The Rugged Armor of House Stark
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- House stark is many things. Practical and strong being two of them. Both of these are reflected in the armor they equip themselves with.
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One thing that ticks me off about medieval era type movies/shows is that many of the characters don't seem to wear the most basic piece of armor which is the helmet. Not every fighter back then had shields or could afford plate armor but almost every fighter in their right mind wore a helmet for protection.
Producers paid for the actors faces, so we just have to imagine, that they wear their helmets
@@panteleimonponomarenko2504 yeah, that's literally what I do too lol
It's really just to get the personality across to the audience. Even If you have a talented actor their is only so much you can convey with no facial expression
This pretty much
@@loremonkey I understand but you'd think they'd at least wear a helmet in the midst of battle where enemies are literally trying to crush your skull with an axe or club 😅
In the books Ned Stark buys _"silvered mail"_ for his Household Guards, and Ned himself wore grey silk.
You can be sure they did not look as scrappy as on the show
I hate how cinema always makes fantasy colors boring af. Medieval people L O V E D color. They threw it on everything. Those statues we admire? They weren't exposed marble, they're just so old all or the vast majority wore off through time. Sometimes they were made that way too. The Romans prized realism, so these statues were painted to match the subject.
@@Jeff-mv2vmThe color thing is true although those statues are from the classical period
@@Jeff-mv2vm The lack of colour on statues is thanks to the Protestant reformation, at least in England and parts of Europe.
But yes I agree with you, medieval people loved to show off colour, not only was it practical to indicate you were an important individual, it perhaps showed who you fought, with knights and men at arms being hired by a baron or duke usually, and the lesser nobility paid homage to the king who oversaw everyone
Yea I'm the show the Starks and the north looked poor as barely able to get by...but I remember from the books the Starks were quite rich, I mean they were in charge of the whole North. Winterfell was massive, Wintertow was also a proper town...the show made everything small and crappy.
@@pinecactus9672 You've no idea how disappointed I was when I first got to see the book/comic renditions of armour compared to the show.
Killed my interest in the show further, since I just did _not_ like the armour there to begin with.
Stark’s and the rest of the northern houses feel like they are the most down to earth nobles, who mostly know about practicality and simplicity than most of the southern houses.
Edit: how did the comment I made when I saw tired enough to be considered drunk get this many likes
With the Boltons being an exception ofcourse. They hunt their smallfolk for fun.
@@rameenaayan3248 ah right… I guess the manderly’s kinda, as they are a southern house and enjoy the more traditional southern style, with a northern twist
@@josephehlers2007 Yeah but the Manderlys are also good and relatively more down to earth rulers despite their vast wealth and after living in the North for so long they consider themselves Northerners.
Apocalyptic winters will humble you like that
Starks gotta have their counterpart
I've always assumed that was a leather covered coat of plates and not a gambeson.
It may be, but i feel like that would leave a ton of tiny gaps to take advantage of
You're actually right it's a type of armour called a brigandine which was made of smaller overlapping plates riveted to a leather base. It was better than mail and more flexible than full plate.
Looks like I need to research the armor a bit more@@ethanmoody-humphrey9524
@@ethanmoody-humphrey9524so like scales or lamellar
Yes it's absolutely brigadine armor.
That's not a gambeson they are wearing in the show, it's called a coat of plates. It's essentially a leather apron with steel plates sewn into it.
They are also wearing gambesons too, it's the padded shirt seen beneath said coat, but the leather armor you are describing is not what a gambeson is. A gambeson is a shirt of padded cloth meant to soften impact and make wearing metal armor more comfortable
Coat of plates - > brigandine
That ain't no " leather gambeson" which makes no sense as gamebson is padded cloth armor.
That's a coat of plates, as seen by the rivets and obvious plate outlines beneath the leather.
I think the technical term for it is a brigandine but that frustrated me as well
The brigandine is an evolution out of the coat of plates which is here depicted in a very fantasy way with too large gabs between the plates. Even historically coat of plates often, not always overlapped but the examples that did not, didn't have gabs the size of grand canyon
@@aroko921they could be linked by smaller plates and had large, raised areas cause it is cool. That's my thoughts.
Yeah, this video is shit
The one depicted looks like a shoddily made brigandine
Roose's armor goes hard little steaming faces red silk on the helmet and little blood drop on his cloak.
The Boltons will be getting theor own video in time!
@loremonkey Nice I hope at some you go over King Daemon Blackfyre's armor.
@@aegorbittersteel2154You mean the bastard Pretender?
@gerardjagroo No, I wasn't talking about Daeron son Aemon at all.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 Nice head canon you got there mate. But you should try to separate reality from your little delusions
Even House Tarly from Hornhill has no nonsense armor.
I'll have to do a video on them as well!
Randyll Tarly being a martial man explains the simple plate design. Function over fashion
Don't forget the North somehow forgot about the leather and warm clothe used to insulate their armour until Sansa reminded them when preparing for battle.
Mom telling you to put your selweater on beforce going out into yhe arcitc tundra
It's not a Gambeson, it's a coat of plates. They wear it overtop of their maille if they have it.
The north is without doubt my favourite of the seven kingdoms, I’ve always had a lot of love for the hardier peoples in history and fantasy, the north is often few in population due to the hardness and size of their lands, and aren’t as wealthy as others, but they make up for These downsides by upholding a fierce reputation as honourable and fierce warriors and making do with what little they have so that they can survive and their leaders (minus the boltons) and more humble and loyal than the south as they know that loyalty to the starks is rewarded and that it’s unity that helps the north survive too.
Part of what keeps the north so strong is the vicious natural selection process of their home. Only the strong can survive the winter
@@loremonkey indeed, you need only look at the winter wolves or the umbers for proof
@@WitcherGerd Mountain Clansmen too, those are some tough bastards.
@@nightfall3332 indeed, I haven’t finished the books yet, but don’t they (along with many other northmen) make the bulk of stannis army (if so I can see the reason he left milesandrae behind, her fanaticism would cause issues with the northmen)
Reminds me how the Fremen from Herbert's Dune evolved to be incredibly strong and skilled fighters due to adapting from the harsh deserts of Arrakis.
The leather shown in the shots here looks like what was known as a coat of plates. Metal plates were sewn into cloth (generally). This kept the ability to flex and move, but gave the protection of rigid plates.
Though in the shots here the square plates under the leather are fairly small which also makes it look like a variation on lamellar a bit.
Is a coat of plates another name for a brigandine?
@@Callsign_Bear they are similar but not exactly the same. But I was also mixing up the two when I posted. What the starks are shown wearing looks more like Brigandine than coat of plates.
Brigandine is smaller plates that don't overlap each other.
Coat of plates is bigger plates that overlap each other. Coat of plates is closer to actual plate armor.
Both are in a cloth or leather garment that holds them together though.
Hollywood: armor can deflect swords????
No no no! A light pat of a sword will make the wearer dramatically flop to the ground while giving out a little CGI burst of blood! Everyone knows this.
Invading the north is essentially impossible. Moat Calin and the crannogmen make sure of that.
A Southern Knight is just a very fancy corpse in the northern winter. A shabby looking Northern Cavalryman just looks shabby- but alive.
Brigandine is the type of armor on the starks. Plate segments of metal encased by leather and riveted.
It's supposed to be a coat of plates armor, the precursor to brigandine.
But it's the standard Hollywood-type coat of plates, with large gaps between the plates.
And then you see the fully plated Tyrells and Lanisters.
Also no clue how the Unsullied and Dothraki could fight in the North considering their clothing
Not just clothing but the fact they're from an area that's mainly hot and not, you know, cold as shit.
The best description I have read of Northern warriors, or at least my favorite, is (from Fire & Blood) by the dwarf Mushroom who called them “armored bears” with faces hidden behind long, thick beards. Southerners are not usually exposed to Northern warriors except those of House Manderly who retain the traditions of chivalry from their origins in The Reach to include dress, appearance, and religion. The other Northern warriors intimidated the hell out of the South.
Looks like primarily a combination of brigandine, leather, and chain mail for the common foot soldier.
I wish they stuck more to the armour in the books and the basis of the wars of the roses instead of making the soldiers look like there out of battle star Galactica
Despite some anachronistic elements, the armour in Netflix's the king is great
@@willothewisp4939 is that Henry the 5th? If it is yeah you’re right.
Yes, it's a film adaptation of Henry IV Part 2 and Henry V@@adammac4960
Fairly sure the "leather gambeson" is supposed to be brigandine which would explain the small rivets. Basically, that's individual plates arrayed to form a larger armour piece. Leather armour itself would have to be hardened to offer meaningfull protection.
You learn something new everyday
honestly the stark armor in the show looks really silly they should've got people more knowledgeable about medieval armor in the costume department
It is kinda weord lookin. What would you have changed about it?
@@loremonkey I would’ve had them wear some mail hood and hauberk under the leather gambeson and some type of nasal or kettle helmet because the one in the show is hideous
@@bcpablo35 but that's just it. The north dont care for aesthetics at all, especially in the midst of freaking war.
I'd argue that their armour looks purposefully drab because that plus them screaming with axes charging at you has got to be a terrifying sight to behold.
@@gnfo2871 it’s not about aesthetics I’m describing basic armor concepts the show writers didn’t understand
@@bcpablo35 I mean, they all die to a single sword slash anyway so they might as well be naked
Its actually a cloth gambeson layered with chain mail of any variety covered by a standardized leather based brigandine and steel faceless sallet. The men who served close to the Stark family members also had steel gorgets. Some soldiers also had cloth and chain coifs.
There's no such thing as "platemail". Plate and mail are both descriptors of a type of armor. You also describe the brigandine/coat of plates as a gambeson and describe the whole ensemble as a "mail". Mail, as in chain mail, is what they wear in the images of the book armor. You can also have plated mail, but I didn't see any of that.
Vid was pretty bad, might wanna take it down and rework it.
"All those hard sons of bitches chose him as their leader because they believe in him." - Ser Davos
Take that mustache man.
But the denzel lit up his own men.
My head canon is that the leather is a variation of a coat of plates, with each square being an insulated metal plate adding warmth and extra protection.
Starts at like a perfect mix of Viking warrior meets noble knight.
Even if it’s not flashy, nobody looked as badass in there armor as Robb Stark when he had on an animal cloak and had Grey Wind by his side, not even Tywin.
The pelt goes a long way for the aesthetic
@@loremonkey it just adds a sense of ruggedness and toughness to an already powerful set of armor, Robb was really on top until he got married. That’s what I don’t like about the Lannister armors, they’re too flashy and pretty looking, you’re supposed to be a soldier, not Westeros’s Next Top Model.
I really like this video, it's different from all the other asoiaf creators and still interesting enough for a short. Thanks!
Thanks! I do my best to keep it engaging
Plate mail? Tf is plate mail. He talking about a online dish store?
This comment makes me happy
Plate mail was an armour class in D&D. Basically half plate, half mail, as opposed to full plate.
Incorrect to use it in any context outside of D&D though
I wore full plate in the winter, its toasty, Martin has no clue
Maybe the north winter hits different
@@loremonkey think about it: a Wind and Waterproof layer (steel plate) on top of an insulating layer(Gambeson)
That "gambeson" worn on their torsos looks more like a coat-of-plates
These videos on the different armor for houses are interesting
I also think it was supposed to be a Plattenrock. But because of budget they cut it down to just leather pressed. You remember the wool chainmail in old movies? Like this. While you can press plate(lannisters) easy into plastic armor to make it look like plate. It’s much harder to show a Plattenrock.
It is unfortunate that budget restrictions limit vfx in shows so often.
I believe that’s brigandine armor that they’re wearing. You can see the rivets in their leather, which indicates that there’s steel plates woven together on the other side of the leather. Underneath all that would be a gambeson and/or chainmail for added protection and layers. Plate armor still provides better protection, but brigandine armor is less expensive, more flexible, lighter, and is still very effective. It’s very good armor to equip an army with and would be relatively easier to mass produce it for people of all sizes compared to fitting the cuirasses of plate armor to each individual.
A point regarding gambesons. Everyone is saying padded cloth, really it's not padded and more layered. The gambeson was the cheapest form of armour available and easier to get for hundreds to thousands of people. It also provides an amazing insulation layer, being used as the base layer when putting on armour. Gambeson, chain, plate.
Leather gamberson? Thats a brigandine.
The starks wear a coat of plates. I initially thought is was a leather gambeson, you can can very clearly see rivets in the leather holding plates in place. In the books its stated they were gambeson, chainmail, and then studded leather over that. In the show we no see no chain on a stark, and the studded leather(a fictional armor) seems to be replaced by it's realistic counterpart, a coat of plate or brigandine.
So many contrary things its hard to keep track
This old style of warfare I kind of prefer it is way more honorable and personal
Guns certainly muddy thing a bit
Yup they always looks well insulated
Staying cozy
Leather surcoat, gambeson is typically made of wool or other things not expensive leather.
I just wish newer Starks had the same ferocity and viciousness the old Kings of Winter had. The ancient Starks could rival the Boltons when it comes to cruel displays of power.
Those artworks look waaaay better
The show armor isn't the most aesthetic, but it gets the job done
@@loremonkey I think they would look alot cooler with atleast a nasal piece
that 'gembeson' looked like coat of plates or brigandine.
Plate would be worn with mail AND a cloth gambeson historically. That means that the historical gambeson provides more protection in itself and when layered, it would be much better
House stark has the coolest armour imo. Lannister armour looks more ceremonial than anything whereas Stark armour looks like it's meant for war.
Lannister armour reflects their wealth where as the starks and the North are no way as rich it part of the brilliant world building l love the lannister armour especially the one with 2 lions on the shoulder
The northern armor has a certain practicality to it that i respect.
I think the Lannister armor is really cool as well. Flashy but still effective
@@loremonkey I don't think that leather armor is very practical for the North. A regular fabric gambeson would be much warmer and, if waxed, would deal with getting wet from the snow much better than leather would.
nothing comes close to some ofthe classic targ armor
Th armor is actually a coat of plates, it’s a just a overcoat usually made with linen or leather that is made with small plates stitched inside for protection, it’s not full plate and it’s easier to make so it’s far cheaper to produce and buy in mass while offering good protection
No wonder they have a 4+ save or worse in the miniatures game. but have winter's might as an ability.
I havent played the tabletop game. Is it fun?
@@loremonkey it is very cheap to get into. Buy a starter box of your favorite faction and heroes box.
Meanwhile Dothraki plunges sword into face in first 15 seconds of the fight...
I think the leadership of the Stark army is much more interesting than the equipment. They won pretty much every battle and Robb was an amazing leader since he actually listened to his counsel. I feel like Robb would've been one of the best Kings of Westeros, especially once he got older and wiser.
Imagine listening to your advisors. I've had plenty of managers who could have used that advice!
Looks like a hybrid coat-of-plates/brigandine to me
Their armor similiar like Army on Northumbria during Viking Invasion. It is Good for hiding on snow but not for giant blow of sword. 7/10
The trade-offs you have to make to suit the environment
@@loremonkey Yup. because in Midevall age Resource was limited like iron. unlike 1500s - Present day. so they limited their armor they need to adapt 👍
Mail can easily deal with sword slashes and even lighter stabs in several cases
@@joubertpenilehaver5803 but not their head. also The Northern army Rarely using Chainmail (Only some lord like Roderick Dustin) most of them using leather. because their iron resource was limited.
@@joubertpenilehaver5803 Most army you see who wearing Chainmail on British museum was come from South Britain area like Kingdom of Mercia. also most of British Dynasty was Mercia decendant like now king Charles III.
The leather armor looks more like a coat of plates to me.
I like to think how each soldier in the North is few but to make up for the lack of skill training and cheaper armor, they're just naturally strong and practical than the average southern soldier that spent their lives training in drills in the city. Whereas a northern is expected to know how to fight in unfavorable terrains and live in harsh conditions so that makes a more robust body and spirit. In other words, they might lack sword training or fancy armor but they can smash through enemies with large swords and axes and keep killing for long periods of time. The quantity and quality of their numbers and weaponry suffers but they are the highest quality soldier in the seven kingdoms. Men who are practically strong enough to survive harsh winters and can kill 10 men each.
Im sorry but reading this it sounds like those northrons r gonna die in half a chapter. So they lack number, skill, training, and armor, but make it up by having strength and hardiness? They’d have to be super soldiers, a snowy land of 300,000 mountains who ride to balance those disadvantages
@@duyhungle9375 And somehow won every battle under Robb in the war so much that Tywin had to break guest right just because killing them in battle became nearly impossible unless some northern commander was 'dumb enough' to waste his soldiers. They were hard to gather and losing one meant more to them than the southerners because they were hard to replace. These were soldiers selected by nature so they had a harsh tradition where the weak were expected to die and only the strong will be what remains after every winter.
@@duyhungle9375 Where did it say they lack skill and training?
@@duyhungle9375Basically. Brandon "The Wild Wolf" Stark was noted to be bigger and stickier than Eddard "Ned-The Quiet Wolf" Stark. Greatjon Umber is noted to be taller than Ser Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane with strength to match, his son Little Jon Umber is just as tall and speculated to grow taller. Rickard Karstark is Almost as tall as Gregor but just as built. So needless to say most houses and clans in the north do have some superhumans among them. It's probably due to their strong connection to the Old God's and Children of the Forest.
@@purplefood1It's not wrong though. Most of the peoples times in the North consists of prepping for winter. Only the lords can really train and afford to have Masters at arms.
The Stark leather armor clearly has metal plates riveted in between the outer and inner pieces. That would make it a brigandine, not a gambison, which only has padding.
Clever video idea! Your my goto ASof lore guy
Thanks! The armor breakdown was actually the idea of one of my subscribers. Gald you like it and more to come!
🎉 my Homeland🎉
A man of the North!
In the books, they’re supposed to look more like Vikings or Anglo-Saxons.
They did the Stark armour so dirty in the show
As a history nerd, I just to point out that the armor favored by the Northmen in the show is specifically brigandine armor (albeit a poorly done version, hopefully HOTD does it better) which are overlapping steel plates sewn into the lining of a wool or leather shell. Gambesons are a different piece of armor, and the show does accurately depict the man-at-arms' wearing gambesons under the armor (though they could also be worn over mail hauberks). The helms are actually barbutes not half helms. Half helms really describe the Norman style helms. Half helms were called that because they only could cover half of the head with single piece of steel. Though some later helmets like the sallet and barbutes with visors could be worn with sections removed.
As with correctly naming and describing the gambeson you also got right that steel plate often reinforced certain parts of brigandine armor depending on the wealth of the owner. Some nobles used exclusively brigandine, but that is also because in addition to being cheaper, they could dye it or have their coat of arms embroidered.
Medieval armies were pretty much never uniform as outside of the military orders, everything had to be provided by the induvial soldiers. The retinues of wealthy and high ranking nobles were equipped by their liege but to my knowledge these were generally a minority even among the minority that would be mounted knights and were not uniform in equipment either.
Really good video on that armor here.
Why do medieval TV shows always need to make armor and clothing and everything so bland and grey?
And then they would be slowed down by all the weight and easily dispatched by hit and run tactics
Dothraki horde has entered the chat
I love the tabletop design
Less gray
I don’t wanna be that guy but the gambeson is what’s wore underneath and that is wool and very effective what is on the top is a coat of plates as u can literally see where the 4 nails are holding each plate in and that top part of maybe leather but yea it’s a wool gambeson and a coat of plates on top, and retry effective they even wear mail underneath all that too
Starks are Michiganders.
Gambeson is not made of leather, it’s usually made of linen. Leather was actually very rarely used for armor in the Middle Ages. That’s real life though so maybe GRRM has said something different, idk.
The default armor of the starks is a leather brigandine I thought, and underneath they wear a gray gambeson and mail
With the huge exception of the Lannisters where it’s their whole point, I get the vibe that most armies in Westeros are kind of ramshackle.
Everyone says it’s a coat of plates (and it looks like it) but it can’t stop an arrow or a sword (thanks god nobody is smart enough to use polearms if their armor is so shit.) so it may very well be just a soft leather jacket lmao
They all start wearing hoodies
Long sleeved gambeson with a chainmail cloak worn over it, would've been better looking for the low ranking Stark soldiers, With Stark men at arms and guards wearing lamenar and Stark family wearing brigadine armor. Leather would crack in cold and would limit the movement of the wearer. All that leather would also deplete the North of deer, cows and other animals.
The thing alot people forget about is that if you get hit in the head with a sword, it can still knock you out helmet or not, it’s a hunk of metal 😂 would I prefer helmet yes, it’s just something I don’t think people think about
The blunt force is still wild. Though if you both hit with a sword, and only one of you has a helmet, its a clear victor
That’s not a leather gambeson, it’s a coat of plates.
all throughout history nobody used leather armor its just a hollywood thing
Are you sure that’s a Gambon? I am fairly certain, that it is significantly more akin to brignedine.
They should have made the southern admitted come north during winter
Was it like this in the books though? I mean G.R.R.M bases both Stark and Lannister, and Westeros conflict in general on historical war calledd War of the Roses. During this period both sides wore one of the best types of heavy plate armor.
Realistically, the nobels would, but any peasant class would just wear what they could
Their armor could be a Jack of Plate, or a Brigandine.
Not sure "leather gambesons" are a thing; the ones they wear seem to be made out of cloth anyway.
Just to clarify: There is no such thing as a LEATHER gambeson.
the north remembers
I find the idea that the levies are uniformed ridiculous. For sure you might have your household guard or castle garrison armoured, since we know Westeros has well developed blacksmithing technologies. But I don’t see why they are all in this one uniform, it just never added up to me. I know in the books they discuss the Lannister men wearing the crested helms but again I just don’t see how they have 20k of these helmets ready for action when the war starts.
...and don't forget confy. C:
You forgot to cover the jet boots and repulsor Ray gauntlets
The North Remembers
Pretty sure that’s actually brigandine not Gambeson, you can see the plates sewn into the leather
Though the most badass armour in the entire lore is ofcourse the Baratheon/Durandon armour.
Leather is horrible for cold weather but go on
Normal gambeson are both more protective and keep you hotter than leather armor 😂.
( It's also a lot cheaper )
Leather gambeson is not a thing. Also not sure the leather part would be a good choice for warmth. Padding sure.
Please don't tell me the depiction of armor in that show is anywhere near realistic. It's made lo look cool and not inconvenience the actors too much. That's why we only see actual plate armor in S1, after that they gave up on it because it's too inconvenient. Yeah armor was inconvenient in real life too, that's why people didn't wear it all the time unlike in the show.
I feel like looking cool doesn't apply to the helmets very much
The leather gambeson is in many cases brigandine
I find the Starks more practical.
What is it? Cotton armor is rather effective in certain situations?
It's not a leather gambeson.
It's a classical coat of plates - however, not a very effective one.
If i were in the universe
Id do anything to be a northerner
I love their values
Or the night watch
Nights watch is a rough post. I commend you
leather is the absolute worst possible material for keeping warm, and its also highly impractical for use as armor. if this were reality, they'd not wear leather.
they would definitely be taking on a real world medieval norse aesthetic with thick woolen tunics and trousers. the nobility and wealthy would certainly wear full plate. winter isnt suitable for military campaigns so i dont think the weather would be an issue for the armor
The gambeson is wool or cotton
Probably for budget purposes
Have you noticed that this leather armor has metal plates, like small squares under the leather?
Its steel plate with a leather covering