I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beast and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to humans selectively breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eyes are plucked dies while sometimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order so frenzied flame a more vilent harvester and goldenorder more symbiotic ... since kings rules for weqlth and power bu i doubt an alient powerful being would have motivatione of wealth and power but meybe they wanted somthing else from life it self .. the currency in lands between also related closely to life itself so maybe for those beings the poteial of life to work for them and to somehow sustain them might b these "outer gods " purpose i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beat and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to ow humans slectivelt breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eleys are plucked dies while someimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order o golden order has a less invasive relationship wit life in lands between than the frenzied flame "god" but they ultimaely are aliens harvesting somthing from the life like when people died the are burried at the foot of the erd tree which wws specifically changed from the bodies which were simply burnt by ghost flame before the order of the erd tree so greater will does want somthing here too its somehow related to the dead and their remains while the antient old ones harvest from the living , and w must think tat normally in human world kings take powers for the leasures and wealth they will get but welath and power inst necessarily somthing a god wqnts in eldenring ehich i think strictly speaking arnt gods but just harvestors so these out beings don necessarly want power or wealth from life of lands between but rather sustainace these outerbeinngs are symbiotically dependent on life and want diffrent things from it and hence they are in competition with each other over life i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
The stone sheathed sword and the alters of light and dark. While I'm not entirely sure when it connects but they point to a very early age when light and dark ruled the world more then any of the gods of known history.
The irony of the whole story is that Ranni started the Lands Between on a path towards death and destruction, all so that she could be free from what she saw as the machinations of the Greater Will... and yet it's entirely possible that even that far back, the GW was already gone; meaning that all the tragedy and loss of the story from the Night of the Black Knives onward, was based on a lie; because if it really was just the Fingers responsible for all of this, Ranni could've just killed those in order to set herself free.
Another solid vid, and amazing collab with Goldmask, I love his vids too :) This video, plus some others had me thinking: if metyr is the first rock to hit TLB, then maybe the Greater Will was at first INT based, and then eventually the Nox found a way to harm GW and thus GW abandoned Metryr and INT in exchange for pure faith and tried to have total control "embodiment of order". Maybe the shunning of the Nox was because they found out the GW wasn't all powerful and decided to kill it, but then GW stopped that with the Elden Beast and allowing Marika to take total control, chopping down any culture that didn't agree.
Miriel only survived being an exposition character by being a massive tortoise. His shell protected him from Myizaki's reaping blade that slays any character that dares give s direct answers about the plot.
Thank you so much brother, the pleasure was all mine. You elevated the script with your keen insights into matters I would completely miss. Thank you so much
@@SmoughTown If I may ask you in this theory here, what would the positions of the Outer Gods like the God of Rot, the Formless Mother, and Frenzied Flame now be?
Finally, the only thing that took me by storm when I came across it. Not Marika's past, not Radhahn's return, not even the Messmer backstory. Metyr was the single most ground breaking lore revelation in this dlc, giving me this sweet walk down memory lane, when I first saw the nightmares of Yharnam. There is always a bigger fish and I adore the fact they went that way and did not just say "Marika was evil for the sake of evil."
@@parameciazoan2040 Greater Will as it likely birthed the Frenzied Flame in the first place. But to call the Greater Will a 'fish' might be incorrect as its likely just the 'lake' itself.
*Metyr* : It sure is lonely here... It's a good thing I can always receive calls from Dad! *Nox with some creepy knife* : He'll have to leave a voice message.
Well The Greater Will abandoned Metyr even before that. The Eternal Cities look like they make up parts of Leyndell (kinda). As Leyndell looks cut in half.
If Elden Ring gets a sequel of some kind. I'd really like Metyr to be one of the main antagonists Since her boss fight doesn't end with the "Boss Defeated" message. She teleports away, implying she just ran in fear. Still around and able to manipulate people
A cool idea, I thought it would also be interesting to have her actually become a npc, like imagine finding her wherever she went off too, only to be extremely wounded and beg us for mercy and then give us just pure lore exposition.
Wish she was a being that went crazier as time went by after being abandoned (even more crazier than it is). DLC in the Land of Reeds would be cool too.
I like to imagine the Tarnished just sitting on their throne and chilling only to hear a sound coming from Metyr's head, and when they put it next to their ear like a phone they hear "hey Matyr, it's me, the greater will, sorry for not calling, i got kinda busy with work, anyway, tell the giants to start building these-" while the Tarnished is just panicking because they killed the GW daughter.
Finding Metyr will always be my favorite Elden Ring Moment. Because me and my friend were playing at the same time and we were talking about the dlc then me and her both did the quest together and it was such an amazing experience. The mystery behind the fingers the boss fights getting behind Messmer castle it was so much fun to experience that with them. It will forever be my most favorite Elden Ring experience. That's also why Metyr is my favorite boss in the game.
I think there's a strong implication he actually restores the connection with it. Compare the design of the Mending Rune of Perfect Order with the "microcosm" summoned by Metyr
I'm partial to the theory that like in some religious scholars schools of thought, all those that search the truth end up learning of god no matter if theyve been in contact with the religion or not. Through seeking understanding of Grace Goldmask reverse engineered the intent of the greater will and learned the truth of absolute order
Gold Mask knows. That is why he made contact with Greater Will and wanted to remove small gods (like Marika) from equation as they were too liable to be ruled by passions.
Gold mask knows nothing imo. It's pure ignorance. While Gold mask points out the flaws of Golden Order Fundamentalism, and weeps about "when" it went wrong. Metyr expands the point that the Golden Order's entire conception was always wrong. Goldmask initially seemed to be a positive ending. Now seems far worse. Either you can see it as the 1. Gw Died. 2. Gw abandoned TLB. Goldmask ending. And to that end, Ranni's ending both are futile because TLB have been abandoned for a while. Everything that resulted was the Golden Order in it's conception. TLDR : Elden Ring DLC made all endings = Bad endings.
This explain a mystery that I didn't understand before: Why is there no Site-of-Graces within the Finger Ruins? Your proposal that Metyr and the Elden Beast are actually opposing forces explain that a lot, if you consider Site-of-Grace as an extension of Marika/EldenBeast branch of will.
When I read through the descriptions and saw "microcosm" mentioned multiple times, the question came up of "microcosm of what", and the implications of that and what was shown in the fight and within the microcosm iconography had me utterly terrified IRL for about 30 minutes.
There’s paradoxical in a really captivating way about a lovecraftian alien that evolved in conditions completely and utterly removed from the human condition inexplicably taking the form of a malformed human hand. Cosmic horror isn’t just the mere presence of something unfathomable and unknowable, it’s the inability of humanity to ever cease seeking to tame the infinite despite knowing fully the futility of their endeavours. Metyr strongly encourages that kind of thinking the same way Kos and her Orphan does; why do they look so much like us?
The pillars in metyrs room always looked to me like speaking tubes you would find on boats. She has a large concentration of them because she needs to relay information either as a parent or as a voice of the greater will to the rest of the lands between
@monsieurdorgat6864 one reason I think water exists in the arena of both the Elden Beast and Metyr is because space is sometimes referred as the "cosmic ocean." Their arenas are thematically fitting as such.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt Almost as if their environments are from the perspective of the Tarnished, their mind trying to visualise their cosmic arenas as something they can understand: the ocean
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt That does seem like a common theme they continued from Bloodborne! They might be implying (without going too far into it) that the cosmology is similar - with layers of mixed consciousness/firmament. Though this is pretty out of the scope of the game. Fromsoftware is clearly going for "There's an insane, unimaginable cosmos out there and even attempting to grasp the greater mysteries of this cosmos will drive you insane!" It's much more about what these great forces mean for the Lands Between, not so much about the forces themselves. Kinda like Smough said: the Greater Will might have abandoned the Lands Between or is dead. It's Marika's power and Marika's grace that we see. God is the power on earth, not in the cosmos above.
Also worth noting that they extend down from the ceiling of her boss arena, which itself is made of presumably water or some type of fluid, while the Elden Beast’s arena has a floor made of fluid with spectral tree trunks growing upwards.
Very interesting theory about Finger's incantation being heresy. Mindblowing to be honest. I'll definitely look at the game with new angle in further playtrough. I also agree about the nature of the stars. They being children of Greater Will. This means Ranni's ending is not really against the Greater Will. Hovewer i don't think i'm sold on Greater Will being dead. Main reason is that i don't know what to do with old lore about Greater Will abandonment being result of shattering the Elden Ring. I don't think we should just write it off as a retcon and don't address it. And finally if Fingers are trying to overthrow Marika to replace her order why then standard "no brain cells" ending is with us being another Marika's consort? So yeah, i'm 50/50 with you on this one :)
I think whether the Greater Will is dead or whether it is ignoring the Two Fingers is meant to be sorta uncertain. After all, that is the nature of faith, and faith holds real power in these games. As for the Fingers looking to replace Marika - I don't think the Fingers particularly care whether Marika is replaced or not. What matters is that their agent is in charge. When you become consort to Marika, she remains a lifeless husk that only holds the Elden Ring. You're the one really in charge - and you sit the throne alone.
I dont even understand where 'ranni is against gw' came from in the first. I don't think she really gaf about GW or knows it exists in the first place. Carian have a history to trying to hide a study of primoval current, and such the origin of universe.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i don’t agree with lifeless husk theory. First of all it’s a throne of Elden Lord in a first place. So us sitting there is nothing unusual. Second - we repair the Erdtree, so why wouldn’t Marika be repaired? Also those ER endings are “continue the cycle” endings without radical changes. Especially standard one. Thematically Marika being “dead” but order continues doesn’t fit as it’s something new entirely while it’s supposed to be “merely a cycle”. Also while we repair Elden Ring we bow to Marika the same way we bow to Ranni. So it looks like a marriage proposal. This works better with living person. I don’t see any evidence she is a husk so i’m not sure where this idea came from.
The symbolism in this game is just so amazing. It also parallels how humans have grown to view the concept of creation over time. Crucible period represents our time viewing earth as the origin of all creation. The Geater Will represents the Sun and the Golden Order the long period of time we have see the Sun as a diety, and our solar system as the center of the universe.
Since the Lands Between still has the Sun it's why I'm tempted to think the Greater Will is still around. Especially since there's a direct line from the Sun through the damaged columns on the summit of the Isolated Divine Tower and the base of modern day Farum Azula indicating a path of a golden meteor from the Sun to Farum Azula. Potentially.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt You could see it as the Sun is there there, we just understand that in the greater cosmos the Sun is but a small part of a much larger system of inluence in the galaxy and beyond that. Much like the impact of the Moons related to their respective counterparts in the game. We know the side that faces us, but we find the dark side we never see to be so alluring.
I used to try to puzzle out how the fingers related to the elden beast and there was a clear disconnect i couldn't explain. Metyr explains that so well
Perhaps SmoughTown will finally explain why there's a turtle that's a pastor / pope in this one... Edit : Nope. The deep lore goes unanswered. 50 Elden Ring videos and not a single one addressing the Turtle Pope in the room.
it’s just a fun nod to grrm. he likes turtles! and as one of the most important storytellers in the base game, it’s appropriate. there’s cut content about turtle meat helping virility, he marries the two most important leaders who were at war, and also teaches incantations.
Turtles are referred to as “wise beasts” in the different towers we find, so it makes sense that a giant, intelligent and speaking turtle would be respected. Still unsure where the religious part of it comes in, but at least it’s a church in the magic/intelligence region of TLB. But as mentioned turtle meat improves virility, so one engaging people into marriages may make sense
I like how Metyr's big attack looks like a quasar (which are essentially the most destructive forces in nature ever irl) So happy this videos out. Ymir became my favorite character instantly when I first meet him, and since that point back in June I couldn't wait for you to make a video about him and the fingers. Just so much reality changing lore items one after the other in Ymirs guest line.
Elden Ring was bigger in scope and ideas than all of their previous games, so it makes sense that they'd take the "dying world" idea to the next level too
Ymir and Gideon both corroborate that the Two Fingers are no longer in contact with the Greater Will. We are fighting a holy war for a God that has turned it's back on us.
I'm picturing these giant old gods walking up to the massive towers and leaning in to hear what these tiny little people, who climbed all the way to the top just so their voices could be heard, have to say.
12:10 Reminds me of what C.S Lewis says about the duality of good and evil. He says that dualistic moral systems will always be subordinate to a third arbiter, something that draws the line on a pre-existing set of actions, creating good and evil. The way this connects with Elden Ring is in how Order, whatever it looks like, seems to always arise from boundaries (or fractures) created inside of a pre-existing oneness.
I've never played the other souls games, aside from watching the odd boss fight on TH-cam. Seeing Metyr for the first time was both awe and creepy at the same time.
Love it! Smough, I have watched all of your Elden Ring videos, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this before but I love your voice! It’s very soothing and it has character’
This was really well put together and I'm glad you took your time before covering Metyr and Yimir. They were probably the biggest highlight for me during my playthrough.
Something that think lore channels have overlooked when looking at Ymir is his name. The Norse giant who is the primordial ancestor of all giants and is used to create the heavens, mountains, oceans, realms, and trees, and the other races. Names in Miyazaki games often carry great significant and characters in fiction that inspired them. I think that should be a starting point. The mean of their name and the possible inspiration.
I think it is not that the greater will is dead. If the outer gods can't truly die i dont think it's possible that the greater will can truly die. I also think it is literally the greater will of the fractures that lead to the creation of other gods. I Also think it is simply that the greater will abandoned the realm. Abandonment had to have come after the elden beast. Next i think the seed the two fingers presented marika was the elden beast. After becoming a agod she became one with the elden beast birth the erdtree. That could explain why the erdtree and the elden beast are linked together and the elden ring is within Marika.
You know, sometimes I think about if Miyazaki & GRRM truly fleshed out a world with such interconnection, so many characters, so many civilizations and intricate details, or they just laid down the fundation and enjoy theories just as much as we do, because they didn't actually write all the details of events/backstories/connections. It seems like such a massive undertaking both in terms of creating the world itself, its characters and stories - and coordinating its execution. Don't know if any of you actually watched the credits but there are so many 3rd party companies they partnered with, it seems insane how this managed to be such a cohesive work of art.
The Greater Will "abandoned" the Lands Between during/following the Shattering War(Opening Cutscene). Therefore, The Greater Will was "present" before that. So even during the foundation of the Golden Order, The GW was "there". But the fingers could not interpret The GW's will/wants correctly or at all. With that, I do not believe the "God is dead" theory, at least not until the Shattering.
Smough I am super impressed with how you have improved as a content creator. The collaborations you’re bringing in to enhance the synthesis of ideas has really improved your presentation. Love your work
I’ve been waiting for this one for a while! Not even a week ago I was looking for a Smoughtown Metyr video and was surprised that there wasn’t one. THANK YOU!
Great video and even better collaboration! I too like Garrulous Goldmask so this was a pleasure to watch. You guys are a beacon at how cool and tight this community can be.
was really excited for your Metyr video because she was the most interesting part of the DLC for me. big thanks to you and Garrulous Goldmask for this video!
man i don't think i'll ever tire of elden ring lore videos. so many rich and complex stories packaged into one game. so many things to reflect on with regards to my own life. thanks once again for the superb lore video, smough!
I have been trying for fucking months to get people to see the truth, and you have breached some of those topics, so I thank you. The One Great was a Great Single Golden Ring in the Void, from which exploded out all life throughout the cosmos. The resulting effects of the collapsing star seen throughout the universe as a "primeval current", identical to a neutron star collapsing into a black hole The One Great then goes from being a great Ring of gold, to a feeble bubble of light (This also gives us an explanation to the Bubble Oracles, and WHY they are looking at a bubble. It's their perspective of the Microcosm, the barely stable sphere of potential that will guide their path) (Interestingly, we see a similarity in the Godskin Nobles the Fat Inquisitors, and the Oracle Envoys. Almost like they are living jar-less Crucibles, but we will return to Living Crucibles eventually) It isn't hard to see the origin of why Gold manifests in the eyes, however, it is more fundamental than that Gold is in the very BLOOD of those Living in the Lands Between, causing it to never Rot and fester. It is in the Blood that Gold dwells. The gold of Grace, of Rune Power All things yearn to converge eternally because all life stems from gold seeded through out the universe. The Foundational Truth of Gold is that it seeks itself. (The evidence for Gold in the blood being important can be seen in the Man Eating Miranda Flowers, (why are they man Eaters? Cuz men have a high concentration of Gold.), as we see in the Bud Items that Glinstone, Blood and Ice are all viable sources of power (Residual life, Ancient Life, and absence of It) For Blood is also Heat, and Frost thus is the Absence of Heat, the Absence of Gold, the Absence of Life. When things go from Red to White, they do so due to being drained of Blood. The Fireflies also show us that Once again, Gold, Silver, and Glinstone are viable sources of power. We also see the Land Octopi REQUIRE men in order to reproduce (Once again, probably because of the Rune Energy needed to create new life) In ASoIaF, we find out that Bran is a Greenseer, which is supposedly very rare. *"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." "I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean." "In a sense."* I think in this same way, we can View Shamans and Empyreans as parallels to Skinchangers and Greenseers. The Shaman Village essentially being (much like areas in the North in GoT) Numen followers of old and ancient ways, sacrificing gold(blood) to the trees and calling stars for guidance, their warriors facing down mighty Beasts in the wild and claiming them as their own personal deities to channel further power from (which we learn from the Highland and Gloried sets, as well as Red Bear Pelt and Roar of Rugalea). The Hinterlands are definitely filled with OLD belief structures, of animism and old ritual. I think Marika was a "Chosen Enpyrean" of the Festival, and after she was gifted the collective runes of the festival, she was sent off to go on her journey to blow the Finger Whistles and "have her fate guided by the stars", so that she would eventually meet Metyr, and be Reaped for her Gold by Destined Death, so that Metyr could collect the Runes for the GW. It gets a little hazy here, as I feel like Marika could have been kidnapped/yoinked by the Hornsent to become a Jar Saint, but it's harder to line that up, for a few reasons. But, Somewhere along the way, however, I believe she met with Horah Loux, a champion of the Age of the Crucible, and fellow believer in the Old Ways. Her Status as Empyrean and his as a Hero would make them the perfect candidates to start a whole new age of Gold, why else has she been sent on this journey? It's not like she would know her pilgrimage would end in her death (I imagine Empyreans don't come back, so insert XYZ excuse people made foe why that could have been) Moving along, pretty confident the Horned Warriors based their outfits on Horah Loux, as the "unclothed warrior of old", who defeated and wore Serrosh, a la Hercules They saw his conquests and wished to emulate his power, adding horns to his legend in a manner of taking ownership to help propagandist their principles (There is also clear reference to the Old Hero of Demon's Souls) (Which also gives us a tangential link to the **Blind Swordsman** as well) The Shrine of Storms was also our first peek at a civilization that interred its dead in the very foundations. Metyr's literal Head which we use as a weapon has the Weapon Art referring to "Kowtowing" which is very specifically bowing in Surrender, and we know the Gloam Eyed Queen was Deafeated and her Powrrs taken away. Since Metyr is the literal daughter of God, I can imagine why the Desire to use your Bowed Head position to FLICK them away would be so desirable. The Weapons of the Godskins are huge to be the tools for which their clothes are made, yet they are claimed to be so. For someone of Metyr's size, this wouldn't be an issue. There's a shed Snake skin identical to the one in Church of Eigley within literal spitting distance of Manus Metyr, right in the Bonny Village, which the story of it and Shaman village is mirrored in dark and light between Jarburg and Dominula villages, where the Light Festive Village is tormented and skin alive while they perform rituals of Rune Collection, and the Jar Village has its Numen potentate defeated by poachers who want the knowledge/what resides in the jars, All this within the careful gazeof the Astologers in Manus Metyr, with Rabbath with his Magical Turret cannon defending the road leading from Bonny Village, in case the locals ever rebelled I actually think this is to reinforce the connection of Bonny Village /Manus Metyr (Because I believe the Astrologers got the the Hornsent to commit the atrocities on the Shaman, for experimentation and the resulting conversion to psuedo-night worship) This is to remind us of the Other Snake Skin, and what is there Much like how Shaman Village reminds us of Dominula, which also Has a Godskin Now why would they be reminding us of these things, unless there was an implicit connection that they were trying to make? I'm just gunna say it, do we know what a Jar Saint Looks like? No. But I bet I can guess, and it likely has a lot of aspects of the Crucible *Insert Picture of Godskin Nobles Here* Funny how aspects of the Serpent, that sign of the Abyss, of the Darknest Night, and of Death, is something that they share They are also covered in the flesh of those who have been drained of Blood. Why? Cuz Blood has Gold in it, and Gold are Runes. Runes are Stardust, and the GW wants all the Golden Stardust BACK You could also make the claim that the Skins they wear come from Jar People. Would explain the extra faces, but I instead consider it an aspect of those Ancients that they killed, the Giant Old Gods that none can remember anymore, but who we know could knock people up into the air with their great masses. Living Crucibles, or Vessels of Rune Power, come in many forms, and they all have similar roots And root is that the Universe was all 1 Ring of Gold, hanging in perfection in the Void, until it broke and scattered life as among the stars, which were all that remained of its once perfect being.
A thought: Elden Ring's war against the Giants absolutely mirrors Greek Myth's Gigantomachy, the gods vs the Giants in both stories. Even down to Heracles / Horah Loux being a key figure who is credited with being a massive part of the war. And yeah I think Godfrey is Heracles/Hercules. Super strength, lion motif, their stories involve berserker rage, offense tied to wrestling, both are demigods. Lots of parallels between the two. And if that war was the Gigantomachy then we could theorize the massive remains, the ones that tower even over the giants, to possibly be the Titans.
33:44 I wondered if the tubes in the Metyr boss fight are like Robert Penrose's conscious and quantum mechanics theory artistically represented. The mother of consciousness which is why light and black holes are part of the theme. IDK what makes the fingers move. 🤔
@SmoughTown one thing i would ask though, why do you think count emyr is talking about the greater will when he says the fingers' mother is the issue. wouldn't the more obvious candidate considering his questline be that he's talking about metyr, combined with the vacant gaze metyr is mentioned to have?
Awesome video as always Geoff, it was so sick to bring Goldmask in the video, you two are probably my favorite loretubers out there. Well i have a question for you Geoff, if you don’t mind: If the Greater will is long gone, who banished the nox to the underground ? Marika, Metyr, the Fingers or perhaps the nox proved the Wrath of a God before this very God vanished, i would like to know your answer on this take. Anyway, have a great week my friend, i can’t wait for, rest well and don’t you dare go hollow.
My pleasure, was awesome having GG work with me on this video. So I did almost include this - but It could be that the Greater Will dissipated over time...or as GG suggests in his video on the Greater Will, the Nox being banished underground could have been done by Marika and her forces. He translates the Nox outfits from the kanji, and says it could be interpreted differently, as them being 'defeated' by the forces of the GW. Or I am just wrong of course haha. Have a great week and thanks of always for the support!
Sorry that this is super long I just have so many thoughts! This video is super interesting, I think that this leads directly into your theory that the greater will "doesnt care" about who mends the elden ring. I think that, instead of desiring order, the greater will desires to be complete. This would mirror what sellen attempt to do, joining more celestial, primoridal mass together inorder to become more like primeval energy. This would maybe explain why marika herself was a condensed 2 people, even more than 2 if we assume she is a shaman "saint" and that she recieved the energy at the divine gateway. The fact that the empyrean twins were infected by outer gods and still chosen by the two fingers may suggest that they thought to incorporate even that into this oneness. Finally if we assume the crucible is a form of this primordial energy it would make sense that it pakcs seemingly multiple creatures into one, and the hornsent may be relfecting this practice with the shamans. I'm not sure how this squares with your other theories but it would be incredibly interesting if the Greater will was almost like this "Gravity" that pulls things together, and like our IRL gravity, its losing to other forces pulling things apart, fracturing them. Im not sure what the three fingers role would be in all of this however. I could maybe suggest that the three fingers are whats left of the GW's "will" in a xoreupted form (note it wasn't born of metyr). Perhaps there was a time the GW tried to encourage the world back together through vassals and broke too much to even do that, with all remaining the sole uniting force trying to meld everything together. Surely a crackpot theory but a fun one
the idea of metyr and the elden beast being clashing divine aspects of the greater will is, like a lot of elden ring to me, evocative of neon genesis evangelion and the “war” between adam and lillith for control over the souls of the planet, either through adam’s angels or lillith’s lillin
Dear SmoughTown First: You are the best Souls game lore creator without question and I can say we are all very grateful for your work! ❤ It would be a pleasure to see this kind truly deep lore videos about Demon's Souls. ❤
That really is too kind my friend! I do my best and I love this game so much. I have been meaning to go back to Demon's Souls, has long been one of my fave games. I'll look into it!
The Two Fingers and Three Fingers reflect parts of a triquetra-like cycle of life, death, and rebirth, but neither is whole. The Two Fingers focus on life and rebirth while denying death, creating a stagnant, incomplete system. The Three Fingers embrace the missing element of death but take it too far, plunging into chaos and madness. Rejecting both isn’t the solution either, as it would mean denying the cycle altogether - ignoring the need for life, death, and renewal to work together. True balance requires accepting all parts of the triquetra, finding harmony between creation, destruction, and transformation. The balance, in this case, represents all 5 fingers together. This is based on the concept of Carl Jung's human psychology. The story is basically about restoring balance, and to achieve individuality/wholeness/Spiritual Enlightenment. Which we are unable to achieve in Elden Ring. One has to accept and confront the traumatic event, in order to move forward. As above, so below. The Lands between represents the conscious, the Land of Shadows represents the unconscious, the Erdtree represents the Ego, and the Scadutree represents the shadow, where Radagon, the fallen angel (dragons are often portrayed as fallen angels, the more wings, the higher the status), represents the Animus and the Golden Order represents the Persona. The dying Erdtree represents Ego-death. The Tarnished represent determination, the maidens represent willpower. Invaders represent intrusive thoughts and emotions, and the blue NPCs locked away in an Evergaol are suppressed thoughts and emotions. Everything mentioned, up to this point, are Primordial archetypes. And, then you also have Archetypes, all the demi-god children, which are part of the self. Examples of the archetypes are; the wounded warrior, the divine child, the hero, the rebel, the tyrant, the mother, the shadow, the wise old man, the wannabe hero, the outcast... Everything that we're aware of, happens in the Lands Between, and everything that we're not aware of, or are trying to forget/suppress, is located in the Land of Shadows. We access our unconscious 'realm' while we're dreaming, which can then make us aware of unaware conflicts. Messmer, represents the suppressed trauma. He's fighting for Marika's acknowledgement, and she tries her best to not acknowledge him. What's happening in the Lands Between is that the trauma is becoming too much for Marika, and so, her mask (persona/Order) is slipping. The concept of Empyrean are basically the archetypes that can force a big change in Marika's life, and we know from the wise old (wo)man (Melina), that we'll keep on resetting the world, until Marika finally confronts Death herself (her traumatic event (the loss of a child)). "The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death." The one great, the creature, the demiurge... is Marika herself, the ignorant god, and her inner world created from chaos. Melina's goal is to guide us to the moment where Marika lost her guiding light. The Lighthouse of Alexander, also known as Pharos, represents the guiding light, which leads us to Maliketh. This is also why Melina, as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, gets upset with us, since we're not allowing her to deal with her conflicts on her own. Miquella's ending represents taking away the divine spark from mankind, removing pain and suffering from the world. It's a bad ending in the making. And, Ranni's ending represents Nihilism. ps. Ranni was meant to marry Godwyn, but he basically got tricked by Hagen (Alberich's son), and fell in love with Fia/Fortissax, and Ranni killed 'm, all because of that blasted cursed ring! Ranni, when we put a ring on her finger, was already wearing one. This story mirrors that of Ring Des Nibelungen, where Godwyn represents Siegfried, Fia/Fortissax represents Gutrune and Ranni represents Brünnhilde. In the end, Brünnhilde sacrifices herself. This act ends the cycle of the Ring’s destructive power and restores the natural order. Godwyn's story is also told through Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Gylfaginning, where Hermóðr (Miquella) is asked by his mother Frigg (Marika), to return Baldr (Godwyn) from hell. Rennala as Rindr, gets tricked by Odin (Radagon) and they have a child together, called Vali, who is created to avenge Baldr's death. In the end, this rescue attempt fails, because Loki, who indirectly kills Baldr, didn't cry. Frigg's maidens seem to be represented by the Black Knife Assassins. There are many games that tell this exact same story, but in a slightly different tone. I would recommend checking some of them out; Final Fantasy (7,8, 9 & 10), Stray, Zelda's Majora's Mask, Silent Hill, Persona (3R & 5R), Shin Megami Tensei (3 and 5), Genshin Impact, etc. In all these games, The conclusion is about achieving Individuality/Spiritual Enlightenment/Wholeness, by confronting a traumatic event, and in a lot of cases it's the death of a loved one.
32:44 what if Metyr’s arena is physically below the Elden Beast’s arena, like the nightmare realms in Bloodborne? The tube-like structures dangling from the ceiling remind me of the luminous trees in EB’s place.
Here I didn't think there was much more lore for us to figure out, and then you two drop this video. Probably one of the best lore videos out there with the revelations you guys discovered/explained.
I think a big thing jn elden rings story is things that are happening in the micro scale are also happening on the macro scale in the realm of the divine. I think that the greater will, upon seeing how order could never truly be re-established, simply left. This is what i believe happened with Marika as well, or what she was planning on doing and why she shattered the elden ring. In the same way we have Marika's offspring fighting for control over the tattered remains on the world, we also have the different outergods, who also are fighting for control over whatever form of order will come next. We have St Trina in the DLC who states that god hood is a prison, which is something Marika comes to realize with the end of her age of abundance and all the troubles which came afterwords. It takes chaos to establish peace, but once peace is achieved it becomes a constant struggle to maintain that peace and in that lies thw truth of godhood/what it means to have power: it is an endless torment of which you can never be free because there will always be problems. I think the revalation that The Greater Will had been gone for a very very long time to me kind of cements this. Maybe it created the elden beast and said "you handle this" and peaced out
Not too far in, but considering Metyr in regards to a "science" and things breaking down, I think of daughter product isotopes; when radioactive materials break down, they create daughter product.
This is one of the most fascinating lore videos I've watched. So fascinating I can't write any new, illuminating thoughts I might have because I have to mull it over for a bit first. Thanks so much for this video!
The greater will kinda reminds of me of the tao. I think there are some Taoist principles in Elden Ring, I’ll have to look into it more. Also the greater will being dead reminds me of nietzsche’s “God is dead.”
Hey smough great video. I would love to here your take on which of the available endings you feel most aligns with what Ansbach wanted. Keep up the great work!
This is the perfect content to learn more about my favorite game, and then when I’ve learned all I can, it’s so comforting that it puts me right to sleep if I need it. Thanks Smough!
Thank you for covering her, her fingies and the connection to The Greater Will 🥰🥰 your Elden Ring videos are just amazing and your voice is soothing 😊 this playlist helps me sleep and that's hard to do so thank you for the sleepy peace I get and the amazing lore 💜💜
16:44 Well, there is a line in the original Announcement Trailer describing the Elden Ring as "that which commanded the stars... giving life its fullest brilliance". The Elden Ring is a product of the Greater Will, so this is not exactly a surprise.
The dissonance to learn of deceptions from the Two Fingers and accordingly throw out previous assumptions but then take Ymir completely and lucidly at his word as if he is the supreme authority of the truth of the game's universe is wild. Dude tries to kill you a few minutes after he says all this shit. He incidentally knows some relevant shit, but he's also transparently insane.
I've also had this thought cross my mind during my playthrough. It's kind of a two truths and a lie kinda game with this guy. He has some good points but which of them are actually true? Is the greater will truly dead or not? We may never know. Call it Shrodinger's greater will lol
@@thinlizzy9032 Both Miyazaki and Martin seem to model human psychology sufficiently so as to write characters that do not represent an infallible objective worldview but rather motivated reasoning and experience, just as people are in real life.
Good lore, Shit Boss. In all seriousness, the revelation of Metyr's lore makes me reason with Goldmask and Sir. Ansbach even more. The Gods sure are incredibly inconsistent and unreliable. Call them 'Folly', call them 'Fickle', call them 'Rotten'. It makes me realize that the NPCs and individual playthroughs have more impact than any God or even the Greater Will in general, regardless if we even know who's in control. Like the words of the GOAT Ansbach: "Become our New Lord. Not for Gods, but for Men."
In my head cannon, I believed that: - Metyr was getting messages from GW and sending them to two fingers by the holes at the boss arena. - I believed that Fingerslayer Blade is used at least once before and the victim was Metyr. - After Metyr is injured she cannot receive messages from GW anymore but still able to pass wisdom to Two Fingers. - Even after sealing of Shadow Realm, she cannot send messages to Two Fingers and that is what we are told "Two Finger's guidance is skewed". + I could say our pair of Two Fingers are go still because they think there is no other choice but communicating directly to GW (like Placidusax) and they 'forced' themselves to commune with GW. + and after that LOVELY video, although I didn't change a lot at my head connon, I am thinking that sealing of Shadow Realm seems very useful to Elden Beast. It might has a 'finger' in this event. Thanks for video.
Did not know about Corhyn calling the Two Fingers' Prayerbook heresy. Crazy. The Two Fingers being antagonistic to Golden Order Fundamentalism is a "truth-bomb." Great video!
The word "Metyr" or "Matyr" in hebrew means to detach. It could be used in a way to untie a knot, or for instance, in vows. In Jewish religion, vows are very serious, and once a year, you are required to release yourself from your vows, to purify yourself. In a nutshell. The word "Matyr" is used in that context as well. To release oneself from their vows. Although it should be said that Metyr is the daughter of the greater will, whereas the word "Matyr" is the male version of the word. The female version would be "Matyra". It all might be just a coincidence but I think it's cool how in a way, the connection between Metyr and the greater will have been detached, just like the name suggests. Hope you find that useful in some way, great video as always ! 👌🏼
I like to think, mostly from Ymir's hat, that the Greater Will is the infinite expanse of nothing upon which matter and energy make the universe as we know it, and that all this talk of the Greater Will's machinations can be interpreted as a form of fate rather than an intelligent being's design; 'fate' split the One Great, 'fate' sent shooting stars towards the land carrying advanced life
Another great, well made and edited thorough video. I like how you give credit too and cover all bases. Would you consider making another video about some smaller lore topics like you did once in the past where you spoke of the moon church ruins and a certain cave in Mt. Gelmir? I really liked that one and would love to see more ♥️
Thanks so much, really pleased you enjoy it! I am 100% considering it, coincidentally I have a new google doc noting any 'small stories' I come across in my current playthrough
Yo, I love where you are going with this already and I'm only 17 min in. Bro, you comments about Radagon reminded me of a video I saw by a new user named, "Elden Dork," where he makes an amazingly good case for Radagon being Velka, I $!ht you not. It's so amazing and combined with your boss video (with the illustrious Garrulous Goldmask) on the connection between the Greater Will and glintstone sorcery are making so many things finally make so much sense. The Souls community is the best community! =)
Man, the entire Elden Ring era was just fantastic. The view that you're presented with upon arriving at The First Step for the very first time is one of the best memories I have playing video games.
The DLC truly brought light to many mysteries from the base game (not everything is answered but) it gives many new revelations: To why things seem to collapse so quickly because it was meant to in a way, "Perfect Order" or "Absolute Chaos" can't exist without the other hence the Golden Orders fall or stagnation Even with all these cosmic Gods, they can't control or determine everything no matter how much they try and to me they are change but not an absolute which could explain why The Greater Will or the Elden Beast can accept Dung Eater's Order, the Order of Rot, or etc. I also gotta say that your Lore Dives should really be checked out by many more people because you can really connect and add to new ideas, making stellar videos
What I love about Metyr's story (and Elden Ring in general) is the reinforcement that there is no infallible entity guiding all of the world and the people in it. Even those seen as gods are just that: SEEN as gods. But they are biased, flawed, and ultimately just a being in a position of power trying to shape the world as they see fit. There is no ultimate order, no ultimate authority. Just...people. Even the gods aren't exempt from that.
Black holes possess extremely high mass but low volume, resulting in incredible density. Similar to the One Great being extremely dense life, and the lord of Frenzied Flame’s head is also akin to the popular image of a black hole.
58:30 its important to remember that the Count wants to take Metyr's place though. Thats his whole bag. He wants to be a finger mama. I mean, Metyr is obviously demented as per the other lore items. I think its still important to always look at npc dialogue, narrations, and even item description lore, in all the fromsoft games with a little bit of skepticism, based on who's doing the talking, narrating, or item describing and their goals in the universe. I love your videos and love your take on a lot of fromsoft lore. You da man. Thanks for what you do!
1:00:04 i have a question, if the greater will is gone then what or who is responsible for banishing the nox underground? It is stated in the nox armour pieces that the greater will is the one responsible.
Great question! I have two possible answers: a) The Greater Will died after it banished the Nox underground. OR b) The "ire of the Greater Will" that the Nox invoked could be another way of saying an "act of God."
I’m starting to wonder if the “outer gods” are actually the gods of previous ages in the same way that Marika is the god of the current age; for example, the fell god of the giants being the same god of smithing talked about in the Shadow Lands. Everything we learn about in the base game is through the lens of the Golden Order and Marika’s desire to be known as the one true god, so of course they’re all “bad” like when Christianity turned the various polytheistic deities into demons.
![Shadow of The Erdtree | Story & Ending Explained [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/StWOECzhSik/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Use my link to get 50% off and free shipping on your first Factor box! strms.net/factor75_se6165437
I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beast and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to humans selectively breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eyes are plucked dies while sometimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order so frenzied flame a more vilent harvester and goldenorder more symbiotic ... since kings rules for weqlth and power bu i doubt an alient powerful being would have motivatione of wealth and power but meybe they wanted somthing else from life it self .. the currency in lands between also related closely to life itself so maybe for those beings the poteial of life to work for them and to somehow sustain them might b these "outer gods " purpose i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beat and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to ow humans slectivelt breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eleys are plucked dies while someimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order o golden order has a less invasive relationship wit life in lands between than the frenzied flame "god" but they ultimaely are aliens harvesting somthing from the life like when people died the are burried at the foot of the erd tree which wws specifically changed from the bodies which were simply burnt by ghost flame before the order of the erd tree so greater will does want somthing here too its somehow related to the dead and their remains while the antient old ones harvest from the living , and w must think tat normally in human world kings take powers for the leasures and wealth they will get but welath and power inst necessarily somthing a god wqnts in eldenring ehich i think strictly speaking arnt gods but just harvestors so these out beings don necessarly want power or wealth from life of lands between but rather sustainace these outerbeinngs are symbiotically dependent on life and want diffrent things from it and hence they are in competition with each other over life i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
The stone sheathed sword and the alters of light and dark. While I'm not entirely sure when it connects but they point to a very early age when light and dark ruled the world more then any of the gods of known history.
The irony of the whole story is that Ranni started the Lands Between on a path towards death and destruction, all so that she could be free from what she saw as the machinations of the Greater Will... and yet it's entirely possible that even that far back, the GW was already gone; meaning that all the tragedy and loss of the story from the Night of the Black Knives onward, was based on a lie; because if it really was just the Fingers responsible for all of this, Ranni could've just killed those in order to set herself free.
Another solid vid, and amazing collab with Goldmask, I love his vids too :)
This video, plus some others had me thinking: if metyr is the first rock to hit TLB, then maybe the Greater Will was at first INT based, and then eventually the Nox found a way to harm GW and thus GW abandoned Metryr and INT in exchange for pure faith and tried to have total control "embodiment of order". Maybe the shunning of the Nox was because they found out the GW wasn't all powerful and decided to kill it, but then GW stopped that with the Elden Beast and allowing Marika to take total control, chopping down any culture that didn't agree.
Miriel only survived being an exposition character by being a massive tortoise. His shell protected him from Myizaki's reaping blade that slays any character that dares give s direct answers about the plot.
Miriel: You cannot kill me.
Miyazaki: No, but I can scrap the ending where you become elden lord.
Miriel: Fair enough.
Kale: FAIR ENOUGH?
It was an absolute delight collaborating with you Smough!
Thank you so much brother, the pleasure was all mine. You elevated the script with your keen insights into matters I would completely miss. Thank you so much
@@SmoughTown If I may ask you in this theory here, what would the positions of the Outer Gods like the God of Rot, the Formless Mother, and Frenzied Flame now be?
Great contribution
Finally, the only thing that took me by storm when I came across it. Not Marika's past, not Radhahn's return, not even the Messmer backstory. Metyr was the single most ground breaking lore revelation in this dlc, giving me this sweet walk down memory lane, when I first saw the nightmares of Yharnam. There is always a bigger fish and I adore the fact they went that way and did not just say "Marika was evil for the sake of evil."
Glad im covering the subject you are most interested in - hope you like my take
Nah, nothing wrong with a villain who's just a villain.
So what do you guess is the bigger fish beyond the greater will and the frenzied flame?
@@DeathsjesterKMNP Yes, but we already have those. Dung Eater and Shabriri.
@@parameciazoan2040 Greater Will as it likely birthed the Frenzied Flame in the first place. But to call the Greater Will a 'fish' might be incorrect as its likely just the 'lake' itself.
*Metyr* : It sure is lonely here... It's a good thing I can always receive calls from Dad!
*Nox with some creepy knife* : He'll have to leave a voice message.
Imagine showing this joke to a peasant in the Middle Ages.
Well The Greater Will abandoned Metyr even before that. The Eternal Cities look like they make up parts of Leyndell (kinda). As Leyndell looks cut in half.
It’s simple, I see new lore from smough, I click, I feast. Very simple.
I appreciate that - hope you enjoy this one
@@SmoughTownfeed us more father , we grow hungry once again.
Why am I actually eating food every time I put one of these on lol
Let the feast begin.
If Elden Ring gets a sequel of some kind. I'd really like Metyr to be one of the main antagonists
Since her boss fight doesn't end with the "Boss Defeated" message. She teleports away, implying she just ran in fear. Still around and able to manipulate people
A cool idea, I thought it would also be interesting to have her actually become a npc, like imagine finding her wherever she went off too, only to be extremely wounded and beg us for mercy and then give us just pure lore exposition.
It says legend felled after u beat the boss, but yeah it doesn't look like she necessarily died
Defeat doesn't necessarily mean "killed" in the first place but either way I love the thought of us not killing it.
Imo Elden Ring 2 will be a lot about snakes and godskins
Wish she was a being that went crazier as time went by after being abandoned (even more crazier than it is). DLC in the Land of Reeds would be cool too.
I like to imagine the Tarnished just sitting on their throne and chilling only to hear a sound coming from Metyr's head, and when they put it next to their ear like a phone they hear "hey Matyr, it's me, the greater will, sorry for not calling, i got kinda busy with work, anyway, tell the giants to start building these-" while the Tarnished is just panicking because they killed the GW daughter.
Finding Metyr will always be my favorite Elden Ring Moment. Because me and my friend were playing at the same time and we were talking about the dlc then me and her both did the quest together and it was such an amazing experience.
The mystery behind the fingers the boss fights getting behind Messmer castle it was so much fun to experience that with them. It will forever be my most favorite Elden Ring experience. That's also why Metyr is my favorite boss in the game.
Agreed - it was a real magical and unexpected moment
When Ymir started lore dumping on me I was like "Yes, finally, tell me what the fuck is going on"
So it turns out, Elden Ring is actually the long-awaited prequel to Bloodborne.
No relation to any other game as stated by FS themselves, stop the cope
@Bubloi did he really need the /s, friendo?
@@Bubloibro was not being serious……
@@Bubloi relax sweetheart
@@Bubloi chill out lil bro
Try finge- wait what do you mean the greater will abandoned us long ago? Do not tell Gold Mask about this.
I think there's a strong implication he actually restores the connection with it. Compare the design of the Mending Rune of Perfect Order with the "microcosm" summoned by Metyr
@@soarel325I like this, but I also kinda thought he knew the golden will has been gone far longer than most tarnished seemed to think.
I'm partial to the theory that like in some religious scholars schools of thought, all those that search the truth end up learning of god no matter if theyve been in contact with the religion or not. Through seeking understanding of Grace Goldmask reverse engineered the intent of the greater will and learned the truth of absolute order
Gold Mask knows. That is why he made contact with Greater Will and wanted to remove small gods (like Marika) from equation as they were too liable to be ruled by passions.
Gold mask knows nothing imo. It's pure ignorance. While Gold mask points out the flaws of Golden Order Fundamentalism, and weeps about "when" it went wrong. Metyr expands the point that the Golden Order's entire conception was always wrong. Goldmask initially seemed to be a positive ending. Now seems far worse.
Either you can see it as the
1. Gw Died.
2. Gw abandoned TLB.
Goldmask ending. And to that end, Ranni's ending both are futile because TLB have been abandoned for a while. Everything that resulted was the Golden Order in it's conception.
TLDR : Elden Ring DLC made all endings = Bad endings.
This explain a mystery that I didn't understand before: Why is there no Site-of-Graces within the Finger Ruins? Your proposal that Metyr and the Elden Beast are actually opposing forces explain that a lot, if you consider Site-of-Grace as an extension of Marika/EldenBeast branch of will.
As if you still managed to sneak in a cheeky Albinauric Bloodclot reference. *shakes fingers*
HAHHAHH - I won't be stopped
56:39 Elden beast: hey you old crone!
Metyr: what
Elden beast: look what I can do (gives her a thumbs up)
Metyr: 😮🤬
I always thought her head and neck are supposed to be a thumb
When I read through the descriptions and saw "microcosm" mentioned multiple times, the question came up of "microcosm of what", and the implications of that and what was shown in the fight and within the microcosm iconography had me utterly terrified IRL for about 30 minutes.
Think it's supposed to be a microcosm of the observable universe
The abyss instead of staring back gave you the finger.
You gained insight
@@aceundead4750 your comment definitely should be at the top, lol
There’s paradoxical in a really captivating way about a lovecraftian alien that evolved in conditions completely and utterly removed from the human condition inexplicably taking the form of a malformed human hand.
Cosmic horror isn’t just the mere presence of something unfathomable and unknowable, it’s the inability of humanity to ever cease seeking to tame the infinite despite knowing fully the futility of their endeavours. Metyr strongly encourages that kind of thinking the same way Kos and her Orphan does; why do they look so much like us?
The pillars in metyrs room always looked to me like speaking tubes you would find on boats. She has a large concentration of them because she needs to relay information either as a parent or as a voice of the greater will to the rest of the lands between
I think it's also interesting that both the ceiling and the floor are water.
Could also be "IDK just make it look Eldritch, Mr. Artist"
@monsieurdorgat6864 one reason I think water exists in the arena of both the Elden Beast and Metyr is because space is sometimes referred as the "cosmic ocean." Their arenas are thematically fitting as such.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt Almost as if their environments are from the perspective of the Tarnished, their mind trying to visualise their cosmic arenas as something they can understand: the ocean
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt That does seem like a common theme they continued from Bloodborne! They might be implying (without going too far into it) that the cosmology is similar - with layers of mixed consciousness/firmament.
Though this is pretty out of the scope of the game. Fromsoftware is clearly going for "There's an insane, unimaginable cosmos out there and even attempting to grasp the greater mysteries of this cosmos will drive you insane!"
It's much more about what these great forces mean for the Lands Between, not so much about the forces themselves. Kinda like Smough said: the Greater Will might have abandoned the Lands Between or is dead. It's Marika's power and Marika's grace that we see. God is the power on earth, not in the cosmos above.
Also worth noting that they extend down from the ceiling of her boss arena, which itself is made of presumably water or some type of fluid, while the Elden Beast’s arena has a floor made of fluid with spectral tree trunks growing upwards.
Very interesting theory about Finger's incantation being heresy. Mindblowing to be honest. I'll definitely look at the game with new angle in further playtrough. I also agree about the nature of the stars. They being children of Greater Will. This means Ranni's ending is not really against the Greater Will.
Hovewer i don't think i'm sold on Greater Will being dead. Main reason is that i don't know what to do with old lore about Greater Will abandonment being result of shattering the Elden Ring. I don't think we should just write it off as a retcon and don't address it.
And finally if Fingers are trying to overthrow Marika to replace her order why then standard "no brain cells" ending is with us being another Marika's consort?
So yeah, i'm 50/50 with you on this one :)
I think whether the Greater Will is dead or whether it is ignoring the Two Fingers is meant to be sorta uncertain. After all, that is the nature of faith, and faith holds real power in these games.
As for the Fingers looking to replace Marika - I don't think the Fingers particularly care whether Marika is replaced or not. What matters is that their agent is in charge. When you become consort to Marika, she remains a lifeless husk that only holds the Elden Ring. You're the one really in charge - and you sit the throne alone.
I dont even understand where 'ranni is against gw' came from in the first. I don't think she really gaf about GW or knows it exists in the first place. Carian have a history to trying to hide a study of primoval current, and such the origin of universe.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i don’t agree with lifeless husk theory. First of all it’s a throne of Elden Lord in a first place. So us sitting there is nothing unusual.
Second - we repair the Erdtree, so why wouldn’t Marika be repaired?
Also those ER endings are “continue the cycle” endings without radical changes. Especially standard one. Thematically Marika being “dead” but order continues doesn’t fit as it’s something new entirely while it’s supposed to be “merely a cycle”.
Also while we repair Elden Ring we bow to Marika the same way we bow to Ranni. So it looks like a marriage proposal. This works better with living person.
I don’t see any evidence she is a husk so i’m not sure where this idea came from.
The symbolism in this game is just so amazing. It also parallels how humans have grown to view the concept of creation over time.
Crucible period represents our time viewing earth as the origin of all creation. The Geater Will represents the Sun and the Golden Order the long period of time we have see the Sun as a diety, and our solar system as the center of the universe.
And now Miquella renouncing the sins of his ancestors is like Millenials and Gen Z renouncing boomers.
Since the Lands Between still has the Sun it's why I'm tempted to think the Greater Will is still around. Especially since there's a direct line from the Sun through the damaged columns on the summit of the Isolated Divine Tower and the base of modern day Farum Azula indicating a path of a golden meteor from the Sun to Farum Azula. Potentially.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt You could see it as the Sun is there there, we just understand that in the greater cosmos the Sun is but a small part of a much larger system of inluence in the galaxy and beyond that. Much like the impact of the Moons related to their respective counterparts in the game. We know the side that faces us, but we find the dark side we never see to be so alluring.
I used to try to puzzle out how the fingers related to the elden beast and there was a clear disconnect i couldn't explain.
Metyr explains that so well
Perhaps SmoughTown will finally explain why there's a turtle that's a pastor / pope in this one...
Edit : Nope. The deep lore goes unanswered. 50 Elden Ring videos and not a single one addressing the Turtle Pope in the room.
it’s just a fun nod to grrm. he likes turtles! and as one of the most important storytellers in the base game, it’s appropriate.
there’s cut content about turtle meat helping virility, he marries the two most important leaders who were at war, and also teaches incantations.
Pope Turtle needs no explanation. He just Is.
One does not need to explain the Turtle Pope. Heresy is but a contrivance; all things can be conjoined. Even turtles and popes.
“Dog” pope!
Turtles are referred to as “wise beasts” in the different towers we find, so it makes sense that a giant, intelligent and speaking turtle would be respected. Still unsure where the religious part of it comes in, but at least it’s a church in the magic/intelligence region of TLB. But as mentioned turtle meat improves virility, so one engaging people into marriages may make sense
I like how Metyr's big attack looks like a quasar (which are essentially the most destructive forces in nature ever irl)
So happy this videos out. Ymir became my favorite character instantly when I first meet him, and since that point back in June I couldn't wait for you to make a video about him and the fingers. Just so much reality changing lore items one after the other in Ymirs guest line.
Elden Ring was bigger in scope and ideas than all of their previous games, so it makes sense that they'd take the "dying world" idea to the next level too
agreed - thanks for being here dude!
Ahh perfect timing.
I think I’m going to have myself a nap. The only thing to do, really, after a nice Elden Ring lore video.
Ymir and Gideon both corroborate that the Two Fingers are no longer in contact with the Greater Will. We are fighting a holy war for a God that has turned it's back on us.
I'm picturing these giant old gods walking up to the massive towers and leaning in to hear what these tiny little people, who climbed all the way to the top just so their voices could be heard, have to say.
12:10 Reminds me of what C.S Lewis says about the duality of good and evil. He says that dualistic moral systems will always be subordinate to a third arbiter, something that draws the line on a pre-existing set of actions, creating good and evil.
The way this connects with Elden Ring is in how Order, whatever it looks like, seems to always arise from boundaries (or fractures) created inside of a pre-existing oneness.
Another amazing video!
So so many great insights.
Just another way to enjoy playing the game with another perspective
I've never played the other souls games, aside from watching the odd boss fight on TH-cam. Seeing Metyr for the first time was both awe and creepy at the same time.
Love it! Smough, I have watched all of your Elden Ring videos, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this before but I love your voice! It’s very soothing and it has character’
Thank you so much, that's really kind. So happy you have enjoyed the videos and my voice!
I’m glad you brought up the fingerslayer blade, I feel like it has more impact on the lore than I imagined. Love the video!!
This was really well put together and I'm glad you took your time before covering Metyr and Yimir. They were probably the biggest highlight for me during my playthrough.
Appreciate that and I am glad as well, feel it came out pretty well rounded. Ofc GG's insights really helped
Something that think lore channels have overlooked when looking at Ymir is his name. The Norse giant who is the primordial ancestor of all giants and is used to create the heavens, mountains, oceans, realms, and trees, and the other races.
Names in Miyazaki games often carry great significant and characters in fiction that inspired them. I think that should be a starting point. The mean of their name and the possible inspiration.
I think it is not that the greater will is dead. If the outer gods can't truly die i dont think it's possible that the greater will can truly die. I also think it is literally the greater will of the fractures that lead to the creation of other gods. I Also think it is simply that the greater will abandoned the realm. Abandonment had to have come after the elden beast.
Next i think the seed the two fingers presented marika was the elden beast. After becoming a agod she became one with the elden beast birth the erdtree. That could explain why the erdtree and the elden beast are linked together and the elden ring is within Marika.
post-hospital shift breakfast AND a smoughtown lore video?!?
my day off is gonna be great!!!
Awesome! Enjoy your day off and the content!
You know, sometimes I think about if Miyazaki & GRRM truly fleshed out a world with such interconnection, so many characters, so many civilizations and intricate details, or they just laid down the fundation and enjoy theories just as much as we do, because they didn't actually write all the details of events/backstories/connections. It seems like such a massive undertaking both in terms of creating the world itself, its characters and stories - and coordinating its execution. Don't know if any of you actually watched the credits but there are so many 3rd party companies they partnered with, it seems insane how this managed to be such a cohesive work of art.
The Greater Will "abandoned" the Lands Between during/following the Shattering War(Opening Cutscene). Therefore, The Greater Will was "present" before that.
So even during the foundation of the Golden Order, The GW was "there". But the fingers could not interpret The GW's will/wants correctly or at all.
With that, I do not believe the "God is dead" theory, at least not until the Shattering.
Don't forget, with insight comes madness. 💀
Smough I am super impressed with how you have improved as a content creator. The collaborations you’re bringing in to enhance the synthesis of ideas has really improved your presentation. Love your work
Really appreciate that - I really enjoyed working with GG who helped round out my ideas by giving a fresh and new perspective
@@SmoughTownkeep it up man. I feel like these videos really enhanced my enjoyment of some of my favorite games ever. Cheers
@@SmoughTownGG has a certain way of finding hidden details I hadn’t seen mentioned elsewhere, so him enhancing even your great videos is great
@@noamias4897 agreed - he has a talent for deciphering the meaning of the lore
Let’s goooooo, a new lore video from Smoughtown to listen to while I make deliveries over the road.
I’ve been waiting for this one for a while! Not even a week ago I was looking for a Smoughtown Metyr video and was surprised that there wasn’t one. THANK YOU!
Thanks so much for being here and sorry for the wait, hope you enjoy!
No need to apologize sir. You always deliver, and do it with superb content! Just keep up the good work at your own pace and don’t burn out please!
Great video and even better collaboration! I too like Garrulous Goldmask so this was a pleasure to watch. You guys are a beacon at how cool and tight this community can be.
Really appreciate that, it was awesome working with GG and I feel he elevated the video. Glad the response has been so positive!
was really excited for your Metyr video because she was the most interesting part of the DLC for me. big thanks to you and Garrulous Goldmask for this video!
My pleasure! I am so pleased you enjoyed!
man i don't think i'll ever tire of elden ring lore videos. so many rich and complex stories packaged into one game. so many things to reflect on with regards to my own life. thanks once again for the superb lore video, smough!
Me neither, I just love this world so much. So pleased you enjoyed and thanks for being here!
I have been trying for fucking months to get people to see the truth, and you have breached some of those topics, so I thank you.
The One Great was a Great Single Golden Ring in the Void, from which exploded out all life throughout the cosmos. The resulting effects of the collapsing star seen throughout the universe as a "primeval current", identical to a neutron star collapsing into a black hole
The One Great then goes from being a great Ring of gold, to a feeble bubble of light
(This also gives us an explanation to the Bubble Oracles, and WHY they are looking at a bubble. It's their perspective of the Microcosm, the barely stable sphere of potential that will guide their path)
(Interestingly, we see a similarity in the Godskin Nobles the Fat Inquisitors, and the Oracle Envoys. Almost like they are living jar-less Crucibles, but we will return to Living Crucibles eventually)
It isn't hard to see the origin of why Gold manifests in the eyes, however, it is more fundamental than that
Gold is in the very BLOOD of those Living in the Lands Between, causing it to never Rot and fester. It is in the Blood that Gold dwells. The gold of Grace, of Rune Power
All things yearn to converge eternally because all life stems from gold seeded through out the universe. The Foundational Truth of Gold is that it seeks itself.
(The evidence for Gold in the blood being important can be seen in the Man Eating Miranda Flowers, (why are they man Eaters? Cuz men have a high concentration of Gold.), as we see in the Bud Items that Glinstone, Blood and Ice are all viable sources of power (Residual life, Ancient Life, and absence of It)
For Blood is also Heat, and Frost thus is the Absence of Heat, the Absence of Gold, the Absence of Life.
When things go from Red to White, they do so due to being drained of Blood.
The Fireflies also show us that Once again, Gold, Silver, and Glinstone are viable sources of power.
We also see the Land Octopi REQUIRE men in order to reproduce (Once again, probably because of the Rune Energy needed to create new life)
In ASoIaF, we find out that Bran is a Greenseer, which is supposedly very rare.
*"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." "I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean." "In a sense."*
I think in this same way, we can View Shamans and Empyreans as parallels to Skinchangers and Greenseers. The Shaman Village essentially being (much like areas in the North in GoT) Numen followers of old and ancient ways, sacrificing gold(blood) to the trees and calling stars for guidance, their warriors facing down mighty Beasts in the wild and claiming them as their own personal deities to channel further power from (which we learn from the Highland and Gloried sets, as well as Red Bear Pelt and Roar of Rugalea). The Hinterlands are definitely filled with OLD belief structures, of animism and old ritual.
I think Marika was a "Chosen Enpyrean" of the Festival, and after she was gifted the collective runes of the festival, she was sent off to go on her journey to blow the Finger Whistles and "have her fate guided by the stars", so that she would eventually meet Metyr, and be Reaped for her Gold by Destined Death, so that Metyr could collect the Runes for the GW.
It gets a little hazy here, as I feel like Marika could have been kidnapped/yoinked by the Hornsent to become a Jar Saint, but it's harder to line that up, for a few reasons.
But, Somewhere along the way, however, I believe she met with Horah Loux, a champion of the Age of the Crucible, and fellow believer in the Old Ways. Her Status as Empyrean and his as a Hero would make them the perfect candidates to start a whole new age of Gold, why else has she been sent on this journey? It's not like she would know her pilgrimage would end in her death (I imagine Empyreans don't come back, so insert XYZ excuse people made foe why that could have been)
Moving along, pretty confident the Horned Warriors based their outfits on Horah Loux, as the "unclothed warrior of old", who defeated and wore Serrosh, a la Hercules
They saw his conquests and wished to emulate his power, adding horns to his legend in a manner of taking ownership to help propagandist their principles
(There is also clear reference to the Old Hero of Demon's Souls)
(Which also gives us a tangential link to the **Blind Swordsman** as well)
The Shrine of Storms was also our first peek at a civilization that interred its dead in the very foundations.
Metyr's literal Head which we use as a weapon has the Weapon Art referring to "Kowtowing" which is very specifically bowing in Surrender, and we know the Gloam Eyed Queen was Deafeated and her Powrrs taken away. Since Metyr is the literal daughter of God, I can imagine why the Desire to use your Bowed Head position to FLICK them away would be so desirable.
The Weapons of the Godskins are huge to be the tools for which their clothes are made, yet they are claimed to be so. For someone of Metyr's size, this wouldn't be an issue.
There's a shed Snake skin identical to the one in Church of Eigley within literal spitting distance of Manus Metyr, right in the Bonny Village, which the story of it and Shaman village is mirrored in dark and light between Jarburg and Dominula villages, where the Light Festive Village is tormented and skin alive while they perform rituals of Rune Collection, and the Jar Village has its Numen potentate defeated by poachers who want the knowledge/what resides in the jars,
All this within the careful gazeof the Astologers in Manus Metyr, with Rabbath with his Magical Turret cannon defending the road leading from Bonny Village, in case the locals ever rebelled
I actually think this is to reinforce the connection of Bonny Village /Manus Metyr (Because I believe the Astrologers got the the Hornsent to commit the atrocities on the Shaman, for experimentation and the resulting conversion to psuedo-night worship)
This is to remind us of the Other Snake Skin, and what is there
Much like how Shaman Village reminds us of Dominula, which also Has a Godskin
Now why would they be reminding us of these things, unless there was an implicit connection that they were trying to make?
I'm just gunna say it, do we know what a Jar Saint Looks like?
No.
But I bet I can guess, and it likely has a lot of aspects of the Crucible
*Insert Picture of Godskin Nobles Here*
Funny how aspects of the Serpent, that sign of the Abyss, of the Darknest Night, and of Death, is something that they share
They are also covered in the flesh of those who have been drained of Blood. Why? Cuz Blood has Gold in it, and Gold are Runes. Runes are Stardust, and the GW wants all the Golden Stardust BACK
You could also make the claim that the Skins they wear come from Jar People. Would explain the extra faces, but I instead consider it an aspect of those Ancients that they killed, the Giant Old Gods that none can remember anymore, but who we know could knock people up into the air with their great masses.
Living Crucibles, or Vessels of Rune Power, come in many forms, and they all have similar roots
And root is that the Universe was all 1 Ring of Gold, hanging in perfection in the Void, until it broke and scattered life as among the stars, which were all that remained of its once perfect being.
A thought: Elden Ring's war against the Giants absolutely mirrors Greek Myth's Gigantomachy, the gods vs the Giants in both stories. Even down to Heracles / Horah Loux being a key figure who is credited with being a massive part of the war. And yeah I think Godfrey is Heracles/Hercules. Super strength, lion motif, their stories involve berserker rage, offense tied to wrestling, both are demigods. Lots of parallels between the two. And if that war was the Gigantomachy then we could theorize the massive remains, the ones that tower even over the giants, to possibly be the Titans.
So happy you blew up man, it’s so deserved. I remember watching your appearances on the snack covenant lol. Keep it up love the content as always
Really appreciate that my friend - I am genuinely so lucky. I will do!
33:44 I wondered if the tubes in the Metyr boss fight are like Robert Penrose's conscious and quantum mechanics theory artistically represented. The mother of consciousness which is why light and black holes are part of the theme. IDK what makes the fingers move. 🤔
this was an incredible video and really made me like the lore even more!
That's great to hear! So pleased
@SmoughTown one thing i would ask though, why do you think count emyr is talking about the greater will when he says the fingers' mother is the issue. wouldn't the more obvious candidate considering his questline be that he's talking about metyr, combined with the vacant gaze metyr is mentioned to have?
Awesome video as always Geoff, it was so sick to bring Goldmask in the video, you two are probably my favorite loretubers out there. Well i have a question for you Geoff, if you don’t mind: If the Greater will is long gone, who banished the nox to the underground ? Marika, Metyr, the Fingers or perhaps the nox proved the Wrath of a God before this very God vanished, i would like to know your answer on this take.
Anyway, have a great week my friend, i can’t wait for, rest well and don’t you dare go hollow.
My pleasure, was awesome having GG work with me on this video.
So I did almost include this - but It could be that the Greater Will dissipated over time...or as GG suggests in his video on the Greater Will, the Nox being banished underground could have been done by Marika and her forces. He translates the Nox outfits from the kanji, and says it could be interpreted differently, as them being 'defeated' by the forces of the GW.
Or I am just wrong of course haha.
Have a great week and thanks of always for the support!
I love the Nietzsche/Lovecraftian aspect that "God is Dead"... it gives all hope away. I love it!
Finally! A worthy video! My meal will be legendary!
What are eating?
@@siberyuswithengard7364 Boiled Crab
@TheMuslimMan1337 very healthy! Enjoy your meal and have a wonderful day!!
@@siberyuswithengard7364Exalted Flesh.
Why is Tai Lungs line from King fu panda popping up everywhere
Sorry that this is super long I just have so many thoughts!
This video is super interesting, I think that this leads directly into your theory that the greater will "doesnt care" about who mends the elden ring. I think that, instead of desiring order, the greater will desires to be complete. This would mirror what sellen attempt to do, joining more celestial, primoridal mass together inorder to become more like primeval energy.
This would maybe explain why marika herself was a condensed 2 people, even more than 2 if we assume she is a shaman "saint" and that she recieved the energy at the divine gateway.
The fact that the empyrean twins were infected by outer gods and still chosen by the two fingers may suggest that they thought to incorporate even that into this oneness.
Finally if we assume the crucible is a form of this primordial energy it would make sense that it pakcs seemingly multiple creatures into one, and the hornsent may be relfecting this practice with the shamans.
I'm not sure how this squares with your other theories but it would be incredibly interesting if the Greater will was almost like this "Gravity" that pulls things together, and like our IRL gravity, its losing to other forces pulling things apart, fracturing them.
Im not sure what the three fingers role would be in all of this however. I could maybe suggest that the three fingers are whats left of the GW's "will" in a xoreupted form (note it wasn't born of metyr). Perhaps there was a time the GW tried to encourage the world back together through vassals and broke too much to even do that, with all remaining the sole uniting force trying to meld everything together.
Surely a crackpot theory but a fun one
Everyone wants to know about Greater Will, but what about Greater Won't?
truth
the idea of metyr and the elden beast being clashing divine aspects of the greater will is, like a lot of elden ring to me, evocative of neon genesis evangelion and the “war” between adam and lillith for control over the souls of the planet, either through adam’s angels or lillith’s lillin
Dear SmoughTown
First: You are the best Souls game lore creator without question and I can say we are all very grateful for your work! ❤
It would be a pleasure to see this kind truly deep lore videos about Demon's Souls. ❤
That really is too kind my friend! I do my best and I love this game so much.
I have been meaning to go back to Demon's Souls, has long been one of my fave games. I'll look into it!
@@SmoughTown Thank you so much for your professional work! I will waiting for your new videos! 🥂
The Two Fingers and Three Fingers reflect parts of a triquetra-like cycle of life, death, and rebirth, but neither is whole. The Two Fingers focus on life and rebirth while denying death, creating a stagnant, incomplete system. The Three Fingers embrace the missing element of death but take it too far, plunging into chaos and madness. Rejecting both isn’t the solution either, as it would mean denying the cycle altogether - ignoring the need for life, death, and renewal to work together. True balance requires accepting all parts of the triquetra, finding harmony between creation, destruction, and transformation. The balance, in this case, represents all 5 fingers together.
This is based on the concept of Carl Jung's human psychology. The story is basically about restoring balance, and to achieve individuality/wholeness/Spiritual Enlightenment. Which we are unable to achieve in Elden Ring. One has to accept and confront the traumatic event, in order to move forward. As above, so below. The Lands between represents the conscious, the Land of Shadows represents the unconscious, the Erdtree represents the Ego, and the Scadutree represents the shadow, where Radagon, the fallen angel (dragons are often portrayed as fallen angels, the more wings, the higher the status), represents the Animus and the Golden Order represents the Persona. The dying Erdtree represents Ego-death. The Tarnished represent determination, the maidens represent willpower. Invaders represent intrusive thoughts and emotions, and the blue NPCs locked away in an Evergaol are suppressed thoughts and emotions. Everything mentioned, up to this point, are Primordial archetypes.
And, then you also have Archetypes, all the demi-god children, which are part of the self. Examples of the archetypes are; the wounded warrior, the divine child, the hero, the rebel, the tyrant, the mother, the shadow, the wise old man, the wannabe hero, the outcast...
Everything that we're aware of, happens in the Lands Between, and everything that we're not aware of, or are trying to forget/suppress, is located in the Land of Shadows. We access our unconscious 'realm' while we're dreaming, which can then make us aware of unaware conflicts. Messmer, represents the suppressed trauma. He's fighting for Marika's acknowledgement, and she tries her best to not acknowledge him. What's happening in the Lands Between is that the trauma is becoming too much for Marika, and so, her mask (persona/Order) is slipping.
The concept of Empyrean are basically the archetypes that can force a big change in Marika's life, and we know from the wise old (wo)man (Melina), that we'll keep on resetting the world, until Marika finally confronts Death herself (her traumatic event (the loss of a child)). "The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death." The one great, the creature, the demiurge... is Marika herself, the ignorant god, and her inner world created from chaos. Melina's goal is to guide us to the moment where Marika lost her guiding light. The Lighthouse of Alexander, also known as Pharos, represents the guiding light, which leads us to Maliketh. This is also why Melina, as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, gets upset with us, since we're not allowing her to deal with her conflicts on her own.
Miquella's ending represents taking away the divine spark from mankind, removing pain and suffering from the world. It's a bad ending in the making. And, Ranni's ending represents Nihilism.
ps. Ranni was meant to marry Godwyn, but he basically got tricked by Hagen (Alberich's son), and fell in love with Fia/Fortissax, and Ranni killed 'm, all because of that blasted cursed ring! Ranni, when we put a ring on her finger, was already wearing one. This story mirrors that of Ring Des Nibelungen, where Godwyn represents Siegfried, Fia/Fortissax represents Gutrune and Ranni represents Brünnhilde. In the end, Brünnhilde sacrifices herself. This act ends the cycle of the Ring’s destructive power and restores the natural order.
Godwyn's story is also told through Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Gylfaginning, where Hermóðr (Miquella) is asked by his mother Frigg (Marika), to return Baldr (Godwyn) from hell. Rennala as Rindr, gets tricked by Odin (Radagon) and they have a child together, called Vali, who is created to avenge Baldr's death. In the end, this rescue attempt fails, because Loki, who indirectly kills Baldr, didn't cry. Frigg's maidens seem to be represented by the Black Knife Assassins.
There are many games that tell this exact same story, but in a slightly different tone. I would recommend checking some of them out; Final Fantasy (7,8, 9 & 10), Stray, Zelda's Majora's Mask, Silent Hill, Persona (3R & 5R), Shin Megami Tensei (3 and 5), Genshin Impact, etc. In all these games, The conclusion is about achieving Individuality/Spiritual Enlightenment/Wholeness, by confronting a traumatic event, and in a lot of cases it's the death of a loved one.
32:44 what if Metyr’s arena is physically below the Elden Beast’s arena, like the nightmare realms in Bloodborne? The tube-like structures dangling from the ceiling remind me of the luminous trees in EB’s place.
Here I didn't think there was much more lore for us to figure out, and then you two drop this video. Probably one of the best lore videos out there with the revelations you guys discovered/explained.
RIP Albinauric Bloodclot (2022-2024)
Gone but not forgotten 😔
still king dw
Btw the microcosm sound effect in metrys boss fight is a recording of a black hole , quite literally is a black hole
I think a big thing jn elden rings story is things that are happening in the micro scale are also happening on the macro scale in the realm of the divine.
I think that the greater will, upon seeing how order could never truly be re-established, simply left. This is what i believe happened with Marika as well, or what she was planning on doing and why she shattered the elden ring.
In the same way we have Marika's offspring fighting for control over the tattered remains on the world, we also have the different outergods, who also are fighting for control over whatever form of order will come next.
We have St Trina in the DLC who states that god hood is a prison, which is something Marika comes to realize with the end of her age of abundance and all the troubles which came afterwords.
It takes chaos to establish peace, but once peace is achieved it becomes a constant struggle to maintain that peace and in that lies thw truth of godhood/what it means to have power: it is an endless torment of which you can never be free because there will always be problems.
I think the revalation that The Greater Will had been gone for a very very long time to me kind of cements this. Maybe it created the elden beast and said "you handle this" and peaced out
Not too far in, but considering Metyr in regards to a "science" and things breaking down, I think of daughter product isotopes; when radioactive materials break down, they create daughter product.
Never thought I’d see the day that the Albinauric Blood Clot would be challenged.
neither did I - its still on top though!
This is one of the most fascinating lore videos I've watched. So fascinating I can't write any new, illuminating thoughts I might have because I have to mull it over for a bit first. Thanks so much for this video!
That's such high praise! Thank you so much, really pleased that you enjoyed!
Ah, the Lore Master has blessed us with a new video!
Edit: the Lore Master gave me a heart! I feel really lucky today!
The greater will kinda reminds of me of the tao. I think there are some Taoist principles in Elden Ring, I’ll have to look into it more. Also the greater will being dead reminds me of nietzsche’s “God is dead.”
Hey smough great video. I would love to here your take on which of the available endings you feel most aligns with what Ansbach wanted. Keep up the great work!
This is the perfect content to learn more about my favorite game, and then when I’ve learned all I can, it’s so comforting that it puts me right to sleep if I need it. Thanks Smough!
My pleasure! Thanks for being here
Thank you for covering her, her fingies and the connection to The Greater Will 🥰🥰 your Elden Ring videos are just amazing and your voice is soothing 😊 this playlist helps me sleep and that's hard to do so thank you for the sleepy peace I get and the amazing lore 💜💜
My pleasure! So pleased you like my voice and content, and appreciate the support
@@SmoughTown you're my favorite ER channel 🥰will always support you 😁
good synopsis as usual...but...that 1st shot, of the grace in the roundtable, not being centered bothered me to no end LOL
Hahah, im sorry!
Wonderful Lore!!
Will be looking into Garrulous Goldmask
Incidentally the search for enlightenment often begins with the pointing of a finger
GG is awesome
The concept of Metyr/Fingers manipulating Marika (and thus, our character) as an opposing factions to Elden Beast/Radagon is extremely suggesting.
16:44 Well, there is a line in the original Announcement Trailer describing the Elden Ring as "that which commanded the stars... giving life its fullest brilliance". The Elden Ring is a product of the Greater Will, so this is not exactly a surprise.
The dissonance to learn of deceptions from the Two Fingers and accordingly throw out previous assumptions but then take Ymir completely and lucidly at his word as if he is the supreme authority of the truth of the game's universe is wild. Dude tries to kill you a few minutes after he says all this shit. He incidentally knows some relevant shit, but he's also transparently insane.
Very true!
@@SmoughTown I love your output, ST!!!
Ymir is pretty massively an unreliable narrator, and you should take everything he says with a fire giant sized grain of salt.
I've also had this thought cross my mind during my playthrough. It's kind of a two truths and a lie kinda game with this guy. He has some good points but which of them are actually true? Is the greater will truly dead or not? We may never know. Call it Shrodinger's greater will lol
@@thinlizzy9032 Both Miyazaki and Martin seem to model human psychology sufficiently so as to write characters that do not represent an infallible objective worldview but rather motivated reasoning and experience, just as people are in real life.
Another excellent video, and thank you for the reference!
My pleasure Erik - thanks for the awesome video, your ideas really resonated with me - looking forward to more!
Good lore, Shit Boss.
In all seriousness, the revelation of Metyr's lore makes me reason with Goldmask and Sir. Ansbach even more. The Gods sure are incredibly inconsistent and unreliable. Call them 'Folly', call them 'Fickle', call them 'Rotten'. It makes me realize that the NPCs and individual playthroughs have more impact than any God or even the Greater Will in general, regardless if we even know who's in control.
Like the words of the GOAT Ansbach:
"Become our New Lord. Not for Gods, but for Men."
In my head cannon, I believed that:
- Metyr was getting messages from GW and sending them to two fingers by the holes at the boss arena.
- I believed that Fingerslayer Blade is used at least once before and the victim was Metyr.
- After Metyr is injured she cannot receive messages from GW anymore but still able to pass wisdom to Two Fingers.
- Even after sealing of Shadow Realm, she cannot send messages to Two Fingers and that is what we are told "Two Finger's guidance is skewed".
+ I could say our pair of Two Fingers are go still because they think there is no other choice but communicating directly to GW (like Placidusax) and they 'forced' themselves to commune with GW.
+ and after that LOVELY video, although I didn't change a lot at my head connon, I am thinking that sealing of Shadow Realm seems very useful to Elden Beast. It might has a 'finger' in this event.
Thanks for video.
Love your content. The lore of these games is so fun, and your voice is relaxing.
Much appreciated - really pleased you enjoy the content!
Did not know about Corhyn calling the Two Fingers' Prayerbook heresy. Crazy. The Two Fingers being antagonistic to Golden Order Fundamentalism is a "truth-bomb." Great video!
Bro let's gooooo more long form lore
More to come for sure!
The word "Metyr" or "Matyr" in hebrew means to detach. It could be used in a way to untie a knot, or for instance, in vows.
In Jewish religion, vows are very serious, and once a year, you are required to release yourself from your vows, to purify yourself. In a nutshell.
The word "Matyr" is used in that context as well. To release oneself from their vows.
Although it should be said that Metyr is the daughter of the greater will, whereas the word "Matyr" is the male version of the word. The female version would be "Matyra".
It all might be just a coincidence but I think it's cool how in a way, the connection between Metyr and the greater will have been detached, just like the name suggests.
Hope you find that useful in some way, great video as always ! 👌🏼
I like to think, mostly from Ymir's hat, that the Greater Will is the infinite expanse of nothing upon which matter and energy make the universe as we know it, and that all this talk of the Greater Will's machinations can be interpreted as a form of fate rather than an intelligent being's design; 'fate' split the One Great, 'fate' sent shooting stars towards the land carrying advanced life
Another great, well made and edited thorough video. I like how you give credit too and cover all bases.
Would you consider making another video about some smaller lore topics like you did once in the past where you spoke of the moon church ruins and a certain cave in Mt. Gelmir? I really liked that one and would love to see more ♥️
Thanks so much, really pleased you enjoy it! I am 100% considering it, coincidentally I have a new google doc noting any 'small stories' I come across in my current playthrough
Always happy to see you drop a new video bro
19:22 the line about individuality taking hold reminds me of the beastmen losing their beastial nature as they became more civilized and intelligent
The greater will been real quiet since this dropped....
I'll see myself out
Yo, I love where you are going with this already and I'm only 17 min in.
Bro, you comments about Radagon reminded me of a video I saw by a new user named, "Elden Dork," where he makes an amazingly good case for Radagon being Velka, I $!ht you not. It's so amazing and combined with your boss video (with the illustrious Garrulous Goldmask) on the connection between the Greater Will and glintstone sorcery are making so many things finally make so much sense.
The Souls community is the best community! =)
Man, the entire Elden Ring era was just fantastic. The view that you're presented with upon arriving at The First Step for the very first time is one of the best memories I have playing video games.
Thus spoke Zarathustra seems to have been a major influence on the game
Yet another banger from you Smough. This man never misses, every video is quality
Thanks so much my friend, appreciate your support and kind words
The DLC truly brought light to many mysteries from the base game (not everything is answered but) it gives many new revelations:
To why things seem to collapse so quickly because it was meant to in a way, "Perfect Order" or "Absolute Chaos" can't exist without the other hence the Golden Orders fall or stagnation
Even with all these cosmic Gods, they can't control or determine everything no matter how much they try and to me they are change but not an absolute which could explain why The Greater Will or the Elden Beast can accept Dung Eater's Order, the Order of Rot, or etc.
I also gotta say that your Lore Dives should really be checked out by many more people because you can really connect and add to new ideas, making stellar videos
What I love about Metyr's story (and Elden Ring in general) is the reinforcement that there is no infallible entity guiding all of the world and the people in it. Even those seen as gods are just that: SEEN as gods. But they are biased, flawed, and ultimately just a being in a position of power trying to shape the world as they see fit.
There is no ultimate order, no ultimate authority. Just...people. Even the gods aren't exempt from that.
Little known lore fact: Metyr knows over 1,000 jokes, but they all start with "pull my finger."
Black holes possess extremely high mass but low volume, resulting in incredible density. Similar to the One Great being extremely dense life, and the lord of Frenzied Flame’s head is also akin to the popular image of a black hole.
Perfect timing, I have to finish my essay about software having this next to me is nice motivation
Awesome, I really hope you enjoy this one
14 minutes ago is craaazzzyyy !
Thank you for blessing us with your great wisdom and divine knowledge.
Thank so much for being here!
58:30 its important to remember that the Count wants to take Metyr's place though. Thats his whole bag. He wants to be a finger mama. I mean, Metyr is obviously demented as per the other lore items. I think its still important to always look at npc dialogue, narrations, and even item description lore, in all the fromsoft games with a little bit of skepticism, based on who's doing the talking, narrating, or item describing and their goals in the universe. I love your videos and love your take on a lot of fromsoft lore. You da man. Thanks for what you do!
1:00:04 i have a question, if the greater will is gone then what or who is responsible for banishing the nox underground? It is stated in the nox armour pieces that the greater will is the one responsible.
I was wondering about this too! Great question
Great question! I have two possible answers:
a) The Greater Will died after it banished the Nox underground.
OR b) The "ire of the Greater Will" that the Nox invoked could be another way of saying an "act of God."
The thumbnail makes her look so curvyyy 😭😭😭
Thicc
Bro get help
@@agripinaa8684 idc I wanna eat her up 👅👅
Amazing work, man. Can't wait to see what you do next.
Thanks my friend - hope you enjoy this one!
I’m starting to wonder if the “outer gods” are actually the gods of previous ages in the same way that Marika is the god of the current age; for example, the fell god of the giants being the same god of smithing talked about in the Shadow Lands. Everything we learn about in the base game is through the lens of the Golden Order and Marika’s desire to be known as the one true god, so of course they’re all “bad” like when Christianity turned the various polytheistic deities into demons.