The more I watch DS9, the more I rate it as the best Star Trek series. It had everyone; plots, twists, intrigue, interesting personalities/characters, fleet strategies etc.. I would regard it as a sci fi soap opera. The later Star Trek: Enterprise tried it, but they were geared around exploration, so it didn't have the same impact. Whereas, DS9 had more flexibility as a space station to interact and engage with more species in one platform.
I suppose he had to acknowledge their prowess. He said himself that even the Klingons never considered an attack that far. To make the enemy aware of your ability to launch such a devastating attack with such heavy losses would be a good way to undermine your enemies moral and their will to fight.
When this episode aired for the first time it was like a punch to the gut. Earth . . well MAJOR DAMAGE on Earth was usually avoided...but Starfleet HQ itself and our girl - the golden gate bridge is even fucked! I remember rewinding the VHS over and overlooking at the damage to HQ realizing how bad it was. The music in the scene as well - this was a very VERY low moment in the War/Arc in the show. I think the worst is when Ben punched the desk in anger after 12 out of 112 ships returned from an engagement. Shit show us THAT battle! God I miss good trek! THIS IS TREK IN ITS PRIME!
Did it? Garak suggests the Defiant can wipe out the entire Founder homeworld by itself, but a Breen attack fleet just damages a few buildings? Inconsistent world building.
Martok was the best klingon by a long shot. Like maybe the only one that actually lived up to Klingon values. Most we see are conniving politicians and schemers who hide behind "honour" as a political game. Or Worf, a joyless uptight weirdo who will claim Klingons don't laugh. Martok is the only one we see that's a proud honourable warrior, has room for joy in his life, and is actually a decent open-minded and ethical person at his core.
Fun fact: Damar tells the Breen general to not turn his back on Weyoun is a nice callback to the Romulan saying "Never turn your back on a Breen" as heard in the season 5 episode By Inferno's Light.
Günther Prien taking his U-boat into Scapa Flow, the heart of the Royal Navy, and sinking the battleship Royal Oak. Did little to effect the strategic situation but was a severe blow to British morale.
@@DomWeasel okay that might be a closer analogy I didn't even think of that although I thought it was a combined effort of U-Boat and dive-bombers in taking out the Royal Oak. Despite the evil of Nazi Germany won contribucion to the modern world that they contributed the Blitzkrieg tactics were the foundation of combined-arms attack
@@eddieschwab864 Ju 88s attacked Scapa Flow four days later and heavily damaged the decommissioned battleship Iron Duke which had, ironically, been serving as an AA platform.
Except the Breen attack actually caused damage and was to any degree effective beyond propaganda. I’m pretty sure the Breen didn’t get tens of thousands of Chinese murdered for a photo op, either…
They think they know us Humans so well, when they thought they could strike fear into the Federation by a bold attack on headquarters. Attacks like that don't make us fear further attacks, it makes us angry.
Further, until then, most people probably thought of the war as being over outer Federation colonies along the Demilitarized Zone with Cardassian territory. The attack on Earth surely made it clear to the general population that if they lost, the Dominion wouldn't stop there, but _really would_ come and destroy the entire Federation! So, I ask again;. Why did the Breen do this?
@@TheNoiseySpectator The civilian population of the Federation live in a utopian post-scarcity society. They haven't known hardship or danger for literally centuries. Even when early Starfleet was hard-pressed by a hostile klingon empire and other serious threats the actual planetary citizens on worlds like Earth were unaffected. They would be very vulnerable to demoralization. If they become convinced Starfleet can't protect them they would quickly start demanding an end to the war under any terms necessary. The kind of nationalistic feeling you're assuming wouldn't really exist in the 24th century.
i like how weyoun never really understands the solids he thinks that fear and threat of death always is they key to succes perhaps thats how he sees it, but in our history, fear has always caused wars to escalate, meaning that more resources are diverted to war and people are willing to sacrifice more for the survival of the nation weyoun's assumtion works when an uprising hasnt started yet, and when the battlelines haven't been drawn yet, but once in a fight, giving your enemy reasons to fear you only increased their aggressiveness, determination and ruthlessness in short, bad call, its a strategy that works in peacetime, not in wartime
It can be effective in the short term but it never really works long term as eventually people will decide fighting and dying is better than being afraid all the time
I just watched all the Breen dialog translated into subtitles on another channel and it is even more impactful. This was peak suspense at the end of the series... Now if only they would just give DS9 the honor of BluRay like every other show.
I remember watching this as a kid and being heartbroken cause the tide seemed to be turning in the Federations favor in the last episide, only for the next episode showed Starfleet Command in flames. The writing of these episodes was great, we got to feel demoralized like those in Starfleet
This is how you can tell this is a pre-9/11 sci-fi show. For 90s audiences this was surprising and upped the stakes in the context of Trek lore. But post-9/11 in Trek lore we've had disasters that make this seem inconsequential. Vulcan destroyed Khan attack on Starfleet HQ which leveled half of San Francisco the Xindi attack on Earth. All of these are because post-9/11 audiences are no longer phased by a Pearl Harbor style attack its quaint almost.
Adding Biggs and Hertzler to the cast must have had a positive effect upon the ratings. The only complaint about DS9 that I heard, which was at all pronounced, was the fact that the Dominion War story arc precluded first time viewers from understanding the context of it, as contrasted with stand-alone episodes. But alas, it can't be had both ways. The war arc probably kept DS9 from being cancelled earlier. As well, it worked better as an ensemble, with almost all the actors being fairly equal. Now if Masterson had been allowed to go about topless, it would have been great!
Biggs as Damar is pure quality, one of my favourite characters. I think the Breen are some sort of furry chameleon like worm and are subterranean under the helmets.
@@cosmicironyproductions5087Other than the cost of the costumes, they were paid merely as extras, so that was obviously a big motivation for creating them.
I like that it shows the Dominion is unstable at the best of times even in strategy. An attack on Earth was always going to be thwarted even if it caused a lot of damage. The Federation alliance was fairly strong at this point in the war having the Romulans join them. The attack on Earth had no strategic or tactical objective beyond breaking the morale of Star Fleet. History shows those who preoccupy themselves with such frivolous stuff will always lose in the long run. War is about bullets and man power, not people and their feelings.
That attack had tbd exact opposite effect the breen were hoping for. Instead of fear it filled many of us with a terrible resolve to inflict horrible punishments upon the dominion. I know I gave the order of no accepting surrenders and that every dominion ship was to be blown to pieces. We were especially brutal to the breen, as many of us lost friends in that attack we saw it as a way to make our enemies pay for the lives they took. For us it was truly give no quarter. Some of us wondered if we were being too dark, then all we had to do was see fleet HQ and we got pitch black.
@@JS-wp4gs Actually, yeah, they were. then again, DS9 had a fairnumber of tall Stuntwomen, given Nana Visitor and Terry Farrell are actually fairly tall. Not to mention all the female klingons.
The breen haven't been seen or mentioned since deep space nine which makes them the most mysterious species in the trekverse, I often wonder when the powers that be are gonna bring them back into the fold 🤔
Damar has forgotten one important detail - the Breen never tried to exterminate the Founders the Cardassians did. Had Damar stuck around he would've been shocked when the Founder forgave the Breen for setbacks and/or blamed the Cardassians as always.
Well it appears to have been a suicide run with a handful of ships. Who knows how many ships actually reached the target area and how long they were shooting before they went down? This is the kind of mission that most militaries wouldn't attempt as it is not likely to achieve much for the near guaranteed loss of men and materiel.
Let's not forget the number of episodes/films in Star Trek where there's only one starship near Earth that's capable of handling a rather routine mission being the entire plot hook for the story.
The Breen only damaged a bridge and a couple of building. Star Trek ships can render a planet uninhabitable in mere moments. Most likely debris are the culprit for the damage, or the planetary shields act like ship-mounted ones and can let some energy pass through under heavy bombardment.
@@Spiz103 Well there was the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo in 1942. It provided an important boost to American morale. So the symbolic effect shouldn't be underestimated. Of course as you say the military value of such operations is very limited. So it usually does remain rare. But most of the time not because it would be suicidal it's usually simply not feasible.
Considering how effective the Breen weapon was, I wonder if they could not have commited more forces to their assault or sent new waves of attack and cripple Earth in a more definitive way or at least for the diversion of enough forces to protect it that it would weaken considerably the war effort.
The Breen had nowhere near as many ships as the great powers. Even then, their ships were far inferior to Starfleet's. The secret weapon was extremely effective but the Federation fleets could still fight back, especially with enormous planetary defences helping them. Bear in mind as well that at this point in the war, the Dominion fleets were still outnumbered, even with the Breen. They were in no position to mount any major long-term offensives.
@@mattboesch8907 Funny enough I was just in Modesto on my way to a camping trip. I'd say its teetering now, 100% not going to make it to the 24th century.
I do think its funny how they never let the audience know anything about the breen. We all saw in the beginning when the breen came the cardassians couldn't even understand them, but they got to and still the audience had no idea even in these episodes. Weyune even said, did you know their home world isn't a frozen waste land? And demar said, so why do they wear refrigeration suits/ And wayune said, see mysterious..
The Federation has a poor defense system around their capital planet, Earth. Starfleet probably prioritizes 2/3 of the fleet and manpower vs the Dominion force, the other 1/5 is probably at the Romulan Neutral Zone, in case the Romulans use this opportunity to attack the Federation Border, the 10 percent could be the only Federation starships who are still exploring the vast Beta Quadrant, the 5 percent was send to protect every Federation member worlds and allies who are near to the Cardassian territory and probably only 1 or 2 starships are allocated to protect Earth and the Solar System and those 2 starships could be an outdated Excelsior or Miranda class as most of the modern and combat starships like the Akira, Sovereign, Steamrunner, Intrepid and Defiant are on the frontlines of the war
The idea was that this was an era when the Federation council was still ruled heavily by pacifist members. They advocated for no weapons at all, but finally agreed to only minimal defensive weapons to be installed on Earth and other member world planetary defense systems. Earth Spacedock, for example, could easily be a fortress, but the Federation council, and its leader at this time, Jaresh Inyo, refused. These intellectual pacifists had a gift for debate and would destroy anyone opposing them on the floor. It wasn't until after the Dominion war did sentiment change whereby the Federation became more militaristic in nature. They radically upgraded the Starfleet starships, made Earth Spacedock have more singular firepower than hundreds of the most powerful ships, and brought back the title of Commodore.
I think the more important scene was The Breen General and Damar . Damar walked up ro him and basically said the Dominion wanted a free troop bolstering to throw lives at the Starfleet problem. Scapegoat time. Cardassian ... then Breen... Also, that the Cardassians were under the thumb of the Dominion now and basically that would be the fate of the Breen. The Breen attack force was nearly obliterated. "So few ships" made it back that the Breen ultimately lost and couldn't fully breach Earth's meager defenses. The Dominion gave a fake pat on the back at good job you nearly got yourselves all killed and made an enemy of the Federation... now you're our pawn until the war is over, and then after you're ours because you're so weakened. Jem'Hadar will be all over your planet, "securing it" for Dominion "cooperation" (rule).
@@ShannonCarter55 yeah, you pretty much dont get close to earth unless you fight through everything else on the way, or you sabotage things. Even the romulans in the 2009 movie used pike to sneak past the Earth Defense Grid.
@@Timeward76 considering that we don't know in Alpha Canon what Breen actually look like, wouldn't put it past them that they can easily pass for other species known or allied to the Federation.
@@ShannonCarter55 given their recent allegiance to the dominion, its also possible a well placed changeling just did a well timed bit of sabotage to allow the breen fleets to sneak by at the right moment.
I wonder if they did the Chewbacca style of acting for the Breen where the actors said what the dialogue was and the incomprehensible sound effect was added later.
JG Hertzler as Martok is simply the most Klingon of all Klingons. No one does a Klingon better. Certainly not Worf, who is a character that can best be described as a wigger of Klingons.
Fans say the Enterprise can destroy a planet, Garak says the Defiant can eradicate the entire world of the Founders, yet here we see an alien fleet attacking Earth and doing as much damage as a few 21st century missiles. Gee, isn't that convenient?
The biggest miscalculation by the Dominion was thinking that an attack on Earth would demoralize the Federation. But they didn’t count on the resolve of humanity.
More akin to Doolittle Raid in Japan. UFP learn to not overstreatch itself. It prolonged the war, but after Dominion lost his shipyards and was put on his back foot defeat was unavoiable.
I think Sisko would know enough of Klingon customs that Martok was giving significant praise by his response. That is, they fought and died with honor against a powerful enemy.
@oldtwinsna8347 but sisko was also prone to let fly afterall he chewed out gowron when martok was in sickbay being treated after gowron ordered a pointless attack.
"To launch an attack on Starfleet HQ ... even MY people never attempted that" FF a couple of decades to STD where the Klingons were on Earth's doorstep by the end of the war... uh huh. Thanks Kurtzman for your diligent research and adherence to the lore.
@@Deepingmind considering that Season 3 and 4 made me hate Burnham (not the actress, she just acted with the poor material she was given) that I won't be surprised she's named Goddess of the Universe and We Must All Worship Her by the end of S5 then SNW used footage that showed Jan 6 protests started WW3 (along with outright xenophobia towards Illyrians despite Denobulans and other species being known to do augmentation - Earth has one bad era with augments and suddenly the entire Fed. does, sure.... - and making the Gorn into xenomorphs) so thats out. Only Picard (which has grown on me since S2 cleaned up the mess), Prodigy and Lower Decks (despite the vulgarity) have really worked.
"We have struck far into the heart of our enemy and made them feel weak and vulnerable." How to say you don't know much about humans without saying it.
That Vorta scum and his puppetmasters never understood humanity. They were so obsessed with everything aligning with their delusional, emotionless worldview, that they couldn't perceive of it being human nature to hit back harder after you've been struck on your own home turf. The Dominion genuinely deserves to burn, but Starfleet are better people than that.
You would think that after the last Klingon War, and two near Borg exursions they would build a planetary shield array or have static defenses...nope...not anyone huh.
It was a sneak attack. The Breen disguised their ships as freighters and then hijacked the North American defense grid and scrambled it. By the time Earth realized it it was too late.
Of course they did. The Breen attack was so swift and so powerful that they broke through it. Remember, their target was only one region of one city out of the whole planet. Or so it seemed. They may have been up to something else and used the attack on San Francisco as a smokescreen.
The Breen: Show up 3 episodes before the end of DS9. Destroy Starfleet headquarters and almost single-handedly turn the tide of war in favor of the Dominion. Refuse to elaborate. Leave.
0:01 Is anyone here really from San Francisco? I have always wondered what is now at the location where Starfleet headquarters is supposed to be, one day. Based on the angel from where you can see the Golden Gate bridge, what is there? In other words, to see the Golden Gate bridge when you look out that direction, where would you have to be standing? On what property?
@@RW77777777 WELL, THEN TELL ME !!! 😭 I have only been to S California once in my life, and I live on the other side of the continent, so it is reasonable that would not know! 🤷♂️
It stinks that these shows write themselves into a corner (Breen can kick Starfleet's butt) and then are forced to make them do something dumb (a useless raid using up most of their fleet against planetary defenses) to enable the good guys to win eventually. I mean, ok - if you are able to strike the planet, why is Earth still inhabitable? They simply tried to make the Breen appear tough but in fact made them appear incompetent. Breen motivation to take the Dominion's side was NEVER explained or justified.
People have to understand this was NOT starfleet HQ it was the academy! Which better way to strike fear into someone then to attack new blood. Starfleet HQ is a different location via the Golden gate bridge Look at TNG look at the old movies.
They attached earth, and the only scorn is " so few ships survived".. how did any ships survive? That showed how lacking earths defenses really were to an assault. And I thought breen don't retreat? So how did they survive and earth still lives? Earth has insane shields and orbital defenses, they even showed it in picard season 3 when the borg took over star trek vessels and it took a long time and a million photos and phaser blasts to take down the star base and the shield.
Picard was after the Domion war, after the battle of 001, after Shinzon. The federation, Earth for that matter, was still a nation at peace. Like America before Pearl Harbor. After this the federation had to get more defenses and ships. Thats when the peacekeepers had to become soldiers
Earth did NOT have insane shields and orbital defenses. Just the opposite. The Federation council did not allow Earth to build up its weaponry platform because they were ruled by pacifists from the early 24rd century that saw peace in the Federation for decades on end. This is why Admiral Leyton wanted to seize control and institute martial law, as he felt alien members had no business dictating what Earth could or could not do in a time of crisis. Earth Spacedock, for instance, only had minimal weapons, artificially imposed. It wasn't until the decades after the war we saw a dramatic shift in posture of Earth defenses, as seen in the Picard series.
not sure if you watched the last season of picard, in the final episode I think it was, earth's star base had one epic space battle. The visual of hundreds of ships firing photons at the station non stop with phasers hitting it. And they said the station will only hold out for another 40 minutes! wtf man. Guess earth improved its defenses after dominion war? @@oldtwinsna8347
Breen had the weapon they used in the next battle. Why didnt they just launch a full scale attack on earth using that weapon and take earth. While the Dominion and Cardassia attack the Chin'Toka and flood to DS9. I full on bold move could pushed the Federation in mass retreat and huge loss moral wise.
Props to the composer and dialogue. They manage to add so much more tension, fear and intrigue to an already mysterious species.
The more I watch DS9, the more I rate it as the best Star Trek series. It had everyone; plots, twists, intrigue, interesting personalities/characters, fleet strategies etc.. I would regard it as a sci fi soap opera. The later Star Trek: Enterprise tried it, but they were geared around exploration, so it didn't have the same impact. Whereas, DS9 had more flexibility as a space station to interact and engage with more species in one platform.
"Leave it to you Damar to point out the one cloud in the sky..."
I'm gonna pocket that line.
Seeing starfleet HQ in ruin is honestly soo harrowing. It's so utopian regularly and for it to look war-struck is both shocking and exciting.
It's San Francisco, the fact the dominion burned that cesspool to the ground means the founders were right all along.
@@AgeofGuns If you think San Fran is a Cesspool, you clearly haven't seen Miami or Mar-a-Lago recently.
oh, it looks like San Francisco modern day now
@@AgeofGuns Where ever you are, it's a cesspool with a moron like you in the vicinity.
Lmao every time people talk about a "bad city" it's always some nice place with a low crimerate.
0:27 When a Klingon General acknowledges you as a race of Warriors then you know you're bad-ass.
I suppose he had to acknowledge their prowess. He said himself that even the Klingons never considered an attack that far. To make the enemy aware of your ability to launch such a devastating attack with such heavy losses would be a good way to undermine your enemies moral and their will to fight.
When ur lame, you have to praise the enemy to feel better. Backward tech, weird blades and decorative cos play armour don't make u warrior
Martok is one of the Klingons who doesnt view Humanity as weaklings and inferior
1:08 "Just relax for a moment,...you're free of the carbonite..."
When this episode aired for the first time it was like a punch to the gut. Earth . . well MAJOR DAMAGE on Earth was usually avoided...but Starfleet HQ itself and our girl - the golden gate bridge is even fucked! I remember rewinding the VHS over and overlooking at the damage to HQ realizing how bad it was. The music in the scene as well - this was a very VERY low moment in the War/Arc in the show. I think the worst is when Ben punched the desk in anger after 12 out of 112 ships returned from an engagement. Shit show us THAT battle! God I miss good trek! THIS IS TREK IN ITS PRIME!
The attack proved they were a formidable race to everyone. Not to mention that energy dampening weapon proved they have some great engineers.
Did it? Garak suggests the Defiant can wipe out the entire Founder homeworld by itself, but a Breen attack fleet just damages a few buildings? Inconsistent world building.
Sisko and Martok were a dangerous duo.
Martok was the best klingon by a long shot. Like maybe the only one that actually lived up to Klingon values. Most we see are conniving politicians and schemers who hide behind "honour" as a political game. Or Worf, a joyless uptight weirdo who will claim Klingons don't laugh. Martok is the only one we see that's a proud honourable warrior, has room for joy in his life, and is actually a decent open-minded and ethical person at his core.
@@baronjutter Yes to all of that. An outstanding character in what had mostly been a deplorable race in his era.
I loved that old series. Different than the other ones. Great characters and the Dominion war was icing on the 🎂 as they say.
Fun fact: Damar tells the Breen general to not turn his back on Weyoun is a nice callback to the Romulan saying "Never turn your back on a Breen" as heard in the season 5 episode By Inferno's Light.
That helmet looks so terribly like Leia's Boushh disguise it's not even funny anymore.
That's because IT IS based on the Leia bounty hunter outfit.
ILM aka Lucas films cgi company, did the cgi for voyager. They may have done some for this show too
I've been saying that about the Breen helmets for over 25 years, and no one seems to believe me.
0:59 And this map looks way too much like somebody took a scan of Karabakch map
This is my first time seeing them, and I'm thinking the same thing!
The Breen attack on Earth is probably most analogous to the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo.
Or Hannibal crossing the Alps into Italy.
Günther Prien taking his U-boat into Scapa Flow, the heart of the Royal Navy, and sinking the battleship Royal Oak. Did little to effect the strategic situation but was a severe blow to British morale.
@@DomWeasel okay that might be a closer analogy I didn't even think of that although I thought it was a combined effort of U-Boat and dive-bombers in taking out the Royal Oak. Despite the evil of Nazi Germany won contribucion to the modern world that they contributed the Blitzkrieg tactics were the foundation of combined-arms attack
@@eddieschwab864
Ju 88s attacked Scapa Flow four days later and heavily damaged the decommissioned battleship Iron Duke which had, ironically, been serving as an AA platform.
Except the Breen attack actually caused damage and was to any degree effective beyond propaganda.
I’m pretty sure the Breen didn’t get tens of thousands of Chinese murdered for a photo op, either…
All the Federation has to do is show the Breen some Daft Punk videos, and they'll make peace with Earth.
They think they know us Humans so well, when they thought they could strike fear into the Federation by a bold attack on headquarters.
Attacks like that don't make us fear further attacks, it makes us angry.
Further, until then, most people probably thought of the war as being over outer Federation colonies along the Demilitarized Zone with Cardassian territory.
The attack on Earth surely made it clear to the general population that if they lost, the Dominion wouldn't stop there, but _really would_ come and destroy the entire Federation!
So, I ask again;. Why did the Breen do this?
@@TheNoiseySpectator The civilian population of the Federation live in a utopian post-scarcity society. They haven't known hardship or danger for literally centuries. Even when early Starfleet was hard-pressed by a hostile klingon empire and other serious threats the actual planetary citizens on worlds like Earth were unaffected. They would be very vulnerable to demoralization. If they become convinced Starfleet can't protect them they would quickly start demanding an end to the war under any terms necessary. The kind of nationalistic feeling you're assuming wouldn't really exist in the 24th century.
@@dark7element Unfortunately, you are correct!
@@dark7element i doubt that
@@dark7elementyou don’t have to be nationalistic to feel that way
Definitely one of my favorite aliens.
Stephen Breen
2 weeks ago Same here too.
@@jamieolberding7731 my last name may have something to do with my bias 🤔 😆
@@stephenbreen7570 Cool.
@@stephenbreen7570 The Borg must be popular in Sweden then. Also fun fact, Breen captains are called “Thots”
How can something no one knows anything about be your favorite?
Seeing starfleet headquarters in shambles is another star trek moment that will be forever burned into my brain.
I wondered why this episode looked so familiar. Then I went to IMDB and found out I was the editor on it.
How can you tell?
you took out all the curse words!?!?
i like how weyoun never really understands the solids
he thinks that fear and threat of death always is they key to succes
perhaps thats how he sees it, but in our history, fear has always caused wars to escalate, meaning that more resources are diverted to war and people are willing to sacrifice more for the survival of the nation
weyoun's assumtion works when an uprising hasnt started yet, and when the battlelines haven't been drawn yet, but once in a fight, giving your enemy reasons to fear you only increased their aggressiveness, determination and ruthlessness
in short, bad call, its a strategy that works in peacetime, not in wartime
You mean the Alpha & Beta Quadrant solids...
Weyoun is a solid himself.
Germany made the same mistake in 1940.
It can be effective in the short term but it never really works long term as eventually people will decide fighting and dying is better than being afraid all the time
Enemies of Mongol empire beg differ.
@@tomascernak6112 The Mongolians didn’t just used fear. They made it worthwhile to have trade relations with them.
I just watched all the Breen dialog translated into subtitles on another channel and it is even more impactful. This was peak suspense at the end of the series... Now if only they would just give DS9 the honor of BluRay like every other show.
I wonder if Data could learn Breen as quickly as he learned sign language.
I remember watching this as a kid and being heartbroken cause the tide seemed to be turning in the Federations favor in the last episide, only for the next episode showed Starfleet Command in flames. The writing of these episodes was great, we got to feel demoralized like those in Starfleet
This is how you can tell this is a pre-9/11 sci-fi show. For 90s audiences this was surprising and upped the stakes in the context of Trek lore. But post-9/11 in Trek lore we've had disasters that make this seem inconsequential. Vulcan destroyed Khan attack on Starfleet HQ which leveled half of San Francisco the Xindi attack on Earth. All of these are because post-9/11 audiences are no longer phased by a Pearl Harbor style attack its quaint almost.
Clever observation - its true. Our threshold for terror is much higher than it was pre-9/11.
Adding Biggs and Hertzler to the cast must have had a positive effect upon the ratings. The only complaint about DS9 that I heard, which was at all pronounced, was the fact that the Dominion War story arc precluded first time viewers from understanding the context of it, as contrasted with stand-alone episodes. But alas, it can't be had both ways. The war arc probably kept DS9 from being cancelled earlier. As well, it worked better as an ensemble, with almost all the actors being fairly equal. Now if Masterson had been allowed to go about topless, it would have been great!
Well, and the fact that Avery Brooks, selected purely for ethnicity, can't act anger to save his life. Worst main cast since before Andromeda.
@@nvelsen1975 Terrible take. Brooks was a solid actor, he's just acting Shakespeare.
Biggs as Damar is pure quality, one of my favourite characters. I think the Breen are some sort of furry chameleon like worm and are subterranean under the helmets.
@@cosmicironyproductions5087Other than the cost of the costumes, they were paid merely as extras, so that was obviously a big motivation for creating them.
@@ShannonFreng What was the motivation, the mystery of what they look like underneath?
Found it hilarious how a breen says 1 second of noise and weyoun extrapolates entire damn paragraphs from it! LMAO
Weyoun is a politician. Extracting lots of information from small phrases is his entire genetically-engineered purpose.
RIP Golden Gate Bridge 1937-2375
They fixed it almost immediately, it's not gone
I like that it shows the Dominion is unstable at the best of times even in strategy. An attack on Earth was always going to be thwarted even if it caused a lot of damage. The Federation alliance was fairly strong at this point in the war having the Romulans join them. The attack on Earth had no strategic or tactical objective beyond breaking the morale of Star Fleet. History shows those who preoccupy themselves with such frivolous stuff will always lose in the long run. War is about bullets and man power, not people and their feelings.
Loved martok and his back story. A man from lowly poor low caste family works himself up to a general and then chancellor.
That attack had tbd exact opposite effect the breen were hoping for. Instead of fear it filled many of us with a terrible resolve to inflict horrible punishments upon the dominion. I know I gave the order of no accepting surrenders and that every dominion ship was to be blown to pieces. We were especially brutal to the breen, as many of us lost friends in that attack we saw it as a way to make our enemies pay for the lives they took. For us it was truly give no quarter. Some of us wondered if we were being too dark, then all we had to do was see fleet HQ and we got pitch black.
the only good bug is a dead bug
Do you want to know more??@@RW77777777
Just like Buenos Aires
Xenos scum....
Fun fact, the Breen here were all played by tall stuntwomen.
No they weren't. The only breen played by a woman was that one in the internment camp several seasons earlier
@@JS-wp4gs Actually, yeah, they were. then again, DS9 had a fairnumber of tall Stuntwomen, given Nana Visitor and Terry Farrell are actually fairly tall. Not to mention all the female klingons.
and their high ranking military rank is a Thot
Now that you mention it I can totally see it!
Wgaf
The breen haven't been seen or mentioned since deep space nine which makes them the most mysterious species in the trekverse, I often wonder when the powers that be are gonna bring them back into the fold 🤔
They bring back nearly everything for that new Picard series ... and screw it up.
star trek online has a few missions about the breen confederacy.
They came from a far, far away galaxy a long, long time ago . . .
@@carlbruschnigjr1757 you botched it and said it backwards. Fail!
The modern writers/producers dont even know DS9 exists lol
Wayoun to the Cardassians: A victory perhaps, but a costly one.
Wayoun to the Breen: Brilliant!! Coffee and cake for everybody! 🥳
Federation can’t beat daft punk
Around the world, around the WORLD... Around the world, around the WORLD...
Damar has forgotten one important detail - the Breen never tried to exterminate the Founders the Cardassians did. Had Damar stuck around he would've been shocked when the Founder forgave the Breen for setbacks and/or blamed the Cardassians as always.
Starfleet must have had pretty poor defenses around their capital world.
Just make sure that no enemies show up whatsoever, and Mars Defense Perimeter sentry pods work just fine!
Well it appears to have been a suicide run with a handful of ships. Who knows how many ships actually reached the target area and how long they were shooting before they went down? This is the kind of mission that most militaries wouldn't attempt as it is not likely to achieve much for the near guaranteed loss of men and materiel.
Let's not forget the number of episodes/films in Star Trek where there's only one starship near Earth that's capable of handling a rather routine mission being the entire plot hook for the story.
The Breen only damaged a bridge and a couple of building. Star Trek ships can render a planet uninhabitable in mere moments. Most likely debris are the culprit for the damage, or the planetary shields act like ship-mounted ones and can let some energy pass through under heavy bombardment.
@@Spiz103 Well there was the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo in 1942. It provided an important boost to American morale. So the symbolic effect shouldn't be underestimated. Of course as you say the military value of such operations is very limited. So it usually does remain rare. But most of the time not because it would be suicidal it's usually simply not feasible.
The Breen are the one race the Borg fear.
A Breen once told me a joke, and when i asked him "how"? He just said: "Brghnyzzghzynrhzhng"
Considering how effective the Breen weapon was, I wonder if they could not have commited more forces to their assault or sent new waves of attack and cripple Earth in a more definitive way or at least for the diversion of enough forces to protect it that it would weaken considerably the war effort.
The Breen had nowhere near as many ships as the great powers. Even then, their ships were far inferior to Starfleet's. The secret weapon was extremely effective but the Federation fleets could still fight back, especially with enormous planetary defences helping them.
Bear in mind as well that at this point in the war, the Dominion fleets were still outnumbered, even with the Breen. They were in no position to mount any major long-term offensives.
@@Cailus3542 That makes sense. Thank you.
I think it was a distraction to turn them off the scent of their other ships moving with worf and Dax to Cardassia prime.
NOT THE BRIDGE!!! NOOOOOOOO
@1:00 THOSE EVIL BASTARDS HIT MY HOME TOWN!!!
I always wondered if my hometown even survived into the 24th century. I mean If Modesto could, I'm sure Stockton could.
@@mattboesch8907 Funny enough I was just in Modesto on my way to a camping trip. I'd say its teetering now, 100% not going to make it to the 24th century.
@@DavefromCA2023 well i mention modesto cause Brad Boimler from Lower Decks says hes from Modesto.
@@mattboesch8907 ahhh ok, i didnt watch that show
Martok:
"Every race has its weakness"
Dumar:
" Don't turn your back on Weyoun"
Ironic in a way
I do think its funny how they never let the audience know anything about the breen. We all saw in the beginning when the breen came the cardassians couldn't even understand them, but they got to and still the audience had no idea even in these episodes. Weyune even said, did you know their home world isn't a frozen waste land? And demar said, so why do they wear refrigeration suits/ And wayune said, see mysterious..
Just loyal followers that don’t question unlike the cardassians
That poor Golden Gate Bridge, it just keeps getting kicked in the sack. The Breen must really hate the landmarks
The Breen hit downtown Richmond...did earth a favor lol
I wonder if Nancy Pelosi was at home at the time (with husband Pauly P). She'll definitely live until 2375 the way things are going.
No way! Rememer when princess Leia dressed as bounty hunter and went to see jabba?
Nope.
The Breen are a badass species 😮
Jeffrey Combs has come a long way since making B-Movies for Full Moon Entertainment.
Umm what is princess Lea doing talking to Weyoun ?
Plotting the demise of humanity, apparently.
Dangit, typed mine then scrolled down... that is so lea!
The Federation has a poor defense system around their capital planet, Earth.
Starfleet probably prioritizes 2/3 of the fleet and manpower vs the Dominion force, the other 1/5 is probably at the Romulan Neutral Zone, in case the Romulans use this opportunity to attack the Federation Border,
the 10 percent could be the only Federation starships who are still exploring the vast Beta Quadrant, the 5 percent was send to protect every Federation member worlds and allies who are near to the Cardassian territory and probably only 1 or 2 starships are allocated to protect Earth and the Solar System
and those 2 starships could be an outdated Excelsior or Miranda class as most of the modern and combat starships like the Akira, Sovereign, Steamrunner, Intrepid and Defiant are on the frontlines of the war
The Enterprise E was supposedly part of Earth's defence fleet during the Dominion War and fought off the Breen
The idea was that this was an era when the Federation council was still ruled heavily by pacifist members. They advocated for no weapons at all, but finally agreed to only minimal defensive weapons to be installed on Earth and other member world planetary defense systems. Earth Spacedock, for example, could easily be a fortress, but the Federation council, and its leader at this time, Jaresh Inyo, refused. These intellectual pacifists had a gift for debate and would destroy anyone opposing them on the floor. It wasn't until after the Dominion war did sentiment change whereby the Federation became more militaristic in nature. They radically upgraded the Starfleet starships, made Earth Spacedock have more singular firepower than hundreds of the most powerful ships, and brought back the title of Commodore.
The Princess Leia race.
I caught that, too.
What if they all look like Princess Lea under their helmets?
"We struck fear in the heart of our enemy" no weyoun, all you did is piss em off.
I think the more important scene was The Breen General and Damar . Damar walked up ro him and basically said the Dominion wanted a free troop bolstering to throw lives at the Starfleet problem.
Scapegoat time.
Cardassian ... then Breen...
Also, that the Cardassians were under the thumb of the Dominion now and basically that would be the fate of the Breen.
The Breen attack force was nearly obliterated. "So few ships" made it back that the Breen ultimately lost and couldn't fully breach Earth's meager defenses.
The Dominion gave a fake pat on the back at good job you nearly got yourselves all killed and made an enemy of the Federation... now you're our pawn until the war is over, and then after you're ours because you're so weakened. Jem'Hadar will be all over your planet, "securing it" for Dominion "cooperation" (rule).
Would the Golden Gate Bridge still be standing with that much damage?
All those tachyon detection grids, advanced technology, and the Breen managed to park their ships, right in the Earth's orbit!🤭😁
It's mentioned in beta canon they planted agents in key facilities that sabotaged part of the defence grid I believe.
@@ShannonCarter55 yeah, you pretty much dont get close to earth unless you fight through everything else on the way, or you sabotage things. Even the romulans in the 2009 movie used pike to sneak past the Earth Defense Grid.
@@Timeward76 considering that we don't know in Alpha Canon what Breen actually look like, wouldn't put it past them that they can easily pass for other species known or allied to the Federation.
@@ShannonCarter55 given their recent allegiance to the dominion, its also possible a well placed changeling just did a well timed bit of sabotage to allow the breen fleets to sneak by at the right moment.
@@Timeward76 anything is possible. There's so little canon alpha and even beta to get a clear picture. Maybe a thread to pick up in Star Trek: Legacy?
"Even my people never attempted that."
Star Trek Discovery season 1 finale, it's a alternate timeline.
They attacked a Sol system starbase, not starfleet headquarters.
"Its, like, full on War against an actual enemy. Perhaps Roid up our defenses with Shields and stuff?"
I wonder if they did the Chewbacca style of acting for the Breen where the actors said what the dialogue was and the incomprehensible sound effect was added later.
JG Hertzler as Martok is simply the most Klingon of all Klingons. No one does a Klingon better. Certainly not Worf, who is a character that can best be described as a wigger of Klingons.
The Enterprise E was there at the time and helped fight off the Breen fleet
The problem with fighting Daft Punk is that you don't know who they are.
BREEN: Here's me saying something.
WEYOUN: Here's me repeating what you just said.
The MCU took after DS9 in this regard to dialogue.
WE are Breen
You mean, like R2 beebs something, and C3Po tells us what he said? MCU???? MCU did not invent this...
@@voxdraconia4035 It's a good job that I didn't say that, then.
Fans say the Enterprise can destroy a planet, Garak says the Defiant can eradicate the entire world of the Founders, yet here we see an alien fleet attacking Earth and doing as much damage as a few 21st century missiles.
Gee, isn't that convenient?
The biggest miscalculation by the Dominion was thinking that an attack on Earth would demoralize the Federation. But they didn’t count on the resolve of humanity.
Starfleet should have formed an alliance with the Breen, elbowing the Romulans out the picture.
Knowing what we know of the breen now, I assume they allied with the Dominion because of their preferred face. IYKYK
This attack was a sort of 9/11 for the Federation.
More akin to Doolittle Raid in Japan. UFP learn to not overstreatch itself. It prolonged the war, but after Dominion lost his shipyards and was put on his back foot defeat was unavoiable.
Princess Leigh wore one of those helmets to rescue Han Solo.
The picture shows the GG bridge, but the heat map of the bay area shows that Oakland seems to have gotten the worst of it...
At 1:07 you can see the eye and a bit of the face in the gap of helmet
Imagine breaking through the defences of the heart of the Federation and then doing less damage than a WW2 bomber.
sisko: i just lost a lot of friends.
martok: the breen are really good warriors.
typical klingon, i bet sisko wanted to punch him just then.
I think Sisko would know enough of Klingon customs that Martok was giving significant praise by his response. That is, they fought and died with honor against a powerful enemy.
@oldtwinsna8347 but sisko was also prone to let fly afterall he chewed out gowron when martok was in sickbay being treated after gowron ordered a pointless attack.
Pity about the bridge. They didn’t bother with the office blocks in SF though.
The Breen sound like my sump pump when they talk.
Boothby gunna be pissed.
That’s what the Japanese thought after Pearl and how did that end for them
So did they not use their energy dampening weapon for the attack on earth? Otherwise it wouldn’t have been a surprise at chintoka
The Klingons never tried that because they studied Earths history and saw what happened after Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
I can't not see the been as furries under the masks, they are perfectly shaped for an anthro with a long muzzle
"To launch an attack on Starfleet HQ ... even MY people never attempted that"
FF a couple of decades to STD where the Klingons were on Earth's doorstep by the end of the war... uh huh. Thanks Kurtzman for your diligent research and adherence to the lore.
Best to ignore STD, STDs after all aren't healthy for you. lol
@@Deepingmind considering that Season 3 and 4 made me hate Burnham (not the actress, she just acted with the poor material she was given) that I won't be surprised she's named Goddess of the Universe and We Must All Worship Her by the end of S5 then SNW used footage that showed Jan 6 protests started WW3 (along with outright xenophobia towards Illyrians despite Denobulans and other species being known to do augmentation - Earth has one bad era with augments and suddenly the entire Fed. does, sure.... - and making the Gorn into xenomorphs) so thats out. Only Picard (which has grown on me since S2 cleaned up the mess), Prodigy and Lower Decks (despite the vulgarity) have really worked.
What race/character did John Vickery play in this episode?
A Cardassian. He was the guy who helped Damar plan the attack on Rondack.
"We have struck far into the heart of our enemy and made them feel weak and vulnerable."
How to say you don't know much about humans without saying it.
That Vorta scum and his puppetmasters never understood humanity. They were so obsessed with everything aligning with their delusional, emotionless worldview, that they couldn't perceive of it being human nature to hit back harder after you've been struck on your own home turf.
The Dominion genuinely deserves to burn, but Starfleet are better people than that.
Klingons can be compassionate
You would think that after the last Klingon War, and two near Borg exursions they would build a planetary shield array or have static defenses...nope...not anyone huh.
It was a sneak attack. The Breen disguised their ships as freighters and then hijacked the North American defense grid and scrambled it. By the time Earth realized it it was too late.
So only The Borg, Breen and the Sphere Builders have managed to make it to Sector 001.
what is under that helmit i wonder?
Actors hehe
How did they forget to put a red dot on Sausalito?
How does starfleet not have a mass of orbital defense stations throught out the system?
Of course they did. The Breen attack was so swift and so powerful that they broke through it.
Remember, their target was only one region of one city out of the whole planet.
Or so it seemed. They may have been up to something else and used the attack on San Francisco as a smokescreen.
Still love that Gor there’s rank is “Thot”.
One Photon torpedo would have leveled the entire bay area worse than an H Bomb
The Breen:
Show up 3 episodes before the end of DS9.
Destroy Starfleet headquarters and almost single-handedly turn the tide of war in favor of the Dominion.
Refuse to elaborate.
Leave.
It didn’t occur to Sisko to form an alliance with the Breen instead of the Romulans.
0:01 Is anyone here really from San Francisco?
I have always wondered what is now at the location where Starfleet headquarters is supposed to be, one day. Based on the angel from where you can see the Golden Gate bridge, what is there?
In other words, to see the Golden Gate bridge when you look out that direction, where would you have to be standing? On what property?
Had to look it up since ST.TMP. Sits before Horseshoe bay.
@@NyuuMikuru1 What is "St. TMP"?
I have no idea what that means?
oh you poor innocent cinnamon bun
@@RW77777777 WELL, THEN TELL ME !!! 😭
I have only been to S California once in my life, and I live on the other side of the continent, so it is reasonable that would not know! 🤷♂️
@@TheNoiseySpectator Star Trek The Motion Picture.
I liked General Martok.
You didn't make fear you you made them mad big mistake
It stinks that these shows write themselves into a corner (Breen can kick Starfleet's butt) and then are forced to make them do something dumb (a useless raid using up most of their fleet against planetary defenses) to enable the good guys to win eventually. I mean, ok - if you are able to strike the planet, why is Earth still inhabitable? They simply tried to make the Breen appear tough but in fact made them appear incompetent. Breen motivation to take the Dominion's side was NEVER explained or justified.
People have to understand this was NOT starfleet HQ it was the academy! Which better way to strike fear into someone then to attack new blood. Starfleet HQ is a different location via the Golden gate bridge Look at TNG look at the old movies.
There are likely to be many, many, buildings housing Starfleet.
Weakness? They are one trick ponies. We got this great new weapon and you can't...oh, you compensated for it? Ah. I see. Well...
They attached earth, and the only scorn is " so few ships survived".. how did any ships survive? That showed how lacking earths defenses really were to an assault. And I thought breen don't retreat? So how did they survive and earth still lives? Earth has insane shields and orbital defenses, they even showed it in picard season 3 when the borg took over star trek vessels and it took a long time and a million photos and phaser blasts to take down the star base and the shield.
Picard was after the Domion war, after the battle of 001, after Shinzon. The federation, Earth for that matter, was still a nation at peace. Like America before Pearl Harbor. After this the federation had to get more defenses and ships. Thats when the peacekeepers had to become soldiers
Earth did NOT have insane shields and orbital defenses. Just the opposite. The Federation council did not allow Earth to build up its weaponry platform because they were ruled by pacifists from the early 24rd century that saw peace in the Federation for decades on end. This is why Admiral Leyton wanted to seize control and institute martial law, as he felt alien members had no business dictating what Earth could or could not do in a time of crisis. Earth Spacedock, for instance, only had minimal weapons, artificially imposed. It wasn't until the decades after the war we saw a dramatic shift in posture of Earth defenses, as seen in the Picard series.
not sure if you watched the last season of picard, in the final episode I think it was, earth's star base had one epic space battle. The visual of hundreds of ships firing photons at the station non stop with phasers hitting it. And they said the station will only hold out for another 40 minutes! wtf man. Guess earth improved its defenses after dominion war? @@oldtwinsna8347
Is it just me or are the breen the same race as boushh
So what happened to all the planetary defenses??
Took out most of the Breen fleet alongside Starfleet. Damar did mention that very few of their ships survived.
Breen had the weapon they used in the next battle. Why didnt they just launch a full scale attack on earth using that weapon and take earth. While the Dominion and Cardassia attack the Chin'Toka and flood to DS9. I full on bold move could pushed the Federation in mass retreat and huge loss moral wise.