Viveros
Viveros
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Stop Changing The Game For The Sake Of Changing It
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join
Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros
Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros
Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6
VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs
Credits:
Model: Hauluciel ( hauluciel)
Branding & Graphics: Enso ( Enso_exe)
Stinger Animation: FroshByte ( froshbyte_)
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
1:59 - Part 1: Real-World Balance
7:16 - Part 2: Rare, Restricted, & Responsive
16:45 - Part 3: The Men In The Machines
26:26 - Part 4: The Live-Service Model
46:34 - Conclusion
มุมมอง: 7 421

วีดีโอ

C9 & How Gamers Construct Language
มุมมอง 15Kหลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Members' Choice Voting Explainer Video: th-cam.com/video/7JSg9S8p3C4/w-d-xo.html TH-cam members vote here: th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOXoJw2CK32EpDuJKVnPvw_I9CaYMnG11 Patreon members vote here: www.patreon.com/posts/its-time-for-117064935 Twitch: www.twitch...
How Microtransactions Are Hurting Character Design
มุมมอง 30K2 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Razbuten's video: th-cam.com/video/L51xc6iqeaU/w-d-xo.html Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Credits: Model: Hauluciel ( hauluciel) Brandi...
Cyberpunk 2077 And The Importance of Understanding Your Genre
มุมมอง 4.1K3 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Credits: Model: Hauluciel ( hauluciel) Branding & Graphics: Enso ( Enso_exe) Stinger Animatio...
The Pinkertons & How Games Rewrite History
มุมมอง 4.7K3 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Process of Elimination VoDs playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL8H2lZgPrUUs55YRpnIx3-RbQk80SggJ5.html Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Chapters: 0:00 - Intr...
The Myth of the Overwatch Killer
มุมมอง 9K4 หลายเดือนก่อน
Please ignore the fact that I used my VoD ending screen instead of my video one, it's been a long day lmao Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Credits:...
Why "Listen To The Players" Doesn't Work
มุมมอง 11K4 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Credits: Model: Hauluciel ( hauluciel) Branding & Graphics: Enso ( Enso_exe) Stinger Animatio...
The Tolerance We've Developed To Being Gouged
มุมมอง 8K5 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 2:27 - Part 1: The Boiled Frog 7:15 - Part 2: The Ratchet Effect 15:33 - Part 3: Comp...
Timeloops, Roguelikes, & How Genres Blend
มุมมอง 3.1K5 หลายเดือนก่อน
This video was meant to be out significantly earlier but I had some issues with processing, and I didn't realize until I was about to schedule it to be published that nobody would get to the end of the video where I said "Make sure to vote in this month's members' choice poll!" until after the poll was closed. Apologies for my inability to get things done on time lately, I'm working on it lmao ...
How Nostalgia's Ruining The 5v5 vs 6v6 Debate
มุมมอง 14K6 หลายเดือนก่อน
Please actually bother to watch the whole video before making insane assumptions about what you think I said in this video. Please. I do not think any of you understand how stressful it is to get a mountain of essay-length comments from people putting words in your mouth that are the polar opposite of what you said and then yelling at you over them. Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.y...
How Your Turn To Die Makes Choices Count
มุมมอง 84K6 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Your Turn To Die VODs playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL8H2lZgPrUUuSXpFOyXhrWCej0Y7pf05v.html Buy Your Turn To Die: store...
Nobody's Learned From Overwatch's Original Sin
มุมมอง 22K6 หลายเดือนก่อน
Surprise bonus video! I wanted to talk about Supervive because the NDA is finally over and this is a topic I've been thinking about for a while. To be clear, I'm not being paid for this video by either Theorycraft or NetEase for this video or for my participation in Theorycraft's creator program, all I got is the opportunity to play a game before release and some codes for Supervive to hand out...
How Do You Make Non-Binary Characters?
มุมมอง 24K7 หลายเดือนก่อน
Hey! So! I recognize that this video is potentially going to be controversial, and I want to make it clear upfront that this video is meant to be supportive of non-binary people and non-binary characters in games. If that is a problem for you, then this is not the video or channel for you. If you have criticisms of how I handled the topic, especially if you're non-binary yourself, I'm happy to ...
Buried Stars & How Character Design Tells Stories
มุมมอง 11K7 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Recommended guide if you decide to play it: psnprofiles.com/guide/10663-buried-stars-full-platinum-walkthrough Cred...
Drag Queens, VTubers, & Jester's Privilege
มุมมอง 4.3K7 หลายเดือนก่อน
Become a channel member through TH-cam: www.youtube.com/@TheViveros/join Become a channel member through Patreon: www.patreon.com/theviveros/ Twitch: www.twitch.tv/theviveros Socials: linktr.ee/theviveros Discord: discord.gg/tWvDuGyHS6 VODs channel: www.youtube.com/@TheViverosVODs Credits: Model: Hauluciel ( hauluciel) Branding & Graphics: Enso ( Enso_exe) Art: Zhiggy (twi...
Microsoft Abandoned Fuzion Frenzy & I'm Still Mad About It
มุมมอง 3.1K8 หลายเดือนก่อน
Microsoft Abandoned Fuzion Frenzy & I'm Still Mad About It
How Video Games Can Distort Your Perception of Real World Resources
มุมมอง 8K8 หลายเดือนก่อน
How Video Games Can Distort Your Perception of Real World Resources
Inescapable Is The Worst Game I've Ever Played & I'm Making That Your Problem Now
มุมมอง 438K9 หลายเดือนก่อน
Inescapable Is The Worst Game I've Ever Played & I'm Making That Your Problem Now
I Did A Study To Gaslight My Audience For Science & Personal Entertainment
มุมมอง 10K9 หลายเดือนก่อน
I Did A Study To Gaslight My Audience For Science & Personal Entertainment
Just Say Magic Exists In Overwatch
มุมมอง 211K10 หลายเดือนก่อน
Just Say Magic Exists In Overwatch
Let's Talk About Layoffs
มุมมอง 3.6K10 หลายเดือนก่อน
Let's Talk About Layoffs
Elo Hell & Why We Cope
มุมมอง 12K11 หลายเดือนก่อน
Elo Hell & Why We Cope
How Overwatch Uses Symbolism To Communicate
มุมมอง 8K11 หลายเดือนก่อน
How Overwatch Uses Symbolism To Communicate
Competitive Hero Shooters (Mostly Overwatch Tbh) Were A Mistake
มุมมอง 8Kปีที่แล้ว
Competitive Hero Shooters (Mostly Overwatch Tbh) Were A Mistake
The Genres That Gaming Struggles With
มุมมอง 3.5Kปีที่แล้ว
The Genres That Gaming Struggles With
Why People Learn The Wrong Lessons From Good Data
มุมมอง 3.5Kปีที่แล้ว
Why People Learn The Wrong Lessons From Good Data
Hitting GM Doesn't Mean You Understand Balance
มุมมอง 6Kปีที่แล้ว
Hitting GM Doesn't Mean You Understand Balance
Year in Review + Q&A
มุมมอง 1.3Kปีที่แล้ว
Year in Review Q&A
How Overwatch's Cosmetics Create a Culture of Classism
มุมมอง 28Kปีที่แล้ว
How Overwatch's Cosmetics Create a Culture of Classism
What's Up With Media About Kids In Killing Games?
มุมมอง 9Kปีที่แล้ว
What's Up With Media About Kids In Killing Games?

ความคิดเห็น

  • @10shredder00
    @10shredder00 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Fun video and all but you really lost the plot. The video is about why constant balance patches aren't great for games and it got completely derailed talking about real sports, countries at war, battlepass and a general hate for live service games. At no point did this video feel like it had a coherent message. Past a certain point it's just senseless noise and sounds like rambling about "Back in my day games used to be good and release as one solid experience with no changes" which is true, but that's a subject for a different video. A good point you made was the inconsistency in patches and notes across the industry but you levy that complaint against Marvel Rivals which is one of the ONLY games that has an official guide with exact values in great detail. It's sloppy work that discredited the entire video.

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Everything I brought up was tied back into the title of the video, and it was done that way deliberately. Sports were brought up as examples of balance patches in other competitions, war was brought up as an example of how real-world balance can be skewed by political incentives, battle passes were (very briefly) brought up as part of a bigger discussion of the live service model, which was brought up because the live service model is inseparable from the balance patch problem. I wasn’t trying to say that games used to be good back in my day and now they aren’t - I explicitly say that gaming is better in almost every way now than it was then, but this is one of the biggest exceptions to that - and it also isn’t a subject for a different video. Talking about how the model has changed over the years is entirely relevant to the subject of this video. I never said Marvel Rivals was inconsistent in patch notes, I said that it doesn’t provide that information in-game, and that’s true. Crucial information about how abilities and mechanics work should be in-game and shouldn’t require external sources, which is a subject I covered in my video “Overwatch’s Information Vacuum”. I said that many games don’t provide consistent or accurate patch notes, but never once said that Rivals did that - I said that values for damage are not made clear to players in-game. I said that this model creates inconsistency in the player experience when the rug is constantly being pulled out from under their feet, which is something that Rivals *is* guilty of, and which was the much bigger point that I think you overlooked. Please don’t come in here telling me I lost the plot of my own video and did sloppy work that discredits me when you can’t even be bothered to represent my arguments accurately. Every complaint you had is either a subjective opinion on relevancy or an objectively inaccurate summarization of my arguments, and then you insulted my work off the basis of that.

    • @10shredder00
      @10shredder00 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @TheViveros of course my criticisms are subjective, it's my personal opinion of your video. I never said your points were irrelevant, you did tie them tangentially to the point being made, my criticism is that you lost the plot. You go on these long paragraphs talking about sports and wars and competitions that you lose the main focus of the video. I learned a lot about the Olympics and the NASA-grade swimsuits but that doesn't really have much of a connective basis to videogames and why they should have fewer balance patches. And patch notes are rarely ever included in-game for any game, that's almost exclusively external media that you have to go looking up, which you bring up as a criticism since it isn't helpful for more casual gamers and you're right, but again you use that as well as games having inaccurate or incomplete patch notes while using Hela from Rivals as an example and as I said that's just wrong and reflects poorly on the rest of the video. I'll happily listen to the video a second time to reassess my own critiques but this is entirely my own subjective take and suggesting that future videos don't veer so far from the main topic.

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Alright, you keep hammering on this Hela thing and I think it's a pretty good example of how you weren't paying particularly close attention when you were making your critiques, so let's get into it. This is the quote you're angry about, starting from about 15:48: "This is all made worse by the fact that, unlike rule changes in literally any other competitive scene, patch notes are decrees from some omnipotent, unimpeachable higher power - not rules that will need to be implemented and interpreted at the discretion of a referee or judge. In theory, this isn’t a bad thing, because it removes ambiguity from enforcement - but in practice, it’s a terrible thing because games are inexplicably allergic to providing actual data in-game and in detail. How much damage does any character in Overwatch or Marvel Rivals actually do with a single bullet from their primary fire? How much healing can any of the supports or strategists do? And not just in terms of, like, "a lot" or "a little" - like, let's talk numbers. When Hela contributes to a KO, the body of her victim will turn into a crow that explodes after a second or two - how much damage does that do? Like I've played a good bit of Hela, I don't know. I've also played a good bit of Junker Queen, and when she hits someone with Carnage, they start to bleed - but I don't know how much damage they take while they’re bleeding, and neither do most people." An earlier point in a separate paragraph was about how SOME GAMES have inaccurate or incomplete patch notes, but Marvel Rivals was not mentioned in that section. The point that you're talking about regarding Hela was specifically in the context of how there's not enough information in-game that compensates for the inflexibility of the enforcement of the rules. These were two distinct, separate arguments, and your critique is wrongly conflating the two and then trying to use it to discredit my video. That's a failure of your comprehension, not of my argument. Now, you keep talking about how I "lose the main focus of the video" and I am begging you to understand that the point of this video was to explore competitive balance both within and beyond the realm of video games, using non-gaming competitive scenes as a lens through which to view competitive video games. Exploring other forms of competition *is* relevant. Exploring how balance is affected by external variables in other competitions *is* relevant. I stated that this was my intention upfront in the introduction and never once made a secret of the fact that that was going to be a major focus of the video. I didn't lose the plot, I think you just made an assumption about what I would talk about and are unsatisfied that I didn't follow your assumption. This is the type of content I make; I use a game as a jumping-off point to not only talk about that game, but talk about a bigger picture that that game is a part of. If that's not your cup of tea, then that's fine, but I will not be taking suggestions on how to run my content from people who are committed to misrepresenting what I said as part of their critiques.

  • @CinemaSans
    @CinemaSans 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    24:44 How to know someone has less than one brain cell, calling normal people living their lives as something "political"

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      yes, as a gay person this is me making a sarcastic joke

  • @CinemaSans
    @CinemaSans 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Honestly, they should have just said it's magic and explaining it could have been really easy, just say that in the ancient times, the worthy and brave warrior was rewarded with dragon powers by a dragon god and his descendants are the Shimada clan (same can be said about Kiri and some fox god, heck, we can have many animal gods based on for example Chinese zodiac and sure there is no fox in Chinese zodiac but there's a dog, eh, close enough, magic can evolve too I guess) Now they retconned it and they will probably say that it's some sort of fire holograms coming from Genji's blade and Hanzo's nanobot tattoos or something which is lame and it would take away from their characters, turning their dragons into nothing more than just a tool which technically speaking anyone can use And Zenyatta should be somewhat magical as well, let's just say that Iris' system/power malfunction and sacrifice created a "black hole" made of pure light energy that gave abilities to any omnic that had contact with that, simple, though it can be just technology and powerful energy.

  • @MxPokirby
    @MxPokirby 23 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    We first learned about this game for having queer rep, as a fellow non-binary, so we were willing to wishlist it despite its somewhat mixed/negative rating. We are very very glad we didn't end up buying it in the time it took us to learn just how offensively it treats people like us. Thought ngl, Sasha responding to "How should we call you?" with "Yelling works", we felt that. We liked that line. Sometimes you've just gotta hit cis people asking your pronouns for the umpteenth time with a "Do not refer to me"

  • @Dragnerful
    @Dragnerful วันที่ผ่านมา

    I Never thought I would find someone dedicating so much time to such an awful forgettable game, one thing I noticed in the few hours I played before dropping it (lust route...yuck) is that I don't know if they picked up native Vas for the people to have their countries accent because at least for the sisters...they don't sound spanish at all as a spanish native myself.

  • @insertname3293
    @insertname3293 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    the visuals look like class of '09 but shaded i guess

  • @NomuraHD
    @NomuraHD 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Le Sserafim mention

  • @JeromeSankara
    @JeromeSankara 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Im rewatching this while I'm dealing with work problems and the amount of "put a pin in it" I had missed the first time is insane. I'm still in shock that this game actually demands money to experience.

  • @liz7457
    @liz7457 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I heard Annika's voice for the first time and went "oh no..." out loud. Jesus.

  • @JeromeSankara
    @JeromeSankara 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This has been happening to Apex lately (outside of literally everything else that is happening in Apex) where I've been away for a couple seasons and I come back to abilities changing and no easy way to catch up without looking at 80 patch notes. I play Bloodhound and their crow ability keeps changing, and now random heroes are sharing recon abilities. Pulling from Loba's black market is different, because i can pull unlimited shield cells and syringes. Lifeline is just DIFFERENT. I played for 3 hours and I still was constantly surprised (not in a good way) in ability changes. I just went back to Overwatch because I can only keep track of one rapidly changing game at a time.

  • @Kagetheorc
    @Kagetheorc 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    New year, same based Viveros championing against predatory business models that are systematically gouging mechanical integrity at the seams. Also, sorry to hear about the burnout. Hope you're feelin' a bit better about it goin' into the year, and are taking regular breaks when you can

  • @Vearru
    @Vearru 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It’s really funny to me how I actually really really enjoyed Zero Time Dilemma. It’s absolutely unhinged, and I like it purely because of that. VLR is my favourite game from the series though, it’s just such an amazing game.

  • @LoBeatVibe
    @LoBeatVibe 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Keji is def the bad guy. I hope the creator takes his time and cooks a delicious ending(s)

  • @awesomeness26108
    @awesomeness26108 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Funnily enough, the entire GOATS to role lock shenanigans happened in real life in AFL (Australian Football). In AFL there's the offence, middle, and defence, and it was standard to have your players evenly spread out across the field, and the aim is for the offence of your team to kick a goal whilst your defence is there to stop the other team from kicking it, and the middle helps move the ball down the insanely long oval. If I remember correctly it was the Bulldogs who came up with a strategy to flood the defence with players, which made it extremely difficult for the opposition to score a goal and they beat a much stronger team using this strategy. AFL now has the 6-6-6 rule, meaning after every goal, there must be 6 players from each team of 18 in each section of the field, preventing the Bulldogs flood strategy. When I played footy as a kid, I remember the umpires would have to remind us of this rule because it was quite a new thing, and I had to consciously be aware of my position at the start of each play to make sure my team didn't get a penalty. Just found the wikipeadia article on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-Flood

  • @thinsporella
    @thinsporella 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    genuine question, why is your fps capped at 60 on rivals?

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      because rivals on pc has been extremely poorly optimized and i had to do everything i could to lower the settings to make it run more smoothly without exploding, especially while recording footage. my streams/videos are only in 60 fps anyways, so i might as well not bump it up and ruin the quality for something people can’t see anyways

  • @itsallwayspouringo
    @itsallwayspouringo 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think constant updating and rebalancing kills the chance at developing unique counters to certain heros and strategies. I think making everyone on a even playing field is a good goal to strive for, but I don’t think it needs constant retweaking until everyone is theoretically within a hairline margin of each other. I think the player base, given enough time and stability, will be able to work out what each character’s niche is and what strategy best counters “OP” abilities. Additionally, not rebalancing as much would help encourage the player base to not just have the entire team be one roll. If everything stays relatively the same, a player might feel more comfortable switching to another role so long as they are somewhat familiar with the character. Now though, a player could be unsure of there ability because the last time they picked up that character was before they were reworked. It promotes only sticking with a character you play consistently because, most of the time, you want to be contributing to your team, and don’t wanna run the risk that feeling out another character could effect you or your teams enjoyment or odds of winning. I also don’t think it’s a necessary a bad thing to have characters who aren’t “meta.” If you look at pokemon, both Articuno and Patchirisu were on teams that claimed major championships, despite neither being particularly good pokemon. This is because the players knew the niche the two filled and how to make them work with the rest of their team. And those are both what I was talking about before with team diversity.

  • @mayo0006
    @mayo0006 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    15:06 this is false, look at the FIA or FIFA or similar governing bodies of sports

  • @tsunderemerc2963
    @tsunderemerc2963 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I've had that happen to me for a good while with Helldivers 2 where it was constantly updated, perhaps obsessively so, until they damaged the game so badly they had to buff everything to restore the fun. Or Starship Troopers Extermination, which is very much a different and worse game than it was in the first few months of Early Access. It's important to hit a balance, because on the other hand, I certainly wouldn't want a character in a game to be bad forever, or a fighting game with like 30 characters to have 8 meta ones that people play exclusively.

  • @jehofjvsehg
    @jehofjvsehg 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    vizinha only means neighbor in portuguese

  • @KazeShikamaru
    @KazeShikamaru 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I just found this channel but found it funny as hell they banned a speedo in swimming for being too good. That's funny as shit being a big sports fan.

  • @SlyElf
    @SlyElf 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Rocket League has been out for 10 years and has had like a single balance patch. If you want to look at adding flip resets as a balance patch.

  • @lazyfish7675
    @lazyfish7675 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    43:51 okay unironically both these games fucking slap, I do wish that death loop was a little bit more polished and didn't quite feel like Arkanes usual quality but it was still a great game

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I feel you, Deathloop was one of the most fun games I played last year but it also had some atrocious performance issues that really hampered it. It’s a shame that we probably won’t get anything like it again for quite a while.

    • @lazyfish7675
      @lazyfish7675 9 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @TheViveros as much as it's also not a perfect game I think prey is probably their magnum opus, or for pure moment to moment gameplay dishonored 2

  • @f7forever
    @f7forever 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    U use the term competitive spirit. I believe in the integrity of that spirit so when u mention any professional sport as a model 4 the way developers should balance their game I believe u contradict urself. The more established cultural games and traditions I believe are what u should be referencing in terms of competitive integrity. Anything done 'prof essionally' is done strictly 2 prof it someone

  • @reverieieie
    @reverieieie 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Harrison in the lust route reminds me sooo deeply of Alex from YIIK. The game very clearly acknowledges they’re both sex pests, but sadly you’re forced to bear witness to it in its entirety. Hell, they even LOOK similar.

  • @jamesvonderhaar2553
    @jamesvonderhaar2553 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    This is good advice for creating fair, formalized competition, but for most game developers, this is not a very high priority, nor should it be. Their priority is making a game that people will enjoy. And balance patches are an easy way to make the competitive environment novel and enjoyable for most players. A settled meta makes for a boring game.

  • @jamesvonderhaar2553
    @jamesvonderhaar2553 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We know, by admission of Mark Rosewater, that MTG intentionally does a similar thing to balance patches. In MTG cards rotate out of the standard format eventually. So you can do things like reprint Lightning Bolt, an extremely powerful direct damage card, in one set, have a few standard environments where direct damage is extremely good, then reprint Shock (a direct damage card that is strictly worse than lightning bolt) once it rotates out to return direct damage to a normal power level. This gives players more puzzles to solve (e.g. players spend most of their time on optimizing, not executing the strategies that have already been determined to be optimal - Raph Koster’s book, ‘A theory of fun for game design’ makes a cogent case for why this learning process should be prioritized very highly in making game design decisions.

  • @jamesvonderhaar2553
    @jamesvonderhaar2553 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The problem is that most of your arguments in favor of consistency apply with equal force to additions to a game. So if we imagined an Overwatch that had never had a balance patch - where all launch heroes had remained unchanged - but we did have every new character, map, and so on, the meta and the skills involved would still be changed as much current, patched Overwatch is unrecognizable to 2016 Overwatch. This is a fully generalized argument against changing anything about a game, not just balance patches. So are you willing to give up Orisa and Brigette and all the rest in order to maintain your consistency?

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Absolutely baffled by this comment, which seems to imply that I said games should never receive an update? Meanwhile, here’s an actual excerpt from the video where I say the exact opposite: “And I’m not saying that you can’t ever patch Overwatch or whatever either. Sometimes it is necessary to crack a meta if the players have found that the optimal strategy is one that goes against what the developers intended and it isn’t really fun - i.e., GOATs - but sometimes it’s better to just leave it alone. Overwatch 1 didn’t need Brigitte to crack the dive meta, and their insistence on changing the game for the sake of changing it led to a genuinely worse competitive and casual scene that it struggled for a long time to work its way out of. Again, real-world competitions also do still update the rules occasionally if they feel it’s necessary to preserve or improve the competitive spirit. But it’s not just a button that should be hit for the sake of hitting it, and practicing restraint in balancing competitive games is infinitely better for them long-term.” If you would like to see where exactly I said this, it was around 33:00. The whole point of the video is arguing against balance changes being done just for the sake of shaking up the balance rather than addressing actual issues, not against the concept of balance changes altogether.

  • @unidentified4122
    @unidentified4122 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think the video is well scripted and edited, I just think some fat could be trimmed like the eurovision point. It felt like that point went on a bit long

  • @loogiemusmaximusoftides8540
    @loogiemusmaximusoftides8540 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    God, I remember when Fallout 4 did the “next-gen” patch and it ruined the stability of the entire game, ONTOP of destroying mods

  • @dragonslair951167
    @dragonslair951167 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I've seen people bring up TF2 as an example of a game that can function without continual updates, but... the competitive meta is a joke. It's almost completely solved. Generalists (Soldier, Scout, Demoman, Medic) dominate the meta while specialists (Engineer, Heavy, Sniper, Spy, Pyro) are all rarely-used at best, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. They had to create a format where you have to use one of every class (Highlander) just to get the other half of the roster to see serious play, and they often still struggle to get a lot done there. If you like playing classes other than Soldier, Scout, Demo or Medic, you're just SOL if you wanna play TF2 comp. So much of what makes the game fun to play just evaporates if you ever try to get truly serious. The statement "players will optimize the fun out of a game" absolutely holds true for TF2.

  • @joshuablaz
    @joshuablaz 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I'm probably in the minority, but I HARD disagree. My favorite eras in gaming are when devs are hyperactive with balance changes. Deadlock changed a fundamental, core mechanic (soul sharing) like 3 times in 2 weeks toward the end of last year. I love when a game enables innovative players by churning, churning, churning. A game doesn't have to be about how much you can hone a skill, but how quickly and precisely you can develop a new skillset. We're always playing soccer, by and large, but this week we're using a beachball. Next week everyone gets a baseball bat. The week after that the goals are elevated up on a 6 foot tall hill. Don't like it? Wait 6 days and it's gonna change again.

    • @weewoowahoo
      @weewoowahoo 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      he DOES mention in the vid that active players can keep up with the constant updates, but casual players will struggle to learn a new meta every time they open up the game. like, if i'm playing basketball, i wanna play actual basketball. i DONT wanna suddenly play soccer or whatever other game for the week

  • @TheMeerpants
    @TheMeerpants 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    19:18 The problem with dark skin and cameras is not a problem of racism, its literally just an issue with light.

  • @manatee8702
    @manatee8702 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think the comparison to real world sports and games runs into issues when you start considering players outside the authority of the competition. Stuff like soccer during gym class doesn't adhere to the rules of soccer leagues because it wouldn't really be fun for the students that just want to be active. That's really the main issue of these types of games, they are constantly torn between pleasing the competitors and casuals because their playerbase aren't segregated by different rules.

  • @Test-rn3js
    @Test-rn3js 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Very interesting video. Been sick of Blizzard's obnoxious merry go round balancing for years. I'm a casual gamer who only likes 2-3 characters in Overwatch and it's very frustrating to have those characters randomly messed with every other season.

  • @WarHammer654
    @WarHammer654 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    It's difficult to compared video game balancing to irl competition though. Video game balance and its need for constant balance stems from the start screen, where you either pick a hero or pick a gun to use. Both aren't in play at the same time (for you). Chess would need pretty constant balance if you had to pick one piece or choose a set of pieces to use at the start. Instead, every piece is in play at all times for both players until captured. Most balance for IRL competition is the overarching rules, or the "gamemode" in a sense. Video game balance is less this, and instead more just adjusting the appeal of the choices you're presented with at the beginning to try to make all of them viable.

    • @WarHammer654
      @WarHammer654 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It's hard to describe but basically irl competitions are always the equivalent of 2 or more people always playing the same hero or using the same guns against each other, there's no choice so it doesn't need much balance. Everything is exactly the same for both or all players at the start, but it never is in video games because of hero/gun picks, or like attack vs defence maps etc. It's literally apples to oranges even at a fundamental level.

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I don't really agree with this argument at all, especially the idea that all irl competitions are the equivalent of two people with exactly even starting positions. For one, you absolutely do have to pick both positions and equipment from the beginning of most real-world sports. A hockey player comes in either left or right-handed, with a stick, skates, and equipment that's been regulated and balanced by a governing body. That is, in effect, your loadout - and it's one that you can change if you brought the equipment to do so. An ambidextrous hockey player is allowed to bring left- and right-handed sticks, or multiple sticks with different curvatures or lengths or materials to meet different needs that they can swap at will. What's more, there's not just a single game-mode to hockey; for one, the game can go from 5v5 to 5v4, 5v3, 4v4, 4v3, or even 3v3 depending on penalties, and either team can choose to add an extra player to the ice at any time by withdrawing their goalie. If the game is tied at the end of the third period, it'll typically go into a sudden-death 3v3 overtime, at which point the penalty rules reverse; taking a penalty adds an extra player to the other team rather than subtracting one from your own. If it's tied after that, then it enters a shootout; if it's *still* tied after 3 rounds, then it'll enter a sudden-death shootout mode until someone scores. And again, there are different positions - a standard team composition is a goalie, a left defenceman, a right defenceman, a centre, a right-winger, and a left-winger, all of whom have to be established in advance of going out on the ice but all of whom can also be moved around between plays, and players might maintain their position but be moved to a different lineup depending on what's needed. They're not just arbitrary positions, either; they involve different skills, but what's more, they involve different equipment. A defenceman will often rely more on slapshots than a forward because the defencemen are more likely to have the time to wind one up, and so will pick a stick that's cut a bit longer to give them more of a swing plus give them more reach on the backcheck. You could also look at baseball, where the ball's qualities are static and standardized but the gloves, bats, and cleats are all individual loadouts - some of which are illegal at certain levels because they were unbalanced and broken. When someone goes up to bat, they pick a bat based on what's useful for them; are they bunting, trying to hit to a particular distance, or just hit as far as possible? You also have to analyze the pitcher when making that call - effectively counterpicking them - and the pitchers themselves are prohibited from certain types of pitches because they were seen as unfair and unbalanced. Players can choose to steal a base, and there are rules about not only how it can be done but how a plan to steal can be communicated from a coach to a player. What's more, both hockey and baseball require players to play set positions in advance, which is a choice. Who goes shortstop? Who's the right-winger? Where you put a player matters, and there are balance rules regarding not only what positions exist but how they can be played, especially in baseball given the asymmetrical nature of gameplay. You can apply this to just about any irl competition - even golf. Golf doesn't have a defender, instead it's just a race to score, but every single shot involves a loadout choice in terms of which club to use for it. Even the comparison to chess is inaccurate, because chess *does* feature a pretty important decision at the very beginning - white or black? If you manage to get your pawn to the other end of the board, you get to choose which piece you promote it to - in effect, allowing you to change the loadout of the game if you can make it that far. The idea that video games are the only types of competition where these sorts of choices happen is just objectively false. I never said they're 1-to-1, but they absolutely do have enough shared characteristics to make it possible to learn from them, and they should do so.

    • @WarHammer654
      @WarHammer654 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ Of course there is irl stuff where this can exist, but the majority of mainstream stuff it doesn't. The equipment people use yes are like a very small example of this but they don't really change the "gameplay loop". If you get a better bat in baseball you're still doing the same thing at bat, it just makes you hit a little better. If you pick a different hero, you get a fundamentally different gameplay loop. And the enemy gets a different gameplay loop on a different character, yet competes against you. People have no incentive to use inferior equipment irl unless the new equipment is too good that it hinders skill expression, which is because the equipment doesn't change the fundamental gameplay loop. Heroes in games do, and people want every hero/gun to be competitively viable because they enjoy that specific gameplay loop. Like it's hard to explain but ig my point is equipment irl sports is more comparable to your mouse or controller, it's not really comparable to heroes or guns inside the game.

    • @WarHammer654
      @WarHammer654 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ the closest example I think you have is like maybe gymnastics because you have different moves you can choose to perform and each of those have to be weighed appropriately with the difficulty

    • @WarHammer654
      @WarHammer654 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ like if your favorite hero is scarlet witch and she's just perpetually bad and not viable in competitive it kinda sucks and if you pick her it's a throw but if a pawn is your favorite chess piece it doesn't really matter because they're always in play for both sides and have an integral part of the gameplay so you don't really feel like they need a "buff".

  • @emilegarcia2369
    @emilegarcia2369 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just wanna say, hearing eurovision 2024 in my video game essay was a pleasant surprise. Netherlands was truly robbed haha. Keep on doing great content!

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Europapa (and then Doomsday Blue) coming up on shuffle while I was working on this were 100% of the reason why it made it into the video, it's such a goofy song and I love it.

  • @rept7
    @rept7 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    On the topic of "optimizing the fun out of games", I do get the argument that optimizing is kind of the deal in a competitive environment. But in a PvE multiplayer scenario, it's still real. Maybe somebody knows a MMO or MMO-lite I don't, but usually, the boring but DPS efficient method takes priority over the fun but slower method. Even in a game like Warframe, you either go alone or go fast. But optimization being a part of competition probably explains why I always drop out of them.

  • @danielbarnes1241
    @danielbarnes1241 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just laying out my thoughts. This seems like a game specific problem because i can count on my fingers the number of games that actually update balance multiple times in a month. And half of them have outright said they be changing thing just to change them flatout. I will also say I'm against slowing down patches. But i am all for targeted or themed ones. I've played too many PvP games that died or fostered a horrible community because we had to wait months or a year for balance changes that don't do enough or actively make things worse. Hell in fighting games you will just not see like 3/4th of the roster unless some autistic dude who's loved the game for 20 years pulls up with Hugo or sonething. Games like Smash Ultimate are very much the exception due to both size and game knowledge mattering far more.

  • @theparodymonster1
    @theparodymonster1 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    the CONSTANT, NUMEROUS, balance patches to league is actually what keeps me AWAY from the game. i played ALOT of League during s3-s7 or so but then i stopped beacuse they changed my favourite character in a way that made him not that fun for me anymore. if i stop playing something like risk lf rain 2 for an extended ammount lf time but then feel "ohh i really wanna play this game now" i can just pick it up. not much has changed. my favourite character still works the same, all my favourite builds are still there and they work the same. i can just pick it up no problem. if i wanted to pick up league again i feel like id need a whole college course. so much has changed. so much is constantly changing. i would LOVE to pick it up again but SO. MUCH. HAS. CHANGED. i just cant keep up. its no longer fun. most of what i liked about the game is either no longer relevant or its just not there anymore. i used to love league. the constant balance patches has actively pushed me away from the game

  • @dodish1225
    @dodish1225 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Average live service game: we need to add a new character every day and rework everything monthly! Tf2: here's a new map you'll never play on.

  • @AnimeOtaku56.
    @AnimeOtaku56. 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Haven’t seen the video but I can already think of a huge problem with balance. Forgetting past patches is a big problem in the gaming scene. Lots of characters will get buffs and or nerfs and those won’t be reverted the next time they buffed or nerfed.

  • @emctwoo
    @emctwoo 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    People also talk about it so backwards, the balance changes bundled into each patch are the excuse to keep pushing more DLC to make money, not the way devs actually make money. If blizzard constantly dumped skins into the game without any patches, people would be far more likely to notice that they’re being milked, so devs instead pretend that those skins are essential to “fund ongoing development”, which means they need to keep that development going no matter how much (or little) it actually adds to the game.

    • @emctwoo
      @emctwoo 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      And of course there’s only one game that’s achieved anything like the broad recognition of normal sports, Starcraft Broodwar in Korea where it’s akin to a national sport and gets actual TV coverage. A game that’s remained unchanged for decades

  • @stormRed
    @stormRed 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I started playing balatro right before you talked about it, blessed moment

  • @leyagame583
    @leyagame583 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I feel like this system is a double edged sword. For many competitive players, balance patches matter. When the game gets solved, there will be a meta, and playing the same meta because otherwise you have less chances of winning can get tiring (I feel like ban systems are pretty good for adding more variety in that regard). Even OTP's are affected by it, because their impact might change depending on how meta their character is. And when you're competitive, you want to increase your chances of winning. For more casual audience, yeah, they enjoy playing the game and usually specific characters regardless of what is considered the strongest. And bigger changes might affect their, lets call it comfort zone and reduce the amount of fun. They like winning too, of course, everyone does, but they just might be at a level where balance affects those chances less. It's not that competitive players don't want to have fun, for us it's just as much about the optimization as it is about characters or playstyles or something else, and it's also about achieving something. It might not be entierly healthy, tbh, because holy shit are competitive games and comp modes sepcifically toxic, but you get attached to the grind. (Wait, I think live service balancing might be preying on that attachment, actually. Whoops)

  • @Khastrx
    @Khastrx 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    At this point, OW season launch patches are so consistent it feels like this... One hero gets nerfed into the ground, another one or two get buffs they didn't even need, and finally new legendary skins are added for Mercy and Kiriko. Blizzard will then act surprised by the data as if they had no idea despite years of collecting such info, and repeat the same thing in the next major patch.

  • @ДаниярБаранкулов
    @ДаниярБаранкулов 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Viveros babe we know u are hella horny for the boys from Hearsteel but that doesnt mean they are in any way are a success 😂 babe hearsteel is alongside TD the least successful music endevour of Riot's

    • @TheViveros
      @TheViveros 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      This is a really bizarrely patronizing way to talk to me, ngl. Especially because I never singled out Heartsteel in any way, and only mentioned them as part of the bigger efforts Riot made to build out their external media.

    • @ДаниярБаранкулов
      @ДаниярБаранкулов 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @TheViveros girl wait im sorry it was not meant to offend 🥲 i was joking alslaososjsj

  • @TeethSkylark
    @TeethSkylark 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Do a follow up on Ubisoft and how they change R6 Siege.