and to speed up battles But there are no shields on those ships in the battle. Even though the Cardassian platforms and asteroid array clearly have them.
Shields are only for key cast members!
Still a lousy excuse. It just flies in the face of every shred of common sense not to go into battle without shields.
I think all those ships forgot to put up their shields.
This sequence was very ambitious for what was possible on TV budgets at the time. Animating deflector shields would've delayed the production even further, so they dropped it. I think the in-universe explanation is some form of shield-piercing particle beam or something like that.
@@houstonhelicoptertours1006 or we just pretend the shields were there but the Cardassian platforms had enough power to burst right through them.
"Scotty! Where are my shields?!" "I canne do it Cap'n! I don't have the power!"
**heavy Scottish accent** I‘m giving her all I can get Captain, but you’re expecting a bloody miracle!
😂👍
@@Das_Kaenguru O'Brien is the Scotty of the 24th century. He has a solution for pretty much everything.
I loved the battle sequence, but I really dislike how this battle ended. Too many times in the Dominion war did the Federation come up with some "deus ex machina" device that magically saved the day. I'm not a writer, but I would have liked to see the battle end a little different here. Maybe with more tension, and sacrifice.
Zerg Rush for da Win! :/
Sacrifice? They were getting their asses handed to them on a platter. Without the deus ex machina that would have been a loss for the Federation Alliance. I do agree though, i would have preferred they didn't use a dues ex machina to end the battle. It could have ended with a large crippled ship, like an Excelsior or D'Dedrix warbird slamming into the moon's shield at full impulse coupled with the warp core breaching on impact, taking it down.
You just described all of Star Trek. They are always coming up with some sideways solution to the problem that magically solves the problem. Starfleet is a military force of space techno-wizards.
Considering Jadzia dies on this episode,we had enough of a sacrifice for 48 minutes
Back when Star Trek was good.
Three of the greatest powers in Star Trek fighting together, and not a one commander or captain thinks of raising shields...
The dominion brought weapons that aren't stoppable by most kinds of shields. The cardassians will have had access.
@@haydenravenscroft1803 At that point in the story the Federation had long adapted their shields to Dominion weaponry.
At 1:37 you can see the inscription "NCC 74210" not "NX 74205" on the Defiant
At this point in the show the original Defiant, the NX-74205, had been replaced by the Sao Paulo, renamed Defiant. The registry number of the "new" Defiant is somehow confusing it seems, here it says NCC-74210, the German Memory Alpha lists it as the NCC-74295 and on the English Memory Alpha it says:
"This Defiant has conflicting registry numbers. The dedication plaque on the bridge gave the registry as NCC-75633 (which is, notably, the highest NCC registry number seen in Star Trek), but the plaque also contained the original name Sao Paulo (the first draft script of "The Dogs of War" also associated that registry number with the craft's original name). External CGI images seen in "The Dogs of War" and "What You Leave Behind" repeated the old registry of NX-74205 as a result of the extensive use of stock footage from earlier episodes, including "The Search, Part I", "Sacrifice of Angels", and "Tears of the Prophets". The new footage in "What You Leave Behind" continued to use NX-74205 for consistency. Memory Alpha uses the commissioning year to differentiate this ship from its predecessor."
And on Wikipedia it says this:
"During the planning of the invasion of Cardassia Prime some months later, a new Defiant-class starship, the USS Sao Paulo (NCC-75633), is assigned to Deep Space Nine. The Starfleet Chief of Operations grants special dispensation to rename the ship Defiant. Although the USS Sao Paulo commissioning plaque gives a registry of "NCC-75633", in all exterior shots the new ship has the "NX-74205" registry. This is because most external shots of the new vessel were reused shots of the old one, and the new CG shots subsequently used the same registry number for consistency."
So they probably reused most exterior shots from the original Defiant but this one was made specifically for this scene, so they changed the exterior registry number, but changed it to something which was right either. :D
@@beep5514 nope this is 6x(whatever the final episode was) she was still nx 74205, just a cgi blunder
@@beepthemeep12 Yeah, the Defiant 1 doesn't get destroyed until the second battle of Chintoka, where the federation loses when the Breen join the Dominion, and the Defiant 2 shows up for the finale. This scene is from the first battle of Chintoka.
@@beep5514absolutely bs. Sao Paolo didn't exist until s7e24
0:59 Apparently a model for the USS Galaxy was used in this shot. I believe Roddenberry once said there were originally 6 Galaxy class ships and this, as the prototype, was undoubtedly one of them. Nice touch / homage.
Even if that was true, far more had clearly been commissioned by the 6th season of DS9. There are multiple shots in "Favor the Bold" and "Sacrifice of Angels" that had more than 6 in a single shot.
That is the USS Galaxy, you see the registry on the bottom of the saucer say NCC-70637, which is Galaxy’s registry number. Survived the war too, you see Galaxy’s name and registry included in the fleet to assist the Enterprise E in Nemesis
@@toddsmittsAfter the first six, Starfleet probably saw the usefulness of the class and started making more. Then, when the Dominion War started, Utopia Plantia probably started cranking out as many as possible
When you see the Akira class ship go down.
LOOK AT HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOY
this is exactly why you don't automate your weapons platform
Or at least have someone watching what they are targeting who can take over in case of problems. It shouldn't have worked anyway - the whole place is flooded with ships, and the turrets choose to fire on an asteroid with a fake warp signature that isn't even shooting at them? Weak
We have better AI than this now....ST writers definitely did not think much about how automation would advance. The only real AI of significant quality we see is Data, and he was created by a super genius of the time that was so ahead of everything he was essentially a wizard.
In truth every computer on every ship would be as advanced as Data was, we will probably have Data level of AI within the next 100 years.
@@Jake-cm9jj Data isn't A.I.
It was established that he was sentient in "Measure of a Man,"
And again referenced in the episode where Data makes a daughter. Can't remember the name of that episode.
@@We_Are_Borg_478 Well, that's still AI. I never said he wasn't fully sentient, of course he is and that is well established in the shows. AI can be whatever we want it to be, it is just a label we put on computer generated intelligence.
@@Jake-cm9jj Is that kind of like "my truth" in the #metoo era?
Do you happen to notice how the larger Federation ships go tumbling in only a couple of hull breach hits, but the Miranda, with half its saucer missing keeps going until its totally obliterated? lol
As much as I love Klingon ships they never cloaked when fighting in the big battles for huge surprise attacks. Imagine if in this battle Martok had 50 claimed ships attach from behind.
What got me into DS9 wasn't watching from the start and how different Sisko was from Pi-card, but I found this episode later on VHS and saw all those "Reliants" and
"Excelsiors" and "Enterprises" and wondered what was that?
why didn't the crew just keep talking, seeing as the were never hit by weapons fire during their conversation, and just leave the system.
lmao
LOL good one
"Acoustic interference" was interrupting the enemy weapon's targeting array. Or something.
Yes... the ship shaking every 10-15 seconds during those scenes, the conduit overloading, those are just normal design features of Federation ships, not enemy weapons fire.
Just realized that she just nodded. If no one was watching Kira, they wouldn't know that she gave the go ahead for that idea. :P
How ironic a excelsior and 2 Miranda survived? They were probably the oldest ships in service at the time.
The USS _Hood_ (NCC-42296) was the Excelsior-class ship. The two Miranda-class ships are the USS _Tian An Men_ and USS _Nautilus_ , whose registries I have forgotten.
@@pozgaming4665 I wish i have read your comment before i name my new T6 Fleet Excelsior and Miranda :/
@@carnage2681 What'd you name them?
@@pozgaming4665 Majestic & Valley Forge, for the fallen heroes
@@carnage2681 Huh. My Excelsior-class ship is Valley Forge, NCC-43305.
I'm always amazed on how much dialogue they're able to say calmly while kind of shaking when they're "under attack'' lol
Military not like Discovery
i really want the soundtrack to this episode's fight
Ah, the deflector dish/array: the deus ex machina of Trek.
I feel like the Miranda class exists in Star Trek for the purpose of being destroyed on screen. It's the Red Shirt ship of Starfleet vessels, commanded only by TOS Red Shirts lol
Yeah, true
Only one Miranda was seen being destroyed, compared to other ships. Two Akira's and Two Excelsior's. Remember.
@1:10 When you're heading out with a Tier-4 ship thinking it's awesome.
Space must be really confined if they have go through that defense grid.
Martin Hermann haven't you noticed how the enterprise is often surrounded by three vessels and unable to escape? Space is very confined
The goal was to occupy the planet. They had to destroy the turrets.
Its amazing.laughable how quickly ships were destroyed in DS9 near the end.
We have to remember that in a huge battle all those ships were taking shots we didn't see. They just showed us the shots that penetrated the shields after said shields had been beaten down already through the course of the battle.
never noticed at 3:04 that galaxy class is firing torpedoes out of its deflector dish.
it musta been mighty pissed off
Torpedo Bays Are A Little Above The Deflector Dish Gives The Appearance Of Them Coming Out Of The Dish
nah, its definitely coming from the deflector. you can see the torp launcher on the neck and the torp comes directly from the centre of the deflector dish.
Nice sabre class cameo though
@@marcusjustice6165 I always wondered how those ships survived having huge chunks blown out of them when on TNG a little scrape of the warp nacelle or a couple glancing blows to the engineering section and the warp core is ready to blow up.
@@Jarsia Geordi was a terrible engineer, lol.
02:24 Excelsior-class: Nope...too hot, im outta here
Bird of Prey: Aarrgh!
Miranda-class: Hey, wtf?! dont leave us!
O'Brien deserves a Medal 🎖
Garak too
Wow, Do any of these Ships have Shields? lol
For some reason the Jim'Hadar ships reminds me of a tick.
Andrew Hogan: roger that.
0:00 Seeing Federation, Klingon, and Romulan ships side by side going into battle is so awesome! They all put their differences aside to boot the Dominion back to the Gamma Quadrant
Garak, tailor to fighting battle participate
Garak, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
nah, he just picked up a lot while hamming pants XD
The Galaxy class looked to beautiful and amazing during the Dominion war and it packed a punch as well.
It has to be said that, "Do it!", doesn't sound anywhere near as good as, "Make it so!"
I'm gonna have to marathon DS9 now that it's on Canadian Netflix. Haven't seen most of it in forever.
Man, I love those Miranda ships.
I would've loved to see what Klingon Defense Forces ground troops and commandos look like and what armor they're wearing.
00:08 TIE fighter? xD
Imagine Kirk seeing his two greatest adversaries going to war alongside the Federation in one unified fleet.
#600 BABY WHOOOO!
The Next Star Trek show should follow a Romulan Crew.
The TNG episode Face of The Enemy gave a small glimpse of A Romulan Crew.
@@marcusjustice6165
A show that follows a Romulan or Klingon crew would be Awesome. I can imagine the difference in how a Klingon Ships Crew would handle a situation differently from let's say a Starfleet's Crews Point of View.
Starfleet: A ship entering the Neutral Zone looks to be up to something. Jean-Luc Picard sends out a hail with no response. 20 minutes into the show Picard finally is able to get the Ships Captain to open dialogue between the two ships. 40 minutes into the Shows Episode we see how Picard handled the situation with respect and a professional manner, a Klingon Crew on the other hand.
Klingon Empire:
A ship entering the Neutral Zone looks to be up to something.
The Ship doesn't respond to our hails.
(Commander of the Klingon Vor'cha-class Warship)FIRE!
The Romulan and Klingon ships could have surrounded that rock under cloak...uncloak at the same time and fired at once.
Why would they do that when they can bunch up together dangerously close to make sure no stray shot from enemy could possible miss?
1:19- That was just overkill right there lol
O’Brien: Sir I have an idea.
Kera: -I thought you might.
DS9 ended horribly. Great show, but they just came up with ships numbers out of thin air. 200 lost in this battle, 700 lost in the next battle...etc. Maybe if they turned their shields on they wouldn't all die.
That, or stop with the explosives that they installed under panels on the bridge
One would think they'd have a fuse to protect instrument panels from exploding on the bridge.... lol! Too easy I guess, not messy enough.
kinda hard when their weapons go straight through them
Did anyone teach those cadets we're promoting straight to bridge officers how to turn on the shields? No? Anyone?
Well shit....
those are dreadful weapons.shields can only dissipate so much energy for a given volume of ship...
One thing I could never reconcile with DS9 is where did Starfleet get hundreds and hundreds of ships not to mention the crews to run to fight in the dominion war? They had a hell of a time finding 39 ships to fight the Borg cube at wolf 359.
AMEN! I guess just as there is "Plot Armour" there are "Plot Fleets."
The Wolf 359 fleet was hastily assembled within a few days from whatever ships were closest. The larger Dominion War fleets were probably assembled over several weeks or even months.
1:11 Kinda looks like an NX class starship
LastMumzy i was thinking the same
bensebastianraymond Being the nerd that I am, I looked it up. Its an Akira class starship. It was the design they used to model the Enterprise NX01 after (basically they just inverted the nacelles).
Oh I see... Thanks for the clarification. :)
the king of torpedo starships not 1 torpedo fired
Everyone needs 17 Torpedo Launchers.
This all should have been on the big screen dammit! Damn you producers and Hollywood. Could you imagine if Star Trek had a 3 or 4 part movie like Lord of The Rings based on the Dominion and Borg?
I love how each alliance faction has their unique abilities. Romulan=good against weapon platforms Federation= support fire. Klingons= killing small craft like escorts
The Defiant is the most underrated ship in Star Trek lore. Also not bad for 90s cable computer effects.
so did none of these ships have shealds
Apparently not, and only the defense platforms shields seem to work.
The Dominion don't use shields, only by important ships or here the asteroid.
the federation and her allies uses shields, but the weapons from dominion penetrating the shields...thats all....you know that if you saw the series
The Dominion used shields. Weyoun told Odo that the Jem'hadar fighters' dorsal shields were weakest. Giving them the attack advantage from their rear top. It was mentioned in the episode with the defective weyoun.
+jutau Really? uh lol :D
Fact is, Dominions shields are weak haha
+Goodra LetzzPlay The only strong shield is a plot shield ;)
At some point DS9 producers just decided that ships without any major characters on them have no shields.
Why the hell is Kiera commanding the Defiant? Worf is the ranking starfleet officer and she has no starship experiance. She should never been in command
The Captain gave command to Kira, when he got incapacitated.
She commanded Bajoran vessels in some other episodes.
Steve Schmehl because she has a wet meat tube between her legs.
Kira is and has always been Sisko's first officer, you see her giving orders to Worf (and everyone else) often enough.
How could that generator/master controller have such a powerful shield that multiple blasts couldn't even scratch its shields but the weapon platforms cut through it like butter? Even when the Federation was still adapting to phased poloron beams and the like they were still able to inflict significant damage.
Because the plot needed it to work...
1:03 - 1:08.......Poor "USS Valley Forge"
From now on whenever something good happens I’m gonna slap my knee and say yesssssss!!!