Not a new thing that’s been said but that line about Imperials inhabiting many sectors of government within the New Republic makes its fall more believable.
Did the new republic not leave some police force to guard the planets? They didn't have enough resources and people to assign into eradicating the empire remnants? I mean Mando and Ashoka found those easily, in matter of days. So the new republic must be extremely incompetent.
Si vis pacem, para bellum "if you want peace prepare for war" - Roman proverb Or Washington amended it "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace"
I remember the rogue one novillisation. She thinks how ironic it was that she who was anti war all her career was now busy building a military to wage a civil war.
@@GenerationTechsame. I've never really cared much about Mon Mothma, but after Andor, I am extremely invested in her character and plot arc. I really, really want her to get her own show, and I want it to properly flesh out her time between Andor and A New Hope.
its about as ironic as not taking a bath for months and then finally having to take a bath, but it perfectly illustrates her character and why she is poison to the republic. the whole theme of the SW universe is "delusional extremism is disastrous for everyone, only balance can acheive lasting peace", both in the force and in politics. mon mothma is a great character as she illustrates the counterpoint to the sith, pacifism taken to such a delusional extreme that it dooms the republic and leaves the door wide open for any dipshit imperial warlord to take over, and its kinda maddening because people like that are all too common and they never "get it" until its too late.
Having won the war, Mon Mothna lost the peace, by disbanding her military, reinstitution of the failed practices of the old republic and inability to persuade hardline imperials to accept the agreed peace.
@@splatoonistproductions5345 90% of the military of the new republic was disbanded following peace with the empire. Leaving not large enough force to do anything more than protect the systems of the new republic and were stretched thin doing that. A significant chuck of that remaining fleet over several hundred ships were destroyed at Honisan prime by starkiller base and remainder soon after as the firsat order launched its conquest of the galaxy.
@@wedgeantillies66 I KNOW! but on that subject it does leave enough ships to protect many member worlds, tho I think if I remember correctly a lot of them still built defence forces of their own. Being supplied with surplus/modern ships and weapons with joint training exercises between republic and local defence forces to strengthen interoperability and quality of personnel. I think the general idea was that local defence forces would in a war just defend their respective worlds while the NR deploys small task forces to help bolster defences and counter attack after any failed attempts since they would be weakened to a degree. I do agree it’s kinda silly that she got rid of 90%, that can be really bad but we have no idea how many ships the NR had at the end of the war, but it’s still considered a navy and army which is FAR MORE than the post reformation of the republic 1000 years before phantom menace. plus we don’t even know how big many individual defence forces outside/inside the new republic are, tho I’d guess from TROS that some had a couple cap ships at least with a handful of support ships and dozens of fighters outside what the support and cap ships carry. Like, we see old mc 75’s and what seems to be sub classes of it in the battle, so it’s possible the NR did sell off a bunch of their older ships to defence forces but I wanna hear something concrete either in the ahsoka series or the upcoming film. I’m just a big fleet nerd, not of necessarily BIG FLEETS; just one of ships, fleet compositions, doctrine and all sorts
What made her think she would even be successful without the Jedi Order of old that were the de facto peace-keepers in the galaxy until the Empire? No such force existed post-Endor.
@@splatoonistproductions5345 True and that is quite possibly what happen. However, we know they were decommissioning and scrapping ships as well as using imperial ones to make new ones. So as you say it is highly likely that I lot of defence forces end up with forces made up of whole hosts of rebellion era ships from fighters to frigates to cruisers easily enough. Which could beat back pirates and local problems, but be overwhelmed one on one by first order task forces. It was and from what we know they retained enough of a fleet that was modernised and updated over the years. Being used to defend key systems, shipyard's military bases and the borders. Indeed, no one could beat the military weaken position of the old republic post ruusan and said military weakness, pay well into the sith's grand plan to eventually size power. Ditto and glad to hear it as love that type of stuff, myself along with battles and campaigns chucked in and how fleet compositions and tactics influenced said events.
Yep. Although to be fair, so does the Old Republic. In fact, George Lucas heavily based the Old Republic off the Weimar Republic and he used several historical figures for the role of Palpatine as inspiration including Hitler, George W. Bush, Richard Nixon and Caesar.
Nah, it reminds me more of modern germany tbh. Weimar germany was not idealistic. It was just imperial germany minus the military and the emperor. And that void was quickly filled by the freicorps and hitler. It is modern germany that is blindly anti-fascist to the point where they are unable to solve problems that the nazis could have easily handled, constantly coping with more liberal dogmatism and making things worse.
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 The Nazis didn't easily handle problems, the idea that Fascism is somehow more efficient than democracies is complete bollocks. you can extend that to most totalitarian systems. All of them eventually collapse because of their inability to problem solve and/or the incompetence that puts loyalty to the state above all things , especially competence. Read Adam Tooze - The Wages of Destruction. Also read Richard J Evens's whole trilogy on the Reich and how phenomenally crap they were at actual governing anything. It's become fashionable amongst certain quarters of the internet to recycle the myths that Nazi Germany made for itself and idiots lap it up for some reason. Don't be one of them.
I’m like the New Republic in the Lengends timeline after the Thrawn and the Empire reborn crisis, they made changes to the government and maintained a fleet that was always ready to deal with threats
Same, but I honestly don't mind Disney's perspective on the New Republic. Like Disney screwed up with a lot of stuff, but I like how flawed the New Republic is. It's a refreshing take, because the New Republic in Legends is pretty badass, but also infallible. They literally do nothing wrong (well except putting Daala in a position of power). It's refreshing to see the New Republic as not this perfect government as it's depicted in Disney canon.
@@-CrimsoN-really do some faction that’s weaker than the empire at its highest point really make the new republic flawed to me it just bad writing and if they wanted it to be flawed bring in thrawn as a pragmatic genius he is and watch him carefully and methodically make people question the new republic
@@-CrimsoN-also the new republic was flawed however what we need is a balanced approach to not make them underpowered but not over powered ether but a middle ground which I believe this would make a great series but not a movie
@@-CrimsoN- The New Republic in Legends also screwed up badly. Thrawn beat the shit out of it so badly that it was almost outright destroyed while proving the Empire still had what it took to be the dominate power. Thrawn is the reason that the New Republic in legends fully reversed on the idea that it needed no military here. Canon New Republic didn't learn from its mistakes and didn't survive. Legend New Republic realized it's mistakes before it could kill the fledging government and adapted. This idea that the old stuff was 'infallible' is itself a ridiculous flaw. It doesn't take into account the idea that people can learn from mistakes and be better tomorrow then they were today. That people like Wedge Antilles can spot weakness in the New Republic BEFORE it becomes something it's enemy can capitalize on and plug that gap to demonstrate competence at his job doesn't make him 'infallible' and therefore 'boring'. It means when they do fail, it has far more meaning and then the question becomes, "how can he come back from that failure and ensure that it doesn't happen again?" THAT is where the magic happens. And when he runs into people who are just as competent at their job as he is? That's when the creativity comes out. And that is when things get truly 'interesting'.
We need an in-universe podcast hosted by Mays Migfeld and DJ just complaining about how terrible the government is and bringing up all sorts of wild conspiracies
In universe conspiracy theorists is never something I've considered, but that sounds both hilarious and fascinating. I would gladly watch/listen to that. It would unironically help flesh out the lore and world building. Damn, now I really want that!
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't give away." Mon Mothma really needed to hear and understand this. She and her Senate party can close their eyes to the threats all around them, but they will still be there when their eyes open up. And you can't live your life walking around with your eyes closed; sooner or later, you'll take a fall that will end you.
Without spoilers there was one thing in this episode that bugged me a lot. A certain General during a briefing withheld some key information about her encounter that would have gotten a much more serious reaction from mon mothma but they intentionally withheld the information for the sake of plot and that bugs me
Sometimes it’s a real issue with plot points, you have to have a good writing to back up the outcome after failing to get a fleet, she could’ve just asked for a dozen fighters
@@freddysw It's also detrimental to the characters, because she is such a cool character and having her act stupid for no reason other than plot makes her seem less competent
@@jobt1999 I don't think he is but even though he's definitely not the best writer he's still the best person for the job. Unfortunately Star Wars by its very Nature has never had good writing other than Andor even with George Lucas at the helm. But even though Andor was probably one of the best series Star Wars has ever produced it wasn't well-received because it lacked the Star Wars world-building and charm. And although Lucas and Dave filoni are not the best writers when it comes to Star Wars storytelling and world-building no one can match them. And Star Wars and what the fans enjoy world-building and storytelling is far more important than the quality of the writing which Star Wars has never really had. So no Dave filoni is not a messiah but he's still the best bet we have for enjoyable Star Wars content especially since most modern Star Wars lore including the Magnificent Clone Wars was created by Him
The biggest issue with the New Republic? Well, they threw out almost everything from the Imperial Navy. The Imperial Navy was by all accounts superior to the rebel fleet, which became the new Navy. The New Republic didn’t even bother to upgrade their fleet with Imperial Navy tech, except I guess Rogue Squadron’s “Uglies” that sometimes mixed a Tie Fighter with a A or X-Wing or whatever combination of imperial and rebel parts
New Republican: Ma’am our new helmets fit our Mon Cala recruits perfectly now Mon Mothma: but they are effective protection, right? New Republican: they fit everyone!
Man watching this, then seeing the latest episode of Ahsoka, it feels like the New Republic needs a lesson I the proverb: "If you want peace prepare for war", not to mention Perun's video about how corruption ruins militaries.
Thank you so much for these breakdowns. Unlike my friends I do really enjoy the political aspects of Star Wars. The is a lot to be said about the critique and contrast between the crumbling Republican apparatus and overreaching Imperial authoritarianism
I still think, many of the rebels would have been smart. Solo, Lando, and others would have hidden star ships under the guise of disarmament. "returned" mon cala ships to the seas turning them into buildings again... but no removing anything from them... sent ships to world like komeno to become cities there... maybe give kamino to the Quorin.
*The New Republic definitely has issues that they tried to do bette than the Empire. But, there's always going to be organizations that have some areas that just won't function appropriately, no matter how hard they try to get it to work. And the New Republic is just another thing that has failed at certain things during its existence.*
Yeah, the New Republic would just have the same failings as the old one, once the honeymoon was over for the end of the Galactic Civil War. No one government could manage so many people and places and still stick to ideals of some kind of representative democracy or effective central government. On most worlds you were on your own and if you didn't have the resources to protect your interests someone was going to come along and take advantage of your weakness and isolation unless by dumb luck you were so isolated and unremarkable that no one ever noticed you.
I actually think this is more about the people who run the government. Consider this, most of the senators who were around when Mothma, Bail, and Padme were around. A lot of them buried their heads in the sand and rode out the storm that was the empire and Palpatine. And unlike the Mothma and Bail most of them didn't really do anything to help the Rebel Alliance in any meaningful way mostly out of fear and self-preservation. Those opposed gambled heavily and not all of them survived, further emphasizing the point of heads in sand. Now fast-forward to Endor, the Senate had been all but disbanded and those senators were mostly living pretty rich lives all things considered. And then the empire collapsed, they immediately raise their hands praising the fall as they rode the storm and now the Republic is being reinstated. So, they need Senators with experience, well there is a bunch sitting in their lavish homes and think alright I can make this work. And with that they know Mothma and what she is like, they play to it and return the Republic back to the state they were at before the empire. Which meant worlds like Navaro, and other worlds being exploited and taxed without representation. And let's be honest, those worlds probably had trained soldiers and pilots from the Rebel Alliance who were more than willing to show those same Senators which end on a blaster did the bolts come from. And without a really functioning banking and trade system in place, or a reasonable standing force to protect it any semblance of authority was hilariously and sadly under equipped. And those same worlds who refused to go back to status quo were left to face the music on their own since the Republic, well the Senators, were more than willing to line their own pockets at the expense of everything else if it meant keeping the status quo and keeping the people who mattered happy and dumb. And Mothma having to keep them on her side, doesn't really seem to understand or is fine with this. Making her part of the problem voluntarily or not due to that fact she needs them, and she needs to be friendly with them. I'll be honest I'm more surprised the New Republic endured before the First Order just because they are that inept. Both of them are that bad, least legends had some semblance of learning from some of their mistakes and trying to deal with them in a meaningful way rather than heads in sand screaming "LALALALA" till they ran out breath.
I refuse to accept this version of the new republic I like the legends version better as it makes more sense story wise don’t get me wrong it had some issues but it was way better than this from what I read in the thrawn trilogy
You know, sometimes I click on these videos just to help support your channel. I never walk in with any expectations. However, you're so thoughtful and articulate that it's almost always a surprising pleasure. In an absurd world where nuance is dead, your insightful mind provides a rational spark of hope in the illogical darkness.
The biggest mistake Mon Mothma ever did is dismantling her military because most of the talented heroes of the rebellion is now jobless and suddenly those scum and greedy Empire senators suddenly got a seat at the top of her government even though they didn't even do a single thing for the rebellion. I think Leia'd be a better candidate for the government because Leia is a tough politician and military leader which is inherited from Bail while Mon Mothma is literally just an idealist nothing more.
While the New Republic's incompetence is a huge part of the story, I wish they'd show some successes more often, or at least rationalize some decisions. For instance, I think in the Mando ep with the pirates, if they go to a non-NR world guns blazing, they might send an unsavory message to nonaligned worlds, even if they save lives. Some could try to spin it as an act of imperialistic intervention and then the NR would have more enemies, and people in the NR that DO want to become imperialist and take over more planets would be able to use the Nevarro incident as propaganda. But none of that was said in the episode sadly, maybe that officer could've said a bit of it to make the decision at least a bit understandable.
The empire with Sidious and Vader in charge was a ineffectual nightmare, which i think in some way they wanted it like that, but with Thrawn in charge of the empire the galaxy would be a better place, not perfect but better than without him.
The problem with Thrawn at the helm, AIUI, is that politics and political machinations were a significant weak point of his. He would be excellent so long as he was able to prevent himself being undermined by others, but I don’t know how long that would last.
A galactic sized democracy is just folly to begin with. Especially when countless planets are locally *not* democratic and are various flavors of authoritarian. The republic should just be broken apart into smaller factions and states. The Mandolorians and separatists were in the right for wanting to charter their own destinies free some extremely naive republics
Ahsoka ignores the fact that many people supported the Empire because they saw it as offering order and stability. She dismisses their motivation as greed because as a victim of Imperial policy herself she can't empathise with people who feel differently.
They didn't show her or the trillions of beings who suffered needlessly under the Empire any empathy. the Empire was authoritarians leaning towards fascism. The Empire offering order and stability was like mistaking quite for peace, all freedom, choice and difference mercilessly removed. Why should she, their supporting the organisation that attempted to kill her on multiple occasions simply for existing, not to mention killing thousands of those she had known and trillions she did not?
True that. The Empire, despite how rotten it was at the top and the sith-like teachings that bled into things like it’s bureaucracy, Stormtrooper Corps, military leadership and politics, many people in the Empire’s complex were just regular ol’ Joes. The Empire to them, gave them a sustainable job, a safe living, the ability to become something beyond what many in poorer worlds would’ve seen as impossible. Not to mention the funding that went into a lot of planets and regions as the industrial complex started chugging, bringing in much needed modernization and production value to planets and building up local economy. It would make sense why so many would flock to it, the Empire quite literally pulled many, be it planets, people (Eli Vanto & Rae are good examples) or economies out of poverty and, especially due to the hard rationing that came with the Seperatist Crisis, stability.
The Empire was a Golden Age for the Core Worlds as long as it stuck to tyrannising the outer planets (see Star Wars Rebels). The minute Palpatine dissolved the Senate and his close associate Tarkin blew up Alderman the entire galaxy suddenly realised that they had a problem.
Being in combat and seeing hundreds of people close to you killed and or dying right beside you gives you a very different perspective on many many things. These people were a part of the organization that did those things that she saw first hand. If you’ve never been on a battlefield (more than likely not), it would be impossible to understand her perspective on this.
I think you're right about the New Republic seeming a little...lost. I thought so, too, when I first read Timothy Zahn's trilogy in the 1990s. Leia, Luke, and Han were dealing with Bothans and other species in building the New Republic, and Mon Mothma was always sending Leia on diplomatic trips to different planets, only to encounter a kidnapping attempt on Leia.
@@AdultThirdCultureKid1971that's not lost. It's just building the allainces necessary to actually integrate what they can into an effective new republic.
The Legends New Republic was a lot more effective - strong military to enforce the law and attempting to address the problems of the Old Republic that the Emperor exploited. In canon they're basically attempting to rebuild the Old Republic without a military capable of addressing the lawlessness seen in The Mandalorian or Ahsoka, or dealing with the fact that the outer planets viewed the Core Worlds as demanding taxes while offering few public services.
Yea the only major difference is at least the new republic has a small reaction force. Although I have to stress that both the republic and new republic wanted to rely on a more decentralized network of local defense forces which the federal government would subsidize. So they weren’t completely crazy.
@GenerationTech You can see an actual functioning version of this with how the US organizes its military. The standing US army and Reserve are for quick response and holding/sustaining until the States National Guards can be activated and deployed. The mistake the Old and New Republics made wasn't disbanding or downsizing their armies. It was decommissioning their Navy. Having a Navy capable of responding to, and at the very least delaying hostile forces until the Army and Naval Reserve forces could be activated is vital. They ended up downsizing so much that they lost the ability to effectively respond to to rising threats. They couldn't even patrol space lanes to protect against Pirates.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul I was thinking the same thing. But it is sad that all the credit's that the Republic sent to each planet wasn't all used on the planetary defense forces.
Yep. There's a quote that I'm very fond of that perfectly describes this scenario: "The one thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns from history..."
I appreciate the New Republic painted out with all their flaws and beliefs. I think the most boring thing to imagine is the Star Wars universe becoming a utopia after the Empire. Like, have it be better sure, but not perfect.
For me it just seemed weird how the NR grew complacent to where it got wiped out in TFA and was never heard from again after that in the movies. Just to me it makes the end of ROTJ seem less impactful since everything that the NR could have done wrong they did leading to the First Order and its immediate complete destruction. But I do appreciate we’re getting new material exploring these ideas even if I think some things could have been better executed.
@@Darth_Xionn Star Wars is actually more of a misnomer. You can go multiple yoda's lifetime without a large war breaking out. It's just the new Republic is so bad at governing. Also Palpatine was right.
@Orion1189 To me, that is just bad writing. That is the equivalent of America surrenders after DC gets nuked, but the rest of the country is fine. Especially after the means of which they nuke cities get eliminated shortly afterward. It made no sense. Also, how did Snoke consolidate power so quickly? It seems like all you have to do to do that is sit on a fancy chair. TLJ is just a retconing to establish the empire as the dominant power again. I liked the idea of the Empire devolving into a elusive terrorist organization. Instead we get a narrative that is going backward. The sequels don't exist to me.
I'd love a Star Wars story from the point of view of a competent bad guy. Sith, imperial, imperial remnant, any evil faction really. The villain doesn't need to be the most evil or edgy either just highly pragmatic and aware they are not the good guy but DONT SWITCH SIDES. Wish we could explore why people chose to take the villain route. Also, I predict here Sith Apprentice in Ahsoka will switch sides to join Ahsoka, calling it now because this is Disney.
She isn't a Sith apprentice she's a Dark Jedi and the actor who plays the role as her master would force them to modify whatever they originally had in mind.
I love how you take a balanced approach to reality, when a big portion of our community can't take a balanced approach to fiction. Keep putting out great explanations!
Ahsoka has never been more wrong than when she failed to recognize the danger of enemies loyal to their cause. Summing it up to greed makes her seem out of touch and elitist.
@@connorbestbarlow1043 I don't think he was even involved in the sketchy shit. He never said for the empire and only tried to save himself. Sure he's doing what he's doing for money but I have mouths to feed to so I can't blame him for that. If you don't get payed your family doesn't get fed.
Mon Mothma's fallacy was trying to bring back the Republic of old instead of creating a new one that actually addresses the flaws and failures of the old that led to the Empire. Years of incompetence and corruption led to inexcusable gaping holes in economics, millitary and beauarcracy that the Sith could exploit. When a crisis (often engineered by the SIth) exposed the hole the Sith had a ready made solution to fill in the gap and Mon Mothma incorrectly saw these solutions as the problem instead of the Sith exploiting one. Now Mon Mothma's New Republic had good ideas such as strengthening PDFs and encouraging independence but they bungled that, too many just left the New Republic only to fall prey to often malevolent interests and outside of wealthy worlds most PDFs had neither the resource or manpower to actually defend anything and no realistic amount of funding from the New Republic could empower every world in the galaxy to fix those issues. The New Republic needed a strong adaptable millitary and a strong government that encouraged and promoted membership but Mon Mothma and her government was too scared by the Empire and too nostalgic for the Old Republic to do that and we were left with a weak New Republic and a galaxy ripe for malevolent forces to exploit it, be it Imperial, warlord or criminal.
So Legends New Republic worked because post-Endor had the alliance facing enemy after enemy which forced them to realize they needed to continuously develop and modernize their military to counter every threat that arose from the Black Fleet Crisis to the Yuuzang Vong whereas canon New Republic enjoyed a time of peace post Battle of Jakku and the New Republic got complacent which lead to their inevitable downfall
The aftermath trilogy of books literally only cover 1 year of events from endor to the battle of Jakku. They do not, in any way cover the 30+ years gap between episode 6 and 7.
My speculation is that after Episode IX the galaxy turned its back on supranational government altogether. The civilian fleet at Exegol may have fought against the First Order, but they didn't exactly flock to the New Republic or the Resistance earlier.
Canon. Legends. They both seem to have it out for the new republic really. Both end up getting rekt by an imperial remnant (in legends case, it was twice). It’s like this galaxy has a vendetta against democracy.
Well democracy is not easy and has to be cherished and protected. The issue is that the republic like the Roman republic becomes much to large to effectively govern and then corruption starts to take hold degrading its institutions. That's how a democracy dies because it's leaders don't take care of it. Not that dictatorships aren't corrupt tho they are horrifically corrupt as we see with Russia who somehow ranked lower then south Africa on the corruption index
The thing is, in Legends at least, that multiple characters (usually Imperial) often point out that the great flaws of Democracy are what will always cause it to fail. As soon as a large enough group/coalition/faction/party of people within the whole figure out that they can just vote themselves things at the expense of the others, Democracy fails. As soon as ANY un-forseen problem arises, and forces certain groups/planets/sectors of people within the whole to choose between the good of themselves and the good of the whole, Democracy fails. A Democracy is built upon the foundational principal of popularity and equality, however, within such a system only the most pernicious and ambitious tend to succeed, and thus, Democracy fails. Hell, it's the reason the Empire eventually wins, mostly. Until Krayt screwed it up, but he got what he deserved.
Being overcome with peace and allowing potential threats to arise would make more sense (to me) in regards to the New Republic in the Canon if there was more time between Episodes 6 and 7. Between the Battle of Jakku and the New Republic-First Order War in The Force Awakens, that's maybe what - 15, 20 years? That seems too short to me for the entire New Republic leadership to become too absorbed in peace to become blind to the many problems in the Galaxy. There had to have been warlords left after the Galactic Concordance that chose to continue the war against the New Republic, or at least create their own miniature empires that would have to be dealt with. Probably not on the same scale as Legends, but still. Then we have the many Imperial worlds that became independent again thanks to the Rebellion, and I'm sure that probably allowed some conflicts from the Clone Wars or earlier to resurface. Just look at the different ethnic and ideological conflicts that broke out in former colonies after WWII or in the former Warsaw Pact nations and Soviet republics after the Cold War, except on a galactic scale with science fiction technology. Did the New Republic completely ignore these conflicts, or would they not have acted in some peace-keeping fashion? The fact that we're seeing this "peace sickness" afflicting the New Republic in shows like The Mandalorian and Ahsoka is even more mind-boggling to me. Whereas SOME people who remembered the Galactic Civil War and the Empire's atrocities would probably have retired by the time of The Force Awakens, Ahsoka and The Mandalorian both take place within a few years of the Battle of Endor and the Battle of Jakku. At this point, the majority of the New Republic's government, military and intelligence agencies were probably staffed by people who either lived through the reign of the Empire or literal VETERANS who had just narrowly defeated the Empire. How the hell did these same people allow the New Republic to become so weak and complacent, while so mind-numbingly incompetent? I understand some concerns they may have had about the New Republic becoming too powerful and wanting to avoid the mistakes that caused the Old Republic to become the Empire, but still - disarming the Alliance military within only a few years of the Galactic Concordance is ridiculous. I know the short answer is probably Disney needed to replicate the same circumstances from A New Hope for The Force Awakens, logic be damned and let some other poor people try to worldbuild around it.
I agree with your analysis in-universe, but I think it might be worth doing an out-of-universe exploration. I watched Ahsoka last week and a few things were bothering me about it, specifically the ending and what we know happens 20 years later. But then I really got to thinking about it and I had a face palm moment. In my day to day life, I spend my time researching history. My specific area of research is the era between the Revolution (1740 -1790) and the Civil War. My question was the threat didn't make sense considering how heavily the New Republic military was downgraded during the events of TFA. The answer is that the United States did the same exact thing after 1783. In their case, their standing army was one regiment, the First American Regiment. This increased to 10,000 during the Quasi-War with France, only to be decreased back down to one regiment in 1800. This means that at the start of the War of 1812, the US's army was about equivalent to what we see the New Republic's military in TFA.
In a way Palpatine won: The New Republic is again not caring about individuals, cold biurocracy. Palpatine (or someone similar) could use that again to create The New Empire. But it is impossible to be benevolent Emperor. Any of us would say: „I would do this better” and it is a challenge to not become corrupt by power.
Andor had us watching competent Imps and rebels outsmart each other. Ahsoka has us watching incompetent Imps and rebels out stupid each other. And boy is Filoni giving it his best shot.
Not to mention the acting- every time Ashoka, Sabine or Hera talks or move im embarassed for them. They are trying to hard to seem cool but its just flat and cliche feeling. Sabine is perpetually annoyed it seems
It’s possible that the more competent & brave Imps & Rebels got killed off because they fought in the frontlines. Similar to how the best of the Northmen died off during the Red Wedding leaving boorish scum like show version Smalljon & Harald Karstark.
Star Wars has always been separated geopolitically. It was shown best in the animated series where the core worlds hardly have any suffering and the fighting was in the outer rim. We see it today, where a nation is under siege and outside the sphere of influence due to associations of others.
Mon Mothma was amazing in the rebellion but she has been a fool in this era I actually want Thawn to have a conversation when he returns with one of the main characters saying I considered allying with the new republic but they are ineffective to defend the galaxy fom the grysk the empire must return thrawn does not care to be emperor but he wants to save his people
Pardoning most non-combatants was a good move. Many of them were just men and women trying to get by, working for the Empire because they worked under the Republic before that or because they wanted a decent wage. Now, many of these workers would undergo some form of loyalty shift from the constant propaganda of the Empire, making them slightly biased against the New Republic, but they were still mostly loyal to themselves and didn’t care who was paying them as long as the paycheck didn’t change. I would assume a janitor hired by the Empire didn’t care if the New Republic took over. Or even some Imperial Admirals wouldn’t care because they served the Galactic Republic before. As for combatant Imperials, it varies quite a bit. Many soldiers in the Navy and Army were just men with dreams of exploring the Galaxy and seeing some action with a good paycheck, or a member of a planetary defense force/local military that was dissolved and joined into the Empire. They’d not really care, or even be happy, that the New Republic took over, or they might be pissed. The Stormtroopers are made up entirely of extreme loyalists, they were practically brainwashed to love the Empire, so they’d revolt and join the Imperial Remnant factions immediately
Your TH-cam channel is absolutely amazing.The content you create is both entertaining and informative,Keep up the fantastic work, you're doing a fantastic job. Your hard work and dedication are truly inspiring. Keep shining and reaching new heights 🙏🏻
To paraphrase Geo. Washington "Si vis pacem, para bellum... If you want Peace, prepare for War." That's Mon Mothma's issue, she would rather have issues go Sideways with weak and Elitist philosophy than admit that a Strong Military is an absolute. But, if you look back... Garm Bel Iblis, whom Mel Gibson would be cool as, was right about her.
14:40 this is actually something a lot of people do in real life. People go to gun shows and buy pieces of WW2 Germany to preserve and appreciate the historical value.
I live in Austria, and this entire process of trying to integrate and to reeducate those imperials who could be converted into post war society and exterminate those who couldn't reminds me very much of de nazification in my country post WWII, where most higher-ups in society where former high nazi officials (btw one of the most popular parties today stems directly from those same nazis)
I always saw the biggest problem of the new republic was the same problem as the previous republic. It was too big. They would be better off creating multiple governments that work with each other, their own defense forces and senate. No tight borders but multiple leaders across the galaxy each with their own territory to look after. peace and trade treaties tied together to prevent a sector government from trying to expand and you would have better defenses and protections for everyone in the galaxy.
Lol I love how the recent videos keep being recorded in what looks like different areas of your home. Lol I feel like we're getting the combo home tour and Star wars lore vids and it's fun lol
Star Wars: Disney Canon Universe (LEGENDS is still better in every way) New Republic: We started a successful rebellion to defeat you. Palpatine: Really? Then let me start a rebellion to defeat the New Republic and let's see how that turns out. New Republic: 😵😵😵
Hell, the same thing happened in Legends too lol the Dark Empire nearly caused the New Republic to collapse and the Imperials managed to retake Coruscant for a time before turning on each other in the Imperial Civil War. If I remember, Palpatine actually did this on purpose to punish those who betrayed him after his first death... no wonder the Empire never won. Imagine wasting your military resources on a civil war that you started to punish your subordinates lol New Republic was forced back onto the Outer Rim for a time.
I'm really sad Rangers of the Republic got cancelled. I know most people just want all out action, but I would love to see more of the politics that lead to the downfall of the New Republic. Honestly, I wish they would use Hera or Carson Teva and continue with the show as they had planned. Mon Mothma has quickly become one of my favorite characters too and the more we get of her the better.
I still question the EU narrative that Leia was driven out of politics because a political rival found out that she was Darth Vader's daughter. For starters, I just don't see that story sticking considering how she was adopted right out of the delivery room. Anakin's marriage to Padme was never public knowledge, and the Empire tried to downplay the fact that Vader was Anakin. Even though it was the truth, to somebody without an audience eye view of the situation it would look like a political smear campaign. Especially if the general public was becoming apathetic towards the Empire it doesn't make much sense that this would keep Leia out of politics for *decades* after the war.
That wasn't in the EU. You're talking about the canon book, "Bloodlines". In the old EU, it wasn't that widely known. Luke kept it private amongst his Jedi. Some Imperial remnants knew. That's why Jacen and Jaina were the target of kidnappings when they were little.
@@amarcellus1714 - That's why I said "EU" and not "Legends". Make no mistake, the new novels, comics and games are *not* "canon" any more than Legends was. As was the case with Legends, the more privileged writers and directors working on movies and shows don't have to care about following the print media and can retcon or even outright ignore it. That's how Poe went from lifelong military brat to former smuggler in RoS.
@daniels7907 understandble. it's just that Old EU and Legends are usually together grouped as the same thing. When Disney took over, they swore that the novels, comics, and games under them would be canon with the movie and shows. But we all know how that is going. Lol
@@amarcellus1714 - Some of us have been through this before. A lot of Legends, especially from the early-90's, got casually wiped away by George Lucas. Because the OT didn't provide much exposition about the Jedi and Sith, early EU authors made a lot of stuff up. Most notably, it was assumed that because Anakin had married that Jedi in general did so and that there were whole Jedi family lineages. Lucas killed that in AotC when it was formally explained that Jedi weren't even supposed to be serious about dating. Disney opened with the lie that their new EU was "canon". But the directors and writers of the movies and shows don't care about what somebody else wrote in a novel or a comic and so they disregard the written "canon" much the same as George did.
@@daniels7907 I know. I've been with the EU since the Thrawn Trilogy and Shadows of the Empire. At this point it's best for the fans to stick to their own head canon.
The biggest mistake Mon Mothma ever did is dismantling her military because most of the talented heroes of the rebellion is now jobless and suddenly those scum and greedy Empire senators suddenly got a seat at the top of her government even though they didn't even do a single thing for the rebellion. I think Leia'd be a better candidate for the government because Leia is a tough politician and military leader which is inherited from Bail while Mon Mothma is literally just an idealist nothing more.
That was part of what Thrawn taught the New Republic in Legends. The idea that Peace at any Cost will destroy you when faced with people who believe in Violence as a First Resort. The New Republic in Legends when faced with destruction took to heart the lesson "If you wish for Peace, Prepare for War." It's the only reason the New Republic survived so many crises after Thrawn. And he was intentionally using Kid Gloves.
I much prefer the EU. The Empire didn't die, it took 15 years after Endor for them to end the gakactic Civil War. They were still armed. The Rebellion made the mistake of thinking Palpatine’s death would demoralize them. It did not. It wasn’t until they saw the emoty throne that they began to cannibalize themselves. Later they did regroup, fell apart. Regrouoed again. Failed. Then firmed the initial Fel Empire, which outlasted the Republic.
I'm not a fan of Disney's canon entirely, but I much prefer this intepretation of the New Republic over Legends. The Legends New Republic was kickass, but it had too many perfect people. I mean it literally stood up against multiple galaxy spanning crises and still continued to exist until the end of the Vong War, which just saw it evolve into the Galactic Alliance. But the way Disney is approaching the New Republic just seems more realistic. I think Disney's New Republic and the Legends Galactic Alliance actually have a lot in common. The political corruption, the vaguely authoritarian elements under the guise of maintaing a free "democracy", the errosion of civil liberties (see the Second Galactic Civil War in Legends).
@@chriswood1210 Yeah. Which is fair, because Star Wars has always tried to stay close to current events. Like I know George Lucas was inspired by Cold War politics for the original and then Bush era/post-911 politics for the prequel era. Just seems like Disney is trying to stick close to that theme, which I can appreciate. I'm not a fan of the sequels, but this kind of expanded universe stuff. I can't help but like it. I still love Star Wars Legends, but Disney's expanded universe is a different, but still valid take.
The boiled down answer is that humans are humans, bureaucrats will always be bureaucrats, and combining those two facts gives us the same results regardless of who is the ceremonial head of the government. Mon Mothma was also too risk averse to be militarily and strategically effective. She is an example of why bureaucrats and politicians should never be in charge of waging wars.
1:45 Indeed THAT never made and STILL makes no sense to me. Wouldn't the emperor want the Imperial remnants to unite and cause as much headache as possible for the New Republic?!? Like poisoning the wells in spite.
There is honestly a fun little parralel between the politics of the universe of Star Wars and the state of the franchise. Original Trilogy =>a plucky group of rebel, tired of the evil galactic Empire, decide to go on a daring quest to defeat the Empire and win the day, instauring a new Republic =>a plucky young realisator, tired with the evil studio system, decide to go on a daring quest to become independant and challenge the system, become one of the most successfull producer in history Prequel Trilogy =>a 1000 years old Republic, led by an old man, is torn appart by corrupt politician and ultimately turn into an evil Empire, putting in charge an Emperor who had gained the trust of the former Republic years ago =>a roughly 40 years old cinematic franchise, run by an old man, is torn appart by stupid fan and is ultimatelly sold to an evil entertainement Empire, putting in charge a CEO who had gained the trust of the franchise years ago Sequel Trilogy =>Under new leadership, the New Republic was supposed to bring a new era of freshness to the galaxy, but it turns out it's run by absolute hacks who will ignore every signals that they're running the galaxy to the ground, because they're more busy with making money. Meanwhile, a small group of people that actually care about the whole thing try to salvage this mess, but are powerless as the evil Emperor previously defeated still somehow remain which is absolute bullshit. =>Under a new leadership, Lucasfilm was supposed to bring a new era of freshness to the franchise, but it turns out it's run by absolute hacks who will ignore every signal that they're running the franchise to the ground, because they're more busy with making money. Meanwhile, a small group of people that actually care about the whole thing try to salvage this mess, but are powerless as the incompetent CEO tangled in so much controversies somehow remain, which is absolute bullshit. It's like poetry, it rhyme.
The New Republic should've never demilitarized to begin with. Many senators were afraid of a militarized republic, and perhaps rightfully so, but I think this could've been avoided by writing a strong constitution that the military is loyal to rather than a single person. Mon Mothma has definitely become one of my favorite characters in Star Wars these past few years but she did have flaws. Her biggest flaw, in my opinion, was trying to rebuild the pre-Clone Wars republic. This was a corrupt and ineffectual government to begin with. Assuming the current Disney canon hasn't changed too much, the pre-Clone Wars republic was essentially a pawn in a game being played by the Rule of Two Sith. The Sith, from Darth Bane to Sidious, had corrupted the republic and made it weak over the centuries. Obviously Mon Mothma wouldn't have known that but she at least knew that the republic was corrupt and should've known better than to try to rebuild it. If anything, she should've looked to establish the New Republic based on the republic prior to the Ruusan Reformations.
It felt… weird that Leia wasn’t a part of that council. I mean I know the real reason, but this is the New Republic-she’s supposed to be a big part of it.
"She was right but at the wrong time" - Spock, about Edith Keeler and peace, 'The City On The Edge Of Forever'. Sometimes, 'I just want this to be over' means delaying and being thorough in ensuring that it really is. Exhaustion, naivete and a repulsion for anything that even seemed like it might be Imperial became the pillars of 'Somehow'.
Now this is a weird pull, but in Gundam Build Fighters one of the main people in the tournement is a pair of Argentinian twin brothers, when fighting the Japanese rival character of the main character, who is also Japanese, they call him a peace spoiled brat who could never understand war. This implies that they were soldiers in the Falklands war and they viewed most others as people drunk on peace. It's something that always comes to mind when people get too comfortable with peace. A weird take away from the most toy commercial of Gundam series but peace spoiled and peace drunk both work
Being warmongers didn't really serve the Argentinians well. They still lost to the supposedly peace drunk British. War is still hell and should be avoided, yet prepared for.
If the Third Republic does not wanted to have a massive military, then let the territories needed to be reduced and the reorganization is required. By governing just the Core Worlds and the Colonies, the Republic will be just fine. As for the rest of the galaxy, let them develop their own polities. After that, the Republic can formed good relations with those who wanted to be friends with the Republic.
Thrawn may not be as politically adept as one would like, but his careful decisions in using resources, both man and machine, is what inspired those to follow him. There is no such thing as a wasteful mission to Thrawn, each action has a purpose, each loss calculated and worthwhile in the end (most of the time). Pair him as leader with the political savyness of a charismatic political leader who can rally the civilian populace behind him, and you have a society of loyal subjects knowing their fates are not wasted without good reason. Eventually, most if not all the bad military officers or soldiers would be booted as their ineffectiveness showed through and replaced by officers and soldiers willing to follow any order. Would have been a good thing to see.
Alan, let me put this one to you as a large meta what if: Filoni decides, and gets the go-ahead on, erasing the sequels entirely inside of these current post-ROTJ series, To wit, he creates a Kyle Reese/Future Trunks who comes back through the world between worlds and has to save the New Republic from its wretched downfall. What do they change or try to? Where would they even start, and with whom? I mean, unthinkably, what if Mon Mothma was killed by vengeful Imperial agents right after Endor? Or something more humane? What if the Skywalker Twins had revealed who they were much earlier on, like in Legends, leaving no leak made at a critical time? Grasping at straws here, but after the inevitability of the history revealed in the prequels, watching another avoidable train wreck has gotten to be a bit much.
In Legends the New Republic worked then fell, then became the Free Alliance, & failed then became part of a new empire BUT each time they kept trying something. Here in this “canon” the New Republic never tried nor learned a thing. No surprise they got Death Star 3.0ed
So to pivot to another piece of media for a second - I like that in Fallout New Vegas, the most good for the most people option is the NCR, but only if you put in the work to hold it accountable and influence its decisions for the better through the game. If you’re just going to blindly follow where the NCR will already go on its own, House or Independent are both probably better options depending on whether you put more value on security or liberty. I think that’s an accurate reflection of the virtues and limitation of representative democracy as represented by the NCR or the New Republic - it doesn’t inherently produce good or more moral or more effective results. Its virtue is that unlike autocracy it gives the public the mechanisms by which it can be course corrected and directed it to producing good results within the designed system - but that requires constant work and democratic engagement.
Jj abbrams is the main reason why new republic went soft then got wiped out. Only if ,only if new republic had an action sequence in episode 7. New republic definitely looks better than resistance.
Whats frustrating to me is that it didn't have to be this way, Not to sound like a Legends loyalist but retreading ground with the Evil tyranny rising against unprepared rebels is boring! Instead, it would've been WAY more interesting and creative to do a competent new republic but this time against a force dissimilar to the empire, say the Yuuzhan Vong or anything different from what we've seen. I'm still holding on for hope though, but won't be surprised if they double down on old ideas unfortunately
Honestly I appreciate this characterisation of the New Republic. Honestly I want the Republic to fall into a Balkanisations with numerous different local smaller governments creating numerous independent factions. I just think a divided galaxy is a more interesting narrative position The most atrocious plan was failing to support local defense fleets. It's not simply the imperials, but the need to protect systems from pirates, gangsters and even mega corps. Without the localised monopoly of violence, can it even be said that the government is the government? Monopolization fi violence goes hand in hand with infrastructure and civil services. You see this in real life. In cities where there's a break down of civil services, infrastructure you see a competitive market of violence.
Until the next sith lord shows up with a fleet and starts taking them over one by one because with all those separate governments, it won't let them put up a united and quick defense. That kind of thing might work for the balkins, but in a universe where ftl travel is real, a force can come in from the unknown region at any time and wipe a small planet or sector out. Applying your flawed ideologies that are far from proven in the real world to a fictional one where supernatural entities exist does not make you intelligent.
The Disney canon new Republic mon mothma , demilitarisation was a terrible idea. Vs her legends policy. And shouldn't she be retired due to health issues caused by an assassination attempt. ( new Canon) . ( empires end ) ? In legends she had a large military but decentralised, with local sector military under local command with federal funding, and a smaller peacetime military.
As inspirational as mon mothma’s kind, compassionate and peaceful ideals are she ultimately made a colossal mistake by instituting a mass disarmament while there were still a considerable number of imperial remnants active and worse yet granting amnesty to any and all imperials who supposedly wanted it followed by allowing said recipients into positions of power and authority thus allowing the enemy to infiltrate and destroy the new republic from the inside. Simply put those very ideals which made mon mothma a great leader during the galactic civil war would cause more harm than good during the postwar period and would make the new republic a big joke sadly. If she had listened to Lea and her supporters than there’d have been a good chance of eliminating the first order before it could even exist just my personal opinion of course.
The reason that the New Republic is screwed is because JJ Abrams can only do one type of storytelling: take a pre-existing canon and burn it down. The New Republic got a brief wave-away and now much more competent writers and showrunners are stuck having to make a coherent story that ends with the devastating disappointment of the sequel trilogy. Go play with your mystery box JJ and stop ruining other people's franchises.
Not a new thing that’s been said but that line about Imperials inhabiting many sectors of government within the New Republic makes its fall more believable.
Pikachu face :o Mon Mothma and Leia Organa did the same to the Empire.
Did the new republic not leave some police force to guard the planets? They didn't have enough resources and people to assign into eradicating the empire remnants? I mean Mando and Ashoka found those easily, in matter of days. So the new republic must be extremely incompetent.
The New Republic Amnesty Program is the single dumbest program both in conception and execution.
The new republic should learn from the past and leave the outer rim alone
@AgentGodzillaRPIndeed, much harder.
As Bane put it: "Peace has cost you your strength. Victory has defeated you."
Daaaaaaammit. Just posted this without looking.
Si vis pacem, para bellum "if you want peace prepare for war" - Roman proverb
Or Washington amended it "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace"
I was just about to post this.. lol..
The best quote ever
Same thing was explained by Kreia in KOTOR
I remember the rogue one novillisation. She thinks how ironic it was that she who was anti war all her career was now busy building a military to wage a civil war.
Yea she’s quickly shaping up to be one of the more interesting characters in Star Wars can’t wait to see more of her in Andor
@@GenerationTechsame. I've never really cared much about Mon Mothma, but after Andor, I am extremely invested in her character and plot arc. I really, really want her to get her own show, and I want it to properly flesh out her time between Andor and A New Hope.
Novelisation.
its about as ironic as not taking a bath for months and then finally having to take a bath, but it perfectly illustrates her character and why she is poison to the republic.
the whole theme of the SW universe is "delusional extremism is disastrous for everyone, only balance can acheive lasting peace", both in the force and in politics.
mon mothma is a great character as she illustrates the counterpoint to the sith, pacifism taken to such a delusional extreme that it dooms the republic and leaves the door wide open for any dipshit imperial warlord to take over, and its kinda maddening because people like that are all too common and they never "get it" until its too late.
@@jedpotts6065 Been there, done that!
Having won the war, Mon Mothna lost the peace, by disbanding her military, reinstitution of the failed practices of the old republic and inability to persuade hardline imperials to accept the agreed peace.
Military wasn’t completely disbanded, and don’t take what we see in episode 3 as the whole fleet before anyone gets smart about it.
@@splatoonistproductions5345 90% of the military of the new republic was disbanded following peace with the empire. Leaving not large enough force to do anything more than protect the systems of the new republic and were stretched thin doing that.
A significant chuck of that remaining fleet over several hundred ships were destroyed at Honisan prime by starkiller base and remainder soon after as the firsat order launched its conquest of the galaxy.
@@wedgeantillies66 I KNOW! but on that subject it does leave enough ships to protect many member worlds, tho I think if I remember correctly a lot of them still built defence forces of their own. Being supplied with surplus/modern ships and weapons with joint training exercises between republic and local defence forces to strengthen interoperability and quality of personnel. I think the general idea was that local defence forces would in a war just defend their respective worlds while the NR deploys small task forces to help bolster defences and counter attack after any failed attempts since they would be weakened to a degree.
I do agree it’s kinda silly that she got rid of 90%, that can be really bad but we have no idea how many ships the NR had at the end of the war, but it’s still considered a navy and army which is FAR MORE than the post reformation of the republic 1000 years before phantom menace. plus we don’t even know how big many individual defence forces outside/inside the new republic are, tho I’d guess from TROS that some had a couple cap ships at least with a handful of support ships and dozens of fighters outside what the support and cap ships carry. Like, we see old mc 75’s and what seems to be sub classes of it in the battle, so it’s possible the NR did sell off a bunch of their older ships to defence forces but I wanna hear something concrete either in the ahsoka series or the upcoming film.
I’m just a big fleet nerd, not of necessarily BIG FLEETS; just one of ships, fleet compositions, doctrine and all sorts
What made her think she would even be successful without the Jedi Order of old that were the de facto peace-keepers in the galaxy until the Empire? No such force existed post-Endor.
@@splatoonistproductions5345 True and that is quite possibly what happen. However, we know they were decommissioning and scrapping ships as well as using imperial ones to make new ones. So as you say it is highly likely that I lot of defence forces end up with forces made up of whole hosts of rebellion era ships from fighters to frigates to cruisers easily enough. Which could beat back pirates and local problems, but be overwhelmed one on one by first order task forces.
It was and from what we know they retained enough of a fleet that was modernised and updated over the years. Being used to defend key systems, shipyard's military bases and the borders. Indeed, no one could beat the military weaken position of the old republic post ruusan and said military weakness, pay well into the sith's grand plan to eventually size power.
Ditto and glad to hear it as love that type of stuff, myself along with battles and campaigns chucked in and how fleet compositions and tactics influenced said events.
Ashoka calling those workers on Corellia greedy really missed the point when the manager told her that these people needed food on the table.
Yess
Yes, but she was a jedi and jedi are hypocrites!
@@fsdf4311c not to mention she and other remains Jedi might not have to go through that.
She still thinking like a Jedi despite saying she no Jedi
@@bet0v966 on occasions, on today's episode she called the Jedi way a flaw but, she mostly sticks to her views.
The New Republic: WE DEFEATED THE EMPIRE! TIME TO CELEBRATE AND BECOME COMPLACENT
The Yuuzhan Vong: Hello there
The canon New Republic wouldn't last five seconds against the Vong. No active Jedi and not much of a military lol.
the legends new republic got wiped out so bad they had to rebrand
@@Darth_XionnThe 1st Order wouldn't last long either...
@@deewatsoon6036 👍👍
@@deewatsoon6036it would last longer anyway
The New Republic parallels the idealistic Weimar Republic of Germany after WW1 until the rise of Hitler to power in 1933.
Yep. Although to be fair, so does the Old Republic. In fact, George Lucas heavily based the Old Republic off the Weimar Republic and he used several historical figures for the role of Palpatine as inspiration including Hitler, George W. Bush, Richard Nixon and Caesar.
@-CrimsoN- bronk swear that was my first thought. How doomed the Weimar Republic was from the start.
Nah, it reminds me more of modern germany tbh. Weimar germany was not idealistic. It was just imperial germany minus the military and the emperor. And that void was quickly filled by the freicorps and hitler.
It is modern germany that is blindly anti-fascist to the point where they are unable to solve problems that the nazis could have easily handled, constantly coping with more liberal dogmatism and making things worse.
@@miniaturejayhawk8702define how the nazi would "solve" these issues
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 The Nazis didn't easily handle problems, the idea that Fascism is somehow more efficient than democracies is complete bollocks. you can extend that to most totalitarian systems. All of them eventually collapse because of their inability to problem solve and/or the incompetence that puts loyalty to the state above all things , especially competence.
Read Adam Tooze - The Wages of Destruction. Also read Richard J Evens's whole trilogy on the Reich and how phenomenally crap they were at actual governing anything.
It's become fashionable amongst certain quarters of the internet to recycle the myths that Nazi Germany made for itself and idiots lap it up for some reason. Don't be one of them.
I’m like the New Republic in the Lengends timeline after the Thrawn and the Empire reborn crisis, they made changes to the government and maintained a fleet that was always ready to deal with threats
Same, but I honestly don't mind Disney's perspective on the New Republic. Like Disney screwed up with a lot of stuff, but I like how flawed the New Republic is. It's a refreshing take, because the New Republic in Legends is pretty badass, but also infallible. They literally do nothing wrong (well except putting Daala in a position of power). It's refreshing to see the New Republic as not this perfect government as it's depicted in Disney canon.
@@-CrimsoN-really do some faction that’s weaker than the empire at its highest point really make the new republic flawed to me it just bad writing and if they wanted it to be flawed bring in thrawn as a pragmatic genius he is and watch him carefully and methodically make people question the new republic
@@-CrimsoN-also the new republic was flawed however what we need is a balanced approach to not make them underpowered but not over powered ether but a middle ground which I believe this would make a great series but not a movie
@@-CrimsoN- The New Republic in Legends also screwed up badly.
Thrawn beat the shit out of it so badly that it was almost outright destroyed while proving the Empire still had what it took to be the dominate power. Thrawn is the reason that the New Republic in legends fully reversed on the idea that it needed no military here.
Canon New Republic didn't learn from its mistakes and didn't survive. Legend New Republic realized it's mistakes before it could kill the fledging government and adapted.
This idea that the old stuff was 'infallible' is itself a ridiculous flaw. It doesn't take into account the idea that people can learn from mistakes and be better tomorrow then they were today. That people like Wedge Antilles can spot weakness in the New Republic BEFORE it becomes something it's enemy can capitalize on and plug that gap to demonstrate competence at his job doesn't make him 'infallible' and therefore 'boring'. It means when they do fail, it has far more meaning and then the question becomes, "how can he come back from that failure and ensure that it doesn't happen again?"
THAT is where the magic happens. And when he runs into people who are just as competent at their job as he is? That's when the creativity comes out. And that is when things get truly 'interesting'.
We need an in-universe podcast hosted by Mays Migfeld and DJ just complaining about how terrible the government is and bringing up all sorts of wild conspiracies
😑 . . . I recommend looking for a Pod Cast by Mike Winter of Minnesota.
IF you want to be a Rebel with a Cause, this is it, no doubt about it…
I’d listen to that
In universe conspiracy theorists is never something I've considered, but that sounds both hilarious and fascinating. I would gladly watch/listen to that. It would unironically help flesh out the lore and world building.
Damn, now I really want that!
Instead of Joey Diaz, it’s Dex
I'd join a patreon for that. It'd be wonderful.
Wartime leaders and peacetime leaders are great leaders.....but they are rarely interchangeable.
As Bane said: “victory has defeated you”
"Peace has cost you your strength. Victory has defeated you."
@@Lobsterwithinternet lol, great minds...
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't give away."
Mon Mothma really needed to hear and understand this. She and her Senate party can close their eyes to the threats all around them, but they will still be there when their eyes open up. And you can't live your life walking around with your eyes closed; sooner or later, you'll take a fall that will end you.
Without spoilers there was one thing in this episode that bugged me a lot. A certain General during a briefing withheld some key information about her encounter that would have gotten a much more serious reaction from mon mothma but they intentionally withheld the information for the sake of plot and that bugs me
Sometimes it’s a real issue with plot points, you have to have a good writing to back up the outcome
after failing to get a fleet, she could’ve just asked for a dozen fighters
@@freddysw It's also detrimental to the characters, because she is such a cool character and having her act stupid for no reason other than plot makes her seem less competent
Almost as if filloni is not a messiah
@@jobt1999 I don't think he is but even though he's definitely not the best writer he's still the best person for the job. Unfortunately Star Wars by its very Nature has never had good writing other than Andor even with George Lucas at the helm. But even though Andor was probably one of the best series Star Wars has ever produced it wasn't well-received because it lacked the Star Wars world-building and charm. And although Lucas and Dave filoni are not the best writers when it comes to Star Wars storytelling and world-building no one can match them. And Star Wars and what the fans enjoy world-building and storytelling is far more important than the quality of the writing which Star Wars has never really had. So no Dave filoni is not a messiah but he's still the best bet we have for enjoyable Star Wars content especially since most modern Star Wars lore including the Magnificent Clone Wars was created by Him
@@Cwronaga216 "the best we have" how far it must have fallen that we accept this as the bar.
The biggest issue with the New Republic? Well, they threw out almost everything from the Imperial Navy. The Imperial Navy was by all accounts superior to the rebel fleet, which became the new Navy. The New Republic didn’t even bother to upgrade their fleet with Imperial Navy tech, except I guess Rogue Squadron’s “Uglies” that sometimes mixed a Tie Fighter with a A or X-Wing or whatever combination of imperial and rebel parts
New Republican: Ma’am our new helmets fit our Mon Cala recruits perfectly now
Mon Mothma: but they are effective protection, right?
New Republican: they fit everyone!
damn mon calamari always turning up the humidity on their starcruisers
I actually have started to like them
That's the single best metaphor for the New Republic I've ever heard.
New Republican: Do you believe we’ve made a mistake of some kind
Man watching this, then seeing the latest episode of Ahsoka, it feels like the New Republic needs a lesson I the proverb: "If you want peace prepare for war", not to mention Perun's video about how corruption ruins militaries.
Thank you so much for these breakdowns. Unlike my friends I do really enjoy the political aspects of Star Wars.
The is a lot to be said about the critique and contrast between the crumbling Republican apparatus and overreaching Imperial authoritarianism
I still think, many of the rebels would have been smart. Solo, Lando, and others would have hidden star ships under the guise of disarmament. "returned" mon cala ships to the seas turning them into buildings again... but no removing anything from them... sent ships to world like komeno to become cities there... maybe give kamino to the Quorin.
*The New Republic definitely has issues that they tried to do bette than the Empire. But, there's always going to be organizations that have some areas that just won't function appropriately, no matter how hard they try to get it to work. And the New Republic is just another thing that has failed at certain things during its existence.*
Yeah, the New Republic would just have the same failings as the old one, once the honeymoon was over for the end of the Galactic Civil War. No one government could manage so many people and places and still stick to ideals of some kind of representative democracy or effective central government. On most worlds you were on your own and if you didn't have the resources to protect your interests someone was going to come along and take advantage of your weakness and isolation unless by dumb luck you were so isolated and unremarkable that no one ever noticed you.
I actually think this is more about the people who run the government. Consider this, most of the senators who were around when Mothma, Bail, and Padme were around. A lot of them buried their heads in the sand and rode out the storm that was the empire and Palpatine. And unlike the Mothma and Bail most of them didn't really do anything to help the Rebel Alliance in any meaningful way mostly out of fear and self-preservation. Those opposed gambled heavily and not all of them survived, further emphasizing the point of heads in sand. Now fast-forward to Endor, the Senate had been all but disbanded and those senators were mostly living pretty rich lives all things considered. And then the empire collapsed, they immediately raise their hands praising the fall as they rode the storm and now the Republic is being reinstated. So, they need Senators with experience, well there is a bunch sitting in their lavish homes and think alright I can make this work. And with that they know Mothma and what she is like, they play to it and return the Republic back to the state they were at before the empire. Which meant worlds like Navaro, and other worlds being exploited and taxed without representation. And let's be honest, those worlds probably had trained soldiers and pilots from the Rebel Alliance who were more than willing to show those same Senators which end on a blaster did the bolts come from. And without a really functioning banking and trade system in place, or a reasonable standing force to protect it any semblance of authority was hilariously and sadly under equipped. And those same worlds who refused to go back to status quo were left to face the music on their own since the Republic, well the Senators, were more than willing to line their own pockets at the expense of everything else if it meant keeping the status quo and keeping the people who mattered happy and dumb. And Mothma having to keep them on her side, doesn't really seem to understand or is fine with this. Making her part of the problem voluntarily or not due to that fact she needs them, and she needs to be friendly with them. I'll be honest I'm more surprised the New Republic endured before the First Order just because they are that inept. Both of them are that bad, least legends had some semblance of learning from some of their mistakes and trying to deal with them in a meaningful way rather than heads in sand screaming "LALALALA" till they ran out breath.
I refuse to accept this version of the new republic I like the legends version better as it makes more sense story wise don’t get me wrong it had some issues but it was way better than this from what I read in the thrawn trilogy
You know, sometimes I click on these videos just to help support your channel. I never walk in with any expectations. However, you're so thoughtful and articulate that it's almost always a surprising pleasure. In an absurd world where nuance is dead, your insightful mind provides a rational spark of hope in the illogical darkness.
The biggest mistake Mon Mothma ever did is dismantling her military because most of the talented heroes of the rebellion is now jobless and suddenly those scum and greedy Empire senators suddenly got a seat at the top of her government even though they didn't even do a single thing for the rebellion. I think Leia'd be a better candidate for the government because Leia is a tough politician and military leader which is inherited from Bail while Mon Mothma is literally just an idealist nothing more.
While the New Republic's incompetence is a huge part of the story, I wish they'd show some successes more often, or at least rationalize some decisions. For instance, I think in the Mando ep with the pirates, if they go to a non-NR world guns blazing, they might send an unsavory message to nonaligned worlds, even if they save lives. Some could try to spin it as an act of imperialistic intervention and then the NR would have more enemies, and people in the NR that DO want to become imperialist and take over more planets would be able to use the Nevarro incident as propaganda. But none of that was said in the episode sadly, maybe that officer could've said a bit of it to make the decision at least a bit understandable.
"Peace has cost you your strength. Victory has defeated YOU!"
Empire with Thrawn at the helm probably would of ultimately been the best option for people in general.
The empire with Sidious and Vader in charge was a ineffectual nightmare, which i think in some way they wanted it like that, but with Thrawn in charge of the empire the galaxy would be a better place, not perfect but better than without him.
The problem with Thrawn at the helm, AIUI, is that politics and political machinations were a significant weak point of his. He would be excellent so long as he was able to prevent himself being undermined by others, but I don’t know how long that would last.
A galactic sized democracy is just folly to begin with. Especially when countless planets are locally *not* democratic and are various flavors of authoritarian. The republic should just be broken apart into smaller factions and states. The Mandolorians and separatists were in the right for wanting to charter their own destinies free some extremely naive republics
chances are he would have found someone to help with such as a senator or moff@@andrewblake8286
Thrawn is a good commander but a person leading the whole galaxy in general might be far from his expertise
Ahsoka ignores the fact that many people supported the Empire because they saw it as offering order and stability. She dismisses their motivation as greed because as a victim of Imperial policy herself she can't empathise with people who feel differently.
They didn't show her or the trillions of beings who suffered needlessly under the Empire any empathy. the Empire was authoritarians leaning towards fascism. The Empire offering order and stability was like mistaking quite for peace, all freedom, choice and difference mercilessly removed.
Why should she, their supporting the organisation that attempted to kill her on multiple occasions simply for existing, not to mention killing thousands of those she had known and trillions she did not?
True that. The Empire, despite how rotten it was at the top and the sith-like teachings that bled into things like it’s bureaucracy, Stormtrooper Corps, military leadership and politics, many people in the Empire’s complex were just regular ol’ Joes. The Empire to them, gave them a sustainable job, a safe living, the ability to become something beyond what many in poorer worlds would’ve seen as impossible.
Not to mention the funding that went into a lot of planets and regions as the industrial complex started chugging, bringing in much needed modernization and production value to planets and building up local economy.
It would make sense why so many would flock to it, the Empire quite literally pulled many, be it planets, people (Eli Vanto & Rae are good examples) or economies out of poverty and, especially due to the hard rationing that came with the Seperatist Crisis, stability.
The Empire was a Golden Age for the Core Worlds as long as it stuck to tyrannising the outer planets (see Star Wars Rebels). The minute Palpatine dissolved the Senate and his close associate Tarkin blew up Alderman the entire galaxy suddenly realised that they had a problem.
Being in combat and seeing hundreds of people close to you killed and or dying right beside you gives you a very different perspective on many many things. These people were a part of the organization that did those things that she saw first hand. If you’ve never been on a battlefield (more than likely not), it would be impossible to understand her perspective on this.
I used to read the books from Timothy Zawn, but not all of them. I always thought the new republic seemed a little...lost.
I think you're right about the New Republic seeming a little...lost. I thought so, too, when I first read Timothy Zahn's trilogy in the 1990s. Leia, Luke, and Han were dealing with Bothans and other species in building the New Republic, and Mon Mothma was always sending Leia on diplomatic trips to different planets, only to encounter a kidnapping attempt on Leia.
@@AdultThirdCultureKid1971that's not lost. It's just building the allainces necessary to actually integrate what they can into an effective new republic.
The Legends New Republic was a lot more effective - strong military to enforce the law and attempting to address the problems of the Old Republic that the Emperor exploited. In canon they're basically attempting to rebuild the Old Republic without a military capable of addressing the lawlessness seen in The Mandalorian or Ahsoka, or dealing with the fact that the outer planets viewed the Core Worlds as demanding taxes while offering few public services.
Didn't the New Republic with the Military Disarmament Act just end up falling into the same blunder the Republic did with Ruusan Reformation?
Yea the only major difference is at least the new republic has a small reaction force. Although I have to stress that both the republic and new republic wanted to rely on a more decentralized network of local defense forces which the federal government would subsidize. So they weren’t completely crazy.
@@GenerationTech The Old Republic's Judicial Forces would count as a small reaction force as well.
@GenerationTech You can see an actual functioning version of this with how the US organizes its military. The standing US army and Reserve are for quick response and holding/sustaining until the States National Guards can be activated and deployed. The mistake the Old and New Republics made wasn't disbanding or downsizing their armies. It was decommissioning their Navy. Having a Navy capable of responding to, and at the very least delaying hostile forces until the Army and Naval Reserve forces could be activated is vital. They ended up downsizing so much that they lost the ability to effectively respond to to rising threats. They couldn't even patrol space lanes to protect against Pirates.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul I was thinking the same thing. But it is sad that all the credit's that the Republic sent to each planet wasn't all used on the planetary defense forces.
Yep. There's a quote that I'm very fond of that perfectly describes this scenario: "The one thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns from history..."
I appreciate the New Republic painted out with all their flaws and beliefs. I think the most boring thing to imagine is the Star Wars universe becoming a utopia after the Empire. Like, have it be better sure, but not perfect.
Well, it certainly isn't called Star Peace. There's always going to be a conflict.
For me it just seemed weird how the NR grew complacent to where it got wiped out in TFA and was never heard from again after that in the movies. Just to me it makes the end of ROTJ seem less impactful since everything that the NR could have done wrong they did leading to the First Order and its immediate complete destruction. But I do appreciate we’re getting new material exploring these ideas even if I think some things could have been better executed.
Yea for sure I’m always excited to see how people try (and fail) to run a galaxy wide government.
@@Darth_Xionn Star Wars is actually more of a misnomer. You can go multiple yoda's lifetime without a large war breaking out. It's just the new Republic is so bad at governing.
Also Palpatine was right.
@Orion1189 To me, that is just bad writing.
That is the equivalent of America surrenders after DC gets nuked, but the rest of the country is fine. Especially after the means of which they nuke cities get eliminated shortly afterward. It made no sense.
Also, how did Snoke consolidate power so quickly? It seems like all you have to do to do that is sit on a fancy chair.
TLJ is just a retconing to establish the empire as the dominant power again. I liked the idea of the Empire devolving into a elusive terrorist organization. Instead we get a narrative that is going backward.
The sequels don't exist to me.
I'd love a Star Wars story from the point of view of a competent bad guy. Sith, imperial, imperial remnant, any evil faction really. The villain doesn't need to be the most evil or edgy either just highly pragmatic and aware they are not the good guy but DONT SWITCH SIDES. Wish we could explore why people chose to take the villain route. Also, I predict here Sith Apprentice in Ahsoka will switch sides to join Ahsoka, calling it now because this is Disney.
She isn't a Sith apprentice she's a Dark Jedi and the actor who plays the role as her master would force them to modify whatever they originally had in mind.
I love how you take a balanced approach to reality, when a big portion of our community can't take a balanced approach to fiction. Keep putting out great explanations!
Ahsoka has never been more wrong than when she failed to recognize the danger of enemies loyal to their cause. Summing it up to greed makes her seem out of touch and elitist.
I mean the corpo representative was definitely motivated by greed
Typical ivory tower thinking.
I mean did their greed not feed into their loyalty for the Empire?
I think it was more fear than greed...
@@connorbestbarlow1043 I don't think he was even involved in the sketchy shit. He never said for the empire and only tried to save himself. Sure he's doing what he's doing for money but I have mouths to feed to so I can't blame him for that. If you don't get payed your family doesn't get fed.
Mon Mothma's fallacy was trying to bring back the Republic of old instead of creating a new one that actually addresses the flaws and failures of the old that led to the Empire. Years of incompetence and corruption led to inexcusable gaping holes in economics, millitary and beauarcracy that the Sith could exploit. When a crisis (often engineered by the SIth) exposed the hole the Sith had a ready made solution to fill in the gap and Mon Mothma incorrectly saw these solutions as the problem instead of the Sith exploiting one.
Now Mon Mothma's New Republic had good ideas such as strengthening PDFs and encouraging independence but they bungled that, too many just left the New Republic only to fall prey to often malevolent interests and outside of wealthy worlds most PDFs had neither the resource or manpower to actually defend anything and no realistic amount of funding from the New Republic could empower every world in the galaxy to fix those issues. The New Republic needed a strong adaptable millitary and a strong government that encouraged and promoted membership but Mon Mothma and her government was too scared by the Empire and too nostalgic for the Old Republic to do that and we were left with a weak New Republic and a galaxy ripe for malevolent forces to exploit it, be it Imperial, warlord or criminal.
✨ neoliberalism ✨
I really enjoy your daily videos and the care and quality you put in them. 👏👏
So Legends New Republic worked because post-Endor had the alliance facing enemy after enemy which forced them to realize they needed to continuously develop and modernize their military to counter every threat that arose from the Black Fleet Crisis to the Yuuzang Vong whereas canon New Republic enjoyed a time of peace post Battle of Jakku and the New Republic got complacent which lead to their inevitable downfall
The aftermath trilogy of books literally only cover 1 year of events from endor to the battle of Jakku. They do not, in any way cover the 30+ years gap between episode 6 and 7.
My speculation is that after Episode IX the galaxy turned its back on supranational government altogether. The civilian fleet at Exegol may have fought against the First Order, but they didn't exactly flock to the New Republic or the Resistance earlier.
A galactic free for all? Could be interesting to see crime syndicates, Megacorps, imperialist systems, etc, duking it out for their own fiefdoms.
@@duncanharrell5009 precisely, with stronger planets and federations securing their borders against the lawlessness.
Canon. Legends. They both seem to have it out for the new republic really. Both end up getting rekt by an imperial remnant (in legends case, it was twice). It’s like this galaxy has a vendetta against democracy.
If we take Kotor 2 into account, that may be more true than we realize.
Or else democracy versus tyranny is the underlying theme of history.
Well democracy is not easy and has to be cherished and protected. The issue is that the republic like the Roman republic becomes much to large to effectively govern and then corruption starts to take hold degrading its institutions. That's how a democracy dies because it's leaders don't take care of it. Not that dictatorships aren't corrupt tho they are horrifically corrupt as we see with Russia who somehow ranked lower then south Africa on the corruption index
The thing is, in Legends at least, that multiple characters (usually Imperial) often point out that the great flaws of Democracy are what will always cause it to fail. As soon as a large enough group/coalition/faction/party of people within the whole figure out that they can just vote themselves things at the expense of the others, Democracy fails. As soon as ANY un-forseen problem arises, and forces certain groups/planets/sectors of people within the whole to choose between the good of themselves and the good of the whole, Democracy fails. A Democracy is built upon the foundational principal of popularity and equality, however, within such a system only the most pernicious and ambitious tend to succeed, and thus, Democracy fails.
Hell, it's the reason the Empire eventually wins, mostly. Until Krayt screwed it up, but he got what he deserved.
They weren't rekt, considering they won both conflicts, nor was it because of the issues with democracy..
Being overcome with peace and allowing potential threats to arise would make more sense (to me) in regards to the New Republic in the Canon if there was more time between Episodes 6 and 7.
Between the Battle of Jakku and the New Republic-First Order War in The Force Awakens, that's maybe what - 15, 20 years? That seems too short to me for the entire New Republic leadership to become too absorbed in peace to become blind to the many problems in the Galaxy.
There had to have been warlords left after the Galactic Concordance that chose to continue the war against the New Republic, or at least create their own miniature empires that would have to be dealt with. Probably not on the same scale as Legends, but still.
Then we have the many Imperial worlds that became independent again thanks to the Rebellion, and I'm sure that probably allowed some conflicts from the Clone Wars or earlier to resurface. Just look at the different ethnic and ideological conflicts that broke out in former colonies after WWII or in the former Warsaw Pact nations and Soviet republics after the Cold War, except on a galactic scale with science fiction technology. Did the New Republic completely ignore these conflicts, or would they not have acted in some peace-keeping fashion?
The fact that we're seeing this "peace sickness" afflicting the New Republic in shows like The Mandalorian and Ahsoka is even more mind-boggling to me.
Whereas SOME people who remembered the Galactic Civil War and the Empire's atrocities would probably have retired by the time of The Force Awakens, Ahsoka and The Mandalorian both take place within a few years of the Battle of Endor and the Battle of Jakku.
At this point, the majority of the New Republic's government, military and intelligence agencies were probably staffed by people who either lived through the reign of the Empire or literal VETERANS who had just narrowly defeated the Empire. How the hell did these same people allow the New Republic to become so weak and complacent, while so mind-numbingly incompetent? I understand some concerns they may have had about the New Republic becoming too powerful and wanting to avoid the mistakes that caused the Old Republic to become the Empire, but still - disarming the Alliance military within only a few years of the Galactic Concordance is ridiculous.
I know the short answer is probably Disney needed to replicate the same circumstances from A New Hope for The Force Awakens, logic be damned and let some other poor people try to worldbuild around it.
I agree with your analysis in-universe, but I think it might be worth doing an out-of-universe exploration. I watched Ahsoka last week and a few things were bothering me about it, specifically the ending and what we know happens 20 years later. But then I really got to thinking about it and I had a face palm moment. In my day to day life, I spend my time researching history. My specific area of research is the era between the Revolution (1740 -1790) and the Civil War. My question was the threat didn't make sense considering how heavily the New Republic military was downgraded during the events of TFA. The answer is that the United States did the same exact thing after 1783. In their case, their standing army was one regiment, the First American Regiment. This increased to 10,000 during the Quasi-War with France, only to be decreased back down to one regiment in 1800. This means that at the start of the War of 1812, the US's army was about equivalent to what we see the New Republic's military in TFA.
In a way Palpatine won: The New Republic is again not caring about individuals, cold biurocracy. Palpatine (or someone similar) could use that again to create The New Empire.
But it is impossible to be benevolent Emperor. Any of us would say: „I would do this better” and it is a challenge to not become corrupt by power.
Andor had us watching competent Imps and rebels outsmart each other. Ahsoka has us watching incompetent Imps and rebels out stupid each other. And boy is Filoni giving it his best shot.
Not to mention the acting- every time Ashoka, Sabine or Hera talks or move im embarassed for them. They are trying to hard to seem cool but its just flat and cliche feeling. Sabine is perpetually annoyed it seems
It’s possible that the more competent & brave Imps & Rebels got killed off because they fought in the frontlines.
Similar to how the best of the Northmen died off during the Red Wedding leaving boorish scum like show version Smalljon & Harald Karstark.
Let's do a vid on how one temper tantrum destroyed the new republic.
Who threw the temper tantrum that destroyed the New Republic?
Alan, you are hands down the best starwars commentator on youtube
Thanks a lot Alan, as a Philadelphian this one hurt more than usual.
😝
Star Wars has always been separated geopolitically. It was shown best in the animated series where the core worlds hardly have any suffering and the fighting was in the outer rim. We see it today, where a nation is under siege and outside the sphere of influence due to associations of others.
I felt that closing line a lot deeper at the end of this one. Brought out a heavy sigh and even a tear to me eye
Mon Mothma was amazing in the rebellion but she has been a fool in this era I actually want Thawn to have a conversation when he returns with one of the main characters saying I considered allying with the new republic but they are ineffective to defend the galaxy fom the grysk the empire must return thrawn does not care to be emperor but he wants to save his people
Pardoning most non-combatants was a good move. Many of them were just men and women trying to get by, working for the Empire because they worked under the Republic before that or because they wanted a decent wage.
Now, many of these workers would undergo some form of loyalty shift from the constant propaganda of the Empire, making them slightly biased against the New Republic, but they were still mostly loyal to themselves and didn’t care who was paying them as long as the paycheck didn’t change. I would assume a janitor hired by the Empire didn’t care if the New Republic took over. Or even some Imperial Admirals wouldn’t care because they served the Galactic Republic before.
As for combatant Imperials, it varies quite a bit. Many soldiers in the Navy and Army were just men with dreams of exploring the Galaxy and seeing some action with a good paycheck, or a member of a planetary defense force/local military that was dissolved and joined into the Empire. They’d not really care, or even be happy, that the New Republic took over, or they might be pissed. The Stormtroopers are made up entirely of extreme loyalists, they were practically brainwashed to love the Empire, so they’d revolt and join the Imperial Remnant factions immediately
How did you give them all such brilliant bright smiles in the thumbnail?
Your TH-cam channel is absolutely amazing.The content you create is both entertaining and informative,Keep up the fantastic work, you're doing a fantastic job.
Your hard work and dedication are truly inspiring. Keep shining and reaching new heights 🙏🏻
LOL at the thumbnail😂 I am just glad that your editing skills are being used for a channel like this as opposed to a hate Channel
hehe you have no idea how much i enjoy doing these thumbnails 😂 I
Love your content and interesting to see how the new republic is falling apart.
Great work GenTech, I really enjoy your content.
To paraphrase Geo. Washington "Si vis pacem, para bellum... If you want Peace, prepare for War."
That's Mon Mothma's issue, she would rather have issues go Sideways with weak and Elitist philosophy than admit that a Strong Military is an absolute.
But, if you look back... Garm Bel Iblis, whom Mel Gibson would be cool as, was right about her.
14:40 this is actually something a lot of people do in real life. People go to gun shows and buy pieces of WW2 Germany to preserve and appreciate the historical value.
I live in Austria, and this entire process of trying to integrate and to reeducate those imperials who could be converted into post war society and exterminate those who couldn't reminds me very much of de nazification in my country post WWII, where most higher-ups in society where former high nazi officials (btw one of the most popular parties today stems directly from those same nazis)
“Victory has defeated you.”
-Darth Bane
Mon was the one who chose to demilitarize as soon as they were “sure” that the Empire was defeated.
I always saw the biggest problem of the new republic was the same problem as the previous republic. It was too big. They would be better off creating multiple governments that work with each other, their own defense forces and senate. No tight borders but multiple leaders across the galaxy each with their own territory to look after. peace and trade treaties tied together to prevent a sector government from trying to expand and you would have better defenses and protections for everyone in the galaxy.
Lol I love how the recent videos keep being recorded in what looks like different areas of your home. Lol I feel like we're getting the combo home tour and Star wars lore vids and it's fun lol
Star Wars: Disney Canon Universe (LEGENDS is still better in every way)
New Republic: We started a successful rebellion to defeat you.
Palpatine: Really? Then let me start a rebellion to defeat the New Republic and let's see how that turns out.
New Republic: 😵😵😵
Hell, the same thing happened in Legends too lol the Dark Empire nearly caused the New Republic to collapse and the Imperials managed to retake Coruscant for a time before turning on each other in the Imperial Civil War. If I remember, Palpatine actually did this on purpose to punish those who betrayed him after his first death... no wonder the Empire never won. Imagine wasting your military resources on a civil war that you started to punish your subordinates lol New Republic was forced back onto the Outer Rim for a time.
The Desean Jackson quip was chef’s kiss
I'm really sad Rangers of the Republic got cancelled. I know most people just want all out action, but I would love to see more of the politics that lead to the downfall of the New Republic. Honestly, I wish they would use Hera or Carson Teva and continue with the show as they had planned. Mon Mothma has quickly become one of my favorite characters too and the more we get of her the better.
I still question the EU narrative that Leia was driven out of politics because a political rival found out that she was Darth Vader's daughter. For starters, I just don't see that story sticking considering how she was adopted right out of the delivery room. Anakin's marriage to Padme was never public knowledge, and the Empire tried to downplay the fact that Vader was Anakin. Even though it was the truth, to somebody without an audience eye view of the situation it would look like a political smear campaign. Especially if the general public was becoming apathetic towards the Empire it doesn't make much sense that this would keep Leia out of politics for *decades* after the war.
That wasn't in the EU. You're talking about the canon book, "Bloodlines". In the old EU, it wasn't that widely known. Luke kept it private amongst his Jedi. Some Imperial remnants knew. That's why Jacen and Jaina were the target of kidnappings when they were little.
@@amarcellus1714 - That's why I said "EU" and not "Legends". Make no mistake, the new novels, comics and games are *not* "canon" any more than Legends was. As was the case with Legends, the more privileged writers and directors working on movies and shows don't have to care about following the print media and can retcon or even outright ignore it. That's how Poe went from lifelong military brat to former smuggler in RoS.
@daniels7907 understandble. it's just that Old EU and Legends are usually together grouped as the same thing. When Disney took over, they swore that the novels, comics, and games under them would be canon with the movie and shows. But we all know how that is going. Lol
@@amarcellus1714 - Some of us have been through this before. A lot of Legends, especially from the early-90's, got casually wiped away by George Lucas. Because the OT didn't provide much exposition about the Jedi and Sith, early EU authors made a lot of stuff up. Most notably, it was assumed that because Anakin had married that Jedi in general did so and that there were whole Jedi family lineages. Lucas killed that in AotC when it was formally explained that Jedi weren't even supposed to be serious about dating.
Disney opened with the lie that their new EU was "canon". But the directors and writers of the movies and shows don't care about what somebody else wrote in a novel or a comic and so they disregard the written "canon" much the same as George did.
@@daniels7907 I know. I've been with the EU since the Thrawn Trilogy and Shadows of the Empire. At this point it's best for the fans to stick to their own head canon.
It's interesting to see Mothma and the New Republic overcorrecting Palaptine so hard that it caused its downfall
To be perfectly honest, they should’ve kept that rebellion mentality
The biggest mistake Mon Mothma ever did is dismantling her military because most of the talented heroes of the rebellion is now jobless and suddenly those scum and greedy Empire senators suddenly got a seat at the top of her government even though they didn't even do a single thing for the rebellion. I think Leia'd be a better candidate for the government because Leia is a tough politician and military leader which is inherited from Bail while Mon Mothma is literally just an idealist nothing more.
That was part of what Thrawn taught the New Republic in Legends. The idea that Peace at any Cost will destroy you when faced with people who believe in Violence as a First Resort.
The New Republic in Legends when faced with destruction took to heart the lesson "If you wish for Peace, Prepare for War." It's the only reason the New Republic survived so many crises after Thrawn. And he was intentionally using Kid Gloves.
I much prefer the EU. The Empire didn't die, it took 15 years after Endor for them to end the gakactic Civil War. They were still armed. The Rebellion made the mistake of thinking Palpatine’s death would demoralize them. It did not. It wasn’t until they saw the emoty throne that they began to cannibalize themselves.
Later they did regroup, fell apart. Regrouoed again. Failed. Then firmed the initial Fel Empire, which outlasted the Republic.
I'm not a fan of Disney's canon entirely, but I much prefer this intepretation of the New Republic over Legends. The Legends New Republic was kickass, but it had too many perfect people. I mean it literally stood up against multiple galaxy spanning crises and still continued to exist until the end of the Vong War, which just saw it evolve into the Galactic Alliance. But the way Disney is approaching the New Republic just seems more realistic. I think Disney's New Republic and the Legends Galactic Alliance actually have a lot in common. The political corruption, the vaguely authoritarian elements under the guise of maintaing a free "democracy", the errosion of civil liberties (see the Second Galactic Civil War in Legends).
Or what is going on with our government. Take out the space ship and saber fights. It's our government and politicians today.
@@chriswood1210 Yeah. Which is fair, because Star Wars has always tried to stay close to current events. Like I know George Lucas was inspired by Cold War politics for the original and then Bush era/post-911 politics for the prequel era. Just seems like Disney is trying to stick close to that theme, which I can appreciate. I'm not a fan of the sequels, but this kind of expanded universe stuff. I can't help but like it. I still love Star Wars Legends, but Disney's expanded universe is a different, but still valid take.
I got a poll thing and said it was a good recommendation
The boiled down answer is that humans are humans, bureaucrats will always be bureaucrats, and combining those two facts gives us the same results regardless of who is the ceremonial head of the government.
Mon Mothma was also too risk averse to be militarily and strategically effective. She is an example of why bureaucrats and politicians should never be in charge of waging wars.
Great one, as always Alan!
1:45 Indeed THAT never made and STILL makes no sense to me. Wouldn't the emperor want the Imperial remnants to unite and cause as much headache as possible for the New Republic?!?
Like poisoning the wells in spite.
There is honestly a fun little parralel between the politics of the universe of Star Wars and the state of the franchise.
Original Trilogy
=>a plucky group of rebel, tired of the evil galactic Empire, decide to go on a daring quest to defeat the Empire and win the day, instauring a new Republic
=>a plucky young realisator, tired with the evil studio system, decide to go on a daring quest to become independant and challenge the system, become one of the most successfull producer in history
Prequel Trilogy
=>a 1000 years old Republic, led by an old man, is torn appart by corrupt politician and ultimately turn into an evil Empire, putting in charge an Emperor who had gained the trust of the former Republic years ago
=>a roughly 40 years old cinematic franchise, run by an old man, is torn appart by stupid fan and is ultimatelly sold to an evil entertainement Empire, putting in charge a CEO who had gained the trust of the franchise years ago
Sequel Trilogy
=>Under new leadership, the New Republic was supposed to bring a new era of freshness to the galaxy, but it turns out it's run by absolute hacks who will ignore every signals that they're running the galaxy to the ground, because they're more busy with making money. Meanwhile, a small group of people that actually care about the whole thing try to salvage this mess, but are powerless as the evil Emperor previously defeated still somehow remain which is absolute bullshit.
=>Under a new leadership, Lucasfilm was supposed to bring a new era of freshness to the franchise, but it turns out it's run by absolute hacks who will ignore every signal that they're running the franchise to the ground, because they're more busy with making money. Meanwhile, a small group of people that actually care about the whole thing try to salvage this mess, but are powerless as the incompetent CEO tangled in so much controversies somehow remain, which is absolute bullshit.
It's like poetry, it rhyme.
Why couldn’t Disney give us a Battle of Jakku movie? Show us what happened and how the empire “ended”
glad i'm team thrawn/chiss, bring on the grysk wars!
yes we've got more lethal opponents and evils to worry about- the grysks 🤭😆
Considering that its capital was obliterated by the First Order in The Force Awakens, the New Republic was indeed screwed.
The New Republic should've never demilitarized to begin with. Many senators were afraid of a militarized republic, and perhaps rightfully so, but I think this could've been avoided by writing a strong constitution that the military is loyal to rather than a single person.
Mon Mothma has definitely become one of my favorite characters in Star Wars these past few years but she did have flaws. Her biggest flaw, in my opinion, was trying to rebuild the pre-Clone Wars republic. This was a corrupt and ineffectual government to begin with. Assuming the current Disney canon hasn't changed too much, the pre-Clone Wars republic was essentially a pawn in a game being played by the Rule of Two Sith. The Sith, from Darth Bane to Sidious, had corrupted the republic and made it weak over the centuries. Obviously Mon Mothma wouldn't have known that but she at least knew that the republic was corrupt and should've known better than to try to rebuild it.
If anything, she should've looked to establish the New Republic based on the republic prior to the Ruusan Reformations.
It felt… weird that Leia wasn’t a part of that council. I mean I know the real reason, but this is the New Republic-she’s supposed to be a big part of it.
"She was right but at the wrong time" - Spock, about Edith Keeler and peace, 'The City On The Edge Of Forever'. Sometimes, 'I just want this to be over' means delaying and being thorough in ensuring that it really is. Exhaustion, naivete and a repulsion for anything that even seemed like it might be Imperial became the pillars of 'Somehow'.
Thanks
Now this is a weird pull, but in Gundam Build Fighters one of the main people in the tournement is a pair of Argentinian twin brothers, when fighting the Japanese rival character of the main character, who is also Japanese, they call him a peace spoiled brat who could never understand war. This implies that they were soldiers in the Falklands war and they viewed most others as people drunk on peace. It's something that always comes to mind when people get too comfortable with peace. A weird take away from the most toy commercial of Gundam series but peace spoiled and peace drunk both work
Being warmongers didn't really serve the Argentinians well. They still lost to the supposedly peace drunk British. War is still hell and should be avoided, yet prepared for.
Mon Mothma was really the last person you wanted in charge of the New Republic. She doomed it with military disarmament
The guy shouted Long Live The Empire! Yet he fired his gun afterwards like a flawed character. Lol.
South Africa has this exact problem. Ideology leading policy is never good, even when there are good intentions backing it.
If the Third Republic does not wanted to have a massive military, then let the territories needed to be reduced and the reorganization is required. By governing just the Core Worlds and the Colonies, the Republic will be just fine. As for the rest of the galaxy, let them develop their own polities. After that, the Republic can formed good relations with those who wanted to be friends with the Republic.
Thrawn may not be as politically adept as one would like, but his careful decisions in using resources, both man and machine, is what inspired those to follow him. There is no such thing as a wasteful mission to Thrawn, each action has a purpose, each loss calculated and worthwhile in the end (most of the time). Pair him as leader with the political savyness of a charismatic political leader who can rally the civilian populace behind him, and you have a society of loyal subjects knowing their fates are not wasted without good reason.
Eventually, most if not all the bad military officers or soldiers would be booted as their ineffectiveness showed through and replaced by officers and soldiers willing to follow any order.
Would have been a good thing to see.
Alan, let me put this one to you as a large meta what if: Filoni decides, and gets the go-ahead on, erasing the sequels entirely inside of these current post-ROTJ series, To wit, he creates a Kyle Reese/Future Trunks who comes back through the world between worlds and has to save the New Republic from its wretched downfall. What do they change or try to? Where would they even start, and with whom? I mean, unthinkably, what if Mon Mothma was killed by vengeful Imperial agents right after Endor? Or something more humane? What if the Skywalker Twins had revealed who they were much earlier on, like in Legends, leaving no leak made at a critical time? Grasping at straws here, but after the inevitability of the history revealed in the prequels, watching another avoidable train wreck has gotten to be a bit much.
In Legends the New Republic worked then fell, then became the Free Alliance, & failed then became part of a new empire BUT each time they kept trying something. Here in this “canon” the New Republic never tried nor learned a thing. No surprise they got Death Star 3.0ed
So to pivot to another piece of media for a second - I like that in Fallout New Vegas, the most good for the most people option is the NCR, but only if you put in the work to hold it accountable and influence its decisions for the better through the game. If you’re just going to blindly follow where the NCR will already go on its own, House or Independent are both probably better options depending on whether you put more value on security or liberty.
I think that’s an accurate reflection of the virtues and limitation of representative democracy as represented by the NCR or the New Republic - it doesn’t inherently produce good or more moral or more effective results. Its virtue is that unlike autocracy it gives the public the mechanisms by which it can be course corrected and directed it to producing good results within the designed system - but that requires constant work and democratic engagement.
So princess Leia is basically Winston Churchill
Jj abbrams is the main reason why new republic went soft then got wiped out. Only if ,only if new republic had an action sequence in episode 7. New republic definitely looks better than resistance.
Lol I just made a comment blaming JJ as well. So much wasted potential because he doesn't know how to tell a coherent and logical story.
“…split into different factions, just like the EU…”
Hahaha for a second I thought you were making a Brexit joke.
Whats frustrating to me is that it didn't have to be this way, Not to sound like a Legends loyalist but retreading ground with the Evil tyranny rising against unprepared rebels is boring! Instead, it would've been WAY more interesting and creative to do a competent new republic but this time against a force dissimilar to the empire, say the Yuuzhan Vong or anything different from what we've seen. I'm still holding on for hope though, but won't be surprised if they double down on old ideas unfortunately
Good casting to have Peter Jacobson in as one of the Imperial collaborators.
I thought I'd recognized him. 😁
Honestly I appreciate this characterisation of the New Republic. Honestly I want the Republic to fall into a Balkanisations with numerous different local smaller governments creating numerous independent factions. I just think a divided galaxy is a more interesting narrative position
The most atrocious plan was failing to support local defense fleets. It's not simply the imperials, but the need to protect systems from pirates, gangsters and even mega corps. Without the localised monopoly of violence, can it even be said that the government is the government? Monopolization fi violence goes hand in hand with infrastructure and civil services. You see this in real life. In cities where there's a break down of civil services, infrastructure you see a competitive market of violence.
Until the next sith lord shows up with a fleet and starts taking them over one by one because with all those separate governments, it won't let them put up a united and quick defense. That kind of thing might work for the balkins, but in a universe where ftl travel is real, a force can come in from the unknown region at any time and wipe a small planet or sector out. Applying your flawed ideologies that are far from proven in the real world to a fictional one where supernatural entities exist does not make you intelligent.
The Disney canon new Republic mon mothma , demilitarisation was a terrible idea. Vs her legends policy. And shouldn't she be retired due to health issues caused by an assassination attempt. ( new Canon) . ( empires end ) ?
In legends she had a large military but decentralised, with local sector military under local command with federal funding, and a smaller peacetime military.
Good video bro
As inspirational as mon mothma’s kind, compassionate and peaceful ideals are she ultimately made a colossal mistake by instituting a mass disarmament while there were still a considerable number of imperial remnants active and worse yet granting amnesty to any and all imperials who supposedly wanted it followed by allowing said recipients into positions of power and authority thus allowing the enemy to infiltrate and destroy the new republic from the inside. Simply put those very ideals which made mon mothma a great leader during the galactic civil war would cause more harm than good during the postwar period and would make the new republic a big joke sadly. If she had listened to Lea and her supporters than there’d have been a good chance of eliminating the first order before it could even exist just my personal opinion of course.
The reason that the New Republic is screwed is because JJ Abrams can only do one type of storytelling: take a pre-existing canon and burn it down. The New Republic got a brief wave-away and now much more competent writers and showrunners are stuck having to make a coherent story that ends with the devastating disappointment of the sequel trilogy.
Go play with your mystery box JJ and stop ruining other people's franchises.
Compassion is not synonymous with criminal negligence.