"normalization of homosexuality" doesn't kill intimate male friendships, homophobia does. it's homophobia that says men shouldn't express affection to each other, whether it's platonic or romantic. normalizing being gay also frees men to just be close with one another without fear of judgement. and while we're at it, acknowledging that men can have emotions besides rage and lust would also help.
I am glad that I never had to deal with that since I am a girl. But yes, queer people can also just have platonic bonds with others of the same gender. I am a lesbian and have a very fulfilling friendship with a straight girl. I wish it could just be that way for everyone.
Also as a lesbian, the normalization of homosexuality just allowed me to have more intimate friendships with guys without (too many) people questioning our friendships.
"Hmm... these two men lived together without any female company, sold baked goods, and owned many animals. They even requested to be buried side by side." Historians from most generations: "These men seem like they were such good friends!" Millennial Historians: "Might be gay. Might be friends. Who cares. They are dead. Woo." Gen Z Historians: "Those dudes were 100% gay. No doubt about it. Very gay. So super gay. Extremely gay. Or at least bi." LGBTQIA+ Millenial Historians: "Oh, these guys are like us. Probably. I mean, they seem pretty gay, but they might not be." LGBTQIA+ Gen Z Historians: "Okay, so these guys are 100% not straight. My gaydar is going off so much that it would be impossible. My dead gays! Or bisexuals/biromantics! Maybe pansexual, panromantic, omnisexual, or omniromantics! Perhaps they were asexuals! Who knows! Awesome, my dudes."
Daddy's roommate is a German children's book about a kid who's mother and father split, and his father remarried another man. It's a very sweet little book.
@@kaworunagisa4009 It's definitely enough, it's super simple German. Papa's Freund or something, and the boyfriend is a Freddie Mercury looking guy named Frank
Yeahhh, I realised that too but it's still really funny 😂 Also, true! The sims is very affirming, even in sims 3 already sims will be attracted to anyone, no matter what gender. Basically all sims are pan, lol.
good guess. “lovely lord” was actually the not-very-euphemistic term for a king’s male concubine (real or just suspected) in early medieval England. It wasn’t intended to be complementary though…the word “lovely” had a rather less sfw meaning back then. But, some of the young men so described nevertheless wore the title with pride (presumably the ones actually banging the King). It got thrown around a lot though, because basically lords used it as an all-purpose way to insult each others’ kids/taunt them into arranged marriages.
Do it. I would read that book, and I bet ya a lot of the boys who are confused and are looking for a book to help them understand would need it. Also, it sounds fun.
Also the Thebes one was an army of homosexual lovers, they were deliberately assembled because they were lovers and thus fight harder to protect each other and work together. That's why that guy went off on a "they're just good friends" rant lol
yep, them being lovers was like…the fucking point. The Greek gov’t however is extremely homophobic and don’t want to admit there was ANYTHING gay about their history. The entire rest of the world is just “lol, looks pretty gay to me bro”.
@@golwenlothlindel nah the greeks werent homophobic, most of greece actually had some form of institutionalised gay. In Athens men often had multiple partners of both genders while in Sparta men and women had gay relationships. It however was erased from historical texts by monks and priests because otherwise the Catholic church would have destroyed it :>
I'm both ashamed and proud. As far as I've seen, no one realized at 12:42 it says "achilles, FINGERING his sword" and then "Patroclus for his friend and sword-companion". Am I the only one to find it funny?
Fun fact about history, it’s very gay The romans were gay, the Greeks were gay, the Russians were gay, the Chinese were gay, it’s a miracle that the rest of the world handled such pushback with birth rates
There's old church records that seem to indicate that the Christian/Catholic Church married same gender couples in the past, so... But the main Biblical verse that's used to demonize gay people was actually condemning people who sexually abused children, so... the Church covering up stuff isn't exactly news.
For the record, "men without female sex partners" does not automatically mean "gay men." Asexual people exist, and besides that, it is also perfectly acceptable to be straight and just never have a romantic/sexual partner
Yeah, but I think the point is that they assumed that males with no female sexual partners = male virgins. The article seems to be that abstinence in men is increasing which might not be the case if their data collection is skewed So yes, some of them will be not gay men, but the point is that the group should be considered before making conclusions
This. I'm not gay, but I'd be pretty happy never getting into a relationship and instead spending my time with my male friends. I wouldn't be opposed to living with one for most of my life. That doesn't make me gay, because I know I don't feel anything sexual towards them. It's the same way I'd have no problem living with my brother my whole life. Gay acceptance is good but it's sometimes frustrating to see people ignore that non-sexual, non-romantic, but still powerful and important relationships exist.
@@ApeniGirl yeah but that's not the way they phrase it. Without fail, they always state it as a FACT that they must be gay, and there's NO other alternative
the best thing about these subreddits is learning about notable people that were gay. Pretty much all the history I ever learned in school up to this point was basically "everyone was straight, even if they were gay. We do not talk about the gay."
I had no idea what homosexuality was until I got into college and finally realized why I was never attracted to boys and had girl crushes. I was a lesbian, but I had no idea what that was at the time. School needs to step it up...having a person be as confused and hurt and I am for nearly 20 years of my life is not okay.
I got into classical mythology because it was the only place where homosexual relationships seemed normal. I felt like the characters and the people were as close to being my people as I could find. Imagine my joy of these last few years! My people are appearing around every bend! And they aren't treating women as property!
I think you just assumed all of them were straight because it's the default. Because i'm pretty sure they don't teach us about historical figures sexual preferences, because why would they? What will we gain from learning about such things?
@Will westland learning about those things can help to fight against misconceptions that being gay is new and also provide comfort to LGBT+ students who fee alone/weird because of their identity.
So _this_ is where all of the missing posts on /r/sapphoandherfriend about male 'roommates' are... I'm happy this exists, thank you for bringing it to my attention OT :)
Wait... I had a thought... does this open up for "accidentally gay" in literature? Like the author didn't intend to make them a gay couple but by making them "really good friends and roommates" kinda made them gay anyway? For example, LOTR. Gimli and Legolas became really good friends. So much so that they spent the next 100 years of Gimli's life together, cofounded a city together, went on numerous adventures together, and were so close that they couldn't bear to be parted by death so Legolas snuck Gimli into the Gray Havens with him (which was forbidden). I am pretty sure that Tolkien intended it to be "nohomo", but it kinda reads as "roommates". Is it possible that Tolkien was inadvertently influenced by the time period and other "roommates" that he actually thought were roommates and so included one in his books not knowing the subtext? He just thought it was a great bromance or something. Might be a stretch, but it would be interesting if there was any kind of literary impact as a result of lifelong "roommates" being labeled as such and not being recognized for the truth.
OK. I ship those two very much together so what I say may sound like excuses to validate this ship but, but-! hear me out: I'm pretty sure Tolkien studied Irish and Nordic folklore as his stories has ties to some of them and he was a teacher who specialises in language, (There is a movie about his life) And, I'm pretty sure he has enough sufficient research of queer history and folklore that he gleaned while doing research. So I think this could have some merit.
In my opinion, it's more likely Tolkien intended them to be seen as a couple, but was just trying to be subtle about it. There's a short passage in The Silmarillion where he explains the genders of the Valar in a way that could very easily be interpreted to validate trans people. I believe Tolkien was supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, just in a very discreet manner
It's not a bad read, though I'm not sure if I share it. Didn't Tolkien talk about how the male relationships were supposed to mirror the "battle brothers" relationships he witnessed in WW1/2 (I'm dumb and don't remember which). That obviously doesn't exclude a romantic reading, but is worth considering. Though I'm prone to misreading romantic relationships as platonic A LOT.
Unfortunately, for that time period, any switching would have so effected their social credit that the chances of their being celebrated as legendary heroes would have likely been entirely off the table. In historical context, they would have needed to at least _present_ as a set pitcher/catcher dynamic.
For some reason the concept of someone laying naked on a nude beach but still wearing a mask because of COVID is hilarious. It's just got stripper bow tie vibes XD
Personally I would have said a moose came out the water and spooked us, but a deer works. I believe new south Wales is around where moose dive for food and seeing one come up on the beach would make me at least partially happy I'm not wearing pants.
Ok, so at my highschool, the most traditional of traditional studies school in town, the teachers didn’t even try to hide historical homosexuals, they straight went to the Top/Bottom debate about Achilles and Patroclus. My teacher was of the current that said Achilles was the bottom.
I didnt realize that was a real debate. Achilles was the stronger, more athletic and had higher social status. I always assumed he would be the dominant one. On the other hand, most marines that I have met were bottoms.
I love it when people realize that the real endings of most fairy tails are dark because in Germany we grow up with all these sad and brutal stories. I cried every single time my grandma read the little mermaid to me and was so confused when I watched the Disney one
I grew up from my parents reading me stories and watching movies and Barbie and those moments have a large impact in my life and who I am as a person.... I truly loved those days and it was what helped me think I want to tell and write stories too and show people that even so.... It must've been hard for you. I have had good memories but the stories with sad and brutal endings I was shown and even though it hurt back when I was young, it made me try to be more understanding and emphatic towards others. So, I hope you don't hate those stories. As someone who grew up from the good and bad and loving stories I have no right to dictate how you should feel or live. But I still want to give you this. That what you see and heard and felt are all magical. Whether it was dark or light. And that stories have magic in them. It's just not visible but it is felt.
We were watching a biography for class yesterday. “He explored his sexuality and found a preference for other men” “His best friend and roommate, who lived together for many years” “His best friend stayed by his side forever” “His roommate” Like WTF, just say they were partners already!
Aha, yes. The coveted "these two men are alone in this room kissing each other and have announced their upcoming marriage but I see nobody for them to marry!" Classic erasure. Chef's kiss. And who could forget "this room is full of very confidently masculine men all having intimate activities with one another but there's no way a single one of them are much more than mere roommates." Exquisite. Blissfully ignorant to the fact that homosexuality has existed as long as sexual dichotomy. Unaware that the many instances of their gay best friends were, in fact, their gay best friends actually just being gay for each other. Divine. Aged like wine. Someone bury me with a phallic object in my pelvic bones and place a dirtied note with my grave stating "I loved it so much, I had it petrified before my demise so I could have it rock hard for eternity" or something like that. I don't know. Just do something funny. Confetti canon in my ribcage that activates upon the opening of my coffin. Make it obvious I was gay because heteros have no sense of humor. Legally I must make a disclaimer that this is a joke in its entirety or I may actually be fined for popping comedic remarks at the expense of heterosexuals. Don't sue me I'll bless everyone in your life except you and you will be the only person in your circle of close companions and family who does not own a Porsche in their lifetime. If you've actually read this entire essay of a stupid comment, congratulations, you have my interest. I, a gay transmasculine gremlin.
I am a gay transmasculine goblin/gremlin, my friend group hasn't decided yet on which to call me. This comment is amazing by the way, I also kinda wanna do this except I was gonna eat a bunch of popcorn kernels and get cremated :)
I did. It looked long and boring but I ended up reading it anyway. And I have no regrets reading it. Cus your words have peaked my interest. 👍😏✨ From your friendly neighbourhood bi Also there's a lot of bi people in your comment section. It seems to me you have garnered the bi's interests.
Fun fact: Achilles requested his and Patrocolis's ashes be intermingled after their death( which is like, totally just friendship) Btw if youre wondering, yes, their comrades did listen and mix their ashes.
So they could be together forever Ahh that I felt that in my soul, which is saying a lot because I often question if I actually have one. Definitely just friends, very close friends yes yes.
Just a fun note on history, sexuality was not typically seen as discretely just gay or just straight. Sex was seen as a form of social bonding in addition to a way to reproduce in societies from ancient Mesopotamia, to Japan up to the westernization in the Meiji era, to ancient Greece, and more! I wonder if, in times where populations were not so enormous, it was easier to be seen as an individual rather than an assemblage of categories of identity, which may have allowed different sexualities to be seen as mere genital preference. Unfortunately, older religions/societies tend to have customs painted as taboo and evil by newer competing religions, as we see with much of what has lead to modern homophobia and transphobia. I honestly wonder if most of us are a little bit bi/pan, but internalized homophobia prevents many from recognizing it (thus I kiss you but nohomo). Especially, given that physical sexual attraction, aesthetic attraction, romantic attraction, and emotional attraction are not necessarily linked/not always set to the same gender, and are not binary, thus you can like looking at all butts, jack-off to your homies, but only want to marry a woman.
That is absolutely true. Studies of open minded internet spaces that aren't explicitly "for the LGBT" point to the reality that sexuality absolutely is a bell curve, 25% straight, 50% on the spectrum of bi, 25% gay.
@@machinerin151 Also see: Kinsey Scale, a rating of 1-6 for an individual's preference between people of the same and opposing sex. Created in 1948 by Doctors Alfred Kinsey and Clyde Martin. There were 7 ratings on the scale: 0 being "exclusively heterosexual," 6 being "exclusively homosexual," and X (the 7th rating) meaning "no socio-sexual contacts or relations." It was found that the majority of people rank between 1 and 5, having differing levels of preference between same and opposite sex individuals.
You’re right. But then I remember how sexist Ancient Greeks were and it gets disheartening. In the words of Red they were cool about a lot of stuff but women wasn’t one of them. I think Romans weren’t as sexist.
@@moondivine2288 If I remember correctly you might be right that Romans were not as sexist, might have taken quite a lot from the Etruschian culture, who should've respected women a lot.
@@moondivine2288 If you were a woman in Sparta who survived the likely possibility of being left out in the wilderness to die as a newborn infant, you could own property and learn profitable skills and other cool things. Women had way more rights in Sparta than in the rest of ancient Greece, but it still wasn't much by today's standards
Another day of random facts for OT because he wants random facts from *at least* 12 feet away 1) The hashtag symbol is actually called an octothorpe. The octo-" prefix refers to the 8 points on the figure. "Thorpe" is kind of a mystery 2) The unicorn is the national animal of Scotland. It was chosen for its association with dominance and chivalry in Celtic mythology.
That Macbeth story is just AWESOME... I wouldn't mind when in the end they both really just played their rolls... But damn, those guys are totally asking to ship them together!!
On one hand, I suppose we need to let men be comfortably affectionate with each other without assuming they're together. On the other hand, we should also let men date each other without assuming they're just "bros". It's a tough one.
I mean, if a man and a woman are friends and someone thinks they're dating, as long as they don't keep pushing it after they've been corrected, it's not seen as a big deal. It can be hard to tell a close friendship and a romantic relationship apart from an outside perspective, and that's the case no matter the sexes of those involved
@@lemmetalkaboutthis They started trying to find out the nature of their relationship and ended up arguing about who was on top and who was bottom. It's great.
And some people still saying that Chopin was talking in his letters to Tytus about FRIENDSHIP. I read those letters in orginal IT'S SO VERY GAE. Bet the same people would say that Maria Konopnicka was completely straight even tho she left her husband and kids to live with another women for the rest of her life
@@ilovepancakes2545 basically, some bad stuff happens and macbeth wants revenge but then he doesn't and Lady Macbeth manipulates him to get revenge and do some other bad stuff anyway. macbeth ends up not-alive bc of it
I would definitely cry when they find out how the play ends... Let's hope the teacher changes the scripts, or I'm going to need to stuck up on comfort foods
Just want to mention, “The Incredibles” screenshot isn’t from the actual film, but it was part of the special features. It was a sub menu dossier for the superheroes including voice clips. Having said that, Thunderhead’s clip sounded like a large, teddy bear type of man.
John Laurens and Alexander Hamilton fit here perfectly. The letters they sent each other were so clearly gay, but the amount of straights I've seen online that have straight up been like "THEY WEREN'T GAY ALEXANDER MARRIED A WOMAN STOP DISRESPECTING AN IMPORTANT HISTORY FIGURE." as if a bi dude was unheard of.
@@supergabee True but it wasn't unnatural for men to have intimate time with multiple people at once. As long as a woman was involved they could get away with stuff like that. Hamilton and Laurens were both involved in stuff like this. So we're alot of others from that time.
Not to mention Fredrick the Great. Just look at the comments on the video "Frederick the Great: Gay King of Europe" by EmperorTigerstar, it's full of homophobes. (I'd link you the video but I don't think TH-cam gives alerts for comments with links in them.)
Has OT played Hades yet? If not, that is a missed opportunity and a half, especially because of Achilles and Patroclus' are shown to be -lovers- good pals and it's wondeful.
@@actone4822 of course :) unfortunately I lost most of my games so the only ones I have left are Pandora's box and Lost/Unwound Future. I agree, that one definitely hits right in the feels
@@dandeleyeon Yeah, it would be nice if they could release a collection on modern hardware so it could get a revival in popularity similar to Ace Attorney. Every time I think I'll make it through UF's ending just fine, and then Layton tears up and takes off his hat and I just bawl.
Fun fact: everything had a power dynamic in ancient greece. Ppl didn’t discriminate by who’s doing who, but by who was top. Ancient Greece still wasn’t that great unfortunately.
True, homosexual relationships were considered only ok if you were the person doing the penetrating. Being on the receiving was considered emasculating.
YES! Someone else who knows this! Greco-Roman culture said "Yeah you can screw people of the same gender as you. Just don't be topped by the _lower class."_
I recall learning in art history that there was an issue of young men from wealthy families newly introduced to high society getting mixed up with older more experienced men and being the bottom, thus being disgraceful. so they started to recommend that young men of means had chaperones to keep the older men in their circles from looking disrespectfully and making a bottom out of their young aristocrat.
@@jameslowe4031 Pronouns don't always equal gender. Cis people can use they/them as well as their gender's pronouns too. And, it's possible that the people using they/them for OT don't know OT's pronouns and is using they/them just in case! That's also perfectly valid
@@jameslowe4031 I'm not sure about everyone else but I just use they/them because if OT dose come out and change their pronouns i wouldn't actually use the wrong pronouns on accident since thay them is all inclusive (hope this helped 💜)
17:07 I had a friend who dressed up as a bride for our class's Halloween theater show and it was hilarious. They were both totally straight but the bride was a class clown and didn't mind getting "married" to a guy just for some laughs. And it worked. We all had great time. I'm kinda nostalgic now, gotta go ask my old classmates if somebody still has the video
I'm pretty sure I read about concepts like this before. On different occasions and in different contexts. I'm pretty sure one was that pirates had a thing where two dudes could be Mates (capital 'M'!) and shared everything. I'm also pretty sure I've read about it in the context of fighters/soldiers/knights but I don't remember the temporal and cultural context.
there was a catholic ceremony of "brothership" during the Middle Ages, in which a same sex couple would "share one purse, one cup and one plate" or something along those lines. Of course, historians argue it was completely platonic and was only about joining their finances.
there was i think pirates who had a thing called embrotherment where they shared all their posessions and lived together and stuff. is that what youre thinking of?
As someone who studies history and works with several people in historical study, historians now are all super gay/supportive and see every historical roomates as partners. So the idea that historians not seeing the gay is no longer true, mostly there are probably a couple but we don't talk about them!
Yeah, a lot of that, "…and they were roommates," stuff comes from the 19th Century, where the "historians" went out of their way to wallpaper over anything they didn't like and "correct" the inconvenient facts. The myth about Columbus trying to convince superstitious sailors that the Earth is round is one such lie. Sailors for millennia knew that the Earth is round. They saw it every time they left port. And sometimes the navigators even knew the rough size of the Earth, since, like, plotting a course by the stars kinda requires that. But the Victorians thought _all sailors_ were "filthy, ignorant scum from the lowest strata of society" - couldn't let the facts get in the way of their class-driven hate, now, could they! The _real_ reason nobody wanted to go with Columbus is that the idiot insisted that the Earth was only ½ to ⅔ its actual circumference. Every captain and his crew knew that the Earth was waaaaay bigger than that idiot Columbus was claiming, and didn't want to die of dehydration in the middle of "The World Ocean" that they thought was the only thing westward of Europe all the way to Asia. Or to put it differently, imagine that the American continents weren't there and in their place was nothing but ocean. Imagine now being told to sail through that empty expanse, with nowhere to stop and trade for supplies. Is it any wonder nobody wanted to do that?
I think the problem is most of the books people read were written by an older generation of historians, and people like teachers don’t bother to update them since what happened was far before their time.
The user named Giornosdad :"Oh he's just doing it for the hype" As a Jojo's fan, I would expect other Jojo's fans to accept that not everything is entirely heterosexual.
plus did he just forget about both gay couples in part five, the two dessert gay bois who were killed and the shark boi with tongue boi on the rooftop, two gay af couples in the mafia xD not to mention the tons of other just gayness and bi dio
It is really hilarious that there are still people who think that Achilles was not bi and in a relationship ship with Patroklos and Briseis. And he cared about both of them and tried to protect them. What in both cases did not really work well and ended with his death. I always saw Achilles as polygamous and as a loyal lover. How could anyone oversee this?
At least for the greek one I can assure you it is 100% our school system's fault we are taught the Iliad in middle school as a standard class and we are repeatedly told that they were friends.
@@ΒλάσιοςΚαρπούζης that is such a pity. I thought especially in Greece they would teach it in the way, Homer described them. Achilles became crazy because he couldn't handle Patroklos death. It is so obvious that they loved each other.
@@triloization i wish that was the case, but the same people that want our traditions and heritage to pass on are the ones that don't want these parts of our civilization to exist, i also want to clarify here that we only study certain parts of the Iliad
Chopin has also hit me in the feels, OT. Especially because I spent hours last night rediscovering the secret stack of unrequited gay love poems I wrote a couple of years ago. The furtive secrecy of gay feelings resonates down the ages. 😢
Wait isn't the River Styx from Roman mythology wasn't Achilles from Greece ya know the country that probably dispised the Romans the most if you don't count the Germanic and Celtic tribes (fun fact Scotland was the only place the Romans attempted to invade but were repelled and Hadrians Wall was built because the Romans were terrified of the Celtic tribes there that fear continued throughout the centuries during WW1 Scots serving in the British army were some of the most respected and most feared soldiers the Germans nicknamed them the ladies from hell because they wore kilts into battle and fought like devils)
Probably an unpopular opinion, but as a queer classicist who has specifically researched homosexuality in Ancient Greece and Rome, the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The quote about Patroclus' thighs is not from Homer, but supposedly from a lost play by Aeschylus (would need more digging to check the Greek text because I know the Internet sometimes spreads quotes that don't exist). The fact of the matter is that Homer's portrayal of their relationship is ambiguous. It's possible that they were queer, but people seem to forget that the thing that started the whole conflict of the Iliad is that Achilles is forced to give up his female slave Briseis to Agamemnon. He even canonically falls in love with an Amazonian queen before he kills her. Now, I don't know Homer by heart and I'd need to check the text for this, but if I'm not mistaken, Homer actually says Patroclus is somehow related to Achilles. In any case, Patroclus ended up at Peleus' court because he had to flee his home country after having accidentally killed someone. However, I'm not one to claim that Achilles and Patroclus were definitely just friends and I don't think it matters either because there are enough examples from antiquity that are unambiguously queer. The Iliad is a piece of literature, which means it's up to interpretation and several interpretations are possible, as has been shown by history. Even in antiquity, people discussed whether Achilles and Patroclus were lovers or friends and obviously, some said they were lovers, as proven by some pieces of art and literature. In antiquity, their relationship also had to fit into the frame of pederasty, which meant there had to be an age and power difference and it actually truly mattered who was top and who was bottom because being the bottom was considered emasculating, feminine and weak, so only considered okay for teens and slaves. Yes, antiquity was more accepting than the Christian Middle Ages, but it was far from a gay paradise because social stigma still existed if you didn't follow the norms. So in some things from antiquity, they are more explicitly portrayed as lovers, in others, they are just friends, and I don't think that has to be a bad thing, even though queer history is often erased. There's nothing wrong with choosing to interpret Homer in a way that their relationship is platonic, but please don't claim either one is the only possible interpretation. I know the "historical context" is often used as an excuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter anymore. (I still need to do more research about homo-erotic symbolism in antiquity, so I might change my opinion in the future, but based on my current knowledge, I don't find any argument about Homer's Achilles and Patroclus convincing.) If you want an explicitly queer text from antiquity, read Plato's Symposium. Not only does that feature a (pederastic) couple that truly existed, but it also features one of the most famous myths about the origin of the different sexualities (with bi erasure, but you can't have everything). Only thing to keep in mind is that Plato is the reason we speak about "platonic" love and he considered everything that had to do with the flesh bad (you can see where Christianity got their inspiration).
As an aroace classics nerd, thank you for talking about this! My high school teachers for Latin and Ancient Greek spent quite some time explaining sexuality and culture in ancient history to us- we even had to write an essay on sexuality depicted in different stories and read Sappho- but not once did we discuss the relationship between Achilles and Patrokles when reading the Illiad as it simply was not the main topic of the story. And because I related to Achilles being willing to die for a friend (or lover), it annoys me that they are seen as the token example of homosexuality in Ancient Greek, so much even that I've started to dislike the story. It's also a shame that people decide to focus on the relationship of two fictional characters as an example of homosexuality in history when there are canon examples of homosexuality, such as emperor Hadrian who was known to sleep with men and had a boyfriend of whom he made a statue because he was so upset when he was killed
@@Alicia-zf3nq Exactly! I never explicitly learned about Achilles and Patroclus in any of my classes, but I did a research paper on homosexuality in Ancient Greece and some of my readings touched on it and I have a classmate who specifically did a research paper on Achilles and Patroclus. I've also read a decent number of texts with clear subtext and we WERE taught about that subtext, so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about, but it frustrates me how some people seem to take The Song of Achilles as completely true to Homer when it's just a valid creative retelling. And as a fellow ace and possibly aro-spec, it also frustrates me how some people basically devalue friendship in their argumentation and push the idea that friends can't be willing to die for each other or love each other more than anything in the world. So I'm very happy whenever people are willing to consider that there might be better queer icons in antiquity than Achilles and Patroclus.
Ty for sharing this info and your thoughts. I appreciate your dedication to forthrightness and accuracy, even if that means Achilles and Patroclus might not have been written as the couple people hope for.
@@33melonpaws77 Yeah, I get why people want them to be a couple because we've had to fight so hard against erasure and still do so every day, but I think it's more important to acknowledge the ambiguity of Homer's text. It's still valid to interpret them as a couple, but it's not less valid to say they were best friends. And we can find other queer icons. There's certainly no lack of those, even if people tried to erase them (like Sappho or the emperor Hadrian).
Yeah it is a difficult thing to deal with partly because we have to deal with the fact that different cultures will often remove the idea of homosexual relationships but there may also be relations within different cultures that are distinct from our own culture that we may be tempted to classify as homosexual are considered their own thing within their culture. A similar thing comes up with transgender people in the past. We have to acknowledge and should be sure there was legitimitate transgender people as we see them today in ancient times, but(and this adds a whole nother layer) different cultures had different gender forms especially in their mythology. It might not be accurate to describe that person as transgender even in the sense of representing the culture or even that indivual experince. Some of them might even be more genderfluid or simply a gender understanding unique to that culture. We sometimes forgot that ancient history exists in a different culture than we do and we may legitmatily be reading into behaviors without understanding context and just taking in how those modern day people would intiatite modern day relationships when ancient culture even in lgbtq relationships may be intiated differentily. Definitely something that is tought to balance.
Historians now with The Iliad: Ah, Achilles and Patroclus, what a great and the tragic story about war and brotherhood. Plato and every single Greek back then: they were so In love bro Me as a Greek studying Greek mythology: *GAY*
That last post was real hecking cute and silly. Honestly, if the story of Macbeth was a story like theirs, I would be all over that story...also, what a way to experiment with the gay side.
I started watching OT a couple of months ago, and my mom liked Reddit videos so I recommended this channel to her. We now watch these videos together all the time. She loves how wholesome he can be.
Hey OT, I know you said you read the comments, so I just want you to know: you are so kind. You laugh and make the world a little lighter, but you’re not afraid to talk serious when it’s needed. True kindness is sadly rare in this world, but you express it. Thank you. Thank you for being kind.
I just want to say: true kindness isn't as rare as you think! I'm sorry if you don't have a supportive network of friends and family, but trust me, there are *many* kind people out there you can befriend :)
Nerd flying in! "Retcon", often verbed into "retconning", is a term usually used to refer to works of fiction. Literally, "retroactive continuity"; refers to when a writer or fanbase adds a justification or bit of story into a piece of a story that is already over. Think the edits George Lucas did to Star Wars, or that thing JK Rowling does. Applying a term like that to real life is silly on the face of it, imo; especially because an applicable term exists, in historical revisionism.
Oh lord, that Macbeth section had me smiling like a loon! If you find out how it ends, OT, then please tell us?? Regardless, thank you for being amazing!!!!
@@Mystery-Wolf same ,I mean there is that one guy who jokes with his friends in ways that could be taken wrong ......me and my bff are suspicious tho ....
@@akiza16 oh they remind me of two besties I knew in middle school. don't know if they were actually bi (both had gfs) or were just fooling around, but there was at least one kiss involved :D
@@Jane-oz7pp well actually there’s a lot of things love can’t overcome. If people are too opposite, for example have different moral values it will be near impossible for a romance to work out. That’s why Catra and other ships where the hero falls for the villain, the villain ends up being redeemed. I also don’t see skelator wanting romance.
@@moondivine2288 Maybe he-man is unknowingly fighting for the wrong side, and gets to know the enemy and eventually realizes he’s on the wrong side. Maybe skeletor never really wanted to fight, and just did it out of peer pressure or something. There’s a bunch of ways to make it work.
@@monkewithinternetaccess6107 wait…..are you a goog omens fans? Nice. I love the series and book. Still that story is unique to good omens. It won’t be great if he man coped good omens plot line. It will also make Skeletor OCC. some of the clips I saw was Skeletor being unapologetically evil. And that was my point in my original comment. It’s good seeing a well written villain. Maybe because I’m ace but I’m not big on changing someone’s personality to make a ship work.
Okay that "Are you in love" "I agree" audio is from one of my favourite fucking movie scenes I've ever gottdayum seen and that movie is, I shit you not, STORKS. The movie itself is decent, not a bad way to burn ninety minutes, but that scene specifically gives me LIFE
OT continuously being at the very top of my watch list when I'm drawing art is the best, it's so easy to listen to and draw at the same time (something I struggle with as someone with sensory issues)
I saw the lady Macbeth post like 4 years back and I’ve still been wondering how it ended in that class. If there was ever another update to the original that anyone knows of PLEASE let me know
Let me know your subreddit recommendations! I promise that I’ll think they’re real this time 💜
Even though sometimes they aren’t… haha
Have a great day OT! :)
r/OneTopicAtATime is a lot of fun on the second channel 💜
Can you do r/nonbinary again? 💜 if you can't get to it soon I understand!
can you do r/enby or r/nonbinary again?
Hellsome memes! Hellsome memes! Hellsome memes!
Pls🙂
"normalization of homosexuality" doesn't kill intimate male friendships, homophobia does. it's homophobia that says men shouldn't express affection to each other, whether it's platonic or romantic. normalizing being gay also frees men to just be close with one another without fear of judgement. and while we're at it, acknowledging that men can have emotions besides rage and lust would also help.
Yes AND gay, bi, and pan men can still have meaningful platonic friendships with other men.
I am glad that I never had to deal with that since I am a girl. But yes, queer people can also just have platonic bonds with others of the same gender. I am a lesbian and have a very fulfilling friendship with a straight girl. I wish it could just be that way for everyone.
Also as a lesbian, the normalization of homosexuality just allowed me to have more intimate friendships with guys without (too many) people questioning our friendships.
Here it is something different, I am an asexual woman and even with that I cannot hold my friends by the hand because others would think I am gay
@@canela4580 thats very rude of the world. U deserve sum hold hand.
Historians from any other Generation: "They were _really_ good friends."
Gen-Z as Historians: "They were _SOOOOO_ GAY! It's _obvious_ they were Gay!"
@Ñ Please do, I will read ALL of your reports. 🤣
@Ñ make sure you return here to share all your discoveries :D
Welcome to the amrev community where *everyone is gay*
@Alexis Zogg P L E A S E 🤣🤣
"Hmm... these two men lived together without any female company, sold baked goods, and owned many animals. They even requested to be buried side by side."
Historians from most generations: "These men seem like they were such good friends!"
Millennial Historians: "Might be gay. Might be friends. Who cares. They are dead. Woo."
Gen Z Historians: "Those dudes were 100% gay. No doubt about it. Very gay. So super gay. Extremely gay. Or at least bi."
LGBTQIA+ Millenial Historians: "Oh, these guys are like us. Probably. I mean, they seem pretty gay, but they might not be."
LGBTQIA+ Gen Z Historians: "Okay, so these guys are 100% not straight. My gaydar is going off so much that it would be impossible. My dead gays! Or bisexuals/biromantics! Maybe pansexual, panromantic, omnisexual, or omniromantics! Perhaps they were asexuals! Who knows! Awesome, my dudes."
Daddy's roommate is a German children's book about a kid who's mother and father split, and his father remarried another man. It's a very sweet little book.
What's it called in German, and is it possible to find it for free? I wonder if my between A1 and A2 German would be enough to understand it...
@@kaworunagisa4009 Ooh yeah I want to read it in german too! :0
@@Catsgirl32 Looked it up. Wikipedia says that it's American, not German ((
@@kaworunagisa4009 It's definitely enough, it's super simple German. Papa's Freund or something, and the boyfriend is a Freddie Mercury looking guy named Frank
@@kaworunagisa4009 Awe sadd, oh well english is fine too ig
Just for anyone who isn't a Sims player: "bro" is a personality trait, it's not them calling the boyfriend a bro. The Sims is highly LGBTQ+ affirming.
It's still funny
Yeahhh, I realised that too but it's still really funny 😂
Also, true! The sims is very affirming, even in sims 3 already sims will be attracted to anyone, no matter what gender. Basically all sims are pan, lol.
Ikr? Freaking love the Sims. The fact that gender is customizable alone is simply groundbreaking
When I was little I made two male sims kiss
I was a gay kid and didn't know
Yeah it was still funny tho😂
"Lovely Lords" sounds like old-timey, euphemistic slang for a gay couple...so much so, that I kind of want to use it in a book.
good guess. “lovely lord” was actually the not-very-euphemistic term for a king’s male concubine (real or just suspected) in early medieval England. It wasn’t intended to be complementary though…the word “lovely” had a rather less sfw meaning back then. But, some of the young men so described nevertheless wore the title with pride (presumably the ones actually banging the King). It got thrown around a lot though, because basically lords used it as an all-purpose way to insult each others’ kids/taunt them into arranged marriages.
Do it. I would read that book, and I bet ya a lot of the boys who are confused and are looking for a book to help them understand would need it. Also, it sounds fun.
Achilles: *requests his ashes be mixed with Patroclus' so they could be together in the afterlife*
Historians: such good bros!
Besties for life and afterlife I say.
such good bros what could be better than an amazing friendship
B e s t f r I e n d s
And historians will call them
gay historians: such gay bros!
OT is like the fun supportive uncle we all never had
True-
OT: the Dad we need, but do not deserve.
This would make The Click the dirty jokes uncle we all had
Can we collectively adopt him as our dad or uncle?
@@Spookfishspecter what is adopting parents called?
historians HATE this trick (how to be historical roommates in just 3 steps)
step 1:be gay
step 2:like, really gay
step 3:like, for real, super obviously homosexual
@@real3576 step 3 pt 2: die and wait a while!
XD
step 1: lube (highly recommended)
step 2: ???
step 3: profit
Also the Thebes one was an army of homosexual lovers, they were deliberately assembled because they were lovers and thus fight harder to protect each other and work together. That's why that guy went off on a "they're just good friends" rant lol
yep, them being lovers was like…the fucking point.
The Greek gov’t however is extremely homophobic and don’t want to admit there was ANYTHING gay about their history. The entire rest of the world is just “lol, looks pretty gay to me bro”.
@@golwenlothlindel nah the greeks werent homophobic, most of greece actually had some form of institutionalised gay. In Athens men often had multiple partners of both genders while in Sparta men and women had gay relationships. It however was erased from historical texts by monks and priests because otherwise the Catholic church would have destroyed it :>
@@aasha8759 IS, present tense.
Ancient Greece was very gay. Modern Greece doesn’t like to say so.
I'm both ashamed and proud. As far as I've seen, no one realized at 12:42 it says "achilles, FINGERING his sword" and then "Patroclus for his friend and sword-companion".
Am I the only one to find it funny?
Historians: they were adjusting each other's turbans!
Me: oh my god, they were adjusting each other's turbans...!
turban-mates
@@amarisako3918 oh my god they were turban-mates
fr tho the image of two guys adjusting each other's turbans is high key cute 😭
Fun fact about history, it’s very gay
The romans were gay, the Greeks were gay, the Russians were gay, the Chinese were gay, it’s a miracle that the rest of the world handled such pushback with birth rates
very ironic considering how Russia and China treat gay people, hopefully it'll get better tho
There's old church records that seem to indicate that the Christian/Catholic Church married same gender couples in the past, so...
But the main Biblical verse that's used to demonize gay people was actually condemning people who sexually abused children, so... the Church covering up stuff isn't exactly news.
Are you trying to say pedophilia and homosexuality are the same thing? Lol, i didn't expect this from y'all
*definitely just friends or roommates*
@Bloob indeed, the line (and I may not be 100% correct here) "Man shall not sleep with boy"
I asked my friend at school “wanna be considered best friends by historians?”
oh my gosh yes!!!!!!!
I’m stealing that as a pick up line
Hey Finn are you in the Bicyclist discord?
@@securecontainpikachu6718 yeah, why?
@@Finn_7117 i'm there too!
"Let's be gay historically" just gives off so many Red White and Royal Blue vibes omg
For the record, "men without female sex partners" does not automatically mean "gay men."
Asexual people exist, and besides that, it is also perfectly acceptable to be straight and just never have a romantic/sexual partner
preach!
Yeah, but I think the point is that they assumed that males with no female sexual partners = male virgins. The article seems to be that abstinence in men is increasing which might not be the case if their data collection is skewed
So yes, some of them will be not gay men, but the point is that the group should be considered before making conclusions
This. I'm not gay, but I'd be pretty happy never getting into a relationship and instead spending my time with my male friends. I wouldn't be opposed to living with one for most of my life. That doesn't make me gay, because I know I don't feel anything sexual towards them. It's the same way I'd have no problem living with my brother my whole life.
Gay acceptance is good but it's sometimes frustrating to see people ignore that non-sexual, non-romantic, but still powerful and important relationships exist.
@@ApeniGirl
yeah but that's not the way they phrase it. Without fail, they always state it as a FACT that they must be gay, and there's NO other alternative
Man, I'm ace and even I don't notice how often ace aro and everything else gets overlooked
the best thing about these subreddits is learning about notable people that were gay.
Pretty much all the history I ever learned in school up to this point was basically "everyone was straight, even if they were gay. We do not talk about the gay."
I had no idea what homosexuality was until I got into college and finally realized why I was never attracted to boys and had girl crushes. I was a lesbian, but I had no idea what that was at the time. School needs to step it up...having a person be as confused and hurt and I am for nearly 20 years of my life is not okay.
I got into classical mythology because it was the only place where homosexual relationships seemed normal. I felt like the characters and the people were as close to being my people as I could find. Imagine my joy of these last few years! My people are appearing around every bend! And they aren't treating women as property!
I think you just assumed all of them were straight because it's the default. Because i'm pretty sure they don't teach us about historical figures sexual preferences, because why would they? What will we gain from learning about such things?
@Will westland I mean, in many cultures throughout history, being bisexual was considered the default.
@Will westland learning about those things can help to fight against misconceptions that being gay is new and also provide comfort to LGBT+ students who fee alone/weird because of their identity.
So _this_ is where all of the missing posts on /r/sapphoandherfriend about male 'roommates' are...
I'm happy this exists, thank you for bringing it to my attention OT :)
You mean the missing posts about *sword companions?*
Wait... I had a thought... does this open up for "accidentally gay" in literature? Like the author didn't intend to make them a gay couple but by making them "really good friends and roommates" kinda made them gay anyway?
For example, LOTR. Gimli and Legolas became really good friends. So much so that they spent the next 100 years of Gimli's life together, cofounded a city together, went on numerous adventures together, and were so close that they couldn't bear to be parted by death so Legolas snuck Gimli into the Gray Havens with him (which was forbidden). I am pretty sure that Tolkien intended it to be "nohomo", but it kinda reads as "roommates".
Is it possible that Tolkien was inadvertently influenced by the time period and other "roommates" that he actually thought were roommates and so included one in his books not knowing the subtext? He just thought it was a great bromance or something.
Might be a stretch, but it would be interesting if there was any kind of literary impact as a result of lifelong "roommates" being labeled as such and not being recognized for the truth.
OK. I ship those two very much together so what I say may sound like excuses to validate this ship but, but-! hear me out:
I'm pretty sure Tolkien studied Irish and Nordic folklore as his stories has ties to some of them and he was a teacher who specialises in language, (There is a movie about his life) And, I'm pretty sure he has enough sufficient research of queer history and folklore that he gleaned while doing research. So I think this could have some merit.
In my opinion, it's more likely Tolkien intended them to be seen as a couple, but was just trying to be subtle about it. There's a short passage in The Silmarillion where he explains the genders of the Valar in a way that could very easily be interpreted to validate trans people. I believe Tolkien was supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, just in a very discreet manner
It's not a bad read, though I'm not sure if I share it. Didn't Tolkien talk about how the male relationships were supposed to mirror the "battle brothers" relationships he witnessed in WW1/2 (I'm dumb and don't remember which). That obviously doesn't exclude a romantic reading, but is worth considering. Though I'm prone to misreading romantic relationships as platonic A LOT.
Bert and Ernie.
Also Sam and Frodo
I love how they got fined for not wearing masks, not for the other nudity.
Like, Yes, nude sunbathing is totally fine as long as your face is covered.
"It's real and it's full of butts!" Also, do we really not get to hear what happened next in the Macbeth and Lady Macbeth saga? I FEEL CHEATED
Me too! I feel bad for Macbeth's girlfriend, but him and Lady Macbeth seem perfect for each other. I'm rooting for them.
I REALLY want to know what happened next.
the suspense is killing me tbh
Achilles/Patroclus: possibly the first recorded "who tops" shipwar in history.
And everybody seems to forget the option of them being switches
Unfortunately, for that time period, any switching would have so effected their social credit that the chances of their being celebrated as legendary heroes would have likely been entirely off the table.
In historical context, they would have needed to at least _present_ as a set pitcher/catcher dynamic.
Who was it tho 👀 (I vote Achilles)
@@thatlizardperson7976 patroclus is older so it would've been him.
Well duh. These idiots can’t accept that Achilles is a top.
For some reason the concept of someone laying naked on a nude beach but still wearing a mask because of COVID is hilarious. It's just got stripper bow tie vibes XD
You just put a picture in my head...
Personally I would have said a moose came out the water and spooked us, but a deer works. I believe new south Wales is around where moose dive for food and seeing one come up on the beach would make me at least partially happy I'm not wearing pants.
Ok, so at my highschool, the most traditional of traditional studies school in town, the teachers didn’t even try to hide historical homosexuals, they straight went to the Top/Bottom debate about Achilles and Patroclus. My teacher was of the current that said Achilles was the bottom.
I didnt realize that was a real debate. Achilles was the stronger, more athletic and had higher social status. I always assumed he would be the dominant one. On the other hand, most marines that I have met were bottoms.
I love it when people realize that the real endings of most fairy tails are dark because in Germany we grow up with all these sad and brutal stories. I cried every single time my grandma read the little mermaid to me and was so confused when I watched the Disney one
I grew up from my parents reading me stories and watching movies and Barbie and those moments have a large impact in my life and who I am as a person.... I truly loved those days and it was what helped me think I want to tell and write stories too and show people that even so.... It must've been hard for you. I have had good memories but the stories with sad and brutal endings I was shown and even though it hurt back when I was young, it made me try to be more understanding and emphatic towards others. So, I hope you don't hate those stories. As someone who grew up from the good and bad and loving stories I have no right to dictate how you should feel or live. But I still want to give you this. That what you see and heard and felt are all magical. Whether it was dark or light. And that stories have magic in them. It's just not visible but it is felt.
We were watching a biography for class yesterday.
“He explored his sexuality and found a preference for other men”
“His best friend and roommate, who lived together for many years”
“His best friend stayed by his side forever”
“His roommate”
Like WTF, just say they were partners already!
“They were good frie- oh goddamnit, fine, they FUCKED! SMASHED! ALL THE TIME!”
@@VagueNaming That's gay, not gonna lie :-)
@@amadeosendiulo2137 tad bit fruity
@@erinyes3943a wee bit queer
“It’s real and it’s full of butts!”
My favorite quote of all times
IT'S ALL BUTTS! I giggled like a madman 😂
The "Lady Macbeth" one is really wholesome, i love it! Plus, i'm sure Achilles and Patroclus had a lot of "sword fights", if you know what i mean
I want *MORE* from Lady Macbeth! Their story sounds as interesting as the play itself~ I wanna see how it plays out >w
They were "sword companions".
Aha, yes. The coveted "these two men are alone in this room kissing each other and have announced their upcoming marriage but I see nobody for them to marry!" Classic erasure. Chef's kiss.
And who could forget "this room is full of very confidently masculine men all having intimate activities with one another but there's no way a single one of them are much more than mere roommates." Exquisite. Blissfully ignorant to the fact that homosexuality has existed as long as sexual dichotomy. Unaware that the many instances of their gay best friends were, in fact, their gay best friends actually just being gay for each other. Divine. Aged like wine.
Someone bury me with a phallic object in my pelvic bones and place a dirtied note with my grave stating "I loved it so much, I had it petrified before my demise so I could have it rock hard for eternity" or something like that. I don't know. Just do something funny. Confetti canon in my ribcage that activates upon the opening of my coffin. Make it obvious I was gay because heteros have no sense of humor. Legally I must make a disclaimer that this is a joke in its entirety or I may actually be fined for popping comedic remarks at the expense of heterosexuals. Don't sue me I'll bless everyone in your life except you and you will be the only person in your circle of close companions and family who does not own a Porsche in their lifetime.
If you've actually read this entire essay of a stupid comment, congratulations, you have my interest. I, a gay transmasculine gremlin.
@@Wishtelle Always happy to offer some positivity. 💖
I am a gay transmasculine goblin/gremlin, my friend group hasn't decided yet on which to call me. This comment is amazing by the way, I also kinda wanna do this except I was gonna eat a bunch of popcorn kernels and get cremated :)
I got quite a good guffaw from this when I needed it most!
Thank you!
-A cis bi rabbit
I did. It looked long and boring but I ended up reading it anyway. And I have no regrets reading it. Cus your words have peaked my interest. 👍😏✨
From your friendly neighbourhood bi
Also there's a lot of bi people in your comment section. It seems to me you have garnered the bi's interests.
Fun fact: Achilles requested his and Patrocolis's ashes be intermingled after their death( which is like, totally just friendship)
Btw if youre wondering, yes, their comrades did listen and mix their ashes.
So they could be together forever
Ahh that I felt that in my soul, which is saying a lot because I often question if I actually have one.
Definitely just friends, very close friends yes yes.
Glad to know their homies were TRUE homies and listened
Just a fun note on history, sexuality was not typically seen as discretely just gay or just straight. Sex was seen as a form of social bonding in addition to a way to reproduce in societies from ancient Mesopotamia, to Japan up to the westernization in the Meiji era, to ancient Greece, and more! I wonder if, in times where populations were not so enormous, it was easier to be seen as an individual rather than an assemblage of categories of identity, which may have allowed different sexualities to be seen as mere genital preference.
Unfortunately, older religions/societies tend to have customs painted as taboo and evil by newer competing religions, as we see with much of what has lead to modern homophobia and transphobia.
I honestly wonder if most of us are a little bit bi/pan, but internalized homophobia prevents many from recognizing it (thus I kiss you but nohomo). Especially, given that physical sexual attraction, aesthetic attraction, romantic attraction, and emotional attraction are not necessarily linked/not always set to the same gender, and are not binary, thus you can like looking at all butts, jack-off to your homies, but only want to marry a woman.
Fun fact: noone thinks about gay sex more than a homophobe
@@WolfgangDoW true
That is absolutely true. Studies of open minded internet spaces that aren't explicitly "for the LGBT" point to the reality that sexuality absolutely is a bell curve, 25% straight, 50% on the spectrum of bi, 25% gay.
Likewise, I also want to marry this comment.
@@machinerin151 Also see: Kinsey Scale, a rating of 1-6 for an individual's preference between people of the same and opposing sex. Created in 1948 by Doctors Alfred Kinsey and Clyde Martin. There were 7 ratings on the scale: 0 being "exclusively heterosexual," 6 being "exclusively homosexual," and X (the 7th rating) meaning "no socio-sexual contacts or relations." It was found that the majority of people rank between 1 and 5, having differing levels of preference between same and opposite sex individuals.
The amount of evidence supporting how NORMAL being Bisexual or Gay in Greek and Roman history was is ASTOUNDING!!!
Fr
You’re right. But then I remember how sexist Ancient Greeks were and it gets disheartening.
In the words of Red they were cool about a lot of stuff but women wasn’t one of them. I think Romans weren’t as sexist.
@@moondivine2288 If I remember correctly you might be right that Romans were not as sexist, might have taken quite a lot from the Etruschian culture, who should've respected women a lot.
@@moondivine2288 If you were a woman in Sparta who survived the likely possibility of being left out in the wilderness to die as a newborn infant, you could own property and learn profitable skills and other cool things. Women had way more rights in Sparta than in the rest of ancient Greece, but it still wasn't much by today's standards
Another day of random facts for OT because he wants random facts from *at least* 12 feet away
1) The hashtag symbol is actually called an octothorpe. The octo-" prefix refers to the 8 points on the figure. "Thorpe" is kind of a mystery
2) The unicorn is the national animal of Scotland. It was chosen for its association with dominance and chivalry in Celtic mythology.
Thank you for that
This is wonderful!
Wasn't the unicorn also partially chosen because it's meant to be the enemy of the lion, England's nation animal? Or is that just a funny coincidence?
Very cool facts :)
Love learning things like that
@@mariaconnell610 I'm not sure, it's possible tho
That Macbeth story is just AWESOME... I wouldn't mind when in the end they both really just played their rolls... But damn, those guys are totally asking to ship them together!!
8:48
You're allowed to not wear a mask if you're exercising, and I can assure you those guys were doing cardio
I don't think they were following social distancing though...
On one hand, I suppose we need to let men be comfortably affectionate with each other without assuming they're together. On the other hand, we should also let men date each other without assuming they're just "bros". It's a tough one.
I mean, if a man and a woman are friends and someone thinks they're dating, as long as they don't keep pushing it after they've been corrected, it's not seen as a big deal. It can be hard to tell a close friendship and a romantic relationship apart from an outside perspective, and that's the case no matter the sexes of those involved
Also, Achilles was definitely the bottom. I like to think he only let his guard down in front of Patroclus.
Also, he could be a power bottom lmao.
I'm going to keep saying this until the end of time... consider this: *switches.*
...but yeah, he probably was the bottom.
This was, funnily enough, an actual debate lmao
@@lemmetalkaboutthis I know 😂
@@silvercandra4275 I do like that idea 🤔
They shared everything, even this.
I mean...
@@lemmetalkaboutthis They started trying to find out the nature of their relationship and ended up arguing about who was on top and who was bottom.
It's great.
"Comrades even"
You know the funny thing is in Chinese netizen speak "comrade" is actually a way to refer to the LGBTQIA+ folks lol
*maybe I am a comrade*
“The wait is over my GAYS”
StalinAndHisComrade
"comrades in arms"
11:34 actually the retconning of aincient male lovers as friends has damaging implications today
omg I let out the loudest "HA" when you said "bros with roommates" and now I've paused the video to check if my neighbors heard me out the window.
And some people still saying that Chopin was talking in his letters to Tytus about FRIENDSHIP. I read those letters in orginal IT'S SO VERY GAE.
Bet the same people would say that Maria Konopnicka was completely straight even tho she left her husband and kids to live with another women for the rest of her life
Okay I understand leaving her husband, she just didn't love him and loved a women but it's just fucking heartless to leave her kids
@@HalfAnd_Half i think they had some contact but yea as far as I know she wasn't the best mother
i know im late but by original, do you mean the polish ones?
@@hashbites yep
@@iSleepinYourTeacups nice, where did you find it?
I want the "Lady Macbeth and Macbeth" story to be an actual movie or book. I need it.
Me too!
Btw I've never read Macbeth, what is it about and why is it sad?🤔🤷🤷😅😅
@@ilovepancakes2545 basically, some bad stuff happens and macbeth wants revenge but then he doesn't and Lady Macbeth manipulates him to get revenge and do some other bad stuff anyway. macbeth ends up not-alive bc of it
Yeah! We need a Patreon or something!!
@@marenana9825 oh no.😥
I would definitely cry when they find out how the play ends... Let's hope the teacher changes the scripts, or I'm going to need to stuck up on comfort foods
Just want to mention, “The Incredibles” screenshot isn’t from the actual film, but it was part of the special features. It was a sub menu dossier for the superheroes including voice clips. Having said that, Thunderhead’s clip sounded like a large, teddy bear type of man.
The last one was so cute and funny I loved it so much. How he refused to answer to anything other than Lady Macbeth, what an icon
The macbeth play made me laugh so hard i need to find the original post to screenshot and have it forever
John Laurens and Alexander Hamilton fit here perfectly. The letters they sent each other were so clearly gay, but the amount of straights I've seen online that have straight up been like "THEY WEREN'T GAY ALEXANDER MARRIED A WOMAN STOP DISRESPECTING AN IMPORTANT HISTORY FIGURE." as if a bi dude was unheard of.
As if gay people were not forced into marriage to keep society happy was also unheard of.
@@supergabee True but it wasn't unnatural for men to have intimate time with multiple people at once. As long as a woman was involved they could get away with stuff like that. Hamilton and Laurens were both involved in stuff like this. So we're alot of others from that time.
Look at Hamilton, the effing Tom Cat, he clearly radiates rockstar bissexual energy
Not to mention Fredrick the Great. Just look at the comments on the video "Frederick the Great: Gay King of Europe" by EmperorTigerstar, it's full of homophobes. (I'd link you the video but I don't think TH-cam gives alerts for comments with links in them.)
And here I thought that r/SapphoAndHerFriend was the only subreddit like this.
As an avid reader of mythology in general, the Achilles and Patroclus meme hit on a personal level. AAAAAAAAAAA
Me too
The Macbeth’s tho 😭😭
My name is Achilles and whenever I hear anyone talking about the myth, I get spooked like "what did I do?" As if I didn't name myself after him
Same
9:16
Achilles: what are you doing S̶t̶e̶p̶bro
Has OT played Hades yet? If not, that is a missed opportunity and a half, especially because of Achilles and Patroclus' are shown to be -lovers- good pals and it's wondeful.
this !!!
This, very much this. Also nice Professor Layton pfp
@@dandeleyeon Thank you! It's really a great series, and holds the title of the only video game to make me cry (Unwound Future, specifically).
@@actone4822 of course :) unfortunately I lost most of my games so the only ones I have left are Pandora's box and Lost/Unwound Future. I agree, that one definitely hits right in the feels
@@dandeleyeon Yeah, it would be nice if they could release a collection on modern hardware so it could get a revival in popularity similar to Ace Attorney. Every time I think I'll make it through UF's ending just fine, and then Layton tears up and takes off his hat and I just bawl.
Fun fact: everything had a power dynamic in ancient greece. Ppl didn’t discriminate by who’s doing who, but by who was top. Ancient Greece still wasn’t that great unfortunately.
True, homosexual relationships were considered only ok if you were the person doing the penetrating. Being on the receiving was considered emasculating.
YES! Someone else who knows this! Greco-Roman culture said "Yeah you can screw people of the same gender as you. Just don't be topped by the _lower class."_
I recall learning in art history that there was an issue of young men from wealthy families newly introduced to high society getting mixed up with older more experienced men and being the bottom, thus being disgraceful. so they started to recommend that young men of means had chaperones to keep the older men in their circles from looking disrespectfully and making a bottom out of their young aristocrat.
I feel like OT just says "I'm a do a sit" every time they sits down.
Did OT recently come out as enby and i just missed it
(Context ive seen a lot of comments reffering to him/them as they and then and im just confused)
@@jameslowe4031 as far as im aware he is not non binary and uses he/him
@@jameslowe4031 Pronouns don't always equal gender. Cis people can use they/them as well as their gender's pronouns too.
And, it's possible that the people using they/them for OT don't know OT's pronouns and is using they/them just in case! That's also perfectly valid
@@jameslowe4031 I'm not sure about everyone else but I just use they/them because if OT dose come out and change their pronouns i wouldn't actually use the wrong pronouns on accident since thay them is all inclusive
(hope this helped 💜)
I just checked and ot's twitter says any pronouns fine so
17:07 I had a friend who dressed up as a bride for our class's Halloween theater show and it was hilarious. They were both totally straight but the bride was a class clown and didn't mind getting "married" to a guy just for some laughs. And it worked. We all had great time.
I'm kinda nostalgic now, gotta go ask my old classmates if somebody still has the video
Fun fact: Macbeth and Lady Macbeth are often cited as the most functional/happy couple in Shakespeare's corpus, so those students got it right
Ok, on the brother thing, isn't there that one “brothership” thing in history where it was pretty much marriage but not explicitly stated????
I'm pretty sure I read about concepts like this before. On different occasions and in different contexts.
I'm pretty sure one was that pirates had a thing where two dudes could be Mates (capital 'M'!) and shared everything. I'm also pretty sure I've read about it in the context of fighters/soldiers/knights but I don't remember the temporal and cultural context.
there was a catholic ceremony of "brothership" during the Middle Ages, in which a same sex couple would "share one purse, one cup and one plate" or something along those lines. Of course, historians argue it was completely platonic and was only about joining their finances.
@@roopj002 well I'm sure the catholic church INTENDED it to be platonic...
Oh, yeah! Enbrotherment, I think?
there was i think pirates who had a thing called embrotherment where they shared all their posessions and lived together and stuff. is that what youre thinking of?
As someone who studies history and works with several people in historical study, historians now are all super gay/supportive and see every historical roomates as partners. So the idea that historians not seeing the gay is no longer true, mostly there are probably a couple but we don't talk about them!
Yeah, a lot of that, "…and they were roommates," stuff comes from the 19th Century, where the "historians" went out of their way to wallpaper over anything they didn't like and "correct" the inconvenient facts.
The myth about Columbus trying to convince superstitious sailors that the Earth is round is one such lie. Sailors for millennia knew that the Earth is round. They saw it every time they left port. And sometimes the navigators even knew the rough size of the Earth, since, like, plotting a course by the stars kinda requires that. But the Victorians thought _all sailors_ were "filthy, ignorant scum from the lowest strata of society" - couldn't let the facts get in the way of their class-driven hate, now, could they!
The _real_ reason nobody wanted to go with Columbus is that the idiot insisted that the Earth was only ½ to ⅔ its actual circumference. Every captain and his crew knew that the Earth was waaaaay bigger than that idiot Columbus was claiming, and didn't want to die of dehydration in the middle of "The World Ocean" that they thought was the only thing westward of Europe all the way to Asia. Or to put it differently, imagine that the American continents weren't there and in their place was nothing but ocean. Imagine now being told to sail through that empty expanse, with nowhere to stop and trade for supplies.
Is it any wonder nobody wanted to do that?
I think the problem is most of the books people read were written by an older generation of historians, and people like teachers don’t bother to update them since what happened was far before their time.
Adult fun time… Woohooing… But have you heard HORIZONTAL TANGO? Cause that’s my new favourite
sheeeEEEEESH
I love how google had to translate that
The sideways Charleston!
Funky sessions.
holy frick I'm wheezing
"Everyone should have someone to cuddle with"
~OT 2021
That outro tho. GET THIS MAN TO 1M SUBS ASAP!!!
The world needs to see Armored OT.
The user named Giornosdad :"Oh he's just doing it for the hype"
As a Jojo's fan, I would expect other Jojo's fans to accept that not everything is entirely heterosexual.
as a jojo fan there are so many people who want to think that everything is straight and it gets annoying asf sometimes
dio was literally bisexual jojo’s isnt full straight
@@someperson6252 one of the characters in part 7 is either bi or a lesbian lol
plus did he just forget about both gay couples in part five, the two dessert gay bois who were killed and the shark boi with tongue boi on the rooftop, two gay af couples in the mafia xD not to mention the tons of other just gayness and bi dio
@@mammabrunobucciarati5779 and the cross dresser girl in part two or three I don't remember
I didn’t think this was a real subreddit until now, either.
It is really hilarious that there are still people who think that Achilles was not bi and in a relationship ship with Patroklos and Briseis. And he cared about both of them and tried to protect them. What in both cases did not really work well and ended with his death. I always saw Achilles as polygamous and as a loyal lover. How could anyone oversee this?
At least for the greek one I can assure you it is 100% our school system's fault we are taught the Iliad in middle school as a standard class and we are repeatedly told that they were friends.
@@ΒλάσιοςΚαρπούζης that is such a pity. I thought especially in Greece they would teach it in the way, Homer described them. Achilles became crazy because he couldn't handle Patroklos death. It is so obvious that they loved each other.
@@triloization i wish that was the case, but the same people that want our traditions and heritage to pass on are the ones that don't want these parts of our civilization to exist, i also want to clarify here that we only study certain parts of the Iliad
PLZPLZPLZPLZ MORE! This was as chaotic and wholesome as expected, and i cant have enough!
Chopin has also hit me in the feels, OT. Especially because I spent hours last night rediscovering the secret stack of unrequited gay love poems I wrote a couple of years ago. The furtive secrecy of gay feelings resonates down the ages. 😢
This is giving me SO MANY romantic things to say to my partner. The Chopin things especially. ROSALEE I HOPE YOURE READY.
Rosalee is not ready
Omg so sweet
the chopin thing just cracked me to tears ^,-^
Sappho and her friend is such a relatable subreddit to me. Thanks to this, now I can see the other side of the River Styx.
Wait isn't the River Styx from Roman mythology wasn't Achilles from Greece ya know the country that probably dispised the Romans the most if you don't count the Germanic and Celtic tribes (fun fact Scotland was the only place the Romans attempted to invade but were repelled and Hadrians Wall was built because the Romans were terrified of the Celtic tribes there that fear continued throughout the centuries during WW1 Scots serving in the British army were some of the most respected and most feared soldiers the Germans nicknamed them the ladies from hell because they wore kilts into battle and fought like devils)
Isn't River Styx the one you cross to go to Hades/the afterlife or do I need to fresh up on Greek mythology?
@@leothebackgroundsheep3010 yes indeed. Achilles was also dipped into it as a child and that made him immortal except for the heel (I think)
@@leothebackgroundsheep3010 nope the River Styx is from Roman mythology the Greeks called it something else
@@theemofemboycatgirlw3214 nah, the Styx is Greek. Not sure if Romans had the same 5 rivers of the underworld.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but as a queer classicist who has specifically researched homosexuality in Ancient Greece and Rome, the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
The quote about Patroclus' thighs is not from Homer, but supposedly from a lost play by Aeschylus (would need more digging to check the Greek text because I know the Internet sometimes spreads quotes that don't exist). The fact of the matter is that Homer's portrayal of their relationship is ambiguous. It's possible that they were queer, but people seem to forget that the thing that started the whole conflict of the Iliad is that Achilles is forced to give up his female slave Briseis to Agamemnon. He even canonically falls in love with an Amazonian queen before he kills her. Now, I don't know Homer by heart and I'd need to check the text for this, but if I'm not mistaken, Homer actually says Patroclus is somehow related to Achilles. In any case, Patroclus ended up at Peleus' court because he had to flee his home country after having accidentally killed someone.
However, I'm not one to claim that Achilles and Patroclus were definitely just friends and I don't think it matters either because there are enough examples from antiquity that are unambiguously queer. The Iliad is a piece of literature, which means it's up to interpretation and several interpretations are possible, as has been shown by history. Even in antiquity, people discussed whether Achilles and Patroclus were lovers or friends and obviously, some said they were lovers, as proven by some pieces of art and literature. In antiquity, their relationship also had to fit into the frame of pederasty, which meant there had to be an age and power difference and it actually truly mattered who was top and who was bottom because being the bottom was considered emasculating, feminine and weak, so only considered okay for teens and slaves. Yes, antiquity was more accepting than the Christian Middle Ages, but it was far from a gay paradise because social stigma still existed if you didn't follow the norms.
So in some things from antiquity, they are more explicitly portrayed as lovers, in others, they are just friends, and I don't think that has to be a bad thing, even though queer history is often erased. There's nothing wrong with choosing to interpret Homer in a way that their relationship is platonic, but please don't claim either one is the only possible interpretation. I know the "historical context" is often used as an excuse, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter anymore. (I still need to do more research about homo-erotic symbolism in antiquity, so I might change my opinion in the future, but based on my current knowledge, I don't find any argument about Homer's Achilles and Patroclus convincing.)
If you want an explicitly queer text from antiquity, read Plato's Symposium. Not only does that feature a (pederastic) couple that truly existed, but it also features one of the most famous myths about the origin of the different sexualities (with bi erasure, but you can't have everything). Only thing to keep in mind is that Plato is the reason we speak about "platonic" love and he considered everything that had to do with the flesh bad (you can see where Christianity got their inspiration).
As an aroace classics nerd, thank you for talking about this! My high school teachers for Latin and Ancient Greek spent quite some time explaining sexuality and culture in ancient history to us- we even had to write an essay on sexuality depicted in different stories and read Sappho- but not once did we discuss the relationship between Achilles and Patrokles when reading the Illiad as it simply was not the main topic of the story. And because I related to Achilles being willing to die for a friend (or lover), it annoys me that they are seen as the token example of homosexuality in Ancient Greek, so much even that I've started to dislike the story. It's also a shame that people decide to focus on the relationship of two fictional characters as an example of homosexuality in history when there are canon examples of homosexuality, such as emperor Hadrian who was known to sleep with men and had a boyfriend of whom he made a statue because he was so upset when he was killed
@@Alicia-zf3nq Exactly! I never explicitly learned about Achilles and Patroclus in any of my classes, but I did a research paper on homosexuality in Ancient Greece and some of my readings touched on it and I have a classmate who specifically did a research paper on Achilles and Patroclus. I've also read a decent number of texts with clear subtext and we WERE taught about that subtext, so I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about, but it frustrates me how some people seem to take The Song of Achilles as completely true to Homer when it's just a valid creative retelling. And as a fellow ace and possibly aro-spec, it also frustrates me how some people basically devalue friendship in their argumentation and push the idea that friends can't be willing to die for each other or love each other more than anything in the world. So I'm very happy whenever people are willing to consider that there might be better queer icons in antiquity than Achilles and Patroclus.
Ty for sharing this info and your thoughts. I appreciate your dedication to forthrightness and accuracy, even if that means Achilles and Patroclus might not have been written as the couple people hope for.
@@33melonpaws77 Yeah, I get why people want them to be a couple because we've had to fight so hard against erasure and still do so every day, but I think it's more important to acknowledge the ambiguity of Homer's text. It's still valid to interpret them as a couple, but it's not less valid to say they were best friends. And we can find other queer icons. There's certainly no lack of those, even if people tried to erase them (like Sappho or the emperor Hadrian).
Yeah it is a difficult thing to deal with partly because we have to deal with the fact that different cultures will often remove the idea of homosexual relationships but there may also be relations within different cultures that are distinct from our own culture that we may be tempted to classify as homosexual are considered their own thing within their culture.
A similar thing comes up with transgender people in the past. We have to acknowledge and should be sure there was legitimitate transgender people as we see them today in ancient times, but(and this adds a whole nother layer) different cultures had different gender forms especially in their mythology. It might not be accurate to describe that person as transgender even in the sense of representing the culture or even that indivual experince. Some of them might even be more genderfluid or simply a gender understanding unique to that culture.
We sometimes forgot that ancient history exists in a different culture than we do and we may legitmatily be reading into behaviors without understanding context and just taking in how those modern day people would intiatite modern day relationships when ancient culture even in lgbtq relationships may be intiated differentily.
Definitely something that is tought to balance.
17:52 I'm sorry this whole story screams of these two students finally having the opportunity to come out
11:24 he says unironically with "PEG" as his name.
‘Pulling my leg’ come on… the jokes right there… they’re going for your heel.
Ah dangit! It was right there!!
@@OneTopic Guess you shot yourself with an arrow in the heel! hehehahaha!
I felt the need to cheer when he became overjoyed that MuseumBums indeed had bums.
Historians now with The Iliad: Ah, Achilles and Patroclus, what a great and the tragic story about war and brotherhood.
Plato and every single Greek back then: they were so In love bro
Me as a Greek studying Greek mythology: *GAY*
Didn't Plato once wrestle someone over the exact situation shown at 6:20? I feel like that did happen.
Greek here too, same honestly
I gotta know how "Lady Macbeth" ends, man! I love the courage the they had to take on such a role, and nailing it too! Props to them!
Every time people are like "They were probably siblings!" my response is :I HAVE a a sibling and if they acted that way I'd throw hands. gross"
my cheeks hurt from smiling and laughing at the Mcbeth and Lady Mcbeath. That was just so cute!
“Dude friend bros guys pals”
Ah yes. It is me
compatriots
*Day 50 of asking OT to put tiny masks on his tiny friends.*
I really hope this happens.
Yesssss
...Still waiting for that photoshoot, OT. A full suit of armour, a sword and a crown! 19:24
August 2024! Still waiting!👑🤴⚔️
How do his glasses show so much emotion
The HC Andersen thing also puts an interesting perspective on the mermaid being forced to love without being able to speak
@sarah-mazing! Also, the ending... she chooses to "save her immortal soul" by letting the prince marry the girl
I didn't need this but.... I needed this.... Cries.....
The Macbeth one was my favorite XD
Also happy to learn more lgbtq+ history of chopin and the little mermaid
Thanks so much OT 💛
Sad fact: The writer of the little mermaid wrote the story based on how he got rejected by a heterosexual man...
15:35 😊
Exactly
Cool.
Nice PFP by the way.
@@sdtwirix1126 thx
9:58 I didn't know One Topic had so much Stolas energy
( rlllly late ) im still mad they broke up.
"It's real, and it's full of butts!" I started choaking in laughter at that
My grandma is a piano player and looooves Chopin.
She also happens to be Christian Conservative, I wonder what would happen if I told her. 6:03
Would it matter? His music is amazing!
@@bearo8 of course it doesn't matter. But you know how some people react. 😂
You'd either destroy beliefs, or change them... or the right thing to do is just witness is like "Oh, interesting." and still listen to Chopin.
That last post was real hecking cute and silly. Honestly, if the story of Macbeth was a story like theirs, I would be all over that story...also, what a way to experiment with the gay side.
I want a re-telling of Macbeth that's just this story, and put it on the silver screen like Throne of Blood and West Side Story that came before!
I started watching OT a couple of months ago, and my mom liked Reddit videos so I recommended this channel to her. We now watch these videos together all the time. She loves how wholesome he can be.
Yes, I do love it! :D Hello, spawn!
I love when you review the LGBTQ+ subreddits, it always makes me feel warm and bubbly inside knowing I'm seen by at least some one
Hey OT, I know you said you read the comments, so I just want you to know: you are so kind. You laugh and make the world a little lighter, but you’re not afraid to talk serious when it’s needed. True kindness is sadly rare in this world, but you express it. Thank you. Thank you for being kind.
oh my god, i think that I'm too sensitive because your comment made me cry
I just want to say: true kindness isn't as rare as you think! I'm sorry if you don't have a supportive network of friends and family, but trust me, there are *many* kind people out there you can befriend :)
Nerd flying in!
"Retcon", often verbed into "retconning", is a term usually used to refer to works of fiction. Literally, "retroactive continuity"; refers to when a writer or fanbase adds a justification or bit of story into a piece of a story that is already over. Think the edits George Lucas did to Star Wars, or that thing JK Rowling does.
Applying a term like that to real life is silly on the face of it, imo; especially because an applicable term exists, in historical revisionism.
I am now amused by the image of some dictionary including the term "retconning" with the definition of "that thing JK Rowling does" XD
@@xeldabutterfae407 you mean transphobia? /j
@@lego_the_cat Yep. And just being a terf(look up what it is. I can't explain it well.)
Wait. I got it to 69 likes. Nice, my fellow nerd.
Oh lord, that Macbeth section had me smiling like a loon! If you find out how it ends, OT, then please tell us?? Regardless, thank you for being amazing!!!!
Exactly like now Im invested
I showed my friend ur vids and she subbed cus she wants to see your photo shoot in a suit of armour
The people have spoken, can’t wait for 1 mil
As a pianist, that Chopin one literally made me cry it was so beautiful
I don't condone shipping people... but like, the Lady Macbeth and Macbeth kid though
oh mag gawd, they were actors ;3
Lol I agree
I wish my highschool was that cool 😞
@@Mystery-Wolf same ,I mean there is that one guy who jokes with his friends in ways that could be taken wrong ......me and my bff are suspicious tho ....
@@akiza16 oh they remind me of two besties I knew in middle school. don't know if they were actually bi (both had gfs) or were just fooling around, but there was at least one kiss involved :D
She-ra’s katradora is nice, but I think we’re sleeping on the potential of a He-man series where he-man and skeletor end up together.
No. Just no. Let villains be villains. Not every villain needs to be redeemed
@@moondivine2288 Who said he had to be redeemed? It's entirely possible for them to fall in love without changing eachother.
@@Jane-oz7pp well actually there’s a lot of things love can’t overcome. If people are too opposite, for example have different moral values it will be near impossible for a romance to work out. That’s why Catra and other ships where the hero falls for the villain, the villain ends up being redeemed.
I also don’t see skelator wanting romance.
@@moondivine2288
Maybe he-man is unknowingly fighting for the wrong side, and gets to know the enemy and eventually realizes he’s on the wrong side. Maybe skeletor never really wanted to fight, and just did it out of peer pressure or something. There’s a bunch of ways to make it work.
@@monkewithinternetaccess6107 wait…..are you a goog omens fans? Nice. I love the series and book. Still that story is unique to good omens. It won’t be great if he man coped good omens plot line. It will also make Skeletor OCC. some of the clips I saw was Skeletor being unapologetically evil. And that was my point in my original comment. It’s good seeing a well written villain.
Maybe because I’m ace but I’m not big on changing someone’s personality to make a ship work.
Okay that "Are you in love" "I agree" audio is from one of my favourite fucking movie scenes I've ever gottdayum seen and that movie is, I shit you not, STORKS. The movie itself is decent, not a bad way to burn ninety minutes, but that scene specifically gives me LIFE
Dude, fricking finally! Someone who knows a good movie and can see a fun couple.
@OT 4:23 - it's a reference to the wolf pack from "Storks" - highly recommend!!!
OT continuously being at the very top of my watch list when I'm drawing art is the best, it's so easy to listen to and draw at the same time (something I struggle with as someone with sensory issues)
I saw the lady Macbeth post like 4 years back and I’ve still been wondering how it ended in that class. If there was ever another update to the original that anyone knows of PLEASE let me know