Glad you gave credit to MTB Mike - He's the pioneer for sure. I have the M version. I did the 160 / 160 mullet mod last summer after about six months riding. I went with DVO Topaz - The mod felt great - love the DVO. However- the Rise never really felt composed on high speed chuck. A couple of months ago - I went all in - 170f and coil rear shock. It now handles everything I throw at it at any speed. Full on Enduro now. My non e bike is going to get very jealous and lonely.
@@KurtRWalker it was better then stock at 160/160 for sure. I really like the topaz but at speed in the chunk it got of control quickly. I admit it could be my skill but wasn’t handling it well. 170/160 with coil is as smooth as can be.
I did the same and even tried a 160/180 full 27.5 too. Fun to play around with but in the end it actually rides better in the stock configuration in my opinion.
I was tempted to go with a 170 fork, but I thought that might be pushing it. I like the 160/160 mullet quite a bit more than the 140/140 29er for the trails I've been riding.
Thanks for the likeable, informative video. I am also into buying an Orbea Rise and I would customize it right from the start. The store already offers a FOX 36 with at least 150mm of travel. 140mm in the rear fits my ride, cause I am not doing big jumps to flat. The worst thing is, that almost every bike on the market today has 29er wheels while I am still on 26er and love them for the nimble ride. I would love to have an Orbea with 27.5 in the front and the rear, but could also imagine a mullet setup. Other than that the Orbea in conjunction with the EP8 RS seems to be the light E-Bike to go....
Strange, I did the same mods on my Orbea Occam and it destroyed the stability of the bike, but my bike was XL.. maybe this is doable on smaller frames. I found that 150/140 is the sweet spot for that frame. It is meant to go fast, not so much on jumping rocks :)
The Rise rocks! Be cautious with the carbon frame on aggressive rides for bigger guys. They are prone to snapping the rear triangle. I work for Orbea. Another option is to make the Wild Fs light weight. I have mine down to 42.5 pounds.
Ya, if I was buying brand new today, I'd go with the Wild (or maybe that new Transition if I I wanted one bike for everything--the removable battery for shuttles & park days is pretty intriguing).
@@IDoBlues totally! The 2020 to 2022 wild fs is the perfect split between full enduro and full trail. its truly the perfect all around bike! The new Wild is significantly more enduro, but is gonna be one hell of a bike. Cant wait for them to ship! Cheers!
@@dft1 the ergos would be so intense with a mullet set up on the new wild. The chain stay is way shorter now so itll be more playful regardless I have a carbon mullet 2022 wild ltd and its a blast though!
Hi! Greets from Austria!! Your Video inspired me to modify my Rise (H30) and I am very happy with the setup now. The guys from Offset Bushings do a great job and the 159mm at the rear are really a difference, Thanks for the inspiration! Safe and helathy rides all year long!!!!
Have the Rise 20 mph with the 36/150 fork. Upgraded the tires and put 203 rotors on it. Not an enduro bike, but handles pretty much any trail you throw it at that isn't a pro line or full of huge gaps or big drops to flat, and still only weighs 42 lbs including pedals, bottle cage, etc. I only weigh 155, so that probably makes a difference. I also obsessively tune my suspension to get it right.
Ya, I'm a lightweight @ 140-150. I really notice the lower weight of the Rise compared to the heavier ones I've tried. Feels closer to my regular enduro bike than a full-powered ebike.
That looks awesome! I've also got a 160 Fox fork on the front of my Rise M10. I love it. But still the 140 DPX2 on the rear. Suits me fine for now. Just wish it was warm enough here in Calgary to ride!
I am riding with the same setup, but 150 up front and havent added the 160 air spring. How is the Dpx2 for you and how many hours did you get in before it started cavitating ?
I was going to do the same thing, but weighing 100 pounds more than you do, I ended up going with a yt decoy and a gen 3 levo. I had a levo sl and loved the bike , hated the lack of range and power. With your weight, I bet that bike shreds up and down.
excellent bike and excellent changes. I think it would be the same that I would do, If I was more handy as a bike mechanic :-D I guess I will start with changing the Tires to the DHR just like you did. And MAYBE changing the rear tire to a 27,5. I think this will help the most with the feeling that I could go easily over the bars on the trails :D
Oh, I'm no bike mechanic AT ALL. I did some of the work, but got help with some of the more complex updates. Simply moving to a mullet without changing the fork & shock will alter the geo of the bike so be mindful there.
I have a lumbar fusion, which is also broken in my back due to a fall. I ride Rise, Wild, a analog hardtails and regular bikes. I am fine now, riding helped me get back, but no jumping and risky downhills. How do you fair with the screws in your spine?
Great recovery! I'm sorry you had to go through with that. I actually just had the screws removed last week--about 2 years after the fusion. I was still getting muscle & nerve irritation so decided to give it a try. We'll see how things turn out by the summer. I'll be in physio for 2 months before I get back in the bike.
What do you guys do and take for any kind of therapy or pain relief? I have had a disc bulge for many years now that they consider not worth operating on or risk causing me more damage, but I can't pedal without causing back and leg pain/spasms/weakness which is why I'm looking into ebikes.
@@LastAphelion I highly recommend two books. (1) Back Mechanic by Stuart McGill, (2) True To Form by Eric Goodman. After dealing with back issues (& multiple surgeries) over the past 10 years, those two books are the best I've seen. Both of them offer good tips and exercises that really help. My eBike has really helped me deal with the climbs. I prefer my analog bike on the descents, but my eBike is pretty close and it does save my back. Getting an eBike changed everything for me. I also recommend raising your bars with either some extra spacers or high rise bars. That really helps too. Shorter cranks might also offer some relief. I'm 5'7-ish (171cm) and I ride 155mm cranks.
@@IDoBlues Thank you so much I will check them out, and I guess I was already on the right track interested in trying short cranks on whatever new bike I pick! I'm the same height, do you feel like 29" wheels puts more stress on your joints? I can handle dozens of laps on my 26"er but when I tried going to 29" this year it puts too much stress on my back and knees to pedal and wondered if 29"s are just too big for my size (I never felt small, but I feel like a tiny guy on 29" flopping back and forth on a penny farthing haha). Considering mullet or full 27.5" for my first full sus
@@LastAphelion I'm fully a mullet convert! Highly highly highly recommend them for people our size! It's so nice having the big 29 up front for rolling over everything, but having that smaller wheel out back reduces the chance of butt buzz and feels better on the corners. Not sure I noticed a difference on back stress (especially on the ebike), but overall, I just have more fun on the mullet.
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Hey loved the video, very informative!. I am thinking of going to a manitou mezzer 160mm up front, +13mm over fox 36 150, and 216x63mm with offset bushings rear. In theory this should slacken the headtube angle like .5* a degree and just lift it up ~10mm front and rear. Is there a reason to think this set up wouldn't handle well as a 29er, being that it is so close to stock geo with more travel? Or do you think going to a mullet is necessary?
Honestly, I'm not sure. Maybe? You'll need to deep dive that math. The mullet was key to get the geo I wanted, but with the right setup of fork, shock & bushing offset, I don't see why you can't go full 29er.
I’ve got a 160 Lyrik and 29 front, and 160 DVO Topaz air with 29 and 2 offset bushings rear on my Rise. 65 HA, -15 reach and 340-ish BB. Very capable, really like it this way. Will try 27.5 rear for playfullness as next thing, then possibly 170 up front :)
Awesome! Let me know how it goes if you go 170 with a mullet. I really do like the feel of mullets--both on my Rise and my Dreadnought. I notice it most in berms.
Been thinking about a Topaz for longer service intervals on my m10 carbon, 150/140, I have not added the 160 air spring I have yet for the 36 either. Not sure I will go longer on the rear shock. I guess we will see once I add more travel to the front first. I ride in the nasty steep deserts of Vegas and SW.
@@KurtRWalker I tried 160f/140r first, 64.5 HA. Really liked the geo for chunky natural "trailduro" trails, but 140 rear with the DPS on my M20 felt undergunned. The Topaz is much smooter and very adjustable, and 160 helps a lot. 29 rear and two offset bushings is fine but I really liked it slightly slacker, hence 27.5 rear or 170 front as next step. There is also 210x57.5 version of the Topaz T3 gen 1, should give just under 150 rear travel without changing geo and could be really good.
@@petterastrom4322 Where do you ride? I ride pretty nasty stuff in the desert: Utah, AZ, Vegas and rarely feel under gunned and I am still at 150/140, but I am a bit crazy too lol. I will move to 160 but wasnt sure if I will go 160 on the back.
@@KurtRWalker You probably ride bigger stuff than I, I ride mostly pretty chunky natural trails, similar to US east cost maybe. Not much flow or man-made trails, although some bike park. I think moving from the 34 and DPS on my M20 to the Lyrik and DVO was a big part of it, they felt much more capable. But the extra travel helps too, I normally use about 150 of it. It really helps me to push and develop, but a better rider is probably fine with 140 quality suspension for what I ride. I went 160 front first and really liked the 64.5 HA, but then wanted to try 160 rear too.
I wonder how much of a difference does mullet and ext make compared to just a new piggy-back shock? I'm thinking of getting a Rise, but putting on the 2023 super deluxe with Megneg, and a 160mm Lyric with the new damper/buttercups. I get rockshocks stuff for decent discount...
Mullets definitely have a different feel than full 29ers. I prefer mullets (both my bikes are now mx). The EXT coil is pretty sweet. I think coils in general have a bit more of a plusher feel which I like. If you like a poppier feeling bike, an air shock is probably the best choice.
Oh man, I love it! Both my bikes are now mullets. I really like the 29 up front--feels more capable in the jank. But I love the extra ass space the 27.5 gives in the rear--less butt buzz for sure on the steep rolls & features. Not sure if it's placebo or what, but in my head, it feels more playful in the corners than my full 29er.
@I Do Blues thanks. Interesting. At 173cm, I might be a couple cm taller than you and trying to figure out whether the butt buzz will be a deal breaker. I've also been pondering whether mullet bikes are really here to stay or if we'll all be riding full 29 except for smaller sized frames. I did try an Instinct a while back, but as it was my first 29er ride, I took it easy. I think it's worth another trip to Endless.
@@briannyob7799 I'm 171cm. I was totally comfortable on full 29ers. ...but I have more fun on mullets. I had the some butt buzz on the 29ers. Having the 29 up front is really noticable when it comes to rolling over things (rock gardens, roots, etc). I'd have a hard time going back to a 27.5 up front. My brother (about 174cm) is a waaay better biker than me and has been riding for 20+ years (started on 26ers). He's been on 29ers for years now and loved them. He tried a mullet this year for the first time and has since completely switched over to them. He finds them better in the corners, better for jumping, and more playful in general.
I was wondering when they'd release one. Makes so much sense. I even emailed them when I was working on this conversion asking if they had one in the works (they didn't at the time). I wonder if anyone has played around with that to then concert it to a mullet with an overfork to slacken it?
Ya, I've heard of a few people going with a 170mm fork & a rear 29er. They did boost the rear shock. Check out this vid -> th-cam.com/video/KUgR2Mt62vY/w-d-xo.html
Yes, there is a rattle noise on the EP8 on the rough sections of the descents. I don't really notice it though in the moment--I notice it more on my video clips. No rattle on the climbs (pretty quiet motor in general). Q factor? Are you trying to make me revisit highschool physics? (I have no idea if the Q factor of the 5Dev cranks are more or less than Shimano cranks.)
Yes. That's a good point. It does hit it's limiter earlier. But I don't notice it out on the trails. I don't ride full speed on the climbs, and I'm most interested in gravity descents. And oh ya, I'm sure I'm offside on the warranty on the frame and the EXT shock on this one. ....but I'm not sure how much warranty I had left....it's 2-years old already.
I have the Rise H20. I upgraded the front brake to a 203 but without also upgrading the calipers not much better. Does this void any frame warranty claims?
Here I am back again 😅 Im riding the 2021 M-Team Rise in size L. I'm 185cm tall and weigh only 62-65kg. I guess I did way too much research until now and ended up somewhat confused and unsure what would be best for me. So now I'm trying my luck asking for your advice and maybe I'm lucky enough getting an answer from you 🥲 I already like how my rise rides but I really want to enduro it with a 160 or even 170mm fox 36 fork + 160mm shock. Do I have to mullet it to make it work? I'm kinda scared about the reduced bb height and resulting pedal strikes from it. Also the shorter reach intimidates since I already had to switch out the 50mm stock stem to 65mm because for my height it felt too short... I'd appreciate any advice from you ALOT! Sending out some love for you and your family 🙂♥️
@@InfectAion I'm actually not sure if you keep the 140mm rear and increase the fork to 160 if you have to mullet it. I think there are some videos out there of guys who did in fact do that. I do know, that to keep the geo reasonable, if you want to up the fork to 160 and the rear travel to 160, you do need to switch to a mullet (and use an offset bushing on the shock).
I *think* you need to add 2 offset bushings (one on each end) to make it work as a full 29er. I only needed to us one for the mullet. Offsetbushings.com sell them as a pair.
@@IDoBlues thank you. one more question. If I wanted to run a 170/160, I would probably just need to get a 170 fork and still keep the 2 offset bushings right? Thanks again
@@mickm8255 I think that's right, but I'd do a little more digging around youtube or maybe emtbforums.com to see if you can find anyone who has done it.
It reduces your top speed for motor assist. With the style of riding I do, I didn't notice any difference in battery or distance (though I imagine there is some effect on that).
Thanks for sharing, appreciate it! Does anyone know if a DVO Jade or Jade X would fit into the carbon frame in M without rubbing or hitting it somewhere?
Ya, interesting eh. Mine was the M-LTD (now modified). XTR drivetrain. I added a OneUp carbon bar. Took off the upper chain guard. Lighter wheelset. Lighter saddle. I guess it all adds up.
I still have it, but haven't been missing it. I've been riding with glasses lately so I'm not getting anything in my eyes, and so far, no mud spots on my camera.
@@mtb_3930 The limiter uses the rpm on the rear wheel, so the speed limit is reduced when you go to a mullet. I converted for pretty steep descents--I haven't noticed that reduced limit at all.
I thought it was 46 lbs...but I could be wrong there. But ya, the Wild is amazing. If it was out at the same time I bought my Rise, I probably would have gone with the Wild (especially if it really comes in at 42 lbs).
The two main expenses were the shock and the fork. I bought my Fox 36 for $1200 CDN (you can probably get them cheaper now). I sold my Fox 34 for $700. So that upgrade was $500. I really splurged on the shock. The EXT was $1400 CDN all in, and I sold my old Fox DPS shock for $400 CDN. So that upgrade was $1000. I could have gone with a Fox coil and saved $400-500 there, but I really like those EXT shocks (so ya, a splurge for sure). The offset bushings were $55 CDN. So the fork/shock upgrades came to a total of $1555. For the wheels, I'll sell the rear one for about $600 and am using the front for a mullet build for my son. But let's say I just replaced the rear and sold the rear which I would have done if I wasn't building one up for my son. In that case, I bought the rim (Revel RW30) for $400 CDN, and the DT Swiss rear hub for $277 CDN. It cost me $225 CDN to get it built up with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. So that rear wheel came to $902. So after selling my old one, that's about $302 for that upgrade. The 203mm front rotor came to $35 CDN. The 155mm cranks were also a major splurge. They came to $530 CDN. But now that I'm on 155mm, I'd have a hard time going back to 165 or 170 (due to my height and injuries). That part of the rebuild is very specific to me though--totally unnecessary for most people. I sold my old 165mm ones for $40 (pretty beaten up). So that comes to $510. The Bike Yoke 160mm dropper came to $470 CDN. I sold my old Fox Transfer 150mm for $225 CDN. So that upgrade came to $245. So totals for the upgrades (in CDN)... Fork: $500 Shock: $1055 Rear 27.5 wheel: $302 203mm rotor: $35 Cranks: $510 Dropper: $245 TOTAL: $2647 CDN (which is about $1987 USD) The parts I replaced had two seasons of riding on them, so those upgrades are for geo/function of the enduro project, but also a refresher too.
If I did it with more of an eye on budget, I would have gone with the Fox shock and I wouldn't have replaced the cranks. In that case, the cost would look more like (in CDN).... Fork: $500 Shock: $605 Rear 27.5 wheel: $302 203mm rotor: $35 Dropper: $245 TOTAL: $1687 CDN (which is about $1266 USD)
Follow up question: I am 230lbs, I ride mainly Fromme and Seymour and never for longer than about 2hrs on a Ibis Ripmo v2. I am considering an eMTB so I can get more laps in. Would you recommend an Orbea Rise + simmilar uprades you just did? Or if you had carte blanche, is there a new stock option that is already suitable? It seems like you have made what brands should be offering but don't yet.
I already had the Rise but I started feeling under-gunned on the trails I was riding. It was cheaper to beef it up then sell it and buy a new one, plus this is lighter than any other out there. I liked the original Rise, but I love it even more now that I've made those changes.
easy easy.... there is nothing enduro.... geo is more like a bit outdated trail bike.... (or 10y old enduro) how about stiffness of rear triangle? everyone says is pretty flexy .... and other full power ebikes are more like 22.5-23kg (alu, yes, 24-26kg)
Eh? What’s old skool about any of that build? Seriously - what trail bike has/had a 64-degree HA? The reach shortened, but to the right size for the owner - and The Same As His Dreadnought. Genuinely - what is antiquated here?
I'm not even sure enduro was a thing 10 years ago. And I don't know many trail bikes with a 64 HTA. But a label is a label. Enduro, down-country, trail. I like the numbers. And for the trails I ride, a 64 HTA feels better than a 66. And 160 travel feels better than 140. I'm pretty light, so I don't notice a flexy rear triangle.
I have this bike and yeah it’s definitely a “ Trail” bike , I wish it was a bit slacker because when you’re going downhill it feels like I’m gonna go otb , it’s not a good feeling to be honest, I miss my Orbea Wild 😢
I agree. After the mods though, this bike becomes much more capable on the steeps. I can't recommend it enough if you are pushing it past being a trail bike.
Glad you gave credit to MTB Mike - He's the pioneer for sure. I have the M version. I did the 160 / 160 mullet mod last summer after about six months riding. I went with DVO Topaz - The mod felt great - love the DVO. However- the Rise never really felt composed on high speed chuck. A couple of months ago - I went all in - 170f and coil rear shock. It now handles everything I throw at it at any speed. Full on Enduro now. My non e bike is going to get very jealous and lonely.
Right on! People keep tempting me to go 170 fork!
Even at 160 it didnt feel composed?
@@KurtRWalker it was better then stock at 160/160 for sure. I really like the topaz but at speed in the chunk it got of control quickly. I admit it could be my skill but wasn’t handling it well. 170/160 with coil is as smooth as can be.
@@LeoScarboroughMTB Is it 170/160 in the mullet configuration still?
I did the same and even tried a 160/180 full 27.5 too. Fun to play around with but in the end it actually rides better in the stock configuration in my opinion.
I was tempted to go with a 170 fork, but I thought that might be pushing it. I like the 160/160 mullet quite a bit more than the 140/140 29er for the trails I've been riding.
Thanks for the likeable, informative video. I am also into buying an Orbea Rise and I would customize it right from the start. The store already offers a FOX 36 with at least 150mm of travel. 140mm in the rear fits my ride, cause I am not doing big jumps to flat. The worst thing is, that almost every bike on the market today has 29er wheels while I am still on 26er and love them for the nimble ride. I would love to have an Orbea with 27.5 in the front and the rear, but could also imagine a mullet setup. Other than that the Orbea in conjunction with the EP8 RS seems to be the light E-Bike to go....
Strange, I did the same mods on my Orbea Occam and it destroyed the stability of the bike, but my bike was XL.. maybe this is doable on smaller frames. I found that 150/140 is the sweet spot for that frame. It is meant to go fast, not so much on jumping rocks :)
The Rise rocks!
Be cautious with the carbon frame on aggressive rides for bigger guys. They are prone to snapping the rear triangle. I work for Orbea.
Another option is to make the Wild Fs light weight. I have mine down to 42.5 pounds.
Ya, if I was buying brand new today, I'd go with the Wild (or maybe that new Transition if I I wanted one bike for everything--the removable battery for shuttles & park days is pretty intriguing).
@@IDoBlues totally!
The 2020 to 2022 wild fs is the perfect split between full enduro and full trail. its truly the perfect all around bike! The new Wild is significantly more enduro, but is gonna be one hell of a bike. Cant wait for them to ship!
Cheers!
@@DorDor400 Wish the new wild was mullet, love mullet
@@dft1 the ergos would be so intense with a mullet set up on the new wild. The chain stay is way shorter now so itll be more playful regardless
I have a carbon mullet 2022 wild ltd and its a blast though!
@@DorDor400 it wouldnt be too low? would you have to change any links or anything for mullet?
I did same exact mod just used DHX2 with a SLS coil, made a great bike even better.
Hi! Greets from Austria!! Your Video inspired me to modify my Rise (H30) and I am very happy with the setup now. The guys from Offset Bushings do a great job and the 159mm at the rear are really a difference, Thanks for the inspiration! Safe and helathy rides all year long!!!!
Right on! I'm loving mine too.
Have the Rise 20 mph with the 36/150 fork. Upgraded the tires and put 203 rotors on it. Not an enduro bike, but handles pretty much any trail you throw it at that isn't a pro line or full of huge gaps or big drops to flat, and still only weighs 42 lbs including pedals, bottle cage, etc. I only weigh 155, so that probably makes a difference. I also obsessively tune my suspension to get it right.
Ya, I'm a lightweight @ 140-150. I really notice the lower weight of the Rise compared to the heavier ones I've tried. Feels closer to my regular enduro bike than a full-powered ebike.
I have an orbea rise, I loved the modifications. good job. maybe one day I will change the suspensions to 160mm
I LOVE how it rides with mods.
That looks awesome! I've also got a 160 Fox fork on the front of my Rise M10. I love it. But still the 140 DPX2 on the rear. Suits me fine for now. Just wish it was warm enough here in Calgary to ride!
I hear you. Lucky to be able to ride year round here.
I am riding with the same setup, but 150 up front and havent added the 160 air spring. How is the Dpx2 for you and how many hours did you get in before it started cavitating ?
@@KurtRWalker I just took it in for a rebuild. First one since I got it. Haven't ridden it yet.
I was going to do the same thing, but weighing 100 pounds more than you do, I ended up going with a yt decoy and a gen 3 levo. I had a levo sl and loved the bike , hated the lack of range and power. With your weight, I bet that bike shreds up and down.
The bike can shred the downs. The rider....well....
excellent bike and excellent changes. I think it would be the same that I would do, If I was more handy as a bike mechanic :-D I guess I will start with changing the Tires to the DHR just like you did. And MAYBE changing the rear tire to a 27,5. I think this will help the most with the feeling that I could go easily over the bars on the trails :D
Oh, I'm no bike mechanic AT ALL. I did some of the work, but got help with some of the more complex updates. Simply moving to a mullet without changing the fork & shock will alter the geo of the bike so be mindful there.
Great report thanks
I have a lumbar fusion, which is also broken in my back due to a fall. I ride Rise, Wild, a analog hardtails and regular bikes. I am fine now, riding helped me get back, but no jumping and risky downhills. How do you fair with the screws in your spine?
Great recovery! I'm sorry you had to go through with that. I actually just had the screws removed last week--about 2 years after the fusion. I was still getting muscle & nerve irritation so decided to give it a try. We'll see how things turn out by the summer. I'll be in physio for 2 months before I get back in the bike.
What do you guys do and take for any kind of therapy or pain relief? I have had a disc bulge for many years now that they consider not worth operating on or risk causing me more damage, but I can't pedal without causing back and leg pain/spasms/weakness which is why I'm looking into ebikes.
@@LastAphelion I highly recommend two books. (1) Back Mechanic by Stuart McGill, (2) True To Form by Eric Goodman. After dealing with back issues (& multiple surgeries) over the past 10 years, those two books are the best I've seen. Both of them offer good tips and exercises that really help.
My eBike has really helped me deal with the climbs. I prefer my analog bike on the descents, but my eBike is pretty close and it does save my back. Getting an eBike changed everything for me.
I also recommend raising your bars with either some extra spacers or high rise bars. That really helps too. Shorter cranks might also offer some relief. I'm 5'7-ish (171cm) and I ride 155mm cranks.
@@IDoBlues Thank you so much I will check them out, and I guess I was already on the right track interested in trying short cranks on whatever new bike I pick! I'm the same height, do you feel like 29" wheels puts more stress on your joints? I can handle dozens of laps on my 26"er but when I tried going to 29" this year it puts too much stress on my back and knees to pedal and wondered if 29"s are just too big for my size (I never felt small, but I feel like a tiny guy on 29" flopping back and forth on a penny farthing haha). Considering mullet or full 27.5" for my first full sus
@@LastAphelion I'm fully a mullet convert! Highly highly highly recommend them for people our size! It's so nice having the big 29 up front for rolling over everything, but having that smaller wheel out back reduces the chance of butt buzz and feels better on the corners. Not sure I noticed a difference on back stress (especially on the ebike), but overall, I just have more fun on the mullet.
If you would like to purchase a set of Catalyst pedals (best flats out there in my opinion), consider using this affiliate link. All proceeds I make from this affiliate link will be donated to local trail builders. You can try the pedals, and if you don't love them, you can send them back for a full refund. bit.ly/catalystpedals
Hey loved the video, very informative!. I am thinking of going to a manitou mezzer 160mm up front, +13mm over fox 36 150, and 216x63mm with offset bushings rear. In theory this should slacken the headtube angle like .5* a degree and just lift it up ~10mm front and rear. Is there a reason to think this set up wouldn't handle well as a 29er, being that it is so close to stock geo with more travel? Or do you think going to a mullet is necessary?
Honestly, I'm not sure. Maybe? You'll need to deep dive that math. The mullet was key to get the geo I wanted, but with the right setup of fork, shock & bushing offset, I don't see why you can't go full 29er.
Man, I'm a sucker for Orbeas since buying my Laufey... already thinking on getting an Occam.
The Occam looks killer!
I’ve got a 160 Lyrik and 29 front, and 160 DVO Topaz air with 29 and 2 offset bushings rear on my Rise. 65 HA, -15 reach and 340-ish BB. Very capable, really like it this way. Will try 27.5 rear for playfullness as next thing, then possibly 170 up front :)
Awesome! Let me know how it goes if you go 170 with a mullet. I really do like the feel of mullets--both on my Rise and my Dreadnought. I notice it most in berms.
Been thinking about a Topaz for longer service intervals on my m10 carbon, 150/140, I have not added the 160 air spring I have yet for the 36 either. Not sure I will go longer on the rear shock. I guess we will see once I add more travel to the front first. I ride in the nasty steep deserts of Vegas and SW.
@@KurtRWalker I tried 160f/140r first, 64.5 HA. Really liked the geo for chunky natural "trailduro" trails, but 140 rear with the DPS on my M20 felt undergunned. The Topaz is much smooter and very adjustable, and 160 helps a lot. 29 rear and two offset bushings is fine but I really liked it slightly slacker, hence 27.5 rear or 170 front as next step.
There is also 210x57.5 version of the Topaz T3 gen 1, should give just under 150 rear travel without changing geo and could be really good.
@@petterastrom4322 Where do you ride? I ride pretty nasty stuff in the desert: Utah, AZ, Vegas and rarely feel under gunned and I am still at 150/140, but I am a bit crazy too lol. I will move to 160 but wasnt sure if I will go 160 on the back.
@@KurtRWalker You probably ride bigger stuff than I, I ride mostly pretty chunky natural trails, similar to US east cost maybe. Not much flow or man-made trails, although some bike park. I think moving from the 34 and DPS on my M20 to the Lyrik and DVO was a big part of it, they felt much more capable. But the extra travel helps too, I normally use about 150 of it. It really helps me to push and develop, but a better rider is probably fine with 140 quality suspension for what I ride. I went 160 front first and really liked the 64.5 HA, but then wanted to try 160 rear too.
Thanks for this great video. Can i use a Shock 210mmx60mm, without 2mm offset bushing? How big would the rear suspension travel be, also 160mm?
I'm not sure if that would work to be honest. Maybe?
I wonder how much of a difference does mullet and ext make compared to just a new piggy-back shock? I'm thinking of getting a Rise, but putting on the 2023 super deluxe with Megneg, and a 160mm Lyric with the new damper/buttercups. I get rockshocks stuff for decent discount...
Mullets definitely have a different feel than full 29ers. I prefer mullets (both my bikes are now mx). The EXT coil is pretty sweet. I think coils in general have a bit more of a plusher feel which I like. If you like a poppier feeling bike, an air shock is probably the best choice.
What do you think of the mullet vs the full 29er? I've been pondering a new bike to replace my 27.5 Altitude.
Oh man, I love it! Both my bikes are now mullets. I really like the 29 up front--feels more capable in the jank. But I love the extra ass space the 27.5 gives in the rear--less butt buzz for sure on the steep rolls & features. Not sure if it's placebo or what, but in my head, it feels more playful in the corners than my full 29er.
@I Do Blues thanks. Interesting. At 173cm, I might be a couple cm taller than you and trying to figure out whether the butt buzz will be a deal breaker. I've also been pondering whether mullet bikes are really here to stay or if we'll all be riding full 29 except for smaller sized frames. I did try an Instinct a while back, but as it was my first 29er ride, I took it easy. I think it's worth another trip to Endless.
@@briannyob7799 I'm 171cm. I was totally comfortable on full 29ers. ...but I have more fun on mullets. I had the some butt buzz on the 29ers. Having the 29 up front is really noticable when it comes to rolling over things (rock gardens, roots, etc). I'd have a hard time going back to a 27.5 up front. My brother (about 174cm) is a waaay better biker than me and has been riding for 20+ years (started on 26ers). He's been on 29ers for years now and loved them. He tried a mullet this year for the first time and has since completely switched over to them. He finds them better in the corners, better for jumping, and more playful in general.
Check cascade components you get a linkage with 150mm
I was wondering when they'd release one. Makes so much sense. I even emailed them when I was working on this conversion asking if they had one in the works (they didn't at the time). I wonder if anyone has played around with that to then concert it to a mullet with an overfork to slacken it?
Nice work!!!You think it would work with a 170 mm in front and the 29 wheel?
Ya, I've heard of a few people going with a 170mm fork & a rear 29er. They did boost the rear shock. Check out this vid -> th-cam.com/video/KUgR2Mt62vY/w-d-xo.html
Have you noticed more pedal strikes with the mullet and 160mm rear travel?
No. The conversion actually raised the bottom bracket 3mm.
@@IDoBlues That's good to hear. No issues on big compressions? Just worried about that extra 20mm of travel on full compression doing bad things lol
@@FreeRangeChicken_MTB No issues so far.
first have you got rattle noise with the shim ep8 and second question is the Q factor of the dv5 more large than the shimano cranck?
Yes, there is a rattle noise on the EP8 on the rough sections of the descents. I don't really notice it though in the moment--I notice it more on my video clips. No rattle on the climbs (pretty quiet motor in general). Q factor? Are you trying to make me revisit highschool physics? (I have no idea if the Q factor of the 5Dev cranks are more or less than Shimano cranks.)
With a smaller rear wheel do you not hit the limiter earlier? I guess the warranty went bye-bye, too, with a 27.5.
Yes. That's a good point. It does hit it's limiter earlier. But I don't notice it out on the trails. I don't ride full speed on the climbs, and I'm most interested in gravity descents. And oh ya, I'm sure I'm offside on the warranty on the frame and the EXT shock on this one. ....but I'm not sure how much warranty I had left....it's 2-years old already.
I have the Rise H20. I upgraded the front brake to a 203 but without also upgrading the calipers not much better. Does this void any frame warranty claims?
My guess is no. But I'm not 100% sure.
Why did you chose coil over air damper?
And great video, really helps alot!
I find coils provide better traction.
Here I am back again 😅
Im riding the 2021 M-Team Rise in size L.
I'm 185cm tall and weigh only 62-65kg.
I guess I did way too much research until now and ended up somewhat confused and unsure what would be best for me.
So now I'm trying my luck asking for your advice and maybe I'm lucky enough getting an answer from you 🥲
I already like how my rise rides but I really want to enduro it with a 160 or even 170mm fox 36 fork + 160mm shock. Do I have to mullet it to make it work? I'm kinda scared about the reduced bb height and resulting pedal strikes from it. Also the shorter reach intimidates since I already had to switch out the 50mm stock stem to 65mm because for my height it felt too short...
I'd appreciate any advice from you ALOT!
Sending out some love for you and your family 🙂♥️
@@InfectAion I'm actually not sure if you keep the 140mm rear and increase the fork to 160 if you have to mullet it. I think there are some videos out there of guys who did in fact do that. I do know, that to keep the geo reasonable, if you want to up the fork to 160 and the rear travel to 160, you do need to switch to a mullet (and use an offset bushing on the shock).
Great video. What would you should be the offset bushing setup if I want to keep my 29” rear and still run 160/160?
I *think* you need to add 2 offset bushings (one on each end) to make it work as a full 29er. I only needed to us one for the mullet. Offsetbushings.com sell them as a pair.
@@IDoBlues thank you. one more question. If I wanted to run a 170/160, I would probably just need to get a 170 fork and still keep the 2 offset bushings right? Thanks again
@@mickm8255 I think that's right, but I'd do a little more digging around youtube or maybe emtbforums.com to see if you can find anyone who has done it.
@@IDoBlues cheers. Thanks. See you on the Shore sometime. If you're ever out in Maple Ridge, let me know and I'll join you on Thornhill or Woodlot
@@mickm8255 Loved Thornhill the other week. Still need to get out to Woodlot!
What was the impact of the 27.5 rear wheel change on battery / distance?
It reduces your top speed for motor assist. With the style of riding I do, I didn't notice any difference in battery or distance (though I imagine there is some effect on that).
Nice Video, to bad you couldn't use EXT e-storia. Randomly I noticed my POV video of e-storia :))
Ya, I wish the e-storia would have worked out.
Thanks for sharing, appreciate it!
Does anyone know if a DVO Jade or Jade X would fit into the carbon frame in M without rubbing or hitting it somewhere?
My guess is it would be fine considering the EXT Arma and Fox DHX2 both work. ....but I can't say for sure.
Do you really need to make it mullet for the 160mm travel or you just do it for the geometry?
You could bump it to 160mm and keep the 29er, but it would have a different geo.
Does the coil shock Rub at all on the medium Frame?
I haven't seen any evidence on mine of that happening.
Hi. How did you achieve 16.34 kg. I have the M20 size medium and I’m getting 19,8kg. I’m just asking myself, where are those 2 kg hidden?
Ya, interesting eh. Mine was the M-LTD (now modified). XTR drivetrain. I added a OneUp carbon bar. Took off the upper chain guard. Lighter wheelset. Lighter saddle. I guess it all adds up.
I have a medium M20 with beefier tires, saddle and pedals, a 150/36 fork, and 203 rotors, and its just over 19 kgs
Not using the fender anymore?
I still have it, but haven't been missing it. I've been riding with glasses lately so I'm not getting anything in my eyes, and so far, no mud spots on my camera.
Could you use any 8.5 x 2.5 shock for this?
Yep. Unless the shape of it hits the frame. The EXT works. The Fox DHX2 also works. You do need the offset bushings though.
Thank you. What does making it a mullet do to the speed limiter?
@@mtb_3930 The limiter uses the rpm on the rear wheel, so the speed limit is reduced when you go to a mullet. I converted for pretty steep descents--I haven't noticed that reduced limit at all.
the new orbea wild is claimed 42 lbs with a 750wh battery
I thought it was 46 lbs...but I could be wrong there. But ya, the Wild is amazing. If it was out at the same time I bought my Rise, I probably would have gone with the Wild (especially if it really comes in at 42 lbs).
While I admire your effort and everything, but so many mods and investion. Why did you not buy something Orbea Wild in the first place?
Because the Wild and all the other similar options didn't exist at the time.
Really sweet upgrades! What was the total approximate cost of doing this?
Thanks. I'll have to add it all up (cost of parts minus selling the old ones).
The two main expenses were the shock and the fork. I bought my Fox 36 for $1200 CDN (you can probably get them cheaper now). I sold my Fox 34 for $700. So that upgrade was $500. I really splurged on the shock. The EXT was $1400 CDN all in, and I sold my old Fox DPS shock for $400 CDN. So that upgrade was $1000. I could have gone with a Fox coil and saved $400-500 there, but I really like those EXT shocks (so ya, a splurge for sure). The offset bushings were $55 CDN. So the fork/shock upgrades came to a total of $1555.
For the wheels, I'll sell the rear one for about $600 and am using the front for a mullet build for my son. But let's say I just replaced the rear and sold the rear which I would have done if I wasn't building one up for my son. In that case, I bought the rim (Revel RW30) for $400 CDN, and the DT Swiss rear hub for $277 CDN. It cost me $225 CDN to get it built up with Sapim CX-Ray spokes. So that rear wheel came to $902. So after selling my old one, that's about $302 for that upgrade.
The 203mm front rotor came to $35 CDN.
The 155mm cranks were also a major splurge. They came to $530 CDN. But now that I'm on 155mm, I'd have a hard time going back to 165 or 170 (due to my height and injuries). That part of the rebuild is very specific to me though--totally unnecessary for most people. I sold my old 165mm ones for $40 (pretty beaten up). So that comes to $510.
The Bike Yoke 160mm dropper came to $470 CDN. I sold my old Fox Transfer 150mm for $225 CDN. So that upgrade came to $245.
So totals for the upgrades (in CDN)...
Fork: $500
Shock: $1055
Rear 27.5 wheel: $302
203mm rotor: $35
Cranks: $510
Dropper: $245
TOTAL: $2647 CDN (which is about $1987 USD)
The parts I replaced had two seasons of riding on them, so those upgrades are for geo/function of the enduro project, but also a refresher too.
If I did it with more of an eye on budget, I would have gone with the Fox shock and I wouldn't have replaced the cranks. In that case, the cost would look more like (in CDN)....
Fork: $500
Shock: $605
Rear 27.5 wheel: $302
203mm rotor: $35
Dropper: $245
TOTAL: $1687 CDN (which is about $1266 USD)
@@IDoBlues Thanks for the detailed breakdown!
Follow up question: I am 230lbs, I ride mainly Fromme and Seymour and never for longer than about 2hrs on a Ibis Ripmo v2. I am considering an eMTB so I can get more laps in. Would you recommend an Orbea Rise + simmilar uprades you just did? Or if you had carte blanche, is there a new stock option that is already suitable? It seems like you have made what brands should be offering but don't yet.
64 seems to be a goldilocks head angle for the riding in this part of the world.
Ya, I'm settled on 63-64.
The cost is for me the limit and the reason why I choose a « heavy E.bike »… Without this problem, I did like you…
the bikeyoke divine can be shimmed down btw...
if u want an enduro, get an enduro, the rise is perfect like it is
I already had the Rise but I started feeling under-gunned on the trails I was riding. It was cheaper to beef it up then sell it and buy a new one, plus this is lighter than any other out there. I liked the original Rise, but I love it even more now that I've made those changes.
easy easy.... there is nothing enduro.... geo is more like a bit outdated trail bike.... (or 10y old enduro)
how about stiffness of rear triangle? everyone says is pretty flexy ....
and other full power ebikes are more like 22.5-23kg (alu, yes, 24-26kg)
Eh? What’s old skool about any of that build? Seriously - what trail bike has/had a 64-degree HA?
The reach shortened, but to the right size for the owner - and The Same As His Dreadnought.
Genuinely - what is antiquated here?
I'm not even sure enduro was a thing 10 years ago. And I don't know many trail bikes with a 64 HTA. But a label is a label. Enduro, down-country, trail. I like the numbers. And for the trails I ride, a 64 HTA feels better than a 66. And 160 travel feels better than 140. I'm pretty light, so I don't notice a flexy rear triangle.
@@eightlivesdownmtb ok ok, after changes is quite good ! :) (i was commenting stock Rise geometry)
how about stiffness/flexy rear triangle? can you feel it ?
@@razorree I don't notice the flex on the rear triangle, but I'm only 135/140 lbs so take my experience with a grain of salt.
I have this bike and yeah it’s definitely a “ Trail” bike , I wish it was a bit slacker because when you’re going downhill it feels like I’m gonna go otb , it’s not a good feeling to be honest, I miss my Orbea Wild 😢
I agree. After the mods though, this bike becomes much more capable on the steeps. I can't recommend it enough if you are pushing it past being a trail bike.
bro simply you have bought the wrong ebike ;)
Way more Enduro options available now....but not as light weight as this build. I love it.