Why Michael Jordan Became The GOAT & Can't Be Dethroned | Gilbert Arenas Explains
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2024
- Paul George and Gilbert Arenas have a conversation about the unequal nature of the GOAT debates #paulgeorge #gilbertarenas
.
.
.
New episodes drop every MONDAY.
Subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the show on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok for all the best moments from the show.
Download full podcast here:
Spotify:
open.spotify.com/show/2VKokYp...
Apple:
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Follow Podcast P on Social Media: hoo.be/podcastpshow
Podcast P Merch: podcastpshop.com/ - กีฬา
To win scoring title, make first team defense, win regular and finals MVP in a season and to be the only one to do it and do it four times is just mic drop.
bron got robbed of dpoy on the heat
That's not that impressive lmao
@@juno6962one time
@@bigz5262 bro mj has one 😭
@@juno6962 my bad dude. I misread your comment
GOATS don't go wandering from place to place to place. They stay on their mountain, and forge those who join them in the struggle to the top, over and over and over...
Nice!
Facts
Whoa this is some real sh!t dude. Nice way of putting it
MJ's 2nd year in, i heard the commentators on tv calling him, The GREAT Michael Jordan. MJ was the best in the league out of the gates. His collegiate olympic team picked apart the NBA Allstar team on national tv when he was still playing at UNC. The late great Bobby Knight who coached that Olympic team called MJ the best basketball player he has ever seen. MJ was 20 at the time. Jordan was just DIFFERENT.
Lebron was called the "Chosen One" when he was a junior in HS. They both had an insane amount of hype around them early on
@@theonlykingAbut imagine Jordan have lebron longevity 😂 Jordan played only 14 seasons won 6 rings, lebron 21 + seasons 4 rings with 2 packed teams huh 😢
@@rodnejean9880Imagine if Lebron retired in the middle of his prime. Media would've killed him. Fans would done more than just graffiti his gates.
@@BigKing17 so is that a compliment to him or what ? Cause MJ retired 2 times and both times it’s like the league was mourning lol
👆The mj and bron fans always got to ruin things with their bickering 😅
Mj has the greatest hero journey's arc ever. He has the myth, the lore, the main character in a story. Its the same shit that makes caesar, napoleon & alexander so famous. We love the would be conqueror. The one who triumphs above all. Jordan was the face of a sport that had just entered the eyes of mainstream media. The people's champ for so long. Dude was a rockstar in the 90s. He was more popular than the sport or the nba itself. Aint no stat beating that.
Dont forget he had the redemption arc as well. He came back after almost 2 years away and was suddenly mortal looking. They all took shots at him. Worked out and dedicated himself like never before and 3-peated again (kind of like Rocky in Rocky 3). That to me, was the most impressive arc of his career.
Shakespearean
Yeah, we can pick apart numbers and eras all day but has any NBA player ever been a bigger name than Jordan? No. And there's no argument either.
And his Myth continues to grow because people continue to chase the "GOAT". MJ was HIM, He was alpha and Omega. One of One. Like Gil said, by the time 1988-89 rolled around and Jordan was in his 5th-6th year, he was already the GOAT. People just didn't throw that term around lightly back then. But folks knew back then they were witnessing the greatest basketball player ever.
His story is not superior to bron
The thing with MJ is that he never took the easy way to championships. He took the beatings, took everything thrown at him, didn't make excuses, didn't feel the need to leave his teammates and join others or ask others to join him to win. Skills, stats, accolades league significance, what he meant to the sport, championships, the way he played, the way he won his championships, how he overcame challenges, etc. etc. make him the undisputed GOAT imo.
Lebron never took an easy was either the fuck you mean .. and Jordan had help . Was lebron suppose to stay on that sorry ass team he was on that wasn’t helping him ? Lmfao the Cavs was ass ! They was only good because of lebron
... And Kobe 👀🥱
@@Pharez85Kobe is not the goat
MJ consistently had one of the best teams in the league by the time he was in his 4th or 5th year. Didn't really need to make the jump like Lebron for example did.
@@boonger exactly . People don’t understand that lebron was on the Cleveland Cavs …….. the only reason that team was good was because of him Jordan lost first round after first round until help arrived and that never happened again … lebron needed to move on
The best way to describe Jordan is he had the intensity and speed of Westbrook, defensively was like a pitbull, had Zach Lavine hops, and had a mid range game of Durant where you're surprised when he misses a shot. He was clutch in the big moments and then developed an unguardable fade away jumper. He didn't take charges, he didn't flop, he didn't sit out games and he didn't back down from anyone.
Didnt sit out of games except for when he quits the game
@@dakota8381 Jordan quit games? Are you talking about his brother Larry? Lol
@@dakota8381😂😂😂😂 You got Kawhi as your pic and got the nerve to say someone quit the game! Dude treats the NBA like a Part-Time Job!
@alvinrichmond305 Nah talking about Jordan the dude who let gambling get in the way of his career and family and then quit a second time because he knew he wasn't going nowhere
@@dakota8381 oh you're a conspiracy theorist. Tupac told u that?
To me what makes jordan the goat is not only his personal achievements not the fact that he has 6 rings, 5 MVPs all these points . It’s the fact that he lost in the beginning , kept working to be the best , when you look at the nba today or even during the early 2000s you could argue who was the best player from Kobe , Duncan , Shaq , Bron , Iverson to Steph , Kd , Joker , Giannis ect… . In Jordan’s era I think he was undeniably the best ever . He 3 peated 2 times . Most people don’t even 3 peat once or even win 2 in a row and never losing when it matters most is just unbeatable. If Jordan won 6 rings but lost 4 finals and went to 10 overall I don’t think he would be the goat . The true feat is never losing when it matters most plus everything else he accomplished on the way
Lol
you can't assign losing or not losing entirely on one player, though. It depends massively on the surrounding pieces and your competition, which is why MJ didn't start winning until Krause and the other folks in the front office brought in ancillary players like Horace Grant and later on Dennis Rodman and Steve Kerr.
Individual greatness is just how well you play the game despite your surroundings, and I believe MJ is the GOAT for that reason, but not for 3-peating twice. That was simply a really fortunate series of events that in large part was out of his control.
Finals record is overrated just give me the most rings posssible. Why should I praise you for losing in the first round but condem you for losing in the finals? It's the playoffs it all counts
Bron been the best, stop…and MJ peaked in the worst decade of the modern era
Kobe the goat.
MJ put the NBA on another level and internationally. Whatever players getting today its because of MJ. Even Isiah thomas admitted it in one of his interviews.
amen
exactly, easy money for them
Best comment so far
Also wilt said back then that each player should give mike 10% of his salary.
When a player affects the economy. He is the GOAT. I seen it unfold as a 14 year when he was drafted until he stopped playing. Ive watched Basketball since 1975 and MJ is hands down the GOAT
Exactly Jordan’s style of play and representation of the NBA made money globally for the sport in products, merchandise, contracts and benefits. Isaiah Thomas said it best “Michael Jordan was good for business” hence he will forever be the GOAT no matter how many records any player ever breaks. Generate more money than Jordan, (Who even after retiring 21 years ago he’s still generating money globally for Nike, Jordan brand and NBA) and maybe you might surpass him.
Goats stay on their mountain. EXCELLENT QUITE!
What Gil and many overlook is this. There were PLENTY of older players who acknowledged Jordan's individual brilliance back then, but they said he'd never be as great as Magic or Bird UNTIL he did some winning. THIS is where ring culture started. THIS is why rings came to mean so much to guys like MJ. He was putting together what still today stands as one of the most brilliant primes in basketball history with the highest peak. But none of that mattered because he hadn't won. They said only Kareem was great enough to win scoring titles and championships at the same time. So MJ goes and gets SIX rings, SIX finals MVPs, and 6 scoring titles while winning the rings. This is partly why MJ became the standard. But the notiont that he didn't get criticized by older players and that his success was all marketing is insane. The man went through the metaphorical grinder and came out the other side. He paid the cost to be the boss.
After 20 years later and no one has the hang time, glides through the air and changes direction in the air like MJ.
Most of the kids know the 96-98 Jordan with the fadeaway. They should watch the 86-91 Jordan who was flying and dunking through the air. Playing both side of the floor at 150 %
This man played full 82 games 9
Times.
Zach Levine has the hang time but everything else you're dead on...Zach is the one dude where I'll say if he was 6'6-'6'7 and had the Kobe type drive the league would be in trouble, go back and look at that dunk contest and see and it will hit you like it did me because you sound like the type of noticer of things I notice ya know?
@@r6-AgentScorpionParkerKRider23
Zach Lavine is like Vince Carter. He has the talent but not the obsession to win like Kobe or MJ.
@@r6-AgentScorpionParkerKRider23I wonder why he doesn’t use his hang time line guys like clide or Doran
@@Duman_59or the knees to constantly dunk without injury. Zach doesn't drive all the time to dunk. Mj seemed like he dunked and landed on pillows. Like he perfected landing to prevent injury.
Jordan had no flaws. Efficient.
He’s right. Everybody is fighting for second, nobody comes remotely close
If you watch MJs Bulls mixtape, it makes you immediately want to go outside right then and play ball...THAT'S what makes him the 🐐..THAT'S why he inspired kids and future players like AI, Kobe, Shaq, DWade, and even Lebron...everyone who saw him play wanted to "be like Mike" and watching his mixtape still does that today.. 100% full speed offense and defense 80-82 games a season... GOAT 🐐 and it's not even close
JORDAN
1) Slogan "Come fly with me
2)"Air Jordan
3 )The sneakers are still timeless
4)"The Black Cat"
5) I want to be like Mike
But everything was the TV and radio back then. I thought the same way, but now these young kids are getting their basketball in different ways. These superstars like LeBron are on Instagram and live streams and things like that. There's so much competition now it's not like it was when we were kids. I remember being in 6th grade and every one of my class was going to watch the bulls and jazz finals game that night. But that's because you probably had 40 channels to choose from and nothing else. Dial up internet, no cell phones. So you were watching TV at night and Michael Jordan was on it so tell us he seems like a bigger celebrity and a greater player but I think there's some bias in that. Jordan was washed at 38, LeBron James is still in an MVP level that has to stand for something.
Now we have..."Taco Tuesdays!!!"
🙄
@@ef3602😂😂
His airness
I say basketball fans in late 40s to 50+ age knows best about who the GOAT of basketball is
Because they watched all Magic, Bird, MJ, Kobe, Lebron's whole careeer
And those people say MJ is the GOAT
That's not the GoaT then, by your logic. It's the greatest player after the 70's.
ikr.
do you even understand what was said he says they watch 70,80,90,2000. any one under 38 only know lebron.
You would have to be almost 60 to have watched Bird/Magic whole careers and Jordan’s. Most boys don’t start watching and undertanding sports fully to about 10-12 years old.
I agree.
"It's hard to beat solo mission....
WITH STATS!!!"
Well said Gil👏🏾💯
What I appreciate about MJ was that he did not take any shortcuts to greatness.
6-0 in the finals is crazy...
It's a nice, round number but it is not impressive vs the rest of the league.
6 for 6!
Havlicek went 7 for 7.
Sam went 10 for 11!
Russell went 11 for 12!
It's a coil stat though.
@@OnYourSquare does havilcek have anytjmg close to the career accomplishments and accolades as Jordan does to add on to the 6 and 0 record . Was he ever the best player on his team during any of those championship runs . NO . So stop bringing up irrelevant players to discredit what Jordan did .
@@OnYourSquare In a horrible singe digit team league....you mfs are so dumb
@@OnYourSquareMJ has everything STATS and ACCOLADES !D!0T
I think 6 for 6 with 6 Finals MVP is what makes it impressive. It's not just a stat, it's a statement.
I watched every superstar player for the last few decades. Watched countless hours of Michael Jordan highlights. There's just no comparison and I'm talking from an unbiased standpoint. You can minus all the accolades & achievements. If you just put MJ on the floor amongst all the other talent he would just stand out the most no matter what. There's plenty of players that are gifted athletically but I've never seen a player who can intentionally and consistently create or change his shot mid air while redirecting the trajectory of where he needed the ball to hit in order for it to go in. He did that every game like it was normal to make those type difficult shots while taking contact or it being contested. To add to that I've never seen a more technically sound player with that combination of overall athleticism, iq, cat-like quickness, strength, quick leaping ability. He developed his game each yr as he aged. It was like the older he got and declined physically he more so was a chess master out there. The off ball movement, him picking his spots, he mastered the game to it's peak. I love Kobe, LeBron, KD, and respect all the players mentioned in them conversations but MJ is in his own league. Overall ability and mastery of the game there will never be another
In the modern era Nba, Jordan accomplished more in less time. While retiring twice in his prime. Its just that simple
…and he was in college for three years too.
It really is that simple
Fr debate ends there tbh. That’s like starting late in the race taking a break twice and the person/people who had a headstart, never stopped, and had more time are STILL chasing you. How are you not the 🐐 at that point ?😂
He had the least in his way too
@@lobmob3235Bron passed mj in every stat category. Wdym? You can't get rings by yourself so counting them in this analogy is kinda weak
It doesn't start with Magic and Bird, it starts with the NBA/ABA merger and Dr J. Julius Erving was bigger than the NBA and wasn't even playing in it so getting him was the main reason the merger even happened in the first place. He saved basketball just by coming to the NBA to play for the Sixers.
Good point. Gil was saying until they concentrated all the best into one league it's not fair to even look at stats. Dr J is great but MJ is still the GOAT on and off the court. He made the NBA a global phenomenon. Air Jordans are a global phenomenon. He earned his GOAT status in multiple ways
What's he's saying we don't get the NBA we have today without Magic & Bird. That's facts because they saved the league becauseno one really watching it like that. The games weren't even broadcast live until those 2 made the league a must watch. MJ took the game internationally and to different level. Not up for debate
You bring up an excellent point. History has details that footage does not explain. If it did, the thought process about basketball from different decades may seem to be understood more.
Thank you. Why they not putting some respect on that man name?
@@kingshard5208thank god u had the patience to explain it cause some ppl just missed comprehension skills
The best stat i seen that set Jordan apart was not the individual statistics but when you put it into perspective of how hard it is to not just get to the top but stay at the top year after year.
Yeah, there were so many amazing things about MJ, but staying at the top for so long was a big one. He stayed at the top for so long, and was so dominant, that a lot of other top players admit that he was so good they were just terrified of him.
Nobody was good enough to stand up to them. Even after mj left they still won 50. There was no team with 4 hall of famers in their prime there to stand in his way. In term of level of play individually, Bron was at the top longer
@@R3vokenDallout1on go look up how many 60+ win teams MJ won against compared to LJ. The bulls drafted talent compared to Lebron creating super teams and recruiting previous #1 draft picks. Dwayne wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard?
That team was a super team from top to bottom. That was organizational competence.
The only knock on MJ should be that 1.5 year hiatus to mentally and physically recuperate after the death of his dad (when he went to play baseball).. basketball is a long grind.. I'm not so sure that 2nd 3peat would happen as easily.. one could say even Pippen could have been broken even further..
what made MJ different was he came in as a rookie and taught the vets and grown men in the league how to approach the game the right way. he didnt fall in the pit of drugs and alcohol that was prevalent in the league at the time. for a young kid right out of college to come brand new into the league and set the tone and set a example and not tolerate any bullshit that would be detrimental to basketball in the face of all these older players, shows the GOAT mentality from the get go. a similar Kobe story would be as a rookie he was still under the legal drinking age. So when his team mates were all hitting up nightclubs and parties he was in the gym. GOAT mentality. Peer pressure and temptation didnt make these men fold and they didnt care what any1 else thought about them, they worked on their game and showed up in games while rest of the league was a lil slower, a lil dumber, a lil more hungover, and not as ready to go. Which is one reason why both those players (MJ and Kobe) were relentless trash talkers on the court. Thats their fkn house (home or away) that court was their home and they felt a way if anyone thought they were gonna come in and show them up on the court PERIOD.
For me that 1988 season trump’s anything we’ve ever seen, winning DPOY, MVP and leading the league in scoring is ridiculous.
Respectfully i dont like talking about negatives to say why a player should or shouldn’t be ranked, but when top 20 players team up to win multiple titles, it makes it hard to give one of them the GOAT title meanwhile 1 guy and his team 3-peated twice in 8 years.
But Gil got a point, they anointed MJ way before the rings because he had an amazing season, so maybe the rings shouldn’t matter as much. But even if we go off that, nobody has eve had a season like he did. And its not like he was perfect either, he still lost in 2nd round of the playoffs.
Jordan's peak was way sweater than anyone else's. By 98 he wasn't what he was 10 years earlier, but he was so far ahead he still could do it. Even on the wizards if you start looking at the stats after jordan started getting the rhythm without injury he was doing very well. But... at 40 his vertical wasn't 48 anymore. Heck after the piston beating in 89-90 he had to bulk up he lost significant portion of his vertical and play style, changing play styles and still being dominant is what makes him the goat. He had a different attitude towards the game and he could change.... Kobe took it to another level but he was intransigent.
He was labeled the goat after that season but best believe if he didn’t win enough rings and mvps it wouldn’t have lasted. People were projecting and to his credit he lived up to and probably surpassed their projections. The people who think lebron is the goat for example been saying it since he beat GS with only 3 titles. But after he won the 4th in the bubble they still use that to make their case.
2013 more impressive if bron wins dpoy and not gets robbed. He won everything but dpoy, first team all defense , first team all nba, averaged like 26-8 smth like that and won it all. 1988 was very good but if it was in todays terms nobody would care as much because it didn’t end w a ring. It would be like jokic back to back Mvp but no chip until last year. Basically
@@colonelgibbs8357 Lebron has always taken plays off on defense. That is why he didn't win. Key word there, IF, he didn't win dpoy and he wasn't robbed of it. He didn't deserve it.
One of the things that I don’t hear people say enough of regarding Michael Jordan is this…
The 1990s NBA had the greatest collection of centers in NBA history. Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Dikembe, Shaq, and Alonzo. That era was perfectly set up to be the greatest era of the big men dominating the league. All of those guys would’ve torn the league apart fighting for dominance if one man didn’t exist.
Hell, Rick Smits is better than most guys in the league today. And Jordan didn't have anybody reliable at center on any of his teams.
Jordan put Basket Ball on the world map. I was a 15 year old kid, in the 90's, in South Africa and pick up a basket ball because of him. Still follow the NBA because of him. What other player has had that worldly impact since, I'll wait...
MJ did the most in the hardest era of basketball. When 3pt shots weren’t taken enough so everybody clogged the paint. Yet MJ…. Still managed to score the same ppg as our “greats” now inside the paint and mid range jumpers. It’s crazy to me that this man can score that easily, i can only imagine how deadly he’d be in todays game with shooters around him.
Devils advocate here, then why didn’t he develop a great 3pt shot to punish the league?
@@DonLee1980 because it was “frowned” upon. Why develop it if you dominate anyways? Yes it’s always a good thing, but no coach back then wants you to throw up 3s all day. That’s why they had people like kukoc and kerr, they’re the ones one are the “specialists”. Todays game, you need it. 3 and D are absolutely needed on championship rosters.
@@AbstrakJakudis It was frowned upon for Steph, and he changed the game forever. Just saying...
@@DonLee1980Jordan publicly said back in the 90’s he wanted to stay aggressive and that shooting the three makes you fall In love and get away from all the other things that are needed etc. same as now everyone wants to be like Steph lol
@@DonLee1980 Also, Jordan shot 38.5% from 3 in the playoffs during the first 3 peat. He could shout it when he needed too. Hell, he didn't even play with a 3 point line until he got to the NBA.
Gil brings up the NBA's drug era every chance he gets 😂
Every era is the drug era for the nba also.
Cause his goofy ass stupid. Never take a man seriously when his name is Gilbert.
@@mostmost1right like these dudes ain’t doing coke and pilling up wilt numbers with the broads😭
@@Dipset415 I know man, I wish that was my life too 😭
Guys still doing drugs now so what's the difference
Jordan, Ali and Gretzky are 3 men who will forever be the pinnacle of their respective sports. What they did, how they did and the time they did it in makes it pretty much impossible to surpass.
He was a 10-time scoring champion and was all defensive first team in 9 of those seasons. The best at both ends of the floor. Enough said.
There's only one player that had the skill level, the killer instinct, 6 rings and 6 mvp's, the NBA global impact, the sneaker game.........all in an era when basketball resembled football and there was no social media. Michael Jordan will always be the undisputed GOAT. Not even close!...........
What separates Mike from everyone else was his intensity and mentality. Kobe is the closest thing to Mike people got to see for those of us who didn’t witness Jordan in real time. He was the blueprint for Mamba Mentality. I don’t think even Kobe would put himself above Mike. Jordan’s drive was just there. He had the confidence coming out of college. And that translated into the league. I think with LeBron being so young at the time when he was…. Being marketed as the ultimate Phenom…. I don’t think he really grew into a confident NBA player until his 6th season. And his killer mentality wasn’t fully unlocked until that 2nd season in MIA. He’s the most skilled player ever because even where his confidence lacked… his abilities as an athlete made up for it. But Mike enjoyed being a dog in the fight too much… even when he didn’t have to and his weaknesses became things he worked on to add to his resume of winning
I disagree. Not many people liked Kobe including myself. F*ck kobe
Jordan is the best player to lace em up at both ends of the floor, with the greatest tenacity, IQ, and a "kill-you" personality that maybe only Kobe ever matched (which may have been manufactured). In the playoffs, Jordan was scoring 33+ppg on efficient numbers, in a slower paced era, while clamping the best wing scorer, grabbing rebounds ON BOTH ENDS, facilitating the offense as both a scorer and playmaker, and leading the team when his teammates couldn't get it done.
Can there be someone better than MJ? Sure. But it won't be Lebron, the guy who folded under pressure so many times that he joined a duo of top 5-10 players in Miami in Wade and Bosh to win "not 6, not 7" and he did say he believed that to ACTUALLY be the case. He then folded again playing the Mavs, while bench guys were outscoring him, and proceeded to dump the Heat as soon as they slowed for a younger Allstar duo in Kyrie and Love, then dumped them when Kyrie left cuz they couldn't win, to go to LA and play with a top 5 player in AD, while begging Kawhi to join... Even if he won 6 more, it doesn't erase his history.
Stop ! I'm the biggest Lebron fan and I cheered for the Knicks during the legendary Bulls Knicks WARS!! I cant stand Jordan for those reasons. However there is no doubt he's the greatest because he got his points the hard way. We (the Knicks) tried to kill him and this man was getting 20 plus points a game back when they used to play grown man defense in the league. When you don't like somebody you scrutinize them with a bias and with all that I still have to take my hat off to him . Its Jordan then Lebron. PERIOD.
Depending on who you ask people will say Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Bron but no matter what decade or when someone started watching and if they have enough knowledge Jordan is always one of the first mentioned.
When looking at the game of basketball I always at defense and offense most people only look at one side. I look at their stats, and achievements some people only look at one category. But what people don’t is ask themselves, if you taking them and put them in era will they still be? and Jordan is one of those few players games will not affect you r he’ll adjust to it.
Year 23 and still chasing Michael Jordan. 😂😂😂
Is his style of play as a freshman did not hesitate to take the last shot to win the championship. Never lost in the Olympics and never lost in the finals and he was like the main guy not just a piece
Look, giving Jordan awards was like giving Messi awards from 2010-2020. He should have been MVP from 86-87 onward every year he played. But voters get bored unless each year improves on the previous one, regardless of whether it was the best year of any player that year.
Despite Lebron having all these assists, rebounds, and efficiency. Michael still has a better PER, offensive net rating, defensive net rating, box plus minus, offensive win shares per 48min. When you factor in the advanced metrics and then add more titles, finals MVPs, regular season MVPs, defensive player of the year, Michael is above Lebron in all time rankings.
If they calling MJ the GOAT in the 80’s and the face of the league That’s cool. But that GOAT talk wasnt going to uphold if he didn’t win any rings. We will just say he was stat padding with no wins. Folks really just eager to take MJ out the convo.
Dudes been saying lebron was the goat since he only had 1 championship . People didn't call Jordan the goat until he won all 6
@@Maxjuliann It was a little before 6. Some people were mentioning it at 3 in fact. It wasn't definitive though until he started the 2nd 3 peat. By the time he won the 4th most people thought he was for sure, and at 6 almost every real fan thought was the GOAT.
@@billj4525 oh nice I didn’t know that 😁 cool to see he had to earn that title of goat
He was in the conversation before he ever won his first title
But what was said is that MJ was a great player but he couldn't lead his team to win like Bird or Magic
That became his main motivation at that point to win as much he could
At the Gil mentioned every decade but jumped the 90´s
This current era doesn’t have any rules. Players travel and carry like it’s as normal as dribbling. Players don’t even play Defense anymore. Players get payed more to do less these days.
Gilbert Arenas hits the nail on the head. MJ was already considered the best ever well before he won his first ring. In fact, in an interview in 1985 - about three months into Jordan's rookie year - Bird called him the best he'd ever seen. This is exactly the eye test that Arenas is referring to. This came from Bird who just won his first MVP and was about to win two more. It's why after the Bulls first championship, Jordan was so emotional as he held the trophy. Imagine being labelled the best ever by so many but not having the one thing you desired the most. After that Jordan became the NBA and, like superman, met or exceeded all of our absurd expectations. And - like the flu game or the shot in 98 - he still managed to surprise and amaze us till the end. His physical traits, skill level, basketball IQ, unquenchable competitive desire, artistry, charisma, and overall greatness - all rolled into one - will not be replicated for a long long time, if ever in our life times. LeBron's career has been beautiful to watch. But having seen both play, there is one difference. After he learnt how to win, Jordan became inevitable.
You can add those TWO 3-peats. Kobe and Shaq did it one time, Lebron? None! You can add that to another check box as in “wanna be the greatest to ever…” check mark this! One could ever imagine if MJ would have remained in the game those two years and we would have been talking about 8 finals in a row and 8-0 and 8 mvps??? What would be said then???
Facts. everybody just fighting for 2nd
Youngins, smh. Jordan wasn't always the GOAT. He was the best player in the league for years before he won that first title. I remember when the news headlines were he's good, but he'll never win a title because he doesn't play team ball, he's a ball hog, he's a gunner. MJ went through hell for that GOAT title. It's well-earned.
Did you see his teammates dummy?
Year ‘88 Mj won every award by himself except a championship. No other player since then has done the same thing
Sure some people will be dismissive about the rings bc its a “team” accomplishment. My biggest thing about MJ is he did it at an extremely HIGH/ELITE on BOTH ends of the floor for so many years which I don’t think people truly understand how hard that is. Especially for a guard. Imagine a 30+ ppg player who is unanimously on the 1st all defensive team every year add to that fact that he’s the main driving force on a title contender add to that he ACTUALLY shows up in the playoffs added to that he’s clutch.
U had to see Jordan play..stay awake late nights just to see the man compete every night to wake up to the fact that he actually is the goat.. Can't explain to hoop fans about his impact on the game who were not around in the 90s..We might be have the same conversation with the kids about LeBron in the 2040s..
What makes Jordan the best for me is a grandmother that don't understand the rules, strategies, zone, pick and roll etc, knew that he was the best. You don't even have to understand the sport. You just know when you see it that boy is a LEGEND.
Cause they’re constantly told by every reporter or everyone in the the internet that’s who they should think is the greatest player.
The eye test says it all.
Most people see MJ and know they are seeing the best and most complete basketball player ever.
You can just tell.
He makes the difficult look easy and then he does the incredible at least once a game.
What current players should focus on is just being the best of your draft class to start, then best in the NBA at your position at some point and then best of your Era.
If you achieve all those then you can enter the room as one of the greats.
Imagine in today's nba
One player wins:
MVP
All star MVP (all nba 1st team)
DPOY (all defensive 1st team)
SCORING CHAMPION
Allstar slam dunk contest
Steals leader
In the same god damn YEAR!!!!
What u talkin bout man, Jordan is on a level of his own bruh
In defense of bill Russell he basically invented multiple concepts of basketball such as a blocked shot and the whole concept of a fastbreak . On the offensive end he was a fulcrum for the offense I.e draymond green, jokic etc. and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
As for the goat debate it’s either Jordan or bron no one else besides maybe Kareem have a real argument.🤷🏾♂️
@@lucendelplantin2839facts 🎯
@@lucendelplantin2839 You talk like a bot.
The bill russell slander is sickening and distasteful
Bron has too many finals losses to be in the convo if you ask me and is just a stat junkie. Its still a two man race for me with jordan and kareem with the edge going to jordan. @@lucendelplantin2839
Bron fans punching the air rn😂
Not really everyone even people who secretly hate it know Jordan is the goat and Bron is the solid 2
@@Beanz06 no the goat talk is mj kobe Bron .
@@Maxjulianncan’t put kobe in there u can’t be a copy and be the best
@@Beanz06 Bron been the best, stop…and MJ peaked in the worst decade of the modern era
Not at all, you heard what Gil said, people bring up other players negatives ALL THE TIME when debating Jordan but never really bring up Jordan’s failures or him "quitting" and constantly coming back at the right time.
The league pushed Jordan as the perfect player from 88 forward, David Stern knew what he was doing, he did what was best for business.
It’ll be different if he played in an era where we break everything down or remember your bad game on January 8, 2011 or some shit like that. So he benefitted a lot from keeping his legacy intact and so now you have folks blindly carrying that on and not holding anything against him. You can’t beat that no matter how good of a player you are, the legacy/advertisement from the media and fans is undefeated.
MJ's journey is what made it better. Drafted by a rebuilding team. He was making the playoffs in his 1st 3 years but kept losing in the first round against 1st seeded teams. Only help he got from the mgmt. after that was 2 rookies. Then he made the 2nd rd and ECF in the following 3 years, but kept losing from the same team (pistons) who won 2 championships in those years. He could've left and join other superstars to chase his 1st ring. But he stayed and continued the grind until he won his 1st ring after 6 years. Then he won 2 more championships for his first 3-Peat, something that Bird, Isiah and Magic couldn't do. He had no one to chase and after his father was murdered, he retired and played a diff. sport. Then he came back after 1 1/2 years and helped his team make the playoffs. He fell short in the ECF, didnt blame anyone but himself. Worked out and got himself in top basketball shape during the off season, and won 3 straight championships (2nd 3-Peat). And after that there was no debate, and he became the unanimous GOAT.
The thing is, Jordan just kept getting better. We watched a man we thought was the peak of Basketball, keep improving.
Even in his trash Wizards years, he started to just get better over the year and actually was dropping buckets before his injury, qnd thats without his 2nd best player being in rotation because of an injury.
From my understanding, Bill chose to focus on defense and rebounding. But he could score at will. That’s what was said.
no, thats not true. His efficiency was too low for a center and it would be even lower if he tried to score more. Bill Russell averaged 15 ppg on a low 44% efficiency
What's the percentage of the players able to play at a high level dealing with the off the court crap he was dealing with and with low pay. Would any of them have the passion to give it their all on the court as well.
Bill and Wilt played in an easy era like today's game.
The whole point on MJ beeing the GOAT is beyond the game of basketball imo. I'm brazilian, my country is all about football and there's a lot of people here who doesn't have any idea how basketball is played. But the thing is, if you ask anyone here who is Michael Jordan, everybody knows him even without any knowledge about the game of basketball. MJ is beyond his own sport and that is a unique spot on GOAT discussion.
Does anyone in your country know LeBron the flopper, who calls himself the goat?
Great content. Here's something to think about. Only 4 NBA players have done this 4 times. 1, scoring title.
2, MVP.
3, 1st defensive team.
4,highest scoring Average in the playoffs.
5,Finals MVP. And that would be.
1,Michael Jordan.
2,Michael Jordan.
3,Michael Jordan.
4, Michael Jordan.
50 years from now Jordan still going to be in the GOAT conversation... PERIOD.
🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐
*THE LOGO
*SOLO MISSION
*IT'S HARD TO BEAT SOLO MISSION WITH STATS.(That hit hard)
MJ the GOAT for real.
We use negatives on why other players can't be the goat because it is MJ who set the standards on what the goat should be and that's what we always refers to whenever someone is debating another player on who is the goat. So whenever a player achieves something, it is compared to how MJ did it and if that player did not achieve it on the same level MJ did it then it's gonna be a negative.
I agree with you said but what gets lost in translation is when players do things that MJ never did and that dont get added to the conversation just mj didn’t do it.
@@ChanBoogie310 100% true
Well said
Thank you
You know what's crazy. Bron has the best career in terms of longevity & diversity. But when you think about it, MJ still has 2 more rings than Bron... So while the longevity is crazy, what MJ did, in yhay span, with just 1 team, is just insane...
Goat debate is in fact simple if you break in down: Greatness when it comes to basketball, on and off the court. On the court it’s a combination of stats, achievements, style of play/skill level, domination over competition, on court “it”factor traits and career’s path/story. Off the court it’s his impact on the public when it comes to the sport, how did people view the sport because of what he did on court, how did people become inspired because of him. When you look at it like that, there’s simply no real comparison, Jordan was almost even too perfect to be called the textbook example of the goat in a sport. Looking at it like this, being greater than him on court is in fact the easier one, though both are practically impossible to one up Jordan, the best you can do may be to match it somehow, which in that case he’d still be the goat cuz he came first.
Mike did it before the internet and was worldwide known and helped make nba global.
Gil said exactly what it is. Everything else is just talk and hate. Jordan got 6 rings in less time than LeBron and Kobe, with more MVP'S and more Defensive player of the year 💯
What made Jordan different was the mountain he had to climb: NBA was a big man’s league, he couldn’t shoot, defense was questionable, ball hog, can’t lead teams to playoffs, Pistons, came back too old, etc. He had so many narratives against him, but he literally took them all and reversed it. Every. Single. Criticism.
He didn’t cry and whine about how the media was wrong. He simply took the criticism and went to the lab. He didn’t deny his faults, he instead made it into strengths. He forced every naysayers to eat their words.
That is something you cannot see in the myriad of impressive stats.
The '80s was the best and toughest era and Magic ruled the '80s.......enough said.
MJ got better and better every single year. That being said, as a rookie, he was better and playing at a higher level than prime Kobe Bryant. Let that sink in...
he’s the only person to have 3k in a season and did it only making 12 threes 😂 only one on the top 5 all time scorin w less than 20 season and he did it in less than 15
Wilt was the first to score 3k in a season but go head and say mj is the only one
You all mention stats and championships as reasons why Jordan is the GOAT, but I personally think that the factors that make him the best are more important. What makes him the best of the best is because he made the NBA global when there were no social networks but still in every corner of the world everyone knew who Air Jordan was. And that i call the greatnes!!!
Jordan has the rings, stats and analytics. Longevity stats I could careless about. I look per season. The greatest scorer of alltime as he has 10 scoring titles. Averaged 30 in the 90’s when the scoring was down across the board. Averaging 80-90 pts a game. Couple that with how unreal he was defensively.
Gilbert arenas first said lebron was the goat now Michael Jordan the goat make up your mind
You are right but dont forget that they also engage brilliant minds with conversations about NBA history. Brilliant minds will make you look stupid trying to crown Lebron as the goat cos there is a very large gap between the two players. It also happened with Isaiah Thomas who usually put sentiment based on his relationship with Jordan. He later came back and said Kareem is the goat cos it is easier to defend Kareem as the goat than Lebron James.
@@Wargee4978lol no it’s not lebron clears Kareem 2fmvps lol. Cope harder bron is the 🐐
Lol there is not a huge gap between Lebron and Jordan. You clearly don’t know basketball. Lebron had been to more finals, scored more points, more 3’s, assist, and almost the same amount of MVP’s . Sure Jordan the Goat but brown right there
@@mxybethegentlemack Jordan and Lebron r 1 and 2 at this point. Kareem probably is 3rd.
@@xoHaj Lol, Kareem has 6 MVPs and 2 FMVPs while Lebron James has 4 MVPs and 4 FMVPs. Dont forget MJ has everything more than Lebron James but you clowns still think he is the goat so dont use MVPs to discard Kareem goat status. I always say Lebron Fans are dumb cos when they are in a battle to proof Lebron as goat, they use criteria that cant be used to defeat another player cos they argue blindly
MJ's aura on and off the court resulting from his work ethics made the difference. His impact to the world, even with lesser rings than the OGs, makes him the GOAT.
I have noticed a pattern (& I hate the term) and that is the people that know Jordan is the GOAT are saying basically the same thing and that is how he overcame all the obstacles that were thrown in front of him and kept coming, he never quit! We haven’t seen that in anyone else since and that is a huge part of the reason he is so unbelievable, he never stopped trying and you knew it whether you were a Bulls fan or the opposition you knew he was going to try and find a way to win and everyone else knew it too and he still would not be denied. He never called himself the best he just put on his uniform and went to work every time he was able and showed up why we couldn’t call anyone else the GOAT but him. He was our GOAT before he even left the game and we have seen things since that we have marveled at but those things were done before and they will eventually be done again but we are far from the game as it used to be and in this new era of participation trophies and everyone is a winner mentality we don’t have the same affection for the game as we once had and all of our heroes are as old as we are or way past their prime and so if we do decide to watch we won’t ask for much just a chance to see if we can spot anyone on the court who does it the ole school way on both ends of the court you know, like Mike.
I see what you did there! 🎉😂 a nice subtle way!
Bill Russell was never a offensive threat. He is a defensive genius. I once watched a game where he got 11 blocks. With 3 of them are chase down blocks. And that era did not count for blocks at all. Defense wins championships. He is the proof of that. The greatest team player to ever live.
Bill Russell is very underrated these days.
like in peoples eyes MJ is great, MJ is the blueprint, MJ is "I want to be like Mike' , MJ is NIKE without MJ NIKE will not get the recognition and popularity like ADIDAS
So personally i have Bill as the goat. But why I'm fine with and respect the basketball community as whole crowning MJ is because while he might not be #1 at anything specific he's top 5 at absolutely everything. He's got scoring titles, MVPs, DPOY, Championships, and he was the face of the league during its most competitive era because he was the most enjoyable to watch while being the best. It's not just stats and accolades, its his entire narrative. Since he was crowned only Kobe and LeBron have had the right to be compared to him. Rn only Luka even has the potential to join them
He is the best scorer ever
Reg season
Playoffs
Finals
Wtf ru talking about
@@jwright2939 being the best scorer is highly subjective depending on what you value MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, KD etc. all have cases which is why I played it safe and said MIGHT not be #1 at anything but top 5 at everything. MJ has the highest career PPG average and highest scoring season of the modern era, Wilt has the highest scoring game and season ever, Kobe has the highest scoring game of modern era, Kareem has the most unstoppable offensive weapon ever, KD is the most versatile. Best scorer depends on what you value most I personally agree but it's definitely a conversation
Yea Mike the GOAT hands down…but dam ur comment is… tell me ur over 55 years old without telling me ur over 55 years old…..
And then u lost me with the Luka comment at the end.. lol… FOH…SMH ….
@@chrismena832TX 🤣I'm 21. And like I said I'm fine with that take but for me Bill's defense and 11 championships is more impressive
@@taetrrtot6205Jordan is objectively a better scorer than them lol. 37 ppg in a season, 10 scoring titles, player with most years of leading the league in scoring and winning the chip, averaged 30 for his career, etc.
GIL and PG gotta do more podcasts together!! 🙏🏼
When I think of Jordan it’s his titles and personal stats but not just that it’s the excitement he brought to the game. Nike is also why he is the goat what players has ever done that!
It’s the whole package and legacy he has!
I’m not sure who can ever do that to surpass him,
I think what gets misunderstood about greatness is the consistency. MJ, Kobe, and Magic we saw them carry their franchises for years through it all because it was all built around them and to not just carry their franchises but also win consistently no matter the roster. Even through bad times as Kobe and MJ did when they’re teams sucked but they all raised the franchises out the ashes to win more championships. They didn’t win championships as free agent pickups to other teams and put themselves in the best situation possible every year going team to team. That’s what separates Lebron and KD from this conversation. It’s levels to this greatness shit and especially the GOAT convo but nobody can tell me Lebron or KDs championship road is even comparable to those 3 guys in greatness. It’s harder to win in ONE spot than multiple spots along with having some type of autonomy to say who is on the roster and who’s not. I’m still trying to understand how this shit be a debate with these guys in the convo lol
They weren’t free agent pickups
Bill Russell's just Ben Wallace with 11 rings, during an era with 4 teams. One of the greatest defenders and rebounders, but had no offensive aresanel.
Shhh! They don't wanna hear it. lol.
You shouldn't repeat what Gil says about NBA's history, because he knows nothing of it.
Russell chose to focus on defense and was a huge part of their offensive scheme, even if he didn't score a lot. He was an essential part of 11 titles. 11-1 is more impressive than 6-0.
@@joshuasteward6097a lost is a lost and there is not one on MJ resume.. more rings though as an achievement.
R.I.P to the late Great Celtic Mr.Russell
If you look at the overall stats and accomplishments, Michael actually did MORE in LESS time on both sides of the ball than a lot of these other players. That's why he's the goat
Truth be told, NBA players did have the moves of today, the only difference was coaches considered a lot of the dribbling moves as "showboating". Players got benched. In addition NBA dribbling rules also changed.
But his numbers are still better. If you literally just look at numbers, that is still the best individual season. If you just take numbers and accolades, MJ still better than Lebron. Lebron has better longevity numbers, but if you take their best five seasons, offense and defense, MJ numbers are better. They are just better numbers and better accolades
What people don’t understand is that 40% from the field for when Russell played is actually pretty good.
Especially when you consider there was no dunking allowed
Yes Russell's FG% was actually above his league's avg for his career. Russell's FG% equated to league average today would be 50%. Not crazy high but 50% is not bad by any means.
MJ, actually, said it well - it's silly to compare different eras. Different rules, different strategies, different knowledge of our body and how to make it better...
He is correct, for the most part.
Jordan's career could not have been scripted better.
The time he arrived, the city he played in, the state of the media, the lore of having to overcome the Bad Boys and learn how to win, his personality, his competitiveness, his looks, the beauty of his game, and on and on and on.
I grew up near Chicago in the 80s and 90s. I view him as almost supernatural. I never want to meet him because it could hurt my view of him.
Th six rings and the accolades are icing on the cake, but people were saying MJ was GOAT in 1989 before he had won a single ring.
Gil's not arguing in good faith. You hear about Magic and BIrd's weaknesses all the time. Magic wasn't a good defender. Bird was he was slow and unathletic. MJ's knock when he first entered the NBA was "he shoots too much, he's a ball hog, he doesn't play team basketball, he showboats, then later "he can't shoot threes." That all still achieved greatness despite their limitations. MJ learned to trust his team. He lived in an era where the "good'' 3 point shooters only took a few a game. But the only guys in the current NBA who play somewhat close to MJ's intensity was Westbrook, and he's not as good a defender, shooter, clutch. Giannis plays heard but can't shoot or pass like MJ. So Jordan was about as good as you can get. We'll never know if he was in this era if he would have been a decent 3 point shooter. But he pretty much had all of the other skills, continued to grow his game, and he played all out.
@@aMyFy You can dare to say whatever you want, but since we have no way of knowing how things would have gone without Winter or Jackson it's all speculation. I have the same response to people who claim the Bulls would have won 2 more or lost both if MJ hadn't retired. We have no way of knowing.
Gil ALWAYS tells half truths smh he’s a paid asset. “Agent zero” for a reason.
UNC, & 1984 Olympics destroys the myth that MJ didn’t trust his team, when he actually had teammates who loved basketball, & that were actually great at basketball. Bulls were drug addicts, and bench players, everyone in 1980s. Pippen, Grant, joined in 1980s.
@@honorfirst7506 Great point. He beat ALL NBA teams in exhibition 8 straight times. His best players on that squad Mullen, Ewing.
Yeah he flip flops a lot. He was always Bron is the GOAT. until he asked lebron to help him be an assistant coach on the Lakers. Lebron didn't do that. Now he switched up. You can't trust these bitter ex-players.
Wemby might be the next guy who in the future people look at and go "I have never seen somebody this good". Ofc it's way too early to say that and we've gotta wait but what Wemby is doing now is special.
Wemby it talented, but he hasn't been the best rookie this season, and that might mean he isn't headed for the GoaT-convo.
@@penkima4923 He is easily better than Chet. Chet is a 2nd year player and we've seen many times how rookies took a huge jump in their sophomore season. If you look at guys like Simmons or Blake Griffin who were 2nd year rookies they didn't evolve as much after their "first" season compared to the actual rookies that year. Wemby was cooking Chet a few years back aswell and the only reason it's close now is because Chet is in his second season.
The spurs got wemby and are on track to win the same if not less games than last season making them the worst in the league again. When failing franchises drafted players like carmelo, lebron, shaq they basically doubled their record from previous year. Wemby get's highlights but for now he doesn't effect winning in the curent NBA.
The problem with the debate no one knows how to debate it. First we have to figure out what are we debating. Is it the best playing one on one basketball? . Is it the best person playing TEAM basketball?
Its more than rings the more you research Jordan and his stats you will be like man this guy was so so cold I know I watched them all and no one compares.
Kareem MJ and Wilt... Everyone else is playing for 4th*
Wilt is not top 3, stop
-- Wilt was probably one of the most athletic bigs ever. But Russell kept him in check.
I'll give Lebron #3 career wise, but with game on the line and I need a bucket, Lebron ain't on THIS list. It's Bird and MJ. Everyone else is fighting for 3rd best.
Kareem and Wilt play a goofy style of basketball similar to LeJuice.
I love the grounded reality of this channel!!!
Retirement took a toll on my finances, but with my involvement in the digital market, $27,000 weekly returns has been life changing. AWESOME GOD❤️
I'm in a similar situation where should I look to increase income? Do you have any advice? What did you do ? Thank you
Wow that's huge, how do you make that much monthly?
I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested Ms Mary Margaret.
She's a licensed broker in the states 🇺🇸
It's not frustrating when you actually think about it..... The way the way the game is structured, when you take everything that makes basketball so exciting as a team sport, and you make it so one-sided in favor of the offense, it's not as exciting because what was once exciting is now common place. Because nobody is or can really play good defense. No I'm not talking about 1980's Bad Boys defense but actual real good playable defense, and so when you have more of one thing without a balance, it throws the thrill and excitement of the basketball games because it nolonger has a real filter that holds the good players at the level they should be looked at and have the players that are truly a cut above the rest rise to the occasion. I believe that if they still played NBA basketball like it was played in the mid 90's to the early 2000s, folks would look at some of these player's differently.
Even Jordan’s journey to greatness is like a novel. It’s unreal. Like it was destined to happen. From his basketball achievements to his sneakers
I'm glad PG got his podcast cause I never felt quite real watching Reddick. PG explains terminology, all sorts of angles and approaches. JJ is like watching the news' sports caster.
I appreciate both, but ur point makes no sense...it's actually reverse? PG and co-hosts always engage in the weekly 'gossip in the NBA (Draymond vs everyone)' and even THIS clip itself is a First Take mainstay debate for years (MJ vs LBJ). While JJ gets current players to share origin stories, personal experiences, and even has a series with coaches to discuss schemes and their approach. So much shit gets told on there that would otherwise never get told from players lol the more I type the less your take makes sense
It must just be me. I must tune out the drama bit. All I know is PG teaches me more about the in-game than I learn from JJ. JJ sounds like a stats sheet to me, talking about dry ass analytics and things, and does macro-speak better. PG sounds like a player who's on the court (I hear nuances). (PS:I know JJ played) So PG for me for my Micro-NBAonomics and JJ can be for Macro-NBAonomics @@breezyk724
Hard to accurately assess Bill Russell with limited stats and film from his playing days. But all his peers from his era have the utmost respect for his career accomplishments and consider him one of the GOATs for it. Bill recognized himself that he wasn't an offensive superstar, but he said he played to make everybody else better around him in order to beat you. He provided instant impact for the Celtics after being drafted by them, and was one of the greatest defenders of all time. He was intensely competitive, performed very well in every game 7 he played (i.e. clutch), and was a great leader. He focused on winning and willing to win, and that's what mattered in an era without commercials, televised sports news, endorsements, social media, etc. to market flashy offensive talent.
A player can't be the GOAT if they are lacking in offense or defense. For a example, let's score them from 1-10 on offense and defense.
Bill gets a 5 of offense and a 9 on defense for a total of 14.
Kobe gets a 9 on offense and a 9 on defense for a total of 18.
One stat not talked about is MJ averages the most points per game in NBA history. Even when he came back still above Wilt.
Finally Gil coming around to facts MJ and then everyone else😊