He wants to be the closest from being the new mother of the fingers. And to do that, he needs to take her remembrance from us. I guess he doesn't know how to replicate a remembrance unlike Gideon.
@@GreebleClown He went crazy long ago according to the lore as he discovered more of the truth. He turned the sister of a loyal knight into a puppet to attack us. We've been helping their cause since the start of the questline so my guess is that Anna refused to attack us without reason. We can tell Jolan that a Anna attacked us but she won't believe anyone other than Ymir. Ymir then told some bs with an oscar award winning acting to Jolan for her to attack us. Combining Jolan's spirit ashes with Anna's puppet is an act of mercy. Too bad they didn't really know that we could be the prophecied lord of the night in age of stars ending. They just had the misfortune of serving a madman.
If I had a nickel for every time the daughter of lovecraftian gods were abandoned to a lesser plane, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but's it's weird that it happened twice, right?
Sooo the finger mother and ebrietas? What about kos herself? And what about actual lovecraft mythos creatures like cthylla, yidhra and shub niggurath among others... Surprisingly common occurrence it seems.
Metyr: "Just hang on, the microcosm is still trying to connect..." Three Fingers: "RESET THE ROUTER. SEND IT ALL BACK TO ONE WIFI CONNECTION." Elden Beast: "No don't! I'm still playing The Golden Order and can't lose my progress!"
Aw poor Metyr, she just got stuck in that eldest sibling role after their parents abandoned them… trying to raise the others the best she can while scared and confused herself.
Which fate is harder? Messmer or Metyr... Both lost in transmission, but metyr at least can continue to create new life while messmer can only destroy... Also it seems a bit cliche only the male antagonists do cry for a mother and never a female... So I guess, 2 fingers are male (hello? I technical support?) while 3F are female (hello little tarnished *hug*... I sacrifice myself giving you my power to endure - just forget about blondy braid bit... )
And if Metyr is Placidusaxes god then she also left her husband clueless where she went. And we to this day see Placidusaxes trying to call to her in his intro. Twisting his necks into a spiral simular to Metyrs tail.
@@draw2death421 if you look at the talisman - placidusax has all his heads stretched up in the air, too. And the time stop anytime after his victory to Bayle... His domain is a very high position compared to metyr in a lair underground (BTW FYI metyrs lair lies exactly deep beneath shaman village, not beneath the ruins myr as it seams)... both metyr and placidusax and the 2 fingers are all in the same waiting position as antenna
Close, the Greater Will is a cosmic parasite. A powerful one. He creates worlds in order to feed off of his creation. His kids are nothing but farmers. When he has finished setting up his farm, he yeets out into the cosmos to make another. That’s why I believe we see so many “trees” in the Elden Beasts arena. Each one represents a world he has created to tap for resources. His “children” are nothing more than hyper powerful ants. Following orders to a T and then falling to complete chaos when those orders are lost.
@@beniron5807 The trees during the Elden Beast's fight aren't from the Greater Will; they are from the Golden Order, because both the Elden Ring and the Elden Beast still represent the Golden Order's tennets during that moment. They are embodiments of the "Marika the Eternal" figure and her Order. To kill the Elden Beast is the same as killing the Goldern Order and the Goddess Marika (nor Marika the human/numen/shaman), allowing the world and thus the Ring and the Beast to be reborn once more, into a new and (hopefully) "better" form.
ACtually it seems implied that they are the ones that wounded metyr herself. its both why she is so hidden away, has that wound on her belly, and that we are able to kill her without the figner slaying blade. My guess the blade allows the killing of an immortal thing as the fingers, so close to garce, are immortal like we are in game. Its possible the wound is what brought the finger creepers into existence, crawling from her gash and into the world, but they are something they can control.
My own speculation about the Greater Will is that it always intended to develop things to a certain point, and then leave. A system that requires constant outside intervention to maintain stability isn't truly ordered. The Greater Will wants a world that is self-sustaining and self-ordering. So having guided the world to the point of developing civilization, it sent the Elden Ring as a tool for its creations to order themselves how they chose, went radio silent, and sat back to watch what would happen. I think this applied to Metyr too; she was expected to leave behind her previous role as the GW's mouthpiece and create her own purpose and order in life. But she couldn't handle that, and convinced herself that if she just begged long and hard enough, the GW would relent and give her guidance again. This delusion is what rendered her and her children "broken." The Greater Will is the mother bird tossing her chicks out of the nest and waiting to see if they'll fly or break their necks.
I still wonder if Metyr is Placidusaxes Fled god. The twisting tail of metyr and the twisting heads of placidusax in his intro really makes me feel like Miyazaki wanted us to connect these two. So makes me wonder if Placidusaxes Twisting head position was suposed to be him trying to connect to metyr.
Twisting forms/spirals/braids in ER lore are mostly rappresentative of nerves and spinal cord ... MArika's shape on the cross and Metyr themselves resemble the shape of the spine, upper and lower parts
The greater will pretty much just stepped in once but never again. From the lore of Elden ring it was there but it couldn’t be seen or felt. The fingers pretty much lost their purpose which was ironically explained by Gideon.
Its possible that when metyr was cut off from the greater will. This caused the split between the 2 and 3 fingers. The 3 fingers, likely were driven mad by metyr's cutoff and sought to burn everything
If u speculate about the split in form of a full hand 5-3=2. That's already heavily disagreed in analysis of the models exposed... 3 finger anatomy doesn't fit and even if so it would be the opposite hand... I guess it is more the concept of duality (ordered) versus the chaos of 3 (prime number / 3body problem etc)
@@JeremyDeere I was on the same boat before, but u can search for the video someone exposed the 3d models of all fingers in the base game incl. Rannis... Nothing fits together as one hand
So basically my theory long before that the Frenzied Flame ending was the "best" ending kinda made sense. When the Greater Will left, the fingers tried to continue blindly thus each having their own "agenda" causing everything that resulted to the Shattering. The 3 fingers sought to end it all, restart from the start rather than trying to fix a thing that was already broken.
My idea is that maybe the greater will abandoned the lands between because it wanted them to decide their own fate for themselves, rather than constantly telling them how to live their lives. It sort of mirrors marika’s statement to her children but I could definitely be wrong The whole idea of heresy and the greater will only wanting the lands between to be a specific way may have just been a lie created by marika and/or the fingers to maintain power
That’s actually implied because the he greater will is the creator of everything and nothing all at once it’s a deity that does not want to take away free will
I think the Greater Will is more like the Abrahamic Deity. The Fingers never received signals from it just like Kings in the medieval ages were never chosen by God
I think it possible Metyr was wounded by the Nox with Fingerslayer Blade and that what caused her to lost connection with the Greater Will. Since we now know the Two Finger never had direct connection to the Greater Will to begin with, then it more than likely that the "high treason" the Nox had committed was made an attempt on Metyr's life rather than kill some Two Fingers. Interestingly enough, on Metyr's right chest there is also a wound that look like a cut wound as well.
There are no signs either metyr ever left it's place or any outer influence in this place... To me these marks look less like wounds and more like additional organic breed mechanics. And if there had been intruders before to harm metyr I guess Ymir had done more preparations than only a secret button on his left throne... There is also the puppet Anna down there - a carian thing. Both carian and nox seem to had a similar point of view of the worthiness of artificial life creation..while golden order (2fingers) definitely not tolerant to this. I guess the finger blade is an instrument created especially against 2fingers and not fingers in general
@@normanbates7373 If you look at her Remembrance , the wound is nowhere to be seen while her other features still intact. So we can assumed this was not on her originally. And while artificial life are shun by the Golden Order, it is not exactly "high treason" since the Fingerslayer Blade specifically states "This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City" meaning it has been used before, but I doubt the Greater Will would really consider it high treason if they were just killed some Two Fingers since they existence are even less significant than we originally thought. Also "Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals." it was made against the Greater Will in general, not just the Two Fingers.
@@donimmortal7692 good points, but only the 2 fingers are the popes of the greater will. And only the 2 fingers do give the empirian their "fate" of becoming a god. While the 3 fingers only embrace the one who has chosen his fate himself.
It kinda feel like the Greater Will always wanted humanity to decide the fate of the world. All it's action are kinda consistent with that. The guidance of grace leads the tarnish to tear down all the remains of the previous order. Goldmask seemingly comunes with the greater will, and the answer is an elden ring that gods cannot change on a whim. I don't think goldmasks ending is stripping the world of free will, as that is to similar to Miquella's plan, and the guidance of grace leads the tarnished to stopping him. Yet again, the greater will opposing another god. Is it possible the fire giant war wasn't even about the fire that can destroy the Erdtree, but a fellow deity the Greater will didn't want controlling mortals? But admittedly I'm not exactly well versed in the deepest lore of this game.
That's kind of the same idea I had, and additionally I think maybe Marika's imprisonment might not have *just* been for shattering the elden ring but it may have also been done as punishment for her actions during her reign
But iirc, it was Marika, not the greater will, that guided us there. Ppl from the lands between think it was the GW who gave grace back to the tarnished and brought the tarnished from across the fog, but we know it was Marika after Melina tells us her dialogue with Godfrey and his warriors. Im am 99% sure the GW never guided us in any capacity and the guidance of grace was given by Marika alone
I've noticed the two bells you have to blow in order to progress Ymir's questline are direcly above two divine towers: Malenia's and Radhan's ... and no other divine tower is aligned that way. I really hope someone will connect some dots with this info!
I've noticed the two bells you have to blow in order to progress Ymir's questline are direcly above two divine towers: Malenia's and Radhan's ... and no other divine tower is aligned that way. Considering that space-time in ER is not linear, what if the tarnished itself triggered the Caleid clash, sending some signal to their fingers? What if you are the cause of the lost guidance... by killing Metyr?
I always liked the thought that we as the player are the greater will... and we use tarnished like puppets. One after the other, collecting multiple playthroughs and at the end, fighting the Elden Beast... it's not just other player's worlds in the trees in the background, but a few of those are our other saves. lol 😕Cheers! 🍻
Ahh yes, the tarnished achieves CHIM and is nothing more than the dream giving purpose to the dreamer that Shor/Lorkhan may finally ascend to the realm of the Amoranth/Greater will and finally dream their own dream. When the dream no longer needs the dreamer; when the dream no longer needs the dreamer indeed.
Yes, the Elden Ring and Elden Beast were summoned by Marika at the gate to create her golden order. It seems before that Farum Azula likely had some understanding of the ring, but that may have lived with them alone.
@@square-table-gaming ..... i got a weird theory t othrow at ya here. Metyr herself lost contact with the Greater will because of her injury. The Finger slayer blade was not meant to slay two fingers, but to slay Metyr herself. However the blade failed to strike a mortal blow to her. HOWEVER, twhat it did do is cause the finger crawler to craw out of her wound, and in addition, cut her off from the g reater will. In its absence, she went mad, and manipualted Marika, and other after, to do her bidding and chaos came from thereon. THIS is why we are aeven able to kill her in game. My guess is that the blade cut her off rom grace. Grace is life itself, and being bound to it makes one immortal, like we are. While she lost her connection, the two fingers she births sitll have it. Its why she is hidden so deeply, so well, and so far away from her seat of power. its also possibly why she has such minimal holy based attacks despite being a Finger but also why her tail staff can wield both sorcery and incantations, remnants of what she once was, a link between the Glint and Grace.
Imo I think Marika and her own 2 fingers took over and changed everything, I think that's why Marika kids are all cursed with something and maybe with so many outer gods in the land between maybe that's why there's no more real communication with the outer will
3:37 i don’t think the greater will is placidusax’s “god” that fled the world, i always thought of that god as at the same level as Marika, as Placidusax was an elden lord. Making that leap just because both Placudisax and Metyr were abandoned by something seems unwarranted to me. Also the elden beast arriving after Placudisax’s god fled (3:46) doesn’t seem right to me, as that would mean all the elden ring (= the elden beast) references in Faram Azula would have been placed there after the fact, when we don’t really have much evidence for that. I’d think it more likely that Placudisax’s god would have fled much closer to Marika coming to power, as we have little precedent for the Lands Between being ruled only by a lord, seems some god is always involved.
There are fingers in midras mansion. I believe midra and nanaya (who was processed by shabriri) infected the 3 fingers with the flame, which caused the greaterwill to abandoned metyr for her ability to be manipulated easily
I think the Three Fingers were originally Two Fingers that were killed by the Fingerslayer Blade and that their corpse was then taken over by an agent of the Frenzied Flame warping them into their current shape. Just like Shabriri and Hyetta hijack the corpses of dead people as it seems the Frenzied Flame, as a force of destruction, cannot actually create anything.
So like. Greater Will cuts a deal with a down bad Marika and establishes the wholenew world order just to get bored and dip, outsourcing its part of the deal to the Fingers and Elden Beast WHO ARE NOT QUALIFIED FOR THIS POSITION. By the time Godwyn got whacked i would be pretty done with the Elden Ring and the Golden Order too. I dont see what Marika did as a betrayal. She finally caved and did the right thing. That gave everyone a chance to carve a new fate whatever it be. Just to spite the Greater Will that elevated her, empowered her do all kids of horrible stuff, and then spurned her. Led on the whole time by a father who was never commited. She woke up one day and said. This is not my beautiful house, this is not my beautiful spouse. Im holding onto lies. Any obligation this world has to the Greater Will is a lie. So smash it. I would rather be stuffed in a jar than face her fate. She did a lot of wrong as God of the Golden Order. And she was a terrible mum. But in the end she did set everyone free and the old girl deserves to rest.
free of what? the greater will is the universe itself and it literally abandon that world before even marika was born. the only thing she did is create more stupidity in a world the greater will already forgot
best theory I could come up with is greater will is symbolism for game development, where it seemingly left the copy in our hands & let us decide what to do with world it created in boundary of world order/game mechanics, that's why 2 & 3 fingers are literally a hand, that we are playing game with...
The order when you visit the finger craters also reveals that the elden beast was the second one, because the second one you visit is near marikas village
It's important to see that the description says "broken and abandoned", maybe after being wounded by the Nox (broken) her connection was severed? That would lead to the arrival of the elden beast and astel, which may not be "sons" but vassals; maybe the GW didnt want to sacrifice another part of his offsprings? The elden beast being order incarnate also implies that the words of hyetta are true: the GW wanted to create a complete distinction between life and death, in opposition to the cycle of the crucible venerated by the hornsent
Of all the lore explorations out there, this one feels the most "useful". From a top-down perspective, you have: 1. The Greater Will's intentions in The Lands Between 2. The Greater Will's actions in The Lands Between 3. The eventual absence of The Greater Will's actions in The Lands Between 4. The intentions of the highest agents of The Greater Will 4. The actions of the highest agents of The Greater Will 5. Everyone else's response to these actions .. Makes the entire story easier to comprehend
An interesting character that I was surprised to see, despite all the fingers in the DLC. I enjoy these videos. Also if I may ask, Why is there no dedicated Video to Godrick the Grafted? He is one of my favorite characters and what he represents in terms of the Golden Order is amazing. Either way fantastic work!
Mostly because when we got started everyone had already thoroughly covered Patrick the grafted. We mentioned him in a few different videos and if you put that all together it basically covers his entire lore. That's sad you're right it wouldn't hurt for us to eventually make something on him
@@square-table-gaming I was just curious. Regardless I found the lore you cover in various videos to be really interesting and thank you for bringing it to all of our attention in detail.
I imagine if our two finger's gets through to the greater will and it finds out all the stuff we pulled from killing metyr/elden beast/ burning the erdtree there is going to be a very unhappy vassal coming our way in a few thousand years.
Honestly The Metyr “reveal” Was duplicious. Very disappointing we didn’t get better lore with the fingers, stars, cosmos and abyss. We already knew the Fingers were full of shit in the base game because of Gideon’s descriptions. New infomation would have been better. Something about how Marika and the fingers actually gained a following, in the first place, which would have been more vital. How did Marika leave her village and assume the role of a God, without a following? Did she just start shacking up? What about Radagon’s Origins? It’s also a shame Fromsoftware has left so much lore, just to Promotional Commercials and Interviews with Miyazaki. A mistep by fromsoftware. If the images of Torrent etc etc., should be taken seriously, they should be included as lore bits on the game.
The “Greater Will” is and always was Miyazaki and its “abandonment” represents him abandoning the lore of the game for those who play it to do with what they will. I was joking earlier calling the deliberate vagueness a “mark of great writing” because while I think it has a place, it is so prevalent in this story as to essentially be the central theme of it. There are many paths you can take, none of them have any real answers or produce any real certainty because this is a story told through visual medium and is therefore heavy handed with it’s symbolism. However it is symbolism for its own sake, having no root of meaning that you can take and run with from a lore perspective. Every question the game posits ends up being open ended and if the intention was to be an analogue of modern life then I think it is brilliant. There is no point to the ambitions of the masses, we can only choose to positively or negatively interact with the world around us and the people we meet. We can choose to exploit or aid those who seem to have no real purpose themselves. Even those who are unflinchingly loyal end up meeting a terrible fate. Nothing positive is rewarded, whether it be bravery, loyalty, honor or ambition, treason and pragmatism. Hell even a character who turned his back on the ambitions of the Tarnished and Volcano Manner to live a quiet life mending living jars died unable to protect them. A guy whose crime was petty robbery had his soul cursed by a madman. I think the moral of the story is that we shouldn’t get tied up in the details but just enjoy the ride because nobody gets a happy ending.
Ayyyyy! I appreciate the shoutout. Love how this turned out, but I would say the anger that metyr harbored from the kowtowing part is an important part. She was big mad about the greaterwill leaving her on read. Either way this came out magnificently 😊
I think this really clarifies the distinction between endings. I may be late to the party, but weather the best ending for you be the Frenzy Flame or the Age of Stars, it’s all subjective. In true souls fashion, it seems the most meaningful ways to change the world are to either destroy the cycle and all it inhabits, or keep it going in hopes you can do it better. (Also the only two endings to have cutscenes so there’s clear favorites from a story standpoint 😭)
I dont think the greater will simply abandoned Metyr. I think she was attacked by the nox the with the finger slayer blade, resulting in the gash in her stomach, that gash resulted in her becoming broken, and like a broken antenna she can not longer receive signals and is not a means by which the greater will can communicate. Then after the greater will sent down astel to punish them and then sent down the elden beast as a replacement.
The problem here is that Metyr communicates through the Microcosm which sits above her tail-fingers. I do agree that the gash in her chest is likely from the Finger-Slayer blade, however the idea that this cut off her connection to the Greater Will is based entirely in speculation and has no written lore to back it up. Also, the Elden Beast serves a different purpose from Metyr, it's the Elden Ring itself, not a means of communication.
@square-table-gaming we dont know exactly how she communicates through the microcosm. The word microcosm etymologically means little world. "human nature, man viewed as the epitome of creation," literally "miniature world" (applied metaphorically to the human frame by philosophers, hence a favorite word with medieval writers to signify "a man"), from Medieval Latin microcosmus, from Greek mikros "small" (see micro-) + kosmos "world" The world microcosm implies it is a smaller scale universe, but based on the music of the second phase the sound is based on the recorded sounds of a black hole, which might imply its functions like a Einstein-rosen bridge. Based on the wording of the english version of the staff of the great beyond (the japanese might state or imply something else) Implies that the microcosm was a one way communication device, or at the very least something akin to a radio, as the fingers and placidusax assume a sort of prayer or a stance like antenna. "The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come." "The crystal ball, though representative of a microcosm, would not receive any sign." So far there is nothing that implies she had the ability to send signals only receive them. if Metyr was indeed damaged by the nox that most likely would interfere with her ability to receive or the very least interpret those messages. Also little known fact that i found out after going through school. Visible light, radio waves, x-rays, and cosmic rays all use photons aka packets of energy that move through space. The only difference is the energy levels or wavelength of that energy. The ability for the fingers to use light to communicate is not too different than how we broadcast radio waves into space. Yes i made a mistake that the elden beast is a replacement, but i do think it serves as a guiding or linking force in the lands between to the greater will. If the Elden Beast is the Elden Ring and the Runes are fragments of the Elden Ring that means it has some influence on people. This may be indicated by the golden hue in people's eyes.
I feel like the Elden beast was a part of metyr. But was stolen from her by marika. In the trailer we see marika take a strain of golden hair from somewhere. It look like it came out of the belly of something. Possible stolen from metyr. That’s why she lost connection to the greater will. Plus the Elden beast looks like the nervous system of a beast potential metyrs.
I always thought that the Greater Will was a sort of Zeus figure. Its domain and effects on the Lands Between far outstretches those of the other Other Gods at the time we play. Before Zeus, there were the Titans, and before them was the primordial void. To me, it feels like the Greater Will is just stepping into someone else's shoes, replacing the Crucible and ushering in its own age without any real thought on what to do. It dabbles in the affairs of mortals and oftentimes doesn't care much for its children. It is also unclear whether the Greater Will is ignoring its children and subjects or if the connection has been entirely cut off. It is sad to see Metyr, who has either been cast out or sent as an envoy, abandoned and left twiddling its fingers.
the greater will is the entire universe, the crucible was born from the greater will, everyone and their moms was only using the name of the greater will to cater power, but the greater will even forgot that world in the first place
another amazing video 🥰Metyr has always interested me because she's the mother of fingers and the speak for the greater will, so thank you for this video 😍💜💜
There's nothing more existentially dreadful than the realization that your god has abandoned you. Even though I never subscribed to the Two Fingers, and tended to believe that they weren't all knowing, the revelation that the Greater Will Was talking to them, but had just fled the land and left us to our own crooked devices was.... oddly scary.
How do we know Placidusax correctly identified who his God was? Couldn’t it be that he thought Metyr was was the source of his power and that it fleeing was related to its womb being cut open?
Im also wondering that. Metyrs tails twist simular to Placidusaxes necks in his intro. So i wonder... was Placidusax trying to call to Metyr who refused to answear? Metyr also flees into her microcosm after the fight so perhaps thats how Placidusax lost her without being able to follow her.
It's pretty funny that we kill Metry and take her remembrance to Enia, yet unlike us, gameplay prevents her from actually learning that her entire existence and everything she believes in is essentially a lie.
I think it's more plausible that Metyr was hurt by the Nox, who created the fingerslayer blade. This in turn broke Metyr's connection to the GW, ans invoked the GW's ire towards the Nox. It would explain why Placidusax's fod flwd too, if that god was Metyr
I'm onboard with the idea that Metyr was attacked by the Nox, I don't believe that would have severed her connection as that connection is implied to come from her tail fingers. If those were gauged or cut up I'd agree.
Algorithm boost you say? I got you. Well, I absolutely adore your videos. I love watching them and learning more about my favorite game. Your videos help me unwind and relax before bed. I appreciate you and your hard work.
That is not actually said anywhere in-game. What we do know is that the Elden Beast itself is the Elden Ring, and that Marika is the physical vessel for the ring. With that said, the fingers don't communicate with the Elden Ring itself. They are "said" to communicate with the greater will, not the Elden Beast, which is a vassal of the greater will.
My theory is that the so-called "Greater Will" doesn't even know that any of this is happening. Not because it's dumb or incapable of knowing, but simply because it regards everything going on in The Lands Between, from Metyr and all the Fingers, the Elden Beast and Elden Ring, the Shattering, Marika, and the Demigods, etc., as insignificant. Not in the sense that it was once paying attention, lost interest, and then just stopped, but more like how we probably step on thousands of bugs just walking through the grass to get to our car, and don't even think twice about it.
I was sure the Matyr stoped comuning with the greater will after it was wounded. Imir whanted her place, to be the only mother. That why he wounded her. Of couse she was wrong. And he was right.
Peculiar observation: The glintstone nails finger spell icon (and the complete spell if segments of it are assembled) resembles the hand of the Elden Beast. If sorcery via glintstone as a conduit can channel power from all sorts of sources (magma sorceries for example invoke the power of the Mt.gelmir volcano), what are the finger sorceries getting theirs from?
I always wondered why the greater will needed both the finger's AND queen marika as vassals to communicate its will. The simple anwser is, it never did. Metyr was broken, unable to commune with the greater will that birthed it. So the greater will sent a beast hurtling to the lands between , one that would find a vessel in an empyrean to carry its will. Metyr however could not accept this. So in her resentment, in her anger, she still sent forth her 2 fingers, her children who were originally destined to spread the message of the greater will, to still influence the world despite being unable to hear the greater will's messages. So we have two competing factions, one who lost connection but still wants control, and another who has connection and has control. So, those without connection cemented themselves as part of the order of those who did that they might reclaim a part of their original purpose.
I always thought it was strange that the opening cinematic outright said that the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between, but then Enia said that they HADN'T been abandoned. Now it all makes sense - it was all BS on behalf of the fingers. Here's a question though - with everything spoken about in this video, could it stand to reason that the Frenzied Flame might also connected to the Greater Will in some way? The Three Fingers are servants of the Frenzied Flame, and if they are all connected to Metyr, could the Frenzied Flame be a distant relation to them, just having a different ideology. OR, maybe the Three Fingers was like the "runt" of the litter and basically abandoned, so the Frenzied Flame (a separate entity) maybe reached out to it and used it as it's pawn? I'm not very good at explaining myself usually, so hope that makes sense. It's just something that cropped in my mind watching the video. Great work as always!
I believe that metyr lost connection with the greater will because of the nox Remember the FINGERSLAYER blade "capable of harming the greater will and its vassals" coated with blood And if we are still arguing marika was atleast aligned with the nox in times past, if not outright one of them, a mimic tear in and of herself as a shaman Marika could have instrumented this great treason, being the betrayal listed in the trailer, it also looks like her ripping the elden ring from metyrs sliced open womb in the trailer, and then she puts it in her own, for we can see it nestled in the womb of her shattered body in the end, adopting metyrs two fingers which were accepted already as being connected to the greater will, and using them as a holy symbol to strengthen her reign I dont believe marikas rule ever was granted by the greater will, that it was all a massive hoax over tens of thousands to hold over power, and the Elden beast just the manifestation of the Elden ring "a symbol of order in the lands between' Jesus typing this out helped me align alot of stuff in the lore, and to be honest, i think i got it right!!
Only thing i kind of miss from old Soul games free range to kill npc. I would probably slaying many the finger readers. At they could give us reason like, folk tale that there is bogeyman, that comes after you if harm the crones.
Pladasudisax is not an Ancient dragon. Special affx of bonus dmg to dragons does not apply to him. He is the only one of his kind. You know another dragon that is one of a kind? BAYLE!!!!!. He has omen horns. Bi-lateral heart. Huge as as hell. And uses the one of two fused elemental powers. The other being Ice Lightning. The weapon of the "failed" dragonkin soldier. To be blunt. I'd wager the Greater Will created Pladasudisax to be a Lord The fire Giants and Nox wanted a Lord of their own, creating Bayle. Pladasudisax lost to a Mimic. He didnt win!. That is why the Greater will left. The people of this Land madr a creater that rivals the Greater Wills
What scares me the most... is we find things like "The One Finger" in her arena, whater that means.. We also know she is the mother of fingers... she birthed the three fingers.. Also, we need to absolutely STOP trusting Ymir. Ymir is completely untrustworthy and only in it for himself.
Could seperating the land of shadows from the rest of the world also have cut Metyr off from the will and her from the fingers leaving the fingers to end up following other gods or even Marika. Then the elden beast being sent after Marika specifically because of this
I think the whole system seems to be thematically to be "unclear". Even if the greater will was still talking to Metyr, we got chinese whispers going on. Think about it: The greater will says something over a great distance, then Metyr will interpret the message, then give it to her two fingers, and then those two fingers are interpreted by the finger readers. The whole idea of finger reading as a way to predict fate, clearly already hints how unprecise all that is. Not just the root, but the whole broken antenna network.
You know when it comes to Metyr I feel we are assuming what we are taking what were told in game is 100% fact rather than taking it as being presented a theory by an NPC. A theory based on what information they found and then filled in the gaps with what evidence they could uncover. And it is one that I feel still leaves room for errors in judgement, especially since Count Ymir doesn't seem all right in the head himself. It is true that Metyr is cut off from the Greater Will. There is more than enough evidence of that. But I still don't feel there is enough evidence to suggest that the world is completely abandoned. Rather I think something happened that cut Metyr off from the Greater Will. How exactly it happened is unclear. It could once again fall back to Merica and her splitting the Land of Shadow from the rest of the world. It could have been due to the meddling of the other outer gods who seem to have taken at least an idle interest in the world of the Lands Between. Or... perhaps an undisclosed event that has only been hinted at via a rather weird but otherwise unremarkable weapon: The Ringed Finger. Now I am unsure how differently the original Japanese description is from the english translation but they key details in its description that it is "believed to have been cut from an ancestor of the finger creepers" and also a "legacy of an ancient act of blasphemy". I feel this is info we have been overlooking for a while and might just be the puzzle piece we need not necessarily to complete the picture but to better see the missing parts of it. And who knows. Maybe there is something else we missed. Something in the finger ruins we overlooked or another base game item that was also passed over that may also connect to the puzzle in some way. The lore of Fromsoft games is like digging up actual history where we don't know exactly what happened in the past but with what knowledge is passed down and what evidence is dug up we can find enough to paint a clearer but not perfect picture of the past. Tis what makes lore diving in these games fun.
I truly think The greater will simply seeds life and leaves an elden ring. It moves on to new places and never spends time on one place in particular. It's considered almighty in the lore but considering the identity issues in the game I think it's just a benevolent outer god, as the Greater will would actually be the One Great that technically doesn't exist anymore. The greater will is just another piece of it as is the God of Rot. The lore is unreliable and biased because that's Elden Beasts goal and everything was absolutely fine until Marika seen it for what it was. A manipulator. The lands between was just fine without the greater will. The way it turns their body into a sword makes me feel like Marika was a puppet and Radagon was a puppet even more so! I wouldn't be surprised if Radagon was literally the beasts hand in manipulating the world and once you kick Radagon a butt it had to come out and deal with you personally.
Finished the ranni questline for a second time today and remembered rather than realized that ranni’s final location is called "cathedral of manus celes" and the architecture , no, the structure of the building itself is exactly like the cathedral of manus metyr (but ruined). Also, a two fingers was destined to land on it (radahn stoping the fate of his family, yknow). What exactly is the link between these 2 locations ? I mean it’s obvious but why is there a cathedral of this type in the lands between ?
I'm not so sure there is a Will (i.e. a thinking existence) behind the Greater Will. Has anyone actually communicated with it? Doesn't Metyr's item just say she saw signs in the Microcosm, not that she actually communed with the Greater Will?
Suggestion for future vids: PLEASE note when there are going to be spoilers about things. A friend who hasn’t finished the DLC, but had completed Ymir’s questline, was watching with me; and now he was spoiled to the fact that Miquella does reach godhood and that Bayle fought with Placidusax. Those two pieces of info were not expected in a lore video about Metyr, because they really aren’t related, so we thought it would be safe.
12:38 I might be missing something, but doesn't Metyr's remembrance explicitly points out that she is the mother to the two fingers, not the three. My takeaway overall is that the Greater Will and its agents are a force for order, whatever shape that may take. The antheses to the Greater Will is the Flame of Chaos, and cosenquently the Three Fingers as well.
The comments are usually hot beds for theories I end up taking for my own. Why are they fingers, though? Did they take on the form of the first human thing they came into contact with?
I love the video, but I think it’s a little off on Placidusax’s god. In my eyes, there was a god before Marika, and that was who fled. Marika is the god and Radagon is the lord (hence why her children are demigods, with Ranni/Radahn/Rykard becoming so when RadaKa merged), so someone else would be the god.
I feel like there are too many connections to Placidusax for metyr not to be his god. Metyr was send down but we never know for who. Metyrs twisting tails are eerily simular to Placidusax twisting heads in his intro cinematic. We also learn Metyr gives orders to two fingers. So Placidusax taking a pose simular to two fingers pointing up seems to mean that Placidusax is trying to contact metyr. Even if that wasent the case, Placidusax must have learned how to do this from someting. And we see no Two Fingers in Farum Azula. And while this one might be a reach. We hear Placidusax god Fled. And what does Metyr do when we beat her? She flees to her microcosm.
I know that based on her rememberence we defeated and killed her. But how come instead of turning to ash. She more teleports away. I also find it hilarious that EVERYONE we fight is a much weaker version of their former selves. Maybe even the Elden beast. The only person that is not weakened in some way is PCR
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
It would seem the greater will is actually the greater wont.
HOLY SHIT THAT'S SO TRUE LMAOOOOOO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Based pun
Do we even know if the Greater Will is even alive?
"Ah, I have beaten Metyr. Ymir will be pleased. "
Ymir: "So you have chosen death."
He wants to be the closest from being the new mother of the fingers. And to do that, he needs to take her remembrance from us.
I guess he doesn't know how to replicate a remembrance unlike Gideon.
Lol! Exactly.
@@froilanflorentino1252Oh, is that why he attacked? Honestly, he could have just asked.
@@GreebleClown He went crazy long ago according to the lore as he discovered more of the truth. He turned the sister of a loyal knight into a puppet to attack us. We've been helping their cause since the start of the questline so my guess is that Anna refused to attack us without reason. We can tell Jolan that a Anna attacked us but she won't believe anyone other than Ymir. Ymir then told some bs with an oscar award winning acting to Jolan for her to attack us.
Combining Jolan's spirit ashes with Anna's puppet is an act of mercy. Too bad they didn't really know that we could be the prophecied lord of the night in age of stars ending. They just had the misfortune of serving a madman.
@@GreebleClown "Dude I can go to the coffin in the backyard and make you a copy"
If I had a nickel for every time the daughter of lovecraftian gods were abandoned to a lesser plane, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but's it's weird that it happened twice, right?
**The cosmos intensify**
"A-GENT, DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
**Screams of those who live in death**
It’s effectively the cosmic manifestation of daddy issues
Sooo the finger mother and ebrietas? What about kos herself? And what about actual lovecraft mythos creatures like cthylla, yidhra and shub niggurath among others... Surprisingly common occurrence it seems.
@@FatBadgerStudiosshub - watchu say white boy? I'll show you some niggurath
Metyr: "Just hang on, the microcosm is still trying to connect..."
Three Fingers: "RESET THE ROUTER. SEND IT ALL BACK TO ONE WIFI CONNECTION."
Elden Beast: "No don't! I'm still playing The Golden Order and can't lose my progress!"
Aw poor Metyr, she just got stuck in that eldest sibling role after their parents abandoned them… trying to raise the others the best she can while scared and confused herself.
Which fate is harder? Messmer or Metyr... Both lost in transmission, but metyr at least can continue to create new life while messmer can only destroy... Also it seems a bit cliche only the male antagonists do cry for a mother and never a female... So I guess, 2 fingers are male (hello? I technical support?) while 3F are female (hello little tarnished *hug*... I sacrifice myself giving you my power to endure - just forget about blondy braid bit... )
@@normanbates7373 No mother is male.
And if Metyr is Placidusaxes god then she also left her husband clueless where she went. And we to this day see Placidusaxes trying to call to her in his intro. Twisting his necks into a spiral simular to Metyrs tail.
@@JeremyDeere didn't say that. I was pointing to messmer and ymir
@@draw2death421 if you look at the talisman - placidusax has all his heads stretched up in the air, too. And the time stop anytime after his victory to Bayle... His domain is a very high position compared to metyr in a lair underground (BTW FYI metyrs lair lies exactly deep beneath shaman village, not beneath the ruins myr as it seams)...
both metyr and placidusax and the 2 fingers are all in the same waiting position as antenna
For me i think it's less abandoned and more of 'you're grown, figure it out for yourself'
Close, the Greater Will is a cosmic parasite. A powerful one. He creates worlds in order to feed off of his creation. His kids are nothing but farmers. When he has finished setting up his farm, he yeets out into the cosmos to make another. That’s why I believe we see so many “trees” in the Elden Beasts arena. Each one represents a world he has created to tap for resources. His “children” are nothing more than hyper powerful ants. Following orders to a T and then falling to complete chaos when those orders are lost.
is not a parasite, is the universe itself and the universe is an extremely apathetic thing, nobody can win against the universe and is better that way
@@beniron5807 The trees during the Elden Beast's fight aren't from the Greater Will; they are from the Golden Order, because both the Elden Ring and the Elden Beast still represent the Golden Order's tennets during that moment. They are embodiments of the "Marika the Eternal" figure and her Order. To kill the Elden Beast is the same as killing the Goldern Order and the Goddess Marika (nor Marika the human/numen/shaman), allowing the world and thus the Ring and the Beast to be reborn once more, into a new and (hopefully) "better" form.
It's funny how the Nox tried to kill the Two Fingers to bring about an age of stars, not realizing that the Two Fingers are the children of a star.
the greater will isnt a star. where did you get that? you think something like astel or the elden beast are on par with an outer god? lmao
What if they are the ones Who wounded her :o . Those Astel loving bastard.
@@warmak4576they are the ones that wounded her and Astel destroyed the noxs cites they dont love them lol
ACtually it seems implied that they are the ones that wounded metyr herself. its both why she is so hidden away, has that wound on her belly, and that we are able to kill her without the figner slaying blade.
My guess the blade allows the killing of an immortal thing as the fingers, so close to garce, are immortal like we are in game.
Its possible the wound is what brought the finger creepers into existence, crawling from her gash and into the world, but they are something they can control.
@taddad2641 We actually don't even kill Metyr at the end, it looks like she just teleports away using her black hole magic
My own speculation about the Greater Will is that it always intended to develop things to a certain point, and then leave. A system that requires constant outside intervention to maintain stability isn't truly ordered. The Greater Will wants a world that is self-sustaining and self-ordering. So having guided the world to the point of developing civilization, it sent the Elden Ring as a tool for its creations to order themselves how they chose, went radio silent, and sat back to watch what would happen.
I think this applied to Metyr too; she was expected to leave behind her previous role as the GW's mouthpiece and create her own purpose and order in life. But she couldn't handle that, and convinced herself that if she just begged long and hard enough, the GW would relent and give her guidance again. This delusion is what rendered her and her children "broken."
The Greater Will is the mother bird tossing her chicks out of the nest and waiting to see if they'll fly or break their necks.
Maybe it was an experiment on free will. The Greater Will set the board and then sat back to observe the experiment.
I still wonder if Metyr is Placidusaxes Fled god. The twisting tail of metyr and the twisting heads of placidusax in his intro really makes me feel like Miyazaki wanted us to connect these two.
So makes me wonder if Placidusaxes Twisting head position was suposed to be him trying to connect to metyr.
Twisting forms/spirals/braids in ER lore are mostly rappresentative of nerves and spinal cord ... MArika's shape on the cross and Metyr themselves resemble the shape of the spine, upper and lower parts
The greater will pretty much just stepped in once but never again. From the lore of Elden ring it was there but it couldn’t be seen or felt. The fingers pretty much lost their purpose which was ironically explained by Gideon.
Its possible that when metyr was cut off from the greater will. This caused the split between the 2 and 3 fingers. The 3 fingers, likely were driven mad by metyr's cutoff and sought to burn everything
If u speculate about the split in form of a full hand 5-3=2. That's already heavily disagreed in analysis of the models exposed... 3 finger anatomy doesn't fit and even if so it would be the opposite hand...
I guess it is more the concept of duality (ordered) versus the chaos of 3 (prime number / 3body problem etc)
@@normanbates7373The most obvious answer is usually the correct one.
2 is also a prime number
@@TheCassenator damn, u R right... I was trapped by the binary xD
@@JeremyDeere I was on the same boat before, but u can search for the video someone exposed the 3d models of all fingers in the base game incl. Rannis... Nothing fits together as one hand
So basically my theory long before that the Frenzied Flame ending was the "best" ending kinda made sense. When the Greater Will left, the fingers tried to continue blindly thus each having their own "agenda" causing everything that resulted to the Shattering. The 3 fingers sought to end it all, restart from the start rather than trying to fix a thing that was already broken.
My idea is that maybe the greater will abandoned the lands between because it wanted them to decide their own fate for themselves, rather than constantly telling them how to live their lives. It sort of mirrors marika’s statement to her children but I could definitely be wrong
The whole idea of heresy and the greater will only wanting the lands between to be a specific way may have just been a lie created by marika and/or the fingers to maintain power
That’s actually implied because the he greater will is the creator of everything and nothing all at once it’s a deity that does not want to take away free will
I think the Greater Will is more like the Abrahamic Deity. The Fingers never received signals from it just like Kings in the medieval ages were never chosen by God
Ymir - go to the 3rd ruins! may the stars guide you!
Also Ymir - you shall die ! how dare you !
thei mplciation seems to be that they need our remembrance of her in order to ascend into her replacement.
I think it possible Metyr was wounded by the Nox with Fingerslayer Blade and that what caused her to lost connection with the Greater Will.
Since we now know the Two Finger never had direct connection to the Greater Will to begin with, then it more than likely that the "high treason"
the Nox had committed was made an attempt on Metyr's life rather than kill some Two Fingers. Interestingly enough, on Metyr's right chest there is also a wound that look like a cut wound as well.
There are no signs either metyr ever left it's place or any outer influence in this place... To me these marks look less like wounds and more like additional organic breed mechanics. And if there had been intruders before to harm metyr I guess Ymir had done more preparations than only a secret button on his left throne... There is also the puppet Anna down there - a carian thing. Both carian and nox seem to had a similar point of view of the worthiness of artificial life creation..while golden order (2fingers) definitely not tolerant to this. I guess the finger blade is an instrument created especially against 2fingers and not fingers in general
@@normanbates7373 If you look at her Remembrance , the wound is nowhere to be seen while her other features still intact. So we can assumed this was not on her originally. And while artificial life are shun by the Golden Order, it is not exactly "high treason" since the Fingerslayer Blade specifically states
"This blood-drenched fetish is proof of the high treason committed by the Eternal City"
meaning it has been used before, but I doubt the Greater Will would really consider it high treason if they were just killed some Two Fingers since they existence are even less significant than we originally thought. Also
"Cannot be wielded by those without a fate, but is said to be able to harm the Greater Will and its vassals."
it was made against the Greater Will in general, not just the Two Fingers.
@@donimmortal7692 good points, but only the 2 fingers are the popes of the greater will. And only the 2 fingers do give the empirian their "fate" of becoming a god. While the 3 fingers only embrace the one who has chosen his fate himself.
It kinda feel like the Greater Will always wanted humanity to decide the fate of the world. All it's action are kinda consistent with that. The guidance of grace leads the tarnish to tear down all the remains of the previous order. Goldmask seemingly comunes with the greater will, and the answer is an elden ring that gods cannot change on a whim. I don't think goldmasks ending is stripping the world of free will, as that is to similar to Miquella's plan, and the guidance of grace leads the tarnished to stopping him. Yet again, the greater will opposing another god. Is it possible the fire giant war wasn't even about the fire that can destroy the Erdtree, but a fellow deity the Greater will didn't want controlling mortals? But admittedly I'm not exactly well versed in the deepest lore of this game.
That's kind of the same idea I had, and additionally I think maybe Marika's imprisonment might not have *just* been for shattering the elden ring but it may have also been done as punishment for her actions during her reign
But iirc, it was Marika, not the greater will, that guided us there. Ppl from the lands between think it was the GW who gave grace back to the tarnished and brought the tarnished from across the fog, but we know it was Marika after Melina tells us her dialogue with Godfrey and his warriors.
Im am 99% sure the GW never guided us in any capacity and the guidance of grace was given by Marika alone
I've noticed the two bells you have to blow in order to progress Ymir's questline are direcly above two divine towers: Malenia's and Radhan's ... and no other divine tower is aligned that way. I really hope someone will connect some dots with this info!
I wonder how much of this Goldmask had actually figured out
I've noticed the two bells you have to blow in order to progress Ymir's questline are direcly above two divine towers: Malenia's and Radhan's ... and no other divine tower is aligned that way.
Considering that space-time in ER is not linear, what if the tarnished itself triggered the Caleid clash, sending some signal to their fingers? What if you are the cause of the lost guidance... by killing Metyr?
I always liked the thought that we as the player are the greater will... and we use tarnished like puppets. One after the other, collecting multiple playthroughs and at the end, fighting the Elden Beast... it's not just other player's worlds in the trees in the background, but a few of those are our other saves. lol 😕Cheers! 🍻
Lol this is actually an interesting idea and possibly not wrong
Ahh yes, the tarnished achieves CHIM and is nothing more than the dream giving purpose to the dreamer that Shor/Lorkhan may finally ascend to the realm of the Amoranth/Greater will and finally dream their own dream.
When the dream no longer needs the dreamer; when the dream no longer needs the dreamer indeed.
Never thought I'd be so excited to see a video about fingers
In the land of shadow we see a lot of the crucible culture but we don"t see elden ring at all
Yes, the Elden Ring and Elden Beast were summoned by Marika at the gate to create her golden order. It seems before that Farum Azula likely had some understanding of the ring, but that may have lived with them alone.
@@square-table-gaming ..... i got a weird theory t othrow at ya here.
Metyr herself lost contact with the Greater will because of her injury. The Finger slayer blade was not meant to slay two fingers, but to slay Metyr herself. However the blade failed to strike a mortal blow to her.
HOWEVER, twhat it did do is cause the finger crawler to craw out of her wound, and in addition, cut her off from the g reater will. In its absence, she went mad, and manipualted Marika, and other after, to do her bidding and chaos came from thereon.
THIS is why we are aeven able to kill her in game. My guess is that the blade cut her off rom grace. Grace is life itself, and being bound to it makes one immortal, like we are. While she lost her connection, the two fingers she births sitll have it.
Its why she is hidden so deeply, so well, and so far away from her seat of power. its also possibly why she has such minimal holy based attacks despite being a Finger but also why her tail staff can wield both sorcery and incantations, remnants of what she once was, a link between the Glint and Grace.
The fact. That as We the Tarnished now know that The Greater Will has abandoned the Lands Between. Is just pure horror.
Imo I think Marika and her own 2 fingers took over and changed everything, I think that's why Marika kids are all cursed with something and maybe with so many outer gods in the land between maybe that's why there's no more real communication with the outer will
Waltuh, we have to listen for the Greater Will Waltuh
Seems like the 3 fingers wanted to break the greater wills play thing. Almost like to call it out and force it to come back
3:37 i don’t think the greater will is placidusax’s “god” that fled the world, i always thought of that god as at the same level as Marika, as Placidusax was an elden lord.
Making that leap just because both Placudisax and Metyr were abandoned by something seems unwarranted to me.
Also the elden beast arriving after Placudisax’s god fled (3:46) doesn’t seem right to me, as that would mean all the elden ring (= the elden beast) references in Faram Azula would have been placed there after the fact, when we don’t really have much evidence for that. I’d think it more likely that Placudisax’s god would have fled much closer to Marika coming to power, as we have little precedent for the Lands Between being ruled only by a lord, seems some god is always involved.
There are fingers in midras mansion. I believe midra and nanaya (who was processed by shabriri) infected the 3 fingers with the flame, which caused the greaterwill to abandoned metyr for her ability to be manipulated easily
I think the Three Fingers were originally Two Fingers that were killed by the Fingerslayer Blade and that their corpse was then taken over by an agent of the Frenzied Flame warping them into their current shape. Just like Shabriri and Hyetta hijack the corpses of dead people as it seems the Frenzied Flame, as a force of destruction, cannot actually create anything.
So like. Greater Will cuts a deal with a down bad Marika and establishes the wholenew world order just to get bored and dip, outsourcing its part of the deal to the Fingers and Elden Beast WHO ARE NOT QUALIFIED FOR THIS POSITION. By the time Godwyn got whacked i would be pretty done with the Elden Ring and the Golden Order too. I dont see what Marika did as a betrayal. She finally caved and did the right thing. That gave everyone a chance to carve a new fate whatever it be. Just to spite the Greater Will that elevated her, empowered her do all kids of horrible stuff, and then spurned her. Led on the whole time by a father who was never commited. She woke up one day and said. This is not my beautiful house, this is not my beautiful spouse. Im holding onto lies. Any obligation this world has to the Greater Will is a lie. So smash it. I would rather be stuffed in a jar than face her fate. She did a lot of wrong as God of the Golden Order. And she was a terrible mum. But in the end she did set everyone free and the old girl deserves to rest.
free of what? the greater will is the universe itself and it literally abandon that world before even marika was born.
the only thing she did is create more stupidity in a world the greater will already forgot
best theory I could come up with is greater will is symbolism for game development, where it seemingly left the copy in our hands & let us decide what to do with world it created in boundary of world order/game mechanics, that's why 2 & 3 fingers are literally a hand, that we are playing game with...
This post CHIMs
The order when you visit the finger craters also reveals that the elden beast was the second one, because the second one you visit is near marikas village
Mmmm waking up to see a new video or playing Elden ring while listening to this just hits different
It's important to see that the description says "broken and abandoned", maybe after being wounded by the Nox (broken) her connection was severed?
That would lead to the arrival of the elden beast and astel, which may not be "sons" but vassals; maybe the GW didnt want to sacrifice another part of his offsprings?
The elden beast being order incarnate also implies that the words of hyetta are true: the GW wanted to create a complete distinction between life and death, in opposition to the cycle of the crucible venerated by the hornsent
Of all the lore explorations out there, this one feels the most "useful".
From a top-down perspective, you have:
1. The Greater Will's intentions in The Lands Between
2. The Greater Will's actions in The Lands Between
3. The eventual absence of The Greater Will's actions in The Lands Between
4. The intentions of the highest agents of The Greater Will
4. The actions of the highest agents of The Greater Will
5. Everyone else's response to these actions
.. Makes the entire story easier to comprehend
Thank you!
An interesting character that I was surprised to see, despite all the fingers in the DLC. I enjoy these videos.
Also if I may ask, Why is there no dedicated Video to Godrick the Grafted? He is one of my favorite characters and what he represents in terms of the Golden Order is amazing. Either way fantastic work!
Mostly because when we got started everyone had already thoroughly covered Patrick the grafted. We mentioned him in a few different videos and if you put that all together it basically covers his entire lore. That's sad you're right it wouldn't hurt for us to eventually make something on him
@@square-table-gaming I was just curious. Regardless I found the lore you cover in various videos to be really interesting and thank you for bringing it to all of our attention in detail.
I imagine if our two finger's gets through to the greater will and it finds out all the stuff we pulled from killing metyr/elden beast/ burning the erdtree there is going to be a very unhappy vassal coming our way in a few thousand years.
From these we can assume astel and others were sent by greatear will as a punishment to nokron.
I'd assumed the Greater Will had fallen to the Lands Between as the Elden Beast then needed a host and so Radagon/Marika's rise.
The lore outlines them as 2 separate beings
Honestly The Metyr “reveal” Was duplicious. Very disappointing we didn’t get better lore with the fingers, stars, cosmos and abyss.
We already knew the Fingers were full of shit in the base game because of Gideon’s descriptions.
New infomation would have been better. Something about how Marika and the fingers actually gained a following, in the first place, which would have been more vital.
How did Marika leave her village and assume the role of a God, without a following? Did she just start shacking up? What about Radagon’s Origins?
It’s also a shame Fromsoftware has left so much lore, just to Promotional Commercials and Interviews with Miyazaki. A mistep by fromsoftware.
If the images of Torrent etc etc., should be taken seriously, they should be included as lore bits on the game.
If the greater will was to be a guiding hand, then its envoys would be its fingers.
I really hope that you will make a lore video for Romina, Saint of the Bud 🙏
I loved this one, very nice interpretation about the fingers being motherless themselves as well as Metyr being abandoned by the Greater Will
The “Greater Will” is and always was Miyazaki and its “abandonment” represents him abandoning the lore of the game for those who play it to do with what they will. I was joking earlier calling the deliberate vagueness a “mark of great writing” because while I think it has a place, it is so prevalent in this story as to essentially be the central theme of it. There are many paths you can take, none of them have any real answers or produce any real certainty because this is a story told through visual medium and is therefore heavy handed with it’s symbolism. However it is symbolism for its own sake, having no root of meaning that you can take and run with from a lore perspective. Every question the game posits ends up being open ended and if the intention was to be an analogue of modern life then I think it is brilliant. There is no point to the ambitions of the masses, we can only choose to positively or negatively interact with the world around us and the people we meet. We can choose to exploit or aid those who seem to have no real purpose themselves. Even those who are unflinchingly loyal end up meeting a terrible fate. Nothing positive is rewarded, whether it be bravery, loyalty, honor or ambition, treason and pragmatism. Hell even a character who turned his back on the ambitions of the Tarnished and Volcano Manner to live a quiet life mending living jars died unable to protect them. A guy whose crime was petty robbery had his soul cursed by a madman. I think the moral of the story is that we shouldn’t get tied up in the details but just enjoy the ride because nobody gets a happy ending.
FromSoft has a fantastic obsession with man serving justice to the gods. They manage to make it more interesting every time!
Ayyyyy! I appreciate the shoutout. Love how this turned out, but I would say the anger that metyr harbored from the kowtowing part is an important part. She was big mad about the greaterwill leaving her on read. Either way this came out magnificently 😊
Thank you! I agree that's an important call out
Placidusax’s heads are also twisted together, spiraling if you will
the fingers are manifested as fingers, because they can Point you into a direction.
I think this really clarifies the distinction between endings. I may be late to the party, but weather the best ending for you be the Frenzy Flame or the Age of Stars, it’s all subjective. In true souls fashion, it seems the most meaningful ways to change the world are to either destroy the cycle and all it inhabits, or keep it going in hopes you can do it better. (Also the only two endings to have cutscenes so there’s clear favorites from a story standpoint 😭)
So the Greater Will is just Master Hand, and Elden Ring and Smash Bros. share a universe.
I dont think the greater will simply abandoned Metyr. I think she was attacked by the nox the with the finger slayer blade, resulting in the gash in her stomach, that gash resulted in her becoming broken, and like a broken antenna she can not longer receive signals and is not a means by which the greater will can communicate. Then after the greater will sent down astel to punish them and then sent down the elden beast as a replacement.
The problem here is that Metyr communicates through the Microcosm which sits above her tail-fingers. I do agree that the gash in her chest is likely from the Finger-Slayer blade, however the idea that this cut off her connection to the Greater Will is based entirely in speculation and has no written lore to back it up. Also, the Elden Beast serves a different purpose from Metyr, it's the Elden Ring itself, not a means of communication.
@square-table-gaming we dont know exactly how she communicates through the microcosm.
The word microcosm etymologically means little world. "human nature, man viewed as the epitome of creation," literally "miniature world" (applied metaphorically to the human frame by philosophers, hence a favorite word with medieval writers to signify "a man"), from Medieval Latin microcosmus, from Greek mikros "small" (see micro-) + kosmos "world"
The world microcosm implies it is a smaller scale universe, but based on the music of the second phase the sound is based on the recorded sounds of a black hole, which might imply its functions like a Einstein-rosen bridge.
Based on the wording of the english version of the staff of the great beyond (the japanese might state or imply something else) Implies that the microcosm was a one way communication device, or at the very least something akin to a radio, as the fingers and placidusax assume a sort of prayer or a stance like antenna.
"The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come."
"The crystal ball, though representative of a microcosm, would not receive any sign."
So far there is nothing that implies she had the ability to send signals only receive them. if Metyr was indeed damaged by the nox that most likely would interfere with her ability to receive or the very least interpret those messages.
Also little known fact that i found out after going through school. Visible light, radio waves, x-rays, and cosmic rays all use photons aka packets of energy that move through space. The only difference is the energy levels or wavelength of that energy. The ability for the fingers to use light to communicate is not too different than how we broadcast radio waves into space.
Yes i made a mistake that the elden beast is a replacement, but i do think it serves as a guiding or linking force in the lands between to the greater will. If the Elden Beast is the Elden Ring and the Runes are fragments of the Elden Ring that means it has some influence on people. This may be indicated by the golden hue in people's eyes.
I feel like the Elden beast was a part of metyr. But was stolen from her by marika. In the trailer we see marika take a strain of golden hair from somewhere. It look like it came out of the belly of something. Possible stolen from metyr. That’s why she lost connection to the greater will. Plus the Elden beast looks like the nervous system of a beast potential metyrs.
I enjoy the new content so much. And as a longtime viewer I’m really happy for this channels growth you guys deserve this.
Thanks so much!
the way you ended this video.. chefs kiss
I always thought that the Greater Will was a sort of Zeus figure. Its domain and effects on the Lands Between far outstretches those of the other Other Gods at the time we play. Before Zeus, there were the Titans, and before them was the primordial void. To me, it feels like the Greater Will is just stepping into someone else's shoes, replacing the Crucible and ushering in its own age without any real thought on what to do. It dabbles in the affairs of mortals and oftentimes doesn't care much for its children. It is also unclear whether the Greater Will is ignoring its children and subjects or if the connection has been entirely cut off. It is sad to see Metyr, who has either been cast out or sent as an envoy, abandoned and left twiddling its fingers.
the greater will is the entire universe, the crucible was born from the greater will, everyone and their moms was only using the name of the greater will to cater power, but the greater will even forgot that world in the first place
another amazing video 🥰Metyr has always interested me because she's the mother of fingers and the speak for the greater will, so thank you for this video 😍💜💜
14:41 or even to curse the world with eternal accursed blessings.
There's nothing more existentially dreadful than the realization that your god has abandoned you.
Even though I never subscribed to the Two Fingers, and tended to believe that they weren't all knowing, the revelation that the Greater Will Was talking to them, but had just fled the land and left us to our own crooked devices was.... oddly scary.
How do we know Placidusax correctly identified who his God was? Couldn’t it be that he thought Metyr was was the source of his power and that it fleeing was related to its womb being cut open?
Im also wondering that. Metyrs tails twist simular to Placidusaxes necks in his intro. So i wonder... was Placidusax trying to call to Metyr who refused to answear? Metyr also flees into her microcosm after the fight so perhaps thats how Placidusax lost her without being able to follow her.
It's pretty funny that we kill Metry and take her remembrance to Enia, yet unlike us, gameplay prevents her from actually learning that her entire existence and everything she believes in is essentially a lie.
ah kos or some say micro kosim grant us fingers
I think it's more plausible that Metyr was hurt by the Nox, who created the fingerslayer blade. This in turn broke Metyr's connection to the GW, ans invoked the GW's ire towards the Nox. It would explain why Placidusax's fod flwd too, if that god was Metyr
I'm onboard with the idea that Metyr was attacked by the Nox, I don't believe that would have severed her connection as that connection is implied to come from her tail fingers. If those were gauged or cut up I'd agree.
Algorithm boost you say? I got you.
Well, I absolutely adore your videos. I love watching them and learning more about my favorite game.
Your videos help me unwind and relax before bed. I appreciate you and your hard work.
Lol pretty neat coincidence that the position you find Placidusax in and Metyrs “tail” kinda look like the Marker from Deadspace.
The Elden Ring acts as a conduit between the Fingers and the Greater Will. When Marika shattered the Elden Ring she broke that line of communication.
That is not actually said anywhere in-game. What we do know is that the Elden Beast itself is the Elden Ring, and that Marika is the physical vessel for the ring. With that said, the fingers don't communicate with the Elden Ring itself. They are "said" to communicate with the greater will, not the Elden Beast, which is a vassal of the greater will.
My theory is that the so-called "Greater Will" doesn't even know that any of this is happening. Not because it's dumb or incapable of knowing, but simply because it regards everything going on in The Lands Between, from Metyr and all the Fingers, the Elden Beast and Elden Ring, the Shattering, Marika, and the Demigods, etc., as insignificant. Not in the sense that it was once paying attention, lost interest, and then just stopped, but more like how we probably step on thousands of bugs just walking through the grass to get to our car, and don't even think twice about it.
or simply things are so vast it can't concentrate on such minimal details, as there are greater things to work with, other worlds... and rivals.
the greater will is the entire universe itself, to it everyone is literally insignificant to the point of completly being forgotten
I was sure the Matyr stoped comuning with the greater will after it was wounded. Imir whanted her place, to be the only mother. That why he wounded her. Of couse she was wrong. And he was right.
Peculiar observation: The glintstone nails finger spell icon (and the complete spell if segments of it are assembled) resembles the hand of the Elden Beast. If sorcery via glintstone as a conduit can channel power from all sorts of sources (magma sorceries for example invoke the power of the Mt.gelmir volcano), what are the finger sorceries getting theirs from?
More STG lore just in time for dinner let's goo!
I always wondered why the greater will needed both the finger's AND queen marika as vassals to communicate its will.
The simple anwser is, it never did. Metyr was broken, unable to commune with the greater will that birthed it. So the greater will sent a beast hurtling to the lands between , one that would find a vessel in an empyrean to carry its will.
Metyr however could not accept this. So in her resentment, in her anger, she still sent forth her 2 fingers, her children who were originally destined to spread the message of the greater will, to still influence the world despite being unable to hear the greater will's messages.
So we have two competing factions, one who lost connection but still wants control, and another who has connection and has control. So, those without connection cemented themselves as part of the order of those who did that they might reclaim a part of their original purpose.
I always thought it was strange that the opening cinematic outright said that the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between, but then Enia said that they HADN'T been abandoned. Now it all makes sense - it was all BS on behalf of the fingers.
Here's a question though - with everything spoken about in this video, could it stand to reason that the Frenzied Flame might also connected to the Greater Will in some way? The Three Fingers are servants of the Frenzied Flame, and if they are all connected to Metyr, could the Frenzied Flame be a distant relation to them, just having a different ideology. OR, maybe the Three Fingers was like the "runt" of the litter and basically abandoned, so the Frenzied Flame (a separate entity) maybe reached out to it and used it as it's pawn?
I'm not very good at explaining myself usually, so hope that makes sense. It's just something that cropped in my mind watching the video. Great work as always!
There are statues lying around in the land between...they contain some kind of energy. what about them 🤔
I believe that metyr lost connection with the greater will because of the nox
Remember the FINGERSLAYER blade "capable of harming the greater will and its vassals" coated with blood
And if we are still arguing marika was atleast aligned with the nox in times past, if not outright one of them, a mimic tear in and of herself as a shaman
Marika could have instrumented this great treason, being the betrayal listed in the trailer, it also looks like her ripping the elden ring from metyrs sliced open womb in the trailer, and then she puts it in her own, for we can see it nestled in the womb of her shattered body in the end, adopting metyrs two fingers which were accepted already as being connected to the greater will, and using them as a holy symbol to strengthen her reign
I dont believe marikas rule ever was granted by the greater will, that it was all a massive hoax over tens of thousands to hold over power, and the Elden beast just the manifestation of the Elden ring "a symbol of order in the lands between'
Jesus typing this out helped me align alot of stuff in the lore, and to be honest, i think i got it right!!
why no one talk about the wound in Metyr's chest? Maybe it was the fingerslayer blade that did this
Only thing i kind of miss from old Soul games free range to kill npc. I would probably slaying many the finger readers. At they could give us reason like, folk tale that there is bogeyman, that comes after you if harm the crones.
My poor finger mommy 😔😢
Pladasudisax is not an Ancient dragon. Special affx of bonus dmg to dragons does not apply to him. He is the only one of his kind.
You know another dragon that is one of a kind?
BAYLE!!!!!.
He has omen horns. Bi-lateral heart. Huge as as hell. And uses the one of two fused elemental powers.
The other being Ice Lightning. The weapon of the "failed" dragonkin soldier.
To be blunt. I'd wager the Greater Will created Pladasudisax to be a Lord
The fire Giants and Nox wanted a Lord of their own, creating Bayle.
Pladasudisax lost to a Mimic. He didnt win!.
That is why the Greater will left. The people of this Land madr a creater that rivals the Greater Wills
What scares me the most... is we find things like "The One Finger" in her arena, whater that means.. We also know she is the mother of fingers... she birthed the three fingers..
Also, we need to absolutely STOP trusting Ymir. Ymir is completely untrustworthy and only in it for himself.
Elden Ring is like the Futurama episode Godfellas playing over and over again. “I was god once.” “Yes. You were doing great until everyone died.”
Makes me wonder in the greater will is a thumb or a toe lol
Another great video. Well done , kings and queens
Placidusax had 5 heads.
Like five fingers on human palm.
Could seperating the land of shadows from the rest of the world also have cut Metyr off from the will and her from the fingers leaving the fingers to end up following other gods or even Marika. Then the elden beast being sent after Marika specifically because of this
I think the whole system seems to be thematically to be "unclear". Even if the greater will was still talking to Metyr, we got chinese whispers going on. Think about it: The greater will says something over a great distance, then Metyr will interpret the message, then give it to her two fingers, and then those two fingers are interpreted by the finger readers. The whole idea of finger reading as a way to predict fate, clearly already hints how unprecise all that is. Not just the root, but the whole broken antenna network.
So would the other stars, the malformed, become finger birthing things like metyr? Only deformed due to radahn halting movement of the stars?
You know when it comes to Metyr I feel we are assuming what we are taking what were told in game is 100% fact rather than taking it as being presented a theory by an NPC. A theory based on what information they found and then filled in the gaps with what evidence they could uncover. And it is one that I feel still leaves room for errors in judgement, especially since Count Ymir doesn't seem all right in the head himself.
It is true that Metyr is cut off from the Greater Will. There is more than enough evidence of that. But I still don't feel there is enough evidence to suggest that the world is completely abandoned. Rather I think something happened that cut Metyr off from the Greater Will. How exactly it happened is unclear. It could once again fall back to Merica and her splitting the Land of Shadow from the rest of the world. It could have been due to the meddling of the other outer gods who seem to have taken at least an idle interest in the world of the Lands Between. Or... perhaps an undisclosed event that has only been hinted at via a rather weird but otherwise unremarkable weapon: The Ringed Finger.
Now I am unsure how differently the original Japanese description is from the english translation but they key details in its description that it is "believed to have been cut from an ancestor of the finger creepers" and also a "legacy of an ancient act of blasphemy". I feel this is info we have been overlooking for a while and might just be the puzzle piece we need not necessarily to complete the picture but to better see the missing parts of it.
And who knows. Maybe there is something else we missed. Something in the finger ruins we overlooked or another base game item that was also passed over that may also connect to the puzzle in some way. The lore of Fromsoft games is like digging up actual history where we don't know exactly what happened in the past but with what knowledge is passed down and what evidence is dug up we can find enough to paint a clearer but not perfect picture of the past. Tis what makes lore diving in these games fun.
FromSoft has an unhealthy relationship with fingers.
I truly think The greater will simply seeds life and leaves an elden ring. It moves on to new places and never spends time on one place in particular. It's considered almighty in the lore but considering the identity issues in the game I think it's just a benevolent outer god, as the Greater will would actually be the One Great that technically doesn't exist anymore. The greater will is just another piece of it as is the God of Rot. The lore is unreliable and biased because that's Elden Beasts goal and everything was absolutely fine until Marika seen it for what it was. A manipulator. The lands between was just fine without the greater will. The way it turns their body into a sword makes me feel like Marika was a puppet and Radagon was a puppet even more so! I wouldn't be surprised if Radagon was literally the beasts hand in manipulating the world and once you kick Radagon a butt it had to come out and deal with you personally.
Finished the ranni questline for a second time today and remembered rather than realized that ranni’s final location is called "cathedral of manus celes" and the architecture , no, the structure of the building itself is exactly like the cathedral of manus metyr (but ruined). Also, a two fingers was destined to land on it (radahn stoping the fate of his family, yknow). What exactly is the link between these 2 locations ? I mean it’s obvious but why is there a cathedral of this type in the lands between ?
I thought Placidusax was waiting for his dragon god?
That's not actually said in-game, it's just a theory
potyr, father of toes
This fight was super easy cause i use a bleed build so yea at least the lore was juicy
I'm not so sure there is a Will (i.e. a thinking existence) behind the Greater Will. Has anyone actually communicated with it? Doesn't Metyr's item just say she saw signs in the Microcosm, not that she actually communed with the Greater Will?
Suggestion for future vids: PLEASE note when there are going to be spoilers about things. A friend who hasn’t finished the DLC, but had completed Ymir’s questline, was watching with me; and now he was spoiled to the fact that Miquella does reach godhood and that Bayle fought with Placidusax. Those two pieces of info were not expected in a lore video about Metyr, because they really aren’t related, so we thought it would be safe.
12:38 I might be missing something, but doesn't Metyr's remembrance explicitly points out that she is the mother to the two fingers, not the three. My takeaway overall is that the Greater Will and its agents are a force for order, whatever shape that may take. The antheses to the Greater Will is the Flame of Chaos, and cosenquently the Three Fingers as well.
The three fingers were probably created as a mockery of the two fingers
seek fingers... but why is it always fingers?
The comments are usually hot beds for theories I end up taking for my own.
Why are they fingers, though? Did they take on the form of the first human thing they came into contact with?
I love the video, but I think it’s a little off on Placidusax’s god. In my eyes, there was a god before Marika, and that was who fled. Marika is the god and Radagon is the lord (hence why her children are demigods, with Ranni/Radahn/Rykard becoming so when RadaKa merged), so someone else would be the god.
I feel like there are too many connections to Placidusax for metyr not to be his god.
Metyr was send down but we never know for who. Metyrs twisting tails are eerily simular to Placidusax twisting heads in his intro cinematic.
We also learn Metyr gives orders to two fingers. So Placidusax taking a pose simular to two fingers pointing up seems to mean that Placidusax is trying to contact metyr.
Even if that wasent the case, Placidusax must have learned how to do this from someting. And we see no Two Fingers in Farum Azula.
And while this one might be a reach. We hear Placidusax god Fled. And what does Metyr do when we beat her? She flees to her microcosm.
I know that based on her rememberence we defeated and killed her. But how come instead of turning to ash. She more teleports away. I also find it hilarious that EVERYONE we fight is a much weaker version of their former selves. Maybe even the Elden beast. The only person that is not weakened in some way is PCR
We didn't kill her, she escaped into her microcosm
@@square-table-gaming Then how do we extract the parts of her to make the finger weapons
@@karmaotsutsuki771 gameplay convenience
May chaos take the world
From what i hear...they didnt have enough money for gas to make the trip back to pick up baby girl...tough luck i guess