Shivshankar Menon on India & China: Past, Present, & Future
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- #ShivshankarMenon #IndiaChina
India and China have different narratives and understandings of their relationship in history, particularly in the 19th and 20th centuries. Now, both countries have changed beyond recognition, and those narratives of the past are potent instruments of statecraft. The relationship is in crisis and faces an uncertain future. In this edition of The Talk at Manthan, former National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon discusses India's past with China, how the relationship came to its present condition, and what is expected in the foreseeable future.
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I heard a recent interview with Ananth Krishnan from The Hindu, and he described a conversation he had with a Chinese diplomate who described the difference in approach between China and India thusly: Indians seem to believe that you cannot have a productive relationship until these major disputes are first resolved, while China believes that you cannot resolve major disputes unless you first have a productive relationship.
Like kanti bajpai says Indians are emotional while Chinese are more pragmatic
Both approaches are predicated on having Trust -- India was badly burnt by Mao's distrust of India
@@SrikanthIyerTheMariner India is the belligerent party in the border dispute, Nehru's Forward Policy started 1962. But truth doesn't matter in Indian discourse. Desi will be desi.
@@tobacco118 Truth is what you believe. None of us can travel back in spacetime to verify.
But Why will India suddenly be the agreessor when it has NEVER attacked ANY country in 5000 years? India never even defended herself ... and Nehru, that incompetent idiot, suddenly decides to have a forward leaning posture? I wish he was aggressive in Kashmir and kicked Pakistan's ass in 1948.
What the hell are you taking about? The only guy with any balls was Sardar Patel and he was dead before that.
Mao on the other hand, despite all his personal faults, was clear eyed on his One China policy and took Tibet by force.
So it is much more likely that India was caught with their pants down , like Nehru was with Edwina Mountbatten.
It’s a shame that videos like these don’t have millions of views. Thank you The Print for what can only be described as a service to propagating truth to the people of this world.
Chinese are puzzled by Indian hostility to China same as Indian puzzled by Chinese hostility to India. It is really necessary for two countries and two peoples to communicate better and know each other better.
N'y
No.
Chinese and Indians understand each other perfectly well, especially in ruling elites.
That’s why they know they can’t get along.
But that’s okay
Thankyou Print for giving people the views they must always refer to when talking about China.Manthan has always been a platform that brings up voices that must speak for the different sectors of the country.Always a pleasure to watch such informative videos.
Hi Namra. Happy to note you’re a loyal follower of ThePrint.
@@ThePrintIndia
loyal ?,
Dhanyavad 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Video posted 33 minutes back. 85 minutes long video. Already 6 dislikes! Speaks volumes about the critical skills of these viewers.
Well what can we do ?
Informed folks like is understand the game of "diplomacy".
Maybe people gauge the way the speaker will go.after all this is the generation of instant gratification.people don't have patience. This is a issue globally and not just in India.But valid point
People tend to make up their minds in the first three minutes... attention span problem
Technically possible to watch the whole video in a shorter time if you watch at faster speed. But personally, I think there is nothing to be disliked here.
This fellow is the worst NSA we had and has no credibility. Most viewers with critical skills would give a dislike within 5 minutes after listening to his monotone. I use it as a sleep aid
Such a nuanced & intelligent discussion. I can't help but express my deepest respect and a sense of awe at the clarity of thought showcasrd by Mr Menon. Please invite him again and ask for what steps should India take to navigate the current world politics post Trump in the next 5 to 10 years.
Yes I really like listening to Mr Menon too. Clarity of thought n articulation, spot-on.
4:32 "Gandhi suggested passive resistance to Chiang Kai-shek "
How would that work with Japan ? Gandhi studied law in Britain
but obviously no history : the Japanese Shogunate was a sadistic nobility enslaving a 'subhuman' subsistent peasantry.
Britain had given the world parliamentary liberal democracy, had a free press,
and as the Young Ottoman Nedam Kemal said (1865) "The indomitable power of public opinion".
That's why non-violence was a good strategy. The liberal British public were outraged.
How could that possibly work against Japan ?
Japan had no free press, they were devoted to the Emperor and beaten into submission
by the army.
Gandhi made a huge blunder in equating liberal Britain with totalitarian Japan.
Thanks to the team of the print for such an informative and thought provoking tutorial . I wish Mr Menon good health.
Whenever Menon says "She", I cannot comprehend if he means "Xi" or "She" 😅
China is a female country, so is India (ex. Mother India). Germany is a male country (Germans use Fatherland), so its culturally how they see it.
Prashant Chaudhary: Can tell you are poorly educated.
Time well spent. Very informative. Thank you Shivashankar Menon and all involved.
Amazing !! Just what we needed.
Thank you so much mr menon, from a Chinese fan.
Mr. Menon, great presentation: insightful, and clear.
The fundamental issue is that India is geological term. It was a former colonial region for the British Empire. When the Brits left, some Hindus took the opportunity to claim everything that the Brits left. But that claim is not sealed with BLOOD AND CONQURE. So you see, the claim is not real and so you can tell that Indians are very nervous about the land and it always acts like fighting with its neighbors or with its own people to show how strong and determined it is. But the reality is that there is no fact to support that. It is basically some servants claiming ownership of the house after the White Masters left the house.
what you describe can equally be applied to China which picked up its diminished pieces after the Mongols subjugated and ruled over China in the 1200s. So do not arrogate your Chinese self in believing that China was always whole, not long ago it was only 1/3rd the size its claims today. Once every 100 years borders change with changes in power equations.
@@swamisundaram They actually fought a long war with the Mongols to form Ming Dynasty. They literally chased them back to the steeps. It was extremely bloody. And they fought among themselves to eventually have one man coming on top, and that is Chu the first Emperor of Ming.
@@swamisundaram On the other hand, India did not go through the blood shed. Instead, the Brits "drop it" on their servants hands. The problem with this power transition is that nothing gets changed because there is no powerful entity that went though the power consolidation. It is basically the British Servant proxies assuming the roles of the management. As result, all the issues with land, with order, and with customs are left exactly as it was, which is a colonial economic structure to serve the British Empire. It is all chaotic and messy. You can call it "democratic process" but you know quite well it is just a cover up. The real issue is that there is real power in India to do the right thing such as land reform. And in fact they dare not to, because if they do, the land may collapse to tribal kingdoms again.
The best way to describe India is a Giant made of mud bricks. It looks big but it is just a pile of mud.
@@jkuang are you contesting that Kublai Khan, Genghis Khan’s grandson did not create the Yuan dynasty in China? This was done by subjugating the Chinese population. Him and other Mongol contemporaries ruked over China for decades. When their empire finally declined the Chinese who were the servants of the Mongols , as you suggest, took over the remains of the empire fighting among themselves. Similarly in India the Hindus were the rulers before the British or the Mughals cane to trade. Donut is only logical that the British acceded control time the rightful Hindu owners of the land that was known for over 10000 years as Hindustan. Unlike Genghis Khan whose grandsons established the Yuan and other dynasties in China, the British or Mughals have no such trace in Hindustan. Go figure!
This guy is very knowledgeable and has a cool head that sees things clearly as the way they are, devoid of emotional biases.
He is a Chinese dala.
Q/A starts at 41:25
The QA session was the best part to learn anything about the topic. Thank you.
Jai Shree Ram
Lots of diplomatic words. Mr Menon's delivery suggest that India needs to bow down to China or is scared. A fit accompli. The narrative needs to shift such that India is much more bolder. The measures that India has taken should have taken and delivered much earlier. What is done in India's territory is in its control. China does this. India needs to accelerate border development and strengthen its armed forces further. India should not bow down. Both vertical and horizontal journey's are needed. India is seen to the external world as weak in diplomacy and effect.
Watching it today ..better late than never ... amazing content out there :)
Good to hear from prospective of an Indian intellect. Both India and China are very nationalistic these days, however there are very little in-depth reports about India in China domestically, the only countries in citizen's focus are from the West. Therefore, Chinese are pretty ignorant about India ( not much anti-India sentiment though). After I hear the interviewer asked you questions about "communism in China", I realize that Indians seem doesn't know much about China too. Other than Marx' Materialism which is an essential subject in University, no one in China talks about communism for decades. Education system and media in both countries are responsible to teach their people correctly, so that we can understand each other better and have a healthy relationship with competition and mutual agreement. In addition, human rights in China is understand as security, fairness in work, access to variety of foods etc, that is fundamentally different compare with a developed country. BTW, Menon's description of current Chinese government "Leninist" is completely off.
The general Chinese public may not know a lot about India, but there are Chinese scholars who have in-depth knowledge of and ties with India.
Eg.
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The discussion was illuminating. But the future remains uncertain. Hope we will be able manage the challenges.
It's not, when the essential information is missing, the root cause of the conflict -- the British colonization if India.
You skipped the most important part of the history for border conflict between China and India.
China and India has been peaceful neighbours for thousand of years, until India was colonized by the Britain. The British occupied China's lands before the World II. After the British left, India refused to return the lands to China, continuing with what the Imperialist British did wrongly. That's where the lands conflict is about.
As for the issue of Tibet, you are playing the dirty politics of interfering China's internal affairs. Remember, India is not free from your own internal issues, would you want China to play that card too? e.g. supports several states to separate from India?
British drew an arbitrary line on the map, but didn't enforce the border. Post independent India sent troops to occupy South Tibet from 1949 onwards. I'm afraid you're missing the finer details.
It should also be noted China didn't sign the agreement. Legally, it is invalid. Neither did British impose on post indepedent states to follow it. Pak, Burma and Nepal all resolved the border with China.
It's a diplomatic nicety and a myth to say India and China were peaceful for thousand of years. Both countries had little contact due to Himalayas. Some monks and traders did travel after Silk route was established, but there was no official diplomatic exchange, like China-Persia. When there was state-to-state contact, it was war. Dorga fought China when they invaded Tibet in 1840's. Gorkhas too fought China over Tibet.
@@pomodoro385 well, Dorgas also fought with other states in the current India region. There has been many battles in that region. It's meaningless to mention it now.
At least you admitted the part of British colonialist did shamelessly. Remember, India was never a country until the British colonist occupied the region, unlike the current so called India tried to show how united and confident it is.
Again, India uses the Tibet like what the British did. Tibet has been a part of greater China for hundred of years. It's rediculous for India to claim anything relating to Tibet, by supporting anti-china groups. It dooms to fail.
@@JJ-bo3wm Dogra fighting others is irrelevant as they were not part of China like Tibet is. Are you intellectually sound? When India and China did meet, it was war. Kingdoms from India subcon always wanted Tibet.
Not British's fault. They drew a border line, but didn't enforce it. Neither did British impose on India, Pak or any post indepedent states to follow the line. Newly Independant states are free to decide, Pak and Burma realigned border with China. It is India's own decision to occupy South Tibet in 1949.
@@pomodoro385 Agree!
India was never be a unified state nation before the British came invading this region now it is so called India - so the gentleman has nothing to tell you the bi-lateral relationship between China and India before the British colonial ruling in India region.
gr8 discussion !!!! Learnt a lot.
Very insightful discussion sir. Thank you!
Mr Menon thank you for a brilliant presentation
Seeing things as it is, is one of the hardest but most important aspect in any area. And Mr.Menon seems to have done well in this field. Good to hear non baised (non propaganda) speeches
Very informative video about India-China border dispute and what India should do in future.
Tension on border will certainly calm down as winter has come to mountains. But border issue is not the cause, it is the result of broader concerns.
Dense with information. Very very enlightening. Thank you for the presentation.
An informative show🥰🥰🥰.
Refreshing to hear someone this authentic and wise
Very insightful
We need to engage with China at every level like PV Sindhu does!
@trader john Indian badminton player
like you engage with a snake?
Haha if life was that simple
Very Wise Man
This man missed the most important part, and the cause of the land conflict --- the British colonization of India, only when so called India became a country.
Forget Tibet... The present Tibetan in India are descendents of land owners.. The rest left behind were liberated. Been to both places...
Free Tibet!
Wow!! It is always enlightening to listen to Mr. Menon. This was the fastest and easiest way to understand China and us. Thank you so much.
Yes, he is a great NSA. Sat on his wet behind when 26/11 happened
@@TheDeepeshsethi Why can't Imtiyaz express his opinion and how come Quran come into picture. He could be atheist etc. Did he say anything related to religion here. Blind hate creates obstacle in critical thinking.
@@aanakrukavi I know him and we do such things with each other, anyways m removing my comment
@@TheDeepeshsethi Thank you and sorry for any misunderstanding..
👍 Mr. Menon is one of d very few Indian that can talk about China in a very dispassionate manner. Though I don’t agree w/ some of his observations or comments about 🇨🇳, over all, he tried to be as non - biased as possible. I would not mind listening for another hour or more. 👏👏👏
Sir ( shivshankar menon) I really love the way you think
This is a brilliant review of Indian strategic interests and choices. History is very much a part of the calculus. I hope that all the decision makers at MEA are listening. While China suffers from a single decision maker, India need not follow that path. The critical decisions are best made with broader input - India has many smart people - some in government and many outside.
“China cut India like a salami”.
Manthan all speach are amazing
Hm Chiang Kai Shek used for context to mock China but at same time using Taiwan was as a context to justify the threat of China. Interesting!
What do you think we can do to make our nation competitive in manufacturing and trade particularly with RCEP nations?
I was impressed by Mr Menon's depth of understanding and erudition.There are a few areas that have been skimmed over. The total subservient surrender of Tibet.The
Insistence that China be made a permanent member of the UN security council that was offered to India.The Hindi Chini bai bai. And the Pancheel agreement with China insisting that it was against the imperialist powers and neo colonialism.
Loved this informing talk. India under Modi has lost the track of high growth. Internal turmoils (religion, Kashmir, farmers, notebandi), antagonizing neighbours, protectionism shown by rejecting economic alliance, inability to decide to replace China as a world's factory at this very moment and many more blunders. Missing is the policy to deal my country Pakistan for economic integration as a region.
You don’t need anyone my friend. The day Pakistan gives up terrorism and fundamentalism, stop bringing religion in to everything, they will be on a path to glory. Learn from bangladesh
@sidhant kasliwal read my comment again, I was pointing something else.
No one cares about Pakistan’s economy
Former NSA menon is a 💎
Loved this talk with Shivshankar Menon
This is how learned people talk in public
Excellent personality...
So there are two emotions that control Indians. One is that they view themselves as the land owner of India the geological term. It is big and it has a lot of people. It feels important. Yet at the same time, they are fully aware that the reason they have the land is because the Brits left it for them. They never actually lose blood or sweat to earn the land. They did not fight to unify. And they did not go through land reform to consolidate the power. They basically squeeze into an existence. And as result, they never really have a strong say as a nation. It is more like a group of servants each looking at at other other and think the other does not deserve the house that their White Master left them. Two emotions. Always flipping in and out in Indians' psychological reflection. And as result, both aggressive and nervous at the same time.
Hi CPC Bot! I learnt something from your comment.
So there are two emotions that control Chinese. One is that they think that just because they made some money in the past four decades, so they've become big-time jerks who underestimate their adversaries and consider themselves to be the masters of their neighbourhood. Second, is that their deep-seated suspicion of foreign powers results in them falling prey to the nationalistic propaganda from their ruling party so that it can preserve its legitimacy when China's economic growth is slowing and its population is ageing. CPC doesn't want to give democracy to the Chinese, so it is anesthesising them with expansionist nationalism. Two emotions. Always flipping in and out in Chinese's psychological reflection. And as a result, both aggressive and nervous at the same time.
Let me tell you something, bot.
I know what you're doing here. You're engaging in psychological warfare. You're trying to prey on the insecurities of Indians. A fine strategy, but not infallible. Nevertheless, you won't succeed, because there is a fundamental contradiction within all One-Party states. Once the party loses its legitimacy, the regime crumbles.
@@amanshukla8758 Hindus never fight for land. The Brits left it to you as the biggest servant after they left. Instead of getting the land back to the former kingdoms (especially the northern and north eastern kingdoms), you took the opportunity to steal the land for yourself. "Whatever Brits claimed, We Hindus Claim!" That is the your only justification for any border issue: THE BRITS DREW A LINE ON A MAP, SO WE HINDUS OWN IT!
@@jkuang Chinese never took back Taiwan because they know it is an independent country, Chinese never fought for the land
During freedom time, only 5% to 8% of us were literate. And we had approx 600 prince's states. After that we have only ideal of shiva, religion and dogma. No true direction is shown to us. What we are now ,though not enough, is in path of science and education.
While what Mr Menon spoke about the need for India to self reflect more to better understand it's relationship with China is true. Mr Menon's assessment and analysis is the same rhetoric the Indian Media have been dishing out. Nothing has changed. It is quite clear for most of the countries in the world where they stand politically and strategically. It is only India and to a lesser extent Australia seemingly at a lost. For India, it is confounding that India does not think of itself as Asian. For the most part, India views the world in the lens of a Western world view. That's is the key to why India have such difficulty understanding it's neighbors, especially China. Mr Menon's analysis simply reflect that. I wonder if Mr Menon have ever travelled to China before, exchanged dialogue with any Chinese intellectuals or counter parts? India's prosperity and destiny is intimately linked to Asia and it's neighbors. However, India is seemingly intent to alienate itself from Asia. Seemingly decided to align itself to the Western world. Possibly thinking India can play the role of China to the Western World in the late 1980s-1990s and become the Western World's manufacturing and trading hub. India should give up its Colonist tendencies and interlink with Asia instead. No matter how hard India will try, India will never be a Western power insider. Only integrating with Asia will India find it's role in the world.
Then Why is China exporting to western world while India shouldn't. We tried to accommodate China. For example Though India produces Basmati Rice, China buys it only from Pakistan and kept in place lot of non trade barriers to avoid buying from India. While western world buys Rice both from Pakistan and India. We tried everything, Even being subservient, helpful whatnot to China. Now we understood that at least being subservient to Western world and Japan provides us jobs, technology and development. Its best being a slave to western world than to China. See how south korea has developed being subsurvient to USA, But see all the countries like pakistan, srilanka who took loans from China are in the verge of bankruptcy. We are not competing to become Western Insider. We just wants to reduce poverty and develop our country. Our development will happen only if we believe Western world. We know that there is no development aligning with China except border attacks, chinese support to pakistani terrorists on UN security council and irritating India by helping Pakistani terrorists . Chinas only help to India is supporting Pakistani Terrorists on UN security council, America's help is providing technology to manufacture Boeing parts in India, Japan helping to manufacture Bullet trains in India. Now tell me whom we have to respect. We respect people who respect us. " There is no Asian link, Its better to believe far away western world, than believing fellow Snakes, Just because they are nearer or neighbours."
The broader problem shouldn't be a problem if both countries can use technology to monitor it. Human soldiers too close for an in your face approach is really a man-made problem that is no necessary. I respect all Soldiers who are passionately protecting their own country. My late Godfather was a WWll ventren, I was growing up with a lot of his war stories. I was too young to appreciated it. but now I'm 72 years old. I'm so grateful for what was convicted to me.
THANK YOU SIR...!!!
Listening to you reminds me of some points ...( a perspective from an ordinary person. ) IT may or may not do any GOOD.IF it does , it could be the drop that fills the bucket...!!!
1) China could be communist...it does not mean they have no religion.
2) china is well connected to old HRE masters.
3 ) HRE dependents on China.
population growth,
associated cheap labor,
Export& production factories,
4) UN's lack of interest in population control in the world.
5) Assassination of INDIRA GANDHI...( An advocate of population control.)
6 ) ITALY's interest in SILK ROAD (OBOR ).
7) voted ' NO ' in UN SECURITY COUNCIL.
8 )HRE ' s CONSERVATIVE EXTREMISM AND LIBERAL EXTREMISM...!!!
9 ) RELIGIOUS POLITICS and COVID -19.
10 ) The old SLAVE MASTER is alive and well in new form with different players.
Finally it is a QUESTION...WHY THE UN TAKES NO IMPORTANT STEP TO CONTROL AND MAINTAIN POPULATION GROWTH...??? EVEN in the crucial times of :
Environmental pollution,
CIVIL WARS and Refugee crisis,
RELIGION &Terrorism,
Poverty and homelessness,
Poor Health & Hygiene facilities,
EPIDEMICS & PANDEMICS.
Many Orphans an foster kids ,
NO proper UNIVERSAL EDUCATION ,
NO Healthy PLANNED PARENTHOOD,...!!
WHY...WHY ...WHY NO INITIATIVE TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS...???
THE LESS EXPENSIVE AND SAFE SOLUTION IS POPULATION CONTROL...YET THEY BEAT AROUND THE BUSHES...!!!
IS N'T IT THE OLD RELIGIOUS POLITICS TO THE ADVANTAGE OF THE OLD MASTERS OF THE WORLD...???
Thanks for taking time to read my humble opinions & comments.
It really takes few minutes to take my head around your comment
No offence but why youtube place advertisement of Hair Trimmer in this video
Menon Sahab's perception of 'equivalent civilizations' is not reciprocated by the Chinese. Most Chinese don't think Chinese civilization has a parallel in history, some may think Persia as a civilization on par with China.
Is this interview available in black n white
Project India has a lot structural problem. The only time India was great is. Pre-Raj when you have many completing kingdoms or during Raj when she is ruled with an iron fist by the British . Democracy comes too early for India when votes can be bought by money and promises. Democracy is only good for a society/country with the same level of education, income, opportunities and same rights and equalities. Like the developed countries in the west. Until you get that you will only get leaders doing things not for the good of the country but for the whims of the powerful and for populous votes to keep in power .I am afraid there will be still a lot of pain because you get the gain. I feel sorry for the poor and and weak.
Shivshankar Menon sir an experienced deplomat so his views has its own weightage. But the strategies he is suggesting are same as what we have been working and haven't achieved anything.
Can someone explain who is disliking these videos? These videos are pure gold, I don't think I can get this level of insight anywhere else
Interesting perspective! There is a fraud however. The WW I between Germany and Britain was because of geopolitics. Both countries had similar political systems, culture, and closely coupled economies. It was only because Britain’s dominance in Europe was threatened. It was nothing to do with differences of political systems, cultures, or anything else. USA and China are on a collision course of another geopolitical competition this century. India is an important country and should play a constructive roll to the world peace because today’s weapons can wipe out this civilization when a war starts.
India is a big country and needs to respect traditional neighbors of small or large states, such as Nepal if India wants to be respected and trusted. India did annexation of the state Sikkim not long ago, would Bhutan be the next? And also, what would Indian think if China supports India’s separatists. Yes, you guessed it, that will be the same thought China has when India is meddling China’s national interests.
A fantastic analysis. Very insightful. We've erred, but we will be strong and no pushovers
These Indian Diplomatic guys will not allow China to speak. They will prompt China with their own sophisticated words and mostly it would put China in a nice picture at smile at the Chinese. Chinese will not speak and look at these guys without a smile. Then these guys will think - Oh. Chinese are not happy. So we should speak more nicer words and remember whatever they read from encyclopaedia. For this Chinese will nod and give a face debating to smile or not. Then these Indian diplomats will announce a great agreement & bonhomie. See how he is putting the reason for Chinese build up along LAC.
Nowadays, the external political environment for India is excellent, all countries want to cooperate with India including China. All India needs to do is grow itself internally. Unfortunately, that is all on Indian's own intelligence. China's model is not viable to India and democratic country has no successful model for India to follow due to it's size.
Size is not a problem, it's an asset. What matters is economic policy. India had bad economic policies because the founding fathers of the Republic believed in socialist economics and protectionism. That didn't work. So since 1991, India has gradually reversed it's economic policy, though a lot of work is still left to be done. And talking about democracy, then nay, economic freedoms can thrive for long without political freedoms, which means that democracy is essential to economic prosperity. You'll see.
Great to see sir giving such indepth knowledge
China in fact is calling india cutting the salami... so how do we know who is telling the truth?
Satellite images before and after
Thank u so much Menon Sir for speaking the truth that India & China have no connection whatsoever until China occupied Tibet in 1959. Before that was Indo-Tibetan Border. It was painful to hear likes of Sham Saran even not saying it bluntly and also implying that 1962 war war due to HH coming to india which is not true at all.
Borders are fake lines drawn randomly by colonial British cartographers for their own benefit
Dear Mooed, One should give credit to the Babus in Delhi for continuity in policy viz a viz Pakistan. However flawed it may be in terms of productivity. History is like statistics. Depends when you cut the cloth of time. For Pakistan it has been last 20 years. For us it has been since 1947. With interference of Baloch regiment in supoory of genocide of the partition. Interference of ISI in 1950-60-70 in India’s North East. Please don’t jump to the conclusion that we want to undo partition. It was a good that it happened. We don’t deserve each other. It is a pity that we are neighbours. However one still lives in hope that peace may prevail in our lifetime. Not as vassal states to CCP. Thank you for sharing the narrative. Best Mann Singh
Except democracy, China is far ahead of India under all parameters of development. It is a bitter truth for india.
Nevertheless we must admit a truth. We can't be in self denial. Nor can we feign ignorance of the obvious, for long.
Democracy doesn't necessarily brings development. Good and adaptive governance, in whatever form and manner, is the key!
No system is perfect!
Ideological 'isms' are ideals. Realities are the imperfect outcomes of lengthy and complex historical, and often dramatic, human struggles.
Those brought up under Western values have a Pavlovian response to the phrase “freedom and democracy.”
Democracy without economic and social justice is often a convenient shelter for maximising profit for the rich and powerful.☝️😉
Read and ponder on the followings:
1. ******
(RSA Spotlight)
The Trouble with Democracy.
th-cam.com/video/OeATD0X0oCw/w-d-xo.html
2018.05.22 (6:42)
(2:49) "... money has slipped into the political process. ... there is a survey that was published in the NYT a couple of years ago, that estimated only just 158 families in the US are responsible for 50% of the political contributions that had been used to fund the President's election in 2016."
［It was reported recently that the 2020 US Election costs a record UD$14 Bn.］
(4:16) "According to a Pew survey, 80% of Americans do not trust their government to regularly do what's right."
(4:48) "... the Economic Intelligence Unit has downgraded the US from being a full democracy to being a flawed democracy."
*******
(TED Talk)
Is China the new idol for emerging economies?
th-cam.com/video/4Q2aznfmcYU/w-d-xo.html
2013.11.12 (16:24)
The number of illiberal democracies has been increasing. WHY?
☝️Dr Dambisa Moyo.
Global Economist, Author and Speaker from Zambia.
Master Degree from Harvard. PhD from Oxford. Worked in Barclays Bank, SABMiller, 2 years for World Bank, then 8 years in Goldman Sachs.
Author of 'Dead Aid - Why aid is not working and how there is a better way for Africa.' (2009)
2. *******
www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/10/Pew-Research-Center_Liberal-Democracys-Crisis-of-Confidence_2018-10-18.pdf
Liberal Democracy’s Crisis of Confidence
by Richard Wike & Janell Fetterolf
Pew Research Center.
2018.10.18
☝️Recent surveys suggest that progress toward democracy has been stalled or reversed in many emerging and developing nations, while several wealthy, supposedly “consolidated” democracies have experienced "significant and unexpected setbacks."
Moreover, it is clear that people around the world have very different understandings of individual rights and the boundaries of individual liberty.
3. *******
(At Long Now Foundation, on 23 Apr 2018:)
America’s Fundamental Misunderstanding of China.
th-cam.com/video/Ojr-tqaQQOQ/w-d-xo.html
2018.05.11 (4:06)
☝️Kishore Mahbubani
Veteran diplomat and Distinguished Fellow at the Asia Research Institute, NUS.
Former Dean of LKY School of Public Policy at NUS, former Singaporean Permanent Secretary to the UN, former UN Security Council President.
4. ******
(TED Talk)
A Tale of Two Political Systems
th-cam.com/video/s0YjL9rZyR0/w-d-xo.html
2013.07.02 (20:38)
---
As a society progresses, it eventually becomes a capitalist, multi-parties democracy. Right?
☝️Eric X Li
Investor and Venture Capitalist.
Political scientist.
Founder and MD, Chengwei Capital.
UCB graduate, MBA@Stanford University, PhD International Relationship & Public Affair@Fudan University
5. ******
www.edelman.com/sites/g/files/aatuss191/files/2019-02/2019_Edelman_Trust_Barometer_Global_Report_2.pdf
☝️According to this 2019 Edelman survey on public trust in government, China has the world’s highest rating, at 88 per cent, against 42 per cent in Britain, and 40 per cent in the US.
6. ******
www.statista.com/statistics/1116013/china-trust-in-government-2020/
Trust level in government in China 2017-2020
Published by Statista Inc. (NY)
May 14, 2020
"According to a global survey on the trust level, about 90 percent of the Chinese respondents trusted the government to do what is right in 2020, listed in the first place among 26 countries.
On average, about 49 percent of respondents showed trust in their government globally."
---
7. *****
www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/26/c_139241987.htm
Trust in government in China surges to 95 percent: report
Source: Xinhua
Editor: huaxia
2020-07-26
WASHINGTON, July 26 (Xinhua) -- Trust in government in China has surged to 95 percent from 90 percent in January, according to an Edelman Trust Barometer trust and credibility survey.
The number is higher than that of other 10 countries surveyed by Edelman, a U.S. public relations and marketing consultancy firm.
The United States is second to last, with only 48 percent of the interviewees saying that they trust the government.
The survey was conducted in mid-April by Daniel J. Edelman Inc.,
and sampled more than 13,200 respondents in Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Japan, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Britain, and the United States.
Democracy also has lots of disadvantages e.g. religious hypocrites, anti-family-ism , ordhonariswar-ism i.e. homosexuals. guruism, Jain-guruism, naga-ism.
Rigidness and Softness can never go along and the quest for diplomatic solutions is a waste of time and energy for both China and India.
Excellent.. Very well articulated & Carefully crafted each word to express openion by Mr.Menon....
Mr Menonji thank you for your analysis and insights. Our leaders need to be proactive and NOT follow the footsteps of a politically confused Mr. M.Gandhi and his crony and lackey Mr Nehru who are the main sources of all our troubles to we have today , to begin with.They should be like Netaji Shubhas Bose, Sardar Patelji and Shrii B Ambedkar . Then and then only will India be able to redeem itself as a great nation to become a future leader of the world. It's has all the makings and power to achieve that. God bless this lost nation.
I have not seen the full video yet. But isn't this the same guy who called for the US to interfere in Indian domestic politics recently stating that Trump wasn't doing enough on this front? How seriously can we take such people? Do they really have India's best interest at heart?
He has common sense and understands realty. I completely agree with his view
Our flag does not fly because the wind moves it, it flies with the last breath of each soldier who died protecting it
Who knows
I am from China and visit India in 2015. I love India for its diversity and friendly people. I try to express my personal opinion using my poor English. 1 where are we now:The border problem is a history problem. Because of history,we do not have a both agreed border map. Because of history, we people are sensitive of border problems. (China have a long shamed history aince 1840 until 1949, when I visit India in 2015, I been told a lot about 1962, In China, media nearly never talks about it but it seems shamed Indian people a lot. I can feel the same cause China media repeatly say Japanese invasion in world war ii ,I hate Japanese due to long term educations. I think this is the reason why border problem so sensitive. 2 Where are we going now : both of us need develop economic to make our people living a better life, border problem is not good for both party. We need negotiate and make some compromise,as I know Indian is very good at negotiations and want to gain every single interests, it's not compromise. At least, we should setup DMZ zones like North Korea and South Korea, something not clear so make it grey now, maybe a better solution. And I don't think ally with other country can bend China,The Korea war is an example. When China is weak at that time can fight with us and its Allies for its interest, today China have more confidence and power fight with anybody when necessary. Hope political in both countries have wisdom to solve the problems quickly.
Hate not a solution, border conflict happened this year, both side lost valuable lifes,but the Chinese media never say how many lifes lost, and i believe the government don't want make the Chinese people angry and lost control, and I think the Chinese government don't want a war.
It would be good to understand from Menon how hurting the Indian consumer - which is what restricting cheap imports does - is in the welfare of Indians, or how it bolsters India's military defenses against China. If anything, does not restricting imports ie exports from the Chinese perspective, give the latter one less reason to be hurt from harming India's interests? For the Chinese, doesn't it make offense that much a less dear option? Why not give the Chinese something to lose?
China gained independence not one but two years after India, two years and two months to be exact.
China was always independent. 1949 was when Commuist took over China, before that Republic of China 1912.
I am sorry to note that he draws a rather pessimistic future for India. Not that I have any better idea. As regards RCEP, India would have been invaded by Chinese goods and services. This will also hurt India strategically. I feel dejected after listening to this talk.
18 times meeting between Xi n Modi !!!!!
Go figure we never went anywhere trying to build a empire
..some substances with no solution.
Hope Modi's administration has a chance to listen. India is missing the bus again and again.
Pls take a few seconds to know about Naxalite. It is the future of India.
An analysis telling only 40% of the truth, the rest of the facts are left out on purpose....where are all the promised investments from american MNCs?why are investment capital not flowing into india?
sadly a politician and a diplomat whose thinking is outdated......doklam a fatal mistake for india. Why is this man so foolish....and shortsighted in his analysis...and trying whatever means to salvage some lost pride
An insightful presentation except one blind spot: China was actually goaded into adopting a more aggressive posture by USA. Trump time and again pushed China to defend its interests when it felt that it had no choice but to stand up to American. India was a willing parter of USA has got caught in the crossfire.
Read Qur'an and lives in 6th century tribal life, this stuff is not for you
@@TheDeepeshsethi your sophistication is astonishing.
@@fareedhussain59 m I not right??? Then we may discuss further
what is the chinese involvement in insurgency in india at present
This man is the worst NSA India has ever had. Now he goes around giving free ka gyan.
Abandoning Dalai Lama unthinkable ,negation of all that is India.
Would it hurt India to simply pay China to keep from hurting the former's interests? For instance, pay China to NOT dam the Brahmaputra. Whatever the economic benefit the local people are to get from the dam, India will offer to pay the equivalent in cash on an annual basis. It looks suspiciously like bribing, but if it gets the job done....(?) Also, why not just offer to buy in cash the part of Aksai Chin under Chinese control plus give China right of way towards Xinjiang from the south-west? They get what they want; India gets what she wants. Is confrontation helping either party? And how do we pay for this? Open up Indian tourism to Chinese tourists in a massive way and get them to spend their time and money here!
Mr.shiva Shanker menaon youmust elbaret what is deparenece. And why border dispute not. Steele in Nehru CA all Hindi Chinese nahei bahei.next what led auqpetaion Tibet.by Chema.nheru oblieje.india.
Sir, we hardly know about day today life in China , how many private newspapers, you tube news channel in circulation there? How many magazines or writers publish as private companies and share own views as done elsewhere? Do you not think if newspapers or channels are in control of the government, how do people write their views or have their interests served? We here a.lot. about. Uighurs , does newspapers or magazines publish it or shown on television? Which clause serves freedom of press there? When did we realise the balance of trade deficit, what measures we did then?
Is not Maoism a form how everyone gets representations?
Try writing an OPINION PAGE ABOUT YOGI in UP....KASHMIR IN DHELI so on ... Chinese are 5 times richer than indians
@@bigbang6382Richness is good, then why aren't private newspapers in circulation there? are they using fb, whatsapp, twitter and so on? How can outside world know about them? It seems they are highly cut off from outside world?
Apparently, you think "free/private/independent" news media means they are all free of vested or hidden interests (commercial or otherwise)!?
Well, then you are not one of the very, very few people who know and understand why the following geopolitical facts of our modern digitized information world means most people don't/can't/fail to perceive reality as it really is:
1.
*****
www.webfx.com/blog/internet/the-6-companies-that-own-almost-all-media-infographic/
☝️The 6 Companies That Own (Almost) All Media [INFOGRAPHIC]
By WebFX Team
May 22, 2017
While independent media outlets still exist (and there are a lot of them), but the dominant and major outlets are almost all owned/controlled by these six conglomerates.
2.*****
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/power-comes-to-those-who-own-our-media/WVXPPOH4BA7AKDAADTSBSXFPQE/
☝️Power comes to those who own our media.
'Consider this example. Two reporters for an American television station were working on a story critical of the giant chemical firm Monsanto. They were asked by their bosses to soften their report. They refused and were fired.
The station had recently been bought by a company owned by Rupert Murdoch.
Defending their firing of the reporters, the station executives explained: "We paid $3 billion for these stations. We will decide what the news is. The news is what we tell you it is."'
---
3.
swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/
☝️The Propaganda Multiplier:
How Global News Agencies and Western Media Report on Geopolitics
A Study by Swiss Propaganda Research
(Translated by Terje Maloy
2016 / 2019)
It is one of the most important aspects of our media system, and yet hardly known to the public: most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.
The key role played by these agencies means Western media often report on the same topics, even using the same wording. In addition, governments, military and intelligence services use these global news agencies as multipliers to spread their messages around the world.
A study of the Syria war coverage by nine leading European newspapers clearly illustrates these issues: 78% of all articles were based in whole or in part on agency reports, yet 0% on investigative research. Moreover, 82% of all opinion pieces and interviews were in favor of a US and NATO intervention, while propaganda was attributed exclusively to the opposite side.
***“Therefore, you always have to ask yourself:
Why do I get this specific information,
in this specific form,
at this specific moment?
Ultimately, these are always questions about power.”
Dr. Konrad Hummler, Swiss banking and media executive.
4.
Language plus cross-cultural barriers make it difficult for too many people all over the world to hear what significant others who don't share their language or culture have actually been saying FIRST-HAND. For example, all that large majority of Western/English speaking people would know about China (or Russia or non-English speaking Indians), even on their official pronouncements, much less voices from the common folks in China (or Russia/India), would derive mostly through "carefully curated" "hearsays, narratives and interpretations" by English/Western media!
And, it certainly didn't help if our history lessons/school education systematically "predisposed" us with cognitive biases favoring flawed and/or outdated geopolitical views, instead of the ability to intelligently question and regularly re-examine a rapidly changing world.
*****Prof Zinn explains how history is systematically abused for political and foreign policy goals by US in his talk at MIT on 2005.03.14:
The Myth of American Exceptionism
th-cam.com/video/s6ym9B6I3UM/w-d-xo.html
2019.07.30 (1:33:12)
---
(46:26-49:30) The history of the "expansion" of US is based on the idea of Pre-emption and Unilateralism.
(49:30-52:30) The history of American expansion is not the history taught in schools. We have a discipline called "diplomatic history" where history, based on foreign policy goals/needs, is misused to support expansion.
☝️Prof Howard Zinn, chair of the history and social sciences department at Superman College, and political science professor at Boston University.
... We need to share such awareness to more people (and teach our youngs) why it's important to constantly question everything that we read/see in the media, especially on social media. 👌
If you still think China is an authoritation state, you should reach out and ask the many foreigners who are happily traveling, studying, working, and living in China.
Below, I have gathered some samples of the several hundreds of individual foreigner vbloggers who are freely publishing and sharing (in English) their daily experiences and observations from within China:
YChina:
From Lockdown to Rebirth: What is Wuhan like in November 2020
th-cam.com/video/clrRRWge8Kg/w-d-xo.html
2020.11.11 (20:48)
JaYoe Nation:
China Covid Cover-Up?
th-cam.com/video/geU0_TQD2L4/w-d-xo.html
China: One of the Safest Countries on Earth!
th-cam.com/video/8ood2Lh7w4s/w-d-xo.html
Jerry Goode:
11 Million People Mass Tested in 5 Days! (Ground update from Qingdao)
th-cam.com/video/2gH4ZjX6Hk8/w-d-xo.html
Chinese people enjoy Extreme Trust from their Government
th-cam.com/video/x70e7peMZbM/w-d-xo.html
Cyrus Janssen:
Does Freedom in China Exists?
th-cam.com/video/EjMS4-kIZKg/w-d-xo.html
Western Media's China Bias.
th-cam.com/video/s04O2P9NFpM/w-d-xo.html
Barrett:
More Western Media Lies About China
th-cam.com/video/vlFj53XuCRI/w-d-xo.html
2020.06.12 (12:46)
Western vs Chinese Mindset
th-cam.com/video/vnr16D1vnBI/w-d-xo.html
2020.03.15 (12:18)
Dan Dumbrill:
Visiting a Tibetan Middle School
th-cam.com/video/pSWaFsLgEpU/w-d-xo.html
Nathan Rich:
Xinjiang, China
th-cam.com/video/EovpQE6dZeE/w-d-xo.html
keybros:
National Security vs Democrazy: Analyzed with Facts and Logic
th-cam.com/video/6vP6Pdx_3A8/w-d-xo.html
2020.09.07 (21:35)
Expats in China:
th-cam.com/video/ZlMZvXEFJLk/w-d-xo.html
Mary Jane (US):
th-cam.com/video/70Fj7tBJUb4/w-d-xo.html
Yvon (Holland?):
th-cam.com/video/ZTEsTeNF2GI/w-d-xo.html
Miriam (Sweden):
th-cam.com/video/H3t8_BH4F3c/w-d-xo.html
☝️ actually, it would be best, if you get an opportunity, to go China to see, and hear from ordinary Chinese there for yourself! 😉
Sir, when you give examples of private bloggers outside as visitors, why aren't people connect with outside world with FB, you tube, twitter etc.whereas people from there living in different countries using a lot, is it not a contrast? Do you think man can live without religion? Do everything not have vested interests except nature , the gift of God?
Hardly any point summarising last many years chain of events. Why can't we go straight to the point amd keep video crisp amd relevant.
彩
I don't believe in hate mongering as IR is a game of power and right now Chinese are the powerful ones.
But i wish to know who these 23% percent Indians were who held favourable view of China after Galwan Incident
Chinese got there head open in ladakh.
Analysis is correct. But I think as you mentioned , you cant use the same strategy and expect different result. ie we cant afford to appease China which you are suggesting and clearly failed so far.
Menon comment on civil and political matter were great but he talked about economic RCEP and point the fingers on domestic politics was not like expert comment. Advocating india participation in RCEP on the basis that India is missing the bus of development because less investment will come without RCEP while india have trade deficit with all of these RECP contry how our export would reduce if not join RCEP. We have trade surplus with US and EU so it better to focus on it only. this regional block was never beneficiary for us neither individually nor as a block. They will come when used & humiliated by China. It's not 1 county it's 1.4 billions people or 35% of RCEP who didn't join RCEP OK. Now come to the point of domestic politics reflects on foreign policies what r u talking about there is no opposition nor a opposition leader virtually in India to whom BJP should consult for consolidated foreign policy. It just because of Congress want the whole power to remain with only one family this is very unfortunate to India that we don't have opposition which fight for their advices inclusion in rulling government policy. So it's not about BJP hegemony but it's about weak Congress...
India labour are still cheaper than that of Chinese work force. Indians were blocked conservative ideals sceptical to any foreign countries. The closed door kept 20 years behind. Millions of educated fled to America and western countries and ordinary people to Asian countries. Foreign dream is still high in India. The unorganised sector is back bone in Indians economy. Abolish all taxes to that of only one TurnOverTax compulsory without any reservation and open free tariff and trade and sign RCEP . Indians will beat Chinese goods to Indians by unorganised sector.cheaper than China. India will become world trade centre shortly. All those born in India must be given citizen ships irrespective of parents status like American.
Thanks to The Print for bringing this discussion for us. Mr. Menon captured the strategic situation well, but did we hear you say that there are authoritarian, strong men on both sides????
Mr. Menon, how come your are comparing CCP Chairman to democratically elected Prime Minister of India????
@@bobsmith3983 Yes, if we are to consider CCP == China.