Luthier Tips du Jour Mailbag 79 - Laminating Sides
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2018
- Luthier and Instructor, Robert O'Brien, shows how to laminate guitar sides using the Roarockit thin air press kit.
www.obrienguitars.com
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Thanks for the Roarockit info and all the hints and techniques. This was very interesting.
Great to know this. Thank you for passing on your experience and knowledge.
I always come for the comedy and get the bonus of great craftsmanship and skills - great job Rob.
Robert you always make it look easy !! I learned the hard way there is some school of hard knocks with vacuum bags - for example I wish I would have thought about glue squeeze out before making a total mess. Ditto using epoxy - I had multiple squeeze-through spots (right through pores etc) w titebond that would not take finish correctly and were unfixable - and also permanent unsandable bumps and bubbles from exposing the veneers to all that moisture. What works great gluing veneer to a chunk of flat MDF for furniture does not work so well for bent laminations. Live and learn!
Morning coffee with Robert....Tips du Jour: the go-to learning source for all things luthiery (mon mot du jour...jajaja). Always a pleasure..thank you!!
Thanks for watching. Glad you are enjoying my videos - and your coffee! Happy Building!
Thanks robbie very timely , was going to do a 3 part laminate tonight , but would like to try the vacuum bag ystem . I have a vakkum clamp elec/ air system , but using a bag with it all day or night would be a PITA , thank you very much for posting !!!
Querido Robye, después de algún tiempo enfermo, te escribo estas cuantas lineas, como siempre para agradecerte tus fenomenales videos, y este es tan necesario y hasta un poco cómico (por el inflador) , pero que resultado más que bueno.
Mi cariño y bendiciones para ti querido amigo...
muchas gracias e abrazos desde Colorado.
Robert, quiero decirte que aprendí a reparar guitarras gracias a tus vídeos, muy bien explicados y en el punto, de hecho ya estoy fabricando mi primera guitarra, después te envío fotos y vídeos..
Pero en realidad este último vídeo aunque, no me parece complicado, si me parece bastante un proceso bastante largo, lo pensaré dos veces antes de laminar algo.. by the way Robert LMI has a very good customer service..
Big hugs from El Carmen de Bolívar Colombia.. tienes que venir un día!!!
I am glad to hear that you are finding my videos useful. Thanks for watching. I would love to visit your country one day. Hopefully I will have the opportunity one day. abrazos desde Colorado.
Love how the vacuum bag design re-uses the hand pump and rubber stopper originally sold for removing air from open wine bottles(!)
Bought one a year ago to do drop top on electrics, works perfect. I do start the are relief bend on a Hot pipe ,just because. I still use titebond for this application. I always have t88 on hand for exotic wood gluing . Nice vid.
Pro trick : watch movies at Flixzone. I've been using them for watching all kinds of movies during the lockdown.
@Bishop Cullen yup, I have been using Flixzone for since november myself =)
@Bishop Cullen Yea, I have been using flixzone for since november myself :)
Robert, thanks for your videos they are very useful, can you please give more details of the glue you use? brand? or where can we get it?
Great video Robert thank you very much for posting this. I will be laminating from sides on a future guitar. Possibly two identical guitars, or as identical as I can make them, one with laminated sides and one without.
did you built them, the difference in sound/energy must be realy noticable right?
Nice thank you
So much for Torres' paper mache guitar. Sides does matter!
Robert, thanks for the videos. Love them. How do you get the 0.5mm thicknessed so thin?
You can purchase veneers at that thickness.
Muy agradecido.
Hey Robbie, if I use my miles card will my epoxy go farther? Thanks for the great lesson!
Hey Robbie! Are you still using the Roarocket exclusively, or do you sometimes use a vacuum pump on some projects?
It depends on the project. A double top for example I generally use a pump but for laminating sides the roarocket works fine.
Great video, Robbie ! Do you think this vacuum pump would also work with the LMII bridge glueing device???
I do not see why it wouldn't work.
You think it would glue a bridge to a top in that bag?? Is that what his question meant or using just the pump with some lmi bridge fixture for a vaccum press
I think he was referring to just the pump. That is what I understood the question to be.
I was meaning just the pump, guys. The hand pump attached to the lmii bridge device instead of an electrical powered pump.
@@OBrienGuitars I do. The electric vacuum pump will compensate, automatically, for small leakage that may occur along the seals of the LMI vacuum bridge fixture. So, you could just check every so often with the manual pump to determine if you need to increase the vacuum. There are at least two other ways to affix a bridge to the guitar without vacuum and without heavy, dangerous clamps. I may divulge later if I can secure a patent first.
The hand pump system is expensive! A vacuum pump can be found for £50 here in the UK. Add a bag and a few odds and ends and it works out about the same.
Hi Robert, is the brand of epoxy you use for laminating your sides "Z-poxy finishing resin", available from LMI? The bottles look familiar. Cheers
No, I used system 3 epoxy to laminate the sides.
Hello, my gibson acoustic has a 3/16" corner laminate strip that is delaminating. It is >20" long and maybe 7-8" of it are delaminating. I'd like to glue it correctly before it cracks. Recommendations for glue for this? I was simply going to use blue masking tape to support it while drying.
I would probably just use yellow glue but hard to say without seeing a pic of the area in question.
which one will last long? An all solid guitar? or a Solid top with a layered/laminated side and back?
I don't think it matters.
Ultra-kat powder glue water mix, made for veneer,
hello. do you mean that laminated back and sides are better than solid once?
Not necessarily. I have heard a lot of bad sounding laminated guitars in my life and vice versa.
OBrienGuitars how are plywood acoustic guitars made? Plywood guitar called laminated but how do they get the plywood so thin. Because when I think of plywood think like Lowes home depot plywood but on guitars its thin how do they get it so thin ? Can you do a video about plywood acoustic guitars how they make the wood?
Just make thin plywood with the veneer you want to be on the outside. For example: mahogany, rosewood etc.
If you are using 1.5 mm sides, why its needed to be laminated??
A normal side is in the neighborhood of 2mm or more so plenty of room to laminate sides. Some folks think this could offer a tonal advantage by having laminated sides.
One simple question please: why are laminated sides and back guitars cheaper than all-wood guitars, when it takes so much more work to build, than simply cutting a piece of wood?
Good question but I don't have an answer. There are also some very high end guitars out there that have laminated sides.
@@OBrienGuitars thank you very much!
WHY??? TONAL. If you've never laminated sides and made them 4-4+mm's, I suggest you try doing it. At the same time, make the back a bit thicker. Your back thickness can be anywhere between 3.0-3.5mm's. Heavier rosewoods like Cocobolo can be thinner, say 2.5-3.0mm's. Your guitar WILL be heavier, but you might NEVER EVER go back to single sides. Your guitar will have a more focused sound, more sustain and more projection, more volume. If this appeals to you as a player and listener, then I suggest you try making a guitar with double sides and a slightly thicker back. On the other side of the coin, single sided guitars can sound amazing!!! In the end, as long as the quality of sound is there, you end up creating different flavored guitars, just like different flavored high quality ice cream. I personally build classical guitars with single sides AND double sides. I like them both. But the heavier double sided guitars have more power, more volume and more projection. The soundboard works way more efficiently. Good luck. Well done, Robbie.
Thanks for the suggestion. Australian luthier Trevor Gore has written a couple of books on modal tuning and explains the difference between mass and stiffness. You might find it interesting when it comes to this subject.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 You should have been so critical of O’Brien….. who provided zero answer to the question at hand (i.e. like, get a skateboard bag dude, and vacuum a veneer onto a regular side; whalla, dude…. you’ve got a laminate guitar). Weak… digressing into some farce display of vacuum technology (and how NOT to do laminate sides on a side mold). Do the research yourself erudite avenger, laminates make up the many of the best made guitars of yesterday and today. This primer or tutorial, from an otherwise esteemed luthier, was embarrassing.