If you’re willing to spend $600 on a keyboard, how do you figure out what switches you like? Seems like it would cost as much to buy samples of them all as the keyboard itself.
Great Question! You can buy key switch samplers that let you get a sense of what the different switches feel like under a key cap. This is a Cherry MX example: www.amazon.ca/Max-Keyboard-Mechanical-Keyboards-keyswtich/dp/B07ZK6LKZL
getting a cheap board that is hotswap is a good way to experiment with switches - usually people figure out the kind of switch they like (linear, tactile, clicky, etc.) and eventually find the specific switch they like. It's an easy hobby to spend a lot of money 🤣
As a keyboard guy the BEST keyboard is the one you enjoy, and if you couldn't care less, the one you just use and don't think about. For a lot of people that's the keyboard they already have. For some (like me) custom builds scratched the itch. Ergonomics like typing angle and front height are huge, but if you're chill with what you have you've already won.
Except that's not how injuries happen with bad ergonomics. You may be "chill" with what you have, but keep using a bad setup for a year or two and and you may end up with a really bad situation that could take many more years to undo, if you can at all.
Jonathan went from the **seemingly** average Apple News site regurgitator to a very insightful Apple critic to providing quality content for Apple users AND computer lovers using Apple products. Loving it! Keep up the good work!
Yeah, it's very unique content. A bit of information (how do different switches work?) and a few products showcased but no buying information, no laundry lists of specs features. Just curious engagement.
And because of that, we know Apple will never send them a single product... Not like they were sending anything to begin with anyway due to their affiliation with LMG.
@@TetraSky Does apple really send products to anyone other than for review purposes? Ive never seen a single apple sponsorship on youtube, even by the most diehard fanboys
I would say that the original Apple Extended Keyboard from 1987 with orange Alps switches is a better example of the best keyboard that Apple ever made. The AEK II that you used in the video (unless it's the very rare 1989 USA revision) will be using cream or white dampened Alps switches which feel mushier, the whites also feeling scratchier and of lower quality. I switched from a modern Apple Magic Keyboard to various Logitech mechanical offerings to a Keychron with browns to the AEK II with cream Alps (tried the whites and did not like them) to the original AEK with oranges and it's unquestionably the nicest typing experience I've ever had. I don't know how I survived without it for this long!
I'm on apple aluminium wired numpad keyboard (A1243) from 2007, still rocking it today (12 years later). Its great for coding and typing in general. I would consider buying a mechanical one only if its with flat switches since I don't like bulky keyboards.
What do you think of the low profile Logitech 915? They have butterfly style switches but it felt like the crispiest blue. Probably my fav Logitech product
Yeah, the butterfly keyboard was a nightmare in terms of usability because it won't stop malfunctioning. And it was divisive among users, with some liking or tolerating it but others (like me) hating it.
I feel like this video really drove home just how unique the artistic voice of this channel is. Watching Plouffe be interviewed was genuinely weird, but in a good way
Yeah, I actually prefer the artistic direction of this channel. It feels more nuanced somehow. LTT videos are kinda all the same these days, but whenever I see a Mac Address upload I get excited.
Yeah. The extra work really shows and excuses the gap between uploads. Must be doing well enough though as they're hiring/have hired more staff for the channel.
The lighting during that part when they are testing all the different keyboards in the middle of the empty Lab looks really nice, taking advantage of the sun coming through the windows was a great touch.
Mac Address has quickly become my favorite channel of LMG's. I'm probably a bit biased as a Mac user, but the things I like about it have little to do with the Mac itself. I like that even though the videos are usually about some sort of new gadget or tech, the tech feels adjacent to the story being told. Each video meanders a bit and feels a bit more contemplative and mature. Rather than just spewing off facts about keyboards, the information comes out organically, as if I'm speaking with some friends. I love the energy and informativeness of LMG's other channels, but Mac Address always makes me think about the human element behind technology in a way no other tech channel does. I also really love that there's just such variety in the locations these are shot at and how they're connected to the real world surrounding the hosts rather than only being on a set in the LMG offices. It's as beautiful to look at just as it is to watch the story unfold. Shout out to Jonathan and the rest of the crew that make these videos happen; I think they're really special.
Coming from an LTT primary this video was awesome. It showcased custom keyboards great and even ended up with the preferred keyboard and switch type not the normal opinion but was still a great primer on keyboards and discovering preferences even down to finding out you prefer Alps over MX style switches.
I started watching this channel before I ever owned a mac and found it to be nice to not have to worry about constant comparisons and boring complaints about what is lacking or missing. Most review channels and tech channels have a really bad habit about wanting to tear apart whatever they comment on. Some times just being a little informational and interesting is more than enough. Also this video was hilarious. They started out with saying that Mac users deserve a better keyboard but ended with just being happy to find one that sounded like the sims.
This video is actually an excellent primer on Keyboard knowledge. I've been using the same keyboard for ~20+ years because it's high quality and believed that buying a new one was the only realistic way to replace it. I'd still need to do a lot more research when this one finally fails (or starts to fail), but it's nice to have something to come back to reference the jargon that manufacturers and reviewers will probably mention... especially when it comes to switch-types.
there is a video on the "orange channel" that goes over typing on 20 different types of keyboards and keys. Also a trip to a best buy or Microcenter would let you get an idea from demo keyboards on what you like key switches.
No, it's really not. Keyboard trivia, maybe. In the one clip, he's got a keyboard with the back legs up, tilting the board towards him. really terrible ergonomics. NEVER DO THIS. There are a lot of things in this video that shouldn't be done. Contrary to what the guy said, it's not just a matter of choice and whatever you like. You're going to be typing a LOT for a long time. Receptive stress injuries suck.
@@godofbiscuitssf I might not be great ergonomically, but that doesn't mean it's bad, as long as it's not for hours a day. And if it is, the user will feel it's not great for hours a day, so they won't like it. The keyboard hobby is all about finding something you love. If it's uncomfortable for the amount of time you use it, you can find something you love more.
@@Mister0Eel In fact, "not great ergonomically" is exactly what it means to be bad. RSI can happen even if discomfort doesn't occur or the discomfort isn't proportional to the amount of injury that happens. That's why it's called *repetitive* stress injury. It's accumulative.
I like that they're introducing mec keyboards to modern mac people, I personally use a dygma raise with holy pandas and I like them a lot more than the switches that came with it, they were far to sensitive for my heavy handed and inaccurate typing. I would always miss click or double type with them, the pandas feel great and are a decent actuation force so I really appreciate them.
@@Convention_De_Geneve a series of tactile switces that are sometimes/often heralded as the best tactile ever, even though there's dispute over who makes the official one and quite the drama over it
I think one thing that could have been added to this video to help out our Mac friends is the wonderful world of programmable keyboards. Like that ortholinear keeb they showed when they walked through the warehouse, there are all kinds of custom and nonstandard layouts that you can just set up yourself. You can just change your layout to include a correctly placed command key if that's what you want.
I’m glad Matias is getting some love. I have the Tactile Pro and it is definitely the keyboard I keep coming back to. However, I did have issues once with it dying when i plugged it into a Thunderbolt 3 dock, luckily, Matias has excellent support and sent me a new keyboard.
I have a couple of keyboardio model 01s and the Mattias switches are the worst aspect of them. They’re incredibly failure-prone and I’ve had to replace pretty much all of them at this point. I am so glad that the model 100 switched to Cherry-compatible switches.
I have the tactile pro and it feels like it takes way too much force to press the keys, and the keys are too tall. I’d rather use an old apple wireless keyboard.
The production on these are great, the way you mix the BBC documentary style filmmaking while also adding your own view on the video makes it very entertaining to watch and makes me excited to see what the next video will be about
I recognized the Matias Laptop Pro because of the recent randomized computer build stream and even though it got picked it didn't make the cut because apparently it doesn't even support a wired non-bluetooth connection and both Linus and Alex were bashing on it for that and many other reasons
Yeah I bought one of those few years back and ended up quickly returning it because I didn't realize that it's bluetooth only. But I've been using a wired Matias tactile keyboard since then and I love it! Really great sound, and it's really compact; one of those 75% keyboards.
A cool thing I just learned about, because I got a mechanical keyboard from the thrift store is, you can change what the modifier keys do in macOS. So you can swap the key caps for the win & alt keys, and then assign them to what they should be in macos. So you’ll get a more traditional mac keyboard layout for your shortcuts.
@@phauschermauscher5943 I run a dual boot system with Mac for photo editing and general use, and Windows 11 for gaming every now and then. I have a Cooler Master SK622 and I couldn't be happier. It has both layouts, Mac and Windows ones, and you can change them on the fly through the press of a button. The keys are also imprinted with both options, so on the Windows key it says "option" underneath the logo and the Alt key has the command key ⌘. I didn't even know about this when I first got it so it was a happy surprise. It can also be used wired and with Bluetooth, and it's small so very portable too! If a 60% keyboard is enough for you, I definitely recommend it.
@@phauschermauscher5943 go in keyboard settings and find the modifier keys buttons. It lets you swap control, alt, super, and caps lock. You can even have multiple keys do the same thing and some functions get none, though I don’t know why you’d want to.
I acquired a Model M that was heading into the trash like 8 years ago. I cleaned it up and used it ever since. That thing is almost as old as me, and the microcontroller in there pulls so much power that the numlock light area gets warm after a few hours, but the key mechanism is just aweskme :D
The production and vibe from the way this video is shot are very homey. Lots of nice touches and the way the filmography was done to introduce Ploof was very cool. Kinda reminds me of when I would get the day off sick and watch daytime tv shows. Some nice memories. Not sure why but I thought of the gadget show on channel 4 about 10 years ago.
So far my favorite keyboard to use with my Mac is the Logitech MX Keys. Not mechanical but when knocking out a dozen or so pages for an assignment it has been great to use.
One point I always make to my friends that say they don’t like mechanical keyboards is that there’s a build for every taste possible to make it YOU enjoy it. If yours is working for you, that amazing but there’s hundreds of options and customizations you can do to make a build for you that make the qualities you like even better. Want soft feeling typings so you don’t get tired over time ? Go for gaskets mounts, linear light switches (or click if you commit too many mistakes). Like a more cushion feel ? Topres are great. My point is, there are parts for every conceivable taste, is just a matter of finding it.
hhkb has been my go-to on mac for years - even has the control key natively in the right spot without having to remap caps lock to control in the settings!
I feel like it would have been good to explicitly mention that you can invert the default placement of Cmd/Alt for IBM layout keyboards in Mac settings; I currently use my favorite mech board on Mac with that toggled and the Alt/WinKey keycaps switched so it's a bit more intuitive.
Despite using mostly macs and being a big consumer of LMG content, I wasn't particularly curious about this channel, but this video was very entertaining, and even like how even the pictures and editing is so different.
The keychron keyboards are excellent for the price and being to switch between mac and pc is pretty nice. I've been using one their full size keyboards for work for a while with my mac pro. I got mine with red switches rather than brown though.
Totally agree. Keychron keyboards are nice especially if you run bootcamp since you can switch from Mac to Windows mode. I'm not a fan of the Gateron switches though that they come with. I'd suggest swapping them out with lubed Glorious Pandas.
@@smittyst0ic just get the barebone keychron q series, i put in gateron ink black v2's and some pbtfans keycaps and they're my daily driver for my mac setup.
I'm a big fan of Keychron keyboards if you want a decent entry point into custom mechanical keyboards, they offer a wide range of options from the purchase, and most of their models feature hot-swappable keyswitches so you can change them out if you want to try something different.
I don't own a single thing made by Apple and never have. I do, however, watch every single video on this channel just because of Jonathans way of presenting. No other channel on LMG has this kind of almost personal tone and I'm all here for it!
I like the new magic keyboards that are built in to the new 14-inch and 16-inch MBP, but I use a mechanical cherry MX Green keyboard at home because I like the resistance and tactile feel.
f you like the Magic Keyboard but want a longer travel, I highly recommend checking out the Gazzew U4 Silent Tactiles. They're the ultimate "D-shaped bump", they have literally no post-bump travel and they give you loads of resistance all the way through the stroke, from the beginning until the very end. It gives you the exact same satisfying rounded tactility as a Magic Keyboard/membrane keyboard, but with way more travel than the former and barely any mushiness compared to the latter (even though they're "silent" switches, they have barely any of the negatives of more mainstream silent switches). After years of using (and quite liking!) the "feel" of good laptop scissor switches but not wanting to drill my fingers into aluminium every time I want to type something out because of their abysmal travel, these switches have been an absolute godsend for me.
@@thebaker8637 what would you suggest for the least amount of key travel? I have tried a glass keyboard where there weren't any "keys" at all & I loved it except I still want a physical response that I hit a key. no one has came out with a flat "keyless" keyboard yet with haptics to let you know something has been pressed. I want the thinnest keyboard with the absolutely least, so small travel it doesnt even count as moment keyboard there is. & the case to be made out of some type as metal as plastic keyboards just feel cheap to me.
i was a mechanical keyboard hobbiest for a while… im done building your own, modifying, hacking, programming, it’s a lot i just wanted a keyboard that always worked, so i bought a filco and moved on with my life. when it breaks i’ll get another one.
Great video. I personally use the Keychron K2 with red switches on my Mac Studio. I used to have the original K1 because it fit the Space Gray look better, but the K2 still feels great and has a minimal look. Before that, I had a wireless backlit Matias keyboard, but it was really mushy
I also second Keychron! I rock a K5 with browns since I love that K1 low profile but also want a full proper numpad. The quality is great, wireless mechanical is the only way to live IMO, and they work seamlessly with both Mac and Windows systems. Highly recommend for anyone on the market!
If you want buckling springs, you can still get them. There's a company in the US called Unicomp that makes them using the original designs and tooling with PS/2 or USB interfaces. You can even get them in the good old 101-key layout without any Windows keys! If you want Macintosh keys, that might be possible via their customisation options, but I didn't look into those when I bought mine, as all I wanted was a classic beige 101 board.
@@mohawk4759Have you used one? I have an original 4704 board they were based off of, along with an F XT and some F ATs. One of his repro F77s lives on my desk. People have reported problems with them, I haven't had any that aren't just normal when dealing with shipping (or even packing up and moving) buckling spring boards. Capacitive buckling spring (Model F) is so much smoother and more consistent than membrane buckling spring (Model M).
The pre-butterfly keyboard was perfect, now I find the Magic Keyboard of the iPad great too, but i never liked the butterfly keyboard, neither the current ones.
I'm glad to see Matias get some coverage and love at last. I discovered that keyboard a while back. I own two of them at present (one hooked to my modern iMac, the other to a Power Mac G5). I type for a living and I absolutely love the feel of that keyboard, and it offers perfect Mac compatibility with media keys on top of that. Hands down the best Mac keyboard and the best typing experience for my money. My #2 choice would probably be a Unicomp (got a couple of those also). Don't really care for Cherry switches of any variety, though a red or red-style switch is nice on a gaming system and I do have that type of keyboard on my gaming PC.
I'm soooo happy to see that my personal favorite keyboards got featured. I'm currently using the tactile pro as my gaming keyboard and using the original ADB keyboard (that came with the Apple IIGS) for all of my non-gaming needs using an ADB to USB adapter. After seeing several keyboard round ups from LTT I was always sadden that the Model M got praise but little is said about the Alp Apple keyboards. Great job all around because in my mind an AEKII will always out class the IBM Model M and this is coming from a PC user.
Long live Alps and Matias. LTT never came across to me as a particularly informed channel on keyboards. It isn't their focus. The Model F is way better than the M anyway, easily competing with complicated Alps. When I first tried the Model M I just went back to Cherry MX blues. Maybe not a choice I would make today, but the M is still really stiff, pretty inconsistent unless the plastic rivets in the place are in good shape, and definitely not as smooth as an F.
@@xb0xisbetter you see, I've tried both Model F and M. As well as Cherry MX Blues. And I've felt both the Model F and M (at least for me) are a bit clunky for my liking. And the actuation point on the Cherry MX was a bit light for me. And I've felt I can get my fastest typing speed on the Apple IIGS keyboard. Those have Alps Electric switches with a very smooth linear feel. With the Apple Extended Keyboard II being a personal favorite for an all rounder keyboard since it's better suited for when I'm gaming.
@@jaydeniemuth9366 I don't even like MX anymore, the Model M was just mediocre enough that I went back to them when I hadn't tried anything else yet. Model F would be amongst the last boards I would call clunky myself, but maybe you tried one with really screwed up springs that the owner didn't know how to tune or replace. Apple IIGS had two different tactile Alps variants (salmon and orange) and an SMK variant (also great, although I haven't tried their tactiles). AEK II had salmon, damepened cream, dampened white Alps or Mitsumi switches. There were no linear variants of either board. Which have you used of those? I prefer linears for gaming and since linears are linears. I still just use an old K70 with MX reds for now. I much prefer clicky Alps like SKCM blue or white for everything else, although their tactiles are better than any modern tactiles as well. I have an AEK II with damepend cream switches but it needs a thorough leaning and probably a wax of the sliders to smooth them out again.
I have both an old Apple Extended II keyboard (that I bought reconditioned off of eBay) and a new Matias Tactile keyboard that I just plugged in for a writing contest. Love them both.
Finally a new video! Please do more. Also, I like the keyboards from around the 2010 era for macs, which used the AA batteries. The felt nice to type on, but their construction wasn't 100%.
Loved this video! I really need to try and watch some of Ploufs streams about keyboards, he seems like a wealth of knowledge! Glad you found your Sims keyboard lol
This video makes me want Jonathan and Plouffe together all the time. Like showing one another a thing they like. It was great. Like the little bits in the monitor on short circuit with plouffe and J showing up.
The Sims board was also clearly an alps board, that's why it sounds like the Sims. Most generic keyboard sounds in sound libraries are alps. That's why they're so iconic.
When you say mechanical keyboard for Macs, my very first thought was Matias, so I'm glad they got a mention! My main keyboard at home is a Unicomp PC 122 (the fact Nic brushed buckling springs aside so hastily insults me), but as a more portable option I also have a Matias Quiet Pro and... it’s really weird. The dampening of the tactile switch varies wildly based on how and where you strike the switch. Hit it wrong and get the maximum dampening, and the switch feels like a glorified rubber dome. Bypass the dampening and the switch turns into easily the best tactile switch I've ever had the joy of trying out. Also Nic really needs to be introduced to Chyrosran22 and his collection of ALPS switches. I'm sure he'll find something he loves (ALPS made a MASSIVE variety of switches with tons of different feels) Also, these cost an arm and a leg, but if yoh want the ALPS clicky switch experience in an MX-compatible package, get the ZealPC Clickiez. Dunno about others, but to me they're my favourite switch, barely beating buckling springs
Ngl, I still hate and will never understand linear switches. The vocal portion of the custom keyboard community these past few years seems to exclusively worship linears and only cares abut how key presses sound half the time while typing feel is sidelined and tactile switches are persecuted against. Thanks for not just regurgitating whatever Plouffe says and actually keeping and forming your own opinion, Jonathan.
Well, most of the community still use row-staggered keyboards which are awful in terms of ergonomics, so there's no surprise there. Light linears are fine in my opinion, and actually quite fun in tiny keyboards that require lots of chording, but I'm pretty sold on sticking with tactiles for now.
I don't like extra keyboards with my Mac because once you use it at your desk, and walk off with your MacBook, you have to re-adjust. if you use a Magic Keyboard or other similar style keyboard (eg the one Satechi sells), you can keep up to speed without that adjustment period
Honestly, after a certain point it’s negligible. I’m constantly switching between my Windows Desktop and my MacBook Pro and it takes no time to adjust going from an extended full size w/macros to the Mac keyboard
8:52 "Apple users have a bit of history of good keyboards..." As someone who appreciates a quality mechanical keyboard the reaction to that statement was absolutely PERFECT!!!
@@sm-zt4ut I'm getting about 2 to 3 months between charges with no rgb. I change my macros often so the 20 mineets of charge through the data synk cable means I really have too charge it. On the highest rgb I think I got about a week out of it. white nonstop just as a trial. But I like pbt keycaps so shine through isn't I use or really need.
@@Count_Rugan What kind of macros can you set up on the current Air (specifically with macOS)? I'm a novice to this world of keyboards - was looking at getting the Air75 but then saw there's a new generation coming out late 22/early 23 which will support multiple layers. I also heard the Nuphy software is Windows only right now, but the new one will offer better OS support? So feels like I'd be better off waiting for the newer model as I've lasted this long..
@@sfrost007 Most of the macros i use change depending on what game I'm playing. Or for school, some often used code syntax. its always a personal thing. thankfully the nuphy air 75 has all the music shortcuts I would need. The software is getting a mac update soon. like within the next few weeks soon. check the discord for updates. I know nothing of the new model. i would much appreciate it if you showed me a link or what to look up to find more about it.
I know this isn't gonna be popular, but I've tried mechanical keyboards, various switches, and the like. The keyboard I keep coming back to is the default Magic Keyboard. It's just far more comfortable to me.
All I've ever wanted in a keyboard is Apple's small, wireless (non-"magic") keyboard, but with backlit keys and a wired connection. That's it. I love that keyboard.
Something every keyboard review skips over is the usability surrounding the typing experience. I bought a Keychron and the Nuphy when I was looking for a keyboard, and while I preferred many aspects of the Keychron, I kept the Nuphy because its wireless connectivity was significantly faster when waking my computer from sleep. On the Keychron I would hit a key to wake the computer up, then wait 20-30s, often having to hit more keys, just to get everything connected and awake before I could type in my password. The Nuphy is almost instantaneous (not quite as fast as a magic keyboard), so that's what I use, even though it was my second choice in many other areas
I have that same Matias keyboard at my office... it feels and sounds awesome but it's actually rather loud. If you're in a shared space or close to others, it may be too loud, tbh. Very comfortable and one my favorite keyboards I've used.
I’m a keyboard guy and picked up the Nuphy Air75 last year as a light thin wireless mechanical that I could throw in my backpack for work. It’s quiet enough (brown switches) for the office and a huge leap over the standard issue office garbage. It doesn’t compare to my GMMK Pro at home or my Ducky Mini, but both are significantly louder and heavier (and above all, not wireless). Great video overall, would love to see Apple take their own try at a mechanical experience
Funny story, the first time I saw Jonathan was about a year ago on a video review of the NuPhy 75 keyboard that Nick mentions in this video. I bought it after watching the review and still use it today. Jonathan also mentioned it had google colors in that video, so A+ for consistency.
Plouffe is...nuts! But it's a good type of nuts, and this is the first time I've seen any real video on getting a better keyboard for my Mac. Going custom may really be the only way to get a "perfect" keyboard. I'm going to start down this rabbit hole myself and may God have mercy on my soul (in other words my bank account!). Fantastic video!
I have both the Tactile Pro and Unicomp Ultra Classic, and love both, but the latter sounds more Sims-y. However, it seems like the Mac version of the Unicomp is currently unavailable.
Actually the magic keyboard has one great benefit. MUSCLE MEMORY. You can switch effortlessly from desktop to laptop, and all your keys will be in the exact same spot. It also has the widest possible range of international keyboard layouts. From a practically point of view, it can actually be a solid choice. I sold my Filco once I started using Macs full time.
Nuphy air series is great because they have shorter switches so feel closer to what many are used to, but is also higher quality. Full win/mac support with a physical toggle switch too
If you find browns too mushy, there are lots of much more “thocky” tactiles out there, like the Glorious Pandas etc. I use those for my work board and the feedback feel is great.
Cherry Greens are horrendous tho, in case anyone asked. Even lubed they're best used for the capslock keys or something you don't want clicking all the time.
I like my replaceable low-profile Otemu Browns just fine, but then again that's basically almost the best you can get for a $25-$30 TKL mechanical keyboard. Maybe I'll upgrade to a $250-$350 custom keyboard one day and find my favorite combo of switch types. Don't know when but it's definitely on my bucketlist now 😁
@@handlemonium you can get a host of outemu and more importantly, akko CS switches for the cheap that will fit most cheap mech boards (almost all of them use outemu below $50 usd) Next build for work is gonna be $25 eyooso k620 with akko cs matcha green (50g linear) which are $13 for 45 on amazon With $15 pbt keycaps total build cost is about $65-70
I'm surprised they didn't give a little more attention to the Keychron lineup. It's the perfect gateway into the mechanical keyboard world for Mac users (and anyone else) because they support MacOS and Windows layouts out of the box. They even supply both a Windows, Ctrl, and Alt key to go with the Command, Option, Control keys. Plus they are super affordable.
Keychron doesn't really offer the best boards for the money anyway. Technically they do, but the 30 bucks shipping f** that up bigtime. A good ~70buck keyboard automatically becomes an expensive plastic case board with very limited upgradeability.
I like how custom keyboards get more coverage lately. People like to gatekeep their hobby, but I think it's win win for everyone if it becomes more mainstream!
I’ve spent a lot of time trying to make a silent keyboard so I can use it in my relatively small shared office. The reality is: nothing comes close to the Magic Keyboard when it comes to a decent, incredibly quiet, feel. (FYI using the boba u4t silent, and very happy with them)
Built an Odin V1 with Boba U4S and a Tiger 80 Lite with MX Zilents (frankenswitch of an Aliaz housing and a Cherry silent stem). Both of them feel and sound excellent in my opinion
I have a Keychron also, had it two years now. Can’t recommend it enough. I got the compact layout that still included the 10key. The fit on my desk is amazing and it’s not a behemoth. Great keyboard.
I'm a fan of the magic keyboard and scissor/butterfly switches in general. Shorter travel is the main selling point for me, and also like that they are usually quieter
You'd be amazed at silent switches like the Durock Dolphin, they're freakishly quiet, certainly quieter than even the Magic Keyboard. However, I've yet to find a low profile switch that's silent, so the Magic Keyboard's got it beat on that.
@@bawbsmith I really wanna get my hands on some solid cheap silent switches one day. But I've got a set of Gateron Cap's in the cupboard. But a silent set for about 30c per switch or less, I'd be open for recommendations.
The Unicomp model M is still being made and is the closest to the sims keyboard as mentioned in the video. Linus also did a video on it years ago so I know the office has one
It really seems like the other guy just despised buckling springs from the discussion at the start. Which is so odd especially given the sound request. Then he gave so many quiet keyboards to try?? Why?
@@kaitlyn__L True, I think the team is full of some very particular personalities. I mean it’s not even a bad thing to have preferences, but some people get kind of unreasonable about not letting others have their own personal tastes.
@@ghost-user559 sure, saying “these are my favourites” is fine if clearly marked, but when the host clearly asked for a loud clicky keyboard… making 50-75% of the options those kind would be reasonable! Instead it’s inverse.
@@kaitlyn__L Exactly. That’s the problem. I think sometimes tech people are a little tone deaf to others. It’s something you see a lot with computer people or gamers or mostly introverts. It’s not that they mean to, but sometimes they can be a little pushy or aloof.
I'm so glad you mentioned the matias tactile pro!!! I was super intrigued when i stumbled upon them on a local retailers' website a couple years ago. I used to have and enjoy one of the old Power Mac G4 keyboards that had similar switches before it finally broke around in 2015. I didn't wind up getting the matias tactilepro mini and have since kinda gone the way of Plouffe and gotten a DIY custom 60% mechanical keyboard, but now that it's back on my radar i'm definitely going to keep matias in mind when i'm thinking of getting a new keyboard.
I've been using a white Matias Tactile Pro FK302 keyboard for years. I think it's currently connected to it's 3rd Mac, having outlasted the previous two Macs I've owned. I also have a black Matias Tactile Pro FK302PC that I use with my Windows based systems.
I gotta say, I love my zealios switches. I know the rabbit hole is deep and there are probably better options nowadays, but these are fantastic. I just gotta find a better case and to make a layout I like better than what I've got now (the tokyo60). I think I want to go with something plastic for the case and to have a gasket mounted plate.
I used zealios 78gs for quite a while in one of my boards. Went through a phase using tangerines to feel out linears but I'm back in tactile gang and I'm using rebult harimaus now which I absolutely love in my QK75. If you can get your hands on some I'd suggest trying those since they're in the same ballpark but they have long pole stems and feel even more tactile than zelios!
@@SeraphimKnight Appreciate the advice, but I'm not planning on building or rebuilding anything in the foreseeable future. Got a new case I like better, and I think I'm just.. good. I do need to replace the stabs I think, but the sound is good, the feel is good. I might also try a custom layout that's been in my head for a while in this case, but other than that, I'm fine with this more or less being endgame. I don't really want a hobby from it, I just want a good KB, and I got it.
I also am a proud owner of zeal switches myself (fucking expensive switches, holy crap) though in my case they're a lot more similar to what the host of the video ended up with, as Clickiez have ALPS-like clickleaves, being a clone of an obscure MX/ALPS hybrid called Proworld switches. Funny btw how both Matias and Zeal are canadian and making clickleaf switches lol.
I remember the original imac keyboards (1999) looked so pretty and were so portable, but typed poorly. The previous ADB keyboard was "tons" better. Today I run a Pictek blue TKL. The price finally went up, but I got mine for $16 shipped. It's compact and very responsive.
the aekii was using damped switches, hence it seeming mushy. in general, old alps switches are considered superior to modern reproductions (especially the early skcm switches like blues, browns, and oranges). there are some modern custom keyboards that can use those, but they're fairly uncommon. wish plouffe had been a bit more open-minded lol
Nicholas should’ve called out the flimsiness of the Magic Keyboard and the low durability of rubber dome switches. A keyboard at that price should be tough and not skimp on materials. I suspect he kind of has bland mainstream MKB taste since he didn’t know Alps or the AEKs. Like the rest of that crowd he probably ignores non modern keyboards and prefers the thock everyone’s fawning over. A sound I find unnatural. IIRC there aren’t any pre 2010s keyboards that make thock noises, given its popularity with young people I suspect they’re trying to make their MKBs sound like the iOS keyboard. The Sims keyboard sounds nice actually, I hope Nicholas didn’t like it because the game audio was compressed. Funny that Jonathan accidentally stumbled upon what he was strongly desiring, they got pretty close with Matias (hope their reliability issues have been solved). To be frank I’m no audio expert so I could be wrong, but to me it sounds like the Sims are typing with a lo fi White or Blue Alps. You think I’m right? Alps keyboards are no longer made and go for a pretty penny. It’s true they’re ranked pretty high by MKB aficionados, you got to make sure the switches stay clean as they’re vulnerable to dust.
yeah while I do like that indeed there is some input from the Cherry-dominated modern mechanical scene, it's very appearant that Nicholas is closed minded and very Cherry-centric, with the obsession on low tactility (or high tactility but kinda awkward feeling and not as nice and crisp as vintage keyboards or clickiez switches or even box clickbar switches) switches with a clickless dense and muted (aka "thocky") sound profile. It's very appearant his main experience with switches at most is gonna be Holy Pandas and U4Ts rather than ALPS, and he's gonna preemptively shit on ALPS due to its differences and how clunky ALPS sounds. Maybe if Plouffe tried Clickiez or a nice blue alps or amber alps board he'd change his mind, or he may have too many thock brain worms to ever end up doing that. I mean, there's a lot he's missing out on more ALPS-inspired designs. I'm typing on Clickiez and while they were herrendously expensive, they were the exact tactile profile I was looking for years for, having been disappointed by competing designs like Cherry-inspired tactiles with bigger bumps and box switches, let alone the typical MX Blue and Brown fare. I wanted punchy and crisp tactility that makes the switch collapse at the actuation point, and I was getting closer with box switches and trying out blue alps at college, but box switches felt too linear mechanically still and blue alps didn't feel punchy enough. This feels just right, tho now I ordered a standalone amber alps switch to compare as well. The thing is Cherry design doesn't satisfy everyone that wants a mechanical keyboard, it sucks with tactility, and thus other designs would be a better choice, and Plouffe needs to be more open minded to that possibility. Not everyone wants Cherry.
The keyboard that came with my Performa 6400 had the last-gen Apple ADB keyboard and the home-row bump on that keyboard was on the D and K keys instead of the usual F and J keys. I actually liked that setup, as I've always found my middle fingers to have a better feel for that bump than my index fingers.
Dude, this video is awesome, like plain awesome, by far the best keyboard dedicated vid I've ever watched, it's not like I watch a lot of these, but still, you know I'm like a tech guy, and the dedication behind it is remarkable, cheers
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If you’re willing to spend $600 on a keyboard, how do you figure out what switches you like? Seems like it would cost as much to buy samples of them all as the keyboard itself.
Great Question! You can buy key switch samplers that let you get a sense of what the different switches feel like under a key cap.
This is a Cherry MX example: www.amazon.ca/Max-Keyboard-Mechanical-Keyboards-keyswtich/dp/B07ZK6LKZL
Well, damn, the channel themselves beat me to it, with the exact same link no less
getting a cheap board that is hotswap is a good way to experiment with switches - usually people figure out the kind of switch they like (linear, tactile, clicky, etc.) and eventually find the specific switch they like. It's an easy hobby to spend a lot of money 🤣
@@macaddress I bought this exact sampler and was very helpful!! Ended up with glorious pandas tho. But I love testers as a fidget toy :D
@@iamastrangeloop96 Every time I visit Plouffe's desk I'm fidgeting with his key switch samplers
As a keyboard guy the BEST keyboard is the one you enjoy, and if you couldn't care less, the one you just use and don't think about. For a lot of people that's the keyboard they already have. For some (like me) custom builds scratched the itch. Ergonomics like typing angle and front height are huge, but if you're chill with what you have you've already won.
Except that's not how injuries happen with bad ergonomics. You may be "chill" with what you have, but keep using a bad setup for a year or two and and you may end up with a really bad situation that could take many more years to undo, if you can at all.
Preach!
I have fallen down the rabbit hole of thock (much further.. farther?.. than others). I have yet to find true keyboard happiness
I do care about my keyboard. I just like the Magic Keyboard
that's how it is with peripherals.
it's not the most top of the line stuff,
it's the stuff you like/are happy with the most.
Jonathan went from the **seemingly** average Apple News site regurgitator to a very insightful Apple critic to providing quality content for Apple users AND computer lovers using Apple products. Loving it! Keep up the good work!
Yeah, it's very unique content. A bit of information (how do different switches work?) and a few products showcased but no buying information, no laundry lists of specs features. Just curious engagement.
I find he's very cinical. A lot of the videos are complaining about something. It's off putting
And because of that, we know Apple will never send them a single product... Not like they were sending anything to begin with anyway due to their affiliation with LMG.
I knowww right?
@@TetraSky Does apple really send products to anyone other than for review purposes? Ive never seen a single apple sponsorship on youtube, even by the most diehard fanboys
I would say that the original Apple Extended Keyboard from 1987 with orange Alps switches is a better example of the best keyboard that Apple ever made. The AEK II that you used in the video (unless it's the very rare 1989 USA revision) will be using cream or white dampened Alps switches which feel mushier, the whites also feeling scratchier and of lower quality. I switched from a modern Apple Magic Keyboard to various Logitech mechanical offerings to a Keychron with browns to the AEK II with cream Alps (tried the whites and did not like them) to the original AEK with oranges and it's unquestionably the nicest typing experience I've ever had. I don't know how I survived without it for this long!
Holy shit, didn't expect freaking Zone comment in a LTT group channel
Zone is looking for a one handed keyboard
Fancy seeing you here. Didn’t know you were into keyboards
THIS! AEK II greatest keyboard ever made. How how I wish they were produced now!
I can’t believe the keyboard guy seems to have never heard of the AEK. Dude needs to watch some Chryosan22 videos and get up to date on vintage (heh)
The truth is, as long as it's not a butterfly keyboard, I will probably love it
I'm on the butterfly keyboard rn - considering getting the keychron k2
I'm on apple aluminium wired numpad keyboard (A1243) from 2007, still rocking it today (12 years later). Its great for coding and typing in general. I would consider buying a mechanical one only if its with flat switches since I don't like bulky keyboards.
@@helloukw I remember those. They look modern even to this day.
What do you think of the low profile Logitech 915? They have butterfly style switches but it felt like the crispiest blue. Probably my fav Logitech product
Yeah, the butterfly keyboard was a nightmare in terms of usability because it won't stop malfunctioning. And it was divisive among users, with some liking or tolerating it but others (like me) hating it.
I feel like this video really drove home just how unique the artistic voice of this channel is. Watching Plouffe be interviewed was genuinely weird, but in a good way
Yeah, I actually prefer the artistic direction of this channel. It feels more nuanced somehow. LTT videos are kinda all the same these days, but whenever I see a Mac Address upload I get excited.
Yeah, the tone is incredibly different and refreshing. I feel like I’m watching something Vox-esque
Yeah. The extra work really shows and excuses the gap between uploads. Must be doing well enough though as they're hiring/have hired more staff for the channel.
The lighting during that part when they are testing all the different keyboards in the middle of the empty Lab looks really nice, taking advantage of the sun coming through the windows was a great touch.
Mac Address has quickly become my favorite channel of LMG's. I'm probably a bit biased as a Mac user, but the things I like about it have little to do with the Mac itself. I like that even though the videos are usually about some sort of new gadget or tech, the tech feels adjacent to the story being told.
Each video meanders a bit and feels a bit more contemplative and mature. Rather than just spewing off facts about keyboards, the information comes out organically, as if I'm speaking with some friends. I love the energy and informativeness of LMG's other channels, but Mac Address always makes me think about the human element behind technology in a way no other tech channel does.
I also really love that there's just such variety in the locations these are shot at and how they're connected to the real world surrounding the hosts rather than only being on a set in the LMG offices. It's as beautiful to look at just as it is to watch the story unfold.
Shout out to Jonathan and the rest of the crew that make these videos happen; I think they're really special.
Coming from an LTT primary this video was awesome. It showcased custom keyboards great and even ended up with the preferred keyboard and switch type not the normal opinion but was still a great primer on keyboards and discovering preferences even down to finding out you prefer Alps over MX style switches.
Same great content.
I hate Apple and even I enjoy Mac Address for the very reasons you mentioned. All other LTT channels feel immature and goofy nowadays
As someone who barely uses any mac products I love this channel. Jonathan is fantastic.
I started watching this channel before I ever owned a mac and found it to be nice to not have to worry about constant comparisons and boring complaints about what is lacking or missing. Most review channels and tech channels have a really bad habit about wanting to tear apart whatever they comment on. Some times just being a little informational and interesting is more than enough.
Also this video was hilarious. They started out with saying that Mac users deserve a better keyboard but ended with just being happy to find one that sounded like the sims.
"Its not broken, its just a Cherry brown" accurate description lol
This video is actually an excellent primer on Keyboard knowledge. I've been using the same keyboard for ~20+ years because it's high quality and believed that buying a new one was the only realistic way to replace it. I'd still need to do a lot more research when this one finally fails (or starts to fail), but it's nice to have something to come back to reference the jargon that manufacturers and reviewers will probably mention... especially when it comes to switch-types.
wait the exact same one for 20+ years? or like the same model?
there is a video on the "orange channel" that goes over typing on 20 different types of keyboards and keys. Also a trip to a best buy or Microcenter would let you get an idea from demo keyboards on what you like key switches.
No, it's really not. Keyboard trivia, maybe. In the one clip, he's got a keyboard with the back legs up, tilting the board towards him. really terrible ergonomics. NEVER DO THIS. There are a lot of things in this video that shouldn't be done. Contrary to what the guy said, it's not just a matter of choice and whatever you like. You're going to be typing a LOT for a long time. Receptive stress injuries suck.
@@godofbiscuitssf I might not be great ergonomically, but that doesn't mean it's bad, as long as it's not for hours a day. And if it is, the user will feel it's not great for hours a day, so they won't like it.
The keyboard hobby is all about finding something you love. If it's uncomfortable for the amount of time you use it, you can find something you love more.
@@Mister0Eel In fact, "not great ergonomically" is exactly what it means to be bad. RSI can happen even if discomfort doesn't occur or the discomfort isn't proportional to the amount of injury that happens. That's why it's called *repetitive* stress injury. It's accumulative.
2:19 BAHAHAHAHA JONATHAN GOT KNOCKED OUT WITH A KEYBOARD AHAHAH. amazing foley, wasn't expecting this detail ahahah
I love the difference in shooting style for Mac AAddress, the camera work, grade and edit style has a very documentary / TV feel and I really dig it.
I like that they're introducing mec keyboards to modern mac people, I personally use a dygma raise with holy pandas and I like them a lot more than the switches that came with it, they were far to sensitive for my heavy handed and inaccurate typing. I would always miss click or double type with them, the pandas feel great and are a decent actuation force so I really appreciate them.
Dygma balls
Tf is a holy panda
Sounds like something out of a dreamworks movie
@@Convention_De_Geneve a series of tactile switces that are sometimes/often heralded as the best tactile ever, even though there's dispute over who makes the official one and quite the drama over it
@@ShaiyanHossain interesting, thanks!
I think one thing that could have been added to this video to help out our Mac friends is the wonderful world of programmable keyboards. Like that ortholinear keeb they showed when they walked through the warehouse, there are all kinds of custom and nonstandard layouts that you can just set up yourself. You can just change your layout to include a correctly placed command key if that's what you want.
I’m glad Matias is getting some love. I have the Tactile Pro and it is definitely the keyboard I keep coming back to. However, I did have issues once with it dying when i plugged it into a Thunderbolt 3 dock, luckily, Matias has excellent support and sent me a new keyboard.
I'm also a fan of that keyboard. It's what I settled on after trying a few different mechanical options.
My first keyboards were Alps switches. I might just need to get a Matias to get that nostalgia of the keyboard I had in college.
I have a Matias Tactile Pro and I love it!!!
I have a couple of keyboardio model 01s and the Mattias switches are the worst aspect of them. They’re incredibly failure-prone and I’ve had to replace pretty much all of them at this point. I am so glad that the model 100 switched to Cherry-compatible switches.
I have the tactile pro and it feels like it takes way too much force to press the keys, and the keys are too tall. I’d rather use an old apple wireless keyboard.
The production on these are great, the way you mix the BBC documentary style filmmaking while also adding your own view on the video makes it very entertaining to watch and makes me excited to see what the next video will be about
I recognized the Matias Laptop Pro because of the recent randomized computer build stream and even though it got picked it didn't make the cut because apparently it doesn't even support a wired non-bluetooth connection and both Linus and Alex were bashing on it for that and many other reasons
I know right!! When I heard the name and saw the box I was like "oh no, it's THAT keyboard!! 💀" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah I bought one of those few years back and ended up quickly returning it because I didn't realize that it's bluetooth only. But I've been using a wired Matias tactile keyboard since then and I love it! Really great sound, and it's really compact; one of those 75% keyboards.
"That's ortholinear"
"Like...teeth?" along with Jonathan's face had me rolling
I like the current keyboards. I just don’t like the Magic Mouse charging situation.
If only it supported magsafe
mac keyboards are so fragile
I can never adjust to the mouse as a laptop user. I just keep a trackpad at home and office
@@blacksta-r Literally have never had one break. Not even an iPad magic keyboard folio.
They’ve really got to fix the Magic Mouse.
I love how they zoomed in at 0:52 to confirm that he does not in fact use the LTT Screwdriver.
for real why doesn't he use it
A cool thing I just learned about, because I got a mechanical keyboard from the thrift store is, you can change what the modifier keys do in macOS. So you can swap the key caps for the win & alt keys, and then assign them to what they should be in macos. So you’ll get a more traditional mac keyboard layout for your shortcuts.
Could you explain me how you did that please? I have a Mac and a windows Layout on my keyboard, it’s annoying
@@phauschermauscher5943 I run a dual boot system with Mac for photo editing and general use, and Windows 11 for gaming every now and then. I have a Cooler Master SK622 and I couldn't be happier. It has both layouts, Mac and Windows ones, and you can change them on the fly through the press of a button. The keys are also imprinted with both options, so on the Windows key it says "option" underneath the logo and the Alt key has the command key ⌘. I didn't even know about this when I first got it so it was a happy surprise. It can also be used wired and with Bluetooth, and it's small so very portable too! If a 60% keyboard is enough for you, I definitely recommend it.
@@phauschermauscher5943 go in keyboard settings and find the modifier keys buttons. It lets you swap control, alt, super, and caps lock. You can even have multiple keys do the same thing and some functions get none, though I don’t know why you’d want to.
i want to see Plouffe and Chyrosran in the same room discussing keyboards. the click hater vs the click lord
I acquired a Model M that was heading into the trash like 8 years ago. I cleaned it up and used it ever since. That thing is almost as old as me, and the microcontroller in there pulls so much power that the numlock light area gets warm after a few hours, but the key mechanism is just aweskme :D
Very surprised to not see HHKB on here, they're super Mac friendly. Topre deserves some love.
The production quality outstanding as always
Macadress is the reference in video quality in all LMG. Love how carefully they are film, edit and script. Great job.
currently use a windows keyboard with tape over the windows symbols, works good
The production and vibe from the way this video is shot are very homey. Lots of nice touches and the way the filmography was done to introduce Ploof was very cool. Kinda reminds me of when I would get the day off sick and watch daytime tv shows. Some nice memories. Not sure why but I thought of the gadget show on channel 4 about 10 years ago.
So far my favorite keyboard to use with my Mac is the Logitech MX Keys. Not mechanical but when knocking out a dozen or so pages for an assignment it has been great to use.
One point I always make to my friends that say they don’t like mechanical keyboards is that there’s a build for every taste possible to make it YOU enjoy it. If yours is working for you, that amazing but there’s hundreds of options and customizations you can do to make a build for you that make the qualities you like even better. Want soft feeling typings so you don’t get tired over time ? Go for gaskets mounts, linear light switches (or click if you commit too many mistakes). Like a more cushion feel ? Topres are great. My point is, there are parts for every conceivable taste, is just a matter of finding it.
hhkb has been my go-to on mac for years - even has the control key natively in the right spot without having to remap caps lock to control in the settings!
I feel like it would have been good to explicitly mention that you can invert the default placement of Cmd/Alt for IBM layout keyboards in Mac settings; I currently use my favorite mech board on Mac with that toggled and the Alt/WinKey keycaps switched so it's a bit more intuitive.
Whereas I toggle my Mac keyboards to the more ergonomic Windows layout.
As someone who uses keyboard shortcuts a LOT, it's so much easier.
Despite using mostly macs and being a big consumer of LMG content, I wasn't particularly curious about this channel, but this video was very entertaining, and even like how even the pictures and editing is so different.
The keychron keyboards are excellent for the price and being to switch between mac and pc is pretty nice. I've been using one their full size keyboards for work for a while with my mac pro. I got mine with red switches rather than brown though.
Boy am I glad that Keychron exists. 100% users don't get much love and many options available.
Totally agree. Keychron keyboards are nice especially if you run bootcamp since you can switch from Mac to Windows mode. I'm not a fan of the Gateron switches though that they come with. I'd suggest swapping them out with lubed Glorious Pandas.
@@smittyst0ic just get the barebone keychron q series, i put in gateron ink black v2's and some pbtfans keycaps and they're my daily driver for my mac setup.
Nuphy is better I think. Air 75 is awesome
@@myaccount__7269 They do look interesting and are wireless, but they are more expensive and (from what I can see) don't come in full size.
The shot with a fly on 11:57 is comical and amazing at the same time :)
I'm a big fan of Keychron keyboards if you want a decent entry point into custom mechanical keyboards, they offer a wide range of options from the purchase, and most of their models feature hot-swappable keyswitches so you can change them out if you want to try something different.
I don't own a single thing made by Apple and never have. I do, however, watch every single video on this channel just because of Jonathans way of presenting. No other channel on LMG has this kind of almost personal tone and I'm all here for it!
I like the new magic keyboards that are built in to the new 14-inch and 16-inch MBP, but I use a mechanical cherry MX Green keyboard at home because I like the resistance and tactile feel.
f you like the Magic Keyboard but want a longer travel, I highly recommend checking out the Gazzew U4 Silent Tactiles. They're the ultimate "D-shaped bump", they have literally no post-bump travel and they give you loads of resistance all the way through the stroke, from the beginning until the very end. It gives you the exact same satisfying rounded tactility as a Magic Keyboard/membrane keyboard, but with way more travel than the former and barely any mushiness compared to the latter (even though they're "silent" switches, they have barely any of the negatives of more mainstream silent switches). After years of using (and quite liking!) the "feel" of good laptop scissor switches but not wanting to drill my fingers into aluminium every time I want to type something out because of their abysmal travel, these switches have been an absolute godsend for me.
Oufff Cherry Greens are hard, I'd recommend trying holy pandas or something if the budget is there.
@@thebaker8637 what would you suggest for the least amount of key travel? I have tried a glass keyboard where there weren't any "keys" at all & I loved it except I still want a physical response that I hit a key.
no one has came out with a flat "keyless" keyboard yet with haptics to let you know something has been pressed.
I want the thinnest keyboard with the absolutely least, so small travel it doesnt even count as moment keyboard there is. & the case to be made out of some type as metal as plastic keyboards just feel cheap to me.
i was a mechanical keyboard hobbiest for a while… im done
building your own, modifying, hacking, programming, it’s a lot
i just wanted a keyboard that always worked, so i bought a filco and moved on with my life. when it breaks i’ll get another one.
Great video. I personally use the Keychron K2 with red switches on my Mac Studio. I used to have the original K1 because it fit the Space Gray look better, but the K2 still feels great and has a minimal look. Before that, I had a wireless backlit Matias keyboard, but it was really mushy
I also second Keychron! I rock a K5 with browns since I love that K1 low profile but also want a full proper numpad. The quality is great, wireless mechanical is the only way to live IMO, and they work seamlessly with both Mac and Windows systems. Highly recommend for anyone on the market!
If you want buckling springs, you can still get them. There's a company in the US called Unicomp that makes them using the original designs and tooling with PS/2 or USB interfaces. You can even get them in the good old 101-key layout without any Windows keys! If you want Macintosh keys, that might be possible via their customisation options, but I didn't look into those when I bought mine, as all I wanted was a classic beige 101 board.
Ellipse sells capacitive buckling springs but they have some QC issues and kinda suck imo
@@mohawk4759Have you used one? I have an original 4704 board they were based off of, along with an F XT and some F ATs. One of his repro F77s lives on my desk. People have reported problems with them, I haven't had any that aren't just normal when dealing with shipping (or even packing up and moving) buckling spring boards.
Capacitive buckling spring (Model F) is so much smoother and more consistent than membrane buckling spring (Model M).
The pre-butterfly keyboard was perfect, now I find the Magic Keyboard of the iPad great too, but i never liked the butterfly keyboard, neither the current ones.
The obvious omission is Unicomp, which is the current incarnation of the legendary IBM model M, right down to buckling spring key switches.
I'm glad to see Matias get some coverage and love at last. I discovered that keyboard a while back. I own two of them at present (one hooked to my modern iMac, the other to a Power Mac G5). I type for a living and I absolutely love the feel of that keyboard, and it offers perfect Mac compatibility with media keys on top of that. Hands down the best Mac keyboard and the best typing experience for my money. My #2 choice would probably be a Unicomp (got a couple of those also). Don't really care for Cherry switches of any variety, though a red or red-style switch is nice on a gaming system and I do have that type of keyboard on my gaming PC.
They only work with Macs of course they will have perfect compatibility.
@@Wolfmeister666 Nonsense. They're perfectly compatible with any PC, same as every other USB keyboard. They just happen to have a Mac keyboard layout.
@@ericwood3709 Laptop Pro not, the other one might.
@@Wolfmeister666 They also sell versions of their keyboards with a Windows layout, I've had the Tactile Pro for a few years.
Need more of this duo! Great back and forth and clashing of their perspectives.
I'm soooo happy to see that my personal favorite keyboards got featured. I'm currently using the tactile pro as my gaming keyboard and using the original ADB keyboard (that came with the Apple IIGS) for all of my non-gaming needs using an ADB to USB adapter. After seeing several keyboard round ups from LTT I was always sadden that the Model M got praise but little is said about the Alp Apple keyboards. Great job all around because in my mind an AEKII will always out class the IBM Model M and this is coming from a PC user.
Long live Alps and Matias.
LTT never came across to me as a particularly informed channel on keyboards. It isn't their focus.
The Model F is way better than the M anyway, easily competing with complicated Alps. When I first tried the Model M I just went back to Cherry MX blues. Maybe not a choice I would make today, but the M is still really stiff, pretty inconsistent unless the plastic rivets in the place are in good shape, and definitely not as smooth as an F.
@@xb0xisbetter you see, I've tried both Model F and M. As well as Cherry MX Blues. And I've felt both the Model F and M (at least for me) are a bit clunky for my liking. And the actuation point on the Cherry MX was a bit light for me. And I've felt I can get my fastest typing speed on the Apple IIGS keyboard. Those have Alps Electric switches with a very smooth linear feel. With the Apple Extended Keyboard II being a personal favorite for an all rounder keyboard since it's better suited for when I'm gaming.
@@jaydeniemuth9366 I don't even like MX anymore, the Model M was just mediocre enough that I went back to them when I hadn't tried anything else yet.
Model F would be amongst the last boards I would call clunky myself, but maybe you tried one with really screwed up springs that the owner didn't know how to tune or replace.
Apple IIGS had two different tactile Alps variants (salmon and orange) and an SMK variant (also great, although I haven't tried their tactiles). AEK II had salmon, damepened cream, dampened white Alps or Mitsumi switches. There were no linear variants of either board.
Which have you used of those?
I prefer linears for gaming and since linears are linears. I still just use an old K70 with MX reds for now. I much prefer clicky Alps like SKCM blue or white for everything else, although their tactiles are better than any modern tactiles as well.
I have an AEK II with damepend cream switches but it needs a thorough leaning and probably a wax of the sliders to smooth them out again.
I have both an old Apple Extended II keyboard (that I bought reconditioned off of eBay) and a new Matias Tactile keyboard that I just plugged in for a writing contest. Love them both.
Finally a new video! Please do more. Also, I like the keyboards from around the 2010 era for macs, which used the AA batteries. The felt nice to type on, but their construction wasn't 100%.
This video was surprisingly unhelpful.
Loved this video! I really need to try and watch some of Ploufs streams about keyboards, he seems like a wealth of knowledge! Glad you found your Sims keyboard lol
This video makes me want Jonathan and Plouffe together all the time. Like showing one another a thing they like. It was great. Like the little bits in the monitor on short circuit with plouffe and J showing up.
I love the massive world of possibility that exists in keyboard customization. Makes the world a little bit more interesting.
Plouffe pets a cat exactly like I’d expect him to
The Sims board was also clearly an alps board, that's why it sounds like the Sims. Most generic keyboard sounds in sound libraries are alps. That's why they're so iconic.
Maybe generic keyboards in the 90s (like Focus keyboards), as ALPS no longer making keyboard switches.
@@hahaiseewhatyouredoing9086 most cinematic sound libraries were actually recorded in the 80s and 90s. That's why!
my blue alps sound like someone typing in an infomercial
When you say mechanical keyboard for Macs, my very first thought was Matias, so I'm glad they got a mention! My main keyboard at home is a Unicomp PC 122 (the fact Nic brushed buckling springs aside so hastily insults me), but as a more portable option I also have a Matias Quiet Pro and... it’s really weird. The dampening of the tactile switch varies wildly based on how and where you strike the switch. Hit it wrong and get the maximum dampening, and the switch feels like a glorified rubber dome. Bypass the dampening and the switch turns into easily the best tactile switch I've ever had the joy of trying out.
Also Nic really needs to be introduced to Chyrosran22 and his collection of ALPS switches. I'm sure he'll find something he loves (ALPS made a MASSIVE variety of switches with tons of different feels)
Also, these cost an arm and a leg, but if yoh want the ALPS clicky switch experience in an MX-compatible package, get the ZealPC Clickiez. Dunno about others, but to me they're my favourite switch, barely beating buckling springs
I want a keyboard that sounds exactly like the ones in the lab on NCIS.
Ngl, I still hate and will never understand linear switches. The vocal portion of the custom keyboard community these past few years seems to exclusively worship linears and only cares abut how key presses sound half the time while typing feel is sidelined and tactile switches are persecuted against. Thanks for not just regurgitating whatever Plouffe says and actually keeping and forming your own opinion, Jonathan.
Well, most of the community still use row-staggered keyboards which are awful in terms of ergonomics, so there's no surprise there. Light linears are fine in my opinion, and actually quite fun in tiny keyboards that require lots of chording, but I'm pretty sold on sticking with tactiles for now.
I don't like extra keyboards with my Mac because once you use it at your desk, and walk off with your MacBook, you have to re-adjust. if you use a Magic Keyboard or other similar style keyboard (eg the one Satechi sells), you can keep up to speed without that adjustment period
Honestly, after a certain point it’s negligible. I’m constantly switching between my Windows Desktop and my MacBook Pro and it takes no time to adjust going from an extended full size w/macros to the Mac keyboard
@@MicahIsBatman2 that’s if you’re willing to settle for the adjustment time
I am wanting the best experience spare no expense
8:52 "Apple users have a bit of history of good keyboards..." As someone who appreciates a quality mechanical keyboard the reaction to that statement was absolutely PERFECT!!!
the look he gave tells me hes new to the hobby
Got the Nuphy air 75 myself. Love it. Not perfect but I plan to mod it in the future.
How’s the battery life on them? I’ve heard its not too great. It always surprises me how much battery life the magic keyboards have for its weight.
@@sm-zt4ut I'm getting about 2 to 3 months between charges with no rgb. I change my macros often so the 20 mineets of charge through the data synk cable means I really have too charge it. On the highest rgb I think I got about a week out of it. white nonstop just as a trial. But I like pbt keycaps so shine through isn't I use or really need.
@@Count_Rugan What kind of macros can you set up on the current Air (specifically with macOS)? I'm a novice to this world of keyboards - was looking at getting the Air75 but then saw there's a new generation coming out late 22/early 23 which will support multiple layers. I also heard the Nuphy software is Windows only right now, but the new one will offer better OS support? So feels like I'd be better off waiting for the newer model as I've lasted this long..
@@sfrost007 Most of the macros i use change depending on what game I'm playing. Or for school, some often used code syntax. its always a personal thing. thankfully the nuphy air 75 has all the music shortcuts I would need. The software is getting a mac update soon. like within the next few weeks soon. check the discord for updates.
I know nothing of the new model. i would much appreciate it if you showed me a link or what to look up to find more about it.
i love how even outside the hobby he dislikes cherry browns
I know this isn't gonna be popular, but I've tried mechanical keyboards, various switches, and the like.
The keyboard I keep coming back to is the default Magic Keyboard. It's just far more comfortable to me.
Oh boy I sure love cold metal cutting into my wrist whenever I type. It's so comfortable!
Average apple enjoyer 😂
@@wta1518 You must have really tiny hands.
Mechanical switches are not for everybody. Especially if you’re not a pc gamer, you probably won’t like mechanical at all at first
@@aland7236 I am 5' 3", and my hand are proportional.
All I've ever wanted in a keyboard is Apple's small, wireless (non-"magic") keyboard, but with backlit keys and a wired connection. That's it. I love that keyboard.
Considering that the keyboard of my Mid-2014 MacBook Pro is starting to give out, this kinda hits close to home.
These MAC Address videos has this freshness to it. Love the work guys. This is legit becoming my fav lmg channel.
Something every keyboard review skips over is the usability surrounding the typing experience. I bought a Keychron and the Nuphy when I was looking for a keyboard, and while I preferred many aspects of the Keychron, I kept the Nuphy because its wireless connectivity was significantly faster when waking my computer from sleep. On the Keychron I would hit a key to wake the computer up, then wait 20-30s, often having to hit more keys, just to get everything connected and awake before I could type in my password. The Nuphy is almost instantaneous (not quite as fast as a magic keyboard), so that's what I use, even though it was my second choice in many other areas
keychron's bluetooth is pretty spotty, that's why i much prefer the keychron q series which is wired and with a much better full metal build
I have that same Matias keyboard at my office... it feels and sounds awesome but it's actually rather loud. If you're in a shared space or close to others, it may be too loud, tbh. Very comfortable and one my favorite keyboards I've used.
The style, editing, writing, cadence and everything else of this video is like INSANE!
I’m a keyboard guy and picked up the Nuphy Air75 last year as a light thin wireless mechanical that I could throw in my backpack for work. It’s quiet enough (brown switches) for the office and a huge leap over the standard issue office garbage. It doesn’t compare to my GMMK Pro at home or my Ducky Mini, but both are significantly louder and heavier (and above all, not wireless).
Great video overall, would love to see Apple take their own try at a mechanical experience
I've been a keyboard enthusiast for a while now, and this video really does highlight the basics of mechanical keyboards. Great Video!
Props to the sound recording. Wonderful job
Funny story, the first time I saw Jonathan was about a year ago on a video review of the NuPhy 75 keyboard that Nick mentions in this video. I bought it after watching the review and still use it today.
Jonathan also mentioned it had google colors in that video, so A+ for consistency.
I always love how unique the visual language of this channel is next to other LTT channels
Plouffe is...nuts! But it's a good type of nuts, and this is the first time I've seen any real video on getting a better keyboard for my Mac. Going custom may really be the only way to get a "perfect" keyboard. I'm going to start down this rabbit hole myself and may God have mercy on my soul (in other words my bank account!). Fantastic video!
Best of luck my friend! What's great is that it's a creation you get to enjoy every single day.
"It's not broken, it's just a cherry brown" give the man some real tactile switches
I have both the Tactile Pro and Unicomp Ultra Classic, and love both, but the latter sounds more Sims-y. However, it seems like the Mac version of the Unicomp is currently unavailable.
Now they just sell the Mac keeycaps separately and have instructions on remapping on their FAQ
This was an awesome collab
Actually the magic keyboard has one great benefit. MUSCLE MEMORY. You can switch effortlessly from desktop to laptop, and all your keys will be in the exact same spot. It also has the widest possible range of international keyboard layouts. From a practically point of view, it can actually be a solid choice. I sold my Filco once I started using Macs full time.
Nuphy air series is great because they have shorter switches so feel closer to what many are used to, but is also higher quality. Full win/mac support with a physical toggle switch too
If you find browns too mushy, there are lots of much more “thocky” tactiles out there, like the Glorious Pandas etc. I use those for my work board and the feedback feel is great.
Cherry Greens are horrendous tho, in case anyone asked.
Even lubed they're best used for the capslock keys or something you don't want clicking all the time.
browns are just scratchy reds
I regret buying the board I'm typing this on with browns
I like my replaceable low-profile Otemu Browns just fine, but then again that's basically almost the best you can get for a $25-$30 TKL mechanical keyboard.
Maybe I'll upgrade to a $250-$350 custom keyboard one day and find my favorite combo of switch types. Don't know when but it's definitely on my bucketlist now 😁
@@handlemonium you can get a host of outemu and more importantly, akko CS switches for the cheap that will fit most cheap mech boards (almost all of them use outemu below $50 usd)
Next build for work is gonna be $25 eyooso k620 with akko cs matcha green (50g linear) which are $13 for 45 on amazon
With $15 pbt keycaps total build cost is about $65-70
Jonathan: I want a keyboard that sounds like it's from the Sims
Nicholas: Your keyboard already sounds like it
I'm surprised they didn't give a little more attention to the Keychron lineup. It's the perfect gateway into the mechanical keyboard world for Mac users (and anyone else) because they support MacOS and Windows layouts out of the box. They even supply both a Windows, Ctrl, and Alt key to go with the Command, Option, Control keys. Plus they are super affordable.
Keychron doesn't really offer the best boards for the money anyway.
Technically they do, but the 30 bucks shipping f** that up bigtime. A good ~70buck keyboard automatically becomes an expensive plastic case board with very limited upgradeability.
@@Daniel-dj7fh most of the keychron boards can be bought on divinikey which ships in the US for free.
@@RichardHorpe I don't live in the US
@@Daniel-dj7fh ah ok, oof
Never had an issue with my keyboards but I can understand how it might affect someone
I like how custom keyboards get more coverage lately. People like to gatekeep their hobby, but I think it's win win for everyone if it becomes more mainstream!
only if iso keycaps got some of the mainstreamness :(
@@Daniel-dj7fhundeserved
Yes, such a perfect way to have Nick Plouffe in the video! :D Well done Johnathan!
I’ve spent a lot of time trying to make a silent keyboard so I can use it in my relatively small shared office. The reality is: nothing comes close to the Magic Keyboard when it comes to a decent, incredibly quiet, feel. (FYI using the boba u4t silent, and very happy with them)
Built an Odin V1 with Boba U4S and a Tiger 80 Lite with MX Zilents (frankenswitch of an Aliaz housing and a Cherry silent stem). Both of them feel and sound excellent in my opinion
I have a Keychron also, had it two years now. Can’t recommend it enough. I got the compact layout that still included the 10key. The fit on my desk is amazing and it’s not a behemoth. Great keyboard.
I'm a fan of the magic keyboard and scissor/butterfly switches in general. Shorter travel is the main selling point for me, and also like that they are usually quieter
You can also get silent switches if you want it more quiet and low profile switches.
Not entirely sure if they offer low profile silent switches tho
You'd be amazed at silent switches like the Durock Dolphin, they're freakishly quiet, certainly quieter than even the Magic Keyboard.
However, I've yet to find a low profile switch that's silent, so the Magic Keyboard's got it beat on that.
@@bawbsmith I really wanna get my hands on some solid cheap silent switches one day.
But I've got a set of Gateron Cap's in the cupboard.
But a silent set for about 30c per switch or less, I'd be open for recommendations.
I just got the Keychron K3 v2 for my iPad and it’s awesome. Mechanical (linear switches all the way) but really low-profile.
The butterfly keyboard was NOT quiet. And it was NOT very reliable.
The recurring "but does it sound like the keyboard from the Sims" made me laugh every time. Love this channel.
The Unicomp model M is still being made and is the closest to the sims keyboard as mentioned in the video. Linus also did a video on it years ago so I know the office has one
Yes, and Unicomp sells Mac keycaps now to make a custom MacOS version because they don’t appear to have a Mac specific version anymore
It really seems like the other guy just despised buckling springs from the discussion at the start. Which is so odd especially given the sound request. Then he gave so many quiet keyboards to try?? Why?
@@kaitlyn__L True, I think the team is full of some very particular personalities. I mean it’s not even a bad thing to have preferences, but some people get kind of unreasonable about not letting others have their own personal tastes.
@@ghost-user559 sure, saying “these are my favourites” is fine if clearly marked, but when the host clearly asked for a loud clicky keyboard… making 50-75% of the options those kind would be reasonable! Instead it’s inverse.
@@kaitlyn__L Exactly. That’s the problem. I think sometimes tech people are a little tone deaf to others. It’s something you see a lot with computer people or gamers or mostly introverts. It’s not that they mean to, but sometimes they can be a little pushy or aloof.
I'm so glad you mentioned the matias tactile pro!!! I was super intrigued when i stumbled upon them on a local retailers' website a couple years ago. I used to have and enjoy one of the old Power Mac G4 keyboards that had similar switches before it finally broke around in 2015. I didn't wind up getting the matias tactilepro mini and have since kinda gone the way of Plouffe and gotten a DIY custom 60% mechanical keyboard, but now that it's back on my radar i'm definitely going to keep matias in mind when i'm thinking of getting a new keyboard.
I've been using a white Matias Tactile Pro FK302 keyboard for years. I think it's currently connected to it's 3rd Mac, having outlasted the previous two Macs I've owned. I also have a black Matias Tactile Pro FK302PC that I use with my Windows based systems.
I gotta say, I love my zealios switches. I know the rabbit hole is deep and there are probably better options nowadays, but these are fantastic. I just gotta find a better case and to make a layout I like better than what I've got now (the tokyo60). I think I want to go with something plastic for the case and to have a gasket mounted plate.
I used zealios 78gs for quite a while in one of my boards. Went through a phase using tangerines to feel out linears but I'm back in tactile gang and I'm using rebult harimaus now which I absolutely love in my QK75. If you can get your hands on some I'd suggest trying those since they're in the same ballpark but they have long pole stems and feel even more tactile than zelios!
@@SeraphimKnight Appreciate the advice, but I'm not planning on building or rebuilding anything in the foreseeable future. Got a new case I like better, and I think I'm just.. good. I do need to replace the stabs I think, but the sound is good, the feel is good. I might also try a custom layout that's been in my head for a while in this case, but other than that, I'm fine with this more or less being endgame. I don't really want a hobby from it, I just want a good KB, and I got it.
I also am a proud owner of zeal switches myself (fucking expensive switches, holy crap) though in my case they're a lot more similar to what the host of the video ended up with, as Clickiez have ALPS-like clickleaves, being a clone of an obscure MX/ALPS hybrid called Proworld switches.
Funny btw how both Matias and Zeal are canadian and making clickleaf switches lol.
I remember the original imac keyboards (1999) looked so pretty and were so portable, but typed poorly. The previous ADB keyboard was "tons" better. Today I run a Pictek blue TKL. The price finally went up, but I got mine for $16 shipped. It's compact and very responsive.
the aekii was using damped switches, hence it seeming mushy. in general, old alps switches are considered superior to modern reproductions (especially the early skcm switches like blues, browns, and oranges). there are some modern custom keyboards that can use those, but they're fairly uncommon. wish plouffe had been a bit more open-minded lol
Nicholas should’ve called out the flimsiness of the Magic Keyboard and the low durability of rubber dome switches. A keyboard at that price should be tough and not skimp on materials. I suspect he kind of has bland mainstream MKB taste since he didn’t know Alps or the AEKs. Like the rest of that crowd he probably ignores non modern keyboards and prefers the thock everyone’s fawning over. A sound I find unnatural. IIRC there aren’t any pre 2010s keyboards that make thock noises, given its popularity with young people I suspect they’re trying to make their MKBs sound like the iOS keyboard.
The Sims keyboard sounds nice actually, I hope Nicholas didn’t like it because the game audio was compressed. Funny that Jonathan accidentally stumbled upon what he was strongly desiring, they got pretty close with Matias (hope their reliability issues have been solved). To be frank I’m no audio expert so I could be wrong, but to me it sounds like the Sims are typing with a lo fi White or Blue Alps. You think I’m right? Alps keyboards are no longer made and go for a pretty penny. It’s true they’re ranked pretty high by MKB aficionados, you got to make sure the switches stay clean as they’re vulnerable to dust.
yeah while I do like that indeed there is some input from the Cherry-dominated modern mechanical scene, it's very appearant that Nicholas is closed minded and very Cherry-centric, with the obsession on low tactility (or high tactility but kinda awkward feeling and not as nice and crisp as vintage keyboards or clickiez switches or even box clickbar switches) switches with a clickless dense and muted (aka "thocky") sound profile. It's very appearant his main experience with switches at most is gonna be Holy Pandas and U4Ts rather than ALPS, and he's gonna preemptively shit on ALPS due to its differences and how clunky ALPS sounds.
Maybe if Plouffe tried Clickiez or a nice blue alps or amber alps board he'd change his mind, or he may have too many thock brain worms to ever end up doing that.
I mean, there's a lot he's missing out on more ALPS-inspired designs. I'm typing on Clickiez and while they were herrendously expensive, they were the exact tactile profile I was looking for years for, having been disappointed by competing designs like Cherry-inspired tactiles with bigger bumps and box switches, let alone the typical MX Blue and Brown fare. I wanted punchy and crisp tactility that makes the switch collapse at the actuation point, and I was getting closer with box switches and trying out blue alps at college, but box switches felt too linear mechanically still and blue alps didn't feel punchy enough. This feels just right, tho now I ordered a standalone amber alps switch to compare as well. The thing is Cherry design doesn't satisfy everyone that wants a mechanical keyboard, it sucks with tactility, and thus other designs would be a better choice, and Plouffe needs to be more open minded to that possibility. Not everyone wants Cherry.
I love that they're just filming in the warehouse. Great video once again.
The keyboard that came with my Performa 6400 had the last-gen Apple ADB keyboard and the home-row bump on that keyboard was on the D and K keys instead of the usual F and J keys. I actually liked that setup, as I've always found my middle fingers to have a better feel for that bump than my index fingers.
Dude, this video is awesome, like plain awesome, by far the best keyboard dedicated vid I've ever watched, it's not like I watch a lot of these, but still, you know I'm like a tech guy, and the dedication behind it is remarkable, cheers
He's their "keyboard guy" but doesn't know about alps and the AEK II? Jesus dude. He should be ashamed.
I don't watch many videos on this channel compared to LTT but this video feels like a massive step up in production quality!
cringe
Love the banter between Nic and Jonathan 😄