uh.... idk why this was reuploaded.... but i guess since its here ill just let it be. and have it be unmonetized. i dont feel like re uploaded stuff that isnt improved upon should get money. Theres been some people that havent even seen this one anyway.... so. sure. The Reupload can stay
One thing I thought on making Smash 6 worth it... Have the Melee Tech but simply it where it's still Wave dashing yet inputs like Brawlhalla and Rushdown Revolt does it's dashes Edit: I believe L cancel shouldn't come back.
Doubt they'd do that, since it wouldn't bring any new people into the series. Honest question, if it won't increase sales, why would a company focus on this?
My reason is simple. I finally got what I wanted so then the gimmick of getting your dream roster was kind of over for me so I saw the game just through the gameplay. It was like... As soon as Banjo came out it just wasn't the same.
While I personally wouldn’t use mechanics like wavedashing, it would make competitive play more fun to watch. You make some very good points in this video.
That last gripe. Fox and Falco can do that too, but it just makes more sense for Ganon he's actually supposed to be capable of flight, but that might be too much logic and unbalanced. Lol.
For me personally it's just only smash ultimate i don't like from a gameplay side, the controls just feels sticky n clunky and it doesn't help that hitpause is unnecessarily boosted by a ton, the inputs for attacks and stuff feels very delayed even i pressed the button a second ago. That's y I just been playing Smash 4, Nasb 1&2 n PlayStation All Stars
For me personally its really just the fact that I grew out of it, its just not my thing anymore so I just moved on. I still like Smash and heck some of the mechanics that you werent fond off, ngl I do like personally such as the character trasnformations and randomness since in my opinion that aspect of Smash allows opportunites where players just have to just learn to adapt to those changes, but I do respect your opinion nontheless, and do understand why something like this wouldn't appeal to you, so agree to disagree I guess. I will say there are some points I do agree with you such as the Removal of Depth. Like yeah we do understand that Sakurai is trying to make the game as approachable is possible, but as you said no one is getting bodied because they know how to wave dashing or L cancelling, they're getting bodied because the player using them so happens to be better, this is true even in every other Smash game since different mechanics and tech are always being introduced, and pro players will always use them so there is no point in removing it, heck if Sakurai really wants the game to be more accessible he can still keep those moves but probably make the inputs for those moves far easier to execute. Also more complex mechanics isn't going to take away from the fact that Smash is still a casual game that everyone can play.
This feels like that scene from the simpsons where Homer's trying to tell Moe he lost himself a customer but Moe can't hear him over the millions of new customers swarming to him.
@@SoftwareNeos Eh, you're explaining your biases is probably better way to frame it. "Flaws" are a little bit of a reach, especially we look at your argument for "more gimmicks" _(like Rushdown Revolt or Rivals of Aether)_ or how casuals might get turned off by high APM mechanics like Wave-dashing and they should "Ignore the casual audience because it's not going to change whether they win or lose". Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is the *highest selling fighting game of all time* , the latest Street Fighter & Tekken are sill trying to reach their *week one* sales after both being released for months. The way you're framing this video makes it sound like its a huge failure, without offering much in the way of constructive feedback other than mirroring less successful IP's, instead of integrating it into the existing systems, while still appealing to a casual audience _(which is why the game sells so well in the first place)_ .
"The *worst* online of any smash and perhaps of all available current fighting games." could honestly just end the vid right there and it would still be 100% correct.
"Why can Sora side B and then up B and vice visa but my boy Ganondorf can't?" It's because Ganondorf is a villain, the same thing happens to Wolf. Fox and Falco can side B + up B (well they can't Up B + Side B since up B puts you in free fall) but Wolf can't side B + up B.
About parry. Ultimate actually IMO has one of the best implementation of parry of any FG. Parry is not a bad mechanic like in most FGs, its just polarizing. The problem it creates is that since its always frame 1 it is always the best option. So if your opponent is parrying even 20% of the time theres no counter play. Like EndingWalker and Kakeru in SF6 In Ultimate parry is not frame 1, but its still over powered since most moves are minus on shield and parry gives you an additional 3f to punish, you have to be ready for it. Most FGs make parry the answer to everything without weaknesses like SF6. About hero. It rewards players like that to help casuals and in competitive play it compensates for his lack of fair, bair, and grab. Trust me im a hero main. You have to be outplaying your opponent so much most of the match. Hero is a low mid tier character that has rock lee shackles on. G&W 9 is not a problem, G&W is the problem since hes top tier in this game. DLC are in late dev cycle so they get more time, hence all the mechanics.
Lemme come up with 10 things I HATE in Smash Ult that need IMMEDIATE fixing: -Air Dodge SD : Sakurai....Why TF do like 90% of characters lose a stock and often the match if they SD *O N C E* away from the stage?! Get rid of 80 frames of end-lag cuz that is just shitty -Byleth: Why is it that this character's bow goes thru EVERYTHING and is THIS fast?? Nair is annoying af, and this bitch is just invincible with the recovery. In fact most of the aerials have a ton of priority for 0 reason, and with most the moves having beyond mid-range coverage makes him/her not fun AT ALL to fight. -Belmont recovery: It's as bad as Little Mac's for 0 reason. I dont even play them and I feel sorry for players that pick them. -WoL: 0 Spirits radar, same 7 gimmick fights on repeat, very few cutscenes, very little character-to-character interactions, no warping, very generic story, underutilized character abilities for most of the playable cast, need i go on? - Online: I STILL get random 4 player matches, tourneys are a joke, and for the love of god Sakurai....FIX YOUR SHITTY NETCODE!!! NO ONE WANTS TO HOP ONLINE FOR UNDERWATER MATCHES!!! Echo Fighters: Greedtendo put in ZERO effort to de-cone characters, so most really are copypaste, when they really had a list of differences in the original game. (Looking at you DARK SAMUS) - Sephiroth's speed & defense: Why TF is he so SLOW?! His run speed should be twice as fast, all of his sword attacks take a year to come out, and dies as fast as Pichu for literally Z E R O Reason!! We're talking about the dood that one-shotted the game's boss that no diffed the cast....And he gets THIS bad??? - Sonic neglect: Sakurai I dunno if you know this...But Sonic is a VERY versatile fighter. Lightspeed dash, Lightspeed attack, Sonic Wind, Chaos Control (we have time-stop attacks in the game, dont @ me), had bombs at one point, can send shockwaves, can- GIVE HIM MORE THAN SPIN ALREADY!! Put more dam Sonic characters too. They're far more recognized than other IPs. - Load times: When we're reaching Sonic 06 levels of long load times, that proves how Little the game is optimized, ESPECIALLY when booting the game. -Plz PLZ fix recoveries. Pyra shouldnt die if she's an inch away the ledge, Mythra should reach if she's two ft under the ledge to have average recovery, Why tf doesnt Ridley have a diagonal recovery and can only go in 4 directions? Ik he has a good double jump, but give Ness a normal recovery so he's not so predictable offstage. PLZ fix Chrom's SHITE recovery, literally the worst in the game since he dies if he's an inch away from the ledge (and counter-gimping him isnt fun to do/watch). - Fake Zoom-In Deaths: I cant tell you how often I see these. Sometimes 3 times or MORE in a match. - ACTUAL Patching: For a game that has list upon list of patches....Imagine if they actually mattered, to yknow....FIX THE PROBLEMS ABOVE!!! Instead of ""you now do .000002 less damage" "you now do a breeze's worth less of knockback". How about.....GIVE characters moves to be better.
I always thought counterpicks were real in Smash 4. Melee was unbalanced. Brawl had tripping, and Ultimate had a bunch of DLC. RoA making wavedashing an even playing field unlike Melee is great. But to heck with the fundamentals sometimes because there's no attack triangle. Smash is great but the characters ruin most of it.
After putting like 2000 hours into the game and switching to melee I’ve become sort of an ultimate hater. But even I think this video is just “my game is better than your game.” There are so many valid things you could criticize ultimate on like the horrible buffer and input lag but instead you just bitched about shit like luck based moves which literally affects 2 characters. We get it you wanna be different
I personally think that you're missing the point of "why doesn't ultimate have wave dash" and you excuse it with "the casual player will never play with the pro player". Smash is supposed to be a game where any member of the family can play it, and the more advanced are the techniques, the higher is the skill gap between player and the most frustrating it becomes for new players to get into. Now imagine that a 11 y/o tries to play some random online matchups to have fun and all he finds and all he finds are guys that do things that he isn't even able to understand, so he will just never touch the game again. In fact all that is the exact reason why smash is more popular than the classic fighting game, besides of being a massive crossover.
This is just the same (wrong) argument of "Think of the CASUALSSSSS :crying_face: " Casuals are playing the game cause pikachu and mario are on it, and your entire argument would still exist even if wavedashing was gone because the skill gap is WAAAAAY MORE than just being mechanical, do you really think Brawl made it any easier for a casual to beat M2King? The answer is no. Melee was quite literally THE best selling game for the GameCube, explain to me how a vast skill gap will scare away casuals from smash when even the most competitive game in its series, was a best seller for its console? "The higher skill gap between player and the more frustrating it becomes for new players to get into." This applies to practically anything competitive, its like saying we need to dumb down basketball because I can't beat a professionally paid player.
@@Krona-fb4dn ofc someone that that play the game for fun will never be able to win a game agaisnt someone that practice seriously daily, but I think even you know that the arguments that you gave are stupid. Melee was a game realized in 2001, no online, and the only way to play to play with someone else is with another person in local multipleyer. Melee has a lot of technices, but if nobody you play with know of their existence or don't know how to use them, then is a more fair game. Brawl is a similar story, is the game more anti-competitive in the whole series, but the online was overall bad, and people was still mainly playing in local multiplayer. Now, throw any of this casual players to play on Slippy or Rivals of Aether? In my case I only play Rivals and everyone that gets into the game has alredy know how to play smash to a certain level, but imagine that someone that has never played a smash game in his life go and tries some online matchups online? It will only get frustrated by the amount of times he would be losing over and over. In smash the basic the only thing you need to know to play is how move, how make every attack, and how use you Up b or Side b to recover, but if you keep adding mechanics that keep making that the skill gap is wider, your new players will get frustrated and won't wan to play the game anyomore by how hard is to get into. In fact, this is the exact same thing that happened to Neos but at a lower lever, he thought RIvals was because the only way to win was camping and when some guys told him that he was wrong he deletd the video, and apologized saying that he regrets of doing that video, and all was just a matter of skill issue. In fact, now that I remember, the main objetive of rivals 2 was making a game easier for new people to get into. And exact same thing happened with Guilty Gear Strive- and Street fighter 6, they made a game easier to get into and now their game is funnier, have a bigger player base, and have players of all level enyoing the game. So in short words if you make a make with mechanics easier machanics, you'll have more people exited to get into the game and more people will want to get into, ofc there will always players better than other, and that's nothing you can do about it, but is about make the game closer for someone that has played 20 hours to someone that has played 50 hours. Idk if I made my point clear, but I wish I did, tbh I currently don't play smash bros neither, I enjoy of faster passed games, but the main objetive of smash is making a game where is easy to new player to get into, and if you keep adding mechanics that make the job harder, your game will have a lower amount of players.
@@jhoan9728 Again, you're linking mechanical skill to the same as dedication. The two are distinct. In addition a person who is 'getting dumpstered' online can just as easily start to improve or have fun with what they're doing. Lowering the skill gap for players has not had a good history with any fighting games, not just Smash. th-cam.com/video/iSgA_nK_w3A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Core-AGaming Fairly noteworthy example of "lowering the skill gap" is by adding lag and reducing input accuracy needed to actually do a combo (often to the point that in comparison to past games it looks like you're just mashing.) Also, you're confused and talking about having a *Low Skill Floor* (barrier/required skill for basic entry), NOT a skill gap. Lowering the skill floor is vastly different than lowering the skill gap, since nothing is stopping a game with an easy entry being insanely hard to master/difficult at top level or having mechanical complexity. The point of "they made a game easier to get into and now their game is funnier, has a bigger player base, and have players of all level enyoing the game" is moot since this applies to *new* games, which results in recency bias regardless of how good or bad it is. More people always flock and play the newer game. Would strive be more popular if it came out before Xrd?
@@Krona-fb4dn ...but....you do dumb down baseball when kids play it, it's call *Soft Ball* & *Little League* . Also, Smash Ultimate dwarfs *every other fighting game in sales* , even SF6 & Tekken are trying to get to their week one sales after months of being released. I'm not sure what your point is other than _"Wave Dashing _*_can_*_ work in a fighting game"_ which it totally can, but I don't think it's a necessary mechanic to be competitive or successful. Multiversus & Melee both have it, but they're _wildly different_ in effectiveness (such as Superman or Space Animals/Luigi in either game as really good examples of it being stronger than most of the cast). I'll be honest, it's a cool movement mechanic, but I don't even think it's half of why Melee's movement is so interesting to watch, save for some characters.
@@nicholasrolison926 I never said that its needed to be successful? My argument was that its not a good idea to gut out competitive features of a game for the sake of appealing to casuals/trying to make casuals better, they're gonna play regardless cause its smash. NOT "smash needs wavedashing to be successful" Also tbf, casual =/= children. Part of the reason I think fighting games can be so cool is that age isn't as strong of a factor in it as you may think. I entirely disagree with this notion that Smash is as popular as it is simply due to it being "the easiest" to play. It glosses over the fact that: 1) The switch was a wildly successful console even before Ultimate 2) Smash has ALWAYS been a top ten seller on every nintendo console its been on, Ultimate obviously continued this trend 3) Nintendo has strong IP and brand recognition from consumers 4) Ultimate was advertised to be bringing back *every* smash character that's been in the game and then showcased Ridley, as to say "Yes, we added the character that Sakurai deliberately and openly said 'no' to" right at the end in the same reveal 5) Smash as a franchise was nearly 2 decades old, its not exactly new and even the Wii U managed to pull in pretty sizeable sales for Smash 4 Sure, it helps smash that its 'somewhat' easier than other fighting games for a brand new person to pick up, but I think saying Smash would suddenly gatekeep massive audiences simply for having more mechanical complexity for a fun competitive landscape.
Tbh ultimate is the best platform fighter game imo, im not that good at mashing or wavedashing, i play competitively, i cant help that my fingers dont move that fast, wavedashing would just make it harder for people whose fingers dont move at light speed, characters do have gimicks, steve existing is a gimick, also arsen is pretty easy to beat atleast for sonic, just run, shield, or wait a second before letting the fsmash rip when you can just, read the counter after the 1st of 2nd time
@@SoftwareNeos They arent saying you are wrong, they are saying that the video has nothing to do with the title and that you are only giving your personal opinions without explaining anything in a subjective matter. Sponge dude explains it pretty well.
@@hope8097 The opening line is "Why I don't play smash bros anymore", I think if you take a problem with the fact that its personal opinions after "Why *I don't* " then its just on you. could the title be better? Probably but oh well, going after what a video is called instead of anything the video actually discusses is just complaining for the sake of complaining.
uh.... idk why this was reuploaded.... but i guess since its here ill just let it be. and have it be unmonetized. i dont feel like re uploaded stuff that isnt improved upon should get money.
Theres been some people that havent even seen this one anyway.... so. sure.
The Reupload can stay
One thing I thought on making Smash 6 worth it... Have the Melee Tech but simply it where it's still Wave dashing yet inputs like Brawlhalla and Rushdown Revolt does it's dashes
Edit: I believe L cancel shouldn't come back.
Doubt they'd do that, since it wouldn't bring any new people into the series. Honest question, if it won't increase sales, why would a company focus on this?
My reason is simple. I finally got what I wanted so then the gimmick of getting your dream roster was kind of over for me so I saw the game just through the gameplay. It was like... As soon as Banjo came out it just wasn't the same.
Smash didn't fell off. YOU fell off!
“ how can I be different today?”
FR
Literally
Rivals 2 gimmick is waiting for it.
just making sure I don't fit in...
While I personally wouldn’t use mechanics like wavedashing, it would make competitive play more fun to watch. You make some very good points in this video.
That last gripe. Fox and Falco can do that too, but it just makes more sense for Ganon he's actually supposed to be capable of flight, but that might be too much logic and unbalanced. Lol.
Yeah I think even if they do make a new smash its just gonna have even less depth.
Lisa ost stays on top
For me personally it's just only smash ultimate i don't like from a gameplay side, the controls just feels sticky n clunky and it doesn't help that hitpause is unnecessarily boosted by a ton, the inputs for attacks and stuff feels very delayed even i pressed the button a second ago. That's y I just been playing Smash 4, Nasb 1&2 n PlayStation All Stars
For me personally its really just the fact that I grew out of it, its just not my thing anymore so I just moved on. I still like Smash and heck some of the mechanics that you werent fond off, ngl I do like personally such as the character trasnformations and randomness since in my opinion that aspect of Smash allows opportunites where players just have to just learn to adapt to those changes, but I do respect your opinion nontheless, and do understand why something like this wouldn't appeal to you, so agree to disagree I guess.
I will say there are some points I do agree with you such as the Removal of Depth. Like yeah we do understand that Sakurai is trying to make the game as approachable is possible, but as you said no one is getting bodied because they know how to wave dashing or L cancelling, they're getting bodied because the player using them so happens to be better, this is true even in every other Smash game since different mechanics and tech are always being introduced, and pro players will always use them so there is no point in removing it, heck if Sakurai really wants the game to be more accessible he can still keep those moves but probably make the inputs for those moves far easier to execute. Also more complex mechanics isn't going to take away from the fact that Smash is still a casual game that everyone can play.
This feels like that scene from the simpsons where Homer's trying to tell Moe he lost himself a customer but Moe can't hear him over the millions of new customers swarming to him.
its not really about "i hope noone plays" im just stating flaws.
@@SoftwareNeos Eh, you're explaining your biases is probably better way to frame it. "Flaws" are a little bit of a reach, especially we look at your argument for "more gimmicks" _(like Rushdown Revolt or Rivals of Aether)_ or how casuals might get turned off by high APM mechanics like Wave-dashing and they should "Ignore the casual audience because it's not going to change whether they win or lose".
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is the *highest selling fighting game of all time* , the latest Street Fighter & Tekken are sill trying to reach their *week one* sales after both being released for months. The way you're framing this video makes it sound like its a huge failure, without offering much in the way of constructive feedback other than mirroring less successful IP's, instead of integrating it into the existing systems, while still appealing to a casual audience _(which is why the game sells so well in the first place)_ .
"The *worst* online of any smash and perhaps of all available current fighting games."
could honestly just end the vid right there and it would still be 100% correct.
Afi and galu: the greatest thing to ever happen to platform fighters
"Why can Sora side B and then up B and vice visa but my boy Ganondorf can't?"
It's because Ganondorf is a villain, the same thing happens to Wolf. Fox and Falco can side B + up B (well they can't Up B + Side B since up B puts you in free fall) but Wolf can't side B + up B.
About parry. Ultimate actually IMO has one of the best implementation of parry of any FG. Parry is not a bad mechanic like in most FGs, its just polarizing. The problem it creates is that since its always frame 1 it is always the best option. So if your opponent is parrying even 20% of the time theres no counter play. Like EndingWalker and Kakeru in SF6
In Ultimate parry is not frame 1, but its still over powered since most moves are minus on shield and parry gives you an additional 3f to punish, you have to be ready for it.
Most FGs make parry the answer to everything without weaknesses like SF6.
About hero. It rewards players like that to help casuals and in competitive play it compensates for his lack of fair, bair, and grab. Trust me im a hero main. You have to be outplaying your opponent so much most of the match. Hero is a low mid tier character that has rock lee shackles on.
G&W 9 is not a problem, G&W is the problem since hes top tier in this game.
DLC are in late dev cycle so they get more time, hence all the mechanics.
Lemme come up with 10 things I HATE in Smash Ult that need IMMEDIATE fixing:
-Air Dodge SD : Sakurai....Why TF do like 90% of characters lose a stock and often the match if they SD *O N C E* away from the stage?! Get rid of 80 frames of end-lag cuz that is just shitty
-Byleth: Why is it that this character's bow goes thru EVERYTHING and is THIS fast?? Nair is annoying af, and this bitch is just invincible with the recovery. In fact most of the aerials have a ton of priority for 0 reason, and with most the moves having beyond mid-range coverage makes him/her not fun AT ALL to fight.
-Belmont recovery: It's as bad as Little Mac's for 0 reason. I dont even play them and I feel sorry for players that pick them.
-WoL: 0 Spirits radar, same 7 gimmick fights on repeat, very few cutscenes, very little character-to-character interactions, no warping, very generic story, underutilized character abilities for most of the playable cast, need i go on?
- Online: I STILL get random 4 player matches, tourneys are a joke, and for the love of god Sakurai....FIX YOUR SHITTY NETCODE!!! NO ONE WANTS TO HOP ONLINE FOR UNDERWATER MATCHES!!!
Echo Fighters: Greedtendo put in ZERO effort to de-cone characters, so most really are copypaste, when they really had a list of differences in the original game. (Looking at you DARK SAMUS)
- Sephiroth's speed & defense: Why TF is he so SLOW?! His run speed should be twice as fast, all of his sword attacks take a year to come out, and dies as fast as Pichu for literally Z E R O Reason!! We're talking about the dood that one-shotted the game's boss that no diffed the cast....And he gets THIS bad???
- Sonic neglect: Sakurai I dunno if you know this...But Sonic is a VERY versatile fighter. Lightspeed dash, Lightspeed attack, Sonic Wind, Chaos Control (we have time-stop attacks in the game, dont @ me), had bombs at one point, can send shockwaves, can- GIVE HIM MORE THAN SPIN ALREADY!! Put more dam Sonic characters too. They're far more recognized than other IPs.
- Load times: When we're reaching Sonic 06 levels of long load times, that proves how Little the game is optimized, ESPECIALLY when booting the game.
-Plz PLZ fix recoveries. Pyra shouldnt die if she's an inch away the ledge, Mythra should reach if she's two ft under the ledge to have average recovery, Why tf doesnt Ridley have a diagonal recovery and can only go in 4 directions? Ik he has a good double jump, but give Ness a normal recovery so he's not so predictable offstage. PLZ fix Chrom's SHITE recovery, literally the worst in the game since he dies if he's an inch away from the ledge (and counter-gimping him isnt fun to do/watch).
- Fake Zoom-In Deaths: I cant tell you how often I see these. Sometimes 3 times or MORE in a match.
- ACTUAL Patching: For a game that has list upon list of patches....Imagine if they actually mattered, to yknow....FIX THE PROBLEMS ABOVE!!! Instead of ""you now do .000002 less damage" "you now do a breeze's worth less of knockback". How about.....GIVE characters moves to be better.
Pretty sure in melee you go into free fall just after id say good thing its 80 frame
Also i agree wol sucks
On the other hand subsp-
@@L0veKarma you go into free fall in Melee when you air dodge yeah but I'm just talking about Smash Ult
@@kindasomeviews i think its not bad
Shouldnt be op to recover with it
@@L0veKarmait's only considered op when you can't prevent it. Like Fox and Falco are still interceptible when recovering
I always thought counterpicks were real in Smash 4. Melee was unbalanced. Brawl had tripping, and Ultimate had a bunch of DLC. RoA making wavedashing an even playing field unlike Melee is great. But to heck with the fundamentals sometimes because there's no attack triangle. Smash is great but the characters ruin most of it.
Tripping wasn't that big
@@luckymanx2978 But somehow Meta Knight was.
@@ArtisanAspirationWorks yes but you didn't saying anything mk
@@luckymanx2978 Because personally, he's just another character to me. Somehow everyone else thought he was the best.
@@ArtisanAspirationWorks I mean he's the best but also the most fun
Why the reupload?
i honestly have no idea. maybe i was gonna upload this version but i noticed a problem so i delayed it. and now its here.
Day 1 of asking Neos to review rival 1 story
Shit
@@SoftwareNeosthere was a story?! XD
Personally, Ultimate is outdated. It needs a major update, it needs another fighters pass
Bro really is like those people that don't want the Mappa animators to go home.
After putting like 2000 hours into the game and switching to melee I’ve become sort of an ultimate hater. But even I think this video is just “my game is better than your game.” There are so many valid things you could criticize ultimate on like the horrible buffer and input lag but instead you just bitched about shit like luck based moves which literally affects 2 characters. We get it you wanna be different
Not everyone should make TH-cam videos
Not Everyone Should Comment either but here we are.
@@SoftwareNeosnot everyone is safe from this ratio 😭🙏
true
The title should be "how to have a bad opinion"
So true.
Why Does Every Smash Bros Comment have nothing to actually counter the video.
@@SoftwareNeos probably because we watched like the first minute
I personally think that you're missing the point of "why doesn't ultimate have wave dash" and you excuse it with "the casual player will never play with the pro player". Smash is supposed to be a game where any member of the family can play it, and the more advanced are the techniques, the higher is the skill gap between player and the most frustrating it becomes for new players to get into. Now imagine that a 11 y/o tries to play some random online matchups to have fun and all he finds and all he finds are guys that do things that he isn't even able to understand, so he will just never touch the game again.
In fact all that is the exact reason why smash is more popular than the classic fighting game, besides of being a massive crossover.
This is just the same (wrong) argument of "Think of the CASUALSSSSS :crying_face: "
Casuals are playing the game cause pikachu and mario are on it, and your entire argument would still exist even if wavedashing was gone because the skill gap is WAAAAAY MORE than just being mechanical, do you really think Brawl made it any easier for a casual to beat M2King? The answer is no. Melee was quite literally THE best selling game for the GameCube, explain to me how a vast skill gap will scare away casuals from smash when even the most competitive game in its series, was a best seller for its console?
"The higher skill gap between player and the more frustrating it becomes for new players to get into."
This applies to practically anything competitive, its like saying we need to dumb down basketball because I can't beat a professionally paid player.
@@Krona-fb4dn ofc someone that that play the game for fun will never be able to win a game agaisnt someone that practice seriously daily, but I think even you know that the arguments that you gave are stupid.
Melee was a game realized in 2001, no online, and the only way to play to play with someone else is with another person in local multipleyer. Melee has a lot of technices, but if nobody you play with know of their existence or don't know how to use them, then is a more fair game.
Brawl is a similar story, is the game more anti-competitive in the whole series, but the online was overall bad, and people was still mainly playing in local multiplayer.
Now, throw any of this casual players to play on Slippy or Rivals of Aether? In my case I only play Rivals and everyone that gets into the game has alredy know how to play smash to a certain level, but imagine that someone that has never played a smash game in his life go and tries some online matchups online? It will only get frustrated by the amount of times he would be losing over and over. In smash the basic the only thing you need to know to play is how move, how make every attack, and how use you Up b or Side b to recover, but if you keep adding mechanics that keep making that the skill gap is wider, your new players will get frustrated and won't wan to play the game anyomore by how hard is to get into.
In fact, this is the exact same thing that happened to Neos but at a lower lever, he thought RIvals was because the only way to win was camping and when some guys told him that he was wrong he deletd the video, and apologized saying that he regrets of doing that video, and all was just a matter of skill issue.
In fact, now that I remember, the main objetive of rivals 2 was making a game easier for new people to get into. And exact same thing happened with Guilty Gear Strive- and Street fighter 6, they made a game easier to get into and now their game is funnier, have a bigger player base, and have players of all level enyoing the game.
So in short words if you make a make with mechanics easier machanics, you'll have more people exited to get into the game and more people will want to get into, ofc there will always players better than other, and that's nothing you can do about it, but is about make the game closer for someone that has played 20 hours to someone that has played 50 hours.
Idk if I made my point clear, but I wish I did, tbh I currently don't play smash bros neither, I enjoy of faster passed games, but the main objetive of smash is making a game where is easy to new player to get into, and if you keep adding mechanics that make the job harder, your game will have a lower amount of players.
@@jhoan9728 Again, you're linking mechanical skill to the same as dedication. The two are distinct. In addition a person who is 'getting dumpstered' online can just as easily start to improve or have fun with what they're doing. Lowering the skill gap for players has not had a good history with any fighting games, not just Smash. th-cam.com/video/iSgA_nK_w3A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Core-AGaming
Fairly noteworthy example of "lowering the skill gap" is by adding lag and reducing input accuracy needed to actually do a combo (often to the point that in comparison to past games it looks like you're just mashing.)
Also, you're confused and talking about having a *Low Skill Floor* (barrier/required skill for basic entry), NOT a skill gap. Lowering the skill floor is vastly different than lowering the skill gap, since nothing is stopping a game with an easy entry being insanely hard to master/difficult at top level or having mechanical complexity.
The point of "they made a game easier to get into and now their game is funnier, has a bigger player base, and have players of all level enyoing the game" is moot since this applies to *new* games, which results in recency bias regardless of how good or bad it is. More people always flock and play the newer game. Would strive be more popular if it came out before Xrd?
@@Krona-fb4dn ...but....you do dumb down baseball when kids play it, it's call *Soft Ball* & *Little League* .
Also, Smash Ultimate dwarfs *every other fighting game in sales* , even SF6 & Tekken are trying to get to their week one sales after months of being released. I'm not sure what your point is other than _"Wave Dashing _*_can_*_ work in a fighting game"_ which it totally can, but I don't think it's a necessary mechanic to be competitive or successful. Multiversus & Melee both have it, but they're _wildly different_ in effectiveness (such as Superman or Space Animals/Luigi in either game as really good examples of it being stronger than most of the cast).
I'll be honest, it's a cool movement mechanic, but I don't even think it's half of why Melee's movement is so interesting to watch, save for some characters.
@@nicholasrolison926 I never said that its needed to be successful? My argument was that its not a good idea to gut out competitive features of a game for the sake of appealing to casuals/trying to make casuals better, they're gonna play regardless cause its smash. NOT "smash needs wavedashing to be successful"
Also tbf, casual =/= children. Part of the reason I think fighting games can be so cool is that age isn't as strong of a factor in it as you may think.
I entirely disagree with this notion that Smash is as popular as it is simply due to it being "the easiest" to play. It glosses over the fact that:
1) The switch was a wildly successful console even before Ultimate
2) Smash has ALWAYS been a top ten seller on every nintendo console its been on, Ultimate obviously continued this trend
3) Nintendo has strong IP and brand recognition from consumers
4) Ultimate was advertised to be bringing back *every* smash character that's been in the game and then showcased Ridley, as to say "Yes, we added the character that Sakurai deliberately and openly said 'no' to" right at the end in the same reveal
5) Smash as a franchise was nearly 2 decades old, its not exactly new and even the Wii U managed to pull in pretty sizeable sales for Smash 4
Sure, it helps smash that its 'somewhat' easier than other fighting games for a brand new person to pick up, but I think saying Smash would suddenly gatekeep massive audiences simply for having more mechanical complexity for a fun competitive landscape.
Tbh ultimate is the best platform fighter game imo, im not that good at mashing or wavedashing, i play competitively, i cant help that my fingers dont move that fast, wavedashing would just make it harder for people whose fingers dont move at light speed, characters do have gimicks, steve existing is a gimick, also arsen is pretty easy to beat atleast for sonic, just run, shield, or wait a second before letting the fsmash rip when you can just, read the counter after the 1st of 2nd time
Yikes, another "DLC privilege" truther.
“I hate smash cause *of small nitpicks* it’s such a horrible and boring game”
I wouldnt say nitpicks
“Guys I don’t like smash and I think it fell off cause I like a different game and people aren’t allowed to enjoy games I see as inferior”
Smash Fans can never actually tell me how i am wrong.
@@SoftwareNeos They arent saying you are wrong, they are saying that the video has nothing to do with the title and that you are only giving your personal opinions without explaining anything in a subjective matter. Sponge dude explains it pretty well.
@@hope8097 The opening line is "Why I don't play smash bros anymore", I think if you take a problem with the fact that its personal opinions after "Why *I don't* " then its just on you.
could the title be better? Probably but oh well, going after what a video is called instead of anything the video actually discusses is just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Ignorant Smash like U always seeing the series as perfect in every way will never not be annoying 🙄
@ that’s not even what I said lmao I never said it was perfect 😭 u just making up stuff to be mad at it’s so sad