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You need to check those Earliest Egyptian Writing with the Early Egyptian Style Writing Found in Australia. It is Very Amazing and could Explain the Aussie Styles that showed Up in Egyptian Work such as the Sudden Appearance of a Boomerang Style Weapon
@@hydrolito fantastic stupid virtue signalling attempt. "King is the title given to a male monarch in a variety of contexts". not just "of England". it is perfectly fine to call pharaohs kings. only lame "uh actually" minded goofs would be so pedantic
This is interesting. If Narmer was one of the first kings of unified Egypt, then logically there'd be kings of non-unified Egypt, and proto-kings as well.
Yep archeology in Egypt goes back way further than the Pharoahs, mummies and pyramids everyone is familiar with. There's an entire pre-history that is just as interesting where many of the cultural signifiers we'd come to associate with Pharoahnic Egypt developed. It's not like Egypt just suddenly emerged fully formed as a civilization 5000 years ago, a lot of stuff lead up to that.
@@hedgehog3180 Indeed, but the title was never attributed to Egypt; instead, it was referred to as Kemet. Furthermore, to acquire such extensive knowledge and culture from Africa, they had to traverse the entire continent. Consequently, they resided in numerous regions across Africa to encompass a diverse array of experiences. Eventually, all the distinct tribes unified at that time to establish ancient Kemet/Egypt. Moreover, internal conflicts necessitated warfare among themselves.
@@Kemet3.0Egypt is just the modern word because we're using English. Its not some far out concept that the ancient Egyptians used their own language for their own terms. The English speaking world learned about Egypt via the Romans, who picked up the name through the Greek Aegyptos
Egypt--the gift that just keeps on giving...and giving...and giving...and--all right, already. Thanks, David for another fascinating look into the mists of time.
My boy Diodorus! I'm very happy we have his work, even if he does exaggerate a bit. Ok, he exaggerates a lot, but you get my drift! 😆 Thanks Dr. Miano!
It’s fascinating that the royal iconography goes back so far. There’s so much strange and mysterious iconography from the earliest dynasties: the imiut fetish, the “royal placenta,” the coils on the red crown spoken of in the pyramid texts. I wish we had more information from that period
I love this period of history where pre-history slowly transforms into history. It really gives you a feeling of the mists of time, and unlike pre-history where it's basically impossible to know anything specific here there are still names and mysteries to be solved. You get such a tantilizing feeling that if you could just focus your eyes a bit more you can peer beyond the veil of time and see something definite, like noticing an object glinting in the fog far away in a bog. Even if this feeling is purely a mirage it just feels so close that if you could just reach a little bit further you could grab it and that on it's own is enough to inspire wonder and motivate research and learning.
I really appreciate this channel, and others like it. There's so much silly crap out there. I'm grateful that there are real scholars around to set the record straight. Thanks, Doc. 👍
My first exposure to ancient Egypt was in my 4th grade reader, which had a story of two ordinary Egyptian boys. I pictured in my mind daily life in a setting very similar to the setting in the near by Rio Grande valley, and people living a lifestyle like that of the Anasazi. I considered the source of the story to be ancient to my 9 year old mind, since it was copyrighted in the 1940s, about 15 years before I read it in class. I didn't learn about pharhonic Egypt until later, so I have always been drawn to wanting to know what happened in prehistoric Egypt.
Yeah, sadly we are still wondering the same thing but hopefully will future archaeologists find more clues. The real problem though is that before Pharaoh Scorpion I hieroglyphs doesn't seem to exist so we are kinda stuck to later king lists and guesses based on pictures before that. History with Cy also had a good episode on the pre dynastic period in his series to cover all dynasties (he is currently on the 19th dynasty) which is worth a look if you are interested in the early period. We also have a lot of more information on upper Egypt then lower, the Maadi of lower Egypt are more of a mystery. We know they actually did something in Giza based on 30 or so pottery shards found there but we don't know what. They did like to make underground dwellings... They require even more digging.
@@JayKahns Those stories are a lot later though, so while I don't think we should just write them off, neither do I think we can just take their word for it. Let's call it one possibility. Likelier they were in what's now the desert until the green Sahara period started to wane off and settled in upper Egypt where the Nile kept everything green. That lead to a higher population density which is how most civilizations start out. Once Upper Egypt got powerful enough, Narmer conquered lower Egypt from the Maadi and became the first real Pharaoh.
@@JayKahns PUNT is modern day somalia. Be careful sir. This is why hawass cannot say anything. It destroys islam immediately because AL’LAT was worshipped in arabia before allah in 579ad. AL’LAT is the black ethiopian women. AL-UZZA is another name for her worship. KUSHITE blacks ruled arabia by the millions+. They began sharia law and beheaded Arabs first.
Dude all you have to do is look up the kemetic Kings list it's 65,000 year history of the rulers of Egypt aka kemet aka the black land, also people don't read Alexander the great's diary he tell you why the Greeks and pretty much every other nation on earth lusted after the land for thousands of years I could go deeper but I'm not going to cuz I don't want to offend nobody 😊
This video is amazing. The explanation of the origins of the well known later Egyptian civilizations [plural!] is essential to counteract the falsehoods peddled by grifters and fantasists. Some of the tiles shown feature an animal and a possible glyph. Such things are valuable keys to unlock the past, but are frequently and eagerly misused by some to create alternate, proof-free, narratives. The holes on the tiles could indicate that they might be decorations, talismans, or merchandise tags or counters. They resemble tiles associated with the Indus Valley Civilization. They also resemble the playing tiles and cards used in East Asia [Hanafuda in Japan, Hwa Tu in Korea]. They could just as easily be teaching/learning material, this mark = this thing. One of the glyphs resembles an ancient Chinese character for water. Instead of using the unsound, childish method of "looks like" means "is," critical thinking must be employed. Ask a child to make a picture of water, and wavy lines are most likely to be drawn, which resembles the character = water 漢字 -> ≋ -> 水. This understanding of depiction becoming symbol, sign or glyph is crucial to interpreting ancient relics. It has to be carefully used so as not to become the mode of charlatans, "I think so, therefore it is true," so familiar in the presentations of the notorious grifters Error von Dummkopf and Grayman Handschlock. Thanks Prof. Miano for your lucid explanations of ancient history and archaeology, so necessary not only to dispel false narratives, but to enlighten the public and promote understanding of our ancestors and the civilizations that they have made.
I agree that false narratives are a dime a dozen, and I understand the scientific method very well. But how does that Chinese ideogram look anything like water? I’m quite interested in the origins of East Asian writing just as much as Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Mesoamerican. It’s said to be written on animal bones during the Shang Dynasty, but I wonder whether it goes back further than that… So many mysteries to be solved, and enjoyed in the process.
Wavy lines to represent water are usually horizontal, but to represent a river or stream vertical. The modern Chinese character for water is ㊌ though in decorative use it can be written as three vertical wavy lines. I have seen use of wavy lines on objects made by native Americans. I am not suggesting the 19th century idea of single origin for everything, nor the idea that everything is independently arrived at. The problem is that both things are possible, there being clear evidence for pyramids being independently developed, while some things have been shared by trade or conquest. The error is "one size fits all" thinking. If you are specifically referring to my description of the tile depicted in the video; looks like, or similar to do not mean identical. The 2nd tile from the right, top row, looked like it might be water flowing from a spring or a flower or a bunch of scallions. You probably know that linguists sometimes try to find a relation between languages by natural sounds, i.e. "wa wa"is a baby sound, so it may be pronounced that way in Latin, it is more like the dog sound to Japanese and Chinese. That method is fraught. We think that dogs say "bow wow" or "woof woof" but Koreans think it's "mong mong." It is my contention that graphic representation is less problematic, though not at all perfect.@@dukeon
The Qustul incense burner is also good evidence for early Pharaonic iconography. It has many similarities to upper Egyptian rock art and A-group Nubia. Also the various use of Medu Neter in serveral African societies is quite interesting.
Very interesting indeed. Imagine if Bruce Williams never made this information known, folks would still speculate the pre-dynastic continuity regarding motifs, poetry, and culture contributions.
Nice that you showed what Günter Dreyer believed were proto hieroglyphs, which makes a lot of sense. Those certainly help to understand previous pre-dynastic iconography, as well as the origin of dynastic hieroglyphs of course
I’ve always been very curious and fascinated with pre-dynastic Egypt and it’s origins. Well, honestly not just Egypt, most ancient civilizations fascinate me, especially their likely origins. My uncle (archaeologist) and I are always discussing this, especially the early Peruvian cultures, but often encapsulates Asia and Africa. I love this subject so much, I wish I had made it part of my career.
I think what I like most about your blogs David is how well you outline the things about the subject that we don’t know. A very important aspect sadly overlooked by many. Keep up the good work!
It's interesting how in a way, Egyptians seemed to consider their country only truly began existing after the unification of the north and the south, and everything before that was ignored and forgotten as if it was unimportant.
I am not sure that is what they did, but the hieroglyphs were not so widely used before Narmer, the oldest were the primitive one found in Scorpion Is grave (the large showed in this vid). The old Kingdom still showed some of them on their king list while the new Kingdom doesn't even mention Narmer and call the first Pharaoh "Menes" which could have been a another name for him or not, but it is strange that he is called Narmer in all the old Kingdom writings. I think it have more to do with the fact that there was an enormous span of time between the pre dynastic period and the New kingdom who forgot all the names. We are talking 2000 years there. about the same time as between us a Cleopatra. Add to that the lack of pre dynastic monuments and I don't think it is too far fetched that they were forgotten. We still have gaps in the English king list for the 6th and 7th century today and that is in a shorter period. If the New kingdom lacked access to an old kingdom kings list, I think there is no mystery if they had forgotten all the pre dynastic kings. Someone like Khufu who built a huge pyramid they did certainly remember but I don't think we certainly know of any other building by king Scorpion the first then his large grave and the New kingdom scholars hardly knew of it either.
Loved this video! Very timely for me as I've been reading a lot about predynastic Egypt in the last few months and last weekend I went to Manchester Museum where there's a lot of predynastic pottery.
Thanks again for an interesting video. Would you consider doing a video on Nabta Playa and the level of Egyptian astronomical and scientific knowledge up to the Hathor temple at Dendera?
Hey David thank you!! one question, how about the Turin Papyrus? That list stretches back quite more than the Palermo Stone right? i wonder if you think the Turin Papyrus is a valuable document for historians, or to be dismissed, and if so why.
The Turin King List definitely carries the tradition about the gods ruling Egypt prior to the 1st dynasty. If it is from the 19th dynasty, as is generally thought, then it is the earliest example of this tradition. You are right to bring it up, and I should have mentioned it.
Pre-dynastic Egypt was a changing landscape. Desertification happened quickly. Just a few centuries, from green to sand. This is a "seasonal", periodical, proces which has happened hundreds of times, past millions of years. From a rich landscape to the life line, the Nile, in a hostile place. When we think of Egypt we think in monochrome: yellowish. This was a new situation, in which they found themselves, which might have lead to formation of these power structures.
Excellent video. This was very informative for a time period often filled with confusion and mystery. It is fascinating to think there could have actually been a historical base for the Scorpion King (as there is with a lot of mythology). And to think there could have been pre-Dynastic rulers in Egypt as far back as 3,800 BC. You have done a very good job at presenting this time period. Thank you.
Can you please tell us more about the oldest king with the feather headdress from 3800 BC? That is utterly fascinating and mysterious. Is there any idea what his name was based on his tomb?
Thank you for creating this video.Such an interesting period.Far be it for me to mention anything, however.. In the period you are discussing circa 5,000 years ago the area was undergoing huge climatic change. Whilst living next to a river is always a good place to settle there were huge inland (western now desert) lakes and rivers ,indeed you reference the desert rock carvings. It’s perfectly possible that these ‘kings’ were indeed the very first ‘settled kings’ as prior to this it appears that the population was largely nomadic Hunter gatherers as the abundance of ( depicted) wildlife allowed for this simpler lifestyle. Having said that I appreciate proto farming had started 5k earlier with Natufian etc.
Like your art of vivid talking and gestures - makes it much more interesting! Very interesting topic anyway! I was very impressed of all the ancient glpyhs remains when you visit Luxor, Karnak, Thebes and all these ancient sites. Still so well preserved and some even with colors! Nowhere you feel so close to ancient history than in egypt!
Awesomw video as always Dr. Miano, and a very good glimpse over this yet obscure period. Who knows what the new findings will tells us... I only know that to find the tomb of Scorpion II you'll need to go to Ahm Shere... 🤔
I can't help but compare the mace head showing Scorpion opening an irrigation channel to a commemorative plate of some 19th century dignitary opening a bridge!
One of your best: at least the equal to your wonderful travel guide videos. Makes me wonder at the development of urban settlements from the Badaran on down. Anyway, great channel.
You can't compare saxon kings in 8th century A.D to the story of African nile valley culture in 3100BC that's just stupid they are completely different concepts
More than likely the early kings were either the Dinka, Nuer, or Shilluk. When I was at Georgetown there were two Dinka men who were not only giant sized, but intellectual giants. It's no doubt that their ancestors were the beginning.
So it was like Jarls/Lords/Tribe Leaders who at some point all came together through something lost to time. But the fact they came together to create a super civilization tens of thousands of years before the rest of us, absolutely fascinating.... How. How did they do it??????
Some historians think Scorpion II actually was the same person as Narmer... Since we never found his grave I don't think you should be certain, but it is rather likely he was either the father or brother of Narmer. It would be a bit strange if Narmer, Menes and Scorpion II was all the same person though but I could see Scorpion II changing his name to Narmer if he conquered lower Egypt. However, all this is speculations and we can't be 100% sure there wasn't one or even several forgotten rulers between them. My bet would be father or older brother though, but that is still just a guess based on what we know so far. Neither can we be sure Scorpion II ruled briefly.
@@saulgoodmangaming3460 Yeah, it is certainly plausible but I reacted on the word "certain" and very little is really certain about pre dynastic Egypt. Heck, we don't really have that mush about Narmer either even if it is more then from any pre dynastic Pharaoh. Our best artifact from him is really the Narmer palette which is very helpful and together with an inscription showing Narmer marching towards upper Egypt with his army on a cliff the proof we had Narmer united Egypt. But already there, you can date that changes in culture and artifacts from the same time which helps us immensely.. We need a lot more archaeology focus on early dynastic and pre dynastic Egypt, most of the archaeology have been focused on the old and the new kingdom, already shadowing the middle kingdom and the 2 intermediate periods and far so more the pre dynastic. And some pre dynastic finds have been ignored, like the Kroner pits in Giza that had thousands of artifacts earlier then 4th dynasty, most of them seems to be from 1-3rd dynasty but more then a few could be pre dynastic but never been really well investigated, no one is really interested and a study from 2019 just dug a couple of test pits in the area, didn't found anything before 4th dynasty so they concluded Kroner was wrong without even looking at any of the artifacts he found. Far too few archaeologists are just not interested in anything other then their 2 favorite periods and that makes things a lot harder, all the periods are interesting even if less interesting monuments were built or not.
Earliest Egypt was ruled by many chieftains up and down the Nile Valley. Narmer conquered them all and unified the country into the world's first nation state. Ancient Egypt is incredible!
You have to appreciate the sheer volume of Egypts existence when we're discussing how far back a certain civilization goes and the numbers 3,000 and 5,000 years are thrown around as casually as "off by a few decades". It must have been a weird weird feeling waking up in the first day in a post Pharaonic world. Sure by Roman times it was basically an ancient Disneyland but I mean the actual end to the entire idea and world of Khemet, be it native run, Hyksos, Ptolemaic, etc. And compared to when, say, the denizens of Constantinople hearing of the fall of the Western Empire. Or going back further, the folks of Cornwall watching all their Roman friends pack their stuff and leave the island for good. Egypt wasn't so much a nation as a force of human nature in its heyday. Now I'm left to wonder, albeit unrelatedly, if say, Greeks and Romans who adhered to the Isis religion took pilgrimages to Aegyptus like an ancient Hajj.
As with every other civilization in human history, Egypt probably started as a bunch of disconnected city states that slowly connected through trade routes and conquest over the course of centuries
For Egypt it was religious beliefs that connected the people, for Egypt already was rich due to the fertile lands of the river nile, it was foreign conquest that actually spilt ancient Egypt,
The photo you have used in discussing some of the predynastic kings seem to be wearing the crown of lower Egypt as opposed to the conical one that even Osiris wears from upper Egypt. This leads to a consideration of the two lands before coming under a single rule. From this we can anticipate that “ godly” rule is a notion from upper Egypt. Why this should be can be debated as that Osiris was the son of a Mesopotamian “god” and was given Egypt to rule while his brother Set, was destined to rule the chaos of Mesopotamia. And how did Osiris get to upper Egypt without going through the lower land? It can be considered as just a religious supernatural concept along with the council of demigods.
Is "hierarchization" (sp?) considered necessary or a natural part of civilization? I always wonder if there were alternate paths history could have taken. Or, another way to put it, if there are other planets where intelligent life evolved, how likely is it that they became hierarchical, with small groups of intelligent beings violently controlling large groups of intelligent beings and asserting their superiority as societal belief? Is it like how the arms race between predator and prey drove biological evolution? Could other societal traits, like a more equitable distribution of power or a societal belief in the inherent worth of life, have driven a different societal evolution?
I wasn’t thinking of aliens or an ancient high-tech civilization. I was actually thinking of where the line is drawn between mythological, legendary and historical. We can use the Iliad and the Odyssey as an example of what may have happened in the pre-dynastic and proto-dynastic period. How many centuries does it take for the historical to slide into the legendary and from the legendary into the mythological? If the notion that theism is simply an expanded form of ancestor worship is correct, how many generations before the first recoded king was it that Osiris was just a man? We have around five millennia of writing, which extends history beyond living memory, but what about the time before that when stories might only be told without being embellished for a generation or two of telling them. How far back do we have to go to find a king Osiris who was killed by his brother and dismembered so that he couldn’t be buried whole for the afterlife? How long after the death of a king by a hippo does it take for a mythological hippo-headed goddess to play a role in the afterlife? At times I wonder if life wouldn’t be easier if I could believe the aliens or ancient high-tech civilization narratives. The people who believe those things tend not to be bothered by a frustrating lack of definitive proof.
The first kings were chieftains of clans and tribes, elected or selected as leaders in battle or for organising ceremonies. The ceremonial role was more prominent. So there's nothing mysterious about it. What is mysterious about Egyptian civilization is how static it was for so many centuries. Also the monopoly of knowledge by the priesthood.
I know it's extremely unlikely but I've always thought it would be cool if the period of gods ruling Egypt had a shadow of truth where all the gods were real human rulers that had become mythologized through the millennia.
I wonder how cohesive the people who built the various "tepe" temple complexes in Turkey were and if they had any contact or connection to the ancient Egyptians who would one day become the builders of great pyramids?
By my, unfortunately quite old at this point, readings I was left under the impression that Egypt's nomoi were considered to be, more or less, the remnants of predinastic independent kingdoms/chiefdoms/city states that were progressively unified in the protodinastic until Menes unified the last two. Is this completely, or only partially, outdated?
I couldn’t help but notice that the scorpion King mace depicts him as a giant, in comparison to the people around him. This looks to be not an exaggeration, but a legitimate depiction based on how the smaller people are holding shades 10 feet tall to keep the king in the shade. Are there any other depictions or stories that show him as a giant? This was a repetitive idea in ancient times that there were real literal giants at least 15 ft. tall.
@@WorldofAntiquity Do you know that we have mummies of the specific people that were depicted as giants? What about all the actual stories they tell of literal giants like in almost every ancient civilization?
One denotes a historical appellation - Upper and Lower Egypt based upon the flow of the Nile - while the other is a modern geographical reference. If he simply said Narmer ruled in "Upper Egypt" people might not understand lacking awareness of what that term denoted. If he says as he does that Narmer ruled in the southern area of the Nile valley = everyone immediately recognizes the reference. So such distinctions might be viewed as "pedantic" one might argue - and hence confusing as you alluded to. One need remember these videos are created to appeal to all - some of whom might lack knowledge of the historical references. He uses a historically accurate depiction of ancient Egypt using correct references to add some additional context by speaking in terms of modern geographical reference points.
@@WorldofAntiquity No, you didn’t. Upper Egypt is where the culture and original Egyptians come from. It would be Indigenous Africans, upper Egypt, then lower Egypt. Foreigners are last to this civilization.
Very nicely summed up & attractively presented. It’s a pity the rulers of the predynastic era & their names are of such uncertainty -Scorpion II & Narmer exempt. I am especially hoping for more reliable evidence for Pen Abu when it comes to the elephant or rhino pictograph of his name. I also hope that Hat-Hor existed & that this ruler was a woman 😊
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🙃🙂🙃😂🙂🙂🙃🙂🙂😉
You need to check those Earliest Egyptian Writing with the Early Egyptian Style Writing Found in Australia.
It is Very Amazing and could Explain the Aussie Styles that showed Up in Egyptian Work such as the Sudden Appearance of a Boomerang Style Weapon
@@thatcanadianwhitetrashguy was it AlienZ who ddi it? should i grab some DMT? or just idiots?
Kings were of England, Egypt called their rulers Pharaohs.
@@hydrolito fantastic stupid virtue signalling attempt. "King is the title given to a male monarch in a variety of contexts". not just "of England". it is perfectly fine to call pharaohs kings. only lame "uh actually" minded goofs would be so pedantic
This is interesting. If Narmer was one of the first kings of unified Egypt, then logically there'd be kings of non-unified Egypt, and proto-kings as well.
Yep archeology in Egypt goes back way further than the Pharoahs, mummies and pyramids everyone is familiar with. There's an entire pre-history that is just as interesting where many of the cultural signifiers we'd come to associate with Pharoahnic Egypt developed. It's not like Egypt just suddenly emerged fully formed as a civilization 5000 years ago, a lot of stuff lead up to that.
@@hedgehog3180
Indeed, but the title was never attributed to Egypt; instead, it was referred to as Kemet. Furthermore, to acquire such extensive knowledge and culture from Africa, they had to traverse the entire continent. Consequently, they resided in numerous regions across Africa to encompass a diverse array of experiences.
Eventually, all the distinct tribes unified at that time to establish ancient Kemet/Egypt. Moreover, internal conflicts necessitated warfare among themselves.
@@Kemet3.0Egypt is just the modern word because we're using English. Its not some far out concept that the ancient Egyptians used their own language for their own terms. The English speaking world learned about Egypt via the Romans, who picked up the name through the Greek Aegyptos
@@Kemet3.0nope
@@SevenCostanzayou can't just say nope ,give your account of why you disagree
This is one of those periods that I am most excited to see new discoveries for!
Same here. I'm sick of all the Alt History folks conjuring up aliens to fill the void.
Egypt--the gift that just keeps on giving...and giving...and giving...and--all right, already. Thanks, David for another fascinating look into the mists of time.
My boy Diodorus! I'm very happy we have his work, even if he does exaggerate a bit. Ok, he exaggerates a lot, but you get my drift! 😆 Thanks Dr. Miano!
It’s fascinating that the royal iconography goes back so far. There’s so much strange and mysterious iconography from the earliest dynasties: the imiut fetish, the “royal placenta,” the coils on the red crown spoken of in the pyramid texts. I wish we had more information from that period
we have more, but egyptologist don’t recognize. We have the gods list of example in Sethis I temple and more.
@@faragraf9380 what doesn’t Egyptology recognize? What’s the god list?
I love this period of history where pre-history slowly transforms into history. It really gives you a feeling of the mists of time, and unlike pre-history where it's basically impossible to know anything specific here there are still names and mysteries to be solved. You get such a tantilizing feeling that if you could just focus your eyes a bit more you can peer beyond the veil of time and see something definite, like noticing an object glinting in the fog far away in a bog. Even if this feeling is purely a mirage it just feels so close that if you could just reach a little bit further you could grab it and that on it's own is enough to inspire wonder and motivate research and learning.
I really appreciate this channel, and others like it. There's so much silly crap out there. I'm grateful that there are real scholars around to set the record straight. Thanks, Doc. 👍
He’s good, but he doesn’t tell us enough about the aliens who created a technologically advanced civilization many thousands of years ago.
@@deepdrag8131 He is not interested in regurgitating those *_"silly crap."_* 🤣
Everything I ever needed to know about Ancient Egypt, I learned from TikTok
@@ThugShakers4Christ - So, you know nothing about ancient Egypt?
@@MossyMozart Miniminuteman started out on TikTok so maybe he knows some stuff.
My first exposure to ancient Egypt was in my 4th grade reader, which had a story of two ordinary Egyptian boys. I pictured in my mind daily life in a setting very similar to the setting in the near by Rio Grande valley, and people living a lifestyle like that of the Anasazi. I considered the source of the story to be ancient to my 9 year old mind, since it was copyrighted in the 1940s, about 15 years before I read it in class. I didn't learn about pharhonic Egypt until later, so I have always been drawn to wanting to know what happened in prehistoric Egypt.
That was extremely interesting. Thanks!!!
Predynastic Egypt is such an intriguing period for me. Thank you for the video.
I've always wondered who the first kings in Egypt were. Thanks for giving us a quality video on the topic.
Yeah, sadly we are still wondering the same thing but hopefully will future archaeologists find more clues. The real problem though is that before Pharaoh Scorpion I hieroglyphs doesn't seem to exist so we are kinda stuck to later king lists and guesses based on pictures before that.
History with Cy also had a good episode on the pre dynastic period in his series to cover all dynasties (he is currently on the 19th dynasty) which is worth a look if you are interested in the early period.
We also have a lot of more information on upper Egypt then lower, the Maadi of lower Egypt are more of a mystery. We know they actually did something in Giza based on 30 or so pottery shards found there but we don't know what. They did like to make underground dwellings... They require even more digging.
@@loke6664They mentioned an origin from Punt in their stories. Long forgotten history or whatever most likely.
@@JayKahns Those stories are a lot later though, so while I don't think we should just write them off, neither do I think we can just take their word for it.
Let's call it one possibility. Likelier they were in what's now the desert until the green Sahara period started to wane off and settled in upper Egypt where the Nile kept everything green.
That lead to a higher population density which is how most civilizations start out.
Once Upper Egypt got powerful enough, Narmer conquered lower Egypt from the Maadi and became the first real Pharaoh.
@@JayKahns PUNT is modern day somalia. Be careful sir. This is why hawass cannot say anything. It destroys islam immediately because AL’LAT was worshipped in arabia before allah in 579ad. AL’LAT is the black ethiopian women. AL-UZZA is another name for her worship. KUSHITE blacks ruled arabia by the millions+. They began sharia law and beheaded Arabs first.
Dude all you have to do is look up the kemetic Kings list it's 65,000 year history of the rulers of Egypt aka kemet aka the black land, also people don't read Alexander the great's diary he tell you why the Greeks and pretty much every other nation on earth lusted after the land for thousands of years I could go deeper but I'm not going to cuz I don't want to offend nobody 😊
This video is amazing. The explanation of the origins of the well known later Egyptian civilizations [plural!] is essential to counteract the falsehoods peddled by grifters and fantasists. Some of the tiles shown feature an animal and a possible glyph. Such things are valuable keys to unlock the past, but are frequently and eagerly misused by some to create alternate, proof-free, narratives.
The holes on the tiles could indicate that they might be decorations, talismans, or merchandise tags or counters. They resemble tiles associated with the Indus Valley Civilization. They also resemble the playing tiles and cards used in East Asia [Hanafuda in Japan, Hwa Tu in Korea]. They could just as easily be teaching/learning material, this mark = this thing. One of the glyphs resembles an ancient Chinese character for water.
Instead of using the unsound, childish method of "looks like" means "is," critical thinking must be employed. Ask a child to make a picture of water, and wavy lines are most likely to be drawn, which resembles the character = water 漢字 -> ≋ -> 水. This understanding of depiction becoming symbol, sign or glyph is crucial to interpreting ancient relics. It has to be carefully used so as not to become the mode of charlatans, "I think so, therefore it is true," so familiar in the presentations of the notorious grifters Error von Dummkopf and Grayman Handschlock.
Thanks Prof. Miano for your lucid explanations of ancient history and archaeology, so necessary not only to dispel false narratives, but to enlighten the public and promote understanding of our ancestors and the civilizations that they have made.
I agree that false narratives are a dime a dozen, and I understand the scientific method very well. But how does that Chinese ideogram look anything like water? I’m quite interested in the origins of East Asian writing just as much as Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Mesoamerican. It’s said to be written on animal bones during the Shang Dynasty, but I wonder whether it goes back further than that… So many mysteries to be solved, and enjoyed in the process.
Wavy lines to represent water are usually horizontal, but to represent a river or stream vertical. The modern Chinese character for water is ㊌ though in decorative use it can be written as three vertical wavy lines. I have seen use of wavy lines on objects made by native Americans.
I am not suggesting the 19th century idea of single origin for everything, nor the idea that everything is independently arrived at. The problem is that both things are possible, there being clear evidence for pyramids being independently developed, while some things have been shared by trade or conquest. The error is "one size fits all" thinking.
If you are specifically referring to my description of the tile depicted in the video; looks like, or similar to do not mean identical. The 2nd tile from the right, top row, looked like it might be water flowing from a spring or a flower or a bunch of scallions.
You probably know that linguists sometimes try to find a relation between languages by natural sounds, i.e. "wa wa"is a baby sound, so it may be pronounced that way in Latin, it is more like the dog sound to Japanese and Chinese. That method is fraught. We think that dogs say "bow wow" or "woof woof" but Koreans think it's "mong mong."
It is my contention that graphic representation is less problematic, though not at all perfect.@@dukeon
The Qustul incense burner is also good evidence for early Pharaonic iconography. It has many similarities to upper Egyptian rock art and A-group Nubia. Also the various use of Medu Neter in serveral African societies is quite interesting.
Very interesting indeed. Imagine if Bruce Williams never made this information known, folks would still speculate the pre-dynastic continuity regarding motifs, poetry, and culture contributions.
It's called dabqaad
Nice that you showed what Günter Dreyer believed were proto hieroglyphs, which makes a lot of sense. Those certainly help to understand previous pre-dynastic iconography, as well as the origin of dynastic hieroglyphs of course
I’ve always been very curious and fascinated with pre-dynastic Egypt and it’s origins. Well, honestly not just Egypt, most ancient civilizations fascinate me, especially their likely origins. My uncle (archaeologist) and I are always discussing this, especially the early Peruvian cultures, but often encapsulates Asia and Africa. I love this subject so much, I wish I had made it part of my career.
I think what I like most about your blogs David is how well you outline the things about the subject that we don’t know. A very important aspect sadly overlooked by many. Keep up the good work!
Having watched Cy's "Egypt, Dynasty by Dynasty", I appreciate your take on this period as well. I hope more information will some day be unearthed.
One of my very favorite topics! I’m already excited and the video just started 🍿
It's interesting how in a way, Egyptians seemed to consider their country only truly began existing after the unification of the north and the south, and everything before that was ignored and forgotten as if it was unimportant.
I am not sure that is what they did, but the hieroglyphs were not so widely used before Narmer, the oldest were the primitive one found in Scorpion Is grave (the large showed in this vid).
The old Kingdom still showed some of them on their king list while the new Kingdom doesn't even mention Narmer and call the first Pharaoh "Menes" which could have been a another name for him or not, but it is strange that he is called Narmer in all the old Kingdom writings.
I think it have more to do with the fact that there was an enormous span of time between the pre dynastic period and the New kingdom who forgot all the names. We are talking 2000 years there. about the same time as between us a Cleopatra. Add to that the lack of pre dynastic monuments and I don't think it is too far fetched that they were forgotten.
We still have gaps in the English king list for the 6th and 7th century today and that is in a shorter period.
If the New kingdom lacked access to an old kingdom kings list, I think there is no mystery if they had forgotten all the pre dynastic kings. Someone like Khufu who built a huge pyramid they did certainly remember but I don't think we certainly know of any other building by king Scorpion the first then his large grave and the New kingdom scholars hardly knew of it either.
@@loke6664 Those are all good points!
That’s because those who believe that are descendants of foreigners and nor kin to the foundational Egyptians who knows those origins.
Loved this video! Very timely for me as I've been reading a lot about predynastic Egypt in the last few months and last weekend I went to Manchester Museum where there's a lot of predynastic pottery.
Ooh, thanks. I’ll have to visit that museum.
It's wonderful! My friend told me that Manchester has one of the largest collections of ancient Egyptian artefacts outside Egypt. 😃
What a great video! Hadn't heard of U-239 before; amazing that the mace-scene potentially goes back that far!
The Crocodile King was named Mck Dndy and his palace was in Hmpti Du
Yes, his chancellor was ihatethebush
Thanks again for an interesting video. Would you consider doing a video on Nabta Playa and the level of Egyptian astronomical and scientific knowledge up to the Hathor temple at Dendera?
Hey David thank you!! one question, how about the Turin Papyrus? That list stretches back quite more than the Palermo Stone right? i wonder if you think the Turin Papyrus is a valuable document for historians, or to be dismissed, and if so why.
The Turin King List definitely carries the tradition about the gods ruling Egypt prior to the 1st dynasty. If it is from the 19th dynasty, as is generally thought, then it is the earliest example of this tradition. You are right to bring it up, and I should have mentioned it.
@@WorldofAntiquity Speaking more about the Palermo Stone, how likely is it that the first kings on that list were the first names ever recorded?
I like so much your video. It's very interesting. There are still many gaps about those protodynastic reigns.
Pre-dynastic Egypt was a changing landscape. Desertification happened quickly. Just a few centuries, from green to sand. This is a "seasonal", periodical, proces which has happened hundreds of times, past millions of years. From a rich landscape to the life line, the Nile, in a hostile place. When we think of Egypt we think in monochrome: yellowish. This was a new situation, in which they found themselves, which might have lead to formation of these power structures.
Fascinating! thank you for sharing this knowledge with us !
Excellent video. This was very informative for a time period often filled with confusion and mystery. It is fascinating to think there could have actually been a historical base for the Scorpion King (as there is with a lot of mythology). And to think there could have been pre-Dynastic rulers in Egypt as far back as 3,800 BC. You have done a very good job at presenting this time period. Thank you.
Excellent video! I didn’t even know about Scorpion I I’m gonna need to do a deep dive on what’s earlier than the Scorpion II mace. Thank you for this!
Thanks Dr. Miano, that was great!
And thank you!
Can you please tell us more about the oldest king with the feather headdress from 3800 BC?
That is utterly fascinating and mysterious. Is there any idea what his name was based on his tomb?
Your content is always tops...
❤👍❤
Thank you for creating this video.Such an interesting period.Far be it for me to mention anything, however..
In the period you are discussing circa 5,000 years ago the area was undergoing huge climatic change.
Whilst living next to a river is always a good place to settle there were huge inland (western now desert) lakes and rivers ,indeed you reference the desert rock carvings.
It’s perfectly possible that these ‘kings’ were indeed the very first ‘settled kings’ as prior to this it appears that the population was largely nomadic Hunter gatherers as the abundance of ( depicted) wildlife allowed for this simpler lifestyle.
Having said that I appreciate proto farming had started 5k earlier with Natufian etc.
Like your art of vivid talking and gestures - makes it much more interesting! Very interesting topic anyway! I was very impressed of all the ancient glpyhs remains when you visit Luxor, Karnak, Thebes and all these ancient sites. Still so well preserved and some even with colors! Nowhere you feel so close to ancient history than in egypt!
Awesomw video as always Dr. Miano, and a very good glimpse over this yet obscure period.
Who knows what the new findings will tells us... I only know that to find the tomb of Scorpion II you'll need to go to Ahm Shere... 🤔
Nicely done, David. Coveted all the main points.
Question: How would rate your hieroglyphs skills?
I can't help but compare the mace head showing Scorpion opening an irrigation channel to a commemorative plate of some 19th century dignitary opening a bridge!
Good research.Fascinating
That was so interesting, thanks
I was so happy to see a new video! I needed my dose of "Believe the experts, everything else is speculation".
One of your best: at least the equal to your wonderful travel guide videos. Makes me wonder at the development of urban settlements from the Badaran on down. Anyway, great channel.
Fantastik! Love finding any info on earlier times. Actual info not guessing
I hope we can learn more about the pre dynasty kings. What was Egypt like in the neolithic or mesolithic.
I’m loving the graphics!! 👍🏼👍🏼 Really enjoy your channel!!!
Great video
This is like calling the Saxon kings the first kings of the United Kingdom. It was a different kingdom.
You can't compare saxon kings in 8th century A.D to the story of African nile valley culture in 3100BC that's just stupid they are completely different concepts
More than likely the early kings were either the Dinka, Nuer, or Shilluk. When I was at Georgetown there were two Dinka men who were not only giant sized, but intellectual giants. It's no doubt that their ancestors were the beginning.
Im very interested in these very earlyest times of Egypt! I hope more of dynasty 00 and 0 will come out of the sands.
This video was epic! Thanks for the gems! 😊
So it was like Jarls/Lords/Tribe Leaders who at some point all came together through something lost to time. But the fact they came together to create a super civilization tens of thousands of years before the rest of us, absolutely fascinating.... How. How did they do it??????
I am certain that Scorpion was either the eldest brother of Narmer who ruled briefly or even the same person as Narmer.
Some historians think Scorpion II actually was the same person as Narmer... Since we never found his grave I don't think you should be certain, but it is rather likely he was either the father or brother of Narmer. It would be a bit strange if Narmer, Menes and Scorpion II was all the same person though but I could see Scorpion II changing his name to Narmer if he conquered lower Egypt.
However, all this is speculations and we can't be 100% sure there wasn't one or even several forgotten rulers between them.
My bet would be father or older brother though, but that is still just a guess based on what we know so far.
Neither can we be sure Scorpion II ruled briefly.
@@loke6664 Eh, just a theory of mine since we only have a few artifacts that are associated with scorpion II
@@saulgoodmangaming3460 Yeah, it is certainly plausible but I reacted on the word "certain" and very little is really certain about pre dynastic Egypt.
Heck, we don't really have that mush about Narmer either even if it is more then from any pre dynastic Pharaoh. Our best artifact from him is really the Narmer palette which is very helpful and together with an inscription showing Narmer marching towards upper Egypt with his army on a cliff the proof we had Narmer united Egypt.
But already there, you can date that changes in culture and artifacts from the same time which helps us immensely..
We need a lot more archaeology focus on early dynastic and pre dynastic Egypt, most of the archaeology have been focused on the old and the new kingdom, already shadowing the middle kingdom and the 2 intermediate periods and far so more the pre dynastic.
And some pre dynastic finds have been ignored, like the Kroner pits in Giza that had thousands of artifacts earlier then 4th dynasty, most of them seems to be from 1-3rd dynasty but more then a few could be pre dynastic but never been really well investigated, no one is really interested and a study from 2019 just dug a couple of test pits in the area, didn't found anything before 4th dynasty so they concluded Kroner was wrong without even looking at any of the artifacts he found.
Far too few archaeologists are just not interested in anything other then their 2 favorite periods and that makes things a lot harder, all the periods are interesting even if less interesting monuments were built or not.
@@loke6664 interesting
Earliest Egypt was ruled by many chieftains up and down the Nile Valley. Narmer conquered them all and unified the country into the world's first nation state. Ancient Egypt is incredible!
No Narmer United upper and lower Egypt 2 kingdoms.
That is why all Pharaohs wore the double crown.
You could have learned that in this video
Alright, my guy, I just need a little plutonium for my time machine and I'll go check it out. I got you.
I find your discussion very interesting.
Thanks!
And thank you!
Excellent just what l was looking for....✨️✨️✨️✨️✨️🍀🍀🌷🌷💞
I'm so obsessed with "history" before the history.
this is all covered in Stargate, a great documentary
This is giving Alton Brown "Good Eats" vibes!! I loved that show! And I enjoyed this too!
Good video per usual man
Mr. Beat brought me here. Thank you Dr. David.
Thank you 🤙🦘
Much appreciated. And, ironic because of your comment about ancient aliens, it was actually very useful for a science fiction novel I'm writing. :)
I will pay for anything predynastic Egypt or early American like Olmec. I love your content and everything you do here.
Thanks so much!
Great video, thanks!
hey now, take it easy on us ancient alien blokes ;)
You have to appreciate the sheer volume of Egypts existence when we're discussing how far back a certain civilization goes and the numbers 3,000 and 5,000 years are thrown around as casually as "off by a few decades".
It must have been a weird weird feeling waking up in the first day in a post Pharaonic world. Sure by Roman times it was basically an ancient Disneyland but I mean the actual end to the entire idea and world of Khemet, be it native run, Hyksos, Ptolemaic, etc. And compared to when, say, the denizens of Constantinople hearing of the fall of the Western Empire. Or going back further, the folks of Cornwall watching all their Roman friends pack their stuff and leave the island for good.
Egypt wasn't so much a nation as a force of human nature in its heyday.
Now I'm left to wonder, albeit unrelatedly, if say, Greeks and Romans who adhered to the Isis religion took pilgrimages to Aegyptus like an ancient Hajj.
As with every other civilization in human history, Egypt probably started as a bunch of disconnected city states that slowly connected through trade routes and conquest over the course of centuries
For Egypt it was religious beliefs that connected the people, for Egypt already was rich due to the fertile lands of the river nile, it was foreign conquest that actually spilt ancient Egypt,
To be summing up the history of Egypt,
they waisted an awful lot of time before they got to build those pyramids
Excellent as always
What are the narrow openings between the chambers @ 11:02 ? They seem like passageways but you would have to turn sideways to pass through.
YES! i'm so interested in this!!!
Thank you!! Also, love your Mova globe 😁😁❤
IT's crazy to think that we're discussing someone who lived over five thousand years ago. What could be buried in the past?
Love your videos
Love this ❤️
Another great video, which for me falls into the category "things i didn't know i needed to know"! 😂
The photo you have used in discussing some of the predynastic kings seem to be wearing the crown of lower Egypt as opposed to the conical one that even Osiris wears from upper Egypt. This leads to a consideration of the two lands before coming under a single rule. From this we can anticipate that “ godly” rule is a notion from upper Egypt. Why this should be can be debated as that Osiris was the son of a Mesopotamian “god” and was given Egypt to rule while his brother Set, was destined to rule the chaos of Mesopotamia. And how did Osiris get to upper Egypt without going through the lower land? It can be considered as just a religious supernatural concept along with the council of demigods.
Why do we bother talking about any other pharaohs when there’s one named Scorpion II?
Ancient Egypt is such a fantasy land for me. Up there with the Minoans and Ancient Greeks. 🔥🔥🔥
Is "hierarchization" (sp?) considered necessary or a natural part of civilization? I always wonder if there were alternate paths history could have taken. Or, another way to put it, if there are other planets where intelligent life evolved, how likely is it that they became hierarchical, with small groups of intelligent beings violently controlling large groups of intelligent beings and asserting their superiority as societal belief? Is it like how the arms race between predator and prey drove biological evolution? Could other societal traits, like a more equitable distribution of power or a societal belief in the inherent worth of life, have driven a different societal evolution?
I wasn’t thinking of aliens or an ancient high-tech civilization. I was actually thinking of where the line is drawn between mythological, legendary and historical.
We can use the Iliad and the Odyssey as an example of what may have happened in the pre-dynastic and proto-dynastic period. How many centuries does it take for the historical to slide into the legendary and from the legendary into the mythological? If the notion that theism is simply an expanded form of ancestor worship is correct, how many generations before the first recoded king was it that Osiris was just a man?
We have around five millennia of writing, which extends history beyond living memory, but what about the time before that when stories might only be told without being embellished for a generation or two of telling them. How far back do we have to go to find a king Osiris who was killed by his brother and dismembered so that he couldn’t be buried whole for the afterlife? How long after the death of a king by a hippo does it take for a mythological hippo-headed goddess to play a role in the afterlife?
At times I wonder if life wouldn’t be easier if I could believe the aliens or ancient high-tech civilization narratives. The people who believe those things tend not to be bothered by a frustrating lack of definitive proof.
Can you make a video about Turin Papyrus?
Thank You!!!
The first kings were chieftains of clans and tribes, elected or selected as leaders in battle or for organising ceremonies. The ceremonial role was more prominent. So there's nothing mysterious about it.
What is mysterious about Egyptian civilization is how static it was for so many centuries. Also the monopoly of knowledge by the priesthood.
I know it's extremely unlikely but I've always thought it would be cool if the period of gods ruling Egypt had a shadow of truth where all the gods were real human rulers that had become mythologized through the millennia.
Great video as always! Uncharted x was just on koncrete said proof of ancient computers, let me save you the time there was no proof at all lol
Fascinating.
Thanks!
I think the earliest part of civilization is the most exciting.
I wonder how cohesive the people who built the various "tepe" temple complexes in Turkey were and if they had any contact or connection to the ancient Egyptians who would one day become the builders of great pyramids?
By my, unfortunately quite old at this point, readings I was left under the impression that Egypt's nomoi were considered to be, more or less, the remnants of predinastic independent kingdoms/chiefdoms/city states that were progressively unified in the protodinastic until Menes unified the last two. Is this completely, or only partially, outdated?
3:20 this timestap skips the advertisement
Tak!
Thank you!
I couldn’t help but notice that the scorpion King mace depicts him as a giant, in comparison to the people around him. This looks to be not an exaggeration, but a legitimate depiction based on how the smaller people are holding shades 10 feet tall to keep the king in the shade.
Are there any other depictions or stories that show him as a giant?
This was a repetitive idea in ancient times that there were real literal giants at least 15 ft. tall.
Kings all through Egyptian history were drawn larger for symbolic reasons. Since we have many of the kings' mummies, we know they were normal size.
@@WorldofAntiquity Do you know that we have mummies of the specific people that were depicted as giants? What about all the actual stories they tell of literal giants like in almost every ancient civilization?
@@DestinyLabMusic Yes, we have mummies of people that are depicted this way.
Is it common to switch between North & South Nile to Lower & Upper Nile? It was confusing for my kid, but fortunately I knew enough to explain it.
One denotes a historical appellation - Upper and Lower Egypt based upon the flow of the Nile - while the other is a modern geographical reference. If he simply said Narmer ruled in "Upper Egypt" people might not understand lacking awareness of what that term denoted. If he says as he does that Narmer ruled in the southern area of the Nile valley = everyone immediately recognizes the reference.
So such distinctions might be viewed as "pedantic" one might argue - and hence confusing as you alluded to. One need remember these videos are created to appeal to all - some of whom might lack knowledge of the historical references. He uses a historically accurate depiction of ancient Egypt using correct references to add some additional context by speaking in terms of modern geographical reference points.
I understand@@varyolla435 my kid's problem was switching back and forth in one video.
So it all began in Nubia!!!!!😃 Great work!!!!
From north to south it's: Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt, Nubia.
@@WorldofAntiquityYou mean from the south to the north.
@@The_Truth- No, I stated it correctly.
@@WorldofAntiquity No, you didn’t. Upper Egypt is where the culture and original Egyptians come from. It would be Indigenous Africans, upper Egypt, then lower Egypt. Foreigners are last to this civilization.
@@The_Truth- I guess you don't know what "from north to south" means.
I thought U-239 was a submarine 😅
Very nicely summed up & attractively presented. It’s a pity the rulers of the predynastic era & their names are of such uncertainty -Scorpion II & Narmer exempt. I am especially hoping for more reliable evidence for Pen Abu when it comes to the elephant or rhino pictograph of his name. I also hope that Hat-Hor existed & that this ruler was a woman 😊
Nieth-Hotep preceded Narmer