🧙 House Strong: The Lost Starks of the Riverlands | Fire and Blood theory
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- A question you must've been asking yourself since the release of Fire and Blood, who are House Strong and why does George R.R. Martin care so much about them? Join me on a journey in the deep, secret past of Westeros and the famous and infamous members of House Strong. Lucamore the Lusty, Harwin "Breakbones" Strong, Lord Lyonel, Larys the Clubfoot, Alys Rivers, Jace Velaryon, Ser Osmund, and more. And the odd, subtle connections between the Starks of Winterfell and the Strongs of Harrenhal. The seeds of Strong.
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Amazing video, Matt! Truly enjoyed all of it. The last statement is particularly resounding--yes, House Strong has sown its seeds, and the roots are spreading.
I think it's natural to want to conclude that Dunk is a Strong descendent. I kinda hope this isn't confirmed, though, because I prefer the unknown aspect of his parentage. It's nice to at least have the interpretation one of the greatest heroes in Westeros wasn't special because of lineage.
That is the one downside, it turns out George is still doing the magical blood thing and I agree, I want Dunk to be nobody. But.....I don't think that's what George wants. He wants the ancient bloodlines and connections with heroes of the Age of Heroes.
TBH given the timing, I think he may have been inspired by the Long Night spin off to show how their society worked.
@@JoeMagician oh totally! I think there's a way to have cake and eat it, too. grrm doesn't have to confirm the lineage in text, but with all these clues he can make it pretty clear. In any case, Dunk's nobody status is preserved at least in-world; i.e. I doubt he's going to have a "you're a wizard, Harry!" moment in the novellas. Most likely there will be a little a-ha line in the next F&B about some Strong baby hidden away and forgotten about in Flea Bottom. Good point about the spin-off potentially inspiring the focus on ancient bloodlines and connections.
True! And I think it's more important that he is raised to be among the common people than actually being one of them. It's a very hopeful message, and one you get with Egg too, that there's humanity in everyone if they get to know other people and those outside their classes. Even if he is descended of an ancient, powerful house who may have been kings once, he's still just Dunk of Flea Bottom. Like how Jon is a Targaryen with another name, but in his heart he'll always be Jon, son of Ned Stark. In the next fire and blood, that's definitely on my wish list. I also want to know where the Strong home is before Harrenhal, literally no mention of where it is. Meaning either George is saving it for something juicy or hasn't decided yet.
That happens to him all the time, like the TWOIAF came about because Elio and Linda asked him about the history. Jane Goldman must be in contact and asking him for the real story, and he got inspired and wrote it down in his own way :)
Makes the novellas fit into the song of Ice and Fire as well, with a Stark(ish) character and a Valyrian travelling together.
@@JoeMagician lub mccarthy kk mccbx bbblove oox.
Show Robert Baratheon, “Gods I was STRONG then.” Theory complete. ✔️
I guess it explains why him and Ned were such good friends if they share common blood.
@@saljpal3 ah yes like how siblings are all good friends irl
@@oppionatedindividual8256 I know from personal experience that isn't the case 😂. But having common ancestry could lead to individuals sharing similar traits that makes it easier for them to get along with each other. People can have sibling rivalry but extended family members they get along with.
@@oppionatedindividual8256 crap, me and my brother want to kill each other even in our 30s at times.. I must be doing something wrong.. 🤷
@@saljpal3 same.
It occurs to me that the history of Westeros, at least from Aegon forward, is the story of two bloodlines trying to come together while other forces keep them apart. Whenever the houses gifted with the magic of the First Men meets the blood of the Dragon Lords the realm manages to tear itself apart, whether that blood comes from Bracken or Blackwood, Strong or Stark. And interestingly it's always the Oldtown alliance of the Hightowers, the Citadel and the Church of the Seven which seem ready to pry the two bloodlines apart.
This aligns perfectly with Jon Snow being a Targaryen and a Stark
Not suprising with how insanely OP both peolpe that got the mixed blood, Bloodraven and Jon. Bloodraven is obvious, but Jon has performed many almost superhuman feats of both strength and ferocity. Imagine having 1 or 2 people with Bloodravens power in the Targaryens per generation, it would cause them to completely dominate westerosi politics.
if the theory that strongs are long lost starks is true and rhaenyra's children are actually strong shouldn't her first three boys be ULTRA POWERFUL what with the blood of dragon and blood of the first men finally coming together?
@@sblack4951 Well they're dragonriders despite only getting Valyrian genes from one side, so that says something. But they died young and never had an "awakening" event like other powerful psychics, so who knows how strong they might have been.
To further speculate, I view the larger conflict as the continuation of the war between the First Men and the Children of the Forest, with the Hightowers and the rest of the Oldtown institutions playing the leadership role. The First Men who took on the worship of the Old Gods joined the enemy, from the perspective of this conflict. The concern is that the bloodlines who can naturally connect to the Old Gods of the Weirwoods are also prone to manipulation by them. Dragon Lords who can be unduly influenced by dreams sent by the Children would be seen as a danger to the Hightowers and their allies so it makes sense they would work to prevent it.
"House Ghostrider" is perhaps the unexpectedly best laugh I've had about anything ASOIAF-related for some time.
It's even better if you imagine it as Nick Cage
I literally lol'd. Quite loudly 😂
@@JoeMagician
Lord Nick "Cage" of House Ghostrider
I love it
In fire and blood Credgan Stark calls the “Strong” Valyrian son of Rhaenyra a true friend and they bond, he even compared him to his brother
He sure does! It seems a bit on the nose once you start looking for it.
the pact of ice and fire😉 the seed is strong
I can’t wait for cregan in house of dragon season 2 I just really hope they get the casting right I’m sick of hearing the Henry cavil and Travis flimmel casting
@@jav744
Well, Jaecerys' own seed wasn't that "Strong" in the end, given he sired no children with Sara Snow
@@thalmoragent9344If the naked woman in Bran's vision was Sara Snow as many speculated, then you'd be wrong.
...After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy.
He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, _but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her_
Fun fact: Ser Robert Strong is named Ser Robert Kraft in german which translates to strength or force because there would have been confusion with House Stark otherwise
Indeed! I looked into it, and apparently the choice of Kraft was the translators choice. I thought for a while it may have been a joke about the owner of the New England Patriots....
RageUnicorn I don’t get translators translating names. In Denmark, we have Jon Sne, Stjerneborg (Storm’s end, or star castle), Kongs havn (Kings port, not landing), and many other stupid translations
Jon Schnee, Sturmkap and Königsmund in german
@@darthbricksempire3606 same in dutch, Greyjoy is Grimjoy for no reason
just do not translate names unless it is needed for a pun or otherwise importendt and even if it is, it probably would not work anyway . . . .
there is a german youtuber that makes harry potter content and looked at the translations of names in the different languages and apparenty, the norway translation apparently managed to invent fantasy words, that mean something nit childfriendly translated into swedish . . . she has a lot of fun with that shit . . . it never ends well
You know, looking at the cast in House of the Dragon, they do look like Starks. Harwin looks like what Ned's brother Brandon would look like. Larys looks like he could be related to Ned. It's actually pretty interesting.
It's the brow bone.
That’s what threw me! You’re right. I kept saying the casting was way off. The Hightower Targaryens are not attractive. Very horsey looking. The only good looker was Jon & we know why.
Wow... I already thought that John Arryn's letter to Ned Stark, "the seed is strong", was in depth but this just blows my mind.
That was referring to Baratheon phenotypes I thought
@@Callsign_Prophet it was but this only deepens the lore
He didn't say "the seed is house Strong"
The Witch Queen of Harrenhal can be killed by no man.
Varys: I am no man! *stabby stabby*
Hahaha! Oh my God!
Joffrey Blackfyre xD
Joffrey Blackfyre tyrion and varys kill the witch queen on stokeqorth fields
sup bro , & long live the black dragon
Robert: "It's not too late, Ned. I have a son. You have a daughter. Let's unite our houses, Ned!"
His Strong genes: "Hahahahaha joke's on you..."
Haha jokes on him Sansa wasn't marrying Gendry anyways
@@notaseal7864 Sansa also isn't the only option here, is she? And neither is Gendry, by the way. #JonSatin
@@tarvoc746 this comment made me think, took me on a journey, then got me at the end lol -classic Misdirect, and deftly done. Cheers
Sadly Robert never had a legit son..
@@notaseal7864 Sansa likely has strong blood in her too after all her mother is from the Riverlands
Stark in Swedish also directly translates into Strong as well.
Säden är Stark
@@arawn1061 looool
Isn't swedish a bastard of german haha
Råbert stark
@@arawn1061
What's that mean?
I find it interesting that house strong an offshoot of house stark mixed with Targaryen created 3 black haired sons with ryanera and harwin and also again with Jon snow. Nobody is talking about that
In the books the velayron princes have brown hair & hair eyes. Jon has dark brown hair and dark grey eyes. So that's only a correlation in the show.
What if this is how House Stark had been playing the Game of Thrones? By placing one of their own in the south to start their own family and slowly but surely take everything. Notice how similar Strong features are to 'the wolfsblood'? A thirst for battle, strong sexual desire, decisions dictated by impulses, rashness, strength in battle etc. They are basically one and the same.
Baratheons all have Strong heritage, which is Stark heritage. This way, it is a Stark leading the Stormlands, even if they don't know they are Starks. The Strong's have been repeatedly in control of King's Landing. The Strongs once conquered the Riverlands, the *only neighbouring region connected by land to House Stark's domain* . There are Strong in the Golden Company, giving the Starks access to the strongest mercenary company in Essos. Not to mention the Company of the Rose, which is almost entirely made of Northmen who refused to bend the knee. In such a way, House Stark has kept an eye on and influenced the events of the Seven Kingdoms without anyone knowing, *a wolf in sheep's clothing, so to speak.*
Zakaria Ali I like this theory. Most starks army like Ned they are players of the game more like manderly in ADWD and Roose Bolton just with more honor:
"A thirst for battle, strong sexual desire, decisions dictated by impulses, rashness, strength in battle etc."
The modern Starks are not like that, same the ones with the wolf's blood.
Not Ned, not Benjen, not Robb, Bran, Sansa, not Arya fits only parts.
Rickon may be, one day. Brandon, Ned's brother was. Lyanna? Maybe
This is not how this works. Especially with not even the Stark's themselves knowing about it and things like the Dance, BF rebellions, the Karstarks or the Greystarks showing us what blood (ties) far more recent are actually worth. Although the tendency for First Men houses to stock together (like e.g Blackwoods and Royces with Rob cannot be denied, but I highly doubt this effects members of the Golden Company, since their "melting pot" was far more recent and ignored the lines between Andals & First Men.
While I doubt that the strings being so powerful would actually help the starks, but what if and this may make a lot of sense if your assessment of the wolf blood is correct, that with the blood of the strings in house Baratheon that Robert may have inherited it
I need someone to make a northern superpower fanfic on this now!
here after seeing the beautiful harwin strong
I hope the House of the Dragon show does the Strongs justice. I think they are starting to hint that Larys is a greenseer or at least a skinchanger (a lot of shots of rats crawling around)
Yassss. Love this theory. N i saw it on Joe Magician first. After dat, the other famous reviewers of the show caught on.
I think they all watch this channel too as reference. 👏🤓
Wonderful - us book lovers do so appreciate these new ideas and theories from the book canon - especially with the new season of the show nearly upon us it's like an antidote to all the trite rubbish around at the moment - thank you 💜
When George is listing First Men houses and the interviewer says "Seaworth" and George is like "Umm" I cracked up laughing.
5:50 "Seaworth" a pure example of someone who isn't listening.
I mean, it’s absolutely descriptive, as he’d just said so she was totally listening - she just betrayed having not read the second book. It made me wince, and I do feel bad for her because the gaff will live on in the fandom one way or another.
Terribly ill-fit person for the job, imagine people who actually know the matter doing interviews...
In deep geek reading was a nice touch
Yo Yo was trying to remember who it’s was thank you 😂
As for the theory of Brienne being a descendant of Dunk, it would imply Dunk hooked up with one of Egg's sisters who was betrothed or married to the Lord of Evenfall, a lord of House Taarth.
I dunno, been hearing more about House Taarth lately, and the Sapphire Isle sounds pretty cool.
Would be a shame if the main bloodline of their House is actually extinct, and Brienne is of a line of Bastards. Not to mention, who's to say, maybe she's connected to Dunk not by his make line, but of a daughter Dunk had that married to a Lord of Evenfall
That makes more sense to me. Dunk had a bastard in Tarth, the boy or girl rose in prominence and achieved better marriages for his children, and Brienne is connected to him by her mother or one of her grandparents.
Just FYI I lost it when I read Sara Snow since my irl name is Sara Friesen (yes freezin) and I'm also a woods witch
Twisted
The woman suggesting seaworth cracks me up.
For a split second for me too, then I'm deeply annoyed..wtaf is she there then??
I love how you got my boy Robert from In Deep Geek in this video..
That’s funny how you mentioned Clubfoot.. he and a knight from that house were the only to be executed by the MAN Lord Cregan Stark. Who in my opinion and besides the Dragon Knight is the best ! Most honorable, loyal.. sword play?? Forget about it! Even the Dragon Knight said he never faced a better swordsman... anyway... I know I went way off there. Thanks for doing this video because like you said... people just don’t know about this House and it’s members and what a role they have and most likely will play in the upcoming stories.
The seed is Strong :)
Strong, Duncan Strong
Strong = Stark in Swedish 🤗
About naming of "things" in GRRM books..most of us knows that the author likes to play with the words he puts in his books. And that the words often carry a special meaning..and for this reason the translated versions have to work in the same way as the author intended in English. Otherwise this story wouldn't work, i other languages.. some examples that's pops out and makes me smile are..
• Lucamore..
- Luca = light &/or sacred wood
- More - additional &/or further, better
Additional research..if you guys have any plans on doing a video about Winterfell, maybe this could come in handy. .
Winterfell, eng.
• winter (cold season) + fell (cut down, to fall..a hill or area..evil or cruel ..skin/hide) ..as you already know, having English as your first language. ( or is it? 😉 ..can't take thing for granted..)
Vinterhed, Swedish
• Vinter = Winter
• Hed = downland or heath
Talvivaara, Finnish
• Talvi - winter
• Vaara - danger, risk, threat, warning
Winterfell, German
• winter coat ..as in fur coat
What makes me wonder is the Finnish choice of "Vaara" or "Vaarallinen"..it's a strong word also meaning "Unsafe!"
Oki, end of word play..
Great video Matt, collabs are always nice, especially when the result is as good as this.
Taker care. Hugs & sunshine☀️ N
@@sunshinesilverarrow5292 More (or Mór) means big in Irish and Scots Gaelic.
I've always thought Winterfell can have different meanings even in English: a fell is like a marshy, boggy area in the cold North (winter); is it the place where the White Walkers were defeated during the Long Night (fell in this instance meaning defeated); or is it where Winter (WW) "fell upon" the Stark stronghold?
@@ranica47 Exactly, what does it mean!?! 😉 And good point of yours.
And I love the Scott and Irish "lesson"..when ever I hear it, I always think it sounds so much like old Swedish.. "Sla'inte!" or as they say in the country I live in "Skål!"
Hey Great COLAB AYE!! Cherz Too Both U GREAT LITER'ARTI💷💃😎
Loved how you got Robert to read.
Great vídeo. It leads me to think that "The seed is strong" goes both ways. Back to the Baratheons having Strong blood and to Jon Snow having Stark Blood
Stark means strong in danish Norwegian swedish and old english also! For example I do strong man competitions in sweden called “starkeviking”
I think we can rename those "DuncaStrongs"
I've always felt Harrenhal was important, perhaps the most important castle of Westeros. As such, any of the houses which held the seat historically are likely filled with hidden meaning.
Well it's infamous alright.. Every house that was granted Harrenhal died out
@@bumpotato1922 Some lasted longer than others. In particular the Lothstons and Whents (itself a junior branch of Lothston) did fairly well. My best guess is that their signature red hair is a clue they descend from Harren the Red, and so have the blood of house Hoare. Kind of makes you wonder why Littlefinger was both obsessed with Cat and Sansa's red hair while himself coveting Harrenhal.
@@pallen2645
Huh, that's interesting
The Blood of House Hoare allows for a family to hold the seat of Harrenhall longer than the average house, sounds interesting.
Well, Winterfell is the most important, really.
@@Augusto_Pinochet Winterfell was the status quo. It is what is has been for thousands of years. It's a part of the system that had kept things the same as how they had been. But Harrenhal is new, it's a seat of change, and for whatever reason it's construction marks the date when everything changed.
If Osmond Strong build the walls at Kings Landing, is it possible he built certain passageways (similar to how Tyrion knew about the secret passageways) that makes it look like Winterfell, or that the people from Winterfell would recognize by a certain building pattern (how the passages are laid out, etc.)? Syrio Forell was very clear to tell Arya which turns to make at one point - perhaps there is a pattern.
Might explain how Larys was able to sneak around too
@@samlasalle3853 Larys is a warg, watch the early episodes, they pay an odd amount of attention to rats. Mysaria has a web of spies but they haven't revealed how Larys gets his information yet. It's not a stretch that a first man is able to warg, the wildlings had plenty
One of the best house lore videos I've seen
Joe / Matt , absolutely fantastic breakdown of a mysterious and seemingly quite important House to the narrative and its history. No idea why i didn't get this notification when it came out (TH-cam's fault not your own) but what a treat when I came across it doing the usual browse of your channel & content. There have been brief Strong mentions in the ASoIaF series but clearly a massive step up in terms of frequency , influence and importance in F & B which I expect to continue into the next installment. From their evolution from a supplementary house to the crown and other powerful houses into having their own climbing ambitions. Along with their influence on past events, connections to powerful people in history , potential Stark association , possible notable descendants and what seems to be likely infiltration of some of the most powerful bloodlines on the continent. Not only the parallels to the ancient past but to those in the current narrative as well are quite abound.
With GRRM it seems pretty much any mysterious First Men House not living in the North will have a fair degree of influence on the current ASoIaF narrative and its histories from the Blackwoods , Daynes or as presented here , the Strongs. To me the Strongs are becoming the Chekov's gun , similar to how GRRM mentioned about Nymeria and her wolfpack , in that you don't put it out there not to use it ; to me it seems the huge uptick in mentions of House Strong (in F & B which i expect the trend to continue in part two) all the connections that result from them and so many members of their House in positions of influence in the past through to almost the current Planetos/Westerosi timeline ; has to be an indication that more concrete evidence may emerge from GRRM of the big part the Strong's played in the narrative’s past and possibly more recently as well. Alys Rivers in particular was a fascinating piece of F & B , telepathic skull exploding and strangulation is certainly an attention getter coupled with her other possible general abilities, influence on Aemond , carrying his illegitimate child and seemingly defacto Lady of Harrenhal at one point. I look forward to seeing where her arc goes in the next F & B installment. Ntm Qyburn giving the undead science wight formerly The Mountain the name Strong (Robert Strong) must have something to do with what he discovered at Harrenhal during his time there.
Great vid , interesting insights and I totally agree House Strong is a name on the rise with GRRM which i expect to be expanded upon in subsequent novels from him.
So clever! Love this!! I've tried to align all of the current characters with the past to see what the future holds. But I get lost because many of them could parallel two or three others.
I recognize that voice! No one has a more calming voice than Robert from In Deep Geek!
I always wo dered why G. R. R. Martin wouldn't named the House Stark as "House Strong" and "wasted" that name with a minor house of Westeros until I read "Fire and Blood"
Watching again so I can actually pay attention. 😘 Thanks Joe! I always enjoy the inclusion of a good live chat. Well done, Magic J!
Oh Matt, what a great video and Robert quoted the passages so beautifully 😍 can't wait for your next live stream collabs!
Coming back to this video after HotD is fascinating. Condal is connecting the Old magic with the fate of the Targs on screen. Makes you wonder if the outrage at Daemons vision in S2E8 of HotD is unwarranted. FB clearly points to this deeper Old magic connection to the Dance.
Btw your analysis is awesome. You were on all this 5 years ago. Impressive stuff!!
15:18 That's a mirror of Florys the Fox, one of the daughters of Garth. x'D She also kept 3 husbands, each ignorant of the other. lel
Nice catch!
Robert saying Lady Dustin's bloody sword speech 😲 I blushed 😆
Actually Although I blushed I'd love to give that reading a go 😄
It's the small things I enjoy when making these videos, and getting stoic, polite Robert to read a semi-sex scene is one of them.
@@JoeMagician good job👍 🤣
🤣
I hope we get to see Cregan Stark in the show. That dude was a badass
I mean... not only Cregan. I want to see Bloody Ben and the Tully brothers.
The seeds is indeed strong with this video my friend !
This makes a lot of Sense because Orys Baratheon didn't seem to be exactly a Strong, so I wonder if the current Baratheon genes were from the Dundarron's or something else, the Strong blood is a good explanation but Rogar Baratheon had also very Baratheon characteristics even tho he was previous to Lucamore's bastards. So it may be a mix of both Dundarron and Strong blood what they make today Baratheon characteristics.
There's no inditcation to any of this %he, house Durrandon was a very martial house filled with conquerors. I would assume the last king was a strong man himself no? We can't assume every strong character is from house strong lineage. Besides breakbones how many Strongs members were actually strong? I also don't recall GRRM going into details about Orys physique, he was of curse known as a fierce warrior with great marital prowess. Which is evident in other Baratheons
@@joeycognition3260
I imagine Aerion Targaryen slept with a woman with Blood of the First Men, so whoever that may be, Strong or not, it would explain the features.
I loved this video it was like I learnt something from the books that isn't touched on in the show without needing to actually read a book. That makes me very happy
I gotchu
An excellent theory and very well researched. There is also something i might add. During the conquest of the Vale there was a "witch" of House Upcliff, a First Men House of the Vale, who supported Robar Royce against the Andals. This member of House Upcliff died in the battle, but the Upcliffs did just what you described with the other First Men houses - they stayed independent until one of their brides married into House Arryn and brought Witch Isle into the dominion of the Vale.
Wow, you’ve made a believer out of me! Always feel silly for missing so much from my initial reading/listening of these books...
Indeep Geek should read for the audiobooks, if Winds and a Dream of Spring ever comes out
Oh no, that means he’ll have to read the sex scenes too. lol
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Robert reading "cock" made my whole day ☺️
Because of your videos House Strong might be my new favorite house in Westeros 😉
I'd say Queen Alyssane could just as likely have been talking about the Blackwoods or the Massey's as the Strong's. For all that there's been a lot on the Strongs more recently the Blackwoods have a much bigger part in the story as well as a stronger connection to the Starks. FWIW. Cheers! S.
Good thoughts! I just figured the Strongs because of the friendship with Lucamore. He doesn't seem great with secrets and the rest of their family seems to bend that way, especially Alys. A return to the Old Ways.
Been seeing a lot of your content in my feed old and new lately man, Enjoyed every video I have watched so far homie.
Great job, kisses. hugs. respect brotha.
This tinfoil tastes like steak. I'll have another helping in the Disputed Lands. Thanks!
Thank you. Really well done. Thoroughly enjoyed watching this: so logically and clearly explained, my eyes widened to the larger picture.
Greyarea sent me here.
charmaine684 #sweetsummerchild
AGOT is actually ck2 game and player just liked their name, So they were granted important position.
It all makes sense now, it's always the ck2 players
@@JoeMagician Aerys the mad was actually the result of Player cheesing his way into Alchemist guild by intentionally get captured by Cruel Darklyn.
@@Tleanantz Explains all the incest to be honest.
Why you gotta call me out like tgat
In Deep Geek has such a great voice for GRRM readings. This is still well thought out material. I would elect IDG for the reading of the next novel.
The Baratheons come from the lines of Durran Godsgrief and "the Strong Right hand" of Aegon, Orys. They don't need any help from house Strong to be Strong.
Great Video though. I can't believe I've never seen this channel before.
We don't know Orys mother remember the Targaryens were on Dragonstone for awhile, whos to say Aegon's dad didn't bed a Strong Woman.
If Jacaerys had been King as he was the heir to the true Queen Rhaenyra we could have had a Half Strong/Half Targaryen King :(
He would be his own dynasty if found out
Really fascinating theory however I'd contend with the idea that the Baratheon's have the 'Strong' gene in them, as it were, as Rogar Baratheon (along with Orys, but I'm thinking especially of Rogar) was shown to be a very battle-loving guy, and quite sex-driven as well. This is made all the more problematic when the little accounts we get of Durrandons (WOIAF was very weak on the Stormlands front sadly) show traits that would be familiar to Robert Baratheon's friends. I think the Baratheon's behaving like that is just, well, Baratheon/Durrandon temperament.
This theory is really interesting though because now it provides at least some form of avenue for understanding Larys' motives. Larys has always been an enigma; definitely anti-Rhanyra, yet not clearly on the greens side either (he did, after all, assassinate Aegon II). He was also completely willing to die when he could have taken the black to avoid death, so pure personal power seems unlikely. The connection with the Old Gods, the Weirwoods, and Alys Rivers gives room for people who know much more than me to dive into his behaviour and explain it. Thank you so much for it, it's a great video!
Personally I think the parallels between Robert and Lucamore are fairly definitive in terms of we are supposed to see them as linked characters, and we know for sure the Strongs ended up in Storm's End. But no reason it couldn't be a little bit of both. The sharp increase in size and height and change in temperment in interesting to me as well. The old Baratheons were pretty grim and angry, after Lucamore's children show up there's a lot more......Laughing Storm and Robert types.
Larys is a character I'd love to see a full analysis on, I found him really interesting but didn't fit in with the narrow angle of this video so a lot of what I wrote about him hit the cutting room floor. I agree with your read, does not seem to be in favor of either side and he rather....meekly accepted Cregan's justice when we know he can be impossible to find when he wants to. It's like he submitted personally to the Lord of Winterfell in particular.
Finally someone notices the fact stark means strong in german.
This is very good. I don’t know how I missed hearing this one but I’m glad it came up as a suggestion.
Ah, I'm very late to this discussion, but since Riverlanders don't marry siblings but only cousins beside Blackwoods and Brackens GRRM badly needed a third - and very magical First-Men Riverland-House with Dragon-links, he could explain the magical strength of Daenerys Bloodline. Untill it is established, it can't be explained why Egg failed at hatching his egg, while his granddaughter succeeded being of even thinner dragon-blood. (Though both of Betha Blackwoods grandmothers might be Bloodraven's sisters. Riverlanders don't marry siblings, only cousins, so one of them needed to marry somebody... really Strong.) - That Daenerys' blood also ran Strong would be very welcome.
it could also be because he was a boy. so far only when certain females are around do dragon eggs hatch
this was a special video, loved it
the drum beat in the background really brang the hype
makes me think..Stannis, more Baratheon than Strong? maybe not. since people think Stannis seems more at home in the North & even gets described as Stark-like in the way of the older Kings of Winter would have been
Wow, this stuff is LEGIT!!! Great video. Keep them coming.
After fathering all these people but ultimately meeting deadly or ignoble ends, their words are coming out more like
"Don't care, had sex", than anything else.
Craker of a video Matt! Beautifully put together
great video, I've been wondering about this a lot since House of the Dragon dropped. The bigger question for me is what it implies for Rhaenyra and Harwin's possible relationship. Could Rhaenyra be trying to fulfill the prophecy of ice and fire by hooking up with House Strong? Was Harwin's death to a fire at Harrenhal really an accident? or as i suspect, an intentional sacrifice? As we've seen with Visery's, prophecy makes the otherwise kind Targaryen's do abominable things and Jacaerys has a lot of the hallmarks of the prince that was promised prophecy.
Top shelf lore & theory.
Another!
You talking about Alys being a wet nurse that's also feeding the kids magic, reminds me of old Nan and her stories and Winterfell 🥰
Hearing In Deep Geek was such a pleasant surprise! Great vid
Joe as great as ever
I wonder what happened to Alys son or daughter and if she or he when on to become a Blackwood, Went, or part of House Stark again.
He was trueborn son of Aemond for Alys but we have no information about them, interesting we have Saera, Aemond and Aerion's lineages are still alive along with remaining Targaryens and Blackfyres
@@allyriastark3508 I want to know what happened to little Maegor as well, interesting
@@vanessaamesty6739 fax
House Ghost Rider. good one! Also, the narration by Robert was an awesome touch. Up Thumbed
Great deep dive! Loved the ending too!
This is an excellent deep dive on this connection!
Starks and targaryen are linked together by opposite attraction
"The seed is Strong" - Arryn, Jon
I think my favourite part of fire and blood was the fact the last Strong standing requested his club foot be taken off and it was later stolen. In the current story, that foot could easily appear much like the dragon egg. Though I doubt it being a gift.
Hoster Blackwood (ADwD) has a club foot.
Enjoyable video, but the Starks have the long as their most distinctive feature (I gather) i remember Craster (the wildling) guessing who is Jon Snow because of his look.
I love this channel. I don’t want it to be one of those channels that’s makes to many videos nobody cares about but I really wish he made more videos and look forward to the next one
Great video !! House Strong is one of greatest forgetten houses. A feast for crows is one of my favorites of the series
Amazing analysis! Thanks for sharing
Growing Strong 💪
Truly enjoying your videos, Matt! Incredible work. Thank you so much.
My pleasure!
Woot!!! Get Hyped. George Planned it All along!!
Super interesting. Thanks for posting
Learned a lot about the Indus Valley civilisation and even the smallest name drop makes me happy
I wonder if the split lineage of Starks and Strongs and the Trident symbolism are connected. If so, is there a third lineage?
Great question! If we follow the rivers, maybe there's a branch in the South of the Riverlands.
@@JoeMagician I've looked up the ethimology of the names Duran / Durand, and they come from the Latin name Durandus, meaning strong and enduring.
@@millibillionth the three rivers of the trident (green fork, blue fork and red fork) spring forth in the North, the Riverlands and Westerlands respectively. A third line could thus be found perhaps in the Westerlands, which actually has quite a few notable Firstman houses: the Crakehalls (who are often strong and tall, natural warriors. They are also described as lusty: " My third wife was a Crakehall, all of the Crakehall women are sluts.[20]
-Walder Frey to Catelyn Stark"), the Farmans (less likely), the Westerlings (probably not either), the Baneforts (ruled as the Hooded Kings and were said to engage in magic, especially necromancy! Also, Banefort as in Bane and Fort, fort in French is strong. Bane doesn't really fit in though: except if they are the bane of the forts, the bane of the strongs. A rival of the Westerlander line then?) and lastly there'd be house Moreland (their sigil is green and brown, all very nature-like. They were founded by Pate the Plowman. That plays well with the fertility thing as well as being very ancient).
@@bierwolf8360 Interesting information! It would make sense to find another ancient "strong" lineage in the westerlands.
That could explain man like the Hound and the Mountain being from the Westerlands.... they look very "Strong"
I watched the whole video but I felt like Greekgodx was reading me every quote.
great video....really great job of bringing together all the hints about the importance of the strongs...i've often wondered if they served some structural purpose with the isle of faces as the starks do in the north winterfell/the wall (her name also resonated with the witch king of angmar)
Another great video. I look forward to the upcoming discussion. BTW, what is the origin of your opening music? It always reminds me of “In the Hall of the Mountain King.”
Thank you Lily! It'll be a great discussion for sure. The full song can be heard here. freemusicarchive.org/music/Tagirijus/Cinematic_2017/manuel_senfft_-_hidden_castle
I liked it because it reminded of something from Fantasia. If I ever get a longer intro animation I may use more of it.
I’m pretty sure the rumors that the black princes are actually Strongs is wrong. And they are indeed Christian Cole’s children. Making it so that he despises his own children believing in the rumors. Pretty awesome twist.
The best evidence Larys is a greenseer is that he's already been shown to be one. It's in plain sight and everyone seems to have missed it. When he confronts Allicent in the garden It's shown that he somehow witnessed the conversation Rhaenera and Allicent had in front of it. This is why he mentions the moon tea to her. Without knowing Rhaenera promised Allicent her virtue was intact mentioning the moon tea would be no guarantee of anything. It would be a complete shot in the dark and make no sense for him to mention at all. There is your proof right there. He witnessed the convo yet Rhaenera and Allicent were the only people present. Case closed. This scene will yeild more context down the road once Larys is fully revealed and upon rewatching it it will be so obvious to everyone. Go ahead and add this to the evidence. I need no credit.
Ask yourself what his end game was in mentioning the moon tea had he NOT known that Rhaenera promised Allicent her virtue was intact? Was he just hoping Allicent would confront Rhaenera like she already did? And if that's the case how would Larys know Rhaenera couldn't talk her way out of it and remain on good terms w Allicent? He didn't. Bc he's not the guy who makes moves unless he's sure of the outcome. And he can only be sure the outcome of mentioning the moon tea would be Allicent realizing her best friend lied to her if he KNEW Rhaenera already lied to her and Allicent bought it.
I mean, I made two videos about that already. I made up the theory you're referencing.
@@JoeMagician this is literally the 2nd video of yours I've ever viewed. Caught my attention bc the title lined up w what I've noticed about Larys so far myself. Didn't know u already noticed Larys knows things he shouldn't be able to know. I'll check out your previous vids on the topic. Nice back catalog of what look like we'll thought out & interesting ideas. Def got a new sub today. Keep up the good work 👍
@5:52. Always loved GRRM's reaction here. Like "Lady...be quiet...Seaworth...Davos is not a first man. In fact that name came from Stannis when he knighted him. .." Seaworth" Slap!!
I don’t care if Jace, Luke and joffrey are bastards, I just wish one of them survived to further the strong line.
I mean these brothers are well mannered.
What an irony considering how hot head they mother was but she had well mannered kids and Alicent was fairly cool and calm but but her kids were opposite of her
What I heard during the Brienne chapter reading...
"Guests could throw a LION out the window and catch a trout." 🤣
I had to pause and actually read that it said "line".
This is superb. Thank you for your insights
So what's the relationship among houses Strong, Lothston and Whent? Don't forget Catelyn's mother was a Whent of Harrenhal...
Doesn't seem to be any. Lothson and Whent came long after the Strongs had died out. Not unless we get new inform in Fire and Blood 2 about the fate of Alys Rivers and her child with Aemond One Eye.
An excellent video! Kudos!
I love kudos tbh, those were great snacks
The words of house Strong: We Fight and We Fuck
A LOT
Good choice having the reading from the in deep geek channel
👏👏👏 Thoroughly excellent video!