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The Strange World of 'Forgiveness' Inside Jehovah's Witnesses
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2024
- To forgive is divine... nowhere should that be more evident than inside the 'best and happiest people on earth,' Jehovah's Witnesses. But does the culture encourage forgiveness? How do you get Jehovah's forgiveness? What does it look like to forgive someone inside the organization?
#jehovahswitness #exjw #watchtower #governingbody
TWITTER: @exjwpodcast
INSTAGRAM: survivingparadisepodcast
While being inside this organization, forgives is dictated to you by the governing body, it is not a personal choice. If you fail to do it their way, an elder will tap you on the shoulder and set you straight.. Free will does not exist, neither does true forgiveness. There is always a catch. Thank you Surviving Paradise for always providing sound, helpful information and advice. All of the above, and much more is why I walked away. Such Fakes.
I second that emotion ✋️
100% truth. Thank you for being here.... we can actually start a forgiveness chain here :)
Smokey Robinson @@sgt.v7237
They always forgive themselves for false prophecy (old light, rotten food at the improper time) so much so - no apologies needed.
They say: at one point we used to believe, now however we've come to understand"... this to change a belief. Its okay for the organization to change a belief but for an individual to change beliefs is problematic
Yep, they don't need to apologize for ANYTHING...including deaths
Before getting baptized I never even knew it was this convoluted and deeply insane. Lol
I was baptized at 17.....I had NO CLUE either lol
I remember when I was wanting to get baptised at 16 I went to a rock concert with a worldly friend from school. No one else knew I had been but I felt deeply sorry I had upset Jehovah. So I mentioned it to the elder who was the book study conductor. He had a meeting and it was decided that I needed to wait awhile before getting baptised. All because I went to a rock concert and even though I was sorry and no one else knew.... It was another 18 months before I was allowed to get baptised as the elders kept bringing it up. So much for forgiveness.
Even after I got baptised I struggled getting into pioneering as one elder held the going to the rock concert over me. He moved and I was able to progress.
"Sins" are never forgiven or forgotten by Elders.
I'd also feel safe in betting that the rock band you went to see is the same music some of the Elders also listen to.
I know Elders that sat on JCs disciplining fellow JWs for watching p*rn, all while the same Elders on the JC later admitted to watching p*rn themselves.
Dang, who did you see in concert?
🫂 Big hugs!
@@kevinmoyer6224 I went to see Metallica they were awesome
That's similar to things that happened to me! I loved my hair bands and openly went to concerts....I was a black sheep as a teenager. Looking back it was so stupid!!!
I believe in forgiveness to my core. Yet, I struggle everyday to forgive my mom for shunning me. Such a sick situation.
Love your podcast Stacy. This one hits home. Really, they all do, but really. Every one of us has at least one of those letters in our file. Washed clean, my ass... Your podcast is truely healing. Forcing us to deal with the damage the Borg has inflicted. I am super happy that I've never missed an episode. Those who are new here, please go through every episode. There is value in each one.
Stacey was my first 😉😉. The first exjw video that is. 😂
I stumbled upon it by sheer accident. I’d been out 25+ years & realized I’d been placing old books here & there and still talking about the teachings, but not saying I was once a jw. Makes me want to vomit. Especially since I was so adamant to everyone close to me. My kids were 3 & 5 when I faded. They’re now almost 30. They always said it was a cult. When I started referring to it as a cult, they were shocked. I lmao because they never thought I would deconstruct the indoctrination.
But, ya, all new people to the channel need to just start at video #1 and binge on them all back to back. I think so many that fade still believe a lot of it, like paradise earth. It’s not til it kicks you in the proverbial balls that you actually get it.
I was lucky enough to be in my early 20’s when I got dunked. So I had a life without organized religion in it before I came in, I know many only have jw views of what life is supposed to be. So sad. I think it was easier for me to walk away with my kids & from the deadbeat dad who was a brother because I was the only one in my family that was a jw. I’m in my 50’s now, once I watched the first exjdub video, that was my real awakening. Over the last 1-2 years I’ve dedicated a lot of time to deconstruct.
If anyone is wanting out of the org, get out asap if you can. Fade if you can as opposed to getting df’ed, but either way, as long as you’re out. Listen to legit exjdub channels. Keep an open mind. And always remember that all of us are here to support you. Your real “brothers & sisters” are here for you. All of us who walked away and gained freedom from the cult. I fee l like Stacey is a long lost brother because we were in the same areas & are the same age.
Life is too short and there’s so much laughter, beauty and peace on this planet (plane). Go truly enjoy life to the fullest. Live it YOUR way, period!
As RUSH says ... “I will choose free will”.
What a great comment, Jacki Jax! Big hugs!! 🫂 @@jackijax505
It's amazing how every single episode Stacy does just HITS. It really is healing. I'm so grateful for this little podcast. I never miss an episode. I found him right when he started & followed him right through all the way too, albeit through several name-changes of my own channel lol 😆. But yeah ... wow. Everyone NEEDS to hear every single one of these absolute GEMS! 💯
Thanks Phil, truly appreciate your words! Oh yes, I'd love to see my old file :)
You're too kind, thank you for being here! You and I are in the same situation....my son is now 31...he never bought it lol@@jackijax505
I believe I have at least 6 letters written against me of hearsay by other witnesses in my files that Elders will not let me read! Because it's all hearsay. Just go into the files of Elder's and you will see a culture of non-forgiveness! Record of sins keeping! 😮
They will never tell you who your accuser is, but the Elders sure have no problem listening to, and believing, every word.
@@adamantiumbullet9215 and yet the Bible says to take the issue to the offender first. Then if he doesn’t listen, Then go to the elders.
It follows you would know exactly who accused you.
WT way keeps with their love of secrecy 🤐
@@TallKulWmn1
Actually, step two is to take one or two other people with you as witnesses, and talk to the person. Step three is go to the congregation. Nothing there about going to the Elders.
But, I get what you're saying. Remind an Elder of the proper steps to be taken, as described in Mt. 18, and most of them act like they've never seen that scripture before.
@@TallKulWmn1
Incidentally, The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) in vs. 15 (see vss. 21 and 35) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man *or woman.* This is further proof that Elders, as they exist in WT, are not a part of the process.
@@adamantiumbullet9215 you are exactly right! Thank you for that. I was focused on keeping the accuser a secret goes against the Bible’s procedure 🤭
Re claim of JWs as happiest (8:06) I remember thinking often they/we were the most miserable. Eg, “things in world so bad I don’t know how much more I can take!”
JWs are so happy- that's why most them I knew drank heavily and/or were heavily medicated just so they could tolerate all the happiness they experienced as a JW.
I can't express how much I agree!!! Miserable
When the actual truth is, things just aren't that bad and we happen to live in the most spoiled rotten and convenient times in human history. It's the mantra that JWs get drummed into their ears at every single meeting, in the songs, and in all of the literature, that everything is so rotten. Yet, simultaneously, everyone just keeps eating and being entertained, even the JW that might actually believe in Armageddon. All anyone has to do to escape some stresses of life is to simply not watch the news (designed to freak us out) and stay off of social media. That will cut your stresses by a huge degree.
This is one I will share with my physically kicked out mentally in former pioneer wife! She just may be ready to hear so called apostate stuff! Evidence!
We need a new acronym for this one: *PKOMIFP*
@@adamantiumbullet9215 😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂@@adamantiumbullet9215
I hope she will listen! I wish you my best 😊
There you go!! She is still in??
Thanks for another presentation.
thank you!!!
Another excellent piece
Thank you Julie!!
I never understood why if Jesus died for forgiveness of our sins, how come Jehovah refuses to forgive us and wants to kill everyone at Armageddon. Better yet, he wants Jesus to lead the killy mega slaughter. Wouldn’t that make Jesus’ sacrifice completely useless?
There you go thinking again! You're right!!! JWs make Jesus sacrifice completely useless
It's in my nature not to forgive or forget. Life experience taught me that.
I'm listening and agree we are flawed. Just like King David! 🤴 BUT! When you shun you fail to forgive for sometimes years! Disfellowshiping prevents forgiveness to ever take place. And at times even Elders becoming murderers!
1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life remaining in him. We are talking about the GB view of Apostates!
So I tell all JW'S Continue to shun and disfellowship! But some Elders will never forget ones sins! Never!
Flawed like King David not on his level most of us haven't stolen someone else's wife and certainly not killed their husband.
David did the census and he had the three option's good old David picked the one that affected him the least but 70.000 Israelites died but the Bible says God said he was righteous. So I don't think we have to much to be worried about.
But when I was a JW you spoke to the elders and the answer you got is Jah reads hearts.
And we have the example in the OT where the guy was chopping up wood on the Sabbath and he is killed it really doesn't make any sense to me it's completely illogical.
David a righteous man just don't let him out of your site with your Wife or Daughters.
@@thetruthk5138
Some of the most disgusting characters in the Bible were also considered to be god's friends and had his stamp of approval. Let that sink in...
WELL said!!!! Forgiveness doesn't allow for shunning someone for mistakes.....
King David episode is coming....the absurdity!!!!@@thetruthk5138
And how many thousands have taken their own lives due to the anguish and isolation of disfellowshipping and shunning? Their blood is on the hands of elders!!
Man, this organisation is like Shylock looking for their pound of flesh!
That's putting it mildly!!
Beautifully and thoughtfully done! I am continually amazed by, and so grateful for, the wisdom, humor, sincerity & just the.... HUMANITY of this podcast! We've all been through the ringer with this cult and, although most of the events and situations that have hurt me personally are in the past, this cult & the GB specifically continue to take from me - and many others - our close relationships with the people we love. They stole something that shouldn't be able to be taken!
Listening to this podcast every week gives me such clarity & understanding of the immense gravity of what has happened to all of us!! It helps me to have more compassion for myself & others because of what we have been through. I THANK YOU, FRIEND, from the bottomof my heart!! ❤
WOW, thank you so much Culty!!! That means a lot coming from you!
👋🏼Lack of forgiveness is in full display when, at the Spanish Cong I attend, Parents and close relatives are discouraged to comment at the meetings when one of their own has been disfellowshipped. We were told that perhaps not commenting for a couple of months or so would be good…. Sooo forgiving!🙄
It's terrible....I've seen it!
Another unwritten law of the JWs ... All religion is man made .
They will not forgive, they do not forget, expect that...
100% truth!
As a cold gray, late night sky quenches the thirst of a parched terrain.
As stars yearn to illuminate their sparkle through the thick layer of
somber gloom.
As a beloved kitten reverberates a symphony of frequencies whilst snuggling upon a grateful heart.
As the lights dim & the comforting warmth of peace embraces your weary soul, time bids adue to yesterday while kindly welcoming in a new dawn.
As you take in a deep calculated breath, entrance into one of the most satisfying parts of the week begins … Surviving Paradise, with your host, Stacey Baumann.
Ohhhh yaaaaa. Good times friends, good times.
😁🤗🤜🏻🤛🏻💪🏼🌨🏈
Beatifully said. 🐈🐾🐈⬛💙🌠
ah yes, the beautiful wonders of a cat...natures blessing and gift to you
WOW!! You've got quite a gift with language. That was really beautiful!!
Stacey, you can Ramble On (Led Zeppelin) all you want. I forgive you. Always a great episode!
And it sure helps those of us who are a bit Dazed & Confused eh...
Thanks Estee, love me some Zeppelin!!!
Love it@@DM-he1ug
another great one! 😂😂😂amazing how “paradise” has become such a traumatizing word!!
A sad state of affairs when hearing of any paradise makes you run the other way!!
8 Kids in our Family. 3 are JW ( 3 can't stand each other) 1 married a 144k. One a narcissist dead beat Dad alcoholic. Baby Sis works in high tech and materialistic w/I Kids. Us 5 outsiders are camping, boiling crab and enjoying our Cousins and Grandkids. The JW Family has memories like elephants and hold grudges from decades and decades ago.
A story you can find in almost EVERY congregation of JWs!!
The gas lighting is impressive on this topic with the GB!!! Great points as always.
Thanks Heather!!
Everything you said is true. Wow, that was triggering...coming from a person who has been WAY too forgiving.
And then there is what the bible says about reparation. WT will never be able to repair the damage they have done. They dont even know what reparation is.
Agree!!! They simply cannot make any amends with the millions they have harmed. Unforgiveable in my opinion.
Another great recording. Every week a different topic. Thank you.
Thank you Paula!
Thank you Stacy! 👏
Thank you!!!
Thank you sir, you're so easy to follow and understand.
Thank you, I really appreciate that....I'm a rambler!
Taught everything is conditional using love as a weapon. 😢
And withhold it at will :(
Wow, great job. You got to the root of it. To anyone who doubts what you're saying, my experience will back you up.
I was df'd in 2009 and reinstated in 2012. End of 2018 I stupidly went to the elders and confessed some things I had been doing since my reinstatement. At the time I was PIMI and wanted a fresh start. Well of course they df'd me, even though I went of my own volition and for the life of me, I can't come up with any other motive that someone would have for doing that other than I was sorry and repentant.
Well, within a short time I moved to another cong. so a 3 man committee was formed there because they would be involved in any reinstatement. In the first meeting I had with them, they made me rehash the ENTIRE story of my 2009 df'ing. I was in disbelief, hurt, embarassed, angry. But as anyone who has been through this knows, they have all the power and if you challenge them on anything, you're basically screwing yourself because it's perceived as a bad attitude.
So no your past sins are never made "white as wool". I'm sure my past was in my records, so my guess is that they made me rehash it to see if what I told them was consistent with their records. Just to make sure I'm not a liar in addition to my other evil sins.
Anyway, they kept me out for 3 years. I wrote 5 or 6 letters total, beginning at the 1 year mark. Bear in mind that 2 of the 3 years was covid and I was isolated from friends and family, nearly all of whom were witnesses.
Here's a couple of interesting interactions I had with the lead brother in the cong. I moved to. Of course I'm on zoom for the meetings (btw, I maybe missed 5 meetings in the 3 years) which are deadly dull, so there were 3 or 4 times I dozed off and left the meeting on after it was over, and got put in chat rooms I guess automatically? I get an email, not a call, telling me that it has been observed that I have been staying on after the meetings in order to LISTEN IN on people's conversations, people I have never spoken to btw. No benefit of the doubt, just an accusation.
The other thing happened during a zoom meeting with the 3 elders after about 2 years. It was in response to another reinstatement letter, and of course they said not enough time had passed. I could not hold it in any longer, I told them that it doesn't seem like you want me back. No word of a lie, this is what the lead brother said to me: "if Jesus was on earth, he may have executed you, so you should be grateful that this is all that happened to you." If it was in an in person meeting that he said this, no question I would have smashed his face in. Now I am grateful for what he said because it was a big step in me waking up.
After I was finally reinstated, 1/3 of that cong. continued to avoid me. There actually were some very nice, loving people who were very kind to me though. I was reinstated Dec 2021, hung on through 2022 but finally left 1 year ago this month. Finally 45 years of being misled, gaslit, told I was never good enough no matter how much I did, and burdened with the witness meeting and service routine, I was free. I sincerely tried to be a good JW, was an M.S. for a long time, did every M.S. assignment there was, and did my very best but was never refreshed or happy. Finally, I can pursue true spirituality unburdened and free.
People may say that was just some rogue elder acting badly, but actually it was 2 bodies of elders that worked together to keep someone out who had freely confessed and attended 98% of the meetings for 3 years. The truth is, those men were enabled to act that way by the unbiblical procedure the witnesses have in place for shunning. To any current witnesses reading this, you are not in the "Truth" by any stretch. It is a human organization that also has some very dark, sinister forces pulling strings from behind the curtain.
WOW!!! Huge hugs to you....TERRIBLE....and I'm going to say it: TOO COMMON! I literally wanted to punch something when I read how they turned your ZOOM meetings/attendance into an excuse to 'associate' after the meetings!!! Seriously??? And as for the elder's comments about Jesus executing you: that guy would never have liked me, I would have embarrassed him right in front of you. SO glad you're free!!!!!
@@survivingparadisepodcast Thanks Stacey, you have more compassion than the vast majority of elders.
when I was a pioneer sister in my young twenties I had the “privilege” of going on a special preaching campaign in Africa with our C.O and his wife( relatively young also)By the the end of the trip he pulled me aside and said that now that I’ve traveled with him, I got to know him
more and I should not say anything negative to anyone so that he would also return the favor. lol I never forgave him for trying to blackmail me. It turns out on more than a few occasions I caught him not being very polite to his wife and myself at times. It was a big waking up moment. I recently heard he was caught cheating later when his wife got cancer! This organization! This was just over 5 years ago.
The my JW spouse would say they are imperfect men LoL.
But she will still listen and hang on to every word ;-)
if WT have so many rules because the bible doesn't cover todays society, why do they keep some and not other bible rules?
Christianity ala Cart ;)
We're perfectly Imperfect!
That's my label for sure!
Instead of Jezus Christ ..you need them for forgiveness ..a Big eyeopener !
...and painfully true! :(
Not only to forgive, but also pray for that person. For me that was something really traumatic.
❤❤❤
"it starts with two naked people, talking to a snake"😂
He doesn't tell you what the ending is - does he ? Lake of 🔥
LOL, you 'get me!'
Another great episode Stacey ! Keep up the good work
Thanks Jeron!!
Hi there Stacey, great podcast and wow people have moved to another congregation because of something they've done and can't be forgotten, I've seen brothers move to another state because they've been the victim of infidelity but moving to another state it's really raising the volume. It's like the more you learn about this cult more and more 🐇 come out of the hat, another thing wow it's been a while I've heard that text about your sins been red as scarlet and it will all be as white as snow,,, they used to toss that number around at my old congregation, great podcast Stacey and till next week.
Thanks David!!! I can't begin to tell you how common it is for people to need to move due to infamous sins everyone knows about. VERY common!
You're my generation of growing up JW and leaving as adults! Fun reminiscing with you! I wish you would've been an elder in my hall, was giving the loving congregation needs! I'm cracking up over the car groups and sisters not working together. There were feuds with families in our hall. My mom loved giving the Silent Treatment to her kids. I was put on "Bad Association" 1984-1986 and when they stopped doing it, my mom loved me again. Big hypocrisy!!!! The Gossip and Ratting each other out is ridiculous. It's actually, kinda funny now that I'm out.
Get Out Of ALL Religions.
Revelation chapter 18
Thank you for another great episode.
I would like to put the Elders or even better the Governing Body members through a POLIGRATH and ask them a few private question!! That would be very entertaining!!
They would fail in epic fashion
Evidently making fun of bald guys is Unforgivable😅😅😅😅😅😅 you never cease to amaze me😅
Let's put it this way -
It wasn't BEAR able for
juvenile delinquents. 😮😮
LOL, you get me!
Great podcast; don’t think u rambled at all. It was very coherent and concise.
As a former Elder, that locked file cabinet filled w/ all the “sins” is evidence enough about “forgiveness.” Sending off “Letters of Introductions”, letters that are not allowed to be seen by the person it’s about, mind u, is evidence enough about “forgiveness.”
B4 I left, we considered a brother for office of Ministerial Servant. He was rejected b/c of a sin he committed in 1993, a sin his wife forgave him for, & was of a personal matter. One of the Brothers who was on our body was kin to the other participating party, and he stated that sin broke up a family, & he hasn’t lived it down in “his” book. This discussion took place in 2021, TWENTY EIGHT YEARS LATER.
This same brother also wouldn’t sit by a fellow Elder on our body b/c he called him out using congregation funds for reimbursement when he did certain things (e.g: gas $$ for going to get labels printed). He wanted to go to blows w/ said brother (that incident was 5 yrs prior).
However, when a pedophile (sexting w/ a minor) asked to be used again as a Pioneer, this SAME brother said we should be forgiving, not harsh, as that incident took place 10 yrs ago, so we need to convey that to the Service Desk. Lol
Forgiveness in the JW community is contingent on several factors, but it’s 100% a toxic environment as any wrong doing spreads like wild fire immediately once a SINGLE person knows about it.
I had to read this three times to grasp the insanity....and it was all too familiar!!! Mix in some nepotism and forgiveness became a tool wielded for personal gain. It's horrific!!! Thanks for sharing for all to see the gross hypocrisy!
Yep. I was an ex-JW elder as well for over a decade and you make a good point. Their record card lists all of their so called "sins" that the elders got involved with for the past 10 years or more. Gee, apparently they forgot about the well defined description of love in 1 Corinth. 13: 5,....." Love.....does not keep account of the injury!"
Good morning Stacy. Another Great Job. Sometime last year an article was put out, and the title of the article was “ Missed placed compassion”.
Ooooh, thank you I'll look for that article!
Word translator to navigate through WT Land:
*"a sometimes serious, oftentimes humorous look"* = How the Governing Body formulates WT doctrines. (love ya, Stacy).
*"paradise"* = a dystopian doomsday cult ruled by 9 megalomaniacal narcissists who hear god's voice (otherwise known as schizophrenia).
*"flawed"* = 8.5 million JWs *except* the 9 members of the GB. "Flawed" also applies to 8.5 billion non-JWs, a.k.a. "wicked" people.
*"forgiveness"* = twisting the knife I put in your back tempered with a hint more of conditional love.
*"humility"* = JWs are the best at everything despite being flawed.
*"mistakes"* = a thing you must apologize for, UNLESS you are a member of the GB.
*"local needs talk"* = not a true local need but a way for Elders to embarrass a specific JW in front of the group without saying their name. _see_ 'unofficial marking'.
Love it! 'Loaded language for dummies!👍🏼🤣🇳🇱
B R A V O !! I do believe you've captured it all perfectly! 👏 👏 👏 I love your comments.
I can't love this enough!!!!!!! SO well said!!!!!
I know of two sisters that did not talk. One of them never signed up for the ministry school. I guess it was because she was worried, if she did, they would have intentionally give them both a talk ( it was known that they don’t talk) Why it was that way I never knew, it was something happened a long long time ago.
So much infighting!
Thought the JW elders would have said to them what if you are put in prison you will have to talk to each other then.
And to think these individuals as Christ said are supposed to die for me while in years of attending some individuals I had never been round.
But it never stopped them talking about love every Tuesday and Sunday absolute madness
1:02:46 …. TRUTH!!! 💪🏼
How about requesting reinstatement 3 times over a 2 year period; when you never committed a serious sin to begin with; and being denied or ignored? Even if I had committed a "serious sin", why would I ask for reinstatement if I were still practicing the sin? Jehovah told His people Israel in Jeremiah's day that though they were serious sinners; he "would discipline them to the proper degree."--(Jer. 30: 11) Verse 17 stated that he "would bring up a recuperation for them, and heal them from their strokes."
But JW elders totally forget that mindset of our Creator and take "discipline" to an EXTREME DEGREE! Galatians exhorts those" with spiritual qualifications to readjust a man or woman in a spirit of mildness, while keeping an eye out for yourself." But NO, they "readjust so-called sinners by beating them with a spiritual baseball bat when they're already down and discouraged and need the fellowship of their families and friends! They effectively tell these, "stay down, and you'll get up when WE SAY YOU'RE READY TO GET UP!!"
Psalm 103: 9 says, NWT---"He will not for all time keep finding fault, he will not stay resentful forever." (Re: Jehovah God) But elders keep "finding fault and harboring resentment" until in their own minds, it's time to let someone back in! Their judgement of their brother or sister SUPERCEDES Jehovah's! It's disgusting to see this totally contradictory attitude to the spirit and love that our King Christ Jesus showed people when he walked the earth. Well guess what, elders? Jesu says, "I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness!" Matt. 7: 23
Hi Stacey, I wait anxiously for you every week. I need your input on this. I heard about the JWs at 17 and within 5 years I was in and out, no one in my family joined so leaving wasn’t hard. Needless to say the damage was done, left in 1980. My bipolar roof struggles from leaks to storms, I feel the need to believe in God, but I don’t. I had visions of people or events while sleeping. I have been woken by a warm breath whispering in my ear and walked straight to it, something exists, but don’t know what. I have been donating for last few years to St. Jude’s a lot more than I can afford. A newborn in our family might have cancer. I’m so confused, how could a good God allow so much suffering, but what is out there? I need to believe. I have to go and listen to your video on this topic again. ❤ T4s
((HUGS)) to you Regina!! You're definitely in the throws of emotions that come with this entire experience. I'm SO sorry about the newborn, sending love your way!!!! It's a very difficult question Regina. I am agnostic personally. I also have very closed love ones that deal with bi-polar disorder I have such compassion for what you're going through! I'm VERY glad you're out of this religion as it cause horrific emotions when dealing with mental illness. Are you seeking help/therapy? Please do!!! It's worth it. Spirituality and believing in an Almighty is tricky and so personal. I myself find comfort in being open to learning and/or believing..... but I require proof....I no longer believe just to 'believe'.....are you still spiritual?
Did Adam and Eve commit an unforgivable sin?
They gave up belief in GOD .
@@John-fi5ik No they didn't! They even taught their children how to give offerings to God for worship!
They listened to the voice of a stranger with Fatal consequences.
they have no shot at resurrection....subject for a whole show
@@John-fi5ik What?! They literally talked to his face. They didn't even have to rely on faith, god literally strolled through the garden looking for them. Voice of a stranger? IT WASN'T EVEN A HUMAN. Where the heck did you fall from?
Oh no not another long and boring news flash from an x JW who likes to laugh at himself 😂
Oh no...not another brainwashed TROLL! 🤢🤮
Human frailty can be forgiven
Based on genuine repentance.
But Blasphemy against GOD
The HOLY SPIRIT can never be.
Thats what makes Atheism /
Agnosticism So ETERNALLY FATAL.
Hi John. Atheism is NOT the unforgivable sin. God is a Trinity ( God , Holy Spirit - Jesus ). The holy spirit is female.
Think about that " sinning against the holy spirit ". See what the unforgivable sin is now ?
And when HE has come,
HE will convict the world of sin
And of Righteousness and
Of Judgment of sin
Because they do not believe in ME.
John. 16. 8,9.
@FantasyVisuals
BEING THE ETERNAL FATHER
GOD IS ALWAYS MASCULINE .
Well, I guess we ALL don't know since YOU 👏 ARE 👏 NOT 👏 GOD 👏 And we can be THANKFUL FOR THAT!!
@@cultytalk
HIS invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even HIS eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse -
Because although they knew GOD, they did not glorify HIM as GOD, nor were thankful, but became worthless in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Professing to be WISE
They instead became FOOLS .
Time to enter into the spiritual paradise with a good cup of coffee of course!☕️🫖
The best!
oh no this podcast isn’t paradise, it is where you come to heal once you’ve SURVIVED paradise 😂