Hands on first impressions: Bosch 2022 eMTB
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- I got a quick look at the all new 2022 Bosch Smart System for electric mountain bikes.
Disclaimer: Bosch invited me to the EMTB Challenge in Tweedlove to take part in the EMTB Challenge and also showcase the new Smart System. This was a paid partnership with Bosch.
Bosch new Smart System includes a new remote controller, Kiox 300 display, New 750Wh internal batteries and the motor, although the same in terms os performance with 85Nm torque has been revised to accommodate the new Smart System.
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Bosch should really look at what Specialized and Shimano are doing when it comes to controllers and screens, they are still way too large and the cables wrapped around the bars, looks as though it has been retro fitted to a non ebike.
Lovingly strokes the controller on my kenevo. Specialized nailed this years ago.
Bosch Purion, $100 to replace if it breaks and it just plain works. Don't need my bike to work with my phone and the Bosch app is crap anyway. 625wh is more than most will ever need, skip the fluff and go ride.
Hi Rob . First things first, nice channel man keep up the good job. Second things ( they are a few)
My e-mtb its a Merida e160 2021 whit the ep8 motor and I'm super happy whit it . Yes , Bosch motors deliver more power at the same specs, but that's all. I don't see that Bosch is revolutionizing something in the e-bike industry whit this new Smart system , he is just catching up whit the guys from Specialized and Shimano, because until the new system you couldn't do an update on your motor or change the setup on it . The controls are still bulky compared whit Shimano or Specialized , and , in my opinion, I prefer to have a Phone on my or a Garmin on my bike instead of that kiox 300 because :
1. if you have a phone, in fact you don't buy something new for your e-bike because you already have it .
2. a Garmin I can use it on different bikes ( e-mtb / gravel / road, you name it )
3. my E-bike it's an Enduro bike so .. i don't need a map on an enduro trail and I don't want a big screen on my bike in case of a crash .
4. If I take a tour whit a phone I can update the track in my Social media ( ex strava) just by pressing a button , that not the case whit Kiox.
The new 750Wh internal battery it's not something new ( except for Bosch maybe ) on Merida bikes you have this option from mid June if I'm not mistaken ( e160 575/775/975 , e140 475/575/675) made by Simplo which is a Shimano company now.
To say that the new system cannot be upgraded to the old engine, even if the engine has not been changed, only on the software side, it's just for kids. Shimano designed the engines in such a way that you can update the bike just by changing the engine and bearing cable, something that you describe that you expect from the part of a Bike company.
So in the end, what is really new and revolutionary on this new Bosch Smart System . Yes is new for Bosch , but not on the E-bike industry. It's just another way of marketing his brand for increased sales.
Thank you for honest representation. Im going to buy my first e-mtb and your videos have been very helpful for choosing what I need and what I want.
Cube stereo hybrid 140 HPC TM 750 29 is my choice and is has this new Bosch system.
In terms of the software Bosch finally got where Shimano has been for a long time. It's great to be able to update your gear and make some changes to it. I am interested in the smart system as someone who is maybe soon going to push the buy button.
After trying it, a negative note of this new system is the remote control.
The keys to change assistance are too light to press, with vibrations on the trails it is easy to press twice instead of once, and obtain an unwanted level.
I currently only have ep8 motors on my bikes so excited to try this system out myself soon. The controller does a lot for its size in my opinion. I don't mind the look. Maybe not as stealth as the Specalize system but definitely acceptable. Thinking of running a team in EWSE next year with a rider on one of our bikes. The Bosch advantage and whatever else we can gain as an advantage that is within the rules works for me. Much like the racing we have been doing for nearly 25 years. Man and machine. I don't see the probelm! didn't know about the tweed option. I think i might just enter myself in these races if they are the same time as EWSE. Can't wait to see your thoughts once you get you hands on one Rob.
I've got the 2022 version of my bike on order. It has this system. But TBH, all I am thinking about is the weight. My bike is already a big bruiser. It's an awesome bike but if I could change anything it would be to reduce weight. So, if I cancel this order, it will be because I've decided I don't want the extra weight
Weight is irrelevant when you have a motor. You wouldn’t notice an extra kilogram or whatever the 750 battery adds
@@dalemartin1732 I've been riding mountain bikes (DH) 13 years. Weight makes a lot of difference, particularly on tighter 'busy' tracks where you're looking for more snappy nimble handling. Agreed, additional 2.3kgs of 2022 bike mostly irrelevant when using motor to pedal back to top of track
Bosch gen4 with the Purion old skool display is all I need ✌️
Totally agree. My Gen4 with purion display shows plenty of information in a simple, compact form factor. I’d prefer some kind of display over just some lights.
And I mount my phone over the stem which is infinitely more customisable and powerful than any display Bosch can design. Maps, heart rate etc etc
Love the idea of rider and motor manufacturer championships
So do I
I like the Bosch controller and screen , it looks easy to use and easy to see which is especially good for those of us with 4 eyes :).
I love the how the controller cable is wrapped around the handle bars 😬
I'm hoping my local bike scene does some emtb races. Would be fun!
Yet again good informative video. yes i agree with ebike racing, i think it will develop the bikes quicker .
Now You have earned my respect sir. Thanks for not waring that other FXX brand. Also I will subscribe now. Cheers.
Totally agree. No different to enduro racing / trials and long distance trials for motorbikes which is huge and this is more accessible. (Not that I ever spent more than £5k on my enduro motorbikes 😂)
Gonna guess it is a cube you have there. Keen to see the reveal!
I like the new Bosch controller and the fact it comes with a 750 battery, but so is the new 85 Nm Yamaha motor with a 750 battery as well. I recall that the older Yamaha 80 Nm was way more powerful than the Shimano P8
Bosch is working on a very small control unit, much smaller than the current controller. According a Bosch marketing director I talked with, on the testival, in Brixen.
Rob could you look into doing a video on the rules and regulations for ebike racing. Including motor regulations please.
Dear Mr Bosch, We want NYON. Thx, Rob - nice detailed review
Again, they put the display very vulnerable on top of the stem! I have a Kiox display on my Focus Jam2 and i moved it from the stem to the right side with a bracket from KTM ( like the Shimano displays!). The controlers are to big in my opinion for an MTB (trail, enduro)! Greetings from NL.
Hey Rob Rides Emtb! The adjustability for the button unit means there are better possibilities for under bar mounting! Love my Bosch system as it is! I hope you are able to answer the next question without violating any business agreements! Do you have any "I'll stay silent about right to repair" agreements with any companies that are against consumers right to repair issues? You mentioned that you used to work for Apple! Do they have any contracts that limit your ability to comment on right to repair? Like your vids a lot so I hope these questions don't offend you! Ride ride ride!
Hi Eric, glad you're liking the system. As far as your question goes, I don't have any agreements / obligations with any companies at all regarding any narrative. On my channel, I never would agree specifically not to say something (or even, to say something, for that matter) with what I do - even with the paid partnerships / promotions, I am upfront that I'll say what I like / dont like etc, so its not just a long advertorial. In my old job I was under contract so obliged to do what the company asked and I'm pretty sure all my NDA's at apple have now expired, but I dont recall anything on right to repair being refrained from conversations. May be different now though.
Hey Rob rides Emtb! That's what I thought and that's why I love this channel! If you think consumer right to repair applies to Ebikes consider covering the topic! Ride ride ride!
I had the Kiox two years ago on my Haibike, it showed my maps from Kamoot!
Brilliant vid Rob 👍
Were you a hand model in a past life Rob? 😅
Another great vid 👍
I have a 2020 Trek Rail 9.7 with the Bosch Gen 4 motor and I also have a 2021 Husqvarna HC7 with the Shimano EP8 motor. Hands down the Bosch is better stock for stock. The EP8 is a good motor...the Bosch is a GREAT motor. Anyone who says Bosch is crap is literally an idiot or simply never rode one...or maybe both. Great review Rob of the new system by Bosch.
@@jd5345 Ever ridden a bike with the Bosch Gen 4 motor?
@@mikenimmick3920 Next bike has got a new Bosch though never ridden one yet. All my bikes have Shimano atm. When you say better do you mean more powerful? If so is it cadence relevant or everywhere? Thanks Phil
@@philseton5796 It has more immediate punch on the bottom and more over run when you stop pedaling. I run my Trek on emtb all the time and it is friggin like magic. I run the Husky (EP8) on wide open all the time just to have it feel even kind of similar to Bosch's emtb mode. If I run the Bosch wide open (Turbo), I'd be smashing into trees...lol. There is 100% definitely a difference between the two motors. Fwiw, I ride woods single track in mid west exclusively. Simply put, the Bosch feels faster. The EP8 is a very good motor and I really love riding the Husky with it's 180mm travel, just seems like the Bosch has it beat in my opinion. BTW, I have not adjusted the profile on the EP8 yet. I am waiting for my new BT display to do this. The HC7 does not come with Shimao's BT capability display. So maybe just a new motor profile will make all the difference. But if I had to choose another bike knowing what I know now, I'd make sure it had a Bosch Gen 4. As far as cadence...I generally pedal fairly quickly. That being said, I run my Trek in 4th-6th 99% of the time. Very little shifting. The EP8, I do shift a bit more to hit that sweet spot on the motor.
Damn bro do you just piss money?
@@mikenimmick3920 Thanks Mike. Great explanation. I'm a reasonably fit rider who came to ebikes after 30 years of mtb riding. I love the fact I just do everything faster than I did on an mtb. Sounds like I will love the Bosch even more for this reason. Can't what for this Pole to get here now!
Think Yamaha have also come on with their new motors they just don’t get the publicity in the same way, tried both current gen motors I have a giant with a Yamaha motor and my friend rides a trek with the Bosch and I still think the Yamaha is more punchy especially lower revs and when starting, see how there 2022 bikes fare when reviewed with the new motors be good to have a comparison , thanks Rob
This is all irrelevant when mountain biking. I’m sorry but you need a simple cockpit to avoid any breakages as crashes do happen. Can’t see these screens lasting well in a crash. That remote looks awful too. It’s nice to have all the stats which I get from my phone hidden away off the bike. Specialized have the best stealth system. If I decided to go touring and wanted all stats in front of me or a map I would then mount my phone to the bar but I certainly wouldn’t have a permanent mounted display for day to day trail riding.
Rob, Bosch has the large Nyon mapping display now, for gen 4 but not sure about compatibility on the smart sys. Nyon replaces garmins and phones for mapping/ points of interest needs. It sits atop the stem so easy to read, and removes w one button depress. Just 250 quid to ugrade your Rail now and you wont miss your Kiox.
If I had Nyon, it would had been smashed a few times already, Kiox for me👍🏼
If your crashing into your bars often, electric components will be the least of your problems...
@@quitemountainous2528 Amen.
Hi Rob, you're right the controller does look smaller than the presentation.. the option to remove the display and run the system without it is a very smart move by Bosch.
Do you know or have a list of manufactures that will be using this Smart 750 system?
I know of Cube and Rotwild but who else is going to join the Bosch bandwagon?
I’d love it if they added a 625w battery to the smart system and then gave us an upgrade path to replace the Bosch bits.
No chance! They don't care about existing customers
@@johnf3326 Why does that not surprise me...
Distracting at night?
6 months of ownership on a Cube has been good with this.. but still no solid de-restriction method available...lots out there but none seem reliable.. I own the bike so i should have the right to de-restrict it if i want without Bosch telling me not to. Why cant there just be a warranty waiver option
whats going on with that untidy wire wrapped around the handlebar, ive seen many cube like this, if you’re going to make so much effort in making a bike and marketing it at least tidy that bar up
Hope to see the Scott patron on your channel👍🏻
Great info once again 👍🏽
Glad you enjoyed it
I was really pumped when I heard POLE was switching to the new Bosch system on the VOIMA when it ships this spring… definitely a Hard Wait but exciting to get that bike.
Thanks
Best to watch from 4 mins in as the first 4 mins are Rob going on about his fetish for small remote controllers.
Agreed.
Actually only 59 seconds for hands on!
All from the office. Nothing like a desk chair critic as they say. Rob does bring some relevant info however
Thank you for this video.👍
I do like the Bosch motor but I don’t like this controller.
The controller it self it’s o.k. but why they need such a thick cable?
Maybe it is stupid but I am looking for bikes with a clean cockpit.
I’ve been trying to work out classes for ebike racing!! It’s a interesting challenge with factors of rider weight and motor power to take into consideration!!
Can’t wait to get the “Up Hill Flow “ race series started next year
you can get a 750w frame batt from ebike vision but there 1000 euro and wont post them to the uk also do a 360w one and use 21700 cells tho they still use can bus PITA!
Looks great except my Garmin has mapping. I wouldn't want 2 devices on my bars, seems like a waste to me. Apparently, the Nyon can replace the Garmin, but it seems like it would be huge on the bars as its size is 14.5 x 9.3 x 2.01 cm.
The controller just doesn't need to be that big. A d-pad type switch with the battery bars and you're good.
Stuff the stupid led you can't beat a decent voltmeter for total accuracy
Looks really nice compared to most
But can you see the display and led's in bright sunlight?
The Purion display was, is good. Basic info and simple buttons. Easy to read in sun as 'old type' monochrome display.
Bigger capacity 750w battery, but larger and heavier (I have never come near to running out of juice on my 625wh). Way forward LIGHTER SMALLER HIGHER CAPACITY BATTERIES
Still not configurable by app? Wife's Giant Stance E+ 2 is!
Not backwards compatable? So we have to buy a whole new bike. No way! Just got the Rail 5 last December. You can't even get existing ebikes!
Already out of date as motors with integral gearbox are the way forward.
The Bosch motor is basically the same. The new setup is tinkering round the edges. My Rail 5 does what I want it to do and pretty well. I spend most of my time looking in front, enjoying the ride. Occasionally changing the power setting, checking speed and distances, battery charge. Maybe it would be nice to adjust the settings, have more settings, but emtb lite and eco do 90% of what I need and the Purion is fine. Besides if I spent £1000's on a complete new bike to get the upgrades, what's to say at the subsequent 'upgrades' Bosch won't do what they did this time and leave existing users high and dry?!
I want a device that can navigare me off road based on O. S. mapping and gpx files.
Got a question about the "power" feature. Is that the human power on the pedals or the power the motor is doing? Is the new Bosch system a power meter + e mtb?
On this display? I'm 99% certain that is rider power through the pedals (most of them have power meters) rather than motor power. I dont think Bosch display motor power.
@@RobRidesEMTB That would be a major feature. It would turn e-mtb from a "fun ride" to a bike that one could actually train and quantify their overall effort for a ride, it's also roughly a $500 value.
Hi thanks, I wonder how the PCBA works inside the motor because I see moving metal parts and the PCBA board is without any protection. It's got to be metal dust finding its way to the PCBA board and causing a short circuit. What do you think, for my eyes this looks like a problem? For sure the PCBA board is coated but still...
I wonder why Bosch haven't developed Bluetooth control (similar to AXS) to get rid of the ugly cables?
Specialized got it bang on, I don't want all that garbage info, just ride. bare minimum distraction.
Please, please test the new Giant
Does DYI make more sense than 6k for an entry e-bike? Seen many CYC videos but trust RR to let us know what's up! Half the features for half the price or better/worse?
Love my Bosch motor and controller on my Cube stereo 160 but the app is rubbish from Bosch its not even easy to change from kmh to miles ...why
I like the Bosch motor but always disliked their terrible controls and display. I still think the controller could've been smaller. The new Specialised display for me is the one to beat.
I dont think the battery is compatible with the standard powertube . If the batteries would have been cross compatible or even forward compatible with the old system but without the extra features then it would have been OK but to change the plugs so that you can't borrow a battery if needed and effectively changing their plug standards is a backward step. Brand confidence and keeping customer loyalty is priority these days so I think they've shot themselves in the foot with many of their existing customers and should make future customers wander if they will change it again in 2 years time. Looking at the controller too, I don't think it's an improvement at all. It looks clunky and an afterthought . It's a good feature that you can ride without the display and that would be the preferred option if its going to sit proud on the headtube like that... it looks very vulnerable and too big just like the haibike tq one. it was too cumbersome and obvious when riding when I tried it out. If the system is aimed at trekking or touring and sold in tandem with the old kiox then it ,I be OK but as a replacement, it's crap imo.
i prefer shimano but the updated bosch system is working also without the display....the display is just a display....
What happened with Trek, their 2022 range has the old system?
Do you buy a lot of these bikes or are you just sent them for demoing? Cuz you must be sitting on a stack of cash if you’re buying
You do go on about ergonomics so much while you sit in your office chair. Beards are not the most ergonomic either. How about cut Bosch some slack. Or better still discuss the important bits. Can we cable in powerful light systems and cameras? Things people want to know sort of stuff
Did the motor make the cluncking noise on the downs still?
Same motor
About the controller - I can't spot a dropper leaver on the side of the controller, it looks strange, like it's a bit of interference with a thumb down installed dropper leaver?
look at the new Cube bikes. They have the new controller and dropper post elegantly integrated
@@gonsasba Ok, I'd looked at some pictures of new remote on different bikes and have a better view on how the ergonomics play out. But I think that this "riser" required for magura brakes is a bit... high. Guess I have to see it and feel it in a real world, to have a final opinion.
cable management on the bosch system is so bad
Anyone knows whether Bosch uses FOC ESCs for their motors?
cool... but still this remote is big.
Let me guess, terrific user experience but the system is locked down to all hell.
The controller looks like 2000‘s China stuff.
For touring bikes etc. okay, but in my opinion not for Mountainbikes.
Just because of this controller i wouldn’t buy a Bosch System.
This redesign but not a new system. It must have been all wireless (Bluetooth) to call it new.
Do you get a free Star wars doll with the controller?
Hmmm maybe that whyte at the start of the video was a clue to your 2022 bosch systemed bike perhap #robridesetmtb ???
seems e-bike components are the iPhones of the 2020's
It's quite a lot smaller than on the picture.... Is what she said.
You need decent sized buttons when crashing around on the rocks etc
Nyon is better for touring
I’ll take a bafang any day over this.
I think personally less is more that is to much stuff to break
f1 is a great way to put it.
the hand controller is horrendous, looks like something you'd get on a kids bike from the 80s :(
Yeah but is looks more important than being functional ? because the function of it looks pretty good dont you think ?
@@mikldude9376 well, i don;t want to look like a kid haha..I'm happy with my ep8 controller thanks..
All ridiculous over priced hype promoted by Rob
Folk should boycott Bosch, so many people have bought bosch driven bikes over the last 2 to 3 years, and like me this year a 2022 v2 whyte e150rs and paid out a hell of a lot of money for the bikes and now will have value wiped off them with the kiosk 300. They should have made the system backward compatible, it wouldnt have been hard to do but in cahoots with manufacturers they went for the "buck" rather than customer driven designs which keep loyal customers in the loop. For this reason when it comes to replacing my ebike in the future i will be looking at other brands in regards to both the bike manufacturer and motor supplier. Bad move by both Bosch and those bike manufacturers who will take on board the new system leaving previous customers adrift and out of pocket. Appalling decision by Bosch and Manufacturers of bikes. I genuinely hope people spend their money elsewhere and both the bike manufacturers and bosch who are going to do this to their previous customers tank and lose their market share.....and it will serve them right.
Nice but brightness is the death of batteries as we know from our smart phones.
Im pretty sure it'll be negligible compared to a phone with a tiny battery compared to a 750Wh powertube. Also I think you can reduce the brightness.
Negligible
remember that unlocking the bosch 4 above 25km/h will lock the engine and void the warranty, on top of that there is no way to regenerate the battery and you will have to buy a new one for $900. I will never buy this.
i am hoping there will be a workaround for the 25km/h restriction..
That controller is ugly as sin wouldn't look out of place on a touring bike, but not on a mtb.
I'm gonna be honest it's pretty ugly, I'm going to wait and keep my Trek Rail and see what Bosch has maybe 3 years from now. Bosch are you listening?
No they aint! ☹
I love the how discreet are the Shimano e7000 display and controller. The Bosch motor is really good (I have tried it) but I can't get over how bulky their display and controllers area.