I don't play tandem characters but I love the ones with both characters out at the same time because when you play a character with big hitboxes it feels great to smack both of them at the same time. It is the best feeling ever.
@@SoftwareNeos Like I have said before I played Mii Sword fighter in ultimate and hitting a blurring blade off the stage on both of them was always absolutely amazing.
@@SoftwareNeosI mean having found my main in sf6 I did realize I basically made Smash bros e.honda which I never realized till then so apparently I just introduced platform fighter people to a hell everyone else knew very well.
The reason why Sheik and Zelda were separated in Sm4sh was because of hardware limitations. The 3DS wasn't able to have Zelda and Sheik swap between each other, so the concept was scraped. (Same with Samus/ZSS... and Pokémon trainer... and ice climbers) It's a bit of a shame, but we got bouncing fish and Phantom out of it, so im not too disappointed. Also, you might have switched Pyra and Mythra's names up several times.
I've always liked this archetype, it's really cool how one moment you can be a certain character then the next you switch to another, I especially love how Pokémon Trainer and Pyra & Mythra execute it as well
@@SoftwareNeos mood hehe one manga an anime that has so much content for a fighting game is AirGear the combat system is based around air manipulation an Rollerblading tricks
Rivals of aether workshop has quite a few good tandem characters with the best one by far being Plusle and Minun. Zetta has a vid going through their moveset it your intrested
This reminds me of an idea I had for a plat fighter based on one of my favorite anime, Madoka Magica (weird combo, but hear me out). It’s mobile game, Magia Record, introduced a trio of characters who kinda played the role of a starter trio (same elements with the same super effectiveness, work as tutorial characters of sorts, etc), so I had the idea that they’d be the Pokemon Trainer of the game (the same elements even work for more or less the same functions: grass for zoning, water for combos, fire for heavy weight). But Magia Record also has a mechanic where if you use one character enough in a fight, they can then forgo an attack to power up another character’s attack, which I imagined working as a meter that builds up as you’re using one character, then if it’s full you can swap to another character to power up their next special move. It’d encourage using each character equally to make optimal use of the meter mechanic, but wouldn’t actively punish you for sticking to your favorite of the three, unlike Brawl Trainer.
You could absolutely do an entire 2nd part on this topic with just the rivals workshop. Some of the puppet/tandem characters I have played from there have genuinely given me a headache after sets lol
Well made video but I disagree with points about Pyra and Mythra. Aspects like their poor safety on shield is a key aspect to knowing the matchup and means if you have a fast out of shield option, you can often punish them with characters that they destroy on paper like Snake and Bowser
While I agree with most of the points here, there are a few things that I disagree with First, this seems more like discussing two very separate character archetypes as if they’re the same. While they both play into a design of multiple characters in one, stance and form change characters, and duo or puppet characters are very different. These are very different character designs, and I don’t think discussing both of them as the two-in-one archetype works very well. Also, sheik and zelda feel weird discussing as a tandem character, as in the games where they were in the same character slot, they didn’t play like one (as you mentioned), and there’s just as many games where they actually aren’t tandem characters.
Tbf. Never said they were the same. I even implied it when talking about rosalina. I said she was a puppet character compared to everyone else. I wanted to talk about multiple characters in 1. Not just stance characters and others. If that was the case then id also have to talk about some characters like shulk. And... i dont really want to. Shiek is just a weird pick. If i talk about dual characters in plat fighters and dont AT LEAST mention them its just gonna be commenged about. Its why im getting so many comments about tom and jerry. They shouldve been in the list same as them. Basically. I know these are different designs and even say it. But i dont wanna talk about just stance characters like shulk. So... this video was made
So a little thing involving NASB 2: 1. SpongeBob is currently like at best a mid tier due to his low range, speed, and weak recovery being debilitating now that certain aspects of his combo game is worse. 2. Dagget is still clearly better than Norb, but recently top players like Locus have been showing the strengths of norb more often through the use of using daggets assists and his more consistent kill confirms.
There can be a lot of connections with stance characters in some of these guys like Pyra and Mythra. But for some characters i dont really think most qualify. A lot of them are entirely different characters not just a playstyle change.... or have 2 characters out there. Like rosalina and luma and ice climbers. They dont really Change into anything. They just have 2 characters out in the open to fight. Its one thing for Leo to have a playstyle change... its another if he always had a little guy that fought with him. Hell, even Rosalina and Luma are more akin to a puppet character rather than a stance. So trying to do a video about multiple character themed fighters and calling them "stance characters" doesnt really seem right. So i just made up the term to be safe. Plus... if we had to put actual stance characters i gotta talk about shulk. And I DONT CARE ABOUT SHULK
@@SoftwareNeosI do think Tandem makes sense for the vid, though I don't think being different characters really matters for being a stance character when normal fgs have Maids and a bunch other Melty teams who are counted as stance. Though you could separate them into a "tag" character category.
I play almost every character in Smash but for some reason Pyra & Mythra don't really excite me. It feels like all their moves can be found on other characters. It's nice to hear someone else is not so into them.
Saying pyra and mytraq have no weaknesses is stupid. Yeah they complete each other. They arnt the best in all situation. So the other one can come is and palate the other rone weakness. But that's the thing. You also complained about the fact there is no i'tresting way to switch. Or hapoenin when switching. But that's the point. The switching mechanic doesn't let them cancel every weakness they have. You can exploit pyra's slowness. You can also exploit mythras faqtfalling physics and bad side B.
Smash is conservative with their character designs? Lol Let me introduce you to fighter pass 2. And 1. And Rosalina and Luma. And bayonetta. OK it's more about smash having no general sicy mechanic. Like punching blocking and grabbing is not a mechanic. Movement isn't either if you just have jumps and runs and dodges. So smash only mechanics where really footstols, out of shield stuff, tech and Di. Maybe rage. Melee had more. But look at this. Smash is more conservative with its mechanics than it's characters. Mario is super simple because he punches and the game give him the tools to punch and avoid punches. No super bar. No drive rush. No cancel. Even a character like ruy feel simple despite not ebeineg simple at all. Plus smash even simpler because rare are the character that require to be skilled to just play. In other fighting games. You can't cheese you friend that play decently well for casuals, with a puppeteer you never played. In smash you can literaly play the hardest and most convoluted fighters as is. Not using their mechanics just their moves. They might be weaker. But considering how many character can't do combos longer than 3 hits. It's not a surprise if you just play well a character that you never play can let you win. Characters have weakness to counter their strength. So if they have a puppet like Luma. The character is less good at everything else not using Luma. But it's not an issue since the game is made in a way that let charavter be good even without combos. Every character has safe moves without crazy mechanics. Where as if you go to guilty gear with asuka. Or here zato. Let's just say all of your moves are unsafe on block, and you don't do damage without combos. Good luck fighting someone's that counter and do 3 moves combos. If you can pull off one good string with Eddie. Good for you. Now wait for the cooldown and get builied by someone that barely play better than you do. And has at least some ideas of how to use the roman cancels. Smash just let you use every character in their simplest form. And crazy mechanics are easy to grasp but have a lot of depths. Steeve block is mind boglingly innovative and all. But it's stupidly simple to get. Mine the ground, place the block. Now you might not do anything great with thoses. But if you just like steeve you are gonna be able to play the character witjout doing anything great with them. Plus it's mechanic aslo let him use other simpler moves. But steev blocks have so many intricacies and all. You can't deny this is complex. And smash really push character design to its limit. That the budget they have. They down play themselves because they have time to develop character that are almost pulled out of their base game. But easy to grasp and allow for great learning curves that goes really deep. And that striped down general mechanics is probably what let them do it.
Shouldve done this before. But anyone interested in the platform fighter iceberg. Just come in the discord and well talk
discord.com/invite/5WYX6mGRZw
I don't play tandem characters but I love the ones with both characters out at the same time because when you play a character with big hitboxes it feels great to smack both of them at the same time. It is the best feeling ever.
Bowser Mains Will Definitely agree
@@SoftwareNeos Like I have said before I played Mii Sword fighter in ultimate and hitting a blurring blade off the stage on both of them was always absolutely amazing.
@@UsingGorillaLogicYou are a monster
@@SoftwareNeosI mean having found my main in sf6 I did realize I basically made Smash bros e.honda which I never realized till then so apparently I just introduced platform fighter people to a hell everyone else knew very well.
@@UsingGorillaLogici believe that the dragon in "combo breakers" will be like that archetype. So hopefully we get more news from it
The reason why Sheik and Zelda were separated in Sm4sh was because of hardware limitations.
The 3DS wasn't able to have Zelda and Sheik swap between each other, so the concept was scraped. (Same with Samus/ZSS... and Pokémon trainer... and ice climbers)
It's a bit of a shame, but we got bouncing fish and Phantom out of it, so im not too disappointed.
Also, you might have switched Pyra and Mythra's names up several times.
I also said "Starlow" for luma instead. Guess i was thinking about Bowsers Inside Story.
And screwed up Norberts name a few.
THE PROFESSIONAL YAPPER IS BACK.
More Content on the way...
Hopefully
Tandem Characters.
Certainly more graceful then Multi-Characters IMO.
I've always liked this archetype, it's really cool how one moment you can be a certain character then the next you switch to another, I especially love how Pokémon Trainer and Pyra & Mythra execute it as well
Honestly my favorite kind of fighters.
People are definitely more into big bodies... but tandem fighters can be really cool to see
One thing I do from time to time is think up movesets for cartoon characters I know half of them end up just being tandem lolz @@SoftwareNeos
@@senritsujumpsuit6021when i think about characters.... its always a big body. I hate it
@@SoftwareNeos mood hehe
one manga an anime that has so much content for a fighting game is AirGear the combat system is based around air manipulation an Rollerblading tricks
Rivals of aether workshop has quite a few good tandem characters with the best one by far being Plusle and Minun. Zetta has a vid going through their moveset it your intrested
norbert is so slept on man no wonder they kept buffing him, bro is op when you play him right
This reminds me of an idea I had for a plat fighter based on one of my favorite anime, Madoka Magica (weird combo, but hear me out). It’s mobile game, Magia Record, introduced a trio of characters who kinda played the role of a starter trio (same elements with the same super effectiveness, work as tutorial characters of sorts, etc), so I had the idea that they’d be the Pokemon Trainer of the game (the same elements even work for more or less the same functions: grass for zoning, water for combos, fire for heavy weight). But Magia Record also has a mechanic where if you use one character enough in a fight, they can then forgo an attack to power up another character’s attack, which I imagined working as a meter that builds up as you’re using one character, then if it’s full you can swap to another character to power up their next special move. It’d encourage using each character equally to make optimal use of the meter mechanic, but wouldn’t actively punish you for sticking to your favorite of the three, unlike Brawl Trainer.
Great video would love to see you talk about other archetypes in platfighters
Id love to. I dont know many archetypes though
As Ice climber player I agree with your opinions about them and it’s cool seeing other tandem characters
In retrospect. I should give them more credit
Rushdown Revolts Tandem duo have do many facanating plays you can pull off seeing the multiple setups is insane
You could absolutely do an entire 2nd part on this topic with just the rivals workshop. Some of the puppet/tandem characters I have played from there have genuinely given me a headache after sets lol
Well made video but I disagree with points about Pyra and Mythra. Aspects like their poor safety on shield is a key aspect to knowing the matchup and means if you have a fast out of shield option, you can often punish them with characters that they destroy on paper like Snake and Bowser
Thats fine. I just wish there were more things to make it interesting.
should’ve included Tom & Jerry
Never played them. I only got around to play Wonder Woman
@@SoftwareNeos Tom and Jerry are pretty much like Rosalina. A puppet character
While I agree with most of the points here, there are a few things that I disagree with
First, this seems more like discussing two very separate character archetypes as if they’re the same. While they both play into a design of multiple characters in one, stance and form change characters, and duo or puppet characters are very different. These are very different character designs, and I don’t think discussing both of them as the two-in-one archetype works very well.
Also, sheik and zelda feel weird discussing as a tandem character, as in the games where they were in the same character slot, they didn’t play like one (as you mentioned), and there’s just as many games where they actually aren’t tandem characters.
Tbf. Never said they were the same. I even implied it when talking about rosalina. I said she was a puppet character compared to everyone else. I wanted to talk about multiple characters in 1. Not just stance characters and others.
If that was the case then id also have to talk about some characters like shulk. And... i dont really want to.
Shiek is just a weird pick. If i talk about dual characters in plat fighters and dont AT LEAST mention them its just gonna be commenged about. Its why im getting so many comments about tom and jerry. They shouldve been in the list same as them.
Basically. I know these are different designs and even say it. But i dont wanna talk about just stance characters like shulk. So... this video was made
That Unova Elite 4 theme slaps hard!
Its pretty good
So a little thing involving NASB 2:
1. SpongeBob is currently like at best a mid tier due to his low range, speed, and weak recovery being debilitating now that certain aspects of his combo game is worse.
2. Dagget is still clearly better than Norb, but recently top players like Locus have been showing the strengths of norb more often through the use of using daggets assists and his more consistent kill confirms.
Honestly they need to give pyra more kill moves
1:44 What? You start with Mythra to build damage and combo better than use Pyra for easy kills
Yeah.... but its not really a weakness.
Tandem isn't a term.
There's swap characters and puppet characters
Swap Characters isnt even a term either... so... idk what you want from me.
Is there any reason you call them Tandem Characters Vs. the colloquially agreed upon FG term Stance Character?
There can be a lot of connections with stance characters in some of these guys like Pyra and Mythra. But for some characters i dont really think most qualify. A lot of them are entirely different characters not just a playstyle change.... or have 2 characters out there. Like rosalina and luma and ice climbers. They dont really Change into anything. They just have 2 characters out in the open to fight. Its one thing for Leo to have a playstyle change... its another if he always had a little guy that fought with him.
Hell, even Rosalina and Luma are more akin to a puppet character rather than a stance. So trying to do a video about multiple character themed fighters and calling them "stance characters" doesnt really seem right. So i just made up the term to be safe.
Plus... if we had to put actual stance characters i gotta talk about shulk. And I DONT CARE ABOUT SHULK
@@SoftwareNeosI do think Tandem makes sense for the vid, though I don't think being different characters really matters for being a stance character when normal fgs have Maids and a bunch other Melty teams who are counted as stance. Though you could separate them into a "tag" character category.
Honestly I would've put tandem characters closer to puppet characters than stance but that's per individual character for sure
I play almost every character in Smash but for some reason Pyra & Mythra don't really excite me. It feels like all their moves can be found on other characters. It's nice to hear someone else is not so into them.
W ass video and I wanna help with the Iceberg vid too
Cant wait
32:00 💀
I am surprised u used rosy over someone like catdog
Cat dog.... i almost completely forgot. Ill be honest.
But now that you mention it... THEY ARE SO STRANGE....
My bad
Saying pyra and mytraq have no weaknesses is stupid. Yeah they complete each other. They arnt the best in all situation. So the other one can come is and palate the other rone weakness.
But that's the thing. You also complained about the fact there is no i'tresting way to switch. Or hapoenin when switching. But that's the point. The switching mechanic doesn't let them cancel every weakness they have.
You can exploit pyra's slowness. You can also exploit mythras faqtfalling physics and bad side B.
...what about tom and jerry?
I havent played all the characters in multiverses. I pretty much only played wonder woman
Smash is conservative with their character designs? Lol
Let me introduce you to fighter pass 2. And 1. And Rosalina and Luma. And bayonetta.
OK it's more about smash having no general sicy mechanic. Like punching blocking and grabbing is not a mechanic. Movement isn't either if you just have jumps and runs and dodges.
So smash only mechanics where really footstols, out of shield stuff, tech and Di. Maybe rage. Melee had more.
But look at this. Smash is more conservative with its mechanics than it's characters. Mario is super simple because he punches and the game give him the tools to punch and avoid punches. No super bar. No drive rush. No cancel. Even a character like ruy feel simple despite not ebeineg simple at all.
Plus smash even simpler because rare are the character that require to be skilled to just play. In other fighting games. You can't cheese you friend that play decently well for casuals, with a puppeteer you never played. In smash you can literaly play the hardest and most convoluted fighters as is. Not using their mechanics just their moves. They might be weaker. But considering how many character can't do combos longer than 3 hits. It's not a surprise if you just play well a character that you never play can let you win.
Characters have weakness to counter their strength. So if they have a puppet like Luma. The character is less good at everything else not using Luma. But it's not an issue since the game is made in a way that let charavter be good even without combos. Every character has safe moves without crazy mechanics.
Where as if you go to guilty gear with asuka. Or here zato. Let's just say all of your moves are unsafe on block, and you don't do damage without combos. Good luck fighting someone's that counter and do 3 moves combos. If you can pull off one good string with Eddie. Good for you. Now wait for the cooldown and get builied by someone that barely play better than you do. And has at least some ideas of how to use the roman cancels.
Smash just let you use every character in their simplest form. And crazy mechanics are easy to grasp but have a lot of depths.
Steeve block is mind boglingly innovative and all. But it's stupidly simple to get. Mine the ground, place the block. Now you might not do anything great with thoses. But if you just like steeve you are gonna be able to play the character witjout doing anything great with them. Plus it's mechanic aslo let him use other simpler moves.
But steev blocks have so many intricacies and all. You can't deny this is complex. And smash really push character design to its limit. That the budget they have. They down play themselves because they have time to develop character that are almost pulled out of their base game. But easy to grasp and allow for great learning curves that goes really deep. And that striped down general mechanics is probably what let them do it.