I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beast and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to humans selectively breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eyes are plucked dies while sometimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order so frenzied flame a more vilent harvester and goldenorder more symbiotic ... since kings rules for weqlth and power bu i doubt an alient powerful being would have motivatione of wealth and power but meybe they wanted somthing else from life it self .. the currency in lands between also related closely to life itself so maybe for those beings the poteial of life to work for them and to somehow sustain them might b these "outer gods " purpose i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beat and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to ow humans slectivelt breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eleys are plucked dies while someimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order o golden order has a less invasive relationship wit life in lands between than the frenzied flame "god" but they ultimaely are aliens harvesting somthing from the life like when people died the are burried at the foot of the erd tree which wws specifically changed from the bodies which were simply burnt by ghost flame before the order of the erd tree so greater will does want somthing here too its somehow related to the dead and their remains while the antient old ones harvest from the living , and w must think tat normally in human world kings take powers for the leasures and wealth they will get but welath and power inst necessarily somthing a god wqnts in eldenring ehich i think strictly speaking arnt gods but just harvestors so these out beings don necessarly want power or wealth from life of lands between but rather sustainace these outerbeinngs are symbiotically dependent on life and want diffrent things from it and hence they are in competition with each other over life i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
The stone sheathed sword and the alters of light and dark. While I'm not entirely sure when it connects but they point to a very early age when light and dark ruled the world more then any of the gods of known history.
The irony of the whole story is that Ranni started the Lands Between on a path towards death and destruction, all so that she could be free from what she saw as the machinations of the Greater Will... and yet it's entirely possible that even that far back, the GW was already gone; meaning that all the tragedy and loss of the story from the Night of the Black Knives onward, was based on a lie; because if it really was just the Fingers responsible for all of this, Ranni could've just killed those in order to set herself free.
Another solid vid, and amazing collab with Goldmask, I love his vids too :) This video, plus some others had me thinking: if metyr is the first rock to hit TLB, then maybe the Greater Will was at first INT based, and then eventually the Nox found a way to harm GW and thus GW abandoned Metryr and INT in exchange for pure faith and tried to have total control "embodiment of order". Maybe the shunning of the Nox was because they found out the GW wasn't all powerful and decided to kill it, but then GW stopped that with the Elden Beast and allowing Marika to take total control, chopping down any culture that didn't agree.
Miriel only survived being an exposition character by being a massive tortoise. His shell protected him from Myizaki's reaping blade that slays any character that dares give s direct answers about the plot.
Thank you so much brother, the pleasure was all mine. You elevated the script with your keen insights into matters I would completely miss. Thank you so much
@@SmoughTown If I may ask you in this theory here, what would the positions of the Outer Gods like the God of Rot, the Formless Mother, and Frenzied Flame now be?
Finally, the only thing that took me by storm when I came across it. Not Marika's past, not Radhahn's return, not even the Messmer backstory. Metyr was the single most ground breaking lore revelation in this dlc, giving me this sweet walk down memory lane, when I first saw the nightmares of Yharnam. There is always a bigger fish and I adore the fact they went that way and did not just say "Marika was evil for the sake of evil."
@@parameciazoan2040 Greater Will as it likely birthed the Frenzied Flame in the first place. But to call the Greater Will a 'fish' might be incorrect as its likely just the 'lake' itself.
I like to imagine the Tarnished just sitting on their throne and chilling only to hear a sound coming from Metyr's head, and when they put it next to their ear like a phone they hear "hey Matyr, it's me, the greater will, sorry for not calling, i got kinda busy with work, anyway, tell the giants to start building these-" while the Tarnished is just panicking because they killed the GW daughter.
*Metyr* : It sure is lonely here... It's a good thing I can always receive calls from Dad! *Nox with some creepy knife* : He'll have to leave a voice message.
Well The Greater Will abandoned Metyr even before that. The Eternal Cities look like they make up parts of Leyndell (kinda). As Leyndell looks cut in half.
@@nevagongoflawless6340 I feel like it would make no sense in terms of narrative to have the fingerslayer blade, and Metyr's wound, be separate from her loss of connection. It's her huge, visible wound; it makes her a broken receiver; it directly explains the 'blasphemy' that the blade committed and the blade itself. Further, the Nox were explicitly cast below by the Greater Will, so if Metyr was abandoned already, why would the GW show up? I see their banishing as a sort of proto-Shattering, where the Greater Will lashed out after Metyr's connection was severed, but from that point on the Greater Will could only be contacted via the slow, questionable, maybe even futile Two Fingers, while Metyr hid away and obsessed over the now-silent microcosm.
@@benklug9233 The fingerslayer blades creation was Heresy. And hence "Astel the Naturalborn of the Void" to destroy and steal it's sky. The remnants of that civilization sits under Leyndell. Astel has the Sky in his arena. Nokron & Nokstella have their skies. The nameless Eternal City under Leyndell doesn't. Meaning following the logic -> Astel was sent before Radahn. (Sealed the Stars). (As after Radahn's defeat you free the stars.) But the Black Knife Assassin's are correlated to Marika. But they make clear ""A manifestation of the power with which Astel leveled the Eternal City."" That Astel leveled the City. For something to be considered Heresy and punishable. It must contradict a order. Also it's definitely not unlikely. Liurnia used to be far bigger less swampy. But it's sinking. And has been for a long time. The same logic here. The Eternal cities punishment was not outside the time of the Golden Order. (Because the Bkas were scions). This would fuel their purpose in assassinating and fulfilling their role in Godwyn's demise. (Due to the Treason of the blade.)
@@benklug9233 Oh but it does. For something to be Heresy it has to contradict something established. By the words of the Fingerslayer blade. It was "High Treason." Radhan sealed the Stars. So obviously before. But the BKas of the Nameless Eternal City, that were somehow related to Marika that also killed Godwyn the Golden of the Golden Order... making a blade in likeness to that of The Fingerslayer Blade. Just to spite the Golden Order despite their entire cities destruction. Fits the motif. While Ranni had her motivations, The Bkas had plenty of their own. Especially considering Nokstella has a sky. Nokron has a sky. Leyndell's Eternal city does not. Additionally it cannot be wielded by those without a fate. Such as Ranni's motivations. So unless someone of similar status hurt Metyr I highly doubt the fingerslayer blade was the culprit. It was the craft of such a weapon which was Heresy. Hence the punishment. It was specifically made to hurt the fingers and its vassals anyhow. Or yk. The only reason the Golden Order was Established. (Also) the greater will didn't show up. Metyr called the Astel's. Not the GW. Placcidusax is evidence that the GW left long before that of Metyr because he was the first "Elden Lord." And his god "fled". But he was the first Elden Lord. By the time the Golden order is beginning Metyr was just winging it. The GW left long before the Golden Order's establishment. I'd quote all the items that says this countless times.
Elden Ring was bigger in scope and ideas than all of their previous games, so it makes sense that they'd take the "dying world" idea to the next level too
If Elden Ring gets a sequel of some kind. I'd really like Metyr to be one of the main antagonists Since her boss fight doesn't end with the "Boss Defeated" message. She teleports away, implying she just ran in fear. Still around and able to manipulate people
A cool idea, I thought it would also be interesting to have her actually become a npc, like imagine finding her wherever she went off too, only to be extremely wounded and beg us for mercy and then give us just pure lore exposition.
Wish she was a being that went crazier as time went by after being abandoned (even more crazier than it is). DLC in the Land of Reeds would be cool too.
The pillars in metyrs room always looked to me like speaking tubes you would find on boats. She has a large concentration of them because she needs to relay information either as a parent or as a voice of the greater will to the rest of the lands between
@monsieurdorgat6864 one reason I think water exists in the arena of both the Elden Beast and Metyr is because space is sometimes referred as the "cosmic ocean." Their arenas are thematically fitting as such.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt Almost as if their environments are from the perspective of the Tarnished, their mind trying to visualise their cosmic arenas as something they can understand: the ocean
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt That does seem like a common theme they continued from Bloodborne! They might be implying (without going too far into it) that the cosmology is similar - with layers of mixed consciousness/firmament. Though this is pretty out of the scope of the game. Fromsoftware is clearly going for "There's an insane, unimaginable cosmos out there and even attempting to grasp the greater mysteries of this cosmos will drive you insane!" It's much more about what these great forces mean for the Lands Between, not so much about the forces themselves. Kinda like Smough said: the Greater Will might have abandoned the Lands Between or is dead. It's Marika's power and Marika's grace that we see. God is the power on earth, not in the cosmos above.
Also worth noting that they extend down from the ceiling of her boss arena, which itself is made of presumably water or some type of fluid, while the Elden Beast’s arena has a floor made of fluid with spectral tree trunks growing upwards.
A thought: Elden Ring's war against the Giants absolutely mirrors Greek Myth's Gigantomachy, the gods vs the Giants in both stories. Even down to Heracles / Horah Loux being a key figure who is credited with being a massive part of the war. And yeah I think Godfrey is Heracles/Hercules. Super strength, lion motif, their stories involve berserker rage, offense tied to wrestling, both are demigods. Lots of parallels between the two. And if that war was the Gigantomachy then we could theorize the massive remains, the ones that tower even over the giants, to possibly be the Titans.
When I read through the descriptions and saw "microcosm" mentioned multiple times, the question came up of "microcosm of what", and the implications of that and what was shown in the fight and within the microcosm iconography had me utterly terrified IRL for about 30 minutes.
Also, remember the Lands of Shadow were originally a part of the Lands Between until Marika removed it. A common theme in the DLC is the Shadow Lands pertaining to all things of Marika's past she wanted to hide away or saw unfit for the Golden Order. Interesting enough, the finger ruins only exist here and nowhere else in the game. Also, the wound on Metyr being caused by the finger slaying bladeis a common theiry I've seen and ties to a change in allegiance or usurping of power and Marika's betrayal. It would also open more speculation on why Astel, who aligns(thematically atleast) with Metyr attacked the eternal city.
I am the redditor who made the post you linked at 18:41. With the theory of the GW being dead. No, seriously, I’m that redditor. Interesting to see it made it to this video.
@ you can just google the title of the post and the name of the subreddit and find the whole post. User name is Marika’s t1ts. I made 2 posts on the subject, and the whole comments sections went crazy. The post is pretty clear though, and I’m glad so many people found it compelling.
Finding Metyr will always be my favorite Elden Ring Moment. Because me and my friend were playing at the same time and we were talking about the dlc then me and her both did the quest together and it was such an amazing experience. The mystery behind the fingers the boss fights getting behind Messmer castle it was so much fun to experience that with them. It will forever be my most favorite Elden Ring experience. That's also why Metyr is my favorite boss in the game.
There’s paradoxical in a really captivating way about a lovecraftian alien that evolved in conditions completely and utterly removed from the human condition inexplicably taking the form of a malformed human hand. Cosmic horror isn’t just the mere presence of something unfathomable and unknowable, it’s the inability of humanity to ever cease seeking to tame the infinite despite knowing fully the futility of their endeavours. Metyr strongly encourages that kind of thinking the same way Kos and her Orphan does; why do they look so much like us?
It does kinda make sense in a technically correct is the best kind of correct way So we think one of the preconditions to advanced problem solving skills and tool use is the human hand it’s uniquely suited to tool use more so than any other life on earth and thus we are the most advanced in technology For an alien species to reach earth irl they would need a similar or more advanced level of technology to us ergo its most likely they will have something similar to a human hand Thus being a human hand technically fits a likely extraterrestrial organism
This explain a mystery that I didn't understand before: Why is there no Site-of-Graces within the Finger Ruins? Your proposal that Metyr and the Elden Beast are actually opposing forces explain that a lot, if you consider Site-of-Grace as an extension of Marika/EldenBeast branch of will.
I like how Metyr's big attack looks like a quasar (which are essentially the most destructive forces in nature ever irl) So happy this videos out. Ymir became my favorite character instantly when I first meet him, and since that point back in June I couldn't wait for you to make a video about him and the fingers. Just so much reality changing lore items one after the other in Ymirs guest line.
Very interesting theory about Finger's incantation being heresy. Mindblowing to be honest. I'll definitely look at the game with new angle in further playtrough. I also agree about the nature of the stars. They being children of Greater Will. This means Ranni's ending is not really against the Greater Will. Hovewer i don't think i'm sold on Greater Will being dead. Main reason is that i don't know what to do with old lore about Greater Will abandonment being result of shattering the Elden Ring. I don't think we should just write it off as a retcon and don't address it. And finally if Fingers are trying to overthrow Marika to replace her order why then standard "no brain cells" ending is with us being another Marika's consort? So yeah, i'm 50/50 with you on this one :)
I think whether the Greater Will is dead or whether it is ignoring the Two Fingers is meant to be sorta uncertain. After all, that is the nature of faith, and faith holds real power in these games. As for the Fingers looking to replace Marika - I don't think the Fingers particularly care whether Marika is replaced or not. What matters is that their agent is in charge. When you become consort to Marika, she remains a lifeless husk that only holds the Elden Ring. You're the one really in charge - and you sit the throne alone.
I dont even understand where 'ranni is against gw' came from in the first. I don't think she really gaf about GW or knows it exists in the first place. Carian have a history to trying to hide a study of primoval current, and such the origin of universe.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i don’t agree with lifeless husk theory. First of all it’s a throne of Elden Lord in a first place. So us sitting there is nothing unusual. Second - we repair the Erdtree, so why wouldn’t Marika be repaired? Also those ER endings are “continue the cycle” endings without radical changes. Especially standard one. Thematically Marika being “dead” but order continues doesn’t fit as it’s something new entirely while it’s supposed to be “merely a cycle”. Also while we repair Elden Ring we bow to Marika the same way we bow to Ranni. So it looks like a marriage proposal. This works better with living person. I don’t see any evidence she is a husk so i’m not sure where this idea came from.
@@MKsukkiiMiso Ranni says outright that her goal is to destroy the GW and traverse the stars in search of these so called great gods in order to end their tyranny over the people once and for all. That's about as direct a confirmation as you can get in Elden Ring. She's pretty punk rock like that.
@@Zard1212 ....Because we literally saw her as a lifeless husk? After her body was broken with the shattering of the Elden Ring, left crumbling for aeons strung from her own rune arc, getting thoroughly trounced by the player, and finally being twisted and forged into a sword by the Elden Beast, there's not much left of her. All that remains is an empty shell, not even conscious, yet cruelly unable to die. If she could be restored, then it goes against the entire story of the game, which is that godhood is a curse and the entire theocracy of holy divinity is rotten from the top down. Even in the default ending, you can still see the crumbling ruin around you. It's very clear that becoming Elden Lord to Marika is simply perpetuating an increasingly decaying cycle with no divine guidance whatsoever. You are merely upholding an utterly broken system.
Something that think lore channels have overlooked when looking at Ymir is his name. The Norse giant who is the primordial ancestor of all giants and is used to create the heavens, mountains, oceans, realms, and trees, and the other races. Names in Miyazaki games often carry great significant and characters in fiction that inspired them. I think that should be a starting point. The mean of their name and the possible inspiration.
I think it is not that the greater will is dead. If the outer gods can't truly die i dont think it's possible that the greater will can truly die. I also think it is literally the greater will of the fractures that lead to the creation of other gods. I Also think it is simply that the greater will abandoned the realm. Abandonment had to have come after the elden beast. Next i think the seed the two fingers presented marika was the elden beast. After becoming a agod she became one with the elden beast birth the erdtree. That could explain why the erdtree and the elden beast are linked together and the elden ring is within Marika.
Slight correction: The remains of Ymir is used to create Midgardr, the world of mortals. The first two humans are later created from two tree trunks Odin and his brothers come upon while travelling through Midgardr. Also the translation of jotunn isn't "giant". The proper one would be something like "Devourer".
12:10 Reminds me of what C.S Lewis says about the duality of good and evil. He says that dualistic moral systems will always be subordinate to a third arbiter, something that draws the line on a pre-existing set of actions, creating good and evil. The way this connects with Elden Ring is in how Order, whatever it looks like, seems to always arise from boundaries (or fractures) created inside of a pre-existing oneness.
man i don't think i'll ever tire of elden ring lore videos. so many rich and complex stories packaged into one game. so many things to reflect on with regards to my own life. thanks once again for the superb lore video, smough!
I think there's a strong implication he actually restores the connection with it. Compare the design of the Mending Rune of Perfect Order with the "microcosm" summoned by Metyr
I'm partial to the theory that like in some religious scholars schools of thought, all those that search the truth end up learning of god no matter if theyve been in contact with the religion or not. Through seeking understanding of Grace Goldmask reverse engineered the intent of the greater will and learned the truth of absolute order
Gold Mask knows. That is why he made contact with Greater Will and wanted to remove small gods (like Marika) from equation as they were too liable to be ruled by passions.
Gold mask knows nothing imo. It's pure ignorance. While Gold mask points out the flaws of Golden Order Fundamentalism, and weeps about "when" it went wrong. Metyr expands the point that the Golden Order's entire conception was always wrong. Goldmask initially seemed to be a positive ending. Now seems far worse. Either you can see it as the 1. Gw Died. 2. Gw abandoned TLB. Goldmask ending. And to that end, Ranni's ending both are futile because TLB have been abandoned for a while. Everything that resulted was the Golden Order in it's conception. TLDR : Elden Ring DLC made all endings = Bad endings.
Ymir and Gideon both corroborate that the Two Fingers are no longer in contact with the Greater Will. We are fighting a holy war for a God that has turned it's back on us.
The revelation of Metyr being older than the Elden Beast really rocked my understanding of the Lore, and massively shaped my (wild) theories going forward. I believe Metyr carried the original Elden Ring, as it is depicted in the incantation symbol for the Two Finger Incantations. There's two compelling supporting pieces of meta evidence to this. 1) [two rings of fantasy-script one inside the other in a golden ring] is the form of the most well known magic artifact from any work of fantasy to date. The One Ring from Lord of the Rings 2) If you were to show someone who has never seen anything of elden ring the two finger symbol and the more knot-like intricate design of the current Elden Ring, defined by it's dividing lines and cross-like arcs. Which one would they take to be the source of the game's title? More in-universe it fits very well with my notion of the progress of Elden Lords as a concession on the part of the Greater Will, which clearly seeks control of some sort over the Lands Between. First it sent Metyr, to rule as god (I believe) alongside Placidusax, the Dragonlord. When the Nox rose up and wounded Metyr, the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast, to allow a mortal to ascend as the Elden Ring's Vessel. The Elden Ring is a collection of runes and we know it can change form over the ages. Perhaps the original Elden ring was even laid out over the lands, across the Divine towers perhaps. There's also the interesting detail that the discarded tablet on the Elden John/Dynast statues, which Tarnished Archelogist has discussed at length does also include a depiction of two concentric circles. I just know there's something interesting to be had here, and I do wish someone would take the core idea - That Metyr carried the original Elden Ring in the form of the Two Finger Incantation symbol - and go with it, just to see where that leads. And what else can be found down that path.
Great video and even better collaboration! I too like Garrulous Goldmask so this was a pleasure to watch. You guys are a beacon at how cool and tight this community can be.
was really excited for your Metyr video because she was the most interesting part of the DLC for me. big thanks to you and Garrulous Goldmask for this video!
The only thing I would worry about is replacing "Microcosm" with "blackhole," because you lose the "as above, so below" enchanted worldview. Idk, maybe God is dead, or the Greater Will is like the sleeping God, Azathoth, in the Lovecraftian cosmos
Smough I am super impressed with how you have improved as a content creator. The collaborations you’re bringing in to enhance the synthesis of ideas has really improved your presentation. Love your work
I've never played the other souls games, aside from watching the odd boss fight on TH-cam. Seeing Metyr for the first time was both awe and creepy at the same time.
58:30 its important to remember that the Count wants to take Metyr's place though. Thats his whole bag. He wants to be a finger mama. I mean, Metyr is obviously demented as per the other lore items. I think its still important to always look at npc dialogue, narrations, and even item description lore, in all the fromsoft games with a little bit of skepticism, based on who's doing the talking, narrating, or item describing and their goals in the universe. I love your videos and love your take on a lot of fromsoft lore. You da man. Thanks for what you do!
Perhaps SmoughTown will finally explain why there's a turtle that's a pastor / pope in this one... Edit : Nope. The deep lore goes unanswered. 50 Elden Ring videos and not a single one addressing the Turtle Pope in the room.
it’s just a fun nod to grrm. he likes turtles! and as one of the most important storytellers in the base game, it’s appropriate. there’s cut content about turtle meat helping virility, he marries the two most important leaders who were at war, and also teaches incantations.
Turtles are referred to as “wise beasts” in the different towers we find, so it makes sense that a giant, intelligent and speaking turtle would be respected. Still unsure where the religious part of it comes in, but at least it’s a church in the magic/intelligence region of TLB. But as mentioned turtle meat improves virility, so one engaging people into marriages may make sense
32:44 what if Metyr’s arena is physically below the Elden Beast’s arena, like the nightmare realms in Bloodborne? The tube-like structures dangling from the ceiling remind me of the luminous trees in EB’s place.
I was thinking that Metyr has the Elden beast like how Marika has her beast. The shadow bound beasts tend to reflect and contrast their Empyrean in some ways.
I used to try to puzzle out how the fingers related to the elden beast and there was a clear disconnect i couldn't explain. Metyr explains that so well
I just got my TH-cam gamer wrap-up. I'm in the top 0.2% viewers of your channel. 23x more watch time than average viewer. Needless to say, I enjoy your videos so much. You and ER changed my gaming life.
This was really well put together and I'm glad you took your time before covering Metyr and Yimir. They were probably the biggest highlight for me during my playthrough.
I have been trying for fucking months to get people to see the truth, and you have breached some of those topics, so I thank you. The One Great was a Great Single Golden Ring in the Void, from which exploded out all life throughout the cosmos. The resulting effects of the collapsing star seen throughout the universe as a "primeval current", identical to a neutron star collapsing into a black hole The One Great then goes from being a great Ring of gold, to a feeble bubble of light (This also gives us an explanation to the Bubble Oracles, and WHY they are looking at a bubble. It's their perspective of the Microcosm, the barely stable sphere of potential that will guide their path) (Interestingly, we see a similarity in the Godskin Nobles the Fat Inquisitors, and the Oracle Envoys. Almost like they are living jar-less Crucibles, but we will return to Living Crucibles eventually) It isn't hard to see the origin of why Gold manifests in the eyes, however, it is more fundamental than that Gold is in the very BLOOD of those Living in the Lands Between, causing it to never Rot and fester. It is in the Blood that Gold dwells. The gold of Grace, of Rune Power All things yearn to converge eternally because all life stems from gold seeded through out the universe. The Foundational Truth of Gold is that it seeks itself. (The evidence for Gold in the blood being important can be seen in the Man Eating Miranda Flowers, (why are they man Eaters? Cuz men have a high concentration of Gold.), as we see in the Bud Items that Glinstone, Blood and Ice are all viable sources of power (Residual life, Ancient Life, and absence of It) For Blood is also Heat, and Frost thus is the Absence of Heat, the Absence of Gold, the Absence of Life. When things go from Red to White, they do so due to being drained of Blood. The Fireflies also show us that Once again, Gold, Silver, and Glinstone are viable sources of power. We also see the Land Octopi REQUIRE men in order to reproduce (Once again, probably because of the Rune Energy needed to create new life) In ASoIaF, we find out that Bran is a Greenseer, which is supposedly very rare. *"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." "I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean." "In a sense."* I think in this same way, we can View Shamans and Empyreans as parallels to Skinchangers and Greenseers. The Shaman Village essentially being (much like areas in the North in GoT) Numen followers of old and ancient ways, sacrificing gold(blood) to the trees and calling stars for guidance, their warriors facing down mighty Beasts in the wild and claiming them as their own personal deities to channel further power from (which we learn from the Highland and Gloried sets, as well as Red Bear Pelt and Roar of Rugalea). The Hinterlands are definitely filled with OLD belief structures, of animism and old ritual. I think Marika was a "Chosen Enpyrean" of the Festival, and after she was gifted the collective runes of the festival, she was sent off to go on her journey to blow the Finger Whistles and "have her fate guided by the stars", so that she would eventually meet Metyr, and be Reaped for her Gold by Destined Death, so that Metyr could collect the Runes for the GW. It gets a little hazy here, as I feel like Marika could have been kidnapped/yoinked by the Hornsent to become a Jar Saint, but it's harder to line that up, for a few reasons. But, Somewhere along the way, however, I believe she met with Horah Loux, a champion of the Age of the Crucible, and fellow believer in the Old Ways. Her Status as Empyrean and his as a Hero would make them the perfect candidates to start a whole new age of Gold, why else has she been sent on this journey? It's not like she would know her pilgrimage would end in her death (I imagine Empyreans don't come back, so insert XYZ excuse people made foe why that could have been) Moving along, pretty confident the Horned Warriors based their outfits on Horah Loux, as the "unclothed warrior of old", who defeated and wore Serrosh, a la Hercules They saw his conquests and wished to emulate his power, adding horns to his legend in a manner of taking ownership to help propagandist their principles (There is also clear reference to the Old Hero of Demon's Souls) (Which also gives us a tangential link to the **Blind Swordsman** as well) The Shrine of Storms was also our first peek at a civilization that interred its dead in the very foundations. Metyr's literal Head which we use as a weapon has the Weapon Art referring to "Kowtowing" which is very specifically bowing in Surrender, and we know the Gloam Eyed Queen was Deafeated and her Powrrs taken away. Since Metyr is the literal daughter of God, I can imagine why the Desire to use your Bowed Head position to FLICK them away would be so desirable. The Weapons of the Godskins are huge to be the tools for which their clothes are made, yet they are claimed to be so. For someone of Metyr's size, this wouldn't be an issue. There's a shed Snake skin identical to the one in Church of Eigley within literal spitting distance of Manus Metyr, right in the Bonny Village, which the story of it and Shaman village is mirrored in dark and light between Jarburg and Dominula villages, where the Light Festive Village is tormented and skin alive while they perform rituals of Rune Collection, and the Jar Village has its Numen potentate defeated by poachers who want the knowledge/what resides in the jars, All this within the careful gazeof the Astologers in Manus Metyr, with Rabbath with his Magical Turret cannon defending the road leading from Bonny Village, in case the locals ever rebelled I actually think this is to reinforce the connection of Bonny Village /Manus Metyr (Because I believe the Astrologers got the the Hornsent to commit the atrocities on the Shaman, for experimentation and the resulting conversion to psuedo-night worship) This is to remind us of the Other Snake Skin, and what is there Much like how Shaman Village reminds us of Dominula, which also Has a Godskin Now why would they be reminding us of these things, unless there was an implicit connection that they were trying to make? I'm just gunna say it, do we know what a Jar Saint Looks like? No. But I bet I can guess, and it likely has a lot of aspects of the Crucible *Insert Picture of Godskin Nobles Here* Funny how aspects of the Serpent, that sign of the Abyss, of the Darknest Night, and of Death, is something that they share They are also covered in the flesh of those who have been drained of Blood. Why? Cuz Blood has Gold in it, and Gold are Runes. Runes are Stardust, and the GW wants all the Golden Stardust BACK You could also make the claim that the Skins they wear come from Jar People. Would explain the extra faces, but I instead consider it an aspect of those Ancients that they killed, the Giant Old Gods that none can remember anymore, but who we know could knock people up into the air with their great masses. Living Crucibles, or Vessels of Rune Power, come in many forms, and they all have similar roots And root is that the Universe was all 1 Ring of Gold, hanging in perfection in the Void, until it broke and scattered life as among the stars, which were all that remained of its once perfect being.
33:44 I wondered if the tubes in the Metyr boss fight are like Robert Penrose's conscious and quantum mechanics theory artistically represented. The mother of consciousness which is why light and black holes are part of the theme. IDK what makes the fingers move. 🤔
Love it! Smough, I have watched all of your Elden Ring videos, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this before but I love your voice! It’s very soothing and it has character’
Awesome video as always Geoff, it was so sick to bring Goldmask in the video, you two are probably my favorite loretubers out there. Well i have a question for you Geoff, if you don’t mind: If the Greater will is long gone, who banished the nox to the underground ? Marika, Metyr, the Fingers or perhaps the nox proved the Wrath of a God before this very God vanished, i would like to know your answer on this take. Anyway, have a great week my friend, i can’t wait for, rest well and don’t you dare go hollow.
My pleasure, was awesome having GG work with me on this video. So I did almost include this - but It could be that the Greater Will dissipated over time...or as GG suggests in his video on the Greater Will, the Nox being banished underground could have been done by Marika and her forces. He translates the Nox outfits from the kanji, and says it could be interpreted differently, as them being 'defeated' by the forces of the GW. Or I am just wrong of course haha. Have a great week and thanks of always for the support!
I read it on reddit but I really liked the concept, namely that the Greater Will was killed in some unseen greater reality ala Bloodborne. Everyone in the Land Between is just a creation of some eldritch monster in some 'other game' and everything going wrong is because someone killed it.
I’m starting to wonder if the “outer gods” are actually the gods of previous ages in the same way that Marika is the god of the current age; for example, the fell god of the giants being the same god of smithing talked about in the Shadow Lands. Everything we learn about in the base game is through the lens of the Golden Order and Marika’s desire to be known as the one true god, so of course they’re all “bad” like when Christianity turned the various polytheistic deities into demons.
16:44 Well, there is a line in the original Announcement Trailer describing the Elden Ring as "that which commanded the stars... giving life its fullest brilliance". The Elden Ring is a product of the Greater Will, so this is not exactly a surprise.
This video was absolutely awesome. For me, there’s no game like Elden Ring, where my view of the story can be redefined 1400 hours in. Maybe you’ve seen it, but a TH-camr called Dekuzek made a video - “How the Greater Will fell to Chaos” - that overlaps a lot with the final chapter of this video, and provides a lot of cool insights you might enjoy.
An interesting thing about the shamans is that in one of the paintings at the Vulcano Manor, theres a painting of a masked figure we do not know who is. He must be important as he is in a collection of paintings along side Rykard himself and Radahn. But whats iteresting about this figure is that upon the forehead of his mask is the same symbol that we see branded on the malformed shamans who crawl out of jars. Thats pretty interesting considering that the Vulcano Manor is against the Erdtree. Is the symbol just worn by this lord to mock Marika as if he somehow nows? Or is he a shamn himself and is fighting because he knows of Marikas improsonment and falling out with the Greater Will? And can this help explain the snake skin found near Bonny Village? The Vulcano Manor is obviously very connected to giant snakes, and so is Bonny Village, and so on Messmer. They seem to be very allied with Marika other than the Vulcano Manor, so perhaps that suggests that the Vulcano Manors heresy is one against the fingers and Greater Will itself, not Queen Marika. Either way it is interesting. Is this guy a surviving shaman? And if not, how does he know about them?
I’m so happy we have reached this conclusion about the greater will. It being a collective consciousness is exactly how I read it. I’m so thankful I got into spirituality and alchemy before this game came out haha.
1:00:04 i have a question, if the greater will is gone then what or who is responsible for banishing the nox underground? It is stated in the nox armour pieces that the greater will is the one responsible.
Great question! I have two possible answers: a) The Greater Will died after it banished the Nox underground. OR b) The "ire of the Greater Will" that the Nox invoked could be another way of saying an "act of God."
I’ve been waiting for this one for a while! Not even a week ago I was looking for a Smoughtown Metyr video and was surprised that there wasn’t one. THANK YOU!
Not too far in, but considering Metyr in regards to a "science" and things breaking down, I think of daughter product isotopes; when radioactive materials break down, they create daughter product.
What I love about Metyr's story (and Elden Ring in general) is the reinforcement that there is no infallible entity guiding all of the world and the people in it. Even those seen as gods are just that: SEEN as gods. But they are biased, flawed, and ultimately just a being in a position of power trying to shape the world as they see fit. There is no ultimate order, no ultimate authority. Just...people. Even the gods aren't exempt from that.
Here I didn't think there was much more lore for us to figure out, and then you two drop this video. Probably one of the best lore videos out there with the revelations you guys discovered/explained.
This is the perfect content to learn more about my favorite game, and then when I’ve learned all I can, it’s so comforting that it puts me right to sleep if I need it. Thanks Smough!
The Two Fingers and Three Fingers reflect parts of a triquetra-like cycle of life, death, and rebirth, but neither is whole. The Two Fingers focus on life and rebirth while denying death, creating a stagnant, incomplete system. The Three Fingers embrace the missing element of death but take it too far, plunging into chaos and madness. Rejecting both isn’t the solution either, as it would mean denying the cycle altogether - ignoring the need for life, death, and rebirth to work together. True balance requires accepting all parts of the triquetra, finding harmony between creation, destruction, and transformation. The balance, in this case, represents all 5 fingers together. Balance, and duality. This is based on the concept of Carl Jung's human psychology. The story is basically about confronting a traumatic event, accepting the consequences and restoring balance, which will result in individuality/wholeness/Spiritual Enlightenment. One has to accept and confront the traumatic event, in order to move forward. As above, so below. The Lands between represents the conscious, the Land of Shadows represents the unconscious, the Erdtree represents the Ego, and the Scadutree represents the shadow, where Radagon, the fallen angel (dragons are often portrayed as fallen angels, the more wings, the higher the status), represents the Animus and the Golden Order represents the Persona. The dying Erdtree, the shattering event on top of the tree stump, and the crucified Marika represents Ego-death. The Tarnished represent determination, and the maidens represent willpower. Invaders represent intrusive thoughts and emotions, and the blue NPCs locked away in an Evergaol are suppressed thoughts and emotions. Everything mentioned, up to this point, are Primordial archetypes. And, then you also have the Archetypes, all the demi-god children, which are part of the self. Examples of the archetypes are; the wounded warrior, the divine child, the hero, the rebel, the tyrant, the mother, the shadow, the wise old man, the wannabe hero, the outcast... Everything that we're aware of, happens in the Lands Between, and everything that we're not aware of, or are trying to forget/suppress, is located in the Land of Shadows. We access our unconscious 'realm' while we're dreaming, which can then make us aware of unaware conflicts. Messmer, represents the suppressed trauma. He's fighting for Marika's acknowledgement, and she tries her best to not acknowledge him in the end. What's happening in the Lands Between is that the trauma is becoming too much for Marika, and so, her mask (persona/Order) is slipping. And the stagnant rot is taking over. The concept of the Empyreans are basically the archetypes that can force a big change in the self's life, and we know from the wise old (wo)man (Melina), that we'll keep on resetting the world, until the self finally confronts Death itself (the traumatic event (the loss of a child)). "The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death." The one great, the creature, the demiurge... is the fake ignorant inner god, and the inner world created from chaos. Melina's goal is to guide us to the moment where the self lost its divine flame. The two fingers, also represent a cycle without the divine flame, a cycle without balance... without death. A stagnant cycle. The wise old woman, Melina, who guides us, is guiding us to the divine flame, that helps us bring balance back to the world. Restoring the balance between life, rebirth and death. The self simply craved a stagnant world, where it didn't have to deal with the traumatic events, a world without death. Later, in the DLC, the goalposts get moved... a world without death and... pain and suffering. The way the self processes emotions and feelings is considered a law/order. Marika has rewritten the law/order, to remove death, because the self didn't want to deal with it. Miquella tried to rewrite the order/law as well, by removing pain and suffering. The stagnant rot represents a temporary fix. But, you can't keep running away from your problems. After a while, the suppressed emotions & feelings will find their way back to the conscious realm. Miquella wants to help his sister, but... he realizes that he can't, because the real issue is that the self does not want to confront the traumatic event, and therefore more walls are being 'build' to protect the self. The self is simply pulling the wool in front of its own eyes. Ranni's ending, represents Nihilism, or also known as the outcast archetype. She wants to dissociate herself from the self. There simply isn't a good ending in this game, so the cycle will continue, until Marika finally confronts the real issue at hand. This is why the tree is as big as it is, and there have been trees before the Erdtree as well, just following different orders/laws. With each change, a new tree appears. Miyazaki is a Dungeon Master at heart. So a lot of elements that he uses in the world building are references to historical events, mythological stories or psychological concepts. I see it as 1 story being translated into many different languages, and we enjoy reading the story in our preferred language. No language is wrong. But the overarching concept, is human psychology. A few examples... Marika's ascension to godhood represents the concept of the whore of Babylon. The divine gate represents the tower of Babel. Marika's Order represents the fall of Babylon, and the rise of Rome. This is about steeping away from something you previously believed in. Farum Azula represents The Lighthouse of Alexander, also known as Pharos. This is the moment where the self lost its divine flame. And Melina will lead us, to Maliketh. The shadow represents the vault, where the self stores parts of itself that it doesn't like, is ashamed of, or doesn't want to deal with. At the end of the frenzied flame, Melina gets upset with us. The reason for this, the self hasn't confronted and accepted the traumatic event, and the self hasn't undergone individuation, wholeness or spiritual enlightenment. We've chosen to undo all the work that has been done before, which then results in resentment. Ranni was meant to marry Godwyn, but he basically got tricked, and fell in love with Fia/Fortissax, and Ranni killed 'm, all because of that blasted cursed ring! Ranni, when we put a ring on her finger, was already wearing one. This story mirrors that of Ring Des Nibelungen, where Godwyn represents Siegfried, Fia/Fortissax represents Gutrune and Ranni represents Brünnhilde. In the end, Brünnhilde sacrifices herself. This act ends the cycle of the Ring’s destructive power and restores the natural order. Hagen (Alberich's son), is the one that tricked Siegfried, and made him forget about Brünnhilde. Godwyn's story is also told through Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Gylfaginning, where Hermóðr (Miquella) is asked by his mother Frigg (Marika), to return Baldr (Godwyn) from hell. Rennala as Rindr, gets tricked by Odin (Radagon) and they have a child together, called Vali, who is created to avenge Baldr's death. In the end, this rescue attempt fails, because Loki, who indirectly kills Baldr, didn't cry. Frigg's maidens seem to be represented by the Black Knife Assassins. The tablet that Hermes Trismegistus was originally holding, was the Emerald Tablet. It's the tablet that represents spiritual transformation, the concept of rebirth & renewal, unity of opposites, and the creation of life. The second tablet, Marika's Order, is trying to 'overwrite' the original tablet. The idea is to recreate life, to fill the hole that's left behind by the traumatic event, which, of course, is also not the solution. In summary, the self is the fake ignorant inner god (demiurge, Lucifer, Phanes, creature), and we're playing in somebody's inner world (the tree of life - as above, so below). There are many games that tell this exact same story, but in a slightly different tone. I would recommend checking some of them out; Final Fantasy (7,8, 9 & 10), Stray, Zelda's Majora's Mask, Silent Hill, Persona (3R & 5R), Shin Megami Tensei (3 and 5), and Genshin Impact, ect. In all these games, the focus of the story is about achieving Individuality/Spiritual Enlightenment/Wholeness, by confronting a traumatic event/dark past. You can normally tell you're playing a human psychology game because there will always be a moment (most of the time it happens quite early in the game) where the main character 'awakens' from a sleep or a fall, and we end up going on Sophia's journey in the 'as above, so below' realm. "Don't blindly believe everything that's being told to you, seek knowledge, explore, and come to your own conclusions.
the idea of metyr and the elden beast being clashing divine aspects of the greater will is, like a lot of elden ring to me, evocative of neon genesis evangelion and the “war” between adam and lillith for control over the souls of the planet, either through adam’s angels or lillith’s lillin
Man, the entire Elden Ring era was just fantastic. The view that you're presented with upon arriving at The First Step for the very first time is one of the best memories I have playing video games.
One thing I've never thought of until now is the order of creation in Elden Ring. First you had the One Great, then you had the Greater Will. What makes will greater than mindless, indistinct chaos? Clearly it is greater, otherwise what is the Greater Will greater than aside from its predecessor, the One Great? Clearly will trumps chaos, making the Greater Will...well, greater. Having the capacity to form a vision and execute on it in a state where exactly and precisely no vision is possible, because vision necessitates disparity, and in the One Great there was an absence of it. The one spark that inspired a will to rise from indistinguishable cacophony...THAT'S what I want to know more about.
No one has mentioned it before (as far as I have seen), but the idea of the Crucible and the Fingers reminds me of a painting by Johfra Bosschart called, "Unio Mystica". It is a piece that unfolds to reveal other paintings within, but the painting on the display case shows four hands touching (with their fingertips) a sphere in the center. This sphere is a mass of shapes, animals, plants, dinosaurs, seashells, and people (like a Crucible). The interior paintings display a scene similar to Elden Ring's landscapes (especially underground). Bosschart's zodiac paintings also remind me of the Lands Between, replete with a giant lobster beneath a Liurnian moon. There are even disembodied hands in the corner of the painting. The Scorpio zodiac takes place in a landscape not unlike Caelid.
Wanted to add that his Aries painting depicts a man helmed and cloaked very much like Messmer. And it depicts a golden ram not unlike those near Bayle.
I like to think, mostly from Ymir's hat, that the Greater Will is the infinite expanse of nothing upon which matter and energy make the universe as we know it, and that all this talk of the Greater Will's machinations can be interpreted as a form of fate rather than an intelligent being's design; 'fate' split the One Great, 'fate' sent shooting stars towards the land carrying advanced life
Yo, I love where you are going with this already and I'm only 17 min in. Bro, you comments about Radagon reminded me of a video I saw by a new user named, "Elden Dork," where he makes an amazingly good case for Radagon being Velka, I $!ht you not. It's so amazing and combined with your boss video (with the illustrious Garrulous Goldmask) on the connection between the Greater Will and glintstone sorcery are making so many things finally make so much sense. The Souls community is the best community! =)
I'm picturing these giant old gods walking up to the massive towers and leaning in to hear what these tiny little people, who climbed all the way to the top just so their voices could be heard, have to say.
This is one of the most fascinating lore videos I've watched. So fascinating I can't write any new, illuminating thoughts I might have because I have to mull it over for a bit first. Thanks so much for this video!
I think you have the order somewhat off - you have the fingerslayer blade of the Nox used after the connection is broken off, but wouldn’t it make more sense to explain the disconnection with the fingerslaying? After all, it’s intended to harm servants of the Greater Will, not the Greater Will’s castoffs. So Metyr’s wound could easily have been made to sever her from the Greater Will.
Dear SmoughTown First: You are the best Souls game lore creator without question and I can say we are all very grateful for your work! ❤ It would be a pleasure to see this kind truly deep lore videos about Demon's Souls. ❤
That really is too kind my friend! I do my best and I love this game so much. I have been meaning to go back to Demon's Souls, has long been one of my fave games. I'll look into it!
No boss in From Soft history has instilled more awe and terror for me than first stepping into Metyrs boss room. Her design, her title, the arena and the music all combine with the lore implications of her existence in a way that made me shudder. After beating the DLC, there was no lore videos I was more excited to see than anything on than this touchy creature right here.
56:30 An interesting observation and theory about this: Metyr having two sets of two fingers and the three fingers bearing a thumb-like finger. The despair and affliction they speak of are probably an outcome of the fingers "receiving" intelligence and acknowledging their mother's abandonment by The Greater Will.
Another great, well made and edited thorough video. I like how you give credit too and cover all bases. Would you consider making another video about some smaller lore topics like you did once in the past where you spoke of the moon church ruins and a certain cave in Mt. Gelmir? I really liked that one and would love to see more ♥️
Thanks so much, really pleased you enjoy it! I am 100% considering it, coincidentally I have a new google doc noting any 'small stories' I come across in my current playthrough
Something that just clicked for me when I was watching this was, could the golems and the finger ruins be made of the same material/process? That description for Taylew, specifically calling him the "runt of the litter", plus the seeming mockery that "said to be... the first to stop moving" implies, caught my attention as it sounds really weird to be talking about artificially crafted golems like that. Like, if you make a bunch of robots of many varying sizes, which includes many small ones, you don't call one that is exactly the same as all the others "the runt of the litter". That phrase implies that him being small wasn't intentional when creating him, that he just happened to be the smallest one by some unknown factor. Not to mention that specific name, "litter", you don't make robots in "a litter", dogs, cats and animals have "litters". Could it be that, for whatever reason, the ancients that created the golems saw the Finger Ruins, saw how the massive stone fingers there naturally grew from the ground despite being made of stone, and tried to use that same effect when creating their golems? If the golems were "grown" somehow, some sort of "genetic mutation" could impact the growth process in a way that couldn't be corrected mid-process, leading to a "runt of the litter" like Taylew who's smaller than the rest. It would be fitting that the "child who died young from birth defects" would end up becoming the protective patron god of all of the forges his kind seemed made to work in. I don't know if they could use the exact same phenominal, like the golems are made from the exact same stone, guided and shaped during its growth like a bonsai tree, or if they just saw the phenominon, and tried to reverse-engineer it for their own benefit, but I feel like there's something more to that aspect of the lore. We may know who created the golems, but I don't recall if we've ever learned HOW they were made, only that they were. Even inside the forges they inhabit, you don't see any golems mid-production, only fully complete or broken ones.
In my head cannon, I believed that: - Metyr was getting messages from GW and sending them to two fingers by the holes at the boss arena. - I believed that Fingerslayer Blade is used at least once before and the victim was Metyr. - After Metyr is injured she cannot receive messages from GW anymore but still able to pass wisdom to Two Fingers. - Even after sealing of Shadow Realm, she cannot send messages to Two Fingers and that is what we are told "Two Finger's guidance is skewed". + I could say our pair of Two Fingers are go still because they think there is no other choice but communicating directly to GW (like Placidusax) and they 'forced' themselves to commune with GW. + and after that LOVELY video, although I didn't change a lot at my head connon, I am thinking that sealing of Shadow Realm seems very useful to Elden Beast. It might has a 'finger' in this event. Thanks for video.
I'm sure it's already been pointed out but you can't ignore the meaning behind Ymir's name. In Norse mythology, Odin made the world out of the remains of a giant named Ymir. It seems like something similar happened within the world of elden ring
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I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beast and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to humans selectively breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eyes are plucked dies while sometimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order so frenzied flame a more vilent harvester and goldenorder more symbiotic ... since kings rules for weqlth and power bu i doubt an alient powerful being would have motivatione of wealth and power but meybe they wanted somthing else from life it self .. the currency in lands between also related closely to life itself so maybe for those beings the poteial of life to work for them and to somehow sustain them might b these "outer gods " purpose i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
I have a theory that outer beings are harvesting somthing from tge life in Landa between forexaple we see the eternal beings that are beyond life and death in lands between the old ones and they pluck human eyes when they are ripen with flames just likes humans harvest crops and fruits when a plants flower ripens they pluck it out no matter how essital it is to the plant we see it as a means to an end then maybe similarly these beings pluck the aspects of life or even "slectiely " change the aspects to suit them like he elden beat and greater will changed th primodial aspects of the crucible and guided the evolution of life in a certain way similar to ow humans slectivelt breed cattle or crops some times the harvest removes somthing so essential that it results in death of the specimen like plants dies and like those whose eleys are plucked dies while someimes they live and its more of a symbiotic relationship like humans milking cows an feeding them to which might be more akin to the golden order o golden order has a less invasive relationship wit life in lands between than the frenzied flame "god" but they ultimaely are aliens harvesting somthing from the life like when people died the are burried at the foot of the erd tree which wws specifically changed from the bodies which were simply burnt by ghost flame before the order of the erd tree so greater will does want somthing here too its somehow related to the dead and their remains while the antient old ones harvest from the living , and w must think tat normally in human world kings take powers for the leasures and wealth they will get but welath and power inst necessarily somthing a god wqnts in eldenring ehich i think strictly speaking arnt gods but just harvestors so these out beings don necessarly want power or wealth from life of lands between but rather sustainace these outerbeinngs are symbiotically dependent on life and want diffrent things from it and hence they are in competition with each other over life i dk what the goldenorder wwnted tho w3 do know what frienzeied flame gf doee ane maybe becuase of the "invasion " of an other outergod _ (which I think are just aliens that are beyond life and death like the eternal dragons ) the greater will left this field for an other field or simply tried elsewhere after marika broke the eldenring that broke the connection between the influence of the being or beings called the greater will and hence left it open to be ripen and scavenged by other beings like the ones related to frenzied flame
The stone sheathed sword and the alters of light and dark. While I'm not entirely sure when it connects but they point to a very early age when light and dark ruled the world more then any of the gods of known history.
The irony of the whole story is that Ranni started the Lands Between on a path towards death and destruction, all so that she could be free from what she saw as the machinations of the Greater Will... and yet it's entirely possible that even that far back, the GW was already gone; meaning that all the tragedy and loss of the story from the Night of the Black Knives onward, was based on a lie; because if it really was just the Fingers responsible for all of this, Ranni could've just killed those in order to set herself free.
Another solid vid, and amazing collab with Goldmask, I love his vids too :)
This video, plus some others had me thinking: if metyr is the first rock to hit TLB, then maybe the Greater Will was at first INT based, and then eventually the Nox found a way to harm GW and thus GW abandoned Metryr and INT in exchange for pure faith and tried to have total control "embodiment of order". Maybe the shunning of the Nox was because they found out the GW wasn't all powerful and decided to kill it, but then GW stopped that with the Elden Beast and allowing Marika to take total control, chopping down any culture that didn't agree.
Miriel only survived being an exposition character by being a massive tortoise. His shell protected him from Myizaki's reaping blade that slays any character that dares give s direct answers about the plot.
Miriel: You cannot kill me.
Miyazaki: No, but I can scrap the ending where you become elden lord.
Miriel: Fair enough.
Kale: FAIR ENOUGH?
"You can just, like, mush stuff together" -turtle boy, basically
turtle elden lord woulf have been good
No, its because Miriel has 4 FEETS, and Miyazaki loves that. Plus he is a cool dog.
It was an absolute delight collaborating with you Smough!
Thank you so much brother, the pleasure was all mine. You elevated the script with your keen insights into matters I would completely miss. Thank you so much
@@SmoughTown If I may ask you in this theory here, what would the positions of the Outer Gods like the God of Rot, the Formless Mother, and Frenzied Flame now be?
Great contribution
@@xuanluu4873Lesser stars I think or at least further away stars
It was a great video made better by your great contributions. I appreciate you, Goldmask. Thank you.
Finally, the only thing that took me by storm when I came across it. Not Marika's past, not Radhahn's return, not even the Messmer backstory. Metyr was the single most ground breaking lore revelation in this dlc, giving me this sweet walk down memory lane, when I first saw the nightmares of Yharnam. There is always a bigger fish and I adore the fact they went that way and did not just say "Marika was evil for the sake of evil."
Glad im covering the subject you are most interested in - hope you like my take
Nah, nothing wrong with a villain who's just a villain.
So what do you guess is the bigger fish beyond the greater will and the frenzied flame?
@@DeathsjesterKMNP Yes, but we already have those. Dung Eater and Shabriri.
@@parameciazoan2040 Greater Will as it likely birthed the Frenzied Flame in the first place. But to call the Greater Will a 'fish' might be incorrect as its likely just the 'lake' itself.
I like to imagine the Tarnished just sitting on their throne and chilling only to hear a sound coming from Metyr's head, and when they put it next to their ear like a phone they hear "hey Matyr, it's me, the greater will, sorry for not calling, i got kinda busy with work, anyway, tell the giants to start building these-" while the Tarnished is just panicking because they killed the GW daughter.
that´s a hilarious thought
*Metyr* : It sure is lonely here... It's a good thing I can always receive calls from Dad!
*Nox with some creepy knife* : He'll have to leave a voice message.
Imagine showing this joke to a peasant in the Middle Ages.
Well The Greater Will abandoned Metyr even before that. The Eternal Cities look like they make up parts of Leyndell (kinda). As Leyndell looks cut in half.
@@nevagongoflawless6340 I feel like it would make no sense in terms of narrative to have the fingerslayer blade, and Metyr's wound, be separate from her loss of connection. It's her huge, visible wound; it makes her a broken receiver; it directly explains the 'blasphemy' that the blade committed and the blade itself. Further, the Nox were explicitly cast below by the Greater Will, so if Metyr was abandoned already, why would the GW show up? I see their banishing as a sort of proto-Shattering, where the Greater Will lashed out after Metyr's connection was severed, but from that point on the Greater Will could only be contacted via the slow, questionable, maybe even futile Two Fingers, while Metyr hid away and obsessed over the now-silent microcosm.
@@benklug9233 The fingerslayer blades creation was Heresy. And hence "Astel the Naturalborn of the Void" to destroy and steal it's sky. The remnants of that civilization sits under Leyndell. Astel has the Sky in his arena. Nokron & Nokstella have their skies. The nameless Eternal City under Leyndell doesn't.
Meaning following the logic -> Astel was sent before Radahn. (Sealed the Stars). (As after Radahn's defeat you free the stars.)
But the Black Knife Assassin's are correlated to Marika.
But they make clear
""A manifestation of the power with which Astel leveled the Eternal City.""
That Astel leveled the City.
For something to be considered Heresy and punishable. It must contradict a order.
Also it's definitely not unlikely. Liurnia used to be far bigger less swampy. But it's sinking. And has been for a long time.
The same logic here. The Eternal cities punishment was not outside the time of the Golden Order. (Because the Bkas were scions). This would fuel their purpose in assassinating and fulfilling their role in Godwyn's demise. (Due to the Treason of the blade.)
@@benklug9233 Oh but it does.
For something to be Heresy it has to contradict something established. By the words of the Fingerslayer blade. It was "High Treason."
Radhan sealed the Stars. So obviously before. But the BKas of the Nameless Eternal City, that were somehow related to Marika that also killed Godwyn the Golden of the Golden Order... making a blade in likeness to that of The Fingerslayer Blade. Just to spite the Golden Order despite their entire cities destruction. Fits the motif. While Ranni had her motivations, The Bkas had plenty of their own.
Especially considering Nokstella has a sky. Nokron has a sky. Leyndell's Eternal city does not.
Additionally it cannot be wielded by those without a fate. Such as Ranni's motivations. So unless someone of similar status hurt Metyr I highly doubt the fingerslayer blade was the culprit.
It was the craft of such a weapon which was Heresy. Hence the punishment. It was specifically made to hurt the fingers and its vassals anyhow. Or yk. The only reason the Golden Order was Established.
(Also) the greater will didn't show up. Metyr called the Astel's. Not the GW. Placcidusax is evidence that the GW left long before that of Metyr because he was the first "Elden Lord." And his god "fled". But he was the first Elden Lord. By the time the Golden order is beginning Metyr was just winging it. The GW left long before the Golden Order's establishment. I'd quote all the items that says this countless times.
So it turns out, Elden Ring is actually the long-awaited prequel to Bloodborne.
No relation to any other game as stated by FS themselves, stop the cope
@Bubloi did he really need the /s, friendo?
@@Bubloibro was not being serious……
@@Bubloi relax sweetheart
@@Bubloi chill out lil bro
"If the roots are rotten, then we have little recourse." I love this line so much. The implications, the delivery, it's just * chefs kiss *
Could you possibly elaborate?
@@loomingmoon4682 it’s a quote in the game, OP enjoys the voice acting.
A rotten root means a flower won't bloom, or at least bloom not healthily.
Elden Ring was bigger in scope and ideas than all of their previous games, so it makes sense that they'd take the "dying world" idea to the next level too
agreed - thanks for being here dude!
Love your channel Mauthe, excited to see what Funger 3 brings lore wise :)
I would like to see what the seat of the sun is, if it is anything beyond a reference to Dark Souls.
If Elden Ring gets a sequel of some kind. I'd really like Metyr to be one of the main antagonists
Since her boss fight doesn't end with the "Boss Defeated" message. She teleports away, implying she just ran in fear. Still around and able to manipulate people
A cool idea, I thought it would also be interesting to have her actually become a npc, like imagine finding her wherever she went off too, only to be extremely wounded and beg us for mercy and then give us just pure lore exposition.
It says legend felled after u beat the boss, but yeah it doesn't look like she necessarily died
Defeat doesn't necessarily mean "killed" in the first place but either way I love the thought of us not killing it.
Imo Elden Ring 2 will be a lot about snakes and godskins
Wish she was a being that went crazier as time went by after being abandoned (even more crazier than it is). DLC in the Land of Reeds would be cool too.
As if you still managed to sneak in a cheeky Albinauric Bloodclot reference. *shakes fingers*
HAHHAHH - I won't be stopped
Albunuric Bombaclot
It’s simple, I see new lore from smough, I click, I feast. Very simple.
I appreciate that - hope you enjoy this one
@@SmoughTownfeed us more father , we grow hungry once again.
Why am I actually eating food every time I put one of these on lol
Let the feast begin.
The pillars in metyrs room always looked to me like speaking tubes you would find on boats. She has a large concentration of them because she needs to relay information either as a parent or as a voice of the greater will to the rest of the lands between
I think it's also interesting that both the ceiling and the floor are water.
Could also be "IDK just make it look Eldritch, Mr. Artist"
@monsieurdorgat6864 one reason I think water exists in the arena of both the Elden Beast and Metyr is because space is sometimes referred as the "cosmic ocean." Their arenas are thematically fitting as such.
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt Almost as if their environments are from the perspective of the Tarnished, their mind trying to visualise their cosmic arenas as something they can understand: the ocean
@@DanielGarcia-rx3kt That does seem like a common theme they continued from Bloodborne! They might be implying (without going too far into it) that the cosmology is similar - with layers of mixed consciousness/firmament.
Though this is pretty out of the scope of the game. Fromsoftware is clearly going for "There's an insane, unimaginable cosmos out there and even attempting to grasp the greater mysteries of this cosmos will drive you insane!"
It's much more about what these great forces mean for the Lands Between, not so much about the forces themselves. Kinda like Smough said: the Greater Will might have abandoned the Lands Between or is dead. It's Marika's power and Marika's grace that we see. God is the power on earth, not in the cosmos above.
Also worth noting that they extend down from the ceiling of her boss arena, which itself is made of presumably water or some type of fluid, while the Elden Beast’s arena has a floor made of fluid with spectral tree trunks growing upwards.
A thought: Elden Ring's war against the Giants absolutely mirrors Greek Myth's Gigantomachy, the gods vs the Giants in both stories. Even down to Heracles / Horah Loux being a key figure who is credited with being a massive part of the war. And yeah I think Godfrey is Heracles/Hercules. Super strength, lion motif, their stories involve berserker rage, offense tied to wrestling, both are demigods. Lots of parallels between the two. And if that war was the Gigantomachy then we could theorize the massive remains, the ones that tower even over the giants, to possibly be the Titans.
The Rock as Godfrey confirmed
When I read through the descriptions and saw "microcosm" mentioned multiple times, the question came up of "microcosm of what", and the implications of that and what was shown in the fight and within the microcosm iconography had me utterly terrified IRL for about 30 minutes.
Think it's supposed to be a microcosm of the observable universe
The abyss instead of staring back gave you the finger.
You gained insight
@@aceundead4750 your comment definitely should be at the top, lol
Also, remember the Lands of Shadow were originally a part of the Lands Between until Marika removed it. A common theme in the DLC is the Shadow Lands pertaining to all things of Marika's past she wanted to hide away or saw unfit for the Golden Order. Interesting enough, the finger ruins only exist here and nowhere else in the game. Also, the wound on Metyr being caused by the finger slaying bladeis a common theiry I've seen and ties to a change in allegiance or usurping of power and Marika's betrayal. It would also open more speculation on why Astel, who aligns(thematically atleast) with Metyr attacked the eternal city.
I am the redditor who made the post you linked at 18:41. With the theory of the GW being dead. No, seriously, I’m that redditor. Interesting to see it made it to this video.
Since i have no reddit account, might as well congratulate you here: 10/10 theory, is part of my headcanon now
@ you can just google the title of the post and the name of the subreddit and find the whole post. User name is Marika’s t1ts. I made 2 posts on the subject, and the whole comments sections went crazy. The post is pretty clear though, and I’m glad so many people found it compelling.
Finding Metyr will always be my favorite Elden Ring Moment. Because me and my friend were playing at the same time and we were talking about the dlc then me and her both did the quest together and it was such an amazing experience.
The mystery behind the fingers the boss fights getting behind Messmer castle it was so much fun to experience that with them. It will forever be my most favorite Elden Ring experience. That's also why Metyr is my favorite boss in the game.
Agreed - it was a real magical and unexpected moment
When Ymir started lore dumping on me I was like "Yes, finally, tell me what the fuck is going on"
There’s paradoxical in a really captivating way about a lovecraftian alien that evolved in conditions completely and utterly removed from the human condition inexplicably taking the form of a malformed human hand.
Cosmic horror isn’t just the mere presence of something unfathomable and unknowable, it’s the inability of humanity to ever cease seeking to tame the infinite despite knowing fully the futility of their endeavours. Metyr strongly encourages that kind of thinking the same way Kos and her Orphan does; why do they look so much like us?
It does kinda make sense in a technically correct is the best kind of correct way
So we think one of the preconditions to advanced problem solving skills and tool use is the human hand it’s uniquely suited to tool use more so than any other life on earth and thus we are the most advanced in technology
For an alien species to reach earth irl they would need a similar or more advanced level of technology to us ergo its most likely they will have something similar to a human hand
Thus being a human hand technically fits a likely extraterrestrial organism
This explain a mystery that I didn't understand before: Why is there no Site-of-Graces within the Finger Ruins? Your proposal that Metyr and the Elden Beast are actually opposing forces explain that a lot, if you consider Site-of-Grace as an extension of Marika/EldenBeast branch of will.
I like how Metyr's big attack looks like a quasar (which are essentially the most destructive forces in nature ever irl)
So happy this videos out. Ymir became my favorite character instantly when I first meet him, and since that point back in June I couldn't wait for you to make a video about him and the fingers. Just so much reality changing lore items one after the other in Ymirs guest line.
Very interesting theory about Finger's incantation being heresy. Mindblowing to be honest. I'll definitely look at the game with new angle in further playtrough. I also agree about the nature of the stars. They being children of Greater Will. This means Ranni's ending is not really against the Greater Will.
Hovewer i don't think i'm sold on Greater Will being dead. Main reason is that i don't know what to do with old lore about Greater Will abandonment being result of shattering the Elden Ring. I don't think we should just write it off as a retcon and don't address it.
And finally if Fingers are trying to overthrow Marika to replace her order why then standard "no brain cells" ending is with us being another Marika's consort?
So yeah, i'm 50/50 with you on this one :)
I think whether the Greater Will is dead or whether it is ignoring the Two Fingers is meant to be sorta uncertain. After all, that is the nature of faith, and faith holds real power in these games.
As for the Fingers looking to replace Marika - I don't think the Fingers particularly care whether Marika is replaced or not. What matters is that their agent is in charge. When you become consort to Marika, she remains a lifeless husk that only holds the Elden Ring. You're the one really in charge - and you sit the throne alone.
I dont even understand where 'ranni is against gw' came from in the first. I don't think she really gaf about GW or knows it exists in the first place. Carian have a history to trying to hide a study of primoval current, and such the origin of universe.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i don’t agree with lifeless husk theory. First of all it’s a throne of Elden Lord in a first place. So us sitting there is nothing unusual.
Second - we repair the Erdtree, so why wouldn’t Marika be repaired?
Also those ER endings are “continue the cycle” endings without radical changes. Especially standard one. Thematically Marika being “dead” but order continues doesn’t fit as it’s something new entirely while it’s supposed to be “merely a cycle”.
Also while we repair Elden Ring we bow to Marika the same way we bow to Ranni. So it looks like a marriage proposal. This works better with living person.
I don’t see any evidence she is a husk so i’m not sure where this idea came from.
@@MKsukkiiMiso Ranni says outright that her goal is to destroy the GW and traverse the stars in search of these so called great gods in order to end their tyranny over the people once and for all. That's about as direct a confirmation as you can get in Elden Ring. She's pretty punk rock like that.
@@Zard1212 ....Because we literally saw her as a lifeless husk? After her body was broken with the shattering of the Elden Ring, left crumbling for aeons strung from her own rune arc, getting thoroughly trounced by the player, and finally being twisted and forged into a sword by the Elden Beast, there's not much left of her.
All that remains is an empty shell, not even conscious, yet cruelly unable to die. If she could be restored, then it goes against the entire story of the game, which is that godhood is a curse and the entire theocracy of holy divinity is rotten from the top down.
Even in the default ending, you can still see the crumbling ruin around you. It's very clear that becoming Elden Lord to Marika is simply perpetuating an increasingly decaying cycle with no divine guidance whatsoever. You are merely upholding an utterly broken system.
Something that think lore channels have overlooked when looking at Ymir is his name. The Norse giant who is the primordial ancestor of all giants and is used to create the heavens, mountains, oceans, realms, and trees, and the other races.
Names in Miyazaki games often carry great significant and characters in fiction that inspired them. I think that should be a starting point. The mean of their name and the possible inspiration.
I think it is not that the greater will is dead. If the outer gods can't truly die i dont think it's possible that the greater will can truly die. I also think it is literally the greater will of the fractures that lead to the creation of other gods. I Also think it is simply that the greater will abandoned the realm. Abandonment had to have come after the elden beast.
Next i think the seed the two fingers presented marika was the elden beast. After becoming a agod she became one with the elden beast birth the erdtree. That could explain why the erdtree and the elden beast are linked together and the elden ring is within Marika.
Slight correction: The remains of Ymir is used to create Midgardr, the world of mortals. The first two humans are later created from two tree trunks Odin and his brothers come upon while travelling through Midgardr. Also the translation of jotunn isn't "giant". The proper one would be something like "Devourer".
Don't forget, with insight comes madness. 💀
56:39 Elden beast: hey you old crone!
Metyr: what
Elden beast: look what I can do (gives her a thumbs up)
Metyr: 😮🤬
I always thought her head and neck are supposed to be a thumb
12:10 Reminds me of what C.S Lewis says about the duality of good and evil. He says that dualistic moral systems will always be subordinate to a third arbiter, something that draws the line on a pre-existing set of actions, creating good and evil.
The way this connects with Elden Ring is in how Order, whatever it looks like, seems to always arise from boundaries (or fractures) created inside of a pre-existing oneness.
man i don't think i'll ever tire of elden ring lore videos. so many rich and complex stories packaged into one game. so many things to reflect on with regards to my own life. thanks once again for the superb lore video, smough!
Me neither, I just love this world so much. So pleased you enjoyed and thanks for being here!
Try finge- wait what do you mean the greater will abandoned us long ago? Do not tell Gold Mask about this.
I think there's a strong implication he actually restores the connection with it. Compare the design of the Mending Rune of Perfect Order with the "microcosm" summoned by Metyr
@@soarel325I like this, but I also kinda thought he knew the golden will has been gone far longer than most tarnished seemed to think.
I'm partial to the theory that like in some religious scholars schools of thought, all those that search the truth end up learning of god no matter if theyve been in contact with the religion or not. Through seeking understanding of Grace Goldmask reverse engineered the intent of the greater will and learned the truth of absolute order
Gold Mask knows. That is why he made contact with Greater Will and wanted to remove small gods (like Marika) from equation as they were too liable to be ruled by passions.
Gold mask knows nothing imo. It's pure ignorance. While Gold mask points out the flaws of Golden Order Fundamentalism, and weeps about "when" it went wrong. Metyr expands the point that the Golden Order's entire conception was always wrong. Goldmask initially seemed to be a positive ending. Now seems far worse.
Either you can see it as the
1. Gw Died.
2. Gw abandoned TLB.
Goldmask ending. And to that end, Ranni's ending both are futile because TLB have been abandoned for a while. Everything that resulted was the Golden Order in it's conception.
TLDR : Elden Ring DLC made all endings = Bad endings.
Ahh perfect timing.
I think I’m going to have myself a nap. The only thing to do, really, after a nice Elden Ring lore video.
Ymir and Gideon both corroborate that the Two Fingers are no longer in contact with the Greater Will. We are fighting a holy war for a God that has turned it's back on us.
The revelation of Metyr being older than the Elden Beast really rocked my understanding of the Lore, and massively shaped my (wild) theories going forward.
I believe Metyr carried the original Elden Ring, as it is depicted in the incantation symbol for the Two Finger Incantations.
There's two compelling supporting pieces of meta evidence to this.
1) [two rings of fantasy-script one inside the other in a golden ring] is the form of the most well known magic artifact from any work of fantasy to date. The One Ring from Lord of the Rings
2) If you were to show someone who has never seen anything of elden ring the two finger symbol and the more knot-like intricate design of the current Elden Ring, defined by it's dividing lines and cross-like arcs. Which one would they take to be the source of the game's title?
More in-universe it fits very well with my notion of the progress of Elden Lords as a concession on the part of the Greater Will, which clearly seeks control of some sort over the Lands Between. First it sent Metyr, to rule as god (I believe) alongside Placidusax, the Dragonlord. When the Nox rose up and wounded Metyr, the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast, to allow a mortal to ascend as the Elden Ring's Vessel.
The Elden Ring is a collection of runes and we know it can change form over the ages. Perhaps the original Elden ring was even laid out over the lands, across the Divine towers perhaps.
There's also the interesting detail that the discarded tablet on the Elden John/Dynast statues, which Tarnished Archelogist has discussed at length does also include a depiction of two concentric circles.
I just know there's something interesting to be had here, and I do wish someone would take the core idea - That Metyr carried the original Elden Ring in the form of the Two Finger Incantation symbol - and go with it, just to see where that leads. And what else can be found down that path.
Great video and even better collaboration! I too like Garrulous Goldmask so this was a pleasure to watch. You guys are a beacon at how cool and tight this community can be.
Really appreciate that, it was awesome working with GG and I feel he elevated the video. Glad the response has been so positive!
I’m glad you brought up the fingerslayer blade, I feel like it has more impact on the lore than I imagined. Love the video!!
was really excited for your Metyr video because she was the most interesting part of the DLC for me. big thanks to you and Garrulous Goldmask for this video!
My pleasure! I am so pleased you enjoyed!
The only thing I would worry about is replacing "Microcosm" with "blackhole," because you lose the "as above, so below" enchanted worldview. Idk, maybe God is dead, or the Greater Will is like the sleeping God, Azathoth, in the Lovecraftian cosmos
The lands between us the Greater Will's dream
Smough I am super impressed with how you have improved as a content creator. The collaborations you’re bringing in to enhance the synthesis of ideas has really improved your presentation. Love your work
Really appreciate that - I really enjoyed working with GG who helped round out my ideas by giving a fresh and new perspective
@@SmoughTownkeep it up man. I feel like these videos really enhanced my enjoyment of some of my favorite games ever. Cheers
@@SmoughTownGG has a certain way of finding hidden details I hadn’t seen mentioned elsewhere, so him enhancing even your great videos is great
@@noamias4897 agreed - he has a talent for deciphering the meaning of the lore
Let’s goooooo, a new lore video from Smoughtown to listen to while I make deliveries over the road.
Thank you for making deliveries on time
I've never played the other souls games, aside from watching the odd boss fight on TH-cam. Seeing Metyr for the first time was both awe and creepy at the same time.
58:30 its important to remember that the Count wants to take Metyr's place though. Thats his whole bag. He wants to be a finger mama. I mean, Metyr is obviously demented as per the other lore items. I think its still important to always look at npc dialogue, narrations, and even item description lore, in all the fromsoft games with a little bit of skepticism, based on who's doing the talking, narrating, or item describing and their goals in the universe. I love your videos and love your take on a lot of fromsoft lore. You da man. Thanks for what you do!
Dialogues I can understand, but if we start doubting item descriptions we might as well stop discussing the objective lore and write our own fanfics
Perhaps SmoughTown will finally explain why there's a turtle that's a pastor / pope in this one...
Edit : Nope. The deep lore goes unanswered. 50 Elden Ring videos and not a single one addressing the Turtle Pope in the room.
it’s just a fun nod to grrm. he likes turtles! and as one of the most important storytellers in the base game, it’s appropriate.
there’s cut content about turtle meat helping virility, he marries the two most important leaders who were at war, and also teaches incantations.
Pope Turtle needs no explanation. He just Is.
One does not need to explain the Turtle Pope. Heresy is but a contrivance; all things can be conjoined. Even turtles and popes.
“Dog” pope!
Turtles are referred to as “wise beasts” in the different towers we find, so it makes sense that a giant, intelligent and speaking turtle would be respected. Still unsure where the religious part of it comes in, but at least it’s a church in the magic/intelligence region of TLB. But as mentioned turtle meat improves virility, so one engaging people into marriages may make sense
32:44 what if Metyr’s arena is physically below the Elden Beast’s arena, like the nightmare realms in Bloodborne? The tube-like structures dangling from the ceiling remind me of the luminous trees in EB’s place.
I was thinking the same thing. Not to mention the floor of Elden Beast’s arena being water, matching the ceiling of Metyr’s.
I was thinking that Metyr has the Elden beast like how Marika has her beast. The shadow bound beasts tend to reflect and contrast their Empyrean in some ways.
Never thought I’d see the day that the Albinauric Blood Clot would be challenged.
neither did I - its still on top though!
I used to try to puzzle out how the fingers related to the elden beast and there was a clear disconnect i couldn't explain.
Metyr explains that so well
It all comes together when you realize astel is the greater will
Everyone wants to know about Greater Will, but what about Greater Won't?
truth
Ah. So that’s the true name of the Frenzied Flame’s outer god.
I just got my TH-cam gamer wrap-up. I'm in the top 0.2% viewers of your channel. 23x more watch time than average viewer. Needless to say, I enjoy your videos so much. You and ER changed my gaming life.
This was really well put together and I'm glad you took your time before covering Metyr and Yimir. They were probably the biggest highlight for me during my playthrough.
Appreciate that and I am glad as well, feel it came out pretty well rounded. Ofc GG's insights really helped
So happy you blew up man, it’s so deserved. I remember watching your appearances on the snack covenant lol. Keep it up love the content as always
Really appreciate that my friend - I am genuinely so lucky. I will do!
I have been trying for fucking months to get people to see the truth, and you have breached some of those topics, so I thank you.
The One Great was a Great Single Golden Ring in the Void, from which exploded out all life throughout the cosmos. The resulting effects of the collapsing star seen throughout the universe as a "primeval current", identical to a neutron star collapsing into a black hole
The One Great then goes from being a great Ring of gold, to a feeble bubble of light
(This also gives us an explanation to the Bubble Oracles, and WHY they are looking at a bubble. It's their perspective of the Microcosm, the barely stable sphere of potential that will guide their path)
(Interestingly, we see a similarity in the Godskin Nobles the Fat Inquisitors, and the Oracle Envoys. Almost like they are living jar-less Crucibles, but we will return to Living Crucibles eventually)
It isn't hard to see the origin of why Gold manifests in the eyes, however, it is more fundamental than that
Gold is in the very BLOOD of those Living in the Lands Between, causing it to never Rot and fester. It is in the Blood that Gold dwells. The gold of Grace, of Rune Power
All things yearn to converge eternally because all life stems from gold seeded through out the universe. The Foundational Truth of Gold is that it seeks itself.
(The evidence for Gold in the blood being important can be seen in the Man Eating Miranda Flowers, (why are they man Eaters? Cuz men have a high concentration of Gold.), as we see in the Bud Items that Glinstone, Blood and Ice are all viable sources of power (Residual life, Ancient Life, and absence of It)
For Blood is also Heat, and Frost thus is the Absence of Heat, the Absence of Gold, the Absence of Life.
When things go from Red to White, they do so due to being drained of Blood.
The Fireflies also show us that Once again, Gold, Silver, and Glinstone are viable sources of power.
We also see the Land Octopi REQUIRE men in order to reproduce (Once again, probably because of the Rune Energy needed to create new life)
In ASoIaF, we find out that Bran is a Greenseer, which is supposedly very rare.
*"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer." "I thought the greenseers were the wizards of the children," Bran said. "The singers, I mean." "In a sense."*
I think in this same way, we can View Shamans and Empyreans as parallels to Skinchangers and Greenseers. The Shaman Village essentially being (much like areas in the North in GoT) Numen followers of old and ancient ways, sacrificing gold(blood) to the trees and calling stars for guidance, their warriors facing down mighty Beasts in the wild and claiming them as their own personal deities to channel further power from (which we learn from the Highland and Gloried sets, as well as Red Bear Pelt and Roar of Rugalea). The Hinterlands are definitely filled with OLD belief structures, of animism and old ritual.
I think Marika was a "Chosen Enpyrean" of the Festival, and after she was gifted the collective runes of the festival, she was sent off to go on her journey to blow the Finger Whistles and "have her fate guided by the stars", so that she would eventually meet Metyr, and be Reaped for her Gold by Destined Death, so that Metyr could collect the Runes for the GW.
It gets a little hazy here, as I feel like Marika could have been kidnapped/yoinked by the Hornsent to become a Jar Saint, but it's harder to line that up, for a few reasons.
But, Somewhere along the way, however, I believe she met with Horah Loux, a champion of the Age of the Crucible, and fellow believer in the Old Ways. Her Status as Empyrean and his as a Hero would make them the perfect candidates to start a whole new age of Gold, why else has she been sent on this journey? It's not like she would know her pilgrimage would end in her death (I imagine Empyreans don't come back, so insert XYZ excuse people made foe why that could have been)
Moving along, pretty confident the Horned Warriors based their outfits on Horah Loux, as the "unclothed warrior of old", who defeated and wore Serrosh, a la Hercules
They saw his conquests and wished to emulate his power, adding horns to his legend in a manner of taking ownership to help propagandist their principles
(There is also clear reference to the Old Hero of Demon's Souls)
(Which also gives us a tangential link to the **Blind Swordsman** as well)
The Shrine of Storms was also our first peek at a civilization that interred its dead in the very foundations.
Metyr's literal Head which we use as a weapon has the Weapon Art referring to "Kowtowing" which is very specifically bowing in Surrender, and we know the Gloam Eyed Queen was Deafeated and her Powrrs taken away. Since Metyr is the literal daughter of God, I can imagine why the Desire to use your Bowed Head position to FLICK them away would be so desirable.
The Weapons of the Godskins are huge to be the tools for which their clothes are made, yet they are claimed to be so. For someone of Metyr's size, this wouldn't be an issue.
There's a shed Snake skin identical to the one in Church of Eigley within literal spitting distance of Manus Metyr, right in the Bonny Village, which the story of it and Shaman village is mirrored in dark and light between Jarburg and Dominula villages, where the Light Festive Village is tormented and skin alive while they perform rituals of Rune Collection, and the Jar Village has its Numen potentate defeated by poachers who want the knowledge/what resides in the jars,
All this within the careful gazeof the Astologers in Manus Metyr, with Rabbath with his Magical Turret cannon defending the road leading from Bonny Village, in case the locals ever rebelled
I actually think this is to reinforce the connection of Bonny Village /Manus Metyr (Because I believe the Astrologers got the the Hornsent to commit the atrocities on the Shaman, for experimentation and the resulting conversion to psuedo-night worship)
This is to remind us of the Other Snake Skin, and what is there
Much like how Shaman Village reminds us of Dominula, which also Has a Godskin
Now why would they be reminding us of these things, unless there was an implicit connection that they were trying to make?
I'm just gunna say it, do we know what a Jar Saint Looks like?
No.
But I bet I can guess, and it likely has a lot of aspects of the Crucible
*Insert Picture of Godskin Nobles Here*
Funny how aspects of the Serpent, that sign of the Abyss, of the Darknest Night, and of Death, is something that they share
They are also covered in the flesh of those who have been drained of Blood. Why? Cuz Blood has Gold in it, and Gold are Runes. Runes are Stardust, and the GW wants all the Golden Stardust BACK
You could also make the claim that the Skins they wear come from Jar People. Would explain the extra faces, but I instead consider it an aspect of those Ancients that they killed, the Giant Old Gods that none can remember anymore, but who we know could knock people up into the air with their great masses.
Living Crucibles, or Vessels of Rune Power, come in many forms, and they all have similar roots
And root is that the Universe was all 1 Ring of Gold, hanging in perfection in the Void, until it broke and scattered life as among the stars, which were all that remained of its once perfect being.
33:44 I wondered if the tubes in the Metyr boss fight are like Robert Penrose's conscious and quantum mechanics theory artistically represented. The mother of consciousness which is why light and black holes are part of the theme. IDK what makes the fingers move. 🤔
Love it! Smough, I have watched all of your Elden Ring videos, and I don’t know if you’ve heard this before but I love your voice! It’s very soothing and it has character’
Thank you so much, that's really kind. So happy you have enjoyed the videos and my voice!
Awesome video as always Geoff, it was so sick to bring Goldmask in the video, you two are probably my favorite loretubers out there. Well i have a question for you Geoff, if you don’t mind: If the Greater will is long gone, who banished the nox to the underground ? Marika, Metyr, the Fingers or perhaps the nox proved the Wrath of a God before this very God vanished, i would like to know your answer on this take.
Anyway, have a great week my friend, i can’t wait for, rest well and don’t you dare go hollow.
My pleasure, was awesome having GG work with me on this video.
So I did almost include this - but It could be that the Greater Will dissipated over time...or as GG suggests in his video on the Greater Will, the Nox being banished underground could have been done by Marika and her forces. He translates the Nox outfits from the kanji, and says it could be interpreted differently, as them being 'defeated' by the forces of the GW.
Or I am just wrong of course haha.
Have a great week and thanks of always for the support!
Vaati with the textual lore, Tarnished Archeologist with the historical lore, HawkShaw with the philosophical lore, and Smough with the meta lore.
I read it on reddit but I really liked the concept, namely that the Greater Will was killed in some unseen greater reality ala Bloodborne. Everyone in the Land Between is just a creation of some eldritch monster in some 'other game' and everything going wrong is because someone killed it.
Ah, the Lore Master has blessed us with a new video!
Edit: the Lore Master gave me a heart! I feel really lucky today!
Ah, linking the Crucible/Spiral, Greater Will, and the Primeval Current together as one, eh?
All things can be conjoined, indeed. I approve.
I’m starting to wonder if the “outer gods” are actually the gods of previous ages in the same way that Marika is the god of the current age; for example, the fell god of the giants being the same god of smithing talked about in the Shadow Lands. Everything we learn about in the base game is through the lens of the Golden Order and Marika’s desire to be known as the one true god, so of course they’re all “bad” like when Christianity turned the various polytheistic deities into demons.
Finally! A worthy video! My meal will be legendary!
What are eating?
@@siberyuswithengard7364 Boiled Crab
@TheMuslimMan1337 very healthy! Enjoy your meal and have a wonderful day!!
@@siberyuswithengard7364Exalted Flesh.
Why is Tai Lungs line from King fu panda popping up everywhere
16:44 Well, there is a line in the original Announcement Trailer describing the Elden Ring as "that which commanded the stars... giving life its fullest brilliance". The Elden Ring is a product of the Greater Will, so this is not exactly a surprise.
This video was absolutely awesome. For me, there’s no game like Elden Ring, where my view of the story can be redefined 1400 hours in.
Maybe you’ve seen it, but a TH-camr called Dekuzek made a video - “How the Greater Will fell to Chaos” - that overlaps a lot with the final chapter of this video, and provides a lot of cool insights you might enjoy.
An interesting thing about the shamans is that in one of the paintings at the Vulcano Manor, theres a painting of a masked figure we do not know who is. He must be important as he is in a collection of paintings along side Rykard himself and Radahn. But whats iteresting about this figure is that upon the forehead of his mask is the same symbol that we see branded on the malformed shamans who crawl out of jars. Thats pretty interesting considering that the Vulcano Manor is against the Erdtree. Is the symbol just worn by this lord to mock Marika as if he somehow nows? Or is he a shamn himself and is fighting because he knows of Marikas improsonment and falling out with the Greater Will?
And can this help explain the snake skin found near Bonny Village? The Vulcano Manor is obviously very connected to giant snakes, and so is Bonny Village, and so on Messmer. They seem to be very allied with Marika other than the Vulcano Manor, so perhaps that suggests that the Vulcano Manors heresy is one against the fingers and Greater Will itself, not Queen Marika.
Either way it is interesting. Is this guy a surviving shaman? And if not, how does he know about them?
I’m so happy we have reached this conclusion about the greater will. It being a collective consciousness is exactly how I read it. I’m so thankful I got into spirituality and alchemy before this game came out haha.
1:00:04 i have a question, if the greater will is gone then what or who is responsible for banishing the nox underground? It is stated in the nox armour pieces that the greater will is the one responsible.
I was wondering about this too! Great question
Great question! I have two possible answers:
a) The Greater Will died after it banished the Nox underground.
OR b) The "ire of the Greater Will" that the Nox invoked could be another way of saying an "act of God."
The Nox feared the Greater Will and fled underground on their own. Technically speaking, no one forced them to.
Woo! 200 episodes! Congratulations 💖
Thanks so much! Pretty surreal!
I’ve been waiting for this one for a while! Not even a week ago I was looking for a Smoughtown Metyr video and was surprised that there wasn’t one. THANK YOU!
Thanks so much for being here and sorry for the wait, hope you enjoy!
No need to apologize sir. You always deliver, and do it with superb content! Just keep up the good work at your own pace and don’t burn out please!
Not too far in, but considering Metyr in regards to a "science" and things breaking down, I think of daughter product isotopes; when radioactive materials break down, they create daughter product.
What I love about Metyr's story (and Elden Ring in general) is the reinforcement that there is no infallible entity guiding all of the world and the people in it. Even those seen as gods are just that: SEEN as gods. But they are biased, flawed, and ultimately just a being in a position of power trying to shape the world as they see fit.
There is no ultimate order, no ultimate authority. Just...people. Even the gods aren't exempt from that.
The greater will been real quiet since this dropped....
I'll see myself out
Here I didn't think there was much more lore for us to figure out, and then you two drop this video. Probably one of the best lore videos out there with the revelations you guys discovered/explained.
Little known lore fact: Metyr knows over 1,000 jokes, but they all start with "pull my finger."
This is the perfect content to learn more about my favorite game, and then when I’ve learned all I can, it’s so comforting that it puts me right to sleep if I need it. Thanks Smough!
My pleasure! Thanks for being here
The Two Fingers and Three Fingers reflect parts of a triquetra-like cycle of life, death, and rebirth, but neither is whole. The Two Fingers focus on life and rebirth while denying death, creating a stagnant, incomplete system. The Three Fingers embrace the missing element of death but take it too far, plunging into chaos and madness. Rejecting both isn’t the solution either, as it would mean denying the cycle altogether - ignoring the need for life, death, and rebirth to work together. True balance requires accepting all parts of the triquetra, finding harmony between creation, destruction, and transformation. The balance, in this case, represents all 5 fingers together. Balance, and duality.
This is based on the concept of Carl Jung's human psychology. The story is basically about confronting a traumatic event, accepting the consequences and restoring balance, which will result in individuality/wholeness/Spiritual Enlightenment. One has to accept and confront the traumatic event, in order to move forward.
As above, so below. The Lands between represents the conscious, the Land of Shadows represents the unconscious, the Erdtree represents the Ego, and the Scadutree represents the shadow, where Radagon, the fallen angel (dragons are often portrayed as fallen angels, the more wings, the higher the status), represents the Animus and the Golden Order represents the Persona. The dying Erdtree, the shattering event on top of the tree stump, and the crucified Marika represents Ego-death. The Tarnished represent determination, and the maidens represent willpower. Invaders represent intrusive thoughts and emotions, and the blue NPCs locked away in an Evergaol are suppressed thoughts and emotions. Everything mentioned, up to this point, are Primordial archetypes. And, then you also have the Archetypes, all the demi-god children, which are part of the self. Examples of the archetypes are; the wounded warrior, the divine child, the hero, the rebel, the tyrant, the mother, the shadow, the wise old man, the wannabe hero, the outcast...
Everything that we're aware of, happens in the Lands Between, and everything that we're not aware of, or are trying to forget/suppress, is located in the Land of Shadows. We access our unconscious 'realm' while we're dreaming, which can then make us aware of unaware conflicts. Messmer, represents the suppressed trauma. He's fighting for Marika's acknowledgement, and she tries her best to not acknowledge him in the end. What's happening in the Lands Between is that the trauma is becoming too much for Marika, and so, her mask (persona/Order) is slipping. And the stagnant rot is taking over.
The concept of the Empyreans are basically the archetypes that can force a big change in the self's life, and we know from the wise old (wo)man (Melina), that we'll keep on resetting the world, until the self finally confronts Death itself (the traumatic event (the loss of a child)). "The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death." The one great, the creature, the demiurge... is the fake ignorant inner god, and the inner world created from chaos. Melina's goal is to guide us to the moment where the self lost its divine flame.
The two fingers, also represent a cycle without the divine flame, a cycle without balance... without death. A stagnant cycle. The wise old woman, Melina, who guides us, is guiding us to the divine flame, that helps us bring balance back to the world. Restoring the balance between life, rebirth and death. The self simply craved a stagnant world, where it didn't have to deal with the traumatic events, a world without death. Later, in the DLC, the goalposts get moved... a world without death and... pain and suffering. The way the self processes emotions and feelings is considered a law/order.
Marika has rewritten the law/order, to remove death, because the self didn't want to deal with it. Miquella tried to rewrite the order/law as well, by removing pain and suffering. The stagnant rot represents a temporary fix. But, you can't keep running away from your problems. After a while, the suppressed emotions & feelings will find their way back to the conscious realm. Miquella wants to help his sister, but... he realizes that he can't, because the real issue is that the self does not want to confront the traumatic event, and therefore more walls are being 'build' to protect the self. The self is simply pulling the wool in front of its own eyes.
Ranni's ending, represents Nihilism, or also known as the outcast archetype. She wants to dissociate herself from the self. There simply isn't a good ending in this game, so the cycle will continue, until Marika finally confronts the real issue at hand. This is why the tree is as big as it is, and there have been trees before the Erdtree as well, just following different orders/laws. With each change, a new tree appears.
Miyazaki is a Dungeon Master at heart. So a lot of elements that he uses in the world building are references to historical events, mythological stories or psychological concepts. I see it as 1 story being translated into many different languages, and we enjoy reading the story in our preferred language. No language is wrong. But the overarching concept, is human psychology.
A few examples... Marika's ascension to godhood represents the concept of the whore of Babylon. The divine gate represents the tower of Babel. Marika's Order represents the fall of Babylon, and the rise of Rome. This is about steeping away from something you previously believed in.
Farum Azula represents The Lighthouse of Alexander, also known as Pharos. This is the moment where the self lost its divine flame. And Melina will lead us, to Maliketh. The shadow represents the vault, where the self stores parts of itself that it doesn't like, is ashamed of, or doesn't want to deal with. At the end of the frenzied flame, Melina gets upset with us. The reason for this, the self hasn't confronted and accepted the traumatic event, and the self hasn't undergone individuation, wholeness or spiritual enlightenment. We've chosen to undo all the work that has been done before, which then results in resentment.
Ranni was meant to marry Godwyn, but he basically got tricked, and fell in love with Fia/Fortissax, and Ranni killed 'm, all because of that blasted cursed ring! Ranni, when we put a ring on her finger, was already wearing one. This story mirrors that of Ring Des Nibelungen, where Godwyn represents Siegfried, Fia/Fortissax represents Gutrune and Ranni represents Brünnhilde. In the end, Brünnhilde sacrifices herself. This act ends the cycle of the Ring’s destructive power and restores the natural order. Hagen (Alberich's son), is the one that tricked Siegfried, and made him forget about Brünnhilde.
Godwyn's story is also told through Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda, Gylfaginning, where Hermóðr (Miquella) is asked by his mother Frigg (Marika), to return Baldr (Godwyn) from hell. Rennala as Rindr, gets tricked by Odin (Radagon) and they have a child together, called Vali, who is created to avenge Baldr's death. In the end, this rescue attempt fails, because Loki, who indirectly kills Baldr, didn't cry. Frigg's maidens seem to be represented by the Black Knife Assassins.
The tablet that Hermes Trismegistus was originally holding, was the Emerald Tablet. It's the tablet that represents spiritual transformation, the concept of rebirth & renewal, unity of opposites, and the creation of life. The second tablet, Marika's Order, is trying to 'overwrite' the original tablet. The idea is to recreate life, to fill the hole that's left behind by the traumatic event, which, of course, is also not the solution.
In summary, the self is the fake ignorant inner god (demiurge, Lucifer, Phanes, creature), and we're playing in somebody's inner world (the tree of life - as above, so below).
There are many games that tell this exact same story, but in a slightly different tone. I would recommend checking some of them out; Final Fantasy (7,8, 9 & 10), Stray, Zelda's Majora's Mask, Silent Hill, Persona (3R & 5R), Shin Megami Tensei (3 and 5), and Genshin Impact, ect. In all these games, the focus of the story is about achieving Individuality/Spiritual Enlightenment/Wholeness, by confronting a traumatic event/dark past.
You can normally tell you're playing a human psychology game because there will always be a moment (most of the time it happens quite early in the game) where the main character 'awakens' from a sleep or a fall, and we end up going on Sophia's journey in the 'as above, so below' realm. "Don't blindly believe everything that's being told to you, seek knowledge, explore, and come to your own conclusions.
the idea of metyr and the elden beast being clashing divine aspects of the greater will is, like a lot of elden ring to me, evocative of neon genesis evangelion and the “war” between adam and lillith for control over the souls of the planet, either through adam’s angels or lillith’s lillin
and then the war between NERV and SEELE being all the shithaps that goes down in the shattering
RIP Albinauric Bloodclot (2022-2024)
Gone but not forgotten 😔
still king dw
*Miyazaki watching this video and taking notes*
"This stuff is great. It's better than what we came up with!"
The Old Gods and the Dragons must have intersected at some point, because what else would you be shooting those massive arrows at?
Man, the entire Elden Ring era was just fantastic. The view that you're presented with upon arriving at The First Step for the very first time is one of the best memories I have playing video games.
One thing I've never thought of until now is the order of creation in Elden Ring.
First you had the One Great, then you had the Greater Will. What makes will greater than mindless, indistinct chaos? Clearly it is greater, otherwise what is the Greater Will greater than aside from its predecessor, the One Great?
Clearly will trumps chaos, making the Greater Will...well, greater. Having the capacity to form a vision and execute on it in a state where exactly and precisely no vision is possible, because vision necessitates disparity, and in the One Great there was an absence of it. The one spark that inspired a will to rise from indistinguishable cacophony...THAT'S what I want to know more about.
No one has mentioned it before (as far as I have seen), but the idea of the Crucible and the Fingers reminds me of a painting by Johfra Bosschart called, "Unio Mystica". It is a piece that unfolds to reveal other paintings within, but the painting on the display case shows four hands touching (with their fingertips) a sphere in the center. This sphere is a mass of shapes, animals, plants, dinosaurs, seashells, and people (like a Crucible). The interior paintings display a scene similar to Elden Ring's landscapes (especially underground). Bosschart's zodiac paintings also remind me of the Lands Between, replete with a giant lobster beneath a Liurnian moon. There are even disembodied hands in the corner of the painting. The Scorpio zodiac takes place in a landscape not unlike Caelid.
Wanted to add that his Aries painting depicts a man helmed and cloaked very much like Messmer. And it depicts a golden ram not unlike those near Bayle.
I like to think, mostly from Ymir's hat, that the Greater Will is the infinite expanse of nothing upon which matter and energy make the universe as we know it, and that all this talk of the Greater Will's machinations can be interpreted as a form of fate rather than an intelligent being's design; 'fate' split the One Great, 'fate' sent shooting stars towards the land carrying advanced life
Yo, I love where you are going with this already and I'm only 17 min in.
Bro, you comments about Radagon reminded me of a video I saw by a new user named, "Elden Dork," where he makes an amazingly good case for Radagon being Velka, I $!ht you not. It's so amazing and combined with your boss video (with the illustrious Garrulous Goldmask) on the connection between the Greater Will and glintstone sorcery are making so many things finally make so much sense.
The Souls community is the best community! =)
I love the Nietzsche/Lovecraftian aspect that "God is Dead"... it gives all hope away. I love it!
Another amazing video!
So so many great insights.
Just another way to enjoy playing the game with another perspective
I'm picturing these giant old gods walking up to the massive towers and leaning in to hear what these tiny little people, who climbed all the way to the top just so their voices could be heard, have to say.
I didn't expect someone else to think this exact thing.
This is one of the most fascinating lore videos I've watched. So fascinating I can't write any new, illuminating thoughts I might have because I have to mull it over for a bit first. Thanks so much for this video!
That's such high praise! Thank you so much, really pleased that you enjoyed!
I think you have the order somewhat off - you have the fingerslayer blade of the Nox used after the connection is broken off, but wouldn’t it make more sense to explain the disconnection with the fingerslaying? After all, it’s intended to harm servants of the Greater Will, not the Greater Will’s castoffs. So Metyr’s wound could easily have been made to sever her from the Greater Will.
Btw the microcosm sound effect in metrys boss fight is a recording of a black hole , quite literally is a black hole
Dear SmoughTown
First: You are the best Souls game lore creator without question and I can say we are all very grateful for your work! ❤
It would be a pleasure to see this kind truly deep lore videos about Demon's Souls. ❤
That really is too kind my friend! I do my best and I love this game so much.
I have been meaning to go back to Demon's Souls, has long been one of my fave games. I'll look into it!
@@SmoughTown Thank you so much for your professional work! I will waiting for your new videos! 🥂
No boss in From Soft history has instilled more awe and terror for me than first stepping into Metyrs boss room. Her design, her title, the arena and the music all combine with the lore implications of her existence in a way that made me shudder. After beating the DLC, there was no lore videos I was more excited to see than anything on than this touchy creature right here.
post-hospital shift breakfast AND a smoughtown lore video?!?
my day off is gonna be great!!!
Awesome! Enjoy your day off and the content!
56:30 An interesting observation and theory about this: Metyr having two sets of two fingers and the three fingers bearing a thumb-like finger. The despair and affliction they speak of are probably an outcome of the fingers "receiving" intelligence and acknowledging their mother's abandonment by The Greater Will.
Another great, well made and edited thorough video. I like how you give credit too and cover all bases.
Would you consider making another video about some smaller lore topics like you did once in the past where you spoke of the moon church ruins and a certain cave in Mt. Gelmir? I really liked that one and would love to see more ♥️
Thanks so much, really pleased you enjoy it! I am 100% considering it, coincidentally I have a new google doc noting any 'small stories' I come across in my current playthrough
This was great! The DLC certainly confused me on a lot of lore, and I'm glad you've made these videos to clear a lot of that up!
Would love to see an updated timeline video next 🙏
Something that just clicked for me when I was watching this was, could the golems and the finger ruins be made of the same material/process?
That description for Taylew, specifically calling him the "runt of the litter", plus the seeming mockery that "said to be... the first to stop moving" implies, caught my attention as it sounds really weird to be talking about artificially crafted golems like that. Like, if you make a bunch of robots of many varying sizes, which includes many small ones, you don't call one that is exactly the same as all the others "the runt of the litter". That phrase implies that him being small wasn't intentional when creating him, that he just happened to be the smallest one by some unknown factor. Not to mention that specific name, "litter", you don't make robots in "a litter", dogs, cats and animals have "litters".
Could it be that, for whatever reason, the ancients that created the golems saw the Finger Ruins, saw how the massive stone fingers there naturally grew from the ground despite being made of stone, and tried to use that same effect when creating their golems? If the golems were "grown" somehow, some sort of "genetic mutation" could impact the growth process in a way that couldn't be corrected mid-process, leading to a "runt of the litter" like Taylew who's smaller than the rest. It would be fitting that the "child who died young from birth defects" would end up becoming the protective patron god of all of the forges his kind seemed made to work in.
I don't know if they could use the exact same phenominal, like the golems are made from the exact same stone, guided and shaped during its growth like a bonsai tree, or if they just saw the phenominon, and tried to reverse-engineer it for their own benefit, but I feel like there's something more to that aspect of the lore. We may know who created the golems, but I don't recall if we've ever learned HOW they were made, only that they were. Even inside the forges they inhabit, you don't see any golems mid-production, only fully complete or broken ones.
In my head cannon, I believed that:
- Metyr was getting messages from GW and sending them to two fingers by the holes at the boss arena.
- I believed that Fingerslayer Blade is used at least once before and the victim was Metyr.
- After Metyr is injured she cannot receive messages from GW anymore but still able to pass wisdom to Two Fingers.
- Even after sealing of Shadow Realm, she cannot send messages to Two Fingers and that is what we are told "Two Finger's guidance is skewed".
+ I could say our pair of Two Fingers are go still because they think there is no other choice but communicating directly to GW (like Placidusax) and they 'forced' themselves to commune with GW.
+ and after that LOVELY video, although I didn't change a lot at my head connon, I am thinking that sealing of Shadow Realm seems very useful to Elden Beast. It might has a 'finger' in this event.
Thanks for video.
Yet another banger from you Smough. This man never misses, every video is quality
Thanks so much my friend, appreciate your support and kind words
Perfect timing, I have to finish my essay about software having this next to me is nice motivation
Awesome, I really hope you enjoy this one
Bro let's gooooo more long form lore
More to come for sure!
I'm sure it's already been pointed out but you can't ignore the meaning behind Ymir's name. In Norse mythology, Odin made the world out of the remains of a giant named Ymir. It seems like something similar happened within the world of elden ring
good synopsis as usual...but...that 1st shot, of the grace in the roundtable, not being centered bothered me to no end LOL
Hahah, im sorry!
Thus spoke Zarathustra seems to have been a major influence on the game