A Mystic's Controversial View of Spiritual Awakening
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- George Ivanovich Gurdjieff had one of the most controversial views on individual enlightenment and collective awakening. But this perspective was not a new philosophy and actually makes a lot of sense when we explore it at length. In this episode of The Sacred Word, I will explain Gurdjieff's view of how our individual enlightenment is opposed by something much greater than ourselves.
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This is very interesting. It seems that when an individual tries to break out of groupthink, opposition seems to come from a variety of sources. I like this post, different but sheds a little light on other possibilities.
Well said John. All of us on the path have surely felt that one way or another brother.
Thank you for the video, Jason. I must say that I concur with Gurjieff's view presented in this quotation. It occurs to me that any attempt towards collective evolution immediately engenders obstacles that encumber individual evolution. I smile because this reminds of my old college professor and mentor who used to say: "See, there is nothing wrong with elitism." And after having spent some time as a teacher, though I do not espouse subscription to any "-ism" (which would imply moving towards the collective), I think both Gurjieff and my old mentor had a point. Good work, man.
I totally agree
We are driven by the earth nature. The social structure is always identical for all communities which is key to survival process. Enlightenment is also relative to natural organic process. That is to say enlighten person become witness to all material activity but doesn't mingle with it due to its inherent nature. The entire existence is dualistic or rather relative which leaves no scope for judgement but to accept what is accepted by existence
Thanks for the video. I never thought about awakening like this before.
Jason, this is mind-blowing -- we watched it together here in this part of the world, and thought the timing was uncanny. Tremendous work, friend; we're so grateful.
Thank you my dear friend. I'm so glad you enjoyed this video. I'm grateful to have wonderful people like yourself supporting my work.
I heard about Gurdjieff through Ted Nottingham. He’s an Orthodox Christian that teaches inner transformation from a mystical point of view.
Gurdjieff Group of Toronto meets every Sunday 10 am @ youtube
Basically part of what is being said is that even the unenlightened people have there place and that perhaps if everyone did become enlightened it really wouldn't be the great blessing that alot of people think that it would be. Maybe perhaps I've misinterpreted some of this stuff a bit but like youv'e said this stuff is quite a bit to try to unpack.
Wow I didn’t know that was your book, I had planned on buying it just off the cover alone and separately enjoy your videos. Also interesting to hear about Gurdjieff , you don’t hear him brought up very often.
Yes it is my friend. I hope you get a chance to read it. I have authored 5 books and a new one on the way in June. I hope you enjoy my book my friend.
Thank you 🧠💖👍🏻
We ARE the planet, along with everything that appears to be “out there,” which we call the “world” or “universe.”
You are confused.
Investigate the underlying motive for “evolving” or notifying family/friends that you have “taken the path of enlightenment.”
Is it comforting to the ego that others look “up” to your level of “evolutiion”
Can you not take the path without notifying others?
Recommend you find a wise teacher before prematurely attempting to declare yourself a teacher.
Agreed
He wasn’t coming from a place of ego when he said that. Made perfect sense to me, not that I completely agree with the guy he is speaking of.
"Theres alot to unpack here"Well you can certainly say that again.
Very Helpful as always, thank you!🕉☯️☮
Thank you my friend.
There's no such thing as " enlightenment" ONLY the path TO enlightenment. So are farther along the path then others. But no one is enlightened. If anyone ever says that they are enlightened, by definition, they are not.
George Ivanovish Gurdjieff quote makes it sound like nature and the earth is out to get us...to think that all the while it’s this that’s keeping us down 😓
Every time that guy says something I’m almost always left feeling upset ... it’s like he just loves to upset people with his out there opinions.
Materialism separates us from nature and the “earth” - there is no separation. We are entering a phase of greater efficiency and growth for all form and formless. Opposition is contrast, contrast is key for growth, yet intelligent contrast is not opposed to growth, it in actuality seeks to support growth of the whole, never the single.
Thank you 🙏
Oh, I would love to hear Nisargadatta answer to this quote.
Interesting.
Of course, he came from a mixture of cultures that had living Shamanistic Traditions and Nature was held in high regard by those who did not particularly "evolve". Taking this into consideration, it seems logical that he believed - or at least taught - this. He has some odd concepts. It's important to understand his background.
Purusha & Prakriti is one relative scale of existence from subtle to gross. To see them as separate will be like segregating creator & creation. Similarly to think something as fortunate or blessed will be dualistic & has no meaning existentialy. The entire existence is relative so the point here I am trying to make is that there is one only & not two as we percieve generally. The classic example is that hot & cold are just the degree of temperature. Similarly the enlightenment & organic matter are one only. Only the degree of space element varies hence the individual judgment of good & bad fortunate & unfortunate doesn't have any meaning existentialy. The existence encompasses both RAM & RAVAN & never discrimnates.
Gurjiief's thinking seems to be , perhaps , based a very " class conscious , exclusionist view of local and universal existence ; he doesn't seem to percieve the universal connectivity of ALL life .Higher consciosness in humanity seems to necessarily include a more heightened awareness of it's integral part in the planetary well being ... ie the understanding of our existence as an organic part of the planetary whole is an immutable truth as in saying - when we care fore the planet as our mother , we and our mother/home/source flourishes more richly and exspansively ... thank you Jason Gregory for airing your commentary - Namaste 😔
Lovely Book congratulations !
Since borned, always felt that we are made to only raise one child as life could be honored such way. 3rd child family speaking. Sorry if my english may be bad.
Very interesting, but awesome video Jason ☺️.
Thank you my brother. So glad you enjoyed it. Great to hear from you.
Jason Gregory Same here
"The earth opposes our general evolution" How so? How does our evolution run counter to the earth's natural state of being? Enlightened beings would lose interest in taking care of themselves and the planet? That's an absurd assumption. There's a confusion between the earth and our own mind's ego here I believe. Basically this quote boils down to 'the earth needs cogs, so no not all of you will be able to raise yourself above the materialism of the physical world'. Absolute rubbish.
this implies that there is a preferred mode of behaviour that best suits the planet (world)...as opposed to human society...what could it be?? historical the only consistent behaviour (interaction with the planet) is exchange of oxygen for carbon dioxide and the consumption of water and food followed by excreting bio waste ...
Well, he also said , " Give me 200 realised men and women and I will change the world."
Very interedting perspective
I disagree, it's more the social structures we built and the ego opposing to liberation. If we see that part of the nature , sure, it is, on one side. Right now we are in an unconscious state, doing a lot of harm to the nature.. I trust that if more people would become aware we could build better social structures and a nice enlightened culture.
There are 2 movements: push and pull :) They are going to exist foreva :) Namaste
Top of the pyramid needs a wide base
Interestingly even the Bible advises the seeker of freedom to do what they do in secret.
🐬
seller ? .. selling books ? funny .. how can you sell true ...
Gurdgief speaks solely from the reductionist mindeset of science as the main argument, competition, power and survival... As though enlightenment is somehow equated to evolutionary advantage and completely overlooks compassionate acts in the face of overwhelming situations, such as hurricanes. People's first ins5ance reaction in these scenarios is to help each other.
From the stance of individualism as a contrary mode to collectivism, then yes Gurdgief is entirely accurate. Generally the masses are always suspect of any display of talent, or capacity which they sonehow feel that they are lacking in themselves.
He's not discussing the Earth's wishes, but simply human traits, and ones based around social advantages and social psycho-dynamics. The "crabs in a barrel" effect is always a resistive force within society, almost as a necessary, self righting mechanism to tyranny and authoritarianism.
This also comes into play when someone decides they're going to aim towards spiritual conduct as a means to overcome their "lower" natures. The mirrored polarity becomes something that others can feel diminished by. If a family member or friend makes efforts to change habits or behaviors, then the "what does that say about me" perception can come to the surface in those around then... And so a subtle game can begin to take place... And the one aiming to awaken, then goes through the trials, the subtle game of relinquishing ego, integrating the shadow, ending karmic cycles... This tests the grit and mettle of the spiritual intentions, pitfalls occur, changes in the 'exterior' experience take shape as the interior work begins.
For some, enlightenment can come easy, for others it needs the long way around. It's the philosophic game that takes centre stage. The one aspiring to awaken creates their own opposition to their lower nature, "banging a drum in search of a fugitive" as Alan Watts so comedically and accurately describes.
So what is identified, is that others sense the falsity in the aim of someone taking steps towards enlightenment, seeing that they're trying to pull themselves upwards by their own bootstraps... And yet pull we/they must... at least initially whilst the "chains of iron" are relinquished... Then it's hello to the "chains of gold" and the real inner work and challenges begin in earnest.
In order for any "success"/"progress" (for lack of a better descriptor) then any ideas regarding evolutionary advantage, power advantage, or social status advantage... Or even spuritual advantage for that matter, must be discarded... While ever any such image or ideal persists, then all that's occuring is a form of mental or moral masturbation, and a playing with concepts for the sake of posturing... Which unevitably will ebgender opposition, and rightly so! Afterall "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" and "the goody goodies are the thieves of virtue".
If there's somehow a belief that enlightenment will bring a form of superiority, then the point has been missed entirely! Afterall what would being evolutionary superior matter to a fully enlightened being? Evolution is simply the natural, or unnatural changing of genomic sequences over time, just another form of impermanence. On those material, root chakra survival terms then "there's always a bigger fish"... In terms of enlightenment, then it's the which beyond there is no whicher, no place to go, no need of a place to go, or to arrive at. The body is physical phenomena as part if the whole unfolding of maya.
You are notnig