This was a super interesting watch, thanks for taking the time to explain everything in such detail to clearly outline the pros and cons of each system! 🙌
As a bosch gen4 owner, I am mainly interested in how all products perform over a 5yr+ lifespan, and how chain and gear wear handles more torq. Dont care about dragraces. My gen 4 almost always runs in ECO and almost never in turbo. less noise is always nice.
What's also important when buying an e-bike is the motor-battery pack warranty service because nobody wants to wait 6 months to get their bike back from the service.
Not only reliable but also very accommodating, you can be 3 years out of warranty and have 50.000 km on it and Bosch would replace you in case of a defect
How much power is enough power? I think we’re reaching the limit of what anyone needs. Personally I’d value robustness and reliability of a motor system waaaaaaaay ahead of power. Time will tell with the newcomers!!
Been thinking about this a lot recently, with all of the Amflow vids plastered over YT. Don't get me wrong it looks great fun, but I own an ebike to get further afield (and maybe tackle some fun techy sections), not bast on turbo non-stop. I rarely ever hit turbo, because its not the same sport imo. Innovation is great, but lets see it impact the prices pls.
Dji drones are incredibly reliable and have very high build quality. I would not worry about their build quality…. I would worry about their support system which would probably be not great.
@@mlee6136the demand on an MTB is far greater than the demand from a light weight drone. DJI durability is completely unknown as it relates to e-bikes.
800 wh option in the dji will help as does the 4-5kg less the bike system weighs , also if you dont use full power it comes down to motor efficiency instead and i suspect its very good , all that said it would make a fantastic video for sure.
I was at Coed Y Brenin in Wales when The Don from GMBN was on the Amflow we both did the same trail which is around 20km and both used 40% battery, my bikes got the Bosch CX gen 4 with a 750 battery and my bike weighs around 27kg, I’m also a heavier rider than Neil, not sure which mode he used but I was in auto the whole way, pretty sure he did it a lot faster than me as well. I can just go and change a battery but he put the Amflow on charge using the fast charger and it was back to full in around 30/40 mins, enough time to have lunch!👍🏻
In a German review (ride better bikes) he did a range test on the amflow and came to the conclusion that he got similar far in the amflow than with a Shimano or Bosch, but also in turbo (850w), meaning that it is actually more efficient and if you ride trail, which is Shimano boost bosch turbo you'd get more range out of it
Incredible performance from DJI but as you said Rob it’s part of the story still lot of unanswered questions such as reliability, water ingress etc plus how the bike rides some people won’t want all that power and I still think people will plump for the Bosch due to the options of bikes out there using the motor but credit where credit is due DJI have knocked it out of the park with the whole package, just make sure you have a back stock of chains and cassettes as you will burn through them in no time 😂 great review though Rob 👏
Coming from a Bosch Race motor and now riding the Nicolai MGU, I will not go back again. Yes there is some more noise but I really don’t care. Love the system, smart shift is really cool and no more maintenance is a big bonus. Do like to give the DJI a go to see hoe that works but think you need to change chains all the time with so much power. 😅
The power level of the current Bosch, Brose, and Shimano is totally fine. Refine the experience, add range and efficiency, and make them reliable and user serviceable and we're good. It's a slippery slope going with more and more power. Not a fan of these overpowered ebikes.
Yeah, there are some surrons for people that only want power without using your quads at all... Where I ride, we dont have any fireroad, only nice built singletracks so that much power is useless anyway.
Have you had the chance to ride the ZF system? I waited, and am super interested in the DJI system when I saw it announced earlier this year. great job again.
Probably unintentional but this is massive advertising for DJI - and I do not mind at all! It looks like really, really good product. I very much expect the long term review.
The dji has a 2 year warranty, like any other quality brand out there. They have selected only a few quality retailers to supply and support their product. This is already a hugely significant manufacturer of quality and reliable products, used throughout this format and many others. Obviously they have done their due diligence with research, development and marketing, with regarding their project. They have built a bike from scratch to showcase their abilities. This alone is incredible. A new bike and motor that simply blows everything existing away. I'm sure they will support this and grow what they have done. A trail bike again makes far more commercial sense than a full fat Enduro. More people ride trail bikes than anything else in this sector. I've ordered one and can't wait. I have no concerns over both reliability or support 👍😊
Troydon from Crestline hinted the Bosch will get a power upgrade next year. And the display will obviously be upgraded too. DJI has certainly given the competition a shake up.
Rob should have done the hill test with the DJI in the regular 105 Nm mode as the boost is only good for 30 seconds. It would still be faster but not by as much. For many of our big rides here in BC, one has to manage the battery for range considerations and the big boost power is not used on those rides. The DJI must be burning the battery that much faster in its higher power modes.
I’m curious how the chain and other components will hold up with the incredible power of the DJI motor. I hope it won't be a repeat of the Haibike story, which had the Flyon HPR120Nm motor and experienced many failures - chains, cassette wear, etc.
Holy crap! Got as far as the DJI time😮 Finally something to spend my money on (as long as the batt is big enough). I wanted the MGU, but yeah, I could hear the noise that’s putting out. My only concern for the DJI is durability, which Bosch has for sure.
I would like to see the DJI timed up the hill without the 30 second boost enabled. That would have been a more fair comparison since most climbs are way more than 30 seconds.
@@RobRidesEMTB, this test is misleading as my climbs are at least 30 minutes and sometimes several hours when climbing bigger mountains. I can't press the boost button every 30 seconds as that detracts from the biking experience and even more so if I'm in the middle of a technical section when I would need the assistance the most. I would appreciate a more realistic comparison.
@@dansadventures5514I live in the mountains. Verry steep mountains and also difficult slopes. You don‘t have always to push the boost mode button. The Boost Mode brings only 15 Nm more Power. Standard power from DJI avinox is 105 Nm, that is definitly enough for big mountains. So this test is pratical an realistic.
@@makro8218if the boost mode isn't needed or expected to be used then the comparison should be done in a way that represents the real world otherwise it's misleading
@@dansadventures5514come on…. The boost push it up only 15 Nm. That is a little bit more power, but not the double ore somethinh else. If is your question why was used the boost mode I ask why the other companies doesn‘t have it also? Thats not the trouble from DJI when other are „to stupid“ for it. And another thing, now I have a soecialized, I didn‘t use all the time on every ride the full power…. Power is good to have but isn‘t unrealistic to use it always.
The concept of the Pinion MGU is the future. Combining the gearbox and motor into one unit has so many advantages. This is the first version, I'm sure it'll only improve over time.
Staggering performance from the DJI but also at a competitive price. It must be terrifying for manufacturers now with the goal posts moving so far. Imagine spending 2 years developing your new bike with the latest Bosch motor to have a new company that nobody knew was developing an ebike and motor system showing up and smashing the power figures. Not having the "best motor" will make sales hard if there is a plentiful supply of cheaper more powerful and desirable DJI bikes available. This is the start of a major power struggle and I wouldn't mind betting there will be casualties along the way.
Dji doing that with all industries rn drones without any competition, cameras with dji pocket 3 and action 5 pro killing all competition and now ebikes kinda crazy tbh
Apart from power and price point, from now on people also compare the weight and it will be hard for brands to sell ebikes with 25-26kg, which have never been very agile, but their marketing was trying to convince us still... yeah, there were full power bikes with this weight before, but DJI is in another league of prominence, so I definitely appricate it, it will be beneficial for all of us in the future
If DJI offers a spare motor parts type website, with exploded diagrams for ordering and servicing the motor. They will be crowned king. For now. Don't forget, ZF hasn't had their chance yet, and unlike DJI, ZF will be available in North America. Interesting. Obviously, the DJI takes the win here. But personally, if price and possible serviceability were matched, I'd take the Saturn home. Some benefits are obvious. The not so obvious, I'd bet it's a better tech climber. Also, it's likely better on the downhill. Lastly, back country or just general big mile traversing, Saturn. Not to mention, the Saturn is unapologetic, industrial, and just awesome to look at.
I ride a Trek Rail with an 85nm Bosch, and a Haibike XDuro Yamaha before. I just wanted a little help, not a lot, up the hill now that I'm older & fatter with problem knees but that DJI 120nm is very tempting.
I'd hate to see how long the drivetrain lasts with the DJI motor
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Have been waiting for so long for such a powerful motor. Hope that Amflow come up with a longer travel version of the bike, which is what I would definitely buy. However, I heard Troydon from Crestline saying on a podcast, that the new Bosch motor will get a software update in the coming months, boosting torque to 100-105Nm, that would be interesting
Rob, I think I’ve commented this like at least 20 times on your videos, but your channel is so good! Really appreciate the hard work you put into these
The dji is an interesting bit of kit for sure but how is it sold as 250w motor when it’s pulling 25amps to reach 1000w that makes it 500w nominal.definitely skirting the law which makes it even more attractive to me!😂
Why did Bosch put the same name badge on this next generation of CX Performance motor? Wouldn’t Bosch want to make at least a small indication that it’s new/different?
Nominal power (regulated to 250w) ≠ peak power. Nominal power is the power your motor can deliver anytime and permanently without risk of damaging the motor. Peak power on the other hand is the power your motor can do when it's needed, for example accelerating or rising uphill, but this cannot be done permanently (limited by overheating and shutting down power after a time). Just like a human who can ride flat at 20kmh no wind no problem, but accelerating or going uphill makes us sweat and we can't do that permanently. Tldr: nominal power is limited to 250w (regulated by the government), the motor has to be designed to basically overheat when putting out more power. Peak power on the other hand is not regulated and can be how much the manufacturer wants, he decides the absolute limit of the mechanical and electronic parts to be reliable without breaking or catching fire. That's why Shimano can just put out a software update for the ep801 to deliver more power, because the peak power is theoretically unlimited, but limited by software and sensors from the manufacturer. practically for shorter durations, if you try to draw 2000 watts out of a Bosch CX the wires will start to burn after 3 seconds since they are not thick enough for the massive amounts of amps going through there (or battery) or the gear teeth will just break
As always another great quality video Rob cheers,DJI motor package deffo on a nother level do you know anything about serviceability and after sale service for the UK and what happens when the warranty runs out will replacement motors be available wish they would be more transparent about all the things a lot of us would love to know before investing,do you have any insight cheers Rob.Always look forward to seeing new content keep them coming, thanks for all your hard work 😊💯
Very nice test, but what I'm really interested in is how the downhill performance of the DJI compares to the Orbea? A powerful motor isn't everything if the rest isn't right. A comparison would be really cool.
Not sure how I feel about more power than 80-90NM. Should eMTBs be closer to a mountain bike or closer to an emoto? 🤔 trail access is already a hard subject for eMTBs. If eMTBs become too powerful we could all loose access to some areas.
Lately, everyone on YT is trying to sell the Amflow and its DJI motor but no one makes a test range. I really see people getting excited with DJI’s turbo mode, then they ride around the block twice and return home to recharge the battery :)))) I'll leave the reliability tests to the early adopters who are the ones who always pay the biggest bill. There is something that I am already beginning to foresee with some concern. Soon we will no longer be able to take our bikes to the trails we love so much because they will be considered electric motorcycles. And still no one has remembered to mention the dangers of fire during the summer when we ride electric bicycles through the woods. I'm about to buy an Orbea Rise or Wild, I haven't decided yet - maybe the Wild because of the Bosch engine - but unfortunately I'm starting to think that I'm going to do this at a time when the law will start chasing us. Lots of regulation, conditioned access to trails and expensive insurance to name but a few. Exactly the same as what happened with drones. I hope I'm wrong.
As for range... i did a 26km ride in mostly turbo mode on a full 600wh battery on my Amflow the other day (weigh 70kg) Not loads of elevation, but a few steep climbs in the 30 sec boost mode etc... Finished the ride at about 3% battery. Once you get to 5% battery the assistance really drops off... The most fun bike ride i've had in a very long time!
@@willgreenfield My bike rides are usually between 45 and 50 km. The ascende varies according to the mood of the day :) I always try to do more than 500m. Now that I want to buy an e-bike, I don't want to do less. Rather the opposite. So I have to choose wiselly. Thank you very much for your testimony.
@@PGNogueira no problem! I think you should definitely be able to do that length of ride with the bigger 800wh battery and using the eco/trail/auto modes
Would love your feedback on the downhill performance of these bikes and also the upgrades on the Amflow. I feel some play in the cranks is good for reducing pedal kickback a bit like an Ochain. Thanks for the great reviews. Really enjoy the channel.
If the DJI had a gearbox and belt drive and remained as silent every other bike on the market would be obsolete. it makes sense that a bicycle builder wouldnt be the one to ace this category so long as they imported a good bike designer into the fold. It made all low power bikes obsolete already because its light weight and you can turn it down to 1% assist if you feel like a sadist so no excuses there. Imagine if 2025 brings a a gearbox and belt for 2 kgs more , RIP everyone else.
Kudos to DJI for setting up the bar here for others to follow on their next gens. Just thinking with all that power comes with great wearability and tearability so lets see more consumer reviews in the next year and see how it goes.
09:32m Uff, that Pedal Kickback. The advantage of the freewheel play on the Bosch is that a small O-Chain is installed, which massively reduces pedal kickback. On my Mondraker Level I have no pedal kickback at all, although the Mondraker rear ends actually have quite a lot of pedal kickback. My E*Thirteen hub has a 6° engagement angle, so relatively little, and yet I have no pedal kickback at all, even when I fully compress.
Now optimize the software to bring us uphill traction control that enables easy re-starts on super steep terrain from a complete stand still. It’s what I struggled the most with on my Shimano EP8 emtb. And optimize energy efficiency and system longevity. Ty!
If each brand keeps going like this, they will pretty much be motor bikes, and it will make defending MTB trail use on an Ebike very difficult in places. Also, with the E-EDR series, are all the other brands going to be blown away on the power stages if someone races the DJI?
So the Dgi will get to the 15mph cut out a bit quicker than the Bosch and Pinion? Can you let us know on the individual tests how they all performed over the 15mph please!
I noticed on the bosch that pedalling backwards actually reversed the drive train 👌 that's got to be a first ? 🤔 It's definitely true how quickly the dji will eat, not just chains but also the complete drive train. A huge and expensive problem
How is the Nicolai's handling? with so much weight (battery) so much forward (close to head tube). Sad that other bikes don't have interchangeable battery - disqualified :(
Rob! How are you liking the intend suspension so far? There are a few people on youtube that runs it/has ran it now, but still no real good content. You ride a lot of bikes, with a lot of different suspension. Is the intend stuff really as good as people say on forums etc? I have their brakes, and absolutely love them. And I have been meaning to try their suspension as well, but doing any real research on it isnt the easiest.
As for the pinion: Less maintenance, means less total cost of ownership. That belt in theory will last 10000miles. That’s about 30 chains and 10 cassettes. (30 x £25 ) + (10 x £200) = £2750 And if you’re Rob… about 2000 derailleurs…. Removing that weight from the rear hub in theory should translate to better grip. But that noise… jeeeez that might be a deal breaker for me. I’ll have to check the one at the local as I’m super curious what it’s like in the flesh. It can’t be THAT bad!
I would have liked it more to compare on the same mode "Turbo" and not using DJI's Boost. For the Pinion I think the MGU is more useful with a Commuter/Trekking Bike with a lot of stops at traffic lights and heavy lifting with baggage. That the MGU was put on EMTBs is beyond me, really. The new Bosch BDU38 seems to be a really decent update to Gen 4 (Sensors & Battery)
This was a super interesting watch, thanks for taking the time to explain everything in such detail to clearly outline the pros and cons of each system! 🙌
As a bosch gen4 owner, I am mainly interested in how all products perform over a 5yr+ lifespan, and how chain and gear wear handles more torq. Dont care about dragraces. My gen 4 almost always runs in ECO and almost never in turbo. less noise is always nice.
What's also important when buying an e-bike is the motor-battery pack warranty service because nobody wants to wait 6 months to get their bike back from the service.
Cant' wait to see a good bike brand with DJI. I will buy it for sure!
All I’m interested in is the reliability. The Bosch motors have got a good reputation. Let’s see how the DJ fares in a years time.
Not only reliable but also very accommodating, you can be 3 years out of warranty and have 50.000 km on it and Bosch would replace you in case of a defect
Just for ease of maintenance I’m saving up for a belt drive system. I hate derailers and chains.
Gearbox is the future!
Waiting for bosch creates their own gearbox
Rob, love that you are including the weight / kWh metrics. Great video!
How much power is enough power? I think we’re reaching the limit of what anyone needs. Personally I’d value robustness and reliability of a motor system waaaaaaaay ahead of power. Time will tell with the newcomers!!
I want uncontrollable wheelies!
Been thinking about this a lot recently, with all of the Amflow vids plastered over YT. Don't get me wrong it looks great fun, but I own an ebike to get further afield (and maybe tackle some fun techy sections), not bast on turbo non-stop. I rarely ever hit turbo, because its not the same sport imo. Innovation is great, but lets see it impact the prices pls.
Bro, you forgot about traditional transmission guys) who need some help from e-friends to be towed uphill))
Dji drones are incredibly reliable and have very high build quality. I would not worry about their build quality…. I would worry about their support system which would probably be not great.
@@mlee6136the demand on an MTB is far greater than the demand from a light weight drone. DJI durability is completely unknown as it relates to e-bikes.
A range test comparison would be interesting - how many metres of vertical in boost - I imagine the DJI will run out of juice fairly quickly
800 wh option in the dji will help as does the 4-5kg less the bike system weighs , also if you dont use full power it comes down to motor efficiency instead and i suspect its very good , all that said it would make a fantastic video for sure.
I was at Coed Y Brenin in Wales when The Don from GMBN was on the Amflow we both did the same trail which is around 20km and both used 40% battery, my bikes got the Bosch CX gen 4 with a 750 battery and my bike weighs around 27kg, I’m also a heavier rider than Neil, not sure which mode he used but I was in auto the whole way, pretty sure he did it a lot faster than me as well. I can just go and change a battery but he put the Amflow on charge using the fast charger and it was back to full in around 30/40 mins, enough time to have lunch!👍🏻
In a German review (ride better bikes) he did a range test on the amflow and came to the conclusion that he got similar far in the amflow than with a Shimano or Bosch, but also in turbo (850w), meaning that it is actually more efficient and if you ride trail, which is Shimano boost bosch turbo you'd get more range out of it
@@eaze7324 Yes the data I have seen so far suggests the DJI wins on every level. It's a big wake up call for every manufacturer out there
The DJI bike is going to shake up the eMTB market for sure
Rob, excellent review as always, appreciate the honesty and can't wait for more!
Incredible performance from DJI but as you said Rob it’s part of the story still lot of unanswered questions such as reliability, water ingress etc plus how the bike rides some people won’t want all that power and I still think people will plump for the Bosch due to the options of bikes out there using the motor but credit where credit is due DJI have knocked it out of the park with the whole package, just make sure you have a back stock of chains and cassettes as you will burn through them in no time 😂 great review though Rob 👏
that is for sure, it will eat up chains and cassettes much faster than any other bike
Coming from a Bosch Race motor and now riding the Nicolai MGU, I will not go back again. Yes there is some more noise but I really don’t care. Love the system, smart shift is really cool and no more maintenance is a big bonus.
Do like to give the DJI a go to see hoe that works but think you need to change chains all the time with so much power. 😅
I wear out tyres and components quick enough with 85nm.. dread to think what the DJI motor will eat through. 😂
The power level of the current Bosch, Brose, and Shimano is totally fine. Refine the experience, add range and efficiency, and make them reliable and user serviceable and we're good. It's a slippery slope going with more and more power. Not a fan of these overpowered ebikes.
Yeah, there are some surrons for people that only want power without using your quads at all...
Where I ride, we dont have any fireroad, only nice built singletracks so that much power is useless anyway.
Have you had the chance to ride the ZF system? I waited, and am super interested in the DJI system when I saw it announced earlier this year. great job again.
Probably unintentional but this is massive advertising for DJI - and I do not mind at all! It looks like really, really good product. I very much expect the long term review.
The Sprague clutch in the Dji is really nice!
looking forward for the standalone review of the amflow
The review everyone was looking for!
The video everyone has been waiting for 😮❤
DJI is making the competition look silly. Well done DJI!!!
The dji has a 2 year warranty, like any other quality brand out there.
They have selected only a few quality retailers to supply and support their product. This is already a hugely significant manufacturer of quality and reliable products, used throughout this format and many others.
Obviously they have done their due diligence with research, development and marketing, with regarding their project.
They have built a bike from scratch to showcase their abilities. This alone is incredible. A new bike and motor that simply blows everything existing away.
I'm sure they will support this and grow what they have done.
A trail bike again makes far more commercial sense than a full fat Enduro. More people ride trail bikes than anything else in this sector.
I've ordered one and can't wait. I have no concerns over both reliability or support 👍😊
Very good comparison video of the most interesting systems out there at date! 👍🏻👍🏻
Troydon from Crestline hinted the Bosch will get a power upgrade next year. And the display will obviously be upgraded too. DJI has certainly given the competition a shake up.
@@Jasonmountainbiker22 Bosch will need to and quickly
Rob should have done the hill test with the DJI in the regular 105 Nm mode as the boost is only good for 30 seconds. It would still be faster but not by as much. For many of our big rides here in BC, one has to manage the battery for range considerations and the big boost power is not used on those rides. The DJI must be burning the battery that much faster in its higher power modes.
You've gone one better than Sam with this one!
I’m curious how the chain and other components will hold up with the incredible power of the DJI motor. I hope it won't be a repeat of the Haibike story, which had the Flyon HPR120Nm motor and experienced many failures - chains, cassette wear, etc.
Holy crap! Got as far as the DJI time😮
Finally something to spend my money on (as long as the batt is big enough). I wanted the MGU, but yeah, I could hear the noise that’s putting out. My only concern for the DJI is durability, which Bosch has for sure.
Can't wait to watch this fully. Just starting 👍
Spoiler, DJI is fastest😂
@@christiantimmer9226 haha I had suspected as much 😜
Need the dji with a belt drive 💪🏼
but then you can only use a heavy hub shifter with limited gears..
@@_rhapsodistNope add a gearbox too, that’s the future
@@_rhapsodistcouldn't a lightweight gear hub do the job? It's not like you need 12gears on a ebike
I would like to see the DJI timed up the hill without the 30 second boost enabled. That would have been a more fair comparison since most climbs are way more than 30 seconds.
You can just press it again for another 30 seconds. I haven’t managed to get it to not work despite several continuous activations
@@RobRidesEMTB, this test is misleading as my climbs are at least 30 minutes and sometimes several hours when climbing bigger mountains. I can't press the boost button every 30 seconds as that detracts from the biking experience and even more so if I'm in the middle of a technical section when I would need the assistance the most. I would appreciate a more realistic comparison.
@@dansadventures5514I live in the mountains. Verry steep mountains and also difficult slopes.
You don‘t have always to push the boost mode button. The Boost Mode brings only 15 Nm more Power. Standard power from DJI avinox is 105 Nm, that is definitly enough for big mountains. So this test is pratical an realistic.
@@makro8218if the boost mode isn't needed or expected to be used then the comparison should be done in a way that represents the real world otherwise it's misleading
@@dansadventures5514come on….
The boost push it up only 15 Nm. That is a little bit more power, but not the double ore somethinh else.
If is your question why was used the boost mode I ask why the other companies doesn‘t have it also? Thats not the trouble from DJI when other are „to stupid“ for it.
And another thing, now I have a soecialized, I didn‘t use all the time on every ride the full power….
Power is good to have but isn‘t unrealistic to use it always.
The concept of the Pinion MGU is the future. Combining the gearbox and motor into one unit has so many advantages. This is the first version, I'm sure it'll only improve over time.
So we tall riders need at least 80 deg seat angle for DJI motors. :) Thanks the videos Rob. Keep it up.
This is like a Carwow video for E-bikes 😂
I'm most excited about the Pinion MGU, but not this one, the one 5-10 years from now when they get it fully ironed out.
Staggering performance from the DJI but also at a competitive price. It must be terrifying for manufacturers now with the goal posts moving so far. Imagine spending 2 years developing your new bike with the latest Bosch motor to have a new company that nobody knew was developing an ebike and motor system showing up and smashing the power figures. Not having the "best motor" will make sales hard if there is a plentiful supply of cheaper more powerful and desirable DJI bikes available. This is the start of a major power struggle and I wouldn't mind betting there will be casualties along the way.
Dji doing that with all industries rn drones without any competition, cameras with dji pocket 3 and action 5 pro killing all competition and now ebikes kinda crazy tbh
Dji is super sus the more you look into them
Apart from power and price point, from now on people also compare the weight and it will be hard for brands to sell ebikes with 25-26kg, which have never been very agile, but their marketing was trying to convince us still... yeah, there were full power bikes with this weight before, but DJI is in another league of prominence, so I definitely appricate it, it will be beneficial for all of us in the future
@@mattjax16DJI being heavily subsidized and held by Chinese govt? Old news.
Reliability is still unknown and it seems overboosted. Too much e not enough me....Bosch works fine
Stunning bike that DJI , looks the part as well
If DJI offers a spare motor parts type website, with exploded diagrams for ordering and servicing the motor. They will be crowned king. For now. Don't forget, ZF hasn't had their chance yet, and unlike DJI, ZF will be available in North America. Interesting.
Obviously, the DJI takes the win here. But personally, if price and possible serviceability were matched, I'd take the Saturn home. Some benefits are obvious. The not so obvious, I'd bet it's a better tech climber. Also, it's likely better on the downhill. Lastly, back country or just general big mile traversing, Saturn. Not to mention, the Saturn is unapologetic, industrial, and just awesome to look at.
Climb time from dji without boost mode?
I ride a Trek Rail with an 85nm Bosch, and a Haibike XDuro Yamaha before. I just wanted a little help, not a lot, up the hill now that I'm older & fatter with problem knees but that DJI 120nm is very tempting.
I’d love to see big brands develop bikes around the DJI system.
@@nickclarkuk it won't be long
I'd hate to see how long the drivetrain lasts with the DJI motor
Have been waiting for so long for such a powerful motor. Hope that Amflow come up with a longer travel version of the bike, which is what I would definitely buy. However, I heard Troydon from Crestline saying on a podcast, that the new Bosch motor will get a software update in the coming months, boosting torque to 100-105Nm, that would be interesting
Any of these models are amazing!!
Rob, I think I’ve commented this like at least 20 times on your videos, but your channel is so good! Really appreciate the hard work you put into these
Mgu anyday. That more torque on the DJI will eat your drivetrain.
You gotta change chains, cassettes and chainring like what?.every 500 miles?.
The dji is an interesting bit of kit for sure but how is it sold as 250w motor when it’s pulling 25amps to reach 1000w that makes it 500w nominal.definitely skirting the law which makes it even more attractive to me!😂
i was waiting for this❤️
Why did Bosch put the same name badge on this next generation of CX Performance motor? Wouldn’t Bosch want to make at least a small indication that it’s new/different?
Why not use some power pedals to subtract out rider watts to more accurately determine motor watts?
also a question why the uphill is just around 30 seconds, what is quite the same time as the boost mode in DJI
2 questions. Is DJI legal pulling so much power, way over 250w? 2nd question, can Bosch decouple completely when turned off?
Nominal power (regulated to 250w) ≠ peak power. Nominal power is the power your motor can deliver anytime and permanently without risk of damaging the motor. Peak power on the other hand is the power your motor can do when it's needed, for example accelerating or rising uphill, but this cannot be done permanently (limited by overheating and shutting down power after a time). Just like a human who can ride flat at 20kmh no wind no problem, but accelerating or going uphill makes us sweat and we can't do that permanently.
Tldr: nominal power is limited to 250w (regulated by the government), the motor has to be designed to basically overheat when putting out more power.
Peak power on the other hand is not regulated and can be how much the manufacturer wants, he decides the absolute limit of the mechanical and electronic parts to be reliable without breaking or catching fire.
That's why Shimano can just put out a software update for the ep801 to deliver more power, because the peak power is theoretically unlimited, but limited by software and sensors from the manufacturer. practically for shorter durations, if you try to draw 2000 watts out of a Bosch CX the wires will start to burn after 3 seconds since they are not thick enough for the massive amounts of amps going through there (or battery) or the gear teeth will just break
As always another great quality video Rob cheers,DJI
motor package deffo on a nother level do you know anything about serviceability and after sale service for the UK and what happens when the warranty runs out will replacement motors be available wish they would be more transparent about all the things a lot of us would love to know before investing,do you have any insight cheers Rob.Always look forward to seeing new content keep them coming, thanks for all your hard work 😊💯
I wish some one would run this same test against the Luna cycle x2 with ludicrous
Very nice test, but what I'm really interested in is how the downhill performance of the DJI compares to the Orbea? A powerful motor isn't everything if the rest isn't right. A comparison would be really cool.
My feeling is the pinion is the most impressive step forward.
Good video. When you do the noise tests again please give us a bit of your voice on the bike so we have a reference for how loud they are. Thanks.
good point!
Not sure how I feel about more power than 80-90NM. Should eMTBs be closer to a mountain bike or closer to an emoto? 🤔 trail access is already a hard subject for eMTBs. If eMTBs become too powerful we could all loose access to some areas.
Great vid - did you do a range test , comparing the more powerful dji unit ?
My CYC Photon:
"hold my beer..."
My dentist is going to love this
Nice to see something new. Maybe it gets Bosch to speed up their improvement cycle.
Wish you would have also tested the DJI also on regular Turbo mode without the 30sec boost mode to get a comparison
It’s easy to reactivate boost mode, so I thought it would be interesting to see it in the most powerful mode :-)
@@RobRidesEMTB any word/estimate from DJI of when they’ll be coming to USA market?
❤❤Can you please provide the videos with German subtitles for German speakers??? Thank you very much and I wish you more success
❤❤
Only thing holding back the DJI is the fact that it’s on a trail bike. I’d love to see hard enduro spec
Me too!
@@sety409 It won't be long till another manufacturer has the DJI in a long travel Enduro chassis
Would be also fun to watch analog bike time to climb comparison with those ebikes
So is this really only a numbers game now? why?
Because it’s a motor test
If amflow comes out with some alloy versions count me in! Also a removal battery would awesome.
ZF announced a really neat new ebike motor. It uses strain wave gearing to make it VERY compact.
Is the DJI road legal then?
Yes
@@Ferdigrapher So 250w continuous, 850w peak?
Lately, everyone on YT is trying to sell the Amflow and its DJI motor but no one makes a test range.
I really see people getting excited with DJI’s turbo mode, then they ride around the block twice and return home to recharge the battery :)))) I'll leave the reliability tests to the early adopters who are the ones who always pay the biggest bill. There is something that I am already beginning to foresee with some concern. Soon we will no longer be able to take our bikes to the trails we love so much because they will be considered electric motorcycles. And still no one has remembered to mention the dangers of fire during the summer when we ride electric bicycles through the woods. I'm about to buy an Orbea Rise or Wild, I haven't decided yet - maybe the Wild because of the Bosch engine - but unfortunately I'm starting to think that I'm going to do this at a time when the law will start chasing us. Lots of regulation, conditioned access to trails and expensive insurance to name but a few. Exactly the same as what happened with drones. I hope I'm wrong.
As for range... i did a 26km ride in mostly turbo mode on a full 600wh battery on my Amflow the other day (weigh 70kg) Not loads of elevation, but a few steep climbs in the 30 sec boost mode etc... Finished the ride at about 3% battery. Once you get to 5% battery the assistance really drops off... The most fun bike ride i've had in a very long time!
@@willgreenfield My bike rides are usually between 45 and 50 km. The ascende varies according to the mood of the day :) I always try to do more than 500m. Now that I want to buy an e-bike, I don't want to do less. Rather the opposite. So I have to choose wiselly. Thank you very much for your testimony.
@@PGNogueira no problem! I think you should definitely be able to do that length of ride with the bigger 800wh battery and using the eco/trail/auto modes
@@willgreenfield Thank you once again.
Would love your feedback on the downhill performance of these bikes and also the upgrades on the Amflow. I feel some play in the cranks is good for reducing pedal kickback a bit like an Ochain.
Thanks for the great reviews. Really enjoy the channel.
This is coming for sure.
If the DJI had a gearbox and belt drive and remained as silent every other bike on the market would be obsolete. it makes sense that a bicycle builder wouldnt be the one to ace this category so long as they imported a good bike designer into the fold. It made all low power bikes obsolete already because its light weight and you can turn it down to 1% assist if you feel like a sadist so no excuses there. Imagine if 2025 brings a a gearbox and belt for 2 kgs more , RIP everyone else.
I’d really like to see the time in the top (non 30s boost) mode to see the comparison over a 5+ minute climb in a mode you can actually stay in.
Sweet fancy Moses those hill climb numbers!
Kudos to DJI for setting up the bar here for others to follow on their next gens. Just thinking with all that power comes with great wearability and tearability so lets see more consumer reviews in the next year and see how it goes.
09:32m Uff, that Pedal Kickback.
The advantage of the freewheel play on the Bosch is that a small O-Chain is installed, which massively reduces pedal kickback. On my Mondraker Level I have no pedal kickback at all, although the Mondraker rear ends actually have quite a lot of pedal kickback. My E*Thirteen hub has a 6° engagement angle, so relatively little, and yet I have no pedal kickback at all, even when I fully compress.
Seems like Bosch’s new motor is a generation 1, version 5, and the DJI is generation 2. It’d be great to see the pinion mated to the DJI motor.
happy with my shimano ep8 power….but it’s an integrated pinion gearbox motor that i want….go the pinion
Now optimize the software to bring us uphill traction control that enables easy re-starts on super steep terrain from a complete stand still. It’s what I struggled the most with on my Shimano EP8 emtb. And optimize energy efficiency and system longevity. Ty!
If each brand keeps going like this, they will pretty much be motor bikes, and it will make defending MTB trail use on an Ebike very difficult in places. Also, with the E-EDR series, are all the other brands going to be blown away on the power stages if someone races the DJI?
So the Dgi will get to the 15mph cut out a bit quicker than the Bosch and Pinion?
Can you let us know on the individual tests how they all performed over the 15mph please!
All that power and still all restricted to 25 km p/h 😂 😬
The only question is… which one would you buy for your own use?
It’s the Mgu Nikolai. 😅😊
I noticed on the bosch that pedalling backwards actually reversed the drive train 👌 that's got to be a first ?
🤔 It's definitely true how quickly the dji will eat, not just chains but also the complete drive train. A huge and expensive problem
How is the Nicolai's handling? with so much weight (battery) so much forward (close to head tube).
Sad that other bikes don't have interchangeable battery - disqualified :(
Rob! How are you liking the intend suspension so far? There are a few people on youtube that runs it/has ran it now, but still no real good content. You ride a lot of bikes, with a lot of different suspension. Is the intend stuff really as good as people say on forums etc? I have their brakes, and absolutely love them. And I have been meaning to try their suspension as well, but doing any real research on it isnt the easiest.
Nice video
A great match would be to combine the DGI with the Rohloff hub and Gates belt on a Riese and Muller.
6:00 when does it become too much power? With the Bosch it was smoother and looked like more of a workout. DJI looked more like a motorcycle.
Was good fun though!
It certainly looked it haha…
I wonder if the stock air shock locked out would stop the wheelie and make a faster climb time.
And fun is what will put smiles on customers faces and put their hand in their pockets. @@RobRidesEMTB
Great comparison! What upside down fork is that on the Nicolai? Thanks
Does the DJI use the industry standard mounting system? Can the DJI motor be purchased separately?
Now go back and do the amflow one without using boost mode please rob and will
Simply stunning, it will be pretty interesting see how this shows on real racing territory 💪🏽
The DJI has me surprised but lack of maintenance is a big deal for me. For that reason I would do the Pinion, unless the DJI is way lower cost.
the Amflow starts from almost the half of the Saturn MGU, but you will really quickly catch up with spending on chains, cassettes, tires
As for the pinion:
Less maintenance, means less total cost of ownership. That belt in theory will last 10000miles.
That’s about 30 chains and 10 cassettes.
(30 x £25 ) + (10 x £200) = £2750
And if you’re Rob… about 2000 derailleurs….
Removing that weight from the rear hub in theory should translate to better grip.
But that noise… jeeeez that might be a deal breaker for me. I’ll have to check the one at the local as I’m super curious what it’s like in the flesh. It can’t be THAT bad!
It’s only noisy in the first 4 gears. For our normal fire road climbs I’m always in 5+ !!!
It's the pinion for me, less maintenance is a W
De-rail-er. Not de-rail-I-er
But great review! I’d love to be able to buy the DJ motor by itself.
I would have liked it more to compare on the same mode "Turbo" and not using DJI's Boost. For the Pinion I think the MGU is more useful with a Commuter/Trekking Bike with a lot of stops at traffic lights and heavy lifting with baggage. That the MGU was put on EMTBs is beyond me, really. The new Bosch BDU38 seems to be a really decent update to Gen 4 (Sensors & Battery)
Every ebiker I know destroys their cassettes and chains. Feel the mgu makes the most sense, and the extra weight is fine since it's electric anyway
Jesus that Amflow gives me the horn.