Yes, I was literally shocked at the 2nd / 3rd wave prices. That said, the Big Bundle was a great deal for the price and since alternatives exist - it is what it is. Now, if alternatives didn't exist I would be seriously annoyed. I truly can't understand what Warlord is doing here: they are literally setting prices on follow up releases that practically guarantee the loss of sales. I can't believe they don't know that Kallistra and Peter Pig are basically compatible and - what - they simply expect the consumer to buy because 'it's Warlord' regardless of the price - ?
Yep the big bundle is definitely great. I think Warlord have dropped the ball with this. If they’d opted to make a fair profit and sell the waves 2/3 at a fair price a lot more people would have jumped on board. I think they probably knew about Kallistra etc but hoped we wouldn’t and it appears are arrogant enough not to care. To be honest it’s put me off the whole thing for now. I will at some point order the extra things I need to finish it all off (not from Warlord Workshop). Such a shame as they were on to a great idea here and went and ruined it. I won’t be buying into any future so called Epic scale ideas they come up with.
I was going to start ACW in epic scale having already bought 3 Pendraken army boxes but I put them on hold as they are now over 20p per figure. I didn’t buy more because I wanted to see if the range filled out. They have started with some army commanders but all the corps commanders are needed . Getting to the crux of my problem is when I start building an army like everyone else I look at the range of figures and decide what I’m coming to use to build the army :- March attack, skirmishing, etc , but looking at the picture of battles to see what historical art Says they looked like . I’ve bought black powder 1st. Ed. and 2nd. Ed. but I’m not going to buy another book of second edition because it’s in a starter box now I wouldn’t object to the differences for epic being put in a period book on ACW because I will probably it anyway. Including buildings in starter sets with roads and rivers. However some of the sets may carry duplicate iconic buildings. I’ve seen price increases that have put me off resin cast or printed figures fragile and expensive… I don’t want to mess about cutting the figure stands into 3’s and 4’s or 5’s. One suggestion is markers or dice but that’s too much for me. The best I can think of is computer strategies where a windows pc does the work. windows 10 will be shortly unsupported some later pc’s can be upgraded but those that can’t will still run the programme which is about the same price as epic Waterloo / ACW …. £25.00 upgrades are free. You can buy a ready made army list if you don’t want to build your own but look at the website. have I bought it? Not yet. But if I buy epic and put together 2 epic bases and a command base or 1 base including command then I’ll have a 20 to 24 figure battalion in 2 ranks then I’ll be buying some figures to try it out but if I have to do any more than paint I’ll go for 15mm. 1 pc for 2 players so an old laptop is best if you have an umpire then he can do it. It runs casualties only you still have to push your own lead.
Your rant was good. Do people realise that Stallard is and was a games workshop man, to me WG are trying to become the GW for wargaming, they even have the same intials...
Exactly. He was my big boss when I worked at GW. The problem comes when following their ideas for selling stuff then you need to be making the best models in the market like GW do. But there are so many brilliant historical manufacturers that the GW model just doesn’t work. They should of stuck with affordable good value instead of cheap entry, over inflated support. It’s like they just thought of a price then doubled it and said “yep, that’ll do”
@@leont66wargaming31 , sounds about right to me... This is GW these days...many years ago a box of space marines was £9.99 good entry level, and i think the vehicles were similar £9.99...good price for Granny to buy you a box for your birthday or xmas, then they went crazy..........
Honestly, I think they're fine with the pricing. $56 for the Zouaves/Iron/Cavalry brigade expansions is more than reasonable for the people who aren't too deep into historicals. Our club is made up of university students up to old fogies and for those who want an easy entry to the US CW, these products are fine. No reason to go hunting for small companies' metal models when these are on the shelf at the local store. People are going to disagree with me, but the fact is these are[will be] readily available at more stores than any other small scale ACW models and local stores always seem price things down from the MSRP anyways.
Couldn'T agree more, mate. The starter box is so awesome. Such good value... but I honestly would rather have paid an extra 30gbp on the starter box instead of the crazy addon prices... I have a little napkin math video about this coming up tomorrow with some more thoughts :D
Awesome. I still have your unboxing on my watch list. I’ll get that watched first then watch the new one. Look forward to it. It’s such a shame because they were on to a winner here I think but ruined it with the ridiculous over priced expansions. Grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory
Being an ACW buff all my life, i must say that i am amazzed at how WG are pushing this, or selling this. Its not as if we are short of scales. already we have 54mm 40mm 28mm 18mm 10mm 6mm 2mm all in ACW..and now we have 12mm ACW.... its a funny old world out there...
Hahaha yes definitely. I would imagine they chose this scale in the hope nothing else would match it so you’d be stuck buying warlord minis. Unfortunately for them both Kallistra and Peter pig match up nicely.
I agree 100% People were acting like it was the first time ACW had been released in a small scale. The hype has been outrageous. Everyone at my local gaming group has pre ordered their starter sets. Great news for warlord obviously from a business point of view well done 👏. But I think the novelty will wear off for a lot of people especially if they are not civil buffs like me and you. I reckon 6 months down the line they'll be LOADS of these sets on ebay. ACW is my favourite period to game but I chose not to invest in this for the main reason which is I know in my heart I will never have the motivation to paint THAT many figures. I dont think many people will either. Great video LeonT66 will ne interesting to see what happens to this range. I worry that Warlord are getting too big for their boots these days. I hope I'm wrong..
Totally agree with you. I have a feeling this strategy they’re on will come back and bight them in the ass. I just can’t understand the idea behind such ridiculous price structure. It jus looks like pure greed. It’s certainly put me off the whole thing. I went for it initially because I thought the smaller scale would be better for the limited space I have to game in. Wish I’d just left it now. I think you’re right about eBay as well. If I ever decide to get anymore that’s where I’ll be looking
Thanks Dom. I wish I could get in more streams. Bloody work gets in the way most Monday nights. They had such a great idea but then dropped the ball and ruined it.
You are spot on! But there is another thing Warlord got completely wrong: the entire range of figure sets for the Epic Battle series should be colour coded like the figures in the Starter Set!!! By only having the starter set figures colour coded in blue and grey, while the expansion sets are not, they have alienated the newbees or those potential customers that for various reasons don't want to or can't paint a bucket load of tiny figures!!! And after all, for those who do want to paint their armies they can do so just aswell if the sets are colour coded! Warlord also got it completely wrong with the starter sets for the Waterloo starter sets in the Epic Battle series! A starter pack should include both sides, just like the ACW and the new Pike & Shotte series does, so you can get a game up an running quickly and to an affordable price! But with the Waterloo series you have to buy a minimum of TWO starter sets before you will be able to get your first game going! Something, given the price point for each starter set, British, French or Prussian, is extremely off-putting to anyone who want's to give Epic Battles a try but are not into the ACW or the Pike & Shotte era! CONSISTANCY!!!! It's like Warlord Games had one idea with the Epic Battle to begin with, then changed their minds (out of greed to milk more money out of their customers? Or because they stopped caring for a moment about drawing in new players into this kind of wargaming?) before changing their minds again to go back to their origina idea with the starter sets! CONSISTANCY! Stick to one path! The same goes for both the colour coded unit sets of each game series within Epic Battles, aswell as with the starter sets for all three game series!
Yep I agree. They definitely should of done a starter set including both armies for the Waterloo Epic. I actually think they missed out there by not doing it. As you said it possibly would of drawn more people in who just wanted to give it a try. I didn’t realise the expansions weren’t colour coded. I do find that strange. I wonder if the more recent ones are.? Like the Zouaves for example. They sell them as Union or Confederate. So I’d expect them to be the correct colours.? I wonder if it’s just the flag sheets that are different. It’ll be interesting to see if they are more consistent with future epic releases.
Very enjoyable video, I've never played a Wargame but I'm gonna give this ago,15mm is also new to me,so thanks for a video that has put me on a new adventure.Ive taken your advice and bought Cavalry, Artillery and commands from other 15mm manufacturers,Kallistra miniatures charged me £6 for 16 union Cavalry,I can see me getting carried away lol.Stay Safe 👍👍
A million years ago gamers like me started in the hobby with the famous ACW plastics from Airfix - 65 cents Cdn for a box of 48 infantry (20mm). At first the new Warlords' Epic line recalled that period - except Airfix sold all sets (artillery, cavalry, Union infantry. Rebel infantry) at the same price!
Very fair comments Leon and I agree entirely. It seems the starter set is to hook people and then make the real money from the follow on sets. Warlord contribute a lot to the hobby, but at the day the day it's for profit. I see no issue with them having a fair return on their outlay, but I really feel they are wrong in this instance. With all those Austrians you've painted you'll have no problem with these ACW!😁
Yep that’s how I feel about it for sure. The thing is nobody likes to feel like they’ve been ripped off but that’s how this whole thing has left many people feeling. Such a shame as they could of been into a winner with this idea and scale. They’ve really dropped the ball with shortsighted thinking. Because now if the do another one for a different time period, a lot of people are not going to buy into it. I certainly won’t
Hey man happy to see you got your Starter set. I just got mine as well I will agree the prices are just to High for what You’re getting. And the Klastra figures look pretty good. thanks this was really helpful. 👍
Nice. Glad yours has turned up. It’s a great starter set for sure. Such a shame the wave 2/3 stuff is so overpriced. They look really nice. I think a lot of people will be put off getting the resin and just swap to Kallistra now
Excellent review Leon T66. I agree 100% with you on the over-priced Zouaves and Cavalry. Unclecthulu has done exactly what you suggest and that is to use Kalistra minis. I will be following your progress on the painting of these.
Thanks Andrew. It’s such a shame. I was really looking forward to the next waves but I think Warlord have royally screwed up here. They got greedy and snatched defeat from the jaws of of victory lol. I’ll be putting in a small order of Peter Pig cavalry next month to do a comparison.
@@leont66wargaming31 I had no idea that the Warlord guys are ex Games Workshop crew. Now that I am aware it is clear. As you point out, or rather the Old Wargamer does, they need to keep shareholders happy. Also, on a different note, I loved your Landsknecht units. I do Early Italian Wars as well and have the Steelfist minis which are gorgeous.
Nice. I’ll have to take a look at them when I get back to the Landsknecht project. Yeah the 2 owners of Warlord both worked at GW when I was there. John Stollard was my Uber big boss.
I agree 100%. My copy of this just arrived and I've shelved it already because I'm not terribly interested in paying the absurd prices for the cav and dismounts that I need. I really do not like the new resin materiel that they are cast in either, if the Meade/Lee figures from this starter are a fair indication. We have to pay over metal prices for Airfix figures. I had a gut feeling that I should cancel my pre-order when I saw the prices on the 3rd wave, and should have followed it. I thought the entire point of the resin was to be able to quickly cast items with less turnaround than plastic would take and with less cost than the rising metal prices, but apparently the savings to the customer got missed out of that along the line. Guess we should have known since many of the SPQR minis were resin casts of existing minis that cost more than the metal counterparts. And SPQR deserves a rant of it's own with Warlord trying to get us to buy more crap to get a free new edition rulebook. I'm also pretty annoyed by them removing the free special figures from the rulebooks, as that was about the only reason to ever by a book from them directly.
I feel the same way. I can’t find any enthusiasm to actually start painting my starter box. I’ve just put it away out of sight. Your thoughts on using resin over metal match mine exactly. The whole point of using the resin was to lower production prices but they appear to have increased then instead. It just doesn’t make any sense at all. The rule book’s not having the metal figures anymore is another great example of where things are going the wrong way. Warlord started out selling things at good prices to get people into historical Wargaming. Now they’re becoming the GW of historical’s. The whole thing is putting me off warlord altogether
I got my box starter and a brigade box plus the 3x issues of WI . I figured they would have a ridiculous price on other units so I backed 3D files and I had kalistra ACW .
Excellent content and completely agree with your - 'rant at the end'! I went all in on the Big Bundle and received it this past week here in the US. Great value for the money! I started checking the 2nd / 3rd wave releases: nice but ridiculously overpriced! I understand that resin casting is much more labor intensive (as a manufacturing process) but these prices are a non-starter especially since other options are readily available.
Thanks J P. Yep totally. It’s a shame because if they’d of kept the prices reasonable they’d of got a lot more sales. Now like us most people will just use alternatives.
Thanks Martin. If I’d of known about how ridiculous the waves 2/3 prices would be I’d of never bought the starter set in the first place. It’s killed any enthusiasm I had for the project
I was shocked about the expansion prices as well. The starter set is perfect but that is where I am going to stop and look elsewhere to fill out the rest of the miniatures. It really was shocking for us when we saw the expansion prices because our gaming group was going to do a lot with these kits. All well. Great video as always mate.
Thanks buddy. Same here, I was really looking forward to the next waves but the crazy prices have put me off the whole thing. I kinda wish I’d cancelled my pre order and given the whole thing a miss. Warlord have seriously dropped the ball with this. If they continue with this market strategy I think it will come back and bite them in the ass
@@leont66wargaming31 I totally agree. We have reviewed the box set as well before we knew about wave 2 and were a little upset with what is the trend at warlord with prices. The box starter is perfect but man the wave 2 is just untouchable for the price so the starter will have to do for us. I still want to have you on the show with us sometime. Don't be a stranger. Cheers
I think I might get the Zouaves if I can find them cheap enough, just so all my infantry looks the same. I won’t be getting anything else from Warlord though. Would love to come on the show mate. I have 2 weeks off starting 29th if this month. So it’d be easier for me to come on during that time
Agreed the Zouaves would be the best choice if you can get them cheap enough. Sounds good we will make it happen to have you on the show. Will contact u soon about specifics.
Nice update Leon, have to agree with you on the pricing, Its ridiculous. I pay tenner for 36 printed figures and superb quality, ACW in that scale is not for me personally, but i'll look forward to seeing your progress on them mate
Going by the side by side comparison I've seen, Epic scale falls between Peter Pig (larger) and Kallistra (slightly smaller). However, in my opinion Kallistra is the most compatible and it will supply you with FOUR limbers plus '6-horse' teams and 4 guns for your £12! As you say, it's a no brainer.
when you can get a 13.5mm limber for epic or a 28mm limber from perry for about the same cost.... and I really don't get the unit sizing but as you say each to their own
I understand the frustration with such high prices however i find myself more frustrated with the people who will pay these prices thus allowing warlord to justify them. Also its cheaper to buy from distributors as opposed to warlord directly
Yeah good point. Hopefully Warlord will come to reason or it’ll end any future releases in this scale. If I was to buy any waves 2/3 it’d be from a 3rd party retailer but even with 20% off it’s still playing into Warlord’s hands. Giving them sales for over inflated prices
Great box set and fair points about waves 2 and 3. Thanks for recommending 15mm ACW miniatures by Kallistra and Peter Pig. You should do a video comparing the miniatures side by side with each other and with Warlord’s.
You know, before I thought about buying this boxed set I though I'd wait and see what the additions would be like. It's warlord workshop after all so lets be careful. I'm glad I did. First they seem reluctant to mention scale on the announcements then finally call it '15' mm when it's not. Same old WG chicanery right from the start. Next they get you to order as quickly as possible with tempting offers before you realise these won't fit your existing 15mms. They make sure the scale is now so odd that you will be stuck and can only buy compatible figures from them. They get you all hooked with the pre orders first and only THEN announce the insane prices of the second and third waves when it's too late. I'm sorry this isn't just good enough. This is pure greed and I feel as though WG has behaved in a very devious manner. Thank goodness for Kalistra and Peter pig who have come to the rescue of many epic ACW projects. I will not be buying any more WG products out of principle.
I wish I’d done the same. They’ve really missed out here I think. Instead of making waves 2-3 a massive success they’ve just alienated most people. This will have the knock on effect for any future releases as well. Very stupid if anyone cares what I think.
Thanks for the review Leon, I Completely agree on this, I wanted to use this box set to introduce my daughter to gaming, now a 12yr old girl playing historical wargames is something of a rarity but for some reason she really enjoyed painting the free figs we got with WI and enjoyed the simple game we played through with them (never seen so many sixes in my life😂) however when the prices of all the extra stuff like cav etc came out i completely choked, warlord games have become a rip off over the past years starting with the downsizing of figures in thier boxes and charging the same price !! Sad to see this shoddy practice, now my daughter is painting 6mm adler napoleonic and happier for it, as is my wallet 😁
Haha very nice. 6mm is a bit small for me. That is certainly rare indeed. Some fantastic father daughter time. It’s a shame Warlord messed this up so badly. Now I think it will ruin any future releases they were planning. Such a pity.
I completely agree with you and while I love the quality of the Warlord sculpts, I do feel as though the prices are a bit steep on the resin stuff. 25% less would have been much more appealing to me. I will certainly still be purchasing some, but not as much as I would have with lower pricing. Kallistra is going to get a lot of business I think. Looking forward to seeing how well Peter Pig sculpts match up.
I will probably get the Zouaves just so they look the same as the rest of my infantry but I’ll get them from a retailer offering a discount. For everything else I’ll just use Kallistra and if Peter Pig match up I’ll use them as well.
Single warlord boxes are maybe too expensive but their starter sets are great, not just for Black Powder. Using this 13,5mm scale might be very comercial but if you just have 28mm it's a good way to start another scale.
I agree. The starter sets are brilliant. The problem is the small boxes for this are ridiculous. It’s a fantastic way to start a new scale and get some great, big battles going but I feel they’ve priced themselves out of the market with the expansions. Should of made them cheaper because now most people will look for alternatives
Mine arrived today. Totally agree starter set is real value but they have shot themselves in the foot with the expansions...kalistra must be rubbing their hands together
Nice. It’s a great set isn’t it. Such a shame Warlord messed this up. I was really looking forward to the expansions. Yep Kallistra and Peter Pig are going to make a bit of money off this now lol
I really like the starterset and the plastic miniatures. Nevermind the design fail of using the same sprue for union and confederate. But the price of the 2. and 3. release wace is just insane. At the german Warlord facebook page the thold us that they used their resin (which I hate) because of the lower production costs compared to plastic. But they had to increase the price per Box because they expect people to buy less of them. Thanks fpr sharing your video with us.
I have heard them use this argument on Facebook. Saying that it’s really expensive to produce. I don’t buy that. If it’s so expensive to make then why not just use metal? They use resin because it’s cheap but they seem to have forgotten to pass the savings on to the customer. Hate to say it but it’s just greed and I think it’s backfired on them.
Spot on Leon, price point does seem odd? I’ve got 10mm and 28mm so luckily non starter for me. I could see Peter Pig and Kallistra picking up some extra business 😏
You are spot on with your assessment, the starter set is tremendous value and well worth the price. However the expansions are all over the place price wise and to be honest I cannot see then selling well ata ll, which might be the death knell for this epic scale, at least for Warlord. My biggest beef the outrageous pricing on extra command stand, it is almost as cheap to but brigade boxes,,,but more on that in a minute. The good news is that there are alternatives out there and using these with the Warolrd stuff is the way to go First of all copy and print your flag sheets, save the originals, save a penny here while you can Obvious really but first up is Kallistra Miniatures which are slightly smaller and a bit bulkier but when viewed from a distance the mixed units look very much the same - I have used mountboard shims to raise the height on some early mixed figures but it is not really necessary. Must buys are the command packs but give more flexibility to the starter set, two at a minimum - you probably will want more. What I have planned is to use mostly warlord strips for the Union with just few mixed stands , probaly adding nine of the twelve reb ones. Easy conversion, cut out the central three or four figures - Do not throw these away - and add kallistra models. Generally the reb used only one standard hence the swap, but same method is used Next up four packs of kallistra zouaves and two Iron Brigade. Mount these on the spare warlord bases and you will have enough 6 zouave and 4 IB - mount two ranks of eight. Finally to round things out two of each cavavly /dismounted cavavly packs. Again mount these on the warlord base, my way is to mount both dismounted and mounted on the same base and use a marker to denote status, as it give me flexibility and more bankg for my buck. If you make use of kallistra's offer this comes in at £60 plus postage. However if you wallet can stand the strain consider getting another six packs of assorted infantry ( I already had another two command and one of each firing and advancing. These extra figures with the one you cut to make the extra command strips, can be used to make additional bases - I plan on around 18 bases from every three sprues rather than 15. A much better route than nearer £200 lus by going to Warlord I have also dug out my pendraken 10mm miniatures , simply because I wanted to have zouaves with turbans and am too lazy to start converting yet, the bonus was finding some rebs wearing straw hats - ideal to be incorporated into my planned Wheat's Louisiana brigade. Okay there is a marked height difference so mixing at first glance is a no no, but on the plus side this models are slimmer and in this way are a decent match to warlords offering. However, plan is to keep these on their own bases which will be doubled mount board, which hopefully given the basing colours is similar accross the board shou;d hide the height difference. My own little rant is that warlord have been a bit lazy ruleswise and in effect have not given us new "epic" rules but a fudge of BP2, which means big tables which many of us do not have. So I am going with the 3 base to a regiment/brigade dependent on the battle being fought and if necessary count a single base as one , two , three or whatever stands as required Sorry about the length of the post but hopefully is has a few pointers Had a thought any 12mm acw 3d printed miniatures out there, I am sure I saw some STL files up for sale?
Good points one and all mate. I’ve actually already done a video where I convert some of the plastic warlord minis and put Kallistra minis in. I too raised them up on a bit of card but as you say it’s not really necessary. I was thinking of getting the warlord Zouaves but I think I’ll just get the Kallistra ones. I have put a small order in with Peter Pig to see how they match up. I’ve heard they’re quite a good comparison and still cheaper than warlord. I don’t have a 3D printer which is a shame as a guy on Facebook was doing a Kickstarter and offered me some off his files to review. Check out Walkabout games TH-cam channel. He hasn’t posted in a while but if you leave him a comment about 3D ACW I’m sure he’ll get back to you. He definitely has 3D files for this. His name is Chris
@@leont66wargaming31 Thanks for the reply. Looked at Peter Pig and they are lovely figures but just a tad too big and bulkier, so look a little odd when mixed in - at least to me. Plus the cost of PP packs needs to be factored in as well. The starter set sprues were given a rough base coat last night, no real finesse more a heavy dry brush with a one inch paintbrush and so painting in earnest started today, but something occurred to me. I had not really planned to use the mounted officer base, as I tend to use wooden discs so I had these 48 (24 a side) unused bases and then the light bulb went on. Rather than my plan to cut some infantry bases up to get a bit of flexibility, why not use these. What I am looking at is using at least one per sprue to become a command stand using the kallistra models, so following the plan for 3 stand unit , this give me one 3 base unit and a slightly smaller two base plus command per sprue I also have been playing around with sources for building etc. Peter Dennis's Paperboys books provide some excellent terrain pieces, including bridges and river (trees to if you have a mind to) simply reduce thenm by 50%. Also check out the 6mmacw site (Altar of Freedom) who have a lot of free stuff, including gettysburg landmarks, the reverse is true for these double the size
You can take the man out of games workshop, but you cant take games workshop out of the man i.e John stallard. Its the old loss leader, draw them in and then hit them with the expansions. Warlord make fantastic ranges and support them well and at the end of the day they are a business and have to turn a profit, its just how you go about it more so in times when peoples jobs are going and they still look to their hobby to escape modern day pressures. Love the channel by the way.
Thanks Nick. Haha yep there it is. The GW market strategy. I can’t help but feel warlord have really dropped the ball with this. They’d of turned a better profit with high volume. Now all they’ve done is make people feel like they’re being ripped off and nobody likes that feeling.
Seems like a very fair assessment Leon, those prices are way steep! Wonder if WG has plans to buy out Kallistra next? If I was doing this as a project I would definitely buy all my extras from Kallistra.
Lol. Yes that’d be interesting. Kallistra will be making more money from this now lol. Yes I’ll be getting all my extra bits from Kallistra and I’ve just put in a little order from Peter Pig as I’ve heard they’re a good match and have great sculpts. @Pbeccas has a 15mm ACW Peter Pig army. He loves them.
I RECEIVED MINE ...THEY GAVE ME TWO BRIGADES TWO BOXES FOR FREE ....BUT YA I CANT SPEND THAT MONEY THANKS FOR THIS When they came out i could not undrestand .....why so much.....u r right....BUDDY I COULD NOT GO ON I MIGHT SELL MINE SO UPSET ABOUT PEICE BUT NOW I CAN BUY FROM OTHER ....
That was nice of them I guess. But even still it doesn’t make up for the ridiculous prices they’re charging for the add on stuff. I was tempted to sell mine as well but I’ll just order some bits from Kallistra and then call it a day
@@leont66wargaming31 YES SAME HERE I HAVE A BATTLE BOX OF 28MM I MIGHT PUT TOGETHER AND A ROKES DRIFT LOL....SELL I MIGHT ON MY E BAY .... THIS NOT HAPPY WAR LORD PRICE IS WAY TO MUCH .. I HAVE OVER A 1000 TO SHOW LEARNING TO MAKE A VID MY WIFE ALWAYS DID IT FOR ME BUT HAVE ALOT TO SHOW N WELL SOON ..... PS HOPE TO VISIT SOON I HAVE FIRST SHOT 2ND APRIL 3RD THEN DONE....I HOPE WHAT A YEAR ... BUT WILL MAKE THE MOST OF IT....C U SOON BUDDY
I'll be buying a few boxes, but really just to support my local gaming store and maintain goodwill than anything else. Maybe half Warlord from the store and half Kallistra weborder.
At least you’ll hopefully be getting a discount from your local store. Might make the box prices a bit more palatable. I might get some Zouaves just so my infantry units look the same but I’ll use other manufacturers for everything else
Do you think/know if the Glory Hallelujah supplement is useful/has much need since this set comes with an ACW booklet. I know the included book is much smaller in page count but quantity doesnt always mean quality
Who knows where Warlord thinks they’re going with their prices? The price rises happened for us on the dark side of the globe pre covid. Prices shot up 30-40% over night when they changed the website. The free shipping bar went from about ¥7000 to almost ¥30000 just recently. I’ve gone over to other manufacturers and buying any Warlord stuff off of eBay. Thankfully, historical collections can be used for any game pretty much and you aren’t married to a set of rules. They appear to be mimicking GW around 1991 issuing all these new games with big fanfare and then they just fade away into the past. I think foundry and Perry’s have the right tortoise approach and understand their customers better. My $0.02
Totally agree mate. They think they can copy GW market strategy. The trouble is they don’t make the same quality of miniatures as GW. Plus as you say with historical minis you’re free to use any manufacturer out there. I think they thought they had the market cornered with their odd scale so could charge whatever the hell they wanted. Unlucky for them there’s alternative minis one can use. They really dropped the ball with this I think. They could easily have sold loads of the next wave stuff if it’d of been at a reasonable price. Instead they’ve just pissed people off so much that they’ll lose custom over it.
Yes, interesting times we are living through. Since SARS-COV 2 stagnated our countries, WL games has seen fit to again raise prices. A full 25% price hike (if not more) over the past six months (or thereabouts). I suspect the demand for WL games products has increased exponentially since these quarantines were enacted. Thus, supply and demand changes invariably affect pricing. As you folks have alluded to, we have other miniature companies to use (thankfully).
I think this could come back to haunt them. All these price hikes. They need to remember there are many more companies out there doing it better than them. Victrix. Perry’s just to name a couple. It’s put me of Warlord Workshop for a while
Missed this video first time around. Must admit, I hadn’t been following this game closely but I did notice the price of the starter set and though it was pretty reasonable. But the price of the add-one is absolutely mad. Not quite on the European Super League scale of greed but definitely in that area. They really don’t deserve to sell any but I’m sure they will. It’s Warlord and people seem to buy their stuff whatever they do.
Thanks Jim. They’ve dropped the ball with this. If they’d kept the add insult at a reasonable price a lot more people would of bought into it. More importantly though this greed will hurt them if they were planning future releases for other periods
I completely agree with you mate, the starter box is good value, but the extra waves prices are way too high. It’s seems Warlord are using GWs pricing structure with these. I was excited when Warlord announced this project until I seen the awkward size, that put me off and now with these prices I can see others not getting involved. Shame really as it did have great potential. Hope your well mate and I look forward to seeing your progress on these 😁👍
I’m good thanks mate. Best wishes to you and the family. Warlord have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. 🤣. Such a shame as they were on to a real winner. Still Kallistra and Peter Pig will be happy 😃
Thanks buddy. It just seems crazy doesn’t it. Here’s such a great product and concept but in waves 2/3 we’re just going to over price everything and screw up our great idea. Madness
Warlord have always wanted to be GW...and they're just assuming they can charge GW prices. On the plus side, Warlord games often fail and you can find them at discount on bulk distributors within a year or two - so maybe the starter box will be a cheap way in - then fill with Kalistra (apparently the scales match). So just use Warlord for the mass figures.
I won't be buying a ton of the expansions but for those of us across the pond the shipping on kalistra brings the price more in line with warlord and the warlord sculpts seem a lot better in the previews particularly the skirmishers.
Yeah I really like the sculpts on the expansions. Not the Iron brigade so much but all the others are great. Just over priced. But as you say, you don’t really need all the add on’s. There’s plenty to play with just from the box. Maybe blue moon or old glory in the US would be a good match?
Here in the states shipping was not that bad for Kallistra. Already picked up mounted and Dismounted cav, limbers, dead, Black hats, and extra command figs. Also not happy with their cav basing using infantry stands (understand they are making the base sprue fit them). Use arty bases turned sideways and mounting 4 figs. Gives them a footprint more in line with Napoleons battles. Did have to get metal bases for them though because there are nowhere near enough bases on the sprues. Base game is awesome, comes out to $5 a sprue (at full retail) plus free extras. Box sets are Better then $10 a sprue that likely cost them a buck or two to make. Far cheaper then Kallistra per fig but still way overpriced. Most hobby shops will be giving a 10 to 20% discount on the pre order and some will keep it up to make sales on the seriously overpriced kicker boxes. Fully suspect they will sell a lot of starter boxes, have a early rush on Brigade boxes, then people will wake up and realize they get twice as many figs buying a second starter. Add in more buildings and it is a much better deal.
Excellent mate. I think you’re spot on with that analysis. I was thinking of adding a 2nd starter box once I’ve got these painted. Lots of 3rd party offering 20% off. I’ll use warbases for the cavalry bases I think. I agree they’ll look better being a bit bigger.
I'm new to the whole thing and I'm having a hard time paying the $100 for my first starter set... I see the value in it but jeez it's crazy to pay that for little plastic (mind you the most I've paid for any of my car models it $10)
I get that, maybe try getting a single sprue from Ebay or somewhere first, before committing to the starter set. See how you get on with it. Getting that first unit done will hopefully inspire you to carry on. The starter sets are great value. Sometimes they turn up on eBay at reduced prices too
It is the same thing they did with SPQR. I bought the starter, because I liked the models, and they were a good price. I then looked at the expansions and went "oh hells no."
Great video :) I agree with the rant about the expansion prices, I think they have nailed the base boxes to get people into the scale and game but to whack the price up for the other box sets is a slap in The face, I understand they are resin but still they should of tried to produce a box set with a realistic price
Thanks Matt. Exactly. They’ve priced themselves out of the market with these ridiculous over inflated prices. If they’d of kept them at a reasonable level a lot more people would of got them. Now most people will just get Kallistra or Peter pig or something. Bit of a shame really
@@leont66wargaming31 it’s a shame as I think they were heading in the right direction for a impressive range which they have endless possibilities for expansion but instead it come across to me as a way to grab more money. I think they’ve been paying a lot of attention to GWs business plans ha. But I must say I’m still really interested in this new range even if I just find myself picking up the affordable plastic infantry sets
I agree mate. I was really looking forward to getting the expansions. Still and all the starter set is brilliant and I’ll just use Kallistra and/or Peter Pig for the other bits. I think Warlord have made a big mistake with the prices. They’re definitely on the GW band wagon. The owner was my big boss at GW when I worked for them.
@@KingMATTtheSuperior Have to agree on the business plan. They are getting more and more into the WG pricing game. Sadly that is why a lot of us bailed on them years ago. If they do the BFG/Warmaster/Inqusition catch and release trick on this and drop it in a year or so we know they are following the same model that burned a lot of us on GW a generation ago. Be interesting to see how long they support Cruel seas/Black seas/Blood red sky before abandoning them.
@@shadowcat3163 I understand as a company they want to make money but anyone who understands Wargamers will know that we are all just itching to spend our money! I feel like this new epic black powder has traction it just depends how they handle the releases of any future acw or other eras like napoleonics. I feel at this scale if they keep it “cheap and cheerful” it’s going to perform a lot better than very expensive resin.
hi leon im not interested in gaming acw or purchasing any of the models but still enjoy seeing the minis and things but i think you are absolutely correct in the fact they have priced these box sets completely wrong, and showing what other retailers have to offer it really is as you said a no brainer to go elsewhere if your after wargaming that period. why would anyone in there right mind pay £40 for something you can get somewhere else for £15 its less than half the price its crazy and such a shame from warlord, i think they are trying to take advantage of their name as they are probably the biggest historical model company, please tell me if im wrong as im guessing and they are just thinking people will blindly buy there products. i have seen a few comments saying they are becoming like games workshop and i really hope that is not the case as the main reason i stopped playing warhammer 40k was the price of the models as for 16 year old at college at the time or even a adult i just couldnt afford there price range so i hope warlord dont end up down the same road as they will end up driving people away from the hobby sadly. all the best and great video thanks for sharing and showing price comparison very enlightening
Yep same here Chris. I was playing 40k and I have a Dark eldar army. The meta was constantly changing. I’d already invested about £400 into it and realised to be competitive I needed at least another £300 of minis. That ended it for me. I fear that’s where Warlord are heading, which will be a great shame as they started off so well. This epic idea was such a great one but now with the crazy add on prices it’s ruined it. I wish I’d never got the starter box at all now. Should’ve just got another Perry’s battle in a box set instead
@@leont66wargaming31 it's a shame that you wish you didn't purchase it now but maybe you can sell the minis once have put them together if you still feel that way, its sad that the add on boxes are so expensive as the starter seems like a good box, maybe if you want to stick with it can get the add on bits from the different companies but something for the future I guess. Love the Austrians and looking forward to seeing them and some more oathmark as well
Thanks mate. I’m just a bit disappointed with it all at the moment. When I get over it I’ll get round to painting them. I’ll just get all the extra bits I need from Kallistra. There’s no hurry now. Got a gazillion Austrians to do and nearly as much Oathmark lol. So I’ll crack on with them instead. Lost my mojo the last couple of weeks and haven’t painted anything. Hopefully tomorrow I’ll get some motivation
Don't you get flashbacks to when games workshop got a hold on the market with the fantasy and what happened the prices started to rise and rise to the point where most of us history people will now not even glance at them , I just hope that warlord are not going down the same street cause they will lose out as there are other companies were we will go to quite happily. Take care Terry
Yep absolutely. The thing is, love em or hate them GW make some of the best miniatures on the market. Warlord don’t. There’s a whole host of companies that make better minis. They’ve dropped the ball on this one. Such a shame as they were on to a winner
I know a few people that play it, but as to buying more than the starter set. I think people would of done had they been more affordable. The starter set is a great way to start a new project and then carry it in once you’ve had a few games and enjoyed it. Trouble now is people will look at and quickly work out the overall all cost and say no thanks. If I wanted to spend that kind of money I’d of kept on playing 40k lol
Completly agree with the rant. At half the price the expansions would still be expensive for what they are but more competativly priced and would probably sell. The minis look great but the warlord resin ive had can be hit and miss on quality, its a cheap material being sold at a premium. I like warlord but it feels like there on a slippery slope, over pricing when there are so many competitors who offer as good or better products. Stallards GW background is showing its ugly head.
Totally agree with you James. Probably the vast majority of my minis are Warlord. Bolt action and Napoleonic. I feel they’ve made a big error here. Such a shame as I was really looking forward to the additional waves. Just left a GW sour taste now lol
The new boys on the block will be 3D resin which will knock WG out of the running before long. Check out all the aftermarket Warhammer stuff coming out just outstanding stuff in the same scale. WG will get a hiding in the end. Starter box is good value that's about it.
Hi mate. The AB range is too big to match well with the Epic range. I’ve found the best comparisons are Kallistra for the infantry and artillery and Peter Pig for the cavalry
Nothing that I can see. As I said in the video I think the starter set is absolutely brilliant. The cost of the support waves however is crazy. They’ve priced themselves out. Most people will now buy alternatives. I was really looking forward to the add ons. But there’s no way I’ll be getting them now. I’ll just use Kallistra and/or Peter Pig.
Definitely worth getting the starter set. If you shop around you can get between 10-20% off rrp. For all the extra bits just use different manufacturers. Kallistra and Peter Pig seem to be the closest in scale
Hi Leon, lovely little snack 😆. More fantastic work, well done. Would you be interested in some 6mm Grumblerminiatures? I can send you some samples if you want?
I am most upset about the Kepi Hats which are lacking for the Union and the backpacks lacking for union if union had no packs at all it would have been better
Warlord is a business and have bills to pay, employees, etc. I have no idea what their operating costs are, and perhaps they’ve taken a bit of a hit on the “great deals” of the starter sets. 🤷🏻♂️ If the expansion packs are too expensive for your wallet, don’t buy them and fill in your armies with Peter Pig, etc. Perhaps at some point the cost will then come down, but I don’t want them going out of business over it. It’s a few quid on a one time purchase. The cost of a pint or two that I won’t be pissing away. Not a big deal to me. Keep in mind also, they eat shipping costs on most of their sales. Factor that in to your cost.
I don’t object to Warlord making a profit one bit. Probably 70% off my historical minis are from Warlord. What I object to is being blatantly ripped off. It’s like when you go to the cinema. You can get great offers on the tickets. Often 2 for 1. But when you go to buy a coke and a hotdog you pay ridiculous price. Why? Because you’re a captive audience. That’s where Warlord went with this. If you think that’s except-able then cool that’s ok. I can live with people having different opinions to me. (Maybe not that badge though lol). Actual production costs are something I know quite a lot about. I’ve seen some posts on Facebook where Warlord claim they don’t make much money from the starter sets and I don’t buy a word of it. I can pretty accurately calculate the cost of said box. As I can with the waves 2/3 stuff. I don’t want to see them go out of business. What I would like is for them not to take advantage of their customers and make a fair profit. Had they done this they would of benefited a lot more. So for me I’d rather have a couple of pints with my mates than not be able to afford to go out because warlord ripped me off.
Leon T66 wargaming You have an entirely different definition of being “ripped off” than I do. Choosing to pay a certain amount of money for something is not that definition. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. Again, Warlord paid shipping cost in that big heavy box they just shipped to me across the Atlantic. If you spend $50 (and it’s rare if you don’t) on their site, shipping is free. Add it up. That’s quite a few quid right there.
Well I have to say that is very good of them. And also their customer service is great. Any problem with a order or product is sorted out quickly and without fuss. There are a lot of things they do really well. As I said before I have loads of warlord minis. I just think they dropped the ball with this. This whole epic scale thing was and is such a great idea. They could of took this and run with it for years. Going forward when they start to do other periods in this scale I think that the add on prices from this ACW range will put people off. It’s such a shame as it was a real winner. We’ll have to agree to disagree about the price point for the waves 2/3 but if you read through the comments you’ll find most people think the same as me. All that being said. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about it
Anybody try to put that barn shaped house together? It was Devilish. Directions give parts a number but parts have no numbers on them. Took me two hours. I would like to get the cemetery gate and Lutheran Seminary but fear the complexity.
Probably why they keep offering 10% discounts to try and lure you in! It’s a shame what they’ve done with the prices, will be getting all my wave 2/3 from Kallistra.
@@leont66wargaming31 looking forward to the future comparison video! I wonder if warlord will start selling the bases or if it’s worth moving MdF ones now
@@leont66wargaming31 that’s a good shout, from my recollection the infantry sprues have a spare base right? Might be enough on there to start my dismounted cav at least
That’s why they went for 13.5mm models. Now people won’t be able to mix and can’t escape those 40£ sets. They’ve been doing this in other stuff, as Victory at Sea and Black Seas, where they put idiotic scales in so that it’s almost exclusive to them. I was holding out to see what more would they do in this faux Epic system, but not anymore.
Yep exactly. At least you can use Kallistra alongside this ACW stuff. It’s such a shame as now when they do/if they do any other periods people won’t buy into it because they know the add on’s will be ridiculously overpriced
Resin and metal still in the expansions? Seriously? It's 2021, not 1994 and Warlord is a big player, not a couple of blokes in a shed. They still insist on these outdated materials. Starter set looks fantastic, but metal and resin always puts me off investing in new miniature ranges. First company that does all plastic in any scale gets my money.
Dear guys, for such prices, I’d go 28mm! 😂 Moreover WG could have made confederate and union specific sprues. They are just the same. They changed only the color of the plastic, disappointing
Yes definitely. Just looking at the comments on this video tells a story. I’d say over 90% would of bought the add in at a reasonable price but now aren’t going to touch them. A huge mistake in marketing by Warlord
I hate how are the prices are so insane and that the Union soldiers most of them have hats on instead of the caps on I think they just used the same plastic model and made it blue and called it a day.
Its stallard with his games workshop mentality thinking the prices are good,I only need two units of zouaves one for each side and only one regiment of iron brigade,the cavalry I will properly get but only one box and one box of dismounted but even then the cost is annoying so will be a couple of months apart to justify spending that.
Definitely. I think the only thing I might get are the Zouaves. Just so they match with the rest of the infantry. Everything else will be from other manufacturers
@@leont66wargaming31 Yeah, Union are dull to paint. The only thing duller is 150 Zulus. At least with the Confeds you can vary the uniforms a bit and fight about what color butternut really was.
Wow what a rip, its no wonder ive fell out with wargames and have gone to one cost board games warlord workshop at its best, must have borrowed the finecast machine lol.
Warlord are catching up on missing funds somewhere -as in the expansion sets . They must be leeching cash out for the starter sets . Warlord , lets hear from you ?? In the end Leon , you pushing ahead with doing them now ?
Firstly thanks for the info on the Austrians. I managed to save it before TH-cam deleted your comment. They do hate people posting links lol. I think the higher management all had eyes on new yachts and cruising around the Bahama’s but instead its going to be a rubber ring in a paddling pool. I’m not very enthusiastic about it all now. It’s really put me off the whole thing. Nobody likes to feel like they’re being ripped off and that’s the feeling I’m left with. I think in the end I’ll just buy the additional stuff from Kallistra and call it a day when that’s done. Won’t be expanding any further than that.
@@leont66wargaming31 yeh i picked up that sentiment just at the end ! I'm sure if you on sell it or make it a prize for your yt blog someone will be happy ( I didnt know about the deleting links , hope theres something to be useful in there )
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Agreed the price is bonkers. And here in France we have all the dispatch costs on top of the resin prices.
And as you said its only resin!!
Crazy isn’t it. They were on to a winner and really dropped the ball with this.
Maybe your local retailer has a better offer? All german onlieshops sell the sets with a good discount.
Yeah local retailers will probably give you 20% off but it’s still annoying that they’re so expensive in the first place lol
I suspect many people would not have bought the starter set if they knew these expansions were going to be so outrageously priced.
Absolutely Rick. I know I wouldn’t
It is why I waited and don't preorder starter.
Yep. I wish I hadn’t pre ordered either. Something I rarely do. Won’t be doing it again, that’s for sure
Yes, I was literally shocked at the 2nd / 3rd wave prices.
That said, the Big Bundle was a great deal for the price and since alternatives exist - it is what it is.
Now, if alternatives didn't exist I would be seriously annoyed.
I truly can't understand what Warlord is doing here: they are literally setting prices on follow up releases that practically guarantee the loss of sales.
I can't believe they don't know that Kallistra and Peter Pig are basically compatible and - what - they simply expect the consumer to buy because 'it's Warlord' regardless of the price - ?
Yep the big bundle is definitely great. I think Warlord have dropped the ball with this. If they’d opted to make a fair profit and sell the waves 2/3 at a fair price a lot more people would have jumped on board.
I think they probably knew about Kallistra etc but hoped we wouldn’t and it appears are arrogant enough not to care.
To be honest it’s put me off the whole thing for now. I will at some point order the extra things I need to finish it all off (not from Warlord Workshop).
Such a shame as they were on to a great idea here and went and ruined it. I won’t be buying into any future so called Epic scale ideas they come up with.
I have left feedback on the Warlord forum about these ridiculous prices. I suggest others do the same so that Warlord get the message!
Great idea Peter
I was going to start ACW in epic scale having already bought 3 Pendraken army boxes but I put them on hold as they are now over 20p per figure.
I didn’t buy more because I wanted to see if the range filled out.
They have started with some army commanders but all the corps commanders are needed .
Getting to the crux of my problem is when I start building an army like everyone else I look at the range of figures and decide what I’m coming to use to build the army :-
March attack, skirmishing, etc , but looking at the picture of battles to see what historical art Says they looked like .
I’ve bought black powder 1st. Ed. and 2nd. Ed. but I’m not going to buy another book of second edition because it’s in a starter box now I wouldn’t object to the differences for epic being put in a period book on ACW because I will probably it anyway. Including buildings in starter sets with roads and rivers.
However some of the sets may carry duplicate iconic buildings.
I’ve seen price increases that have put me off resin cast or printed figures fragile and expensive…
I don’t want to mess about cutting the figure stands into 3’s and 4’s or 5’s.
One suggestion is markers or dice but that’s too much for me.
The best I can think of is computer strategies where a windows pc does the work. windows 10 will be shortly unsupported some later pc’s can be upgraded but those that can’t will still run the programme which is about the same price as epic Waterloo / ACW …. £25.00 upgrades are free. You can buy a ready made army list if you don’t want to build your own but look at the website. have I bought it? Not yet.
But if I buy epic and put together 2 epic bases and a command base or 1 base including command then I’ll have a 20 to 24 figure battalion in 2 ranks then I’ll be buying some figures to try it out but if I have to do any more than paint I’ll go for 15mm. 1 pc for 2 players so an old laptop is best if you have an umpire then he can do it. It runs casualties only you still have to push your own lead.
Your rant was good. Do people realise that Stallard is and was a games workshop man, to me WG are trying to become the GW for wargaming, they even have the same intials...
Exactly. He was my big boss when I worked at GW. The problem comes when following their ideas for selling stuff then you need to be making the best models in the market like GW do. But there are so many brilliant historical manufacturers that the GW model just doesn’t work. They should of stuck with affordable good value instead of cheap entry, over inflated support. It’s like they just thought of a price then doubled it and said “yep, that’ll do”
@@leont66wargaming31 , sounds about right to me... This is GW these days...many years ago a box of space marines was £9.99 good entry level, and i think the vehicles were similar £9.99...good price for Granny to buy you a box for your birthday or xmas, then they went crazy..........
Yep definitely. I miss the days when GW were all about the hobby instead of all about the shareholders
I totally agree warlord workshop I call them.
Hahaha yes Anthony. That they are. Genius lol.
Honestly, I think they're fine with the pricing. $56 for the Zouaves/Iron/Cavalry brigade expansions is more than reasonable for the people who aren't too deep into historicals. Our club is made up of university students up to old fogies and for those who want an easy entry to the US CW, these products are fine. No reason to go hunting for small companies' metal models when these are on the shelf at the local store. People are going to disagree with me, but the fact is these are[will be] readily available at more stores than any other small scale ACW models and local stores always seem price things down from the MSRP anyways.
Thanks for the comment buddy. Hey that’s life right. Not everyone has to agree with everything. I have no problem with that.
Couldn'T agree more, mate. The starter box is so awesome. Such good value... but I honestly would rather have paid an extra 30gbp on the starter box instead of the crazy addon prices... I have a little napkin math video about this coming up tomorrow with some more thoughts :D
Awesome. I still have your unboxing on my watch list. I’ll get that watched first then watch the new one. Look forward to it.
It’s such a shame because they were on to a winner here I think but ruined it with the ridiculous over priced expansions.
Grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory
Being an ACW buff all my life, i must say that i am amazzed at how WG are pushing this, or selling this. Its not as if we are short of scales. already we have 54mm 40mm 28mm 18mm 10mm 6mm 2mm all in ACW..and now we have 12mm ACW.... its a funny old world out there...
Hahaha yes definitely. I would imagine they chose this scale in the hope nothing else would match it so you’d be stuck buying warlord minis. Unfortunately for them both Kallistra and Peter pig match up nicely.
@@leont66wargaming31 , exactly, your point about the costings for add on's was to the point.
It’s such a shame. They were on to a winner with this but looks like they’ve now snatched defeat from the jaws of victory
I agree 100%
People were acting like it was the first time ACW had been released in a small scale. The hype has been outrageous. Everyone at my local gaming group has pre ordered their starter sets. Great news for warlord obviously from a business point of view well done 👏. But I think the novelty will wear off for a lot of people especially if they are not civil buffs like me and you. I reckon 6 months down the line they'll be LOADS of these sets on ebay. ACW is my favourite period to game but I chose not to invest in this for the main reason which is I know in my heart I will never have the motivation to paint THAT many figures. I dont think many people will either. Great video LeonT66 will ne interesting to see what happens to this range. I worry that Warlord are getting too big for their boots these days. I hope I'm wrong..
Totally agree with you. I have a feeling this strategy they’re on will come back and bight them in the ass. I just can’t understand the idea behind such ridiculous price structure. It jus looks like pure greed. It’s certainly put me off the whole thing. I went for it initially because I thought the smaller scale would be better for the limited space I have to game in. Wish I’d just left it now. I think you’re right about eBay as well. If I ever decide to get anymore that’s where I’ll be looking
Completely agree Leon, we were saying the same on the Monday stream, the prices are stupid for the extras. Prices are way way too high.
Thanks Dom. I wish I could get in more streams. Bloody work gets in the way most Monday nights. They had such a great idea but then dropped the ball and ruined it.
The prices are shocking. You'd have thought they did some competitor research!
I reckon they thought they had the market cornered with their odd scale. Unfortunately for them that wasn’t the case
You are spot on! But there is another thing Warlord got completely wrong: the entire range of figure sets for the Epic Battle series should be colour coded like the figures in the Starter Set!!! By only having the starter set figures colour coded in blue and grey, while the expansion sets are not, they have alienated the newbees or those potential customers that for various reasons don't want to or can't paint a bucket load of tiny figures!!! And after all, for those who do want to paint their armies they can do so just aswell if the sets are colour coded! Warlord also got it completely wrong with the starter sets for the Waterloo starter sets in the Epic Battle series! A starter pack should include both sides, just like the ACW and the new Pike & Shotte series does, so you can get a game up an running quickly and to an affordable price! But with the Waterloo series you have to buy a minimum of TWO starter sets before you will be able to get your first game going! Something, given the price point for each starter set, British, French or Prussian, is extremely off-putting to anyone who want's to give Epic Battles a try but are not into the ACW or the Pike & Shotte era! CONSISTANCY!!!!
It's like Warlord Games had one idea with the Epic Battle to begin with, then changed their minds (out of greed to milk more money out of their customers? Or because they stopped caring for a moment about drawing in new players into this kind of wargaming?) before changing their minds again to go back to their origina idea with the starter sets! CONSISTANCY! Stick to one path! The same goes for both the colour coded unit sets of each game series within Epic Battles, aswell as with the starter sets for all three game series!
Yep I agree. They definitely should of done a starter set including both armies for the Waterloo Epic. I actually think they missed out there by not doing it. As you said it possibly would of drawn more people in who just wanted to give it a try.
I didn’t realise the expansions weren’t colour coded. I do find that strange. I wonder if the more recent ones are.? Like the Zouaves for example. They sell them as Union or Confederate. So I’d expect them to be the correct colours.? I wonder if it’s just the flag sheets that are different.
It’ll be interesting to see if they are more consistent with future epic releases.
Very enjoyable video, I've never played a Wargame but I'm gonna give this ago,15mm is also new to me,so thanks for a video that has put me on a new adventure.Ive taken your advice and bought Cavalry, Artillery and commands from other 15mm manufacturers,Kallistra miniatures charged me £6 for 16 union Cavalry,I can see me getting carried away lol.Stay Safe 👍👍
Thanks buddy. Lol. Yep it’s easy to get caught up in the moment lol
A million years ago gamers like me started in the hobby with the famous ACW plastics from Airfix - 65 cents Cdn for a box of 48 infantry (20mm). At first the new Warlords' Epic line recalled that period - except Airfix sold all sets (artillery, cavalry, Union infantry. Rebel infantry) at the same price!
Ah yes. I miss them days.
@@leont66wargaming31 Yes, our entire wargaming lives lay before us.
Epic and must so exciting every time the post comes 👍
Its like xmas 😂
@@leont66wargaming31 absolutely and I just had my package of plastic soldiers turn up. I do hope warlord games release these in AWI in this scale
Very fair comments Leon and I agree entirely. It seems the starter set is to hook people and then make the real money from the follow on sets. Warlord contribute a lot to the hobby, but at the day the day it's for profit.
I see no issue with them having a fair return on their outlay, but I really feel they are wrong in this instance.
With all those Austrians you've painted you'll have no problem with these ACW!😁
Yep that’s how I feel about it for sure. The thing is nobody likes to feel like they’ve been ripped off but that’s how this whole thing has left many people feeling. Such a shame as they could of been into a winner with this idea and scale. They’ve really dropped the ball with shortsighted thinking. Because now if the do another one for a different time period, a lot of people are not going to buy into it.
I certainly won’t
Hey man happy to see you got your Starter set. I just got mine as well I will agree the prices are just to High for what You’re getting. And the Klastra figures look pretty good. thanks this was really helpful. 👍
Nice. Glad yours has turned up. It’s a great starter set for sure. Such a shame the wave 2/3 stuff is so overpriced. They look really nice. I think a lot of people will be put off getting the resin and just swap to Kallistra now
Great unboxing mate. Well thought out statements there.
Thanks mate. It’s such a shame they spoiled what was such a great entry point game. I just can’t fathom out why the prices are so high. Just greedy
Excellent review Leon T66. I agree 100% with you on the over-priced Zouaves and Cavalry. Unclecthulu has done exactly what you suggest and that is to use Kalistra minis. I will be following your progress on the painting of these.
Thanks Andrew. It’s such a shame. I was really looking forward to the next waves but I think Warlord have royally screwed up here. They got greedy and snatched defeat from the jaws of of victory lol. I’ll be putting in a small order of Peter Pig cavalry next month to do a comparison.
@@leont66wargaming31 I had no idea that the Warlord guys are ex Games Workshop crew. Now that I am aware it is clear. As you point out, or rather the Old Wargamer does, they need to keep shareholders happy. Also, on a different note, I loved your Landsknecht units. I do Early Italian Wars as well and have the Steelfist minis which are gorgeous.
Nice. I’ll have to take a look at them when I get back to the Landsknecht project. Yeah the 2 owners of Warlord both worked at GW when I was there. John Stollard was my Uber big boss.
The expansion price is what’s put me off starting these
The expansion prices are crazy. The starter set is great. Just go with using Kallistra or Peter Pig for all the other bits and you can’t go wrong.
@@leont66wargaming31 thanks might try that then
That’s what I’ll be doing for sure. Unless by some miracle Warlord watch this video realise their mistake and drop their prices lol.
I agree 100%. My copy of this just arrived and I've shelved it already because I'm not terribly interested in paying the absurd prices for the cav and dismounts that I need. I really do not like the new resin materiel that they are cast in either, if the Meade/Lee figures from this starter are a fair indication. We have to pay over metal prices for Airfix figures. I had a gut feeling that I should cancel my pre-order when I saw the prices on the 3rd wave, and should have followed it.
I thought the entire point of the resin was to be able to quickly cast items with less turnaround than plastic would take and with less cost than the rising metal prices, but apparently the savings to the customer got missed out of that along the line. Guess we should have known since many of the SPQR minis were resin casts of existing minis that cost more than the metal counterparts. And SPQR deserves a rant of it's own with Warlord trying to get us to buy more crap to get a free new edition rulebook.
I'm also pretty annoyed by them removing the free special figures from the rulebooks, as that was about the only reason to ever by a book from them directly.
I feel the same way. I can’t find any enthusiasm to actually start painting my starter box. I’ve just put it away out of sight.
Your thoughts on using resin over metal match mine exactly. The whole point of using the resin was to lower production prices but they appear to have increased then instead. It just doesn’t make any sense at all.
The rule book’s not having the metal figures anymore is another great example of where things are going the wrong way. Warlord started out selling things at good prices to get people into historical Wargaming. Now they’re becoming the GW of historical’s.
The whole thing is putting me off warlord altogether
I got my box starter and a brigade box plus the 3x issues of WI . I figured they would have a ridiculous price on other units so I backed 3D files and I had kalistra ACW .
I really need to get a 3D printer. Love the stuff you’re printing off. The quality looks brilliant.
Excellent content and completely agree with your - 'rant at the end'!
I went all in on the Big Bundle and received it this past week here in the US. Great value for the money!
I started checking the 2nd / 3rd wave releases: nice but ridiculously overpriced!
I understand that resin casting is much more labor intensive (as a manufacturing process) but these prices are a non-starter especially since other options are readily available.
Thanks J P.
Yep totally. It’s a shame because if they’d of kept the prices reasonable they’d of got a lot more sales. Now like us most people will just use alternatives.
great looking minis
Thanks buddy 😊
Great vid mate, well thought out points, if i ever was going to get this those prices would have killed it for me
Thanks Martin. If I’d of known about how ridiculous the waves 2/3 prices would be I’d of never bought the starter set in the first place. It’s killed any enthusiasm I had for the project
I was shocked about the expansion prices as well. The starter set is perfect but that is where I am going to stop and look elsewhere to fill out the rest of the miniatures. It really was shocking for us when we saw the expansion prices because our gaming group was going to do a lot with these kits. All well. Great video as always mate.
Thanks buddy. Same here, I was really looking forward to the next waves but the crazy prices have put me off the whole thing. I kinda wish I’d cancelled my pre order and given the whole thing a miss. Warlord have seriously dropped the ball with this. If they continue with this market strategy I think it will come back and bite them in the ass
@@leont66wargaming31 I totally agree. We have reviewed the box set as well before we knew about wave 2 and were a little upset with what is the trend at warlord with prices. The box starter is perfect but man the wave 2 is just untouchable for the price so the starter will have to do for us. I still want to have you on the show with us sometime. Don't be a stranger. Cheers
I think I might get the Zouaves if I can find them cheap enough, just so all my infantry looks the same. I won’t be getting anything else from Warlord though. Would love to come on the show mate. I have 2 weeks off starting 29th if this month. So it’d be easier for me to come on during that time
Agreed the Zouaves would be the best choice if you can get them cheap enough. Sounds good we will make it happen to have you on the show. Will contact u soon about specifics.
Brilliant
Good points well made Leon 👍
Thanks mate. 😊
Nice update Leon, have to agree with you on the pricing, Its ridiculous. I pay tenner for 36 printed figures and superb quality, ACW in that scale is not for me personally, but i'll look forward to seeing your progress on them mate
Thanks mate. Yes exactly a great point. I think instead of drawing people in to this new thing they were doing they’ve just driven people away.
Going by the side by side comparison I've seen, Epic scale falls between Peter Pig (larger) and Kallistra (slightly smaller). However, in my opinion Kallistra is the most compatible and it will supply you with FOUR limbers plus '6-horse' teams and 4 guns for your £12! As you say, it's a no brainer.
Thanks buddy.
Yep it’s crazy how great value the Kallistra are.
when you can get a 13.5mm limber for epic or a 28mm limber from perry for about the same cost.... and I really don't get the unit sizing but as you say each to their own
Unit sizes are another thing that’s wrong lol. But I went over that in a previous video
I understand the frustration with such high prices however i find myself more frustrated with the people who will pay these prices thus allowing warlord to justify them. Also its cheaper to buy from distributors as opposed to warlord directly
Yeah good point. Hopefully Warlord will come to reason or it’ll end any future releases in this scale. If I was to buy any waves 2/3 it’d be from a 3rd party retailer but even with 20% off it’s still playing into Warlord’s hands. Giving them sales for over inflated prices
you can almost get 3 boxes of 28mm perry cav or zuaves for that price.
Exactly. The Perry’s battle in a box set is another great starter set. I keep meaning to get another one of them
Great box set and fair points about waves 2 and 3. Thanks for recommending 15mm ACW miniatures by Kallistra and Peter Pig. You should do a video comparing the miniatures side by side with each other and with Warlord’s.
I have a video where I use some Kallistra minis
th-cam.com/video/Pp4Iu2qEfTw/w-d-xo.html
agree about the expansions but for a starter set and what you get thats a great deal
Yep totally agree. As I said in the video
You know, before I thought about buying this boxed set I though I'd wait and see what the additions would be like. It's warlord workshop after all so lets be careful. I'm glad I did.
First they seem reluctant to mention scale on the announcements then finally call it '15' mm when it's not. Same old WG chicanery right from the start. Next they get you to order as quickly as possible with tempting offers before you realise these won't fit your existing 15mms. They make sure the scale is now so odd that you will be stuck and can only buy compatible figures from them. They get you all hooked with the pre orders first and only THEN announce the insane prices of the second and third waves when it's too late. I'm sorry this isn't just good enough. This is pure greed and I feel as though WG has behaved in a very devious manner. Thank goodness for Kalistra and Peter pig who have come to the rescue of many epic ACW projects. I will not be buying any more WG products out of principle.
I wish I’d done the same. They’ve really missed out here I think. Instead of making waves 2-3 a massive success they’ve just alienated most people. This will have the knock on effect for any future releases as well. Very stupid if anyone cares what I think.
Thanks for the review Leon, I Completely agree on this, I wanted to use this box set to introduce my daughter to gaming, now a 12yr old girl playing historical wargames is something of a rarity but for some reason she really enjoyed painting the free figs we got with WI and enjoyed the simple game we played through with them (never seen so many sixes in my life😂) however when the prices of all the extra stuff like cav etc came out i completely choked, warlord games have become a rip off over the past years starting with the downsizing of figures in thier boxes and charging the same price !! Sad to see this shoddy practice, now my daughter is painting 6mm adler napoleonic and happier for it, as is my wallet 😁
Haha very nice. 6mm is a bit small for me. That is certainly rare indeed. Some fantastic father daughter time.
It’s a shame Warlord messed this up so badly. Now I think it will ruin any future releases they were planning. Such a pity.
I completely agree with you and while I love the quality of the Warlord sculpts, I do feel as though the prices are a bit steep on the resin stuff. 25% less would have been much more appealing to me. I will certainly still be purchasing some, but not as much as I would have with lower pricing. Kallistra is going to get a lot of business I think. Looking forward to seeing how well Peter Pig sculpts match up.
I will probably get the Zouaves just so they look the same as the rest of my infantry but I’ll get them from a retailer offering a discount. For everything else I’ll just use Kallistra and if Peter Pig match up I’ll use them as well.
Single warlord boxes are maybe too expensive but their starter sets are great, not just for Black Powder. Using this 13,5mm scale might be very comercial but if you just have 28mm it's a good way to start another scale.
I agree. The starter sets are brilliant. The problem is the small boxes for this are ridiculous. It’s a fantastic way to start a new scale and get some great, big battles going but I feel they’ve priced themselves out of the market with the expansions. Should of made them cheaper because now most people will look for alternatives
Mine arrived today. Totally agree starter set is real value but they have shot themselves in the foot with the expansions...kalistra must be rubbing their hands together
Nice. It’s a great set isn’t it. Such a shame Warlord messed this up. I was really looking forward to the expansions.
Yep Kallistra and Peter Pig are going to make a bit of money off this now lol
Fully suspect they thought they had it locked in, Kallistra may have been small enough to slide by them. Bet he is buried in orders now.
Lol. For sure. They’ve messed up big time with these expansions. They could of been on to a real winner here
I really like the starterset and the plastic miniatures. Nevermind the design fail of using the same sprue for union and confederate. But the price of the 2. and 3. release wace is just insane. At the german Warlord facebook page the thold us that they used their resin (which I hate) because of the lower production costs compared to plastic. But they had to increase the price per Box because they expect people to buy less of them.
Thanks fpr sharing your video with us.
I have heard them use this argument on Facebook. Saying that it’s really expensive to produce. I don’t buy that. If it’s so expensive to make then why not just use metal? They use resin because it’s cheap but they seem to have forgotten to pass the savings on to the customer.
Hate to say it but it’s just greed and I think it’s backfired on them.
Great video chap I’m currently on a high about how many people I annoyed 😊
Haha nice. I’m going to watch your video now. I knew I was going to do this one, so I wanted to wait to watch yours so it didn’t influence me 😂
@@leont66wargaming31 haha 😂 I’ve made it deliberately annoying haha 😂
Nice 😂🤣
Exciting!
Lol thanks mate
Spot on Leon, price point does seem odd? I’ve got 10mm and 28mm so luckily non starter for me. I could see Peter Pig and Kallistra picking up some extra business 😏
Yep, I think they just made up a price and then doubled it. Kallistra and Peter Pig now benefit
Bloody hell mate that is a lot of figures, are you going to disappear into a quite cell to get it all painted up, all the best, Garry
Lol. Yes mate I might be found one day under a giant pile of unpainted minis.
You are spot on with your assessment, the starter set is tremendous value and well worth the price. However the expansions are all over the place price wise and to be honest I cannot see then selling well ata ll, which might be the death knell for this epic scale, at least for Warlord. My biggest beef the outrageous pricing on extra command stand, it is almost as cheap to but brigade boxes,,,but more on that in a minute.
The good news is that there are alternatives out there and using these with the Warolrd stuff is the way to go
First of all copy and print your flag sheets, save the originals, save a penny here while you can
Obvious really but first up is Kallistra Miniatures which are slightly smaller and a bit bulkier but when viewed from a distance the mixed units look very much the same - I have used mountboard shims to raise the height on some early mixed figures but it is not really necessary.
Must buys are the command packs but give more flexibility to the starter set, two at a minimum - you probably will want more. What I have planned is to use mostly warlord strips for the Union with just few mixed stands , probaly adding nine of the twelve reb ones. Easy conversion, cut out the central three or four figures - Do not throw these away - and add kallistra models. Generally the reb used only one standard hence the swap, but same method is used
Next up four packs of kallistra zouaves and two Iron Brigade. Mount these on the spare warlord bases and you will have enough 6 zouave and 4 IB - mount two ranks of eight.
Finally to round things out two of each cavavly /dismounted cavavly packs. Again mount these on the warlord base, my way is to mount both dismounted and mounted on the same base and use a marker to denote status, as it give me flexibility and more bankg for my buck.
If you make use of kallistra's offer this comes in at £60 plus postage. However if you wallet can stand the strain consider getting another six packs of assorted infantry ( I already had another two command and one of each firing and advancing. These extra figures with the one you cut to make the extra command strips, can be used to make additional bases - I plan on around 18 bases from every three sprues rather than 15. A much better route than nearer £200 lus by going to Warlord
I have also dug out my pendraken 10mm miniatures , simply because I wanted to have zouaves with turbans and am too lazy to start converting yet, the bonus was finding some rebs wearing straw hats - ideal to be incorporated into my planned Wheat's Louisiana brigade. Okay there is a marked height difference so mixing at first glance is a no no, but on the plus side this models are slimmer and in this way are a decent match to warlords offering. However, plan is to keep these on their own bases which will be doubled mount board, which hopefully given the basing colours is similar accross the board shou;d hide the height difference.
My own little rant is that warlord have been a bit lazy ruleswise and in effect have not given us new "epic" rules but a fudge of BP2, which means big tables which many of us do not have. So I am going with the 3 base to a regiment/brigade dependent on the battle being fought and if necessary count a single base as one , two , three or whatever stands as required
Sorry about the length of the post but hopefully is has a few pointers
Had a thought any 12mm acw 3d printed miniatures out there, I am sure I saw some STL files up for sale?
Good points one and all mate. I’ve actually already done a video where I convert some of the plastic warlord minis and put Kallistra minis in. I too raised them up on a bit of card but as you say it’s not really necessary.
I was thinking of getting the warlord Zouaves but I think I’ll just get the Kallistra ones. I have put a small order in with Peter Pig to see how they match up. I’ve heard they’re quite a good comparison and still cheaper than warlord.
I don’t have a 3D printer which is a shame as a guy on Facebook was doing a Kickstarter and offered me some off his files to review.
Check out Walkabout games TH-cam channel. He hasn’t posted in a while but if you leave him a comment about 3D ACW I’m sure he’ll get back to you. He definitely has 3D files for this. His name is Chris
@@leont66wargaming31 Thanks for the reply.
Looked at Peter Pig and they are lovely figures but just a tad too big and bulkier, so look a little odd when mixed in - at least to me. Plus the cost of PP packs needs to be factored in as well.
The starter set sprues were given a rough base coat last night, no real finesse more a heavy dry brush with a one inch paintbrush and so painting in earnest started today, but something occurred to me. I had not really planned to use the mounted officer base, as I tend to use wooden discs so I had these 48 (24 a side) unused bases and then the light bulb went on. Rather than my plan to cut some infantry bases up to get a bit of flexibility, why not use these. What I am looking at is using at least one per sprue to become a command stand using the kallistra models, so following the plan for 3 stand unit , this give me one 3 base unit and a slightly smaller two base plus command per sprue
I also have been playing around with sources for building etc. Peter Dennis's Paperboys books provide some excellent terrain pieces, including bridges and river (trees to if you have a mind to) simply reduce thenm by 50%. Also check out the 6mmacw site (Altar of Freedom) who have a lot of free stuff, including gettysburg landmarks, the reverse is true for these double the size
Got the starter set, it's a great deal but I also wont spend any more on it at that price.
Yep that’s my thoughts on it
100% agree. I was somewhat contemplating buying in at some point but at thay price hell no
Lol I must admit it’s left a sour taste in my mouth. The starter set is really great but the add on’s are crazy.
You can take the man out of games workshop, but you cant take games workshop out of the man i.e John stallard. Its the old loss leader, draw them in and then hit them with the expansions. Warlord make fantastic ranges and support them well and at the end of the day they are a business and have to turn a profit, its just how you go about it more so in times when peoples jobs are going and they still look to their hobby to escape modern day pressures. Love the channel by the way.
Thanks Nick. Haha yep there it is. The GW market strategy. I can’t help but feel warlord have really dropped the ball with this. They’d of turned a better profit with high volume. Now all they’ve done is make people feel like they’re being ripped off and nobody likes that feeling.
Seems like a very fair assessment Leon, those prices are way steep! Wonder if WG has plans to buy out Kallistra next? If I was doing this as a project I would definitely buy all my extras from Kallistra.
Lol. Yes that’d be interesting. Kallistra will be making more money from this now lol. Yes I’ll be getting all my extra bits from Kallistra and I’ve just put in a little order from Peter Pig as I’ve heard they’re a good match and have great sculpts. @Pbeccas has a 15mm ACW Peter Pig army. He loves them.
I RECEIVED MINE ...THEY GAVE ME TWO BRIGADES TWO BOXES FOR FREE ....BUT YA I CANT SPEND THAT MONEY THANKS FOR THIS When they came out i could not undrestand .....why so much.....u r right....BUDDY I COULD NOT GO ON I MIGHT SELL MINE SO UPSET ABOUT PEICE BUT NOW I CAN BUY FROM OTHER ....
That was nice of them I guess. But even still it doesn’t make up for the ridiculous prices they’re charging for the add on stuff. I was tempted to sell mine as well but I’ll just order some bits from Kallistra and then call it a day
@@leont66wargaming31 YES SAME HERE I HAVE A BATTLE BOX OF 28MM I MIGHT PUT TOGETHER AND A ROKES DRIFT LOL....SELL I MIGHT ON MY E BAY .... THIS NOT HAPPY WAR LORD PRICE IS WAY TO MUCH .. I HAVE OVER A 1000 TO SHOW LEARNING TO MAKE A VID MY WIFE ALWAYS DID IT FOR ME BUT HAVE ALOT TO SHOW N WELL SOON ..... PS HOPE TO VISIT SOON I HAVE FIRST SHOT 2ND APRIL 3RD THEN DONE....I HOPE WHAT A YEAR ... BUT WILL MAKE THE MOST OF IT....C U SOON BUDDY
I'll be buying a few boxes, but really just to support my local gaming store and maintain goodwill than anything else. Maybe half Warlord from the store and half Kallistra weborder.
At least you’ll hopefully be getting a discount from your local store. Might make the box prices a bit more palatable. I might get some Zouaves just so my infantry units look the same but I’ll use other manufacturers for everything else
Suggest scanning the flags for extras
Yes I’ll have to do that
fully agree, the cost is to high, its likely to drop at retailer by 20%, still to high though
Yeah that was my thinking too. Even with 20% off it’s still too expensive.
The cost of the expansions stopped me and I have decided to go with Pendraken 10mm which have more character and metal, plus a damn site cheaper
Must admit, tempted with Pendraken. However I need to reduce the mountain first
Do you think/know if the Glory Hallelujah supplement is useful/has much need since this set comes with an ACW booklet. I know the included book is much smaller in page count but quantity doesnt always mean quality
I found the Glory Hallelujah book very useful. You could get away with using just the little booklet though if you wanted
You can get a PDF version of the supplement from Warlord for £10 that's all its worth. Mainly fluff.
Thanks mate. Yeah I have the book. Some good bits in it.
Who knows where Warlord thinks they’re going with their prices? The price rises happened for us on the dark side of the globe pre covid. Prices shot up 30-40% over night when they changed the website. The free shipping bar went from about ¥7000 to almost ¥30000 just recently. I’ve gone over to other manufacturers and buying any Warlord stuff off of eBay. Thankfully, historical collections can be used for any game pretty much and you aren’t married to a set of rules. They appear to be mimicking GW around 1991 issuing all these new games with big fanfare and then they just fade away into the past. I think foundry and Perry’s have the right tortoise approach and understand their customers better. My $0.02
Totally agree mate. They think they can copy GW market strategy. The trouble is they don’t make the same quality of miniatures as GW. Plus as you say with historical minis you’re free to use any manufacturer out there. I think they thought they had the market cornered with their odd scale so could charge whatever the hell they wanted. Unlucky for them there’s alternative minis one can use. They really dropped the ball with this I think. They could easily have sold loads of the next wave stuff if it’d of been at a reasonable price. Instead they’ve just pissed people off so much that they’ll lose custom over it.
Yes, interesting times we are living through. Since SARS-COV 2 stagnated our countries, WL games has seen fit to again raise prices. A full 25% price hike (if not more) over the past six months (or thereabouts). I suspect the demand for WL games products has increased exponentially since these quarantines were enacted. Thus, supply and demand changes invariably affect pricing. As you folks have alluded to, we have other miniature companies to use (thankfully).
I think this could come back to haunt them. All these price hikes. They need to remember there are many more companies out there doing it better than them. Victrix. Perry’s just to name a couple. It’s put me of Warlord Workshop for a while
Great rant! I hate Warlord products. Nice starter set. Enjoy painting them!
Thanks Vic. Might be a while before I can get the enthusiasm to paint these now lol.
Missed this video first time around. Must admit, I hadn’t been following this game closely but I did notice the price of the starter set and though it was pretty reasonable. But the price of the add-one is absolutely mad. Not quite on the European Super League scale of greed but definitely in that area. They really don’t deserve to sell any but I’m sure they will. It’s Warlord and people seem to buy their stuff whatever they do.
Thanks Jim. They’ve dropped the ball with this. If they’d kept the add insult at a reasonable price a lot more people would of bought into it. More importantly though this greed will hurt them if they were planning future releases for other periods
If looking to expand on contents of the box are there alternatives to the wave 2 and 3 stuff that would fit in with the Warlord stuff?
Kallistra and Peter Pig are your best options
@@leont66wargaming31 Cheers
No worries mate
I completely agree with you mate, the starter box is good value, but the extra waves prices are way too high. It’s seems Warlord are using GWs pricing structure with these. I was excited when Warlord announced this project until I seen the awkward size, that put me off and now with these prices I can see others not getting involved. Shame really as it did have great potential. Hope your well mate and I look forward to seeing your progress on these 😁👍
I’m good thanks mate. Best wishes to you and the family.
Warlord have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. 🤣. Such a shame as they were on to a real winner. Still Kallistra and Peter Pig will be happy 😃
Yep high prices. lucky im not into ACW. Great vid m8
Cheers mate. Can’t help but feel warlord dropped the ball on this one
Totally with you Leon, the starter set and the overall concept is solid but the expansions are BS.
Thanks buddy. It just seems crazy doesn’t it. Here’s such a great product and concept but in waves 2/3 we’re just going to over price everything and screw up our great idea. Madness
Warlord have always wanted to be GW...and they're just assuming they can charge GW prices. On the plus side, Warlord games often fail and you can find them at discount on bulk distributors within a year or two - so maybe the starter box will be a cheap way in - then fill with Kalistra (apparently the scales match). So just use Warlord for the mass figures.
Yeah that’s true. Just wait it out and should turn up somewhere at half price lol
I won't be buying a ton of the expansions but for those of us across the pond the shipping on kalistra brings the price more in line with warlord and the warlord sculpts seem a lot better in the previews particularly the skirmishers.
Yeah I really like the sculpts on the expansions. Not the Iron brigade so much but all the others are great. Just over priced. But as you say, you don’t really need all the add on’s. There’s plenty to play with just from the box.
Maybe blue moon or old glory in the US would be a good match?
Here in the states shipping was not that bad for Kallistra. Already picked up mounted and Dismounted cav, limbers, dead, Black hats, and extra command figs. Also not happy with their cav basing using infantry stands (understand they are making the base sprue fit them). Use arty bases turned sideways and mounting 4 figs. Gives them a footprint more in line with Napoleons battles. Did have to get metal bases for them though because there are nowhere near enough bases on the sprues. Base game is awesome, comes out to $5 a sprue (at full retail) plus free extras. Box sets are Better then $10 a sprue that likely cost them a buck or two to make. Far cheaper then Kallistra per fig but still way overpriced. Most hobby shops will be giving a 10 to 20% discount on the pre order and some will keep it up to make sales on the seriously overpriced kicker boxes. Fully suspect they will sell a lot of starter boxes, have a early rush on Brigade boxes, then people will wake up and realize they get twice as many figs buying a second starter. Add in more buildings and it is a much better deal.
Excellent mate. I think you’re spot on with that analysis. I was thinking of adding a 2nd starter box once I’ve got these painted. Lots of 3rd party offering 20% off. I’ll use warbases for the cavalry bases I think. I agree they’ll look better being a bit bigger.
I'm new to the whole thing and I'm having a hard time paying the $100 for my first starter set... I see the value in it but jeez it's crazy to pay that for little plastic (mind you the most I've paid for any of my car models it $10)
I get that, maybe try getting a single sprue from Ebay or somewhere first, before committing to the starter set. See how you get on with it. Getting that first unit done will hopefully inspire you to carry on. The starter sets are great value. Sometimes they turn up on eBay at reduced prices too
Maybe get the starter sets and expansions when they have discounts for them.
The starter sets are always worth getting. Great value. The expansions, at least for this line will never be worth getting unless it’s a 50% off sale
If you preorder anything from phase two, you'll get a discount for anything for phase 3
It is the same thing they did with SPQR. I bought the starter, because I liked the models, and they were a good price. I then looked at the expansions and went "oh hells no."
Great video :) I agree with the rant about the expansion prices, I think they have nailed the base boxes to get people into the scale and game but to whack the price up for the other box sets is a slap in The face, I understand they are resin but still they should of tried to produce a box set with a realistic price
Thanks Matt. Exactly. They’ve priced themselves out of the market with these ridiculous over inflated prices. If they’d of kept them at a reasonable level a lot more people would of got them. Now most people will just get Kallistra or Peter pig or something. Bit of a shame really
@@leont66wargaming31 it’s a shame as I think they were heading in the right direction for a impressive range which they have endless possibilities for expansion but instead it come across to me as a way to grab more money. I think they’ve been paying a lot of attention to GWs business plans ha. But I must say I’m still really interested in this new range even if I just find myself picking up the affordable plastic infantry sets
I agree mate. I was really looking forward to getting the expansions. Still and all the starter set is brilliant and I’ll just use Kallistra and/or Peter Pig for the other bits. I think Warlord have made a big mistake with the prices. They’re definitely on the GW band wagon. The owner was my big boss at GW when I worked for them.
@@KingMATTtheSuperior Have to agree on the business plan. They are getting more and more into the WG pricing game. Sadly that is why a lot of us bailed on them years ago. If they do the BFG/Warmaster/Inqusition catch and release trick on this and drop it in a year or so we know they are following the same model that burned a lot of us on GW a generation ago. Be interesting to see how long they support Cruel seas/Black seas/Blood red sky before abandoning them.
@@shadowcat3163 I understand as a company they want to make money but anyone who understands Wargamers will know that we are all just itching to spend our money! I feel like this new epic black powder has traction it just depends how they handle the releases of any future acw or other eras like napoleonics. I feel at this scale if they keep it “cheap and cheerful” it’s going to perform a lot better than very expensive resin.
hi leon im not interested in gaming acw or purchasing any of the models but still enjoy seeing the minis and things but i think you are absolutely correct in the fact they have priced these box sets completely wrong, and showing what other retailers have to offer it really is as you said a no brainer to go elsewhere if your after wargaming that period. why would anyone in there right mind pay £40 for something you can get somewhere else for £15 its less than half the price its crazy and such a shame from warlord, i think they are trying to take advantage of their name as they are probably the biggest historical model company, please tell me if im wrong as im guessing and they are just thinking people will blindly buy there products. i have seen a few comments saying they are becoming like games workshop and i really hope that is not the case as the main reason i stopped playing warhammer 40k was the price of the models as for 16 year old at college at the time or even a adult i just couldnt afford there price range so i hope warlord dont end up down the same road as they will end up driving people away from the hobby sadly. all the best and great video thanks for sharing and showing price comparison very enlightening
Yep same here Chris. I was playing 40k and I have a Dark eldar army. The meta was constantly changing. I’d already invested about £400 into it and realised to be competitive I needed at least another £300 of minis. That ended it for me.
I fear that’s where Warlord are heading, which will be a great shame as they started off so well. This epic idea was such a great one but now with the crazy add on prices it’s ruined it. I wish I’d never got the starter box at all now. Should’ve just got another Perry’s battle in a box set instead
@@leont66wargaming31 it's a shame that you wish you didn't purchase it now but maybe you can sell the minis once have put them together if you still feel that way, its sad that the add on boxes are so expensive as the starter seems like a good box, maybe if you want to stick with it can get the add on bits from the different companies but something for the future I guess. Love the Austrians and looking forward to seeing them and some more oathmark as well
Thanks mate. I’m just a bit disappointed with it all at the moment. When I get over it I’ll get round to painting them. I’ll just get all the extra bits I need from Kallistra. There’s no hurry now. Got a gazillion Austrians to do and nearly as much Oathmark lol. So I’ll crack on with them instead. Lost my mojo the last couple of weeks and haven’t painted anything. Hopefully tomorrow I’ll get some motivation
Don't you get flashbacks to when games workshop got a hold on the market with the fantasy and what happened the prices started to rise and rise to the point where most of us history people will now not even glance at them , I just hope that warlord are not going down the same street cause they will lose out as there are other companies were we will go to quite happily. Take care Terry
Yep absolutely. The thing is, love em or hate them GW make some of the best miniatures on the market. Warlord don’t. There’s a whole host of companies that make better minis. They’ve dropped the ball on this one. Such a shame as they were on to a winner
would most people buy more than the starter set for ACW ? It's been years since I've even seen it played in the UK at all.
I know a few people that play it, but as to buying more than the starter set. I think people would of done had they been more affordable.
The starter set is a great way to start a new project and then carry it in once you’ve had a few games and enjoyed it. Trouble now is people will look at and quickly work out the overall all cost and say no thanks. If I wanted to spend that kind of money I’d of kept on playing 40k lol
nice one
Thanks buddy. Hope you’re well. Interesting videos on Facebook mate 🤣😂. Great little fun app that one
Completly agree with the rant. At half the price the expansions would still be expensive for what they are but more competativly priced and would probably sell. The minis look great but the warlord resin ive had can be hit and miss on quality, its a cheap material being sold at a premium.
I like warlord but it feels like there on a slippery slope, over pricing when there are so many competitors who offer as good or better products. Stallards GW background is showing its ugly head.
Totally agree with you James. Probably the vast majority of my minis are Warlord. Bolt action and Napoleonic. I feel they’ve made a big error here. Such a shame as I was really looking forward to the additional waves. Just left a GW sour taste now lol
I was excited when I heard about this...was. Then I've seen posts about ridiculous prices. The odd scale so it won't match other figures.
Shame.
Yep it’s such a shame. They could of been on to a real winner but instead got greedy and messed it up
The new boys on the block will be 3D resin which will knock WG out of the running before long. Check out all the aftermarket Warhammer stuff coming out just outstanding stuff in the same scale. WG will get a hiding in the end. Starter box is good value that's about it.
Totally agree. 3D printing will be the future for our hobby no doubt about it
How does the AB 15mm ACW range compare in size?
Hi mate. The AB range is too big to match well with the Epic range. I’ve found the best comparisons are Kallistra for the infantry and artillery and Peter Pig for the cavalry
Compared to previous releases such as the Waterloo set. What offers better value for a historical beginner ?
Nothing that I can see. As I said in the video I think the starter set is absolutely brilliant. The cost of the support waves however is crazy. They’ve priced themselves out. Most people will now buy alternatives. I was really looking forward to the add ons. But there’s no way I’ll be getting them now. I’ll just use Kallistra and/or Peter Pig.
@@leont66wargaming31 Thanks. I guess I will have to get it. As always love the straight talking reviews.
Definitely worth getting the starter set. If you shop around you can get between 10-20% off rrp. For all the extra bits just use different manufacturers. Kallistra and Peter Pig seem to be the closest in scale
Also if you prefer 28mm. The Perry’s battle in a box set is fantastic
True, redicilous prices for the 2nd wave boxes.
Yeah it’s a shame. It’s put me off getting anything they do like this in the future
@@leont66wargaming31 I just looked at Peter Pig and I simply can't find the ACW figures........
I’ll send you a link, if TH-cam allow it lol
www.peterpig.co.uk/2%20%20American%20Civil%20War%20.html
@@leont66wargaming31 found it..... much cheaper than warlord games
Hi Leon, lovely little snack 😆. More fantastic work, well done.
Would you be interested in some 6mm Grumblerminiatures? I can send you some samples if you want?
Lol. It was tasty.
I’ve never painted 6mm.
@@leont66wargaming31 6mm is easier than you think and looks great as you can have bigger battalions 😉
I’d be happy to take a look at them but I don’t know when I’d get round to it. I have so little free time these days 🤣
I am most upset about the Kepi Hats which are lacking for the Union and the backpacks lacking for union if union had no packs at all it would have been better
I agree mate. I’ve cut the hats down on my Union troops to make them look like they’ve all got Kepi’s.
Warlord is a business and have bills to pay, employees, etc. I have no idea what their operating costs are, and perhaps they’ve taken a bit of a hit on the “great deals” of the starter sets. 🤷🏻♂️ If the expansion packs are too expensive for your wallet, don’t buy them and fill in your armies with Peter Pig, etc. Perhaps at some point the cost will then come down, but I don’t want them going out of business over it. It’s a few quid on a one time purchase. The cost of a pint or two that I won’t be pissing away. Not a big deal to me. Keep in mind also, they eat shipping costs on most of their sales. Factor that in to your cost.
I don’t object to Warlord making a profit one bit. Probably 70% off my historical minis are from Warlord. What I object to is being blatantly ripped off.
It’s like when you go to the cinema. You can get great offers on the tickets. Often 2 for 1. But when you go to buy a coke and a hotdog you pay ridiculous price. Why? Because you’re a captive audience. That’s where Warlord went with this. If you think that’s except-able then cool that’s ok. I can live with people having different opinions to me. (Maybe not that badge though lol).
Actual production costs are something I know quite a lot about. I’ve seen some posts on Facebook where Warlord claim they don’t make much money from the starter sets and I don’t buy a word of it. I can pretty accurately calculate the cost of said box. As I can with the waves 2/3 stuff.
I don’t want to see them go out of business. What I would like is for them not to take advantage of their customers and make a fair profit. Had they done this they would of benefited a lot more. So for me I’d rather have a couple of pints with my mates than not be able to afford to go out because warlord ripped me off.
Leon T66 wargaming You have an entirely different definition of being “ripped off” than I do. Choosing to pay a certain amount of money for something is not that definition. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. Again, Warlord paid shipping cost in that big heavy box they just shipped to me across the Atlantic. If you spend $50 (and it’s rare if you don’t) on their site, shipping is free. Add it up. That’s quite a few quid right there.
Well I have to say that is very good of them. And also their customer service is great. Any problem with a order or product is sorted out quickly and without fuss. There are a lot of things they do really well. As I said before I have loads of warlord minis.
I just think they dropped the ball with this. This whole epic scale thing was and is such a great idea. They could of took this and run with it for years. Going forward when they start to do other periods in this scale I think that the add on prices from this ACW range will put people off. It’s such a shame as it was a real winner.
We’ll have to agree to disagree about the price point for the waves 2/3 but if you read through the comments you’ll find most people think the same as me. All that being said. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about it
Anybody try to put that barn shaped house together? It was Devilish. Directions give parts a number but parts have no numbers on them. Took me two hours. I would like to get the cemetery gate and Lutheran Seminary but fear the complexity.
I haven’t yet. Not looking forward to that then lol. Might make a few buildings up out of scrap and foam board at some point
Probably why they keep offering 10% discounts to try and lure you in! It’s a shame what they’ve done with the prices, will be getting all my wave 2/3 from Kallistra.
I was thinking that same thing. I’m going to put in a little order for some cavalry from Peter pig. Pbeccas has a 15mm ACW army and he swears by them.
@@leont66wargaming31 looking forward to the future comparison video! I wonder if warlord will start selling the bases or if it’s worth moving MdF ones now
I think I’ll stick with the warlord bases for the infantry and maybe mdf for the rest. Or see if Renedra do any appropriately sized bases maybe?
@@leont66wargaming31 that’s a good shout, from my recollection the infantry sprues have a spare base right? Might be enough on there to start my dismounted cav at least
Yep they do
Great intro lol
Cheers mate lol
It’s not your ad block that’s causing the warlord website not to load, their site has a persistent issue with not opening up images.
Ah right. Thanks buddy
That’s why they went for 13.5mm models. Now people won’t be able to mix and can’t escape those 40£ sets. They’ve been doing this in other stuff, as Victory at Sea and Black Seas, where they put idiotic scales in so that it’s almost exclusive to them. I was holding out to see what more would they do in this faux Epic system, but not anymore.
Yep exactly. At least you can use Kallistra alongside this ACW stuff. It’s such a shame as now when they do/if they do any other periods people won’t buy into it because they know the add on’s will be ridiculously overpriced
how is this music in the background called ?
I can’t remember now mate. It was free music from the iMovie app
Nobody wants a Games Workshop pricing reputation unless they want it...
That’s the truth
well well
Indeed lol
I don't know if they changed it since you made this video but the Zouaves etc are made of metal. I feel this is a bargain for £40.
Yeah they were that resin stuff when I made this video
Resin and metal still in the expansions? Seriously? It's 2021, not 1994 and Warlord is a big player, not a couple of blokes in a shed. They still insist on these outdated materials. Starter set looks fantastic, but metal and resin always puts me off investing in new miniature ranges. First company that does all plastic in any scale gets my money.
Dear guys, for such prices, I’d go 28mm! 😂 Moreover WG could have made confederate and union specific sprues. They are just the same. They changed only the color of the plastic, disappointing
Yep. Wish I’d just bought another Perry’s battle in a box set instead lol
Then add the postage to anything below 150 quid.....forget it. Sorry Warlord you have done yourself out of a few customers I would say.
Yes definitely. Just looking at the comments on this video tells a story. I’d say over 90% would of bought the add in at a reasonable price but now aren’t going to touch them. A huge mistake in marketing by Warlord
I hate how are the prices are so insane and that the Union soldiers most of them have hats on instead of the caps on I think they just used the same plastic model and made it blue and called it a day.
Yep that’s what they did. Shame really
Its stallard with his games workshop mentality thinking the prices are good,I only need two units of zouaves one for each side and only one regiment of iron brigade,the cavalry I will properly get but only one box and one box of dismounted but even then the cost is annoying so will be a couple of months apart to justify spending that.
Definitely. I think the only thing I might get are the Zouaves. Just so they match with the rest of the infantry. Everything else will be from other manufacturers
Besides when you think of brexit taxes....I stick to my starter set and...enough
Yep, you’ll still be able to have decent games just using the starter box
Starter set cheap, rest ridiculous price... I will buy the starter box and then get the rest from Kallistra
Yep. That’s pretty much what I did too
A lovely unboxing mate,I'll be ordering some 28mm confederacy troops from Perry as there are a few to many to paint
The Perry’s battle in a box set is outstanding as well mate
That is an excellent set. A bit crushing when you see how much painting is involved though....
Hahaha yes it’s going to take some time. I do have a speed painting method for the Union. If I can ever get the enthusiasm to paint them
@@leont66wargaming31 Yeah, Union are dull to paint. The only thing duller is 150 Zulus.
At least with the Confeds you can vary the uniforms a bit and fight about what color butternut really was.
Hahaha yep there is that with the confederates hahaha. It’s like the whole German field grey argument all over again
ouch!
Wow what a rip, its no wonder ive fell out with wargames and have gone to one cost board games warlord workshop at its best, must have borrowed the finecast machine lol.
They definitely screwed this one up. Haha yep that must be it, trying to get full use out of it before they give it back
Warlord are catching up on missing funds somewhere -as in the expansion sets . They must be leeching cash out for the starter sets . Warlord , lets hear from you ?? In the end Leon , you pushing ahead with doing them now ?
Firstly thanks for the info on the Austrians. I managed to save it before TH-cam deleted your comment. They do hate people posting links lol.
I think the higher management all had eyes on new yachts and cruising around the Bahama’s but instead its going to be a rubber ring in a paddling pool.
I’m not very enthusiastic about it all now. It’s really put me off the whole thing. Nobody likes to feel like they’re being ripped off and that’s the feeling I’m left with. I think in the end I’ll just buy the additional stuff from Kallistra and call it a day when that’s done. Won’t be expanding any further than that.
@@leont66wargaming31 yeh i picked up that sentiment just at the end ! I'm sure if you on sell it or make it a prize for your yt blog someone will be happy ( I didnt know about the deleting links , hope theres something to be useful in there )
It will be useful but not so much for the jägers lol. No definitive answer yet. Hahaha. I’ll just go with all green to be on the safe side lol
There's enough climbers in that box to cover all the arty in the starter box...
Climbers?
%#@$Auto Correct, LOL...Limbers...
Oh lol. 🤣
Great vid...not much value in those expansions! Thanks for highlighting this.
Thanks buddy. Yep Kallistra all the way lol