@@nuclearjanitors I liked the show and accepted everything they did even if it didn't make sense sometimes....then i stumbled into Preston Jacobs videos. Now I'm only about the books. Show predictions doesn't intrest me anymore.
My two favourite chapters. Prologue, of Agot, and the effective epilogue Dany chapter, where it cuts to an extrospective view, of "for the frst time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the sound of dragons. Starts with magic. Gives us a whole 900 page novel with next to no magic. Ends with magic
The prologue of book 1 was what made me hostage to the books, but what made it rough was the latter book chapters of Dany. She really made it a struggle at times. I believe this is the main reason George can’t seem to finish it. She’s just not all that interesting.
@@lissettelopez8331 Without the prologue, the entire first book would have failed. Even with jaime pushing Bran, the first 200 pages are quite dry. The idea of this overarching magical threat is what keeps us there.
@@lissettelopez8331I'm no Dany fan and I find it cringe the way people worship her blinding their eyes to all the crazy stuff she does. However I would never in a million years call her _uninteresting_ I think Dany, Bran and Euron are the most interesting people in the books. Out of curiosity, what exactly about her you find so uninteresting?
@@gerardjagroothe Dance chapters are very similar, learning to rule, forbidden romance, it’s very similar to Tyrions chapters in book 2, without any of the parts that made Tyrions chapters so good
He is a man...Ser Waymar, for all his pomp and arrogance, really mans thr fuck up when its time. He knows what he is fighting. He's scared. But does it anyways, he faces what he certainly knows is his death like a man. RIP.
Wait,Waymar had black steel??? No wonder the Walkers eyed his sword,expecting possibly Longclaw or ICE!Oh dang,just noticed the BLACK STEEL reference by Craster...Wow!
@@nuclearjanitors I don't know,but in early Tyrion chapter,he is reading in a book he borrowed from WF library about how dragon bone is BLACK and about it's strength and how sharp,and also about obsidian...in first book.
@@conniesuper9892 i remember... I was wondering if perhaps that was the name of a Valyrian sword or if there had been a known Valyrian sword that the others were looking for in specific. I do believe they have some sort of greensight they have to, so it is possible that they could see particular swords and the people who wielded them
@@conniesuper9892 Seven hells, dragonbone was black. I was wondering about black ice armor being obsidian known to have anti Others properties. I thought of it as sort of woven scale armor meant to terrify and discourage Others touch, with not much protective properties because it's so brittle. But we don't know how dragonbone works, I believe? May it block blades of ice like Valyrian steel? Might Jon have been armored in black reskin of dragonplate armor from Skyrim? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Love this! But MAYBE when they cut Waymar they expected his blood to SMOKE, and when it didn’t they knew they had the wrong man. Jon’s mortal wounds smoked in his last chapter. Fire to combat the ice.
Definitely intentional on GRRMs part. George likes to focus on small insignificant details to act as red herrings to mislead readers but Jon's blood smoking in the snow is an unusual event. Fire and Ice is quite literally the title of the books and occurs nowhere else in the series for another human (except perhaps Beric, though I may be misremembering that), only for wounded dragons. Unless we see another character bleed smoke on ice we must treat this detail as significant.
Was Benjen hated as a "little Lordling" like Jon was when he went to the watch? Did Benjen have a "Chet",waiting to rat him out to Craster,so the watch could keep their hands clean? Was Waymar sent out by Jeor(raven on his shoulder) and then Benjen sent out after Waymar,and Craster took Benjen AS A SACRIFICE,and bled him,like Jons vision of Benjen bleeding in the Snow.
What a great video. I like what Preston Jacobs or The Order of the Green Hand are doing but sometimes their videos are as exciting as a scientific paper. I'm a big fan of the more narrative route you took.
Excellent, Joe! I love this chapter - i love that it stands alone as a micro-novella that sucks us right into the greater ASOIAF, setting a tone and timbre for the enormity of what the human world is facing, but that it ALSO stands alone, upon re-read, as this puzzle to be unravelled, giving clues to the deep underlying genetic and thematic components of the story, the relationships between the Starks and the Others, the Last Hero and the Battle for the Dawn. just brilliant.
Excellent theory, Mr Woodhouses voice was as clear and crisp as summer snow. The points you made to Others action and strategy, show their intelligence and motivations. Now from some crackpottery, but it has merit so bare with me. Bejen Stark went looking for Waymar ,and no doubt enquired at Crasters. Bejen could be the only Stark Craster has met ,so his template for a Stark. I think Bejen dies near Crasters and wargs into a dog. Bejen leaves the wall with 6 men all clad in black fur. At Crasters a dog and 6 pups in black fur. Bejen Stark the wolf pup , then in your video Waymar is compared to a pup. Joer Mormont says if Ben was alive he would come to us. When Joer arrives at Crasters the dog comes to him. Come Bejen be the second act ?
“A villain is a hero of the other side” I’ve always maintained the thought that the White Walkers are not just the Big Bad, they’re probably misunderstood. However after you said they would see the Last Hero as their Great Other, I can’t help but feel extra empathetic towards this completely fictional race of creatures. Ruined my whole evening. 😂
@@JoeMagician but the others were created by the children and may be trapped in a perpetual hell, one that even death cant save them from. (i guess one could argue that the treaty of versailles post WW1 helped create the nazis, but this book isnt about ww2 or nazis). to me, the others are slaves who have been stuck in a frozen wasteland for millennia. i sometimes wonder if they welcome death and an end to this captivity.
I think the Others are among the native sentient beings in North Westeros. Ice Elves like. Then when the Children of the Forest went further North to get away from the Humans who invaded the continent, the Others went to war against the intruding Children of The Forest. . The Children of the Forest couldnt fight on two fronts, so they made peace with Humans, made BS claims about the Others being BADDIES, so that Humans will fight against the Others. The Others were driven further North. And even with an obvious border Wall, the stinkin Humans still insist on tresspassing the country of The Others. What People wouldnt want REVENGE against Humanity afterwards? They were minding their own business on THEIR NATIVE LAND when suddenly their territories were invaded.
Thanks! I loved this explanation, I have dyslexia and the way the books are written make them impossible for me to read. I tried the books on Audible but I don't like the voice of the reader your videos are a lifesaver
I was confused at first because I was thinking what about Benjen? Why was he not accosted as a Stark, and then I was remembering how Starks are historically known to take the black. They are one of the few houses that take the Night's Watch seriously. How come past Stark crows haven't been accosted? But then I figured they are probably looking specifically for Jon, the Prince that was promised. The show still confuses things though, because the Others have seen Jon now for sure, and have let him get away twice. What's that about?
I always thought there were 12 additional others (three, then four and five). 3+4+5=12. A dozen slashes to his cloak, one from each of the additional Others.
I love the what if idea of the others finding Jaime, armed with two hands and a sword of valaryian steel. The long night would have been infinitely shorter.
Jon was promised ( The price that was promised ) to them.. They want him for they're leader, The Great Other or to carry the mantle of The Night King. Being from the side of the living He's the Last Hero, Joe you hit the nail of the head! Ultimately he will have to make the sacrifice he was destined to make to save us all.. -So.. Apparently, I've finally found all the intelligent ASOIAF readers / fans! Awesome video!
I can't believe the show left out the Waymar Royce fight scene. It felt so cool in the books. By the way, whoever's voice was reading the prolouge did a great job.
Any thought that maybe the southern ambitions of Ned starks father could have been an attempt to instead spread out the stark blood as he may have had some dream while perhaps falling asleep near the winterfell tree? Perhaps to fulfil the prophecy of his own werewood dream?
Now there's a thought. Did the Starks habit of sitting on a weirwood mean they were being guided........I'd want to go back and look and see if Ned has anything like that going on in his head. I've never considered that, but I'm glad you asked!
@@JoeMagician I know they had a tradition of cleaning Ice there, and if somehow the werewood connection skips a generation then that would tie in well.
This is interesting, so I went to the text and found nothing compelling to suggest that it’s true. It seems more like Rickard was attempting to take advantage of the outcome of the War of the Ninepenny Kings, particularly the friendships forged during that war between the Tully pair, Arryn, Lord Baelish, the new Lord Baratheon, and Tywin. I couldn’t find anything to suggest that Rickard even fought in the Westeros portion of the war, namely the Stepstones battle, but he was trying to make a name for himself at court even at that time. Tywin didn’t exactly usurp his dad in name, but definitely in deed. This was a new base of power, and Rickard has several ins within this group. If he did fight at the Stepstones, the simple answer is that they were all a big group of war buddies, powerful in their own right outside the Targaryen leadership. The biggest information dump on this is Pycelle describing the war to Tommen, given the present context during that narration, Rickard would be the guy to leave out because Stark is a swear word at this moment in time. Unreliable narraration and all that. My guess is that they were all war buddies given the mingled fostering that happens directly after. They’re all practically sharing sons.
@@himynameisrev I know it may be a bit tin foil, but as a theory there could be some evidence of that as the southern always seemed to really blend but suddenly there are starks (who the text mentions usually marrying a high ranking banner man) starts mixing in the South. Maybe he had the dream/impulse/werewood influence prior to going to war and by using his political skill realized it would be the best way to spread out the blood.
It would make a for a neat explanation, I wouldn’t call it tinfoil. I find it extremely interesting. Those weirwood stumps are a tricky lot. There’s equally as little to suggest Rickard even fought in that war. Details about Rickard are scarce either way
Already knew this theory from the subreddit but this version made it even better! Can‘t remember if the detail about the Waymar losing blood (something that an undead Last Hero wouldn‘t be able to do) was in the original theory but it makes the whole thing even more believable! The last line got me so hyped for Winds. I need an announcement!!
Thank you :) You have heard of that from the original version of this! I posted it originally 3 years ago on Reddit and got very popular. Also Gray Area did a similar video about a year ago.
I did see Gray's video last year, you're right. I had not discovered the books yet 3 years ago, so I am still enjoying lots of content from you and others I have come to enjoy. Nice work!
Did Benjen (in Jon's chapter at Roberts feast) have a reason got wearing a heavy silver chain,similar to the one Tobho Mott wears,only there's no gemstone on Benjen? Does Benjen glamour on rangings,so he is not recognized as a Stark? Weird,I know,but why would he need a silver chain when NW men are so dressed down,unless of course your Waymar?Benjen also a thin man,and long legged.
I would put that down to a mark of his office as First Ranger or a keepsake from his time as a lordling as Winterfell. Highborn Night's Watch often discard their sigils and shields when they join but some keep personal items such as Longclaw or Waymar's wardrobe.
This is my favorite by you. I am putting this here because I worded it wrong on the answer the question portion of the calendar contest. Even down to the music this is a masterpiece!
Been awhile. So glad to see a new video. Thanks. Yet another excellent video on a topic that others aren’t covering. Really enjoy your ideas. Oh and 1st!
I just found this channel and this video is incredible. Really well done and thought out. Man I hope he finishes his books before dying and links all these things.
You definitely earned my subscription with this video. The amount of content and level of analysis is incredible. You should have millions of subscribers if your other videos are like this one!
This is excellent. The mention of all the characters who can apparently "see" things really got me thinking. Like the Ghost of High Heart. Maybe they're all meant to be connected and tell us something.
You're on the right track for sure, think about stories like Lovecraft when C'thulu is arriving and everyone around the world starts having similar dreams.
I like how you put it that from their perspective, Jon is the demon. It could very much play into Jon having a far darker personality and methodology when he returns. And all those skulls surrounding Jon in Melisandre's visions. Yes it could suggest that death is approaching him, and it is reminiscent of how many people kill him together, but why are they the skulls? Perhaps what Melisandre is actually afraid of is Jon's vengeance, even if she doesn't quite realise it.
Like the way you articulated that, yeah exactly. Or something having to do with his return signaling the end times. After Jon comes back from the dead, the Other will attack.
@@JoeMagician So perhaps they need Azor Ahai for something? Or if they believe they have been provoked, the presence of Azor Ahai is deemed as the last straw.
Brilliant again Joe and glad to read that you'll be making more content soon. I know content comes slowly likely because you have a life, but when you take the time, you sure do bring the goods with original material I'd not read elsewhere online.
Great video man, it's interesting to know the Others are also fallible when it comes to seeking prophecy. i see it as like a river with many divergent streams of possibility in what could happen. Bloodraven has been chasing & tracing future paths through the wierwoods to artificially create & bring about some kind of salvation for what we know is to come. We know Bloodraven keeps trying to change / influence future events..and i find it highly probable that he's had a role in many atrocities that have befallen the Targaryen's after he's been hooked up to the weirwoodnet in that cave. we take it to mean he's done all this to prevent the Long Night 2.0 and all towards a good end result for mankind. yet everything he touches seems to turn to shit in his quest to bring about "prophecy" - is the concept itself a poisoned chalice? or is there a Mirror of Erised effect in place when trying to manipulate the future, which means you can't seek the outcome you're looking for?
Absolutely, the greatest myth is that the Others are the actual "other", an unknowable alien species. They're us, they can be wrong, they can lose fights or wars, so all the very many wrong people in ASOIAF should be North of the Wall too. George's prophecy is designed to be hard, no one is supposed to understand it really in universe or people reading it. Great question about the poisoned chalice and the tinkering of time by Bloodraven. My take on that is that Bloodraven learned there's no changing time, the ink is dry. The Others refuse that reality, they are beyond death, flesh and blood, and are trying to change their fate. Right or wrong, they're resisting nature itself and the breaking of the world around them is probably a reflection of that.
just watched your livestream with LmL, was really well put together and had me thinking on things i hadn't considered or uncovered before - good job i do agree the ink is dry on messing with the past timeline, by about 99.99% at the least but i remember the concept of time not being linear for the weirwoods. Like when Bran is in the heart tree when Eddard had just got back from executing the NW deserter & i believe Bran says his name and his father hears him. he is in the tree and still at Winterfell simultaneously. i am wary of any proposed fatalism or destiny for our characters in ASoIaF. we run the full gamut of what is possible within our constraints as humans and this manifests reality. the word i'd use is potentiality. it's not set in stone of anyone being our pre-ordained hero, but it is within their grasp. as for whats to come; i see that is what is yours to make. the pages are not yet written. this is why i think there are timelines that have never happened; but they could have. such as Dragons being brought into the world at Summerhall & Rhaegar taking on the mantle of our hero in actuality, or Daemon Blackfyre winning the civil war, etc
@@Baratheon. It might only be possible to change the future if you have no perception of what it is supposed to be via prophecy and dreams. *waves at Jon Snow, knowing nothing*
Im more inclined to the theory that jon is the prince that was promised but for the others not for mankind. But this is a very good theory. On another note I love how to craster the others are like the mafia, as he pays them for protection lool
Wow this was so much fun, I'm a new subscriber and this is literally the first video I've watched on this channel. I'm so excited for all the other content you have and will have.
What an amazing book series That we find more and more of the potential theories and foreshadowing of the end in a short prologue we all read years and years ago Amazing video and great job on the research and connecting all the dots
Ah...very, very nice. I'm really looking forward to the Winds of Winter to see where we go with Jon and the foreshadowing of his battle with the others. Thanks for a great video!
Pretty dope how u figured this out. Gray Area nailed this too 4 years ago….. exactly why they went after Waymar Royce and his sable cloak, dark features, and beautiful sword. She even went over the many similarities in the descriptions of Royce and Jon Snow like you did. They’re described damn near like doppelgängers. Her video is called “Jon Snow is the Cause of the White Walkers Return.” You should check it out and all her work if you’re an ASOIAF junkie. You and her would probably do some amazing collabs. Thanks again dude. This was awesome! I’m gonna check out more of your vids. After I find a really good one I get hooked. I might binge watch em all. 😂 Sidenote: Cannot wait for TWOW!
Yup, we've worked together in the past on both of our channels. My written theory by the same name as this video that I posted on reddit in 2015. We've known each other for a long time. Edit: It's your lucky day, here's some links where we worked together th-cam.com/video/8T5MtlBgxa0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/M60REkrLPE0/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/TZ3t1YIiC9E/w-d-xo.html
@@JoeMagician Yeah man I actually found your original theory on Reddit last night after I watched your vid. Posted 6 years ago it said. Awesome as hell. Thanks for the links tho. I’m gonna check em out for sure.
Video content is interesting, the pace is wonderful. I don't like videos that feel like I am being talked at instead of to. Backing music rounds it all off. Can't believe you don't have more subscribers!
Amazing theory and so for the open! I think waymar has to be stark of the male line, with the gen for warging in his body. I like to add that not only jon is discriped as gracious and quick like the Starks but also the others are!
I think it's very possible he is, either from intermarriage like I talked about going back to Beron Stark or being a bastard of Brandon Stark much more recently. I love that comparison, excellent point. Waymar is fighting himself.
Yes i agree, by warging i mean the whole skinchanging abillity (gen). I think the others need that gen combined with the necromancy gen that could come from the line of the bloodstone emperor. Maybe Crasters wives are descended from him, but i dont know enough of this stuff to back this up. But the emperor is the only one thats "confirmed" to has this ability. So crasters or his wives has both genes close to each other on the loci and will pass both genes to all the children i guess.
Thank you so much for making sense of the prologue that plagued me since I read Game of Thrones in 2010. I've always wondered at the significance of the language used and at why they would need as many of the Others as they did to kill Waymar Royce as they did because it just never made sense to use that many to kill one knight of the Nights Watch on his first ranging but you have an amazing eye to spot the details that are hidden in plain sight and I have to give it to you and I applaud you for your great work. I also totally believe that Waymar IS Brandon Stark's bastard son, by 'Randa' Royce, why else ride the River Road west then the King's Road North to Winterfell, unless you want to compare him to a Stark or other like minded business. F**King amazing work Ser Joe of the Magic Can... sorry I just had to. I'm not making fun but I don't think the word magician came into use well after the period being thought of as "Westerosi" and I just wanted to give you a Westerosi knights name.
Nice video!I love the details! I would certainly agree that Waymar and Jon might fit a certain "type". But another important Stark that is missing north of the wall is Benjen Stark. Perhaps the Other's have him, and never intended to kill the man they were looking for. Maybe they hope to draw Jon to them with Benjen? They only seem to attack Waymar after realizing he was not quite what they sought. The Stark that Craster would have been most familiar with is Benjen, so perhaps the Other's were looking for Benjen, or someone who shares the same looks as Benjen? Although, Benjen does not have the classic Stark grey eyes, according to Jon Snow. Waymar has some physical criteria that also fit's Jon Snow. Another man in out story who wields a special blade and hails from the Vale is Lyn Corbray. Lyn is slender and quick, dark haired although we have no description of eye color, he is bold and quick tempered. He also reminds me of a "type" that we might be looking for. And he has Lady Forlorn, a sword that is a dark steel, but not necessarily Valyrian steel, as it is probably older than Valyrian steel. So what is this sword made out of? He claims his sword likes a "drop of red". After Waymar dances with the Other, and is defeated, then the rest of the watching Other's step in to stab him. But why? He is already dead or dying, so this seems pointless. Will claims it is cold butchery, but I think it might be something else. Perhaps Waymar's blood is special, important. And each sword of the Other's was then tempered in this blood!!! It might be why they sought him out. I do think it's interesting that neither Jon nor Waymar slept under Craster's roof, ate his food or seemed to accept his guest right. I am not sure what it might mean, but I think it's important. One thing that has always struck me in Jon's dream where he wears armor made of black ice, is the comment about "red mist". If Jon is truly killing the Other's, or their dead, they will not have red blood, so why the red mist in the air? The only other time "red mist" is used in the story is to describe the Hound shedding the blood of Sansa's attacker's in the riot in King's Landing. The wight's will not have red blood, so is this "red mist" of Jon's something else? It reminds me of Eddard's "red rage", perhaps a berserker type of moment. Or Jon isn't killing wight's in his dream! I would also speculate that Gared might have been saved by making a fire to protect himself. He wanted to earlier in the chapter, and I think that is exactly what he did, which protected himself from the wights, if not the Other's, as well! Also, if the Other's want Jon, why didn't they seek him out the whole time he was north of the wall? They would have had opportunity and time. Even if they thought he was at the Fist, they sent no Other's, only wights. It is possible that Jon is not exactly what they are seeking?
It will end how the story began I believe.. there will be a duel between Jon an the others leader or the "night king" in the show.. also Jon and waymar Royce looked similar and both had blood of the first men. Also it's been underlined alot about "the old way" and one on one combat. Also it would be sweet if long claw was actually left to mormont with instructions to pick Jon as his squire and give him "long claw" or DARK SISTER! They are both described as bastard swords that are as dark as smoke and the suspect pummel switch.. also it's made to stand out just how important those swords are to the houses.. so valuable tywin couldn't even buy one.. anyways good video man!👍 Grrm says the first book tells all if interpretated right and I think the prolog was very important an really the only solid glimpse into the others and what they want or are trying to achieve I CANT WAIT for winds of winter...👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
Dark Sister went with Bloodraven/The Three eyed raven to his cave. Meera picks up the sword in the show as well as the books and George confirmed that Bloodraven took Dark Sister with him to the wall.
Dark Sister isn't a bastard sword. It is shorter and lighter than Blackfyre and therefore smaller still than a bastard sword. No woman could wield a sword that big. Besides, Meera has Dark Sister now.
@@TommyBombadillioWhy do you say no woman would be able to wield a bastard sword? Even greatswords and zweihanders weighed less than 3kg. That's less than an AK-47 which have famously been put in the hands of poorly-nourished child soldiers around the world. Also like. Brienne is right there in the books.
I very much enjoyed this...so much that I watched it twice, which i rarely do. There is a lot going on in the prologue..so much i missed my first two times around.
Great video first off, first time finding you. You got me thinking with this. Could the others have sort of set about their own downfall with their actions against Bonzeballs Waymar Royce? By trying to prevent prophecy sort of set prophecy in motion. The others did let the nights watchmen live, and that watchmen got executed in front of Jon.. and on the way back from that they find the Dire Wolves. In an indirect way they Others gave the tools needed to defeat them to the last hero.
Could Craster have ratted Waymars party to the Others because he knows dragonsteel is their BANE?He mistakes Waymars BLACK STEEL as Valyrian steel,so he must be a Stark...Craster wrecked his axe on Benjens party( like Hound in the show did on Wayward brotherhood)...Craster attacked Jon in the woods...he's probably got nocturnal vision like a cat by now. So like Gilly said our husband keeps us safe. The large amount of others may be due to them suspecting Waymar has dragonsteel...
Interesting idea Connie! So you think maybe Craster is bad at recognizing dragonsteel so his black steel comment hints to that. I'll bring that up during the stream.
@@JoeMagician I think Craster has sworn fealty to the Others,so he's their informer,and maybe they SEE what Craster sees,and he saw Waymars BLACK steel,and that's why possibly that number of others came after Waymar,because it was seen as dragonsteel, or reforged(be it poorly) Valyrian steel or a Westerosi attempt at reforging it,and that's why it broke. Will was going to take the broken parts back to wall,as you recall,but Waymar killed him.
The incomparable Joe Magician. A nice video of a comparison of Bran and the NK would be nice Joe. It's a bit different than your usual and more show material obviously, but I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter in this long night
Never has prolouge even to this daay made me want to carry on reading a book series like ASOAIF like this did and man was happy i did ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE GRRM and as for Ser Waymar Royce I couldnt stand him untill gia infanously bad aas line DAMCE WUTH ME THEN" in my eyes he went from double zero to a triple hero!!Love your interpretation of this Joe Magician and this is what pulled me and made me subscribe to your channel. Alway great content Thakyou
Just came to listen after watching the related live cast! Excellent discussion. I will keep my eye out for the Three Witches of MacBeth podcast. I heard you reference that George incorporates related characters in A Dance with Dragons, but offhand I can’t think who they are in that book.
I think you might have left a detail hanging, at least, I could not see where you linked back to it later. You wanted the viewer to take note that Craster does not mention Will at all, I could not figure out what the particular significance of that was, but I’m listening whilst working and I’m also dense :)
The point of that was how much Craster was zeroing in Waymar, how much attention was given to him over the other two. Will doesn't even warrant a mention, but he rattles off what Waymar was wearing, what he looked like, what his wives thought, where he slept.
My theory from your Q&A with In Deep Geek - HOLY ****!!!!!!! You are absolutely right Joe and I can back you up. I had an epiphany that struck so hard watching this video that I stopped it half way through to run and verify something in "A Dance With Dragons". This blows my understanding of the story wide open but only because I realized you were wrong on one crucial point. Why the White Walkers are targeting Jon Snow specifically. They don't believe Jon is Azor Ahai reborn but in fact Jon is the only means in which Lightbringer can be reborn. There are several key points which back this up. The first is Jon himself. You talked about the similarities between Jon and Waymar at the start of the video. Their body types were described like a knife. Jon's eyes are grey which is the color of steel. Jon is a master swordsman and wields a Valyrian steel blade. He is unyielding in his honor and commitment to do the right thing. So many of his traits and characteristics could also describe a sword. The second point is what I had to verify in the book. When Jon is betrayed and stabbed he pulled the dagger out and described the wound as "smoking" due to the cold air. Now the correct term would be "steaming" so this was a deliberate choice by Martin. In "Fire and Blood" wounds to dragons are also described as "smoking" and I thought was a nod to Jon's assumed Targaryen heritage in the books. Now I know it's meant to be foreshadowing. In the prophecy it says that Azor Ahai reborn will pull Lightbringer from a burning fire. In a previous interview Martin described Beric Dondarion as a "fire wight". So if Jon is resurrected or has his body restored by Melissandra he would also be a "fire wight" or even "living fire" as Lightbringer is also described. This leads to me third point which changes the story the most in that the Azor Ahai legend itself doesn't make sense or is being misinterpreted. During the Long Night Azor Ahai and the living were powerless UNTIL Lightbringer was forged. Ergo Lightbringer was the most crucial element in defeating the White Walkers. They surely remember how they lost and intend to prevent it from happening again. Jon is the literal combination of Ice and Fire and magic from both bloodlines is likely required to recreate Lightbringer. He is also the only person to have it. Dany has dragons and other characters can lead armies but in the videos discussion Lightbringer is Jon having Valyrian steel at Hardhome. It changes the game. Remove him and it's over. In addition the legend is thousands of years old and is folklore at this point. The reality of a story like that would fit Tolkien not Martin. With the White Walkers access to a green seers ability, the Weirwood network, or just their own history would give them the truth. Also if they sleep for thousands of years then really how many generations for them has it been since the Long Night? The fourth point it that Melissandra can't interpret ****. Melissandra asks to Azor Ahai and is shown Jon Snow but she is unreliable in prophecy and likely being shown what's important without realizing it. Martin kept Lightbringer in the story and it would be within Melissandra's character to only see the sword as a way to identify Azor Ahai instead of something more important. After all the initial information came from or by way of her. It all totally fits. All the Azor Ahai vids I watched now seem irrelevant in my own head. Will one of these awesome channels or just anyone please tell me if I am wrong because all that literally rushed into me head in like 30 seconds so I haven't thought through all the pieces.
Interesting ideas! You may be onto something there. The relationship between Will and Waymar is one of brain and arm. The watchers and the fighter. So if Jon is Waymar, then Bran may be Will and wield his brother like a flaming sword!
I understood Craster saying that jon look like a stark like his way to say he look like a noble, as craster realistically don't know what a stark look like, when he has certainly met nobles serving in the night watch like Waymar Royce
"Dance with me then" Can't believe the show left that out!
Agreed, amazing line.
And they may yet use the line somewhere else in season 8. I'll not be surprised if they do.
They really missed out, thus we did as well. I don't like the show. Mummars farce.
So fucking badass
@@nuclearjanitors I liked the show and accepted everything they did even if it didn't make sense sometimes....then i stumbled into Preston Jacobs videos. Now I'm only about the books. Show predictions doesn't intrest me anymore.
My two favourite chapters. Prologue, of Agot, and the effective epilogue Dany chapter, where it cuts to an extrospective view, of "for the frst time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the sound of dragons.
Starts with magic. Gives us a whole 900 page novel with next to no magic. Ends with magic
The prologue of book 1 was what made me hostage to the books, but what made it rough was the latter book chapters of Dany. She really made it a struggle at times. I believe this is the main reason George can’t seem to finish it. She’s just not all that interesting.
@@lissettelopez8331 Without the prologue, the entire first book would have failed. Even with jaime pushing Bran, the first 200 pages are quite dry.
The idea of this overarching magical threat is what keeps us there.
@@elyastoohey6621I agree. The first 200 pages were a bit difficult to get through yet I don't regret reading them.
@@lissettelopez8331I'm no Dany fan and I find it cringe the way people worship her blinding their eyes to all the crazy stuff she does.
However I would never in a million years call her _uninteresting_
I think Dany, Bran and Euron are the most interesting people in the books.
Out of curiosity, what exactly about her you find so uninteresting?
@@gerardjagroothe Dance chapters are very similar, learning to rule, forbidden romance, it’s very similar to Tyrions chapters in book 2, without any of the parts that made Tyrions chapters so good
He is a man...Ser Waymar, for all his pomp and arrogance, really mans thr fuck up when its time. He knows what he is fighting. He's scared. But does it anyways, he faces what he certainly knows is his death like a man. RIP.
a stubborn runt
He seems like a character who would have been interesting to have gotten to know more through the story, had his life not been cut short by fate.
Wait,Waymar had black steel??? No wonder the Walkers eyed his sword,expecting possibly Longclaw or ICE!Oh dang,just noticed the BLACK STEEL reference by Craster...Wow!
Is Black Steel the name of a V steel sword?
@@nuclearjanitors I don't know,but in early Tyrion chapter,he is reading in a book he borrowed from WF library about how dragon bone is BLACK and about it's strength and how sharp,and also about obsidian...in first book.
@@conniesuper9892 i remember... I was wondering if perhaps that was the name of a Valyrian sword or if there had been a known Valyrian sword that the others were looking for in specific. I do believe they have some sort of greensight they have to, so it is possible that they could see particular swords and the people who wielded them
@@conniesuper9892 Seven hells, dragonbone was black. I was wondering about black ice armor being obsidian known to have anti Others properties. I thought of it as sort of woven scale armor meant to terrify and discourage Others touch, with not much protective properties because it's so brittle.
But we don't know how dragonbone works, I believe? May it block blades of ice like Valyrian steel? Might Jon have been armored in black reskin of dragonplate armor from Skyrim? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sounds to me that Jon was probably wearing a dark variation of the Death Brand armor set. ; - ) @@KnightLincoln
Love this!
But MAYBE when they cut Waymar they expected his blood to SMOKE, and when it didn’t they knew they had the wrong man.
Jon’s mortal wounds smoked in his last chapter.
Fire to combat the ice.
Definitely intentional on GRRMs part. George likes to focus on small insignificant details to act as red herrings to mislead readers but Jon's blood smoking in the snow is an unusual event. Fire and Ice is quite literally the title of the books and occurs nowhere else in the series for another human (except perhaps Beric, though I may be misremembering that), only for wounded dragons. Unless we see another character bleed smoke on ice we must treat this detail as significant.
It could just be the heat of his blood steaming the air and the ice and smoke is figurative speech.
Well done! This video brings us back to the core...to the very heart of the story, stripping away all the distraction plot threads. Thank you.
"To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."
_Dance With Me, Then..._
God Damn, this man had that Dawg in him!
Was Benjen hated as a "little Lordling" like Jon was when he went to the watch? Did Benjen have a "Chet",waiting to rat him out to Craster,so the watch could keep their hands clean? Was Waymar sent out by Jeor(raven on his shoulder) and then Benjen sent out after Waymar,and Craster took Benjen AS A SACRIFICE,and bled him,like Jons vision of Benjen bleeding in the Snow.
Wow this is actually amazing. How am I only discovering this channel now?!
What a great video. I like what Preston Jacobs or The Order of the Green Hand are doing but sometimes their videos are as exciting as a scientific paper. I'm a big fan of the more narrative route you took.
Thank you! I like to use the medium and be a bit more theatrical, otherwise it may as well be a podcast.
@Adalbert Schwahfel Also the order of the green hand make a 30 minute video of one word
Excellent, Joe! I love this chapter - i love that it stands alone as a micro-novella that sucks us right into the greater ASOIAF, setting a tone and timbre for the enormity of what the human world is facing, but that it ALSO stands alone, upon re-read, as this puzzle to be unravelled, giving clues to the deep underlying genetic and thematic components of the story, the relationships between the Starks and the Others, the Last Hero and the Battle for the Dawn. just brilliant.
Excellent theory, Mr Woodhouses voice was as clear and crisp as summer snow. The points you made to Others action and strategy, show their intelligence and motivations.
Now from some crackpottery, but it has merit so bare with me.
Bejen Stark went looking for Waymar ,and no doubt enquired at Crasters. Bejen could be the only Stark Craster has met ,so his template for a Stark.
I think Bejen dies near Crasters and wargs into a dog. Bejen leaves the wall with 6 men all clad in black fur. At Crasters a dog and 6 pups in black fur.
Bejen Stark the wolf pup , then in your video Waymar is compared to a pup.
Joer Mormont says if Ben was alive he would come to us.
When Joer arrives at Crasters the dog comes to him.
Come Bejen be the second act ?
This prologue is so creepy but I could listen to theories about it all day. I hope it is eventually explained in the upcoming books.
This is SUCH a meticulous and well-argued video. I love it!
These are the best game of thrones videos on the internet. Fantastic work.
“A villain is a hero of the other side”
I’ve always maintained the thought that the White Walkers are not just the Big Bad, they’re probably misunderstood. However after you said they would see the Last Hero as their Great Other, I can’t help but feel extra empathetic towards this completely fictional race of creatures. Ruined my whole evening. 😂
It's sorta like how the Nazis felt about the Allies so don't feel too bad for them haha.
@@JoeMagician but the others were created by the children and may be trapped in a perpetual hell, one that even death cant save them from. (i guess one could argue that the treaty of versailles post WW1 helped create the nazis, but this book isnt about ww2 or nazis). to me, the others are slaves who have been stuck in a frozen wasteland for millennia. i sometimes wonder if they welcome death and an end to this captivity.
@@pat442389 There is no proof of the children crating the Others in the books. Thats show only.
I think the Others are among the native sentient beings in North Westeros.
Ice Elves like. Then when the Children of the Forest went further North to get away from the Humans who invaded the continent, the Others went to war against the intruding Children of The Forest.
. The Children of the Forest couldnt fight on two fronts, so they made peace with Humans, made BS claims about the Others being BADDIES, so that Humans will fight against the Others.
The Others were driven further North. And even with an obvious border Wall, the stinkin Humans still insist on tresspassing the country of The Others.
What People wouldnt want REVENGE against Humanity afterwards? They were minding their own business on THEIR NATIVE LAND when suddenly their territories were invaded.
GRRM himself said that he doesn't intend the Others to have any culture
Thanks! I loved this explanation, I have dyslexia and the way the books are written make them impossible for me to read. I tried the books on Audible but I don't like the voice of the reader your videos are a lifesaver
Glad it was helpful!
I was confused at first because I was thinking what about Benjen? Why was he not accosted as a Stark, and then I was remembering how Starks are historically known to take the black. They are one of the few houses that take the Night's Watch seriously. How come past Stark crows haven't been accosted? But then I figured they are probably looking specifically for Jon, the Prince that was promised. The show still confuses things though, because the Others have seen Jon now for sure, and have let him get away twice. What's that about?
D & D hating magical elements of ASOIAF
I always thought there were 12 additional others (three, then four and five). 3+4+5=12. A dozen slashes to his cloak, one from each of the additional Others.
Good point. I had not considered that. I like that number 12 better. I’m sure GRRM did that on purpose.
I love the what if idea of the others finding Jaime, armed with two hands and a sword of valaryian steel.
The long night would have been infinitely shorter.
How had I not seen you channel before??? Glad I did. Awesome analysis.
Jon was promised ( The price that was promised ) to them.. They want him for they're leader, The Great Other or to carry the mantle of The Night King. Being from the side of the living He's the Last Hero, Joe you hit the nail of the head! Ultimately he will have to make the sacrifice he was destined to make to save us all..
-So.. Apparently, I've finally found all the intelligent ASOIAF readers / fans! Awesome video!
Never thought about to whom this Prince was promised... Very interesting.
@@marcusanark2541 It seems so simple! It's like "How did I not pick this up immediately?"
@@made-line7627 Yes, I feel the same way.
I can't believe the show left out the Waymar Royce fight scene. It felt so cool in the books.
By the way, whoever's voice was reading the prolouge did a great job.
My favorite video! I watch it every couple of months!!! 🤦🏽♀️😊😊
Any thought that maybe the southern ambitions of Ned starks father could have been an attempt to instead spread out the stark blood as he may have had some dream while perhaps falling asleep near the winterfell tree? Perhaps to fulfil the prophecy of his own werewood dream?
Now there's a thought. Did the Starks habit of sitting on a weirwood mean they were being guided........I'd want to go back and look and see if Ned has anything like that going on in his head. I've never considered that, but I'm glad you asked!
@@JoeMagician I know they had a tradition of cleaning Ice there, and if somehow the werewood connection skips a generation then that would tie in well.
This is interesting, so I went to the text and found nothing compelling to suggest that it’s true. It seems more like Rickard was attempting to take advantage of the outcome of the War of the Ninepenny Kings, particularly the friendships forged during that war between the Tully pair, Arryn, Lord Baelish, the new Lord Baratheon, and Tywin. I couldn’t find anything to suggest that Rickard even fought in the Westeros portion of the war, namely the Stepstones battle, but he was trying to make a name for himself at court even at that time. Tywin didn’t exactly usurp his dad in name, but definitely in deed. This was a new base of power, and Rickard has several ins within this group. If he did fight at the Stepstones, the simple answer is that they were all a big group of war buddies, powerful in their own right outside the Targaryen leadership. The biggest information dump on this is Pycelle describing the war to Tommen, given the present context during that narration, Rickard would be the guy to leave out because Stark is a swear word at this moment in time. Unreliable narraration and all that. My guess is that they were all war buddies given the mingled fostering that happens directly after. They’re all practically sharing sons.
@@himynameisrev I know it may be a bit tin foil, but as a theory there could be some evidence of that as the southern always seemed to really blend but suddenly there are starks (who the text mentions usually marrying a high ranking banner man) starts mixing in the South. Maybe he had the dream/impulse/werewood influence prior to going to war and by using his political skill realized it would be the best way to spread out the blood.
It would make a for a neat explanation, I wouldn’t call it tinfoil. I find it extremely interesting. Those weirwood stumps are a tricky lot. There’s equally as little to suggest Rickard even fought in that war. Details about Rickard are scarce either way
Poor Waymar, the White Walkers should've been looking for a little girl who likes to water dance with her needle.
I'm gettting to know your work just now; great stuff !
Already knew this theory from the subreddit but this version made it even better! Can‘t remember if the detail about the Waymar losing blood (something that an undead Last Hero wouldn‘t be able to do) was in the original theory but it makes the whole thing even more believable! The last line got me so hyped for Winds. I need an announcement!!
I have heard the idea of Waymar being confused for Jon before - you did a great job of connecting all the dots to support this (plausible) theories.
Thank you :) You have heard of that from the original version of this! I posted it originally 3 years ago on Reddit and got very popular. Also Gray Area did a similar video about a year ago.
I did see Gray's video last year, you're right. I had not discovered the books yet 3 years ago, so I am still enjoying lots of content from you and others I have come to enjoy. Nice work!
Cant wait for the winds of winter. Just seen u posted this on twitter and couldnt wait to see it. Just read the prolouge again
Did Benjen (in Jon's chapter at Roberts feast) have a reason got wearing a heavy silver chain,similar to the one Tobho Mott wears,only there's no gemstone on Benjen? Does Benjen glamour on rangings,so he is not recognized as a Stark? Weird,I know,but why would he need a silver chain when NW men are so dressed down,unless of course your Waymar?Benjen also a thin man,and long legged.
Yeah i just read this part again
Mayhaps the walkers knew of a future undead Benjen?
Connie Super. No
I would put that down to a mark of his office as First Ranger or a keepsake from his time as a lordling as Winterfell. Highborn Night's Watch often discard their sigils and shields when they join but some keep personal items such as Longclaw or Waymar's wardrobe.
This is my favorite by you. I am putting this here because I worded it wrong on the answer the question portion of the calendar contest. Even down to the music this is a masterpiece!
Been awhile. So glad to see a new video. Thanks. Yet another excellent video on a topic that others aren’t covering. Really enjoy your ideas.
Oh and 1st!
I know, I've been back in school. Over the next few weeks you'll be getting more though!
@@JoeMagician awesome
I just found this channel and this video is incredible. Really well done and thought out. Man I hope he finishes his books before dying and links all these things.
One of the best videos I've ever heard on the subject, cheers to you all.
You definitely earned my subscription with this video. The amount of content and level of analysis is incredible. You should have millions of subscribers if your other videos are like this one!
One sub at a time, we'll get there
This is excellent.
The mention of all the characters who can apparently "see" things really got me thinking. Like the Ghost of High Heart. Maybe they're all meant to be connected and tell us something.
Come to think of it I think TGOHH refers to the old gods telling her things. So maybe her powers are weirwood-based.
You're on the right track for sure, think about stories like Lovecraft when C'thulu is arriving and everyone around the world starts having similar dreams.
I watched this video when it first came out and now all my favorite youtubers have been talking about this nonstop.
They have? Which ones are also talking about it?
Well done, excellent video and research. Thank you
I like how you put it that from their perspective, Jon is the demon. It could very much play into Jon having a far darker personality and methodology when he returns. And all those skulls surrounding Jon in Melisandre's visions. Yes it could suggest that death is approaching him, and it is reminiscent of how many people kill him together, but why are they the skulls? Perhaps what Melisandre is actually afraid of is Jon's vengeance, even if she doesn't quite realise it.
Like the way you articulated that, yeah exactly. Or something having to do with his return signaling the end times. After Jon comes back from the dead, the Other will attack.
@@JoeMagician So perhaps they need Azor Ahai for something? Or if they believe they have been provoked, the presence of Azor Ahai is deemed as the last straw.
Brilliant again Joe and glad to read that you'll be making more content soon. I know content comes slowly likely because you have a life, but when you take the time, you sure do bring the goods with original material I'd not read elsewhere online.
You’ve been hinting for awhile and this did not disappoint:)
This is my favourite theory on the Internet. Thanks Matt ❤️
Awesome insight, man. Thanks for the great content!
Waymar is such a CHAD!
Amazing work man, my favorite theory video I've seen in a long time! Really enriches everything and I can't see how it wasn't intended by George.
Hey man love your videos. Can’t believe I’m only finding this channel now ❤
Welcome aboard!
Wow! This really blew my mind. Great video!!
Def one of my favorite channels now.
What a video! What ending line. Thanks!!!
Great video man, it's interesting to know the Others are also fallible when it comes to seeking prophecy. i see it as like a river with many divergent streams of possibility in what could happen.
Bloodraven has been chasing & tracing future paths through the wierwoods to artificially create & bring about some kind of salvation for what we know is to come.
We know Bloodraven keeps trying to change / influence future events..and i find it highly probable that he's had a role in many atrocities that have befallen the Targaryen's after he's been hooked up to the weirwoodnet in that cave. we take it to mean he's done all this to prevent the Long Night 2.0 and all towards a good end result for mankind.
yet everything he touches seems to turn to shit in his quest to bring about "prophecy" - is the concept itself a poisoned chalice? or is there a Mirror of Erised effect in place when trying to manipulate the future, which means you can't seek the outcome you're looking for?
Absolutely, the greatest myth is that the Others are the actual "other", an unknowable alien species. They're us, they can be wrong, they can lose fights or wars, so all the very many wrong people in ASOIAF should be North of the Wall too. George's prophecy is designed to be hard, no one is supposed to understand it really in universe or people reading it.
Great question about the poisoned chalice and the tinkering of time by Bloodraven. My take on that is that Bloodraven learned there's no changing time, the ink is dry. The Others refuse that reality, they are beyond death, flesh and blood, and are trying to change their fate. Right or wrong, they're resisting nature itself and the breaking of the world around them is probably a reflection of that.
just watched your livestream with LmL, was really well put together and had me thinking on things i hadn't considered or uncovered before - good job
i do agree the ink is dry on messing with the past timeline, by about 99.99% at the least
but i remember the concept of time not being linear for the weirwoods. Like when Bran is in the heart tree when Eddard had just got back from executing the NW deserter & i believe Bran says his name and his father hears him. he is in the tree and still at Winterfell simultaneously.
i am wary of any proposed fatalism or destiny for our characters in ASoIaF. we run the full gamut of what is possible within our constraints as humans and this manifests reality. the word i'd use is potentiality. it's not set in stone of anyone being our pre-ordained hero, but it is within their grasp.
as for whats to come; i see that is what is yours to make. the pages are not yet written. this is why i think there are timelines that have never happened; but they could have. such as Dragons being brought into the world at Summerhall & Rhaegar taking on the mantle of our hero in actuality, or Daemon Blackfyre winning the civil war, etc
@@Baratheon. It might only be possible to change the future if you have no perception of what it is supposed to be via prophecy and dreams. *waves at Jon Snow, knowing nothing*
@@JoeMagician Very interesting.
It's also fitting that it is because the Other's attempt to avert the prophecy that sets it in all in motion.
Thanks for proving to me that I wasn't paying attention all those years ago (when I read this originally). Great catch.
Man, amazing dissection. Please keep it coming. I never really noticed that Waymar was mistaken for a Stark. Cray cray my dude.
Im more inclined to the theory that jon is the prince that was promised but for the others not for mankind. But this is a very good theory. On another note I love how to craster the others are like the mafia, as he pays them for protection lool
Wow this was so much fun, I'm a new subscriber and this is literally the first video I've watched on this channel. I'm so excited for all the other content you have and will have.
What an amazing book series
That we find more and more of the potential theories and foreshadowing of the end in a short prologue we all read years and years ago
Amazing video and great job on the research and connecting all the dots
JoeyMagics coming through with a great video. Nice work sir.
Ah...very, very nice. I'm really looking forward to the Winds of Winter to see where we go with Jon and the foreshadowing of his battle with the others. Thanks for a great video!
I have not extra cash to support yet, but man thanks for your job - favorite channel among all others.
No worries! Liking, subscribing, and sharing my videos and channel is more than enough.
Dude, your videos are fire 🔥
Pretty dope how u figured this out. Gray Area nailed this too 4 years ago….. exactly why they went after Waymar Royce and his sable cloak, dark features, and beautiful sword. She even went over the many similarities in the descriptions of Royce and Jon Snow like you did. They’re described damn near like doppelgängers. Her video is called “Jon Snow is the Cause of the White Walkers Return.” You should check it out and all her work if you’re an ASOIAF junkie. You and her would probably do some amazing collabs.
Thanks again dude. This was awesome! I’m gonna check out more of your vids. After I find a really good one I get hooked. I might binge watch em all. 😂
Sidenote: Cannot wait for TWOW!
Yup, we've worked together in the past on both of our channels. My written theory by the same name as this video that I posted on reddit in 2015. We've known each other for a long time.
Edit: It's your lucky day, here's some links where we worked together
th-cam.com/video/8T5MtlBgxa0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/M60REkrLPE0/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/TZ3t1YIiC9E/w-d-xo.html
@@JoeMagician Yeah man I actually found your original theory on Reddit last night after I watched your vid. Posted 6 years ago it said. Awesome as hell. Thanks for the links tho. I’m gonna check em out for sure.
Found this through the Talking Dead retweet. This is an amazing thought and almost certainly an amazing piece of the puzzle. Thank you
The best analysis of the first prologue. 👌
Excellent video. Thank you for taking the time to explain this in detail. I have always suspected this was the case and you've confirmed my theory.
Thanks for this video... just read this the other night
Wow - I would have never thought of this!
Video content is interesting, the pace is wonderful. I don't like videos that feel like I am being talked at instead of to. Backing music rounds it all off. Can't believe you don't have more subscribers!
I was going for spooky and tragic, seems like it worked out :) I'll get there, one video at a time. Posting more frequently would probably help.
@@JoeMagician Keep it up. Quality beats quantity everytime. 👍 so found you via a podcast you did with Gray. You guys should do that again.
Oh we will, Gray is awesome. We may talk about this topic :)
Last question I promise Joe. What is the haunting music at the beginning of this video?
This is great, so interesting, it's been a while since I've read the books I'll be starting on them again,thanks. Subbed
Awesome, thank you!
Amazing theory and so for the open! I think waymar has to be stark of the male line, with the gen for warging in his body. I like to add that not only jon is discriped as gracious and quick like the Starks but also the others are!
I think it's very possible he is, either from intermarriage like I talked about going back to Beron Stark or being a bastard of Brandon Stark much more recently.
I love that comparison, excellent point. Waymar is fighting himself.
Yes i agree, by warging i mean the whole skinchanging abillity (gen). I think the others need that gen combined with the necromancy gen that could come from the line of the bloodstone emperor. Maybe Crasters wives are descended from him, but i dont know enough of this stuff to back this up. But the emperor is the only one thats "confirmed" to has this ability. So crasters or his wives has both genes close to each other on the loci and will pass both genes to all the children i guess.
So Craster’s parents gave him the right genes and by impregnating his daughters he is keeping his genes pure?.....is that some of what you are saying?
At one point it seems like they are just playing with him they are even laughing and mocking
Thank you so much for making sense of the prologue that plagued me since I read Game of Thrones in 2010. I've always wondered at the significance of the language used and at why they would need as many of the Others as they did to kill Waymar Royce as they did because it just never made sense to use that many to kill one knight of the Nights Watch on his first ranging but you have an amazing eye to spot the details that are hidden in plain sight and I have to give it to you and I applaud you for your great work. I also totally believe that Waymar IS Brandon Stark's bastard son, by 'Randa' Royce, why else ride the River Road west then the King's Road North to Winterfell, unless you want to compare him to a Stark or other like minded business. F**King amazing work Ser Joe of the Magic Can... sorry I just had to. I'm not making fun but I don't think the word magician came into use well after the period being thought of as "Westerosi" and I just wanted to give you a Westerosi knights name.
Thanks for this vid. enjoyed it.
God I wish I had noticed this kind of stuff when I read the books.
Very very perceptive 👌🏽
Great stuff, Joe!
Nice video!I love the details!
I would certainly agree that Waymar and Jon might fit a certain "type". But another important Stark that is missing north of the wall is Benjen Stark. Perhaps the Other's have him, and never intended to kill the man they were looking for. Maybe they hope to draw Jon to them with Benjen? They only seem to attack Waymar after realizing he was not quite what they sought. The Stark that Craster would have been most familiar with is Benjen, so perhaps the Other's were looking for Benjen, or someone who shares the same looks as Benjen? Although, Benjen does not have the classic Stark grey eyes, according to Jon Snow.
Waymar has some physical criteria that also fit's Jon Snow. Another man in out story who wields a special blade and hails from the Vale is Lyn Corbray. Lyn is slender and quick, dark haired although we have no description of eye color, he is bold and quick tempered. He also reminds me of a "type" that we might be looking for. And he has Lady Forlorn, a sword that is a dark steel, but not necessarily Valyrian steel, as it is probably older than Valyrian steel. So what is this sword made out of? He claims his sword likes a "drop of red".
After Waymar dances with the Other, and is defeated, then the rest of the watching Other's step in to stab him. But why? He is already dead or dying, so this seems pointless. Will claims it is cold butchery, but I think it might be something else. Perhaps Waymar's blood is special, important. And each sword of the Other's was then tempered in this blood!!! It might be why they sought him out.
I do think it's interesting that neither Jon nor Waymar slept under Craster's roof, ate his food or seemed to accept his guest right. I am not sure what it might mean, but I think it's important.
One thing that has always struck me in Jon's dream where he wears armor made of black ice, is the comment about "red mist". If Jon is truly killing the Other's, or their dead, they will not have red blood, so why the red mist in the air? The only other time "red mist" is used in the story is to describe the Hound shedding the blood of Sansa's attacker's in the riot in King's Landing. The wight's will not have red blood, so is this "red mist" of Jon's something else? It reminds me of Eddard's "red rage", perhaps a berserker type of moment. Or Jon isn't killing wight's in his dream!
I would also speculate that Gared might have been saved by making a fire to protect himself. He wanted to earlier in the chapter, and I think that is exactly what he did, which protected himself from the wights, if not the Other's, as well!
Also, if the Other's want Jon, why didn't they seek him out the whole time he was north of the wall? They would have had opportunity and time. Even if they thought he was at the Fist, they sent no Other's, only wights. It is possible that Jon is not exactly what they are seeking?
It will end how the story began I believe.. there will be a duel between Jon an the others leader or the "night king" in the show.. also Jon and waymar Royce looked similar and both had blood of the first men. Also it's been underlined alot about "the old way" and one on one combat. Also it would be sweet if long claw was actually left to mormont with instructions to pick Jon as his squire and give him "long claw" or DARK SISTER! They are both described as bastard swords that are as dark as smoke and the suspect pummel switch.. also it's made to stand out just how important those swords are to the houses.. so valuable tywin couldn't even buy one.. anyways good video man!👍 Grrm says the first book tells all if interpretated right and I think the prolog was very important an really the only solid glimpse into the others and what they want or are trying to achieve I CANT WAIT for winds of winter...👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌👌👌
Dark Sister went with Bloodraven/The Three eyed raven to his cave. Meera picks up the sword in the show as well as the books and George confirmed that Bloodraven took Dark Sister with him to the wall.
Dark Sister isn't a bastard sword. It is shorter and lighter than Blackfyre and therefore smaller still than a bastard sword. No woman could wield a sword that big. Besides, Meera has Dark Sister now.
@@TommyBombadillioWhy do you say no woman would be able to wield a bastard sword?
Even greatswords and zweihanders weighed less than 3kg. That's less than an AK-47 which have famously been put in the hands of poorly-nourished child soldiers around the world.
Also like. Brienne is right there in the books.
I very much enjoyed this...so much that I watched it twice, which i rarely do. There is a lot going on in the prologue..so much i missed my first two times around.
Excellent work. I thought all of the mysteries and trivia of this series had been revealed. I was wrong!
Great video first off, first time finding you. You got me thinking with this. Could the others have sort of set about their own downfall with their actions against Bonzeballs Waymar Royce? By trying to prevent prophecy sort of set prophecy in motion. The others did let the nights watchmen live, and that watchmen got executed in front of Jon.. and on the way back from that they find the Dire Wolves. In an indirect way they Others gave the tools needed to defeat them to the last hero.
Bro thats such a GRRM thing to do as well lool, but yeah if jon was the target then yes the others did kickstart their own demise.
Yay man!!So glad this is up!!!
Could Craster have ratted Waymars party to the Others because he knows dragonsteel is their BANE?He mistakes Waymars BLACK STEEL as Valyrian steel,so he must be a Stark...Craster wrecked his axe on Benjens party( like Hound in the show did on Wayward brotherhood)...Craster attacked Jon in the woods...he's probably got nocturnal vision like a cat by now. So like Gilly said our husband keeps us safe. The large amount of others may be due to them suspecting Waymar has dragonsteel...
Interesting idea Connie! So you think maybe Craster is bad at recognizing dragonsteel so his black steel comment hints to that. I'll bring that up during the stream.
@@JoeMagician I think Craster has sworn fealty to the Others,so he's their informer,and maybe they SEE what Craster sees,and he saw Waymars BLACK steel,and that's why possibly that number of others came after Waymar,because it was seen as dragonsteel, or reforged(be it poorly) Valyrian steel or a Westerosi attempt at reforging it,and that's why it broke. Will was going to take the broken parts back to wall,as you recall,but Waymar killed him.
The incomparable Joe Magician. A nice video of a comparison of Bran and the NK would be nice Joe. It's a bit different than your usual and more show material obviously, but I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter in this long night
I thought they were looking for the song of ice and fire, and possibly jon and now you are talking about that damn
Great breakdown joe
This was amazing! Thank you so mutch! ❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏
You're so welcome!
This is so good!
Fantastic work!!!!
Never has prolouge even to this daay made me want to carry on reading a book series like ASOAIF like this did and man was happy i did
ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE GRRM
and as for Ser Waymar Royce
I couldnt stand him untill gia infanously bad aas line DAMCE WUTH ME THEN" in my eyes he went from double zero to a triple hero!!Love your interpretation of this Joe Magician and this is what pulled me and made me subscribe to your channel. Alway great content Thakyou
Just came to listen after watching the related live cast! Excellent discussion. I will keep my eye out for the Three Witches of MacBeth podcast. I heard you reference that George incorporates related characters in A Dance with Dragons, but offhand I can’t think who they are in that book.
Love this channel !!
What song is used during this video ?
The song is Dark Times by Kevin MacLeod
I think you might have left a detail hanging, at least, I could not see where you linked back to it later. You wanted the viewer to take note that Craster does not mention Will at all, I could not figure out what the particular significance of that was, but I’m listening whilst working and I’m also dense :)
The point of that was how much Craster was zeroing in Waymar, how much attention was given to him over the other two. Will doesn't even warrant a mention, but he rattles off what Waymar was wearing, what he looked like, what his wives thought, where he slept.
He does speak about Gared also. Gared has a part also. I can’t find anything outside the first chapter for Will.
Great Video!
A popular theory and quite well executed in this particular case.
Other people have made videos on my theory? I came up with this one myself
@@JoeMagician In case it is fact it might merely be an appropriate and logical conclusion.
This was fantastic!
My theory from your Q&A with In Deep Geek - HOLY ****!!!!!!! You are absolutely right Joe and I can back you up. I had an epiphany that struck so hard watching this video that I stopped it half way through to run and verify something in "A Dance With Dragons". This blows my understanding of the story wide open but only because I realized you were wrong on one crucial point. Why the White Walkers are targeting Jon Snow specifically. They don't believe Jon is Azor Ahai reborn but in fact Jon is the only means in which Lightbringer can be reborn. There are several key points which back this up. The first is Jon himself. You talked about the similarities between Jon and Waymar at the start of the video. Their body types were described like a knife. Jon's eyes are grey which is the color of steel. Jon is a master swordsman and wields a Valyrian steel blade. He is unyielding in his honor and commitment to do the right thing. So many of his traits and characteristics could also describe a sword. The second point is what I had to verify in the book. When Jon is betrayed and stabbed he pulled the dagger out and described the wound as "smoking" due to the cold air. Now the correct term would be "steaming" so this was a deliberate choice by Martin. In "Fire and Blood" wounds to dragons are also described as "smoking" and I thought was a nod to Jon's assumed Targaryen heritage in the books. Now I know it's meant to be foreshadowing. In the prophecy it says that Azor Ahai reborn will pull Lightbringer from a burning fire. In a previous interview Martin described Beric Dondarion as a "fire wight". So if Jon is resurrected or has his body restored by Melissandra he would also be a "fire wight" or even "living fire" as Lightbringer is also described. This leads to me third point which changes the story the most in that the Azor Ahai legend itself doesn't make sense or is being misinterpreted. During the Long Night Azor Ahai and the living were powerless UNTIL Lightbringer was forged. Ergo Lightbringer was the most crucial element in defeating the White Walkers. They surely remember how they lost and intend to prevent it from happening again. Jon is the literal combination of Ice and Fire and magic from both bloodlines is likely required to recreate Lightbringer. He is also the only person to have it. Dany has dragons and other characters can lead armies but in the videos discussion Lightbringer is Jon having Valyrian steel at Hardhome. It changes the game. Remove him and it's over. In addition the legend is thousands of years old and is folklore at this point. The reality of a story like that would fit Tolkien not Martin. With the White Walkers access to a green seers ability, the Weirwood network, or just their own history would give them the truth. Also if they sleep for thousands of years then really how many generations for them has it been since the Long Night? The fourth point it that Melissandra can't interpret ****. Melissandra asks to Azor Ahai and is shown Jon Snow but she is unreliable in prophecy and likely being shown what's important without realizing it. Martin kept Lightbringer in the story and it would be within Melissandra's character to only see the sword as a way to identify Azor Ahai instead of something more important. After all the initial information came from or by way of her. It all totally fits. All the Azor Ahai vids I watched now seem irrelevant in my own head. Will one of these awesome channels or just anyone please tell me if I am wrong because all that literally rushed into me head in like 30 seconds so I haven't thought through all the pieces.
Interesting ideas! You may be onto something there. The relationship between Will and Waymar is one of brain and arm. The watchers and the fighter. So if Jon is Waymar, then Bran may be Will and wield his brother like a flaming sword!
I think this is brilliant!! I think you can expand this to a theory of what happened to Benjen Stark
Just found your Channel, congrats!
Great video! I think you nailed it!
This is a masterpiece, Joe.
I understood Craster saying that jon look like a stark like his way to say he look like a noble, as craster realistically don't know what a stark look like, when he has certainly met nobles serving in the night watch like Waymar Royce