Stealing Skins: the Bolton Secret - A Song of Ice and Fire - Game of Thrones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
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There's a reason for all the Bolton flaying in the story: it's not only horror and cruelty, but also the key to ancient magic which enabled the Boltons to rival the Starks for thousands of years. I will explain to you here in this brand spankin new Bolton theory, and yes this has to do with the Faceless Men.
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title image uses "Roose Bolton" by Bella Bergolts
The fact that Ramsay named his hounds after the girls he hunted gives new meaning to his eventual death by being mauled to death by his own hounds... these poor souls will receive revenge from beyond the grave.
He isn't going to die by dogs. Stannis has his number.
@robertphillips213 Stannis could feed him to the dogs 🤷🏻♂️ maybe that was one of the ideas George gave D&D who knows.
Didn’t happen in the books, and I doubt it would happen. He is still alive
@@saltedcaramel5976yet. Story ain’t over.
Ramsay will die like a b1tch
this format of making a short video about a theory you explained in one of the streams, while adding more evidence (w/ the help of the chat), might be great to bump the numbers of the channel. Hope to see more of these
a lot of people who can't watch the longer streams really appreciate it too because i'm generally grabbing the best parts of the streams and editing them down :)
@@DavidLightbringerthis exactly. Can I just say that you absolutely fucking BRING IT every time. Fuckin THANK YOU man for all you do.
@@DavidLightbringerI agree.
I love the big in-depth streams but these short tidbits are delightful.
A stream is an event I have to prepare for while I can take in one of these short videos during lunch.
@@gerardjagrooI often get distracted by chat during streams so having a debriefing after helps me process and is a good reminder for anything that went past me originally
THIS!! Preston really needs to be doing this as well, there’s so many theory explanations that get delved into on stream that are so worth their own video
You’re doing incredible service to the ASOIAF community, David. You’re going to get us through the Long Night.
This is totally the Long Night. I like that
@@ThommyofThennthat's how deep george really is. he's bringing his fiction into the real world
OMG and his name is Lightbringer too 😂😂
I love that we as a community have gotten to the point where "Bolt On" is a relatively well known and almost tame theory.
I think that your expansion of it here fits with the in-universe lore and magic systems much better than the original theory. This is more than plausible and I think it's likely. Great contribution to the fandom at large, Dave!
We've been waiting for the next book so long that we've all gone a bit mad, haven't we? At least it's been fun madness.
Everyone is secretly either Rhaegar or Ashara Dayne, and everyone is a horse.
Hot Pie has taken over Roose Boltons body, just to taste Wyman Manderly's pies.
That's what 12 years does to a mf
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 Hot Pie is a Food Changer. He possesses foods so that he can experience what's it like to be eaten. Real-life thing too, it's called Vore lol
"Bolt On" for a skinchanger theory name is silly. The procedure for replacing skin is a graft. House Grafton rules Gulltown, down in the Vale. The Graftons are explicitly described as of Andal origin in the Worldbook.
Are the Boltons really Andals?
After reading Skin Trade by GRRM years ago, I became convinced that the Boltons were skinning the Starks to steal their magic. You took that theory much farther with great evidence. Great video, LML!
The idea of the Boltons "breaking" someone in order the supplant their identity and control them is very thematically sound, as they've already done that with Theon and Jeyne. I definitely think there is something to this theory, great job as always
It still cracks me up that your Rhaegar has a better wig than the GOT Rhaegar.
I absolutely love that you gave Rhagear a place to live and that you put him to work, California isn't cheap lol.
It is something about the original Reek, who was always smelling bad. Even his blood smelld bad. Roose says that Ramsey's blood is bad and tainted.
"Tainted blood is ever treacherous, and Ramsay's nature was sly, greedy, and cruel. I count myself well rid of him. The trueborn sons my young wife has promised me would never have been safe while he lived."
-Roose Bolton writing to Edmure Tully
"His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so full of anger. Ramsay, though ... his tainted blood would poison even leeches, I fear."
-Roose Bolton to Theon Greyjoy
Was the original Reek also a Bolton bastard? Is there something rotten in the Bolton blood? Would Roose stink like that if he was not leached? Will Ramsey start smelling as well?
Was the original Reek wearing a dead man's skin already? Is that why he stank?
interesting questions, I haven't thought of that last one
Poor Domeric seemed like the first normal Bolton in thousands of years
Maybe they all suffer from a mental illness that has its roots in some type of physical illness having to do with blood.
"A widow brought the dried corpse of her husband, covered with a crust of silvered leaves; such remnants were believed to have great power, especially if the deceased had been a sorcerer, as this one had." - A Clash of Kings
Makes me think the remains of the Kings of Winter would be very powerful indeed. Or maybe a Targaryen in a cask of backbelly rum?
Along that vein, interestingly the Targaryens burn their dead.
Not Aemon....he went back to the town the Maesters called home....Old Town...in a cask of blackberry rum hmmm. Bet the Mage gets that cask....and maybe why all the kings of winter had to be buried in Winterfells vast Crypts....besides that with the iron swords on their laps...though they could just fear their dead rising...I think the Bolton and Stark rivalry is just wargs against normal humans...and they skinned the skin changers bc they treated them like animals....and maybe if you flay a warg the mind pain could kill their wolves....I think the connection to faceless men is ludicrous....Bolton's are just mean men....not magical at all. That's why they are so vicious...as a deterrent and for control. And most people are uncomfortable with torture....so if you gain a reputation like theirs you probably don't get messed with much. 😮
This theory also adds a new level of meaning to "a flayed man having no secrets".
😮😮😮
Ned to jory:Take Lady to the North,to WF. I'LL NOT HAVE THE QUEEN HAVING THIS PELT.
Jory:to the north? ALL THAT WAY?
Ned:Yes,all that way.
Love your theory, and for the first time, all your and Rhaegar’s ads. When Arya put on the girj’s face, she got her memories too, makes sense.
Reminds me of the Selkie myth. Selkies are seals that have magical skin. They are fully seals (not half human/half seal), but they shed their skin on land in order to dance on the shore in full human form. So human men will happen upon a seal skin and they will steal it, because without it, the woman cannot turn back into their true form, and therefore cannot return to the sea to live. The men steal their skin to keep them human. Imagine...
The Boltons steal a Stark woman to marry, the Stark woman slips into her wolf and can bring her wolf around to help her escape. Furthermore, she could probably even bring a bunch of wolves around. After all, you don't hang a giant wolf pack on a wall only to not use it, right? Wink, wink. She's "finding her skin" when her wolf comes around. There is also a story in which her children find her magical seal skin and return it to her, so she can be free again. Her "children" could be her wolf and either their magical brethren, or even could include regular wolves. A regular wolf could easily be considered a dire wolf's child, especially if they are pack mates. So, the Boltons have to "steal the skin" (find and kill the animal) in order to keep their women from having their animals, or their "children" to come and help. For that matter, the wolves that come to rescue them could be their actual children. Their Stark children.
I agree GRRM Is doing a lot with selkie and mermaid lore, specifically the older stuff you're referring to where capturing the skin is the way to imprison the mer-woman on land. Valkyries are actually swam maidens too and derive from this mythology, in part. George loves that kind of stuff
George's previous book makes this theory much stronger, out of all the house Bolton theorys this seems most likely.
Amazing video as usual.
The Wu-Tang intro is perfect. 😂
“I’ll fuckin’, yeah, I’ll fuckin’ tie you to a St. Andrew’s Cross and make you my sigil!”
And keep feeding you and feeding you and feeding you 😂
"Nah, i'll hunt your daughters through woods-- Name my dogs after your urchins!"
Just looked and there are actually a few posts on Reddit from 9 or 10 years ago which come to this conclusion based on "The Skin Trade" its an awesome theory, and probably 100% correct. Before knowing that George has used this technique before I figured it was likely true, but with the knowledge of "The Skin Trade" its definitely what the Boltons are doing. George loves to recycle ideas from his old stories (usually to great effect too).
that doesn't surprise me at all. It def popped out to me suddenly and then felt super obvious, and I had never read Skin Trade - people brought that up to me in the comments. All good theories should kind of feel like this, obvious once you see them
You've been seriously churning out videos recently. I still got that Faegon shit to listen to, and now this. Gonna be good for my 12 hour flight tomorrow. Time to download. Thanks, mate. Love this Botton shit you were talking about before, too. I like this one
This is one of those theories that just makes sense to me. It gives lore and a reason to something we already know happens. Well done Dave!
The top tier content David brings every single time!!! 🤯
You're constantly being quoted in my household, Mr. Lightbringer! Everytime I gonna talk asoiaf with my partner I start with "According to David's theory..." hahaha You're doing the old gods (and the new) work! 💫
🤣🤌
Mhhm, i kind of think the torture thing is trying to make the skinchanger retreat into his animal of choice, freeing that person up for "posession" if you so will.
Then its a waiting game, until the Skinchanger melts fully with his animal, loosing himself into it. Naming the animal afterwards of their human name, is just another form of torture, maybe even part of the source of their power.
Maybe what you mean with "torturing magic" is just another way of sacrificing. Just instead children of the forest, its the magically gifted Skinchangers, using their own ability through a weird link of pain.
I just watched another one of your videos where you mentioned that you don't go for "low hanging fruit" in your theory videos. I really hope you continue to do more videos like this one, and I hope you include even the low hanging fruit :) I'm brand new to the series and I feel like I'm playing catch-up with all the theories haha I really like the Stone Starks Theory, and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts!
I am trying to get better about that for sure, and welcome to the channel!
I agree with all praise for Lightbringer, though i must point out that the low hanging fruit have long since been snatched down and gobbled up, as it were. The seeds of those fruit have been shat out, and sprouted into new fruit trees of their own. Indeed, even THOSE trees have borne fruit, and THAT fruit has been harvested and consumed like so many slices of Frey pie.
This winter has been long, LONG. L O N G.
But hope remains as long as we can STILL find new and interesting theories and topics to discuss and analyze. I don't think we'll ever finish.
And while new written words are very rare, we still learn valuable lessons from HoTD.
Wait a minute. Where the fuck IS HotD? It's been YEARS.
Wtf Don't they know? Don't they know we need more?
Relatively new, last few weeks, to the channel but boy oh boy is there a ton of wildly interesting and amazingly deep videos explaining nearly everything.
Lightbringer, you are truly great at what you do. The threads of evidence you weave into a majestic tapestry for us on stream is truly a sight to behold
Dude, beware. I have become a total mythology junkie. For all religions. You should see me watching horror movies, these days. I'm figuring them out on 5 minutes. It's kind of annoying. What would Christians call it? Discernment, I think. I feel like Oden hanging on his magical tree to understand the secret of the runes.
Translating streams to short produced videos is a great idea!
The one thing that I felt was missing was your passage readings. A reading of the Verimir passage you mentioned would have gone the extra mile.
I honestly hadn't thought about body memory when I thought about the Bolton family and their Flaying. It would make sense considering what we have seen in the rest of the series. It adds an extra, creepy layer to this Opportunistic and Sadistic House.
The Bolt On Theory: I honestly love the theory but I don't think it will end up being right. It's just a fun thought experiment for me.
the piece of Theon being the prince of winterfell when he was tortured by ramsay solidified it for me
🎶 AWoo-ooooo, wear-wolves of Bolton! 🎶
Back in the 1980s through to today George Martin was editor of the Wild Card series. Characters that he helped create were the Jumpers, including a Joffrey prototype named Blaise, who has powers like what you describe.
The Bolt-on theory has heavy Lovecraft vibes going on. In The Thing on the Doorstep dark magician and Deep One fancier Ephraim Waite inhabits the body of his daughter, Asenath, who also happens to be a Deep One hybrid. It's implied that he's been doing this for generations.
So, reading the books i always had it in my mind that the Boltons weren't vampires or anything but were jealous of the skinchanging wargs.
I felt like they were experimenting and trying to get that power but never successful. Something similar to how the Targaryen were obsessed with hatching the dragons.
Good stuff Dave saw the Livestream but this is still an enjoyable one theory sized video.
One kinda positive thing I'm noticing about the Long Night of waiting for TWoW. It's awesome to see so many fans reading grrms earlier short stories and novels. I've only read a handful of his other works but I got some great reccomendations here
Yes! There are so many good ones. I think there are clues to Asoisaf in each and every one as well. It makes it a treasure hunt as well!
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 or like when you read his old stuff and see a peculiar name that is later used again in ASoIaF. It really is a treasure hunt! (And of course disaster hunting)
Great video. So I actually listened to the Skin Trade after this stream and there are a couple things I wanna mention. First there is a twisted father son dynamic in that story with an old money family of werewolves. The son doesn't have the gift and he is the one doing the skinning. In the climate scene, these characters are in the families old house in the forest where the son keeps the skins. There is a criclular room with mirrors on all the walls. He fights with one of the main characters and the blood gets on one of the mirrors. Things get weird, the moonlight makes the mirrors seem to shimmer like silver fog, and the seem like gates and there is a silvery shade within the mirrors, moving through them who is The Skinner. This sounds very much like a Weirwood Net type sequence when you listen to it and I think The Skinner would be like Great Other/Night's King inside looking to body snatch.
Honestly with everything you said in the video and Bolt On in mind, I'm almost certain you're right about Jon getting body snatched by the Night King.
The last bit of the book has the father give a speech that evokes the white wolf idea (can't remember specifically because it's been a minute.)
If you can, I'd highly recommend checking out the last chunk of the book the whole thing is like 4 hours. Regardless I think it really backs up your ideas.
Absolutely fascinating,
I always thought there was more to them,
I thought it was like a subtle nod to Vampires & werewolves never getting on even when they are allied, but this makes it all seem more real
Your videos and streams carry me through my long shifts thank you homie
Great video Dave, love the condensed format
Pretty out there but it would be chilling if there was a Stark in history who was actually a Bolton the whole time inhabiting their mind and making decisions for the North
I just re watched the Disputed Lands Dothraki Sea and Mazemakers videos. Definitely agree some of this stuff goes back to ancient times eg. Arya being blinded in the house of black and white to open her 3rd eye and Dany in the maze in the house of dust etc. Boltons flaying, faceless men changing faces, skinchangers well skinchanging! GRRM has it all connected way back when.
Dope vid Dave, thanks for addressing my Bloodraven question during the fAegon stream 😁👊
I think we need to make A song of ice and fire historian a real job and David is at the top of that list. I love all of these videos.
Watching like you requested on your last stream!
You're the best!
I only just finished the intro but already very satisfied. Excellent content as always
I love this! I believe you're right. This is refreshing, a very different perspective. I've never heard this train of thought before.
You deserve so so so many more views. Love the content! See you in the next live stream!
A great summary!
Btw. InDeepGeek recently made a character view of the Boltons.
Whether it’s coincidence or you two have a syncing thing going on the timing has been marvellous. Deep dives and wranglings from two competent content creators is sweet.
I love your videos so much. Also this one straight up gave me chills, the idea that there is a method to the Boltons’ madness. Background music was real creepy too. Loved it.
Posting this during Halloween could not have been just a coincidence 😂Great way to sum up a stream, wonderful work as always!
Yep, loved this format - supplements both your live streams and your presentation videos nicely. Also acts as a bridge between them. Love the ambient eerie music too. Excellent work David.
Awesome video man. I for one absolutely love your retinue of ironborn videos.
The waif Arya meets in house of black and white looks a lot younger than she is. They are using some magical powers and potions other than just changing faces. Ross is said to look ageless.
Fuckin GREAT Halloween content!
Thank you David Lightbringer for your excellent work
convincing evidence put together in a nice 20min video. i think this format will not only help you bump the numbers of your channel but is also a good way of us long time viewers to refresh our memories on some of the theories. thanks lml! happy halloween
Awesome theory here. Makes sense.
Loved the Rhaegar bit in the beginning. "Here. Open your mail." LOL 😂
@David Lightbringer Hello! I found your channel recently and have really been enjoying your videos! I was wondering, who are your top five favorite POV characters and why? Are they the same as your favorite characters in the series? If not, I’d also like to know your top five overall favorite characters and why.
i dont have time for 5 but i will tell u that Dany is my fav, because she's a revolutionary. I insert myself as Marwin or someone like that, I identify with Sam and Jon and Dany and sometimes Brienne and Sansa. I grew up in oppressive / mildly abusive religious environments so I relate to not being able to say certain things or not fitting in to the typecasts
The torture sequence on 36 chambers and ASOIAF is the crossover episode I didn’t know I needed
beware the Umbers and their spiked bat
Brilliant and gruesome theory. Love it. Perfectly in theme with Halloween. Thanks David. Have an Epic Day.
An upload on my favorite holiday let’s go
excellent listening for Halloween! Thank you, and it's always nice to see Reading Rhaegar.
(any chance of him getting a spinoff series, maybe just telling us about famous or infamous books of Westeros? I just love to hear him talk.)
I was expecting the next Iron Born video but this is a great substitute. Great vid LML!
I seldomly have anything to say online. But I feel like I need to spread the good word of the lightbringer. Awesome stuff! Wish I had found ur channel while the show was still going!
we'll be doing post game lives after every HotD episode
@@DavidLightbringer 😍
This is the perfect video to watch on this special day we call Halloween. Thank you for all of the amazing content xoxoxo 😊
You've been on a role with videos and theories recently! Keep it up you're awesome
Almost 100,000 Subscribers! I remember being here when you had less than 10,000!! Love seeing the growth... love ya brother keep up the great work
Somehow I keep forgetting that the Boltons are interesting, probably because I watched the TV show before I read the books, idk. Thank you for reigniting my flame of curiosity for this house. (GibiLynx's Ramsay fanart is cool so thanks for exposing me to it)
They did the Boltons dirty in the show by giving Ramsay too much screen time as the Big Bad, when I thought he was the least interesting of that family. He was just a garden variety sadist, albeit with more power than most. Roose is the really interesting one because he's intelligent and mysterious, as are the Boltons who went before him.
@@thing_under_the_stairsfocusing on the wrong things was a not insignificant part to the show's downfall. The whole "torture p*rn" thing. Yes, the books are extremely violent and disturbing but it's portrayed in a more sad tone rather than delighting in it
@@ThommyofThenn Absolutely. I think that far too many people don't understand that GRRM's a pacifist, and that one of the themes of ASOIAF is that war is usually pointless, and it hurts everybody it touches. Whereas a large number of fans, many of whom seem to be of the "show only" or "show mainly" variety, are into it specifically for the violence and brutality. Talk about missing the point.
@@thing_under_the_stairs thank you for bringing up the pacifist element of his work. The series is so much more tragic when you look at it from an angle of abhorring violence. I think Maester Luewin was a bit of a mouthpiece in the end of ACoK. When they talk about the recent chaos in the North he says something to the effect of "Folly...such mad folly, neighbor against neighbor"
I love the Bolton theories glad to see this video!
I've been loving your commercials with Rhaegar. They are brilliant!
thx for the vid, excellent as always, and jesus your cereal advertising is soo amazing ^^ I seem to be on the wrong continent to try it but really hope it works out for you !
Always a great video💚 always fun to see reading Rhaegar 👏awesome video on the Boltons!
P.S. The Rhaegar ad was hilarious! I actually watched the whole thing
Thank you David and Rhaegar for an amazing theory video! The best!
Glad you did this. I listen a ton on my commute to work and hope you’re very successful. Boost those algorithms.
I was about to scream "SKIN TRADE" right before you mentioned it 😂
Man, that's actually one of the coolest theories about the magic in the universe of Ice and Fire ❤
The Boltons are truly a creepy house. Thanks for the video!
Keep up the great work david loving your content and presentation.
Praise garth 💚
The same concept with werewolf skins, appears in another GRRM short-story, "In the lost lands".
It's a move in the making as well.
Love this video format. priops to magic spoon for helping us along the way. etc , alfoithm stronk
Spoons are great in general, but the magic variety is even better. Yay cereal
great theory! makes perfect sense to me.
LOL, love the Wu-Tang comparison & reference! Also the shorter format is cool for when I don't have time to watch an iceberg.
I love how even your ads are fun to watch 😂
ooooh! early morning pre-work mythology. fancy! so thankful to see rhaegar well fed. happy samhain!
Lol that Wu Tang reference at the beginning was hilarious. Great video man, thanks
you can't quote any of the actual lines so I was trying to do something funny with it 😁
Before i kinda just thought they were gross, but now I know the cool magical lore and bolt on theory, the boltons are much more interesting villains.
LML - My glory years were in the 90’s as well!!! Keep the references coming!! WU TANG FOR LIFE!!!!!
You did this video flawlessly... And i must say the art for the Bolton's is on par with the subject, kinda wish now they looked like this... Something a little more Abhuman. Bordering that fine line.
Man, you see so many things that just fly right over my head! This makes perfect sense! ❤️🤘
Wonder if those old Stark skins are still somewhere in the Dreadfort. And if Roose has any idea how to use them.
That skinchanger magic is certainly OP. Maybe a better explanation of how the First Men resisted the Andals. Freaky nature magic > Steel ,eh?
Think that you’re on to something with this. Nice format good length of video I haven’t got 3 hours to sit through a livestream
yep I get it
Thank for the great content as always.
I really love the creepy music you use in some of your theory videos.
I also like this theory as it gives a possible new meaning to Vaymyr's chapter. Alot of people believe we are only given this chapter to show all of the horrible things a warg can do, mostly to relate it to Bran going into Hodor and it being an abomination which could foreshadow Bran turning dark. I'm open to all theories because many are so well thought out with interesting connections. Great video!
I was already sold on this theory during the live stream. Now even more ❤️
Ironic that the original Bolt-on theory posted to reddit a decade ago was that Boltons were using faceless men magic to live on through their children by stealing their faces. It was changed to the Bolton Skinchanger theory to explain the immortality aspect. The original Bolton would need to be powerful enough to take over not just a human, but a human with skinchanging abilities to to be able to continue past the second life (or third or 300th life) which explains focusing on their children. Benefit of that theory is you get Werewolves (Starks) versus Vampires (Boltons).
The theory that a person that steals the skin of a skinchanger and can use their magic to replicate this removes the need for the son to be a skinchanger. That Roose could still be a consciousness that's hundreds or thousands of years old can still stands.
LML can you please do a series recap of the books by character and timeline? Pretty please, it's been so long since the books...I can't go through them a second time...Thank you. Love your work.
not a bad idea actually
yes, The Skin Trade, amazing story, i was thinking of that just before u mentioned it dude
I'm enjoying your channel!
Do you hold any hope we will eventually get to read Winds of Winter??
Hey David- I love the channel! Just wondering if there's anyway when you're speaking you could mute the sound effects? I'm hard of hearing, it makes it difficult to make out what you're saying. If not totally cool, just thought I'd ask. The subtitles are usually pretty good but sometimes they're giving... "patchface" vibes. 🤭
Big ups to the creative and fun ad reads