How does Warlord ‘Epic’ scale compare to 15mm?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2020
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Seemingly out of the blue Warlord Games unveiled their new range of plastic 'epic' scale American Civil War figures for pre-order right now..... but how big are they and how do they compare with other figures. What do they look like?
It has all got a lot clearer thanks to Wargames Illustrated magazine which gave away a stue of the new models on the front of the January edition of the magazine.
You can pre-order the starter bundle here: store.warlordgames.com/collec...
The Union brigade here: store.warlordgames.com/collec...
The Rebel Brigade here: store.warlordgames.com/collec...
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#epic - เกม
The problem for me is that they 'could' have easilly made them 15mm scale and schose not to. The only reason I can think of is to try and lock people in GW style to using only their models.
I wonder if the production process would have been harder with larger minis - but I suspect they wanted to lock people in more and while there are some manufactures out there with a similar scale, they are small companies ad wont compete with Warlord
I was thinking the same thing. A unique scale not compatible with existing things anyone else makes is very GW-like. I wish they were 15 or 10, not 12.5.
I wouldn't mix-n-match, but I don't mind having a game with a different scale at all. I'll use this epic scale for epic battles and use my existing 15mm ACW for smaller Fire & Fury games.
@@aricliljegren890 at the prices it wouldn’t be an issue to do exactly that with different armies at different scales for sure
Yes, they are 12/13mm. A bit naughty really. We don't really need another scale in wargaming. Done for commercial reasons of course.
Great Overview Dom! I can imagine you can create massive battles with this scale.. Thank you for the analysis my friend! Merry Christmas!
cheers my friend, Merry Christmas to you too
Good review Dom. Yes, they are 12/13mm. Done for commercial reasons of course.
cheers - yes of course that's the main reason
Perfect for newbies in the hobby of "Epic" scale historicals. A gamble for those who have existing 15mm ACW. Thanks for the Video, very much appreciated. I've been on the fence about this upcoming release from Warlord.
you are welcome - as I said on the video - I am personally on the fence but I can see how they are a great thing for some
Very helpful review. Thank you!
You're welcome!
Nice review Dom, I used to have a massive collection of 15mm figures I don't think I would start another collection but did enjoy this, merry Christmas, all the best Garry
Cheers Garry, Merry Christmas to you too my friend
After getting the set, I carefully measured the epic plastics. They are precisely 15mm. The problem is that other manufacturers make their 15mm bigger; anywhere from 16 to 18mm. Most also make their miniatures chunkier and also have a thicker stand. Peter Pig match up well after the base already on the miniature is filed down to match the thickness of the Warlord epics. A good way to use other miniatures is to mix up the Peter Pig ones with Kallistra models, the Kallistra range being slimmer and closer to the Warlord miniatures, and in turn using them as skirmishers or dismounted cavalry.
A very fair review. I am waiting for my mag and figures to arrive through the post. I will paint them up and then see finally what I think.
I painted one unit and they come out pretty well to be fair
After watching your videos it's inspired me to paint my figures which came with the margarine. I've also pre orderd some sets from warlord.many thanks.
great stuff - they bare nice figures and will look good massed up for battle I am sure - the future releases could be interesting too
What colour is best to do caps for ACW
@@markwright5967 I quite liked the effect of contrast paint gryph-charger grey
Great review Dom. Nah, after seeing the comparison I have no interest in these epic figures. I have a lot of 15mm ACW and these are too different to add them to my armies.
Cheers Paul - yes if you are well served by 15mm avoid these I think
Very interesting Dom. All seems to be a bit cloak and dagger from Warlord on these so good to see them up close. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Yes Jim - I wish they were more open about it - but they will still be a huge success I am sure
Thanks for the video Dom. As someone that primarily plays 28mm skirmish these do look tempting. A big "black powder" sized battle that you could play on a 6x4 at home.
I wonder if the size differences would be so noticeable if brigaded seperatly to other manufacturers figures especially at arms length along a tabletop.
Be very curious to see a comparison when painted up as well.
Merry Christmas
cheers GP - Happy Christmas to you too. I agree if separated they wont look too bad, although I still think with newer 15mm figures they will look out of place
Highta and weights will vary between individuals. One manufacturer may plan on six foot heavy set soldiers. Another will go with the historical size. Union soldiers averaged 5’8” 140 pounds. Not overly tall and lean. Metal figures will be chunkier because molten metal flows differently then injected plastic. Some people use 6mm figures on command bases with 3mm infantry, and it works on a game table. Don’t put these in the same base with other manufacturers, but with separate units on the game table they will work fine.
Each to their own. Some will be happy with the difference, some not so much
Great review dom. Ive just had mine turn up in the post and wanted to wait till I had had a look before watching anyones review on them and I agree they do look pretty good especially considering how far away from them you will be standing and for their price for what you get. Not to sure on the cannons but other than that. As you said "not that bad"
Have a very merry Christmas dom 😁👍
Cheers Miller - hope you and yours have a great day
Ooooooooooh I am so envious.
Great video, very informative. I'm new to this scale/period so it's great for me, just ordered the starter set. I'm not a fan of plastic bases so would prefer MDF, if I may ask, what size are the bases please so I can order to the MDF equivalent, thanks.
They are 6x2cm mate. Thanks for the kind words
Hope this helps....Warlord Games "Epic" seem to be the same size/scale as GW's old Epic Fantasy line....12mm
The union soldiers in the video that you say are newer are the Old Glory line 16-18mm
Your others include Musket Miniatures and some Mini-Figs which are both closer to true 15mm
your artillery example are by Essex and they are bulky 15mm, but good....
10 -12mm ACW stuff can work together and 1/144 scale models work for this as well
Thank you for the video, as I was wondering about their size.
Cheers!
you are most welcome - i was interested and I knew other would be too. Thanks for the information - most of my ACW collection was built up over years through bring and buys and ebay as I had other periods I was painting so I had no idea what ranges they were from mostly!
Thanks for sharing the sprue Dom. When it comes to painting, having the 'odd' guy in the same place can help, I find. It stops me missing bits because I know "5th in" is different all the time etc. I'm looking forward to their non ACW stuff... 15mm ECW would be nice, but I guess they have to get "the big boys" done 1st (ACW, Naps, Romans).
Feels like Warlord did a GW and made up a scale so bits arn't interchangeable.
seems they did channel their inner GW with this which i think is a big shame....
I'd have thought that the prime motivation for ACW was that, not only is it a popular period with wargamers, but that it is a period where the soldiers of both sides look much the same except for the colour of their uniforms (at least when you dumb it down), so one sprue gives everything that you need to get started. Naps would be a bit more difficult (ie less cost effective for Warlord) as you'd need separate sprues for British Line, French Line, French Guard, blah, blah, blah. But something like WSS might be a goer as this is another period where the troops of both sides look similar to one another (unless you are a purist of course, in which case Warlord Games probably aren't the company for you anyway). I can't help thinking that if they gone with 10mm or 15mm figures designed to go on "standard" basing of 1 inch frontage that they would have sold a lot more figures in the long run.
Nice one Dom, great comparison, wonder how they'd match up with Kallistra 12mm? i might get the £90 starter deal
Hey Leon, the images I have seen seems to suggest they do match better with Kallistra for sure. Buy via my affiliate link below please!!!!
I've only been able to look at these off of warlord web site til this video. I appreciate your analysis, for I am looking into getting into this period. As a new player with limited funds, I'd have to say, based on your review, I will seriously consider this "epic line" simply because of price and the fact it will most likely be just myself and a friend playing/hobbying. Thanks!
certainly I think these are a good deal and worth it I'd say
I think this would be a great option for someone just getting into the period. However, it limits your ability to use models with other rules sets and to add models from other companies to add a little variety.
Excellent review Dom. As Michael Riddick says they are more like 12mm, which makes me wonder how they compare with Kallistra Miniatures ACW in the same scale. I think the infantry strips look great, but the guns are a bit of a deal breaker in that they have only 8 spokes whereas there should be 14. Might not be concern for some but it will annoy me. Having said that the cheapness of the figures means you can choose not to use the guns and buy some from Kallistra instead, assuming they match well.
I might buy a couple of the brigade packs as I had started down the 10mm route with Pendraken.
Sounds like a great option for you then Chris
Some of your older figures I think are minifigs, I've got the same ones. I wonder if you put the WG figs on the same or slightly thicker bases (ie 3mm rather than 2mm mdf) whether they will fit a bit better. If my issue of WI ever arrives it will be interesting to see. I'm currently toying with the idea of rebasing my old ACW for Blucher (or derivative), so it could be tempting to stick these on their own bases as separate brigades. How wide are the bases? No-one ever seems to mention
You are right, if you bulk up the bases it would help a little. These new ones are 6x2 cm mate
Very good and fair review. One question I have for Warlords is why, when every other infantryman is in march attack pose, do they have a single figure on the front left of the command group with his weapon at a 45 degree angle across his front?
cheers thanks - yes its very odd indeed why that pose is in the line
Yes! I noticed that immediately when I saw the reveal and it irked me
What irks me more than that is the two guys in every standard block that have their muskets in their left hand. -Signed, a former reenacting 1st Sergeant
@@brianshively4857 I guess it must be because of the plastic injection process but it is indeed strange
Thank you for the review. I’m new to the hobby and looking at which size and manufacture to buy. Also looks like the base is thinner than you older 15mm
Glad it was helpful - and yes thicker bases would bulk them up a bit but they are still pretty slight as minis. Nice though for the scale and price
Nice review Dom. the figures look decent.
cheers Vic - yes they definitely are
Good review - thank you !
The only figures I've got that these will be compatible with is some very old Hinchcliffe "Sytem 12" Napoleonics from the mid 70's. Makes me feel old ! On the other hand, 12mm is railway modeller's N Gauge so it makes getting scenery easier, particularly for ACW rail track.
It's a shame Warlord have gone for the commerically short-sighted idea of locking new players into an ecosystem rather than wanting to be inclusive to exisintg players who already have many thousands of figures in the established 15mm-18mm scale.
It means there's still a gap in the market for a company to make affordable 15mm plastics, although 3D printing may make that idea obsolete remarkably quickly.
completely agree - 3D will shake it all up in time
Nice review Dom, they do look very nice on their own, maybe they would fit in better with 10\12mm figures, not for me as i have ACW in 28mm that i must finish, and a few in 10mm, but for anyone starting out they'd be great
Yes I think they would work with 10s or 12s quite nicely - I dont have any to be sure, but the pictures i have seen online seem to show a good comparison
Good price nice enough looking models great for someone starting ACW but the problem comes if you want to play against
someone else who already has 15mm and you are limited on base size but all in all good deal great vid Dom
Cheers mate - agreed on the opponent side - but if you have a buddy who wants to get into it, the starter set split two ways is a pretty sweet deal
i am new to black powder and was considering playing it att a smaller scale. Although, I feel the units aren't 1:1 soldier wise so I don't see the need for going for a much smaller scale. was considering doing it in 20mm and just halfing the ranges. i think I would enjoy painting 20mm more than 15mm or smaller
I think these will be pretty simple to paint to be honest. Ironical the way they are moulded will make painting easier.
I don't have any ACW yet, so I think this is going to be how I make my way into the period.
Good value for sure Justin
On their live chat it was certainly intimated if this does well then other periods will follow certainly Napoleonic and Hail Ceaser were mentioned
@@squigs1917 Hail Caesar figs would be great ...for DBA 3.0!
Thank you, Dom .
You are very welcome
I haven't received my WI this month. Wonder if it's caught up in the Christmas mail.
the mail is rather wonky right now generally so hope you get it before Christmas
@@BootsontheTable came today :) Time to have a look at them.
Thanks for the video. It’s always a problem comparing painted and unpainted figures, paint make them have more presence. But scales aren’t consistent between manufacturers. Even models that are the same height have different bulks and feels. At least warlord do have a rule set that enables you to field troops on different base sizes. Unlike other sets. Personally, I’d rather have 100troops per unit than the 24-40 models for the grand battle look.
Scales are seldom consistent it’s true, but there were so many questions about what this ‘epic’ scale is I wanted to see myself as much as anything! The effect of these figures all ranked up on the table will certainly be great visually
I am waiting for my copy of WI to arrive so that I can inspect the figures for myself before making a decision but this project looks highly promising for me. I have a 28mm collection for ACW skirmish games but have been trying to decide on a large game scale for quite a while and this looks like it could be it. Looking at your vid I think they have struck a good balance of detail as you will be painting up probably thousands of figures so too much detail would make it an impossible task. Fingers are firmly crossed...:-)
Certainly the price is excellent if you want a big game at low cost. The figures are better than I expected
Boots on the Table with Dom Totally agree. If I already had a significant ACW collection then I would pass and just expand what I have but (fortunately) my dithering may have paid off for once! I really do like the close ordered ranks which reminds me of the Pickett’s Charge scenes in Gettysburg. I honestly think that when these units are painted up they will look quite awesome. Thanks for the vid.
@@riddcowler8547 lol good for you!
Any chance you can give a measure of the width and depth of the infantry base? Nobody seems to bother with that in anything I've seen on these. Thanks!
6x2cm mate
Thank you again!
Just subbed to Wargamming Magazine, so hope my copy arrives soon.
The way the post is right now I have my fingers crossed for you
@@BootsontheTable I am new to this period and being a flames of war/battlegroup player i'm used to '15mm' scale being all over the place depending on company. Especially when it comes to tanks. Cheers for the review.
Looks to fiddle to change but your right if you do a whole army from the start a good choice I'll buy the mag and have a bash for fun
Got to be worth painting up at least!
Any links to videos of these being painted? Links please.
Thanks
Working on it it’s coming
looking at them close up its clear they are smaller than the old "15mm" scale. However, what I think is more important is the 3ft rule. Set them on the tabletop next to the old models where they are more than an arms length away and I don't think you cant tell a 1-2mm difference in height.
May fit well with freikorps - at the end of the day 15mm isn’t a scale it’s a measurement and 15mm now ranges from figures that are 14mm to 18mm.
Its whatever you can deal with - for some it really wont be an issue - agreed 3ft rule applies - but for others they will hate it. Your money your choice!
not read the BP rules for this, but why inf unit grouping of 10? doesnt it lose the attrition flexibilty of multiple figures in small scale, and effectively just becomes a skirmish game with higher casualty numbers? nice review, shame cant split them down
cheers - I dont have the epic rules either but my understanding is that they recommend 5 stands of 10 for a battalion - that seems far too big, we play 15mm BP as 3-4 stands only
Close - order at last. Magnificent sprue.
model regiments '' social distancing for 5000 years of warfare ''
They do look nice
The price alone makes these seem like a pretty good idea. Be interested to see the Napoleonics if and when they appear.
yes I would be interested in Naps, but again I have loads of 15mm so not sure I want a random scale again
Personally I'd love to see the Boshin war in this style as well as Colonial conflicts like the Boer war, the Boxer rebellion and the Sudan. That way Warlord wouldn't be treading on the toes of current players in the popular ACW and Napoleonics as few people have models for those periods.
napoleonic onpre order now
I wonder that if the Warlord miniatures were mounted on a very thick base, that would compensate for their smaller size?
to a degree yes, but they are still much slighter in build - even that isnt so bad if you have older 15mm like me - but the newer ones.... not so much
I suppose for someone like me who has never dabbled in 15mm this may be the ideal way to start. The box price looks reasonable. I will have a look when I get my copy of WI
yes if you are starting fresh into ACW and like Black Powder, they are a winner
Nice comparison some heroic scale looks nice for me
cheers Lucian, as I said the quality was rather better than I expected
Not quite as bad as I feared but they certainly won't match my old glory / blue moon range. Thank you for putting this video up I been waiting to see a comparison . I'm hoping if they do Napoleonics I may risk them for another army but not to mix with what I have. These will fit the cheaper Warrior miniatures range and the older minifigs ( your front rank) stuff better. I keen to see them with a bit of paint on and compared to the others now that might blend them in a bit. I think it's 600 figures in a pack not 300 btw
cheers for watching. I have painted the first regiment and they look pretty good
I really like them. Considering the bases are about half the thickness of the bases of your older models, the difference isn't that big at all, especially taking into account the size variability of historical models from different manufacturers anyway. The multiple holes in the Warlord bases look like they're going to be universal bases for many models in the range so we are likely to see skirmishers, cavalry, etc come into the range meaning you could easily (and very cheaply) field a sizeable army and use 15mm models from other manufacturers to fill in any gaps as the range expands. That wouldn't look too out of place at all. I hope they plan to release a solid ACW range before moving onto the holy grail of Napoleonic in this style - though I'm eager to see that too.
Exactly. Every mini company plays around with scale on their figures. So I’m honestly confused as to why so many people are wringing their hands over the scale of these minis.
I think there is a general concern amongst many gamers that Warlord is only a short skip away from becoming a historical Games Workshop and they (and I) certainly dont want that. By starting a new scale which largely excludes you from playing with any other manufacturers is exactly the sort of thing GW would do. These figures are actually very nice but the scale will annoy many, the lack of flexibility and locking you to only using them for Black Powder will annoy others. Just it was all so unnecessary really, although commercially they will do well I am sure, they have continued to fuel the GW fear
Warlord unfortunately do pick some odd scales to try and lock people in to their systems and figures - 1:700 for Black Seas, 1:1800 for VAS (with the horrible bases), and now 13.5mm ground to eye for these ACW. Having said that there is already a broad range of sizes across other manufacturers - there has been an upward size creep for years - 25mm used to be 25mm in the 1970s and 1980s (I have early / original GW figures as well as recent miniatures). 15mm used to be 'slim 15mm (remember the Mini-Figs strips ?)and these have crept up to 18mm 'heroic' (Plump figures).
However, if you look at these figures in this really useful video (thanks Dom), you can see that the comparable metal painted figures are on much thicker bases, and building the bases to the same height will make them close.
If you currently play ancients - players will field figures from various manufacturers/ages so there is no reason that, if you had these ACW figures, that you would turn down a game with slightly larger 15mm-18mm figures fielded by a mate at the club.........
So I started off annoyed at Warlords for yet another odd scale, but this one is not a game breaker, so I share Dom's view - this has potential and the economy and ease of painting makes it ok. I think that this one is going to work.
Rules : Sadly Cruel Sea was a downer my opinion, others may differ in their view), not because of the models but because of the poor production and checking of the rules before they were issued. If you produce a badly written and badly checked set of rules after that amount of hype and have to issue, (what was it ?) 11 pages of things to cut and stick in weeks after issue, then there is a fair element of carelessness about the rules checking/ play testing and issue. This annoyed a lot of people and lost people in the early stages. - Black Powder is not in this position. This is a proven set of rules that have been around for a while, so that should also support the case for this epic system - All in all there is considerable potential here.
Black Powder is a good and proven game system and with these figures costing what they do I think this will be a massive success for Warlord
The recent FAQ video with Warlord said that fitting the figures into the size of sprue available while keeping "100" men on it was the primary reason for going with the slightly smaller scale.
Personally, I don't think these minis ranked shoulder to shoulder would match up well with any 15mm single figures as just the basing and spacing alone would seldom work without looking out of place.
I wish I could believe that and not that they wanted to lock players into using their models, but whatever they are cheap and very nice so can't blame anyone for buying them
I don't think Warlord really cares what figures you generally use with their rules and seem to be happy to show photos of lots of different manufacturers in their books.
As you said in your review, modern 15s are closer to 18s anyways, so you could never make everyone happy.
@@johnmiddleton4291 yeah although ranked as these are you can’t easily use them for other rule systems, but I don’t suppose Warlords care. They are going to sell loads of these I am sure
I think that if you raise their bases just a little, they are compatible with classic 15mm minis.
They would certainly look better I agree - but they are very slight compared to even classic old 15mm
I'll be buying this issue Dom as this does appeal to me
They are nice Justin, I cant lie
I like the 15's guy better. I wish PSC would do 15 AWI and ACW.
The Epic paint up nicely for sure but I agree I prefer the 15mm
Fascinating stuff. A very bold move by Warlord, who have produced what is really a "sawtooth" base rather than individual models - the same approach taken, for example, by Irregular Miniatures with 6mm figure strips. They've also done it in a currently unusual scale, making them useless for 15mm (however defined) - but a perfect fit for Kallistra (metal) ACW figures, which opens up immense possibilities. They are price-friendly, are good sculpts, and should interest people about to plunge into ACW for the first time.
They can be used with a variety of rules (no way would I field 100-man units - they can be adapted for more normal man:fig ratios.
If a success, as seems quite possible, I can easily see Napoleonic taking off big time in this scale, and am wondering if this approach to plastic could come to be the "new normal", making 15mm figures (and also 6mm figs) largely redundant. Like it - but more for what could come next ...my top choice would be a WSS range, but I'm guessing Napoleonic would be the one that would make commercial sense.
a lot of people it seems like the idea of Napoleonics... it would be interesting to me although I have 28 and 15mm already, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!
@@BootsontheTable It's a much more complicated exercise than ACW, and numerous bolt-on sets would be needed ...but it will probably happen.
might wait to see some napoleonic , and some massive Cavalry charges
I wonder if they will want to dilute their 28mm Napoleonic sales but massed cavalry would be very cool I agree
The elephant in the room for me is - 1. why don't they have bayonets? And 2. Why messing with scales again? Remember on how well that went down with cruel seas? *Shrugs* The Rick Priestly Rules are great, but the rest that comes from WLG is honestly not that good.
I agree about the bayonets or lack of them, but not sure I agree about not doing much good, I think they have some excellent stuff and actually for the size, these are pretty nice models
@@BootsontheTable Yep - very personal opinion, and it's better to have more in terms of variety. I just feel that they throw out too much without having plans on how to develop and support games after the initial hype.
What's the footprint of a stand of the stand?
6x2cm
A game system for small plastic miniatures made by a company that made it's reputation with 28mm white metal figures called Epic. Must be a Nottingham thing.
lol - well they havent done a bad job with them - although the scale is annoying and many seem to dislike the formations
The problem I have with this set is a gameplay factor: how do you count a single base with 20 mens?
I mean, for me, that count as 1 man/unit/part of a bigger squad.
Way?
Because how could you reorganize that?
You should use a counter or something to make it count as a single unit, to allow to track down formation, casualty and so on...
In the end, if the sprue with "one hundred men" give you 5 bases of 20 men, a cannon and a general, you are not fielding "an army", but just a squad with 2 support stuff...
Dunno if I explained myself
Black Powder which these are set up for doesnt work like that exactly. A unit - usually a battalion but could be scaled differently - will have a stamina value usually measured by the size of the unit. So a typical battalion might have stamina 3, an large or especially elite one 4. Once you suffer casualties they mount up against the stamina and at their stamina number the unit is shaken, over that it takes a morale test. Usually players mark casualties with a counter or so use casualty models
Your 15 mm old figures are on a rather thick base: looks about 4 mm thick. Rebase them on plastic stands less than 1 mm thick and they may be more comparable to the Epic figures, Though the heads are still going to be large on the old 15 mm vs the Epic figures: But then they might look less out of place in the marching position- Just a thought. I think we use
bases that are too thick anyway,
4mm are you serious? More like 2mm….. lol
I wonder how they would compare with Kallistra 12mm scale?
apparently they are pretty close but I dont have any Kallistra myself so cant show
One observation is the difference in your base height as well. Your old bases are higher than the warlord bases.
Yeah some have suggested that and the bases size will impact it for sure, but these Warlord figures are noticeably skinnier and that is compared to older 15mm figures. But as always it’s your choice, not mine if you don’t mind the scale change
Other than playing the bespoke rules from Warlord, the basing system will be problematic with most other rules. There also seems to be a shortage of command types. 1 sprue out of 9? I'll stick with my lovely Blue Moon. Best bet to match in 15mm would probably be Peter Pig.
Yeah good point, one command is a bit light, I wonder if they will release new commands
Why would you want to even need to mix with what you already have? The basing and ranking will be totally different and surely any civil war player will have complete armies anyway.
why would I now? i play BP for ACW and in theory the basing sizes should be the same, I'm not that worried about ranking but size - if too dramatic - yes that concerns me and others it seems
@@BootsontheTable I've got BP but never played it, but is not the model count on a frontage wildly different and the base sizes too? Would look extremely odd even if the models were 2mm taller. I just can't see why a player would want to use these when there are dozens of manufacturers with already compatible models. Are there any articles out yet that compare the BP rules with the supplement for this range? Definitely thinking about getting the starter trying to find out more info if possible.
@@DavidSmith-te9gg model count doesn’t matter in BP.... its all about stamina of the units, so it is just aesthetic view. The Glory supplement has been out for a long time and I have played it a lot myself in 15mm games. It just gives some flavour for the period but is mainly scenarios and army lists.
Interesting, in that they pick a position that isn't in the drill manuals
wll not sure they would have been so tight shoulder to shoulder either but its how they have done them
7400units are on the way haha ;) massive battles incoming !
Nice! Good luck with the project
Problem is trying to use them in other rule systems.
Yes indeed unless you can fit them to other rules these kind of force you to play Black Powder
How wide are the bases. Looks like your roads will need to be wide looking.
They are 6x2com bases
Yes, putting them into column wouldn't quite work with them.
If it was Franco Prussian or Crimean I would be very tempted. Good informative vid👍
I would love either to be next up and I would spend for sure!
A fair review with both good and bad points.
cheer mate - to be fair there is a lot to like about them, but not the scale - if you have others already!
They could have made them slightly more compatible.... somewhat frustrating imho. Now at least they are cheap....
yes I wish they were slightly bigger
Really excited for this release
Yes they will be good for you and Johnny to battle over - I see you as a Union player....
Thicker bases would help mask the differences, + people vary in size
very very true and I am not a scale snob with every figures having to 'fit' with another, but 15mm these are not, but if you can live with the size difference I wouldnt blame you buying them at the price and the quality
I suggest replacing the plastic bases with taller mdf to hide the size difference
Especially as the warlord bases are thinner than the ones he had on the other figures.
certainly that would help, but they are still a lot slighter build, and remember those are older 15mm which are small themselves compared to modern minis - but each to their own - for many this wont be an issue
Anyone know if warlord will make Epic battles Napoleonics?, I do like ACW but I think napoleonic armies are more impressive.
no word yet as far as I am aware
i hope for hail ceasar in this scale :)
I wonder if they will want to risk bastardizing the sales of their 28mm range....
How odd will they look if one side has 15mm and the other has these epic scale?
Very! At least when they come together
It will depend on the manufacturer. warlord and essex, will look less than warlord and Bluemoon (ACW is sold as a 15mm range). I’d say bluemoon and essex will look worse size wise than essex and warlord.
@@col.hertford9855 although the ranking of these figures will emphasise the difference more
i like this scale for mass battle, but dont really care for the Napoleonic era, hope they expand the range to other periods.
No guarantee that Napoleonics will be coming, just rumours and speculations. But for American Civil War these are pretty decent
I think you would have got a better impression if the new stuff was painted and based properly.
Not really - I have now painted and based a few and that doesnt change the size difference, but they are still nice models
The difference in base depth between mdf and plastic doesn’t entirely help a comparison
Certainly it would help the height difference, but the slight build of the figures is the biggest issue for me even at distance.... but if that isn’t a problem for you then I won’t criticise!
you said looks like you have the rebs. Unfortunately the sprues for both confederates and union are the exact same.
No they aren’t.... one is grey and the other blue!
@@BootsontheTable hahahaha! As a Civil War reenactor (portray the 12th Louisiana and the 47th Pennsylvania) I must say these sprues make me cringe. The uniforms all being the same, the way they are carrying their rifles (some shoulder arms, some route step, some appears to be support arms) its all very odd. It's like they went out of their way to do it wrong. Weird.
@@eddieharr I think often Warlord just doff their hats at history mate
It's a good deal, but I hate the minis
they arent that bad, just the thought of painting thousands of almost identical figures puts me off!
Do not have any ACW, do play BP so may give them a go. Your Epic figures were never put on base thicknesses to match your old figures. For the price you can not beat them you could throw out the artillery and buy from another maker. Having watched a paint video on line they do paint well and easily. You will need to look at your painting style. You will have your order in then Dom to add to your stash!
No i dont know that I will on reflection Leslie, I have enough for the games we play and they are so damn small. Yes they paint up nicely though and you are correct the bases can be thickened to match better.
@@BootsontheTable I think as you seem to have a large stash already of ACW why set off in another direction when you would rather spend your valuable time doing other projects!
How often do you get out your existing ACW armies for games?
Good video Dom. Still dont like them. Your older stuff have a better look movement wise. They're just too stiff for me. The price is good and would be a great start for someone new to the ACW.
Also because you have shown that it would be too difficult to separate them they are no good for other games which use different bases. Fire and Fury, Jonny Reb and Picketts charge to name a few. So they are really just for Black Powder and if you don't play them you are gonna have to shop elsewhere.
@@paulspaintshed3511 very true Paul, they are very much for BP
Kallistra are a good match. Check out the TH-cam video titled warlord games epic with some kallistra, By Leon t66 wargaming.
yeah I saw Leon's video clearly they do fit
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere in the comments but from everything I've read the figures are identical for Union and Confederates. The sprues might be coloured plastic but that's it.
That's what I read too
@@BootsontheTable I'm not someone who's particularly well up on ACW - does this make a big difference to you as someone who is? I'm not too familiar on how distinct the two sides' uniforms were.
@@snoophogg85 early War probably more than later. But not a massive amount
@@BootsontheTable thanks!
Wow nowhere near 15-18mm as you say great I guess for a newbie but seriously it's basically a new scale - why wouldn't they just fit in so we could use existing figures? Oh yes I forgot to monopolise and gauge more money from gamers. Love Warlord I really do but this is just frustrating and annoying and makes me feel they don't care for the core customers
I find it a little narrow minded as well - there are many ACW players out there who I am sure would add a few unit to their armies if they fitted, but not many will be prepared to start again in a whole new scale....
While I do have ACW miniatures in different scales, from 28mm to 6mm, I do like this range. From an introductory standpoint, this simply cannot be beat. While 6mm forces would be cheaper to collect, they are also not all that exciting to look at for most. These figures look quite easy to paint up, lacking many of the details we see in other ranges, but which are another hurdle for a person new to the hobby or someone who does not already have an established ACW collection.
Except, I do have an established collection, but I'd rather not risk it on a trip to a convention or taking it to work for my students to play with and handle.
As such, I've already ordered a starter box and am seriously considering taking on at least one more, if not two.
My question is whether this "new" scale utilizes the BP rules as written or if there are some modifications to it, in order to account a greater number of units per side.
I agree value is amazing. As for the rules, I have played pretty large BP games - sometimes even 15mm ACW and they work fine without a lot of modification other than the scales - we do cm for inches
@@BootsontheTable I think I heard something "official" in that the ranges have been halved. So, either cm or 1/2 will work, I guess.
What....no bayonets !!!!!
Nope none at all - got to be a big minus in combat....
They are 12mm, this design is common as many manufacturers like warlord or battlefront change the scale enough to ensure distinction from other manufacturers. I get it but quality and availability would be their hook if they made them along the same scale, but gamers are notoriously cheap lol and wouldn't buy their models and mix theirs, but the look would be very significant obvious, so it leads the players to get thier make, good business approach. Thanks for vid
Thanks for watching. Clearly Warlord want to cleanup on their scales which might work with new players but I doubt it for players with figures already
GDW will be a bit miffed by use of "epic"
not sure they could copyright something like that!
Looks like 10mm.
a little bigger - 13mm maybe?
The game seems to be played with based minis, so it is possible to play it at any scale you like, as long as the bases are the same size.
Also, focus... most of the video is clear shot of your left hand.
Yes of course but you miss the point, if you or your opponents have 15mm figures, these won’t fit and are in different formations. If you are starting fresh, not such an issue
This is boring BUT SO interesting 👍
.....
Honestly not a fan of them and the whole ''epic'' scale thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Though I'm guessing I'm not their target market anymore as they are looking for new players and throwing out new games/systems/scales to draw them in with the new trend. Still feeling a little burnt by how they treated games like SPQR, Project Z, 2000 Ad, Dr Who, Terminator to name a few..
I get they are a business but I agree they can surely bring along the new and the established players rather than seem to alienate one side....
@@BootsontheTable My sentiments exactly. Why divide gamers when theres no reason to do so.
probably fits with warmaster 12 mm
quite possibly yes
So Warlord invents yet another proprietary scale... great. I need a new scale like I need a third nipple.
Also with the close formation honestly they'd make everything else look like a loose skirmish formation.
nope missed opportunity I think - if they would have made them larger they would have sold loads more than they are going to
@@BootsontheTable I don't agree. They've launched a unique product which is not designed to morph with 15s, 18s or whatever (so comparisons with 15s are pointless; they're not intended to be lumped into other ranges); people starting ACW anew will go for them big time - especially as Kallistra figures fit them virtually exactly, meaning you can add all sorts of bolt-on material. Price will swing many of the doubters. Napoleonic is more problematic, as there's no Kallistra producing a complementary range - so lots of bolt-on packs would be necessary ...but it is an inspired marketing initiative using the best of new technology and will soon gain its market, perhaps particularly in the States.
And I wondered why the is scale not mentioned on their page anywhere... If they chose this shady scale for commercial reasons then the outcome might be the opposite of what was intended.
It's hidden a long way into the original article but described as 15mm which they clearly are not! I think commercially these will be a big win though.... people love them it seems. For the price and ease of painting I can see why tbh. But I have lots of 15mm so they won't work
Thank you , Dom .
Welcome!