Hey everyone! Outlier have reached out with a correction in their measurements: “The base of our platform sits 6mm below the centre of the axle. Most pedals place the platform ~6mm above the centre of the axle. This effectively lowers the rider’s centre of mass ~12mm". In my review I say that the platform itself has a 12mm drop, which is incorrect. This of course does not affect my riding impressions nor my take on the pedals themselves, but it's worth mentioning. Cheers
Well, I think it doesn't change the effective crank arm length, it only lowers the rider, as on the upper side of the paddle move, you are the same distance lower as well. What I would be concerned about is, that it enlarges the Q-factor, as I can't place my foot anymore just (not) touching the crank arm?! Maybe this could be solved by special crank arms, which already have the bearing included?!
@@kletterfreak814you’re right. I was more wondering from a pedal strike perspective. If you ride lots of techy areas, you may not want a 12mm lower pedal
@@almachao557 Well, I think, this is not true as far as it is for the pedal itself. It more or less is just a pedal with removed center and topside layer and it is instead very smooth on the bottom side!! Think he addresses this very well in the video? So, as long as you do not fear the increased risk of a toe strike (as of course your foot is lowered by this 12mm), I would think, this would not be the problem. But an increased Q-factor moves your foot a little bit more outwards, which may increase the risk of toe strike even more!
Wow!!! First MTB product I've seen in the last 10 years that looks to be an awsome inovation. Even though I ride and race clips and only ride flats in the park I'm very interested to give some a try.
I dunno. It sounds like enthusiasm for sure. A huge majority of pedal strikes are from not keeping one's toes up, meaning the front of the pedal should be up, not down catching on everything on the trail. Even on dirtbikes with huge ground clearance the foot needs to be toes up, or it will get caught and ripped off the peg or broke. The whole "pendulum" thing, Im not sure physics would agree. The pedal still pivots on an axle no matter how low the platform is. Again keeping the front of pedal and foot pointing up is what keeps you on the bike blasting thru what ever down a trail. Its kinda like this video is pointing out problems that can only be solved by a low rider pedal. Enthusiasm for sure. Im almost sure these pedals wont change pedal design for ever.
Before everyone gets worked up about a drop pedal platform. HiE Engineering developed this back in the 70s for road bikes. I still have a set. Later Shimano copied them. HiE never patented anything they did. same with large tube aluminum bike frames and the ratcheting mechanism in a few freehubs. Harlin Meyer was an aircraft engineer and brilliant. Always enjoyed talking with him. RiP brother.
Shimanos Dyna-Drive pedal system as used on the AX series was mostly about another invention though: Having the bearings inside the crank pedal threadhole. There wasn't a real drop to shimano dyna drive pedals, in fact they were designed to be level with the center of the pedal axis, not dropped down to act like a pendulum as the Outlier pedal. Eventually cyclists found out that bearings on shimano ax dyna drive pedals would wear out much quicker than on a normal pedal because the force wasn't between the bearings but on a much longer lever which meant much higher loading. Some of the weight saved by the short axle would need to go into the larger diameter bearings. So they weren't that much lighter either. Today it is a pain in the ass for any AX group set owner to find spare pedals with sound bearings and many Vintage bike collectors have to convert it back to normal pedals by using threaded inserts. I still think the idea was great because unlike the Outlier, the shimano solution did not change the Q-factor. Is it worth it to give up almost 100 years of pedal compatibility? Probably not.
@wiseoldman5841 awesome mention of Hi-E! There's a video from "The Yellow Sheldon" talking about (new old stock) Hi-E components pedal and some history behind it, as well as some hubs. (video: "WHATS IN THE BOX??!! Hi-E components")
For habitual flat pedal crank-pinchers (like myself), I wonder how difficult it would be to adapt to the wider Q-factor stance that is forced by the big bearings. I think there could be a lot of promise in a clipless design that has been dropped below the pedal axis though... Thanks for the video Ryan, always cool to see some Canadian goodies!
Thanks man! Personally, I’ve always wanted pedals with a wider Q factor, so these happened fit the bill nicely for me. I find that my foot pinches between the bearing cover and the outer pins, so it kind of gives that feeling of being up against the crank arms. But ya, suitable Q factor will be a case by case basis.
In my opinion not difficult at all of course it depends on your height and length of your legs. I enjoy my fat bike as much as my gravel bike and the gravel bike has a much narrower qfactor.
Been watching you for years and this was the kind of video that separates you from the rest that totally got me into videography, editing, mountain biking...everything. This is an awesome video, you riding is badass, but the package around it makes it your thing. Thanks dude!
Geoff Apps, the little known pioneer of English mountain biking, created many innovative designs released through his brand Cleland Cycles in the early 80s and beyond. Among those designs was a pedal similar to this one with an offset platform. Outlier’s design is innovative, but not exactly original. Apps, when researching the design, found patents for similar designs, the earliest dating back to 1904. I’ve been wanting to build something like this for years, I’m glad someone has done it. I think this design has a lot of potential. I live in an area of the Sierra Nevada with loads of rocky trails. I have regular pedals that have gone from having square edges to acquiring an organic rounded form on the outer corner over a few seasons of rock strikes. That’s the shape the pedal “wants” to have, so why not build a pedal that starts with that shape, and design for the inevitability of rock strikes that are a part of riding rocky, technical trails. Outlier has done that. Kudos to them. I’m interested to try a set of these and see how the design evolves.
@@arandomJohn I had a set of Deore pedals with the same technology comethrough the shop once and Im still doing back flips everytime i talk about them. I NEED a bike with these kinds of pedals on them yesterday. Im so excited to see this design being brought back into play and where it goes from here.
@ Those were cool. I especially liked the Dura Ace AX ones. A couple more recent examples of axle-less pedals are the Tioga MT Zero and the FlyPaper flat pedal designs.
The front of a Catalyst pedal, is already angled like that. They arent for everybody but I have great luck with them, I also use composite PNW pedals and they are quieter on rock hits, and cheap enough to be somewhat disposable after a year or 2.
Another hidden benefit that i love about these, as a taller rider with very long legs i can potentially get a more inside the bike feel with a 12mm lower saddle height. Damn it you have me interested, why are these so expensive lol.
CNC machined...hence that price. With that asymmetrical shape and fine finish, it'd be tough to get this result with other manufacturing processes. I could see this CF-molded eventually.
Shimano Dyna Drive road pedals from the 80s were similar but the bearing sat within the crank pedal threads which required a proprietary crank. Alexi Grewal won the Olympic road race on them. He loved them. I would think bearing wear might be an issue with a riders weight hanging off them.
Yep...this. Came to say the same! What's old is new again friends! I rode those pedals back in the 80's too and they were really nice! (Get off my lawn!!!)
I remembered the Dura Ace ax as well. Looking it up, I found they released EX two years prior, in 1978. I think what killed those was the none standard crank to pedal interface.
Sweet to see somebody finally did this. I've always wondered what a pedal designed like this would be like. I think the ultimate solution would be to redesign the crank to integrate the bearings into the arm to reduce the total q factor. Obviously, that would be a much harder sell if you had to buy their proprietary cranks too, but maybe someday that's what we'll all be riding. A lot of conventional pedal designs could benefit from that as well, especially the super thin ones.
I can still see bearing replacements needed. So, I will got with taking the bearings out to the pedals, not the cranks. Bearings in the cranks also creates a 2nd place that can fail, or wear causing crank failure.
Also that would increase radial load on the bearing and require a much larger bearing. Meaning also requires a larger radius at the end of the crank to whack on things
This has been done before. There was a small company that designed a pedal called the FlyPaper that was ultra thin without an axle. They also prototyped a version that put the bearings in the crank arm. Obviously that means proprietary cranks, but I think the idea has merit and would reduce the Q factor of something like this Outlier design, as you mentioned.
@@davidsilvas9441 Obviously the bearings would be replaceable. And the pedals would be just a simple piece of machined aluminum with pins and a threaded end that bolts through the bearings in the crank arm. This would allow for potentially larger bearings as well compared trying to squeeze tiny bearings into the pedals to keep the profile thin.
@@mattschirle Would be cool... a ti singlepiece pedal with a narrow shoulder.. heck, you could even engineer the amount of spring in it... and double bearings in the cranks... this company would likely need to engineer the cranks and pedals at the same time to get an optimal combo, but heck, there's pedals that cost more then most of my bikes and cranks that cost more then any of my bikes... so... either way, will be a while X).* Make the combo out of titanium and charge 500 bucks and it would fly like hotcakes crappy economy or not. Much needed innovation... now make it affordable..
I wear a prosthesis below knee, & I have been looking for something more with flat pedals! I love the innovation and think this could work! Though it appears the innovation magic is not cheap!
A replaceable composite cover panel for the bottom would instill some confidence that a root/stick isn’t going to find its way into the opening on the bottom. Would make for a great design for BMX riders who do pedal grinds.
I think there is such a bmx pedal, sort of, but I couldn't find it when trying to look it up. They didn't lower the platform or cut out the center, but one side is smooth and has a LOT more plastic to go through, which I imagine also might give enough ballast they could self-right like these are designed to
As a very tall rider at 6'8" this is not only great performance wise but would FINALLY allow me to be down into the bike some. 17mm is massive for someone rocking seatposts as high up as mine.
I ride the pedal innovations pedals because of you actually. I've loved them so I give these a try as well. Ordered, hopefully arrives in spring. Fingers crossed
Wow. Why don't the big brands come up with truely innovative ideas like this? No stupid electronic gears or seatpost, no tuned mass / steering dampers that make no sense on bicycles, no unnecessarily expensive materials, just really good understanding of the mechanics of bike riding and what actually matters. Can't blame them for charging a hefty price regardless, they clearly put a lot of effort into optimising the thickness to perfection. Too bad I can't justify the purchase myself - I anyway mostly ride clipped in these days, though I wonder if these pedals might even be so good to make clips unnecessary.
Any good modern flat pedal combined with the right flat pedal shoe, makes clips unnecessary. Its like velcro between shoe and pedal. I went flats 5 years ago, not once has my foot come flying off. Maybe they can bounce a little on big hits . Standing plants the foot very solidly on pedal. I dont see me spending 300.00 on pedals. The average ride would not be doing so either.
@@bradsanders6954 I have nothing against flat pedals, I used them all the time when I was living near actual mountains and needed the flat shoes for the passages where I had to carry the bike. Also for trials. Yes, a good flat pedal+shoes combo gives plenty of grip, but there's one thing that still makes me prefer clips: they hold on even when you're putting force through in completely wrong directions. On longer rides with flats I tend to fatigue or develop back pain because the pedalling motion has to be always pretty much the same. Clips allow all kinds of variation, whether pulling up the pedals or tilting the feet way forward or detaching one foot and pedalling only with the other for a while. Also, on downhill they give just a bit more secure hold than flats.
Okay, I've been really impressed this whole video because these look amazing. I don't ride much but grew up with a bike. But it was the cherry on top when you said these are made in Calgary. I was born here 😊 love that these are made in Calgary
Very interesting product - I love to see the outside of the box thinking. I gave up on flats a couple of years ago due to my feet bouncing off the pedals all the time so would be keen to give these a shot.
Canfield has been making ultra low profile pedals with interrupted axles for decades, and while they don’t drop your feet below the axle, because they are still 2 sided, they do get pretty close. I had some for years and they do make a difference in terms of holding your feet on, for the same reason you explain in the video. I can see how these would take that to the next level.
Another advantage that I see is that, when your foot is off the pedal, the pedal levels out horizontally, whereas symmetrical pedals can rest in any orientation. This, combined with the large, tall bearing and absence of axle, should make repositioning your foot on the pedal after a dab or dismount, quite a bit easier.
I'm super intrigued. I'm also a long time rider of the Pedaling Innovations pedals and every time I try something else, it's just not as good. I'll be picking a pair of these up. Good stuff Ryan!
Once you explained the physics behind it it clicked and I realized these really might be the next big flat pedal innovation. For anyone having trouble understanding, imagine if you put a block of wood the on top of your pedals and try and keep it balanced. The pedal will want to just rotate and throw the block of wood off, beceause you have weight balanced ontop of the pivot point. By moving the weight below the pivot point it becomes much more stable. Dammit I just bought new pedals and now I really want to try these, I guess the saving grace is I wouldn't have been able to afford them anyway lol
Similar to Shimano DynaDrive from 40 years ago. Shimano has patent's but this might be different enough to slip by. I did see another manufacturer try this about 10 or 15 years ago. I've been expecting this technology to return. Pedaling in a circle around the BB axis is definitely better than pedaling in an ellipse above the center of rotation. Unlike DynaDrive, the Pendulum bearings aren't nested in the crank which pushes the Q factor out, but I believe that's more of an issue for road bikes than mountain bikes. I'm not surprised you like them.
It’s $214USD. I just put in the preorder for black. Sounds like it’s going to be awesome for me on all fronts. Also as far as the pendulum part it makes perfect sense. Some have questioned that but if you think about a normal pedal is holding you higher than the pivot point, when you slam on the brakes even on smooth ground your body mass is going forward. Because you’re above that pivot your pedals tilt down in the front and you have now unweighted the pins slightly. Unless you pre angle your heels down a lot to counter it, your ankles and calves are fighting that tilt forward action especially on braking bumps. But with these pedals underneath the pivot, you would be swinging backwards and therefore heels would dip and toes go up but also you’d be digging more weight/force right into the pins which would obviously give you more stability and traction. Now separate issue: I just bought a couple months ago a set of 10mm shorter cranks on my large size orbea rise. From 170mm to 160mm (I’m 6’1”) and I love them so much. They changed so much how the bike felt that I got 165mm from 175 for my analog road bike as well and am so glad. I was concerned about these making the cranks feel long again but then was wondering if it would just be making the same size circle (top pedal in the rotation is also lower so diameter is the same) but just be moving the center lower than the bottom bracket pivot rather than above it like usual and therefore it changes nothing or if it feels different in the rotation like having an oval chainring or something. Can’t wait to find out. And I get to lower my seat 12mm which bring my COG lower too!
One thing you didn't mention that concerns me a bit is the protruding section closest to the crank arm. If you ride close to the crank currently, you will have to adjust your foot position out by 10+ mm
Yea in the video his shoe was hanging off the outside edge by quite a lot. I think that feeling would drive me crazy, like my foot could never feel securely centered on the pedal.
Most of us have scraped up crank arms from our shoes, here the axle increase the Qfactor by at least 30mm I would guess. Curious if it works for everyone.
As long as the bearing and axel are strong enough this seems like a design where everything makes sense. Like almost no tradeoffs, except maybe the smaller foot hole, but that seems easily solvable.
With that space for "other activities" they could totally make a clipless version of this by sticking a SPD clip mechanism in there. DH racers might actually try a clipless version of that.
The entire idea, is not using clips. If you use clips you use a stiff soled show that negates the need for a huge pedal. Dont need support of the pedal.
A really slick and elegant upgrade to something we all thought little could be done to improve - Pedals. Makes me wonder how many other aspects of bikes that dont get much design ingenuity anymore because we thought it had reached its design limits, probably several! I wonder what the weight limits are as a heavy rider?
Silicone electrical tape on my brake levers. No frozen finger tips because of the insulating effect of the silicone. Wrap using a spiral, like applying grip tape to road-bike bars. It's a self adhering tape that needs clean hands when you apply it.
I wonder if they correct themselves quickly enough for one footers, or if they might still be pendulum-ing mid air while I’m trying to get my foot back on 🤔
Reading the info on the pedal website, looks like the point of having nothing in the middle is for the shoe to flex a bit and create even more bite and traction into the pedal.
Nice video! I think an error though: the offset will be subtracted from the top AND thr bottom of the pedal stroke so no net effect on effective crank length.
6:39 this angle is misleading, as the top of the pedal on the left sits below the crank, but you lined up its top face with the normal pedal (which sits above the crank). Making it look like there’s increased ground clearance
but in that shot, he wasn't trying to show increased ground clearance, rather the difference in thickness of the pedal towards the outside, which somewhat compensates the new pedal sitting lower. He even said at 6:00 that yes the ground clearance difference "is not nothing" but in practice not nearly as bad because of the shape, which the shot at 6:39 was illustrating.
I have some issues with the design: 1. I run my dropper post slammed so to run these pedals I'd need a shorter one. 2. I wonder how they'll stand up to rock strikes or heavy landings that would bend many pedal axles! (rather a bent pedal than a snapped one) 3. I wonder how they'll perform when the bearings get old, it might prevent them self-righting and ending up with your foot on the back of the pedal.
I've just purchased a set of these. I get the price might put some people off but at my stage of life I have some disposable income and these are a cool idea I want to support. We have gotten used to china producing rubbish for “cheap”. I was a furniture maker and I know how much work goes in to the production of something like this.
a lot of work because they use a CNC on a block of aluminium (aka machine work, not human work). If you mold the aluminium at the right shape and you use tools only at the bearing socket where some precision is needed, it would be much cheaper in greater production.
Kinda sick. I would almost prefer *some* material in the center, just to help deflect things in the unlikely event something managed to come up from the bottom into the opening, and I'm a bit skeptical of that spindle as well... but they've made their way onto my wish list. Super unique design and super cool to support an Alberta product.
If you have 3 bikes, you need 3 pair of these pedals. 900.00 + tax/shipping. If a stick did come up inside the pedal, it could easily launch you 20 feet down the trail with out the bike. Or go thru your shoe. No point thinking about it.
@@bradsanders6954 I wouldn't want these on all my bikes, I seems like more of a "Big Bike" pedal. the benefits don't seem as pronounced for a trial or XC bike
The self-correcting part makes total sense coming from road cycling. Clipless road pedals always have the same orientation because one side of it is heavier than the other. Different weight distribution, same principle as these.
The extra offset of the pedals won't lengthen your cranks from a leverage point of view, only your body position. Very pretty design though. Are they stainless steel?
Wow, honestly impressed by the design. Not many real innovations have been made or can be in a long time but this really looks like an improvement over the standard, especially with the short crank trend. If I were in the market for new cranks, these pedals would also be in the cross hairs.
6:50 The bolt heads protruding like that will become a problem after lots of rock strikes, and I'd pay close attention to their condition if I owned these pedals so you will be able to get them out if need be. The main issue I have with my Oneup Aluminum pedals is landing my feet on top of the big bearing, and seeing the sheer size of that thing on these pedals I know that will become an issue here as well. Personally I would change crank arm length regardless, and I feel rock strikes couldn't have been an issue with your bike and setup prior to installing these pedals and the terrain you ride in. That thing somewhat worked out for you doesn't mean it automatically will for someone else, because there's so many different bike geo's and kind of terrain people ride, and how people ride, and what kind of components etc. On top of that people got to understand this was only a test for you which costed you nothing but an experience of testing a product. For the everyday consumer I'd never jump on these without some proper evaluation first.
This design has been used before by Shimano actually. the dura ace ax pedal is a road toe clip pedal (ie: toe strape and cages, not clipless) from the 80s that required a proprietary crankset, but did have the platform lower than the spindle of the pedal. i'd be really interested to see how much bending these pedals take on after a year of moderate to heavy usage, and in what terrain.
As soon as I saw the thumbnail I could see the benefits as far as grip, didn't really think about what other benefits there would be. They make a lot of sense, but as with a lot of people, cost is a massive factor for me.
Dura ace AX cranks and pedals from the early 80s had a pedal platform that was in line with the center of the pedal axis. But they required the proprietary crank to go with them (it had a 1” hole for the pedal axle to screw into).
I had an idea like this in the past it’s funny to see that it’s actually done now! I’m surprised you didn’t mention the main subject, the riders peddling circle is now corrected. Now that they’re not peddling above the axle-you get a proper circle shape when peddling... That was my thought at least🤔 Cool video, they look well made!
Okay, dumb question perhaps, but who actually makes these pedals and how would I order? I don't see any of that actually mentioned in the video or description, except to say that the model name is called pendulum.
As urban rider MTB pedals are the best exactly for grip problems, that aside, having also to accelerate at traffic speeds I'm having serious doubts the hollow platform would be practical as the tip of the foot over the axle is used for sprint pedal strokes.
You shouldn't be adjusting your foot position for sprinting. While everyone is built a little different, the optimal position is having the ball of your foot slightly in front of the pedal axle. From a bio-mechanical standpoint this allows your foot to properly absorb the force you are applying. Having the ball of your foot behind the axle (i.e. the tip of the foot over the axle as you stated) puts stress on the front of your foot which it isn't designed for. Long term riding like this can lead to discomfort and numbness while on the bike. Don't take my word for it. Look up any bike fit video/article that talks about foot placement. A common mistake for novice riders to to have the ball of their foot on top, or behind, the pedal axle which leads to problems. Also, if you've been riding like that for awhile then the correct position is going to feel weird/bad. That's normal, because your body will take time to adjust. Give it a few weeks and your body will adjust, and your feet will thank you.
@ Hey thanks for your feedback! I've been riding 20 years with flat pedals so I know a thing or two as well, the numbness arises when forcing the body sustain what isn't adapted to do or simply just it can't, clip-less pedals are relatively worse in that regard since doesn't allow the foot to apply different positions for different pedal stances like a max sprint lasts 12 seconds or so then the foot recovers no problem, a climb stance is different part of the foot but well perhaps it's too advanced this stuff 😜
I had a chance to try these pedals and I didn't like them for two reason. I'm a size 11 shoe and I hated how 25% my shoe soul would hang off the side of the pedal due to the bearing area being so big. You can acutally see this issue in this video. It's very uncomfortable. I don't have this issue with my TMAC padels. Second I hated how my foot would rub against the drop part of the pedal. Basically where the bearing sits. Also when taking a foot off the pedal and putting it back on while the bike is moving, my foot would always hit the drop spindle/ bearing area first then slide off and back onto the pedal, but with half my foot off the pedal. I would always have to reposition my foot. For me these pedals are a hard pass. Also $300 for thsee pedals is insane.
I belive Tioga used to have pedals similar to these, back in the early 90's. one benefit of dropping the sole of your foor lower is, that the roration point moves closer to your ankle, reducing stress on that joint.
@ I had a set on my evil following where after landing a small jump pedal threads just ripped out. Replaced them and same thing happened again. Then got a pair of the free ride ones for my Commencal supreme and one rock strike and same thing happened.
I get it right, we have major upgraded bike machines, only make sense to upgrade the pedals. be interesting in trying, BUT I am Amazed and So frekin happy with my Hustle Labs Magnet pedals, its a game changer in the best way.
Shimano had Dyna Drive pedals over 40 years ago. Look them up. Shimano also made special cranks exclusively for the pedals. The pedal spindle was larger in diameter than standard, so the hole in the special crank was larger to accommodate them. The Dynas were made for road bikes, but the idea is the same.
Love the idea. I'd give them a go on my trail bike in a heartbeat! I don't think they'll replace the predominance of clipless for enduro, even if they came out with a clipless version, mostly for the climbing sections of the races. Being able to generate power on both the push and pull side of the cranks is still such a huge benefit. It might make its way into DH tho, and that would be interesting to see.
@@ThisGuyRides composite pedals work ebcasue of the steel axle runnin gup th emiddle of them..... not sure it would work here. I am tempted to try though and put together a set of these using formlabs 2000 tough resin
Ordered a set to try out. I had previously thought that a platform that was lower than the axle might make some sense. Looking forward to giving them a try.
Shimano did something pretty similar in the early 80s with dura ace 7200. Though those pedals were made for "self unalive" clips and not flats and required proprietary crankarms for the jumbo axle threads
This is actually clever. Back in the days we used to ride trial, and wellgo MGs was popular pedals for that with nice greepy threaded in bolt-spikes. So som eof the guys used to unscrew bolt-spikes from one pedal side to preserve them as spares, and used bolt-holes to bolt down a little plate weight - it forced a pedal to rotate weight-down and spikes-up every time when pedal ws accidentally miss-aligned.
Very compelling. With feet on the small end of the recommendation and a big hole to grab anything sticking up, the hollow middle remains my only reservation. Still eager to give them a shot
Just looking at them I can see how they fix most pedal issues. Only issue i can see is getting a stick through the hole into the bottom of your foot. But a thin plate or grid right at the bottom would stop that. I'd buy a set.
Back in the LenoskyChase street days... Yes I made a Chase mod neutral gear for long fakie tricks. But I also made an .049 chromoly grind plate that wrapped around three sides of my pedal with half the pins taken out and screwed in through the reflector holes. It was slick and nice and also self centering.
I I am massively impressed by the performance of these pedals from all that I’ve seen on the video. What impressed me the most was how the pedal goes back to the resting position and the pins are will always see the underneath of my shoe but it’s one of those products for $299.99 or 300 quid a simply can’t afford them although I would love to because I think the concept is brilliant the way they’ve been put into practice is brilliant and seem to be an amazing invention or an innovation on the current pedal design.
Hey everyone! Outlier have reached out with a correction in their measurements: “The base of our platform sits 6mm below the centre of the axle. Most pedals place the platform ~6mm above the centre of the axle. This effectively lowers the rider’s centre of mass ~12mm". In my review I say that the platform itself has a 12mm drop, which is incorrect. This of course does not affect my riding impressions nor my take on the pedals themselves, but it's worth mentioning. Cheers
Does this mean if you normally run 165 cranks you should drop down to 155 with these pedals?
Well, I think it doesn't change the effective crank arm length, it only lowers the rider, as on the upper side of the paddle move, you are the same distance lower as well.
What I would be concerned about is, that it enlarges the Q-factor, as I can't place my foot anymore just (not) touching the crank arm?! Maybe this could be solved by special crank arms, which already have the bearing included?!
@@kletterfreak814you’re right. I was more wondering from a pedal strike perspective. If you ride lots of techy areas, you may not want a 12mm lower pedal
@@almachao557
Well, I think, this is not true as far as it is for the pedal itself. It more or less is just a pedal with removed center and topside layer and it is instead very smooth on the bottom side!! Think he addresses this very well in the video?
So, as long as you do not fear the increased risk of a toe strike (as of course your foot is lowered by this 12mm), I would think, this would not be the problem. But an increased Q-factor moves your foot a little bit more outwards, which may increase the risk of toe strike even more!
@@kletterfreak814 it does change the effective length, but the length is not static and depends on the crank arm (and pedal) angle.
Wow!!!
First MTB product I've seen in the last 10 years that looks to be an awsome inovation.
Even though I ride and race clips and only ride flats in the park I'm very interested to give some a try.
@@johnpetersen1043 based on an idea from Geoff Apps, the Howarth swing pedals. Which was originally based on an idea from 1904.
The only issue I see is there are not enough short cracks. There are almost no 160 or 157.5 cranks.
@@ReinhardSchuster cracks or cranks?
@@ReinhardSchuster Middleburn RS 7 X cranks, Rotor Aldhu cranks, TA Specialites, Hope Tech Evo, Sturdy cycles titanium, Unite Enduro, Canfield.
Raceface Atlas, Sram GX…readily available and cheap 165’s and have them on all my bikes.
It's nutty how simple and genius that design seems. I might have to order a pair as a Christmas gift to myself 😂
I dunno. It sounds like enthusiasm for sure. A huge majority of pedal strikes are from not keeping one's toes up, meaning the front of the pedal should be up, not down catching on everything on the trail.
Even on dirtbikes with huge ground clearance the foot needs to be toes up, or it will get caught and ripped off the peg or broke.
The whole "pendulum" thing, Im not sure physics would agree. The pedal still pivots on an axle no matter how low the platform is. Again keeping the front of pedal and foot pointing up is what keeps you on the bike blasting thru what ever down a trail. Its kinda like this video is pointing out problems that can only be solved by a low rider pedal.
Enthusiasm for sure. Im almost sure these pedals wont change pedal design for ever.
$300 pedals. Good lord...
I was on your bandwagon, then I got to the price... I might have wait until tax return time.
@@fuskeiro79 ....YIKES !
CNC or 3d print them.
Before everyone gets worked up about a drop pedal platform. HiE Engineering developed this back in the 70s for road bikes. I still have a set. Later Shimano copied them. HiE never patented anything they did. same with large tube aluminum bike frames and the ratcheting mechanism in a few freehubs. Harlin Meyer was an aircraft engineer and brilliant. Always enjoyed talking with him. RiP brother.
Shimanos Dyna-Drive pedal system as used on the AX series was mostly about another invention though: Having the bearings inside the crank pedal threadhole. There wasn't a real drop to shimano dyna drive pedals, in fact they were designed to be level with the center of the pedal axis, not dropped down to act like a pendulum as the Outlier pedal.
Eventually cyclists found out that bearings on shimano ax dyna drive pedals would wear out much quicker than on a normal pedal because the force wasn't between the bearings but on a much longer lever which meant much higher loading. Some of the weight saved by the short axle would need to go into the larger diameter bearings. So they weren't that much lighter either.
Today it is a pain in the ass for any AX group set owner to find spare pedals with sound bearings and many Vintage bike collectors have to convert it back to normal pedals by using threaded inserts.
I still think the idea was great because unlike the Outlier, the shimano solution did not change the Q-factor. Is it worth it to give up almost 100 years of pedal compatibility? Probably not.
@wiseoldman5841 awesome mention of Hi-E! There's a video from "The Yellow Sheldon" talking about (new old stock) Hi-E components pedal and some history behind it, as well as some hubs. (video: "WHATS IN THE BOX??!! Hi-E components")
For habitual flat pedal crank-pinchers (like myself), I wonder how difficult it would be to adapt to the wider Q-factor stance that is forced by the big bearings. I think there could be a lot of promise in a clipless design that has been dropped below the pedal axis though... Thanks for the video Ryan, always cool to see some Canadian goodies!
Yeah, that bearing is massive and will definitely force a wider stance. I'm used to riding with my foot practically touching the crank arm.
I would love to see you do a review on these.
Would love to see a single sided clipless version of this.
Thanks man! Personally, I’ve always wanted pedals with a wider Q factor, so these happened fit the bill nicely for me. I find that my foot pinches between the bearing cover and the outer pins, so it kind of gives that feeling of being up against the crank arms. But ya, suitable Q factor will be a case by case basis.
In my opinion not difficult at all of course it depends on your height and length of your legs. I enjoy my fat bike as much as my gravel bike and the gravel bike has a much narrower qfactor.
Been watching you for years and this was the kind of video that separates you from the rest that totally got me into videography, editing, mountain biking...everything. This is an awesome video, you riding is badass, but the package around it makes it your thing. Thanks dude!
Geoff Apps, the little known pioneer of English mountain biking, created many innovative designs released through his brand Cleland Cycles in the early 80s and beyond. Among those designs was a pedal similar to this one with an offset platform. Outlier’s design is innovative, but not exactly original. Apps, when researching the design, found patents for similar designs, the earliest dating back to 1904. I’ve been wanting to build something like this for years, I’m glad someone has done it. I think this design has a lot of potential. I live in an area of the Sierra Nevada with loads of rocky trails. I have regular pedals that have gone from having square edges to acquiring an organic rounded form on the outer corner over a few seasons of rock strikes. That’s the shape the pedal “wants” to have, so why not build a pedal that starts with that shape, and design for the inevitability of rock strikes that are a part of riding rocky, technical trails. Outlier has done that. Kudos to them. I’m interested to try a set of these and see how the design evolves.
Shimano Dyna Drive pedals from the 1970’s are another example of a similar design.
@@arandomJohn I had a set of Deore pedals with the same technology comethrough the shop once and Im still doing back flips everytime i talk about them. I NEED a bike with these kinds of pedals on them yesterday. Im so excited to see this design being brought back into play and where it goes from here.
@ Those were cool. I especially liked the Dura Ace AX ones. A couple more recent examples of axle-less pedals are the Tioga MT Zero and the FlyPaper flat pedal designs.
Haworth Swing Pedal
The front of a Catalyst pedal, is already angled like that. They arent for everybody but I have great luck with them,
I also use composite PNW pedals and they are quieter on rock hits, and cheap enough to be somewhat disposable after a year or 2.
Another hidden benefit that i love about these, as a taller rider with very long legs i can potentially get a more inside the bike feel with a 12mm lower saddle height. Damn it you have me interested, why are these so expensive lol.
Cad and not usd
@@evilspoon88 I am aware
CNC machined...hence that price. With that asymmetrical shape and fine finish, it'd be tough to get this result with other manufacturing processes. I could see this CF-molded eventually.
Couldn't you just buy a bike with a lower bb... Of course there is a downside to the lower bb which is why the bb isn't on the floor to begin with.
also basically translates to needing less stack height at the bars. and can keep my bb at 0
Blurring out the shoe inserting into the pedal's innards is by far the best part of this video 😂
Agreed!
Shimano Dyna Drive road pedals from the 80s were similar but the bearing sat within the crank pedal threads which required a proprietary crank. Alexi Grewal won the Olympic road race on them. He loved them. I would think bearing wear might be an issue with a riders weight hanging off them.
Yep...this. Came to say the same! What's old is new again friends! I rode those pedals back in the 80's too and they were really nice! (Get off my lawn!!!)
Yup, it's what I immediately thought of. Have a pair I should try out one day on an ax crank.
I remembered the Dura Ace ax as well. Looking it up, I found they released EX two years prior, in 1978. I think what killed those was the none standard crank to pedal interface.
Sweet to see somebody finally did this. I've always wondered what a pedal designed like this would be like. I think the ultimate solution would be to redesign the crank to integrate the bearings into the arm to reduce the total q factor. Obviously, that would be a much harder sell if you had to buy their proprietary cranks too, but maybe someday that's what we'll all be riding. A lot of conventional pedal designs could benefit from that as well, especially the super thin ones.
I can still see bearing replacements needed. So, I will got with taking the bearings out to the pedals, not the cranks. Bearings in the cranks also creates a 2nd place that can fail, or wear causing crank failure.
Also that would increase radial load on the bearing and require a much larger bearing. Meaning also requires a larger radius at the end of the crank to whack on things
This has been done before. There was a small company that designed a pedal called the FlyPaper that was ultra thin without an axle. They also prototyped a version that put the bearings in the crank arm. Obviously that means proprietary cranks, but I think the idea has merit and would reduce the Q factor of something like this Outlier design, as you mentioned.
@@davidsilvas9441 Obviously the bearings would be replaceable. And the pedals would be just a simple piece of machined aluminum with pins and a threaded end that bolts through the bearings in the crank arm. This would allow for potentially larger bearings as well compared trying to squeeze tiny bearings into the pedals to keep the profile thin.
@@mattschirle Would be cool... a ti singlepiece pedal with a narrow shoulder.. heck, you could even engineer the amount of spring in it... and double bearings in the cranks...
this company would likely need to engineer the cranks and pedals at the same time to get an optimal combo, but heck, there's pedals that cost more then most of my bikes and cranks that cost more then any of my bikes... so... either way, will be a while X).*
Make the combo out of titanium and charge 500 bucks and it would fly like hotcakes crappy economy or not.
Much needed innovation... now make it affordable..
🤯 Brilliant! I've had countless pairs of flats over the years looking for perfection. Turns out that I didn't know what I was looking for. Ordered...
I wear a prosthesis below knee, & I have been looking for something more with flat pedals! I love the innovation and think this could work! Though it appears the innovation magic is not cheap!
That's so cool you're still mountain biking!
There are other options, such as swing cranks from High path, or pendulum cranks.
A replaceable composite cover panel for the bottom would instill some confidence that a root/stick isn’t going to find its way into the opening on the bottom. Would make for a great design for BMX riders who do pedal grinds.
New type of pedal strike. If a root goes in that pedal you are going down.
Aw man , that is a new fear unlocked. 😣
I think there is such a bmx pedal, sort of, but I couldn't find it when trying to look it up. They didn't lower the platform or cut out the center, but one side is smooth and has a LOT more plastic to go through, which I imagine also might give enough ballast they could self-right like these are designed to
Eclat juggernaut. They are great but unfortunetly they do not self correct to the right side. This with flat nylon cover will be excellent
Can you tell in simple people terms Randy aint following
As a very tall rider at 6'8" this is not only great performance wise but would FINALLY allow me to be down into the bike some. 17mm is massive for someone rocking seatposts as high up as mine.
I ride the pedal innovations pedals because of you actually. I've loved them so I give these a try as well. Ordered, hopefully arrives in spring. Fingers crossed
Wow. Why don't the big brands come up with truely innovative ideas like this? No stupid electronic gears or seatpost, no tuned mass / steering dampers that make no sense on bicycles, no unnecessarily expensive materials, just really good understanding of the mechanics of bike riding and what actually matters.
Can't blame them for charging a hefty price regardless, they clearly put a lot of effort into optimising the thickness to perfection. Too bad I can't justify the purchase myself - I anyway mostly ride clipped in these days, though I wonder if these pedals might even be so good to make clips unnecessary.
Shimano did this back in the '80s, Dura ace and 600 AX
Any good modern flat pedal combined with the right flat pedal shoe, makes clips unnecessary.
Its like velcro between shoe and pedal. I went flats 5 years ago, not once has my foot come flying off.
Maybe they can bounce a little on big hits . Standing plants the foot very solidly on pedal.
I dont see me spending 300.00 on pedals. The average ride would not be doing so either.
@@bradsanders6954 I have nothing against flat pedals, I used them all the time when I was living near actual mountains and needed the flat shoes for the passages where I had to carry the bike. Also for trials. Yes, a good flat pedal+shoes combo gives plenty of grip, but there's one thing that still makes me prefer clips: they hold on even when you're putting force through in completely wrong directions. On longer rides with flats I tend to fatigue or develop back pain because the pedalling motion has to be always pretty much the same. Clips allow all kinds of variation, whether pulling up the pedals or tilting the feet way forward or detaching one foot and pedalling only with the other for a while.
Also, on downhill they give just a bit more secure hold than flats.
You haven't ridden with transmission yet have you? In an enduro race, it's amazing
You kinda look at it wrong, You still dont have to buy all this stuff. But without it, we wouldnt have what we do atm.
Okay, I've been really impressed this whole video because these look amazing. I don't ride much but grew up with a bike. But it was the cherry on top when you said these are made in Calgary. I was born here 😊 love that these are made in Calgary
Amazing. I’ve also been running Pedaling Innovations pedals for years. Just ordered these - can’t wait to try them out!
Same here - using pedaling innovations on my road bike, have been considering getting them for the MTB, but might just do these instead.
Very interesting product - I love to see the outside of the box thinking. I gave up on flats a couple of years ago due to my feet bouncing off the pedals all the time so would be keen to give these a shot.
Canfield has been making ultra low profile pedals with interrupted axles for decades, and while they don’t drop your feet below the axle, because they are still 2 sided, they do get pretty close. I had some for years and they do make a difference in terms of holding your feet on, for the same reason you explain in the video. I can see how these would take that to the next level.
Yep. And 45degree NRTH also had an ultra thin, no-spindle pedal.
The Crampons are awesome!!
Thanks!
100% checking into these. i refuse to ride anything but a platform pedal and these seem like a huge game changer
Really love this video, and a great explanation of these pedals. Sooo tempted to get them, the below the bearing element make so much sense.
Another advantage that I see is that, when your foot is off the pedal, the pedal levels out horizontally, whereas symmetrical pedals can rest in any orientation. This, combined with the large, tall bearing and absence of axle, should make repositioning your foot on the pedal after a dab or dismount, quite a bit easier.
Maybe they do, maybe they donr
I'm super intrigued. I'm also a long time rider of the Pedaling Innovations pedals and every time I try something else, it's just not as good. I'll be picking a pair of these up. Good stuff Ryan!
Super interesting. I just ordered a set and I can't wait to give them a try.
Tell Randy how it was
Once you explained the physics behind it it clicked and I realized these really might be the next big flat pedal innovation.
For anyone having trouble understanding, imagine if you put a block of wood the on top of your pedals and try and keep it balanced. The pedal will want to just rotate and throw the block of wood off, beceause you have weight balanced ontop of the pivot point. By moving the weight below the pivot point it becomes much more stable.
Dammit I just bought new pedals and now I really want to try these, I guess the saving grace is I wouldn't have been able to afford them anyway lol
Similar to Shimano DynaDrive from 40 years ago. Shimano has patent's but this might be different enough to slip by. I did see another manufacturer try this about 10 or 15 years ago. I've been expecting this technology to return. Pedaling in a circle around the BB axis is definitely better than pedaling in an ellipse above the center of rotation. Unlike DynaDrive, the Pendulum bearings aren't nested in the crank which pushes the Q factor out, but I believe that's more of an issue for road bikes than mountain bikes. I'm not surprised you like them.
Design patents are good for 20 years max.
It’s $214USD. I just put in the preorder for black. Sounds like it’s going to be awesome for me on all fronts.
Also as far as the pendulum part it makes perfect sense. Some have questioned that but if you think about a normal pedal is holding you higher than the pivot point, when you slam on the brakes even on smooth ground your body mass is going forward. Because you’re above that pivot your pedals tilt down in the front and you have now unweighted the pins slightly. Unless you pre angle your heels down a lot to counter it, your ankles and calves are fighting that tilt forward action especially on braking bumps. But with these pedals underneath the pivot, you would be swinging backwards and therefore heels would dip and toes go up but also you’d be digging more weight/force right into the pins which would obviously give you more stability and traction.
Now separate issue:
I just bought a couple months ago a set of 10mm shorter cranks on my large size orbea rise. From 170mm to 160mm (I’m 6’1”) and I love them so much. They changed so much how the bike felt that I got 165mm from 175 for my analog road bike as well and am so glad.
I was concerned about these making the cranks feel long again but then was wondering if it would just be making the same size circle (top pedal in the rotation is also lower so diameter is the same) but just be moving the center lower than the bottom bracket pivot rather than above it like usual and therefore it changes nothing or if it feels different in the rotation like having an oval chainring or something. Can’t wait to find out. And I get to lower my seat 12mm which bring my COG lower too!
One thing you didn't mention that concerns me a bit is the protruding section closest to the crank arm. If you ride close to the crank currently, you will have to adjust your foot position out by 10+ mm
Yea in the video his shoe was hanging off the outside edge by quite a lot. I think that feeling would drive me crazy, like my foot could never feel securely centered on the pedal.
Nice work dude!
Not since I first saw a dropper post have i thought, yep!, I NEED a pair of those pedals!
Most of us have scraped up crank arms from our shoes, here the axle increase the Qfactor by at least 30mm I would guess. Curious if it works for everyone.
As long as the bearing and axel are strong enough this seems like a design where everything makes sense. Like almost no tradeoffs, except maybe the smaller foot hole, but that seems easily solvable.
Really neat idea. No doubt the price tag is fair in relation to the cost of manufacturing, a bit steep though for a flat pedal imo.
Very interesting. Great honest review as always Ryan.
If you stick with polished silver they stay looking new longer. Black pedals will show every rock strike that much more.
Those marks are a useful diagnostic tool!
Love my Stamp 7 in black that show all the pedal strikes, shows that the bike is actually being used instead of sitting in the garage
You're not getting paid, but you should. Now I'm definitely considering buying these as a gift from Santa this year.
With that space for "other activities" they could totally make a clipless version of this by sticking a SPD clip mechanism in there. DH racers might actually try a clipless version of that.
😉
The only issue I can see is clearance to rotate your foot to release.
@@OutlierMTB Do it and i´ll buy it. I´ve been wanting something like this for years and years.
The entire idea, is not using clips. If you use clips you use a stiff soled show that negates the need for a huge pedal.
Dont need support of the pedal.
Old shimano 636s did that, but not with a drop ped platform
A really slick and elegant upgrade to something we all thought little could be done to improve - Pedals. Makes me wonder how many other aspects of bikes that dont get much design ingenuity anymore because we thought it had reached its design limits, probably several! I wonder what the weight limits are as a heavy rider?
Silicone electrical tape on my brake levers.
No frozen finger tips because of the insulating effect of the silicone.
Wrap using a spiral, like applying grip tape to road-bike bars. It's a self adhering tape that needs clean hands when you apply it.
Answer to a question that wasn't asked
@ free advice for everyone but you.
I wonder if they correct themselves quickly enough for one footers, or if they might still be pendulum-ing mid air while I’m trying to get my foot back on 🤔
Don't think that's an issue many people will have 🤣
@@AGMTB.Why you be hatin' on monopeds mang?
Looks good with this offset, but i would prefere some material in middle, just not to catch sharp stick or root to pedal
Having fewer edges underneath, means fewer chances for stuff to snag; also, the bottom is smooth, so it slides over stuff.
Reading the info on the pedal website, looks like the point of having nothing in the middle is for the shoe to flex a bit and create even more bite and traction into the pedal.
Awesome to see this innovation. Seems like the future of pedal design
Nice video! I think an error though: the offset will be subtracted from the top AND thr bottom of the pedal stroke so no net effect on effective crank length.
It does still subtract for effective ground clearance so I guess we can chalk it up to misspeaking. His intended point still stands.
I was just referring to ground clearance at full extension. You’re right though - rotationally, you’re still spinning the same sized circle as before.
There is no way that I want to accidently find my foot on the wrong side of these pedals: a slick, pinless, off-camber platform.
6:39 this angle is misleading, as the top of the pedal on the left sits below the crank, but you lined up its top face with the normal pedal (which sits above the crank). Making it look like there’s increased ground clearance
but in that shot, he wasn't trying to show increased ground clearance, rather the difference in thickness of the pedal towards the outside, which somewhat compensates the new pedal sitting lower. He even said at 6:00 that yes the ground clearance difference "is not nothing" but in practice not nearly as bad because of the shape, which the shot at 6:39 was illustrating.
as an outsider to biking, especially mountain biking, I think these petals are very intuitive, They just make quite a bit of sense to me
I have some issues with the design:
1. I run my dropper post slammed so to run these pedals I'd need a shorter one.
2. I wonder how they'll stand up to rock strikes or heavy landings that would bend many pedal axles! (rather a bent pedal than a snapped one)
3. I wonder how they'll perform when the bearings get old, it might prevent them self-righting and ending up with your foot on the back of the pedal.
This is a great idea: you can adjust the length of the connecting rod both up and down. thanks for the idea!
I've just purchased a set of these. I get the price might put some people off but at my stage of life I have some disposable income and these are a cool idea I want to support. We have gotten used to china producing rubbish for “cheap”. I was a furniture maker and I know how much work goes in to the production of something like this.
a lot of work because they use a CNC on a block of aluminium (aka machine work, not human work). If you mold the aluminium at the right shape and you use tools only at the bearing socket where some precision is needed, it would be much cheaper in greater production.
That looks pretty cool, thanks for the review. One of my issues getting my feet kicked off, might give these a try.
Kinda sick. I would almost prefer *some* material in the center, just to help deflect things in the unlikely event something managed to come up from the bottom into the opening, and I'm a bit skeptical of that spindle as well... but they've made their way onto my wish list. Super unique design and super cool to support an Alberta product.
If you have 3 bikes, you need 3 pair of these pedals. 900.00 + tax/shipping.
If a stick did come up inside the pedal, it could easily launch you 20 feet down the trail with out the bike.
Or go thru your shoe. No point thinking about it.
@@bradsanders6954 just 3d print a plastic piece to fill the void. Cheap and easy.
@@Emolokz kinda seems like for $300 though... you really shouldn't have to. But also, ya, totally, why not?
@@bradsanders6954 I wouldn't want these on all my bikes, I seems like more of a "Big Bike" pedal. the benefits don't seem as pronounced for a trial or XC bike
Looks good for frigid fatbike riding. The center axle on normal pedals is a heat sink, so maybe one’s foot would stay warmer with the Pendulum.
Love it!!! But $299 - give me a break 😅
The self-correcting part makes total sense coming from road cycling. Clipless road pedals always have the same orientation because one side of it is heavier than the other. Different weight distribution, same principle as these.
I'm sold.
appreciate the disclaimer at the start of the video, honesty is hard to find nowadays
The extra offset of the pedals won't lengthen your cranks from a leverage point of view, only your body position. Very pretty design though. Are they stainless steel?
"Our pedal bodies are CNC'd out of 7075 Aluminum in Calgary, AB. Each pedal houses two robust oil filled 6902 bearings. Total pedal weight is 207g"
@@bwvl Thanks. Surprising that such skinny aluminium with no internal webbing is strong enough. Clearly is though.
I think the crank length reference is more about them taking you closer to the ground.
@@timangus Using 7075 aluminum has really helped. We did quite a bit of FEA to ensure there aren't any problem areas as well.
@@OutlierMTBGreat job... These look awesome!
Wow, honestly impressed by the design. Not many real innovations have been made or can be in a long time but this really looks like an improvement over the standard, especially with the short crank trend.
If I were in the market for new cranks, these pedals would also be in the cross hairs.
Awesome innovation.
Awesome, even if it's not properly tested. Awesome comment.
I have never really ridden with flats. When I changed to clipless it was for good. But this is very cool design!
Quick correction that the smallest recommended men's shoe size is 7.
Great review! Really dispelled all my reservations I'd had of the product from first appearances.
6:50 The bolt heads protruding like that will become a problem after lots of rock strikes, and I'd pay close attention to their condition if I owned these pedals so you will be able to get them out if need be.
The main issue I have with my Oneup Aluminum pedals is landing my feet on top of the big bearing, and seeing the sheer size of that thing on these pedals I know that will become an issue here as well.
Personally I would change crank arm length regardless, and I feel rock strikes couldn't have been an issue with your bike and setup prior to installing these pedals and the terrain you ride in.
That thing somewhat worked out for you doesn't mean it automatically will for someone else, because there's so many different bike geo's and kind of terrain people ride, and how people ride, and what kind of components etc.
On top of that people got to understand this was only a test for you which costed you nothing but an experience of testing a product. For the everyday consumer I'd never jump on these without some proper evaluation first.
good points sir
This design has been used before by Shimano actually.
the dura ace ax pedal is a road toe clip pedal (ie: toe strape and cages, not clipless) from the 80s that required a proprietary crankset, but did have the platform lower than the spindle of the pedal.
i'd be really interested to see how much bending these pedals take on after a year of moderate to heavy usage, and in what terrain.
The physics on this makes complete sense. I bet it feels so different. I don't ride flat pedals, but I'd try these.
This actually makes total sense, never thought about this to have such an impact
Wonder if they could make a clipless version
@@gambitmkii that crossed my mind too, would save a little weight...
It's crossed our minds.... 😉
@@OutlierMTB Yes please!
As soon as I saw the thumbnail I could see the benefits as far as grip, didn't really think about what other benefits there would be. They make a lot of sense, but as with a lot of people, cost is a massive factor for me.
I wonder how long the bearings will last.
longer than most standard pedals i hope since they can be oversized
Dura ace AX cranks and pedals from the early 80s had a pedal platform that was in line with the center of the pedal axis.
But they required the proprietary crank to go with them (it had a 1” hole for the pedal axle to screw into).
I had an idea like this in the past it’s funny to see that it’s actually done now! I’m surprised you didn’t mention the main subject, the riders peddling circle is now corrected. Now that they’re not peddling above the axle-you get a proper circle shape when peddling... That was my thought at least🤔
Cool video, they look well made!
How did you even think that up? "a proper circle shape" Because a foot doesnt go in a circle on a normal pedal.
Rock on!
These look absolutely awesome!
While the price may appear off putting. Its near the price of a pair of Maxxis tires. I'll order a set to save my shins.
I dont know where you live but you can get a set of Maxxis Minions here for 80 bucks
@@xXRunDeathXx That means absolutely nothing without stating the currency.
@@xXRunDeathXxhow? A single proper DD maxxgrip/terra tire runs me minimum $85
I always shop on line, 70 to 90 euros a pair of Maxxis tires...
Okay, dumb question perhaps, but who actually makes these pedals and how would I order? I don't see any of that actually mentioned in the video or description, except to say that the model name is called pendulum.
As urban rider MTB pedals are the best exactly for grip problems, that aside, having also to accelerate at traffic speeds I'm having serious doubts the hollow platform would be practical as the tip of the foot over the axle is used for sprint pedal strokes.
You shouldn't be adjusting your foot position for sprinting. While everyone is built a little different, the optimal position is having the ball of your foot slightly in front of the pedal axle. From a bio-mechanical standpoint this allows your foot to properly absorb the force you are applying. Having the ball of your foot behind the axle (i.e. the tip of the foot over the axle as you stated) puts stress on the front of your foot which it isn't designed for. Long term riding like this can lead to discomfort and numbness while on the bike.
Don't take my word for it. Look up any bike fit video/article that talks about foot placement. A common mistake for novice riders to to have the ball of their foot on top, or behind, the pedal axle which leads to problems. Also, if you've been riding like that for awhile then the correct position is going to feel weird/bad. That's normal, because your body will take time to adjust. Give it a few weeks and your body will adjust, and your feet will thank you.
@ Hey thanks for your feedback! I've been riding 20 years with flat pedals so I know a thing or two as well, the numbness arises when forcing the body sustain what isn't adapted to do or simply just it can't, clip-less pedals are relatively worse in that regard since doesn't allow the foot to apply different positions for different pedal stances like a max sprint lasts 12 seconds or so then the foot recovers no problem, a climb stance is different part of the foot but well perhaps it's too advanced this stuff 😜
I had a chance to try these pedals and I didn't like them for two reason.
I'm a size 11 shoe and I hated how 25% my shoe soul would hang off the side of the pedal due to the bearing area being so big. You can acutally see this issue in this video. It's very uncomfortable. I don't have this issue with my TMAC padels.
Second I hated how my foot would rub against the drop part of the pedal. Basically where the bearing sits. Also when taking a foot off the pedal and putting it back on while the bike is moving, my foot would always hit the drop spindle/ bearing area first then slide off and back onto the pedal, but with half my foot off the pedal. I would always have to reposition my foot.
For me these pedals are a hard pass. Also $300 for thsee pedals is insane.
The width is my main concern, so that’s helpful to hear your experience. Deftrap, dagga, and brage are my fav. Brage bring most narrow
I never noticed a lack of support at all. But i do like to run somewhat stiff shoes (the older style Sam Hills), which may have helped matters.
I belive Tioga used to have pedals similar to these, back in the early 90's.
one benefit of dropping the sole of your foor lower is, that the roration point moves closer to your ankle, reducing stress on that joint.
Hmmmmm. Going to have to test these. Love new ideas. 🔥
You guys gotta work on your cranks first. Destroyed 3 pairs already with little nothing rock strikes.
@@bearjewmtb4827 jewish guy buying 5DEV? You run NX and you know it. 🤑
@@bearjewmtb4827 Weird. you have the same set of Hope cranks on your bike from 2020 to present. 🤣🤣🤣
@ I had a set on my evil following where after landing a small jump pedal threads just ripped out. Replaced them and same thing happened again. Then got a pair of the free ride ones for my Commencal supreme and one rock strike and same thing happened.
@ I’ll send pics if you want
Wao, a very clever design. Some engineers have put some thought on that pedals, not only the axel, it is all.Well done 🤙
I would think these would work well in winter to help prevent snow build-up on the pedal that some people encounter.
Only problem is adding a larger q factor to a fatbike will be pushing the limits of q factor
I get it right, we have major upgraded bike machines, only make sense to upgrade the pedals. be interesting in trying, BUT I am Amazed and So frekin happy with my Hustle Labs Magnet pedals, its a game changer in the best way.
Shimano had Dyna Drive pedals over 40 years ago. Look them up.
Shimano also made special cranks exclusively for the pedals. The pedal spindle was larger in diameter than standard, so the hole in the special crank was larger to accommodate them.
The Dynas were made for road bikes, but the idea is the same.
Yes. 1 inch vs 9/16 inch. i might put mine back on my 1981 Miyata Pro. Cheers.
Love the idea. I'd give them a go on my trail bike in a heartbeat! I don't think they'll replace the predominance of clipless for enduro, even if they came out with a clipless version, mostly for the climbing sections of the races. Being able to generate power on both the push and pull side of the cranks is still such a huge benefit.
It might make its way into DH tho, and that would be interesting to see.
I love the idea, but for 300$... nah
They need to make a composite version for less than $100
@@ThisGuyRides fr
That's 300 CAD, though. So not far from many other high end pedals.
@@ThisGuyRides composite pedals work ebcasue of the steel axle runnin gup th emiddle of them..... not sure it would work here.
I am tempted to try though and put together a set of these using formlabs 2000 tough resin
I thought it was USD but it's CAD, so it's not bad for a new product with low run manufacturing.
Ordered a set to try out. I had previously thought that a platform that was lower than the axle might make some sense. Looking forward to giving them a try.
I can't wait for the clones that aren't stupidly overpriced.
They are not over priced. They are priced to keep the company in business.
Say you're poor without saying you're poor...
Shimano did something pretty similar in the early 80s with dura ace 7200. Though those pedals were made for "self unalive" clips and not flats and required proprietary crankarms for the jumbo axle threads
This is actually clever. Back in the days we used to ride trial, and wellgo MGs was popular pedals for that with nice greepy threaded in bolt-spikes. So som eof the guys used to unscrew bolt-spikes from one pedal side to preserve them as spares, and used bolt-holes to bolt down a little plate weight - it forced a pedal to rotate weight-down and spikes-up every time when pedal ws accidentally miss-aligned.
Very compelling. With feet on the small end of the recommendation and a big hole to grab anything sticking up, the hollow middle remains my only reservation. Still eager to give them a shot
If they come down in price a *little* I'll buy immediately. This video sold me on the concept!
I haven't ridden flat pedals since I was a kid... But I'd love to try these!
Just looking at them I can see how they fix most pedal issues.
Only issue i can see is getting a stick through the hole into the bottom of your foot.
But a thin plate or grid right at the bottom would stop that.
I'd buy a set.
2:38 Shimano came out with this feature back in the early 80's with the their pedals for Dura Ace AX
Back in the LenoskyChase street days... Yes I made a Chase mod neutral gear for long fakie tricks. But I also made an .049 chromoly grind plate that wrapped around three sides of my pedal with half the pins taken out and screwed in through the reflector holes. It was slick and nice and also self centering.
Yah, those good old LenoskyChase days............the long fakie tricks.
I I am massively impressed by the performance of these pedals from all that I’ve seen on the video. What impressed me the most was how the pedal goes back to the resting position and the pins are will always see the underneath of my shoe but it’s one of those products for $299.99 or 300 quid a simply can’t afford them although I would love to because I think the concept is brilliant the way they’ve been put into practice is brilliant and seem to be an amazing invention or an innovation on the current pedal design.
£188 at current CAD to GBP ( obviously with inevitable import duties and taxes )
300$ +shipping takes the pleasure out of it. Ill wait for the patent to run out. Cool product.
That‘s pretty genius … also effectively 17mm more stack, wish that pedal had been around for my previous bike with its low front end
12mm, according tho their website
Definitely want to try those, thanks for sharing
Opens up some interesting aesthetic designs for the empty middle bit, like a logo or custom text. Or maybe to stow an air tag. Very cool!