I get excited every time I see you post a new video. Something about your style of video, analysis on Overwatch 2 as someone with a lot of knowledge of the game while trying to avoid bias, it's really nice. I love seeing your channel grow, too, it's amazing to see. Love the vids, keep doing your thing
I do agree with you 100%. I would also like to point out (I think you hinted at it, but not fully dove into it), that its sort of the goal of video game devs to actually intentionally cause game imbalance to spice things up. League of Legends is, despite what many of its fans think, actually one of the better balanced games out there. There's very few champs that are truly unplayable, and there is a massive variety of characters in the highest ranks of competitive play; unlike in OW2 Season 1 where literally 40/50 of the top DPS players on the ladder had Sojourn as their most played character. Despite this, Riot Games intentionally causes imbalance in their game and makes significant changes to make things unique and interesting. Unlike sports who don't receive "development teams", people who play video games expect the experience to be different year to year in a live service model. And people when you don't update your game, generally speaking people tend to lose interest, even if its a perfectly balanced game where everything is equally viable. That being said, Blizzard tends to be worse than the industry standard when it comes to balance. They're better than Battlestate Games but the bar is 6 feet under at that point. A good example being the Sojourn "nerfs" which just ended up making her actually stronger in regards to her railgun awhile back, I think in January.
Trying to clarify all of this to the average player in a F2P environment, while also communicating "no right answers, but plenty of wrong ones" is haunting. This is a great breakdown with a lot of solid points. The lack of education/learning tools in the game for just baseline information really hampers a lot of the Devs ability to adjust the game and limits player ability to communicate what is wrong. It's a huge struggle within the community, despite the Devs trying to listen to feedback. I think there's some critical information around Design Structures (which are heavily embedded still in the original cast, much of which, was abandoned with the "DLC heroes") that could further clarify some of your points, but overall this video gets a ton of information across that should clarify for the playerbase at large. Great job!
One of the few things I've felt they did right was how the METAs feel in overwatch 2. Now, I don't know if it's because my skill is higher than my rank suggests, but I've had great success with heroes that, as far as I know, are off meta. Overwatch 1 felt like if I wasn't running meta, double shield would just show it's ugly head and shut me down... at least on DPS. I can finally climb on DPS for the first time in years, ESPECIALLY since queue times are far better. No more 10 minute DPS queues in PLAT
I would love a video on why Brigette was bad for the game from you tbh. I really loved playing her from the start and even after the buffs up until the release of OW2 and never really understood what made her bad that other heroes already had. I know that sounds like a low ranked take or whatever but I simply just don't remember how the game felt like 5 years ago and only remember liking how she played with the double tanks
I think it’s more about what she enabled - and that might be an interesting topic to discuss in the future in the future. In isolation, she was fine; the problem was that she was built to try to deal with the specific problem of dive being really strong by introducing a hero who could reliably mess up a bunch of the dive heroes, but in doing so, they undermined a lot of what had defined the game up until that point and led to the goats meta. She was also a bit of a symptom of the power creep of Overwatch, as new heroes had to bring something new and impactful to the game in order to be worth including but often end up becoming too impactful in the process. As well, original heroes had the advantage of being able to snatch up all the easy/straightforward concepts, leaving the more radical ones to the DLC heroes who might break the game with them. Brig’s probably the biggest offender there, but heroes like Sojourn and Kiriko are good recent examples of it too.
When talking about what kind of game Overwatch is, I remembered some old interviews on how Overwatch was meant to be: A. A tribute to 90s styled shooters. B. A more team-centric MOBA. I don't have any experience with MOBAs because I don't hate myself, but what I can say is that Overwatch misunderstands why classic fast-paced shooters were good in the first place. The appeal of 90s shooters is focused around map control of power positions, high speed expressive movement, and diverse aim types. While it checks the third box and you can make a bit of a case for it having importance on power positions, it utterly fails at the second, and actively goes against this principle with how many stun mechanics there are and the fact Blizzard keeps patching out movement tech. So if we take it from the mouth of the developers, Overwatch is fundamentally flawed. But if we take the more reasonable approach of ignoring this, we're back at square 1.
Lots of curry powder a dash of paprika garlic salt pepper little bit of water let simmer if not thick enough a little bit of corn starch or flower with cold water will thicken it up if this method is used season again but not as much you can ad vegetables of your choice but make sure to cook them up before adding water
Despite how disconnected I've been from OW2, I find myself watching all your videos so kudos on that. And being a hockey ref is so hilariously Canadian. Minor criticism: speaking speed feels a little fast? It made me actually check if the video wasn't at 1x, so it might be an issue for some people.
I do the same thing. Sometimes it's fine, but at other times (Maybe when the footage is sped up) the voice over seems to speed up just a tiny bit, too?
There's also another aspect of this that isn't super looked into, blizzard has a financial incentive to make their game "unbalanced", if the meta always stays the same, then there is absolutely no reason to continue to play once you've mastered (or been demolished by) that meta, having a meta gives players a reason to come back to the game, having to relearn the game means more hours played. This incentive is even bigger in overwatch 2 than overwatch 1, keeping players coming back for each season of the battle pass insures that they continue to make money, as opposed to overwatch 1, where blizzard simply made their money the moment someone buys the game, and all the time someone spends in the game is irrelevant to how much money they make (other than keeping the game active, which obviously incentivizes more players to try the game out, thus buying it) this topic is very interesting, as it's always on-going and will probably never end lol
Very quickly becoming my fav OW channel, so much more thoughtful and high effort than most everyone else. Worthwhile analogies, several new modes of analysis to me for understanding balance and viability. Jay3 did us so dirty by with the shouting-into-a-webcam meta if we could have had a decade of thoughtful content like this.
One other thing that makes balancing anything so hard is that strength is relative. If at the beginning of a games life Character A is 10% stronger than everyone else they will be meta but as the game becomes more balanced if they are only 1% stronger they will be meta. You can never truly make a balanced game like this, only close enough where the power levels are similar enough that no one cares.
Balancing games really isn't that hard. The problems emerge when developers try and ordain a meta, or make changes that undermine their original intent due to irrelevant concerns such as how fun the game is to watch as an esport. Overwatch has been in a balanced state very briefly a few years ago, but over time things have become more and more chaotic due to these issues. Things like the community deciding that stuns were an issue 4 years after launch demonstrate this perfectly. There were definitely issues with the game at launch; but decisions like role queue have compounded to break the game in ways that no amount of number tweaking could hope to fix. You just can't have Roadhog healing half his health back every 10 seconds with no way to interrupt him, it was designed for a game that just doesn't exist anymore. As bad changes compound, older players lose faith in the game, and newer ones are attracted in who like the new mechanics. So things can't even be reversed, even if ActiBlizz were capable of admitting they made a mistake.
Glad to have discovered your channel. It's good to see someone taking the time and effort to do effective deconstruction and analysis of interesting aspects of the game which are easy to gloss over or over-simplify. Your work is greatly appreciated!
Hey nice video. Enjoyed the intellectual aspect of approaching balance. Learned plenty things, especially about the definitions of polarization. It reminds me about Smash Melee and how a few fighters are considered competitively viable, but the game is advertised and balanced as a party game. Wasn’t till Smash 4 when they focused on including comp play, balancing from the top-down. Now more fighters can compete. IMO, OW2 has a different problem. Advertised as a comp heroes shooter, but from a dev video they state ”balanced around the average player”. I found this odd, and explains why a lot of strange balance decisions, polarizing metas popping up easily, and heroes losing viability up the skill bracket. Skilled players will optimize and find metas. Game gets boring or frustrating, devs are slow, indecisive, and contradicting. It appears that they don’t know what to focus on; a competitive or party game. Hopefully they find this video and come to a conclusion.
FOR YOUR VIDEO ON OMNICS: I agree that they are handled poorly, my main hope is that they will do something cool with what they have. I theorize it will be something like "gods have always existed, some have projected themselves by using naturally occurring hardlight, while some have remained dormant and inaccessible until humans created a vessel that these gods could communicate with/through." This is the only thing I can think of that makes sense at all; it explains not only the iris as a concept as well as the sudden sentience of omnics, but it also explains the shimada family and kiriko, plus how humans discovered hardlight and studied it.
While I agree on the most part, I have to disagree with the sentiment that there is nothing the playerbase can do / the meta is determined by the devs via balance patches. Balance patches do have the most immediate impact, but there are a thousand other variables that are equally important given enough time. How does the average player expect to approach a given game/map/encounter, what options haven't actually been properly considered due to old stigma, why is the meta the meta and what could counter it from there, and how do all of these things shift over time? Destiny 2 is my go to example for this. Maybe a year or two ago there was a massive change at the high end. At the time, the primary weapons of choice were hand cannons, ARs, and SMGs. Hand cannons have the ability to peak shoot and high burst, offering safety. ARs and SMGs, depending on the specific patch, were competing for the fastest ttk. At the high end, basically out of nowhere, single-shot grenade launchers took over. To make a long story extremely short, players got bored of the meta and realized "wait, I can one-shot people from behind cover". The playerbase was so focused on meta-chasing that they forgot to consider other variables, right up until a number of streamers got so sick of the meta they started exploring other options. As a playerbase we're mostly just a hivemind of idiots listening to other idiots, who think our 2 days and maybe a dozen hours on a patch make us experts on how the whole web of balance comes together, and as a result our perception of the meta ends up being small minded and short sighted. Given enough time though, our collective 2 braincells will almost inevitably figure something else out and shake up the game entirely, even if just out of boredom and frustration.
Maybe it's just me but I always thought that balancing in OW (and other games) should almost be a last resort. Take GOATS for example. Sure, GOATS was really dominate, but that's because people didn't really try hard enough to find a counter. I remember that the Shanghai Dragons and the Chengdu Hunters played some multi-DPS comps and they did pretty good against GOATS. The main reason GOATS was dominate was because it was easy (I think) and people didn't put the time into finding the counter when they could just scrim GOATS instead. I think my vision of OW is different from the dev's (this was something you said in the video, having different visions for the game). I always thought that OW should revolve around counter-picking and finding the best strategy to defeat your opponent, like a really complex rock paper scissors. I find flexibility to be one of the best virtues in this game, tbh. But the devs seem to want every hero to be viable event if you are playing directly into your counter, which I don't like. There's no meta in rock-paper-scissors, so I don't see why OW can't be like it. Anyways, good video as always. Your content is consistently amazing, I like how much thought you seem to put into your vids yet also not just saying you know the answers. Leaves room for discussion, which is good.
very engaging video as always! the topic of diversity within the game mechanics and how each hero changes dynamics is something that's been on my mind when uproar about feature removal starts getting thrown around. discord orb, blue beam, hack etc being removed almost always reads to me like a demand of 'equality' where your mechanical skill should matter more than how you interact with different variables within a high octane, high movement game where... honestly? your sense of what to do and quick ability to judge your next action counts for a lot more than most fps players are used to. sure, clicking heads wins games in the end, but what if you're stopped from clicking heads? what if you keep parking your ass into one spot, don't move, ignore footsteps and expect to be babysat through your entire play, get upset if you're anti'd, hacked or challenged with something outside of what you consider raw mechanical prowess, then why are you playing this game? no like, for real, why? if youre against a mercy pocket, why not ask one of your healers to stay with you for a bit to punish them, if you're confident you can win that 2v2? i'm mostly rambling here too, but it's been on my mind as well, and your videos help me bounce arguments off of my own thoughts so thanks for that.
Personally, Ow2 S3 is close to, if not, the closest time Overwatch has reached Multipolarity. Outside of 4 specific heroes (maybe more depending on who you ask), Ball for tank is incredibly hard to stop if he knows how to play around his team and seperate when needed (Yeatle in particular doesn't really suffer against sombra as an example). And the 2 snipers for dps. Widow and Hanzo, just having the ability to one shot, or the threat of landing one is enough to force people to play differently but isnt impossible to stop by out-aiming them or diving them with the entire team (hopefully, sucks if your team doesn't do this). And Kiriko, need I explain anything about her.
A bit of a fun fact, but this video script was actually initially written in the first couple weeks of Overwatch 2’s launch, and the first draft included an argument that basically boiled down to “The game feels fun right now because we’ve all had to re-learn how Overwatch works to such an extent that we’re not nearly as confident in setting metas in the standard competitive ladder, even if the pros have obviously developed more of a meta”. The whole point was going to be that because of how impactful the change from 6v6 OW1 to 5v5 OW2 was, it forced us into a state of multipolarity we hadn’t seen in a long time, and that I was worried that the other shoe was inevitably going to drop and we’d see a return to more rigid metas. The whole video was going to be a lot more of a “Please learn from OW1 and don’t fuck this up, Blizzard - you’ve got a good thing going right now” vibe, but then it got shelved for a while because I wanted to wait until the meta had time to run through the cycle at least once before making it lol
@@TheViveros Honestly speaking as a tank main (mostly rein and winston main with a zarya/sigma flex, and picked up orisa since she was fun in s1) I didn't have any issues adjusting. Had more fun due to not being constantly cc'ed, god was it annoying to deal with Hog Orisa Brig Ana Cree as Rein. As for rigid metas. S2 in particular was incredibly rigid, to the point of there was only 1 flexible pick. Tank was either Orisa vs Orisa, Hog vs Orisa, or Hog vs Hog, there wasnt anything else. And the only reason Orisa was up there was cuz she could actually just not let Hog do anything. Dps was just Sojourn and anyone else you wanted with a Mercy pocket, Kiriko for main support. Only the remaining dps slot was even considered flexible. At least blizzard seems intent on listening to community feedback, even tho they have a few misses every patch. Like Buffing Mercy pocket heals to the point it becomes near impossible to finish off a target as most tanks, despite the main issue being damage boost Sojourn. Sojourn just still generally being a strong character, people just seem to not want to play her right now. No cap she can still dominate games. The doom buff into a harder nerf is egregious, they made one of the worst tanks into a tank that literally can press buttons off cooldown and would never die into a tank that was worse than his initial rework. I just genuinely pray that they stop missing so hard on some of these buffs or nerfs.
Ball is probably the hardest character for blizzard to balance in the game. Even when he was ‘underpowered’ before s3, very good ball players (especially Chazm) could still carry a lobby with him, whereas anyone playing ball basically below GM would basically be throwing. When blizzard tried to buff ball to improve him in the lower ranks, he instantly became a problem in the higher ones, despite being in a good place elsewhere. Chazm went from like #150 tank player to literally #1 in like two weeks.
This is a really great discussion on meta, especially when it comes to how it's enacted in Overwatch. My favourite part of the video was watching your Sombra gameplay of struggling to find any health packs to sit at on the second point of Circuit Royale
im gonna be honest i didnt even consider the fact that something as simple as slightly nerfing the damage of a hero causes a complete tidal wave of meta shifts... honestly one of the things im most looking foward to now that i've returned to the game is being around when the next hero comes, because the last time i've experienced meta changes with new heros was when echo came around... and even at that point i was pretty burnt out. recently i havent really been able to experience a new hero, i mean sure coming back to the game with sojourn, junker queen, kiriko, ramattra, and lifeweaver has made the game super interesting again, and has definitely helped me get back into playing overwatch (i'm literally practicing sojourn lmao), but i wasnt around for those heroes releases. guess i can only hope that i dont get absolutely demolished by the tidal wave of meta changes from a new hero coming out... oh yeah- cool video by the way!
I've always had an idea on how to fix alot of the problems that spawn from the dps category, like sombra, sym and torb. Sombra is prob the best example but imagine if there was a support that could use a much more flexible version of hanzo sonar arrow? The biggest problem sombra has is A) she bullys supports and b) lower ranks dont work well together so she can just run lower lobby's with just abit of game knowledge so imagine a support that could completely shut down sombra like sombra completely shuts down ball or echo, bascially the major problem rn is they dont wanna have a heavy counter based game but they also wanna leave heros like sombra and sym in who just hard counters some other stuff, if something is gonna hard counter then it needs a hard counter as well and atm support have very few tools to counter most the dps roster, look at paladins because its prob handled gimmicky abilities like invis and turrets 10x better then overwatch as they have a shop mechanic that allows you to buy illuminate for invis and wreaker for turrets which gives the player individual control over countering some of these things but overwatch doesnt have a in game shop for perks, instead it has a hero swap mechanic so instead of nerfing and changing these controversial heros, add ones so other people can actually have counter play. Or just straight up rework the playstyle (not hero) to take away all major controversial stuff, and what I mean by that is instead of tightening the gameplay loop sombra uses with cool downs and time out abilities, you just outright change it by removing abilities like invis. Because they cant have both and atm it feels like they wanna leave the busted abilities in while giving very little counterplay outside of working as a team which overwatch will never have much teamwork for the average player and ignoring the average player is stupid as they make up majority of the game. I'm a masters level player on console (except tank where I suck 😂) so most these heros dont bother me much but I do have plenty of friends that are prob hard stuck silver for life that hate the game already due to just how unfun these abilities are to play into as they have no individual counterplay. A good way to put it is we make sports child friendly for the kids playing these sports in school for a reason, you cant just tackle people or start fights like in pro hockey, these kids need to have the game easier for them because if the kids lose interest in the sport then goodluck keeping the sport alive for the next generation and it's the same with ow where you cant just ignore the kids trying to learn the game because eventually they're gonna get hit in the head one to many times and say fk this sport 😂.
i don't know if this would help balance, much. but i really wish blizzard would bring the PTR back. they could release faster updates and just try out some crazy concepts. like different number of teammates per team, different abilities, different effects of said abilities, or extra/different roles, etc... there wouldn't even be that much pressure on them when a change sucks, and when it's good, they can just introduce it into the live game.
Brilliant channel I always watch all of your videos and they’re all great, the music, the commentary, gameplay, subject, and your voice all make the video great, thanks for making content
Ok this video was really fun to watch, but the self promo was honestly the most convincing one I’ve heard in a while!!! Like yeah I wanna hear all of those videos get made! Genius ngl
I really enjoyed this video, good job! I'd actually be interested to see why Overwatch is so different compared to other popular games too like League of Legends or even Overwatches predecessor team fortress 2. Maybe it's just me, but those games, despite having similar mechanics or gameplay elements, don't seem as oppressive when it comes to the meta or balance.
-___- Several paragraph response got deleted (Like it never existed) by TH-cam. This is the second time it's happened on various other videos now. TL:Don't want to try to rewrite it all A: People absolutely will find the "Best" way to do something, especially when Money is on the line. B: If there's a Best way, then there needs to be counters to combat best play. Unless Best Play is the way the dev team sees the game. EX: If Sojourn is very very strong, they must want her to be very very strong because they haven't adequately nerfed her, but instead nerfed Mercy for enabling her to be Even Stronger? THough not in a way that would make Sojourn any less strong, just in a way that makes it easier to kill the enabler? Because that's fun? Go figure. C: If the "Best Way" isn't what is intended, and they don't want hard counters in the game "Balance" updates need to come out a lot more often and a lot harder. Though the way they've dealt with Sojourn makes me think that none of that will happen and that the game being unbalanced it sort of what they want.
In a game no matter how balanced a Meta will form or somthing will have a competive edge like in most turn based games like chess the player who goes first has a advantage And if a game like overwatch has perfect balance the meta will just become the easiest heros to get value on cause there's less risk for the same reward Creating a perfectly balanced game is impossible what the goal should be is a constantly shifting meta but in a way that keeps as much of the roster at least viable
It wouldn't be hard if they actually let roles be actually roles. Tanks should tank and playstyle should revolve around damage mitigation and crowd control, not dps. Support should well support, buff, debuff, and heal, not do crowd control or dps. And dps should actually do dps. But they won't do this because they want money .
Love this analysis, and the breakdown of polarity and what that means for balance is a very interesting and insightful look into the topic. I would love to see this same type of logic used to analyze Smash Melee's meta. The way that Fox seems to have a Unipolarity in the meta but how even then he doesn't win an overwhelming majority of tournaments, and how characters like Yoshi with Amsa and recently Shiek can still break through that Unipolarity and make the top character seem incredibly fallible. All while the game has never had any direct changes caused by the game actively changing, only through community and player action.
HELLO???? 999??? OH MY GOD I WAS JUST ENJOYING YOUR CHANNEL BECAUSE OF YOUR INTEREST OVERWATCH STUDIES AND I HEAR MY FAVORITE GAME MENTIONED? WOOOOWW what a jumpscare! I might have to actually join just to represent haha. Everyone you should play Zero Escape!!! Thanks for the fascinating video game study by the way!! I'm so glad someone out here is trying to bring more rigorous scientific assessments to my favorite medium!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I actually have my whole 999 playthrough up on my VODs channel if you wanna see me lose my mind trying to play it lol, it was a good time and I'm excited to play through some more of the series.
I really enjoyed the video and think you communicate the topic extremely well, I do however have 1 tiny bit of criticism. Could you talk a teensy bit slower? That's it, I will share this video with my friends to see what they think :D
I probably would've watched this video anyway because it's an interesting/relevant topic to me, but I have to say, the Overwatch roster participating in a Danganronpa trial is a very intriguing thumbnail.
Thank you! I don’t really know what made me think to do the thumbnail that way, it makes absolutely no sense but I love it. I’ve been imagining the heroes in a trial doing a nonstop debate about balance changes and laughing to myself for days lol
I appreciate it! I'm going to be leaving it to people with channel memberships just because that's one of the perks promised to them, but the poll will be open for a couple weeks in case you decide to join down the road.
@@TheViveros yeah, global politics are a super interesting aspect of gaming that are often overlooked and you seem like you know a lot more about me on that subject, so I'd love to hear what you have to say on that.
Your contents are always interesting, but I feel sometimes that you talk too fast and is hard to follow. It is kinda like the video its at x1.25 (Don't know if it's just a feel or it's actually accelerated on purpose, but some pauses would feel nicer n.n)
I get that, but personally I liked it. When so often TH-cam videos drag with slow narrators and long winded explanations, it can turn a topic which could be normally a 10 minute video into a 45 minute video. And with only so many hours to watch videos, I do appreciate that he attempts to be concise and to the point with his ramblings.
@@Fantasia-em5rs You can also be more effective by being actually more concise and using less words, rather than speaking so fast/accelerating the audio. I think that would help his channel more.
It’s definitely an interesting subject field, but I don’t know if I’m familiar enough with fighting games to speak with any authority on it if I’m being honest. I don’t play many of them, and when I do it’s very casual, so in the interests of not embarrassing myself and getting roasted by the people who know what they’re doing I’ll probably stay out of their lane for the time being haha
I'm just gonna say imo OW balance is bad (maybe unstable is a more accurate word) because good competitive foundations were never really implemented or properly thought about in great detail with the game's inception. I didn't play OW in the early days but from what I've heard there have been a lot of mechanics (like being able to pick any hero including duplicates on the same team) that just don't seem very competitive at all. I just feel like not starting off with a good foundational understanding of how a game will play competitively when it comes to designing a competitive game, is a recipe for disaster and will lead to poor competitive integrity as we've arguably seen. (And I haven't watched the video yet but I'm excited to see what's said) I really liked that whole analogy thing even if I barely understood it 🤣🤣 Your take is a ton more nuanced than mine as well 😭👏
I have so many opinions about 999 that I’m *desperate* to talk about, the only reason it’s going into a poll rather than just being made as a normal video is because I don’t wanna unleash that on people unless it’s actually what they want from me lmao
@@TheViveros oh i definitely understand that. In my perception module in college we've touched on stuff like two-toned images (idk their actual name but the funyarinpa is an example of this) and prosopagnosia, and its taken all my will-power not to explain every single detail of zero escape to my friends who definitely wouldnt care LMAOOO
The prosopagnosia stuff was genuinely one of the most interesting twists in the game to me. There’s a lot of unnecessary over-complication in 999 that ended up feeling tedious, especially when you’re going for multiple endings, but I felt like that was a genuinely really smart element to incorporate in the narrative and it was worked into it pretty smoothly (at least compared to the stuff about the mummy, which made me want to pull my hair out lol)
@@TheViveros yea allice was... a part of the game... 999 is really good at setting up everything, despite how weird it is being dragged aside during a life or death situation to have ice-9 explained to you, I found everything really interesting! I love the Zero Escape series (and what Ive played of Uchikoshi's work) despite some of the bullshit he may throw at us, and I cant wait to see a potential video about 999 in the future!
@@TheViveros Do you have some way that I can use the overlay? Like, a PNG? I'm not even planning on streaming with it (i don't like streams in the first place lol), I honestly just want to overlay it onto my game because it looks cool. I also suck at graphic design, so I can't really make it myself, sorry. It just kind of reminds me a bit of TF2's HUDs, and I'm sometimes really sad that a huge customisation option like that was never implemented into OW; as I really, really loved how you could make custom HUDs in TF2. I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
I downloaded a free overlay package and then just colour-matched it to my in-game HUD colour. It only shows up in streams/recordings, not in-game, but the creator is a person named WinterSky on Twitter if you’d like to get them yourself!
0.75x speed makes this more listenable. I understand TH-cam doesn’t support long form content the same way it used to, but I feel there is no need to rush in a video like this…
In my defence I was trying to win a bet for 5 gifted subs if I could survive a match without dying, and I’d lost like 3 of those bets already by this point so I was being *stupid* cautious about it lmao
Not really, tbh. AI would first need a model to balance based off of, and even setting aside every other issue with AI, any attempt to create training material for a program would still run into the same problems as when humans try to balance it. The AI would still have to try to balance conflicting incentives and determine priorities, it would still have to deal with players working overtime to optimize outcomes, and it would have to do all of that without being able to actually play a game the way a human would. An AI doesn’t understand the challenges that come with a lot of mechanical skills, and so will interpret heroes on the extremes like Widowmaker or Mercy very differently than how they need to be understood for balance purposes.
@@TheViveros I agree that defining the desired outcome is absolutely the main problem with the AI approach. But I still think it could be an incredible tool in understanding how changes have impacted the entire roster of heroes. Sojourn getting a nerf to her max damage has a ripple effect on other heroes' viability like you mentioned. But how much? Like, exactly? Quantifiably? That's a question that AI can answer. Again, the main difficulty is in defining the unit, really. Balancing around win % is an obvious example of how that doesn't work and we've seen that fail before with the best example probably being Symmetra. I think pickrate (normalized per role) should probably be the stat used for making the game the most fun, diverse, and accessible. But I think a lot of people really enjoy having their main's time to shine.
The whole, let’s just remove them reminds me of aatrox from league, he was just flat out removed from the game and replaced, and his replacement better fits within the meta but there is no champion in league that fills the niche he did, so original aatrox mains forever hate riot and are salty about it, while yes it could be better for the game it also can fuck over a lot of players and create negative resentment
So while yes redoing sombra might fix some issues within her kit it’ll piss off sombra players and might create further balance issues in the future that people just haven’t thought of, it would be better to modify her to work more with the general flow that the game flows while keeping her unique rhythm rather than straight up change her kit or kill her character
Changing a hero's kit is definitely a case-by-case basis (the only people I see complain about the re-works are Doom players [and rightfully so :copium:]; the others seem pretty contempt with them). Current Sombra just doesn't work imo and will probably lead to some really aids meta issues if it doesn't get resolved. I'd honestly rather them make a mediocre rework (like doom lmao) to her and piss of the Sombra community than to leave her in her dysfunctional state. On another note, I will say that Moira's design is *_Exponentially_* worse and that the addition of her is just a net-negative to the quality of the game, but at least she's been easily the worst support in the game meta-wise.
This was one of my favourite thumbnails to make, and whenever I have a lot of fun with a thumbnail I *know* it’s gonna be an abomination lmao I’ll probably run another worst thumbnail poll tournament when I have enough new ones, but I bet this one will place high if I do
The idea came from making myself laugh imagining Tracer saying “But that was Akande’s lie!” in her best Kokichi impersonation and I think that says a lot about where I’m at mentally
Bruh that reaction to that one comment at the end of the video 😂😂 I like your content but damn bro that makes you look petty AF. They kinda have a point. Like I still watch you cause out of that type of content I think yours is the most well thought out, and most aware of your own biases. But that doesn't change that you do have your own biases, and much of your content can be deemed controversial takes on how blizzard could do their job better. Like that's an objective one at this point homie. I understand defending your point, but just shitting on someone who critiques you is kinda asinine... Like why shouldn't blizzard just do the same to you and tell you to go choke?? Lmao it comes across as very hypocritical and I'd get on top of that as it's a quick way to alienate your audience and make them displeased with how you carry yourself
You know what, I'm going to assume that this is a good faith comment, so let's go through what that commenter said specifically and I'll explain my reasoning in detail. The comment in question said "the videos you make just sounds like you complaining about ow and adding ur own twist on issues just for the sake of content". That isn't true. I'm not just complaining for the sake of content, I'm talking about a game I've spent a thousand hours on because I'm really invested in it and I think it's fun to talk about. If someone talks shit in the comments section, I'm absolutely allowed to push back. The commenter also said "I'd make a joke and say go work for blizzard so you can fix the game urself, but complaining about and milking it for content is easier right..... cuz nothing is ever good enuf for the ow community". Like I said in this video, if Blizzard wants me to fix their problems for them, they're welcome to pay me to do that - but until they're paying the bills, I don't understand why it's somehow my responsibility to do their jobs for them. I'm making videos talking about the game, and they're allowed to feel how they want to feel. There was also "See how you like it when ur work gets critiqued down to the bone based on inaccurate assumptions", which not only implies that I'm making my critiques on inaccurate assumptions, but also that people apparently never make bad-faith critiques of my work. Plenty of assholes in the comments put words in my mouth to get mad about, and big content creators have gone out of their way to misrepresent my videos to dogpile me. It's part of being online. At some point, you just deal with it. The last point was "If ur trying to sound smart on the channel then do glitch/bug analysis videos like Marblr or Not Muda instead of controversial takes and stuff that most people would consider being nitpicking at this point," and that's just a dumb argument. I'm not making content to try to sound smart, but also, I have no interest in being a Marblr clone. He does what he does, and I do what I do. Now, if Blizzard wants to, they can tell me to go choke - I've never said they can't or shouldn't push back against criticisms they get, so I don't understand how this is hypocritical. If people don't like my tone or my approach, fine, but don't call me a hypocrite when I haven't contradicted my own values. On top of that, I don't shit on people for critiquing me, and you can go through my comments on my videos to find me engaging with people who have good faith criticisms of arguments I make. But I don't understand why people think that talking shit about me, to me, in the comments sections of my videos, should be a protected space for them where I can't push back on it. If you think my videos are controversial, sure, but that isn't objective - it's a subjective assessment, and I don't try to be controversial with my videos. If this conduct is alienating to some people, honestly, fine. I don't want the kind of audience who thinks that a creator should be a punching bag. At the end of the day, I'm a human being too, and I get tired of people who talk to me like that. I have rules for commenting on this channel for a reason, and they're enforced for a reason. Good faith criticisms are more than welcome, but insults, deliberate misconstruing of my arguments, or outright putting words in my mouth are not. The channel rules are clearly communicated, and if someone chooses to break them, then they might just find themselves being put on blast for being an asshole. Hope that addresses your concerns.
I want to make a joke answer to this, but fully honestly, they’re in there because it helps establish a colour for the thumbnail. The text in my thumbnails always matches the border and usually compliments the general colours of the thumbnail, and it’s the easiest way to incorporate the main colours into the actual body of the thumbnail itself rather than just on the edges. Plus, my thumbnails are kinda ass and usually not super connected to the topic (this one is Overwatch characters in a Danganronpa trial lol) so having the words in the actual thumbnail helps to make sure people actually pick up what my video is about even if they’re just casually scrolling by.
Someone thought youre being too hard on blizzard? From an outsiders PoV you sound like a blizzard apologist making excuses for them, no offense. Objectively speaking you're pretty neutral but video game discourse around dumpster fires is usually fairly straightforward so pulling punches and not calling out devs for lack of vision, incompetence, bad decisions etc. does come across as trying to defend them.
I mean, my past videos have been pretty critical - most of them have titles like “Blizzard Doesn’t Understand Survivorship Bias”, “Overwatch: A Failure in Expanding a Universe”, “Why Overwatch 2’s Monetization is Such a Problem”, etc. I’ve criticized the devs plenty of times in those videos; this one was just meant to be looking at things from a broader perspective to gain understanding, not about attacking or defending anyone. Even with that said, though, I did still straight up say that I think Blizzard often gets it wrong, so I wouldn’t say I’m much of an apologist for them.
@@TheViveros i know where you're coming from as i do watch all your videos. Just saying that someone commenting on you as overly critical when you're giving by far the most balanced criticism in a crowd of people basically just screaming at blizzard is wild to me.
Ah, I get what you’re saying, my bad. Honestly, most of these comments come from the people who hate followed after the Seagull reaction to the survivorship video. They tend to repeat a lot of the same bad-faith arguments he made where he acted like I was just a biased Sombra main who hates Blizzard, and it just gets frustrating to deal with the people who’ve picked that up and ran with it - especially because he made more money off of my video than I did lmao Honestly though it’s mostly just frustrating that people don’t want to have more interesting discussions around their favourite games, or treat every critique as a personal attack that needs to be blown up into a full-scale war. It’s a feature of a lot of pop culture discourse in general, and I think it’s why so few content creators bother - it rarely pays off in the end.
I enjoy your intelligence, you're clearly well educated, but be wary the bitter and pompous ego, friend. Clever as a pinch of pontification may sound on paper, when that pinch becomes a pile, the edifice of genius collapses into rust
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
I get excited every time I see you post a new video. Something about your style of video, analysis on Overwatch 2 as someone with a lot of knowledge of the game while trying to avoid bias, it's really nice. I love seeing your channel grow, too, it's amazing to see. Love the vids, keep doing your thing
YOU!! That’s MY name
I do agree with you 100%. I would also like to point out (I think you hinted at it, but not fully dove into it), that its sort of the goal of video game devs to actually intentionally cause game imbalance to spice things up. League of Legends is, despite what many of its fans think, actually one of the better balanced games out there. There's very few champs that are truly unplayable, and there is a massive variety of characters in the highest ranks of competitive play; unlike in OW2 Season 1 where literally 40/50 of the top DPS players on the ladder had Sojourn as their most played character.
Despite this, Riot Games intentionally causes imbalance in their game and makes significant changes to make things unique and interesting. Unlike sports who don't receive "development teams", people who play video games expect the experience to be different year to year in a live service model. And people when you don't update your game, generally speaking people tend to lose interest, even if its a perfectly balanced game where everything is equally viable.
That being said, Blizzard tends to be worse than the industry standard when it comes to balance. They're better than Battlestate Games but the bar is 6 feet under at that point. A good example being the Sojourn "nerfs" which just ended up making her actually stronger in regards to her railgun awhile back, I think in January.
Trying to clarify all of this to the average player in a F2P environment, while also communicating "no right answers, but plenty of wrong ones" is haunting. This is a great breakdown with a lot of solid points. The lack of education/learning tools in the game for just baseline information really hampers a lot of the Devs ability to adjust the game and limits player ability to communicate what is wrong. It's a huge struggle within the community, despite the Devs trying to listen to feedback.
I think there's some critical information around Design Structures (which are heavily embedded still in the original cast, much of which, was abandoned with the "DLC heroes") that could further clarify some of your points, but overall this video gets a ton of information across that should clarify for the playerbase at large. Great job!
One of the few things I've felt they did right was how the METAs feel in overwatch 2. Now, I don't know if it's because my skill is higher than my rank suggests, but I've had great success with heroes that, as far as I know, are off meta. Overwatch 1 felt like if I wasn't running meta, double shield would just show it's ugly head and shut me down... at least on DPS. I can finally climb on DPS for the first time in years, ESPECIALLY since queue times are far better. No more 10 minute DPS queues in PLAT
I would love a video on why Brigette was bad for the game from you tbh. I really loved playing her from the start and even after the buffs up until the release of OW2 and never really understood what made her bad that other heroes already had. I know that sounds like a low ranked take or whatever but I simply just don't remember how the game felt like 5 years ago and only remember liking how she played with the double tanks
I think it’s more about what she enabled - and that might be an interesting topic to discuss in the future in the future. In isolation, she was fine; the problem was that she was built to try to deal with the specific problem of dive being really strong by introducing a hero who could reliably mess up a bunch of the dive heroes, but in doing so, they undermined a lot of what had defined the game up until that point and led to the goats meta.
She was also a bit of a symptom of the power creep of Overwatch, as new heroes had to bring something new and impactful to the game in order to be worth including but often end up becoming too impactful in the process. As well, original heroes had the advantage of being able to snatch up all the easy/straightforward concepts, leaving the more radical ones to the DLC heroes who might break the game with them. Brig’s probably the biggest offender there, but heroes like Sojourn and Kiriko are good recent examples of it too.
Brig Casually heading into Overwatch to create role.
When talking about what kind of game Overwatch is, I remembered some old interviews on how Overwatch was meant to be:
A. A tribute to 90s styled shooters.
B. A more team-centric MOBA.
I don't have any experience with MOBAs because I don't hate myself, but what I can say is that Overwatch misunderstands why classic fast-paced shooters were good in the first place. The appeal of 90s shooters is focused around map control of power positions, high speed expressive movement, and diverse aim types. While it checks the third box and you can make a bit of a case for it having importance on power positions, it utterly fails at the second, and actively goes against this principle with how many stun mechanics there are and the fact Blizzard keeps patching out movement tech.
So if we take it from the mouth of the developers, Overwatch is fundamentally flawed. But if we take the more reasonable approach of ignoring this, we're back at square 1.
I just made the worst curry last night 😢
do better.
You can make the best curry with patience, willpower, and attention to detail. I believe in you.
All just a part of making the best curry you can. Don't let it get you down, but don't repeat the mistake either 😊
Would eat
Lots of curry powder a dash of paprika garlic salt pepper little bit of water let simmer if not thick enough a little bit of corn starch or flower with cold water will thicken it up if this method is used season again but not as much you can ad vegetables of your choice but make sure to cook them up before adding water
Despite how disconnected I've been from OW2, I find myself watching all your videos so kudos on that. And being a hockey ref is so hilariously Canadian. Minor criticism: speaking speed feels a little fast? It made me actually check if the video wasn't at 1x, so it might be an issue for some people.
I watch at 2x speed haha
I do the same thing. Sometimes it's fine, but at other times (Maybe when the footage is sped up) the voice over seems to speed up just a tiny bit, too?
There's also another aspect of this that isn't super looked into, blizzard has a financial incentive to make their game "unbalanced", if the meta always stays the same, then there is absolutely no reason to continue to play once you've mastered (or been demolished by) that meta, having a meta gives players a reason to come back to the game, having to relearn the game means more hours played.
This incentive is even bigger in overwatch 2 than overwatch 1, keeping players coming back for each season of the battle pass insures that they continue to make money, as opposed to overwatch 1, where blizzard simply made their money the moment someone buys the game, and all the time someone spends in the game is irrelevant to how much money they make (other than keeping the game active, which obviously incentivizes more players to try the game out, thus buying it)
this topic is very interesting, as it's always on-going and will probably never end lol
Very quickly becoming my fav OW channel, so much more thoughtful and high effort than most everyone else. Worthwhile analogies, several new modes of analysis to me for understanding balance and viability. Jay3 did us so dirty by with the shouting-into-a-webcam meta if we could have had a decade of thoughtful content like this.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that!
One other thing that makes balancing anything so hard is that strength is relative. If at the beginning of a games life Character A is 10% stronger than everyone else they will be meta but as the game becomes more balanced if they are only 1% stronger they will be meta. You can never truly make a balanced game like this, only close enough where the power levels are similar enough that no one cares.
Balancing games really isn't that hard. The problems emerge when developers try and ordain a meta, or make changes that undermine their original intent due to irrelevant concerns such as how fun the game is to watch as an esport. Overwatch has been in a balanced state very briefly a few years ago, but over time things have become more and more chaotic due to these issues. Things like the community deciding that stuns were an issue 4 years after launch demonstrate this perfectly. There were definitely issues with the game at launch; but decisions like role queue have compounded to break the game in ways that no amount of number tweaking could hope to fix. You just can't have Roadhog healing half his health back every 10 seconds with no way to interrupt him, it was designed for a game that just doesn't exist anymore.
As bad changes compound, older players lose faith in the game, and newer ones are attracted in who like the new mechanics. So things can't even be reversed, even if ActiBlizz were capable of admitting they made a mistake.
Glad to have discovered your channel. It's good to see someone taking the time and effort to do effective deconstruction and analysis of interesting aspects of the game which are easy to gloss over or over-simplify. Your work is greatly appreciated!
Hey nice video. Enjoyed the intellectual aspect of approaching balance.
Learned plenty things, especially about the definitions of polarization. It reminds me about Smash Melee and how a few fighters are considered competitively viable, but the game is advertised and balanced as a party game. Wasn’t till Smash 4 when they focused on including comp play, balancing from the top-down. Now more fighters can compete.
IMO, OW2 has a different problem. Advertised as a comp heroes shooter, but from a dev video they state ”balanced around the average player”.
I found this odd, and explains why a lot of strange balance decisions, polarizing metas popping up easily, and heroes losing viability up the skill bracket.
Skilled players will optimize and find metas. Game gets boring or frustrating, devs are slow, indecisive, and contradicting.
It appears that they don’t know what to focus on; a competitive or party game. Hopefully they find this video and come to a conclusion.
FOR YOUR VIDEO ON OMNICS: I agree that they are handled poorly, my main hope is that they will do something cool with what they have. I theorize it will be something like "gods have always existed, some have projected themselves by using naturally occurring hardlight, while some have remained dormant and inaccessible until humans created a vessel that these gods could communicate with/through." This is the only thing I can think of that makes sense at all; it explains not only the iris as a concept as well as the sudden sentience of omnics, but it also explains the shimada family and kiriko, plus how humans discovered hardlight and studied it.
While I agree on the most part, I have to disagree with the sentiment that there is nothing the playerbase can do / the meta is determined by the devs via balance patches. Balance patches do have the most immediate impact, but there are a thousand other variables that are equally important given enough time. How does the average player expect to approach a given game/map/encounter, what options haven't actually been properly considered due to old stigma, why is the meta the meta and what could counter it from there, and how do all of these things shift over time?
Destiny 2 is my go to example for this. Maybe a year or two ago there was a massive change at the high end. At the time, the primary weapons of choice were hand cannons, ARs, and SMGs. Hand cannons have the ability to peak shoot and high burst, offering safety. ARs and SMGs, depending on the specific patch, were competing for the fastest ttk. At the high end, basically out of nowhere, single-shot grenade launchers took over. To make a long story extremely short, players got bored of the meta and realized "wait, I can one-shot people from behind cover". The playerbase was so focused on meta-chasing that they forgot to consider other variables, right up until a number of streamers got so sick of the meta they started exploring other options. As a playerbase we're mostly just a hivemind of idiots listening to other idiots, who think our 2 days and maybe a dozen hours on a patch make us experts on how the whole web of balance comes together, and as a result our perception of the meta ends up being small minded and short sighted. Given enough time though, our collective 2 braincells will almost inevitably figure something else out and shake up the game entirely, even if just out of boredom and frustration.
Maybe it's just me but I always thought that balancing in OW (and other games) should almost be a last resort. Take GOATS for example. Sure, GOATS was really dominate, but that's because people didn't really try hard enough to find a counter. I remember that the Shanghai Dragons and the Chengdu Hunters played some multi-DPS comps and they did pretty good against GOATS. The main reason GOATS was dominate was because it was easy (I think) and people didn't put the time into finding the counter when they could just scrim GOATS instead.
I think my vision of OW is different from the dev's (this was something you said in the video, having different visions for the game). I always thought that OW should revolve around counter-picking and finding the best strategy to defeat your opponent, like a really complex rock paper scissors. I find flexibility to be one of the best virtues in this game, tbh. But the devs seem to want every hero to be viable event if you are playing directly into your counter, which I don't like. There's no meta in rock-paper-scissors, so I don't see why OW can't be like it.
Anyways, good video as always. Your content is consistently amazing, I like how much thought you seem to put into your vids yet also not just saying you know the answers. Leaves room for discussion, which is good.
very engaging video as always! the topic of diversity within the game mechanics and how each hero changes dynamics is something that's been on my mind when uproar about feature removal starts getting thrown around. discord orb, blue beam, hack etc being removed almost always reads to me like a demand of 'equality' where your mechanical skill should matter more than how you interact with different variables within a high octane, high movement game where... honestly? your sense of what to do and quick ability to judge your next action counts for a lot more than most fps players are used to.
sure, clicking heads wins games in the end, but what if you're stopped from clicking heads? what if you keep parking your ass into one spot, don't move, ignore footsteps and expect to be babysat through your entire play, get upset if you're anti'd, hacked or challenged with something outside of what you consider raw mechanical prowess, then why are you playing this game? no like, for real, why? if youre against a mercy pocket, why not ask one of your healers to stay with you for a bit to punish them, if you're confident you can win that 2v2?
i'm mostly rambling here too, but it's been on my mind as well, and your videos help me bounce arguments off of my own thoughts so thanks for that.
Personally, Ow2 S3 is close to, if not, the closest time Overwatch has reached Multipolarity. Outside of 4 specific heroes (maybe more depending on who you ask), Ball for tank is incredibly hard to stop if he knows how to play around his team and seperate when needed (Yeatle in particular doesn't really suffer against sombra as an example). And the 2 snipers for dps. Widow and Hanzo, just having the ability to one shot, or the threat of landing one is enough to force people to play differently but isnt impossible to stop by out-aiming them or diving them with the entire team (hopefully, sucks if your team doesn't do this). And Kiriko, need I explain anything about her.
A bit of a fun fact, but this video script was actually initially written in the first couple weeks of Overwatch 2’s launch, and the first draft included an argument that basically boiled down to “The game feels fun right now because we’ve all had to re-learn how Overwatch works to such an extent that we’re not nearly as confident in setting metas in the standard competitive ladder, even if the pros have obviously developed more of a meta”. The whole point was going to be that because of how impactful the change from 6v6 OW1 to 5v5 OW2 was, it forced us into a state of multipolarity we hadn’t seen in a long time, and that I was worried that the other shoe was inevitably going to drop and we’d see a return to more rigid metas. The whole video was going to be a lot more of a “Please learn from OW1 and don’t fuck this up, Blizzard - you’ve got a good thing going right now” vibe, but then it got shelved for a while because I wanted to wait until the meta had time to run through the cycle at least once before making it lol
@@TheViveros Honestly speaking as a tank main (mostly rein and winston main with a zarya/sigma flex, and picked up orisa since she was fun in s1) I didn't have any issues adjusting. Had more fun due to not being constantly cc'ed, god was it annoying to deal with Hog Orisa Brig Ana Cree as Rein. As for rigid metas. S2 in particular was incredibly rigid, to the point of there was only 1 flexible pick. Tank was either Orisa vs Orisa, Hog vs Orisa, or Hog vs Hog, there wasnt anything else. And the only reason Orisa was up there was cuz she could actually just not let Hog do anything. Dps was just Sojourn and anyone else you wanted with a Mercy pocket, Kiriko for main support. Only the remaining dps slot was even considered flexible. At least blizzard seems intent on listening to community feedback, even tho they have a few misses every patch. Like Buffing Mercy pocket heals to the point it becomes near impossible to finish off a target as most tanks, despite the main issue being damage boost Sojourn. Sojourn just still generally being a strong character, people just seem to not want to play her right now. No cap she can still dominate games. The doom buff into a harder nerf is egregious, they made one of the worst tanks into a tank that literally can press buttons off cooldown and would never die into a tank that was worse than his initial rework. I just genuinely pray that they stop missing so hard on some of these buffs or nerfs.
@@TheViveros if not flats, share with seagull
Ball is probably the hardest character for blizzard to balance in the game. Even when he was ‘underpowered’ before s3, very good ball players (especially Chazm) could still carry a lobby with him, whereas anyone playing ball basically below GM would basically be throwing. When blizzard tried to buff ball to improve him in the lower ranks, he instantly became a problem in the higher ones, despite being in a good place elsewhere. Chazm went from like #150 tank player to literally #1 in like two weeks.
This is a really great discussion on meta, especially when it comes to how it's enacted in Overwatch. My favourite part of the video was watching your Sombra gameplay of struggling to find any health packs to sit at on the second point of Circuit Royale
I’m so glad you enjoyed, and I will be reporting to Blizzard HQ about those health packs bc it’s a war crime.
I kinda hurt me to watch lol
im gonna be honest i didnt even consider the fact that something as simple as slightly nerfing the damage of a hero causes a complete tidal wave of meta shifts...
honestly one of the things im most looking foward to now that i've returned to the game is being around when the next hero comes, because the last time i've experienced meta changes with new heros was when echo came around... and even at that point i was pretty burnt out.
recently i havent really been able to experience a new hero, i mean sure coming back to the game with sojourn, junker queen, kiriko, ramattra, and lifeweaver has made the game super interesting again, and has definitely helped me get back into playing overwatch (i'm literally practicing sojourn lmao), but i wasnt around for those heroes releases.
guess i can only hope that i dont get absolutely demolished by the tidal wave of meta changes from a new hero coming out...
oh yeah- cool video by the way!
I've always had an idea on how to fix alot of the problems that spawn from the dps category, like sombra, sym and torb.
Sombra is prob the best example but imagine if there was a support that could use a much more flexible version of hanzo sonar arrow? The biggest problem sombra has is A) she bullys supports and b) lower ranks dont work well together so she can just run lower lobby's with just abit of game knowledge so imagine a support that could completely shut down sombra like sombra completely shuts down ball or echo, bascially the major problem rn is they dont wanna have a heavy counter based game but they also wanna leave heros like sombra and sym in who just hard counters some other stuff, if something is gonna hard counter then it needs a hard counter as well and atm support have very few tools to counter most the dps roster, look at paladins because its prob handled gimmicky abilities like invis and turrets 10x better then overwatch as they have a shop mechanic that allows you to buy illuminate for invis and wreaker for turrets which gives the player individual control over countering some of these things but overwatch doesnt have a in game shop for perks, instead it has a hero swap mechanic so instead of nerfing and changing these controversial heros, add ones so other people can actually have counter play.
Or just straight up rework the playstyle (not hero) to take away all major controversial stuff, and what I mean by that is instead of tightening the gameplay loop sombra uses with cool downs and time out abilities, you just outright change it by removing abilities like invis.
Because they cant have both and atm it feels like they wanna leave the busted abilities in while giving very little counterplay outside of working as a team which overwatch will never have much teamwork for the average player and ignoring the average player is stupid as they make up majority of the game.
I'm a masters level player on console (except tank where I suck 😂) so most these heros dont bother me much but I do have plenty of friends that are prob hard stuck silver for life that hate the game already due to just how unfun these abilities are to play into as they have no individual counterplay.
A good way to put it is we make sports child friendly for the kids playing these sports in school for a reason, you cant just tackle people or start fights like in pro hockey, these kids need to have the game easier for them because if the kids lose interest in the sport then goodluck keeping the sport alive for the next generation and it's the same with ow where you cant just ignore the kids trying to learn the game because eventually they're gonna get hit in the head one to many times and say fk this sport 😂.
i don't know if this would help balance, much. but i really wish blizzard would bring the PTR back. they could release faster updates and just try out some crazy concepts. like different number of teammates per team, different abilities, different effects of said abilities, or extra/different roles, etc... there wouldn't even be that much pressure on them when a change sucks, and when it's good, they can just introduce it into the live game.
Kinda a hot take, but i want them to bring back the og torb and Symetra support abilities, like the armor packs and little shield temp health
so glad youtube recommended me that one video of yours. everything you say is so interesting and eye opening
i want all of those videos, they each sound amazing
Brilliant channel I always watch all of your videos and they’re all great, the music, the commentary, gameplay, subject, and your voice all make the video great, thanks for making content
Ok this video was really fun to watch, but the self promo was honestly the most convincing one I’ve heard in a while!!! Like yeah I wanna hear all of those videos get made! Genius ngl
Thank you so much!
Always so excited to see a new video by Viveros :) Great work as always
It seems like lifeweaver is intentionally "weak" as some sort of damage control
Man i love your videos.its just so nice to play in the background or focus on.your voice is just so soothing!
I coudnt care less about O2 but your videos are super entertaining and informative. Awesome content
Love you vids, always a treat watching your work. So well put together every time
Something about your videos are so different than most overwatch videos and it’s so refreshing!!🤍
I really enjoyed this video, good job! I'd actually be interested to see why Overwatch is so different compared to other popular games too like League of Legends or even Overwatches predecessor team fortress 2. Maybe it's just me, but those games, despite having similar mechanics or gameplay elements, don't seem as oppressive when it comes to the meta or balance.
-___- Several paragraph response got deleted (Like it never existed) by TH-cam. This is the second time it's happened on various other videos now.
TL:Don't want to try to rewrite it all
A: People absolutely will find the "Best" way to do something, especially when Money is on the line.
B: If there's a Best way, then there needs to be counters to combat best play. Unless Best Play is the way the dev team sees the game.
EX: If Sojourn is very very strong, they must want her to be very very strong because they haven't adequately nerfed her, but instead nerfed Mercy for enabling her to be Even Stronger? THough not in a way that would make Sojourn any less strong, just in a way that makes it easier to kill the enabler? Because that's fun? Go figure.
C: If the "Best Way" isn't what is intended, and they don't want hard counters in the game "Balance" updates need to come out a lot more often and a lot harder.
Though the way they've dealt with Sojourn makes me think that none of that will happen and that the game being unbalanced it sort of what they want.
In a game no matter how balanced a Meta will form or somthing will have a competive edge like in most turn based games like chess the player who goes first has a advantage
And if a game like overwatch has perfect balance the meta will just become the easiest heros to get value on cause there's less risk for the same reward
Creating a perfectly balanced game is impossible what the goal should be is a constantly shifting meta but in a way that keeps as much of the roster at least viable
It wouldn't be hard if they actually let roles be actually roles. Tanks should tank and playstyle should revolve around damage mitigation and crowd control, not dps. Support should well support, buff, debuff, and heal, not do crowd control or dps. And dps should actually do dps. But they won't do this because they want money .
I feel like this is a lecture in a game design course that's studying team based games the current chapter is overwatch.
Just make the characters I like good and the characters I don't like bad. Ez. Now pay me 🔫🔫🔫
Love this analysis, and the breakdown of polarity and what that means for balance is a very interesting and insightful look into the topic. I would love to see this same type of logic used to analyze Smash Melee's meta. The way that Fox seems to have a Unipolarity in the meta but how even then he doesn't win an overwhelming majority of tournaments, and how characters like Yoshi with Amsa and recently Shiek can still break through that Unipolarity and make the top character seem incredibly fallible. All while the game has never had any direct changes caused by the game actively changing, only through community and player action.
Great video, feel like it will become especially relevant in the future with Lifeweaver's pull ability
I love your videos!! It shows a very different perspective which I enjoy when playing a game like overwatch.
HELLO???? 999??? OH MY GOD I WAS JUST ENJOYING YOUR CHANNEL BECAUSE OF YOUR INTEREST OVERWATCH STUDIES AND I HEAR MY FAVORITE GAME MENTIONED? WOOOOWW what a jumpscare! I might have to actually join just to represent haha. Everyone you should play Zero Escape!!!
Thanks for the fascinating video game study by the way!! I'm so glad someone out here is trying to bring more rigorous scientific assessments to my favorite medium!
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I actually have my whole 999 playthrough up on my VODs channel if you wanna see me lose my mind trying to play it lol, it was a good time and I'm excited to play through some more of the series.
I really enjoyed the video and think you communicate the topic extremely well, I do however have 1 tiny bit of criticism. Could you talk a teensy bit slower? That's it, I will share this video with my friends to see what they think :D
I probably would've watched this video anyway because it's an interesting/relevant topic to me, but I have to say, the Overwatch roster participating in a Danganronpa trial is a very intriguing thumbnail.
Thank you! I don’t really know what made me think to do the thumbnail that way, it makes absolutely no sense but I love it. I’ve been imagining the heroes in a trial doing a nonstop debate about balance changes and laughing to myself for days lol
For what it’s worth, I think the politics on latency is a good idea. Don’t know if I can join or not, but just adding my 2 cents.
I appreciate it! I'm going to be leaving it to people with channel memberships just because that's one of the perks promised to them, but the poll will be open for a couple weeks in case you decide to join down the road.
@@TheViveros that’s fair enough! Maybe I can be a tie breaker lol.
These videos make my day ngl
ong
Politics and ping sounds really fascinating and enlightening
It’s a really fun topic! It’s a field of personal interest, so I’d be excited to talk about it.
@@TheViveros yeah, global politics are a super interesting aspect of gaming that are often overlooked and you seem like you know a lot more about me on that subject, so I'd love to hear what you have to say on that.
I already love the thumbnail, it made me irl scream. thank you
It took me an *embarrassingly* long time to make that thumbnail lmao, I’m glad it was worth it 😊
Love the thumbnail lol
Your contents are always interesting, but I feel sometimes that you talk too fast and is hard to follow. It is kinda like the video its at x1.25 (Don't know if it's just a feel or it's actually accelerated on purpose, but some pauses would feel nicer n.n)
I get that, but personally I liked it. When so often TH-cam videos drag with slow narrators and long winded explanations, it can turn a topic which could be normally a 10 minute video into a 45 minute video. And with only so many hours to watch videos, I do appreciate that he attempts to be concise and to the point with his ramblings.
@@Fantasia-em5rs You can also be more effective by being actually more concise and using less words, rather than speaking so fast/accelerating the audio. I think that would help his channel more.
ALBERTA?? YOU'RE CANADIAN TOO?? NICEEE, and finally someone from somewhere other than just Ontario!!
There are dozens of us!
Can you do a video on the difference between balancing in fighting games?
It’s definitely an interesting subject field, but I don’t know if I’m familiar enough with fighting games to speak with any authority on it if I’m being honest. I don’t play many of them, and when I do it’s very casual, so in the interests of not embarrassing myself and getting roasted by the people who know what they’re doing I’ll probably stay out of their lane for the time being haha
I very much enjoy all your rambles 🍀
I'm just gonna say imo OW balance is bad (maybe unstable is a more accurate word) because good competitive foundations were never really implemented or properly thought about in great detail with the game's inception. I didn't play OW in the early days but from what I've heard there have been a lot of mechanics (like being able to pick any hero including duplicates on the same team) that just don't seem very competitive at all. I just feel like not starting off with a good foundational understanding of how a game will play competitively when it comes to designing a competitive game, is a recipe for disaster and will lead to poor competitive integrity as we've arguably seen.
(And I haven't watched the video yet but I'm excited to see what's said)
I really liked that whole analogy thing even if I barely understood it 🤣🤣
Your take is a ton more nuanced than mine as well 😭👏
omg i love the thumbnail danganronpa is so me!
the concept of a 999 video makes me so excited
I have so many opinions about 999 that I’m *desperate* to talk about, the only reason it’s going into a poll rather than just being made as a normal video is because I don’t wanna unleash that on people unless it’s actually what they want from me lmao
@@TheViveros oh i definitely understand that. In my perception module in college we've touched on stuff like two-toned images (idk their actual name but the funyarinpa is an example of this) and prosopagnosia, and its taken all my will-power not to explain every single detail of zero escape to my friends who definitely wouldnt care LMAOOO
The prosopagnosia stuff was genuinely one of the most interesting twists in the game to me. There’s a lot of unnecessary over-complication in 999 that ended up feeling tedious, especially when you’re going for multiple endings, but I felt like that was a genuinely really smart element to incorporate in the narrative and it was worked into it pretty smoothly (at least compared to the stuff about the mummy, which made me want to pull my hair out lol)
@@TheViveros yea allice was... a part of the game... 999 is really good at setting up everything, despite how weird it is being dragged aside during a life or death situation to have ice-9 explained to you, I found everything really interesting! I love the Zero Escape series (and what Ive played of Uchikoshi's work) despite some of the bullshit he may throw at us, and I cant wait to see a potential video about 999 in the future!
extreme transitions as always
I absolutely love this thumbnail
It took an embarrassing amount of time to make ngl but I love it too
@@TheViveros Nothing embarrassing about it, it's a lot of work!
i love how cool your hud looks, what colors you use?
I just use lime green for allies and magenta (I think?) for enemies, and then I got a stream overlay that I adjusted until it matched the UI colour.
@@TheViveros Do you have some way that I can use the overlay? Like, a PNG? I'm not even planning on streaming with it (i don't like streams in the first place lol), I honestly just want to overlay it onto my game because it looks cool. I also suck at graphic design, so I can't really make it myself, sorry.
It just kind of reminds me a bit of TF2's HUDs, and I'm sometimes really sad that a huge customisation option like that was never implemented into OW; as I really, really loved how you could make custom HUDs in TF2. I'm a sucker for stuff like that.
the danganronpa thumbnail is genius haha
how and why does your HUD look like that
I downloaded a free overlay package and then just colour-matched it to my in-game HUD colour. It only shows up in streams/recordings, not in-game, but the creator is a person named WinterSky on Twitter if you’d like to get them yourself!
Can't afford to sub, but I would like that 999 video. Be it I would enjoy it all regardless.
0.75x speed makes this more listenable. I understand TH-cam doesn’t support long form content the same way it used to, but I feel there is no need to rush in a video like this…
This is just how I talk lol
How was I not subscribed to you already??? Welp. Fixed that!
Bro's translocators are 10 lightyears away from the fights
In my defence I was trying to win a bet for 5 gifted subs if I could survive a match without dying, and I’d lost like 3 of those bets already by this point so I was being *stupid* cautious about it lmao
Nintendo isn't hating anyone, those people are just playing it in a way it wasn't ment to
balancing is easy just nerf the characters i don't happen to like
Balancing something with so much ripple effect actually sounds like a perfect problem for AI to work on.
Not really, tbh. AI would first need a model to balance based off of, and even setting aside every other issue with AI, any attempt to create training material for a program would still run into the same problems as when humans try to balance it. The AI would still have to try to balance conflicting incentives and determine priorities, it would still have to deal with players working overtime to optimize outcomes, and it would have to do all of that without being able to actually play a game the way a human would. An AI doesn’t understand the challenges that come with a lot of mechanical skills, and so will interpret heroes on the extremes like Widowmaker or Mercy very differently than how they need to be understood for balance purposes.
@@TheViveros I agree that defining the desired outcome is absolutely the main problem with the AI approach. But I still think it could be an incredible tool in understanding how changes have impacted the entire roster of heroes.
Sojourn getting a nerf to her max damage has a ripple effect on other heroes' viability like you mentioned. But how much? Like, exactly? Quantifiably? That's a question that AI can answer.
Again, the main difficulty is in defining the unit, really. Balancing around win % is an obvious example of how that doesn't work and we've seen that fail before with the best example probably being Symmetra.
I think pickrate (normalized per role) should probably be the stat used for making the game the most fun, diverse, and accessible. But I think a lot of people really enjoy having their main's time to shine.
@@TheViveros oh, and I didn't really mean simulation, more like Bayesian analysis
Because its a first person shooter with moba elements and complex maps. There no stop watching youtube videos at 3am and go to sleep.
🔥
Alberta gang rise up.
I can't believe you got me to listen to a lecture about political sciences xD
that was the most confusing ramble ive ever heard in my life
Skill Issue.
Hang on how did this video transition into a politics lecture xD
The whole, let’s just remove them reminds me of aatrox from league, he was just flat out removed from the game and replaced, and his replacement better fits within the meta but there is no champion in league that fills the niche he did, so original aatrox mains forever hate riot and are salty about it, while yes it could be better for the game it also can fuck over a lot of players and create negative resentment
So while yes redoing sombra might fix some issues within her kit it’ll piss off sombra players and might create further balance issues in the future that people just haven’t thought of, it would be better to modify her to work more with the general flow that the game flows while keeping her unique rhythm rather than straight up change her kit or kill her character
Changing a hero's kit is definitely a case-by-case basis (the only people I see complain about the re-works are Doom players [and rightfully so :copium:]; the others seem pretty contempt with them). Current Sombra just doesn't work imo and will probably lead to some really aids meta issues if it doesn't get resolved. I'd honestly rather them make a mediocre rework (like doom lmao) to her and piss of the Sombra community than to leave her in her dysfunctional state. On another note, I will say that Moira's design is *_Exponentially_* worse and that the addition of her is just a net-negative to the quality of the game, but at least she's been easily the worst support in the game meta-wise.
Just delete Wrecking Ball, Mei and Brigitte. I just fixed your game.
the thumbnail... the thumbnail lmaooo this danganronpa shit deserves another worst thumbnail poll
This was one of my favourite thumbnails to make, and whenever I have a lot of fun with a thumbnail I *know* it’s gonna be an abomination lmao
I’ll probably run another worst thumbnail poll tournament when I have enough new ones, but I bet this one will place high if I do
@@TheViveros lol yeah it's great imagining the characters having a nonstop debate
The idea came from making myself laugh imagining Tracer saying “But that was Akande’s lie!” in her best Kokichi impersonation and I think that says a lot about where I’m at mentally
@@TheViveros bro is danganronpa-pilled...
The ADHD hyperfixations hit HARD 😔
Bruh that reaction to that one comment at the end of the video 😂😂 I like your content but damn bro that makes you look petty AF. They kinda have a point. Like I still watch you cause out of that type of content I think yours is the most well thought out, and most aware of your own biases. But that doesn't change that you do have your own biases, and much of your content can be deemed controversial takes on how blizzard could do their job better. Like that's an objective one at this point homie.
I understand defending your point, but just shitting on someone who critiques you is kinda asinine... Like why shouldn't blizzard just do the same to you and tell you to go choke?? Lmao it comes across as very hypocritical and I'd get on top of that as it's a quick way to alienate your audience and make them displeased with how you carry yourself
You know what, I'm going to assume that this is a good faith comment, so let's go through what that commenter said specifically and I'll explain my reasoning in detail.
The comment in question said "the videos you make just sounds like you complaining about ow and adding ur own twist on issues just for the sake of content". That isn't true. I'm not just complaining for the sake of content, I'm talking about a game I've spent a thousand hours on because I'm really invested in it and I think it's fun to talk about. If someone talks shit in the comments section, I'm absolutely allowed to push back. The commenter also said "I'd make a joke and say go work for blizzard so you can fix the game urself, but complaining about and milking it for content is easier right..... cuz nothing is ever good enuf for the ow community". Like I said in this video, if Blizzard wants me to fix their problems for them, they're welcome to pay me to do that - but until they're paying the bills, I don't understand why it's somehow my responsibility to do their jobs for them. I'm making videos talking about the game, and they're allowed to feel how they want to feel. There was also "See how you like it when ur work gets critiqued down to the bone based on inaccurate assumptions", which not only implies that I'm making my critiques on inaccurate assumptions, but also that people apparently never make bad-faith critiques of my work. Plenty of assholes in the comments put words in my mouth to get mad about, and big content creators have gone out of their way to misrepresent my videos to dogpile me. It's part of being online. At some point, you just deal with it. The last point was "If ur trying to sound smart on the channel then do glitch/bug analysis videos like Marblr or Not Muda instead of controversial takes and stuff that most people would consider being nitpicking at this point," and that's just a dumb argument. I'm not making content to try to sound smart, but also, I have no interest in being a Marblr clone. He does what he does, and I do what I do.
Now, if Blizzard wants to, they can tell me to go choke - I've never said they can't or shouldn't push back against criticisms they get, so I don't understand how this is hypocritical. If people don't like my tone or my approach, fine, but don't call me a hypocrite when I haven't contradicted my own values. On top of that, I don't shit on people for critiquing me, and you can go through my comments on my videos to find me engaging with people who have good faith criticisms of arguments I make. But I don't understand why people think that talking shit about me, to me, in the comments sections of my videos, should be a protected space for them where I can't push back on it. If you think my videos are controversial, sure, but that isn't objective - it's a subjective assessment, and I don't try to be controversial with my videos.
If this conduct is alienating to some people, honestly, fine. I don't want the kind of audience who thinks that a creator should be a punching bag. At the end of the day, I'm a human being too, and I get tired of people who talk to me like that. I have rules for commenting on this channel for a reason, and they're enforced for a reason. Good faith criticisms are more than welcome, but insults, deliberate misconstruing of my arguments, or outright putting words in my mouth are not. The channel rules are clearly communicated, and if someone chooses to break them, then they might just find themselves being put on blast for being an asshole.
Hope that addresses your concerns.
USA! USA! USA! Murica numbah 1!
balancing is not hard, just remove personnel input. Meta bullshit, dev favorites, player likes and dislikes, etc....
Genuine suggestion, you shouldn't put your title in the thumbnail. We don't need to read it twice
I want to make a joke answer to this, but fully honestly, they’re in there because it helps establish a colour for the thumbnail. The text in my thumbnails always matches the border and usually compliments the general colours of the thumbnail, and it’s the easiest way to incorporate the main colours into the actual body of the thumbnail itself rather than just on the edges. Plus, my thumbnails are kinda ass and usually not super connected to the topic (this one is Overwatch characters in a Danganronpa trial lol) so having the words in the actual thumbnail helps to make sure people actually pick up what my video is about even if they’re just casually scrolling by.
Wtf is the thumbnail?
It’s Overwatch heroes in the Danganronpa v3 courtroom debating balance changes, obviously
Someone thought youre being too hard on blizzard? From an outsiders PoV you sound like a blizzard apologist making excuses for them, no offense.
Objectively speaking you're pretty neutral but video game discourse around dumpster fires is usually fairly straightforward so pulling punches and not calling out devs for lack of vision, incompetence, bad decisions etc. does come across as trying to defend them.
I mean, my past videos have been pretty critical - most of them have titles like “Blizzard Doesn’t Understand Survivorship Bias”, “Overwatch: A Failure in Expanding a Universe”, “Why Overwatch 2’s Monetization is Such a Problem”, etc. I’ve criticized the devs plenty of times in those videos; this one was just meant to be looking at things from a broader perspective to gain understanding, not about attacking or defending anyone. Even with that said, though, I did still straight up say that I think Blizzard often gets it wrong, so I wouldn’t say I’m much of an apologist for them.
@@TheViveros i know where you're coming from as i do watch all your videos. Just saying that someone commenting on you as overly critical when you're giving by far the most balanced criticism in a crowd of people basically just screaming at blizzard is wild to me.
Ah, I get what you’re saying, my bad. Honestly, most of these comments come from the people who hate followed after the Seagull reaction to the survivorship video. They tend to repeat a lot of the same bad-faith arguments he made where he acted like I was just a biased Sombra main who hates Blizzard, and it just gets frustrating to deal with the people who’ve picked that up and ran with it - especially because he made more money off of my video than I did lmao
Honestly though it’s mostly just frustrating that people don’t want to have more interesting discussions around their favourite games, or treat every critique as a personal attack that needs to be blown up into a full-scale war. It’s a feature of a lot of pop culture discourse in general, and I think it’s why so few content creators bother - it rarely pays off in the end.
I just think there's too many heroes.
Bruh
Bruh
I enjoy your intelligence, you're clearly well educated, but be wary the bitter and pompous ego, friend. Clever as a pinch of pontification may sound on paper, when that pinch becomes a pile, the edifice of genius collapses into rust
This is an absolutely insane comment, thanks.