Thrawn with a SSD would had been unstopable, but the idea of him having a standard ISD demonstrates that his strategies works quite well no matter what ship he commands
When there's no enemy to face the conflicts would become Civil Wars, moffs looking to rise above their station, perhaps even a coalition, held together only by constant management and likely assasinations - Palpatine wanted a hands off empire, controlling the biggest toy that nobody could match, if not for the critical and intentional flaw of the first by a subtle traitor, or man eating teddy bears (the local wildlife) rendering the second vulnerable, he'd have had his wish easily. Hell without the Emperors death and his battle meditator abandoning his post to go look for the Emperor they still could have won the second battle easily@@Casey093
Another thing I could note is the cost of maintaining a SSD. Considering that thrawn was in the unknown regions cut off from the now fractured empire he probably wouldn’t have the resources to maintain it
Bingo, I don't know how long fuel lasts in Star Wars, and I don't know how hard it is to refine, but it seems to me like a SSD would be the GAS HOG of the SW universe, the proverbial "boat" of a car like an old Cadillac or something. Not to mention all the food, water, and other necessities a huge crew would need to simply survive. I don't know what the advantages of an SSD are, but if it doesn't have more "air power" like fighter launch capabilities and/or a significant turbolaser capability increase over a regular SD, then its definitely not worth the resources it would take to run one (or several) in the scenario that post-Endor would have caused in terns of the usual supply lines/logistical break down that would have occurred, unless Thrawn could have set up his own supply channels/lines and sources and what not but I doubt even a man of Thrawns abilities could have figured up a consistent, reliable supply source for a fleet of any considerable size, much less more than one fleet, SSD's included or not.
@@lastmanstanding-xp3ub supposedly they gain fuel from taking particles from hyperspace and channeling the energy they produce to go back as well as nuclear fusion via Tibanna Gas or Gas from Gas giants however I think it can survive a few weeks on full fuel though it wouldn't be combat ready
There is actually a passage in the original Thrawn trilogy, where he considers the loss of the Death Star and how in his opinion the only real loss was, that it took the Executor with it.
Thrawn probably regretted the loss of the talented crew and officers.Although not without risk, serving onboard Vader's personal command ship was seen as a way to gain rank within the Imperial Navy. Thus there was a lot of competition to serve in Vader's fleet which attracted the most talented crews.
Thrawn stuck me as a man who would have looked at the SSD and gone something like "The money that went into this could have bought many normal SDs that would be more flexible from a tactical and strategic standpoint..." His only regret at the loss of the DS2 and the Executor was that their loss took out the best and the brightest of the Empire's officers and enlisted men with them, which he would have considered real and actual valuable resources.
@@SoranPryde the one thing he may have valued it for is to be placed in loyal hands and utterly shutdown and rogue forces - more than just a mere destroyer but rather warlords - such as if the northern warlords had emerged during the empires time
I feel like he also wouldn't want one. An Imperial Star Destroyer was already at the max of size for a ship he'd find use for. He preferred smaller more easily moved and maintained ships.
@@CHRF-55457 he won't refuse it definitely, Thrawn isn't one to throw away Ships or chances , neither misuse and 2aste them , He would have it as a Hammer , A wall In reserve or In the Rear most ranks or In a System one jump away , like Pellion did at battle of Orinda with the Dominion or Megador
It jus makes me think of the aftermath of the HMS Hood & Battleship Bismarck Incident in World War II, after it became clear that these huge warships were more of a hinderance, navies took to smaller, more agile ships! Gone were your Man-of-War, your Dreadnaught, your Cruiser, in were Frigates, Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers, the latter now taking up the mantle of Flagship, like the Ark Royal and the Enterprise, the former actaully instrumental in sinking of the Bismarck and the ship of my hometown!
#AskEck you brought it up in this video, so here’s a discussion topic for you: reimagine Heir to the Empire with an SSD in Thrawn’s fleet. What would he do with it? Would the SSD make a difference in Thrawn’s campaign or were his plans too complex for his underlings to follow and therefore be ultimately unsuccessful (especially considering he was stabbed in the back). Another angle to consider is what if Thrawn gets a hold of an SSD in Ashoka season 2 -what do you think would happen?
I'd also imagine that resupplying an SSD would've been a massive pain and slowed down Thrawn's operations significantly, especially in the Unknown Regions. As the famous quote from Napoleon goes, "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.".
People really don't understand how vital logistics are to an Army/Navy/military in general, it's a make or break aspect of warfare, so much so that many of the most famous failed campaigns & military leaders can be pretty much entirely or, at least, partially tied to logistical oversight/arrogance/etcetera. A military falls apart as a cohesive fighting force pretty quickly once food, fuel, munitions, etcetera stop coming on a consistent basis or stop coming at all.
Eck you should do a video of the perfect “police fleet” A fleet that a system would have to protect itself from pirates, smugglers or small enemy fleets You could have multiple episodes one for each faction from the Republic to the New Republic
1 Rendili Dreadnaught - flagship - enough troops to board any pirate ship, its missiles can engage foes outside its vision, and its poor speed is largely irrelevant for defensive duties. 2 Tartans - pursuit ship - fast enough to catch any capital ship, and its ion cannons can disable runaways to allow for boarding. 1 Ton-Falk - fleet carrier - starfighters will catch whatever the Tartans can't. 4 Carracks - gunship - provide defensive cover for the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk. 2 Nebulon-Bs - sensor - detects hostile ships from afar and helps coordinate the fleet. 6 Raiders - patrol - does what it says on the tin, boring but necessary. During the latter days of the Empire, used Victories and Venators would likely have been cheap enough to replace the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk in system defence forces.
I don't think Thrawn would want a SSD to be his flagship. A ISD is power, and enough agility that he would prefer to be on the Chimera. However Thrawn would find use of a SSD in his fleet tactics. Even if it was such a inelegant, overpowered vessel.
hey eck, just wanted to tell you how much i appreciate your chanel. I remember days i stayed home from school and just watched your videos all day! Your a great creater and i wish you a great 2024, cheers!
Super Star Destroyer: "You see, you're not dealing with the average Star Destroyer anymore." Rebel Alliance: "We feel like we've been here before. Have we been here before?"
I love this topic. Only you Empire at War players understand the math of Star Wars dreadnoughts. A battleship twelve times the length and twenty times the tonnage of its opponents would be conventionally unstoppable but also an absolute bullseye, especially in a setting where swarms single-seat fighters really can overwhelm a large ship. It happened in real life to the Bismarck and Yamato.
The biplane bombers that attacked the Bismarck have a lot of parallels to the Y-wing starfighter. Both were rather old and considered outdated, yet still proved effective in battle against more modern enemy ships.
I suspect they would have been weaker overall. Yeah, there's more places to hide their assets, but they need a constant supply of disgruntled Imperial citizens joining up or donating supplies and equipment to keep going. They also need to be close enough to the Empire to harass it, or they just become impotent and ignorable.
I would see thrawn using it as a "fleet in being", basically a way to tie down enemy forces where they always had to protect against the threat of an SSD, preventing them from responding quickly to attacks elsewhere and tying up resources (a whole fleet would be needed to counter the SSD theoretically, disregarding rogue squadron shenanigans). He might first use it as a surprise, and then a way to pin down enemy forces and keep them from countering his attacks.
I like it. Battleship Tirpitz and Bismarck terrified the allied powers so much that every single strategic move they considered was influenced by the very fact that they existed. Entire fleets were tied up in harbor just because it was possible Bismarck or Tirpitz could be involved.
Interesting concept for the star wars universe but i think that an SSD is just too massive for an idea like that. I know star wars doesnt usually talk about that but imagine the amount of maintenance and food it takes for the crew just to have this 17km long ship annoy some light rebel forces. The Bismarck can be compared to a normal ISD, which would still be difficult to get rid off in the early ages of the rebellion.
Imagine if Thrawn legit did have an SSD ready for a decisive battle's turnaround. He would've called it in after the Smugglers' attack, but if I remember correctly, the Wayland report and subsequent assassination happened immediately afterwards, so he was distracted. Also, for why Thrawn didn't use one if you want to go with normal play, he probably only had enough men during The Last Command to even properly man it. Because another thing, SSDs are a logistical nightmare. You also need food and parts too for it, and the Empire seemed to be on the backfoot before Thrawn took command. Thrawn was doing more hit and run and being impossible to track. Cannibalizing an SSD could be more useful to keep smaller ships running so as to be everywhere over one single one that would get tracked and attacked at once, and SSDs are notably taken out by almost nothing in Legends a lot beforehand. You also add the whole, "Thrawn is doing all this without even a battlecruiser, how much can we actually hold up against this guy?" going into the fear campaign he did as well.
i can see Thrawn having a Super Star Destroyer that's on the smaller side but faster than its size implies, like the Bellator. interesting fact: the Chiss *are* human, they're skin and eye color started changing at some point due to the planet they settled on. as a result, they got the mixed bag of the Andorian's blue skin, (from Star Trek, minus the antennas) and red eyes of the Nocturneans, (Warhammer 40k) which is also the homeworld of the Salamanders. Vulkan lives!
@@TY-km8hjA Belator or an updated Mandator would've had several benefits. Both are smaller and likely more maneuverable in sublight while be a lot more powerful than a standard ISD. And Politically either could've been passed off as an insult to Thrawn while actually being a reward.
@martyf3698 u summed up it up perfectly, especially the political aspect. The other grand admirals probs would laughe dandy scoffed like Danetta Pitta but Thrawn would just see it as a W
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
He didn’t want one. Thrawn didn’t believe in super weapons hence why he didn’t like the death star. Now if they had some of his tie defenders on it Im sure he wouldn’t mind. They would have made a difference in that last battle.
They would have made a difference in ANY battle involving "air' power, BUT they wouldn't have allowed Palpatine to dissolve the Imperial Senate and absorb its, at that point, limited power into his sole control like the Death Star did, and as we all know, ole Sheevy wanted absolute, unfettered and unquestionable authority & power more than anything else.
Thrawn had nothing to do with TIE Defenders, hes actually a big part of why they were never used on a wider scale. It was Grand Admiral Zaarin who oversaw their development
…the algorithm hadn’t shown me one of your videos in years (literally)… …this video was awesome… ..thank you for making me excited about a Star Wars story in years as well…
It would be cool if the canon reason was that Thrawn had some well thought out, highly esoteric reason to eschew one like "the SSD may seem superior to the ISD in every aspect but when it's caught between 4 gravity wells it is a veritable death trap; one potentially catastrophic to the fleet's survival if its commander in chief were to choose it as his residence."
While I support that the main reason was that Thrawn was a secret Grand Admiral, and given more easily concealed resources as a result, I don't think one can dismiss the fact that Thrawn didn't like unwieldly superweapons and super-capital sized ships, as was done in the beginning of this video. Yes, true, the vessels were already built, and if one was offered to him with no other alternative, he definitely would take it. But that's the key part....no alternative. Put simply, if he was offered a SSD vs 12 more standard ISDs, I believe he would take the latter every single time. Unless he had some very special, very specific, one-off use for such a ship. For every SSD the Empire had, it also had something to the tune of 500+ ISDs or VSDs. Thrawn would easily have picked 12 over 1 SSD but in truth what he may have been given in lieu of a SSD could have been dozens or even hundreds of 'regular' SDs. I don't think anyone can argue with that number of SDs versus a SSD. Legends canon establish how Star Destroyers in general are not the most practical of ships too, being highly capital and manpower intensive. There was still merit to ships the size of ISDs, but the return on resources got worse the more you approached something the size of a SSD. Not a single Executor/Super class SD was appreciated for their logistical return. Every single one of them was used in symbolic and limited decisive roles in the service of any faction. Even Zsinj saw his beloved Iron Fist more as a symbol of his military might rather than a particularly practical weapon...much of his then empire was dedicated to simply supplying the ship itself, in a sign of his fatally impractical vainglory and obsession withb the ship. For a man like Thrawn who intends to secure large parts of the Galaxy and establish order, rather than carve out some small little petty empire for himself where power can be concentrated in a few ships and people, the choice is obvious.
I'd still think Thrawn would vastly prefer a more flexible ship over a completely vulnerable and overly expensive target. Yeah, he would USE it if he had to, but that's like giving him the Death Star or some other brain-dead Imperial weapon of fear rather than of actual utility.
#AskEck Okay, if Thrawn isn't going to get an SSD (or other Dreadnought sized warship) from the Emperor for the reasons you described but lets say the Emperor talks to Thrawn one day and says "name one OTHER ship in the fleet and it is yours my loyal servant." What is the one single ship Thrawn would have asked for (presumably that he didn't have already, I guess he could always ask for yet another ISD but that's not fun). I have an idea what it would be but I don't want to bias you; but lets just say its initials confusingly happened to be ISD.
I feel like Thrawn would want some kind of factory ship, like his own personal Altor tender to support extended operations abroad. Maybe modify it to produce good fighters for his command and subordinates. That's if we're talking a singular ship.
@@apathymanthemundane4165 Yea, a factory ship would be great both when he's out taming the Unknown Regions then after he gets back and finds the Empire in shambles (although he wouldn't know the ship would be useful for that at the time). Although I don't know about it being able to produce "good" fighters, by that I take it to mean fighters that aren't standard Imperial designs. Doubtful they'd be able to cook those up on their own, even if they did they aren't going to match what Raith Sienar and his design teams cook up in terms of efficiency. At best they'd be able to turn out TIEs modified with things like shield generators or missiles at the expense of the features that make a TIE effective. They might be able to build Starwings and Skipray Blastboats at really low production rates (although it might be more efficient just to put in a requisition for them), I doubt TIE/Ds and TIE/ADs are coming off a factory ship due to the complexity unless maybe they stripped out the hyperdrives; since I doubt such small hyperdrives are easy to build and frankly a TIE/D without one would still be a damn good fighter.
A Lucrehulk or Venator, something that can carry a ton of troops and/or fighters. Or maybe a World Devastator if that was invented and Thrawn knew about it, more due to the fact that it's essentially a mini Star Forge than anything.
As far as I can tell, every version of thrawn has shown a disdain or indifference at least to to anything larger than a Star Destroyer. A SSD can NEVER operate without significant escort. In an emergency, an SD can Also after the Clone Wars, there wasn’t really anything that could challenge an SD that an SSD could better. So you sink extremely large amounts of time, energy and resources into 1 thing, as opposed to 3-5 things for the same cost (at minimum) that can thus be deployed elsewhere. This does not factor in the extreme maintenance costs of the SD alone. I stagger to imagine the costs of an SSD. The only theoretical advantage an SSD could possibly offer over a SD for Thrawn is more computer capacity to coordinate strategic operations. But I feel that Thrawn found the facilities of the Chimera sufficient for that
Completely agree. Thrawn in HTTE relied on hit and run tactics like the rebels used against the Empire during the GCW period, and using an SSD would've been a waste of resources, much needed men (before he got Weyland set up) and would've put him on the NR's radar much faster. I could see him using one to draw the NR's attention away from his main objective, but even then a larger than normal fleet would've accomplished that as well.
I think Thrawn would object to having SSD on two accounts: logistics burden in the UR, and putting too many eggs in one basket. Look at what loss of Executor did at Endor.
If we are talking the REAL Thrawn, it was because he was banished as a CAPTAIN and was granted the rank of Admiral while on the Rim and thus not of rank for an SSD. If we are talking about Disney's Thrawn, who gives a fuck. The guy was nerfed to death to prop up a shitty live action Ahsoka and a horrible Rebels show.
If you really think about it... A huge advantage of a SSD is it's size imagine the factory's and research and development center's you could fit on it. For crew you could replace most of them with droids. With the Tie Advance and defender it could hull around hundreds. And if you put in a factory it could produce it's own. Then enemy fighters would be out numberd and out teched. With it's shielding and fire power it could take down the most important ship of an enemy fleet. Thrawn if he had a SSD could turn it into a mobile bass of operations although it is slow it's still faster than a planet and tactically, it is an unmatched opponent give it an escort fleet and an upgraded point defense along with Thrawn's Tie fighters and his tactics and an opponent wouldn't stand a chance.
#AskEck Would love for you to return to ship battles and do a breakdown of the Covenant CAS assault Carrier vs Resurgent class star destroyers If you think that match is unfair then perhaps a CAS vs 2 (or 3) ISD’s would be interesting too.
(eckharts saying the Executor is the most powerful ship) Eclipse: Am I a JOKE to you?! Death Star: Pipe down, you are just a fat executor with an axial pea shooter! And don't even start with that "calling me a station" crap. I have engines and move. I am a ship too.
I once saw something about how thrawn was givin command of the Vengeance (a super star destroyer) but the only evedeince that I found confurming that was this video (minute 7:45) th-cam.com/video/2hSZ2xWEvxI/w-d-xo.html
I think the main reasons why Thrawn wouldn't want a SSD is because they're slow, big, probably have low amounts of AA guns, and because it would be a main target for the New Republic/Rebels. If Thrawn did have one, it would be very likely he would use it as a distraction and command from another Star Destroyer, just like already said in the video. Only if Thrawn was able to have a modified version of the SSD, then it could be different. .Manioverment of the Malevolence .A large amount of AA guns Corvettes and other small vessels have .A lot of fighters and bombers being carried aboard it .A Superweapon installed into it, such as the Malevolence's super ion cannons or the Eclipse's large planetary-destroying/ship laser This would make the SSD a lot better for Thrawn and his Imperial Remnants fleet at Peridia.
Super Star destroyers are required to compensate for somthing lacking Thrawn Is the equal to a Super Star destroyer ..... I'd rather face a Super Star destroyer than Thrawn in a Star fighter or corvette
Why Star Wars franchise uses the term "navy" if there's no water in space? Why not fleet? Isn't it dumb? - it's actually dumb, that was just a rhetoric question.
Me as well, id like to see a video/videos of the different types of fuel and what they're each used for, Rhydonium, Tibanna, Klouzon I think its called, etcetera.
#AskEck In Legends after Endor, what was life like as or under an Imperial Warlord. How did they rule their territories, maintain the economy, build armies and ships, pay for those armies and ships. I ask for the small Warlords that controlled 1-3 planets but you could talk about the bigger ones like the Pentastar Alignment or Zsinj too.
Logistics. He's already out in the Unknown Regions far from the main Imperial supply chains and lines of communications. Even if he's working to establish bases and supply depots out there, imagine trying to keep an SSD properly supplied in what was essentially the middle of nowhere (Chiss Ascendancy notwithstanding). Just think about the challenges involved in doing so. And keeping the SSD properly supplied would also be taking supplies and equipment away from Thrawn's task of establishing those aforementioned bases.
I agree, if it was being built he would have disapproved but if already built he would have found a use for it. I would use it as a mobile base rather than a front line ship. Also would have tried to get more of the tie defenders for my pilots.
I've been working on a fanfiction series that beefs up the Empire of the Hand (making it stronger and more active, instead of fading away after Thrawn's death and his clone's in Legends - i.e. other authors not named Timothy Zahn completely forgetting about it). Anyway, my Empire of the Hand constructs a new type of Super Star Destroyer to use as its flag ship against the Yuuzhan Vong, and it doubles as a mobile repair station for other capital ships: *Renaissance-class Super Star Destroyer* (about 12 km long) Built: Kuat Drive Yard’s Spiral Shipyards, Nirauan system. Officially finished construction in 21 ABY, but Admiral Parck would occasionally make use of its incomplete state before then. The Renaissance class is a shorter, wider, heavier-set, ship than the more familiar Executor-class SSDs from the old Galactic Empire, taking several design features from the prototype Eclipse class, including integrated interdiction technology, a complement of over 400 TIE Defender fighters, and a superlaser capable of cracking a planetary crust (or a Yuuzhan Vong world ship). Like other Empire of the Hand designs, the Renaissance-class’ bridge is not located in an exposed tower, but rather deep inside the ship, with cameras and a powerful sensor suite compensating for the lack of viewports. Borrowing from Mon Calamari designs, the Renaissance-class also utilizes overlapping shield technology. As well as standard Imperial weaponry like turbolasers, tractor beams and ion cannons, the Renaissance -class also utilizes Chiss Ascendency weaponry such as Plasma ball launchers and breacher missiles. The main difference from the earlier class (and, the “selling point” that convinced then-Grand Moff Xelarra to sign off on its creation) is the ability of the Renaissance-class to carry up to five Imperial or Spiral- class Star Destroyers on the hull itself, with the smaller (but still capital sized) ships docking on five triangular recesses on the main hull, 3 on top of the superstructure, two below. The Renaissance-class can thus act as a mobile repair station as well as the command ship. Its main hanger bay can internally carry ships up to 300 m in length (i.e. the size of an Arquitens-class light cruiser or an Explorer-class research/scout vessel). The Renaissance also has integrated Interdictor technology, and is equipped with several cloaking devices (necessary because of the ship’s size). These two systems cannot normally be used at the same time, though Grand Admiral Thrawn remembers a few tricks learned earlier in his career to get around this limitation. As cloaking devices are double-blind - they protect a ship from detection, but said ship also cannot see outside of it when activated through conventional means, the cloak is most effectively used with the cooperation of an Imperial Knight, who can use the Force to sense outside the cloak. However, with proper timing and practice the cloaks can be used without the assistance of Force-users. As the Empire of the Hand did not sign the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty, they are not prohibited from using cloaking devices. Known vessels in the class: SSD Renaissance CO: Fleet Admiral Voss Parck (19-28 ABY), Grand Admiral Thrawn (28 ABY +) XO: Commodore Eli Vanto (28 ABY+) Starfighter commander: Colonel Jagged Fel (28 ABY +) Flagship of the Navy of the Hand. Displays the same Paccosh signil as the ISD Chimaera on its hull. Commissioned by Fleet Admiral Parck, in anticipation of Grand Admiral Thrawn’s rumoured return in 19 ABY. Thrawn (actually his clone, known as ‘Raw’nuru’ until he was ready to retake the mantle of Grand Admiral) did not take command until the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, after the Evacuation of Lysatra.
I’ve often seen it said that Thrawn wouldn’t want an SSD, I suspect based on a scene from the first of the new novels where he explains to Eli Vanto that ISD sized vessels and accompanying escorts are the most efficient forms of projected naval power. I’ve made the point before though, not unlike Eck, that Thrawn is not the type to waste an available resource. Indeed a large part of his characterisation is the clever use of what he has available. He usually doesn’t have the biggest, the best, or the most numerous, but he does have the genius to use what he has to win anyway.
I agree just because he opposed the construction of said ship he would not oppose using it if it were put in front of him. And yea he would have used it as a base of opp in the unknown. Im honestly shocked he wasn't given the first one off the line to then be sent out into the unknown to do his thing. DUH!
6:40 You can have an SSD hid in a nebula while you have SD, or Victories running around scouting and causing hell or not all while giving you a base of operations to rebuild what you have lost. The SSD is a mini manufacturing facility. VITAL!
The Thrawn series of books would have been a little different if he had one but he wrecked the New Republic without it. the Chimaera was scary enough with him in command.
Thrawn with an Executor would more than likely one of two ways. 1: He uses it to distract the NR while running around with the Chrimera. 2: He uses it as a sledge hammer bringing it in to stomp NR fleets already engaged or as a Spearhead
I see if he wanted his own SSD. Then he would take advantage and have designed one like no other!! One capable of normal SSD tasks but also able to have a fleet of SD dock with the ship as well as have a ship building bay capable of building ships from fighter size up to SD.
If Thrawn had a SSD, I think he would have kept it hidden most of the time. A SSD in Chiss space would have alienated him from any alliance with them. I could see him use it for covert attacks against the Vagarri or Vong probes, but he would use it more as a hidden base. In HTTE, he would use it to guard Mt. Tantiss or as a staging platform to refit the Katana Fleet. At most, he would jump in and out of different sectors to lead the New Republic Navy on a distracting chase while hitting his real targets.
I think Thrawn would also get a lot of use out of a SSD by using it as a "fleet in being." This is basically a strategy where fleets (or even large ships) are kept in friendly ports with the intention of tying down enemy forces to guard or counter it. He could station the SSD somewhere, wait for the New Republic to redeploy their forces in systems near it, and launch a diversionary attack with great effect.
#AskEck Did grand admiral thrawn know of the fall of the empire? If so how? He was completely exiled in Star Wars cannon and missed a majority of major events in the galactic civil war.
I would imagine he would have been able, through the Great Mothers, to know the "jist" of the main big events like the Emperors death and/or Vaders as well, and id say even with only that knowledge, he would have been able to deduce that the likelihood of the Empire staying cohesive without them and their nearly unfathomable powers the military command structure would have very likely collapsed and the civilian/non-military aspects of imperial infrastructure along with it.
Imagine instead of the Death Star they focused more on Super Star Destroyers for EVERY Admiral/Grand Moff and more ISD2s for a more flexible navy...No DS1/2 and just a galaxy spanning Navy.
I think he would use it like an aircraft carrier/C&C ship for directing operations and not necessarily being on board .Thanks Bud, great work as always.
Didn't Thrawn DISDAIN SSD's and super weapons? He liked the tactical flexibility of smaller ships of the line mixed with Impstar Deuces and Vic's. I haven't watched your video yet, about to now.
You think that ship is only a resource waste while _building_ it? This thing would have been a logistics drain on his entire operation. Just on crew expenses it was worth *8* ISD! Those can be in 8 places, the SSD is in one. And is trivially easy to keep track off. And where others would fail with an SSD, he could win with 4 ISDs. They were pure status symbols and protection against mutiny by subordinate ship capstains. Militarily they did less then the same crew complement or tonnage of ISDs. "Do you have any idea how much power I would have to _give up_ to become president?" - Lex Luthor
The excuator class is just one type of super star destroyer,,many others where " invented, "...In the book series Trawn has a personal body guards of aliens,he even had certain animals that blocked the force,,,eventually he died by he's own guards in the books at least...
The greater Human Body Politic in the Star Wars Imperial Military are almost as xenophobic as their Imperium counterparts in the Warhammer 40k universe
Echarts Ladder, the other issue is that yeah Grand Admerial Thrawn would have used whatever resources handed to him, but Thrawns own personal prerences would have also played a role. Which personally, i tend to agree. There is way too much focus on two really bad points, 1: Ever larger ships. 2: way too many fighters compared to expense. I would have prefered a much better designed millitary. Lighter, Better armed, faster fleets. Ships to Blockcade hyperspace routes. Pull Rebel ships out of hyperspace, and into Emp fields. I could sit post just outside Emp fields, and paper shred the rebel fleets.
For some reason i just picture thrawn's SSD having a sick paint job and pulling handbrake turns/drifting maneuvers that would make the cast of fast and the furious gasp 🤣🤣
Thrawn is good enough to not NEED a SSD, but if he had one, oh boy! Plus Palpatine knew Thrawn would never truly be 100% loyal to the empire. He would never betray the empire, but he would keep secrets if it protected the Chiss. That’s the only reason Thrawn joined the empire, to gain an ally to help the Chiss when a serious threat came
0:54 Thrawn would have never accepted command of a SSD. That whole concept, of 'super-large ships', was repulsive to him. Ships of that size would be slow, and would need to maintain defences across the entirety of the vessel, whilst having multiple smaller vessels striking at will...? That is true, throughout history, and Thrawn knew it, which is why he opposed the concept.
#AskEck about an hour into episode IX, when the falcon is rescuing Rey from an apparently undefended hangar, Poe blasts the engines to knock down the stormtroopers surrounding her, but somehow the Falcon doesn’t move forward. How and why can the Falcon do this? Tangentially related to this, shouldn’t everyone subjected to the exhaust plume be burned or irradiated or something? How dangerous are Star Wars engines? If Crosshair’s helmet had fit better would he have been fine?
Keep in mind that the Executor Super Star Destroyers were made to punch as much as a dozen of Star Destroyers while being one massive dreadnought. Logistics are a pain. You need over 275k persons to make run, almost 2k gunners and even if it can do hyperspace travel, Enemies will throw everything they have to disable or destroy it. It have among it's flaws the fact that the belly of the SSD had no weapons, you could just circle under one and force the others Imperial warship to stop firing unless they can hit you with missing or hitting the SSD. Ressources were also a pain. To prevent an easily destroyed SSD, there was at least 6 ISD and a few more warships escorting it, thus putting a massive target on itself.
Palpatine had to nerf Thrawn fr, if he had one he’d be too elite
He’s so elite that even StarWars writers had to nerf him several times, it’s still not enough 😱
He didn't NEED a super to compensate for weaknesses, unlike Vader.
Frfr lol
I concur...
On god
Thrawn with a SSD would had been unstopable, but the idea of him having a standard ISD demonstrates that his strategies works quite well no matter what ship he commands
If they had built a large ISD fleet carrying Tie Defenders instead of building two Death Stars, the republic would have been finished soon. o.O
When there's no enemy to face the conflicts would become Civil Wars, moffs looking to rise above their station, perhaps even a coalition, held together only by constant management and likely assasinations - Palpatine wanted a hands off empire, controlling the biggest toy that nobody could match, if not for the critical and intentional flaw of the first by a subtle traitor, or man eating teddy bears (the local wildlife) rendering the second vulnerable, he'd have had his wish easily. Hell without the Emperors death and his battle meditator abandoning his post to go look for the Emperor they still could have won the second battle easily@@Casey093
@@Casey093 Honestly tho, literally all the Rebels could do was run away from a tie defender.
I think we can all agree that whatever he would have done with a SSD, it would have been *artistically* done.
Yeah, it would be basically as easy as a brush stroke.
Imagine an SSD with Chimeras design or something underneath on the belly
Another thing I could note is the cost of maintaining a SSD. Considering that thrawn was in the unknown regions cut off from the now fractured empire he probably wouldn’t have the resources to maintain it
Bingo, I don't know how long fuel lasts in Star Wars, and I don't know how hard it is to refine, but it seems to me like a SSD would be the GAS HOG of the SW universe, the proverbial "boat" of a car like an old Cadillac or something. Not to mention all the food, water, and other necessities a huge crew would need to simply survive. I don't know what the advantages of an SSD are, but if it doesn't have more "air power" like fighter launch capabilities and/or a significant turbolaser capability increase over a regular SD, then its definitely not worth the resources it would take to run one (or several) in the scenario that post-Endor would have caused in terns of the usual supply lines/logistical break down that would have occurred, unless Thrawn could have set up his own supply channels/lines and sources and what not but I doubt even a man of Thrawns abilities could have figured up a consistent, reliable supply source for a fleet of any considerable size, much less more than one fleet, SSD's included or not.
@@lastmanstanding-xp3ub supposedly they gain fuel from taking particles from hyperspace and channeling the energy they produce to go back as well as nuclear fusion via Tibanna Gas or Gas from Gas giants however I think it can survive a few weeks on full fuel though it wouldn't be combat ready
There is actually a passage in the original Thrawn trilogy, where he considers the loss of the Death Star and how in his opinion the only real loss was, that it took the Executor with it.
Thrawn probably regretted the loss of the talented crew and officers.Although not without risk, serving onboard Vader's personal command ship was seen as a way to gain rank within the Imperial Navy. Thus there was a lot of competition to serve in Vader's fleet which attracted the most talented crews.
SSD's are such beautiful ships. It's a shame every time one gets lost.
Thrawn stuck me as a man who would have looked at the SSD and gone something like
"The money that went into this could have bought many normal SDs that would be more flexible from a tactical and strategic standpoint..."
His only regret at the loss of the DS2 and the Executor was that their loss took out the best and the brightest of the Empire's officers and enlisted men with them, which he would have considered real and actual valuable resources.
That's actually from Pellaeon's point of view, not Thrawn's.
@@SoranPryde the one thing he may have valued it for is to be placed in loyal hands and utterly shutdown and rogue forces - more than just a mere destroyer but rather warlords - such as if the northern warlords had emerged during the empires time
I feel like he also wouldn't want one. An Imperial Star Destroyer was already at the max of size for a ship he'd find use for. He preferred smaller more easily moved and maintained ships.
He's have it as his back up one jump away
I think he would have turned it into a logistic ship and added a lot of Star destroyer docks for resupply.
But even he would not refuse such an offer if its already been built.
@@CHRF-55457 he won't refuse it definitely, Thrawn isn't one to throw away Ships or chances , neither misuse and 2aste them , He would have it as a Hammer , A wall In reserve or In the Rear most ranks or In a System one jump away , like Pellion did at battle of Orinda with the Dominion or Megador
It jus makes me think of the aftermath of the HMS Hood & Battleship Bismarck Incident in World War II, after it became clear that these huge warships were more of a hinderance, navies took to smaller, more agile ships! Gone were your Man-of-War, your Dreadnaught, your Cruiser, in were Frigates, Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers, the latter now taking up the mantle of Flagship, like the Ark Royal and the Enterprise, the former actaully instrumental in sinking of the Bismarck and the ship of my hometown!
#AskEck you brought it up in this video, so here’s a discussion topic for you: reimagine Heir to the Empire with an SSD in Thrawn’s fleet. What would he do with it? Would the SSD make a difference in Thrawn’s campaign or were his plans too complex for his underlings to follow and therefore be ultimately unsuccessful (especially considering he was stabbed in the back).
Another angle to consider is what if Thrawn gets a hold of an SSD in Ashoka season 2 -what do you think would happen?
The Ashoka Thrawn would probably mistake it for a dorito and eat it.
Pelleon would have one in reserve just for him.
I'd also imagine that resupplying an SSD would've been a massive pain and slowed down Thrawn's operations significantly, especially in the Unknown Regions. As the famous quote from Napoleon goes, "Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.".
People really don't understand how vital logistics are to an Army/Navy/military in general, it's a make or break aspect of warfare, so much so that many of the most famous failed campaigns & military leaders can be pretty much entirely or, at least, partially tied to logistical oversight/arrogance/etcetera. A military falls apart as a cohesive fighting force pretty quickly once food, fuel, munitions, etcetera stop coming on a consistent basis or stop coming at all.
I thought that was sun tzu?
Eck you should do a video of the perfect “police fleet”
A fleet that a system would have to protect itself from pirates, smugglers or small enemy fleets
You could have multiple episodes one for each faction from the Republic to the New Republic
1 Rendili Dreadnaught - flagship - enough troops to board any pirate ship, its missiles can engage foes outside its vision, and its poor speed is largely irrelevant for defensive duties.
2 Tartans - pursuit ship - fast enough to catch any capital ship, and its ion cannons can disable runaways to allow for boarding.
1 Ton-Falk - fleet carrier - starfighters will catch whatever the Tartans can't.
4 Carracks - gunship - provide defensive cover for the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk.
2 Nebulon-Bs - sensor - detects hostile ships from afar and helps coordinate the fleet.
6 Raiders - patrol - does what it says on the tin, boring but necessary.
During the latter days of the Empire, used Victories and Venators would likely have been cheap enough to replace the Dreadnaught and Ton-Falk in system defence forces.
I don't think Thrawn would want a SSD to be his flagship. A ISD is power, and enough agility that he would prefer to be on the Chimera. However Thrawn would find use of a SSD in his fleet tactics. Even if it was such a inelegant, overpowered vessel.
Back up force , one system jump away , in case plan F0cks up badly .... like a Jedi showing up or Assasin killing the Artist
hey eck, just wanted to tell you how much i appreciate your chanel. I remember days i stayed home from school and just watched your videos all day! Your a great creater and i wish you a great 2024, cheers!
Creator
"Can't lose the battle if you get assassinated before it's over."
-Sun Tzu Thrawn
Super Star Destroyer: "You see, you're not dealing with the average Star Destroyer anymore."
Rebel Alliance: "We feel like we've been here before. Have we been here before?"
“I understood that reference.” - Goku probably
Does the SSD come with a Muffin Button?
There is no Muffin button!@@bobs1422
I wanna be a super star destroyer! I wanna! I wanna! I wanna!
SSD: "I AM A SUPER STAR DESTROYER!!!"
RA: "Oh my Republic, this is happening again!"
I love this topic. Only you Empire at War players understand the math of Star Wars dreadnoughts. A battleship twelve times the length and twenty times the tonnage of its opponents would be conventionally unstoppable but also an absolute bullseye, especially in a setting where swarms single-seat fighters really can overwhelm a large ship. It happened in real life to the Bismarck and Yamato.
The biplane bombers that attacked the Bismarck have a lot of parallels to the Y-wing starfighter. Both were rather old and considered outdated, yet still proved effective in battle against more modern enemy ships.
@@InventorZahran This
#AskEck How much stronger would the Rebellion be if they set up in the unknown regions?
They did to an extent...but likely they would have been destroyed by the Chiss.
@@justinlast2lastharder749Maybe the Rebels would have formed an alliance with the Chiss.
@@STSWB5SG1FAN the Chiss probably would’ve leaned towards the empire over the RA
I suspect they would have been weaker overall. Yeah, there's more places to hide their assets, but they need a constant supply of disgruntled Imperial citizens joining up or donating supplies and equipment to keep going. They also need to be close enough to the Empire to harass it, or they just become impotent and ignorable.
@@michaelramon2411 this. Not to mention the additional threats in that area, like Nuso Esva
I would see thrawn using it as a "fleet in being", basically a way to tie down enemy forces where they always had to protect against the threat of an SSD, preventing them from responding quickly to attacks elsewhere and tying up resources (a whole fleet would be needed to counter the SSD theoretically, disregarding rogue squadron shenanigans). He might first use it as a surprise, and then a way to pin down enemy forces and keep them from countering his attacks.
I like it. Battleship Tirpitz and Bismarck terrified the allied powers so much that every single strategic move they considered was influenced by the very fact that they existed. Entire fleets were tied up in harbor just because it was possible Bismarck or Tirpitz could be involved.
@@toospooky051 tirpitz and Bismarck were part of where I got the idea from.
Interesting concept for the star wars universe but i think that an SSD is just too massive for an idea like that. I know star wars doesnt usually talk about that but imagine the amount of maintenance and food it takes for the crew just to have this 17km long ship annoy some light rebel forces.
The Bismarck can be compared to a normal ISD, which would still be difficult to get rid off in the early ages of the rebellion.
Imagine if Thrawn legit did have an SSD ready for a decisive battle's turnaround. He would've called it in after the Smugglers' attack, but if I remember correctly, the Wayland report and subsequent assassination happened immediately afterwards, so he was distracted.
Also, for why Thrawn didn't use one if you want to go with normal play, he probably only had enough men during The Last Command to even properly man it. Because another thing, SSDs are a logistical nightmare. You also need food and parts too for it, and the Empire seemed to be on the backfoot before Thrawn took command. Thrawn was doing more hit and run and being impossible to track. Cannibalizing an SSD could be more useful to keep smaller ships running so as to be everywhere over one single one that would get tracked and attacked at once, and SSDs are notably taken out by almost nothing in Legends a lot beforehand. You also add the whole, "Thrawn is doing all this without even a battlecruiser, how much can we actually hold up against this guy?" going into the fear campaign he did as well.
i can see Thrawn having a Super Star Destroyer that's on the smaller side but faster than its size implies, like the Bellator.
interesting fact: the Chiss *are* human, they're skin and eye color started changing at some point due to the planet they settled on.
as a result, they got the mixed bag of the Andorian's blue skin, (from Star Trek, minus the antennas) and red eyes of the Nocturneans, (Warhammer 40k) which is also the homeworld of the Salamanders.
Vulkan lives!
A Ballator or even an updated mandator would fit him perfectly
In legends there was a executor prototype it was 8 km short than the standard executor class
@@TY-km8hjA Belator or an updated Mandator would've had several benefits. Both are smaller and likely more maneuverable in sublight while be a lot more powerful than a standard ISD. And Politically either could've been passed off as an insult to Thrawn while actually being a reward.
@martyf3698 u summed up it up perfectly, especially the political aspect. The other grand admirals probs would laughe dandy scoffed like Danetta Pitta but Thrawn would just see it as a W
#AskEck: What are your thoughts on Operation Domino and how the Galactic Civil War would've gone if it was successful? I wish we could've gotten more lore about the "Secession Worlds" mentioned in The Essential Guide to Warfare that the Empire crushed early on.
Operation domino? No one out pizzas the huts!
*_Thrawn doesn't need to compensate_*
He didn’t want one. Thrawn didn’t believe in super weapons hence why he didn’t like the death star. Now if they had some of his tie defenders on it Im sure he wouldn’t mind. They would have made a difference in that last battle.
They would have made a difference in ANY battle involving "air' power, BUT they wouldn't have allowed Palpatine to dissolve the Imperial Senate and absorb its, at that point, limited power into his sole control like the Death Star did, and as we all know, ole Sheevy wanted absolute, unfettered and unquestionable authority & power more than anything else.
Thrawn had nothing to do with TIE Defenders, hes actually a big part of why they were never used on a wider scale. It was Grand Admiral Zaarin who oversaw their development
Palpatine: You are in this navy, but we do not guarant you a SSD
Thrawn: This is outrageous, it's unfair
…the algorithm hadn’t shown me one of your videos in years (literally)…
…this video was awesome…
..thank you for making me excited about a Star Wars story in years as well…
It would be cool if the canon reason was that Thrawn had some well thought out, highly esoteric reason to eschew one like "the SSD may seem superior to the ISD in every aspect but when it's caught between 4 gravity wells it is a veritable death trap; one potentially catastrophic to the fleet's survival if its commander in chief were to choose it as his residence."
Bruh the bots are faster than real people
While I support that the main reason was that Thrawn was a secret Grand Admiral, and given more easily concealed resources as a result, I don't think one can dismiss the fact that Thrawn didn't like unwieldly superweapons and super-capital sized ships, as was done in the beginning of this video. Yes, true, the vessels were already built, and if one was offered to him with no other alternative, he definitely would take it. But that's the key part....no alternative. Put simply, if he was offered a SSD vs 12 more standard ISDs, I believe he would take the latter every single time. Unless he had some very special, very specific, one-off use for such a ship. For every SSD the Empire had, it also had something to the tune of 500+ ISDs or VSDs. Thrawn would easily have picked 12 over 1 SSD but in truth what he may have been given in lieu of a SSD could have been dozens or even hundreds of 'regular' SDs. I don't think anyone can argue with that number of SDs versus a SSD.
Legends canon establish how Star Destroyers in general are not the most practical of ships too, being highly capital and manpower intensive. There was still merit to ships the size of ISDs, but the return on resources got worse the more you approached something the size of a SSD. Not a single Executor/Super class SD was appreciated for their logistical return. Every single one of them was used in symbolic and limited decisive roles in the service of any faction. Even Zsinj saw his beloved Iron Fist more as a symbol of his military might rather than a particularly practical weapon...much of his then empire was dedicated to simply supplying the ship itself, in a sign of his fatally impractical vainglory and obsession withb the ship. For a man like Thrawn who intends to secure large parts of the Galaxy and establish order, rather than carve out some small little petty empire for himself where power can be concentrated in a few ships and people, the choice is obvious.
I'd still think Thrawn would vastly prefer a more flexible ship over a completely vulnerable and overly expensive target.
Yeah, he would USE it if he had to, but that's like giving him the Death Star or some other brain-dead Imperial weapon of fear rather than of actual utility.
Ok, I'm gonna say it. Thrawn looks like Elon Musk in "blueface" :)
Pelleon in the books thought about what thrawn could have done with the executor if it hadnt been destroyed
Grand Admiral Thrawn: "I'm surrounded by idiots."
Ezra Bridger: "I thought you're surrounded by gumdrops and ice cream."
6:35 uh, wait, why is Thrawn dressed as Boba Fett? Or just, a Mandalorian? That is such a weird thing to see, and with freaking Darth Vader there, too
#AskEck Okay, if Thrawn isn't going to get an SSD (or other Dreadnought sized warship) from the Emperor for the reasons you described but lets say the Emperor talks to Thrawn one day and says "name one OTHER ship in the fleet and it is yours my loyal servant." What is the one single ship Thrawn would have asked for (presumably that he didn't have already, I guess he could always ask for yet another ISD but that's not fun).
I have an idea what it would be but I don't want to bias you; but lets just say its initials confusingly happened to be ISD.
I feel like Thrawn would want some kind of factory ship, like his own personal Altor tender to support extended operations abroad. Maybe modify it to produce good fighters for his command and subordinates. That's if we're talking a singular ship.
If I were Thrawn being given a SSD, I would name it the Chimera II
@@apathymanthemundane4165 Yea, a factory ship would be great both when he's out taming the Unknown Regions then after he gets back and finds the Empire in shambles (although he wouldn't know the ship would be useful for that at the time).
Although I don't know about it being able to produce "good" fighters, by that I take it to mean fighters that aren't standard Imperial designs. Doubtful they'd be able to cook those up on their own, even if they did they aren't going to match what Raith Sienar and his design teams cook up in terms of efficiency. At best they'd be able to turn out TIEs modified with things like shield generators or missiles at the expense of the features that make a TIE effective. They might be able to build Starwings and Skipray Blastboats at really low production rates (although it might be more efficient just to put in a requisition for them), I doubt TIE/Ds and TIE/ADs are coming off a factory ship due to the complexity unless maybe they stripped out the hyperdrives; since I doubt such small hyperdrives are easy to build and frankly a TIE/D without one would still be a damn good fighter.
A Lucrehulk or Venator, something that can carry a ton of troops and/or fighters.
Or maybe a World Devastator if that was invented and Thrawn knew about it, more due to the fact that it's essentially a mini Star Forge than anything.
Empire is still xenophobic, he's just a high ranking alien.
As far as I can tell, every version of thrawn has shown a disdain or indifference at least to to anything larger than a Star Destroyer.
A SSD can NEVER operate without significant escort. In an emergency, an SD can
Also after the Clone Wars, there wasn’t really anything that could challenge an SD that an SSD could better. So you sink extremely large amounts of time, energy and resources into 1 thing, as opposed to 3-5 things for the same cost (at minimum) that can thus be deployed elsewhere.
This does not factor in the extreme maintenance costs of the SD alone. I stagger to imagine the costs of an SSD.
The only theoretical advantage an SSD could possibly offer over a SD for Thrawn is more computer capacity to coordinate strategic operations. But I feel that Thrawn found the facilities of the Chimera sufficient for that
Completely agree. Thrawn in HTTE relied on hit and run tactics like the rebels used against the Empire during the GCW period, and using an SSD would've been a waste of resources, much needed men (before he got Weyland set up) and would've put him on the NR's radar much faster.
I could see him using one to draw the NR's attention away from his main objective, but even then a larger than normal fleet would've accomplished that as well.
I think Thrawn would object to having SSD on two accounts: logistics burden in the UR, and putting too many eggs in one basket. Look at what loss of Executor did at Endor.
I can imagine Thrawn would have seen a Super Star Destroyer like a master Swordsman would see a Warhammer.
If we are talking the REAL Thrawn, it was because he was banished as a CAPTAIN and was granted the rank of Admiral while on the Rim and thus not of rank for an SSD.
If we are talking about Disney's Thrawn, who gives a fuck. The guy was nerfed to death to prop up a shitty live action Ahsoka and a horrible Rebels show.
Thrawn + The Reaper SSD + VADER + The Death Star II + The Dark Reaper - Useless weak Politicians - Palpatine = The Yuzhan Vong Decimated🤯☠️
If you really think about it...
A huge advantage of a SSD is it's size imagine the factory's and research and development center's you could fit on it.
For crew you could replace most of them with droids. With the Tie Advance and defender it could hull around hundreds. And if you put in a factory it could produce it's own. Then enemy fighters would be out numberd and out teched. With it's shielding and fire power it could take down the most important ship of an enemy fleet.
Thrawn if he had a SSD could turn it into a mobile bass of operations although it is slow it's still faster than a planet and tactically, it is an unmatched opponent give it an escort fleet and an upgraded point defense along with Thrawn's Tie fighters and his tactics and an opponent wouldn't stand a chance.
I don’t think he’d want one, focusing all your resources on one ship losing versatility, compared to having the equivalent finding into regular ISDs
#AskEck
Would love for you to return to ship battles and do a breakdown of the
Covenant CAS assault Carrier vs Resurgent class star destroyers
If you think that match is unfair then perhaps a CAS vs 2 (or 3) ISD’s would be interesting too.
It really all comes down to shields. While the ISD has more firepower, the CAS has a better shield system, so my money is with the Covenant.
(eckharts saying the Executor is the most powerful ship)
Eclipse: Am I a JOKE to you?!
Death Star: Pipe down, you are just a fat executor with an axial pea shooter! And don't even start with that "calling me a station" crap. I have engines and move. I am a ship too.
I once saw something about how thrawn was givin command of the Vengeance (a super star destroyer) but the only evedeince that I found confurming that was this video (minute 7:45) th-cam.com/video/2hSZ2xWEvxI/w-d-xo.html
I think the main reasons why Thrawn wouldn't want a SSD is because they're slow, big, probably have low amounts of AA guns, and because it would be a main target for the New Republic/Rebels.
If Thrawn did have one, it would be very likely he would use it as a distraction and command from another Star Destroyer, just like already said in the video.
Only if Thrawn was able to have a modified version of the SSD, then it could be different.
.Manioverment of the Malevolence
.A large amount of AA guns Corvettes and other small vessels have
.A lot of fighters and bombers being carried aboard it
.A Superweapon installed into it, such as the Malevolence's super ion cannons or the Eclipse's large planetary-destroying/ship laser
This would make the SSD a lot better for Thrawn and his Imperial Remnants fleet at Peridia.
wtf I thought there was only one. Having many cheapens its extravagance.
Super Star destroyers are required to compensate for somthing lacking
Thrawn Is the equal to a Super Star destroyer ..... I'd rather face a Super Star destroyer than Thrawn in a Star fighter or corvette
Why Star Wars franchise uses the term "navy" if there's no water in space? Why not fleet? Isn't it dumb? - it's actually dumb, that was just a rhetoric question.
#AskEck What Space Marine legion would be most effective for the Imperial Army in Star Wars
Pretty sure Thrawn didn't like the SSD as it was, in his opinion, tactically difficult to plan around.
Thrawn is a Giga Chad. He doesn't need to compensate for anything.
#AskEck I would be interested in fleet logistics; fuel transport, cargo, that sort of thing
Me as well, id like to see a video/videos of the different types of fuel and what they're each used for, Rhydonium, Tibanna, Klouzon I think its called, etcetera.
I would be intrigued as to what you think Grand Admiral Thrawn could do with a Super Star Destroyer
If Thrawn had a SSD, there would have been no New Republic.
I thought Thrawn didn’t get one because he was sent out to the Unknown Regions before the Executor-line even left the production line.
#AskEck In Legends after Endor, what was life like as or under an Imperial Warlord. How did they rule their territories, maintain the economy, build armies and ships, pay for those armies and ships. I ask for the small Warlords that controlled 1-3 planets but you could talk about the bigger ones like the Pentastar Alignment or Zsinj too.
Imagine if Thrawn bad an Eclipse SSD
6:21 why the heck Thrwan is wearing a mandalorian armor?
More important then national news if you ask me.
Logistics. He's already out in the Unknown Regions far from the main Imperial supply chains and lines of communications. Even if he's working to establish bases and supply depots out there, imagine trying to keep an SSD properly supplied in what was essentially the middle of nowhere (Chiss Ascendancy notwithstanding). Just think about the challenges involved in doing so. And keeping the SSD properly supplied would also be taking supplies and equipment away from Thrawn's task of establishing those aforementioned bases.
There was no way Thrawn could support a resource intense SSD in the Unknown Regions.#AskEck what was the net Worth of the Hego Damask by 34BBY?
I agree, if it was being built he would have disapproved but if already built he would have found a use for it. I would use it as a mobile base rather than a front line ship. Also would have tried to get more of the tie defenders for my pilots.
I've been working on a fanfiction series that beefs up the Empire of the Hand (making it stronger and more active, instead of fading away after Thrawn's death and his clone's in Legends - i.e. other authors not named Timothy Zahn completely forgetting about it). Anyway, my Empire of the Hand constructs a new type of Super Star Destroyer to use as its flag ship against the Yuuzhan Vong, and it doubles as a mobile repair station for other capital ships:
*Renaissance-class Super Star Destroyer* (about 12 km long)
Built: Kuat Drive Yard’s Spiral Shipyards, Nirauan system. Officially finished construction in 21 ABY, but Admiral Parck would occasionally make use of its incomplete state before then.
The Renaissance class is a shorter, wider, heavier-set, ship than the more familiar Executor-class SSDs from the old Galactic Empire, taking several design features from the prototype Eclipse class, including integrated interdiction technology, a complement of over 400 TIE Defender fighters, and a superlaser capable of cracking a planetary crust (or a Yuuzhan Vong world ship). Like other Empire of the Hand designs, the Renaissance-class’ bridge is not located in an exposed tower, but rather deep inside the ship, with cameras and a powerful sensor suite compensating for the lack of viewports. Borrowing from Mon Calamari designs, the Renaissance-class also utilizes overlapping shield technology. As well as standard Imperial weaponry like turbolasers, tractor beams and ion cannons, the Renaissance -class also utilizes Chiss Ascendency weaponry such as Plasma ball launchers and breacher missiles.
The main difference from the earlier class (and, the “selling point” that convinced then-Grand Moff Xelarra to sign off on its creation) is the ability of the Renaissance-class to carry up to five Imperial or Spiral- class Star Destroyers on the hull itself, with the smaller (but still capital sized) ships docking on five triangular recesses on the main hull, 3 on top of the superstructure, two below. The Renaissance-class can thus act as a mobile repair station as well as the command ship. Its main hanger bay can internally carry ships up to 300 m in length (i.e. the size of an Arquitens-class light cruiser or an Explorer-class research/scout vessel).
The Renaissance also has integrated Interdictor technology, and is equipped with several cloaking devices (necessary because of the ship’s size). These two systems cannot normally be used at the same time, though Grand Admiral Thrawn remembers a few tricks learned earlier in his career to get around this limitation. As cloaking devices are double-blind - they protect a ship from detection, but said ship also cannot see outside of it when activated through conventional means, the cloak is most effectively used with the cooperation of an Imperial Knight, who can use the Force to sense outside the cloak. However, with proper timing and practice the cloaks can be used without the assistance of Force-users.
As the Empire of the Hand did not sign the Pellaeon-Gavrisom Treaty, they are not prohibited from using cloaking devices.
Known vessels in the class:
SSD Renaissance
CO: Fleet Admiral Voss Parck (19-28 ABY), Grand Admiral Thrawn (28 ABY +)
XO: Commodore Eli Vanto (28 ABY+)
Starfighter commander: Colonel Jagged Fel (28 ABY +)
Flagship of the Navy of the Hand. Displays the same Paccosh signil as the ISD Chimaera on its hull.
Commissioned by Fleet Admiral Parck, in anticipation of Grand Admiral Thrawn’s rumoured return in 19 ABY. Thrawn (actually his clone, known as ‘Raw’nuru’ until he was ready to retake the mantle of Grand Admiral) did not take command until the beginning of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, after the Evacuation of Lysatra.
He ate it.
(Disney live action version)
#AskEck what species or particular person would you make a clone army of for Star Wars.
I’ve often seen it said that Thrawn wouldn’t want an SSD, I suspect based on a scene from the first of the new novels where he explains to Eli Vanto that ISD sized vessels and accompanying escorts are the most efficient forms of projected naval power.
I’ve made the point before though, not unlike Eck, that Thrawn is not the type to waste an available resource. Indeed a large part of his characterisation is the clever use of what he has available. He usually doesn’t have the biggest, the best, or the most numerous, but he does have the genius to use what he has to win anyway.
I agree just because he opposed the construction of said ship he would not oppose using it if it were put in front of him. And yea he would have used it as a base of opp in the unknown. Im honestly shocked he wasn't given the first one off the line to then be sent out into the unknown to do his thing. DUH!
6:40 You can have an SSD hid in a nebula while you have SD, or Victories running around scouting and causing hell or not all while giving you a base of operations to rebuild what you have lost. The SSD is a mini manufacturing facility. VITAL!
#AskEck Do you think the Separatists could have won the Clone Wars if palpatine wasn't in control?
For sure man they outnumbered everything
#askeck what is thrawn's story and how did he die, what are the key differences between legends and cannon thrawn as far as personality or flaws go?
Maybe he will steal one in Ashoka season 2
The Thrawn series of books would have been a little different if he had one but he wrecked the New Republic without it. the Chimaera was scary enough with him in command.
I feel like eck has to talk about this at least once a year
Thrawn with an Executor would more than likely one of two ways.
1: He uses it to distract the NR while running around with the Chrimera.
2: He uses it as a sledge hammer bringing it in to stomp NR fleets already engaged or as a Spearhead
I see if he wanted his own SSD. Then he would take advantage and have designed one like no other!! One capable of normal SSD tasks but also able to have a fleet of SD dock with the ship as well as have a ship building bay capable of building ships from fighter size up to SD.
You literally just described the Mega SSD from TLJ.
Would love to see an SSD in the upcoming shows / movies Thrawn will be in. Even though its unlikely it's been forever since we've seen one in film
If Thrawn had a SSD, I think he would have kept it hidden most of the time. A SSD in Chiss space would have alienated him from any alliance with them. I could see him use it for covert attacks against the Vagarri or Vong probes, but he would use it more as a hidden base. In HTTE, he would use it to guard Mt. Tantiss or as a staging platform to refit the Katana Fleet. At most, he would jump in and out of different sectors to lead the New Republic Navy on a distracting chase while hitting his real targets.
I think Thrawn would also get a lot of use out of a SSD by using it as a "fleet in being." This is basically a strategy where fleets (or even large ships) are kept in friendly ports with the intention of tying down enemy forces to guard or counter it. He could station the SSD somewhere, wait for the New Republic to redeploy their forces in systems near it, and launch a diversionary attack with great effect.
#AskEck Will there be a Star Wars “What If?” show? What are your thoughts on this?
That's Star Wars Visions. Star Wars doesn't do parallel realities so we won't see something like What If.
It's not just the resources needed to build the things, but also the resources needed to _maintain_ them.
#AskEck Did grand admiral thrawn know of the fall of the empire? If so how? He was completely exiled in Star Wars cannon and missed a majority of major events in the galactic civil war.
Just trying to get the comment easier to find
I would imagine he would have been able, through the Great Mothers, to know the "jist" of the main big events like the Emperors death and/or Vaders as well, and id say even with only that knowledge, he would have been able to deduce that the likelihood of the Empire staying cohesive without them and their nearly unfathomable powers the military command structure would have very likely collapsed and the civilian/non-military aspects of imperial infrastructure along with it.
Can you do a video about the infighting the empire had I'm really interested in this
Imagine instead of the Death Star they focused more on Super Star Destroyers for EVERY Admiral/Grand Moff and more ISD2s for a more flexible navy...No DS1/2 and just a galaxy spanning Navy.
I imagine thrawn using a SSD more like a mobile base. From there coordinate quick strikes and return to resupply.
I think this is an interesting topic hmm yes quite interesting he would do good with a super star destroyer
No
I think he would use it like an aircraft carrier/C&C ship for directing operations and not necessarily being on board .Thanks Bud, great work as always.
The Empire’s racism really cost them so many good things.
Didn't Thrawn DISDAIN SSD's and super weapons? He liked the tactical flexibility of smaller ships of the line mixed with Impstar Deuces and Vic's.
I haven't watched your video yet, about to now.
You think that ship is only a resource waste while _building_ it?
This thing would have been a logistics drain on his entire operation. Just on crew expenses it was worth *8* ISD!
Those can be in 8 places, the SSD is in one. And is trivially easy to keep track off.
And where others would fail with an SSD, he could win with 4 ISDs.
They were pure status symbols and protection against mutiny by subordinate ship capstains. Militarily they did less then the same crew complement or tonnage of ISDs.
"Do you have any idea how much power I would have to _give up_ to become president?" - Lex Luthor
"I am against the building of Super Star Destroyers".
"We're going to build them anyway. You want one?"
"Yeah. F**k it. Why not?"
The excuator class is just one type of super star destroyer,,many others where " invented, "...In the book series Trawn has a personal body guards of aliens,he even had certain animals that blocked the force,,,eventually he died by he's own guards in the books at least...
Also what's the backlash from the admiralty pre endor or ESPECIALLY pre lothal in Canon if you give an alien an ssd
The greater Human Body Politic in the Star Wars Imperial Military are almost as xenophobic as their Imperium counterparts in the Warhammer 40k universe
#AskEck What Warhammer 40k faction would've been the most/least helpful as an ally to the New Republic against the Vong?
Echarts Ladder, the other issue is that yeah Grand Admerial Thrawn would have used whatever resources handed to him, but Thrawns own personal prerences would have also played a role. Which personally, i tend to agree. There is way too much focus on two really bad points, 1: Ever larger ships. 2: way too many fighters compared to expense. I would have prefered a much better designed millitary. Lighter, Better armed, faster fleets. Ships to Blockcade hyperspace routes. Pull Rebel ships out of hyperspace, and into Emp fields. I could sit post just outside Emp fields, and paper shred the rebel fleets.
I mean, to be fair, would YOU say no to SSD. I know I wouldn't.
What's that IRS? Taxes? Say that again to my massive ship of death.
For some reason i just picture thrawn's SSD having a sick paint job and pulling handbrake turns/drifting maneuvers that would make the cast of fast and the furious gasp 🤣🤣
Thrawn is good enough to not NEED a SSD, but if he had one, oh boy! Plus Palpatine knew Thrawn would never truly be 100% loyal to the empire. He would never betray the empire, but he would keep secrets if it protected the Chiss. That’s the only reason Thrawn joined the empire, to gain an ally to help the Chiss when a serious threat came
Let’s be honest, Thrawn kinda thought ISD’s were overkill. He probably was offered an SSD and said “nah, I’ll take some victory II’s if you have any”
0:54 Thrawn would have never accepted command of a SSD. That whole concept, of 'super-large ships', was repulsive to him. Ships of that size would be slow, and would need to maintain defences across the entirety of the vessel, whilst having multiple smaller vessels striking at will...? That is true, throughout history, and Thrawn knew it, which is why he opposed the concept.
#AskEck about an hour into episode IX, when the falcon is rescuing Rey from an apparently undefended hangar, Poe blasts the engines to knock down the stormtroopers surrounding her, but somehow the Falcon doesn’t move forward. How and why can the Falcon do this?
Tangentially related to this, shouldn’t everyone subjected to the exhaust plume be burned or irradiated or something? How dangerous are Star Wars engines? If Crosshair’s helmet had fit better would he have been fine?
Keep in mind that the Executor Super Star Destroyers were made to punch as much as a dozen of Star Destroyers while being one massive dreadnought.
Logistics are a pain. You need over 275k persons to make run, almost 2k gunners and even if it can do hyperspace travel, Enemies will throw everything they have to disable or destroy it.
It have among it's flaws the fact that the belly of the SSD had no weapons, you could just circle under one and force the others Imperial warship to stop firing unless they can hit you with missing or hitting the SSD.
Ressources were also a pain. To prevent an easily destroyed SSD, there was at least 6 ISD and a few more warships escorting it, thus putting a massive target on itself.