How to Build a Acoustic Guitar. Episode 8 (Laminating the Sides)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2021
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In this video, Chris demonstrates his technique for laminating the sides of the 3,000 year old guitar.
For more info on Chris and his guitars, go to:
www.DriftwoodGuitars.com - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
This episode on sides was a real eye opening/ mind blowing revelation on what a myth all solid wood instruments are all about. Bravo!
It's more double sides like a double top. Laminate usually has many little pieces, strips, or shards glued together. These double sides as well as traditional solid ones are vastly superior to regular laminate in my opinion. He wasn't skimping out at all.
@@sansomcaleb laminate is laminated not chipboard. This is basicly laminated wood.
I don't even build guitars, I am just looking the videos to relax. Amazing production quality. Woodworking seems like a lot of fun, but even as just being a guitar player and not having any talent in craftsmanship, I can really appreciate your work and experience
The more I watch your videos, the more I want to build an acoustic! Soon...
Great information as always Matt and Chris! Thanks again for bringing us along with you.
Boys, you are greater with every new video. Congratulations!
Great video! A true craftsman seeks to improve his craft, thanks for sharing.
It's always a pleasure watching and listening to a true craftsman as he creates, it's obvious you spent a great deal of time in designing and building forms and templates as well as tools that make the instrument repeatable as close as possible. Keep up the great work as well as the teaching. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much for your videos!! This is such a fantastic video. Science. I love it.
This has been a great series fellas, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Ohh my god... Just found this channel a couple of weeks ago, and I am sure You'll become huge... Pure super high quality content and knowledge here!!
I’ve been watching this series since I’ve discovered this channel a few days ago and have really enjoyed seeing this process unfold. I’m looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Chris, you and Matt are really killing it in this series. I’m living all this. I’ll probably never build a guitar, just not my thing, but watching you guys do it, just does it for me. This series has been great, and I’m totally enjoying the pace of it. It’s not a video everyday, but there aren’t huge gaps between videos. Enjoy the holiday, and keep the great work up, between the actual work and the editing, I just can’t think of a better way to do what you guys do. Thanks.
Amazing videos guys. Much love from new Mexico hope all is well.
Love this video series!
I so want to try that on my next build and I need one of those vacuum pump/bags in my life! Not sure what else I’ll ever use it for but it’s so cool :)
So much great information. Thank you for documenting this, it very helpful for us aspiring builders. My new favorite channel!
Aw man! Thanks for saying that.
Great video…I’ve never heard of laminating the sides, but the physics behind it make senses..
When I first looked at your website for your guitars I thought they were overpriced but looking at all the extra stuff you do that most builders don’t pay attention to I understand and they are worth every penny
You have no idea. I make guitars 100% from scratch. Takes 2 months. People offer me $1500. Wtf, $1500 for 300 hours of skill and craft? $7500-10 is a comfortable price for a single lutheir to live decently. Especially if you make one a month like me, massive over head too.
@@ewartrob 1500 is about the price of a low end American made fender oof
@@eddyr4984 made in a factory by machines.
@@ewartrob that was my point, but yeah I definitely respect any maker who makes an incredible instrument by hand
@@eddyr4984 philosophically, nothing has value. You understand what goes into his guitars, so you can accept that value. Try doing that when you can pick up a perfectly good guitar for $500. It's hard to get people motivated to spend $7500 when $2500 Gibson's do good enough. I find now it's about relationships, people buy from me because they know what goes into it.
And here I thought I would have to wait a whole week for this episode. Christmas came early. This whole series is amazing.
Glad you’re enjoying the series!
Your videos are marvelous. The commentary and craftsmanship are great. I love the way you have made jigs for all the laminations. Your guitars are world class. Thanks for sharing! KANSAS
Thanks so much for watching!
Excellent presentation, and eye opener. Me Try. Hulk
The Larson Brothers had the opposite idea about building under tension, they wanted it on their tops. I agree with you on the issue of the sides, though, I think they do better when they are rigid. Well done again, these videos are great.
Awesome video!
Too bad I'll never be able to afford your guitars. Beautiful craftsmanship and I've been watching this series the whole way through, learning so much and you know I think this kind of what I want to do for a living.
Thanks!
Great video
Super helpful hints on vacuum bag. Never considered using the drop plastic and butyl tape but that alone is a nugget, thanks!
Glad you got something from it
Part 9! You’re killing me. Kidding. I love the series and I’ve never built a guitar. I want to but let’s be real about my skill level. I would have to start over at least 100 times and still end up with something way worse than the cheapest mass produced guitar. I am SO impressed. I kinda want to be you!
Oh come on, you could de ok on your first one!
You echoed what I’ve heard many other builders/designers state about sides needing to be stiff to enhance the soundboard. I was hesitant at first to buy a classical with laminated black&white ebony sides due to them not being a solid piece but now better understand why they make the top sing so well.
Please do a video on the outside mold. Looks great❤️
Definitely do a sound test review of this one when it's finished! Your guitars sound great and I'm seriously curious about that 3,000-year-old spruce!
I wish people knew how difficult what you do to build a guitar is. Seems sort of easy till you actually try to make a guitar that doesn’t sound like a W-almart guitar. True craftsmanship and a joy to watch.
The parking tape really made my life easier, hate applying it but it holds up to about 10 sides before having to be replacement and the release is great
Point one: I bet the wife knows where to get aluminum foil in the kitchen she knows exactly where to get some. Point 2: I have never had anything make more sense to me than the idea of the laminate sides. Leave the energy in the top instead of transferring it into the sides. This is the best guitar-building series I have ever watched.
Now I know why my Takamine made in Japan with laminate sides with solid top and back sound so good
Chris, can you demonstrate how you sharpen the StewMac scrapper? I have one after trying with card scrapes, cabinet scrapes, bbq scrapes (not scraps). Next time you sharpen it, just tell Matt to get "behind the camera where he belongs" - uh direct quote :) Thanks gents for the variety of content and the depth of discussion!
I bought some rosewood from lmi to do this exact same thing a year ago but have been putting it off, because I wasn’t sure if it would be beneficial. Now I’m sold
Amazing video series. Do you ever talk about the process you went through to learn your craft? Did you have a master luthier to work with before you set off on your own?
This has made me look at acoustics with laminate sides in a very different way. Maybe I was being a bit of a snob about it but that was a very interesting explanation about the conservation of energy. Stiff laminated sides wont suck up the energy from a spruce top when the guitar is being played. Great video 👍
I think its worth remembering that this isn't how most laminate sides are constructed. Often "laminate" means plastic which is inferior.
Fascinating! I’ve never seen another luthier/guitar maker take this approach with their sides, but it makes so much sense. You also put more thought into increasing your guitar’s strength while freeing up as much vibration potential as possible in the sound board. It’s a balancing act, for sure. Really great stuff.
literally hundreds of luthiers do this. In fact, 19th century maker Renee Lacote did this to not just sides, but backs as well
@@raytristaniOK, I guess those 100s of luthiers don’t have YT Channels, because as I said, I’ve never seen it….🤘🤓
@@bldallas search for Roarockit luthier kit, Robbie O’Brien, John Bogdanovich, Beau Hannam, Behrad NG, Richards Guitars, Spencer Acoustics, Randy Schartiger, Nelson Guitars, to name a few. All of them with TH-cam channels 😉
@@raytristani Move on Ramon. I made a simple comment that I hadn’t seen that before; and by that, I mean two tone woods, laminated together with epoxy, to create stiffen sides. You’re being know-it-all-guy.
@@bldallas wow. You totally misunderstood the intent. I was just giving you more info and context since you seemed interested in the concept. My apologies! Conversation seems to be such an antiquated concept these days… sigh!
you guys should sell them crisp, new, shirts as merch. freaking love carhartt. haha.
Great idea!
Ramirez laminated the sides on their iconic guitars.
For a release agent you can use paste wax or wax paper.
Hi Chris, I'm learning so much from your videos, and even making changes on the way i build my guitars.
I love this concept you have come up with on the double laminated sides and I was thinking of using a double layer carbon fiber sheet lay up on the inside of my wooden sides in place of a wooden layer so it will be just over 1mm thick but strong.....what are your thoughts on that?
Love this process, I have a vacuum pump for bridge clamp and love it. Question tho…. Why not just cut a piece of poly to cover the mold so the sides will not stick to it?
Chris do you ever do shows like woodstock/artisan? Great video!
I'd like to know your reasoning for laminating rosewood with ebony for the sides. What kind of acoustic qualities does that create?
This a is very interesting video! What are the differences between laminated sides and structured sides?
Your vacuum bag can be anything as long as your breather is right.
BOEING - Multimatic AMT-S guy approves
grt video guyz
So what I'm wondering is why you use such a beautiful piece of indian rosewood on the inside, unless it would become visible when you add a bevel. The process is really cool to see and it should definitely give more support to the top. Does this mean you can make your top tinner because of this construction?
Silicon Thickener...nice trick.
I'm truly enjoying watching you build these guitars and listening to your opinion on the ones you cut in half. this process you're doing looks very much as we do in aviation on composite panels and moldings. Vacuum bagging after a layup. you used the term "Leading Edge, when you were putting the two-sided tape on the opening of the bag, were you in aviation at some point in your life? just wondering.
I was actually a Structural Maintenance Tech for 8 years in the Air Force. I did Sheet metal for 6 years, and Composites for 2. Good ear.
Very cool, have you ever tried Weldwood powdered wood glue for laminations? I have used it for furniture making for bent wood pieces, it has a very long open time.
I haven’t heard of it, but I’ll check it out for sure.
Tonally is there any difference between laminating or not laminating the sides?
Apart from making the sides stiffer, what are the benefits of laminating against not laminating?
Or are the sides just there to attach the back and top too, and all the tone or most of the tone comes from the resonance from the top?
Also, this is a brilliant series of tutorials, I found this channel through watching the spraying guitar body on Stew Mac channel.
Keep Up The Good Work Chaps 🎸
Love these episodes 👌🏻 I also love the song at 19:48! Anyone knows what it is? Shazam has no clue.
I am really enjoying the build, only thing I would caution is your mix ratio on the epoxy. When you say 2:1 that usually means by volume not weight. You would be correct if both part A and part B weight the same i.e 1oz by volume weights 300g of part A and 1oz by volume weights 300g of part B. Then the manner in which you mix would be correct. The epoxy manufacturer should have a product data sheet with weight mixing ratios. Probably not an issue at first but from what I can tell you take a lot of pride in your work and an improper mix might not stand the test of time, especially as the wood expands and contracts being that the laminates are different species of wood. Love the channel keep doing what your doing!
I appreciate you pointing that out. It hadn’t occurred to me that by volume and by weight were two different things haha. Duh. I’ll be sure to do it correctly from here out. Thanks for pointing that out.
Great video, as usual, Chris. I've been building with laminated sides for about 12 years now, and you're right, this is a total game changer. I thickness the outer (show) side to 2.5 mm, and the inner one about 1.8 mm. Using a silicone heat blanket in my shop-made bender, I actually bend both the outer and inner sides together, with the heat blanket on the outside of the sandwich; and invariably, both the inner and outer sides conform exactly.
I use Gorilla glue for the lamination process for several reasons: It's far less toxic than epoxy; it has gap-filling properties; you have about fifteen minutes of open working time, which is plenty if you have your ducks lined up at the start. I would never use Gorilla for a load-bearing joint, but for laminating sides, it works really well. I've had great success with this, so I'm sticking to it.
You do have to be sure to put that release tape on your molds, because the Gorilla glue WILL extrude through porous woods and glue your sides to the mold. I learned that the hard way. Also, wear a pair of nitrile gloves, because Gorilla will stain your hands brown.
Now you've got me wanting to go with a vacuum system instead of using clamps and cauls. I love your videos, and I binge-watch them, because you always have a really well thought out perspective, and a wealth of craft wisdom, and you never fail to show me new ways to spend a lot of money on more tools! AND monogrammed Carhart shirts! Plus one on the style points, Bro!
I love all of this! Thanks for taking the time to contribute. Matt lives for affection for the Carharts.
Is the best angle on a scrapper 90 degrees , or something else? Thanks for all the info.
With your laminated sides being thicker, do you use a thinner kerfing?
These videos make me super excited to build guitars. One question, how do you procure your radius dishes?
Stew mac in the states, Lee Valley in Canada for big name producers. There are a bunch of small guys making tools and jigs. Google is your best friend.
@@ewartrob I've looked up some how to's but any information gained, especially from someone with experience is valuable.
@@Apillicus rob@tillerguitars.ca if you want any information on building guitars hit me up.
Hey Chris, I'm planning on building a uke this year. Is there any reason why laminating the sides and back wouldn't help? I know there would be added weight and ukes are pretty light.
I have to wonder if one of the laminates was a lattice versus a complete solid piece. If on the inside would only be for the effect you're going for. But If it was able to be done on the outside. Could be a interesting visual addition. Just a thought.
does woodturning a wood cylinder with a specific radius then taking a slice of it for the neck work?
I've been daydreaming about using bent and laminated kerfing to get extra strength and rigidity with lighter weight but never thought of doing that to the whole sides.
I was sure you were heading for a joke here. Maybe something about a sore back…
Can you recommend a vacuum pump other than from LMI. That pump is nearly $400. Can one from Harbour Freight work just as well which is less than $150?
I understand the reason for laminating for strength, but now I wonder, does it matter what wood you use to laminate with? Or do the sonic proprieties of the tonewood still come through despite the seemingly unyielding rigidity? Otherwise I figure you could make the sides out of a cheap but really rigid material and just veneer the outside. I’m no luthier, just curious!
Hi Chris, how many CFM is your vacuum pump? Thanks, M
Question: Have you experimented with carbon fiber as a side laminate? The ratio of weight X strength X stability would seem superior to any wood laminate. As to acoustics?
Where is the link for vacuum? I need to purchase one but i only want to buy it once!
Have you considered using 3m 90 contact adhesive instead of epoxy and vacuum?
I know a lot of builders will add bracing to their sides (Goodall for example, which are known for being very resonant). Have you played with side bracing in the past, and if so, have you noticed a better tonal quality since laminating your sides? It's an interesting concept, and I appreciate your ingenuity :)
I braced the sides off all of my guitars prior to doing this, and the difference is night and day.
Hi! First of all excuse my English, I'm from Spain and don't talk a lot of English (but I can understand it perfectly hahaha)
I'm building my first ukulele and it have laminated sides (Indian rosewood and black limba) and everything goes perfect but it looks a little bit weird to me if I'm going to look through the sound hole and see the limba and not rosewood, so I'm thinking about adding a third side of rosewood, but I don't know how that it's going to affect the sound or of it's going to add too much weight to the ukulele. What do you think about it? (The sides are actually around 3.7 mm thick). Thanks a lot!
hey chris how thick are the laminate veneers
Hmmmm. Makes me wonder what would happen if you also cross grained the sides. You would lose some rigidity on the bends but would the overall structure be more rigid? 🤔-IanL.
Supplier links? How to find them, the are not at the bottom?
I'm curious as to why the vacuum technique isn't used more with fretboard glue ups.. also, would epoxy be a viable candidate for a fretboard glue joint? Why is titebond better or worse for the job? Seems to me a vac job with epoxy would almost be a better method for fretboard glue ups. Opinions?
My opinion - In short epoxy+vacuum simply isn't needed for a fretboard. It would work but appears to be more "work" to do. Titebond type glues work fine with no mixing and simple clamps or elastic works just find for fretboards. There's not the same tension in a fretboard glue up as there is in an acoustic like he's doing.
I am planning on using your laminated side technique for my next guitar build. I just had a question. What is the reasoning for using Rosewood on the Inside. I know it bends well but it seams like kind of a waste. I was thinking of using Maple or something less expensive that I can get locally and resaw myself.
You can use anything youd like for the interior wood, but LMI sells rosewood sides already thicknesses for laminate sides for like $30. It’s a no brainer in my books.
Could/would/should/have you ever made a guitar where the sides are one whole piece?
Have you watched ken parkers archtoppery series?
Could you use fish glue?It also has a long drying time and may require less cleanup.......................................
What is your approximate final thickness of your sides? Around 4mill? Your theory on the stiffness of the sides helping the top resonate more makes a ton of sense to me.
Correct, they’re about 4-4.5mm thick combined.
So in doing what you just did would say that guitars with laminated sides and backs might have better sound than a solid wood guitar. If so why are laminated woods in guitars are frowned upon. I do stringed instrument repairs and I’m getting ready to build my first guitar. I’m going to start with either walnut or mahogany and I was told by other luthiers that I could sand the areas where the bends are as thin as I could to make it easier to bend. What are your thoughts on this?
Don’t confuse laminate sides made of two solid pieces of wood, with plywood. That’s what is usually found in cheaper guitars, and is terrible as a tonewood. Manufacturers will call plywood, laminate, but that’s just marketing.
Could you make the website a link in the description below? 😆
I will, but for now it’s www.DriftwoodGuitars.com
On drums the layers alternate direction-- the grain being set 90 degrees from the next layer.. Why on guitars do they all run in the same direction?
I’m curious why epoxy verses using hide glue? Thanks
Hide glue has a working time of mere minutes, epoxy has hours.
maybe use mold release wax on the mold, it will prevent sticking...
Have you thought of trying a few layers of carbon fibre on the interior (replacing the inner wood) or a single layer of carbon fibre in between the woods? If you think the laminated wood is stiff, even a single layer in between will be even stiffer, and best of all, carbon fibre has no inherent bend of its own, so it will 100% conform to your mold with no spring..
I was wondering the exact same thing.
Question for u. Unrelated to this vid. But, in other vids, you mentioned that your finish thickness was "3.5 mils". Are you referring to 3.5 mm? As in about 1/8"? That seems super thick. I just got done with mine and the finish measured at 0.25mm. 1/4 of a mm. Pretty much all my finishes register under 1.0mm. what am I missing here? I've seen factory guitars measuring 3mm and the sealer coat is crazy thick
No, a mil is a unit of measure for finishes. It’s actually .0035”
@@DriftwoodGuitars oh ok! I thought I was misunderstanding. That makes much more sense.
I'll have to check again when I get home. Mine was either .023 or 0.23. can't remember. .0035 is crazy thin!
I was measuring in mm for mine. Idk what it is in inches off the top of my head.
There is one issue that arises in the longterm when some elements of a guitar's construction are particularly rigid due to lamination while other elements have more plasticity. Anyone with experience repairing guitars will have encountered a guitar with laminated sides and a solid top that has the top disconnected and misaligned with the sides (often in the waist area). This occurs because, over time, laminated sides do not expand and contract in response to environmental factors at the same rate as the top (due to how deformation-resistant and climate-immune the epoxy-filled sides are compared to the top). Of course, this only becomes an issues several decades into a guitar's life, so if these guitars are meant to be high-performance professional instruments rather than cross-generation heirloom pieces, then this isn't a particularly profound problem (and is probably a worthwhile compromise to improve the sonic characteristics of the instrument).
Can you laminate maple to maple; walnut to walnut etc.?
Yes, any wood will work really.
I wonder what's the difference between laminating 2 layers of wood and using just thicker wood. ¿Why not just 1 thick layer of wood?
man... I am doing this stuff with a Roarockit bag an a hand pump :-/
So, I understand about stiffer sides to make the top more resonant. What about the back? Is that also reinforced to stiffen it? Or do you got with a more traditional idea there?
I still want my back to contribute to the tone, so I still brace it traditionally
@@DriftwoodGuitars nice! Thanks for the info
I’m not quite sure I understand the reasoning behind the wood choice for the sides
Laminated sides? Isn't that usually what they do to cheaper guitars?
When I first read the title, I thought it said “Lamenting the Sides”.
He looks likes like a Ryan Reynolds/Bob Villa chimera.
Who does your hair?
My brain while watching this: Prepreg wood sheets should be a thing...🤔
My mouth: That's crazy
Wife: 🤨 What is?
Me: 😳 Nothing, nevermind...
I know the feeling.