Post-modern Sonic: The End of the Modern Era?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- With a new movie out and the future unclear, it's time to ask a difficult question...is it time to end "modern" Sonic games? Either way, where does the series go from here?
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Huge thank you to tripplejaz for providing me the demo of Sonic Freedom. I might have mistakingly said the game was made by one person. I believe it's actually two? Either way, follow the progress here: / sonicfreedom_
Sub to their TH-cam here for updates and awesome art tutorials: / @tripplejaz
Check out Sonic Skyline's creator, Drawloverlala, here:
www.deviantart.com/drawloverlala
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I remember walking out of the Sonic movie and a kid said "I love Sonic now" and that made me smile
Oof he kind of roasted him
@@VirtuousAezon what
@@isaaccruz7080 that kid roasted sonic. It was something with care to the little details that made a kid like sonic. Even if some of that care shouldn't have been there. (I'm looking at you sonic doing the floss)
that's awesome actually
@@stanzacosmi oh. Aa
ww
"If it ain't broke, break it."
-Sega
ReloadPsi lmao
Sega for the ages
Link likes this.
🤣
@@swirlingabyss Nah, with the jump from Generations to Lost World and then Boom, then coming back to the formula everybody liked, only to discover they'd forgotten how to do it and had to turn it into the glorified visual novel that was Forces, I'd say "break it" was the right way to put it.
There is one (1) thing that I like about the Sonic Boom redesign. Tails has goggles. Idk man, Tails with goggles just feels correct. It just works.
Tails' boom design is the only one I actually like because it makes him seem like what he is, an engineer and skilled pilot. Although it did end up making him look too old imo. It made him seem like he was in his late teens instead of being an eight year old child. And, imo, that's something his modern design does wrong too. It makes him look ten, not eight. His classic design fits that much more. Give him the blue eyes and maybe you'll have a better Tails design.
And this became a rant about Tails' design. Sorry.
@@yellowmello1223 Agreed. To me, Boom Tails is just Tails but older and with better equipment.
@@yellowmello1223 Agreed entirely. Reminds me of when I draw Tails, I usually go for something more like his classic look, just with the blue eyes. I always preferred the longer muzzle on classic Tails but he does convey the character's age more accurately too.
Logan Pettit he’s 12
I love everything about Sonic Boom, just Can’t hate anything :(
"Something that every Sonic fan will think about"
Fans: "Bring back Chao Garden!!!"
Imagine the amount of love they could get if they made a well developed mobile Chao Garden game.
The product placement for Chao Garden was hopefully a hint we might get a new Olive Garden in an upcoming Sonic game.
Yeah Chao Garden > Pokemon
I actually miss my cutesy tomodachi simulator
Sega would be rich if they made a Chao garden app.
Honestly I'm surprised Sega didn't attempt to make Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie: The Game. I guess they realized even that's too silly.
Well... It could still happen... Life has taught me never to assume that the dumbest things won't happen.
I enjoyed watching the sonic movie. A video game based on to would be cool! (As long as it's a good game)
Antonio Soto
The movie just came out
That would be Horrible
Still possible.
A neat little story about the Sonic movie: My local cinema actually took one of their advertising screens offline and hooked it up to a PlayStation so the kids coming to see the movie could play Sonic 1 on it. It was raining outside after the movie finished, so there was a whole bunch of 6-year-olds trying to figure out how beat the first boss.
That is goddamn adorable.
@@MajoradeMayhem Ikr
That's a cool idea for the kids
Where they do that at damn
Best cinema ever
Not going to lie, I want see Skyline become a real thing. Never heard of it before, but I could see that art style and themed alternate world having alot to offer.
Me too!! I thought i was the only one I loved it
I think it’s really interesting and has a lot of really cool potential. But I’d like to see that kind of potential and care put into the main thing. Also, I don’t trust Sonic Team (or sega or whoever) with any of that for a second.
I think that style would fit into story driven rpg spinoff. It just screams i want to show you more of me and my world.
I never thought I would ever say this, but Skyline has done the impossible. That Amy is precious and adorable.
Ohhhh you mean the comic Sonic Skyline! I've read some bits of that comic before and it was AMAZING! I could see that turning into a full fledged game and- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- NOW I REALLY WANNA MAKE SKYLINE VERSIONS OF MY OCS-
"Sonic Unleashed is now receiving a lot of positive pushback"
....that would be an understatement lol
Im confused.....
Mainly for the story and presentation. But the former is a big Adventure 1 rework, but most don't notice that.
that game was my childhood and the first sonic game I ever played
@Genocide Shell Unleashed is good tho
I mean the game has the best story in all the games
When you started talking about alternative designs for the Sonic cast I immediately thought about Sonic Riders and that awesome opening animation
FACTS FACFS
Apparently the same people who did the animation for Attack on Titan also animated the Sonic Riders opening thing. Which is pretty awesome and explains why it is so.
But riders is apart of the official canon tho. It'll be weird to make that it's own sub-franchise. Unless you mean side adventures.
Man we really need a new sonic riders game. The car racing games are okay, but riders really needs to make a comeback.
@@burningspies1084 especially since its Segas own fault the series died
"could've done better on tails" omg don't get me started....tails used to be something great now he's a coward glued to Sonic's hip
They wanted things the way it used to be, sega thought sonic 2 instead of adventure
@@braincell6210 true....still terrible though
Such a disrespect to the character development to the Fox after Adventure and Adventure 2...
“Oh we don’t talk about those games people think they’re bad”
WHAT PEOPLE?!? ASSHOLE GAME GRUMPS AND MAINSTREAM REVIEWERS FORCING THEIR GAMEPLAY TO BE BAD TO PAD OUT THEIR FOOTAGE?!?
Comic Tails is way better. GA isn't joking when he says read the comics, I found them all online and blazed through them and I cannot wait for issue 26, it's such a gripping story.
Alex Smith I feel like characters like Cream and cheese got shafted too. When I was a kid I always remember thinking cream was quite cool even though she was shy. And in Sonic X she brought out a different side of sonic I hadn’t seen before when she wanted flowers cause she missed her mother so Sonic, wanting to make her feel better, went off to get some for her. Plus Amy got someone to be normal with 😂
I did some research, and apparently lots of the devs who worked on Unleashed went on to work on Breath Of The Wild. Nintendo knew what they were doing, for sure.
Source?
It's not really that bcuz a large chunk of sonic team from unleashed are still present (around 75%) stayed while the rest of the team are just freelancers that had to sign a contract, which is why unleashed, colors, gens, lost world and forces all had different level designers
It's a common thing in the gaming industry so yea
@@obeyabe8613 pretty sure the majority of the devs of sonic unleashed left for Nintendo
I know this is not how it actually went but cmon I just like thinking that Nintendo "stole" some Employess from their rival Company, Sega
@@theant2266 uhh, yea. They totally stole talent. That’s how development goes. Crucial devs like artists, designers and skilled programmers often get offers from multiple companies, even when they’re employed. A lot of devs only stick around for one or two games, with only directors and a few key staff staying. Nintendo saw their skill and sniped them. That’s how it goes.
I want a return to the shonen spirit that the character was born with, and that ultimately died with '06. All throughout that game I could see a love and a pride and a nostalgia for everything they had built in SA1 and 2. The MOST disappointing thing about 06 is that Sonic Team felt the need to be ashamed of all of that. It was the last time Sonic had a fiction, lore, characterization, and emotional stakes.
Sonic CD evangelized me to this series, but the Adventure games remain perhaps my favorite entries because they felt like the truest expressions of the character, like he'd finally found the voice and the verve that was always burning just beneath the surface.
I resent everything that's come in the wake of 06, because it's all felt like apologia. They trot Sonic out as if he's a premier Disney/Pixar cartoon character; he's completely lost his spirit and his edge and his sense of adventure. It's like they're embarrassed of where he came from.
More than anything, I want a return to the spirit of the Adventure games. I want to see that scrappy goofball save the world with his friends--in style and with that mischievous grin. I want to inhabit that world and care about it, its history, and the people who live in it.
Sonic was at his best when he was pulp anime and I just want Sonic Team to remember that and stop running away from it all because people who've decided they don't even like Sonic anyway have this bizarre expectation that he ought to be more Micky Mouse and less Dragon Ball.
Black Knight was the last time that happened actually. After that Sonic just became bad jokes said by some guy who sounds too old & uncool to be Sonic in English. I know how you feel & hate that the critics wanted Sonic to be Micky Mouse instead the cool Shonen Protagonist he was meant to be. The Sonic Boom intro & ending of CD were epic, the Adventure games are what the series should strive to be in 3D in every way. They controlled great (even if SA2 mapped everything that wasn't A Jump to B by mistake) we actually got to play as characters other than Just Sonic in fully 3D environments & had excellent stories.
Still 06 aftermath was what allowed those people who don't even like Sonic to take control of & ruin the series. Yuji Naka was gone, & Iizuka wasn't half the leader he was. Sonic 06 had a far better story than anything we've seen in the Sonic Series since the awful 2010s decade started not counting the comics. The only problem with the comics are Sega's absurd mandates these days. Sega of Japan doesn't even fund the series properly because the refusal to appeal to Japanese audiences instead of giving us the crap we've been getting for an entire decade from Sonic Team.
@@WaterKirby1994 I'm really fascinated to hear about this friction between Sega of Japan and the IDW comics. The only mandate I was really aware of was to cram Shadow into a stock rival 'Vegeta' archetype (which completely misses the point of the character.) Can you elaborate more on this refusal to appeal to Japanese audiences?
@@_HPX_ The real problem is Ken Penders & all the crap he pulled, & the mandates were issued to prevent any similar cases from ever arising. Of course these mandates went way too far in some cases like not letting Sonic lose, or show any character depth. Really it's Sega of America that has had friction with the comics rather than Sega of Japan.
Sega of Japan wants the Shonen tone the series had throughout the 2000s decade back. Cream is actually well liked in Japan, & she hasn't appeared in an actual game since Generations. You should also think of how few of the games actually feature Japanese Culture in them. Japanese Vocal themes are quite rare in the series, despite Japan originally creating it.
@@WaterKirby1994 It always seemed like Naka-san fought tooth and nail to give Sonic a hard shonen edge despite the series performing better outside Japan. Once he was gone, it must have made sense to SEGA--especially after the reception to 06, to pivot the tone to something Westerners would find more palatable, i.e. a goofy cartoon.
They hired Americans to write the games after Unleashed, eventually leading to Boom--brazenly just handing the franchise off to Americans to completely reinvent it, as if wanting to wash their hands of the franchise entirely.
So I'm really surprised to hear that they want to go back to a shonen tone. Are there sources you can point me towards to confirm this? It would give me some small comfort to know there are people at SEGA on our side.
@@_HPX_ Sega of Japan always wanted the Shonen tone for Sonic, they just haven't had much of a role in the Sonic series since 10 years ago. The past 10 years have just been Sega of America screwing over the series like you said. Hard Core fans of the series for decades were pissed when Colors wasn't a 1 time thing like all the other crazy stuff the series experimented with.
Yuji Naka was the perfect bridge between Sega of Japan & Sega of America when it came to Sonic. He knew that anime was becoming popular in The States & knew that the Japanese Sonic was supposed to be the true Sonic. Sonic was supposed to be cool & Sega of America completely forgot that by making him into a silly cartoon animal 10 years ago.
I can't provide you with sources because I don't remember them. I just know that Sega of Japan wants the return to form for the series. Supposedly the 2010s direction of Sonic is why Sega of Japan stopped funding the series. Yuji Naka leaving to form his own studio was far worse for the Sonic series than Sonic 06 ever was.
Oooh boy! Hi! I'm Drawloverlala! thank you very much for the compliments from the Skyline AU hehe
i know it's just an AU, and some of the concepts can get a bit confusing, i've been thinking on updating them to be less confusing
but i really appreciate that you mentioned it!
thank you very much!! ^_^
PAMELA YOUR ART IS DROP DEAD GORGEOUS!!!!
Would you be willing to chat a bit more at some point for a video dedicated to this universe and, more selfishly, your art style? I cannot get over how good your stuff is. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.
@@GameApologist Aww thanks! i'm very flattered for your interest! 😊
and sure! just contact me wherever you need it and i'll see on what i can help you with ^_^
uh dunno on what social media you prefer to talk on, but just let me know! 😄
please keep going
@@pamelaojeda22 Seriously, the art is so amazing! I need to read this. It sounds amazing and it looks amazing. You really capture the action and energy of Sonic, add in that new element of the new world, but keep it distinctly Sonic. Just from a design point, I love it already!
Tus diseños son muy buenos ;)
I can see it now: "Sonic the Hedgehog: Into The Sonic-verse"
Sonic ends up meeting Scourge The Hedgehog.......
Cleo Malone true
@@editor7354 Yeah, lol.....
Please no. I'd pay for that not to happen.
@Slik Worm
Hey, you and me both.
Not to your extent but for the benefit of sonic.
5:43 small mistake, boost didn't come out in Sonic Colors and Sonic Unleashed, but in Sonic Rush which is criminally underrated, and along with its sequel Rush Adventure, one of the best 2D titles the franchise has.
Exactly
I feel good someone else remembers this game
These fans creativity makes me wish they were part of a separate corporation in Sega because by golly damn. The fan projects are just jaw dropping that it can be possible and still make it unique. Control handling is like, *"THANK YOU, I finally feel in control"* type of thing where sonic isn't very limited in one single direction..
Also agree with the friends abilities, that's what makes them fun and want to play as them do get to places Sonic couldn't.
When I think of Sonic today, I end up thinking about classic sonic, modern sonic, adventure sonic, movie sonic, comic sonic, etc.
When I think about Sonic, I want to think about Sonic. No variations, no different eras, no spinoffs...I just want the blue blur we all know and love to come back. The free-spirited, caring, and tough guy who always saves the day, and has a few laughs while doing it. The one who knows he can’t do it alone, and has all of his friends beside him. The one who knows when to take things serious when things *get* serious.
That’s the Sonic I wanna see again.
That's adventure Sonic tho...
Have you seen Hesse's combination Sonic?
What about Lego Sonic...
@@sonic5993 Exactly. The definitive Sonic.
Dang you said everything that was on my mind 👍
Sonic Movie really reinvented Sonic in a great way, Sonic hasn't been this big since the 90's. I'm happy the movie version is able to move past the 90's, and be a likable character
Same.....
Yh true
Uh-huh....
Yeah, you need to change your perspective
@@parkrowrow7414 Rn it's about 18/1,
Also, I *NEED* (?) to change my perspective?
The intro depicts classic lore so deep that even fans think it's something completely new. They went straight back to Sonic's roots, albeit with a western fantasy art style like that of The Dark Crystal.
We need a reboot
Like not to the level of sonic boom but I think we need new writers, designers, voice actors, and developers. I swear sonic team has ruined Sonics gameplay so much that it’s sad. And the AWFUL writing destroys any sense of atmosphere trying to be formed. The level design and gameplay doesn’t need to be explained, it feels clunky and unfinished. I do feel something like an adventure remake or returning to that style of gameplay would be a good step. Cause it seems that it worked. I don’t mean make adventure again. I mean try and make sonic, sonic.
By the way I’m sure the current voice actors are extremely talented. But the current games have tainted the voices for me.
I agree
How about a game series based around the comic series?
I dont think reboot would fix fundamental problem with sonic. They try to pander to large fanbase that expect different things from their sonic. And here lies the problem. Look at modern sonic. It brought classic sonic on board and also you can see tons of 2d sections in 3d gameplay. Also tons of gimmics that just does not work with how sonic fundamentally plays. For me, the biggest letdown was Sonic lost worlds. They gave you such flexible movement options that would be absolutely awsome for open maps that would be more suited for exploration. And give it quite linear maps. Link DLC was the thing it would really fit. Also for terrible story, i think writers had much better one in mind, but when you come more or less finished product and you have to even go as far as to try to sync with japaneese lipsync, its hard to give them too much shit for it. And even if they could make that animations from scatch, they are still limited by what game they have to fuse it with.
@@AMYTART I did not know that. But his voice was always just alright for me especially growing up with Jason Griffith as sonic. I want him back and if not I’m really happy that Ben is playing sonic in the movies and hopefully the games in the future as well
@@AMYTART dang
This video made me feel really happy, especially about being a sonic fan since i first laid eyes on him.
I exist in a weird time of sonic, and i love each rendition of him, and i can tell you have a similar fondness and forgiving of some of the more terrible outings
Thank you for this video, it means a lot to me
6:03 Actually, the boost formula has been around for 6 games because it was introduced back in the Sonic Rush games which are heavily underrated. That's like saying the drift mechanic was introduced in colors when it was really introduced back in Unleashed.
Man the Sonic Rush games were the BOMB! Sonic Colors DS too.
@@axian8102 I LOVED colors ds dude. Rush was dope as hell, too. Never got to play rush adventure tho-
@@djroscurro9859 Rush adventure has some gimmicky sailing stuff between levels, but the charm in the little island with delicious jams all around you should definitely try it when you get the chance.
....... Am I the only one who detests Sonic Rush Adventure and wanted to set it on fire?
@@MajoradeMayhem Well there were def some parts that drove me up the wall. What made you detest it?
"Ball is in your court, Sonic Team."
*smash cut to JonTron's vision of Sonic Team snorting ALL the coke*
"All the coke in the world is gone, mr. president."
"Sonic team........."
JonTron: What do people like more than Sonic?
His pal: TITS!!! >:D
JonTron: Wanna hire this man?!? Wanna hire this man?!? ‘Cuz he a FUCKIN’ GENIUS! TITS!!!
“WHAT THE PHUCK IS A SONIC”
WHOA HEY ITS SONIC TEAM WE MAKE GAMES UHHH I THINK
This shouldnt have likes next to it. Keep kid stuff for kids please
i’d love to see Tyson Hesse’s combination of Classic, Modern, and Boom Sonic expanded upon. i think it looks great and SEGA should give it more attention. and personally, SA2 Sonic is my favorite. i love the proportions and colors a lot
Personally I feel a bit differently: you got the 2D gameplay down with the Mania series. Let Christian Whitehead do what he does and don't worry about it. That's done.
As for 3D sonic, get that boost out. It's boring. I want a slightly open world, and A USABLE ENVIRONMENT. You want speed? Use the environment. No boosts.
Utopia is an amazing example of using the environment to gain speed in 3D.
Oh, and no more 2D sections in the 3D games please. Get rid of classic sonic as well. That's what the 2D games are for.
Idk i love the boost on sonic unleashed. I hate the colours and forces boost and generations isn't too bad but i think they should make a momentum game but also incorporate the boost formula in it
To make Sonic work in 3D, they would have to look at Warframe. If you want something faster than Sonic in 3D, look no further, for we have Warframe. Which funny enough we have a Warframe that turns into a ball and rolls over enemies which we also have another Warframe that speeds up other characters and himself if we combine them, you get Sonic, we can color him entirely blue.
Anyway, the issue with 3D Sonic is there is a goal you have to race towards because it's 2D gameplay. This was something similar to Mario, if Mario had the same gameplay from 2D to 3D then, it would have the same issue.
I'd love to see Utopia style gameplay applied to a collectathon style game, one big open hub world (in this case preferably Green Hill) that branches off to several other open areas for the other zones where you collect rings, emblems, and finally Chaos Emeralds. The challenges can be mostly traversal based, you need to figure out how fast you need to go to reach an area, and how you're going to find the space you need to build enough momentum to achieve that speed. The biggest thing Utopia proved is that just casually exploring an open environment as Sonic can be incredibly fun.
You are saying exactly what im trying to say. Sega is cheaping out on level design with the boost or die crap. Imagine on green hill zone, if sonic moved foward until you missed a jump or hit an enemy wrong and died. No exploring the level or finding secrets. Just memorize the level and do it over and over, hoping you don't get shafted by slowdown or glitches. I hated sonic games after 1999.
the problem of the boost is his presence forces the level design to be linear : Because something fast is inevitably hardly handy and that's the problem of swiftness with video games and intrinsically with Sonic
So it's difficult to make entertaining modern levels because of it
A lot of the issue is that there's not enough efficient investment in Sonic. Ideally you could have a pillar strategy of allowing for continued entries in the classic line, Adventure inspired titles, and continued Boost games at the same time. Given the cost of HD development and the sense that Sega's keeping the budget fairly modest for Sonic titles, that doesn't seem as if its likely. However, given that one of the reasons Forces was so messy because they attempted to please every kind of Sonic fan (and thus pleasing none of them) via combining a bunch of different elements, clearly that isn't working either.
K
SEGA are simply incompetent idiots both as developers and management. We can complain about how they changed things all the time but the main thing to come back is SEGAs incompetence. Yeah they made risks, which is good except they didnt execute those risks in a way that made it worth it. They CLEARLY dont know what they're doing! And that's the problem.
@@stormcutter59 yeah, that's pretty much it, even in the 90s they managed to get the megadrive right through luck, timing and the US division having more wiggle room. Then they proceeds to shoot themselves in the foot several times over. Like take out Sonic even, they sit on a pile of classic IPs and they left them rotting away instead of curating them like other companies do.
@@stormcutter59
thanks to SEGA sonic 06 was left with a skeleton crew with most of the original team working on secret rings, and thanks to SEGA sonic boom, big red button's original idea of an open world co-op rpg sonic, had to be thrown in the trash cuz they diddint like it, then while still trying to salvage a game after haveing their work yeeted, SEGA was like "k now put it on a wii u".
cryengine does not like the wii u.
so after getting help from crytek the devs managed put out something that could pass the hello world test at least.
oh yeah and both games were in serious danger of getting a time over thanks to the release dates SEGA wanted.
That is definitely a part of the problem. I think if anything, sega should stick to only one sonic.
"Are those stupid little tacos actually tasty?"
Yes. Yes they are.
Chris Is Terrible 🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
Chris Is Terrible 🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
Chris is Yellow
Chris Is Terrible 🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
@@rodrigomorales563 Chris is Green
"Get rid of the Wisps"
yep, you lost me
I know that's a contentious statement, and I apologize. Meant no offense! Personally I feel they are overused and not very well implemented, but I know not everyone feels the same way.
Ultimately it's not up to me, I am just a guy sharing my opinion.
@@GameApologist this was like a half joke post I wasnt expecting an actual response lol
In all seriousness I think the Wisps are a fun addition to the universe, I just think they could be better used as opposed to being just arbitrary powerups; the Wispons are a good start
@@Triple-Q I get it lost world is where the wisps was important
@@Kinomiyasan no it was really colors. I hate how the wisps are used nowadays they have no reason to be in the story besides sega just having them in there. But in colors they had a purpose and I feel like others games with the wisps are just riding off of them
th-cam.com/video/y7dVXKvCdcU/w-d-xo.html
When someone asks what kind of style sonic needs. my answer is always I just want good and consistent gameplay and level design and that's what sonic needs.
Sonic team seems to say otherwise and that they need to reinvent the wheel what seems like every 20 minutes and I'm sick of it.
Love your profile pic fellow nepper!
I actually adored the only chili dog I've had in my life... Gotta learn how to do them, nobody sells them around here...
Awesome video, thanks for all the shoutouts.
@@swirlingabyss Thanks for the tip, kind person!
I believe in the one first Archie-Sonic comics there's actually a recipe for homemade chili dogs. Honestly they're not too bad.
I mean, you can get one from Sonic
Probably had the most chili-dogs from Dairy Queen as a kid, ironically. Definitely because of Sonic, too.
Joshua Starr Can you send me that please?
I just hope Sonic games can be genuine again, without resorting to self-deprecating cringe comedy
Yeah, I hate it because it’s as if they’re trying to use meme culture to be more in. I hate it. You can be goofy but still rely on the strength of the content. Like Sonic Unleashed.
I just want some good fucking writing.
Or a more mature Sonic game aimed at us original fans. Make it open world, more refined graphics, and for God's sake make Sonic actually RUN FAST like he suppose to! When did he ever "build" up speed in the shows? I want to be able to run anywhere on the earth within seconds. I want the feeling of moving faster than sound in an instant.
I really want to see a sonic rpg game. Not like Chronicles
jason marshall you make a compelling argument
"If you know you're going the wrong way then go back to the start and make a new path"
-no one at SEGA
18:16 they turned shadow into vegeta, and silver into trunks lol
They already kind of were Vegeta and Trunks xD
@@talkingcontroller9396 Yeah, but that person's designs just makes it obvious now! XD
SEGA: MMMMM LET'S MAKE A NEW CHARACTER FOR THIS NEW GAME THE NEW CHARACTER SHALL BE FROM THE FUTURE LIKE TRUNKS IN DBZ AND THE SAME SHIT OF STORY BUT PUT IN SOMETHING DIFFERENT INSTEAD OF THE ANDROIDS
2006 SEGA:
BOOM SONIC06
Shadow doesn't accidentally create worse threats due to his arrogance enough to be Vegeta, and SIlver... isn't decisive enough to be Trunks. But I get what you're... 'saiyan.' #SorryNotSorry
Especially since it started out early one with turning Sonic into a Super Saiyan...
@Abrilla 2 M I hope you're just saying that as a joke xd
You know what would make me happy?
A new Sonic Riders game.
That’ll grab my attention a lot more than Cars.
I would love a remake or "sequel" of sorts for Sonic R. It may be a bit dated, but still one of my favorite Sonic games.
@@dcbandit The more I imagine what a sequel or remake of Sonic R would be the more it turns into the 2P races in SA2.
Maybe they could shake it up by doing hovercars but keeping the Transformed physics and gameplay and having more dynamic stages again
Bro a remastered shadow would be awesome
Zero Gravity remastered would be great
For me, I'd like to see Sega focus on making Sonic's brand cohesive. No modern or classic Sonic. Just Sonic. Take the time to analyze Sonic and dedicate a team that has fresh blood and experience with a big budget behind it. One the likes of which hasn't been seen since Unleashed.
For gameplay, I'd like them to try to blend what works with boost with Adventure's more controllable gameplay. For example, controls like Adventure with some use of momentum. Through playing well (maybe building up the speed naturally through momentum), players could earn the ability to use the boost for a sense of power and speed. Especially useful for repeated runs.
For brand, just have one Sonic. It shows confidence and makes the brand easy to understand. They could modify his design slightly to take some elements from classic and modern. Similar to how Tyson Hesse usually draws Sonic or Sonic Heroes. They can continue along with the games, IDW comics, and flirt with online animations until they feel they have a good Sonic cartoon opportunity in the future. I love how self-aware the brand can be and poke fun at itself, but I think the brand needs to take itself a bit more seriously as well. I'm sure a good balance could be struck with careful planning.
You know what they say:no more classic,no more modern. Just Sonic.
Totally agree, it has been a trend to overall video game franchises that have had a rocky life (e.g. Crash Bandicoot and Spyro) so hopefully sonic will get the same treatment.
@@foodham3277 I hope so. Sonic is fantastic when done right. He just needs the love behind his games and brand by Sega that he deserves
I mean It was like this until generations
Classic Sonic was Just referenced to the old design but was Just a younger Sonic
@@Mepphy99 Exactly.
I feel that boost (in forces) actually dumbs down the level design. it feels like an excuse to not put effort. my idea is about letting momentum being not only the main focus, but also what puts everything together.
I think its kind of weird and amazing that the Sonic fanbase is as big as it is despite the tumbles the games have taken. The hedgehog really means a lot to people and shows how well he resonates as a character
*sees Sonic Skyline*
Ah...ahhhh~! WHAT
IS
THAT?!?
It’s so beautiful!!!
And people lambast Deviantart. Hmph
It's just a stereotype. There are actually talented artists on Deviantart.com
Litten Fire I KNOW!! I post on there too and I’m tired of that stereotype! Yes we got the cringe and fetishes but what website really doesn’t?? But we got talent and beautiful images skipped over just because “LOL DA IZ SO BAD :D”
People lambaste Deviantart because there's a lot of fetish art on the front page usually. Also, Sonic's bad notoriety can be traced back with Deviantart and the fetish art along with the recolors. Keep in mind that despite Sonic Skyline looking unique, the person draws the art and is not indicative of a new gameplay style for a Sonic game.
Doc Louis I know it’s not gameplay it’s just the concept alone! And I already mentioned the site got its share of fetish artists but guess what? SO DOES THE REST OF THE INTERNET!
Where!?
"What do I, as a Sonic fan want to see from this series?"
Sonic Adventure 3
A game that isn't afraid to be a bit dark but not so edgy that it forgets the characters themselves
Something well written and fun to play also a Chao Garden all of the best Sonic Games had a Chao Garden
Having said that
If you are going to torcher Sonic for what 3 Months? 8 Months?
Let the man act like he just went through some heavy stuff
Even if it's just implied through his body language
THINGS NEED TO MATTER XD
There's already an Adventure 3. As much as you may deny it, 06 is Adventure 3 and that is a fact.
What do I, as a Sonic fan want to see from this series ?
a good game .
@@chalkfourtyfive That's not true, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
12:13 - Funny enough, these mobile Sonic games actually work in their simplicity when compared to something to Lost World or Forces, which tried to do too much.
Sonic adventure 2 was such a great story, I almost cried at the end.
What other sonic game scares you and makes you cry like it's a movie
I feel like Sonic fans have been telling Sonic Team (more specifically Sega Japan) "Get your shit together!" for almost fifteen years straight, and they still can't help but go and do something weird, haphazard or weird AND haphazard.
A lot of the problem with Sonic (at least, the games Sonic Team works on) is they don't seem to learn anything.
They throw a bunch of random crap together.
Some elements work, some don't.
What do they do next game?
What would a sane developer do? Take a critical look at their previous entry (especially if it was regarded as flawed), try and see what elements they did right, and what really just didn't work.
Then refine the same concept, taking into account what you learnt from the previous title.
What does Sonic Team do?
'Well, last game flopped. Toss out everything and let's start over'
Or even
'last game did really well! Oh well. Toss out everything anyway, and let's start over'
They just DO NOT LEARN.
Always throwing new stuff at the wall, but never bothering to check if any of it sticks...
@Chihusky 419 "THEY JUST DO NOT LEARN"
Yeah; let's pretend that Sonic Colors and Generations don't exist (I'm talking about from a gameplay perspective).
@@justinstewart3131 It's not 2010-2012 anymore. It's 2020. Those games are no longer relevant.
@Homeless Don't you remember what happened after Generations? Lost World, so obviously we can't predict what the next Sonic game is going to be.
@Homeless Do you think they will learn when they've proven themselves incapable with the last couple of Sonic games?
I just wish Sega let us see more of the massive cast they introduced. One of the reasons why sonic adventure 1 & 2 and Sonic heroes are one of my faves (even if the controls aged like cracked eggs in a heatwave) is the fact its not only sonic or tails.
We got to know different personalities of different up until that point background characters, we had rouge's whole spy stuff and her relationship with shadow omega and knuckles, we had team chaotix being a rag tag team of freelance detectives who would constantly bicker amongst themselves hell even Big the cat was a fresh, albeit jarring, spin on the formula.
Sorry this turned into a rant i just really want to see these characters used more often
Alpha DD
Nowadays not even the spinoffs use them all.
Well, after sonic 06 there was a big push-back about how sonic games kept forcing you to play as Sonic's friends. It wasn't so bad in SA1, because you picked a character's story and then played that character all the way through , but starting in SA2, you'd be rolling around at the speed of sound with the sonic levels, and then run straight into a brick wall to scour an area for master emerald shards as Knuckles. 06 was the worst with this, literally having you change to different characters with drastically different playstyles mid-level.
Manek Iridius I’ve always really enjoyed how Sonic controls in the Adventure games, it just feels right.
ToO mAnY pLaYsTyLeS!
The only people complaining about Sonic's friends were the critics who wanted to ruin the series & got what they wanted for the past 10 years. Classic Fans were begging for abandoned Classic Characters to get brought back in response to the return of Team Chaotix in Sonic Heroes. Sonic's cast of characters was excellent prior to the 3D Boost Games with the worst characters in the series being introduced in the 2010s decade ironically like Orbot, Cubot, & the Zeti.
The Adventure games control like a dream compared to later games in the series & I would rather treasure hunt as Knuckles in SA2 Battle than Boost as Sonic with the crap stories we've gotten in the 2010s decade. We need a return to form for 3D Sonic already. The Critics hijacked it & turned it into the joke of the gaming industry with Sonic Colors & kept getting what they wanted, while actual fans like us have been feeling constantly betrayed by the series. We keep getting wisps, yet we aren't allowed to raise chao or play as Tails, Knuckles, Amy, or Cream in 3D anymore? The answer was bringing back more characters not taking them away!
Sega doesn’t get they’re ACT together I’m going to pull a sonic CD and hop over to the fan based stuff. Looks like fun, looks like sonic, looks like free entertainment.
This video gave me so much relive. I’m one of the fans that grew up on Sonic during the dark ages, and I always loved seeing him go on these adventure. They made it feel like story’s with memorable locations, stuff that you would see in a movie. And when I looked back his older adventures from the 90’s, though it was a little confusing at first, I eventually figured it out and got just as much enjoyment from them. Especially the OVA, mmmm it’s so fun, and everyone feels like they belong in there, even if we don’t see them in games. I’m just happy that someone has finally made a video addressing this issue with the proper respect and understanding of the situation...
Sonic Project: Hero is also an amazing engine. It removes the boost formula and replaces it with the spin/super spin dash as well as the drop and dashes. It feels fast and natural with great control
Agreed
20:18 Nah, he's supposed to be cartoony to a degree. It's shown well in the Unleashed opening, and even in Smash Bros. I wish they chose to animate him in that cartoony/stretchy style more often actually.
I love how Kirby games reached the point where it’s hard to say when you go from main game to spin-off. I want more series to be like that.
There’s no heart in Sega sonic games, they try making a “dramatic” sonic game but there was tons of material that existed for that in the form of the sat am show and the Archie comics that would have made for a perfect fast paced RPG and action game, but instead we got that sudo soft reboot unfinished sonic forced cut short on development to save money and make the Christmas or summer deadline I forget which, same with sonic boom, Sega’s goal hasn’t been to capture lightning in a bottle or to create quality, it was to make a profit on minimal effort while also creating an illusion that the hire ups care because they embraced meme culture. But that was just them trying to exploit a base to seem relatable so they could make more money as opposed to looking to actually doubling down on making sonic a fully realized character. Instead, they try and prey that nobody realizes that they actually want him to be a face and mascot for the company, never changing, always reliably bankable like Mario, but then they gave him a voice, gave people the rights to the likeness and story to Archie comics who turned it into a Guinness world record holder for longest syndicated comic ever written. But since they didn’t care and wanted to make money, they also lent out the rights for sonic underground to happen... yeah, he’s a mascot that accidentally got to be a character and ever since, segas been trying desperately to treat him like a mascot again and hopes everyone else will go along with it. Ignoring the rich story filled days of the passed.
THIS. Sega of America commissioned a character from Sega of Japan, they got Sonic, and then they twisted him to their own ends. Always have. Always will. They will not allow a return to the true way of Sonic as an option; it's their way or no way. Nor will they ever relinquish Sonic; they want only him as their face. The only reason that they allow fan games is to have an out from actually making stuff for the hardcore fans themselves. Speaking of fan games, Sonic Mania, the official fan game, is held to the same rules as everything else official, which means that fans hired by Sega have to play by Sega's rules. Also, Aaron Webber is not our friend. He memes at a mile a minute even in interviews and very often in self-disparaging ways, and NEVER ONCE FLINCHES as he does so. And he originally came on to Sega at about the same time as Unleashed was released, right before the games turned into a literal circus. And he has high praise for early '90s SoA CEO Tom Kalinske, who started the perversion of Sonic. He's a complete phony. And now that he's been promoted, he's in the prime position to backstab his fans. And Sega of Japan cares too little to do anything about any of this. Which is morbidly fitting as they themselves helped cause the problem with their hiring of Kalinske as a replacement of Michael Katz while Sonic 1 was in development. Sonic The Hedgehog was a doomed franchise from the beginning.
first of all, noone is gonna read this secondly im sure everything you just said is objectively wrong and youre just a selfish biased thing
Toot toot, Sonic warriors! I love how you kept that going!
*Sonic Forces Game Apologist to visit Olive Garden Zone Act 1.*
I could tell editing this episode really made you hungry.
I heard that around the time the OK-KO crossover was announced, a rumor started going around about a Sonic cartoon coming to Cartoon Network.
Man, I wish...
well there's a new sonic cartoon coming in 2022
Sonic Heroes was amazing. Having all the characters together and Metal Sonic as the villain was awesome. They also nailed scale in that game, really made you understand how big the environments were
I just want a modern sonic game like the day stages in Sonic Unleashed, but with even more impressive level design, it will come out on PS4 and probably PS5 too ! Use that power.
@Umbuko DaJuko Why not too. But if the modern style deserve better than Sonic Forces.
Why not just release it on all consoles?
@@astracrits4633 It will, I was just saying what consoles came to my mind when I wrote.
Umbuko DaJuko Because Mario is a first-party title developed in-house by Nintendo. First-party titles are almost always console-exclusives, and exist primarily to sell consoles. Back when Sega was also in the console business, they also kept Sonic games exclusive to their consoles until around the time the Dreamcast started dying. However, Sega is no longer a console manufacturer, so naturally if they wanted more sales they wouldn’t make their flagship game an exclusive unless they were given a very beneficial deal by the console manufacturer in question (e.g. the deal between Sega and Nintendo that resulted in the Sonic Storybook games, as well as Colors and Lost World.)
Umbuko DaJuko They don’t have an incentive to make it exclusive. In fact, there’s a a significant incentive *not* to make it exclusive to the PS4 because the crossplay features of other consoles incentivize buying those consoles more, even if it’s not specifically for a presumably single-player Sonic game.
Also, Sonic 06 was NOT a PS2/PS3 exclusive. It was also released on the Xbox 360.
10:47 - The second reboot was a legal requirement. Not the fault of the staff behind the comic.
Legal or not, that doesn't change that it was pretty messy. They didn't have to keep pushing it as an extension of the same serious while also reminding everyone it's not the same storyline. It probably would have been better if they simply been better if they restarted the comics properly the first time with a new issue 1, because that's how it ended up happening anyways.
Shame too, because there are a lot of great ideas in the 100 issues of both the mainline comics and the Sonic Universe comics that likely aren't going to be used again in the IDW comic.
Wait, Legal? Why’s that? What happened?
@@xavierparis2789
Ken Penders happened. Look it up.
DaveMan1000 Oooooh boy. Sounds like I’m going to be grimacing at my computer again.
Here’s a good article about the reboot: nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/the-lawsuit-that-reshaped-sonic-the-hedgehog-comics.html
19:33 That looks so much like NiGHTS into dreams...
"Don't demonetize me, Paramount."
Guess they did it anyway...
The interesting thing with Sonic is how its early days were more child-like, then it appropriately shifted to "teen Sonic" with the Adventure games. Should we see an older, wiser Sonic now? One who pays his taxes and puts the beans on it?
DeadwingDork boomer sonic?
DeadwingDork
So, Boom Sonic? No, thanks.
[TSA]canal mais variado/ most random channel Yeah I think it would be interesting to see what Sonic would be like in his 20s, like when he reaches Shadow’s age
@@rainpooper7088 BOOMer Sonic. I'll get out, I know the door.
Sonic for Hire, the Game.
Dude i screamed so loud when you brought up sonic skyline. I love that AU SOO much and I've hoped it get some attention! It is so unqiue and eyecatching. I hope you go further into it because its soooo gooodd.
100% agree with everything, and genuinely miss more adventure-styled stuff that was executed well. But I have one important thing to add:
Where's my Chao Garden? I mean, really, the mobile game opportunity there is insane, and I'd love to have it back in an actual game as well.
I gotta say that Sonic Skyline looks fucking awesome
In this movie we have Sonic react to our world.
The sequel could show more of Sonic's world by having Tom react to Sonic's World.
Maybe tails tells him to go back
There's a movie out there just like this.... Can't remember the name though.
That would be interesting.
@@frostbitegaming3289 roger rabbit
The 'Modern' period in the classical sense was factually over more than five years ago. It then became pretty much memes and self deprecation for the sake of internet points until now. This may very well be the renaissance people have been waiting for to thrive in.
Sulphurous I got so tired of the "Look how bad we are!" Kind of outlook people had about Sonic, even the Sonic twitter account has gone overboard with it imo. People like Sonic because it's genuinely awesome, not because of memes or because it's fun to laugh at. I feel like that truth has been lost a bit the last few years, but thankfully Mania and this movie are finally making people more aware again.
delta_reg I’m glad Mania did so well but I’m in the boat where we need to have a strong 3D entry again. Maybe even a Adventure style game. 06 was putatively horrible but there were things that game did right besides the soundtrack. Kingdom Valley Sonic version. Minus the Silver part, that was one of the best representations of what made a Sonic level a Sonic level, platforming, parkour, and high speed. Sega needs to evaluate themselves very carefully now. The movie was a tremendous breath of fresh air and they need to be careful. Make Sonic cool again, as you said. We loved him because he was so goddamn cool, and 3D is a fantastic way to stretch your legs and make him cool.
@@A.R.T.4 Yeah I agree we need something Adventure style again, or something that's closer to Sonic 3's design philosophy of platforming, speed, and exploration but all in 3D. I just don't know if Sonic Team is up to that challenge, I hope so.
Also in the next game they should bring back the Chao Garden and even better if they could tie it into a mobile app as well.
Yeah, if anything, by the actual definition, sonic became postmodern quite a while ago with the Twitter and boom's humor.
@@regulator062 Yes! I always thought chao garden could tie well into mobile. Imagine if that app got just *half* the success of Pokemon Go, I would be so happy!
In terms of cartoons, I'd love to see more animation in the style of the new promotional OVAs that came out for Team Sonic Racing, although I also like the old school OVA and the Mania style too.
I love how "can you feel the sunshine" is playing in the background whilst Eggman is cackling away and his bot that looks like the bad ending of chaotix is rising up behind him
....you know, classic sonic lasted, what, 7-8 years? Modern sonic has been going on for over 20.
Maybe it is time to accept that Modern sonic is actually "Just" Sonic.
"Classic Sonic" and "Modern Sonic" used to be one and the same. That's how it should be.
"Classic Sonic" is an invention made up by Iizuka ten years ago. The whole story of the Adventure games is tied to the S3&K mural and Metal Sonic is directly referenced from CD. And even though the lanky Uekawa artwork can look weird, the redesign is actually good and needed.
@@mkge7206 I wouldn't blame Iizuka, he just listened to fans after backlash of Sonic 4. Greeeen eyeeeessss... Then Generations made the split even stronger.
@@Gnidel I can't argue. But that's so dumb... Classic implies elitism and conservatism, and that's against the whole spirit of the franchise. "Classic Sonic" is 1985 Mario. Sonic is not about looking behind.
Celeste~ ♥ one is older and the other is younger so what exactly are you taking about? Same character different eras
Fun drinking game:
Take a shot everytime he says 'Sonic'.
......like Sammy.
Hic.. OK... Hic... I'll... Hic... Take that... Hic... Challenge... Hic... Bet ya... Hic... I won't get... Hic... Drunk... Hic
You're trying to kill me. Aren't you.
Warning: You may get alcohol poisoning
Youuuuuu sonuva
I am so glad you talked about sonic skyline it’s such a good AU and I straight up made my own arc of the story based off of your “let’s save infinite” sequel
this was a really good video and i find it intersting that youtube thing you talk about Sonic Forces while you talking about the whole franchise
Sonic The Hedgehog. The first drawing I drew... Over and over and over again. And fell in love with Sonic SatAM. Thank you for another splendid video that I enjoy having a nice cup of tea watching.
Fancy seeing you here.
Glad it’s finally out nick. Can’t wait for more of the non sonic stuff next!
PLEASE. I like sonic as much as the next guy but this is just... Too much.
ginger bob
You hate sonic? Why are you here man?
Jonah Abenhaim who said I hated sonic ? I’m a huge sonic fan, but I’ve seen nick’s other sonic stuff and I’m a fan of that too. I can like other stuff to be covered by a TH-camr who seems to share common interests as myself
Agreed. This has been fun, but we gotta move on.
@@jonahabenhaim1223 yea weird. Dude likes sonic a lot and his most popular videos are sonic content. Ofc he's gonna talk a lot about sonic right around the cusp of the most relevant the franchise has been in 20 years. That's both emotionally and financially the right move.
Binge watched all the Sonic vids, now i gotta go back and binge everything. I love this channel,can't wait for more content. (subscribed)
Quality video right here, my man. All things considered, I'm ready and excited for the future.
y’all think they knew that when they coined 3D sonic “modern sonic” that there would have to be a “post-modern sonic”?
I guarantee that when modern Sonic was dreamed up, the team wasn't even looking into the year 2000.
What'dya think is gonna come after post-modern Sonic?
Ok
Sonic XL.
vitalApocalypse [VA]
I always called the 2010 Pontaff era the „post-Modern era“ because it clearly didn’t have the same spirit as the games from the post-Dreamcast Modern era like Heroes, Unleashed or Black Knight. Just because the character designs didn’t change doesn’t mean it’s not a different era.
My timeline is Classic > Dreamcast > Modern > Post-Modern > Boom > I don’t know what to call the current one yet
damn I was ready for bed, thank you tho
Those Skyline designs look stellar. Especially Rouge with glasses, ZAMN.
Calling it now: Sonic and Mega Man: Worlds Collide
I'd love a game of that. But I've been thinking lately, would Mega Man's style of platforming merge well with Sonic's? I ask this because these two don't have the same pacing. Sonic is a game about breezing through as fast as possible while Mega Man is slower and maybe more strategic. If a platformer with the two wouldn't work, I think an RPG might be the best choice.
If Sega really thinks that the Sonic continuity doesn’t make sense and it’s a big problem, they can use the World Collide idea to make reboot to make a timeline that makes sense.
The turtle is a Yellow Belly Slider or a Red Eared Slider. Both are native to Montana
Dang you were so nice man! Appreciate your kind words.
Really great video over all! We can think of Classic Sonic like the OG Dragonball and Modern like Dragonball Z! They're an extension of each other and one doesn't really exist without the other. I personally would like to see a bridge between Sonic Mania and Sonic Adventure in terms of story.
Agreed. I feel like that is never gonna happen but we can dream.
Also once again, bang up job. You inspire me to do more as an artist and creator in general. That demo was just stunning.
Yo!!! The Sonic Skyline art captured me the moment I saw it.
Great video man!! Iloved it!! Keep up the great work!!
Honestly this was the cry for change I've always wanted and I'm glad it's gaining traction
I just want games like we got before Colours. Most Sonic games before 2010 actually had big budgets and big stories. Colours onwards though, the games got too short and simple.
Phantom Drags I’d also say the characters lost their personalities too. Characters like cream have been thrown aside and only appear in phone games or the comic now. I come from the era where the main cast was Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream and cheese and was kinda sad to see that dynamic pretty much die.
@@ROT695 Yup. I agree 100%. Say what you will about the 4Kids, but at least the characters personalities are pretty much the same as their Dreamcast/Gamecube counterparts.
And we got hilarious fandubs of those stories too.
Phantom Drags Exactly. Plus I feel like Amy being in the group kind of makes more sense when cream is around. Her interactions with her was always more normal than we’d seen before. Even the episode where cream went to find flowers brought a nice side of sonic out cause he actually went to find the perfect flowers for her in the mountains. I miss character development like that
@@ROT695 The games still felt like a continuity in terms of character development. The Japanese script for Sonic Colours is actually a lot better in Japan. It was translated and rewritten.
I love the nostalgia but I love the feeling of boosting trough the levels. This is why I love sonic generations. And don't worry, you can have your tacos.
Okay. I went into this video expecting the usual "Sonic's been downhill since his jump to 3d" stuff and the "how I'd make modern Sonic better" junk you hear in other videos. But after staying through, watching, listening, enjoying the subplot of you being hungry while editing the video, and seeing your ideas, I was pleasantly surprised to say your ideas are pretty damn good! Involving more of the fans would be a great idea, Christian Whitehead and Tyson Hesse are perfect examples of how fans can do amazing work on Sonic and when you brought up drawloverlala's art and AU it made me so happy! They're one of my favorite Sonic artists and I'd absolutely love a game based on their AU. That said, subscribed, notifs are on I look forward to your next bit of content!
The whole "modern" and "classic" concept was one of Sonic Teams biggest mistakes they've ever made. It not only created a heavy divide among the fanbase, but created a big problem on how to continue with the series. It was inevitable that Sonic had to shift from 2D to 3D, as videogame hardware progressed, and in my opinion... while not perfect, Sonic Adventure felt like a natural progression. The 3D model of Sonic in the Adventure game still resembled the model we saw in Sonic 3 & Knuckles and fans enjoyed it. With it's ups and downs, most of the community still see Sonic Adventure as the definitive 3D Sonic experience. After the Adventure era, Sega started to heavily alter Sonics appearance, taking him further and further away from his original design. Final nail in the coffin was Sonic Generations, which introduced 2 Sonics interacting with each others and sharing the gameplay throughout the game. This caused a heavy divide and solidified the mindset, that the so called "classic" Sonic is an entirely different character, which ofcourse he is not. Both character designs (modern and classic) are the same character, just younger and older. The problem is that the so called "modern" design looks too different. Unlike Nintendo, Sega went too far with altering the design. This is why I have to give props to Nintendo. They have never altered Super Marios character design too much. We don't see Nintendo fanbase discussing about classic or modern Mario, because there is only one Mario. His transition from 2D to 3D was succesfull, just like Sonics, but Nintendo realised where to draw the line. They were wise enough NOT to change Marios appearance too much.
Specifically speaking on your classic vs modern thing. The issue is there was always a divide even before generations and that divide wasnt made by sega but the fans. The divide was 2-d vs 3-d and weather or not sonic was only good back in the 2-d days or not some ppl like 3-d gameplay more others dotn but that wasnt an Sega thing that was a fandom thing sega only solidified it with generations in trying to a appeal to the classic/ 2-d fans whining that they weren't getting loved and that they missed the old days weather that a worthy complaint is neither here nor there . But the divide was there from the get go.
Barring the design aspect of it, the reason there was a fanbase divide was the aspect of translating appeal in their games. Mario, Zelda, and Final Fantasy when transitioning to 3D, took what worked with the 2D games and translated in a 3D environment. Sonic Team almost had it with Adventure's speed stages but added a bunch of terrible side gameplay modes. It came to a head with the mediocrity that is Sonic Forces, and the fact that 3 months before, Sonic Mania came out which most considered the best Sonic game.
M J what a stupid complaint. Sonic design already changed before generations and generations only confirmed that they are different. Plus people were complaining way before generations actually.
Also there is no need to even alter mario designs. Mario games don’t really have a time line to follow in the first place so they don’t get older or younger
*"because there is only one Mario."*
*Mario & Luigi Paper Jam:* Allow me to introduce myself
The Adventure games were the definitive 3D Sonic experience & Dimps was still making 2D Sonic games during that time with the Sonic Advance Trilogy. A huge part of the split fanbase was the insane & drastic changes made to the series in the aftermath of Sonic 06 like the changes for the 2010s decade in story & characterization. As well as that the Just Sonic mentality was a mistake that only ever was acceptable in the Storybook games & 3D Boost just isn't a sustainable playstyle in the grand scheme of things.
The phenomenon I've described as "Postmodern Sonic" is something that closely matches postmodern theory in the real world. The mark of modernism is Nietzsche's "death of God", or genuine being, at the hands of the intellect, and the intellect was to be the tool to build new values and usher in a technological utopia. But when modernism failed, postmodernism stepped in to understand why through deconstructive analysis. It would attempt to see all the parts, figure out what went wrong, and reconstruct a better ideal.
The problem is that deconstruction is a failure to see the full picture; another step on the path of metacognition which removes one from genuine being. In Sonic's case this happened around the point of Colors, choosing the direction based on constituent parts rather than a cohesive whole. They hired a "cool guy" voice actor, a skilled writing team who know nothing about Sonic's deep lore, and they built gameplay around speed without understanding what made speed fun to begin with.
Wider culture is moving into the metamodern era, which attempts to balance the constructive and deconstructive. It's a noble effort, but it will ultimately fail because it's still using the same metacognitive mindset, which is driven by the ego. The reason nostalgia exists in the first place is because it's a recognition of loss; the ego has robbed us of genuine experience. It takes a true psychonaut to understand how to return to form - to genuine being. Sonic is the perfect analogy for this, too. He's a woodland critter who travels the psychedelic special zone in search of perfect form (the emeralds) to fight the ego-driven intellect of Eggman. These are deep archetypes, and as students of Jung the OG Sonic Team understood them well.
"Modern Sonic" is just another way to say "this is the sonic we currently have". So I doubt it's going to end.
I like this video its good. Also good clips and pics that adhere to your commentary. Very well done.
I'd love for sega to bring back the Archie characters either in comics or just as a brief cameo in a game, plus they have the best excuse to reintroduce them due to the fact that you have a resistance type format in Forces
Alright. This video made me sub immediately. You're truly a sonic fan I can tolerate watching. And your presentation is better than JebTube's video: "Farewell Sonic Forever?". Like you actually know what the sonic franchise needs and how it should progress in the future. Well done! Take my 👍
To be fair, JebTube’s video was meant to throw all his frustrations into one giant video. He doesn’t care about the franchise anymore because of what it’s become. He could’ve gone in-depth into what is wrong with Modern Sonic, but I doubt he wanted to do that for a franchise he doesn’t love anymore.
Bro, every time you mentioned redesigning Sonic I kept thinking of Sonic Skyline.
And there he is!
I would absolutely LOVE an official Sonic Skyline thing. It would be perfect.
This video makes me hopeful for the future of sonic. Thank you for that.
Without watching the video I will just say this: within the coming years I think SEGA will finally start or at least try to make Sonic as one of the ways he should be as in acknowledging different parts of his history, properly implementing them sometimes without using nostalgia as a crutch, and treating the stories and games with care.
@Manek Iridius Okay but I never brought that up. And as for the that ps show about "schoolkids playing PSO2 instead of, I don't know, a fucking Phantasy Star story" that is the older one from 2015 if I'm correct. The new one isn't the best but it is better and it's called, "Phantasy Star Online 2 Episode Oracle."
Anyways could it be luck? Well Sonic does have casino levels and SEGA is joined with Sammy so yeah it's not a stretch to say it's a gamble with the company. But I have to disagree with it being luck for the majority of the time because with a lot of their series I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. Like they're doing some stuff with Initial D, Sakura Wars, I've heard about a new Panzer Dragoon, and on and on.
SEGA's not the best but I have to give credit where it's due.
16:30
*We are going to ignore Knuckles Stages in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2*
Every video I watch shows me more and more why I liked this series in the first place. I gotta say thank you for reminding me why this blue blur is so important to me. He’s been there my whole life. Sonic The Hedgehog was my first platformer. And I loved it. Still do. Even if the series has been quite rocky the past few years.
TH-cam suggested your channel so I decided to check this out, since I'm a Sonic Fan. I see you also make videos talking and promoting the positives in video games, same here but I do things differently of course. You've gotten me curious, gonna stick around for a bit. Peace.
I kind of disagree with this video. From the way you're saying things, Modern and Classic Sonic are different. Sonic was always meant to be just "Sonic" nor Classic or Modern. People say the Adventure games branch off but they didn't at all. Sonic Adventure is a natural progression from 2D to 3D. It takes the lore, story that all genesis games had(yes Sonic 1,2 did have a lot of lore in Japanese manuals.) and put more detail on it.
If anything, Sonic Adventure is a continuation of S3&K in my eyes because both games are really connected. Sonic Adventure also has the momentum-based gameplay the classics, full control, and multiple playable characters.
Sonic truly lost his identity at Sonic Colors. No, not Shadow, Heroes, 06 or Adventure games. Sonic Colors was a problem, bringing in blocky 2D gameplay that hardly felt like the Genesis Sonic games, limited 3D gameplay and a complete redesign over Sonic's personality, tone, and narrative structure.
Same, Sonic Adventure felt like a direct sequel to Sonic 3, not to mention all the references "Did you let eggman trick you again, Knuckles??"
I agree with everything you said. I freaking love sonic adventure even more tan adventure 2 because it felt like the classic games brought into 3d! I miss lore so much with sonic games. I actually wished they did more lore on the chaos emeralds and show off sonic using each one individually like how he could use two chaos emeralds in sonic x.
Sounds good
SkyTech RTS
Plus Sonic Adventure actually picked up on a lot of the lore the Japanese Sonic 3 manual mentioned. It’s a direct sequel story-wise.
Agreed Completely we desperately need to see a return to form for 3D Sonic & an end to the tone & characterization of the 2010s games at long last. Sonic was never meant to be this lame cartoon animal that can't take things seriously & insists on telling bad jokes. Sonic was always supposed to be an awesome Shonen series & like you said Adventure was the natural progression from 3K even if there was an in series time skip between those 2 games of 3 1/2 years according to Tails & Amy's character age information. Sonic Colors was a complete betrayal of everything the Sonic series stood for & the IGNorant Critics praised it because they wanted the series to suffer.
The Just Sonic mentality that the Critics wanted was a huge mistake that was only ever acceptable in the Storybook games. The 3D Boost Formula was a step in the wrong direction because it abandoned multiple playable characters & only served to divide the fanbase in the long run. I want Sonic to feel like a Japanese series again with fully 3D games where I can play as several characters. The Boost Formula & 2010s series changes are why Sega of Japan doesn't give the series the funding it deserves & why we have these 4 year waits between mainseries games.
"If I can say toot toot at the end of videos, I can say lala without giggling like an idiot"
Amazing episode. I'm definatly checking out that Sonic skyline thing because it looks cool. I definitely could get used to that as an evolution to Sonic's design if they had to change it.
Thank you for introducing me to Sonic Skyline. Its love at first sight for me lmao.
Mobius? You mean Morbius?. Been rewatching your videos while doing homework , great stuff as usual 💙
He meant Mobius.