Advice on training for police officers, Judo vs Wrestling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- In this clip coach Zahabi talks about training for police officers. What are the best ways to keep in shape and what martial arts could be effective for cops on duty. He also talks about judo and wrestling and how well they match up against each other.
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Waiting on some nogi judo tutorials from you, you promised to do one on harai goshi long ago
Agreed, definitely want to see some Judo love.
I’m a police officer and BJJ purple belt. BJJ has helped me tremendously on the job.
That's dope. I went to a BJJ gym where a police officer trained and my friend asked if he ever used it on the field. He replied, "No, I mostly take out my weapon" lol
Chandasouk that makes sense then why there’s so many police shootings
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Red Raider BJJ
how?
where i train most of the old folk are either police/militairy or surfers or both lol
Switch to catch wrestling bro it is way better when we go hands on
The IJF fucked the self defense aspect of judo a great deal. I think the judokas you mentioned are the new generation of judokas that train under the new IJF rules where leg attacks are not allowed and there is more emphasis on the Gi grip. I've seen some judo competitions prior to 2009 and the intensity, speed, aggressiveness of the old school judokas is amazing and almost unseen in the new generation.
Amen to that! pre 2009 judo was at it's peak
"With freestyle wrestling, I can Khabib him."
Say no more! XD
Nasri folkstyle>freestyle for mma
Tre' Roney you are right...and catch wrestling is also great for mma
@@michaelmyers9817 noob khabib 3 times freestyle wrestling dagestan champion and sambo 4 times word champion
Look on TH-cam khabib prefers judo over wrestling
That’s like saying with Judo I could Fedor him.
I’m a lifelong Judoka, and immensely benefited from training Freestyle Wrestling for a year and a half. Wrestlers are phenomenal at imposing their will on you.
Well, as a judoka you don't have to wait untill your opponent gets into a bad position. You can provoke by doing foot throws which I kinda what every judoka does.
You hit the nail on the head. The hole in the Judo game is that there is no game plan on how to close the distance and secure a grip if the opponent isn't willing to engage in grappling. We are used to fight for grips, but only against opponents who are also trying to secure their own grips.
On the plus side, Judo throws are very energy efficient, they don't have the same cost as shooting for takedown, you don't run out of gas going for judo throws the way you do when you try for a double leg and get sprawled on. Wrestlers often need a strength/athletic/conditioning edge and run into trouble against heavier/stronger opponents. This is much less the case for judoka.
In such cases, Judoka has to look for the clinch. Attack in the clinch.
@@marcyeo8320 if you are in chlinch and you are judoka no problem for you at all, thats what we do
But some say it takes longer to learn judo than wrestling.
@@TheOnlyOneStanding8079 Judo black belt who wrestled in college here. There is a far steeper learning curve in Judo than in wrestling because Judo is much more technical with positioning and throw techniques.
There are 68 recognized throws in Judo. Far more than takedowns in wrestling, and they all require the knowledge for a perfect setup, and for a suitable defense.
To achieve your black belt an instructor calls for a Tomoe-nage? A Sumi-gaeshi? An Ura-nage? You must be able to execute all 68 throws/sweeps by heart against a resisting opponent who knows what you are trying to do, and is trained to stop it.
Judo helped my freestyle wrestling a ton, and now the ground work (newaza) is helping my BJJ (currently a purple belt).
Also, do not believe what people say about Judo being less effective without a gi. As someone who has competed in and teaches no gi Judo classes, the positioning, traps and holds to set up the throws really are quite simple and just need to be drilled.
@@carsondwayne finally! Someone that knows their shit, I wanted to say the exact same thing. Don’t get me wrong, cross training is awesome. But I hate it when people misunderstand judo. My kids cross train in all three, but judo is my love
Re. "Judo, you've got to wait for the good opportunity" (3.03), you are supposed to be 'explosive' in judo, and you are also supposed to actively get a grip, and then use kuzushi (off-balancing your opponent) - in other words, you have to make the opportunity (and you do that to make sure the other person does not make an opportunity first).
I am not contradicting Farhas's experience - maybe judokas are easier to block than wrestlers - but just wanted to correct the idea of judokas passively waiting for an opportunity; that is not what we are taught at all.
Judo is a more reactive art while wrestling is more proactive, nothing wrong with that. Its similar to what Mayweather does he actively provokes reaction so he can be a reactive counter puncher.
I do jiu jitsu and I want to be a police
Agreed. Anyone who thinks judo is solely a reactive or passive sport has never been to a judo tournament. Refs penalize passive behavior and coaches encourage grip fighting and preemptive attacking.
For self defense, reactive is better than proactive. You will be sued as assaulter than self defense.
I think the difference is that in Judo the goal is a specific fall (ippon) while in wrestling you have more options to score, so wrestler are striving for points every second of the match, while in Judo is more like explosive-calm-explosive-calm pattern.
The reason you can stall against Judoka is because they're not as used to no-gi. If Judo allowed leg takedowns and no-gi, I don't see how freestyle wrestling be better than it. You have a whole arsenal of forward "pressuring" throws in Judo that you just need to get used to applying no-gi: o soto gari, o uchi gari, morote gari, ko uchi gari, ko uchi makikomi
Also, Judo has a substantial submission game
Judo is absolutely ruined by the olympics. Super efficient takedowns like the morote gari aren't even allowed anymore.
@@Amrani97 Yup... That is why some people go for Freestyle Judo. Welcomestevescott channel encourage for free style Judo.
@@m5a1stuart83 thanks for the recommendation. Will check it out.
There are also koshi guruma, soto makikomi, uki goshi etc.
@@Amrani97 try to Googling [Kosen judo]
I agree with all. Although, I do believe a police officer should definitely learn the fundamentals of a good jab and cross though. To help manage the distance and set up a takedown/control hold.
Or if you're outnumbered. Smash them in the face and flee to a more advantageous position. Grappling styles are dominant for a reason but they can also backfire, like anything. Dude on a NYC subway hit his assailant with a double leg and got stabbed six times in the back. Gotta have an answer for anything
@@orangeiceice12 Sure, but you cannot out-box knife, thats what mister Zahabi was getting at.
As a former deputy Sheriff for ten years, judo not only saved two other officers, and myself. It also saved the life of the offender, who was trying to commit suicide by cop. And it was against a former two time state wrestling champion. This guy was a horse, 6'4 220 . Keeping a long story short, he had tried coming at me with a grass cycle, and almost got the state troopers gun away from him. We had him tied up across the back end of my squad car, I had his leg in a grapevine, while the two troopers each had an arm. I tried sapping him, which was useless. And he was pulling the troopers across the car like the were little kids. I told them to let him up, I then put a naked choke on him, I kept that on tell he was completely out, even though he was turning a deep shade of purple. Put the cuffs on him, (which didn't go past the Second notch,) rolled him over and pumped the blood buble to get him breathing again. Our department didn't have a policy against chokes.
Let me say this, judo is the number one system for self defense and for police work by all means. I practice judo and Brazilian jujitsu and without a shadow of a doubt judo is number one trust me.
If you don't belive me check out the Japanese police department because that's what they use and jagaro kano set the curriculum over a hundred years ago and it till applies today
Khabib disagrees here he goes ‘judo is class’... You don’t disagree with the smesh
Class = looks beautiful, amazing to do and partake in. Khabib spent his entire career wrestling and does more wrestling takedowns. His region of the world is famous for wrestling. Sambo is basically a mix of Wrestling and Judo with some mma punches
@@mrannymusNo sambo is a combination of judo and kickboxing
@@mrannymusKhabib is a MASTER at judo and wrestling both skill sets are the reason he is so successful in MMA.
@@tdreloaded
Yes it’s a combo of wrestling and judo. But the emphasis is on wrestling. A D1 wrestler with basic submission knowledge up to say a blue belt usually smokes any judo black belt level in mma.
Khabibs father just showed them how to blend everything perfectly for mma
@@mrannymus Why do say that? I’m not disagreeing just genuinely want to know more on why u think Judo is so easily countered by wrestling.
I agree with Firas for the most part, but I do think there's a place for striking fundamentals for LEOs. Grappling absolutely takes precedence of course for obvious reasons.
But if only for the defensive aspects, you need to know what it's like to have punches coming at you and what it feels like to get punched in the face. That stress inoculation you get with striking sessions is crucial, not to mention the fundamentals of head movement, parries, etc. to make sure you get close enough to work your grappling in the first place. I also think there is potentially a place for things like low kicks in a policing context or the Thai clinch in the right circumstances (though the latter means you can't effectively monitor the hands, which is a risk in an environment with weapons so pick your poison).
This is arguably as much an argument for dedicated MMA classes as anything, but meh.
Coach can you please advise me on some effective takedowns in common situations on the job as security? Especially for someone who isn't a big giant like the typical bouncer and also possibly dealing with taller and/or bigger opponents.
Backward throws with leg reaping/sweeping would be best.
Backwards throws: Ko soto gari/gake, ouchi gari, osoto gari, O soto guruma,
Forward throws: tai otoshi, harai goshi, ashi guruma
Sacrifice throws:(If you're basically about to be tackled and might as well get on the ground with them) Sumi gaeshi, tani otoshi, etc.
These are all very good throws for real life situations.
In my judo class, we learned single leg take downs, double leg take downs, grabbing the waist putting our leg in a squat position behind the opponents leg and slam them over, wtc
I think it's a great thing when judo master do not only focus on olympic judo and teach some self defense etc
@@HadrienATF Actually double/single leg takedowns, ankle pick and etc was inside the Kodokan Judo syllabus.
Freestyle wrestling is good but Folkstyle Wrestling is superior. In folkstyle you have to be very good at riding an opponent and good with putting your weight on top of him also their is alot of funky defense you could use.....Khabib is a sombo,judo champ who was trained in Folkstyle Wrestling at aka (hooking the leg,riding,wrist control) all mainly part of folk style .
I completely agree and I hope to be in a position to preach this 1 day. however I think his success comes from his reaps, sweeps, and takedowns especially off the cage. his opponents often time defends the takedown and is now worrying about the throw or back take and then he trips them.
Yep, Folkstyle is great.
Judo is like counter punching in boxing so totally different rationalle than wrestling
I enjoy the content you put out coach Zahabi and your philosophy when it comes to fighting and conditioning really resonates with me. I do have a critique about your Judo critique in this clip.
You state that one of the reasons why you favor wrestling slightly over Judo is because Judo practitioners must wait for their opponent to overextend or be in a vulnerable position before utilizing a throw/sweep. While that is partly true it is far from the entire truth since breaking the opponents balance is a fundamental technique taught in Judo. Breaking the opponents balance is practiced at the end of every class during Randori. This is not passively waiting for the opponent to make a mistake or overextend it is proactively initiating a takedown. Now you could argue that one must first initiate a balance break before implementing a judo throw but to say the judo practitioner must passively wait for the opponent to make a mistake is not accurate. That would be like saying the Brazilian jiu jitsu practitioner must wait for their opponent to come to the ground before they can implement their ground game (which is obviously not accurate either).
While waiting for the opponent to make a mistake or overextend themselves is obviously preferable since it requires less effort, to say that judo is limited in this sense is not a fair assessment. In addition, unlike most throws in Judo, many of the sweeps/reaps require little if any balance breaking as they’re successfully implemented when the opponent is in a normal stance or moving normally (not overextended or in a vulnerable position).
I understand you said that you have a slight bias for wrestling and I appreciate your honesty as always. As someone who has trained in both Judo and BJJ, I love them both and feel they really complement each other. I give this critique with all due respect, keep up the great work!
PS: After watching you on Joe Rogan‘s podcast talking about Pavel’s 50% to 70% intensity training philosophy my game has completely changed! I’m injured less, growing faster, have more energy, and I’m training 6 to 7 days a week... thank you.
Judo makes your wrestling better and wrestling makes your judo better.
The fact that Police officers aren’t required to learn Jiu Jitsu in their academy training is crazy. They need to apprehend people all the time but yet they don’t care enough about being highly trained at it? It’s preposterous to me. It should be mandatory.
Enjoyed the critiques, but a Judoka with decades of experience would snack on a freestyle wrestler. You may have an argument with a lower Dan, but not a higher one. Provoking an attack is an art unto itself. You wouldn’t be standing there for long.
Police officer here. One thing to keep in mind is how the gear (vest and belt which is a decent amount of weight) affects grappling. In my opinion it changes the grappling dynamic in two ways: 1) Your center of gravity is off. 2) Simple movements are more difficult. For example shrimping.
You are taught to not put any gear along the small of your back so you don't injure your spine when you break fall and to shrimp somewhat effectively. The only issue is departments issue out so much gear that you end up having to place it along your lower back.
I recall discussing grappling situations with a student from a local police training school. An issue he raised was controlling which side an opponent could reach him on. He was, of course, concerned about keeping his gun side hard for a bad guy to reach.
I had green belt in judo now doing freestyle wrestling.
Imagine being great at Judo and wrestling? Now imagine Khabib lol. He’s black belt in Judo
Great insight. I think police officers should also at least be aware of punching. Why? Criminals may or may not know grappling but they know how to throw a haymaker or flurry punches I'm sure. I would learn how to defend against that, which inevitably would require for you to understand basic boxing.
As a judo guy (and a bit of bjj) I agree with most of your points, although I will say that judo isn't as passive as you make it out to be. You don't just wait for the opportunity to counter, most of the time i fact you're actively trying to force the "over extension", or kuzushi as we call it, by using combinations. For example you might drive your opponent back with a couchi gari, and as he resists turn to throw him forwards with uchi mata. But I agree with your other points.
I was looking for this comment. Training with competent judokas is exhausting. You are constantly being bombarded with feints and twitches in-between attacks, and the moment you take the bait they send you skull first to the canvas. Invaluable grappling skills
It was always a doubt in my mind on Judo vs Wrestling.
Judo grip fighting is all about closing the distance, using your hands to block punches(there is much debate about kicks).
The problem for most average judoka is, indeed, being offensive completely. It's very difficult to force your opponent to get off balance when you're used to all of your opponents being offensive. However, this cam and does get remedied over time.
As someone who comes from a Judo background I 100% agree
Freestyle nah. Folkstyle. There are insane freestyle guys who have zero mat control, like Yoel. Who cares how insane your double leg is if you can't keep them down? I want that Khabib style, that Ben Askren style.
Folkstyle and Judo are the ultimate combination for grappling. Pick up some BJJ on the way.
@@rye-bread5236 Salute. I fuck with your logo my man. Very nice. I got a tattoo kinda like that. Coincidences
@@rye-bread5236 but hell yeah. Even when it comes to pure wrestling, Id rather be a Kyle Dake than a Jordan Burroughs. Super sound with fundamentals, go to score on him, even if it looks like your deep, good chance he's gonna score on you. And everything is followed up and exploited to the max.
@@orangeiceice12 Your name is literally what it's called. I just have it Ohms. It's the SI unit that measures electrical resistance. I changed majors though, not even an electrical engineer anymore lmao.
For me I want solid takedowns and shots, but control is more important than explosiveness. Hence why I like collegiate style over freestyle. Greco is awesome too I love Greco-Roman more than freestyle. But Judo is the #1 martial art I've loved and wanted to learn when I was a kid.
I gained a lot from judo. Better hips, more variety in takedowns when standing up and some submissions which were better developed through BJJ.
@@rye-bread5236That's pretty cool bro. Electricity is interesting. My thing is for a letter, got a big omega with an alpha wrapped around it. From the Bible. All my tattoos are on some Hellenistic or Judaic/Christian type shit. The TH-cam name is just a reference to that and kinda a joke on the 'alpha' and 'beta' thing. Like the Tao says, "the highest is like the lowest."
Hell yeah, though, Judo will really develop the grip fighting and quick feet, too, not to mention those hips and sense of base
Most police officers I met in Japan were Judo black belts, very efficient.
Grappling doesn't just protect you it legally covers your ass if you're a cop or military standing sentry if things escalate because you're less likely to trip over some of the hair splitting of what is and is not allowed for strikes. Put them on their face and for the love of God your knee is never, EVER supposed to go down, not on the floor and definitely not on them.
Seriously, a takedown is usually a 3/6 on a force continuum, with 1 being presence and 6 being deadly force, while strikes are a 4. In training, I was always taught to never chain my strikes and to use them to establish distance. Imagine training boxing to run into that. TaeKwonDo and karate high kicks are a 6/6; karate takedowns, though, would still just be a 3. Standing grappling is a 3, period. And most people wear clothes.
My problem with wrestling is that I actually don't want my body that flush. I want to sweep their legs out, not clinch, because I don't want them that close to my weapons and the vest changes the feeling of that kind of contact drastically. I realize I might just be biased due to my own background with it, but I much prefer sweeping the leg and pushing/pulling to clinching.
So Judoka are better at counters, tricks and grabs
Freestyle is more aggressive and has more offensive vibe to it preventing stalling.
Well hell I'll train both then I have def and offense.
If you're able to, take judo, bjj and wrestling
Judo takes too long to master. Wrestling doesn’t take years. Wrestling + boxing.
Advice was spelt wrong at the beginning bro. Great video !!
I'm a student of police college in Taiwan, and I am a black belt in Judo,I personally think that wrestling and Judo are both great for policemen.
For myself, I never train in wrestling before, but I also do wrestling throws sometime,my wrestling throws may not be as good as a wrestler, but it will be enough to take normal people down I think.
Great content of someone who knows what he is talking about. Love the video!
There are plenty of “impose your will” judo throws and sweeps.
Idaho needs more police retraining. Thank you. 🦜
Judo for winter
Wrestling for summer
(Gi and NoGi)
Wrestling works well in both
@@gustavobaptista1361 Someone says this definitely has never trained in the Gi before. The control that Judoka have you under the Gi is totally different. You can't shoot if they have grips on your cloth, and with the gi theyre easy to sprawl
Wrestling has limited finishing holds. Judo is more rounded, throws and ground game with a boat load of submissions.
I love Judo but I think for self defence you should be able to box a little too. If you can box even a little like 6months in the gym you can clinch with almost anyone who throws hands at you (if you cant knock them out). And once you clinch then you can throw!
If we are talking about martial arts for LE I think Judo is the way. Judo requires an aggressor, which is exactly what you’ll get. Besides that there’s also an underlying philosophy of judo that is beneficial on a deeper level. Obviously knowing a bit of both is the preferred way.
Judo would be good for police because there are heaps of grips to choose from with most offenders wearing street clothes. Wrestling obviously would be great too because you don’t need clothes lol.
The problem is they don't have many wrestling schools. The closest one can get to wrestling is no gi BJJ. However in the school I went to they start from a sitting position.
What does he mean by blocking judo throws?
Not as many wrestling schools compared to judo.
I have the answer....Learn and practice both!
What's the best takedown for wrestlers to use against a judoka
What kind of judo throws do you use for freestyle wrestling Coach?
Tai Otoshi, modified Harai Goshi. You should study Jason Morris because he literally specialised what you just said
Izzy Matt Kosoto gari, kouchi gari, osoto gari, ouchi gari, tai otoshi, harai goshi, hane goshi, uchimata, tsuri goshi, o goshi, koshi guruma, o guruma, te guruma, deashi harai, deashi barai, sasae tsurikomi ashi, harai tsurikomi ashi, okuriashi harai, ashi guruma, tsubame gaeshi.
Kabib is judoca
Very true
I'm not sure why you'd say wrestling or judo, both have techniques that are OPTIONS. If he does X, you do Y. When I do grappling or MMA, I use techniques from both (although if we're honest, in MMA there are a lot of double and single legs).
dannyobomo
Dannyobomo
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Gracie Jiu jitsu is just catch wrestling in a gi.Helio stole most of the holds and submission's from old catch wrestling books and just relabled all the moves.2 on one wristlocks lock (Kimura),Sleeper Hold (Mata Leon),Figure 4 (Triangle)....
....go look at old catch wrestling books and you'll find out that the gracie's created nothing and stole all the moves from catch wrestling.
I would say bjj is a mix of kosen judo and catch wrestling with emphasis on fighting from back
@@thatsjustmyopinionhowabout122 I believe it was Mitsuyo Maeda
@@dmfaccount1272 no their judo instructors were catch wrestlers the whole thing is a scam.
@@gyrox0031 he was tough by lou thez a catch wrestlers just like the rest of the gracie family.
@@dmfaccount1272 believe whatever you want to believe.
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SAYA
If you are a Police Officer, Krav Maga from a legitimate instructor. True Krav has grabbing and grappling as well as other Martial Arts philosophies incorporated while wearing a duty belt .
Savina
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Swollen
I've trained in Judo and cross trained in Catch Wrestling. I'm far more a defensive wrestler than offensive; which is excellent for stuffing a take down. In a clinch, my Judo kicks in with different offensive attacks. In mat work once again Judo . From Catch I've learned excellent defensive escapes along with brutal submissions.
Whats more effective judo or Catch?
@@12shah74
If you're training for MMA I would do Wrestling. You will learn faster and be more effective. Judo although effective; will take more time.
@@1_Bad_Z thanks. I am a boxer and want to train for self defense and want to train a grappling art
@@12shah74 if you are a Boxer; definitely Wrestling.
oss from a police officer from argentina!!!coach firaz
Can you talk on the folk style wrestling or greco wrestling and talk about how those backgrounds may or may not be effective.
marcel paba I’m a deputy in south ga with a jiu jitsu background originally but I’ve switched to Greco Roman and I can tell you it’s highly effective for going hands on with someone
Grecco focuses on controlling the clinch, and the many ways of "Lifting" which is fundamental to most throwing techniques. I have also found those concepts applicable to working from guard in setting up sweeps. Winning the grip fight in no gi, and getting hips positioned under you opponent. No gi guard play is very much like horizontal Grecco. Grecco is very much like no gi judo, though you can't use your legs like in many judo throws. Grecco will illustrate the importance of hip position in throwing. If I triangle step in properly, O goshi, harai, hane, uke goshi, also ippon seionagi and morote are variations of the same hip penetration.
@@Dpackie I guess i'm just waiting for the introduction of the really advanced takedowns and reversals into mma. like three throws and clinch are obvious but super ducks and like other techniques from the top and bottom positions are rare. same with the folk style top position holds and bottom position escapes that you don't see in freestyle
great "Aadvice"
It's all irrelevant depending on skill level
A high school wrestler vs a Olympic judoka I give it to the judoka
But A college wrestler vs a judoka training for a year I give the win to the wrestler
So it's important to train both to have an advantage
Great insight again from coach Zahabi. couple of years ago I somehow started thinking a lot about judo, it’s throws and effectiveness or problems. My conclusion at the end was that the takedowns are legitimate options. However that throws in most of the times seem to be happening because both fighters have the goal to throw. The reason for that I would say is clearly the competition rules set and points system of sports judo which was developed, I think in the mid 1950s. I believe that it would be very very hard to actually throw someone who does not try to throw but knows how to adjust his position or connect to the opponent in order to kill the attempts or even capitalise on it. Or in less words:
- With attempting a offensive throw, I in fact open myself to variety of counter options -
Looking at the matter in a very simplistic way, one could argue that truly defensive techniques are unlikely to be top offensive options, too.
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Giving cops more ways to be abusive!! Nice job!
Cops with jujitsu training are less abusive than cops that are lazy and don’t train.
Cops that don’t train in a martial art, that just lift weights and do steroids are the problem.
I train with a lot of cops and they never lose control of themselves and they go home alive. The people they deal with go home alive as well
***edited twice because of misspelled words***
@@johnnykage3903 I'm with you, on spelling and training.
@@johnnykage3903 I dont believe that cops only see future murder when they go home!!!!!!!
police is one place where aikido becomes much more useful. very good skills about managing weapons in close distance, the pins they use are fairly effective and safe and legal. wouldn't use it as only kind of training, you need well rounded training, but I know lots of career police do aikido. for a good reason.
Better do wrestling or BJJ
Aïkido for Police Officers... yeah, except if they want to stay alive