Superb first race from Logan, getting used to riding in a bunch is a massive next step and will have contributed hugely to nervousness and therefore a higher heart rate. I suspect a fair chunk of that first lap HR was due to that. More confidence and experience riding in a group will also help with the smoothness of his power.
absolutely spot on, nerves are a huge part of your first races. They make you make silly decisions that waste energy, they make you less effective and more reactive. I would imagine that Logan can do very well once he has found his groove in races and that will come all the sooner given Jeff's support and advice.
I was racing on this course once, and a guy on a solo break just put his head down and missed the turn (yes, it’s an oval, but if you don’t steer you will go off course), and crashed directly into one of those steel gates, flipping off his bike and over it. His race was over.
Just raced my first crit last week. Small field of 22 @Herbalife Crit series. Made the break after a few laps but couldn't hold on. Ended up TT the rest of the race since the gap was too big to drop back. Ended up with 6th.
Wow, with 2 weekly sanctioned races next door and Jeff as a coach, I think we're going to see Logan rapidly progress. Exciting stuff, keep up the hard work!
@@rolandfrerichs5625 crits are amazing! I rolled through with no clue the race was over but had gone solo for a lap and got a prime. I did a second race that day and got 3rd out of a 4 man break with my teammate but kinda got screwed by the lapped riders. I love bikes!
Started racing for the first time this season doing my local weekly crits, HUGE thanks to y'all for showing the progression that encourages so many others. So far 2nd and 3rd... Need to watch some more videos clearly for 1st!
well done Logan! I noticed that after the first lap you purposefully went to the sheltered side on each crosswind section. Very smart for your first race!
There are a few weekly crits in DFW now. Tuesday Night in Richardson, Wednesdays in Fort Worth, Thursday at the State Fair in Dallas and Sunday Morning in Murphy! All great opportunities to gain experience!
found this episode super relatable to my first crit from just a few days ago. was feeling a bit disheartened after getting dropped in both of my races but I'm pumped to do some more racing soon and only get better.
I’d argue a 1.11 variability index is an AMAZING feat for any rider in a bike race, let alone someone brand new to the sport doing his first! I just looked back at my TrainerRoad VI from my last 4 road races this year - they’re all between 1.25 and 1.5. Maybe that means I’m being “inefficient” but I’d venture that higher VI just means I’m doing a ton of coasting. With higher speeds in flat races like Chowchilla, etc., you’re forced to put down a bit more steady power, even when sitting in as part of a pack. In any case... great work, Logan!!!
As an enthusiastic viewer I have to say, respect that was really good Logan! I've never competed in a race, nothing is possible here in Germany because of Corona, and it will be a long time before my first RTF (german competitive amateur cycling tour) is possible. I overdid it in the winter and am still recovering from overtraining and it drags like chewing gum, I will now spend weeks in zone 1 before I can train properly again. My specialty is lots of power over a long period of time and stay a long time in thr drops. I can sprint too, but it's anything but explosive, Logan can do that much better here.
Nice work Logan! Perfect timing for this episode, as I just signed up for my first crit on May 4. Pretty nervous here for my first race ever after a year of no group rides, only trainer & solo rides, and I have no other teammates in the field. So helpful to see this and hear Jeff's advice! Look forward to hearing about the next crit :)
One thing to consider in my opinion is - its not just Logans 'fault' but the other riders are also not that experienced as your P/1/2 mates. So the overall ride is much more efficient and also faster. Really good ride Logan, liked it
Jeff, great content and really loving this series. I've only ever done Zwift races, don't even have a road bike actually, and your channel makes me want to do Crits. Keep me in mind if you do this again later on 😉 Oh, and great work, Logan - really inspiring!
I was in this race. I've got a video of it on my channel as well. The wind was brutal! Hope to see Logan out at this race and Fair Park on Thursdays, and in Murphy on Sundays! This race is the Tuesday Night Crit in Richardson, TX by the way.
@@loganmcpherson9047 was glad to see you out there Logan! I'm a big fan of Norcal. It's awesome you get to work with Jeff and have your progress documented.
Yesterday in my 2nd road race of the year I had a normalised power of 281W while having an average power of 228W for 1h 20min. My last FTP test gave me 272W a few months ago so my training has really paid off!
Nice job coming in 16 of 42. Solid effort. Two weekly races to choose from? I'm jealous! Also, getting dropped like a sack of rocks is basically a rite of passage for new racers. :)
Well done Logan, I was surprised at 122 PPM at the start I would have been 160 , great first race. If you can find a smooth rider (probably one of the top finishers) and stay on his wheel it will help. I hope you had fun. Lets hope you have a less windy race next. good advice from Jeff, as usual. Hate seeing people riding one handed for no apparent reason.
5:04 #339 I have never seen anyone swinging their bike so wildly while pedaling (and i don't mean on the roll axis, i mean tracking), whats up with that?
3 races around the same course, my VI was as follows: M35+ 1/2/3 = 1.06, cat 3 = 1.13, M35+ 3/4 = 1.14. Admittedly I was more active in the lower category races, but I still think it's unfair to compare VI between a P12 race and the uncontrolled entropy that is a cat 4/5 race.
Must be really nice to have races😭. Wish I could be hammering it out in the United States right now. My country on a standstill with regards to racing. Pandemic woes
Normalized power is weighting the 30s moving average to the power of 4. Seems like it could be misleading for crits, since really short accellerations get filtered out, and more suited for TTs.
Leaving aside the wind conditions, I'm sure a good portion of that 28.9mph comes from the wayyy faster field. I still think Jeff is right about VI, but it's probably a bit more nuanced than we all think.
@@NorCalCycling I guess I'm just imagining that if you removed the pack as a factor from the two 5 lap samples, the speed differential might not be quite as high. Don't mean to undermine the very salient point, just thought that there might be some other, less apparent factors contributing to the difference.
Great job Logan! I know plenty of guys who are in great shape, been riding for years, enter their first race and do worse than you did. Build on this experience and it'll benefit you in the next race. Jeff didn't get where he is in one race and neither will you. Stick with it and good luck!
How do you keep your power more consistent, but the guy you're drafting (well, the whole pack) have high variability? If you don't put out those 600 watts, you don't keep up with the pack and you get dropped. If you don't coast, you run into the back of someone. Thanks for the great content!
You try to use the draft to move up, so instead of coasting into the back of someone, you drift up pack at an even power. But it takes a bit of skill, so must be learned.
Looking at the time at which Logan was dropped it looks like he could practice/use the drops or aero hoods a bit more. I don't think the speed on the crosswind or the following tailwind section really matched the power output
On the VI topic, I'm sure Logan could do better but you can't ignore the field he is racing with. It's probably hard to keep that number down when the field is surging in a similar fashion all race long. The more skilled the field becomes, the easier it is to keep that vi number in check.
Would have been better content if Jeff didn't talk for the Variability index for 30 minutes .. dude Jeff. it's Cat 5 race., of course, it's not as smooth as a P 1-2 race. Jeff spent the whole video saying that Cat 5 races surge a lot relative to Cat 1s, great insight.
Not trying to sound as a smart ass, I started racing in the velodromo not to long ago and I see Logan doing the same I did at the beginning which is not properly follow the wheel in my case was scary to me be right back the wheel of another rider, what if he falls I will fall with him so I always was out on the wind. I think probably Logan is doing the same and he could improve that
Variability is really complicated (30 second smoothing, watts to 4th power, average over time, take square root twice, divide by average power). I like to mentally think instead of the simpler "critical power model", which says energy up to my critical power (close to FTP,) is aerobic, and I can sustain that for a long time. Any power I do above critical power comes from my anaerobic work capacity (power over time = work). So if my CP = 250 W, and I go 350 W, then 100 W comes from my anaerobic work capacity, which is on average around 90 seconds times FTP (fully rested and carb'ed) so that would be around 22.5 kJ. So +100W for 10 seconds = 1 kJ. That would reduce AWC to 21.5 kJ. Thinking of it this way, every time I go over threshold is less energy in the battery, and when the battery hits zero, I'm done. I feel this is more intuitive for during efforts, making it a strategic choice when to use my anaerobic work capacity (obviously reality is more complex). The goal isn't constant power, but to spend that anaerobic work capacity where it helps me the most.
Superb first race from Logan, getting used to riding in a bunch is a massive next step and will have contributed hugely to nervousness and therefore a higher heart rate. I suspect a fair chunk of that first lap HR was due to that. More confidence and experience riding in a group will also help with the smoothness of his power.
absolutely spot on, nerves are a huge part of your first races. They make you make silly decisions that waste energy, they make you less effective and more reactive. I would imagine that Logan can do very well once he has found his groove in races and that will come all the sooner given Jeff's support and advice.
On the power/speed comparison, you forgot to mention the 20-30mph wind difference.
Also Jeff races P12 but this was a 4/5 so nowhere near as much organisation to drive the speed.
“Jeff, what motor was in your bike?”
That’s called L39ion, driving on the front.
@@Latipsify Exactly avg. speed is by definition of the group and not the single rider if he does not get dropped.
Trees look pretty still for a 20-30mph crosswind
Those steel gates lining the course were freaking me out.
I was racing on this course once, and a guy on a solo break just put his head down and missed the turn (yes, it’s an oval, but if you don’t steer you will go off course), and crashed directly into one of those steel gates, flipping off his bike and over it. His race was over.
I'm considering entering my first crit next month. Can't wait!
I'm still waiting for mine too!
Me too dude, fixed gear crit for me! Bought my race bike a couple months ago, I’m ready tooo smaaaash
CHASE YOUR DREAMS
Just raced my first crit last week. Small field of 22 @Herbalife Crit series. Made the break after a few laps but couldn't hold on. Ended up TT the rest of the race since the gap was too big to drop back. Ended up with 6th.
Wow, with 2 weekly sanctioned races next door and Jeff as a coach, I think we're going to see Logan rapidly progress. Exciting stuff, keep up the hard work!
1st crit race tomorrow let’s gooooo bebeeee
Good luck!!
@@chris8915 thanks!
how did it go?
@@rolandfrerichs5625 crits are amazing! I rolled through with no clue the race was over but had gone solo for a lap and got a prime. I did a second race that day and got 3rd out of a 4 man break with my teammate but kinda got screwed by the lapped riders. I love bikes!
@@liam2134 That's impressive!
16th out of 42, thats a great start.
Seing that dark line in the middle of the tyre, a good sign of a fresh tyre. Preparation on point. 🔥🔥 good job Logan
Possibly the first time the bike's been outside
Started racing for the first time this season doing my local weekly crits, HUGE thanks to y'all for showing the progression that encourages so many others. So far 2nd and 3rd... Need to watch some more videos clearly for 1st!
well done Logan! I noticed that after the first lap you purposefully went to the sheltered side on each crosswind section. Very smart for your first race!
There are a few weekly crits in DFW now. Tuesday Night in Richardson, Wednesdays in Fort Worth, Thursday at the State Fair in Dallas and Sunday Morning in Murphy! All great opportunities to gain experience!
found this episode super relatable to my first crit from just a few days ago. was feeling a bit disheartened after getting dropped in both of my races but I'm pumped to do some more racing soon and only get better.
would've been nice to hear a little more about the nuances of racing that logan picked up during his first crit
The answer is none lol. You just survive.
There are a lot of videos on TH-cam of people talking about their first crit. I think it's common for the half the field to be dropped.
If you are interested, you can check out channel of Claudio. Just search Claudio cycling.
@@xumit i would highly advise NOT watching him
@@mitchellsteindler lmao
We've all been waiting for this, GO LOGAN!!!
More of these videos please!!! I miss this type of videos.
I’d argue a 1.11 variability index is an AMAZING feat for any rider in a bike race, let alone someone brand new to the sport doing his first! I just looked back at my TrainerRoad VI from my last 4 road races this year - they’re all between 1.25 and 1.5. Maybe that means I’m being “inefficient” but I’d venture that higher VI just means I’m doing a ton of coasting. With higher speeds in flat races like Chowchilla, etc., you’re forced to put down a bit more steady power, even when sitting in as part of a pack. In any case... great work, Logan!!!
Really glad to see this episode posted... thought something had gone wrong because I hadn’t seen anything for a while
the tightness of the pack in Jeff's P1/2 races is a lot more dense than Logan's cat4/5 pack, just something i noticed
Its the nature of the cats. Watch the chowchilla videos of the lower categories for comparison. Completely random routes through the chicanes.
@@biedawo yeah there's no defined line. it's scary af through the corners . crashes even happen in a big pack on a straight....
Well done Logan. 👏. What a great journey to follow. Thanks both of you!
As an enthusiastic viewer I have to say, respect that was really good Logan!
I've never competed in a race, nothing is possible here in Germany because of Corona, and it will be a long time before my first RTF (german competitive amateur cycling tour) is possible.
I overdid it in the winter and am still recovering from overtraining and it drags like chewing gum, I will now spend weeks in zone 1 before I can train properly again. My specialty is lots of power over a long period of time and stay a long time in thr drops. I can sprint too, but it's anything but explosive, Logan can do that much better here.
Nice work Logan! Perfect timing for this episode, as I just signed up for my first crit on May 4. Pretty nervous here for my first race ever after a year of no group rides, only trainer & solo rides, and I have no other teammates in the field. So helpful to see this and hear Jeff's advice! Look forward to hearing about the next crit :)
One thing to consider in my opinion is - its not just Logans 'fault' but the other riders are also not that experienced as your P/1/2 mates. So the overall ride is much more efficient and also faster. Really good ride Logan, liked it
Man, who knew Edward Snowden would become a cyclist and youtuber?
Great 1st race Logan. Excellent analysis and comments Jeff.
I’m so excited for this video!!
Jeff, great content and really loving this series. I've only ever done Zwift races, don't even have a road bike actually, and your channel makes me want to do Crits. Keep me in mind if you do this again later on 😉 Oh, and great work, Logan - really inspiring!
Thanks for all the videos. I am looking forward to using this advice for my first Cat 5 crit this year!
I was in this race. I've got a video of it on my channel as well. The wind was brutal! Hope to see Logan out at this race and Fair Park on Thursdays, and in Murphy on Sundays! This race is the Tuesday Night Crit in Richardson, TX by the way.
Congrats on the win in the 4/5 the other night!
@@FlyingEighth Thank you!
Yeah after we finished recording I realized we were saying Rockwall the whole time 😅
@@loganmcpherson9047 was glad to see you out there Logan! I'm a big fan of Norcal. It's awesome you get to work with Jeff and have your progress documented.
@@tccycling you should send Jeff the video of your win on Sunday. The wind this race was brutal I was there too.
Great video, love this series. It’s very informative and motivating. I’m hoping to build fitness and race in the future
where can I find one of the pray for crits shirts???
Do you think experience and skill of the groups factors into VI? Something like field flow factor?
Good point.
Yesterday in my 2nd road race of the year I had a normalised power of 281W while having an average power of 228W for 1h 20min. My last FTP test gave me 272W a few months ago so my training has really paid off!
Great race man! Thanks for sharing
This race is not in Rockwall, TX. It’s in Richardson, TX the first suburb north of Dallas. At Breckenridge Park, promoted by TurboVelo.
My first crit tomorrow send me your good vibes with low variability index
Fantastic work Logan with a very credible result, you can't teach experience, all in good time buddy!
Nice job coming in 16 of 42. Solid effort. Two weekly races to choose from? I'm jealous! Also, getting dropped like a sack of rocks is basically a rite of passage for new racers. :)
Great job to Logan. Love this break down video. Curious, what app is proving that informational overlay on the video? I’d love to start using it
jeff i need that shirt
where did you get it...
The shirts is from Road Crew Coffee & Cycles in St. Louis my-site-107697-101799.square.site/product/prayforcrits-t-shirt/108?cs=true&cst=custom
@@patrickwoodling8752 holy crap dude thank you so much
Well done Logan, I was surprised at 122 PPM at the start I would have been 160 , great first race.
If you can find a smooth rider (probably one of the top finishers) and stay on his wheel it will help. I hope you had fun.
Lets hope you have a less windy race next.
good advice from Jeff, as usual.
Hate seeing people riding one handed for no apparent reason.
Yooo jeff where did you buy your shirt its lit i want one
Amazing content Jeff .....Logan fantastic effort dude! I got dropped on the first lap of my first race! Major respect to you!
I am literally about to do my first race on this exact course in 8 hours. Luckily not as windy as that day
Last crit VI was 1.4 - Garmin suggested 66 hours recovery. It can leave you pretty wrecked.
Is that a specialized ALLEZ 1:08
Peter Parker and Tony Stark are back! Excellent job in that race! :-) *double thumbs up*
Nice work, Logan!
You guys remember the original power rangers? Jeff is literally Billy the blue ranger.
Yes!
I’m doing my first race this Wednesday and hope I can place as well as Logan did kudos Logan!
5:04 #339 I have never seen anyone swinging their bike so wildly while pedaling (and i don't mean on the roll axis, i mean tracking), whats up with that?
Shout Out Louisiana Tech!
3 races around the same course, my VI was as follows: M35+ 1/2/3 = 1.06, cat 3 = 1.13, M35+ 3/4 = 1.14. Admittedly I was more active in the lower category races, but I still think it's unfair to compare VI between a P12 race and the uncontrolled entropy that is a cat 4/5 race.
3:15 that F12 sheeeeesh
Good job Logan! See you Tuesday
Im in Dallas and wanting to try out my first crit. I know of the KRG series, whats the one on Rockwall that he's doing?
That was Richardson not Rockwall. That’s my bad. But I’ll be at the KRG ones every week now!
Dallas TX!!! I did my first race on that course in 2017. Got the footage if you want it with overlays. Except I got dropped.
Go Tech Bulldogs!
im always amazed to see the amount of crazy expensive bikes people are racing in these videos.
Trying to use the Stages discount, but doesnt work. did it expire? Keep it up. Logan is doing GREAT, so inspirational! (y)
Yoooo does Logan go to Tech or did he graduate from there? I'm just down the road from LA Tech........
Graduated in 2017 from Tech!
@@loganmcpherson9047 Small world. Wouldn't have ever expected to see NELA on this channel.
Too bad. Would have loved a group ride.
Well done!
Must be really nice to have races😭. Wish I could be hammering it out in the United States right now. My country on a standstill with regards to racing. Pandemic woes
Here we go
Normalized power is weighting the 30s moving average to the power of 4.
Seems like it could be misleading for crits, since really short accellerations get filtered out, and more suited for TTs.
Leaving aside the wind conditions, I'm sure a good portion of that 28.9mph comes from the wayyy faster field. I still think Jeff is right about VI, but it's probably a bit more nuanced than we all think.
Yes I was in a faster field but I used even less power than logan's slower field.
@@NorCalCycling I guess I'm just imagining that if you removed the pack as a factor from the two 5 lap samples, the speed differential might not be quite as high.
Don't mean to undermine the very salient point, just thought that there might be some other, less apparent factors contributing to the difference.
@@TheDionysiac ' VI ' - what does that mean ? position?
@@shinsegi8422 - Variability Index. My bad, should've known that would be easily mixed up with the Roman numeral.
@@TheDionysiac I figured it out after reading a few more comments lol
Great job Logan! I know plenty of guys who are in great shape, been riding for years, enter their first race and do worse than you did. Build on this experience and it'll benefit you in the next race. Jeff didn't get where he is in one race and neither will you. Stick with it and good luck!
driveway race series Austin Texas... tell Logan. I’ll be there!🚴💨💨🔥
pray for crits tshirt is lit
What's it called the camera and the app thing do see what kind of watts yours during a ride. It's pretty cool
Garmin Virb Edit
Congrats on the first race Logan.
Ayee I’m in that race
amazing content!
How do you keep your power more consistent, but the guy you're drafting (well, the whole pack) have high variability? If you don't put out those 600 watts, you don't keep up with the pack and you get dropped. If you don't coast, you run into the back of someone. Thanks for the great content!
You try to use the draft to move up, so instead of coasting into the back of someone, you drift up pack at an even power. But it takes a bit of skill, so must be learned.
Hey! LA Tech. Cool.
3rd.. this is exactly what I have been waiting for.
Looking at the time at which Logan was dropped it looks like he could practice/use the drops or aero hoods a bit more. I don't think the speed on the crosswind or the following tailwind section really matched the power output
How does someone train for races? Long rides or fast bursts??
On the VI topic, I'm sure Logan could do better but you can't ignore the field he is racing with. It's probably hard to keep that number down when the field is surging in a similar fashion all race long. The more skilled the field becomes, the easier it is to keep that vi number in check.
Would have been better content if Jeff didn't talk for the Variability index for 30 minutes .. dude Jeff. it's Cat 5 race., of course, it's not as smooth as a P 1-2 race. Jeff spent the whole video saying that Cat 5 races surge a lot relative to Cat 1s, great insight.
Not trying to sound as a smart ass, I started racing in the velodromo not to long ago and I see Logan doing the same I did at the beginning which is not properly follow the wheel in my case was scary to me be right back the wheel of another rider, what if he falls I will fall with him so I always was out on the wind. I think probably Logan is doing the same and he could improve that
Miss the down to earth approach of these earlier videos. How's Logan doing? Hope he's still riding
Where can I cop one of those shirts?
Those steel railings will be some hell if you crash into them
Nice job Logan!
204 FTP to 287 NP in what... 5 months?
that 287 W NP is over 8 minutes, which is why he got dropped later.
Got dropped 2 years in a row, so kudos to you, Logan!
Very strong wind could account for his lower speed to power as well though.
I love that he called him Joe and not Jeff 😂
I need that shirt
Haha there’s so many unaero jerseys in that 4/5 race 😂😂😂. Bodes well for my first race in 2 weeks, hoping to get a W, either one of my teammates or I
Logan needs to join BoltRaceTeam on Zwift!
Couldn't Logan's slower first 5 laps be due to the wind as well or potentially the differences of the drifts you two were getting during the 5 laps?
Jeff, how much is variability affected by the riders you are following?
Was that a Pinarello f12, on deep carbon wheels, racing a crit??? 😅
A Race bike used for racing. What's the issue?
@@imperialspy3457 in a cat5 field , very unsettling tbh lol
Legoooo!!!! 💪🏾💪🏾
Variability is really complicated (30 second smoothing, watts to 4th power, average over time, take square root twice, divide by average power).
I like to mentally think instead of the simpler "critical power model", which says energy up to my critical power (close to FTP,) is aerobic, and I can sustain that for a long time. Any power I do above critical power comes from my anaerobic work capacity (power over time = work). So if my CP = 250 W, and I go 350 W, then 100 W comes from my anaerobic work capacity, which is on average around 90 seconds times FTP (fully rested and carb'ed) so that would be around 22.5 kJ. So +100W for 10 seconds = 1 kJ. That would reduce AWC to 21.5 kJ. Thinking of it this way, every time I go over threshold is less energy in the battery, and when the battery hits zero, I'm done. I feel this is more intuitive for during efforts, making it a strategic choice when to use my anaerobic work capacity (obviously reality is more complex). The goal isn't constant power, but to spend that anaerobic work capacity where it helps me the most.
Man, I hope someone doesn't have to bail out to the right hand side. Those are railing things are scary close.
Logan seemed very comfortable in the group, TBH
What is the best site to find Cat 5 races in your area? (I live in SF/Bay Area.)
Ncnca.org