I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story. One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed. And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure. Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically. In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things. Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.) Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
I feel like it's an effective design, honestly, kind of defiant'ish. Couldn't they weld some plating onto all this stuff for this war? The defiant was so tanky even when the shields were down. Could they not replicate just big titanium plates with their industrial replicators? And fuck windows, it's 2400, big 4k screens are cheap now, just make the wallpaper in every room be some 8k screen and run it all off cameras. The idea of windows is absurd now that I think about it, with how cheap cameras and displays are - even now.
The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1809 -1892 Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the soldier knew Some one had blunder’d: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Flash’d all their sabres bare, Flash’d as they turn’d in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder’d: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro’ the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel’d from the sabre-stroke Shatter’d and sunder’d. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro’ the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder’d. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred!
"They outnumber us two to one..." "There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out." "But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!" "We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
I love how Galaxy class ships in DS9 are so badass. They lead the charge and take on the Dominion's biggest and baddest ships. In TNG, the Enterprise takes one hit and Worf gets injured and the starboard power coupling gets damaged.
These are War refit Galaxies. Either science labs are ripped out, or not even built, and are replaced with stronger shields, larger torpedo magazines, more phaser systems or barracks for troops.
And that was all plot shit anyways, sometimes the enterprise was stupidly tanky. Sometimes it could square off with a Borg cube 1v1 for a few scenes, that's probably the most impressive showing of any federation vessel. But yea, I think alot of emergency shield breakthroughs came out of starfleet's science division based on the runabouts data from the Odyssy fight. For starfleet's shields to go from ineffective to effective against those weapons, and then the Breen's, late Dominion war federation ships were probably like 3 times tankier than they were at Wolf 359 in shields alone.
"Dominion ships! Staggered line! Ship Master, they outnumber us 2 to 1!" Sisco: "Then it is an even fight! All cruisers- fire at will! BURN their mongrel hides!"
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle. When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up? Never could get over this.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe . It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse... Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
They say 1254 Dominion ships and that they outnumber the Federation more than 2:1. Then they quote about the noble 600 from Tennyson. I never picked up there are 600 something Federation ships at the battle till now.
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo. That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
Even as a teen, I noticed the disparity: The Defiant could seemingly take tons of hits and still keep going, but other ships would explode with just one or two hits and that huge Dominion ship at the end was destroyed with just a few shots. Plot armor is really the best kind.
I was attached to the Light Dragoons from 2003-2005. They/we would commemorate the charge of the Light Brigade every year. Damn they knew how to party!
I love how during the show the cardassians went from being in command of dominion forces, to the exact opposite. They really played with fire and got burned.
I often wonder if the writers intended for this whole battle to reveal the absolute depth of Dukat's self-crippling ego. He baits in the Starfleet force with the intent to destroy it, but he doesn't have to win this battle at all. He only has to buy time for the minefield to come down, allow Dominion reinforcements through the wormhole, and guarantee victory. Instead, he's so intent on swinging his dick in front of Weyoun and the Founder that he employs a more aggressive strategy, allowing Sisko - the one being in all existence with enough clout to make the Prophets listen to him - to reach the wormhole and barter with his life to make the reinforcements disappear. Dukat was right: victory was in his grasp. But it wasn't the kind he wanted, so he threw it away. Am I reading too much into this, or is this an example of writing with fantastic subtext? None of the dialogue calls attention to it, so I honestly don't know.
MY BOY AKIRA WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU!!!!!!! my favorite class of starship in all of trek. the akira is so underrated and underutilized its a beast of a starship. torpedo boat and beam boat such a monster of a ship probably the closest to a true warship before defiant and the sovereign class.
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it. Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube. Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet. There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
They didn't really show it to good effect but there were LOTS of fighters, each capable of firing at least several photon torpedoes. And for the sake of action they showed fighters exploding after a single hit, but in reality they could take a couple hits. The fighters were actually much more combat effective in terms of personnel and material expenditure than capital ships. You're not any safer in a galaxy class cruiser than you are in a fighter. You just feel more comfortable the last 30 seconds of your life. Thats why sisko ordered the fighters to focus on cardasians because they actually were hitting quite hard.
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
Fortune favors the bold, but it doesn’t favor the stupid. When you are outnumbered, attack your enemy in detail and give yourself a strong local advantage like Caesar and Napoleon.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
Also Sisko is no "Sendling others to death and saying back" type. For his Charakter its totally plausibel that He is leading by example taking Hits and risk along with his man. Thats what Sisko is a "frontline commander" no "fucking Office and desc Admiral" Even if He would have survived DS9 in human Form, I dont think where would have been a Admiral Sisko. He would tske the honor to have Private Meetings with klingone chancellor, federstion president and others if the Chance arise but He would have denied a Promotion to Admiral. Thats not what he is.
three dozen Akira class battlecruisers to add, would have punched through. 15 torp launchers and multi phaser arrays is formidable. One took down 3 warbirds.
Thinking of it now, even on Earth combat no one employs vessels or aircraft or units or even soldiers shoulder to shoulder like this anymore. In space combat, every ship would be quite far away from each other and beyond visual range even from the enemy. All done by long range sensors and weaponry, even today outside of infantry fighting. This is just cinematic fantasy.
And people forget that a Galaxy Class could take on 5 Dominion fighters until the Dominion rammed them... I'd assume that these are upgraded. It doesn't mean the Federation Fleet lost that battle... they just got a bit behind.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor. It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9. The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage. Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
The Miranda class starship. Take punches to the face for The Federation since 2260.
The red shirts of starships
We used to refer to this scene as the Defiant having "Ablative Miranda-class Shields"
Reliant...... Captain Terrel
Yet boldly they rode, and well.
The Miranda class was where Janeway learned about "punching your way through" in command school. 😏
I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
I definitely will take this over the current Star Trek releases.
You should check out seasons 3 and 4 of babylon 5. They were out atyhesame time and competed for viewers...
Agreed!!
@@JeremiahMartin-s3g Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story.
One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
The part where the two Galaxy Class ships swooped in and obliterated the Galor Class ship was a freaking amazing start to the battle.
I’d like to point out this was a TV series where SFX department had just weeks to do everything each ep. And the score was Oscar level.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
@@shamelessnjc Yeah it's amazing how talented the cast and crew were. It's a damn shame they never got a movie.
@@jjimlee7009Also a shame that the series never got an HD release. I know it'd cost a fortune to do the whole series, but couldn't they have at least done some of the big battle episodes in HD for an anniversary celebration?
Imagine being aboard thinking well I could have been on the enterprise but u had cause that rip in the fabric of time and land here. Boom
@@ManabiLT Yeah. I can hope though someday. At least I can watch on Paramount+ the series in full whenever I want. Never get tired of watching the Sisko kick ass.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed.
And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
SEATAC. Seattle-Tacoma.
@@stratfordbaby Check USS Sitak at Memory Alpha. TH-cam won't allow direct link.
Such a bummer they blazed out. But EPIC
@@deaddropsd1972 There Maranda's, cover the holes with duct tape, slap on replicated engines and send them back out with a -B at the end of the registry.
@@stratfordbabyAs a non-(north) American, thanks for the clarification.
Ah, the Klingon "Ride of the Rohirrim - moment" ...
This is a space battle. And the sequence has aged very well. I just wish there were longer combat sequences.
CGI was still in it's infancy and they did a mix of that and practical models.
Limited budget and the times, half of the shots used here are reused in the battle for cardassia later.
"Auxiliary power to weapons! We're going to fight our way out of this!" Klingon commander, to himself; "I think I just had a wargasm."
nope that was a stroke🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Wagasm explains Worfs Face 24/7 😂😂😂
This is how you do it.
Every ships a character in the story and through them you see the drama unfold.
This is something I liked about SS9 for sure.
Being a boat nerd, I loved that they continued the TNG tradition of having The Mighty Hood pop up at times, but made it more badass. In TNG she was out in thr sticks, doing imoirtant offscreen work for the most part, and turned up around Enterprised periodically.
In DS9 she became a hero ship. Not because she was crewed by the protagonists, but because she did nighty things.
Unlike her unhappy predecessor she sailed on favourable winds, at the very spearpoint of the Federation war effort.
Garak's face when the Klingons arrive 😂
"Aha! My elaborately cunning plans have succeeded once again!"
Star Trek had an amazing ability to make you believe that ships couldn’t get past each other easily, in the infinite void of space.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
@@rrwholloway , for that detail of a battle set up you need Legend Of The Galactic Heroes or maybe Gundam.
@@rrwholloway Right. Unless you have clearly superior speed and momentum, trying to go around a large defensive force just means you'll get hit in the flanks or rear at a decidedly inconvenient time, especially in space where there's really no terrain to hinder either side. In this case, even if the Starfleet force somehow got around the Dominion one, they'd ultimately be trapped between their pursuers and the upgraded DS9 itself, which we've established as pretty damned capable of holding off an entire fleet for some time.
@@Wolfen443 And in book form read Jack Campbell's _The Lost Fleet_ series and its sequels. The author goes into great detail about the three dimensional battles in space, including accounting for the effects of time dilation (battles take place at no more than .2 combined speed of light, anything faster and the computer systems can't account for the uncertainty and score hits) and the vastness of space. (It's commented on often how weird it feels even for career fleet officers to have to wait _days_ for the actual battle after spotting the enemy fleet entering a star system, or when entering a star system themselves.)
Honestly, it's hard for me to visualize it all, but I really appreciate him putting in the details.
*watches as every enemy ship matches you move or move if you try to go around*
3:00 the Defiant surrounded by the Jem'Hadar, yet still shooting and weaving her way through the enemy is one of the most iconic shots of the entire series, in my opinion.
ExactoMundo
Still, to this day, some of the best battles in science fiction. I still get goosebumps when the Klingons come in fking sht up.
There’s always been something beautiful about the lines of the miranda class ships.
I feel like it's an effective design, honestly, kind of defiant'ish. Couldn't they weld some plating onto all this stuff for this war? The defiant was so tanky even when the shields were down. Could they not replicate just big titanium plates with their industrial replicators? And fuck windows, it's 2400, big 4k screens are cheap now, just make the wallpaper in every room be some 8k screen and run it all off cameras. The idea of windows is absurd now that I think about it, with how cheap cameras and displays are - even now.
The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
1809 -1892
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honor the charge they made!
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
Whatever it is you are reciting, I wish you'd stop.
@@Anthony-jo7up It is what is being quoted in the clips my man. Learn a little history.
@@Anthony-jo7up’Took me a second to get it, then I started laughing. Good one! 😂’
@@user-ll4lf5go1m
I think he knows that, my man. He's just being sarcastic quoting the scene from DS9.
THANK YOU!
"They outnumber us two to one..."
"There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out."
"But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!"
"We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Amazing... I'm stealing this.
Audentes fortunae juvat
The most important part : they have 1200 ships. So Sisqo just lost 600 ships.
Like the mindset of the writers of The Last Jedi, how many Imperial Destroyers and Alliance fleet ships do you in the screen?. Fill it up with more CGI copies more ridiculous than the LOTR battles.
Imagine being in one of those fighters and knowing you have seconds remaining of life. It's a ridiculous suicide assignment.
You accept you are dead already. You just make sure to take out more of them, before you go down.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
those fighters are automated in the 24th century
@@willt3223 No those are piloted ships. They adopted the same strategy as in ww2 that swarms of small craft could penetrate a large ships defenses and take it out with minimal cost of lives and material. Each starship is a massive expenditure in men and materials but each fighter is just a fraction of a fraction of the same cost.
imagine if instead of a galaxy starship, they had the number of attack wings as crew. so 1 galaxy = 1500 crew? that's 1500 attack wings that can take the place of 1 galaxy ship. i rather have that.
I love how Galaxy class ships in DS9 are so badass. They lead the charge and take on the Dominion's biggest and baddest ships. In TNG, the Enterprise takes one hit and Worf gets injured and the starboard power coupling gets damaged.
These are War refit Galaxies. Either science labs are ripped out, or not even built, and are replaced with stronger shields, larger torpedo magazines, more phaser systems or barracks for troops.
And that was all plot shit anyways, sometimes the enterprise was stupidly tanky. Sometimes it could square off with a Borg cube 1v1 for a few scenes, that's probably the most impressive showing of any federation vessel.
But yea, I think alot of emergency shield breakthroughs came out of starfleet's science division based on the runabouts data from the Odyssy fight. For starfleet's shields to go from ineffective to effective against those weapons, and then the Breen's, late Dominion war federation ships were probably like 3 times tankier than they were at Wolf 359 in shields alone.
Interesting how no-one trusts Garak but Sisko trusts him to be in a key role on the Defiant.
You can always trust Garek, provided your interests align. If they do, he's a hell of an asset.
Better have Garak close and as an asset, than to allow him to be unmonitored even for a Moment. Wise decicion by Sisko
keep your friends close….
most know the res
"Dominion ships! Staggered line! Ship Master, they outnumber us 2 to 1!"
Sisco: "Then it is an even fight! All cruisers- fire at will! BURN their mongrel hides!"
Bird of Preys were the way to go. You can run the ship with a crew of like 20 and it can rival any Jem'Hadar attack ship.
You can run a jem hadar ship on that too, and Jemmies are disposable
@@Belisaur Yea but flying a Jem'Hadar ship is harder with no damn viewscreen.
BOP's can go into battle with a skeleton crew of 6 not including combat solders can go up to 30. the Jem'Hadar ship requires a flight crew of 12 for operational capacity not including combat soldiers and can go up to 50. according to memory alfa.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
I'd rather see the ships than shield blurs everywhere. But that's just me.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle.
When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up?
Never could get over this.
It was a style choice, if there had been shield flares everytime a ship was hit, it would have had to have a seizure warning.
@@philipsnyder1687 lol
It was also a technical thing. They couldn't do shields for a hundred ships ether.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
When the Klingon bird of prey blows up another when helping the defiant to breakthrough
i only noticed this years after viewing but when the dominion battleship blows up, it was because it shot up the other bird of prey and the tumbling wreck crashed along the entire length of the battleship.
Very nice quality upload. Thanks!
still better than Discovery
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe .
It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
@@cft9798Well a fair chunk of the first season was set in the mirror universe 😁
Much better, pal. Much better.
Compare this to Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2. I dare you. “Yum yum.”
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
Those Birds of Prey flying alongside the Defiant had the right idea: start firing, keep firing, don't stop firing. :-)
Poor Will... Everyone is firing at him... LOL
Good thing the Enterprise has plot armor then :P
@@jpalmer999 NOT that Will, the other one.
@@aracuron9956oh no
Epic!!! I remember recording this on VHS when it was first screened and watching it back about 100 times! 😂
Nu trek certainly doesn’t come near as bad ass as this, I miss this show
I remember the week lead up for this or however long it was and it being such an amazing thing. Never before had we seen flea battles like this. Well yes I know that they had to cut out shields in order to make the fights actually go out of proper pace, still this was one of the most amazing things at the time. Sacrifice of angels indeed
1200 Dominion ships!?
Holeee shipballz
4:08 - When you play Top tier war thunder and your teammate has had enough of your shit
LOL I never noticed that the Klingons fly in from sun position like the Red Baron.
"They came screaming out of the sun..."
Can you imagine how happy the Klingons in the Bird of Preys were when charging with the Defiant at their sides?
the moment you her Klingon Disrupters, you realize its a very different battle
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse...
Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
DS9 version of SW Battle of Endor.
Lol. Lucas had a far larger budget!
Awesome scene of the TV show , WoW.
They say 1254 Dominion ships and that they outnumber the Federation more than 2:1. Then they quote about the noble 600 from Tennyson. I never picked up there are 600 something Federation ships at the battle till now.
0:36 The Federation attack fighters flying in formation always gives me goosebumps
This is one of the rare cases where early CGI models actually look pretty good even by today's standards. They did a great job on this show, more so than they did on Voyager.
I always loved this scene. Back in the old days of Star Trek Online when they allowed you to choose actual cannon ship names to command I chose the Miranda class Majestic and flew her for many years and seeing her blow up on screen is glorious
4:05 - The Klingon ships were shooting themselves!
Classic Klingon all the time fighting each other lol
Certainly looked like friendly fire took out that first BoP.
They get a little excited sometimes.
The first one looks like it, I guess it does happen in the heat of battle. It could also have been a polaron torpedo from one of the battlecruisers
This probably shouldn't have resulted in losing a ship, except knowing Klingons they probably routed all rear shield power to the weapons allowing the friendly fire from the rear to take out the whole ship with one hit.
Who's Still Listening To This In 2036 ?
Shout Out !
Spoiler Alert !
We Survived Asteroid Apophis In 2029 And Again In 2036 !
STILL GIVES ME GOOSEBUMPS.....
Still gets the blood pumping!
The fact the attack fighters weren’t using full power torpedoes is an insult to their crews.
Afaik the peregrin only had low power phasers and micro photon torps. It's just a shuttle sized fighter after all but en mass their combined firepower can take down starships.
If they were using full sized photons they'd only be able to carry four before running out of ammo.
That actually makes perfect sense given the type of historical naval ship they're an analogue for, but, yknow, scifi.
Even as a teen, I noticed the disparity: The Defiant could seemingly take tons of hits and still keep going, but other ships would explode with just one or two hits and that huge Dominion ship at the end was destroyed with just a few shots. Plot armor is really the best kind.
I was attached to the Light Dragoons from 2003-2005.
They/we would commemorate the charge of the Light Brigade every year.
Damn they knew how to party!
How come DS9 did not get a movie?
Can someone help identify a federation ship at 0:39 top right, is that an ambassador class? Sweeping nacelles.
I love how during the show the cardassians went from being in command of dominion forces, to the exact opposite.
They really played with fire and got burned.
I like the Klingon shops coming with the star behind them.
Nice thanks for this video!
I often wonder if the writers intended for this whole battle to reveal the absolute depth of Dukat's self-crippling ego. He baits in the Starfleet force with the intent to destroy it, but he doesn't have to win this battle at all. He only has to buy time for the minefield to come down, allow Dominion reinforcements through the wormhole, and guarantee victory.
Instead, he's so intent on swinging his dick in front of Weyoun and the Founder that he employs a more aggressive strategy, allowing Sisko - the one being in all existence with enough clout to make the Prophets listen to him - to reach the wormhole and barter with his life to make the reinforcements disappear. Dukat was right: victory was in his grasp. But it wasn't the kind he wanted, so he threw it away.
Am I reading too much into this, or is this an example of writing with fantastic subtext? None of the dialogue calls attention to it, so I honestly don't know.
This was quality sci-fi, they don't make shows like this any more.
That Cardacian dude had a lot of balls for playing with Cisco‘s balls. 😅👉🏼⚾️🤷🏻♂️
MY BOY AKIRA WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU!!!!!!! my favorite class of starship in all of trek. the akira is so underrated and underutilized its a beast of a starship. torpedo boat and beam boat such a monster of a ship probably the closest to a true warship before defiant and the sovereign class.
I loved the fact star trek finally got brave enough to do something like this. There's always errors on first attempt. However cudos for doing it.
Those saying in comments that they could go around the dominion fleet once they had them on scanner. That probably wouldn't work. Dominion could send ships to intercept. Since starfleet was outnumbered better to have fleet stick together. I agree with comments that admiral ross should have been in command of fleet. They had a 4 pip admiral command 40 ships to attack the borg cube.
Looks like the writer watched to much Babylon 5 in the fleet to fleet battles. Starfleet ships are way more maneuverable. They need room. This mistake was done in all the large fleet battles. Sisko actually says that as the go through dominion fleet. Can't believe he was the only one to notice that in the fleet.
There were alot of captains in the fleet that would have gotten court martialed after the fight. Sisko told everyone to go straight through. There were dozens of federation ships going across the dominion fleet and dozens even going backwards. Again it was a great moment for star trek shows. Why can't we go back to that?
Sacrifice of Ange3ls, RIP angels. I saw two galaxy class go down.
Funny enough the writers are always thinking 2-dimensional in SciFi... you can just fly/warp around the enemy armada
Damn the torpedoes! GO RIGHT AT THEM!
Best Star Trek series ever. My two favorites are Babylon 5 and Star Trek DS9.
"The second best thing about space travel is that the distances involved make war very difficult, usually impractical, and almost always unnecessary. This is probably a loss for most people, since war is our races most popular diversion, one which gives purpose and color to dull and stupid lives. But it is a great boon to the intelligent man who fights only when he must--never for sport." - Robert Heinlein
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
This was the power of Lightwave 3D. I wish I could see the wireframe behind the scenes.
The only thing that makes even plausible is that the Dominion is using the same ship designs they had when the war started. Meanwhile, the Federation has been cranking out new ships with all their top shelf tech built in.
Pliny the Elder said that right before dying during the Mount Vesuvius eruption in AD 79, But he died a Hero attempting to rescue citizens.
Nog: "Isn't anybody else worried about this gas?"
Best battle scene of all start trek seeing the Klingons coming from nowhere
Deep Space Nine was some of the best Star Trek ever made. Totally contrasts with what they are making now.
All of the previous ones do.
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
2:42 - shields suck on a Miranda class. One shot and the saucer section is toast. 😮
Fix them then: 6 Lines of code... 👽👽😎🙃🥳🦍
It’s an old hull, only so much you can do to upgrade and retool it.
Would suggest that the power input was so massive that the shields immediately overloaded, as if they weren't there.
By this point in history, the Miranda class was already half a century or more old. It wasn't built for modern combat.
@@terryroraus Miranda had only upgraded phasers and was 100 years old, but Excelsior class had new shields, phasers and quantum torpedos.
God I miss Star Trek!!
They didn't really show it to good effect but there were LOTS of fighters, each capable of firing at least several photon torpedoes. And for the sake of action they showed fighters exploding after a single hit, but in reality they could take a couple hits. The fighters were actually much more combat effective in terms of personnel and material expenditure than capital ships. You're not any safer in a galaxy class cruiser than you are in a fighter. You just feel more comfortable the last 30 seconds of your life.
Thats why sisko ordered the fighters to focus on cardasians because they actually were hitting quite hard.
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
Fortune favors the bold, but it doesn’t favor the stupid. When you are outnumbered, attack your enemy in detail and give yourself a strong local advantage like Caesar and Napoleon.
This was basically the turning point in FX. For close ups and hero ships, they still relied on physical models but the rest was CGI.
For any wondering, the poem they are quoting is "Charge of the Light Brigade".
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
It probably the venture which was one of the galaxy classes seen in other episodes. The other I think was the Magellan
After the Dominion War, The Starlfeet improve and build reallye more Batlle Ships to defend her Lines.
I would love to see these battles remastered with more updated action sequences.
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
Also Sisko is no "Sendling others to death and saying back" type. For his Charakter its totally plausibel that He is leading by example taking Hits and risk along with his man. Thats what Sisko is a "frontline commander" no "fucking Office and desc Admiral"
Even if He would have survived DS9 in human Form, I dont think where would have been a Admiral Sisko. He would tske the honor to have Private Meetings with klingone chancellor, federstion president and others if the Chance arise but He would have denied a Promotion to Admiral. Thats not what he is.
@@aracuron9956 agreed. He hated the adjunct role for Ross at the beginning of the war
@@austinperry1671 not only this He even punched Q on the nose. Name 3 other who would dare.... Ok name two 🤣
@@aracuron9956 post Picard season 3 Jack, Sisko, Janeway
three dozen Akira class battlecruisers to add, would have punched through. 15 torp launchers and multi phaser arrays is formidable. One took down 3 warbirds.
Thinking of it now, even on Earth combat no one employs vessels or aircraft or units or even soldiers shoulder to shoulder like this anymore. In space combat, every ship would be quite far away from each other and beyond visual range even from the enemy. All done by long range sensors and weaponry, even today outside of infantry fighting. This is just cinematic fantasy.
The concept of breaking through lines in space is certainly a suspension of belief with so few ships.
And people forget that a Galaxy Class could take on 5 Dominion fighters until the Dominion rammed them...
I'd assume that these are upgraded.
It doesn't mean the Federation Fleet lost that battle... they just got a bit behind.
This is still excellent.
These were great sci-fi tv and space battles, but I never got why they didn’t just warp to DS9 and fight there!
So this guy was in charge of a 600 ship fleet? Not a 4 or 5 start admiral?
This was something i very liked. In my opinion there are way to less big space battles in Star Trek series
What does captain Sisko have against Commander Riker? He keeps saying fire at Will.😅
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor.
It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9.
The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage.
Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
The Federation should have sent Picard to negotiate an alliance with the Borg. How many Cubes would it take to wipe out the Dominian?
Hearing people recite Charge of the Light Brigade before going into a battle like that would bother me too.
You're in this battle, but you're assigned to a Miranda. Maybe 10% of them survived but certainly some of them did. Are you on one of them?
Y'ALL GOTTA WATCH THIS ON FULL SCREEN ON YOUR COMPUTER !!!
Won't anyone give praise for that Galaxy Class cruiser which obliterated one Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser at 03:03?
Why didn't they just move 1000km up or down relative to the enemy fleet, and warp to DS9 from there?
Guess we know were Geordi got his spares from now ;-)