HELLO!!! I want to spend time with celebrities. Just kidding. GAGAGAGAGA! I only want to spend time with my two girlfriends and record TH-cam videos for with the 3 of us. OH YEAH. Don't hate me for living the best life, dear ronan
Yes them and KIA are moving up. I have a 2013 Gencoupe with 125K and it runs great stock clutch no problem.The only thing I don't understand about the Veloster is its the same 2.0 engine as mine put they only do 260 on the torque where mine does 274 they should have raised it to the same level. Hope they put in the new 2.5 engine in it in the future.
@@cindysue5474 I have a 2011 Gencoupe with over 131k miles. Runs like a top still. I have a 2020 Veloster N w/PP. The N is a such a blast to drive. Sadly, this weekend it goes up on jacks for the winter thanks to the P Zero OEM tires. The Gencoupe with winter tires is fun to drive when is snows with the RWD.
@@cindysue5474 Hyundai and Kia have been killing it at least since I bought my Forte Koup back in 2011. Downside is that I can't get anything like the value I could then, when the value difference vs. say a Honda was just embarrasing. :(
they are sponsoring every single car youtube (at least that I watch) and its making me wanna buy one and its not even available in my country and I don't even have money to buy any kind of cars lol
Owning a DSG car, and several manual transmission cars, I love them both. The DSG is ultra fast, and blipping the paddles is oddly satisfying. Plus in traffic it's great. Obv rowing gears is it's own set of fun. Basically if you can't have fun driving either, you're not trying hard enough. Also DSG is faster soooooo ;)
As a die hard manual fan who's never owned an auto ever, DSG is the superior transmission, hands down, in almost every way except for cost, complexity and reliability, but that's simply a factor of physics. In every measurable, practical, real-world way, the DSG is the only good option. Period. Yet, I'd pay more to own a manual. Thankfully though, I don't need to 😂.
Owning a DSG car, I agree. The paddles are great fun, and the transmission is especially effective with turbocharged engines where maintaining boost through gear changes is essential.
Thanks for voicing your opinion @HumbleMechanic. 13:35 of excellent information from Jason, but no opinion? Get crazy @engineeringexplained and tell us how you really feel! :) I love both of them but if I have to pick a winner I'd say DSG all the way. Both are fun but it's hard to argue with more performance.
Sooooo nothing! Ther's always something faster. But DSG is just another automatic, though a more direct feeling one. Nothing replaces the feeling of taking off uphil or rolling in neutral while in traffic. You do not need to go fast to enjoy a manual.
Thanks! Really appreciate hearing this because they take a lot of planning, and doodling! Especially ensuring the gearing looks reasonably correct (like 1st vs 2nd sizes, etc).
I was noticing that too. I'm a fairly proficient technical artist and was thinking, no way that's his first attempt at drawing all that. Nicely done Jason, some of your best whiteboard for sure. Do you have a favorite whiteboard?
It's one of those things almost no one will pay attention to when they are done correctly, but most people will complain about when something is off :D
As a Hyundai tech, I really appreciate this video because you explain in far more detail what is going on in their DCT. We have our own training for them, but I feel like you make it much easier to understand. It's great to see Hyundai reach out to independent creators like yourself to showcase their new vehicles. I'm lucky enough to have driven a Veloster N myself, and it was an amazing ride. Awesome video!
@drickph3066 why would they be? 7 speed actually makes more sense from a packaging standpoint than 8. Reverse can be added to one of the shafts giving you 8 gears in total.
I have the Veloster N with the DCT. Too early for me to say about reliability, but other than that, it's a great transmission! They nailed the programming on it.
@@YonkoPapa Just over 20K miles on a 23 Kona N I daily drive in MN and I have had no issues what so ever with the DCT its fantastic to drive and I dont notice the slow speed or traffic hiccups that are referenced often with DCT's so as a Daily the DCT is fantastic and super responisve
@@gusbusb9 right on! That’s good to hear because the DCT is definitely going to to be my choice when I go to check out an Elantra N. Yes, the stop and go kind of traffic is what I heard can destroy the DCT’s faster than usual, but that’s why everyone ive heard suggest the same thing which is constantly feeding gas vs letting the car lurch forward by itself. Even if it’s just a smidgeon of gas, that’s what is preferred over allowing the vehicle to move just off the clutches.
I personally know two people who've had their Nissan CVT fail and bought new cars (not Nissan) instead of replacing the CVT.......On the other hand my Honda's CVT has never given me an ounce of trouble.
Hi Jason-as mentioned below, your skill at white-board has been turned up to 11 on this post. The clean drawings with digital overlays has really helped me to visualize what is going on here. Always look forward to what you will tackle next!
Kind of late to view this video. The information here is so accurate and wonderful advice. TLDR: 1) if you want to commute in bumper to bumper traffic - DCT 2) If you have a damaged / broken /sore / lazy left leg - DCT 3) If you want the ultimate performance on a track and save every micro second - DCT 4) If you want a weekend fun machine - 6 sp man 5) If you daily commute is easy - 6 sp man (honestly - OR DCT) 6) If you want more driving engagement - 6 sp man 7) If you want a lighter car - 6 sp man 8) If you want to dictate when the gears shift up and down if chilling OR pressing on - 6 sp man IMO there is no wrong choice. Both are excellent transmissions and would not judge either option. Personally, I am old school manual and (for now) are not bothered by 1 to 3. Own a i30N (non-USA hatch) with 6 sp manual as well as a Kia Rio GT line with the DCT. Both awesome, with quite different uses in our family. No idea on long term reliability as the DCTs are still quite new.
0.2 vs 0.5 sec isn't as big of a difference in shift time as I expected. Personally I always prefer a manual, a car not offering a manual option is a deal beaker so it's great to see hyundai still supporting enthusiasts with their performance models!
If you think about it another way, it's 0.5 second loss of acceleration with manual versus basically 0.0s loss of acceleration on DCT due to clutch overlap.
Quite possibly the best video explaining transmission. This video should never be taken down. Been a fan for yrs but this is the first time I felt compelled to say thanks and I hope more people appreciate your work.
@@andy42x Also, if you intend to "drive" that DCT "like an automatic (hydraulic)", you will be having FREQUENT down time due to excessive clutch wear! You HAVE to avoid "creeping" in stop and go traffic and using the transmission as a "hill holder"!!!
As a European, who grew up with stick shift, and haven’t seen an automatic until I was a grown man, and only used paddle shift in racing car simulator games, I consider manual as the boring option, and automatic with paddle shift as the exciting one.
Hyundai definitely listened to the drivers, if the N DCT was around when I got my MK7 GTI DSG the decision would've been much harder to make. Big props to Hyundai!
Damn i felt in love with Hyundai N division since I bought my 2017 I30N! Thanks for this crystal clear explanation! Keep the good work, I love your content!
Two other points worth noting is that the manual transmission, being far less complex, is less prone to failing. And the manual transmission will be considerably cheaper to replace.
Therefore .. the Dual Clutch is the best (for the Repair / Replacement Industry). More like Replacement .. genuine 'Motor Mechanics / Repairmen' are, in this day and age, scarcer than Hen's Teeth.
Love that you speak rapidly but extremely concise and understandable. I got lost on the last tranmission, but found with your vids, if I watch them a second time I usually get it. Wish I would have know about you when my son was little, he needed a smart cool guy role model!
One disadvantage you forgot to mention for the dct is when you want to change to the gear that isn't engaged. I.e. the computer is expecting you to upshift as you coast up to a red light, then the light turns green, you put your foot down, and are actually wanting to go down a gear. It can take as long as a second on some dct to change that way, because the computer has to engage the lower gear before it can engage the other clutch. It isn't that big of a deal when driving on a track or driving hard, because that makes it easy for the computer to predict what gear you're going to need next.
The most annoying thing about my Kia Soul with the DCT is this. Coming to a almost stop, and going again feels like the car is slipping the clutch briefly and takes a second to catch. Other than that it's been lots of fun to drive, but it has a learning curve unlike a traditional auto. If you're just driving in D and floor it, there are times it will delay before taking off quick. I fix that problem by switching to manual mode and downshifting before I floor it lol.
I think the other issue is that it tends to encourage you to floor it, because you're not getting as immediate response as you're used to with the car when it happens, which can end up engaging traction control when it eventually does drop down a gear, making the delay even worse. All that said it's still way less effort to drive in stop and go traffic than a manual, so worth the trade off for a daily driver I think.
I thoroughly enjoy my modern manual turbo vehicle. One of the main reasons I’m holding onto to it due to the transmission as many car manufacturers are slowly stopping production of manuals.
@Munshat Rahman Not sure if it's the power shift variant, but the auto transmissions on their focus suck. Class action lawsuits and whatnot. Though I doubt the dry clutch is the issues, but rather the overall design is flawed.
@Munshat Rahman Exactly, very unreliable, some challenge if there is a worse transmission in existence when it comes to reliability. Class Action lawsuits, recalls, etc etc.
Disadvantages of DSG (for my 2016 Mercedes CLA 4motion): 1) shifting is artificially delayed -- shifting execution is delayed -- one can put multiple shifts into the delay queue before the first one is started to be executed (VERY confusing) 2) Cannot shift from 1th to 2nd with RPMs lower than 2000 -- shift command is ignored. Requiring slow acceleration in the first gear when one attempts to stay in the sane RPM range 3) sometimes VERY rough shifting -- which would cause the car to get out of control when driving close to the limit (or on wet or icy roads) 4) kickdown switch also enabled in manual mode -- causing accidental downshifts into very low gear requiring an abort of the acceleration in order to stay in the sane RPM range Advantages of manual mode of DSG compared to automatic mode: 1) enables faster acceleration while staying in the sane RPM range.
Outstanding presentation. I continue to be impressed by your ability to present complex topics clearly and quickly. Your drawings and overlaid animations in this presentation are excellent. Thanks for putting in so much time and effort on this.
I really liked Mr. Explained's graphical example of the difference between manual and dual clutch transmissions. After driving more than 48 years I see other advantages to manual transmissions that were not included. Manuals almost never break or need maintenance beyond a clutch replacement. Due to greater control, manuals get significantly better mpg than DCTs (as shown by fuelly.com). But the greatest advantage of manual transmissions is what Mr. Explained described as "driver engagement." He was talking about driving on a track, which almost none of us do. What I take driver engagement to mean is manual transmissions force you pay enough attention to driving such that when an emergency situation arises you are able to respond quickly enough to keep on living. Whereas with an automatic transmission, which is what a DCT is, you are lulled so that when the emergency arises you die. That is why we are adding automatic braking to new vehicles - to try and reign in their automatic transmissions.
I have owned 4MT, 5MT, 6MT, 4AT, 5AT, 7AT, CVT and eCVT (hybrid). I prefer a good 6MT (manual transmission) given a choice, but when I had the opportunity to drive a DCT for about a week, I was impressed. The gear changes and the direct driveline engagement felt like a traditional manual transmission. The only other non-manual transmission car that left me with a strong impression was Skyactiv 6-speed auto in a Mazda 3 rental car. Programmed to lock up the torque converter as much as possible, it also had the direct driveline engagement, much more than in a regular auto,
I have owned both and prefer a manual by a wide margin. I drive quickly but am not a professional racer. I was taught (on a race track) that, prior to entering a corner, you should brake in a straight line, select the gear you want to be in through the corner, then enter the corner, and then accelerate through the corner. A DCT will often shift up or down in mid corner, upsetting the apple cart. You can put a DCT in a pseudo manual mode to mitigate this, but you still may need to downshift multiple gears prior to the corner, one by one. This takes time and is a distraction to a quick non pro driver trying to set up for a corner. In a manual you rev match, select your gear, and then simply concentrate on the corner knowing that there will not be another gear shift until you make it. The corner becomes the focus, not the gear. In a DCT I spend way too much time concentrating on what gear I am in, often getting it wrong unless I glance at the dash, the last thing I want to do setting up for a corner. In a manual I know from the position of the shifter what gear it is in. No glancing at the DCT gear indicator or counting up and down shifts. No computer mucking it up if I don’t have time to choose manual mode on an unfamiliar corner. I am fully in control, for better or for worse. It’s much less stressful. That said, for a beginning quick driver a DCT is the way to go. Most of the time a DCT selects the right gear and mid corner shifts are not upsetting to a beginner who is not near the edge of grip. For a driver a notch up, like me, the manual is the way to go. Set and forget, drive the corner. For a pro, the DCT is the way to go because a pro brakes deeper into the turn, may shift in the middle of the turn, can handle torque changes mid corner, and doesn’t need the calm of a steady, preselected gear. But I ain’t no pro. I’ll take a manual as long as they continue to make them. After that, I’ll go electric!
@@FXIIBeaver Motorcycles have them. Some bikes even have "quick shifters" where you can shift without using the clutch at all. Push the shift lever and the ecu briefly cuts power to the engine and you slip into the next gear. You can also do the same thing manually of course but the computer is better at it.
My 2015 Ford Focus (dct automatic) is fun on highways but inching through heavy traffic or inching up steep hills is a pain in the ass. (it also has the same problem as the earlier Focus dct models: rough shifting between gears 1&2.)
I really hope to get an N with the DCT next year when my lease comes up. I currently have a GTI with a DCT (DSG) and its great, I've absolutely loved it but ready to move onto something new and the Veloster N with a DCT is my dream next car. I can't wait to test drive one and hear that exhaust note in person.
@@Wvlfmane personally, the exhaust note on the DCT is my only gripe. It is a lot of great burbles but zero pops. It only popped once, but it was loud as hell!😁. I’m getting an aftermarket exhaust ASAP.
I grew up in the 50's, and attended high school in the 60's. A manual trans was simply a macho man's car. I had three GTO's all manual trans. I love the sound of running through the gears, and that is simply not the same with an automatic, as we used to call them "slush boxes". I had British sport's cars, two Corvettes, an Audi TT, and a bunch of BMW's. The only problem I have with the automatics and new dual clutch trans is you cannot run through the gears with up shifts,with same beautiful sound of the freeflow exhaust. I used work with Mercedes Benz Road Racing, and I certainly get the purpose of dual clutch transmissions, as the shift points are in micro seconds. I also get the reason for that tech moving down into the street car market. But for me nothing replaces the joy of a manual. Most young people can't even operate a manual. My own four sons were proudly taught on manuals.
Well, relatively speaking. I've only been in a couple of DCT's so I don't have a lot of experience with them. A buddy of mine has a Boxster S with the PDK and it's pretty darned good. He "drives" it but he also maintains it and after 3 to 4 years now, it's going strong. Long term remains to be seen but he and his wife tend to keep cars like this a minimum of 10 years so I guess we'll find out eventually! ;-)
Yeah, just like Ford, Hyundai has had their share of "class action" DCT lawsuits. Specifically, the '16, '17 Veloster. But, these involved their "dry clutch" DCT. Let's hope that the "wet" ones work out better. Btw, the dry clutch has less power loss than the wet clutch, so the Veloster would be even faster with the dry clutch!
Very good drawings and concise explanation, loved it! Now could you delve deeper into how the clutches operate? Electro-magnetic clutches, electric slip rings, oil bath? How is that all put together?
Drive a regular Veloster since 2103 and love it. Gets excellent gas mileage and for the first few years I received a lot of positive comments about the styling, not so much any more as there are alot more on the road. It would be great if they made a AWD version of the N model.
Thank you to the companies that give people the choice of manual or DCT. I thoroughly enjoy my DCT car and will never own another manual transmission car. I drive my car in manual mode most the time, but when I don't even want to think about shifting, I let the car do it.
@@limabean6869 I don't really get this comment, I've always driven manual (I live in Spain, it's normal here) and traffic can be frustrating but I don't think it's that bad, you actually practice and get a better feeling of the clutch that way. Either way, you do you, I'll keep my manual, hope you have fun on your DCT
All I heard “...bla bla bla..., clutch’s are fun....bla bla bla...complication equals potential problems....” (thanks for the video Jason - keep up the good work)
i have a 2020 sonata with the 1.6T (thanks to this channel) it also has a 7 speed DCT, love the package but slow city driving can be a little jolty from the transmission shifts, but that's what makes highway merging so fun. wish there was a sport mode and calm mode for the transmission
I will always choose driver engagement every single time through MT. It’s not always about sheer performance; it’s about the experience and interaction, getting to know your car.
You're being fooled. Your throttle is being controlled by computer. So are your brakes.MT's are throwbacks that are out of place on today's cars. They perform poorly by modern standards. I drove them for most of my life, but gave up when they lost the economy and performance advantage to DSG's and modern automatics.
@@johnstone7697 You obviously didn't read my comment. I said, it's not always about performance. Oh btw, MT are overwhelmingly common in Europe to this day, so don't tell me they're out of place on today's cars.
@@johnstone7697 in the name of efficiency you just become boring. Most manuals feel like afterthoughts because they are. Horrible ratios, built in rev hang, lifeless clutches. Sad really
My first car was a MT that I drove for nearly a decade before I couldn't afford to fix it. I was able to rev match pretty much every practical gear change, including large jumps from 2nd to 5th and vice versa. Yes, I dogged it some times. Then I had automatics because I just wanted a car and the wife needed to be able to drive it. Our last car was a Ford with a dual clutch. I recently got a latest model Subaru CVT and I must say I am pleasantly surprised with its initial impression. What I've missed most from driving a MT is that feeling of the engine transferring directly to the wheels. ATs have always felt "sloppy" to me and the DCT Ford... well.... It's not exactly as good at shifting as I was with a MT. One thing that I do really like about the CVT is the constant torque transfer to the wheels. Other than when you launch the car, once the torque converter locks up, it feels just like a manual transmission when accelerating, except whole the shifting thing. Side note, the CVT simulates shifts faster than the Ford DCT could actually shift. In a way the CVT feels "more" visceral than an MT in how it is always transferring torque to the wheels and seems to stay at the optimal RPM. But less visceral in the sense that I am losing a dimension of interaction. But all of this is moot because my next car will be electric. I don't think I'll actually miss shifting gears over all. One thing I have learned about no shifting is the amount of control you maintain. There is a large high speed curve over here that when your AT decides to shift, that brief loss of torque to the wheels can throw you off, not to mention the surge of sudden torque after the shift. But with a CVT, the torque is always there even if changing due to ratios changing, and keeping control of the car is much easier. Though some of that could be the Subaru's symmetric AWD not having torque steer. I will forever have nostalgia for driving my MT. It was a good car during my high school and college years.
Except cost and weight, yes. There are some multi disc (dry) clutch manuals out there, and being in oil would help with heat, and prolong life in times it needs to be slipped. Tractors have used wet clutches for years. They have more clamping force, and last longer.
@@tangydiesel1886 Initial cost only, I guess? Cause if it helps to keep them alive for longer, the additional cost of maintenance could potentially be cancelled by the higher longevity.
Other than the previous 2 responses, another disadvantage is the complexity of the oil system. Dry clutch systems don't need to be airtight whereas the wet system needs to contain oil without leaking. My MT car has a little removable inspection plate for the clutch/flywheel which would not be possible with a wet system. Edit: but an automanufacturer could totally do it if they wanted.
Motorcycles have using them for decades. Look up motorcycle powered cars and trikes. Haveing build a reverse trike powered by a FZR 600 engine, it can be a pain to get the vehicle moving. Wet clutchs like to be off or on and there isn't much inbetween. Expect to stall out repleatedly especially when using a foot operated clutch pedal...untill you get used to it.
Since a DCT does not have a torque converter and uses clutches how does it start you off in 1st gear without an instant power engagement, in a manual you let the clutch out slowly, does the duel clutch do something like that?
100k on my DQ250 equipped audi. Stock clutches with around 400 bhp going thru them. 0 problems. hopefully hyundai's would be built just as well since mine is from 2009. DCT's are just as robust as standard manuals, given the fluid is changed regularly. Clutch packs are replaceable as units typically.
I don't see the point of another car companies trying to ''innovate'' and create new and different type of transmissions, when Toyota first introduced the planetary gear set on their hybrids, a system which has no belts nor chains, just gears that rotate and 2 electric motors, it just can't be more robust, reliable and efficient yet the parts only rotate. Others should stop making more complex and less efficient transmissions, Toyota made the best of all, just copy it.
Well explained, but one major Disadvantage of the DCT is that it is controlled by a computer and the program it is running. Many DCTs will prevent upshift & downshift that will not cause redline and will automatically upshift & downshift when in manual 'M' mode (i.e., PDK), hence there is really no true manual mode at all. A manual gearbox doesn't have that problem.
@@procerator yeah DSG is infamous now with being expensive time bombs. maybe the newer ones are more reliable but i would be scared of driving an vw with dsg out of warranty. so alot of people. aisin ftw!
I have a 2014 Audi A7 S-Line with the DSG transmission and I LOVE it. The upshift farts and downshift revmatches never get old! On top of that it can either shift EXTREMELY smoothly or EXTREMELY fast depending on the mode and what ur doing.
I think the choice of DCT vs manual comes down to your driving preferences, and your proficiency with driving manual. If you're looking for speed and convenience, DCT really is the best option. If you're looking for engagement (and speed, again - proficiency with driving manual), then you should just get a manual. I suppose it's also worth mentioning that reliability might sway your choice - if the specific car you're looking at has a shitty DCT but a great manual (Mk3 Ford Focus), then get the manual.
A couple of things. With the 8 speed setup the losses associated with all the extra gears running on bearings and pumping oil everywhere must be significant. Part of the reason for needing a dual clutch setup is suspect is because it cuts the inertia loads that syncro's have to cope with and of course closer ratios help with that too. it is a pity that engineers do not have a "cruise" gear that simply drives direct to the output shaft and disconnects the rest of the gear train that simply is there sucking fuel when you are cruising at highway speed in a stream of traffic. At least it would help compensate for the extra fuel owing to the weight.
Still prefer the real manual but now I have a much deeper understanding and respect for how the DCT operates. And I also now see why they’re supposedly expensive AF when they need repair!
Once the EV’s take over, I don’t think any automatic transmission from an ICE car will be that special. The manual transmission is going to make a comeback! I had a Hyundai Sonata eco that came with a DCT. It stopped working at 50K miles, luckily it was under warranty, I got rid of it right after it got fixed. I hope the DCT from the Veloster N is more reliable. I drove the Veloster N manual, it’s an amazing car. Definitely on my short list for my next car. Thanks for the white board, always informative.
Wise move. There's a strong possibility that today's electronically controlled cars won't bump start at all if the battery is dead. Can't say for sure, though.
What we need is a dual manual transmission, two sticks...one in the gear you are currently in and one for the gear your going to be in...press the clutch in and it immediately switches over. Oooo man that would be complicated to drive haha!
Your probably dont work on them. Replacement of the whole unit. I'm sure you could do small things with it but anything that actually breaks inside would probably chew up everything inside of that like a blender.
Having 8 clutch plates distributes the power on more surface and material. Maybe it will live for very long? Agreed that if something goes wrong mechanically, it looks like a nightmare to work on
Don't hold out on us, Jason. We all know that you have full lap videos (one in each Veloster) from the Nürburgring in your private collection. Share them with us already.
If you are racing, DCT is the way to go. Very, very few people race. I looked at DCT for my VW, but they require more maintenance, adding to the cost. Also more expensive to replace should it fail. There are times in traffic I wish I had the automatic, but that does not happen that often to make me regret my 6 speed. Remember, you drive a manual car, but just steer an automatic. I like to drive.
You obviously never drove a dual clutch there's no pushing buttons. Manual transmission getting phased out anyway because manual isn't efficient and it's costly having to replace clutch
The best transmission is the friends we made along the way
HELLO!!! I want to spend time with celebrities. Just kidding. GAGAGAGAGA! I only want to spend time with my two girlfriends and record TH-cam videos for with the 3 of us. OH YEAH. Don't hate me for living the best life, dear ronan
Sounds profound but really makes no sense
Friendship is magic
Sounds like the start of a bad porno..
@@TheJamesLykins that’s the point
Not gonna lie, Hyundai has done an excellent marketing job by sponsoring TH-cam channels. They've got me genuinely interested in their car
Yeah donut media and the straight pipes and now engineering explained. They are literally everywhere
Even though i wouldn't get one, I'm just happy Hyundai is hyping up hot hatches again.
Yes them and KIA are moving up. I have a 2013 Gencoupe with 125K and it runs great stock clutch no problem.The only thing I don't understand about the Veloster is its the same 2.0 engine as mine put they only do 260 on the torque where mine does 274 they should have raised it to the same level. Hope they put in the new 2.5 engine in it in the future.
@@cindysue5474 I have a 2011 Gencoupe with over 131k miles. Runs like a top still. I have a 2020 Veloster N w/PP. The N is a such a blast to drive. Sadly, this weekend it goes up on jacks for the winter thanks to the P Zero OEM tires. The Gencoupe with winter tires is fun to drive when is snows with the RWD.
@@cindysue5474 Hyundai and Kia have been killing it at least since I bought my Forte Koup back in 2011. Downside is that I can't get anything like the value I could then, when the value difference vs. say a Honda was just embarrasing. :(
Ah, I missed these sorts of videos; the ones where I can misunderstand concepts and parrot them back in conversation to look smart.
Science!
More like _Siens_
Welp, at least you have a goal. 👍
I thought the same thing. I can finally understand something.
"Hmm yeah, I definitely think the blue clutch is better than the red clutch, amirite guys?"
At least Hyundai knows what market it needs to advertise to
TH-camrs and Nurburgring
they are sponsoring every single car youtube (at least that I watch) and its making me wanna buy one and its not even available in my country and I don't even have money to buy any kind of cars lol
and no word about crashes of catalyc converters and scratches in cylinders
Maybe Mighty Car Mods can learn something.
NEVER receive money form car manufactures if you want review cars. 😒
Owning a DSG car, and several manual transmission cars, I love them both. The DSG is ultra fast, and blipping the paddles is oddly satisfying. Plus in traffic it's great. Obv rowing gears is it's own set of fun. Basically if you can't have fun driving either, you're not trying hard enough. Also DSG is faster soooooo ;)
As a die hard manual fan who's never owned an auto ever, DSG is the superior transmission, hands down, in almost every way except for cost, complexity and reliability, but that's simply a factor of physics. In every measurable, practical, real-world way, the DSG is the only good option. Period.
Yet, I'd pay more to own a manual. Thankfully though, I don't need to 😂.
Owning a DSG car, I agree. The paddles are great fun, and the transmission is especially effective with turbocharged engines where maintaining boost through gear changes is essential.
Manual always here.
Thanks for voicing your opinion @HumbleMechanic. 13:35 of excellent information from Jason, but no opinion? Get crazy @engineeringexplained and tell us how you really feel! :)
I love both of them but if I have to pick a winner I'd say DSG all the way. Both are fun but it's hard to argue with more performance.
Sooooo nothing! Ther's always something faster. But DSG is just another automatic, though a more direct feeling one.
Nothing replaces the feeling of taking off uphil or rolling in neutral while in traffic.
You do not need to go fast to enjoy a manual.
Those are some excellent drawings, Jason. How on Earth do you get them looking so clean?
Thanks! Really appreciate hearing this because they take a lot of planning, and doodling! Especially ensuring the gearing looks reasonably correct (like 1st vs 2nd sizes, etc).
I was noticing that too. I'm a fairly proficient technical artist and was thinking, no way that's his first attempt at drawing all that. Nicely done Jason, some of your best whiteboard for sure. Do you have a favorite whiteboard?
@@Druwoods I have a feeling that this man could do a 45 minute video on whiteboards and dry erase markers alone.
It's one of those things almost no one will pay attention to when they are done correctly, but most people will complain about when something is off :D
Came to the the comments just to say this, looks amazing man.
As a Hyundai tech, I really appreciate this video because you explain in far more detail what is going on in their DCT. We have our own training for them, but I feel like you make it much easier to understand. It's great to see Hyundai reach out to independent creators like yourself to showcase their new vehicles. I'm lucky enough to have driven a Veloster N myself, and it was an amazing ride. Awesome video!
I can't find info in my owner's manual. Does my 2022 Tuscon SE automatic have dual clutch? Non-hybrid, AWD.
@@craigmdietrich6916 It should have. Check in the glossary for mention of it. There should be a section on the proper operation of it.
Are 7speed dct bad?
@drickph3066 why would they be? 7 speed actually makes more sense from a packaging standpoint than 8. Reverse can be added to one of the shafts giving you 8 gears in total.
An 8-speed, dual clutch transmission is quite a feat of engineering.
How about a 6 sp. DCT ? Is it less of a feat?
I have the Veloster N with the DCT. Too early for me to say about reliability, but other than that, it's a great transmission! They nailed the programming on it.
@@jfieqjhow is the DCT holding up after this comment 5 months back
@@YonkoPapa Just over 20K miles on a 23 Kona N I daily drive in MN and I have had no issues what so ever with the DCT its fantastic to drive and I dont notice the slow speed or traffic hiccups that are referenced often with DCT's so as a Daily the DCT is fantastic and super responisve
@@gusbusb9 right on! That’s good to hear because the DCT is definitely going to to be my choice when I go to check out an Elantra N.
Yes, the stop and go kind of traffic is what I heard can destroy the DCT’s faster than usual, but that’s why everyone ive heard suggest the same thing which is constantly feeding gas vs letting the car lurch forward by itself.
Even if it’s just a smidgeon of gas, that’s what is preferred over allowing the vehicle to move just off the clutches.
As a senior DCT Calibration engineer, I approve this message!
Nissan CVT is the best transmission for failure.
It's reputation goes so far that I chose a single clutch AMT instead of Nissan's CVT as my Lada's transmission
I personally know two people who've had their Nissan CVT fail and bought new cars (not Nissan) instead of replacing the CVT.......On the other hand my Honda's CVT has never given me an ounce of trouble.
@Rü Bən wait till 70
@@reelreeler8778 I still have my dad's old(ish) car with a CVT and my own bike with a DCT, both Honda. Phenomenal reliability in either case.
@@reelreeler8778 pray
Every car company: This is our new dual clutch transmission.
Koenigsegg Jesko: 2 clutches? Those are rookie numbers
Koenigsegg Regera: imagine having a transmission to begin with
Tesla: o_0
@@Alexanderindahouse bro, even Tesla motors have gear conversion :)
@@Alexanderindahouse Tesla: here is our VFD
@@JFinns Coughs in Ludicrous plus (Stator Coil and Cell Life Damage) Mode
Covid is the fastest transmission though.
haha right
Lol
my car has a dual cough Covid-19 transmission
@@dieselgeezer18 with 19 clutches more than koenigsegg jesko
SAD, but true!
Hi Jason-as mentioned below, your skill at white-board has been turned up to 11 on this post. The clean drawings with digital overlays has really helped me to visualize what is going on here. Always look forward to what you will tackle next!
Kind of late to view this video. The information here is so accurate and wonderful advice.
TLDR:
1) if you want to commute in bumper to bumper traffic - DCT
2) If you have a damaged / broken /sore / lazy left leg - DCT
3) If you want the ultimate performance on a track and save every micro second - DCT
4) If you want a weekend fun machine - 6 sp man
5) If you daily commute is easy - 6 sp man (honestly - OR DCT)
6) If you want more driving engagement - 6 sp man
7) If you want a lighter car - 6 sp man
8) If you want to dictate when the gears shift up and down if chilling OR pressing on - 6 sp man
IMO there is no wrong choice. Both are excellent transmissions and would not judge either option.
Personally, I am old school manual and (for now) are not bothered by 1 to 3. Own a i30N (non-USA hatch) with 6 sp manual as well as a Kia Rio GT line with the DCT. Both awesome, with quite different uses in our family.
No idea on long term reliability as the DCTs are still quite new.
0.2 vs 0.5 sec isn't as big of a difference in shift time as I expected.
Personally I always prefer a manual, a car not offering a manual option is a deal beaker so it's great to see hyundai still supporting enthusiasts with their performance models!
If you think about it another way, it's 0.5 second loss of acceleration with manual versus basically 0.0s loss of acceleration on DCT due to clutch overlap.
Quite possibly the best video explaining transmission. This video should never be taken down. Been a fan for yrs but this is the first time I felt compelled to say thanks and I hope more people appreciate your work.
For numbers, dual clutch.
For feel and skills, Manual
Doesn't take much skill to drive stick
@@jimbis1313 For competitive driving it actually does, heal and toe, double clutching
@@jimbis1313 DRIVING stick doesn't require much skill. Now,MASTERING it... that's a whole different story.
@@jimbis1313: More than it takes to drive any automatic!
@@1300l: Double-clutching semitrucks makes sense. Double-clutching for racing or everyday consumer driving is nonsense and will just slow you down!
"They shift way faster than a human ever will"
IS THAT A CHALLENGE
It's actually fact Porsche dct shifts thousands of a second regular hundredths of a second fastest a race car driver did it quarter of a second
Does it shift even faster than that dude on Nissan Maxima 3.0 V6 running a drag race? (Google it, I tell ya)
Yes, even dual clutch transmission shifts much faster than humans ever will.
Manual is more fun, DCT is faster. End of story.
manual is faster manual is lighter
dct only faster for professional race driver for average to good driver manual faster and heel toe braking is easier
Unless you think going faster is more fun.
Unless you're in traffic most of the time.
@@andy42x Also, if you intend to "drive" that DCT "like an automatic (hydraulic)", you will be having FREQUENT down time due to excessive clutch wear! You HAVE to avoid "creeping" in stop and go traffic and using the transmission as a "hill holder"!!!
I would still go for a manual but I would love to try out the DCT
I'm just waiting for James from Donut Media to pop out and start yelling about the Veloster N the whole video.
Donuts Veloster ads almost singlehandedly made me buy a Veloster N, I really hope hyundai airs those as solo ads
As a European, who grew up with stick shift, and haven’t seen an automatic until I was a grown man, and only used paddle shift in racing car simulator games, I consider manual as the boring option, and automatic with paddle shift as the exciting one.
Hyundai definitely listened to the drivers, if the N DCT was around when I got my MK7 GTI DSG the decision would've been much harder to make. Big props to Hyundai!
Yes but they need to raise the HP and TQ a little bit in the Veloster up too 300HP and 275 280 on the TQ or just drop in the new 2.5 engine.
Clearly more clutches is better - triple clutch.
Would eliminate the problem of anticipating the next gear. You just preselect both!
A clutch for every speed. Now that would be fast.
@@karlkukk7080 Actually, that is what Koenigsegg has been doing with their Light Speed Transmission. The name alone says how fast that thing is.
@@peroplaninic2220 doesn't it have like 7 clutches?
@@mrwhips3623 Sounds like it would have clutches instead of sycros, I'll have to read more about this, sounds fascinating!
140 pounds more for the dct... That's like 1/2 a mother-in-law.
Or the pin weight of a sea doo trailer.
Ooof
😂
Lol
My mother-in-law's coffin weighs way more than that
That emphasis on “legally” for the fastest you’ve driven is priceless
Manual transmissions make cars timeless. You can get into an old manual car and still enjoy the hell out of it. Old automatics give me heartburn.
.. and your wallet an automatic, violent regurgitation ..
Exactly man! It makes any car at least a little fun
Damn i felt in love with Hyundai N division since I bought my 2017 I30N!
Thanks for this crystal clear explanation!
Keep the good work, I love your content!
This explanation is excellent - great diagram reminding me that one picture is worth 1000 words.
Just put down a deposit on a Black M/T Veloster N a few days ago. Couldn't be more excited!
Both the DCT and the manual seem awesome 👌
I wanted so long for his part of the Hyundai TH-cam Car Community cause he breaks things down for us logical and mechanical enthusiasts
Nice. Was fascinated by the whiteboard art. Yes, art. That one's a keeper
His artwork was toight, toight like a Tiger. Yes, yes.
Two other points worth noting is that the manual transmission, being far less complex, is less prone to failing. And the manual transmission will be considerably cheaper to replace.
What I heard
Manual= easy to change, clutch cost is low
Dual Clutch = difficult to repair, cost is much higher
Therefore .. the Dual Clutch is the best (for the Repair / Replacement Industry).
More like Replacement .. genuine 'Motor Mechanics / Repairmen' are, in this day and age, scarcer than Hen's Teeth.
Unless it’s manual with a dual mass flywheel. Price a BMW clutch and dual mass flywheel. The Dm flywheels start to vibrate and have to be replaced.
So still drive a manual daily if you want to save up money? Already on it with my 2015 Fit EX and it's a joy to drive!
Love that you speak rapidly but extremely concise and understandable. I got lost on the last tranmission, but found with your vids, if I watch them a second time I usually get it. Wish I would have know about you when my son was little, he needed a smart cool guy role model!
One disadvantage you forgot to mention for the dct is when you want to change to the gear that isn't engaged. I.e. the computer is expecting you to upshift as you coast up to a red light, then the light turns green, you put your foot down, and are actually wanting to go down a gear. It can take as long as a second on some dct to change that way, because the computer has to engage the lower gear before it can engage the other clutch. It isn't that big of a deal when driving on a track or driving hard, because that makes it easy for the computer to predict what gear you're going to need next.
The most annoying thing about my Kia Soul with the DCT is this. Coming to a almost stop, and going again feels like the car is slipping the clutch briefly and takes a second to catch. Other than that it's been lots of fun to drive, but it has a learning curve unlike a traditional auto. If you're just driving in D and floor it, there are times it will delay before taking off quick. I fix that problem by switching to manual mode and downshifting before I floor it lol.
I think the other issue is that it tends to encourage you to floor it, because you're not getting as immediate response as you're used to with the car when it happens, which can end up engaging traction control when it eventually does drop down a gear, making the delay even worse.
All that said it's still way less effort to drive in stop and go traffic than a manual, so worth the trade off for a daily driver I think.
I am currently taking apart 5 and 6 speed MTs at school, and this video is helping with so many connections.
That smile on his face when he says "legally " 😁
I thoroughly enjoy my modern manual turbo vehicle. One of the main reasons I’m holding onto to it due to the transmission as many car manufacturers are slowly stopping production of manuals.
Hyundai used to use a dry clutch setup for their DCT, similar to the notorious Ford PowerShift. The wet clutch is a big plus as far as longevity goes.
@Munshat Rahman
Not sure if it's the power shift variant, but the auto transmissions on their focus suck. Class action lawsuits and whatnot.
Though I doubt the dry clutch is the issues, but rather the overall design is flawed.
@Munshat Rahman Exactly, very unreliable, some challenge if there is a worse transmission in existence when it comes to reliability. Class Action lawsuits, recalls, etc etc.
Disadvantages of DSG (for my 2016 Mercedes CLA 4motion):
1) shifting is artificially delayed -- shifting execution is delayed -- one can put multiple shifts into the delay queue before the first one is started to be executed (VERY confusing)
2) Cannot shift from 1th to 2nd with RPMs lower than 2000 -- shift command is ignored. Requiring slow acceleration in the first gear when one attempts to stay in the sane RPM range
3) sometimes VERY rough shifting -- which would cause the car to get out of control when driving close to the limit (or on wet or icy roads)
4) kickdown switch also enabled in manual mode -- causing accidental downshifts into very low gear requiring an abort of the acceleration in order to stay in the sane RPM range
Advantages of manual mode of DSG compared to automatic mode:
1) enables faster acceleration while staying in the sane RPM range.
Outstanding presentation. I continue to be impressed by your ability to present complex topics clearly and quickly. Your drawings and overlaid animations in this presentation are excellent. Thanks for putting in so much time and effort on this.
I really liked Mr. Explained's graphical example of the difference between manual and dual clutch transmissions. After driving more than 48 years I see other advantages to manual transmissions that were not included. Manuals almost never break or need maintenance beyond a clutch replacement. Due to greater control, manuals get significantly better mpg than DCTs (as shown by fuelly.com).
But the greatest advantage of manual transmissions is what Mr. Explained described as "driver engagement." He was talking about driving on a track, which almost none of us do. What I take driver engagement to mean is manual transmissions force you pay enough attention to driving such that when an emergency situation arises you are able to respond quickly enough to keep on living. Whereas with an automatic transmission, which is what a DCT is, you are lulled so that when the emergency arises you die. That is why we are adding automatic braking to new vehicles - to try and reign in their automatic transmissions.
Have you done a video that compares all of the variable lift methods?
VTEC, toyota vtec, bmw valvetronic, subaru etc etc... ?
I remember a VTEC one and Maybe the BMW one but I don't think there was a comparison. I'd be psyched to see that. Very cool.
I have owned 4MT, 5MT, 6MT, 4AT, 5AT, 7AT, CVT and eCVT (hybrid). I prefer a good 6MT (manual transmission) given a choice, but when I had the opportunity to drive a DCT for about a week, I was impressed. The gear changes and the direct driveline engagement felt like a traditional manual transmission.
The only other non-manual transmission car that left me with a strong impression was Skyactiv 6-speed auto in a Mazda 3 rental car. Programmed to lock up the torque converter as much as possible, it also had the direct driveline engagement, much more than in a regular auto,
So what's the fastest he has gone illegally?
yes.
When his mistress sexted him
Didn't you see him getting pulled over the other video?
I’ve done 155 that on a bmw 320i in a normal road
124mhp 2001 sh!t box
I have owned both and prefer a manual by a wide margin. I drive quickly but am not a professional racer. I was taught (on a race track) that, prior to entering a corner, you should brake in a straight line, select the gear you want to be in through the corner, then enter the corner, and then accelerate through the corner. A DCT will often shift up or down in mid corner, upsetting the apple cart. You can put a DCT in a pseudo manual mode to mitigate this, but you still may need to downshift multiple gears prior to the corner, one by one. This takes time and is a distraction to a quick non pro driver trying to set up for a corner. In a manual you rev match, select your gear, and then simply concentrate on the corner knowing that there will not be another gear shift until you make it. The corner becomes the focus, not the gear.
In a DCT I spend way too much time concentrating on what gear I am in, often getting it wrong unless I glance at the dash, the last thing I want to do setting up for a corner. In a manual I know from the position of the shifter what gear it is in. No glancing at the DCT gear indicator or counting up and down shifts. No computer mucking it up if I don’t have time to choose manual mode on an unfamiliar corner. I am fully in control, for better or for worse. It’s much less stressful.
That said, for a beginning quick driver a DCT is the way to go. Most of the time a DCT selects the right gear and mid corner shifts are not upsetting to a beginner who is not near the edge of grip. For a driver a notch up, like me, the manual is the way to go. Set and forget, drive the corner. For a pro, the DCT is the way to go because a pro brakes deeper into the turn, may shift in the middle of the turn, can handle torque changes mid corner, and doesn’t need the calm of a steady, preselected gear. But I ain’t no pro. I’ll take a manual as long as they continue to make them. After that, I’ll go electric!
Just for reference you should also talk about sequential race transmissions.
Why? No one uses them in the real world. Every comparison has been real world comparisons.
@@FXIIBeaver so what. It would be a fun video. I only got to drive a sequential once. It would be really cool if they were made for street
Every motorcycle I’ve owned has had one.
@@FXIIBeaver Motorcycles have them. Some bikes even have "quick shifters" where you can shift without using the clutch at all. Push the shift lever and the ecu briefly cuts power to the engine and you slip into the next gear. You can also do the same thing manually of course but the computer is better at it.
Well done . I encourage all owners of the 8 speed auto/ manual transmission to use the manual option. It adds a new level of driving experience.
My 2015 Ford Focus (dct automatic) is fun on highways but inching through heavy traffic or inching up steep hills is a pain in the ass.
(it also has the same problem as the earlier Focus dct models: rough shifting between gears 1&2.)
You see, I have a Ford Focus with the dual clutch. Surprisingly it has no problems whatsoever and I absolutely love it. I’d prefer the dual clutch
owing a manual means no one ever asks to borrow my car
Good one I love that. Manual NO.1
Owned the N DCT for 590 miles. Almost done breaking it in. Can’t wait to try launch control.
I really hope to get an N with the DCT next year when my lease comes up. I currently have a GTI with a DCT (DSG) and its great, I've absolutely loved it but ready to move onto something new and the Veloster N with a DCT is my dream next car. I can't wait to test drive one and hear that exhaust note in person.
@@Wvlfmane personally, the exhaust note on the DCT is my only gripe. It is a lot of great burbles but zero pops. It only popped once, but it was loud as hell!😁. I’m getting an aftermarket exhaust ASAP.
Great explanation of manual vs. Dct. I wondered why they were being used in performance focused cars. Thanks for the video.
I grew up in the 50's, and attended high school in the 60's.
A manual trans was simply a macho man's car.
I had three GTO's all manual trans.
I love the sound of running through the gears, and that is simply not the same with an automatic, as we used to call them "slush boxes".
I had British sport's cars, two Corvettes, an Audi TT, and a bunch of BMW's.
The only problem I have with the automatics and new dual clutch trans is you cannot run through the gears with up shifts,with same beautiful sound of the freeflow exhaust.
I used work with Mercedes Benz Road Racing, and I certainly get the purpose of dual clutch transmissions, as the shift points are in micro seconds.
I also get the reason for that tech moving down into the street car market.
But for me nothing replaces the joy of a manual.
Most young people can't even operate a manual.
My own four sons were proudly taught on manuals.
And now I know more than I did 20 mins ago.
all my questions are answered for the rest of my life as a milllitary veteran thank you so much sir your my war hero love you sir!!!!
Tho I love driving a manual, I would also love to own a car with a nice (reliable) dct
Oxymoron: reliable DCT 😂
Well, relatively speaking. I've only been in a couple of DCT's so I don't have a lot of experience with them. A buddy of mine has a Boxster S with the PDK and it's pretty darned good. He "drives" it but he also maintains it and after 3 to 4 years now, it's going strong. Long term remains to be seen but he and his wife tend to keep cars like this a minimum of 10 years so I guess we'll find out eventually! ;-)
Yeah, just like Ford, Hyundai has had their share of "class action" DCT lawsuits. Specifically, the '16, '17 Veloster. But, these involved their "dry clutch" DCT. Let's hope that the "wet" ones work out better. Btw, the dry clutch has less power loss than the wet clutch, so the Veloster would be even faster with the dry clutch!
There are none
As a car guy, your videos kick ass in explaining how they work!
Very good drawings and concise explanation, loved it! Now could you delve deeper into how the clutches operate? Electro-magnetic clutches, electric slip rings, oil bath? How is that all put together?
Drive a regular Veloster since 2103 and love it. Gets excellent gas mileage and for the first few years I received a lot of positive comments about the styling, not so much any more as there are alot more on the road. It would be great if they made a AWD version of the N model.
DCT's can be a bit jerky at low speeds and sometimes get a bit confused about which gear to select for the next change
ARRRRRG 13 minutes and so much colour on the white board.... My brain is popping - Luv it!
"switching from one clutch to anther clutch"
thinks: "crab people, crab people.."
Thanks.. Now I picture the Futurama crab man wobbling from side to side saying "from this clutch to this clutch" while snapping hands.. :D
Thank you to the companies that give people the choice of manual or DCT. I thoroughly enjoy my DCT car and will never own another manual transmission car. I drive my car in manual mode most the time, but when I don't even want to think about shifting, I let the car do it.
Manual is way more engaging and fun for that reason, DCT is best for speed
@@NeoHCgbz something tells me the manual people won't be quite as thriving during rush hour on a steep hill
@@limabean6869 lol facts.
@@limabean6869 I don't really get this comment, I've always driven manual (I live in Spain, it's normal here) and traffic can be frustrating but I don't think it's that bad, you actually practice and get a better feeling of the clutch that way. Either way, you do you, I'll keep my manual, hope you have fun on your DCT
@@limabean6869 i would not want a dct for that scenario either, torgue converter or cvt would be far better for that
Manual on a hill sucks until you get used to driving it, after a year you won't even notice it.
All I heard “...bla bla bla..., clutch’s are fun....bla bla bla...complication equals potential problems....” (thanks for the video Jason - keep up the good work)
A new day where I say I'll try not to procrastinate today. Then EE releases "Manual vs Dual Clutch" video. You...
i have a 2020 sonata with the 1.6T (thanks to this channel) it also has a 7 speed DCT, love the package but slow city driving can be a little jolty from the transmission shifts, but that's what makes highway merging so fun. wish there was a sport mode and calm mode for the transmission
I will always choose driver engagement every single time through MT. It’s not always about sheer performance; it’s about the experience and interaction, getting to know your car.
You're being fooled. Your throttle is being controlled by computer. So are your brakes.MT's are throwbacks that are out of place on today's cars. They perform poorly by modern standards. I drove them for most of my life, but gave up when they lost the economy and performance advantage to DSG's and modern automatics.
@@johnstone7697 You obviously didn't read my comment. I said, it's not always about performance. Oh btw, MT are overwhelmingly common in Europe to this day, so don't tell me they're out of place on today's cars.
@@johnstone7697 in the name of efficiency you just become boring. Most manuals feel like afterthoughts because they are. Horrible ratios, built in rev hang, lifeless clutches. Sad really
Got my N in DCT just for convenience and comfort. Not regretting it one bit, smooth fast and fun car
I'd still choose the manual. Much more connection & involvement with the car, which means the manual is more of a driver's car.
My first car was a MT that I drove for nearly a decade before I couldn't afford to fix it. I was able to rev match pretty much every practical gear change, including large jumps from 2nd to 5th and vice versa. Yes, I dogged it some times. Then I had automatics because I just wanted a car and the wife needed to be able to drive it. Our last car was a Ford with a dual clutch. I recently got a latest model Subaru CVT and I must say I am pleasantly surprised with its initial impression. What I've missed most from driving a MT is that feeling of the engine transferring directly to the wheels. ATs have always felt "sloppy" to me and the DCT Ford... well.... It's not exactly as good at shifting as I was with a MT. One thing that I do really like about the CVT is the constant torque transfer to the wheels. Other than when you launch the car, once the torque converter locks up, it feels just like a manual transmission when accelerating, except whole the shifting thing. Side note, the CVT simulates shifts faster than the Ford DCT could actually shift. In a way the CVT feels "more" visceral than an MT in how it is always transferring torque to the wheels and seems to stay at the optimal RPM. But less visceral in the sense that I am losing a dimension of interaction. But all of this is moot because my next car will be electric. I don't think I'll actually miss shifting gears over all. One thing I have learned about no shifting is the amount of control you maintain. There is a large high speed curve over here that when your AT decides to shift, that brief loss of torque to the wheels can throw you off, not to mention the surge of sudden torque after the shift. But with a CVT, the torque is always there even if changing due to ratios changing, and keeping control of the car is much easier. Though some of that could be the Subaru's symmetric AWD not having torque steer. I will forever have nostalgia for driving my MT. It was a good car during my high school and college years.
Random thought- would a wet multi plate clutch be practical in a standard manual?
Except cost and weight, yes.
There are some multi disc (dry) clutch manuals out there, and being in oil would help with heat, and prolong life in times it needs to be slipped.
Tractors have used wet clutches for years. They have more clamping force, and last longer.
@@tangydiesel1886 Initial cost only, I guess? Cause if it helps to keep them alive for longer, the additional cost of maintenance could potentially be cancelled by the higher longevity.
Other than the previous 2 responses, another disadvantage is the complexity of the oil system. Dry clutch systems don't need to be airtight whereas the wet system needs to contain oil without leaking. My MT car has a little removable inspection plate for the clutch/flywheel which would not be possible with a wet system.
Edit: but an automanufacturer could totally do it if they wanted.
If motorcycles count, then Yes.
Motorcycles have using them for decades. Look up motorcycle powered cars and trikes. Haveing build a reverse trike powered by a FZR 600 engine, it can be a pain to get the vehicle moving. Wet clutchs like to be off or on and there isn't much inbetween. Expect to stall out repleatedly especially when using a foot operated clutch pedal...untill you get used to it.
Since a DCT does not have a torque converter and uses clutches how does it start you off in 1st gear without an instant power engagement, in a manual you let the clutch out slowly, does the duel clutch do something like that?
What is the difference in terms of how reliable these gearboxes are after 100,000 miles?
This. And also the repair, replacement and maintenance costs. I bet the DCT can't even be fixed - probably replacement only
100k on my DQ250 equipped audi. Stock clutches with around 400 bhp going thru them. 0 problems. hopefully hyundai's would be built just as well since mine is from 2009. DCT's are just as robust as standard manuals, given the fluid is changed regularly. Clutch packs are replaceable as units typically.
I don't see the point of another car companies trying to ''innovate'' and create new and different type of transmissions, when Toyota first introduced the planetary gear set on their hybrids, a system which has no belts nor chains, just gears that rotate and 2 electric motors, it just can't be more robust, reliable and efficient yet the parts only rotate. Others should stop making more complex and less efficient transmissions, Toyota made the best of all, just copy it.
5 year warranty with the car, probably upgrade at the 5 year mark so who cares?
Well explained, but one major Disadvantage of the DCT is that it is controlled by a computer and the program it is running. Many DCTs will prevent upshift & downshift that will not cause redline and will automatically upshift & downshift when in manual 'M' mode (i.e., PDK), hence there is really no true manual mode at all. A manual gearbox doesn't have that problem.
Wet dual-clutch is the future.
ice cars is the past...
Wet dual clut hes have been around for a while.
What if I told you that VW started shipping 8-speed Aisin autos for their cars instead of DSG?
Koenigsegg's LST is the future
@@procerator yeah DSG is infamous now with being expensive time bombs. maybe the newer ones are more reliable but i would be scared of driving an vw with dsg out of warranty. so alot of people. aisin ftw!
Remember there will ALWAYS be someone out there faster than you, so go ahead and get whatever makes you happy.
Yep. It can be really hard to track down manual examples of certain used cars, and it's a shame when a manual isn't offered at all.
*grabs popcorn and goes to the comment section*
Much love, your friends at Rev Media!!
I usually like your comments but unlike them because of the self-promotion
@@sjorsangevare cool👍🏼😂
@@sjorsangevare yea true
I have a 2014 Audi A7 S-Line with the DSG transmission and I LOVE it. The upshift farts and downshift revmatches never get old! On top of that it can either shift EXTREMELY smoothly or EXTREMELY fast depending on the mode and what ur doing.
I think the choice of DCT vs manual comes down to your driving preferences, and your proficiency with driving manual. If you're looking for speed and convenience, DCT really is the best option. If you're looking for engagement (and speed, again - proficiency with driving manual), then you should just get a manual. I suppose it's also worth mentioning that reliability might sway your choice - if the specific car you're looking at has a shitty DCT but a great manual (Mk3 Ford Focus), then get the manual.
Evo X was that way. Dct was glass.
A couple of things. With the 8 speed setup the losses associated with all the extra gears running on bearings and pumping oil everywhere must be significant. Part of the reason for needing a dual clutch setup is suspect is because it cuts the inertia loads that syncro's have to cope with and of course closer ratios help with that too. it is a pity that engineers do not have a "cruise" gear that simply drives direct to the output shaft and disconnects the rest of the gear train that simply is there sucking fuel when you are cruising at highway speed in a stream of traffic. At least it would help compensate for the extra fuel owing to the weight.
I want a true automatic for my daily and a manual for my wekend car, but I have 5 euros in my wallet
Same
Then a Hot Wheels would be the perfect fit for you 😉.
I relate fully
Dual clutches are fun for a daily but in low rpm around the town very clunky and just awkward anything in the mid upper rpm they shift nice though
i have manual for both daily and weekend hehe
Still prefer the real manual but now I have a much deeper understanding and respect for how the DCT operates. And I also now see why they’re supposedly expensive AF when they need repair!
Great stuff. Too bad I have a CVT in my Impreza lol. Love the car though.
CVT is great too ~ just missing some torque ~ but hey we technically having infinite gear
Once the EV’s take over, I don’t think any automatic transmission from an ICE car will be that special. The manual transmission is going to make a comeback! I had a Hyundai Sonata eco that came with a DCT. It stopped working at 50K miles, luckily it was under warranty, I got rid of it right after it got fixed. I hope the DCT from the Veloster N is more reliable. I drove the Veloster N manual, it’s an amazing car. Definitely on my short list for my next car. Thanks for the white board, always informative.
You need to bump start your car? I have an optional crank starter.
Wise move. There's a strong possibility that today's electronically controlled cars won't bump start at all if the battery is dead. Can't say for sure, though.
@@einfelder8262 They start just fine.
What we need is a dual manual transmission, two sticks...one in the gear you are currently in and one for the gear your going to be in...press the clutch in and it immediately switches over. Oooo man that would be complicated to drive haha!
Heaven help someone that needs their Hyundai N DCT transmission worked on or repaired. It looks expensive AND complicated. Eight clutch plates???
Your probably dont work on them. Replacement of the whole unit. I'm sure you could do small things with it but anything that actually breaks inside would probably chew up everything inside of that like a blender.
Having 8 clutch plates distributes the power on more surface and material. Maybe it will live for very long? Agreed that if something goes wrong mechanically, it looks like a nightmare to work on
Yes DCT's are better in performance. What wasn't mentioned was the cost if it fails. I may be wrong but I think a MT will be cheaper to repair.
Don't hold out on us, Jason. We all know that you have full lap videos (one in each Veloster) from the Nürburgring in your private collection. Share them with us already.
Shared two years ago! :) th-cam.com/video/W7ZfO5E-jiE/w-d-xo.html
If you are racing, DCT is the way to go. Very, very few people race. I looked at DCT for my VW, but they require more maintenance, adding to the cost. Also more expensive to replace should it fail. There are times in traffic I wish I had the automatic, but that does not happen that often to make me regret my 6 speed. Remember, you drive a manual car, but just steer an automatic. I like to drive.
I love a DCT or DSG as Volkswagen called it. I had one in my 2010 Volkswagen GTI. Such seamless and fast shifts. It made me a believer.
*DSG. A 2010 GTI would make it a 6-speed, which also uses a wet clutch system. The 7-speed DSG is a dry clutch system.
Jason nailed it as always. I could actual follow along thanks to his meticulous drawings. Well done good man.
How about a video on sequential transmissions and dogboxes?
you know, i had no idea the complexity of splitting the clutch like that.
that really is something. love my n dct
Rowing gears has a feel to it that pressing a button will never have. I will gladly give up 1sec of 0-100km/h time for a manual.
You obviously never drove a dual clutch there's no pushing buttons. Manual transmission getting phased out anyway because manual isn't efficient and it's costly having to replace clutch
@@jimbis1313 If you are in an "enthusiast" car, it likely has paddle shifters, which are literally glorified buttons.
I see two Veloster Ns and immediately I am excited