You have to watch out for those sensitivity ratings, some use a different method... 2.83v instead of 1 watt. With the 2.83v you have to take off 3db from their rating to compare it with the 1w rating of another sub.
The main advantage I see to a sealed box vs a ported box is... Most people THINK they can correctly build a good ported box. Sealed boxes are much easier to build correctly compared. That's the main reason imo why they have the reputation to "sound better". A well engineered ported box can be as musical yet more efficient than the majority sealed boxes depending on driver quality.
The main reason people refer to sealed as better for sq, is the low frequency roll off. A ported box will always roll off very steep whereas a sealed will roll off at a more gradual slope. A sealed box built larger than the subs VAS will usually perform like an IB. IB is the sound quality staple. You will have a massive sealed box, but you won’t have to cut a hole in your vehicle to do IB. A well designed ported box can sound very amazing though. Will be more efficient as well. But you can’t change the steep roll off, not even with EQ. Just food for thought. Cheers!!!
I can still remember hearing my first set in early 90s for the first time... had a ford escort gt! Subwoofers were 2 15in Corwin Vegas.... I can't remember for the life of me what amplifier I had though
Most people never look up the maximum recommend suggested enclosure size for the subwoofer they purchase. Build for maximum output not the recommended enclosure size if you want as much performance as possible. It takes space to make bass just like cone area is king.
A lot of people that compete know that you need a little bit more room than what the manufacture suggests. It took me a long time to find out my U series like at least 15% more than recommended. If you can combine a even bigger box with something like a loading wall, you can keep cone control and really get a lot of output too!
@caraudiolab Actually you can go to 25 percent but the catch to this is you better have that subsonic filter set just right because it reaches it mechanical limits faster in a bigger enclosure? If you have a smaller enclosure and 25 percent less you can give it more power and don't have to worry about blowing it up
Just bought a set of sundown x 10 v.2. I will be running 2 Jp 23 1.5.s for my amps. I latterly have been hung up on the best box configuration. Yes, sealed is great for space while inverting your subs for cooling. Thinking a 6th order still on the fence
I had a demo with a b-pillar sealed van setup around 2017-2018. He had twelve low level Power Bass 15's in recommended sealed box size doing low 150's. It was BY FAR my most memorable demo and one of my absolute favorites. I kept going back from demos over and over again from that guy, the sound quality was amazing.
I'm with u Mr Corn. Was running four sealed over 20 years ago in high school. Easily one of the loudest in town. Latest 2 builds I did were eight 12s sealed window line s10 blazer and eight 15s sealed window line in a suburban. Smaller space of the blazer was 😋
If you only have 1 sub then ported is better. Also if you have a certain taste in music you can tune your port to match that. I've had 2 12s sealed, and ported. Now I'm using a single 12 in a ported box. All the boxes so far have been taking up the same amount of space in my car. The biggest difference now though is the amp. Instead of getting more cone area, I upgraded my electrical and started using a bigger amp to compensate.
90% of people I ask, always say they like all different types of music when I try to tune their box for them. I always have to tune the box for the lowest bass in the music they listen to. However, most music has mid to higher bass frequencies. So, most of their music suffers. This solves that for 90% of what they listen to. However, sometimes you have someone who says they only like one genera. Then, ported totally makes sense! Thanks for the feedback! This is the crazy thing about car audio, everyone has different experiences, tastes, and opinions. Cheers!
@@caraudiolab Crazy is the right word, the level of nonsense and disinformation being thrown around is completely out of control on the internet. It's nice to find legit information that deals with straight up facts.
After all my life having ported subwoofers, the destiny sent me 2 sealed 10" Revel B12 subwoofers, with 1000 watts of beast power, they are the best performers I ever had, they deliver super tight bass, really impossible to hear from ported enclosures of any size. The only thing that I noticed with sealed enclosures is that you need a much better driver and a stronger amplifier to play music.
i'm an addict for low range extension, my biggest gripe is that all these prefab boxes are designed to peak at ~32-35hz. been strongly considering back n forth between a single brahma 15 in a sealed box, or a ported box tuned to target 25hz. zero idea what the practical solution will be yet.
In choosing a sub, the first thing is finding the useable space for a size of a box. You may end up choosing a bigger sub, only to restrict its potential. A well matched sub to its type of box and size is related to its EBP. It's called Efficiency Bandwidth Product. The specs that come from the manufacturers are suggestions. Sadly in ported box, the perceived loud box could be what's really called misaligned box tuning. Get the speaker design book by Vance Dickason.
Ok, this was a Sealed 12 inch VS a 12 inch Ported. How would you compare a 12 inch woofer and a 18 inch Passive Radiator in a 2 Cube box? The VAS of the PR would be the limiter 15 inch or 18 inch
Are you going for strictly spl? Or do you want sq? Are you looking for lows? Are you going for bandwidth? What frequency would you tune the passive radiator at? This really depends on your goals.
Depending on the speaker type, assuming that the cone can handle the power closed box sub will be able to handle more power at low frequencies due to better Xmax response. Also you can tune frequency response via DSP, but you can't tune impulse response, which is always way better on closed box.
This also greatly depends on the kind of woofer and applications as well. in my home theater I use 4 live sound subwoofers ...ported' And they hit Hard!!! with tight transients .... Compared to my vehicles sealed 10's. The 18's have a higher FS, light cones, tighter suspensions in turn I can keep that tight punch with the benefits of porting. All the while keeping thermal compression down. and using the back wave. witch is The biggest fault in sealed enclosures using high watt woofers.
Home theater is a completely different beast where the lows are what you are trying to achieve. So ported, or if possible infinite baffle, are great options. Thanks for sharing!
I recently experimented. I had a 12 in a ported cannon enclosure and it was very impressive! I then to save space jumped down to 2 10s in a sealed. The result was my sealled 10s outdid the 12. Then I tried 2 different ported boxs. Vented and a bandpass. I was not impressed! Sound quality loss and really didn't get the boom like expected at all. I put my sealed back in and 100% better. So I'd use sealed not ported anyday!. I pulled up to a buddy at work. In a vote , people was more impressed with my set up more. Even my friend thought I had 12s or a 15... nope i have 2 10s 1500w 750 rms each , sealed On a 1500 w amp. So I agree.. sealled is the way to go!
@@davidharrell8890 well this has been fun. So I recently added 2 mor 10s and holy cow. Yes I fit it all in a mustang. Lol.. anyway I've had a blast. But now I'm stepping up with compition 12" subs. Now, I would choose a sealed over vented box definitely, but something tells me to go vented vented to keep the subs cool. So I'm uncertain. I know sealed will make a sub heat hotter faster. Not as much air flow. I am bumping up to 8000watts with 2000 rms. 5 farad capacitor, and 0 guage wiring this spring.
Exactly my thinking. Two 500 watt 12's sealed powered by a 1000 watt amp should be superior to one 500 watt 12 on 500 watts taking up the same space ported. I plan on doing 9 12's sealed in my civic on 8K this year.
I was told to get a sub that is atleast 12", designed for sealed enclosure and has RMS power of 1500W or you are going to be disappointed. And they were 100% correct. I got Alpine SWR-1542D ( on paper is better in sealed box), a 15" with RMS power of 750W. Built a box to spec and I was 90% disappointed. Everything below 40hz dropped off very quickly and even in the 40-80hz range was just not bunchy enough for me and I don't even like super loud bass. I rarely listen music over 85-95db.
Hey i thought about doing sealed i had 2 12s ported but wanted to go maybe to 2 18s sealed. The Stereo Integrity HT18s. I what do you think about this? I want to be louder than the setup i have but i want accurateness too. This is the space i have to work with in my 2007 chevy impala 36W 17H 40D. Do you think i can make it work? This is gonna be my first attempt to make a box and i feel like sealed would be easier
So when you drew the first graph. At first you drew the frequency response for both boxes with 1 12. All good. But when you drew the second sealed box with 2 12s you then explained more of max spl graph…. The sealed box with 1 12 or 2. If each sub has 1 cu ft they have the same frequency response. Obviously it would be 3db increase. Just me pointing out that nitpick I had lol.😅
Two 120o w.rms woofers can I get a bigger box sealed for deeper bass instead of using a ported box?? Most sealed boxes are 32wx14 deep can I maybe go 32x18 or à Lil deeper¿
Depends on how much power you have. A bigger box helps subs move more, but too much power and they can move to much and hurt themselves. If you already have a ported box, you can try plugging the ports and slowly turning up the power and seeing how it sounds.
I personally like 6th orders, ported and sealed. I don't much care for 4th orders. They are hard to calculate and tune properly. However, they get loud at a narrow band of frequencies! So, if you like it very loud at only a few frequencies, 4th's are awesome! 6ths are great for wind and playing a wide range of frequencies. Sealed can play a wide range as well, but not as windy, go for cone area with sealed if possible. If you already have the sub picked out, then ported is a decent mix, it has good bandwidth and can get decently loud.
I think the current trend is if you want a sealed box, it's to save space. So manufacturers say you can put the speaker in a tiny sealed box to try and sell it. In reality, you're killing its efficiency and low end when you do this. A true sq sealed box will be larger than any spec box, and be more efficient than the smaller box, requiring less power. Old school sealed boxes weren't tiny like today's sealed boxes. Not saying sealed is better than ported BTW
Great feedback! I recently had a user ask about modeling a sealed box with a bigger than recommended box because he didn't see that to often. I used to think that they would recommend a small box just so the product would sell. I still think that about cheaper products. However, after modeling a lot of subs, I have started to think that for higher end products, they have them small because they have figured out how to get subwoofers to handle much more power and how they can get them to fit into smaller boxes. So, if they recommended bigger boxes, they would have to cut back on power handling. Overall though, I think with cheaper products, you are %100 right! Also, anytime you put a sub into a sealed box, you loose low end output. Sealed just aren't really a good option for low end unless you have huge space and lots of subs, but then you might as well go IB! Love the feedback!
so how do i get the deepest bass sound from a sealed enclosure. I actually just installed 2 sundown audio SLD 12's, its the shallow mount subs and the matching sundown audio SIA 1750 amp. It sounds like my getting more echo and treble sound vs bass.
How big is the box? From your initial description, it sounds like you need to adjust your amp settings (high pass/low pass filter) to cut off the higher frequencies and set your low pass filter to allow lower frequencies through.
@@caraudiolab the box i have is .65cuft per sub.. i know i need 1 cuft for these subs which is why im getting a new box in a couple of weeks but besides that, the subs sound very punchy and not deep and i know sundown subs get deep, even the shallow mounts. the HPF on the amp ranges 10hz - 1khz and the LPF ranges 40hz - 20khz. what do you recommend to set these 2 at
@@lude4u2nv A bigger box and try your filters to allow between 30 and 70 hertz to start and then see how that sounds. You can always readjust from there.
You need Eq and set your gains afterwards thank me later don’t be afraid to use eq don’t let these idiots on TH-cam tell you eq is bad or bass boost it’s there for a reason adjust then set your gains
If you change a number of variables at the same time, the integrity of your test is comromised. The speaker type and number cannot be changed if the variable is box type.
@@caraudiolab I’m going from two Skar evl 12’s to 4 evl 12’s on a Skar rp4500 and it’s really expensive for a ported box. And I just want a clean thumping bass. Thanks for responding,I’ll sub to your channel.
@@linzelllottjr.8183 If you want really clean bass, like your bass somewhat punchy and don't play rebassed music, you will probably be happy with a sealed box for those EVL's.
I only suggest playing with stuffing if your subs are inverted, that way stuffing can't get into the gab and cause a fire! That happens occasionally. But honestly, the meter can barely tell the difference between stuffed boxes and non-stuffed boxes. For 99% of people, the human ear can not tell the difference between stuffed and not stuffed boxes. I was hung up on stuffing or not when I first started too! It is a very common question, thanks for asking!
can sealed subwoofers dig down LOW? like Put On my Young Jeezy and decaf music low? seems like you have to go with ported tuned very low (25 hz?) to hit those LOW LOWS. assuming you don't care about rock and roll, etc also would a 15 sealed hit lower than a 10 in a low tuned box?
Sealed isn't really a good option for music below 30 hertz. You would probably need about four times the cone area to be about as loud at a ported box in the mid 20's. Don't get me wrong. I sat in a van with twelve 15's sealed. It hit the lows just fine. :) It just took some cone area to do it!
This is only true for low power applications. Once BL increases so does the box efficiency. Sealed is more for sound quality at low power rather than volume.
@@caraudiolabthat will be a dope ass video because I'm looking at a couple different types of subs deaf bonce machete fight r 15s are one specifically because they both have a high bl over 20 and ts showing they would do well in sealed after calculating ebp
@@GTILOUD Are you looking at the 15"? Because that totally makes sense. I What car were you planning on throwing it in? Also, were you planning on spl or lows for your build? maybe a mix of both?
Very few. However, that is due to regulations such as cone area limitations. They have forced competitors to use ported or other box designs. Back in the day, most competitors used sealed before rules changed. Honestly, if I had sponsorship or money, I would run a sealed box design at competition, it would do really well in music runs and burps in classes without cone area restrictions. Some of my most favorite demos have been from sealed boxes at competition. Thanks for your feedback!
I guess so, not sure what I should have used. To to be fair, it was my first video and I am trying to figure this all out. If you want me to review or talk about the SA v2, let me know what you wanted to know and I will try to put a video together that covers it. Thanks for the feedback!
So i love to listen to heavy metal with hard dubble bass kick drums an was told to do a seal box. But i do also like the low bass of rap music as well, but dont wanna sacrifice the sound quality for the heavy metal music. So sealed is still my best bt then ???
Laws of physics can't be bent. The larger the diameter, the more Overhang, mudiness happens. The smaller diameter subs will always be accurate reproducing the kick drums, the transients BETTER.
@@tedtan6449 Ridiculous. This is a quality control issue, not a sub size issue. Trusted speaker manufacturers will produce perfectly fine speakers no matter the size. The only time you'll have issues is if you try underpowering the subs, but only if you are pushing the amp beyond it's limits. Ie, trying to push a 1,000 watt sub with a 500 watt amp and clipping the amp trying to get everything out of it. As long as a speaker is being fed clean power within it's RMS and put into a proper spec box, it will reproduce quality sound that isn't muddy or any other BS claim about larger subs. Any size subwoofer can be messed up by doing any number of wrong things from incorrect power to incorrect box design to lousy placement in a vehicle. And it usually takes a pretty major mistake to create any real noticeable problems because most subs have a pretty reasonable range for proper working conditions.
@@marcuslinton310 car audio fabrication site has expounded on this. Different cone materials, different sonic characteristics. And that includes the motor structure. It's either SQ or SPL.
@tedtan6449 ~~What dictates the audible differences in subwoofers tends to be differences in maximum output and extension (which are functions of extending the linear range). What this means is that a subwoofer that costs twice as much doesn’t sound better than one that costs half as much if both are operating only within their linear range.~~ Now, you may have a sub B that handles lower frequencies better then sub A, this is still not "sounding different", it simply plays lower frequencies louder. If you played both subs SAME WATTAGE, same box design, same everything at say at 40hz, well within the linear range of just about any sub made, they would sound the same with the exception of one might be a tad louder due to it's sensitivity or something, but most likely you won't notice. And they certainly wouldn't sound "different", whatever that even means to the person making the claim at the time. You can easily hear this at any car audio show, no matter the brand of subs, they all sound the same once they start booming, the only change is loudness. The only time "different" starts to come in to play is you try pushing subs beyond their specs to their breaking points. This is simply a matter of what the sub was designed to handle. When you start to push these speakers beyond their limits, they will indeed all tend to act differently based on their materials and breaking points. But that's only relevant to DB drags and their stupid farting. Nobody playing music should ever be pushing their subs to that extreme so it's just irrelevant.
As a general rule, a ported enclosure reproduces double pedal kick drum as a muddy, extended fart. Sealed sounds more like a machine gun. Google 'step response' to learn why, and consider the amount of energy stored in each type of loading. My PA system comprises 4 x 21" and 6 x 18" sealed driven by ten amplifiers totalling about 19kW continuous.
All theory and no practice. This video is a waste of time. You should try to actually build these enclosures and run the tests instead of using a doodle app to “squiggle” your theory. You may be correct, but its hard to take serious with this approach👍🏼
This is generally accurate for low motorforce low power handling drivers. But once you get to the performance level of an SAV2 or even SA classic its not. The coupling between the motor/coil and the port, VASTLY increases efficiency and power handling. Well beyond 6 db in many cases. Even looking at weak drivers in modeling softwares (which underestimate the effects of port loading) its not unusual to see a 10+ db difference in sealed and ported boxes around tuning.
I plan on making a video on this when the weather cools down using subwoofers! I will use the same series sub to keep things even. I know that increasing the port size can definitely give users a db gain at tuning. Thanks for the feedback!
Ypu wrong as fuck dude 😂😂 3bd maybe 5 There are plenty of videos showing this including one showing only a 3 dB gain on a very expensive overpriced gately ported box over a cheap pre fab sealed
Depends how low you tube or high you tune and then once cabin gain is involved ya 15db gain EASY sealed vs 23hz tune + a caning gain your upbeat more on the low end and way windier and on the high end 50-60hz with a large port and lots of power you can burp 30 db higher ffs then the same sealed box 33hz is the mid ground we’re cabin gain equals them out a tad at low pier and nose fs of subs sit around here for even more efficient…
Each box type has benefits/drawbacks. But I love 6th orders myself as well. I really want to try and build an 8th or 10th in the future and talk about it on my channel. Thanks for the feedback!
I love sealed boxes but not every sub can perform optimally in a sealed just like every sub can’t perform optimally in a ported box . EBP plays a huge factor
Love infinite baffle! I will be doing more box style comparisons in the future. I need some time to devote properly to IB to do it justice. Thanks for the feedback!
I rarely come across IB setups, mostly because the cars I see with setups are usually at competition. However, I think it would be fun to try testing a loading wall with an IB setup to see how that may help. It would definitely help the cone control.
They have massive xmax and big motors, that cost money. It also means that it won't preform well in a sealed box because the air spring restriction will make it hard for the sub to take advantage of the full excursion and if it does, it could blow the box apart.
On average you will see up to +3db doubling the same woofer, You will not be able to run just any 2 12s over 1 12 of a higher power handling sub. You are the first person however that I seen actually mention that you literally can not put a high excursion sub into a sealed enclosure, How ever you didn't mention why. It displaces so much volume that it will blow the box apart but more likely rip itself literally apart
Rarely I have seen over 3 db gain, but that was because doubling the subwoofers shrunk the vehicle available cabin space raising cabin gain! Overall, great feedback! Thanks for watching!
Hey I have a 2005 Buick Century with 4 12’s in a ported box….the box is built inside my trunk…..it is so loud that I had to replace my trunk twice and I lost count on brake lights 😂…….but no that I have watched your video I should have went sealed! (DB Drive WDX G2 4 ohm on a JP 23 V2) should I go with a smaller amp)
That sounds fun! You should probably add reinforcement to your trunk like vibraflex or something. You could always just turn your amp gain down a little, I don't think you would be happy though. We bassheads are always adding bass, not taking it away!
It's all dependent on how you like your music. It's just preference really. Ported is great. Sealed is great. I like my bass to be boomy. I get that more in a ported box. Great video too.
Can u please explain on the graph how a sundown x would sound in a sealed box. Vs like Sa sub. I tried a sundown x physically and it didn't sound bad at all. That's why I was wondering how it would look on a graph
I just finished recording a video on this, thanks for your suggestion! I just need to edit it some, hopefully it can be uploaded in the next day or two.
I just got an Adire Audio Brahma X 15. Coming from two American Bass hd 12s on an 8k in a ported box. I have plenty of power. How big of a sealed box do you recommend? Thank you very much. I've never ran sealed before. Appreciate any input
Another variable to throw in the mix is the sensitivity of the sub. Lower power subs can be a couple dB more sensitive than the high-power version.
I kind of wanted to get into that with this video but didn't want to make it super long. However, excellent point! Thanks for the feedback!
You have to watch out for those sensitivity ratings, some use a different method... 2.83v instead of 1 watt. With the 2.83v you have to take off 3db from their rating to compare it with the 1w rating of another sub.
The main advantage I see to a sealed box vs a ported box is... Most people THINK they can correctly build a good ported box. Sealed boxes are much easier to build correctly compared. That's the main reason imo why they have the reputation to "sound better". A well engineered ported box can be as musical yet more efficient than the majority sealed boxes depending on driver quality.
Good point.
I agree. A ported box built correctly for any subwoofer using its T/S parameters can sound amazing.
The main reason people refer to sealed as better for sq, is the low frequency roll off. A ported box will always roll off very steep whereas a sealed will roll off at a more gradual slope. A sealed box built larger than the subs VAS will usually perform like an IB. IB is the sound quality staple. You will have a massive sealed box, but you won’t have to cut a hole in your vehicle to do IB. A well designed ported box can sound very amazing though. Will be more efficient as well. But you can’t change the steep roll off, not even with EQ. Just food for thought. Cheers!!!
I remember back in the 90s when I bought my first pair of jl audio 12s they were in a sealed enclosure sounded phenomenal
I miss some of those old 90's subwoofers. Someone could make a killing if they brought back that style.
@@caraudiolablike the old rf punch hx2 12s boyyyy they fucking slammed and sounded so damn good
I got 2 still love the punches slammed hard af😂🎉
I can still remember hearing my first set in early 90s for the first time... had a ford escort gt! Subwoofers were 2 15in Corwin Vegas.... I can't remember for the life of me what amplifier I had though
Most people never look up the maximum recommend suggested enclosure size for the subwoofer they purchase. Build for maximum output not the recommended enclosure size if you want as much performance as possible. It takes space to make bass just like cone area is king.
A lot of people that compete know that you need a little bit more room than what the manufacture suggests. It took me a long time to find out my U series like at least 15% more than recommended. If you can combine a even bigger box with something like a loading wall, you can keep cone control and really get a lot of output too!
@caraudiolab Actually you can go to 25 percent but the catch to this is you better have that subsonic filter set just right because it reaches it mechanical limits faster in a bigger enclosure? If you have a smaller enclosure and 25 percent less you can give it more power and don't have to worry about blowing it up
Just bought a set of sundown x 10 v.2. I will be running 2 Jp 23 1.5.s for my amps. I latterly have been hung up on the best box configuration. Yes, sealed is great for space while inverting your subs for cooling. Thinking a 6th order still on the fence
A 6th is a great option for those!
I've been building boxes for 30 years, and listened to them all, and running 4 sealed with high power is my favorite by far, no questions.
I had a demo with a b-pillar sealed van setup around 2017-2018. He had twelve low level Power Bass 15's in recommended sealed box size doing low 150's. It was BY FAR my most memorable demo and one of my absolute favorites. I kept going back from demos over and over again from that guy, the sound quality was amazing.
@@caraudiolab 150 sealed is a whole different animal dang!! A whole lot more stuff moving around, and yes the sound QUALITY!!!!
I'm with u Mr Corn. Was running four sealed over 20 years ago in high school. Easily one of the loudest in town. Latest 2 builds I did were eight 12s sealed window line s10 blazer and eight 15s sealed window line in a suburban. Smaller space of the blazer was 😋
@@keevinsimpson5858 not only a wonderful setup running 8 sealed, those are perfect vehicles for enjoying it too, a blazer is soo perfect for sound
@@caraudiolabmy first system was two 10s ported. Tried sealed never looked back it been 13 years sealed boxes are the way to go
In my own opinion.
If you only have 1 sub then ported is better. Also if you have a certain taste in music you can tune your port to match that. I've had 2 12s sealed, and ported. Now I'm using a single 12 in a ported box. All the boxes so far have been taking up the same amount of space in my car. The biggest difference now though is the amp. Instead of getting more cone area, I upgraded my electrical and started using a bigger amp to compensate.
90% of people I ask, always say they like all different types of music when I try to tune their box for them. I always have to tune the box for the lowest bass in the music they listen to. However, most music has mid to higher bass frequencies. So, most of their music suffers. This solves that for 90% of what they listen to. However, sometimes you have someone who says they only like one genera. Then, ported totally makes sense! Thanks for the feedback! This is the crazy thing about car audio, everyone has different experiences, tastes, and opinions. Cheers!
@@caraudiolab Crazy is the right word, the level of nonsense and disinformation being thrown around is completely out of control on the internet. It's nice to find legit information that deals with straight up facts.
After all my life having ported subwoofers, the destiny sent me 2 sealed 10" Revel B12 subwoofers, with 1000 watts of beast power, they are the best performers I ever had, they deliver super tight bass, really impossible to hear from ported enclosures of any size. The only thing that I noticed with sealed enclosures is that you need a much better driver and a stronger amplifier to play music.
i'm an addict for low range extension, my biggest gripe is that all these prefab boxes are designed to peak at ~32-35hz.
been strongly considering back n forth between a single brahma 15 in a sealed box, or a ported box tuned to target 25hz. zero idea what the practical solution will be yet.
I thought about a 12 ported but got a 15 b2 Rage in a very small sealed box and it shakes the car for sure.
In choosing a sub, the first thing is finding the useable space for a size of a box. You may end up choosing a bigger sub, only to restrict its potential. A well matched sub to its type of box and size is related to its EBP. It's called Efficiency Bandwidth Product.
The specs that come from the manufacturers are suggestions. Sadly in ported box, the perceived loud box could be what's really called misaligned box tuning. Get the speaker design book by Vance Dickason.
Ok, this was a Sealed 12 inch VS a 12 inch Ported. How would you compare a 12 inch woofer and a 18 inch Passive Radiator in a 2 Cube box? The VAS of the PR would be the limiter 15 inch or 18 inch
Are you going for strictly spl? Or do you want sq? Are you looking for lows? Are you going for bandwidth? What frequency would you tune the passive radiator at? This really depends on your goals.
Depending on the speaker type, assuming that the cone can handle the power closed box sub will be able to handle more power at low frequencies due to better Xmax response. Also you can tune frequency response via DSP, but you can't tune impulse response, which is always way better on closed box.
This also greatly depends on the kind of woofer and applications as well. in my home theater I use 4 live sound subwoofers ...ported' And they hit Hard!!! with tight transients .... Compared to my vehicles sealed 10's. The 18's have a higher FS, light cones, tighter suspensions in turn I can keep that tight punch with the benefits of porting. All the while keeping thermal compression down. and using the back wave. witch is The biggest fault in sealed enclosures using high watt woofers.
Home theater is a completely different beast where the lows are what you are trying to achieve. So ported, or if possible infinite baffle, are great options. Thanks for sharing!
IB in the home is what I hope to do one day! If it’s killer in a car I can only imagine what it does in the Home!
I recently experimented. I had a 12 in a ported cannon enclosure and it was very impressive! I then to save space jumped down to 2 10s in a sealed. The result was my sealled 10s outdid the 12. Then I tried 2 different ported boxs. Vented and a bandpass. I was not impressed! Sound quality loss and really didn't get the boom like expected at all. I put my sealed back in and 100% better. So I'd use sealed not ported anyday!. I pulled up to a buddy at work. In a vote , people was more impressed with my set up more. Even my friend thought I had 12s or a 15... nope i have 2 10s 1500w 750 rms each , sealed On a 1500 w amp. So I agree.. sealled is the way to go!
Look at the power You we’re feeding them.
@@davidharrell8890 well this has been fun. So I recently added 2 mor 10s and holy cow. Yes I fit it all in a mustang. Lol.. anyway I've had a blast. But now I'm stepping up with compition 12" subs. Now, I would choose a sealed over vented box definitely, but something tells me to go vented vented to keep the subs cool. So I'm uncertain. I know sealed will make a sub heat hotter faster. Not as much air flow. I am bumping up to 8000watts with 2000 rms. 5 farad capacitor, and 0 guage wiring this spring.
Exactly my thinking. Two 500 watt 12's sealed powered by a 1000 watt amp should be superior to one 500 watt 12 on 500 watts taking up the same space ported. I plan on doing 9 12's sealed in my civic on 8K this year.
If you want to save space, maybe it's better to use a passive radiator then 2 drives
That is probably the best option! I completely agree!
I was told to get a sub that is atleast 12", designed for sealed enclosure and has RMS power of 1500W or you are going to be disappointed. And they were 100% correct. I got Alpine SWR-1542D ( on paper is better in sealed box), a 15" with RMS power of 750W. Built a box to spec and I was 90% disappointed. Everything below 40hz dropped off very quickly and even in the 40-80hz range was just not bunchy enough for me and I don't even like super loud bass. I rarely listen music over 85-95db.
Hey i thought about doing sealed i had 2 12s ported but wanted to go maybe to 2 18s sealed. The Stereo Integrity HT18s. I what do you think about this? I want to be louder than the setup i have but i want accurateness too.
This is the space i have to work with in my 2007 chevy impala 36W 17H 40D. Do you think i can make it work? This is gonna be my first attempt to make a box and i feel like sealed would be easier
So when you drew the first graph. At first you drew the frequency response for both boxes with 1 12.
All good.
But when you drew the second sealed box with 2 12s you then explained more of max spl graph….
The sealed box with 1 12 or 2. If each sub has 1 cu ft they have the same frequency response. Obviously it would be 3db increase. Just me pointing out that nitpick I had lol.😅
Thanks for the feedback! This is one experiment that I plan on doing in real life!
@@caraudiolab I’ve done it before. And you’re absolutely correct.
I did 1 sealed Kicker CVR12 and then ported
@@caraudiolab long story short I now have 4 kicker 12s in a sealed box 30”x30”x12”
1cu ft net each and I love it
Two 120o w.rms woofers can I get a bigger box sealed for deeper bass instead of using a ported box?? Most sealed boxes are 32wx14 deep can I maybe go 32x18 or à Lil deeper¿
Depends on how much power you have. A bigger box helps subs move more, but too much power and they can move to much and hurt themselves. If you already have a ported box, you can try plugging the ports and slowly turning up the power and seeing how it sounds.
What about a 4th order vs just sealed or just ported?
I personally like 6th orders, ported and sealed. I don't much care for 4th orders. They are hard to calculate and tune properly. However, they get loud at a narrow band of frequencies! So, if you like it very loud at only a few frequencies, 4th's are awesome! 6ths are great for wind and playing a wide range of frequencies. Sealed can play a wide range as well, but not as windy, go for cone area with sealed if possible. If you already have the sub picked out, then ported is a decent mix, it has good bandwidth and can get decently loud.
I think the current trend is if you want a sealed box, it's to save space. So manufacturers say you can put the speaker in a tiny sealed box to try and sell it. In reality, you're killing its efficiency and low end when you do this. A true sq sealed box will be larger than any spec box, and be more efficient than the smaller box, requiring less power. Old school sealed boxes weren't tiny like today's sealed boxes. Not saying sealed is better than ported BTW
Great feedback! I recently had a user ask about modeling a sealed box with a bigger than recommended box because he didn't see that to often. I used to think that they would recommend a small box just so the product would sell. I still think that about cheaper products. However, after modeling a lot of subs, I have started to think that for higher end products, they have them small because they have figured out how to get subwoofers to handle much more power and how they can get them to fit into smaller boxes. So, if they recommended bigger boxes, they would have to cut back on power handling. Overall though, I think with cheaper products, you are %100 right! Also, anytime you put a sub into a sealed box, you loose low end output. Sealed just aren't really a good option for low end unless you have huge space and lots of subs, but then you might as well go IB! Love the feedback!
so how do i get the deepest bass sound from a sealed enclosure. I actually just installed 2 sundown audio SLD 12's, its the shallow mount subs and the matching sundown audio SIA 1750 amp. It sounds like my getting more echo and treble sound vs bass.
How big is the box? From your initial description, it sounds like you need to adjust your amp settings (high pass/low pass filter) to cut off the higher frequencies and set your low pass filter to allow lower frequencies through.
@@caraudiolab the box i have is .65cuft per sub.. i know i need 1 cuft for these subs which is why im getting a new box in a couple of weeks but besides that, the subs sound very punchy and not deep and i know sundown subs get deep, even the shallow mounts. the HPF on the amp ranges 10hz - 1khz and the LPF ranges 40hz - 20khz. what do you recommend to set these 2 at
@@lude4u2nv A bigger box and try your filters to allow between 30 and 70 hertz to start and then see how that sounds. You can always readjust from there.
You need Eq and set your gains afterwards thank me later don’t be afraid to use eq don’t let these idiots on TH-cam tell you eq is bad or bass boost it’s there for a reason adjust then set your gains
@@asmack360 I have a DSP, I just tuned it and used an RTA, it sounds amazing now
If you change a number of variables at the same time, the integrity of your test is comromised. The speaker type and number cannot be changed if the variable is box type.
Can a Skar EVL 12 perform in a sealed box?
Their site does have a 1.75 cubic foot recommendation for sealed. I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it.
@@caraudiolab I’m going from two Skar evl 12’s to 4 evl 12’s on a Skar rp4500 and it’s really expensive for a ported box. And I just want a clean thumping bass. Thanks for responding,I’ll sub to your channel.
@@linzelllottjr.8183 If you want really clean bass, like your bass somewhat punchy and don't play rebassed music, you will probably be happy with a sealed box for those EVL's.
What about adding 3/4 stuffing for the sealed box yay or nay?
I only suggest playing with stuffing if your subs are inverted, that way stuffing can't get into the gab and cause a fire! That happens occasionally. But honestly, the meter can barely tell the difference between stuffed boxes and non-stuffed boxes. For 99% of people, the human ear can not tell the difference between stuffed and not stuffed boxes. I was hung up on stuffing or not when I first started too! It is a very common question, thanks for asking!
can sealed subwoofers dig down LOW? like Put On my Young Jeezy and decaf music low? seems like you have to go with ported tuned very low (25 hz?) to hit those LOW LOWS. assuming you don't care about rock and roll, etc
also would a 15 sealed hit lower than a 10 in a low tuned box?
Sealed isn't really a good option for music below 30 hertz. You would probably need about four times the cone area to be about as loud at a ported box in the mid 20's. Don't get me wrong. I sat in a van with twelve 15's sealed. It hit the lows just fine. :) It just took some cone area to do it!
This is only true for low power applications. Once BL increases so does the box efficiency. Sealed is more for sound quality at low power rather than volume.
I am going to test this in real life and make a video out of it with both high and low Bl subs. I can't wait!
@@caraudiolabthat will be a dope ass video because I'm looking at a couple different types of subs deaf bonce machete fight r 15s are one specifically because they both have a high bl over 20 and ts showing they would do well in sealed after calculating ebp
@@GTILOUD Are you looking at the 15"? Because that totally makes sense. I What car were you planning on throwing it in? Also, were you planning on spl or lows for your build? maybe a mix of both?
I like my bandpass variants
What percent of spl competitors use sealed boxes ? 0%
Very few. However, that is due to regulations such as cone area limitations. They have forced competitors to use ported or other box designs. Back in the day, most competitors used sealed before rules changed. Honestly, if I had sponsorship or money, I would run a sealed box design at competition, it would do really well in music runs and burps in classes without cone area restrictions. Some of my most favorite demos have been from sealed boxes at competition. Thanks for your feedback!
There are plenty that hit 150s from 20hz to 60hz .... you wrong cuz wrong as hell obviously never been to a car audio show 😂😂😂
ported=louder=better
Interesting
I plan on showing this with actual subs when the weather cools off. Thanks for the feedback!
Any good box modeling software will tell you the opposite.
So the thumbnail is a lie
I guess so, not sure what I should have used. To to be fair, it was my first video and I am trying to figure this all out. If you want me to review or talk about the SA v2, let me know what you wanted to know and I will try to put a video together that covers it. Thanks for the feedback!
So i love to listen to heavy metal with hard dubble bass kick drums an was told to do a seal box. But i do also like the low bass of rap music as well, but dont wanna sacrifice the sound quality for the heavy metal music. So sealed is still my best bt then ???
Laws of physics can't be bent.
The larger the diameter, the more Overhang, mudiness happens. The smaller diameter subs will always be accurate reproducing the kick drums, the transients BETTER.
@@tedtan6449 Ridiculous. This is a quality control issue, not a sub size issue. Trusted speaker manufacturers will produce perfectly fine speakers no matter the size. The only time you'll have issues is if you try underpowering the subs, but only if you are pushing the amp beyond it's limits. Ie, trying to push a 1,000 watt sub with a 500 watt amp and clipping the amp trying to get everything out of it. As long as a speaker is being fed clean power within it's RMS and put into a proper spec box, it will reproduce quality sound that isn't muddy or any other BS claim about larger subs. Any size subwoofer can be messed up by doing any number of wrong things from incorrect power to incorrect box design to lousy placement in a vehicle. And it usually takes a pretty major mistake to create any real noticeable problems because most subs have a pretty reasonable range for proper working conditions.
@@marcuslinton310 car audio fabrication site has expounded on this. Different cone materials, different sonic characteristics. And that includes the motor structure.
It's either SQ or SPL.
@tedtan6449 ~~What dictates the audible differences in subwoofers tends to be differences in maximum output and extension (which are functions of extending the linear range). What this means is that a subwoofer that costs twice as much doesn’t sound better than one that costs half as much if both are operating only within their linear range.~~
Now, you may have a sub B that handles lower frequencies better then sub A, this is still not "sounding different", it simply plays lower frequencies louder.
If you played both subs SAME WATTAGE, same box design, same everything at say at 40hz, well within the linear range of just about any sub made, they would sound the same with the exception of one might be a tad louder due to it's sensitivity or something, but most likely you won't notice. And they certainly wouldn't sound "different", whatever that even means to the person making the claim at the time.
You can easily hear this at any car audio show, no matter the brand of subs, they all sound the same once they start booming, the only change is loudness.
The only time "different" starts to come in to play is you try pushing subs beyond their specs to their breaking points. This is simply a matter of what the sub was designed to handle. When you start to push these speakers beyond their limits, they will indeed all tend to act differently based on their materials and breaking points. But that's only relevant to DB drags and their stupid farting. Nobody playing music should ever be pushing their subs to that extreme so it's just irrelevant.
As a general rule, a ported enclosure reproduces double pedal kick drum as a muddy, extended fart. Sealed sounds more like a machine gun. Google 'step response' to learn why, and consider the amount of energy stored in each type of loading.
My PA system comprises 4 x 21" and 6 x 18" sealed driven by ten amplifiers totalling about 19kW continuous.
All theory and no practice. This video is a waste of time. You should try to actually build these enclosures and run the tests instead of using a doodle app to “squiggle” your theory. You may be correct, but its hard to take serious with this approach👍🏼
If you read my replies to others, you can see that I am already planning on doing this in real life. Thanks for the feedback!
i like ported, ported is better
This is generally accurate for low motorforce low power handling drivers. But once you get to the performance level of an SAV2 or even SA classic its not. The coupling between the motor/coil and the port, VASTLY increases efficiency and power handling. Well beyond 6 db in many cases.
Even looking at weak drivers in modeling softwares (which underestimate the effects of port loading) its not unusual to see a 10+ db difference in sealed and ported boxes around tuning.
I plan on making a video on this when the weather cools down using subwoofers! I will use the same series sub to keep things even. I know that increasing the port size can definitely give users a db gain at tuning. Thanks for the feedback!
Glad I found ya here Professor Blake 🔥❤️👊🏼
Ypu wrong as fuck dude 😂😂 3bd maybe 5 There are plenty of videos showing this including one showing only a 3 dB gain on a very expensive overpriced gately ported box over a cheap pre fab sealed
Depends how low you tube or high you tune and then once cabin gain is involved ya 15db gain EASY sealed vs 23hz tune + a caning gain your upbeat more on the low end and way windier and on the high end 50-60hz with a large port and lots of power you can burp 30 db higher ffs then the same sealed box 33hz is the mid ground we’re cabin gain equals them out a tad at low pier and nose fs of subs sit around here for even more efficient…
I am using 2 alpine R 2ohm subs in a vented enclosure with correct specs , and they sound amazing!
All comes down to preference 👍
Good video here
Thanks for the feedback!
Good but I’m more of a band pass person 4th or 6th, which one is the best of both
Each box type has benefits/drawbacks. But I love 6th orders myself as well. I really want to try and build an 8th or 10th in the future and talk about it on my channel. Thanks for the feedback!
I love sealed boxes but not every sub can perform optimally in a sealed just like every sub can’t perform optimally in a ported box . EBP plays a huge factor
Very true! I hope to do an update video on this and do some testing and add some user feedback in the video! Thanks for the feedback!
Forgot to mention infinite baffle theory... 🤷 2x plus standard sealed
Love infinite baffle! I will be doing more box style comparisons in the future. I need some time to devote properly to IB to do it justice. Thanks for the feedback!
@@caraudiolab Looking forward 👌 to it... I have always found it extremely interesting 🤔 I think cone control is key 🔑
I rarely come across IB setups, mostly because the cars I see with setups are usually at competition. However, I think it would be fun to try testing a loading wall with an IB setup to see how that may help. It would definitely help the cone control.
Why are some of the most expensive speakers ported?
They have massive xmax and big motors, that cost money. It also means that it won't preform well in a sealed box because the air spring restriction will make it hard for the sub to take advantage of the full excursion and if it does, it could blow the box apart.
I have always believed sealed was better. More precise sound,quicker transitions from note to note and more power handling just to mention a few
On average you will see up to +3db doubling the same woofer, You will not be able to run just any 2 12s over 1 12 of a higher power handling sub. You are the first person however that I seen actually mention that you literally can not put a high excursion sub into a sealed enclosure, How ever you didn't mention why. It displaces so much volume that it will blow the box apart but more likely rip itself literally apart
Rarely I have seen over 3 db gain, but that was because doubling the subwoofers shrunk the vehicle available cabin space raising cabin gain! Overall, great feedback! Thanks for watching!
Hey I have a 2005 Buick Century with 4 12’s in a ported box….the box is built inside my trunk…..it is so loud that I had to replace my trunk twice and I lost count on brake lights 😂…….but no that I have watched your video I should have went sealed! (DB Drive WDX G2 4 ohm on a JP 23 V2) should I go with a smaller amp)
That sounds fun! You should probably add reinforcement to your trunk like vibraflex or something. You could always just turn your amp gain down a little, I don't think you would be happy though. We bassheads are always adding bass, not taking it away!
It's all dependent on how you like your music. It's just preference really. Ported is great. Sealed is great. I like my bass to be boomy. I get that more in a ported box. Great video too.
Very true.
Better as in space saving but most of us bassheads don't mind loosing cargo space.
I just have a tiny car and very tiny hatch area. I am always concerned with box size and weight.
Can u please explain on the graph how a sundown x would sound in a sealed box. Vs like Sa sub. I tried a sundown x physically and it didn't sound bad at all. That's why I was wondering how it would look on a graph
I just finished recording a video on this, thanks for your suggestion! I just need to edit it some, hopefully it can be uploaded in the next day or two.
I couldn't find it? Link please @@caraudiolab
@@850CANE I think this is the video: th-cam.com/video/KZNaVgfZ9kc/w-d-xo.html
I just got an Adire Audio Brahma X 15. Coming from two American Bass hd 12s on an 8k in a ported box. I have plenty of power. How big of a sealed box do you recommend? Thank you very much. I've never ran sealed before. Appreciate any input
Applies for Home Audio as well. Nice Work.
Yes! Thank you!